From Brigham Young University’s Maxwell Institute, this is the Maxwell Institute Podcast: Faith Illuminating Scholarship. Rosalynde Welch: I’m Rosalynde Welch, host of the podcast. Today I have for you a conversation with Dr. Kristian Heal, my colleague at the Institute. This is the first in a series of episodes introducing the four research initiatives that organize the Maxwell Institute’s work: the Bible, the Book of Mormon, Interfaith Understanding, and Latter-day Discipleship. We’ll kick this mini-series off today by discussing Latter-day Saint study of the Bible and its relationship to the academic discipline of biblical studies. Reading scripture is one of the fundamental spiritual practices of Latter-day Saints. For many of us, opening our leather-bound quadruple combination, or the scripture app on our phone or tablet, feels as simple as breathing. Kristian helps me understand how scholarship on the Bible can enrich our community’s understanding of this ancient book. It is a book that connects us to other faith traditions across the globe. We talk about what biblical studies is and is not. We talk about its gifts and its challenges for believing readers of the Bible. We also talk about what Latter-day Saint scholars, with our understanding of the Book of Mormon and modern scripture, can add to the discussion. These are the kinds of questions we hope to advance in coming years with the Institute’s Bible Initiative. During our discussion, Kristian introduced me to a new metaphor for deep study of the scriptures: the pilgrimage. Just as a pilgrim is spiritually transformed by the effort of her journey, a reader of scripture who is willing to undertake responsible, academically informed deep study can also expect transformation. Like any pilgrimage, this project is not without its risks. But just as a temple pilgrimage prepares the pilgrim to enter the presence of God, deep and informed reading of scripture prepares us for an encounter with divine presence. Whether you're planning to dive deep into the Old Testament in 2026, or simply curious about how academic scholarship relates to devotional practice, this conversation offers a thoughtful roadmap for the journey. Rosalynde Welch: Kristian Heal, welcome back to the Maxwell Institute Podcast. Kristian Heal: It’s good to be back. It’s nice to be in front of a microphone again. Welch: Longtime listeners will remember that you were once a regular voice on the podcast. You have many fans who love the sound of your voice and your accent. We’re delighted to have you back today to talk about studying the Bible as Latter-day Saints. To start our conversation, let me share a scenario. On January 1st, 2026, millions of Latter-day Saints around the world are going to sit down. They will open their Bibles. They will begin studying the Old Testament. That seems like a simple scene. It’s something I’ve done many times in my life. But there’s a lot going on under the surface of that simple scene of a believer sitting and studying the Bible. Talk to me about what’s going on when someone who believes in the authority of the Bible sits down, opens it, and reads to learn from it. Heal: That’s a really great question, and a great way to frame our discussion. This is where the rubber meets the road. We are actually sitting down, opening our scriptures, and seeking something. The fact that I even call it “our scriptures” is important. We are seeking God. For me, calling a book “scripture” is an acknowledgement that God is at work. He is at work in the text itself, in the stories and teachings we read. And He is at work in our lives as we read. When I open a book as scripture, I am coming with the expectation that God can meet me there. Welch: Let’s say I sit down with the Bible, but I come to it not to have a spiritual or devotional experience. Instead, I want to understand something about ancient Near Eastern cultures. I would be reading the same text. I might be reading Genesis. But in that case I wouldn’t be reading it as scripture in the way that you’re describing. Is that what you’re getting at? Heal: Yes, at least in part. When we come to our scriptures to read them as scripture, we are seeking an encounter with God. We are seeking revelation. Church leaders, including President Oaks, have talked about how reading scripture can become a way to encounter God. There is an emotional and spiritual element to this. We’re not always coming primarily to analyze the text. Sometimes we are simply coming to be with God through the text. At the same time, I think scripture is the kind of text that also rewards careful study. Douglas Bush once wrote about Milton that, to really experience the beauty of “Paradise Lost,” you have to actually study it. A casual read is not enough. There are things you need to know about the text in order to receive the fullness of what it offers. I think scripture is similar. You can have a genuine encounter with God by simply picking up the scriptures and reading. But the scriptures also reward diligence, attention, and even academic study. The question is how to balance those two modes of reading. There is real value when scholars simply read devotionally in a prayerful, open-hearted way. And there is real value when everyday Latter-day Saints open the Old Testament and dig in, trying to understand what is going on so that they can get more out of their devotional reading. Welch: So to approach the Bible as scripture doesn’t rule out seeking deeper understanding of the text itself. It may even require it. If we’re trying to understand what the scripture says, and to learn something about God, we may need to seek out academic materials that help us understand the text better. Those tools can help us have a richer revelatory experience. Heal: Yes, I think so. In my own research, I work on the reception history of the Old Testament. I look at how early Jews and Christians read the Old Testament. I ask what they got out of it. Sometimes reading “over the shoulder” of someone else shows us things we wouldn’t see on our own. The same thing happens when we read the Old Testament through the eyes of modern scholars. Imagine you are someone who has a daily scripture practice. You read for a few minutes each day. In that reading, you feel God come into your life. Your day goes better. Your mind feels clearer. You feel connected to God. Now you decide, “This year I’m going to take on the Old Testament.” You might keep your ten minutes a day. But you might also devote a couple of hours a week to digging in more deeply. The Old Testament will reward that effort. But where do you start? What will that study do for you? Will it change the way you read the book? You have to be willing to think about scripture in a broader sense if you want to make that shift. When scripture becomes a text that you study, it becomes an object of analysis. You move into a different world. I actually find that thrilling, and many people do. Readers of the Maxwell Institute’s Brief Theological Introductions to the Book of Mormon, people who loved Hugh Nibley, and those reading Josh Sears’s new introduction to the Old Testament—they often find that learning about scripture is intellectually exciting and spiritually enlightening. But academic study can be difficult too. For believing Bible scholars over the last two or three hundred years, scholarship has sometimes challenged long-held assumptions. That is part of the reason I am interested both in what scholars say about the Old Testament and in what fellow believers over time have said about it. I want to know how the Old Testament has nourished people as a living text, and also what academic research can show us. Welch: Let’s return to our Latter-day Saint sitting down with the Bible. We’ve touched on a few things that are happening in that simple act. First, they are there because they want to grow closer to God. They are doing that by trying to make sense of the language and the text in front of them. As they do that, there may be “silent partners” working alongside them. One partner is our church community. We have been formed in classes over the years. Even if we are new members, we inherit interpretive traditions, assumptions, and paradigms from our Latter-day Saint community. We can also seek out other silent partners. One might be academic commentaries that provide historical and literary context. Another might be other communities of believers and how they have read the same texts. You study ancient Syriac Christians, and you have said that you have learned a lot about the Bible by seeing how they understood it. So there are many layers of sense, meaning, and purpose involved. Ultimately, it comes down to what I myself draw from that encounter with scripture. At the end of my study, I am responsible for the experience I have had and the meaning I have made. In that sense, I have a kind of personal authority over the meaning I derive from scripture. For me, the point of peeling back all these layers is not to make something that should be simple and beautiful needlessly complex. It is simply to become conscious of what is already happening when I open my scriptures. That has helped me become better at doing it. Scripture study has become more meaningful, not just a box to check. You said something that really intrigued me. You said that once you sit down and open the scriptures and become conscious of these layers of sense-making, the Bible has become a text. Talk more about what you mean by “text” and what that transformation entails. Heal: For me, calling it a “text” means that it has become an object of study. It moves into the domain where all other texts exist. It is subject to interpretation. It has a historical context. You can place it alongside other texts of a similar genre. You can place it in a canon. When you pick up a study Bible, you are entering that world. You have introductions, notes, maps, and essays around the biblical text. You are in the world of analysis and close reading. That is a different kind of attention. When I read the scriptures devotionally, it often feels almost liturgical, like singing a hymn. The words have meaning, but the whole experience is one of worship. My eyes are lifted to God. When I approach the scriptures as a text, I am studying. If I want to do that with the Old Testament, I might begin with a good study Bible. As soon as I do that, I am confronted with an introduction to each book. I may see introductions to smaller sections. I see notes explaining historical context, literary features, and ancient settings. I see interpretive materials that help me understand the text. I am very interested in what is happening in these two different experiences: devotional reading and analytical reading. There is a lovely book on early modern readers that uses the images of the pilgrim and the bee as two modes of reading. When I read devotionally, I often feel like the bee. I come to the text looking for nectar. I look for a sweet insight, a moment of peace, or a sense of God’s presence. Then I move on. When I read as a pilgrim, I am seeking transformation. I am on a journey. Who I am at the beginning is different from who I am at the end. In the Catholic tradition, Lectio Divina is an example of this kind of reading. You slowly and prayerfully enter the text. You walk with it. That is how I also think about scholarship and reading the text. Say you decide to read a particular Old Testament book carefully. You gather commentaries. You read scholarship. You place it in historical and canonical context. You look at how others have read it. You come out knowing more and seeing differently. any pilgrim, you pause to reflect: “I see this text differently now. I see the world differently. I see God differently.” That is a spiritual process, even if the tools you used were academic. At the same time, as on any pilgrimage, some people on the path are just out for a walk. The depth of transformation depends on how you choose to walk. Welch: I love this image of the pilgrim. When I undertake a more intense form of scripture study, what I am after is transformation. I want my understanding of the text to grow. But ultimately, I place myself before the text and ask it to change me. You are suggesting that the rigor and work required for intensive study is part of the crucible that transforms the pilgrim. But that is not the only possible outcome. You mentioned the risk involved in treating the Bible as a text. We will learn things that are hard. We will encounter difficult characters. We will notice contradictions and tensions. We will see that the Bible is not a smooth, simple book. That can transform us in a negative way if we are not careful. It might cause us to lose confidence in the authority of the Bible. Or it might deepen and refine our understanding of that authority. So let’s talk about biblical studies. We are the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship. There are many forms of religious scholarship about the Bible, including theology and devotional reading. Often, in academic contexts, we talk about “biblical studies.” This refers to a particular style of inquiry about the Bible. One part of what we do here at the Maxwell Institute in our Bible Initiative is biblical studies. Tell us what biblical studies is as an academic discipline. Heal: Biblical studies is an important thing to understand, especially as we pick up books or buy them online. Modern biblical studies has its roots in Renaissance humanism and Enlightenment thought. It represents a different attitude toward texts. As Latter-day Saints, we are taught to read the scriptures together as a unified whole. We use scripture to interpret scripture. The Doctrine and Covenants helps us interpret Exodus. Exodus helps us interpret the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon helps us interpret the Old Testament. We read within a canonical network. In biblical studies, scholars often begin differently. They say, “This is an ancient text. We need to understand it within its own historical context.” They look at influences and parallels. They notice differences. They divide the Bible into genres and sections. They try to trace its historical growth. They identify sources and redactional layers. Biblical studies is the toolbox needed for that kind of work. It includes ancient languages, historical knowledge, and interpretive methods. It is a way of learning about the Bible as an ancient collection of texts. Welch: About ten years ago, in the Maxwell Institute journal “Studies in the Bible and Antiquity,” Jewish scholar James Kugel wrote an essay that I found very helpful. He talked about the difference between learning about the Bible and learning from the Bible. Learning about the Bible is the project of biblical studies and academic inquiry. Learning from the Bible is the project of the believer. A biblical scholar does not need to be a believer. You can be a non-believing scholar who is simply interested in these ancient texts. You might study them as you would study “Beowulf” or another ancient work. A non-believing scholar can do top-level academic work. They can help us understand how and when biblical texts were written. They can show how texts were edited and arranged. Believers can benefit from that. But believers also want to learn from the Bible. We believe the Bible can teach us and transform us. So, for a believer, we need to take into account learning about the Bible, so that we can better learn from the Bible. A strictly non-believing scholar might learn all about the Bible, but not learn from it in a transformative way. In that sense, the believer brings a wider range of ways of knowing to the Bible. She wants to learn about it and from it. Heal: Yes, I agree. But this project is trickier than we might wish. We can experience cognitive dissonance. What we learn about the Bible and what we are learning from the Bible can feel different. What we learn about the Bible can change what we take from it. We shouldn’t downplay that tension. But we also shouldn’t exaggerate it. In “How to Read the Bible,” James Kugel goes through the Hebrew Bible and compares the results of modern biblical scholarship with traditional Jewish readings. He is a believing, practicing Jew. He ends the book with a somewhat pessimistic conclusion. He feels that modern biblical scholarship does not always serve the believing reader well. Other believing Jewish scholars see things differently. So I think each reader has to find their own level. We ask: What is serving me? What is building my faith? What is enlarging my understanding? Welch: I think Kugel’s warning is well taken. We don’t want to understate the challenges of taking an academically informed view of the Bible. We also don’t want to overstate them. In some ways, I think he may overstate the threat. And perhaps, in his community, the stakes are especially high. Historically, one of the first big projects of modern biblical studies was to question Moses’s authorship of the Pentateuch, the first five books of the Bible. Traditionally, these were understood as written by Moses on Sinai. But 19th-century biblical scholars began to argue that these books are actually made up of different kinds of texts. They saw different points of view. They argued that the books were later edited and arranged, perhaps based on earlier sources, but shaped for the needs of the community at a later time. That is deeply challenging for Jewish readers who hold to a simple view of Mosaic authorship. And it is challenging for many Christian readers too. For Latter-day Saints, I would argue, we may have an advantage. The Book of Mormon itself gives us an account of how scripture comes to be. It describes earlier sources. It describes editors and redactors. It shows how later writers weave in their own commentary and point of view. In the Book of Mormon, the end product is scripture, not a single, untouched original. Do you think I am right about that? Or am I too optimistic about what the Book of Mormon can offer us as we approach the academic study of the Bible? Heal: I think you’re right that we have some advantages. The Book of Mormon gives us a narrative in which scripture is edited, compiled, and commented on. We are not surprised by the idea of a later editor or a redactional process. We also have a kind of “safety clause” in the Articles of Faith. We say that we believe the Bible to be the word of God “as far as it is translated correctly.” That phrase has often been extended in Latter-day Saint discourse to include the idea that things have been lost or changed over time. Sometimes we overuse that idea. But it does give us conceptual space to acknowledge complexity in the biblical text. So yes, I think there are helpful resources in Latter-day Saint scripture and theology that can allow us to approach the Old Testament with more confidence. We may not feel quite as threatened as someone whose entire theology rests on a very strict view of the Bible’s formation. Welch: So there is at least the possibility that Latter-day Saints can contribute something fresh to the wider Christian effort to understand the Bible. That has not fully happened yet. Partly this is because we are a young tradition. We are just getting started, especially when compared to Catholics, Jews, and Protestants. I don’t want to undersell the contributions of Latter-day Saint biblical scholars. Some are our colleagues here at BYU. Others are at universities around the country. But I think it is fair to say that, so far, most Latter-day Saint biblical scholars are not primarily approaching biblical studies as distinctly Latter-day Saint in their methodology. They are excellent practitioners within the standard paradigms of biblical studies. Do you think that’s fair, or am I selling them short? Heal: This raises wonderful questions for us as Latter-day Saints and for the small but growing, and very impressive, community of Latter-day Saint biblical scholars. A colleague recently observed that we now have, both on BYU campus and elsewhere, the largest group of well-trained Old Testament and New Testament scholars that we have ever had in the Church. It is an abundance of riches. So what are these scholars doing? And does being a Latter-day Saint reader of the Old Testament give you some unique advantages? I think it can. For several years, my co-editors and I at “Studies in the Bible and Antiquity” wrestled with this. Why do Latter-day Saints need a journal of biblical studies? If we are doing “proper” biblical studies, there are already many established journals. If we are doing Latter-day Saint theology—reading the Bible within our restored canon—people might say, “That’s not biblical studies. That’s something else.” We felt stuck in that mindset for a while. What has helped us move forward is the realization that Latter-day Saint scholars can do innovative work in biblical studies that emerges from Latter-day Saint questions. A good example is the book on Solomon’s Temple by David Seely and William Hamblin, published by Thames & Hudson. It is a serious academic book. But the questions they bring to the temple partly arise from Latter-day Saint temple interest and experience. Another example, though not strictly biblical studies, is Mark Ellison’s work on the early Christian family. His work is seen as groundbreaking in early Christian and patristic studies. But he is taking something deeply important in our own tradition—family—and turning that into a lens for his research. So one contribution we can make is to let our Latter-day Saint theological interests guide the questions we ask. We then use standard methods and tools of biblical studies to pursue those questions. This work can be, and is being, published in mainstream academic venues. Another contribution is to study our own tradition’s reading of the Bible as part of reception history. What does it mean to read the Old Testament as a Latter-day Saint? How do Latter-day Saints read Isaiah, Genesis, and the Psalms? Joe Spencer’s book “A Word in Season” is an excellent example. Not only is it a study of the Book of Mormon; it is also a study of how the Book of Mormon reads Isaiah. That is Latter-day Saint reception of the Bible. We have been reading the Bible as Latter-day Saints for a long time. Scholars like David Seely, Kent Jackson, and others have created integrated, canon-based readings. Josh Sears’s new Old Testament introduction for Deseret Book is another example. It is a thoroughly Latter-day Saint view of the Old Testament. It integrates modern revelation and prophetic teaching with the Bible. What we have only just begun to do is analyze that reading. We are just starting to describe how we read, and to place that within the broader story of how different communities have received the Bible. Welch: That’s the same process we started with. We peeled back the layers of what is happening when a Latter-day Saint believer opens the Bible. We can do the same with a Latter-day Saint scholar opening the Bible. Again, not to complicate things just for fun, but because we trust, as Elder Maxwell taught, that for a disciple-scholar, academic study can be a form of worship. We believe that discovering truth is part of the glory of God. So we are willing to take the risk you talked about. As we deepen and transform our understanding on this pilgrimage, we will encounter hard things. We will have to work through them. But the prophetic promises are there. By study and by faith we can come to know God. That is another distinctive thing we bring. We believe that when we engage our minds and seek truth in all its forms, all truth will eventually converge. It will help us better understand who God is, the world He has created, and the covenant by which He is bringing His purposes to pass. Heal: Amen. That brings it all together beautifully. Welch: As we wrap up, Kristian, I wonder if you’d share a few thoughts for non-experts who want to start a pilgrimage through the Old Testament. How can they benefit from academic scholarship on the Bible? And how can they access that scholarship? Heal: That’s a very practical and important question. The first step is to get a good study Bible. Josh Sears has written a helpful article on study Bibles that people can look up. A good study Bible gives you a modern translation that takes advantage of advances in our understanding of biblical languages and manuscripts. It also provides notes and introductions that give historical and literary context. I like the Oxford Study Bible. I also like the Jewish Study Bible, especially for the Old Testament. It lets us read with the help of Jewish scholarship. Latter-day Saints are often willing to learn truth wherever we can find it. We are not limited to our own in-house materials. The next step might be accessible commentaries. On the New Testament side, N. T. Wright is very popular with general readers. On the Old Testament side, a similar figure is John Goldingay. Goldingay’s “Bible for Everyone” series offers short commentaries on biblical books. These combine solid scholarship with thoughtful Christian reflection. They are a great entry point. From there, if you want to go deeper into a particular book, you can look up individual commentaries. There are websites that evaluate commentaries. They say whether a commentary is more academic, more pastoral, or more devotional. They also indicate how demanding the commentary is for the reader. A good introductory book on the Bible, like James Kugel’s “How to Read the Bible,” can also be valuable, although it is challenging. Beyond that, you are mainly limited by your time and your book budget. Welch: It’s time to start compiling our Christmas lists, then. You’ve given me two really good gifts today. First, the image of the pilgrim and the pilgrimage we undertake as we read the scriptures, and the transformation we seek through the hard work of reading. Second, John Goldingay. I wasn’t aware of his “Bible for Everyone” series. That is definitely going on my list. Thank you so much for joining us today on the Maxwell Institute Podcast. Heal: My pleasure.