Okay, this easier than explaining in Caroline fantastic.

If only our conservative leaders would learn the same lesson, let them call you a racess, let them call you a cline denial, let them call you a misogynist and islamophobe, where all their other vile insults.

If you believe in the rightness of your cause, names can never hurt you.

And now, joining rowan rat Bagdine, Rita Prima on a panahe and Caroline Snowflake mart Marcus, here we are to dissect the latest outsiders news.

Caroline, I looked, I got on GROWK and I looked up the worst insults anybody had ever called you, and it was a snowflake.

Nice, so I can attack.

That is certainly not the worst insults than as.

For Rita and I, there was more to choose from Rita.

I called Caroline worst just during breakfast.

Well you're actually do find Snowflake evincent, because I think I am the opposite.

There you go, There you go, so Snowflake worked with you work, There you go.

Now listen what a new world we live in.

The Liberal Party is run by Sheila's She lives to the left of us.

She lives to the right of us and this party, that party New South Wales, Victoria, the Federals.

Even New South Wales has two female leaders, a leader and a deputy leader.

But let's kick off with Victoria, your home state.

Last week, Jess Wilson has now replaced Brad Batton.

Yes your thoughts, Rata.

You wrote a very strong comment, as you always do.

I mean I would expect anything else, but a very strong comment in The Herald's son this week regarding the new Liberal leader in Victoria.

Well, the vig Glibs are unique in their talents for self destruction and just general idiocy, so this is nothing new.

There was a poll out showing they've actually had and this is a rare poll for them, an election winning lead.

The opposition leader was well in front of the premiers preferred and they dumped him literally within hours.

Look, I wasn't the biggest fan of Brad Batton.

I thought he had many shortcomings, but sadly I think this new leader.

May have many more.

And their ideological their policy positions, these aren't trivial things.

She was the only Victorian Liberal.

Who was on the record saying she's supporting the Voice referendum.

The only one.

There's reports of her standing up and clapping the passage of the treaty legislation after Victorians voted against the Voice.

We've now been saddled not with only a state based, permanent voice, but we've also got a treaty on top of it.

She has spoken passionately about net zero.

Now she says she's prioritizing costs over emissions, but it was only a couple of years ago in her maiden speech where it was all about net zero.

She was amongst the MPs who voted to expel more Deeming for the crime of knowing what a woman is.

So it's just policy position after policy position.

She's a Jacenter Alan light leader.

So she says she's changed her views on some of these things.

She says she will repeal the Voice and Treaty.

I just think again, being the only Liberal MP in Victoria who's on the record voting for the referendum, she's not well placed to argue against why it should be repealed.

You probably have some better candidates and they need to campaign on the Voice and Treaty.

On every other issue, whether she wants to go down.

Tax reform, crime, health, labor, can just match whatever they propose, and Labor are on solid ground when it comes to issues like hell we know that, but when it comes to voice and treaty that can win an election campaigning on that and Labor are not going to just simply follow their policies.

It is a real.

Opportunity that is being squandered right now.

I hope that changes, but on her track record the few short years she has been in Parliament, it's not great.

So that's why I wrote what I wrote.

I stand by every word.

I wrote the same thing when John Pursudo became leader because the signs were there that he was going to be weak and ineffectual.

And I hope victorians do get a clear choice of the next election.

And it's what we've been missing Rowan.

In consecutive elections we have had Labor and Labor light continuously.

And I think you're right read to.

The problem is.

It's all very well to change your positions, and that's good.

A salesman or a lawyer can do that.

An advertising person, right, I'm advertising this product now instead of that product.

But when you are in the dangers if just does become the premiere for whatever reasons, or when you're in a leadership position and things are happening at lightning speed.

You have to fall back on your instincts, and you're all And if we know that your instincts are pro treaty, bro neds, isn't it, Caroline, what do you think?

It's very difficult to it is.

She clearly doesn't appear to be a conviction politician, but she is so green in terms of being new, maybe ideologically as well.

She's so new that it's really difficult to tell.

I think someone should be allowed to change their mind.

I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt.

I don't come from Victoria like Rita does, so I don't have as much intimate knowledge of her positions.

But I have seen that she has now said that she will not allow biological males men into female prisons.

Tick she's now against the treaty.

Really, and we said, are we setting the bar so low?

Now?

An opposition living leader who says men shouldn't be in women's prisons.

I mean, if that's what pseudo having said that, though, maybe Brad, I do maybe now, maybe now after what happened with more redeeming.

Look, the fact is this the liberal Party in Victoria is trying to appeal to the demographic that Jess Wilson is in most voters.

Well, the biggest block of voters are young voters in Victoria, and the second biggest is in her age demographic.

So yes, I'm not saying she's a token female, although maybe she is.

I do think she is an impressive young woman.

I'd like to see what she does and give her a chance.

But there is also the exteriors, the age, the fact that she's female.

But obviously they're hoping are going to appeal.

To vote Caroline.

This goes to the point do you elect a leader?

Do you have a leader who's you know, people don't vote for someone because they.

Look like, no, I agree with you, But that's why people vote for.

Someone because they believe in them.

Well, then they're probabably barking up the wrong tree, because ultimately people vote, you know, when the chips are down.

People will vote for authenticity, for core beliefs, for conviction, for someone they can trust to do the right.

Thing to Alan has that either though it's kind of a case of like which one.

I think.

She's from labor socialist left faction and she governs accordingly, says I do.

I may not agree with her.

I may think her policies ure bonkers.

I believe she's part of a party that has helped destroy a once proud state.

Biggest state debt by of any state by some margin.

Every economic indicator in Victoria is going in the wrong direction compared to the rest of the country.

But she's true to her convictions.

She's from labor socialist left.

Faction, exacting and screaming to tackle youth crime, and she's finally stepping up now.

But it's taken them a long time to say that they're.

Going But again, that's a labor position.

Labor we know they are so called progressive.

They don't want to lock up people.

That is a last, absolute, last resort.

They are a soft on crime, as how I would characterize it, they would say.

But now she's saying she's tough on crime.

So would people really agree that she is being authentic or is she just trying.

To I get what you're saying there, But you're right, and that is a position that is at odds with what she's advocated in the past.

Because it wasn't too long ago in Victoria they.

Were talking about eight, raising the age of criminal responsibility, throwing fourteen year olds in jail for twenty five years, which is what now they're talking about.

But I think if someone enters politics and they go through the entire process of pre selection, get themselves elected, give maiden speeches in parliament, you're entitled to form the view that they've got some policy positions.

I don't care that she's been leader two minutes she's in parliament.

She has spoken on the record about what she believes in and how she sees the world, and that worldview is open to scrutiny.

Now she can do backflips as much as she likes, and if that is acceptable to the elector, then good luck to well.

Victoria's conducting the test.

We will know, what is it, twelve months or so to the election, Yes, next, and we will see whether this strategy of putting someone in that looks like the people you're trying to attract to vote for you works as opposed to someone with a set of policies in their past that you can relate to.

Let's talk about Kelly Sloane.

Now this is a different situation, slightly but very very similar.

During the week bang here we change leaders.

It's all very nice, it's all very civilized, cup of tea, and we change leaders in a way we go terrific stuff.

Kelly Sloane is attempting to kind of finness or nuance net zero into the background.

The New South Wales Libs did vote the party room did vote to maintain their current net zero position, but clearly have a listened to Kelly Sloane just talking a few minutes ago here at Sky to Andrew Clenell.

We have a different.

Set of circumstances in New South Wales.

We have the practical rollout compared to the Commonwealth.

We have to make sure that we have some renewables, probably sweating some of those coal assets, definitely having gases part of the mix.

And what I want to be doing working with my National's colleagues in New South.

Wales is.

Addressing the bungled rollout by labor, the train in regional communities and the increasing energy prices.

So I'll be talking later in the show about how I think Susan Lee and the Liberal leaders should be addressing the whole issue of emissions, seeing particularly at the federal level where they have said no to net zero quite rightly, but they're still stranded with this Paris agreement.

Nonsense.

But Caroline tell Us Kelly Sloane, there is that convincing.

She's not abandoning net zero, but she's trying to kind of say, well, we're also we're looking after the costs.

If trying to do both things at once, is it successful?

No.

I think she needs to land on a firm policy position on this, and I hope that she comes out the way the federal Party has come out and is against netzero.

But she's been in the position for five minutes.

She's been there for two days.

Susan Lee was how long was she there for before they came up with give her a chance?

Like she is from the moderate faction.

I like Hellye's loan.

On a personal level, she is my local member for which she's been criticized for, you know, the member for.

Book Clue, your local member, you know, the.

Member for book Clues, which I think is really unfair because I do think that she has she comes from a public education background.

She talked about that she's worked in lots of different industries.

She hasn't always just been a career politician.

I think she's impressive and I think she can get the party there.

But the problem is that, I mean a further away.

But we've got a first term government here, Labor government, the Premier Christmins.

He's very good, he's very likable.

He's from the right of the Labor Party.

It's a very different situation to Victoria.

So I don't think the Liberals here actually have as much chance in some respects as they might have in Victoria if they put up, if they put up a good opposition and give people what the alternative?

There are you buying the Kelly Sloane.

I think I don't know the.

Lay of the land as well as Caroline and yourself, given your locals.

But to me, she's more impressive than her predecessor.

I think she will be a better communicator.

Now you're sitting here very very low.

I got to tell you, I got it.

Well, we're talking about state Lib Party.

I mean, the expectations are low, and somehow they still manage not to meet them most of the time.

I think I think she could.

I mean I think the whole her seat, whether that works against her, is very fascinating because I think, again that's a very Sydney thing that you've got this super super affluent area that most people could not imagine ever affording to live there.

And if that's the local member, you know, how well does she really understand the struggles of people in the Outer West.

Having said that, there are a lot of I mean, there's still public housing in the area, there are still people who aren't I take your point.

It is the richest area in Australia, but it is also has a whole wide demographic of people there.

I think she's written name recognition will really help her because most people would struggle, even in Sydney, if you ask the person on the street, they're not politically engage like our viewers would struggle to identify who Mark Speakman is, but they would know who Kelly Sloan is and that does really help.

It does.

And I think she's a warmer, more likable character than say Jess Wilson.

And again that could be Jess is in experience, but she does come across as very robotic, and you know her background isn't exactly terribly rich full of experience.

You know, she's worked as a staffer, she was part of an industry body and you know she's now leading the opposition So I think Kelly Sloan if I were to, if I were a betting woman, which I'm not, I would be backing her.

To perform better.

But obviously she's got the enormous hurdle of having a first term labor government led by someone who is enormously popular and a very good politician.

You know again, people who are not all that politically engage would look at means and.

Just say, he seems like a good bloke.

He's someone I could have a beer with, and that is invaluable in political.

And to be honest, here is a good bloke.

It's hard to fault him on a lot of things.

So't she's lovely?

He's lovely.

It's going to be Can you send one of them to Victoria?

Either one?

Just send one of.

Them to Victoria because both of ours, this is all this.

Is all too lovey dovey Familia.

Let's talk about one nation who have rocketed up in the polls seventeen percent and one eighteen percent, terrific numbers which were actually predicted by James Allen and the Spectator Australia several weeks ago.

And this is obviously all built around net zero and immigration and this particular poll says Specter's Strategy Polls shows that people are more concerned about immigration than climate change.

Well, yes, Australians are now more worried, you know about the influx of people coming into the nation.

One nation scored big ticks on both of those.

We've seen a lot of people moving over to one nation.

It'll be interesting to see whether the Liberal Party federally manages to drag some of them back or not.

We'll be chatting to Matt Canavan very shortly here on the show about the and the Coalition having landed on the net zero anti net zero position.

RETA, what do you think about this?

The emphasis on immigration is that where the Liberals now need to be really focusing their attention.

Well, they finally sorted their net zero issues, that was huge, but immigration is the other one where again there's an increasing number of Australians who feel like the major parties don't represent their views.

They both on a unity ticket.

Yes, the Liberals immigration figures are slightly less than labor, but they're still massive by any sort of global standards.

When you look at our population and how many are coming in every year and the increase there so This is again a massive opportunity for the Liberals to meet the electorate and give them what they're demanding, which is real choice.

Now, it doesn't mean you've got a ban immigration and have a zero net immigration policy, but you do have to listen to people and say, okay, we will have for the next five years one hundred and fifty thousand net that's dramatically lower than the Liberals and obviously Labour's current targets, and that will give people a choice on an issue that we know they care about.

And there was another poll out in the last two weeks which mirrored this one again showing the number of people concerned about immigration has doubled in a number of years.

So that is a clear sign that people feel like they're not being heard here.

Well, Caroline, the federally little Liberal Party are now going to start focusing on both defense and on immigration.

Rita is right, there is a reluctance and we heard that actually from Kelly Sloan just earlier this morning, with the New South Wales Libs kind of hesitating to come hard in on immigration for fears that there's been a baby recession.

I think is what how Kelly Sloane referred to it when we need a baby boom.

Agree with that, but the argument from the New South Wales with Libs on and we need to keep the immigration high.

So that's a problem.

I think.

Yeah, they and the Liberal Party on a state and federal level can't be afraid to have this fight, which they have been, because they's so scared of being labeled racist, anti immigrant.

By the way, talking about slurs that we get online, I was accused of being anti immigrant a couple of days ago.

I am an immigrant.

I just talk about the fact that we have to control immigration numbers because we cannot just open the gates.

Obviously, we cannot be a borderless society.

And that's what If you express that view about controlling immigration, which a lot of immigrants, let me point out a lot of new immigrants agree, and although immigrants agree on then you are labeled with these slurs.

And that's what so many politicians are afraid of.

Look at what happened.

We're just enterprise, some ill advised comments about Indian migration.

But she got such an unfair, such unfair life held at her, and then there was such quibbling in her own party to sort of distance themselves from her, when there should have been at least an attempt to defend the position she was trying to expect.

I'm going to pick you up on that because I didn't think her comments were ill advised and Reada's going to probably agree with me.

They weren't ill advised.

She was merely citing a labor poll that showed that the Labor Party were preferencing certain communities in order to boost their vote.

That's all just enterprise was doing.

And as usual, the Liberal Party turned on her for citing comments.

She had her own.

She shouldn't say apology for the shouldn't.

Have she corrected something that was unnecessary.

She was quoting a labor pollster, so who had said that their polling it showed at the last federal election a huge number of that population, which which is now the second biggest migrant group in the country, was voting labor.

So I think citing a labor upholster should not be a hanging offense.

With you to get back, and also telling the truth shouldn't be.

Not an accident that Kelly Sloane visited Western Sydney on her first day in the position and deliberately met with members of the Indian community.

I don't think that's an accident.

No, it's not an accident.

But the point is nobody respects you.

If you walk away from an honest comment, and that comment was honest, then the Liberal Party should have got behind you center Price and said, yes, labor are using immigration to boost their own numbers.

It's exactly the same as the Democrats in the United States, exactly the same as labor in Britain and Conservatives unless they are prepared to come out and say very clearly something that people back to Paul Keating were boasting about.

They were you know, labor were going, yeah, this is great, We're going to do this.

It's going to boost our numbers.

So when the Conservatives turn around and say you're doing what you're doing is actually not helping Australia, they get called racist and anti immigrants when they're just telling the true and what was.

Just said that I think Kelly Sloan said, or you know, Australians aren't having babies, so we need to have immigration.

Well, one of the reasons young people are not getting married or starting families is housing, because if you can't afford to put a roof over your head and support yourself.

How are you going to be supporting a family?

So if you keep bringing in enormous amounts of people, pushing up the cost of housing, pushing up the cost of many other things that are necessary in life, you shouldn't be shocked that young people are a little bit disillusioned about their chances of being able to support a family, and they may delay having a family that may have smaller families, or not have families at all.

I mean, and that is fairly catastrophic for a country, not just economically but on a societal level.

You're not what the other reason people cite for not having families.

I mean, this is a certain demographic on the lefties believe it.

But I think that the opposition.

Who's responsible about our education system, our education system perhaps and the ABC I'll be talking about that as well, but just quickly reater on the carry on from that point about our labor tend to use immigration and associated topics to boost their own popularity.

We've got this story that the Albanezy government awarded almost thirty million dollars that's your money, thirty million dollars of your money to an Islamic organization who's top cleric urged Muslims to wage gihad and fund fighters against Israel.

That's your labor government, Alban easy Wong Bert, that whole crowd handing out nearly thirty twenty seven million dollars to this outfit.

What do you make of it?

Rita, I can't say.

I'm terribly shocked.

This is this sort of thing a labor government does.

The program is called Security Uplifts for Muslim Communities in Australia program, So that's obviously clear what that is what.

But there is very.

Accountability and that the people who keep telling us how they are all about.

Tolerance and inclusion and stamping out hate can turn a blind eye to some very hateful comments that are made by some and racist.

I mean, he said it is obligatory for all Muslims and Muslim nations to engage in jihad against the Zionist entity.

And that is clear.

I mean, that is that's anti semitism, so plain and simple.

That's promoting that's inciting violence against a certain group.

But I mean, i'd also despite the comments, whether he made these comments or not, the fact that the government in the middle of an anti semitism christ announced security upgrades for synagogues and schools which were being targeted and firebombed during the past two years, but at the same time had to go and hand over tens of millions of dollars to the Islamic community who says that they've received threats as well.

Trying to make out as if there is an equivalence or any kind of comparison between the attacks and the two groups just shows you what our labor government is about.

Absolutely, the moral equivalence is sick.

Linda Reynolds, let's talk about this as well.

We have two and a half million dollars was awarded under circumstances which were subject to a lot of discussion at the time when Labor came in.

Two point four million dollars given to Britney Higgins without going into all the details around it, but basically the reason for the for the two point four million dollars pout was because of supposedly the cover up by the liberal part which of course helped Labor get into power.

So this has a long tail, this story.

Lots of unpleasantness in the background of this story, but we now have well, let's have listened to Anthony Albanizi being asked questions.

About this a rape occurred in that is what a judge found on the balance of probability in a ministerial office in Palmer House.

I think that's a pretty big issue.

But isn't it separate to the allegations.

And the cover up?

I think that's I think that is a pretty big issue.

It isn't two and a half million dollars a.

Time you can keep fashion the same question and you get the same answer.

So he got quite surety prior to that reta.

And after that.

I like him at all, really, I think it was a little bit uncharacteristic for him.

He's a little bit smarter and media savvy.

But he was very short with.

The journalist who asked the question.

Initially made some snide remark about her reading out the question as if that's some sort of a failure.

And dismissed it.

And then when the rest of the journalists, i think on the following day started asking him follow up questions, he just got worse and worse.

His performance was really quite poor there.

He must know this is coming, and the line of answering, which is just denial, denial, denial, when we've had two judges determined there was no cover up.

There was no cover up.

It was a media creation.

It was a weaponization by the Labor Party that the media jumped or elements of the media.

Jumped on board with.

And the Labor Party is going to have to pay a price for weaponizing an alleged rape to smear a female MP, female staffers and the s's got Morrison government in general, and they were determined to use this alleged incident to say this is a sign of a government that is rotten, that doesn't support women, that would deliberately harm a victim of violence, a victim of rape to further their political ambitions.

That was the story that was told.

Fiona Brown has paid a very high price.

Linda Reynolds, though she has been vindicated and has had these wins in court, has paid a very high price, not just with her reputation and her health, but financially she is out of pocket an enormous amount, despite the fact that she's been awarded these sums, because who knows if she's ever going to receive even a fraction of it.

Well, let's speak clear.

There were the two of Labour's senators Penny Wong and Katie Gallagher were very aggressive in the Senate against Linda Rehlds.

And this was in the run up to the twenty twenty two election which Labor then won, and a lot of the reason Labor won that election was people felt that the Morrison government had done this cover up in relationship to Britney Higgins.

The biggest mistake in my opinion, apart from the disgustingness of what Labor were doing in the Senate, but also Scott Morrison made an apology for a cover up which we now learn were appeared to make a cover up for apologies in.

The I mean Cameron Milner, who's the former chief of staff to Bill Shorten.

He wrote a column for the Lightly saying that this is Albanize's Watergate moment.

He is blatantly misrepresenting what has been found by as Rita says two judges now there was no political cover up and the fact that they awarded Brittany Higgins two point four five million dollars in compensation after one day of mediation in which Linda Reynolds was not allowed to defend herself is a disgrace and Albaniz he should not be defending that in any way possible.

Linda Reynolds is now taking the Commonwealth and a law firm.

She's suing them in court, so we'll see what the court, a third court has to say about all this thing.

And honest, we will be funding this.

The taxpayers are going to be funding the defense here when we've already paid out this amount under questionable circumstances one day without the key people being called to defend themselves.

There needs to be complete transparency on how they came to these decisions, and there has to be some accountability.

This is not the sort of conduct that you're going to be able just to forget.

This was the biggest story in the country for months, for months, So you can't have this fake news that you've manufactured to try to smear not just Linda Reynolds and Fiona Brown but other members of the Morrison government and then just walk away and say oops, sorry about that, Sorry we got that wrong.

I mean we were saying at the time very carefully because there were so many restrictions on what you could say.

It was evident to me from the start there was no cover up, and the fact that some in the media jumped on this and just went ahead like this was crystal clear that there was this cover up when there.

Was no evidence of that.

You know, I was covering that there was no ever trial for Sky News, and I was covering what Bruce Lherman was saying in his sort of evidence that he'd submitted to his defamation trial against ten And I reported that, and I tweeted about it and I said he called it a political hit job.

It was straight reporting.

Brittany Higgins and her now husband David Chaaz started trolling me about the fact that I was reporting that there was a political hit job.

Now, whatever the judge did find on the balance of probabilities there had been a rape, but listening to all the evidence in court, it was very clear to anyone who was there, as well as the judge there was no political cover up.

In fact the opposite.

They tried to get her to go to police and they walked her to the police office.

Fiona Brown walked Brittany Higgins to the police office in Parliament House and she refused to follow through with it initially.

And when we've got all those text message exchanges about it's a sitting week, we want to go to the media on this stage as we'll get maximum coverage.

All of that is on the record.

Again, it was pretty evident and so many in the media who did have their doubts, we couldn't speak openly because of the restrictions onred percent.

Love to carry on with this chat, but we've got to take a short break and we'll be back with Rita's reality check and Matt Canavan in a check.

You're watching outside as with your hosts Rowan Dean, Caroline Marcus, and I'm Rita Panehy and Matt Canavan.

We'll be joining us shortly, but first, after years of a ignoring Jeffrey Epstein's saga, the media and the Democrats suddenly became energized about an issue they dismissed as a nothing burger during Joe Biden's presidency.

Sadly, predictably, their.

Excitement didn't stem from any righteous sense of justice, a desire to exact revenge for the victims, nor was it about holding the rich and powerful to account.

Instead, it was all.

About, you guessed it, a desperate attempt to connect Epstein's criminality with President Donald Trump in what may become one of the biggest own goals of the decade.

The Democrats have engineered the release of the investigation material on the Disgrace Financier aka the Epstein files.

President Trump signed.

Legislation on Thursday to allow the Justice Department to release the files on the convicted sex offender and pedophile.

The first scup has been Larry Summers, the former Harvard University president and former Treasury Secretary under President Bill Kill Bill Clinton.

He resigned from the board of Open AI and stepped back from his teaching duties at Harvard after expressing shame for his association with Epstein.

But he was hardly alone in choosing to associate with Epstein even after it was clear who and what he was.

From Prince Andrew to Chelsea Handler to Woody Allen to Katie Curriic and Michael Wolfe, there were plenty willing to break bread with Epstein.

You know who's not on that list, President Donald Trump, who had already banished Jeffrey Epstein from Marra Lago even before his two thousand and eight conviction.

More scalps will undoubtedly follow, but it's worth noting that not everyone named in the files is accused of any wrongdoing.

Last week, the Democrats on the House Oversight Committee indulged in some underhanded mischief to smear President Trump by redacting the name of a known Epstein victim.

They almost got away with her two thanks to the inept Trump deranged media.

The most salacious material released by the Democrats was a twenty eleven email from Epstein to his long term girlfriend and accomplice, Glaine Maxwell, saying, I want you to realize that that dog that hasn'tbarked is Trump victim name was redacted.

Spent hours at my house with him.

He has not once been mentioned, police chief, etc.

I'm seventy five percent there that saw scandalous headlines around the world about Trump spending hours with an Epstein victim, and for many that's all they took from that new cycle.

But for those who were paying closer attention, it was long before it became clear that the unnamed victim had been previously identified, with officials confirming it was Virginia Duffrey, who died from suicide earlier this year.

But here's the problem for the Trump deranged conspiracy.

The things Jeffrey, whose brave stand saw the man previously known as Prince Andrew stripped of his royal military and honorary titles.

Giffrey had said repeatedly that.

Trump had done nothing wrong, He had not acted inappropriately.

She made that clear in statements, she made that clear in her memoir, and most importantly, she made it clear and sworn testimony submitted to a court.

And that's why the Democrats redacted her name in the email to make it appear that this was some new scandal.

It was a dirty, underhanded tactic that two men in the media fell for.

Initially.

What is clear is that Jeffrey Epstein was not only a staunch Democrat, but he was also a prolific donor to the Democratic Party.

Epstein's hatred of Donald Trump is also well established.

After Trump banned his former friend from mar A Lago in two thousand and eight, and that occurred months before Epstein pleaded guilty to charges including sex with a fourteen year old.

Most of us would call that rape.

Trump hating Epstein associate Michael Wolfe gave us another insight into why the pedophile hated Trump sovehemently have listened to this.

At that point, Epstein's legal problems began.

The police began to investigate him over allegations that he was that there were underage women coming to his house.

Epstein believed that it was Trump who first informed the police about what was going on at Epstein's house, and from that point on they were nothing but bitter enemies.

And this is what he's telling you.

This is one of the instances of what he's telling you that.

Yes, Epstein believed that it was Trump who first informed the police about what was going on.

Think about that and what we now know.

The real story here is Jeffrey Epstein, a convicted pedophile, was plotting with the Democrats to get Trump.

Epstein was even feed reading questions to a House Democrat during a twenty nineteen congressional hearing.

Despite Epstein's criminality and ongoing creepy antics, it was welcome in some elite circles and courted by the Democrats, who continued to solicit.

Donations from him.

This week, the Democrats sought to muddy the waters again by suggesting that Jeffrey Epstein also backed Republicans, with Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett claiming he donated funds to a number of Republicans, including Trump appointed EPA administrator Lee Zelden.

Folks who also took money from somebody named Jeffrey Epstein.

As I had my team digg in very quickly, met Romney, the narcc Lee Zelden, George bush Win, Rare McCain, Palin, Rick Lazio.

I just want to be clear, if this is the standard that we're gonna make, just know we're gonna expose it all and just know that the FEC violins.

They are available for everybody to review.

This is absolutely ridiculous.

It is absolutely ridiculous, Jasmine, because it turned out the donations that she's mentioning there, including to Lee Zelden, came from a Jeffrey Epstein, who is a physician.

No links to the disgraced financier.

None.

Now, I believe President on Trump's failure to release the Epstein files back in July was the first major misstep of his second term, particularly after his Attorney General, Pam Bondi, had declared in February that the files were sitting on her desk ready to be reviewed.

It may be an issue.

Of little importance to the President personally, but many in his base want to see the matter tackled head on.

When Trump calls the matter a hoax, He's not referring to Epstein's criminality or links with powerful people.

He's referring to the Democrat narrative seeking to tie his name to the man he banished back in two thousand and eight.

Now, let's hope the release of these files brings measure of justice to those complicit in Epstein's crimes and exposes all those opportunists who sought his help even after it became clear that he was an unrepentant pedophile.

Thanks Retha Well.

Joining us now is National Senator Matt Canavan.

Great to see you.

Matt's always great to see him.

Great to see you today.

What so much to talk about?

Chris Bowen is now going to take his climate clown show to the world, is going to be the ringmaster on the global stage.

Now what his fantasies have come true?

What did you make of Cop thirty and what do you make matter the fact that it looks like we damn missed out on our Cop thirty one spendeth on?

What a shame?

But Bowen's up there, what do you make of Well?

Look, I am a little disappointed, Rawan.

I'd only ask Santa Claus for one thing this Christmas and that was to have the hosting right for the cop next year in Adelaide.

I know many of your viewers would be a gass at that, but it was going to be a ridiculous, crazy two billion dollar cost.

But given net zero is going to cost US nine trillion dollars, I think it might have been money well spent because it would have been the final nail in the coffin to see all these rich elites arriving here in their private jets, swinging wine, eating Marvell nine wag use steaks and then lecturing us all about how we're all evil for consuming too much and driving too many cars.

So it would have been an amazing opportunity to hammer home while we've got to dump net zero because it's not helping the Australian people.

It's making all of us poorer, costing us our jobs, costing us our national security, and costing us our confidence as a country.

So we've got to get away from it.

In terms of Chris Bowen's clown show, well, look he's been humiliated this week, humiliated by his own Prime minister.

He was over there in Brazil doing his best at admittedly doing the government's job, to try and get and secure these hosting rights, and the Prime Minister behind the scenes just completely undermined him and said overnight, overnight, while we're there in Brazil, that I know we're going to.

Let Turkey win it.

Clearly, clearly Rowan, the Prime Minister is now off kilter on net zero.

Clearly the primeister's falling out of love with net zero now that it's coming under some sustained attack and opposition from the Liberal and National Party.

There who you've got today, the Prime Minister's coming out and saying, oh, no, no, no, he supports coal and gas, while while his Energy minister over there in Brazil has been signing agreements to say we've got a transition away from coal and gas.

The government is a mess here, a complete mess.

And while I didn't get my first Christmas present, maybe my second wish now will be that the Prime Minister wakes up to himself and sacks Chris Bowen, because clearly him and Chris Bowen are not on the same page here.

They're not on the same page about the future of coal and gas experts, they're not on the same page about where the climate conferences should go.

And now we have a government that is completely at sea on energy policy and has no plan to bring down power prices or secure the good, high paying jobs we have in this nation.

Matt great Heart, by the way, love it.

What do you see happening?

I mean, Chris Bowen, we didn't get this conference, but he is going to be the president for all intents and purposes of cop even though it's happening in another country, even though we lost our bid to host it here.

Does that make him a part time energy minister for Australia.

Well, it may, it may just do that, But I mean, has he been a full time energy minister to day time?

I don't know.

I don't think we've had somebody really on the tools on energy policy for the last few years.

Seemingly, Chris Bowen has spent the last few years campaigning to host a climate conference in Australia, not to deliver on his promises to lower energy.

So Chris Bowen should be sacked because of his failures, not just because he now has got a new job, but the fact that he's now got this new job makes it even more absurd that he would continue as our part time energy minister while we have an energy crisis.

In this country we have power price has got up another forty six percent under his watch.

We are losing thousands of manufacturing jobs by the week, and now we're having to spend billions to keep what manufacturing we have left here.

We've got a situation now where Indonesia.

Indonesian businesses are paying a third for electricity than we are.

They've opened something like twenty cold fire powerstations in three years.

They're completely thumbing their nose at all this net zero rubbish.

And they are stealing our industries.

They've stole our nickel industry last year.

They now want to steal our copper, our minium industries.

How many jobs do we have to lose in this country before we wake up to ourselves and say, hey, maybe we should use some of the energy we export to the world for ourselves so we can have good jobs here in this country.

Now, let Indonesia take all our industries because we've got wind turbines, matt and it's been.

Discovered that we've got asbestos.

In some of these Chinese built wind farms, including one in Tasmania.

Tell me about this development.

This must be enormously worrying to the local community there to have asbestos in these Chinese built wind farms.

Well, reader, I think this is just another example of how our obsession with nen zero is blinding us to other important things that we must do.

And so because we're just focused on net zero, just focused on, in the government's case, delivering eighty two percent renewable energy by twenty thirty, they're happy or turn a blind eye to the lack of standards we're seeing in some of the rollout of this mad rush is reckless rush to renewable energy, and so this is just another example of that.

Seemingly we're happy to lo are our very strong and strict standards, which we should have, health and safety standards, exposing workers potentially to risk, exposing communities to risk.

I've met with other people this week talking about the electricity regulations that aren't being imposed on some of these projects because they're just trying to rush them out too quickly, and they're getting unskilled, untrained people, often from overseas to come and install this equipment, and they're not doing it to the rigorous safety standards that we expect here in this developed nation.

So this is another reason why we need to dump this net zero rubbish, because we do have important priorities apart from just reducing emissions.

We have to secure our nation.

We shouldn't be de industrializing.

We have to maintain our industrial strength.

We have to provide a home for people to live in this country.

I want to make sure that people can afford their power bills again in this nation.

These are all important goals and objectives.

But because the government is simply solely obsessed with one thing and that is near zero, everybody else is getting poorer and our standards are slipping because of that.

Matt, I want to quickly ask you about something that came out of National Mining and Agricultural Day the other day this weekend.

Trees are creeds.

A farmer.

She's made the point that the solar panel manufacturers and particular and other renewables love fertile farming land because the land is softer and therefore it's cheaper to put up these massive solar farms.

So they're deliberately targeting some of our best prime agricultural land for these insane solar panels, which people in the city think, oh, they must be out there in the desert somewhere other but just have a quick listen to Teresa Creed as she talks about this problem.

They want softer soil, they want cleared land, They don't want any regulations because they have to rush this stuff through.

So the soft soil is fantastic for hammering in nine million posts.

So I don't.

Think a lot of it really comes down to the environment at all.

In fact, I don't think any of it does.

So it's for every reason other than the environment.

So matter how much prime agricultural land is Australia losing to solar panels, etc.

We're losing massive amount row And I know Terresa and her lovely family, the Creeds, are doing an amazing job trying to fight these behemoths who are seeking to destroy some of our best lands in this country.

And she's absolutely right while they're targeting.

It's why they're building the wind turbines on the ridge lines of the Great Providing Range because they want the wind and it's close to transmission lines, even though it is destroying the environment.

So we are we are trying to apparently help the environment with net zero, but in fact it's actually being destroyed because of it.

In terms of how much land we've lost, I mean, so far to lower our carbon emissions, we've lost seven point two million hectares of land, mostly farmland.

Keep in mind that roughly speaking, guys, we've reduced our missions by one hundred and sixty million tons on an annual basis since twousand and five.

That's where Chris Bowen goes and lords the rest of the world.

One hundred and fifty of that one sixty is thanks to converting farmland to forestry.

So we take land that could produce food, be productive, well, notionally put trees on it, but quite often and we just leave it to unmanaged scrub pests and weeds just move in.

It doesn't help the environment at all, the local environment even and then we credit those as some kind of carbon credit through this weird accounting system, pat ourselves on the back.

Meanwhile, those in the cities, the campaign against climate, they're not doing anything.

We haven't stopped driving, we haven't stopped flying.

Their emissions have got up, and it's the people in the bush and the farming communities are paying the price of lower production, fewer jobs in this mad rush.

Just one other thing on the renewable energy side of it, going forward, going forward, net zero Australia, which is a consortive of the universities who promote net zero.

They say we need to use twelve million hectares of land to host solot wind and transmission lines to get to net zero.

So we've already lost seven million tons another twelve million tons of this stuff.

That's over eight eight million hectares.

That's more than three Tasmanias, three Tasmanians Tasmania size areas to host solot wind transmission lines.

And this reforestation, unbelieved, it doesn't do anything to any environmental issues.

Matt always great to chat to you.

Sorry we've got to rush to a break, but thank you so much for chatting to us.

As always, Matt Canavan brilliant work he does in the Senate.

There after the break for a little bit more time for emissions impossibility.

Yes, it's omissions impossible.

And our mission, which we do choose to accept, is to show how insane the net zero world and policy world is.

I mentioned National Mining and Agricultural Days which is supported by Hancock Prospecting.

Have a quick listen to Gina Reinhart and Tony Seabrook, who you will recognize from outsiders.

We're depriving farmers and of their livelihoods.

We're taking away industry in our country.

We're doing so much stuff that's just going to make everything more expensive.

You know, the average person doesn't know well, they.

Are just a swamped with this moral Oh we have to do this for you know, a climate gate.

Climate change the earth speak to the change in climate since before man was on the planet.

But it's worse than that.

These same people that are moralizing will go and watch a football match plaid at nighttime under lights.

They'll fly all over the world in a three eighty air buses with three hundred and twenty thousand liters of fuel on board, and they don't even know it.

They don't care.

And that's the point, isn't it, Caroline that Matt Canavan was also making.

The people in the cities are quite happy to fly off.

The climate change conferences spend billions of dollars.

It's the people on the land to suffer, and I.

Can't always help.

But be reminded of Zali Staggle lecturing everybody on how they should get solar panels on their own house, when it was then revealed she didn't have solar panels on her, you know, beautiful Northern Beaches home.

She was driving like the worst kind of gas guzzling for drive as well.

So, I mean it's just so much hypocrisy and double standards, isn't there?

But there you saw in that image, you saw the wealth that can come from the Australian bush, from the land.

It's there, That's what we built this country on, and yet we're throwing it all the way so that Chris Bowen can trot around the globe, sit in Brazil sipping champagne or whatever else they do at COP thirty conferences lecturing the rest of US Rita.

He has a lot of economic self harm happening.

And I still don't understand how we managed to send a small country population wise.

Almost five hundred people to COP thirty.

How do we send How do taxpayers get any value from up to five hundred people?

I mean that is incredible.

And again, if you care passionately about this, then surely this conference can be done remotely.

Why would you be flying.

Five hundred from Austutralia to attend this talk fest?

Well, as I said, it's the people on I mean five hundreds more than many Australian small towns and yet if they fly to elect the rest of the world, but it is the bush and the land that are really suffering under this labor government and that has to change.

After the break, I'll chat a little bit more about net zero and we chat to Shamika Michelle as well.

Hello, you're watching Outsiders with Rita tipping Point, Panehee, Caroline, Climate catastrophe, Marcus and myself Rowan Windmills full of us best us Dean.

Last week I played you Dan Tian's excruciating response to Sarah Ferguson on the ABC about the self evident contradiction of jettison net zero.

Well done, but remaining in the Paris agreement, boo, here's a brief recap.

We will take a policy to the next election and we will seek an impromata from the Australian people to our policy, and then that we will use that to inform the interim targets that we set through our.

And it went on and on like that.

But last week I also praised Susan Lee for this response to a similar question.

If there are reasons why people in Paris or in some United Nations organization don't like it, I can deal with that.

Yes, So imagine my dismay when Susan Lay then adopted the tearan approach when she too went up against Sarah Ferguson, who, apart from interrupting her some thirty plus times, as Andrew Bold hilariously demonstrated this week, actually Sarah Ferguson actually asked Susan a perfectly reasonable question.

Is this your message to Teal voters, those Teal voters that you need to win back to secure the crucial seats to enable you to actually be in government.

Is your message to them that they should be thinking about embracing coal.

My message to them is that our affordable Energy Plan.

Is your message to them that they should take a new look, of fresh look, go back to coal.

Sarah, we're talking about a transition away from coal as a baseload power.

Are you no, Susan, stop listening to your spin doctors and just tell the truth.

When your policy is to prioritize energy cost to the consumer over net zero emissions targets, when your policy is to make use of Australia's abundant energy resources, and when then someone says to you, are you asking Australians to look again at coal.

Then there is only one truthful answer, and that answer is yes, full stop.

No explanation needed, no qualifications needed.

Of course, you are asking Australians to look again at coal.

This is cole.

Don't be frightened of it.

Remember the famous words of Scott Morrison.

Australians will trust you if if you tell the unvarnished truth.

Stop trying to win your opponents over, stop trying to appease the crocodile, stare it down.

That's what leaders do.

Simply say yes and leave it at that.

People respect honesty.

Sadly, things got even worse when Susan Lee popped up on another ABC show where she was quizzed about here we go again the science.

I've heard you say before that you do believe in the science behind climate change.

Absolutely.

You were standing next to National's leader David littlprout on Sunday as he explicitly said that this decision is not based on science.

Is that right?

I don't believe that's what he said.

He said that the economics is what we need to focus on, saying this debate.

Is not about science.

Mister bib is not one prediccard on science it is one predicad on economics.

He's certainly not walking away from the science of climate change.

There may have been a misunderstanding.

There now susan a word of warning.

The science behind climate change is one of those meaningless tortological concepts so beloved of the left, which allows them to get away with blue murder phrases like do you believe women?

Or black lives matter?

Or love is love?

The list goes on and on.

These phrases can't be argued with because they are self referential.

The science behind whatever should ring alarm bells to everyone who is mocked and ridiculed during COVID or even forced to take a vaccine against their will.

There is science literally behind anything and everything, because science is merely the study of how a thing works, and by understanding how a thing works allows for projections or predictions of how things may work in the future.

Science is based on observation, proven facts, and precise formulae.

Science is not a belief system.

Religion is the description of belief systems, not science.

Scientific theories evolve and should be subject to constant, rigorous testing and challenge.

There is no single science behind climate change.

There is a scientific hypothesis behind global warming called the greenhouse effect.

Beyond that, there is a plethora of theories, models, projections, and likelihoods based on modeling, which is based on inputs and based on assumptions which may or may not be right or wrong.

So when some young kid on the ABC says, do you believe in the science behind climate change?

Again, there is only one truthful and honest answer, what do you mean?

So, for example, if the interviewer smuggling says, well, the science tells us renewables are the cheapest form of energy, are very easy responses, And science also tells us that asbestos is absolutely deadly, And science tells us that we should immediately replace all the Chinese wind mills containing asbestos.

Or even better, the science suggests we should immediately halt the import of all Chinese windmills because they may, we our learn, contain asbestos, and this will cost the taxpayer fortune money we don't actually have not to mention as the science also tells us that the asbestos and all poisonous glues in or on aknown number of Chinese wind towers and wind tower blades can pollute our canola, paddox, our wheat, our bali, our oats, and even affect paddocks where our sheep and cattle are.

That's the science.

So no, the science is clear.

If you're so called renewable machinery has parts riddled with asbestos, I doubt it is either the cheapest or the safest form of energy Susan.

Faced with specifics, the typical lefty will immediately retort with some hysterical virtue signaling accusations such as, so you don't believe in climate change, you're a climate denier, or some such nonsense to which there is only one honest and truthful response.

I believe in dramatically reducing the cost of electricity to Australian homes full stop.

That is our energy policy, and I'm more than happy to answer any questions about it.

If the interviewer persists, which they will force the interviewer to be precise and to quote whatever science they are referring to.

The beauty of the phrase climate change, as Donald Trump has pointed out, is it basically refers to anything you want it to.

So, for example, I can choose to accept or not accept the scientific hypothesis that the planet has warmed over the last century, but That hypothesis may have nothing whatsoever to do with or everything to do with, the theory of anthropogenic global warning warning, but there are any number of other scientific theories you could also look to to support that or other observations.

That's the point of science.

Competing theories based on pinpoint accuracy, not vague, bland, feel good generalizations define precisely what you are talking about, which the Left never can because everything the Left does is based on emotion, dogma, ideology and smug self righteousness.

I fervently want the Coalition to win the next federal election.

The damage being done by Labor on so many fronts is literally destroying the Australia we all loved and grew up in before our very eyes.

The landscape is being torn asunder.

Our cities are being flooded with people who do not necessarily share our values and in many instances have no desire or need to assimilar But the Left are as cunning as rattlesnakes and just as deadly.

The last election was a farce.

Labour simply lied its way back into power.

Medicare being only one of those disgraceful lies.

The Coalition needs to immediately put in the hard yards to have an answer to every one of those ABC catch all questions, and those answers must be honest and truthful.

If I were Susan Lay, I'd be organizing a weekend away with the entire shadow Cabinet and getting Matt Canavan, who we just had on the show, to brief them all, every single one of them, on every issue, from hell coal fire stations, to climate myths, to win mills containing asbestos, all of it, because there you'll get honest, truthful answers.

The way to win the next election is to be able to answer questions about energy and climate change honestly and truthfully.

Obfiscation is not what Australians want or need.

Stop listening to the spin doctors.

Pandering to the preconceptions of people who will never ever vote for you is futile and a waste of breath.

Why is Susan Lee or dan Ley t and even bothering to turn up on the ABC, which they do with astonishing frequency.

Has it helped them in the polls self?

Evidently no.

If it were down to me, here's how I would answer the ABC's Sarah Ferguson as Leader of the Opposition Rowan.

Do you believe in the science behind climate change.

That's a great question, thanks Sarah.

But before we get to the science, we have to separate the science from the propaganda.

Now I happen to have here a report from the such and such a think tank which clearly shows that the number one proponent of climate change propaganda in Australia is the ABC, including your btn behind the News daily show in our schools, followed closely by the SBS and then the SIRO.

The combined total expenditure by the Albanezi government on climate propaganda, including the cost of Crispo and parading around the planet as the COP thirty one Commissar, is estimated to be around oh X billion dollars a year, money that the Australian taxpayer has to borrow to fund.

So one of our first actions in government will be to cancel all taxpayer funding of climate change propaganda, which will sadly mean slashing the ABC's budget in our first year of government by at least fifty percent.

And if that fails to stem the flood of pernicious climate propaganda into our schools of households, then in our second year we will have no recourse other than to sell off the ABC.

Now, what was your next question?

Sarah joining US House political commentator shamaka Michelle Schamaker.

Always great to see you.

Hope you are well there in North Carolina.

Now we want to we want we played earlier the clip of Zornmondani with Donald Trump in the White House.

We played at early.

It was great, but we want to get your opinions on that.

So the great socialist, communist, whatever he is, went to the White House.

What did you make of the way Donald Trump dealt with him?

You know, I do feel like Trump was very nice with him.

I do feel like he used kid gloves.

But maybe that's a tactic that he has, you know, where they say keep your enemies closer, Maybe that's actually what he was doing.

I've watched Trump.

Over the years, and sometimes I don't agree with the way he goes about things, but it seems more often than not that his way is the right way.

So I'm still just trusting in him as the leader of this country and hoping that.

He actually knows what he's doing.

It's hard for me to think that you could meet a socialist or some a communist halfway or try to get along with them.

But he has been elected, he is in office, and so I'm just going to see how it all plays out.

Riata, he was very complimentary.

I was shocked.

So they're both New Yorkers and he wants New York to succeed.

He's had a big week.

Christiano Ronaldo, possibly the biggest sporting superstar anywhere in.

The world, was at the White House.

Tell me about that.

Donald Trump seems to be freeing together all sorts of people, including Nicki Minaj, who thanked the Trump administration for bringing attention to what is happening in Nigeria with the persecution of Christians.

It's been a big week.

Yeah, you know, this is one of Donald Trump's strong suits.

He has the ability to bring people together.

I think he's a very likable person, which is why the left works so hard to make.

People not like him.

They actually have to make.

Up lies and spend certain narratives so that he's not the person that he's always He was always pretty much beloved here, even by the hip hop community.

So Nicki Minach coming out and taking this stance is not really surprising to me.

He was the American dream for so long until he looked to be a threat to the left or to the establishment.

So I'm not surprised that so many people want to be around him, want to be in his presence.

This is the type of person he is and has always.

Been, Jamika.

We saw, obviously the Trump's very cordial meeting with Mum Donnie.

One of the things that the New York mayor elect has been criticized for is for refusing to give condemn comments like globalizer intovata.

Now he walked that back a little bit in his campaign, but then in Manhattan this week we saw a group of protesters outside of synagogue.

I think we might have this cliff.

We don't, unfortunately, but they were chanting that very phrase, mobilize the inter Fada into Fada revolution outside the synagogue with a nnti three year old rabbi inside who is a Holocaust of Barbe had lived through all of that the first time around.

What did he make of that?

Do you think that someone like min Johnny can really stamp out anti Semitism in the city.

No, I don't think he can stamp it out, and I honestly don't think that he desires to, because of the way that he carried on his campaign and the rhetoric that he not only himself made, but allowed others to make who were his supporters.

So I don't necessarily think he can stamp it out.

And I condemn anybody not having the freedom to worship in the way that they would like to worship.

I don't like those type of.

Actions being taken, the same as I don't want Christian's ridicule.

So I don't like what's happening, and I don't think he is the person who will actually stamp that out.

Again, this is why I said, I don't feel like you can meet a socialist or a communist halfway.

I just don't.

But again, I have.

To trust the people in power and just hope that our president and our vice president and anyone else in his administration that has the power to actually maybe make a difference, they actually come back this very strongly and harshly.

Shamiker have got to obviously ask you about the Epstein files still going on, the story that refuses to die.

You know, there's a lot of people say, well, the average American isn't interested in this stuff.

Donald Trump says it's the Democrats basically trying to rework the Russian hoax and now it's the Epstein hoax.

Do Americans care about this?

And will the release of these files do you think put an end to this matter?

Or is it just going to keep the train rolling on down the tracks?

You know, the Epstein files remind me of Baba's kids.

You know, it doesn't die, it multiplies like it's just not going anywhere.

And no, I don't think the average America American actually cares about the files.

I think for most Americans.

They care about living, being able to afford where they live, being able to afford food and gas.

I think that's the average American.

I think those of us in the media and on social.

Media maybe we have a little bit more interest simply because we're inquisitive, or as what some people would say, we're nosy.

We just want to know.

I want to know.

I'm waiting for the fowls to come out.

But no, I don't think the average American is concerned, and I don't think it should be at the top of the list because it's not the concern of the average American.

They want to be able to live and take care of themselves and their children.

I think that's really what the focus should be on.

And Shamika, Donald Trump named Bill Clinton and others did that.

Where do your Democrat friends sit in this world?

Would they be surprised to learn anything about Dylon Hillary Clinton or is that just given that there was some pretty odd goings on with that couple.

No, I think they would be concerned, but as as they do so often, they would make excuses for them, so I don't think the.

Concern would last long.

They would find a way.

To spend it, and they would find a way to make their heroes or their so called heroes look good again.

For me, I would love to.

Know if Bill Clinton was there, because I always say I have a ratchet little girl living on the inside of me who's just nosy, who likes drama and controversy, and I want.

To see it.

But for the people who actually love Bill Clinton, they'll actually find an excuse if it comes out that he was involved in any way.

Fantastic Shamika.

Michelle.

Always great to chat to you.

Thanks so much.

I will chat again very soon.

Michelle.

There in North Carolina after the break, Caroline Marcus Will had more to say on our beloved E Safety Commissioner Julie Inman Grant in a technic.

Welcome back.

You're watching Outsiders with Censorship star Rwandan E Karen Queen, Rita Panahee and me Caroline sell It of the takedown Marcus I revealed earlier this week here on sky News our very own e Safety boss Julie Inman Grant was being summoned to testify before US Congress about the fact that she poses a threat to the free speech of Americans.

Vand Grant had been sent a letter calling her a zealot for global takedowns and demanding she front up within a fortnight.

Our scoop made headlines here and around the world.

But before you get too excited, the request for her to appear is voluntary for now, at least Republican and close Trump allied.

Jim Jordan is the congressman and chair of the Judicial comm Committee who penned the letter, and when I asked him on the US report on Friday if he'd heard back yet from the East Safety Commissioner, he said she's left him on red as Julie Edmand Grant agreed to your request yet.

No, she hasn't, but you know she knows how to get to the United States.

We have a first Amendment that we take pretty darn seriously.

She certainly does know how to get to the United States.

Not only is our own censorship Commissar, as Elon Musk nicknamed her, a dual American citizen.

She was recently exposed for racking up more than four hundred and twenty five thousand dollars flying to eleven countries with accompanying staff in the past three years, all at the taxpayer's expensive course, And as Congressman Jordan pointed out, she's just been to the US to meet with fellow global censorship enthusiasts at Stanford University in September.

Now that's the same institution that Congressman Jordan's committee found had played a key role in enabling the US government to covertly silence American voices to influence the twenty twenty election.

So what's one more trip back to her homeland to face the music.

I'm considering the letter.

It is its voluntary, but I do know that it's interesting that there is discussion about using extra territorial powers to consider bringing me to the US when I'm being targeted for using extraterritorial powers.

In that interview with ten in Van, Grant rejects her conduct has undermined anyone's freedom of speech.

Ours as Australians, but also Americans.

We have accepted did geor blocking, which means no, I have, never have and never will asked for global regulation of the internet.

Excuse me, you've never asked for global regulation of the Internet.

You literally ordered X and Meta, that's Facebook, take down videos in their entirety and said, and I quote, we expect them to remove this expeditiously within the next twenty four hours.

We know that every minute counts, and the more this content is up there, the more it is reshared, and we need to stem that.

And this is the person tasked with policing so called misinformation.

She can't even be truthful about her own conduct.

Inmand Grant ended up dropping her case against X to have graphic footage of the stabbing of Sydney Bishop mar Murray Emmanuel globally removed from the platform.

And of course videos depicting terrorism are abhorrent.

Any reasonable person would agree.

The problem is where censorship leads, and it.

Always starts off.

Oh, we want to limit this harmful content.

And look, we all understand that, but it never stops there.

It glows to censorship of political speech.

When you look at history, it is never the good guys who are for censorship.

It is always the bad guys.

And just look at the other content that immigrant has already tried to have removed.

This year, she lost a case against a Canadian activist known as Billboard Chris after ordering the takedown of his tweet criticizing the appointment of transgender activist Teddy Cook to a World Health Organization panel.

But her work is not done.

On Friday, she's set for a showdown in the Federal court with Selene Baumgarden, who will join us on Outsiders next a gaze against Grumor's who posted a fifty three second clip on x I.

Posted a video exposing a Melbourne primary school that had a queen club.

A queen club for kids eight to twelve.

Less than a week after I posted that, it was taken down at the best of our e Safety Commissioner Julie Imman grant all.

The information that Boemgarden had shared in her video about that school club and its adult organizer was publicly available.

Yet she was.

Issued with the lotus informing her that her post appeared to intimidate and harass the complainant and it was geoblogged, meaning no one in Australia could view it.

Bomgarden won an appeal against the E Safety Commissioner in the Administrative Tribunal, but now inmand Grant has appealed that and it's back in court.

Although I can safely say after this experience, it's very unsettling the type of people that we have in control in this country.

I'll just say that.

You can say that again, terrivic.

Thanks so much, Caroline.

Well, as Caroline said, Selin Bumgarten, is he in the studio with us, Selene, great to see you as always, thanks for coming into the studio next week.

You're back in court.

So, as Caroline explained, all you did was post something online that was publicly available anyway, and it was to do with the school and to do with LGBT courses or whatever.

But you won the case.

But E the Safety Commissioner, they have very deep pockets.

Clearly she has a deep travel expense pockets.

Four hundred and twenty five thousand dollars.

Money appears to be no problem.

So this is they just take you back to court and just go again.

Yeah.

Correct, So she spent upwards we believe of one hundred and twenty thousand so far on the case.

Why they're appealing it, we're not too sure because it was pretty set in stone that their informal notice scheme is unlawful.

It acts outside of the Online Safety Act, which is the legislation that the office has to adhere to.

Why she's challenging it, we have no idea, but we're happy to fight it as long as long as we need to because we feel like free speech is very important.

Absolutely, just explain that distinction.

I know we've talked about it on outside as before.

But these notices that you get that are just you just get a notice, take this tweet down or what works down or whatever.

How does it work?

So what happens is someone puts in a complaint to E Safety for whatever reason, and then if E Safety deems it fit to remove the content, they send what's called an informal notice to the social media company, so meta X things of that nature.

They're informal notices, but they're dressed up as takedown notices, I guess as a way to explain it.

So they come across as very intimidating to these social media companies.

They feel like they have no choice but two CeNSE of the content and a lot of the time the content creator never even gets informed.

So if it wasn't for X notifying me that they had GEO blocked the content, I wouldn't have known.

Meta never contacted me, never got anything from Meta.

So yeah, if it wasn't for X's process of notifying the user, we have no idea.

So you know, and then in court you established that this tool or device that the Safety Commissioner is using is actually outside scope of the app Yes.

And now that is now being and that's now being challenged, so her office and her saying no, what we're doing is lawful.

So we'll see what they have to.

You're a new mum.

You've got to go down to Melbourne and you've got to devote more time to this because of the appeal.

You're fighting for free speech on behalf of every Australian who you know.

And parental rights to know what's going on in schools.

Absolutely, how do you hope this turns out?

Well?

I hope that the Federal Court coincide with the tribunal and uphold the decision.

If not, then myself and the Free Speech Union, who aren't representing me this time around, but they are still in my corner, we'll probably look to take this to the High Court.

All these decisions from the Safety Commissioners seem to come from the one direction, always very ideological, always very less.

I would say, hard left.

How do you see this body operating?

Because it is supposed to be there to protect children, that's what it was formed for, but it's morphed into something entirely different.

Couldn't agree more, couldn't agree more.

I think what E Safety started out as was quite reputable.

It's obviously a body that's meant to protect children online from things like cyberbulling and extreme abuse material.

I personally believe matters like that can be handled by the police, because as we've seen now, the Safety Office has morphed into this ideological lobby.

They are supported by organizations such as ACON, which is Australia's largest LGBT XYZ organization, so they have a vested interest in what E Safety do and it just feels like it's impossible for them to stay impartial at this point.

Carlin Selene, you heard that in my editorial where I played a bit of a Julian mcgrant's interview with Channel ten.

She rejects the fact that anything she has done has undermined the free speech of anyone, including Australians.

How do you respond to that?

I think it's yeah, it's very confusing how she can say that, because she, as you pointed out, obviously wants to censor just normal, everyday, regular users of content that she deems unfit.

I'm actually quite glad that she's been summoned to the States.

Whether she'll go not too sure, but we all know you don't you don't mess with their First Amendment, So we'll see how.

We'll see how that turns out.

What was the actual problem with your post, because as far as I can tell from the case and what I've write about it, it was the fact that someone complained, presumably the woman who organizes the club.

I don't know if she even identifies as a woman.

I don't, I have no idea, but presumably that is the problem that Julian mcgrant had with it, because this is a club, as you say, for eight to twelve year olds, a queer club.

Yes, so it would have been deemed a cyberbly against the teacher.

My personal opinion, if you don't want to be quote unquote cyberablly, maybe don't start a club that revolves around sexuality for chill ldren.

It's not a not a great idea.

And as it was stated before, all the information that I posted was public to begin with.

It was the school's newsletter, it was the teacher's Instagram profile, all public.

I just packaged it up nicely.

I did add my personal two cents at the end.

You know where I say, I don't think this club is appropriate in any school, let alone a primary school where sexuality is.

The you know, the.

You know the factor as to whether these kids can go to this club or not.

So yeah, if it's deemed a cyberbullying, I.

Grow identify by any children opposed and you know the target of it at all.

I watched I watched your video.

So it's quite extraordinary that something like that could be seen as harmful enough to be banned.

What grounds are they appealing this exactly?

What are they seeking to establish.

That their process was lawful?

Unfortunately I can't go into the ins and outs of the submissions this time around, being the Federal court it's you know, everything's kept on the hushush until after the day, but after that we should be able to say more about what was submitted.

It must be very expensive exercise for you to continue to fight for this.

Why do you and what happens if you lose?

I'm big on principle.

If I'm with you, I think free speech is very very important considering the age that we live in.

And as I said before, I'm also a huge believer in parental rights and saving kids from being indoctrinated with all this Rainbow mafia stuff.

As you said, I'm a member of Gays against groomers.

So it says it in the title where a group full of LGBs who are against the TQ plus I guess the way we could say it, and a huge portion of that is keeping ideology out of schools.

So free speech.

Combined with no ideological indoctrination of children, that's where I stand.

I said, no one can accuse you of being homophobic, that is the incredible thing.

But also, how does I mean by their own definition, how does suppose it alleged cyberbullying or whatever against the teacher?

How does that fall into the re myth?

Of protecting kids, which is what this entirely safe is.

It seems like they're protecting the wrong side.

Ye, anyway, can I just also ask, I mean, it's not the only area that we've seen the Karen or E Safety Commissioner active in, but she does seem to have a preoccupation with trans issues.

I remember Jasmine Sussex, the birth breastfeeding advocate who had her tweet taken down for saying but essentially men can't breastfeed.

I mean, duh, So where do you think this comes from?

Why is this preoccupation with this single issue when we see you know, just hideous material online much of a targeted children.

How doesn't the focus.

On that acon ACON is the largest LGBT lobby group in this country and E Safety are heavily embedded with ACON.

A lot of their modules online are created by ACON.

ACON started out as a reputable organization used to be aids counseled in New South Wales.

But once gay marriage was was one and you they were sitting around twiddling their thumbs looking for a new cause.

Upcomes trans.

Lots of money in trans there's.

A lot of materials that they are distributing schools as well.

So I personally, I would say the ties between e Safety and Acorn go very very deep.

So far as you know, Julian Grant's also good friends with Teddy Cook, the woman, sorry not the man, the woman that.

Billboard Chris criticized, So it was no wonder.

That she went after friend a biological woman who identified as a man.

And Acorn has a lot of ties to government.

I've done exposed stories where they are behind cervical cancer campaigns the women.

So do they call them women?

They don't?

They the whole point they say front highs.

Yeah, exactly, they use that in my story.

Sorry to bring that up for the Sunday Morning and Morning folks, Let's ask you about the under sixteen thing.

Now, your daughter is too young to have a sexion.

Wait nine months old.

As you know, you grew up in there in the social media era.

Social media is a key part of your education childhood.

How do you view and obviously is completely separate issue to what we're just talking about and the legal case, but just as an individual, what's your take on the under sixteen ban that is being starts on December tenth.

Okay, well, I think you'd be hard pressed to find people that don't acknowledge the dangers of social media.

There's obviously a danger with young people being glued to their phones seeing god knows what content and that affecting their mental health.

I don't think anyone is denying that.

What I do think is a massive problem is when government steps in and acts like a parent.

No one should be parenting the nation's children.

Besides the parents of these children.

They decide, they should decide when the child is old enough for social media, what they use social media for a lot of time, social media is used to contact family members that might be overseas.

So you're completely shutting.

The door on a generation of children, which five years ago, when COVID was a thing, you were telling them to stay online.

So to me, you can't say that this is for the children when backflip like this and we all know, well we know, I think discord isn't part of the ban.

Discord is an issue, and when you ban sites like YouTube it could be very educational.

Absolutely, Yeah, I think that's a key point as well.

I've had a young fourteen fifteen year old girl the other day talking at a function about that very point, that she uses social media and YouTube, et cetera, to stay ahead of her teaching, ahead of the class that's getting such great results and she's going to be denied that.

Seleen, bumgut and always great to have you back here on outside is keep up the fight, good luck.

Thanks during the week and we'll want to hear all about that.

And of course you can follow Selene on Selene against the Machine on X and elsewhere Selene.

Yes, Selene against the Machine on X, Instagram and YouTube and keep.

Up the great work.

So many Australians are relying on you to do such a great job.

Selene, thanks so much.

After the break we're going to look at and it's so many contenders Wally over the week, Yes, it's time for our Wally of the week and all those popped up in various categories.

If he was an actor, he'd be taking all the top gongs.

Here he is.

If you haven't heard of this six seven thing, it's the thing that kids are doing that basically means nothing.

That Alba always likes to appeal to those future voters, even though they won't be allowed on social media.

So I don't know where he hopes they're going to see him, but anyway, have a listen.

You'll have local kids stand up and they'll say six to seven, six seven, it's a big thing, striving teacher's crazy.

Well six seven, what does it mean?

It means nothing, a bit like the pamphlet that they put out.

It is a policy about nothing, a bit like the six to seven phenomenon that we're seeing kids engage with.

One young kid in the Prime Minister's office came up with that one.

He's trying so hard to appeal to this group of people, maybe their parents.

I don't know what he's attending.

He did it five times.

He's so hit, just just to drive the point home.

He is so cringe as the kids say, that is just embarrassing.

He's supposed to be a Prime minister.

And come on, Caroline, who have you got for us?

My wally of the week are the winners of the Album of the Year at the ARIA Awards.

They're called Amil and the Snippers.

And this is the speech that that lead singer.

Gave as the new Prime Minister of Australia.

I would like to say all immigrants welcome.

I'd like to say land back, the.

Dolls going up.

And every pub gets a million dollars.

So all immigrants welcome, but we have to give the land back.

I mean, make it make sense.

I just don't get immigrants go.

I know, the immigrants arrive and then they give the land back.

That's how it works, So come on in and then.

Give the land.

I just wasn't sure if this was a parody, because it seems like it should be a parody.

Like, well, the whole is a parody.

I mean, who even knew they were on or gives us stuff?

I mean, really, the whole thing is a shamozzle.

It is jumped the shark so long ago.

It's such a meaningless awards night these days.

So it's a little bit sad though, because you would think we would have something that is worthy of our musicians.

Seventies, eighties, nineties, even Australia was one of the great rock and roll leaders in the world.

Such from se many great groups.

Sadly they seem to have disappeared.

But anyway, Ammel and the Sniffers, if that's your thing.

Who sipping?

Who knows vinyl?

I don't know who knows reta.

Sorry, Well, let's have a look at what's happened in New York.

We've got a conservative influencer who is going to be suing Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg for botching their case.

Now, Alvin Bragg is a clown, ineffective, soft on crime.

And this entire incident was caught on camera.

I don't know if we've got a footage of it, but Savannah Craven and Tayo was talking to a woman about abortion and it was quite a lengthy discussion that seemed to be quite civil before this pro abortion enthusiast just punched her in the head, causing all sorts of injuries.

And because Alvin Bragg watched the case, she got away with it.

So I'm glad that there's people now actually taking some action and trying to hold these bureaucrats who are highly political and highly incompetent to account.

Absolutely.

Let's have a look, Caroline, you've got another one for us.

Oh look, there's no real short of I think of.

Let's see what else have we got here.

There was a mum of four who branded a man a word that I can't repeat on television.

It's a bit of a homophobic slur.

But the man was her alleged attacker, and she was the one that got convicted of a hate crime for calling him.

So she she defends herself exactly.

Now this is a UK story.

She's a mom of four.

Again, we can't say the word.

We put it up on the screen there, partly redacted.

And she had a rant to her friend about someone who attacked her, and then she got convicted of a hate crime for using out word the wally.

There is not only the British justice system, but it's also the friend because it was the friend.

Suppose a friend who went and reported her to the police for using this word.

After she has suffered this alleged attack, someone goes and does that, and then you've got a criminal justice system that is so broken and insane that they pursue that and convict I mean, really, what can you say about the UK?

It's lost.

Absolutely, let's decide.

I'm sorry, I can't go past six seven.

But maybe Amal and the sniffers.

Maybe Amala and the sniffers.

Do you know what today I couldn't give a staff.

You two decide what do you reckon?

Look, let's go with a real prime minister, not the pretend prime minister.

The Ario would winners her because he's always our favorite Wallly.

Isn't he very nice?

But there's even bigger Wallies yet to come, And that's of course our celebrities in a tick.

Yes, well, celebrities don't come much stupid, in my opinion than Guy Pierce, the Australian.

I mean this bloke seriously.

We saw him a few months ago wandering around with his kafir around his neck.

He put out a tweet yesterday day before where I'll just read it to you and you can make up your mind what you think of him.

But he says, I've never been so disgusted by a group of people in my life as I am by Israelis.

Now, imagine if he'd said that about I don't know any other group, any ethnic group, any identity group, he would be shunned, and rightly so.

I've never been so disgusted by a group of people in my life as I am by Israelis, says Guy Pears.

If you happen to be investing in any of his films, I would pull the plug immediately.

The guy is an embarrassment to this country.

Caroline.

There's such a double standard, as you allude to, when it comes to discussing Israel and Israelis with any other group.

I mean, he's mirroring all Israelis, and I would argue Jews as well, because it is the Jewish nation, and that is the reason I say a lot of peop would agree there is such an obsession of fanaticism with Israel and the standard that no other country is held to account for.

The video that he posted and he made this comment about was from Al Jazeera about how the IDF soldiers had shot a fifteen year old boy in the West Bank two weeks ago.

It was I mean, the IDF's justification was that they were being attacked with rocks and people were firing at them, so they opened fire and some people got killed.

Now, not all Israelis agree even with the actions of the IDF, but he's not presenting any other side, and I don't see him ever saying I'm disgusted with the actions of Palestinians for what her masks.

Not to equivocate between hermus and the IDF, but from what her mask did on October seven and has done since to both Israelis and their own people.

He never brings up.

He never tried to make that mirror against a whole group of people.

Well, or Caroline go through his tweets, I doubt you'll find anything about Christians being slaughtered in Sudan or Nigeria.

I doubt you'll find much any protest about all the dreadful things that happen around the world.

But he has to call this a vile act setting humanity backwards, my utter disregard, and that he accused the Israelis of having utter disregard and disdain for Palestinian life, and that he's disgusted by them.

I mean, the bloke, as I said, I know where my discuss lies.

Rita.

Well, when you say I've never been so disgusted by a group of people in my life as I am by Israelis.

You're engaging in collective guilt.

There.

You are painting every Israeli with the behavior that, like Caroline said, they may not agree with.

And there's a diversity of opinion in Israel, even about what's happening in Gaza and the treatment of Palestinian so to just and I wonder if he came across in Israeli in his everyday life, how he would treat them, if he actually is disgusted by them, whether he would just assume they hold certain beliefs and treat them accordingly, or whether he would actually treat them like a human being and see where they stand on any given issue.

Because that tweet seems to indicate the former.

Yeah, and so many of the pro Palestin in an act of his crowd that their main cash criers, or don't you know, no collective punishment for the people of Gaza, which is not what Israel has been doing anyway.

But put that aside, and what is he doing here?

He's collectively punishing all Israelis, and many Jews would take this as a slide against them as well.

I do, so I the hypocrites as usual.

As I say, if you're investing in any films and his name pops up on the call sheet, I'd be pulling my money immediately.

Let's talk about Megan markle oh Ceta.

So apparently she's broken royal protocol, but really she's broken any sense of rationality.

And this woman is out of control.

She's now having her titles announced as she walks into empty rooms where there might just be one other person there.

I mean, it is absurd.

She actually has done absolutely nothing to earn these titles.

Other than obviously Mary Harry.

But she fled the royal family.

She doesn't fulfill her duty to the royal family, she doesn't do any public service.

And yet she's got these titles and she.

Doesn't just love them.

She doesn't just put them on her brands and all her marketing.

She has staff announcer as she walks into empty rooms.

Well, I saw a photo of her the other day where she was posing in the same similar outfit and same pose as Diana again.

And let me just say, Megan, I danced with Princess Diana.

Let me tell you, Meghan, you are none.

I can tell you that for sure.

She is just insufferable, isn't she.

I wish that the Royal family would take away their titles like they did with Prince Andrew, because I think they were crimes are almost comparable.

I think they will.

It's so bad.

Carolina Ariana Grande and Cynthia Arrivo, they've been on this tour to promote the latest Wicked film and they're just Their conduct together is so strange.

There have been so many examples of this weird relationship with them, but take a look at their interaction on a French podcast.

I was just spending time with you is good, the pleasure getting to know you, and I hope you will be their best manner.

I will be and I hope you will be too.

And it's then.

The privilege of my life and I love you, and yeah, I hope you'll learn my French be one of the things.

Then then you're let it.

Oh my god, please spare me.

I mean the host, poor Caroline, the host, even her face was like, what is going on?

No one is dying.

They are They're on another level.

And in fact or I just want them to have a sandwich.

I like them to have several sandwiches.

And from whatever it is, the.

Film must current be that great.

They must be desperately needing the publicity, because they're certainly getting it, getting the publicity by the way they're carrying on.

That's it for outside as we will see you next Sunday morning at nine am.

Going to be a fantastic show.

Got lots of planned for you.

But during the week, make sure you watch Rip to Panahee every night at eleven o'clock.

Then on Friday, that's the big one.

You go out on Thursday, or you go out on Saturday, because Friday night, you devote the world, according to run In at seven, US Report with Caroline at eight and Rita that's it.

We'll see you next week.

Bye.