[SPEAKER_01]: All right, welcome back, everybody to another episode of Making Monsters.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Taylor Doll.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's been about a month, a little over a month since I've done a podcast now, letting things breathe for a little bit and can't get going, but now we feel like we're in the flow of football.

[SPEAKER_01]: And today I'm joined by you know, my goal, a key host of Golik and Golik on fan dual sports network.

[SPEAKER_01]: My thanks for hopping all with me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely great to talk to you Taylor.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're close.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're in the thick of NFL preseason college football starts in like, sixteen days, so life is good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, all the over reactions and under reactions on Twitter are officially happening for all of the teams everywhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: If people do not know you, you are kind of doing your rounds in training camp and you were at the Bears camp and you were able to talk to Colson Levelin, Kyler Gordon, DJ Moore, we'll get into some of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: stuff that you were able to talk to them about and the bears in general.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you also sat down with peanut Tilman, Charles Tilman, who is a great and very loved and the bears world.

[SPEAKER_01]: So let's start there a little bit, just being able to do something like that with Charles who we all think should be in the Hall of Fame or should be in the Hall of Fame eventually.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, the amount of times he's mentioned during the football season when someone punches out of all that alone, I feel like it has a little bit of significance to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when you become a term like that, that's so ubiquitous around the sport, that something that people teach and work on, that's when you know you've made it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, getting to do that, I was making the training camp rounds of Bleach Report and getting to work with a bunch of guys that were former greats at their teams, you know, Santana Moss with the Washington Commanders Victor Cruz with the Giants John Abraham and Atlanta and [SPEAKER_00]: peanut when I was in Chicago and I thought the the coolest part about being around peanut was one just how humbly is came into it so prepared was so fired up to talk about that team but how much respect the players have for him clearly when Kyler Gordon came by we finished up talking to him and there was this great moment that was kind of on air kind of off air [SPEAKER_00]: where the two of them just started talking about a rep that Kyler had at practice where he went out there and a receiver gave him late hands and he ended up interfering and peanuts like you know you didn't need to do that then you know you saw X Y and Z and was was given him this game that just you could tell was hard for him to turn off as a guy that did it at such a high level for so long.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought seeing how engaged he still was and how willing a guy like Kyler Gordon who is a great player now in his own writing is so important to this bear's defense.

[SPEAKER_00]: was so like, oh, yes, differential, the peanut understood exactly what he was talking about and clearly relished the chance to get some feedback from a guy that had done that at a really high level.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love that stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love watching like older players and newer players interact and just the games changed, but they're still all the fundamental things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Charles told me, obviously, like you said, a big part of the bear is history in general, but that position group is somebody that a lot of people talk about.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's really fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: Also FBI agent.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's always kind of crazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Crazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we so much transition now for more players that become owners or by soccer team.

[SPEAKER_00]: And one that's like, now I'm going to come and become a fed is just older world.

[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, so let's get into that one first Kyler Gordon personally.

[SPEAKER_01]: One of my favorite bears right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: I actually just got his jersey this off season.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'll be repping that at some point this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Kyler man, spider man, all of those kind of references people use because of obvious reasons.

[SPEAKER_01]: But one of the things he talks about when you were in your interview with you, he was talking about Denis Allen's defense, which is going to be a huge topic this year because [SPEAKER_01]: The Denis Allen head coaching era didn't go well, but the Denis Allen defensive coordinator era was very good in his time in the NFL.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so he did talk about one of the things that kind of popped out to me in the interview is the importance of knowing every position.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he was talking about Denis Allen wanting them to know everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: And all of the different spots, you know, you talk about him playing nickel corner, but he mentioned all of the different things that Denis Allen's having him learn.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it gives you, it gives these players a vision for the field that they wouldn't have otherwise known.

[SPEAKER_01]: So think that, that communication that's so important in the corner back room gets elevated once that happens.

[SPEAKER_01]: So chat a little bit about that and what Kyler was talking about and just may like what he sees and done in silence defense so far that during camp.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that kind of stuff gives you ownership over a defense.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's new for everybody this year.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we've heard, right, attacking is the word that's first out of everyone's mouth, the big difference between that, what they were doing with flu last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I've always viewed defensive backs as small offensive linemen, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Both position groups.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's four to five guys working together on a new given play.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot of communication and you're going backwards doing something unnatural against some of the best athletes in the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: What that always required, and I remember this from, you know, offensive line coaches and Harry Heastan who spent time with the Chicago Bears and multiple stops as the online coach always stressed, you need to understand the entire picture.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because none of us are working in isolation.

[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't pitchers versus batters.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have to know what the guy next to us wants and needs, what we want and need from the guy next to us.

[SPEAKER_00]: because that's the only way you're going to defeat the complexity that offense is throw at you now defensively up front what defensive lines are able to do for alignment you only beat that with that communication understanding because that allows you to anticipate if I know and understand what the guy playing corner next to me with the guy playing safety next to me if I'm playing nickel in the slot [SPEAKER_00]: If I know what he's anticipating and what he's seeing and can see it and anticipate it the same way, we've got a better chance to pass routes off.

[SPEAKER_00]: Find guys in the right area and communicate and solve problems on the fly that inevitably are going to be things that you can't cover and practice.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that sort of holistic approach to these position groups in particular is invaluable.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it'll be really fun to watch interesting to watch a Dennis Island defense.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a defense that wasn't bad last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: There was a lot of good pieces, a lot of good things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Things kind of started to fall apart late in the year.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think some of that's just, there was a lot of everybody knows.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was kind of a disaster in there and it started to unravel a little bit from a, I mean, he refluzed being gone.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do think that he refluzed the head coaching side, obviously wasn't there, but defensively he did a lot of good things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's not like you're taking the defense that was one of the worst in the league last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: He just has to, you're just hoping that some of the mistakes, some of the, maybe undisciplined things, the Tyrex Stevenson is what everybody's going to point to during that Washington game.

[SPEAKER_01]: Some of those things are eliminated, even before that play, everyone goes to that Tyrex Stevenson's taunting thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: But right before that, they let a easy pass to Terry McLore and just for like, fourteen yards half of that, that doesn't happen and you're not even in the Hail Mary position.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do think it will be fun to kind of see this Dennis Island defense and one of the things that Kyler said to you was that he said they want to be feared and that's kind of the mindset.

[SPEAKER_01]: I loved that because that is such a Chicago bear thing to say when you talk about the nineteen eighty five fair Super Bowl you talk about people feared that defense and to bring that back to Chicago I think it is important.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think defensive players, I'm the son of a defensive player, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: My dad played nine years in the NFL.

[SPEAKER_00]: I did tackle was a linebacker in college, like they want to attack.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's an aggressive.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, offense is creation defenses destruction at its core.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we saw this last year in the division, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Jeff Haffley comes over from Boston College to the Green Bay Packers and [SPEAKER_00]: Let's those guys go out there and play a little more man coverage let the front seven pin barriers back and get up field and be disruptive and I think when you have guys that understand what they're being asked to do understand that there's got to be a plan there's got to be cohesion, but also give them opportunities to go be aggressive [SPEAKER_00]: It becomes a lot easier to impose that kind of mentality.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can be feared doing a lot of things on defense, but as a former offensive player and a former offensive lineman, I was always much more put off by defensive lineman that we're getting up field that we're getting off and trying to be disruptive versus two gapers that you couldn't move.

[SPEAKER_00]: Linebackers that were waiting to read and react, you want to go and dictate the terms, no matter the side of the ball you're on.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Dennis Allen giving them that opportunity the way we've seen him do it for defenses during his NFL career.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's huge.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, the bears last year were tenth and takeaways, which I don't know if a lot of people haven't realized that because of there wasn't many wins that came along with those ten takeaways.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, the tenth and takeaways, twenty four total during the season.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that seems like from what Kyler's saying and from what we're hearing around camp is also a focus, which every, I feel like defensive coordinators going to say that in a sense of, yeah, take the blow away.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's an important thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the way that, and I think Charles Tillman, you know, tell him and use the word swarms, warming the ball.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's not just trying to get the ball when it's in the air.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's punching the ball out.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's making sure that if the running back has the ball that that's where everybody's eyes are going defensively.

[SPEAKER_01]: So when it comes to the offensive side of the ball, what do you gain plan when you know you're playing a defense where all they want to do is get the ball out of your hands?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, it's a great point like turnovers are on defense are a lot like, I don't wanna say playing the lottery because it's not that degree of randomness, but it's a lot more like, you know, preparing for a test.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know exactly what questions are gonna be on it, but you just gotta give yourself the best chance and that is film study and being at the right places and then to your point and emphasis on how you attack the ball when you get there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you hope we see it all the time, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Teams usually regress to the mean years after they've had big tone over years.

[SPEAKER_00]: And usually they don't turn the ball over much that tends to find its way back to the middle.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a preparation meets opportunity kind of thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: But as an offense, it means, hey, we've got to spend added time on ball secured on our side.

[SPEAKER_00]: You see that harped on in pre practice for every team that's ever existed.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, for offensive linemen, it means, hey, you got to be chasing or running down to the ball, picking guys off the pile within reason, because we know they flag that stuff a lot more now.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you've got to do what you can to protect your guys and always have that as a point of emphasis.

[SPEAKER_00]: And for both sides of the ball, you're job to try and make the other side think more than they want to.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you're playing a team that tends to jar the ball loose more, you're going to spend more time in ban with on offense, worrying about that as opposed to thinking about the things you want to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's what it's funny.

[SPEAKER_01]: I heard a quote from somebody that worked for that covered Ben Johnson and Detroit and the way he said it was Ben Johnson that he has offense will prepare for four things but show you fourteen different things because or a defense that's how you throw things off into your point.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you do.

[SPEAKER_01]: You want to confuse them as much as possible.

[SPEAKER_01]: So let me ask you this as the as the games evolved obviously both on offense but also on defense.

[SPEAKER_01]: That nickel corner spot, we're seeing more and more of where you're seeing that nickel corner out on the field.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that when you mention this to Kyler of the corner back room in Chicago, not being on the rankings and the top ten or whatever it was.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I feel like a lot of that is because those times are not including that nickel corner in there, they're talking about those two outside guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Jalen Johnson obviously, one of the better ones in the league.

[SPEAKER_01]: But across from them, there's question marks with Tyreek, is it going to be him as it's going to be chorale?

[SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that do you think they don't evaluate that nickel quarter as much as they should?

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that'll change at all?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, again, when we do these lists, it's usually least common denominator.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I can understand them, not necessarily factoring that in, but there's no doubt the nickel has become massive, especially in a league where we're kind of seeing that tight end.

[SPEAKER_00]: Pendulum swing back again, teams are getting a lot bigger, especially in the NFC, the emphasis on the ground game, partially led by, you know, teams like Detroit, San Francisco, what you've seen in Philadelphia and root to a Super Bowl last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to try and use that advantage at personnel and the fact that defense has gotten lighter and leaner in the box to try and beat up on guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so having a nickel out there that can simultaneously grapple with some of the tight ends that are better past catches around the league, even in division, thinking of a guy like Sam Laporta and Detroit still, Cole Comet and Chicago and the challenge he poses to opposing defense is what they hope Coast and Lovelin can be.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have to have a guy that can simultaneously [SPEAKER_00]: do that, but also come down and support in the run.

[SPEAKER_00]: And having guys that can do both is huge.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, I think more and more teams, we talked about this for a team like a lot on the national level, the Pittsburgh Steelers, you know, what Jalen Ramsey could potentially afford them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, hey, maybe you don't have them play outside corner all the time, but having that kind of flexibility and the slot that they've desperately needed [SPEAKER_00]: in a division where, hey, you're trying to beat the Baltimore Ravens.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Baltimore Ravens were under top monkey and made their living with tight ends.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just think that chess match between what you've got going on in the nickel and what you've got going on tight end around the league is one that makes that position huge.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've one more I want to ask on the defensive side before we switch over to that offensive side of the ball because you obviously being a former offensive lineman that the trenches in general are so important and I think sometimes undervalued and we and Chicago now know how important the offensive line is but also just having those especially in interior defensive lineman I think you have even when you have some good guys on the outside having the the confidence of being able to create that interior past rush and help the guys on the outside a little bit run stuff or things like that [SPEAKER_01]: And so defensively for the bears they have Andrew Billings obviously last year who got hurt the moment he got hurt the the run the run stopping kind of struggled quite a bit but he'll be back they add obviously Grady Jared aside from a Javan dexter who I personally was a big fan of when the bears drafted him in the first place and then this year they drafted a who I say is the better shemar shemar Turner [SPEAKER_01]: Um, just kind of throw shade up the other, you know, they'll be on their smart.

[SPEAKER_01]: But so there's pieces there and you kind of have to all click you want that all to fit together and how that Dennis Allen defenses really do kind of take with that past rush in the middle.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what are your thoughts on that with that in Grady Jared and from what you heard of what Kyla said about it front, what are you expecting up there?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, first off, you know, Giovanni Dexter, you're not alone.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was a guy when we talked to Peanut said was that the guy he thought could be a huge sort of not unsung hero, but maybe a guy that people weren't talking about as much who really could have an impact on this season.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's two full one.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of the common themes I saw around camp this year and was just talking about this with the keen and out on signing back in San Diego.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a fine Los Angeles with the chargers is [SPEAKER_00]: having a veteran in the room who is still simultaneous, like Grady Jarrett's been so disruptive on so many bad teams in Atlanta for so long, but has been consistent.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so having a vet who can come into that room for young guys and show them work habits on and off the field, how to carry yourself like a professional.

[SPEAKER_00]: how to then go out and translate out in the field.

[SPEAKER_00]: We heard so many young guys in this training camp tour talk about how much they benefited in so many ways from having that's like that in the room.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's even without the production.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think a huge part of that there.

[SPEAKER_00]: It just the emphasis in that room that's placed on guys that can be disrupted.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was Jervon's bag coming out of Florida was getting up field and being a disruptive player.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so [SPEAKER_00]: All those things I think are really important, but again, having guys that can come into a young room and help them be productive and learn the right way to go about their business while you're installing something new.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, everyone senses or kind of heightened is invaluable.

[SPEAKER_01]: definitely.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I think that that was part of my reasoning, even for Keenan Allen, some of the bear's fans the last couple days were freaking out because they're like, Oh, Keenan Allen's going back to the charters and they took that fourth pick and made it lap a conke and blah, blah, blah, rhyme polls loses again, but I feel like sometimes it's having a guy like Keenan and row Madunza has [SPEAKER_01]: out, just said it that how big like an important Kina Nalan was for him in his rookie season, certain getting him through certain just development, things like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Kina Williams said it was the best fighter saber he's ever played with.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so there may be that didn't always translate to touchdowns or yards last year, but to your point, sometimes that leadership and just what you learn off the field and the locker room that NFL side of things from event isn't important.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I kind of still defended having him last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't like if I want to know what last year looks like without Kina, honestly, but [SPEAKER_01]: I do want to switch over to the offense, Coastal Level, and you chatted with him to, let's start there because I think that was a kind of surprise pick for some people when it gets to pick ten, and they pick Coastal Level, and a lot of people thought if they were going tight in, they were going to go Tyler Warren, a lot of people even before were kind of saying no, because Coastal fits what Ben Johnson compliments Cole Comet a little bit more, I guess, is the best way to say it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you're thoughts initially of that pick for them, and thoughts of Coastal in general.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I think it's a great point about fitting what Ben wants to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think for me, I was more in the Tyler Warren camp than I was Colston coming out just because, you know, Tyler Warren, the size, the ambling reminded me so much of Gronk that maybe I couldn't look past my own biases, but Colston's such a dynamic receiver.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, we talked about that conversation, having multiple tight ends that can go out and affect you in that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Colston probably better blocker than he gets credit for, especially with some of the off-ball stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought, Cole, when he was used last year in protection in certain ways is a blocker.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also, it affords you a lot of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's what you expect from Notre Dame guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think he fits well on there and is coming in and out of every one, like his approach, work ethic, a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: further beyond his years than most rookies.

[SPEAKER_00]: They said they noticed pretty quickly in the offseason.

[SPEAKER_00]: Always in the right spots, always doing what we want him to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't got to tell him to go and do extra and work harder.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think you can buy that with what is one of the best skills of Ben Johnson is finding creative ways to deploy those guys that give defense.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're a point a lot to think about.

[SPEAKER_00]: There is no position on the field.

[SPEAKER_00]: that can do that better than tight end on offense in the modern NFL.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so he's a guy that is so multiple and is skill set and seems to have approached this the right way early on, taking in all the information that we know as a part of playing in this offense.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm very excited as the tight end duo seem to be becoming a bigger and bigger thing again in the NFL, the way that always seems pretty cyclical.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, one of the things I noticed the unofficial depth chart just released.

[SPEAKER_01]: They had it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was twelve personnel.

[SPEAKER_01]: They had both titans lifted as a twelve personnel format, which Ben Johnson also ended Detroit last year and twelve personnel third most in the NFL.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that was kind of a lot of people's like, well, he did this a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: Granted, I think that was only still like twenty seven percent, thirty percent or something like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But to your point, I think the you [SPEAKER_01]: The thing that's going to show us what Ben Johnson can be is his adaptability.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think Jerrigoff and Caleb Williams are very different quarterbacks.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you're going to have to see a change in that.

[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have David Montgomery and Jamera Gibbs in Chicago.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have different backs.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's going to be a little bit of an adjustment.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think with that too, I would expect a lot of time seeing Cole and Colston out on the field.

[SPEAKER_01]: Would you expect that too?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think you want your best players out there, especially in an offense that's going to be trying to help Caleb grow into that passing attack.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if those guys are a part of your best group of receivers now listen DJ is obviously going to be leading the charge on that what an incredible player he is with the ball on his hands.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know when we were out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: They've given him some reps at running back.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're just trying to find ways to get him the ball in the short area.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought you really saw Rome and Caleb's relationship blossom last year, even as the house was burning down late in the season.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if there's no doubt, hey, with Colin and Colson on the field, you have two guys that are two of our better past catchers than yeah, I won't be surprised to see a bunch of twelve personnel out there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the next one you talk to DJ Moore also, and I'm a big fan of DJ Moore.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think there were moments last year fans got a little, and their feelings about some of the way he was standing his body gestures and stuff on the sideline.

[SPEAKER_01]: I sometimes feel like we look too far into that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think last year was frustrating for a lot of people.

[SPEAKER_01]: People were judging the way I was acting on the couch.

[SPEAKER_01]: They'd probably be like, this girl is very angry person.

[SPEAKER_01]: But when you're talking about DJ, he used the word uncomfortable.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was not surprised by this at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: When I go back to January, when Ben Johnson was hired, I did a podcast with someone who covers the lines and has covered the lines for a long time.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, Ben Johnson's personality in camp and in practice is pissed off.

[SPEAKER_01]: that's how he is because he's a perfectionist and DJ kind of goes into that about the fizz asking you to be on the plus two hash mark and you're on the minus one hash mark he's going to pull you out and you're going to you're going to see that that is how I think just precise spend Johnson is and everything but how do you think this will work for a team that's coming off of last year where coaches didn't even make it through a full season and everything kind of seemed a little up and a little crazy Shane Washington and Phil like maybe he was putting in the work and a lot of areas that he was supposed to and then now you have a coach who is [SPEAKER_01]: making everybody uncomfortable, and pushing them to the limit.

[SPEAKER_01]: How do you think different players will take that differently?

[SPEAKER_01]: Or do you think at first before when's losses come, everybody's kind of embracing that?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, yeah, I think that's always kind of the difficult calculus in the NFL.

[SPEAKER_00]: We saw this for years with, I mean, God, you know, in division, Lions fan saw it with Mapotrisha, we're like, hey, [SPEAKER_00]: if you can't try and come in the former Bellic Act disciples, it always come in in a lot of cases, I think make the mistake of trying to go and push people to their limits, the way Bill would without the resume and without connecting with players in a way that shows them, hey, I care and I'm doing this because I want what's best for you, what's best for us.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you wanna come in and just be a task master, you're gonna lose guys pretty quick if the results don't show up early.

[SPEAKER_00]: The thing that gives you the chance for a long-term success is one, [SPEAKER_00]: everyone can look especially if you're a player in offense for the bears and I remember we did this hairy he's done again and I mentioned was with the bears when he came to Notre Dame we all looked and we said that guy's put guys into the pros from Tennessee when he was there before this he coach some of the best offensive lines in the NFL when he was the bears that first time with all in groups in that group so if you go and give yourself fully to the process of this person [SPEAKER_00]: great results have been on the other side and so if you're a bears offence a player you know what you were last year and you watched in the division twice a year exactly what that group put on tape and the biggest difference when I went I went back and watch when we were going out there watch a bunch of tape of both offenses from last year [SPEAKER_00]: And what you mentioned, like a lot of people harp on the past protection, injury down to the bears there.

[SPEAKER_00]: There were stretches where the past protection and the way those guys saw the field together was perfectly fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like above average in the NFL and the way they approached that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought like especially I watched a week's eleven through fourteen.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's some really strong past pro reps in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you look at the difference overall with the offense and if the attention to detail, everyone on the Lions offense understood where they needed to be, how they were going to get there.

[SPEAKER_00]: You had Jared coordinating the entire thing as the man on the field.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you had the offensive line that obviously went out there and kicked a lot of ass.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I thought that attention to deal was really what stuck out as opposed to the Bears offense where it felt like at times you were just calling plays as opposed to running an offense.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that difference is certainly from the playcars perspective.

[SPEAKER_00]: how you sequence it, how you set things up the way you approach it, but I think just as much, it's what we talked about with Tyler on defense, it's an attention to detail and an understanding enough, and that's the growing pains that are going through a practice right now of how these all fits together to make the offense we want to be a part of.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and that's what I mean watching last year there were a lot of times where wide receivers were in the same spot there was like plays ran multiple times in a row that you were like why we keep trying this it's not working the run game was a little bit of an issue and I think there's multiple factors into that but [SPEAKER_01]: I do think to your point there were moments where I think we we crap on the offensive line a lot because there was a lot of sex but some of those sex were on Caleb himself and I think those are all things that Ben Johnson is going to be focusing on this year because he's coming from a place where to your point that offensive line they're all just like [SPEAKER_01]: They were, it was a scary offensive line.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what you want to go against.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like we haven't had that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So speaking of that, that was one of the biggest focuses this last off season.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mike was, they didn't get Joe Toney.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you go and you get Jonah Jackson, who last year was not great, but with Ben Johnson, he was a very good player in Detroit.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then obviously Drew Dalman, who was one of the better centers in the NFL last year, then they draft, which I think some people may be surprised about this.

[SPEAKER_01]: But Aussie Trapillo is battling.

[SPEAKER_01]: Bracks and Jones were that left after his plot right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so you could potentially have four new offensive linemen in front of Caleb.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a couple things to that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Number one, you hope that with the Jotuni alone, like this isn't approved offensive line.

[SPEAKER_01]: But in addition, and now you have four new guys possibly in front of Caleb, that now you have to get the cohesiveness back, and I think they're working on that too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's something that's going to take time into the season like this thing to look perfect.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know Ben Johnson said we're further along now than we were in Detroit in twenty twenty two when he first got there and they're installing all this stuff, but like it's still going to take time.

[SPEAKER_00]: That many new guys who haven't had game reps working together.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be tough, but the things you mentioned there that give him a chance.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Jonah, I thought, when I went back and watched the games where he was healthy and available last year, better than I expected based on how people talked about that tenure.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think injury goes a long way and having a guy that understands what the coordinator and the offense want that plays in that interior for the offense is huge.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we saw that with Tyler Beatison, Washington last year where Dan Quinn brings him with him from Dallas to help out their rookie quarterback in Jaden Daniels.

[SPEAKER_00]: And things go pretty well, Tyler, not that, you know, he's not the most talented guy by any means, but a really solid veteran center for them to help the tons.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think in that regard, I know Jonas playing guard, but having someone along that interior that helps set that tone is huge.

[SPEAKER_00]: Joe's got championship pedigree from Everworld.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's been like, that guy understands how to do everything at the highest level.

[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: with Grady Jared on the other side.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's no disrespect to Grady, but Joe's one of the best offensive guards and football still.

[SPEAKER_00]: I split out to tackle.

[SPEAKER_00]: You want to talk about seeing the whole picture.

[SPEAKER_00]: He understands that better than anyone, which can help you if you have a guy like Ozzy going out there and playing young, which helps you and let you go and have a three-way competition at left tackle.

[SPEAKER_00]: having a guard like Joe who understands all of that and is going to be able to help communicate with through whoever's there, help communicate with Drew like that is an invaluable presence in that room based on everything they've gone through.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then again, I go back to what Ben does really well is varied protection schemes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like in Chicago last year, it's not like they didn't go max protecting trying to help out Caleb.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it was a lot of really easy, stagnant, sterile stuff as opposed to what Ben does, moving the offensive line and moving the pocket, changing the launch angle for the quarterback or the launch pad.

[SPEAKER_00]: I should say, where are you supposed to be?

[SPEAKER_00]: Doing all these things that constantly kept defenses on their heels.

[SPEAKER_00]: In addition to letting them tee off and have a really effective run game and having personnel groups that are varied and throw a lot of defenses like [SPEAKER_00]: All that works together in a way that makes me very hopeful.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I was talking to folks in Chicago and I was out there and I'd say it again now like that all takes time.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is an offense that, you know, for the offensive line puts a bunch on their plate for the quarterback puts a ton on their plate in terms of all the pre-snap machinations that have to go on there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so because all the parts are new, even though they are good, [SPEAKER_00]: even though a ton of the individual pieces feel like upgrades and the coordinator is one that we have a lot of faith and that stuff takes time reps and just time to get that cohesion down enough to look anything close to what they've put on display and Detroit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think to also for Caleb and some of the other players that were there last year to maybe some unlearn some of the bad habits that started last year because when you I feel like they're definitely were moments where Caleb just felt like he needed to go and hear a mode and that's what things turned into is Caleb [SPEAKER_01]: doing USC Caleb and you hope that Ben Johnson's able to reel that in a little bit and we talk about the structure and all of those things.

[SPEAKER_01]: We stole it last year in certain circumstances that people play in structure.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was the biggest criticism coming out of college.

[SPEAKER_01]: I saw it moments last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he's capable.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just you have to sometimes get that you don't have to be everything you don't have to play hero especially in a Ben Johnson office.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, but at the same time, you don't want him to totally lose that either, because that, and you've heard people in campsite, like, that is the thing that separates him.

[SPEAKER_00]: God love Jared.

[SPEAKER_00]: Jared's superpower can throw play action through a keyhole over the middle of the field and find a target.

[SPEAKER_00]: Can orchestrate that offense to a T, has been a great player as a foreign, I'm one overall pit.

[SPEAKER_00]: But physically, Caleb can do so many things that Jared could never dream of.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you saw that last year, like again, stretches when the O'Line was healthy and consistent, Caleb was out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't always perfect, but man, he does some really special stuff in the pocket.

[SPEAKER_00]: moves around really well, not afraid to cut it loose in some tight windows.

[SPEAKER_00]: Towards end of season, again, him and Rome got on the same page because he was willing to work in structure.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then, oh, by the way, there were spots where he went to Houdini.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're all the sudden he wiggles his way out of a place that very few other players can.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I always call out that like arm independence where your body can be going one way and your arm can go a totally other way and get it there because you've got the strength and you've got the gift.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that to me is the real challenge for Ben is, [SPEAKER_00]: We have heard the refrain and it's true.

[SPEAKER_00]: You need Caleb to do all the base level stuff first.

[SPEAKER_00]: But Dana Orlovsky always said this and it always stuck with me is you don't want to take away a quarterback stinger.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like whatever that thing is that they're special sauce.

[SPEAKER_00]: You want to make sure you still foster that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so for Ben Johnson, who, you know, the criticism again last year was Caleb didn't get enough help from the coaching staff, help watching film, whatever it may be.

[SPEAKER_00]: There seems to be no shortage of that feedback form from the head man who's also the offensive play caller.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's huge for him.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's like telling like if you were to tell Aaron Rogers like he can't try and make the the defensive light jump anymore like that's the penalty now.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can't do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's his little specialty.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I think that there's a lot of criticism and Mike, we saw the video go viral this last week of pale Williams and head out.

[SPEAKER_01]: So today, I don't know if you saw his press conference today of him explaining what was happening, which to me was hilarious because I was like, first of all, you just saw a drill where he was hitting every single hole in that net.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not concerned about a five yard pass from Caleb Williams, not being able to, that's not one of my concerns with him.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then he came out and explained today, they were doing like a quick deliver, like a quick and deliver drill today and they were aiming for the bottom left of the net.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what they were trying.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what the goal was for that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I just think it's hilarious because this is the overreactions of what camp are.

[SPEAKER_01]: But like there's it's not calms up perfect.

[SPEAKER_01]: We knew coming out of college.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you and I both being Notre Dame fans, it took me a bit to accept the fact that he was also going to be the quarterback in Chicago.

[SPEAKER_01]: I fought it for a little while.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but he also like he said that he does some Houdini stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: He does magic.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like he's just he has this extra this extra passion for football too.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that I'm talking a lot of a lot of head former head coaches.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the one thing they say is for a quarterback.

[SPEAKER_01]: You almost have to be obsessed with the game of football.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if there's anybody who's obsessed with the game of football, it's Caleb.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I do think you have to take that into account a little bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so just kind of overall before I let you go a few more things.

[SPEAKER_01]: If a verb in the overall of talking to everybody there at campus, especially the players you had interviews with, is what are the vibes around Caleb?

[SPEAKER_01]: Does it feel like everyone has bought into Ben Johnson or what Caleb can do and what this offense can look like?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think they see that that passion that you talked about like approaching it as a professional the way he has definitely a stuck out to everybody there and that's the tone that you set whether you're a vocal or a leader by example that's what people want to see from that position because right wrong or indifferent we know the cashier it has and the important it has to the team so [SPEAKER_00]: I thought the sentiment was overwhelmingly positive around Caleb.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the one thing that also really stuck out to people was the way Ben holds Caleb accountable sends a message to everybody around else that anyone can get it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's the old Patriots Bill Belichect thing where we saw.

[SPEAKER_00]: Eventually that afraid the relationship a little bit, but the Patriot Dynasty was built in the fact that Bill is going to dog cuss Tom the same way he was going to dog cuss everybody else.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're Caleb Williams and you can get thrown out of the huddle for making repeat mistakes by Ben Johnson the same way everyone else can.

[SPEAKER_00]: It sets the tone for the entire camp and also like it helps a coach seem credible.

[SPEAKER_00]: We all understand like treated fair and treated the same or two very different things and you're not always going to be treated the same across the team.

[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's different important in different ways to the team.

[SPEAKER_00]: But when you see other players held accountable, it makes the coaches words believable when the actions match up.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that's a big part of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, for Caleb people, I mean, they have talked about Ben Johnson did talk to him about body language being important and reading too much into training camp videos is one of the worst by products of social media.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love the access to the NFL versus college where we actually get to see this stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: We just watch it happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: But man, we really lose the context quickly with the way that we evaluate this, keep in training camp stats.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we don't know what they're trying to accomplish in each drill.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we always got to pump the brakes on that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's a good reminder, one of the things they talk with Caleb about this year.

[SPEAKER_00]: And for a guy that is so passionate, where's his heart on this sleeve and did it, SC that's not a bad thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but also at that position, there are times where you got to be the ten foot tall and bulletproof guy when he puts it in the fan you got to be the one when I like there's there is never a more reassuring feeling when you're on the sideline in between series and maybe it didn't go well or you've got to look back [SPEAKER_00]: When your quarterback comes over and is just steely eyed and is like, hey, reset next series.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is what we're going to do differently.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is what I saw on this.

[SPEAKER_00]: What you saw when he feels like he's in control, the rest of you can feel that little sigh of relief.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, all right, I don't, I don't, I don't got to do more than my job.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have to do more than I'm coach to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: because we're all on the same page and I can trust that guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so as he goes and continues to earn that trust, both in how he plays on the field, but also the message that his body language does send, because that's not nothing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to be the Bill Simmons body language expert by any means, but it's important enough to be a coaching point for the head coach in a way that I think Caleb's responding well to right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think we have so much access now to your point like offseason wise, but also during games you get these oomed in videos of quarterbacks and if someone even slightly looks like they're pounding, it's going to turn into something.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so Caleb is a very emotional person into your point.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've seen them.

[SPEAKER_01]: jump in and cry in the stands and we've seen them throw his helmet down and that's just kind of how he is but I do think there I do think that's something Ben Johnson is probably going to say which I think we've already had of you're the leader like you're that this is your offense now or if you want it to be your offense then maybe some of those things have to change to your point about the I think that I would take a freight relationship in fifteen years if it's a handful of super bowls attached to it [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know what you mean for the good times just because something ends does not mean it wasn't wonderful while it was going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think everyone in New England would not give back those rings for any amount of good feelings on the back here.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll totally with you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Final two before I let you go, these are off topic, but Jeremiah love.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, one of my favorite players in college football, not my favorite college player right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think he will be one of the better running backs this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I also unfortunately, like as much as I love, I joked on Twitter saying, I hope that bears get them, get him next year.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I also hope that bears aren't drafting high enough to get Jeremiah love each year.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I love that it's one of those type of things, but if in some way, you could get Jeremiah love on the offense next year to be your RB one.

[SPEAKER_01]: It would be Ben Johnson would Jeremiah love.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's he can just do so much.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it sounds like, you know, the early training camp reports this year, working more as a pass catcher.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen him do stuff in the screen game, but with two back sets that Notre Dame's been working on with him in Jadari and Price, like, [SPEAKER_00]: to get to see that part of his game expand and also a guy that is going to come into the NFL next year because of the depth of Notre Dame's running back room and how they used him, not a ton of tread taken off his tires and I think that's huge for a guy that's going to be a three and out player in Notre Dame is going to be probably barring something unforeseen the first running back off the board.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to get a guy who's fresh incredibly springy, incredible athlete [SPEAKER_00]: who also has a high football IQ and is adding more tools to his bag.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, you put that in Penn Johnson's offense.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good night.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm saying.

[SPEAKER_01]: And everybody wanted me to ask you about your snacks.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have any recent crazy snacks that you you've tried that you really like?

[SPEAKER_01]: I know you and I went back and forth about those the peanut butter jelly Reese's cups that were going around for a while.

[SPEAKER_01]: I saw, oh, you got some freeze dried.

[SPEAKER_01]: Did you get the freeze dried ice cream sandwiches?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I got a, I have been on a magical mystery ride lately and failed trip for furniture to the bass pro shop did leave me walking out with a freeze dried ice cream sandwich that apparently mountain climbers use because you can want ice cream and altitude.

[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't tried that yet ice cream sandwich wise.

[SPEAKER_00]: But my most recent, like, big, like, the, the great white buffalo that I tracked down was the pot tart ice cream sandwich that was ten out of ten.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's the best snack I have ever reviewed since I started doing this on the internet for whatever ungodly reason.

[SPEAKER_00]: They are perfect in every way and now I turn those same high hopes to what we just saw is the announcement from Reese's in Oreo where these two fabled brands like I would say V two brands bar none that I have tried the most things for when reviewing snacks because they do the most freaky stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: You've had the post Malone in Ariana Grande specials, sorry, Selena Gomez Oreo.

[SPEAKER_00]: that have made their ways to the shelves.

[SPEAKER_00]: You've seen sour patch conversion of that, Reese's has a million different things on every shelf and a gas station.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now we're going to put the two of those together for an Oreo with Reese's peanut butter inside and also a Reese's peanut butter cup with the like Oreo black and white top and bottom.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have high hopes for these coming out September.

[SPEAKER_00]: So very, very interested to see what that situation is going to be like.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's funny always find myself, I don't know if you, I don't know even where you live, but do you guys have bookies or what, like, no, I wish, I'm in Los Angeles.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it always takes a little longer for the snacks to make their way out here with socks, but love a bookies, love a book.

[SPEAKER_01]: the bookies and the busybies that are near us every time I go into one of those I get the weirdest thing like I leave it on like why did I get this stuff but I'll have a bag of just snacks that are always delicious or like ninety percent of the time I'm like this is fantastic but it's the weirdest stuff I thought of this but thank you for thinking about it [SPEAKER_00]: that's I God bless the people thinking about that because the reason you did it is because we can we all have a choice obviously you know take carry body do whatever you have to do but life's too short to not reach for a bag of beaver nuggets when you got the opportunity.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right Michael thank you so much I appreciate your time what do you got what do you have coming up for the rest of camp are you done you have more camps coming up [SPEAKER_00]: uh...

done with that you can check out the training camp series that we did at bleacher report on their youtube page the bleacher report app again we were in chicago we were in New York with the giants watching them with the commanders and then finished up with the falcons earlier this week uh...

it was a ton of fun again got to chat with some all-time great some current players uh...

and look ahead of the upcoming season and then you know money through friday three to five eastern me and dad uh...

doing the damn thing over here go look on sandwell sports network [SPEAKER_00]: every Monday through Friday there.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're on marquee in Chicago for people that want to watch as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's been a ton of fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're chomping at the bit for more football.

[SPEAKER_01]: Love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Are you going to know today Miami?

[SPEAKER_00]: I am not this year, uh, impending announcement, uh, that I can't say yet about some plans that I have for college football season.

[SPEAKER_00]: That'll unfortunately, uh, keep me from that one.

[SPEAKER_00]: So off to stretch was that from distance, like a lot of rest of the Irish fans.

[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, well I look forward to what's ever coming up and Mike, I really appreciate your time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Have a good rest of your, I guess, camp time until football season's here.

[SPEAKER_00]: You too, Taylor, thanks for having me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.