[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to Bears Vanderbilt Zimmerman with Zach Pearson.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is part two of our training camp preview.

[SPEAKER_01]: The mega training camp preview.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you miss part one, make sure you go back on the Windy City Grinniere and podcast feed and check that out.

[SPEAKER_01]: A good hour and ten minutes on everything from Ben Johnson, Caleb Williams to who's going to be the last guy to make the fifty three man roster on offense.

[SPEAKER_01]: So Zach, let's move over to the defensive side of the ball.

[SPEAKER_01]: and you brought up a game that I don't think bears fans really like talking about, but I think it's important to bring up when we look at this defense is the Washington game last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: You brought it up during part one about how things derailed and you know, we talk about tyrex Stevenson and Maddie refuses decision, you know, before the Hail Mary to give him the free arts.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't need to get into all the specifics with that game and relive the horror story that that was, but I do think it's important to talk about what happened after that game, because of course that was the the folk room point of the season where everything collapsed afterwards.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a lot of different ways to look at that game and what it did is, and I certainly think the players looked at their head coach and said, we're never going to win with this guy with these decisions and how he talks to the media and doubles down.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think he kind of lost the locker room at that point a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then I will also counter that and criticize the players and sit there and say, well, they did do basically what the players wanted.

[SPEAKER_01]: They let Eve or Flusco after the Lions game.

[SPEAKER_01]: They had an entire six weeks, seven weeks, whatever, left of the season with Thomas Brown.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not saying to sit there and say that Thomas Brown was going to be the next Sean McVay and light the team on, you know, light a fire under their ass and get everyone, you know, and they go five and two down the stretch.

[SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't see a bump in effort.

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't see a bump in anything.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, this entire team from that commander's point moving forward, you can blame the coaching staff and the Packers game, the Lions game.

[SPEAKER_01]: I get that.

[SPEAKER_01]: There are absolutely things to pin on ebra flutes.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think there's some to pin on the players as well in terms of being professionals and going out and making an effort.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't really know if the bearers did that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Look at that San Francisco game.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that was awful.

[SPEAKER_00]: Was it Isaac Garendo?

[SPEAKER_00]: Was it was either running back at that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or was it another backup?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they had, they were down like their feet.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know if it's Garendo or Mason, but yeah, it was, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was, I mean, that, that to me, that was, what was it like, three hundred and ten yards to two or something at some point in that first?

[SPEAKER_00]: Right away.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like right away, I mean, just going right through that defense.

[SPEAKER_00]: To me, that's a game where, you know, I know at the end of the season was like, second or third last game, whatever it was.

[SPEAKER_00]: where you look, you're like, yeah, it's done.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like they're giving up.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, they beat Green Bay, they put a lot of effort, but that's Green Bay.

[SPEAKER_00]: If that last game was someone else, [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, like I don't I don't think that would if I think same thing probably what happened were, you know, they would have got punched in the mouth and in just kind of just laid down.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you look and it just can't happen and I get it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We talked, you know, we talked with a DJ more situation with the frustrations and I, you know, still a professional and something out there into your job.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it also spoke to just how bad everything was in the culture and just how it all went downhill and you know, players speaking out in the media and you got, you know, you got guys like Mercedes Lewis who [SPEAKER_00]: pretty much thrown or in Kenyan Allen, throwing the coach under the buzz and saying, this stuff wasn't right on the offensive side.

[SPEAKER_00]: Deep had decided to be felt a little more quiet, you know, Jalen Johnson had a couple interesting comments about little Tyrex Stevenson thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yet as back, but also was kind of a little into, you know, you got to do your job, you got to be professional, you got to own up to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, first bad as it was for Tyrex Stevenson, [SPEAKER_00]: You did own up to it in a way and did talk to the team, but that stuff just can't happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think this year [SPEAKER_00]: Dennis Allen is not going to let that happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: That stuff happens under Dennis Allen.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's just not going to fly.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think they're in a better spot this year with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they got the right guys in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you bring in a veteran like Grady Jared was not going to let stuff like that happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's quite briskers back.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's kind of more of a little bit of a locker room leader.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, that stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: that stuff last year was just really ugly and it just kind of spoke to you know what maybe got people didn't see behind the scenes you know I'm fortunate enough to be able to go in that locker room a couple times a week and it was very it felt like a funeral almost every week after that Washington game it just felt like [SPEAKER_00]: No one won the talk, the answers you were getting outside of a few guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're just, all right, I got to fulfill my availability and get through this.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it was, like I said, I just kind of felt like a funeral last year and it was just really bleak and grim.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, it was I can only imagine it was like being in that locker room weekend because just watching it from afar was was was tough just just seeing like yeah, like you said everyone was basically depressed every week.

[SPEAKER_01]: Go before games for forgot after games.

[SPEAKER_01]: I lost like it was just yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: a really bad headspace to be in.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think, you know, you bring up Dennis Allen and I think that's a great place to start because, you know, we'll get in his defense and what he wants to accomplish.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the other thing I really like about Dennis Allen and this goes down where to say is that he's a failed head coach twice.

[SPEAKER_01]: And here's why I say failed is why that's good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, one, he does have head coach experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to help Ben Johnson, his Ben Johnson learns to be a head coach.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, even if it didn't work out, he still learned things along the way.

[SPEAKER_01]: But two, Dennis Allen is not going to be a hot commodity in terms of getting an opportunity to become a head coach.

[SPEAKER_01]: very rarely do guys get a third opportunity after two two head coaching gigs didn't go well and with the writers in the Saints neither one went particularly well.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not to say if Dennis Allen doesn't build an elite defense that's top three in the league for four or five years.

[SPEAKER_01]: He can't get an opportunity but he's not going to get an opportunity in twenty twenty six or twenty twenty seven.

[SPEAKER_01]: Dennis Allen if Ben Johnson's the guy here for the next eight to ten years Dennis Allen if his defense is working well maybe the guy here with alongside Ben Johnson for eight to ten years he may not get that opportunity like Steve Spagnola in Kansas City like he just he's there and just running a really good defense because his his head coaching jobs didn't work out so the the idea of having [SPEAKER_01]: The play call on offense, that's the head coach who's going to stick around so you don't have revolving off and sequer andators because Caleb Williams is great and the offense, you know, as to get a new OC every couple years because of a defense of mine in head coach, but at the same time, I do think they can have stability on defense as well because they don't have that, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: Brandon Staley type guy who was, you know, going to come up and get a head coaching job.

[SPEAKER_01]: Those those kind of guys, Mike McDonald, these these hot defense coordinators that eventually get hired.

[SPEAKER_01]: Dennis Allen is the kind of guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: This could be the pairing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Ben Johnson's offense and Dennis Allen's defense for several years in Chicago.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not going to be like a big fan geo situation after what, twenty eighteen where, you know, he's he's finally getting a shot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you said, he's had a couple chances.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it feels like, I mean, this is this is like a great situation for him to be in.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're probably more worried about losing someone like Al Harris or, you know, someone like you're trying to land a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: The guy's like that on your defense and offense, but yeah, I mean, I think it's a great situation for Dennis Allen, like not only does he bring some head coaching experience to a guy who's a first time head coach who can, you know, it's not Dennis Allen telling them, oh, hey, yeah, do this, this, this, this, it's [SPEAKER_00]: If Ben Johnson, you know, there's a situation that arises or planning the pregame, you know, the strategy against against the opponents and what should I do challenges and things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think Dennis Allen can offer that advice to him and kind of be like that that presence.

[SPEAKER_00]: on the coaching staff, but yeah, I mean, that's, this is ideal for the Bears in general.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like if Ben Johnson's the guy, and he's calling the plays, like he is, and he's here for eight to nine years, you have that marriage, that partnership, not only with Caleb Williams potentially, but now with your defensive coordinator, you don't have to worry about another team, coaching him.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, unless, you know, he faces with a top two, three defense every single year, and a team wants to give him a shot.

[SPEAKER_00]: We do, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we see teams get a little, uh, a little quirky here and there, um, with their head coaching search.

[SPEAKER_00]: But no, this is like, this is ideal for the bears.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is why to me, [SPEAKER_00]: the dentist at the ben johnson hires a sexy higher everyone loves it did his hand hires just very under a it doesn't get I love man yeah I love it for a team that like we saw you know we we talked about happened last year you're before and they before that at least Maddie refuse kind of had a sense of his defense had had them [SPEAKER_00]: playing well at times and kept them in games.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now you've got a guy who, who, you know, can come in and be that guy to, you know, he has to worry about being a head coach and he doesn't have to, you know, worry about all that, that type of stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: He can focus on his defense.

[SPEAKER_00]: He got these guys to the next level.

[SPEAKER_00]: And really, he's got a talent in union, especially with that secondary right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I loved this tire from the Bears.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was probably one of my favorite hires.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love it too.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's going to do great things for for this team.

[SPEAKER_01]: And here's the one thing that I think fans are going to love if if they haven't really watched Dennis Allen defenses, this is going to look different.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be something that that the bears haven't seen basically since fan geo in terms of having that aggressiveness that that when fan geo left pagano didn't have that same aggressiveness and [SPEAKER_01]: And these other defense coordinator since haven't had it man, even flus is a good defense coordinator.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to do a fine job in Dallas.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure he did a fine job in Indianapolis.

[SPEAKER_01]: He just didn't have it as a head coach, but many flus was not an aggressive defensive coordinator.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they wasn't a high blitz rate.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he didn't generate a lot of pressure, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of bears fans pulled out their hair.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they, everyone's got a bigger ball to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks to Maddie, we're flew sit-in and soft zones on third world.

[SPEAKER_01]: And given up, first downs on third and twelve, we'll get to the packers.

[SPEAKER_01]: We all saw it.

[SPEAKER_01]: We were all frustrated with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's not Dennis Allen.

[SPEAKER_01]: Dennis Allen likes to get up at the line of scrimmage.

[SPEAKER_01]: He likes the secondary to be aggressive.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's not a big blitzer, but he does a lot of stunts and twists and stuff up front.

[SPEAKER_01]: He tries to generate pressure.

[SPEAKER_01]: to me, Dennis Allen is a guy who kind of mirrors Ben Johnson's mentality on offense where I think, you know, we're going to see Ben Johnson probably going forward on fourth down like Dan Campbell did.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to do more aggressive things offensively, some trick plays to try and catch the defense offcards.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think we're going to see similar things from Dennis Allen where he's going to be aggressive.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to try and [SPEAKER_01]: you know make negative plays that is going to blow up a driver get turnovers or get sacks or whatever create pressures.

[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever it might be.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think Dennis Allen's mentality on defense is going to be a lot different than what Maddie before.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, go back to when Tom Brady was on a Tampa Bay Buccaneer and go back and look what Dennis Allen did in the luxury gave them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Someone wrote a fascinating article on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I got to find it again and give the credit to it, but.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was a look at how Dennis Allen coached against Tom Brady, how he coached against, you know, other people and with the blitzes and the the skies and the looks and sitting in, you know, just man to man coverage.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it worked most of the time and you know, Tampa Bay beat him in the playoffs that one year, but it was a close game and it wasn't easy.

[SPEAKER_00]: They made life hell on Tom Brady and I think that's what you're going to see from Dennis Allen.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you're going to see that that some type of aggressiveness, you're going to see guys in different spots he's going to lean on a secondary that man to man.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he wants in the play physical.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's got a good defensive backs coach and Al Harris that has the same philosophy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly man, like it feels like sky is a limit for this defense.

[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like they had so much untapped potential and they were they had so many good pieces.

[SPEAKER_00]: They just never reached it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like Dennis Allen's by the perfect guy that can get them back to an elite defense.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's early as this year, honestly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I think the potential's there and like you talked about it starts with that secondary.

[SPEAKER_01]: So let's let's begin with the secondaries.

[SPEAKER_01]: We kind of break down this defense of unit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk corner back since we were talking, Tyrex Stevenson earlier.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is a huge year for Tyrex Stevenson.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, I mean, he's going to be extension eligible a year for now.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that's something the bear is going to want to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of depend on how he plays this season.

[SPEAKER_01]: We know he had issues not just the [SPEAKER_01]: Hail Mary against the commanders, but there were some other things did a little nasty thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: The Jamison Williams, the sidelines and the Detroit game.

[SPEAKER_01]: They were some decisions from Tyrex Stevens in last year that weren't great.

[SPEAKER_01]: We saw them certain split time with Tyrell Smith after those issues.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is a big year for Tyre extremists and who I do think his play style should fit better and Dennis Allen's defense.

[SPEAKER_01]: So hopefully that gives him a boost there.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think this, this seat when I say CB too, Kyle Gordon's already on the field as a nickel.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, don't, don't think I'm, I'm discounting him.

[SPEAKER_01]: The CB too, I think, could be interesting where Terrell Smith [SPEAKER_01]: like he's I think better than a lot of people give him credit for he did his pf grades are always really well which to me is is very Adrian Amos like where doesn't make a lot of big plays but also doesn't screw up very often he's kind of in the right place at the right time which gets you a really good pf grade so I think it's a little [SPEAKER_01]: swollen in terms of who he, what the great is compared to who he is as a player, but he's a solid player, but again, I don't know if he's going to fit as well in Dennis Allen's defense as Tyrex Stevenson.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's going to be interesting to see who's lining up opposite Jalen Johnson.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if it's one hundred percent Tyrex or if Smith's got a shot to win the job.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, so far, the obviously, you know, Jalen Johnson missed a, Mr.

Day or two of the voluntary stuff and, you know, Tyrell Smith, Tyrell Smith had an injury, so he wasn't out there much.

[SPEAKER_00]: I, I'd lean Tyreaks even soon right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, they love them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Al Harris loves them.

[SPEAKER_00]: They had them in for a visit in Dallas.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, spoke very highly of him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of felt like he was the type of guy who had fit in their defense there, that the aggressive style, the man to man.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, and Tyreek said when we got to talk to him about like, can I say, let's us play our style.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is how we go make our money.

[SPEAKER_00]: So a defense back makes his money.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's one's man to man coverage.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Tyreek loves that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would lean Tyreek right now, but Tyreek's myth for me still has a lot of that potential.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I still think we've seen it fully maximized yet, whether it's an entry or playing time or just being behind Jalen Johnson and being behind Tyreek Stevenson on the depth chart.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he's made plays.

[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't.

[SPEAKER_00]: get beat often, and it's a different style to me than Tyrex Stevenson is.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's obviously faster than Tyrex Stevenson.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's got that speed that was touted as a rookie, but it will be a little bit of fastening battle the Washington camp.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd probably handicap it as Stevenson's got the upper hand right now, but I could also see a scenario kind of like we saw last year and last year's was maybe more [SPEAKER_00]: of what Stevenson did in that Washington game and in the antics after that, where we got to see a little bit more across Smith.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I could see a scenario where they do split some time or Smith has just too good to keep off the field.

[SPEAKER_00]: You got to get him a couple of reps in there as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and look, and Jalen Johnson, we know he's going to be really good on the other side, which is obviously a huge, huge boost.

[SPEAKER_01]: Top ten corner league, probably top five corner in the league.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's been excellent the last couple years, but, you know, he does have, you know, some injury issues in his past.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's got to shoulder issues, he's got things like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So even if Tyreek Stevenson is the guy who wins the job, having Smith behind them, where if Tyreek does have a mental block and needs to take a seat, [SPEAKER_01]: You have Smith who can come in.

[SPEAKER_01]: If Jalen does miss a couple games with something that gets banged up, having the depth of Smith being able to kind of be the backup boundary corner there, I think is a tremendous asset.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, hundred percent, too.

[SPEAKER_00]: If someone like that goes down to have that, it is very valuable.

[SPEAKER_00]: And who knows, maybe Smith shows out in camp, or has a big preseason, or plays well enough in the regular season, like we're like I said, he's just, you can't give him off the field, he's too good, maybe he overtakes that job.

[SPEAKER_00]: But they got, that's secondary, he's got some good depth, especially with the cornerback position.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you need a two-color Gordon can slot out sometimes outside, if you want, but obviously you're primary and nickel, [SPEAKER_00]: They have Josh Blackwell as well, who's been solid when asked to come in in a pinch and play in that nickel or play different spots.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they're in a good spot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not only, you know, we talked about them in the offensive line.

[SPEAKER_00]: how the starters are really good, and the depth is bad.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think with this, the starters are really good, and I think the depth is pretty damn good for the bearers too, considering what they have, and if Trial Smith beats out, Tyrex Stevenson, you still have a capable guy in that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they're in a really good spot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Dennis Allen has to be really liking what he's gotten.

[SPEAKER_00]: They also have a rookie that they're trying to develop as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's a good spot to be in right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I love the secondary like you said, Josh Blackwell when he said to come in at nickel has done a really nice good special teams player, but you know, it's done a really good job in nickel as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I think we should talk about Kyler Gordon for a minute because he just got the extension.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to be a part of this defense move and forward.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I love what Kyler Gordon brings.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's a lot of fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: He can utilize it.

[SPEAKER_01]: He has a Swiss army knife.

[SPEAKER_01]: He can use them a lot of different ways.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I do think Maddie Refuse did a good job of utilizing him in that way.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's not a knock on Eberfliz.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm actually even more curious to see what Dennis Allen wants to do with him as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: because he with his athleticism and you know, he's not afraid to get up at the line of scrimmage and get in the backfield and do some things.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know Allen doesn't blitz a ton, but you know, Gordon is a guy you can blitz from the secondary.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be really fascinated to see how Allen utilizes Gordon in his defense.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it kind of feels like Kyle had Gordon just doesn't get talked about enough naturally for how good he's been and how he's gotten better each year.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now, you know, he got paid, he got the deal.

[SPEAKER_00]: You got to go show him, but you know, to that point, Dennis Allen, I think it was the first or second press conference we had with Dennis Allen, he was asked about Kyle and Gordon and [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, we're trying out some things and kind of hinting, you know, maybe you could play on that back end of the back line of the defense.

[SPEAKER_00]: If needed, they want to go with an extra safety or, you know, just sub in someone.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think Dennis Allen's got to be looking at the court.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, wow, I have this guy as a weapon.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, he doesn't blitz often, but when he does and he could disguise it, you know, if Colin Gordon coming off the edge.

[SPEAKER_00]: But now you know, in Dennis Allen's mind, he has to know, okay, I have [SPEAKER_00]: a lockdown guy in jail in Johnson, he can follow the best-wide receiver if we need him to, you know, I've, whether it's Charles Smith or Tyrex Stevenson, I have a pretty damn good DB too that many teams don't have.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now I have a weapon in the nickel where I can use Kyler Gordon in different spots.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I mean, excuse me, the strength of that secondary, or the secondary is obviously the strength of the defense, but [SPEAKER_00]: Having a player like Tyler Gordon, you can move around.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can do different things with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's definitely a bonus for Dennis Allen.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm kind of curious to see what kind of looks he gives with Tyler Gordon.

[SPEAKER_00]: If he does try, maybe he wants to move him back, bring on an extra safety, instead of a linebacker or depending on what packages they're in, how he kind of utilizes Tyler Gordon.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I just think he's too good to have him off the field for extended time or different players if that makes sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely it does.

[SPEAKER_01]: And let's talk about the safety position.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think this one's, you know, it's interesting mostly because of Jekwann Brisker.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Kevin Byrd, you know, but it also, it's interesting to note that all four of the top safeties are all free agents at the end of this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the safety position is really interesting here with not just Brisker and Byrd, but the guys behind him with Hicks and Owens as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't like buyer pretty much never miss his time.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's a prose pro.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's in his early thirties.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, at that point, you know, he could fall off a cliff at any point as we know in the NFL when you're that age.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, had a solid season last year after struggling in Philly and you would expect that in Dennis Allen's defense.

[SPEAKER_01]: He could do that as well with Brisker.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, to me, to me, this comes down to the concussions.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, his first couple years in the league, I really wanted to see improvement in coverage.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I really think he was showing improvement in coverage in year three.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then we have the concussion that puts him out for what twelve games, whatever it was, just a crazy amount of time.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's his third concussion that and it was a massive one.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you sit there and go, [SPEAKER_01]: Kenjakwan Brisker stay on the field.

[SPEAKER_01]: Kenjakwan Brisker get another contract from the bears or are these concussions too much of a risk for them to invest any money in him.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, when you're talking the safety position, the conversation has to start with Jekwan Brisker.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think, you know, we talked about the color Gordon extends and they came to league together.

[SPEAKER_00]: They were the first two picks for Ryan Polls.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he probably sees that and says, okay, you know, my teammate, my brother got, they got paid.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to get paid too.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at it from the Bears angle, exactly what you said.

[SPEAKER_00]: Three concussions.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is twelve games last season.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really bad concussion and bad enough where you had to go to a separate doctor in Pennsylvania.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's got to work through things.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel for Jokwan Burskar at times to just because like being around him and how much he really wants to play and be out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like when he said it was killer on the be out there, you could just like he doesn't lock her with a towel over and say like he, it killed him not to be out there with his teammates last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: When he's on the football field, I thought last year, as you mentioned, I thought he was on his way to a hell of a season.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I don't want to say proble or all pro.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he was on his way to a really good season.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was flying all over the field, those first couple games, you know, to play that he got hurt.

[SPEAKER_00]: I believe he was coming in full speed to make a tackle or something like that and got hit.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's got to get better in the coverage.

[SPEAKER_00]: We know what he could do in the box.

[SPEAKER_00]: If he's got to come up and run support and things like that, he's a hard hitter.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he's got to stay healthy.

[SPEAKER_00]: That the culture thing really worries me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, if you can't stay healthy, you're not going to get a contract beyond the sheer.

[SPEAKER_00]: But so far, in the off season for what I've seen, looking at OTAs is the same type of guy that we saw going into last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: These are quote unquote, you know, glue guy where he's kind of got he kind of gets the guys are rally around him.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's a leader on that defense.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to talk trash.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to let you know he's going to do his hand thing that he does away from in the air.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he doesn't look like he lost a step at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: He kind of looks like that guy we saw the first couple games last year and I think this could be a motivating year for him.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's got a lot to play for.

[SPEAKER_00]: A second contract to prove everyone wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: He'll tell you he's got how the doubters.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's got him saved and all that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, he's got a definitely a lot to play for this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let me ask you this one, I just thought of it, and I'm curious to get your opinion.

[SPEAKER_01]: It can be, you know, one year, three million dollars.

[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have to be a big contract.

[SPEAKER_01]: Of the four safeties, if Zach Pearson was betting on one of them to be back, who is most likely to be back next year, like I said, Elijah Hicks, Jonathan Owens, and the two starters are all free agents.

[SPEAKER_01]: You got briskers, healthy, got buyer's age, then you got backup level players behind them.

[SPEAKER_01]: who are you most confident will be a bear in twenty twenty six.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or you can say none of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I would lean towards none.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I actually became an environment like a one year deal.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe a two year deal.

[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, but he's getting up there and age.

[SPEAKER_00]: I, which a quant.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if he's healthy, it's a quant coming back.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe a one or two year deal.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a healthy and it's got to prove because I do think Ryan Paul's really likes.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's that connection and you know, I hate to say but like there is that connection of being one of the first draft picks and like you want in a way Ryan Paul wants to, yeah look look I made two really good picks right away.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's forget about the third pick I made in that track.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's not even on the team.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know where he's at, but yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's that type of feeling for Ryan Paul's like, I don't want to say like always trying to prove it when wrong, just by signing them, but if he stays healthy, it'd be a big requirement.

[SPEAKER_00]: But by the bet right now, it's probably Kevin Bayer just because I could see this defense having a big year in him sticking around.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's at the point of his career where he wants to go and change locations again and chase it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if he could get a [SPEAKER_00]: big contract, he probably will, but he's at a point in his career.

[SPEAKER_00]: He feels like he's in a place where they're building something special.

[SPEAKER_00]: He would want to stay in that spot.

[SPEAKER_01]: I like that answer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's move over to the linebacker position.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think this one is interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: TJ Edwards, of course, gets an extension.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was a little bit of a critic of it, because I thought TJ's play kind of faded in November and December last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, to Baris fans, granted, who came back at me, they're like, be an entire defense.

[SPEAKER_01]: Stunky, can't just blame him.

[SPEAKER_01]: My thought would be, well, let's make sure TJ Edwards bounces back, maybe extend him in October, November this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: But regardless, TJ Edwards has been extended, he's going to be here at least a couple more years.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tremaine Edmunds, this is a huge year for him.

[SPEAKER_01]: The Bears can get out of that contract after this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: And to me, for him to, for the Bears not to want to get out of this contract.

[SPEAKER_01]: like he is going that not proble, he's going to have to be in an all pro level.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't see that this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the top two guys, it's interesting to see how that dynamic plays out.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I also think it's interesting, who is the third linebacker on this team?

[SPEAKER_01]: Who's going to be in base packages?

[SPEAKER_01]: I know they're going to be in nickel mostly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Are they going to go with Ruben Hippelite?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is it going to be no a tool that there hasn't?

[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't make much of an investment there in the third linebacker position.

[SPEAKER_01]: So kind of an interesting group here with a few question marks.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they let a linebacker go, a linebacker who had also played on special things, Jack Sandborn, who was not on dials with that e-refluse.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually funny.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was at NASCAR and all three linebackers were at the NASCAR race.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was to add words, yeah, Jack Sandborn was there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Intermediate Edmunds was walking around there.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that was actually kind of funny, but [SPEAKER_00]: I agree with Edmunds.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's got to be an all-pro year, just because of the money you can get in and save for the cap.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's got to have an all-pro year.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was a little surprise to the TJ Edwards extension.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure you were as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: We thought we saw kind of the rumors and reports like, yeah, you can be the next guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought maybe you'd test it out, give him a couple of games, Simon in season, maybe right before the season, even.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're referred to be done that early.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was a little surprising to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: But now, very likely it's going to be Tramade Edmund's last year here in Chicago.

[SPEAKER_00]: To me, it hasn't worked out how the Bears envisioned it, too, especially with the timing of the whole Rokuan Smith thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a different argument for a different day.

[SPEAKER_00]: In terms of that third linebacker spot, Ben Johnson said it's no a stool.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's mentioned no a stool a couple times, where he's standing out.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's probably the leader right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: But man, Ruben Hippelite had a hell of an off-season in impressed in OTAs, and I mean he can't, he's fast.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, speed gets you so far in this league, but he's fast and we saw him when he was on the field.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, a couple of times blitzing a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he also got reps when Edwards wasn't there and in tremendous endmins was sitting out some plays.

[SPEAKER_00]: He also got reps, you know, was able to be in both linebacker spots and get reps there with no a stool.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's been a fascinating battle to watch.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say no a stool is probably got the upper hand right now as a third linebacker.

[SPEAKER_00]: But Rubin hippo like winning that job would not surprise me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And even this thing could essentially last into the season where [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they, and a couple, you know, games they put in Noah or the couple games they put in Ruben, they kind of alternate, see what they got.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that's going to be a fascinating battle.

[SPEAKER_00]: I, I got to see more from this linebackers, but I want to add where's the prove it that he got this deal for a reason and play better.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tremaine Edwards has to play better.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because right now, you look, I like what they did in the defensive line.

[SPEAKER_00]: felt like they probably could have addressed the linebacker spot a little more.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, this off season.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mean, obviously, like what they have in the second year, but it feels like that linebacker spots kind of up in the air in terms of how good they can be.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I let me ask, would you have, we both said that we, they probably could add in more to that spot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think, let's say, do you think Jack Sandborn would have been an upgrade to what they did in that spot?

[SPEAKER_00]: If they would, if they would have kept them, [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think that's interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do think Jack Sandborn's an upgrade, and obviously he did not sign for a lot of money.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's to me where it comes down to, and I understand the bears are getting to a point where they are going to have to start watching their dollars a little bit, especially assuming they're going to extend Caleb Williams in a couple years.

[SPEAKER_01]: I look at it and go, Sanborn was such a good third line back then.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can say he had issues and coverage and everything, but the man had good instincts, he had a good nose for the football.

[SPEAKER_01]: And to me, and look, and I've had people who are in the league and or in agencies who know more football than me, who when I sit there and defend Sanborn, they're like, [SPEAKER_01]: and and all thirty one teams were clamoring after him and and and I do get that obviously like I said he ended up going back with his old coach at a very modest deal.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I'd say there'd be like keep that guy around because if Edmunds goes down if Edwards goes down you know he can fill in you know when you're in base packages I you know three million dollars for one year deal whatever it might have been I think it would have made sense to keep Sandborn because I get [SPEAKER_01]: the the Rubin Hoopelite jokes in terms of when he was picked and they may have overdrafted him.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think at a minimum he's going to be a great special team's player with that speed.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think he'll be an asset there.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I know you said he was great in the spring and everything and that's great, but speed does an athleticism does really well when the pads are off.

[SPEAKER_01]: When the pads come on and and Joe Tunis getting, you know, on that second level, can you get off that block and get over and make the play.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where I have questions about hip-a-light where I think maybe what it made sense to keep sandwork.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Speak can only get you so far, like you said.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it'd be the fastest player, but we've seen with wide receivers.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you can't catch, you're not going to last long in this lake with the same with the rest.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, and say it was running back, too, and all the positions.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I'm in a grins with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it wasn't like, it's a good point.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thirty one of our teams weren't clamoring the sign of them, but it's also like, he didn't take a big contract and laugh.

[SPEAKER_00]: You could probably get to live with that through the bears.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he went out and got a big contract somewhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: Good for him, but like Nick Cookowski went to the Raiders and whatever the deal was, like, three years, twenty one million.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're in a match.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we're not, we're not keeping Nick Cookowski.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that made that made sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't want to max that.

[SPEAKER_00]: This was more like you don't, if you have Jack Sanborn, you don't have that question mark at the third linebacker spot or a guy that could fill in if Edmunds or Edwards has hurt.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now you're relying on Noah Suo who hasn't been able to get out of field much and you're relying on Himalight, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: Amen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, but I'm going to I've pushed that name.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I just say Amen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, amen.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, veteran, but like you're really not like Carl Jones kind of guys like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're looking at like, okay, what's power echoes is he going to make the team Swazzy Boseman.

[SPEAKER_00]: These are guys are practice squad guys, you know, it's [SPEAKER_00]: They're in a spot where one of those linebackers goes down, they're going to need, he really need no soil or something to show that's potential this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that was my big, that's my big concern with that group is, you know, if it's Edmunds and Edwards and they play Seventeen games in soil or hip-alike and out there, you know, for ten snaps of game when they're not nickel great.

[SPEAKER_01]: But one of those guys goes down for four or five games.

[SPEAKER_01]: do they have a linebacker who can sit there and be, you know, replacement level.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't know if they have.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they did.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd be shocked.

[SPEAKER_00]: It would be nice if one of them developed it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like even with a hippo, it's a developmental guy, essentially.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, sure, you want them to come in and play well right away.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like, if he takes a year or two, that's kind of the expectations of my eyes right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I agree with that.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's finish on the defensive side of the ball with the defensive line.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's kind of talk interior and then talk edge not one, but everyone together.

[SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise, it's kind of overwhelming.

[SPEAKER_01]: So let's start with the interior here because, you know, when I do the training camp battle series, I went back and looked at what I did last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the training camp battles I had was the third defensive tackle on the team.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was between Zach Pickens and Randolph, the UDFA for Melon, and I kind of sat there.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh my god.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and the time of the article, I was like, this isn't great that this is your third defensive tackle.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we're looking back a year from now and be like, how did we not know this?

[SPEAKER_01]: He was gone five and twelve in the right situation.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the fact is now.

[SPEAKER_01]: the depth across the interior is fantastic.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't even know who's going to be the starting, you know, group here between Billings, Dexter, and Jared.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, only two of them are going to be starting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Whoever the third guy is, I think is great.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think you're in a position here where you can reduce snap counts for everybody and really get get away.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, they have the second round pick with Turner and what he can bring to the table as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, [SPEAKER_01]: little, little bit of a loose cannon there, but you know, and shows a lot of talent on tape as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: And now suddenly, you know, where Zach Pickens was battling for the third defensive tackle spot last year, he's battling for a roster spot this year, because even guys like Ford and Chris Williams behind these guys, you know, are our decent depth pieces as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, let Ed Edge definitely shallower in the depth range there, but talking about the interior defensive line.

[SPEAKER_01]: This looks like could be a really good unit.

[SPEAKER_01]: We talked about the strength of the secondary.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think this interior defense line is also a really big strength of this unit.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm more confident that, you know, than I am on the edge.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, the bear's gonna have to get after the quarterback.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, they just really struggled last year and you looked, and especially the interior when Andrew Billings went down, it was defenses are, they collapsed.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Devon Dexter really couldn't do much.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think Byron Coward had like four sex, but that was like a surprise when Andrew Billings went down.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I really like what they did, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love the turner pick.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like the great Jared signing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they have good depth.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, we don't know who's going to start.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even, like I don't think it matters, honestly, because I think we're going to see them kind of interchanging in all times.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then, like you said, you're going to get guys who are going to [SPEAKER_00]: take, you know, be able to come out for a couple of plays and maybe you won't see a, you'll see a probably naturally a little bit of a drop off, but maybe it's not has big of a drop off as, you know, previous years where we're looking at, okay, Byron Coward and a couple of guys are are now coming in for a couple of plays.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, I mean, their depth is good.

[SPEAKER_00]: And with sack pickins, I mean, it's, it's big training camp for him.

[SPEAKER_00]: He, he, he, [SPEAKER_00]: He's probably, I'd lean right now by now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to make the roster, if I would be in my projection right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, and I'm curious, you know, where do they line up Garvond Dexter?

[SPEAKER_00]: How do they, who do they pair him with?

[SPEAKER_00]: Does it, does it matter?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do they like them with Grady Jarod?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do they like them with Andrew Billings?

[SPEAKER_00]: Who gets the reps between him and in Shemar Turner?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be pretty fascinating to see on that interior.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they improved.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad they improved on the interior offensive line.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very glad they improved on the interior defensive line as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's the one thing like you're talking about the depth that the fourth quarter is if you've got the events of lime and out there for eighty five percent of the snaps that they have nothing in their legs in the fourth quarter.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: But if you've got, you know, Jared at sixty percent, Dexter at sixty percent, [SPEAKER_01]: Billings at fifty percent, Turner at, you know, forty percent, I don't even know if that works out, and I didn't do the math.

[SPEAKER_01]: But like, if you've got guys that low, they're going to have fresh legs in the fourth quarter when that offensive line is going to try and, you know, establish the run and try and wear you down defensively and get first downs and win the game.

[SPEAKER_01]: Your defensive line is still going to be able to battle that offensive line and keep that running game down and do what you need to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like you said, we [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to have to get some pressure from the edge.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about it here in a second, but the guys they have on the interior, I think are going to be able to do what they need to do to stop the run and be able to disrupt the passing game.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think those top four guys they have, like you said, if you're getting Chris Williams or Ford or any of these guys out there for a few snaps of game, that's fine when you have [SPEAKER_01]: You know, assuming Turner's pretty good, and I think he will be, I think he'll be pretty good as a rookie as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to be the unit that's really going to be trying to disrupt the passing attack in the running game.

[SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, even with like, on obvious passing downs in the fourth corner, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a third and long, maybe a second law on game on the line, you might see them move my test sweat inside.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm not my test sweat, but you might see them move a couple of guys inside get some extra past rushers.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Daniel can go inside.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just think they have so many good options.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we saw it, but leave us a couple of places on Dominic Robbins and line up inside.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's going to be a big training camp for him to your kind of still waiting for him to break out.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think what [SPEAKER_00]: Dennis Allen wants to do and in the things he has to as a disposal is going to work out to be a perfect match on that defensive line in terms of moving guys around in certain situations.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so let's wrap up with the edge and I want to kind of talk get your general prediction for the season, but let's talk about the edge position here because, you know, I know in the part one, we talked a little bit about, you know, if something like Kenneth Walker, if that's possible in terms of making addition on offense, I think if the bear's make a training camp addition, I think most likely it would be an edge where, you know, there's always a few veteran edge guys sitting around in August, you know, is an area Smith is still available.

[SPEAKER_01]: for example.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like those type of guys I think could make sense to do a to add a third edge to the group because obviously they're going to go with Odango obviously big year for Montes sweat as well trying to bounce back from his injury or little season where he did not have the same impact last year as he did in twenty twenty three.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but [SPEAKER_01]: Austin Booker is this guy going to be able to be a reliable third edge where if he is, then maybe you don't need an addition.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I do wonder based on where he was last year, if he's going to be able to take enough steps forward to be that guy this year, is he better off as the team's fourth edge?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, hearty, I know, you know, did some nice special teams, things last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: You talk about Dom Rob, I've kind of given up on Dom Rob.

[SPEAKER_01]: Every year I hear about how good he is in OTAs and then the pads come on.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's the last year of Dom Rob.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if he's, if he finally puts it together, I'm excited.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll be all for it, and I'll say I'm wrong.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't see it with Dom Rob, but at the same time, the depth here is one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like Montes wet goes down and misses a couple games.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't know where they're getting pressure on the outside.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, that's that's pretty much worse case scenario because you know, we saw last year with Montessois with that injury.

[SPEAKER_00]: He just wasn't the same.

[SPEAKER_00]: I saw him in the locker room at a big bandage on that shin.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it took a cleat to the shin and one of the games.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if it put him in that much pain, imagine what it'd do to like you or me, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'd probably have the couch for a couple weeks.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think like, yeah, it's obvious.

[SPEAKER_00]: They need more production from the edge and the past rushers.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it starts with my test sweat.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's got to have another big year because, you know, they won't spend the money on an older bingo.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they just, you're still waiting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, is he going to have that production?

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, she looked back at his time in Indianapolis as the stats match the contract.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of the thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Question mark on Austin Booker, too.

[SPEAKER_00]: We were very high on him last year in the off season.

[SPEAKER_00]: didn't really produce a whole lot in the regular season.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then like you said, Dominique Robinson had that first career game against Trent Williams, a couple of sacks.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just been essentially curtains and nothing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, nothing.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's incredible.

[SPEAKER_00]: They just don't have the depth.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where it kind of goes back to like upfront.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to have to get pressure on the end here to kind of help out on the edge because [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably my, I know I said linebackers of concern for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is probably one of my biggest concerns.

[SPEAKER_00]: I agree with the roster overall is where they're going to get the past rush help from.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because it's the thing like when we talk about, I don't know how good running back might be if Swift is the guy, but you've got multiple guys behind him.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the issue here at Edge is like you said with Odenpo, that contract is projecting him to grow and become a better player than he was in Indianapolis.

[SPEAKER_01]: Montez, what needs to be rebound from, if Montez, what plays like he did in twenty twenty four, [SPEAKER_01]: And Odango doesn't take a step forward.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's not me being like a negative Nancy.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's just, that is the reality.

[SPEAKER_01]: That is not a, you know, that is certainly in the realm of possible outcomes.

[SPEAKER_01]: That sweat doesn't return to form.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Odango remains the player.

[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't Indianapolis.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if that's the case, they really don't have anything coming off the edge.

[SPEAKER_01]: That I agree with you because like we can we can say tremendous isn't worth eighteen million dollars based on his play, but he's a capable linebacker.

[SPEAKER_01]: TJ Edwards, because I was sure they have extended him.

[SPEAKER_01]: He kind of the play faded in December, but he's a capable linebacker like there's capable guys there.

[SPEAKER_01]: And while they do have capable starters, there's not a lot behind them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And both those guys as starters are [SPEAKER_01]: know more for run stopping than pass rushing I know sweat did both in twenty twenty three so yeah you do have that question there is can while we feel they can collapse the pocket and do some good things on the interior can they get around the tackles and get to the quarterback and get those key pressures on the outside [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, they're going to have to and go back to the zero is a serious smith thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: We want he's the bears.

[SPEAKER_00]: The only team he hasn't played for in the NFC North.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Something like that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious what they do if they do bring in someone, but [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, to me, it all starts with Mount Test sweat.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's got to be the guy that has a big year.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to talk in like, eighteen, nineteen, sacks or anything like that, but get that over ten sides.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, eleven.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, set that kind of tone and open up things.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like if he's getting double team for the end of the year, that's probably a good thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: That means he's been dominating most of the year and it gives another opportunity for someone else.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like you get like eleven some from sweat eight from Odango and you know four from booker like that that's plenty coming from the outside of if they can get that the question though, of course is can they get that and we'll have to see so all right, let's wrap up this Zach and thank you for so much time of course.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're doing this in one recording here, so you're getting two parts of two weeks.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is Zach sitting down for over two hours.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get your prediction on the season.

[SPEAKER_01]: We talked about the offense.

[SPEAKER_01]: We talked about the defense.

[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of positives here.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think anyone in the country thinks the bears are going to be not improved from five and twelve last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: The question is how improved?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because if, you know, they go eight nine this year, three wins is a big improvement.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you're going to have people be like, well, they should have won the Detroit game.

[SPEAKER_01]: They should have won the Green Bay game.

[SPEAKER_01]: They should have won the Washington game.

[SPEAKER_01]: If with a better coach, they were an eight, nine team last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we sit there and say, what is a potential outcome for you?

[SPEAKER_01]: The schedule is not a walk in the park.

[SPEAKER_01]: Where do you think this team can be this season?

[SPEAKER_01]: Can they have a winning record?

[SPEAKER_01]: Can they make the playoffs?

[SPEAKER_01]: What is Zach Pearson?

[SPEAKER_00]: They can't have a winning record.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they can make the playoffs.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be hard though.

[SPEAKER_00]: The NFC is not a stack as the FC.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they do kind of have that going.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're in a division where, like, if JJ McCarthy is good, the Vikings are going to be pretty damn good, I think.

[SPEAKER_00]: The lions have some question marks.

[SPEAKER_00]: How does losing a couple of coordinators impact the most eight coaches?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's going to be their biggest question.

[SPEAKER_00]: But they still have talent.

[SPEAKER_00]: They have a lot of really good players.

[SPEAKER_00]: The packers are an interesting one to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: They have the, they have the four, I think that's always an advantage in my eyes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Will Jordan love be better?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are they going to get the Xavier McKinney, what?

[SPEAKER_00]: Niners, eight interceptions, they got from like last year, whatever he had.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they're, they're on top of the vision.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think for the bears, I looked at the schedule when it first came out and I kind of did the whole fan thing and looked at it and like, yeah, then when this came this game and I got him to like, ten or eleven wins.

[SPEAKER_00]: Since then, I've kind of dialed it back a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're like eight or nine is kind of that sweet spot for me, which you said it's an improvement because they won five games, but should they be better than that under Ben Johnson in the first year?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think expectations are high.

[SPEAKER_00]: They have a good enough roster in my eyes to make the playoffs.

[SPEAKER_00]: That schedule gets tough, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: They have that stretch where they're at Baltimore, they're at Cincinnati.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they have the Eagles late in the season on Black Friday.

[SPEAKER_00]: The stand-alone game in the NFL.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's tough.

[SPEAKER_00]: They got to get out to a good start.

[SPEAKER_00]: They have, I think the first four or five in my eyes are very, very winnable.

[SPEAKER_00]: All of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: If they could get four and one in that stretch, I didn't even take like a three and two to kind of start off, but [SPEAKER_00]: I'm right now eight to nine wins is probably where I have them.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do think they can make the flyoffs.

[SPEAKER_00]: If everything kind of goes right for them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think that's fair.

[SPEAKER_01]: And my hope is they can get to ten wins.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think nine.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think nine is very probable.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think, look, if they go eight nine, I think we'll go.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was improvement and probably things are headed in the right direction.

[SPEAKER_01]: But if fans are disappointed because they had bigger expectations, I think that's totally fair.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I like I look at this north division.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's fascinating because [SPEAKER_01]: I think you could pick names out of a hat and just put them one, two, three, four, and you can make an argument for anything, including the bears winning the division, because I look at this and think there's a good chance that first place wins eleven games and last place wins the nine games in this division.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think they could all be clustered together.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the packers arguably maybe have the best coach, but also have the, I think they have the least amount of talent on the roster.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not saying they have a bad roster.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the bears might have more talent on the roster than the packers.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the lions have the most talented roster, but like you said, they lost both coordinators, they lost eight total coaches, is Dan Campbell, the rah rah guy and the coordinators did it or can Campbell handle it.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we'll see about the coaching staff.

[SPEAKER_01]: J.

J.

McCarthy, that's a good roster, but you know, who knows what they have at quarterback.

[SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, you sit there and go, well, if Kevin O'Connell did that with Sam Donald, then of course, he could do that with J.

J.

McCarthy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a really fascinating situation here.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the North is really setting up to be [SPEAKER_01]: a really tough division, the handicap.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then when you pull out one step further in terms of playoff, forget if the bears win nine, ten games, I think you have to look at it compared to everyone else.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like the South, probably Tampa wins the division again.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to argue that none of the other teams, including Atlanta are as good as the bears, okay, that's fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: but you still have Philly and Washington, maybe Dallas rebounds in the East.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have San Francisco and the Rams in the West.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then you've got everyone here in the North.

[SPEAKER_01]: So to be one of, if the Bears don't win the division, to be one of the top seven teams, you're still sitting there with everyone in the North, the losing team, so to speak in the East and the West, that don't win the division, that in theory should be in the mix for the wildcard.

[SPEAKER_01]: The bears could end up winning ten games potentially and not even making the playoffs depending on how things break out with the with the tiebreakers.

[SPEAKER_01]: So just saying all this bears team is a playoff team.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a hard ask because I think the NFC is becoming a vastly improved conference.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I said, it's not what the AFC is because the AFC is, the NFC is getting there.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's getting to that and it helps you have Jane Daniels and hopefully you have Caleb Williams and who knows about Jane McCarthy in that conference.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mean, you got to figure Washington and Philadelphia are going to get a playoff spot.

[SPEAKER_00]: probably, you know, mark those two in the winner of the West obviously, the winner of the South and the North.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there you go.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, right there.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's already what?

[SPEAKER_01]: Five of the teams.

[SPEAKER_00]: Five teams.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have to beat out Atlanta, Rams or Forty Niners.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe the cardinals are.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they played well towards the end of the year last year too.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, and you have to beat out the the Packers Vikings or Lions to the three potentially.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how it kind of shakes out.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm you're thought on this and I've been kind of floating this around and talking to some people and [SPEAKER_00]: in the NFC North and what we've been saying.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how if you had to agree with us.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the two to the top three or four most important players in that division that could dictate how the division shakes out.

[SPEAKER_00]: changing McCarthy and kill Williams because I think if both are really damn good, they could elevate both their teams to not only win the division, but let's say get to the next round of the playoffs or kind of make a running side.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think Philadelphia is going to be the favorite again.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think Washington will depending on how things go with them will be there and then, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: who knows after that, but I just, I find it just McCarthy and will, and I don't know how good McCarthy is going to be.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was not very high on him, but in terms of importance, I think to the arguably the two most important players in that division.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, look, I think that's totally fair.

[SPEAKER_01]: And looking at it from a bear's perspective, you know, if I tell you Caleb Williams through for thirty seven hundred yards, twenty two touchdowns and twelve interceptions and the bears went seven and ten, you'd be like, all right, that doesn't shock me.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I tell you Caleb Williams through for forty three hundred yards with thirty touchdowns and eight interceptions and the bears went eleven and six, you'd be like, [SPEAKER_01]: that makes a lot of sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: If he's going to play like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, and I think with JJ McCarthy, you just, you know, I know Vikings fans are really high on him, but the man has this he's entering his second rookie season.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's never thrown an NFL pass.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, there's going to be a lot of question marks there, but he does between Justin Jefferson, he's got some running backs, you know, for Madison, Kevin O'Connell, the pieces [SPEAKER_01]: We talk about, you know, we can talk about DJ Moore and Colt Comet and Colt's in love with only one.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just in Jefferson, so, you know, JJ McCarthy obviously has the pieces to succeed as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's going to be interesting how it shakes out.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know like there's a joke that bears the back to back to back all season champs, but it does feel good to be able to talk about how good this roster is and a quarter back going into a second year that [SPEAKER_00]: his potential still we don't know what he's going to be I think after Justin feels his first year we kind of a little bit of an idea of like what he could be and like he said in the previous podcast like not all his fault there are some limitations but also you know what happened with the coaching and how the bears both the roster but like we kind of feel like the sky still a limit for Caleb Williams in a way and [SPEAKER_00]: It's just nice to kind of feel that and be able to talk about this here with actually some confidence.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: And look, and I'll say this and it's unfair to put this kind of pressure on two people.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I do feel this way.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of bear's fans feel this way.

[SPEAKER_01]: That if getting the great offensive mind that has been Johnson and the number one pick town of Caleb Moons, who's not just the number one pick, but when you talk to people who evaluate college quarterbacks, [SPEAKER_01]: is one of the top five or six college quarterback prospects of this century, you know, he's he's there with Joe Burrow and he's there with Trevor Lawrence and Andrew Locken and that group of guys like he's that level of a quarterback prospect and you get that level of an offensive minded head coach.

[SPEAKER_01]: If it doesn't work with Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams, [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard for, if a bear's fan, you know, four years from now Ben Johnson is fired in Caleb Williams is on a new team and the bear's are starting over again in a bear's fan.

[SPEAKER_01]: I asked me, is it ever going to work out for the head coach quarterback for this franchise?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'd have a hard time saying yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it feels like everything is in place to work and if it doesn't work this time, Zack, I just, I throw my hands up and go, I don't know if this franchise is ever going to figure it out with the Macaski's running things.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm at.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a hundred percent with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would agree on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like this has to work.

[SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, something is just something universe is not a line that their spans will ever have a good quarterback or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's, this has to be, like I joke, you know, I joke with my wife too, like I have a three or a tsunami four year old, and I'm like, he's already seeing two bears caught up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like he's like, he's our, and I've seen, I mean, you know, you've seen tons in your life.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen tons in my life, but like this, I hope for his sake, like this is the one right here that he doesn't have to go through, essentially what we went through, you know, growing up and in the watch in this team.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so let's fingers cross this is this is the duo that finally gets it done and the bears are on the right path moving forward and you know this team's competing for a Super Bowl.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe this year but at least in the in the coming year.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there is Zach Pearson from the bear report.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can check out all his stuff is stuff there and on multiple media platforms.

[SPEAKER_01]: Zach, thanks for so much time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for doing the training camp preview with me and I'm sure we'll talk to you throughout this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anytime it's been a pleasure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for letting me do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just fun.