cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah, so we'll get started with the fast five.

First question, what's your name?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: I'm Doug Badcock.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: And Doug, what's your farm's name doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: My business is Green Lid Enterprises.

And I rent farmland various fields and things.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: and where are you located?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: This is a place called Kushi in Zambia.

If you bring it up on a map Zambia looks a bit like a butterfly, and where the Congo drops down into Zambia, are right at that point.

So we, we are only about 20 kilometers as the crow flies from the Congo, but cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: bit of the Congo that pokes into that can give your listeners a reference if they look it up.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: and go ahead and tell us where to find Zambia because I'm betting there's a certain number of listeners.

It's like, where do I even start in Africa to find it?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Okay, so we, we, you, you'd probably say Central Zambia.

Most people will know South Africa.

It's probably the biggest economy in, in Africa was once, and then above that, sit Zimbabwe.

And then above Zimbabwe is Zambia and it's a landlocked country.

We've got Tanzania to the.

Oh, this is tricky.

To the one side and then the other side we've got Angola and Botswana, Namibia.

There's all little, little borders.

So cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: didn't know you were gonna have to do geography today.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: I didn't wanna, yeah.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: And what livestock species do you graze?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: coal, mainly cattle.

But I, I've dabbled in dairy goats before, but they've gone and I currently have a few pigs and a, and a few sheep.

And then my other business is bananas.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

And what year did you start grazing animals?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Well, I came back to the family farm in 2013, about this time in 2013, and, and so I, I became the farm manager and cattle livestock were.

Part of my job, for the first few years I didn't really take an interest in it.

I did the job and like my recording in those days was like a calf.

I don't think I recorded what gender it was cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: said that cow had a calf and, gave it a number, and that was about as much as I used to do.

But yeah, seriously, I I, I, I found it, it was a passion of mine and probably about.

2017, I think was when I realized, Hey, I actually enjoy this a lot.

Cal: Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.

The podcast dedicated to sharing the stories of grass-based livestock producers, exploring regenerative practices that improve the land animals and our lives.

I'm your host, Cal Hardage and each week we'll dive into the journeys, challenges, and successes of producers like you, learning from their experiences, and inspiring each other to grow, and graze better.

Whether you're a seasoned grazier or just getting started.

This is the place for you.

Ranchers, farmers and landowners, if you're looking to optimize your grazing operation and boost your bottom line, Noble Research Institute can help the noble approach to education pairs their own infield research with the expertise of ranch managers and advisors to find practical solutions to your unique challenges.

In July, Noble's in-person courses will head into new areas.

Join them in McKenzie, North Dakota, July 15th through the 16th for Noble Land Essentials.

And in Pendleton, Oregon, July 30th through 31st for Noble Profitability Essentials.

The expansion doesn't stop there.

Later this year, they'll be in Winter Garden, Florida with the Business of Grazing.

And right now, each of these two day courses is $50 off the regular price.

The pricing is available for a limited time, so take advantage of the savings and visit noble.org to learn more about the courses and enroll today.

For 10 seconds about the farm, it's raining enough said for 10 seconds about the podcast.

You know, last week we talked about the Grazing Grass Resources.

Finally got it launched and going, of course that's not without problems.

I had people go sign up.

But when you sign up for an account, it's sending an email.

And that email is ending up in your spam or junk folder.

Try and figure out how to solve it.

But if you signed up for an account and you need to verify your account, go check in your junk or spam folder, and then you'll be able to get in and make an account.

Also added.

One other thing, if you wanna add a resource that you don't need to get in to edit later, like I'm going to be adding the books that are recommended on the podcast to the resources.

If I don't own that or it's not my business, my farm, you can just go to submit a listing and scroll to the bottom of the page and there is a form that you can submit it without creating an account.

So there's two ways to to add a account.

One is just to submit it.

That's for things that you will not ever go back to edit.

Like if I wanted to submit it on behalf of like Redmond, I could go in, submit it, and then it's on there.

And then when Redmond wants it edited and updated, um, they can contact me and I can do that.

On the other hand, for my farm, I want to create a account and go in and, and add my listing, and that way I have the ability to edit it later on.

So if you haven't visited the Grazing Grass Resources, I encourage you to do so.

If you haven't added a resource there, your own one, you recommend, go do that.

We want this to be something that's beneficial for the community, and I've talked way too long about that.

Let's get back to talking to Doug.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: When you were growing up, did you think you'd come back to the farm?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: I, I did always think that I would end up being a farmer.

My dad has always been a tobacco farmer.

Very good tobacco farmer, but he also has many other Just tobacco here makes.

Quite a lot of money compared to the other cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: so that's his passion.

And, and also my brothers actually both grow tobacco.

I, I never saw myself as a livestock farmer, although in junior school my project that I chose to do was about beef cattle, which is really weird that I've cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: come the full circle and ended up back there.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.

What.

when you came back to the farm, you said at first you weren't that interested in grazing.

What got you interested in it?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Well, it's not that I wasn't that interested.

I, I just, I had so many other jobs, cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: and also cattle.

As an enterprise, it's probably the least profitable, least.

Amount of turnover for the whole farm.

So, so we tended not to spend a lot of time thinking about it.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Right.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: But yeah, what, when I got interested, actually, my father had sent me across to a neighbor who was doing ai.

And we are, we are a little bit in the sticks here.

So things like AI and stuff is, is.

Generally, even now, still quite rare.

I went over to his farm and I saw what a, what a livestock farm looks like, and it was natural and beautiful and I don't know, I just got a good feeling there.

Whereas on our farm, everything is very orderly, straight lines and, and yeah, not much natural vegetation.

There's a lot, I suppose, compared to many places, but for me personally, I felt like we, we had cleared too much land and put in crops and stuff.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: That, that brings to mind a, a question for most of our listeners.

Describe what we're looking at when we're in Zambia.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Okay.

It's quite a if there weren't crops and stuff, it would be quite a woody, especially where we are in this part of the country.

Other parts have certain, like grasslands and stuff, but cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: it's, it's quite cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And you can get some really big trees and stuff.

Probably the best way for people to see what I talk about would for be for them to, to go and have a look on my Facebook page.

I, I do quite a lot on social media.

And yeah, it's I, I really like our environment.

Most people say it's not really a cattle environment, but.

I, I, I do pretty well, I think, and, and I'm happy here.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Also Just speaking.

of your Facebook account, and we'll probably bring this up, be later on, but Calvin visited you and did a YouTube video.

That's really good.

Also, I.

We'll, we'll put a link in notes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.

Kelvin ti from Zimbabwe.

Okay.

Yes.

I'll, we can maybe link that cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah, we'll put that in our show notes.

And I, I always think Calvin is the cool spelling for Calvin.

I.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yes.

Yeah.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I this is completely off topic.

I used to work in elementary or in schools and I'd get a lot of mail coming in.

I had salesman call in quite a bit, but I got this one piece of mail in and instead of Cal, they had me as Cal.

And and they, they didn't even have my last name, correct.

It was Cal Hughes and I'm like, that's the cooler version of Cal Hardy's, you know?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: The easier cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.

Yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Like, that's, that's crazy.

I don't even know where they got that.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: even know where.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Anyway, we'll put a link to Kelvin's video in the show notes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah, he did a wonderful job.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: He did?

Yes.

Win.

When we think about Africa, and I say we, I'm in middle of America, middle of the United States, and I'm thinking of it, I'm thinking lions and tigers.

The predators you have over there.

Do you have to deal with predators?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: No I don't.

Many years ago, probably before the sixties, there used to be wild animals in, in this sort of area.

Elephants and probably leopards quite a lot.

'cause we do have sort of rocky outcrops, which leopards favor.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: oh yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: But these days, no, we do have jackals and rabies as quite a, a worry.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: But I, I don't think I've had a, in the 11 or 12 years I've been here, I don't think I've had a case of rabies yet.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: They're not that bad and they don't, we don't have calves missing or anything like that.

I'm, so, I'm sure certain parts of the area and different parts of the country have much more pressure from cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: other things cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.

Well, I wanted to get that outta the way because I.

knew that's a question I immediately have when I talk to anyone from Africa.

Those predator animals just seem like a lot to deal with.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah, we, we quite, so I'm quite central in the country.

And then usually the, a lot of the national parks and stuff where they do have wild animals and things, they're sort of on the borders or next to big cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: or stuff.

And that, yeah, quite far away at the moment.

But I do, I do follow quite a few cattle ranches and stuff that do ranch out with elephants and lions and.

Yeah.

That's quite cool.

I, I sort of wish I could, and at the same time I know that I, I wouldn't want any of my calves going missing and, cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: R.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: and stuff.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Right.

I totally get that.

It'd be cool to see, cool to be around that.

Cool to, for the natural environment to be there.

But at the same time, you don't wanna, you're already working on low profit margins, so why cause more problems there?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: yeah.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: You know, when when you got back.

to a farm, you'd mentioned.

Your dad raises tobacco.

Your brothers are there, and you all had cattle, but cattle just was, was kind of there because most of the other parts of The farm and enterprise took the time.

How was cattle managed at that time and how has your management of your cattle evolved involved?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: So, so yeah, it was, I would say it was very conventionally managed.

my father used what he learned at, at agricultural college when he was there.

And yeah, basically followed the same sort of.

Conventional wisdom.

And for our, our area, it's or Africa.

It's carving sort of a few months before the rain arrives.

And breeding for long, having long carving seasons, if not the whole Europes most, or a lot of cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: especially the smaller small scale guys.

'cause they, they can't the bulls anywhere.

But yeah, my father used to do 90 days breeding and they would arrive in sort of September, which is like, just as it gets to the hottest time of year.

And we do get hot here and dry the forage is like eating cardboard I think for them.

Unless you have cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: of crops or silage or hay or something.

And yeah, they, the here.

For security reasons, a lot of farmers will, will herd their cattle in the day with, with herds, and then at night they get locked into a paddock usually that's quite close to a, a farmstead or something.

I'm very fortunate I'm surrounded by other commercial farmers, so they're sort of my buffer one.

So since I started taking interest in cattle and, and once I did get an interest, I sort of realized that I had to pick one sort of.

Personality to follow because there were many cattlemen in the area and they all have different ideas on how things should be cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And yeah, we had some great older generation farmers and they, they were successful and stuff, but I dunno how I ended up with the Hansman book, which I hear you cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: most podcasts mention him and yeah, I was very fortunate somehow.

Well, through guys in Zambia, and, and he had just also moved to Zambia himself.

We, we, we linked up somehow and actually my first year that I kept my own herd of cattle.

I managed to get semen suggested by him, although I only had a small herd at that time.

I, I used, for the first two years I was using semen, he had organized for me cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: other friends.

And so yeah, basically from that moment I sort of started changing things.

I try and not keep the cattle in a crawl at night because generally it's in the dry season.

It's very dusty cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: and horrible and in the wet seasons up to their bellies and mud and flies and ticks and also horrible.

So I started keeping them with electric fencing that hadn't happened until.

Until I started reading Johan's books and, and, and also seeing friends doing it and stuff.

And that sort of changed a lot for me.

And, and then, yeah, trying to get this high density grazing going.

I don't do it all the time, but certain times of the years and stuff where I, I practice it.

And then, yeah, changing the breeding season, I went from 90 days on my own herd.

I was only doing about 45 days.

But I'm, I'm I took over my father's herd about a year and a half ago, and so to amalgamate the two herds, I'm, I'm using 60 days at the moment, but cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: get back to 40, 45 as quick as possible.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.

With your electric fences, you mentioned a little bit of high density grazing.

Are you moving them every day?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: on every day?

Y yes, at certain times of the year.

Depends what we are doing.

Like at the moment we are on my father also grows a lot of what we would call seed MAs, but for you guys, seed corn, cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And it's, it's harvested by hand.

So the cattle do very well on there.

So they're actually on there now, even though the bush generally is still quite green and we have a lot of diversity, thousands of different plants and stuff, some reason they just do so much better on, on the maize stove.

So I've got them on there.

Well, what, what you would call stalks, I think I call it sto or cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And yeah, so there on there we are probably moving at least.

Four times a day at the moment, and then at night putting them into a grass paddock.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh So you're doing pretty high density right now.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: yeah, I've done some very, very high densities in the past and I've seen its effects.

And the one year I.

Yeah, I hurt myself quite a lot.

Condition dropped.

wouldn't think a week of, of high density grazing could, could do so much damage if, if done wrong.

But you've gotta look at what, what's your goal?

What's, what are you trying to do?

And that, that paddock that I really hammered was a very horrible paddock.

It's actually where they're sleeping at night now, which people could see on my page.

But yeah, I was literally moving the, the fence like.

Three or four meters at the cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: to get them to really, either well utilize the forage, either eat it or tra it.

And, and yeah, that it, it responded well, the paddock, but the, the cows definitely didn't do well.

There's not much in that grass, what we call Spiros.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Were you able to?

identify that pretty soon, or was there quite a bit of delay before you saw that the cows weren't doing as well as they should?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Straight cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Mm-hmm.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And, and also another.

Another year I had actually taken on a herd of Sussex from a, a very good cattle farmer, Mr.

Wyatt, the late Mr.

Wyatt, he was 94 when I took the herd over.

And a friend of.

I kept them at a separate farm and a friend close there asked if I could use my cattle to knock back all the grass around his house and stuff in the, in what I call the bush.

I, yeah, I let my herdsman manage that and I didn't really think it through because a lot of those were cal cows and were due to go to the, abattoir.

And yeah, we did it not for very long and I think I really lost some, some.

Easy money there by throwing cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: right at the cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yeah, I lost some condition on those animals.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.

But at the same time, it taught me that my abattoir, he pays on a dressed weight.

And, and I can sell to other people who will take it on a live weight.

so I've learned through that process that I'm better off selling my cattle for addressed weight when they're nice and fat and plump.

if, if I can see any bones or anything sell it to someone else who'll take it on a live weight off the cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

But you know, all those experiences, even when we mess something up and I'm quite fond of messing stuff up before I get it right.

And, but they're learning experiences and they improve our ability to manage our animals in our grass in the future.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah try and take take everything as a, an opportunity to learn something.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yes.

So one thing I wanted to talk about there, you mentioned they're losing some condition on those Sussex, and then just the management of the high density, but let's talk about your forage base, doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: about your cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: all native grasses.

What grasses are you growing there?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Cal.

I'm not very good.

I do know enough to get by.

So a lot of forms would probably have like paddocks and stuff for cattle, but we.

Cattle in my area, cattle let me just maybe diverge a bit, but cattle here, generally a lot of farmers make their money on irrigated crops and thing, high value cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: like tobacco or macadamia nuts or but they'll just keep a herd of cattle security to get around all the edges of their farms and also to knock back the natural grasses because every year it's like a.

A Zambian sport to see how much we can light of the country.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And it, it's very hard to try and stop it.

It, it's almost like a cultural thing.

And for various reasons from just from making it easier to walk through the, the, the felt to trying to catch wildlife.

So poaching or something, a lot of.

Fires or even mistakes guy, guys on duty the night workers making a fire and then forgetting to put it on in the morning.

So Karl, I've lost what, what you actually asked me there.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Well, Your grass is there.

But you bring up a great point about the fires.

We're gonna have to talk about it in a minute too.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah, so, so we, we've got, we are get, it gets mentioned quite a lot in your podcasts and, and other cattle podcasts.

And your book talks about a lot sour felt.

So we've got very tall grasses easily 10 foot in some places but it does not carry a lot of nutrition.

It's very lignified quite quickly after the rain stop.

But fortunately there are quite a lot of legumes and Forbes and things like that that generally can help.

But yeah, in Hans book he talks a lot about with the taller your grasses, the smaller your cattle need to be, and yeah, so I'm trying to.

I'm trying to follow that line of thinking.

But some people do grow pastures and things.

Just we, we've never really had space for that and cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: in the cropping because my dad started off from fresh in 20 2008.

Basically there's no space to rest lands and stuff.

He has to double crop most lands if he's got the water for irrigation.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

Yeah.

Just speaking of water, when's your precipitation come down?

And I'm assuming you have a rainy season with a long dry period.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yes, correct.

So we cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: generally rain will start, you might get a shower in October, but generally it'll start in December, end of November and it'll carry on till sort of the end of March.

And cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: shower late or something.

But.

in that period, and I mean, generally we are supposed to be above a thousand mills of rain.

Sorry, I dunno, the cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I think that's about 40 doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: But in the years I've been which is about 12 years now, we've had very bad seasons up until sort of the last two or three.

They've normalized, I would cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Do you get the majority or all of that thousand mill during that rainy season?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yes.

Yeah.

So we can get, big, yeah.

In a week we can almost get a few hundred mills and then we can have a, a period of dry where it just disappears and you think, well, didn't I just get a few hundred mills a, a week ago?

And, and the, cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: it's all just disappeared.

So a lot of people here, especially in this area, have dams for irrigation on the rivers.

So they dam they catch the, the water, the runoff, yeah.

And then other, other farmers on bigger rivers that are perennial, they can pump straight out of the rivers.

But yeah, here we, we impound it.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Do you have any water impounded on your place, or are you just relying upon all the natural precipitation?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: No, we, so my dad quite quickly with tobacco, you, you want, you, you want to have a few different crops and so we'll have like a, a, an irrigated crop, a sort of middle crop where it gets supplemented with what if there's a cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: a dry land crop, which is just rain fed.

Just because the facilities to to handle tobacco are quite an investment, so you wanna spread it out as much as you can.

And, and so he, he built a dam here, which is shed between four other farmers.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.

And that can give us about hectares of, of winter crop and, and probably.

In the, in the rainy season, we just supplement things to, like bring up the maze, the corn, we'll just water once or twice to get it up.

And once it's up then we wait for the rain.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah, doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And so, yeah.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: with your, your forages there, you're, you're gonna get a lot of growth in a short period of time.

So, so that means majority of your year you're grazing, stockpiled, or mature forages.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah, generally yeah, we, we struggle in the, once the rains come the cattle can't get around fast enough.

And I haven't really, every year I don't have a plan.

My, I, I change what I'm doing and, and graze different areas and, and stuff, but I'm, I think I'm way, way under stocked, so it doesn't really matter.

Too cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Especially now once upon a time I was, I was only leasing 300 hectares and then that was quite tight.

I, that's why I had to be ruthless with cow cows and things.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: With so much of your forage in a mature state or stockpiled for a large portion of the year.

You mentioned fires.

Do you do any strategic grazing so that maybe the fires don't affect you as much?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah, gen generally.

Definitely I'll try and do that when I can.

Graze along fence line boundaries and like heavily graze or put the night camp there.

The night camp tends to always get the hardest work by the cattle, manure, and cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Right.

Yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.

But yeah, we do, I, I, I don't know a tractor yet but I, I've taken over a new lease about, well, I started in March and that's a thousand hectares and I'll have to start doing fire breaks there where we either dis areas to, to slow down a fire and then, or maybe even burn sections, just to, to make it a cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: gap between paddocks or whatever.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I think over here there's more and more areas that have to do something and be more aware of it.

We're usually aware of it during the time that fires happen late summer here for us, but it's usually not too big a problem.

Or you get into late winter when everything's just so dry.

You.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.

Yeah.

And that it is a big problem in Zambia and like I said earlier, luckily we are surrounded by other cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: So we are quite lucky that gen and, and we've got a good community here.

So if we did have a major problem, we haven't ever, in the years I've been here, we've managed most things and, and quite often I'm not grazing the say that bush or, or, or whatever.

And it's usually just before the rains arrive.

So it actually sometimes does us a favor to let it cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And then the rains come and a just beautiful flush of young, cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: grasses and stuff.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: You know that that's always something that's really pretty as sea, is that growth after a burn.

It just looks so nice out there.

I doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: But I do with high ultra density grazing, like if I sleep them in certain spots and stuff, I, I get a, a cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: after that.

Just at the moment, I can't get around fast enough to, to do it to the whole farm or, or all the land I can grow.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Now with, with grazing those acres and stuff, how's water access?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Water access.

It's something that's starting to bite me now as my herd gets bigger.

Even, even to, to be honest the herd's actually sleeping in my garden tonight and I was trying to provide water for them and, and I not, I, I just.

haven't got the resources here.

Usually in Zambia, people don't actually do like piping and, and, and troughs and cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: except around maybe their farm's dead.

Most cattle will drink out of rivers and streams and dams and lakes if they've got them which is not ideal.

And yeah, we get a, we've got a heavy parasite load.

So I, I've tried in the past to try and organize.

and troughs and things, but I need more work on that.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: So are you making your paddocks whenever you're moving them?

Are you leaving a lane to water or are you making it big enough so that they includes some access to water?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: No.

Generally we don't have lanes and stuff yet, but we move around so much that they're not, they tend cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: walk on the same lines back.

It'll be from a, be grazing and then they'll have to walk to the water from, from that area.

And, and yeah, we try and, and graze away from the water so that they're not walking over fresh forage and and cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: But yeah, like I say, we've been on may corn stalks for.

About a month already.

So, and we'll probably be here till December with a few breaks.

We, we grow wheat and there's a bit of tiff this year.

And then, yeah, we have other resources, like when the dam does start dropping I've got quite a number of hectares of, of grass, which does really well, that water was as it drops, it's like an irrigated field cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And I can get a number of grazings off that and.

So there's a few different things I can lay around with.

I also have macadamia orchards.

If I was organized with electric fencing, I can get in there and generally has nice grass because there is irrigation and there is shade, a lot of shade from the trees.

And so, yeah, I, I can move around stuff.

But generally they, they're on corn stalks for quite a long period of the cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: months.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Now with your, your banana plants, do cattle ever graze that area or is the cattle completely off of that area?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: No.

So I, I only became a banana farmer about a year and a half cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: took over a, an operation that was already in bananas, and I've doubled, tripled that with some plantings.

And yeah, I, I put cattle in 130 bulls.

I grazed through my.

that I planted in January of 2024.

And yeah, they were just very high density and just for probably an hour or something on, on, I worked it out once, it was about 0.05 of a hectare, 130 cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: and as soon as the forage was finished, there was a multi-species cover crop that I had planted.

soon as they were finished, they moved into the next strip.

And I went through like that.

I had, I had eight hectares available of that, and it, yeah.

I didn't, they weren't on that alone.

Usually I would graze them for the morning in, on the, in the natural grasses and then bring them onto there, like a supplement kind of thing.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.

Yeah.

With your, your cattle, you'd mentioned earlier that you all were, Kev, your dad was ke a a couple months ahead of the raining season.

Is that still in your kev or have you adjusted your Kev season?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: No, I adjusted straightaway and, and when I started my own herd in 20, 20, 20 was my first calf crop.

And, and yeah, I, I dropping calves on Christmas Eve that, that year.

But I, I, I've moved it away from Christmas a few days later just so that it didn't interfere too much with the, the festivities.

Not, not that I do a lot myself at carving, but it, it's still I like to be around and, and see what's happening and stuff.

So, yeah.

But I, I, I think I'm actually on a, on a trajectory to move it forward.

Now I'm coming back I think I was just adding a little bit too long and now I wanna move it forward, but, you know, that's quite difficult especially if you're only doing a 45 day season.

So I'm gonna jump forward in about a week.

Over the next two years, I want to get it so that I start my breeding on 1st of March instead of like, this year is the 15th of cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

Yeah.

Move that forward a little.

Yeah.

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com cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: So to get started, what breed did your dad run?

I.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: So my dad was running the boron.

I dunno if you've cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I have, yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah, the boron.

And that is actually probably the majority, certainly of like-minded farmers who run boron in this cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: And, and just to, doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And, and cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I know I've heard of them, but I'm not super familiar.

They're a medium sized, they've been bred for improved beef production.

They still have a ebu look to 'em though.

Somewhat.

Not as, not as much as zebu, but still some.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: No, they, they are very cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: a big hump.

Yeah, very, very ebo.

Big hump, big sheath.

it's like a, a squashed brahman.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: I hope I say that cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.

Just beefier.

And they're from East Africa originally the South African, like Zambia's, not a very organized beef or cattle industry here.

There are a few stud breeders and stuff registered herds, but not, not too many.

South Africa is way, way more.

Organized in cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: sectors.

And yeah, they, they're trying to improve.

They've got a lot of feedlots and stuff in, in South Africa, and they're trying to improve the boron, which in some people's eyes is not what should happen, but they are getting bigger animals to satisfy the, the feedlots because farmers were previously being penalized for supplying those or other indigenous cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Is the biggest hit on those borons?

Is it their size or is there other negatives that.

That people are not fans of.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah, I think they, they, they very I wanna say early maturing, but in, in the fact that they put on fat easily.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: than, so, so if you started feeding, so when we, when I first came to the farm as well, my dad would wean seven months or so, and then those calves would basically go straight into a feedlot and then, and then as soon as they fat enough would be sold to the abattoir or something.

And in those days we only got about 380.

be, would be like a heavy animal cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: okay.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: That is, and that's not very big at all.

So one of the things I did once I started paying a bit more attention, attention on the cattle was I delayed putting them into the feed lock.

Since we've got all the grazing and crops and stuff, it's not like we short.

So now.

So instead of selling animals at about a year old, we now sell them at about two years old.

And so the frame's much bigger, but still they, once they go into a feedlot, they put on fat very quickly.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Whereas we've had Angus in the feedlot or Sussex, and they could sort of, they can just, you could carry on feeding them and they'll still grow.

Whereas with a boron, you, if you feed over 120 days, you're basically wasting your money.

It's just getting fatter and fatter.

A bit like a pig probably.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: very interesting.

A lot like me at a dessert buffet.

I'm sure.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Oh, I can't speak Cal, cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: So have you stuck with, doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: have With cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Boran?

Borans?

Tell me, say that again.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: so.

Boron.

I, I say boron, but other, other people in Africa will say it cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Okay.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: yeah, probably I should listen to the Kenyans, but I don't, I don't really know many cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: since it comes from that area.

So when I went to visit that neighbor about the AI and, and saw the, the natural farmland without crops and stuff, the, the, the previous year we had sent in some of those small, small borons for slaughter and the abattoir in, in our capital city.

Lusaka said, these are too small and they're not ready yet, so we'll have to feed them some more.

So the money that we were gonna pay you, we'll have to.

to buy finished animals from someone else then we'll be able to pay you half in about three or four months and then the other half in however long.

So that's when my dad said, no, this, this is not, we can't cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Go and see our friend Mr.

The Lake Paul Dobson and go and see what he's AIing.

He was getting some Red Angus, I believe it was from Canada.

I can't remember cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: We, so we followed suit and, and we did 50 cows that year in 2017.

It was, yeah, we had a really good result.

I think 38 of them came out as red Angus Cross Boron.

And yeah, those did really well through, through our system.

And, and yeah, at at Slaughter they were, well, well through their life they were at least a hundred kgs cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: than cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Now when I think about Borans, I think they're red mainly, aren't they?

No, Okay.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: they, they very, yeah.

You get a lot of like, I know some farmers that select for red cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Oh.

Yeah.

And in South Africa, like I think in the states, you guys like black cattle.

In the feedlot cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: premiums for black cattle.

South Africa, they like red cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: and so, so they get premiums for red cattle and discounted for black ones and different colored ones.

So people do try and breed quite a lot of red cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, Explains it.

yeah, doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: they're multicolored.

I would say mine is split.

I've got gray or white borons.

I've got red ones, I've got mottled ones, carkey colored, and but yeah, they, they, and now all the big fad in South Africa is to choose these multicolored ones which look very similar to another breed called Uni with fancy hides.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: So is your herd still predominantly?

Borans?

Borans?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: No, Cal, so, so the main herd that my, so, so my herd, so I run all the cows now and my dad only manages the feed lot, basically.

And I pay him, I, I, we made a system where I buy his cows off him by paying him in kgs of, of wieners in, well, they're not wieners anymore, but animals into his cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And so, so his herd was predominantly boron.

There were a few of those.

Red Angus are still there.

If they've carved every year, they're still there.

there was quite a lot of Sussex.

I put a Sussex, I bought him a for his birthday in, well, a farm bought him for his birthday in 2018, I think it was a Sussex bull.

And, and he was put in the wrong herd and managed to cover 36 out of 40 of my empty cows in, in one month.

So we got a lot of those females in the hood.

And that's quite a popular cross in Zambia.

A lot of people try and use the Sussex cross indigenous reeds.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I see In Africa.

I see it in Australia, but I don't know that there's ine steel in the United States.

I think they were imported at one time, but I don't know if we have any active breeders here.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah, I don't, I actually haven't thinking about it, I haven't heard much about, I, I hear red pole and South cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: maybe even some Devons, cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Right.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: So I, I just got mine mainly because there was a, a very old farmer, 94 years old, and he was looking to disperse the herd, and in those days the prices were so low and.

He was basically gonna get slaughter price and, and, and I thought I could take them on.

So we did.

But to be honest they haven't lasted in the herd.

I, I was tight for grazing in those days, so I had to be ruthless.

And also, yeah, they, they were the ones which were always sick when, when we had cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: go through the herd.

They were the ones that showed the signs.

We had lumpy skin disease.

There was a Sussex always that went down first, so they were quite a good a warning system.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: generally our, in our indigenous breeds, if they do get sick, they don't really take a toll on the herd.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: So what, what are your indigenous breeds in your area?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: So I would say boron is now considered an indigenous reload.

Wasn't here before Farmers were here.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: there's Tuli here, but that's that was a breed developed in Zimbabwe.

Tuli is TULI, I think it's quite popular in South America at the moment, or it's gaining ground in cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: So that's a Sanger breed.

Like an African tourist breed.

We've got the Anni, which is an even smaller Zebo breed like a miniature so Mauna is like a miniature tulle almost.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: compact animal, and that's, Mauna is also a Sanger breed whereas the Anni is very similar to that.

But it's, it's definitely Zebu got more of a hump yeah, they haven't been developed quite as much as the ANA have over the years.

There's very few.

Farms that have used them as a, as a beef animal.

Uh uh, and there are some other indigenous breeds in other parts of the country, but because I don't have access to them, I haven't decided to cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

So what would you consider your base cow herd now?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: So I'm, I'm breeding for the majority of angoni cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: and Goni Goni?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: two years I've had a, a big portion of my sis have been anni and so that's spelled A-N-G-O-N-I.

And that's, there's a, there's another breed that Anni from South Africa, which cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Well, I've heard of that breed.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yes.

Yeah.

So yeah, they, they're quite similar.

But again, in Goni is a Sanga breed, and Anni is a Zebo breed.

so they both have, I, I do have both.

The, my herd now is very mixed.

A lot of the European ones that I've even used Aberdeen Angus in the past.

They, they've all dropped out generally.

And I've seen, you know, I, I've watched a herd of anni since I came to Kushi, and, and that's where I, I've seen how well they've done.

So that's why I'm pushing in that direction.

Especially for my systems.

There's other farmers that can afford to make hay and silage and stuff like that, and, and they, they can do well with other bigger breeds.

But, but for the way I'm farming as a young farmer now I've started with the small ones.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Are you AIing them to anything or are you just using on Goonie On them?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Just natural bulls at the moment.

I would love to, to take my own bulls straws and, and do AI myself, but I'm still, I need to learn how to do that and go for some training and stuff.

So.

Hopefully I'll get to that one day.

But for now, I, I, I, I do also keep some of my own bulls and, and use them from, from 1-year-old.

I just put them with the cows When it's cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: they might not, they might not do much at one year, but at least they, they, they're seeing will be required of them the next year.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah, I, I'm a big fan of raising your own bulls because then you get an animal that's used to your environment, you're picking from your best genetics, and I'm doing some line breeding.

Then doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.

Yeah.

I saw quote, I think cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: on one of the groups, Johan posted a quote and, and I think it was something like this by Johan Zisman.

He said inbreeding is okay if.

If nature is doing the, the breeding, but as soon as man gets involved, that's where, where inbreeding becomes a bit of a problem.

Line breeding and cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.

Yeah.

that that line between inbreeding and line breeding's pretty blurred.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah, I get a, I get asked a lot, especially by new sort of cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: farmers and stuff, they ask me how I, how do I separate my bull?

Because I, I just have a huge multi si herd.

I don't have separate herds breeding to different bulls.

So, yeah, I get it asked a lot and, and generally they're very confused when I say I, I don't worry about it.

I don't care.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Actually, we usually keep, we raise a few bulls that we use on our own herd.

I do the same thing with our sheep.

We keep the best rams and we use 'em on the flock and the, like you said, the question I get from people all the time, how do you keep 'em from breeding?

They're moms, their sisters.

I don't, I just let nature take care of it.

The best animals stay in the herd.

The ones that aren't get cold.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and also I think as I get better, 'cause I did have a whole, a very good bull battery a few years ago, but I moved them, I, I moved areas 800 kilometers south.

And then when I.

And then that didn't really work out.

So I came back to this area and you're not allowed to move livestock out of that area.

So I had to slaughter all those bulls.

I'm basically starting again.

About two years ago I started breeding again, my own bulls.

So once I do have a decent bull battery, I won't keep anything that's sort of over three years cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: their sons must be better off than they cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.

They, they should be.

And if they're not, you gotta change what you're doing doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Let's go ahead.

and move to the famous four questions.

Same four questions we ask of all of our guests.

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cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Our first question, what's your favorite grazing grass related book or resource?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Oh, Cal, I think I'm gonna have to say Han Ziemans book Man Cattle and Felt I try and read it at least twice a year.

I've bought a copy for my Zambian herdsman herd manager.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And then I'm very fortunate to be in touch personally and on many of his groups that are worldwide.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, very good.

Excellent resource.

And I, I think everyone should read it.

Yes, or listen to it.

It's available as audio book, which works out really nice as well.

Our second question, what's your favorite tool for the farm?

I.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Ooh, Cal, my favorite tool, oh, who?

I'll probably go with motorbike.

I, I just here, I would love to have a quad bike, a four wheeler, but, or a side by side.

But, but they're not really popular here cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: But we use motorbikes and, and yeah.

I love the adventure of riding on a and generally that's the easiest way to find the cattle in the bush.

'cause there's no roads and, cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

Very good, doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: treks.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: very good.

I, I see motorbikes used in a lot of different countries.

You don't see 'em around here much, but other countries.

I see it.

Our third question, what would you tell someone?

Just getting started?

I.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Ooh.

I, I would say try and find your passion and, and don't force things.

If, if.

You want to do something and it's not your passion.

It's never, I don't think it'll ever really work out.

One, once I realized cattle was my, my passion and, and my, my spark I've never looked back.

And, and also like the weight went off my shoulders once I realized that, because I knew it didn't matter if if I got chased out of this country or something happened and I had to go to another country, I don't care.

I could survive if, if I could.

That's enough for cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

Well, very good.

Lastly, where can others find out more about you?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Cal.

I'll direct them to my page, which is Green Lid Enterprises.

My personal profile, I try and keep as a, as a personal profile on Facebook.

I am on Instagram, but not so much because Facebook is way more popular in Zambia.

And then I'm an amateur YouTuber at the cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: a lot of people were telling me that I should be on there.

So I'm starting on YouTube, but I'm also on there at Green Lid Enterprises.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: All right.

We will put those links in our show notes.

And before you go, doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Thanks, Kyle.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: you have a question for me?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Ooh, cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Cal what, what breed have you not tried that you would like to try one day, even if it's impossible to get it?

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Well, I, doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Well, cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: love the, the English red breeds, Sussex.

If I could find them here, I would try 'em because I feel like that falls into that same vein as Red, Angus Red Pole, Devin, that that whole family of English red breeds, otherwise.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: you'd be able to get straws cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: UK or something.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: And, doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah, cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: the, The other one that's getting more popular is doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: more, cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Ness here.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I'm really a fan of the red.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: a fan cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: medium sized animal, and I think that just all fits.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Okay.

Well, I'm actually, I was born in Mac Land where the, where the ANA cattle come cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, yes.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Many years ago.

I used to live in, in Zimbabwe.

This is a little side fact.

I would love to also try them, but yeah, we've got, we've got our own ones, the north of the Zambezi, our own breeds that cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: here cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.

Now you mentioned something just real quick.

you mentioned about livestock movement.

You can't move livestock.

very far.

Is that for disease?

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.

Certain parts of the country, there's different diseases and things that people don't want to spread and.

They don't really have a, a solution for it, and I think people don't wanna be held accountable for, so they just leave it.

The eastern part of the country can't move their cattle, which is where actually the gon breed originates from.

Although there are some in Mozambique, Malawi, Tanzania very cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: in Zambia it's the eastern province and there's a river that they cannot move live animals across cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: that's been in force for 70 years or cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah, you used to, in the states, doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: the states cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: different states have different.

rules and sometimes.

Like I'm near Kansas, and Kansas was Bruce Osis free, but Oklahoma wasn't.

We were, it seems like we were a type C and at that time, any cattle going from Oklahoma had to be tested or something.

I know we sold in Kansas and stuff would have to be marked and then it'd have to be tested or just go for slaughter.

Yep.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: so even where we can move, we still have to have all tests for foot and mouth, east Coast Fever, which is a tick-borne disease, and another one now has come in quite badly called CBPP, which something bovine, something pneumonia, very deadly.

And cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: okay.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: come in and slaughter whole herds or farms if you, if you get any positive cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: So we, yeah, we are very cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Well.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: how we move animals.

cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Doug, I know you're need to go.

I appreciate you coming on.

and sharing with us today.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: I'm glad we managed to make it work.

I'm really sorry that I'm so unorganized and, cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: you're great.

You're great.

doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: minute.com.

Cal: Thank you for listening to this episode of the grazing grass podcast, where we bring you stories and insights into grass-based livestock production.

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Keep on grazing grass.