cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: So we will get started with the fast five.

First question, what's your name squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: My name's Alex cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: and what's the name of your farm squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: Farm.

Name is Chucktown Acres, cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: and where are you located?

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: Charleston, South Carolina.

cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: And what species or livestock do you have on your farm?

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: We have, we have grass fed beef cattle that we buy in.

We have Berkshire hogs that we raise.

We do Cornish cross broilers, we've got laying hens, we do Thanksgiving turkeys.

my wife bought a couple of ducks from Tractor Supply the other day, so they have to go on the list.

We have two dogs, one cat one feral cat, and then, Did I say geese?

We cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: I don't think you did.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: have one female.

Brown Chinese goose, cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: Oh, yes.

Well, squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: Four humans as well.

cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: so it sounds like you have quite the oo going on.

Yeah.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: Yes, cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: What, squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: a oo cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: yeah.

What year did you start grazing animals?

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: Oh.

I reckon you could say that I started in 2016.

It feels a little bit cheating because I started my internship at Polyface Farms in Virginia, so they kind of brought me into their own thing.

I had cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: I was doing, but I did start working with livestock then.

So, if moving broiler pins every day counts as grazing, then let's say 2016.

cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: I, I think it counts.

You're out there, you're doing something, and when you moved it, there was less grass there.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: Yes, cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: sure what the chickens did to it, but Yeah, squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: A lot cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: it qualifies.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: a little less grass.

Cal: Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.

The podcast dedicated to sharing the stories of grass-based livestock producers, exploring regenerative practices that improve the land animals and our lives.

I'm your host, Cal Hardage and each week we'll dive into the journeys, challenges, and successes of producers like you, learning from their experiences, and inspiring each other to grow, and graze better.

Whether you're a seasoned grazier or just getting started.

This is the place for you.

Calling our ranchers.

If you're looking to optimize your grazing operation and boost your bottom line, Noble Research Institute can help the noble approach to education pairs their own infield research with the expertise of ranch managers and advisors to find practical solutions to your unique challenges.

Now's the time to register for one other June in-person courses.

Noble will be in Jefferson City for Noble Grazing Essentials, June 4th through sixth in Kansas City for Noble Profitability Essentials, June 11th through 12th, and in Fredericksburg, Texas for Business of Grazing, June 24th through 26th.

Noble Research Institute ensures that every insight they share has been tested in real world conditions, giving you solutions that work, not just theories.

Visit noble.org today to learn more about these courses or to register.

Today we're talking with Alex about his journey from interning at Polyface to his own farm, Chucktown Acres and what they're doing there.

For the overgrazing section we drop into marketing.

With a rebrand and how he markets his his farm.

And then we talk about the different social media channels.

Finishing up with the famous four, and then he has a couple questions for me today.

For 10 seconds about the podcast.

Thank you to those who voted in the poll last week at Grazing Grass Community on Facebook.

If you're not there, I encourage you to go join.

Uh, I am working on the grass-based genetics website as well as the Grazing Grass Resources, and I hope.

I was hoping to announce one of 'em was available this week, but it's not quite ready.

So hopefully next week one of 'em be available and the following week, the other one will be available.

For 10 seconds about the farm.

I've talked on the, on the podcast before.

The I'd like to get some hogs, raise 'em up, finish 'em out, sell some pastured pork, and also use that pork for our family.

Well, I wanna say thank you to Jared.

I found some, went over and visited his farm and purchased a few pigs.

So we'll see how that journey goes.

I'm excited to try it, but also as I'm doing that, I'm thinking we have not had a pork producer on the podcast lately, so we need to change that.

So if you're a grass farmer and you're raising pork, let's talk about it.

Anyway, enough of all of that.

Let's talk to Alex.

cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: So you mentioned Polyface there and you didn't have experience.

How'd you end up at Polyface?

Did you grow up wanting to get into agriculture, or when did the regenerative bug hit you?

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: Yeah.

It's a long story, but I grew up a, a suburban knucklehead.

Basically cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: I.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: Homeschooled one of five.

my dad was a cop, mom homeschooled all of us.

And I played a lot of music.

I'm a, a drummer and then my my family's very athletic, so I was a played a lot of sports growing up too.

We actually had pretty good homeschooled sports, cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: Oh yes.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: up in Richmond.

It being in a big city helped that.

We cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: Oh yeah, it would.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: so we would play.

Private schools kick their butts and I mean, we play public schools and they'd kick our butts but I didn't know, I didn't growing up.

No, no, no experience of any kind of knowledge of food at all.

I mean, we were, we, my mom was a great cook, so we all loved, we were all like little mini foodies.

we would all try to compete cooking against each other.

cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: Oh yes.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: was, I mean, you gotta think a family of seven on a cop's salary.

We were just buying the cheapest food possible, you cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: Um, squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: and we were trying to make gourmet hot dogs, you know, so I didn't, I, I didn't have any.

Thought about farms at all growing up, except for when we would go strawberry picking in July at the cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: oh.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: patch.

So I, I carried that aura into college.

I, I, I went to Bible college to learn how to be a pastor and while I was at Bible college.

I made some hippie friends, some of like your like Christian hippies you know, back to the earth types.

cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: Oh yes.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: I actually had this one friend and he was way, he was way past crunchy.

I don't know what cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: Oh yes.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: You've got crunchy people and you've got granola people, and then you've got cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: Right.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: He was he was like toasted out.

He only ate raw meat, like his diet was cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: Oh, yes.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: He would do vegetables, fruit and meat, all raw.

he was the guy who introduced me to raw milk.

And so, cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: Oh.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: in a band with this guy, he's in my electric guitarist.

And we're whatever, some kinda like Christian, math rock band trying to be cool and tribal and stuff.

All my band mates are like into natural eating and like gardens and raw milk.

And I'm over here with ramen noodles and hot dogs.

So cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: Washing it down with a Mountain Dew.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: well on my way to putting on my freshman 15 that cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: Oh, yes.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: I'm like eating the cheapest stuff possible and all these guys are over here like walking me through their gardens and these are like 20-year-old dudes and I'm just like, cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: What?

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: is, this is weird guys.

You guys are really weird.

And so.

but I'm a very, I'm a naturally curious person, so I ask what the heck's going on?

Like, why are you guys just eating like whole papayas at a time?

Like, cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: what's happening?

And, and so they started educating me the, the, the whole food industry as a whole.

It's, it, it, it's darkness, it's it's corruption.

It's, it's all this greed mixed into it and how.

Basically, the food at the grocery store is basically just a low grade poison that doesn't kill us all right away as soon as we eat it.

But it kills us over years and years and years, and it's not good for us, and they've stripped the nutrients out of it, and they've adulterated it and they've made it shelf stable.

And all of cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: Yes.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: I'd never thought about before when I thought about groceries.

And so my mind started to alter.

In, when I thought about nutrition and food I started seeing food as a way to be healthy, I thought it was just basically like exercise.

You know, if you wanna be healthy.

And I cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: Oh right.

squadcaster-ac08_1_05-09-2025_134717: anyway, so I was like whatever I exercise all the time.

And so, I started connection, connecting nutrition with health.

I was kinda weird because when you're like 20.

Caring about nutrition is just like, unless you're like a bodybuilder or something, that's just not something you naturally think about.

cal_1_05-09-2025_124717: I was not thinking about that at that time.

cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: So your friends, they were into health food, they were talking to you about it made you more aware of it was your next step.

Did you get fully into health food at the time?

alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: Yeah, I started I started being the guy walking around campus with a a bundle of kale in my hand.

Because I just thought like, oh, kale's really healthy.

I'll just, I should just eat this stuff.

And so cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: Oh yeah.

alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: around eating raw kale everywhere I went like a weirdo.

cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: Oh, that, that is great.

You don't see too many people eating kale.

alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: like long hair, long beard, kale in hand, barefoot.

I, I just took this total 180 to be this like.

natural guy within like a year.

I just, I was like, I was so into it.

I just thought, this is crazy.

I, you know, when you discover something new, like, I think a lot of people go through this when they discover that the food in the grocery store is like terrible, then they like have this, revelations that happened to them and they're like, oh my cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: Oh yeah.

alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: I'm gonna change everything about what I eat.

It being the guy who, who now feeds people, I hear it a lot.

People are like, oh my God, you won't cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: Oh yeah.

alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: the bread, the meat, the cheese, the crackers, everything's poisonous, what is going on?

And then they come to me.

So I'm now getting to receive the people that I became in the beginning.

cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: Oh yes.

alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: so I'm like reliving my own transformation all the time when I meet my customers.

Anyway.

I still am not thinking about farming at this point.

I'm just thinking like I just want to be.

and natural and get all the crazy.

I started like trying to try, I still remember trying to do shampoo differently and that didn't work out.

Like vinegar is not a good, it's not a good shampoo.

It doesn't work.

But I went, I tried to go as hardcore to the crunchy side as I could.

cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: Oh yes.

alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: It was a trip, man.

People were, people there had seen me in freshman year, you know, the hotdog guy.

And then sophomore year I'm like walking around in sandals and cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: Eating Cal.

alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: drinking, drinking yorba mate and eating kale off the stick.

And cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: I.

alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: and so that was just, that was a crazy transition for me to go through as a person.

I'm also.

I moved halfway across the country to go to college.

I'm away from all of my friends and family, cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: Oh yes.

alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: time for me to come up with like a new identity basically.

And so cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: Right, alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: happened to run to the natural health thing as I'm kind of looking for a new identity for myself, and I'm really grateful for that.

It could have been a whole host of things that I would be regretting now.

cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: Right.

alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: But instead it put me on this path to really care about food.

And so I start talking about this and you meet all kinds of interesting people.

And I ended up coming I, I ended up getting a mentor and this guy I.

Really, really cared about the same stuff with nutrition and health and food.

But he wanted to start his own farm.

One day he had taken it to the next level, so he starts telling me about Alan Savory, Greg Judy, Joel Saladin the Rodale cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: Grass Podcast.

alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: Heifer, international Acres, USA Mother Earth News.

And I'm like.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

What is all this?

Because I am just, I'm cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: Oh yeah.

alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: over here.

What?

What's all this farming stuff?

And he cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: Right.

alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: think about it.

It's not just the, it's not just the food companies that are the evil people here that are trying to do terrible things to us.

We've actually got a whole agriculture system where the food starts that's destroying the planet.

and it's eroding all the soil and it's poisoning the water and it's ruining the air.

And then I had a whole nother like revelation that happened that I was like, oh my gosh, it starts with farming.

That's crazy.

So he said, as soon as I showed any interest in, like, so how does, how has food actually grown in the first place anyway?

Because I had never thought about how cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: Oh yeah.

alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: Especially.

On like a livestock side or with a protein side.

I never thought about feedlots and commercial factories and all this kind of stuff.

And so he says, you gotta read this book by Joel S called Folks, this Ain't Normal.

And it's gonna tell you, it's gonna answer all your questions.

so I remember on summer break, this is between sophomore and junior year, I read this book.

I'm a very slow reader, so it takes me all summer break to read this book and I come back and I'm, and, and I start my junior year of Bible college thinking, I don't want to be a pastor anymore.

I wanna be a farmer.

Like, cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: Oh yes.

alex_1_05-09-2025_140849: to me, but something is going crazy here.

And all of a sudden I want to be a farmer.

I want to be a part of this, of this group, this movement of people that's trying to fix the broken parts of our food system.

At the very base level, which is agriculture.

cal_2_05-09-2025_130849: So Alex, when you had that thought, when, when it dawned on you finally, you know, I think the path for me is farming.

How did you think I'm going to get there?

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Yes.

And we, so you had, you'd connected to, to raw food basically, and more of this health journey and you made that decision like, Hey, I want to farm now rather than be a preacher, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah.

So I'm a very stubborn person, so because.

I basically came into junior year of college thinking, I wanna be a former, not a pastor.

I was like, well, great.

I'm screwed because I have two more years of bible college left.

'Cause I'm not quitting now.

I've just gotta finish this thing.

And so I spent the next two years still getting my degree and, and finishing well and all that.

But I started working at a pumpkin patch while I was at school.

So after school I would go 20 minutes south of Kansas City and I would work at this pumpkin patch called Johnson Family Farms.

And in the spring we had massive greenhouses that we would sell flowers and stuff out.

So I was basically just like a flower boy, just like cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh yes.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: the fertilizer and the plugs and just working like.

Eight hours, just brutal hot heat in the greenhouse.

And then in the fall, things got really fun because I was a tractor driver for the hay rides that went out through the pumpkin patch.

And then I did little tours for the, the school kids that would come, you know, I would put on like the NSYNC microphone headset with the little, the little speaker you had to lock under your belt.

And I'd walk around with 48 year olds telling them about these little animals that we had at this like little petting oo that we had basically going on.

So that was my first like, experience with any livestock at all.

I mean, these are confinement animals that are just like, you know.

Three pigs and one Brahman cow.

And like, I think we had some goats and I can't remember what else we had there, but I would basically show them around and do a little tour.

And I love that, like any kind of public speaking thing that I could do.

I just love it.

Even if it's eight year olds listening, like, just gimme a microphone and a cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: and a alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, exactly.

Who cares what age they are.

So I, during this whole thing, I'm doing school.

I'm working at this pumpkin patch.

I'm still reading a lot about farming and I'm getting into Greg Judy I'm getting into reading a lot more.

Joel Ston.

Learning who Will Harris is and then Gabe Brown's book dirt to Soil Books like that really, really got to me and I was like, dude, I've really gotta do this.

And I remember reading one of Joel salad's books where he talks about interns and he describes his internship, I think this is in his book, called The Sheer Ecstasy of Being a Lunatic Farmer.

Which what, what a name for a book.

He, he talks about bringing interns in who know nothing about farming, who have no experience, but they have a passion, they want to do it, and they wanna have their own farm someday.

And how exciting that is for him to bring these people in.

And I was like, dude, I, I had this aha moment.

I was like, I think this is it.

I think this is what I'm, I think I'm supposed to be a Polyface Farms intern, and that's how I'm gonna get into this because I.

I don't know anyone who has a farm.

I don't know anyone who has land.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: right.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: negative money.

I have no way to start my own thing.

I gotta join someone who's already doing this thing, learn how they do it, and then they'll go replicate it somewhere else.

So, I, it, it takes me a little while.

I figure out when their applications are, and they actually only have a 10 day opening for their applications to go in.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh wow.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: you need to be at the right place at the right time.

Put your application in.

The year that I applied, there were 171 applicants and they only take 10 people.

So, and I saw, and I was like, there's no way I'm getting picked for this man.

This is crazy.

But I got an email back from them based off my application.

I was one of the 50 people that they were gonna have for their, their two day tryout period where they get to know you, they see your attitude, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh yes.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: see how you are socially how hard you work, and you work for them for two days basically.

And so I went there and they put you up and, and you worked for them for two days.

And I had a blast.

I was like, we, we, we built an egg mobile and took two days and we, we saw some lumber and I was like, this is so awesome man.

I would love to do this as a career.

And I was lucky and blessed enough to be one of the 10 that they picked out of that group of 50.

And so then it's May of 2016, i, I drive up there and they're only two, two hours away from where I grew up in Virginia.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: So, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Let's stop right there for alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Alex, I, I, I wanna, when you think about that process and going through the process, you're applying with no experience, which sounds like from his book, that's kind of what they alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yes.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: What.

What do you think?

Got you The internship.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I tried to keep a couple things in mind while I was there.

'cause I was, I was prepared for this.

I knew this was really competitive and and I've read, I had read enough of Joel's books to know things that would drive him crazy and then things that would impress him.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh yeah.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I went in with, I knew he really loves his family and I know he really loves positive attitudes and he loves passion and he loves curiosity.

So I tried to focus on this two days.

I tried to focus on getting to know his family and being really just kind to them and asking 'em questions.

I still have this memory of playing cards with his grandkids and because we were having dinner at his son Daniel's house, and the, they, they have three kids.

And I love, I love kids.

You know, I've done all the field trip tours and all this stuff at this point, and so I'm like, I know.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: It takes you straight back to alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

Yeah.

It takes me back to the home compassion.

I remember playing cards with them being like, I think they just need people who they feel safe around, who will work hard and have a really good attitude.

So that's what I focused on on those days.

I asked questions, but I didn't ask too many questions.

I didn't wanna be annoying.

And when it was time to work.

Now I've worked hard my whole life.

I built, I built fences for six years in like six summers, you know, through high school and then through my, when I was in college, I'd come home and I'd build fences all summer long, so like working hard's, no problem.

So I, when it was time to work and nail and screw and cut things, I was like, I'm on it.

I'm gonna work so hard and just put my head down.

And I don't know, there might have just been 49 other real knuckleheads in that group.

And I just saw it was one person wasn't gonna drive him crazy, you know?

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Right.

Well, I, I think in any of those cases it's just a matter of being authentic and true to alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: and to obviously having the work ethic and making the connections.

But yeah, I think, I think Afin alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Authenticity.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: AU authentic boy.

I think that authenticity a alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, you should put that on a poster so you can read it every day.

Practice cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: go.

Well, you know, I'm not sure I'm that great a reader, so that'd be a lot of alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: you put your rain glasses on.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: you there, put 'em on.

Thanks for outing me.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Oh, sorry about that.

I shouldn't have said that.

That was so rude.

Edit that part out.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Yeah.

Oh yeah.

You know, I told you, I think I told you I edit this to make it seem like I'm alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: That's really good.

I, it's really good idea.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: but you know, I work on that, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Oh, man.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: so.

So you get the internship and you show up at Polyface.

How's that go alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: it is hard.

I mean, it's, it's you go right into the very beginning of their broiler season, so we're talking about.

Thousands of chicks that show up when you show up.

They've already got thousands of birds on pasture.

And you know, the salads in the salads in shelters, there's only 75 birds in every shelter.

And you gotta drag every single one of those puppies every single day.

And you, you're probably responsible.

I think it the field we were responsible for had like 22 to 24 of these shelters and we had to drag every day.

And you know, you get, you wake up before sunrise and you work until sundown and you are getting a fire hydrant of experience and, and a reality check when you're there because this is how hard you're gonna have to work when you have your own farm someday.

And so this isn't working at Applebee's.

This isn't.

You know, I, I remember I, I worked at a frozen yogurt shop one time for like three months.

And most of the time I just sat around ' cause no one ever shopped there.

And and it was not frozen yogurt, it was like live action all day, every day.

There's always something to do.

There's always a job to complete.

Even if it's raining, you're either gonna go work in the rain or you're gonna organize a, a barn somewhere or something like that.

So it was, it was a great experience.

I've never worked that hard in my whole life and I've worked some pretty, I had done roofing before that.

Fences, decks, I'd worked pretty dang hard and that was the hardest I ever worked.

I still remember hay season coming around and we're talking June, July, August and we're bail.

We're out there bailing and stacking small square bales.

Hand stacking small square bales for hours and hours and hours.

And it, it was a real test for like, are you really sure you want to, this is basically a way to ask over the course of five months, are you really sure that you want to farm because this is what it's like.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: actually that, that makes me wonder, so you were there with 10 alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I would assume y'all built pretty good relationships during that time.

I don't know if you've kept in touch, are they all still in agriculture or did some of them say, Hey, this was enough of that?

I'm get, I'm going back to whatever I was alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah.

You know, we built we built some pretty good relationships there.

And that's been nine years from now, so I.

I, I'm really bad about talking to people who I'm not around.

You know, I'm like a outta sight, outta mind kind of guy.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I, I get alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: And so some of these people I haven't talked to since I left, and some of them I send funny Instagram reels to every day.

And so, I've got 1, 2, 3 of these guys that I'm still really close with, and two of them are in agriculture, and one of them is coming to visit my farm next week, the one that's not in agriculture.

And he's, he's got the itch again.

So he's, he's coming to my farm next week and we're gonna, we're gonna talk about it and he's gonna, he's gonna try to reevaluate to see if this is what he really wants to do.

He already had a kids and a family and stuff during that internship and and so he, he worked harder than all of us.

But he had a pretty successful IT company at the time, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: so, he decided to stick with it, but now he's got the itch again.

So I'm gonna try to convince him to get back into to some kind of regenerative ag somehow.

But yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: When you had finished that internship and down the road a few years now, from that, what was the biggest takeaway that has has affected you throughout the years?

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Oh man.

I think that the, the amount of hard work that we did there set a, set a standard for me where now, like, if I gotta get up at five to go catch broilers, it's fine.

Been there, done that.

Not a big deal.

It's a mental state for me now if I gotta stay up late moving, laying hands.

From one egg mobile to a hoop structure or moving pellets from one place to another.

No big deal.

Been there, done that.

So there, there was a, there was a work ethic thing that I now know my potential to be able to work at, at high levels for long hours, because I've already been there and done that.

So that's probably, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: probably number one.

Now number two is a little bit more broad because I, everything I do here is based off of what I learned there as far as the, the husbandry, the management side.

I mean, I got the same Gallagher reels for my polywire that I use there.

Like I still use those same kiwi tech posts that I was using there.

I use them here.

The, the poultry netting, I still use that stuff.

I still.

Move my egg mobile to fresh ground.

I still move the broilers to fresh ground every day.

I move my cows every single day.

I move my pigs once a week and it's just like everything I got so inundated with, with the benefits of how to run a regenerative farm.

I got inundated there and it's stuck with me nine years later now, and I'm still doing the same exact practices that I learned there.

So, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Yeah, so those, those practices have proved to be useful.

They work, so let's alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: absolutely, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I have one more question about Polyface, then I have one more question about your equipment.

You, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: there on Polyface and going through that journey, there's other farms out there to do internships.

There's Polyface and tons of others.

Would you recommend that for someone wanting to alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: 100%.

Absolutely no doubt.

The last thing I want someone to see, the last thing I want to see someone do is they read a book, they watch a documentary, and they think I'm gonna go do it.

And they go buy a farm and they go get into a hundred thousand dollars into debt to buy cattle.

And then stuff hits the fan and they don't know how to get your cows back from the neighbor's yard or, or they don't know how to work a head gate or they don't know how to work with cattle in a corral.

God forbid you get in a corral and you don't know how to work cows, you are screwed in there.

You know, if you don't know about flight ones, what are you doing?

Your, your pigs get away.

You know, your, your, your, your broilers are limping.

What do you do?

You don't know because you don't have experience.

And, and an internship is gonna be.

The cheapest education financially, but the most valuable education you can get for your experience that's out there.

You're, you're basically gonna go out there and learn from someone else.

You can ask them every question you can think of, come up with every scenario where things can go wrong and bounce it off of them.

And you've got an expert at your disposal.

And it's just, it's just, I would absolutely set, tell anyone if you're interested at all, go to an internship first.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Okay.

That brings me to my next question.

Do you offer internships at your alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: We do.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: plan to in the future?

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: We do.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

Yep.

Mine's a little different.

It's gauged more towards high school and college kids.

And it's just one day a week.

So I have them drive.

I don't have anywhere for them to live basically here, so I can't have this full immersion wolfing type of thing that you would see at some places.

But we're mostly reaching out to local people.

Either they have a teenager with too much energy and they need them to get out and, you know, cut grass for six hours.

Or someone who's probably in college who's very interested in sustainable ag and they want to know what it's like to work on a real a real farm, you know?

And so we offer that during the summer month.

So we actually just put out our newsletter about it last night.

It's funny you asked me that.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

So we offer that and we have, we have about five to six interns every summer.

And we hand select those as well.

I don't have 170 applicants a year, but cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Yeah.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I, I get about 11.

But it's great because there's so much going on on the farm during the summer where you got so much grass to cut.

You have so many broilers to process.

You've got so much, so many moving parts.

You've got, you know, we don't do our own hay yet, but like we plan on doing our own hay and there's so much stuff to do during the summer.

You need a lot of extra hands that you don't necessarily need in the wintertime, so it's nice to bring an influx of help get you through June, July, August, and then you can kind of cruise through the fall and get to the winter.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

Well, very good.

That's that's a wonderful opportunity for.

Teenagers in your area?

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: My, my second question pertaining to equipment.

You mentioned you use Kiwi alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I've never used them.

I use O'Brien alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: post.

like them.

They're by far superior to anything else alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: tried, but I haven't tried the alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Ooh.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: post.

So me why I alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

I've got O'Brien's as well.

And and I, if I have to choose between a stack of Kiwi tech posts and a stack of O'Brien's, I'm going with Kiwi Tech every single time.

These things are so awesome.

They're lightweight.

They don't get, they don't get like, bunched up and bundled up with each other.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Like the alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: the O'Brien scan, they don't, they have a a sliding insulator that adjusts up and down on a single skinny fiberglass post.

Has a really awesome double step in tread at the bottom.

And they, you could carry way more of them in one hand than you can.

The O'Brien post, the Brian posts are a little more bulky.

They've got all this options on there.

The, the, the thing about the O'Brien's is I like all the options that they have, but I don't like the whatever that one side is.

It's like the horse tape side.

'cause my polywire always gets stuck in there and you gotta yank it out.

But the, the Kiwi tech ones are amazing.

I get, I get, I order extra insulators so I can have two because I do run double strands sometimes.

And so, they're, they're super cheap.

To get those, to get the extra insulators, they last forever.

And the only way I've ever busted one is by running it over with a bush hog.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Well, you know, I, that's the reason I love the O'Brien's.

I tried some other brands before I tried them and they just alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: And now the O'Brien's have most of them The ones I don't have are because I alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

I lose them.

Yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: yeah, they, they're in great shape.

I've, I've only got a couple that I've ever broke part of a hook off of or that little connector off of alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: maybe you've convinced me.

I ordered a Kiwi tech reel, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Oh, cool.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: to try that, and I just had talked to Kin Cove about the carry pack because the carry pack will hold some those kiwi tech I.

Post in them, but I don't have Kiwi tech posts and I didn't think I wanted alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yes.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: But I may have to try 'em.

Based upon your alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I would say get 20 and try those out.

You're gonna fall in love with them.

They're so awesome, man.

It's just like, the same thing with like the, I mentioned the Gallagher reels.

I just, I've tried every other reel, the speed ride ones, the whatever the other red and white ones are interrogate.

I just, the Gallagher ones are so freaking awesome and they're, it's just almost impossible to break.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: see.

I don't like the alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Oh, come on.

Why not?

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: They, they got too much because there's alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Oh, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: on them.

I don't need it to protect my hand.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: the deal to, to I flip to hold it on the wire.

I just feel like they're, they're over-engineered alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I like my, I think the.

I think I like the O'Brien reels best.

The interrogate reels.

gonna have to look and see which reel it is.

I've had some reels alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: or mess up with the gears inside them.

And I do have a Gallagher reel and I've never had that problem.

And I think the O'Brien's, I've never had that problem.

The interrogates I've alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: problem with, they're probably the smoothest feeling one.

But those gears mess up.

And I know, I've talked to, I talked to Powerflex and I've talked to people and they're like, just fix it.

I don't I want it to work when I go alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I probably, I probably wasted about five hours trying to fix one, and I gave up and threw it in the trash.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Yeah.

I, when, when I'm out there working, I alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: If I wanted to be in the repair, the, the fence real business, I would be in the repairing fence, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I They do.

They're not designed to be taken apart and then put back together.

Goodness.

No they're not.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Yeah.

In fact, I've got the internal parts.

I got to fix one of them and it just rides around in alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: with me.

I'm waiting on that day.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Wait for a free ride.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: celebrate it's third birthday pretty soon.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Bake a cake for it.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: you are right.

Yeah.

But, but that's, that's good to know.

I, I may have to get me some kiwi tech posts and try those out just so alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: And I might have to get me an O'Brien reel and try that out.

'cause I've never tried one of those.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Yeah, I I will have to, to make sure, because I'm pretty sure I have that the right way.

I, I've got some reels with two hooks on the alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Oh.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Why would you need two?

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I, well, it's supposed to hang on a fence better, even.

But then it doesn't work with, I've got one of those power posts.

The alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: so I can't use it with that.

And in fact, when I got 'em, they said it was recommended you can buy this little dildo, go in there.

So I bought one waste of money because I planted it somewhere alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: at all.

And so I never have alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: hang right when I hang alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: to, to wrap my braid or my poly braid around it to alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Mm-hmm.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: it hot.

It doesn't wrap around the two pieces alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: No.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I just don't like them.

In fact, they spend all their time in the back of alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: except when I've got enough rules reels out alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: to use them.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I've got one reel that has lost the the guide, and that's the same thing.

I'm like, God, I hope I never have to use that thing.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: that I, I've got one without the guide and actually I think it's one of those double hook alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Ooh, double time, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: but man.

Not having the guide on there alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: dude.

It's so terrible.

God forbid you miss when you're reeling up and it misses a, a beat and slips over the, over the rail.

Oh.

And it wraps around the handle.

Forget about it, man.

Forget about it.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: right?

Yeah.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Oh, I like nerding out about gear every now and then.

I've done that in a while.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I, yeah, it, it's always an interesting subject.

I think that sometimes, you know, we need to dive alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I out what works because if you not mentioned those kiwi posts, and in fact, I just talked to kin Cove, I guess it's yesterday, about alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, cool.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: very timely alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I was really happy to see them pick them up because they didn't have them back when I bought 'em and I had to buy them from Mennonite guy in the mountains of Virginia who was literally shipping them from New Zealand directly to his store cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: yes.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: and he was the only guy I could get him from.

And so I was so happy to see Ken Cove pick him up because like, thank God if I just wanna order a couple more posts, I can just do that easily now.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: oh, yeah.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Big time.

Thanks Ken Cove.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: let's, yeah, I'm, I'm glad they have 'em.

I'm, I'm gonna alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: You get, you got that bug, and we're gonna skip over just a little bit because you did that internship in 2016 and I, and then obviously we're about nine years later.

What do you have alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

So now, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: And we, we did kind of cover that with all the livestock, but let's, let's dive in deeper alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah, so we launched this farm here in Charleston, South Carolina in June of 2020.

And so do you wanna know the, a little bit of the story behind that?

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I, I do, and I wanna know name alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Chuck Chucktown acres?

Yes.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: So where did that come from?

I, I have a guess, but go ahead.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

So the nickname for Charleston is Chucktown.

So when people are from here, that's kind of like a way to, because it's such a high tourist area, it's kind of like we have our own little secret language where we, we know different names for different.

Parts of Charleston.

And so you can kind of say, I'm a local, you know, I'm, I know Chucktown, so it's kind of a, you know, silly little fun thing.

And so I cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I guessed it was some way related to Charles, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yes, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: you know, St.

Charleston, so, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: exactly.

Because it used to be called Charles Town and then they just sh kind of shortened it, made it easier to say by Charles to, and cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Charleston.

Yeah, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: so yeah, I knew I wanted to do the Chucktown thing.

I like really loved, thought that was fun.

And then basically I wrote down the words that I could put after that.

Farm Farms, acres, pastures.

There's not a ton of options out there if you're gonna use like the farm thing in the name of your business.

So cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: right.

To use alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I just said all of them.

About a hundred times.

And I was just like, which one do I like?

The way it rolls off my tongue better and Chucktown Acres was just my favorite.

I liked it a lot.

And, and I'm kind of a non-conformist too, so I didn't see a ton of like something Acres farms out there.

So I was like, let's just, let's go with that and see how it goes.

It's, it's been five years and I still love it.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh, that's the important alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yes.

I, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: And I think it's unique enough too, for your customers that that it's gonna stick with them better than alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: another possible name alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: It's never gonna be perfect.

We still have plenty of people that go, oh, I went to Chucktown Farms the other day.

You over there at Chucktown Farms and I just let it, it's like, yep, sure.

I'll be Chucktown Farms if you want me to be Chucktown Farms.

That's totally fine, man.

I'm not too picky about it.

Yeah, I teach a, I teach a marketing class for farmers and one of my favorite things is when we talk about the need to rebrand, if you hate your farm name and so and so, I'm like, just think, just try to have some fun with it and think of a farm name that you could say a hundred times on the phone and not be tired of it.

That's my test.

Like, can you, can you say your farm name a hundred times in a day and not be sick of it?

And and so far it's been true for me with Chucktown.

So that's, that's been a little fun little thing about our business.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: So getting started there in Charleston.

How'd y'all get started?

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: It's a crazy story.

I was we actually moved to Charleston in 2019 and did not have anything lined up in the farming world.

I tried, I called a few guys that are operating farms here but they were all so small that they couldn't hire anybody.

And so I was like, well, I guess we're gonna have to start our own thing.

So we actually kind of just went out on faith and just said, we're just gonna go move there.

I had a buddy that owns a business here, like a landscaping design business.

So he, he said, you can have, you can just work for me until you figure out the farm thing.

And so I worked for him for six months and then one day at church.

I was talking to this guy, you remember I'm a drummer and this guy was a guest worship leader at the church that I was, I was drumming at.

And I was just asking him who he is, what is he doing?

And he said he's starting a farm.

He's starting a regenerative farm, 30 minutes north of where the church was.

And he actually told me that the, the next day Monday, he was going to put out a, a, a flyer for a livestock manager and he was looking for a livestock manager.

I was like, don't put it out.

I am here.

I am here.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: yes.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: And so I started working at that farm the next week and, and it was crazy.

It was owned by a third guy that wanted his own farm, wanted his own healthy food.

I.

But didn't necessarily want to do it himself.

He needed someone with some expertise.

So, so we were growing vegetables and livestock, and then within about six months that the owner said, Alex, I'm moving to Colorado.

I'm not gonna be here anymore.

I don't want to own this business anymore.

I'd rather you take this over and so can you just be the new, the new chief here?

And I was shocked.

I, I couldn't believe what was happening because I was just gonna, I was just working for somebody else and, and now I'm the sole proprietor of an LLC and everyone that I started with is gone.

And it's just me.

And so the land is still there.

He moves to Colorado, but he keeps the ownership of the property.

And he says, pay me a percentage of your profits, and we'll, you can, you can use this land and you know, the tractor and stuff.

I was like, wow, what a blessing.

What a, what a way to get into this because when people ask me like, how do I start my farm?

I don't have very good answers for them because I'm like, I got really blessed and lucky and all this all the same time and, and I was basically handed this business in its infancy stage, to be fair.

But I was still handed this and given a great lease on a property that had equipment ready to go and, and a couple of cows.

And so we, we launched with that in June of 2020.

I actually did a rebrand because I didn't like the name that they had going before.

So I rebranded when I became the new owner of the business.

And it's been five years now.

We actually don't even, we don't even work over at that property anymore.

It sold two years ago and we moved across the street to this one.

There's only two farms in our town and we just moved over to the other one.

We're not, I mean, we are in coastal South Carolina.

There's no farms out here like this is we, we bump up to a national forest that is hundreds of thousands of acres.

You know, I don't even know if it's, it might be half a million acres and there's no farmland for about 45 minutes to an hour from us.

So we are in this really unique little pocket.

We've got a little village here where all the shrimp come in for South Carolina shrimp and, and so like, it's, I'm the farmer in the town, and then everyone else is shrimpers and fishermen.

And so when we go to the bar, it's just all these shrimpers and me, and so I'm, I'm the farmer in town.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: great.

Yeah.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

So, like I said, we, we, we, we started with some cows and then we went laying hens.

We went broilers, we added Thanksgiving, turkeys, and then we added the pigs as well.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Those first two years were crazy, totally crazy because we, we were adding so many different enterprises.

To kind of match my dream of like, well, we don't have any pigs.

I want pigs.

Let's go get some, let's go get some feeder piglets.

And that's added on.

And then they would get out and run to the neighbors, and then the cows would get out.

And then the, the eagles would kill our chickens every day.

And the, and it was like, it was, I had done the polyface internship, so I had learned how to solve Virginia problems, but I hadn't figured out South Carolina problems yet.

The foxes, the coyotes, the hawk pressure out here is so crazy that I can't let my LHINs, they're in a egg mobile with poultry netting.

I can't let them go more than a hundred yards away from the house or else I will lose two, I will lose two chickens a day.

Guaranteed to the hawks.

Yeah.

It's, it's like a war one out here.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh yeah.

Do you still use the Polyface Chicken Tractor alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I don't, we we, you went with the mobile range coops that you can put like 600 broilers in.

They take like a week to build, but with like four guys, but they are so worth it, man, just going out there and I can move the whole thing.

Me and my 2-year-old with a tractor and we can move 600 birds in 30 seconds.

It's like, oh, this is a no brainer.

And our land is flat as a pancake, so there's no, I don't have to worry about hills and bumps and valleys and stuff.

It's just all, it's like a beach flat out here.

So we can, we can get away with something like that.

I know on some places you, their people's farms are on slanted ground and slopes and they can't do those big mobile range groups, but ours is 20 by 40 and we've got three of 'em and they are so sweet.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

And works out really alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I got burnout on the south and shelters.

I couldn't do it anymore.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I would think you could get burned out on those.

That's a, a lot of work that's efficiency comes into being an issue there with the number alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yes.

When you're doing it yourself every day, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Yeah.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: it's, oh, it wears you down, man.

For sure.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh yeah.

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com cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: and we wanna dive in more about marketing and sales.

And you mentioned something earlier just about a rebrand, which I thought was very alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Let's talk about your marketing efforts, how that's gone for you.

The first thing it sounded like you did when you were in charge, you said, Hey, we've gotta do a alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: How did that re did your customers have any problem with that rebrand?

I know the business or the farm was in its alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: so it wasn't like huge.

And you were trying to do a alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, thank God it was, it was still young.

When we did that, I think it was a little awkward for, it was awkward for a couple months because we had already been at a farmer's market with the old name.

We'd already set up our online sales platform with another name MailChimp with the other name.

So we had to get in there and like Dena everything, and people were getting invoices from the old name.

And so it was a, it was awkward, but it was, it was so worth it and I'm so glad we did it.

Now I try to encourage these young farmers that if they don't like their name, they can rebrand and it will be painful.

It's like cleaning your room.

It's so worth it, even though it kind of sucks for a little bit.

So, I, I, I, I to say, you, if you're gonna be an entrepreneur.

And you're gonna run your own company.

You've gotta love your name.

You just, you just have to love, you just have to love your business to be able to, when you have really bad days and really tough days, things, little things like that really help.

They help you get through tough days if you're like, I just still love this thing.

You know, even though this was a tough day or whatever ever.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: For marketing, what do you do for your farm?

And along that line, what do you recommend for alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: So I am, I'm blessed enough to be able to teach a marketing class.

We use barn to door for our sales platform, and they, they've got a lot of stuff that they do as far as like community oriented stuff.

And one of the things is these academy classes they've got a MailChimp one, a social media one, and I teach the marketing one.

And so I get a new group of farmers every month and I walk 'em through.

About three hours of content total over the course of three weeks.

Different ideas that we will run them through.

And the mo most of it is get as many email addresses as you can focus in on collecting emails and doing email marketing to these people.

Write them real emails.

They don't have to be elaborate, they don't have to be big, massive newsletters that you send out once a quarter.

I, I encourage farmers to send out a weekly email, just tell them a little bit about something that's going on on your farm.

But I try to match it up with the frequency of when people are shopping, because we have our, we do a home delivery system that we, people can order on our website and we, they just put in their address and their credit card.

We bring it to their door.

So I, I need to get in front of these customers at least once a week with a little message.

A, a sales promo, an encouraging thing about regenerative farming.

Anything that I could put in these newsletters.

I won't keep it long.

I'll keep it short.

People's attention spans are really short, but it needs to be on the same device that they're gonna be ordering from.

So it needs to be, you know, so it's not like I can, I can I do flyers and stuff like that too, but they're gonna be ordering from their phone or their laptop, most likely their phone.

So I need to get on their phone somehow once a week.

And we know, this whole social media algorithm thing drives me so crazy because there's, you can have, we've got 8,000 followers on Instagram.

That's not a lot.

It's not a little, but I know every time I post on there, it's not gonna go to 8,000 people, it's gonna go to 1% of them, like one to 5% most likely.

And so if I have a really important message to send to my customers, I can't rely on social media alone.

I, I still use it, I still put stuff on there every day, every other day.

Because it is a, it is a nifty tool, and it is, it is useful, but the email marketing is gonna be a private invitation directly to your customer with links that they can click on.

And you could, you can sell them ground beef in about two clicks and it takes about 20 seconds for them.

So it's about trying to make, trying to take the friction out of the relationship.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: So to, to get those email addresses.

you, you have barn to doors, so whenever you make a cell online, you're capturing alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yes, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: address.

How do you capture it outside of.

A alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: clipboard and a signup sheet.

Old school, I'm I, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: yes.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: at two farmer's markets and so when we're there, we prioritize the clipboard.

We worship the clipboard at the farmer's market, if nothing else, if we don't sell, we don't hit our numbers at this farmer's market, we better hit our email signup numbers because for me, those email addresses are the new currency.

If I can send these people an email a week, year round, and I can deliver this stuff to their house, who cares if it rains at the farmer's market that week?

Who cares if the farmer's market's closed?

Who cares if my wholesale.

Customers don't put an order in this week.

I'm going directly to this person's house and I'm sending them an invitation to buy my stuff as at the same frequency that they would be going to the grocery store to buy that stuff.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Okay, so I know when you're doing it for barn to door and doing this training, those people are already in the process of getting a website set up they're going to have products ready alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: What about for someone who's not quite there?

Should they already be starting and working on their email list and how would they go alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Ooh, that's great question.

I wanna put myself in that, in those shoes, you wanna be trying to build up as much hype as you can to get people excited about your, your launch.

And thankfully the excitement should.

Becoming naturally if you're gonna be launching something, you've got, you're excited about this already.

And you haven't experienced any of the downsides of farming yet.

So it's all, it's all sunshine daisies at this point.

So you could you could literally go set up at a farmer's market with nothing and try to collect emails that way for your future farm deal.

Obviously social media is gonna help, but if you don't even have a farm yet, or, or maybe you're not selling anything yet, it's a little bit trickier to try to get in front of people, but is this, the social media algorithms are gonna reward you for being consistent and on their daily.

So try to do that as best you can.

And then, gosh, I, I think another great way to do that would be to try to.

Partner with some local businesses that are privately owned, that that, that attract the right kind of buyers that are gonna be looking to source from a local farm.

So, I love using the CrossFit gym as my number one thing.

Go to a CrossFit gym, ask to speak to the owner, or you could send them a little like Instagram DM first to set up a meeting with them and just ask him, can I set up like a clipboard and a email signup form?

And maybe like, I talked to this one farmer who did a fishbowl idea for when he launched his farm.

He said, after the first steer that I process, I'm gonna give away $200 on that ground beef to one person in this fishbowl.

And the, and the guy got 150 email addresses from one fishbowl at a gym.

I was like, dude, that is such a crazy idea cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: it up.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: and it really worked.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I, I love that al the box thinking.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

There's also little independently owned grocery stores, like health food stores little baby Whole Foods, if you will, but they're all privately owned.

Those people love local farms and so if usually they're, they want clean meat, you might be able to even use them as like a pickup location someday.

But they would probably be willing to work with you in some form or fashion to try to either get email addresses or put out flyers or something just to help you get your farm started.

There's probably a hundred other little things you could do, but those are probably gonna be the three most efficient ways you can go out there and get it, get in front of people.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: yeah.

I, as I think, I think those are great ideas.

Social media.

Social media drives me crazy.

You know, I deal with social media with the podcast I've really been lax lately on it because.

It's something alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: and sometimes it just doesn't feel like it's doing what it, what you want it to do.

And like you said, you push, push out a post or something and you've got this X number of followers, but you're looking at a 1% alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah.

Yep.

And I think, I think they are making it more and more difficult for businesses on social media, on purpose.

I did just notice that I'm getting asked by Instagram to join the Blue Check Mark Club, but I have to pay $15 a month.

To get the stupid blue check, and I'm such a nonconformist.

I'm like, they're never getting that blue check mark.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Right.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I even turned down the blue check mark when it was free.

I just like, no way.

Probably shot myself in the foot with that one because now it's $15, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: There.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: To sign up for it.

But yeah, they, I think that they are realizing how much they have helped businesses in the past.

This is, you know, the meta world.

And they, I think they're looking for a little bit of payback now.

So, they're, if they haven't started charging businesses, they are going to because it's been a really effective way.

It's the number one thing you always hear.

How do you know when you ask someone, how can I get in front of other people?

They'll immediately tell you, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok that kind of stuff.

And I, and it's getting less and less effective as we go on.

So we're gonna have to get more creative with different ideas on how to get in front of people.

Though it seems like the only time I get a really popular Instagram post now is if I say something really controversial.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Well, and and alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: true.

You, if you can be a little controversial and cause people to.

To to argue alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: online, you can get a little bit more exposure.

That's not really my personality.

I don't wanna alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Mine neither.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Because yeah, so that doesn't work alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: But on the, on social media, are there, you know, there's a few new networks that have jumped up trying to be the new Twitter with issues.

Are you using Blue Sky or Threads, or, know I'm alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

No, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: you using any of alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: no.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Are you sticking to the, I hate to use the word alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: with social media, but the, the usual alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: That is such a great way to put it.

Yes.

These standards.

Yes, I know.

I, I am I describe myself as a caveman with a MacBook, so I am, I'm like, don't tell me about the new one, because I have a hard enough time keeping with the traditional ones, the classics, you know, I don't even have Tik, I don't have TikTok or Twitter.

I mean, I just Instagram and Facebook and I have LinkedIn together, so I only have to do one and I'm, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh yeah.

And it just gets alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I'm barely getting to the one.

Yeah.

I'm like, don't tell me no blue Sky stuff.

I, I don't have time for this.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Yeah.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I don't know how much good that stuff is for, for your business.

I, I, I don't know.

I feel like you could spend hours and hours on there.

I.

And I, I just think I spend way too much time plugging tires and, and setting up paddocks to be messing with all that kind of stuff, you know?

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Right.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Fixing fences is gonna be a little more important than your blue sky account, so, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Yeah.

I, I think I have blue sky.

I think I have threads, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, of course, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: for the alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: And the, the only ones I really post to is Instagram and Facebook, because that's a one deal.

I kind of do it and it alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: places.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: But I've not been real good about that lately.

as I look at downloads and measuring that, I do think there's been, I, been a decrease in downloads, not new downloads per alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Mm-hmm.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: There's been a decrease in overall alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Interesting.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: that tells me is I don't have as many new people finding alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: but I can't contribute that all to social media because I haven't been on any other podcasts lately and, and trying to get in front of some new people.

So that becomes the issue alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I need to get it out to alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yes.

Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Not if you're an old listener.

I love that you've alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

Thank you.

Old listeners.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: But yes, thank you.

But need some new alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

I, I bet you, I mean, do you record the video on theses cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I do.

And we alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: and so, okay.

YouTube can be, and you put little clips up there.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I have, I did.

I was putting shorts on YouTube and TikTok for a while, but it just felt like, and it was actually getting a little bit of attraction, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: a little bit of traction, not alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I'm alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Oh, well, you gotta be careful.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: but, you know.

Yeah.

But I just, it was just something more to do, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: off of it, and at times I think I should get back on that, but I, that part of it, I alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: So that's a little bit tougher for me to get out there, so maybe that's something we get back on, but right now I haven't.

Do you use shorts for or YouTube at alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Nothing, no.

I tried to put up a few YouTubes, but like I said, I, I haven't seen enough benefit from the social media as a direct farm business where all my customers are local.

Right.

If I had, if I was Primal pastures or five Mary's or white Oak, I understand you're shipping across the whole country.

You need to get in front of everyone and everyone's on the internet.

My focuses have been much more local.

And so, and so, I need to get in front of the people that are within an hour of me.

And so if I was trying to reach more nationwide audience, I would definitely do a lot more YouTube and more of the, the extras in the social media world, you know?

But I, I think there, it's, it's hard to say.

It's hard to dismiss it because, you know, there's a way that people are winning on social media for their businesses.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Right?

Yes.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: But also at the same time when, when you were talking about marketing and the fishbowl and stuff, the book that, that comes to mind is Get Different by Mike Ma.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Mitz.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: name's easy to say alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yes.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: As long as I've got his name in front of me, I alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

I'm reading the pumpkin plan right now.

Yep, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: oh yeah.

I love Profit First.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: me too.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: pumpkin Plan, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Napkin, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: get different.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: something cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: He's got all, he's got tons of books.

He's actually writing a personal finance book that I'm pretty excited.

That'll be coming out probably in 2026, I guess.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: He's awesome.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: think they have a long.

Yeah.

And he has a podcast with AJ Harper about writing a book about authorship, which I love.

In fact, I was listening to it earlier, but whenever you're talking about that, I'm thinking about get alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: And so actually, I was thinking earlier, I may need to read that more as it pertains to, to the Grazing Grass, because I see the podcast, not this podcast, but all the other podcasts doing kind of the same thing.

I need to do alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: But when you, you think about it your farm, can you get different and be different from everyone else?

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Right.

That's a, that's a, that's why we teach the class because you know, I've, I.

I've talked to so many farmers who are starting out and they think, I, I'm gonna grow pastured poultry, I'm gonna do some hogs, and I'm just gonna clean meat and as soon as it hits my freezer, everyone's gonna line up and they're all gonna wanna buy it from me if it's gonna be amazing and easy.

And then they get there and they get their hogs back from the processor, and then the pork sits there for three months.

And like, they just have a freak out because they're like, oh my gosh, they're not pouring in like I thought they were gonna be, and cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh yeah.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I need to go sign.

I need to figure out how to do this and how to get in front of people.

I think a lot of people on are trying to do this without farmer's markets.

You know.

There are a lot of bad farmer's markets out there that are not worth your time.

So I get it.

Like I've done a few where it was like we sold $200 of stuff and I'm like, this isn't, this is terrible.

This isn't worth it.

But believe me when I say this, there are farmer's markets out there where you will go there and you'll spend four hours there and you'll do $5,000 in revenue at this one farmer's market, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: worth it.

It's, I say that being in year five of being at that farmer's market, right?

It wasn't that, it wasn't that great right away, but when you can do that, you get in front of real people in real time that actually want to buy some groceries and, you know, and so they, and they're in farmer's markets, they, they concentrate a, a specific type of person that is looking for local food.

So they're, they're kind of.

Getting out all the Walmart shoppers and the Publix people, and the Wegmans people getting them out of the way.

And they're just concentrating on people who love local food.

And then you want to establish yourself at that farmer's markets and be a constant presence in that person's life.

That person's only gonna come to that market once a month, most likely.

But you wanna be there when they see, when, when they're there.

You wanna make sure you're there.

And as the years progress, they will trust you more.

They'll get to try all your products a little bit here and a little bit there.

And then by year four or five, you're, you're gonna be so, so glad that you put in the hard work on the early days when no one knew who you were and you were the new guy and now you are the source for everybody's protein needs in this, in the four neighborhoods that surround that farmer's market.

Yeah, but it's gotta be a good one.

It can't be, it can't be a podunk one, it can't be a rural one.

It's gotta be in the, in the metropolitan area that's focused on real food that's grown by real people.

So, yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: yeah.

Excellent advice there.

Alex.

It's time for us to move to the famous four questions.

Same four questions we ask of all of our alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Cool.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Our, our first question, what is your favorite grazing Grass related book or resource?

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I am blanking on the Greg Judy one, the name of the Greg Judy one that I love.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: No risk ranching or comeback alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: No Risk Ranching was a great one.

I think probably Salad Bar Beef.

Joel Saladin.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh yeah.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I, I love that book, man.

I'm, I'm a, I'm a fan boy of Joel's saw and salad bar beef was so great.

You gotta read it if you're a grazer man.

Just learning about when his dad was setting up paddocks, but their ground was so hard that he had, he couldn't put a piece of rebar in the ground cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: and so his dad had to create tires with concrete in it, with a rebar post in the middle and the.

That was their post.

And here I am walking around with 30 kiwi posts in one hand.

Do, do, do.

Yeah, it is very inspiring, man.

The things that those guys were willing to do to do regenerative rotational grazing.

Oh my gosh.

Totally crazy.

So yeah, go eat salad bar beef.

If you have haven't.

It's great.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Very good.

Our second question, what's your favorite tool for the farm?

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Oh, you're gonna make me pick between my tractor, my four wheeler, my truck, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: IR Right, and, and all of those you can't live without, but which one alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I, it's gotta be my tractor.

Because we, we went ahead, we had an old, we still have this old Ford 2000 tractor.

And she's a little rough, you know, she's been around for probably 30 years and so in the mosquitoes here on the coast of South Carolina are so vicious that you would have to go, if you're gonna go bush hog, you gotta put on a whole bug set a, a bug suit to, to go bush hog without getting eaten alive.

So last year my buddy let me borrow his Kubota for a week I had to move around some really heavy stuff.

And so he left me the forks in a bucket with his Kubota and a closed cab.

And the air conditioning was ice cold and the radio was really nice.

And I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna.

Live without one of these.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: So my wife said when I got off that tractor for the first time and I was so happy, she's like, we gotta get you one of those baby.

And so I was down at the Kubota dealership the next week looking at closed cab tractors.

And I got an mx 5,400 and it's great.

It's a closed cab so I can go bush hog and mosquitoes are all in the glass on the outside trying to eat me.

I've taken videos and put 'em on Instagram and I, it would take videos of the mosquitoes trying to get to me.

I'm just laughing at 'em.

Yeah.

So I think, I think that's the one.

That's the one I can't live without.

Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Oh yeah.

Excellent resource.

And I keep thinking Kubota will reach out wanting to, to sponsor something alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Come on guys, get out there and sponsor this podcast.

Dang it.

We'll, we'll tell everyone to go buy one if you do.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: there we go.

Yeah, exactly.

They come in.

My favorite color.

It's, it's just alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I pretty much just did a commercial for them anyway, so I hope I get a kick bag too.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Have to reach alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: you all, have you listened to this episode?

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: right.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Our third question.

What would you tell someone?

Just getting started.

I.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Buckle your seatbelt.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Rough alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: ahead.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I hope you really want to farm because it, this, the work is so hard, but you, you have to be connected to the greater mission at hand, especially in the regenerative, sustainable world.

It's not just you and your little farm.

You're a part of a whole movement of thousands of farms across the country of people who are sticking it to the man and saying, screw you.

I'm gonna grow my own food.

And then when I have enough for me, I'm gonna grow food for my neighbors.

And then when I have enough for my neighbors, I'm gonna go to the suburbs and I'm gonna get all your people that are shopping at Whole Foods and they're gonna shop with me now.

And, and you need an attitude of, I can do this, it's gonna be hard, but this is totally worth it.

And so I can give you all the, the practical advice on how, what not to do with your pigs.

But if you don't have the right attitude going in and if you don't have a stick to neighbor attitude and mindset, then you're not gonna make it through the first couple years.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Yeah, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Excellent advice.

And Alex, where can others find out more about alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Oh.

They could join my email list cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Exactly, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: if they want to.

Go to chucktown acres.com, scroll to the bottom, put your name and email in there, and I'll send you an email every week about what's going on with the farm.

And I do the social medias, just Instagram and Facebook at Check Town Acres.

We're the only one on there.

So pretty easy to find.

So that's where they can find out more about us.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Well, I, I'm gonna go join your email list so I can see how an expert alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Ooh, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: I can figure out how to do it alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: pressure's on.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: So yeah.

And lastly, one last question, but it's where we turn the tables.

Do you have a question for alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yes, I do.

But I have two questions for you.

So I'm gonna make 'em.

I'm gonna make 'em really short.

Is that allowed?

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Sure.

Yes.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Alright, question one is, what's your favorite book on that shelf behind you?

Because I see a lot of amazing books that I've read, but I want to know which one out there is your favorite.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: favorite, if I can see it, is right here.

The Lasater philosophy to raising.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Wow.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: this book, I was introduced to it at a young age.

It was um, my dad had it on his In fact, I bought my own copy just to have it on my shelf, then I, I alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: occasionally.

It's a really short read.

It's just about his breeding philosophy, and I really think with livestock, if we would just follow h.

His ideas with that, which they, they correlate really good with uh, Johan Zeeman's as well.

Uh, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: would just follow them, livestock would be in much better shape than they are.

I am very much, as a Razer, I'm a livestock first person, and I really alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: so for me, I have to work to be grass first and manage my soil because I'm all about the, the livestock.

And that's, that's alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: love on the farm.

Um, that's definitely I, I enjoy just reading.

So every once in a while I just read it to get, just to enjoy it.

So it has to alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: philosophy of raising cattle and I, and it doesn't apply to just cattle, it applies to all livestock, so, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Okay, cool.

Cool.

And it's about breeding cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Yes.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: breeding for different genetics.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: In fact, while he talks about the six principles of breeding uh, and I should be better and rattle them off my head, right off.

But, you know, a maternal animal should raise a offspring every year.

she alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: goes to town.

Uh, they should thrive the environment they're raised in.

You should not have to bring in inputs to get 'em to where you want 'em to be.

Um, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: you should select for traits are important.

If you're selling pounds of meat, pounds of meat is the important trait alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: all the others.

And sometimes we wanna get wrapped up.

Oh, feet and legs on that.

Animal's not quite right.

Oh, I don't like that top line, that rump slope I don't like.

agree.

I get there too.

But if she produces uh, offspring every year.

And I'm able to produce pounds of meat.

If that's my market, whatever my market alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: then she's alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: what I want.

And rather than trying to second guess, guess nature, let's get out of the way of nature and just focus on those animals that do what we want 'em to do, and breed from alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: props.

know, she's out there doing the work.

That's the gist of it.

He'd, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, I love that.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: puts it more elegantly and, and breaks it down to the six pillars of it.

But that's alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, Yeah, that's great.

Okay, second question is.

Who's your dream guest on the podcast?

Who's the one you really, really want?

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: easy.

Obviously it's you, Alex, but alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Oh, yes.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: else.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

Finally, you got to this day.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Right, exactly.

Uh, Pete from just a few acres, that is my dream guest to have on here, and he is probably a unconventional guest for a grazing deal because you immediately think Greg, Judy, will Harris uh, Jim Garish, Gabe Brown.

Some of those we've had on the podcast.

The ones we haven't, we hope to get on the podcast.

But to me, Pete um, I wanna say his last name's Larson, but he has just a few acres.

I watch his channel every week.

I catch the and he does stuff.

He manages his grass.

But out here we're all like, if you can move him.

Once a month, move them once a month.

If you can move them a week every week, move them every week if you can, move them a day, move them every day.

And sometimes we get to a point and we say, well, if you can move them every hour, get out there and move them every hour.

You know.

we we alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: what's that alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I know.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: like juggling, you know, you get three balls and you're juggling for kids and they're enjoying it.

What's their question?

They don't, they don't come to you and say, oh, that's great.

I loved that you did that.

They say, can you do four balls?

And I alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

Right.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: we are kind of the same way.

moving alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: how often?

Well, how about alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: them twice as often?

You know, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: and Pete's kind of pushed back on that.

And he does not do, he's more about uh, weekly rotations.

And he talks about he was doing daily rotations, but it hurt his performance too much.

Hi.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Hmm.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: were finishing at a smaller weight, so he's backed up to um, weekly rotations, I think.

Probably, in my opinion, I do daily rotations.

Week is a little bit long there, but that's alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: for him.

And the other thing I think he does so good besides just being authentic and sharing what's going on.

When he is outta grass, he pulls cows up and puts 'em in a lot.

Now I think it would be better if they stayed out on grass if you're able to do that.

But if you don't have grass out there, you've got to give them some hay.

And a lot of alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: get in a drought and we try and force it through, we'll make it, we'll just move 'em a little bit slower.

Uh, grass will start growing.

will put 'em up and he will alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, just get 'em off.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: And I think there's a lot of value to that instead of grazing your grass too short and hurting it, he just alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: and that's not a popular thing to do.

So.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: no.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: One is his rotation and just being aware of what that does for his animal performance in his market and what he's doing.

And the second thing is when, when you're short on grass, rather than harming the grass, pull your cows off, feed some hay, let your grass recover.

If you need to depopulate or destock, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: you need a destock.

Now he's not one to destock so much, he's gonna pull 'em up and feed him hay.

But alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: an option there and I, I really alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: that he's willing to do that because a lot of people aren't.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: yeah, yeah.

It is tough with the way grass grows.

I mean, you've got four months out of the year where this stuff is just rocking and rolling and it's like, man, I wish I had a hundred head in the summer cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: yeah, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: I wish I had 12 head in the winter.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: yeah.

Everyone's a great grass manager in May.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

Oh yeah.

You're killing cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Yeah.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: it in.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Yeah.

I've been patting myself on, myself on my back the whole month of May, and I'll probably continue all the way through May, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: feel about it in July and August alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yeah.

Right.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: September and October alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: test.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: a dry fall, you know?

And that's always a worry.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

Yep.

Absolutely.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Alex really enjoyed you coming back on the podcast and I say coming back because we tried to do this last week and had all kinds of issues.

Um, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Yep.

cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: Allie 'cause we won't blame Cal.

we just had issues, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Oh, it was the caveman here with the MacBook.

It was me.

It was my equipment cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: we're, alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: was messing us all up.

I, cal_3_05-09-2025_131934: and really appreciate you coming on and sharing with us today.

I.

alex_2_05-09-2025_141934: Thanks, Cal.

Pleasure to be here, man.

Cal: Thank you for listening to this episode of the grazing grass podcast, where we bring you stories and insights into grass-based livestock production.

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