cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Well, Todd, we will get started with the fast five.

So to get started, what is your name todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

So, Todd Barkley, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: and, and Todd, what's your farm's name?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: You know, we just go by Barkley Ranch.

And then we have A-A-L-L-C that's Barkley's Homegrown, LLC.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, very good.

And where are you located?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Southeast Montana Baker, about 15 miles southwest of Baker.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, okay.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: And what livestock species do you graze?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

So we sort of a diverse mix of cow calf pear.

We have a spring and a fall herd.

our small herd or our fall herds a little bit smaller.

It's, it's, it's growing in scope.

Angus predominantly, we threw some galloway in on our fall herd just to have some hair growing through the winter.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah, we run stocker cattle too.

So we'll keep all of our heifers breed most all of them.

And then the light into the steers.

But going with this fall program, we're retaining all them as stockers and trying to shorten up our spring calving season.

So we're not running many of those calves over as stockers, so, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Or any of the steers.

Yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: And what year did you start grazing animals?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

So I'm I'm actually the fourth generation on the ranch.

So I went to college, have an elementary education degree, came home in 95, 19 95, and worked off the farm a little bit, but, and worked with my neighbor.

And so started leasing the neighbor's place in 97.

So I would say then, you know, in earnest on our own.

And then we leased, we leased the home place too.

And then in 2007 we bought neighbor's place.

My wife and I did.

So, yeah.

So it's been a journey for sure.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

Cal: Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.

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For 10 seconds about the farm.

Wait before I go further, let me warn you, it will be longer than 10 seconds today for the farm and for the podcast, but it's great stuff if you don't wanna hear it.

Just fast forward 10 seconds about the farm.

I started the year.

Wanting to do some ultra high density grazing, and I can't get to ultra high density with my forage and the livestock I have.

So I'm just pushing that weight limit to get up there.

So I did that for a little while till I ran into some electric fence woes I've talked about in the in the past.

Then at that point, I went to some slower rotations with one herd and the other herd.

Actually same thing, slower rotations, but more like grazing in the sweet spot like Tom Kravis, um, suggest and wrenching like a 12-year-old.

So I've been doing that.

Then we belted hay and as we've talked about, we builded a little bit more hay than I planned.

And since we belted hay, I've been doing rotational over grazing.

I'd like to say I'm always doing the right thing.

I'm not, you know, you have to look at your context, what's going on in your world, and decide what's best for that time.

And I've been doing rotational over grazing.

I'm moving back into that grazing in the sweet spot.

When I say rotational overgrazing, what do I mean by that?

I'm still moving my cows by moving them much slower a week, 10 days, even two weeks into a pasture before I'm moving them on.

And when I think about moving them, I wanna move them before that regrowth starts, which is gonna be 2, 3, 4 days, depending on your weather.

Uh, in our area, about three days.

It's been nice and wet except it's been, it's gotten drier, so I can push that out a little bit longer.

But I've gone further than that.

So they are overgrazing some.

That's just the nature of the beast.

But that's okay.

Whenever you're managing your pastor for, you want to do as much moving as you can, but sometimes you have to slow down for whatever reasons, because moving your animals is not the only thing you're doing.

So think about your context, what's going on.

And I know I'm doing some overgrazing.

I know it's happening, I'm still moving my cows a little bit slower, but that's what I needed to do at the time.

So the big takeaway is you should be moving your cows.

Move them as often as you can, and if you, if you have to go longer than you, like for a little while it happens, but just move them at some point.

So that was longer than 10 seconds.

Karson.

For 10 seconds about the podcast.

Speaking of Karson, I had the opportunity to go to Utah.

And visit Redmond Agriculture, see their operation go down into their salt Mine that a few other people there as well.

A couple of note that you may know.

TDF Honest Farmer on Facebook.

He runs a conventional dairy.

If you're not following him, you should follow him.

And then Jared Luhmen from Ranching Returns, he was out there, really got, enjoyed the time out there.

I wanna thank Redmond for that opportunity, just getting to see what they're doing.

Getting to Jared and I talked a lot about podcasting among other things.

So it was a really good time.

I really enjoyed it.

And I wanna thank Redmond for giving me that opportunity.

If you're in Utah, they do mine tours, but it's not very often.

You wanna get on their website and check it out because it was really cool.

We went down 600 feet and in my experience, going in a mine, I'm a little big, but they have excavated.

I don't know if that ceiling is 50 feet, 60 feet high.

It's crazy amount of room, but I do have some photos that I'll be pushing out on social media as well.

So you want to catch those and again, over 10 seconds, but That's okay.

We're gonna go back and talk to Todd.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Now it sounds like growing up you did not necessarily think you were coming back to the ranch, or did you think I need to get a off the farm job so I can ranch?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

You know, no, actually through high school, 'cause our place was at that time, average size, but we farmed and ranched and my grandpa went into CRP.

So you know how that sort of dislocated a generation, right?

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: that's a conversation all itself.

But I worked for a neighbor and he was also a school teacher, and I always wanted to be in production, agriculture not necessarily the other aspects of agriculture.

And so I thought, well, wow.

He could teach and be in production agriculture.

So, I don't know.

You remember the, the eighties and nineties in agriculture was pretty tough, right?

And so, you know, we went to college and I, I did get an elementary ed teaching degree, came home and, that's a funny story too.

Got one job, little local community.

They had kindergarten, roundup, no, kindergarten showed up.

So my sixth grade position got bumped 'cause the kindergarten teacher went all the way up, you know, they just bumped 'em up cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah.

So I was hired and fired all at the same time, you know.

So, then, but the ironic thing was, is we had a terrible blizzard in 96 a spring blizzard and my neighbor was getting old, he lost a pile of cattle.

He came to me that spring and said, Hey Todd, do you wanna lease my place?

I didn't have the heart to tell him that I'd already taken a teaching job.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: but I'll lease it.

'cause I thought I'm gonna do both, you know, 'cause it's a neighboring place.

I mean it cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: all on the west side.

And so I said, yes, they had the kindergarten roundup.

Everything just worked out as planned.

And and then in 2007, we bought.

Bought the farm, this ranch.

So, yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Did you end up teaching eni?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: You know, so a lot of pre-service, or not pre-service, but substitute teaching.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And then a couple, the teachers chil or their kids babies, and so I'd take their class for six weeks, eight cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

Yeah.

Doing the maternity leave.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: But I really, I really enjoyed it.

And so on with what we do on the ranch, you know, a lot of what we do, we, we try to tie it back into education.

'cause they are both of my, you know, both of my passions, education and agriculture.

And so, try to, we try to open our ranch up as a, as a learning opportunity for the younger generation.

And some of what we do are enterprise units trying to bring the younger generation back.

I think Eco or, or e Shepherd is, is one of those enterprise units to try and cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you know, maximize.

So, yeah.

And with the greenhouse, you know, we have a, a geothermal greenhouse with Barclay's, homegrown, just all those little things we do.

even in our process through our grazing all enterprise units.

'cause it was a way to get me to fit back our ranch because it was smaller and I was trying cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: trying to make ways of, of increasing our numbers while still keeping, still keeping our, our, our grass healthy and increasing, right.

Regenerative, making something poorer better.

And so through that journey, you know, it's, it's been a journey, let's put it that way, so, yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: O One thing about that, Todd, that jumps out, it doesn't mirror my journey, but there's a lot of commonalities with my journey.

I went, I left the farm.

To get a animal science degree because I wanted to dairy, but I actually thought I needed to get a job off the farm so I could do it.

But because of life circumstances, I came home and dared with my folks and then we sold out in 99 and then I'm looking around thinking, what am I going to do?

I have this passion for agriculture, but I was also in love with education.

So I went back to school and got my early childhood degree and, and I taught, I was in schools for a little over two decades, but todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Okay.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: all the time trying to figure out how I can do the farm and do it and, you know, it makes for long days.

But, you know, education does have some of those advantages that you mentioned.

Some of the hours, I hate to say they're shorter, but it is eight to three physically there, but there's still lots of after hour stuff.

It's not a, it looks better on paper than it is in practice.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Well, yeah.

And, and, and similar to the ranch, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: is always on the kiddos cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: It's, it's funny because when I pre-service taught so many years ago, I actually have a custom combiner right now, and he was in my fourth grade pre-service.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: So when I student taught, he was a fourth grader, him and his twin brother.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, cool.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you know, life does a full circle.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: it does?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and when I talk, you know, like at, at a, if I'm a keynote speaker at an FFA chapter or something, I just tell 'em, I says, you know, there's only 2%, or maybe less than 2% of us that are lucky enough to be in production agriculture as cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and operators.

But man, we rely on so many people that are involved in the agricultural side that, that have to have a knowledge of agriculture.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: important that, that, that, you know, when people think of, of, of agriculture, they just think a lot of times of us, but man, we're only 2% of it.

There's 98% of the other population that we rely on.

And, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah, sales auctioneer, I mean, it just, the list goes on.

So I really encourage for FFA and four H to just get involved in sales and service.

There's just so many aspects of agriculture and, and, and for me, I was not interested in that so much.

I, I did want to be in production agriculture.

I knew that.

And, and so, and it worked out, and I was sort of aggressive when I came back from college because.

the, when the place went back into CRP and we'd cut our cow numbers back and my dad become sheriff and my grandpa was working off, you know, it could have been so easy for them to just sell it, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and I, I just started, I started doing some electric fencing to, you know, water pipelines and just, you know, trying to utilize stuff that wasn't utilized before just so I could just, and they let me, I mean, that's another huge part too.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh it is.

Yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And, and yeah.

So that's, that's sort of how our journey began.

And then by doing some of that and, and realizing that to get maximum or potential outta some of this, you gotta start figuring out how to conserve water and this, that, and the other thing.

So, yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: You, you mentioned electric fence and moving animals.

What brought that idea to you?

Where, where'd you get exposed to that?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah, so when I came home from college in 95 or 96, we had a, Ann Fisher NRCS had just come to Baker as the DC and at the conservation district, or na, natural resource and conservation.

And was really a soil health cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Hmm.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: know, that that's where her passion was, right?

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: so, so it just, it just worked out that we sort of, you know, she had worked in North Dakota for four or five years before she came to Montana, and she's from Dickinson originally.

So she was pals with Gabe Brown.

Jerry do, I mean the who's who in regenerative cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Neil Dennis from Canada.

I mean, so, so she introduced us to them, clear back in like 98, 99, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: 20, 25, 26 years ago.

And, and then we have some pretty neat people around Baker too.

Like, Banister from Webo the boom and bus system and, and and twice over gravy grazing with Lee Mansky outta North Dakota State.

And so in order to do a lot of that stuff, you have to, you have to make pasture sizes down and our place is sort of unique.

We're in the northern Great Plains, right?

And so a pretty intact native system.

But we're also, and when I talk about our grazing systems, every ranch is unique, but cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Mm-hmm.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: we're still within the 60 mile buffer of the railroad.

When they, when they gave out land, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: so a lot of this country was farmed because the homesteaders tried to prove it up cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and it cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: poor farm ground because they could only use horses to pull through sand, not gumbo, right?

So, so.

You know, a lot of stuff going on, A lot of opportunity to fence, but, but no water either.

That's another cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Mm-hmm.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: is a lot of times our water's a thousand foot deep, didn't cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: back in the day.

So, you know, learning the importance of water spread, you know, getting the water spread out throughout your ranch and then be able to go in with electric fence and, and just make smaller pastures and increase your cow numbers by that.

Yeah.

So, back in the, the late nineties, early two thousands, went in, you know, introduced me to some of that.

I just thought going, wow, okay, you know, I can cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

In talking about water, just let's talk just a little bit about your environment you're working in.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: right.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: What kind, how much your precipitation, what kind of growing season do you have?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah, so you know, we're nine to 10, 12 inch rainfall, and when I say that I have a friend in Iowa that.

In 45 years of his farm and he's only had two failures.

Well, in my 30 years we probably had 15.

Right?

So cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: a, it's a boomer bust.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Mm-hmm.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: mean precipitation is just crazy.

growing season, basically from the 15th of May the 15th of July.

But we're in a pretty unique spot where we have about 50%, warm season grass and 50% cool season grass.

I mean, there's a nice mix here.

It's not, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: a short, we're a short grass prairie, but but we do have a nice mix of, of, of warm and cool season grasses in Forbes, in our native, in our native population.

So, I'd say if, if we're putting cover crops and stuff in, we want to be, we want to have that stuff seeded by Father's Day, you know, the 20th cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Not much later.

'cause, 'cause that's.

the end of our, what I'm gonna call our monsoonal season, which is two or three inches of moisture in the spring.

Then usually July, August is pretty dry.

In cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: a little bit more moisture.

But yeah, so, so we when they say take half, leave half, a lot of times, you know, that's our, one of our drought buffers, like we'll leave half 'cause maybe the next year we won't get any rain.

You cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: lot of stuff with six inches of moisture, but it's gotta come at the right amount of time.

Right.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yeah.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And if we don't catch something in March and April, as in a snow February, March, April, or even November, October, November, the year before, our drought triggers are already starting to, to kick in a little bit.

So yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: when you talk about forages, you're, you've got some warm season natives, some cool season natives.

What?

What do you predominantly have?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: You know, so our western wheat grass, green needle some of the, grandma grasses oh, we have some pretty sand reads.

We, we have some of the, blue stems, but not so much the big blue stem.

We cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yeah, you're too far north for that.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: a little bit too far cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Now we're, we're starting to, in some of our pasture seedings, we are, we are trying to get blue, big blue stem in, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yep.

But we'll have, we'll have sand blue stim and yeah.

And then some grandma, like side oaks, grandma.

But yeah, so that's, and then a bunch of Forbes.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: dau, my daughter is actually a range scientist, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: she is much more in tune with the names of all of them.

But yeah.

But cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Uh todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: but, but really a short, really short grass.

I mean, it's, it's three acres a cow a month on a traditional, on a traditional grazing, right?

So a nine month grazing season, you want 27 acres just to run a cow calf pair.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: oh.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Now that's, that's traditional.

So if you get into non-traditional like we're doing, then, you know, of course that's how a person can increase their numbers and, and still do good by the grass, so, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: right.

That gives you, that, that increases your productivity, gives you a little bit more wiggle room, but you're, you're in there about that.

27 acres per cow, which is just, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yep.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: it's hard for me to fathom, to be honest.

I'm in northeast Oklahoma.

However we do have family from Amarillo, Texas.

We go out there for family reunions and I go out there and I'm like, I'm not sure how you all feed a cow at all.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Right, Yeah.

Or look at these a hundred, 800,000 acre ranches in Nevada or, and it's like they're running a hundred cows, you know?

So, and you know, and saying that where we are, it's our topography, or our is like a Ridge Valley, Ridge Valley.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And these, these storm systems follow, you know, that and we lease from some people from Georgia, they're awesome.

But they, they have a hard time fathoming just within the county, how different like production can be on cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and stuff, you know?

And land is not land, you know, equal acre for acre, dollar for dollar.

Rent for rent.

And that's been an interesting journey too, explaining that, I guess it polishes me up on why we do what we do cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you know, how we could do what we do.

So, yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: You, you mentioned there earlier, you mentioned cover crops and seeding of some species in there.

For instance, the blue stem, are you doing a lot of cover crops?

Are you doing a lot of over seeding or anything?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you know, so when we do a cover crop, it'll be a full season cover crop.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, okay.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah, we, because like I said, a lot of times through our growing season, we're limited to about five inches of rain.

So it's really hard to do it as a second crop, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right.

' todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: cause we're not, know, if we take like a, especially.

Well, the warm season grass is, if we get lucky like this year and catch some August, July, August rains, they can really do wonders.

It's just that like 30% of the time we'll catch a July, August rain, the other cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And you know, it costs just as much to acre to put them in as you know.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: But yeah, so like we farm a couple thousand acres and so I'll put 200 acres of cover crop in there.

And I think that's really this journey through regenerative agriculture when we started, and I, you know, it's a grazing podcast, but you can make quite a correlation between the farming and the grazing.

'Cause we've always measured organic matter and stuff in our crop ground, just so we knew what the fertilizer was, right cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

Right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: So we have a pretty good baseline on how that works and when we start looking at.

Organic matter out in our native range in, in some of our tame grass pastures, we haven't done that as much.

But in my journey through regenerative agriculture, I found right away that we had to retain that moisture that that was a game changer.

Two inches when you're only getting nine to 12 is 20%.

And if you can, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you can get that to hold in that ground.

So when we started doing the no-till, we gained from like 0.8% organic matter in our fields.

'cause they were 50 50 crop fallow.

We went from 0.8 to 1.8.

We gained that 1% cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And then it took us a long time to get to the 2.8%.

And you know, if you, if you go by university studies, they say, oh, you can't build a.

A percent organic matter takes 10 years.

Well, the old fashioned way it does.

But then when you, when you bring Gabe Brown and some of these guys in and using the livestock and cover crops, you can create that dynamic and really speed the process of building that organic matter.

'cause you're building it from the ground up instead of from the top down.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, right, right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: that's why we've integrated cover crops because we gained that 2% organic matter then we were sort at a stalemate.

We had to do something different.

We had to, we had to just create a, a, I don't know if you've ever listened to Randall Cunning or Randall.

I watch him on, I watch some of his podcasts all the time.

But like these major events that, that, that, that piece of ground would never have in a thousand years.

But you do that and it's just amazing how that, how that ground responds to that.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: like Neil Dennis and he passed away.

He was outta Canada, a grazier.

Oh.

It's just a fantastic resource.

And anyways, he called it his deep massage when he took a bale and didn't roll it out.

He just, he just sat it there and let the cows come in and graze it cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: on areas that, that just, he thought needed attention and gave it that deep massage.

And yeah.

So these cover crops aren't really the deep massage, but they add that extra, that extra.

And there's 16 species cover crops too.

So they got all kinds of cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: 'em.

And it just, it, it does, it gives that stimulation.

It'll be interesting to see in the next two or three years if we can get that half a percent organic matter cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: a lot faster than, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: the 20 years it took us to get the 2%, you know, so, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: So, so when you have, so when you're not raising a crop on a piece of property and you put a cover crop in, you're also integrating livestock into that?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yes, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And a lot of times, we'll do some swath grazing that.

So we'll go in like about now because a fair amount of that is warm season.

there's some millets and sedan grasses and some sorghums in there, then we got peas and lentils and, there's some brass, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Radish turnips.

So, we'll actually, we'll actually go in there and swat that down and let that regrow by, by swathing that down and windrowing, it'll lock the nutrient levels into that.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And and then, you know, the warm season grasses and stuff, if we do catch some rain, it'll regrow.

So we get a double factor in that.

And the regrowth isn't so much for the up above, but it below, you know, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: to, you know, and yeah.

And then we'll winter graze, we'll, we'll, we'll winter graze that through the winter yeah.

It's just, it's just sort of one of our stockpile forges, I guess you would say.

You know, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yes.

Moving away from forages just a little bit, let's talk a little bit about your cattle and the journey they've gone through.

So I, I believe you said mainly Black Angus, and I'm assuming that was your base 20, 25 years ago.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: You know, it really wasn't.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

When I come home our, our cow herded you know, we had some Taree, we had just a whole bunch of stuff.

There just wasn't a direction.

So when cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: The majority of the cattle were black.

But I wanted to build the cow herd.

And so I started AIing and I started putting sex semen, heifer semen in my cows.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: because I wanted to, I'm a firm believer in epigenetics.

Okay.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: believer in these, these cattle that are raised on your place.

They're used to the grazing.

They're born on your place.

So just wanted heifer calves, so I'd put heifer black heifers.

Seing in, then we'd clean up with Hereford bulls.

I knew exactly what was AI bread 'cause they come out straight black.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: were baldies.

so I did that for about seven years and, and got a nice good foundation, cow herd.

And then then we went, we still kept the Hereford bulls around, but we went to bull breeding, you know, and so that was sort of the, and we were March calvers, middle of March calvers.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and, and then when we started doing the more, well, we started building our numbers.

We started building our herds.

We took on this extra ranch.

We took on a couple other ranches.

You know, we, we got up to 3 50, 400 head of mother cows and went through a couple really rough marches and thought, you know, we're not doing our justification to the cows.

So then we went to the middle of April cab.

And when you have your epigenetics and your cow herd built for middle of March calving, and you go to middle of April calving, that sort of throws 'em off a little bit.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

I can't imagine so.

Mm-hmm.

Right, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: right?

So hence my fall calving program, right?

Because I was taking a terrible amount of fallout and I just couldn't rip the bandaid off of all those years of AIing and stuff.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And I thought to my, and I couldn't have June calves, if we have June calves in Eastern Montana and we're a hundred degrees, like for 10 days in a row.

It just cooks in little calves.

I mean, they just, stu it just stunts 'em like a blizzard would cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: So I thought, you know, I'll cal, I still cal the middle of April I want to be done by the 1st of June, and then I'll take those cows that don't breed and I'll throw them into my fall.

Into my fall herd.

Right.

And then I'll cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: in November to calve in, in August.

Matter of fact, we're, we're just getting, our fall calves are just calving right now.

And yeah.

So, and then of course you hit droughts like in 2021 and, and you get to sell, you know, 30 or cows just to stay in business cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, right.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: we're, so we're we're not quite at our full capacity with cow calfs yet, but we are retaining more cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and stuff.

But cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: and through that, sorry, Todd just through that, so when you were AI and you were AI into Angus Bulls and then you were using a Hereford cleanup bull.

Now I think you mentioned once you even stopped with the ai, you kept those Hereford bulls on, did you bring in Angus bulls at that point too?

Or were you going for a black Baldy.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Nope, we, we brought in the Angus 'cause I cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, okay.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: females, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: So your black bodies were your, your terminal cross basically?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: were my terminal cross.

And then we would sell them.

We'd keep them and breed the heifers.

'cause I mean, the Baldy cow is the queen of the pasture around here.

I mean, they just got a lot of stuff going for 'em.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: But it's pretty hard to sell a may cabining heifer.

then we would keep the May having baldies in our own herd.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, okay.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: we always run like a 55, 60 head Baldy herd too.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, okay.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: our best cows, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yes.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: our best cows.

Right.

And then in, and then in 2021 when the, when the drought came, that, that was our first swing herd, you know, I mean, we got rid of our stalker steers and then we ended up having to get rid of our, our ball lee cows too.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and then my son actually leased a place over in North Dakota when he was, he still had a year left of college 300 cow place.

He couldn't say no, he wanted to finish college.

And so we bought a bunch of Ma, Jude, Calvin cows, and then I sent the Hereford bulls over to them on them batten cows.

And then I just start, stayed straight black.

Yep.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah.

And then in our fall, our fall herd because we, you know, we get 50 below in the winter time.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: straight cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: see the maps and when you guys are getting that code, I'm like, stop, don't come further south.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Right.

So, so we're A three B.

You know, if you're looking at like growing zones, we're a three B, which is cold, you know, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: cold, you know, and so some of my concern going into winter with baby calves, so we actually brought some Galloway bulls in and and I'm, I, I put 'em in on my spring herd too, 'cause I want to get some half blood bulls cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: for my own uni.

But you know, they have the second most dense hair coat next to the bison, which is pretty interesting.

And you know, we fight flies.

Insects up here too, and that double hair coat sort of protects them cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: for some of that stuff.

So if, you know, trying to get away from the fly tags and everything like that.

We're only into it.

We haven't, we haven't we bred our first heifers this year, so we're only into it about three years.

And so it's interesting to see.

It'll be cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: how are you liking it up to this point?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: So I feel sorry for 'em in the summertime because they have that here in the summertime too, and it gets pretty cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: I, you know, to be honest, Todd, I feel sorry for everyone with hair.

You know, just some of us are blessed, but, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: go ahead.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah, yeah.

But my daughter actually, we just had our fair and she had a corridor Galloway four H steer, and they did the ultrasound and I mean, it, it won or was in the top three in the carcass data.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, very good.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: I have a really good friend from Iowa, the same guy that's only had two disasters in 45 years.

He comes up bird hunting.

He buys my calves oh three or four or five times through the 2015 years that I've known him.

And, and he says, you know, you gotta get that Galloway thing out of your head.

He says, they're just 150 pounds lighter than everything else.

Bart likes big cattle.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Well, and actually that's one question I had.

What's it do to your size?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah, so I'm a firm believer in moderate cattle, but I'm also a firm believer in, you know, the further north you go, things get bigger.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yes.

Yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: nature, right?

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yeah.

Your whitetailed deer.

Will you compare a size of a buck here to what's getting harvested in Montana?

It's different.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and then even from here to Canada, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: 150 miles is huge.

And then you look at our grizzly bears compared to Alaska's.

Brown cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yes.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: so when we start talking smaller cattle, and I, and I do have a, a smaller than average cow herd, but that's another reason I brought the Galloway in, is to get some bone structure.

I still think you can have a smaller frame cow, but you better have some substance to their bone and stuff cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: our environments.

And I think that's why the black Baldy cow is such a queen of the pasture up here.

You know, Hereford has that nice bone structure, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and you put that with the Angus cattle and it's just, you know, and so, so the Galloway and I tried to buy on the bigger side of the Galloway, they're black Galloway, they're not the belted Galloway.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yeah.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: when I was searching, was searching for bulls that had a little bit more frame because my cattle are, are small enough framed, you know, like every four or five years when we're preg checking my.

guy that I have preg check has a scale and will weigh every cow.

And in the fall consistently, they, they average 1225, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: 1,225 pounds.

So, you know, we have some bigger ones and some smaller ones, but you know, that's a, I think that's a pretty nice size for round here.

And, and I like hair.

I mean, I like to watch Greg, Judy, I mean, I've, I've learned a lot with Greg, you know, just watching him.

But, and I like our cattle to slick off in the summertime too, but they gotta have hair, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yeah, yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: have hair going through the winter.

But, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: but yeah, so, you know what's funny is these, these, these cows weigh 1225, but Bart will get those.

Those steers up to 15, 15 50.

I mean, he'll get 'em big, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you know, and, and like I said, he has about 40 30 Galloway steers in that bunch, and he just says they are a hundred, 150 pounds lighter, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: But cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: They go out the end of this month and, and he's gonna get carcass data on them.

So we'll just see, if they look smaller, how they do, you know, 'cause cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: along, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: That'll be interesting.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: they have a, they have a thinner Rhine of fat, so they should actually yield.

All right.

But, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah, that, that, that'll be interesting to find out and see how that falls.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: side, on the great galloways are, are browsers.

I mean, they, they will mimic wildlife more than.

You know, I think that that's why they work out pretty good on homesteading situations.

' cause cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: they'll, they'll browse on the brush, they'll bbr, you know, and with all, we have a lot of Forbes and you know, if I can get them to eat 20% more of, of the sage brush of, of just the brush in general, you know, that's just increasing the value of some of those, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

So, yep.

It'll cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: When, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: It's just, it's a work in progress, you know.

I'm not a hundred percent sold on 'em yet, but I sort of like what I'm seeing with them.

Yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

And, and if you, you never try anything, you're never gonna find this out.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Well, and if you have a DHD like me, you have to try something all the time.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: it because, you know, I, I love, I love trying new things, you know?

It's just, yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: With the, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: me going, I.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: oh yeah.

With the thought pattern to add, Galloway, did you, were you knowledgeable enough about Galloway and you thought, Hey, Galloway's the one I wanna go with, or did you look into some other breeds as well?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah, I, so I looked into some other breeds and you know, Johan Zeman, in reading his book you know, and of course he's in a, in a tall grass situation.

So, I cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: all, you gotta put this all in context cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Do, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: on just where, on where you live, right?

I mean, I'm not gonna tell Angus Cattle to go to Texas where it's hot and, I mean, or, you know, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: right?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: but yeah.

So I did study what I thought would fit in our environment better.

You know, Galloway was actually a herd that was pretty predominant up here in the sixties, you know, and then Angus came in and sort of, you know, and more the, the higher production, the yada, yada, yada, whatever Angus, you know, did sort of took Galloway out.

But if you, if you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: the te testimonials back in the sixties and seventies, you know, the Galloway did some pretty fun things or pretty neat things for some of them herds and cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah.

And so that's why cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Did.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: on the Galloway.

I guess I, I didn't want to get, I didn't just want to get too exotic, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Do you?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And, and, and they had the bone structure.

They had the hair.

They, they, they had, they had some carcass.

If, if you were careful which ones you, you sort of selected.

And one thing that.

They, there's just not any substantial herds of Galloway.

So when you're starting to pick, you're starting to pick outta some smaller herds.

Everybody knows everybody, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, y yes.

Yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah.

But yeah.

So I, I just didn't want to go Simmental know, I love the Hereford, but I wanted to stay black.

I cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: polled.

And you know, I have some half blood bulls that we actually use this year.

So the quarter bloods, I'll be really interested to see, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And, and I still, like, I I, I only have four of the Galloway bulls and I have 16 of the Angus or 18 of the Angus.

So it's not like it's a huge, you know, and I, I'm breeding I I'll breed 80 head of fall cows this fall.

And so, and that herd won't get Angus.

They might get some of my, my crossbred bulls that I've bred, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: but, but cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: going to get straight Angus.

They will, them little calves will have some hair going into the cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: one thing interesting, last winter was the first winter that we wintered 'em.

Okay.

And we had some June cals and those little calves on their cows, on the cows come through the winter better than our weaned June calves.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: So my theory or my philosophy last winter anyways was proved right that we just don't need June calves that.

That, and maybe if I would've kept them calves on the cows, you know, all winter, that would've been different cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: But, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: just having that cow be the, be the hired hand for that calf all winter, that is huge.

You know?

And yeah.

Yeah, so, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: well, Todd, I think that's really interesting.

I'm, I'm excited to, to observe and see what you find out going through that process.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Right.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: like the, the galloways.

I got a couple of belted, Galloways, but boy, they were so small and, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Hmm.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: and I don't know how they were.

I hate to call him a traitor, but a, a guy that goes to sell quite often ended up with him.

I bought 'em off him then they just didn't grow good for me and I ended up selling them and not Kevin them out.

And I kind of wish I would've just closed my eyes and kept them a little bit longer because I, I do have a half belt of Galloway half South Pole that I'm really proud of her.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Okay, so, I had one of these first bulls I bought start to get a long toe.

Now, I don't know, but I wasn't gonna breed with him.

And he was young and he's a, he's a Zan cross, which is phenomenal carcass, supposedly.

And I put him on corn for 250 days and he was a two and a half year old bull.

And I butchered him and it's like the best beef I've ever ate.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And he, and, and his, his hanging carcass was 1200 pounds.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah, he got big.

And you know, it'll be interesting, like I said, to see, but, and those two bulls I bought out of Minnesota and they were a little, smaller framed.

Then I wanted, and so the other three bulls, I bought out a roundup and I went up and looked at his cows.

I didn't look at the Minnesota cow herd, but the blades out Roundup I did.

And you know, I'll bet you his cows average 1,250 pounds too.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah, yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and, and like I said, the bone structure is pretty impressive cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Mm-hmm.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: No todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: I was told, yeah, they got sort of a short, short, stubby neck, you know, sort of a big head and you know, some cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: they do.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: like going, oh, have fun calving them.

And you know, we've had some calving issues, but for the most part, no different than our Angus cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: decides to keep 'em in her belly a little longer, they're gonna be a little bigger, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: it's just sort of how it is.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Well, very interesting.

Todd.

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com cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Todd, I'd like to shift gears just a little bit and talk about virtual fencing.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: oh yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Now, you decided to make the leap into virtual fencing.

Why did you even think about virtual fencing?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Well, so we started doing some, well, 20 years ago we, we, we started fencing our native pastures in half and in half, you know, with, with barbed wire fence.

And then we went to high tensile electric, we started cross fencing even more.

And then we started doing polywire just like everything, because when you want to make an impact, you just gotta, you gotta change that up.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: this, this short, short duration, high intensity grazing, well, for one thing, I tried to run my herd in one herd for about two years, two or three years when we, when we first started with the, with the, the heavy fencing and I, my water system.

I just was not gonna handle it.

We cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: sickness, you know, I cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: blaming some of my breed out on that.

split the herds up.

Well, when you split the herds up you still wanna stay under seven or 10 days of grazing per year, per pasture, well then you gotta start sorting your pasture or, you know, separating your pastures up to smaller cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: right.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: that.

and so then that become pretty labor intensive.

Hired to, hired hand to do it.

you know, had been researching defense for the last five years, so we've been researching that.

My son thought, man, wouldn't that be a great idea?

So in order to manage our.

Four herds instead of the one big herd or five herds with our yearlings.

We started, like I said, we started doing the poly fence.

Well, that gets pretty labor intensive cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: factor can, can kick in cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right, because when you, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: I cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: you're doing a fence, I'm doing a fence, maybe a eighth of a mile.

I'm assuming your fences are a little longer, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah.

Like a mile, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: right?

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and, and that's why we went and we put in a bunch of high tensile, you know, electric just to cut that distance to a half a mile, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and, and So when you start doing that on five herds and you can rotate that, so you can do one herd every, each day.

You're not doing it every day.

We're not on daily moves, but that still gets to be pretty intense.

And and then we have a lot of ash draws.

Which is unusual in our part of the world.

Trees are a premium.

And so we have some canida thistle and some burdock.

We have some noxious weeds and we've, you know, we talk about epigenetics.

Our cows will actually graze.

We've taught 'em to graze.

They've taught their young ones to graze that stuff.

But we have a lot of draws and we used to just pretty much focus on the, on the draws that we had to come in, in the fall before we ship calves.

'cause you load them up with burrs and stuff and that's just, ugh.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: That's in the winter.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: we had a lot of draws in amongst our crop land that, that needed, that needed to be treated.

But man, to do that with vir or with polywire, just, and we have white-tailed deer and elk and you know, and a moose, right?

When you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: agriculture, I steal the.

The, the, like, if you build it, they will come moniker from Field of Dreams.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Right?

Like when you start building some of this stuff with regenerative agriculture, you're, you're, you know, the fresh grass, the more grass, the cover crops, the all this stuff, know, the elk might've been floating through anyways and the moose might've been floating through anyways, but all of a sudden when you start making this thing better, they just stop and they stay, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: so, so, so anytime like on a regenerative site, they'll, they'll put something unique like that up.

I know.

Alejandro had a bird that he hadn't seen forever and I put on there, if you build it, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: know?

Because I do just think that that is really what regenerative is about.

So anyways, we have that stuff.

Well, when you have temporary fence next to a corn field and you have the white tail and the elk and the moose running through it, and now all of a sudden you have your cows in there.

So it was like, okay, what do you do?

Well, finally E Shepherd is is the one that we, we settled on.

We were looking at halter and Vince and No Fence.

and, and I'd narrowed it down between Halter and, and E Gallagher or E Shepherd through Gallagher and I, I met with both of their sales reps.

You know, and we used some Gallagher product in our temporary fencing and you know, they've been a fencing company for a long time.

And I just, I guess that's who I went with, you know, and I'm happy I I did.

But it has allowed me to go up and down those woody draws cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah.

And, and if people are, you know, wondering, I think I posted some of 'em on my Facebook page.

You can see some of the pastures I built that follow, those woody draws up.

And I have pictures like next to a alfalfa field.

Next to a oats field.

And you can draw a line cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: cattle were grazing opposed to not.

I mean, that fence works.

And in their program you can, you know, you can see how many times they get the beep and how many times they get the shock.

And, you know, after three weeks of having them on, they respect that.

That beep 96, 90 plus percent of the time.

And you wonder if that other small percentage of the time they're just getting bumped or something by another cow, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: they're, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: grazing up against that line.

So, yeah, so, so, you know, we did that.

And guess one of the downfalls is, is we got rid of our hired, we did get rid of our hired hand, just to sort of offset that cost.

You know, there's some, there's some grants and stuff available for them, but we didn't do that.

We wanted to do this first 150 head.

We just went ahead and bought 'em on our own.

And so we have three herds on them yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Did you, have you changed your grazing practice any as a result of putting those on?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: well, so we've shortened some days up, right?

On some of our pastures.

And of course we're, we're grazing stuff in the summertime.

That would always be, winter be our stockpile cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you know, because our crop ground, we don't have square, eighties and squares, you know, they follow the contour of the cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: So there's a heel top out here, you farm around the heel top and you know, that's just our geography, geology of, of the ground.

So, so yeah, some of our stockpiled forwards that only got grazed in the winter time and a lot of times late in the fall because we didn't want to expose our calves to the burdock, the burrs, you know, so we'd, we'd do that later on.

We're grazing them now.

So there's a, there's a huge benefit to a season of use change on cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: ground.

I mean ground that's hasn't been grazed in the summertime for maybe five generations.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: now starting to get grazed this time of year.

So that's huge.

in, in soil health, you know, changing that up.

And so that's where like a lot of our snow is caught.

'cause we have wind too.

We just don't get the 50 below.

we get the 50 below with the 30 mile an hour wind too.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah, yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: so a lot of our snow ends up in those overflow areas.

Right.

Or in those drainages.

And so if we're trying to graze them in the wintertime and you have five foot of snow piled up in there, well you don't get a lot of grazing, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: when we started go to April calving, that sort of was nice.

'cause by March or April, a lot of that stuff is starting to melt out.

Right.

We'll get some use out of 'em.

But, and there's, there's a lot of winners.

We won't even be able to use our stockpile forage because all of a sudden we're in there cropping and the cow's gotta come out, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: unless we gotta a cover crop or something like that in cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: So these, these fences are amazing for that.

I mean, 'cause the the section 27 that we have, we lease it from a, from a lady from Georgia there is, it's a 640 acre pasture and it has 1, 2, 3, 4 draws that run the full length of it.

And they funnel into Coon Creek that runs, runs by our ranch.

And so, you know, if I was to put temporary fence on that, it'd be like seven miles of fence, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And yeah, so, so we've actually, this is the first year on there and it's just, it's worked out really, really well.

And of course we gave the callers the test right off the bat.

'cause there's trees and there's, went with the callers that are direct to the phone satellite.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: put, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: cellular collars.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yep.

We didn't put the base stations on our place, which saved us about 10,000 bucks, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Which was, you know, we, it costs a little bit more a month for the monthly fees to use them, I mean, you have to have cell service, right?

And in this particular section, there's parts of that that doesn't have cell service.

But we're fortunate enough where the water is actually has the cell service, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Has that been a problem in those areas where there's not cell service?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you know, so what I learned when I'm switching pastures like I'll go out and maybe set a alfalfa bale out where there's service, right?

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, you todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: entice 'em up there.

So cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: right, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

So, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: so you, so you want 'em to go back in the service area so it gets the new data, new data sent down, and then they're Okay.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

And then, yeah, and then, you know, I don't have the computer program figured out as well as I should, and there's some glitch.

You know, there's some things that I think the Gallagher's gonna figure out that makes it easier for us too.

You know, it no.

were talking about our education, you know, in the nineties, that's when the first computers came out.

Right.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right.

Huh?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: how they've changed.

And I, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: We're, we're very early on virtual fencing.

It, it will, there's a lot of growth, a lot of adaption, a lot of changes.

That'll be coming todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: a cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: in the next 10 years.

Next five years, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: in the next five years, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: sometimes you'll go to these conferences and these people will go, oh, just give it five years.

Well, when you're in your fifties, you don't have a lot of five years left.

Right?

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: So it's like, well, I'm not gonna wait five more years, I'm gonna do it.

And you know, and, and one of the things that, that was holding me back on Gallagher.

Was the size, the footprint of 'em.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: a, it's a pretty good size collar, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: it is.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And and I just thought, wow, you know, what, how is that gonna work?

And, and we are having a little bit of an issue with them right now, it might be a fitment problem.

'Cause not all the cattle have it, but they're starting to develop a lump right in front of the collar.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: know if it's because that collar gets to swinging, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and then bump some, and you get a bruise, and then that bruise starts into a, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: into a bump.

Now for me it's not a, it's not a game changer yet.

I'm thinking that maybe I made the, the ones that have it a little bit too loose so they get to swing in a little too cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And I think what's happening is they're fighting flies some too.

And so they're, when they're, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: And that's contributing.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah.

And I think that's contributing to it.

And, you know, we're, we're trying to be as regenerative as we can.

So, so we've eliminated some of the fly tags and fly control just, just because we're sort of dung beetle fans, right?

We cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right, right.

Yeah.

Do we like better?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: beetles.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: the fly or the dung cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: You todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: I cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: are todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: I'm gonna have to take the dung beetle, right?

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: right, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: So, but I think, you know, like I said, we're in the front end of this and, and if we don't experiment with it, and if we don't find some of these problems, how are they gonna fix 'em?

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: right.

Right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: problems are gonna be there, so maybe in the systems in New Zealand where there were dairies and they went out and maybe they have some, you know, pretty heavy fly control there.

So maybe they can make that footprint smaller.

I mean, that's one thing Halter has is a smaller footprint.

I mean, you know, I was, I was sort of looking into halter, but you know, I needed of stations that were expensive.

Hope, and you know, I hope that there's some companies that are just as good or maybe even better than Gallagher, so the price down.

Right.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: a good thing, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

You do need some for innovation, for pricing, because as you talk about the size of that, as we look at technology, you know, in the eighties, early nineties, we would've never dreamed we'd carry a computer in our pocket.

You know, it, it, it's gonna be interesting where this goes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: everybody asks me, you know, well, when I sat on a panel or, or you know, what's the, what's like, what is the biggest influence or, know, what makes your operation so doable now?

And I say, well, it's GPSI don't care whether it's these e callers knowing where these cattle are.

I mean, I can go on my cell phone right now and, know, bring up my cow herd cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and I can tap on that cow herd.

And we're Calvin right now.

We're Calvin.

So I, I see a cow that's off by herself.

I can tap on her little button and it, and it gives me your name, you know, I don't know if you guys can see that, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: know, and so that's my woody draws and you know, you can see my virtual lines and.

You know, this cow's off by herself, large green tag 30 58.

Well, what's the chance she's out there having a cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: You know, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: have to send Molly out there, my wife, to see it.

So, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: but that's all GPS, you know, and cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: sprayers, my, my tractors, my everything.

You know, it just saves on fuel, saves on, you know, just, well, instead of having to drive out and check these all the time, I can cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: on my cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: if I'm in Billings or if I'm somewhere else at a convention, you know?

So, Did, did.

So, so, yeah, I I think a lot of the stuff I have to do on my computer that's not on the phone app, you know, and maybe eventually they'll make it to where I can do it on the phone app.

But, you know, my, my son in North Dakota, 60 miles away, he has it on his app so he can check the cows for cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and my wife.

I mean, it's unlimited amount of people that can have it on their phone, and I suppose that's why they have it, you know, so, so somebody's not messing with changing your pastures and stuff.

I can shut my, I can shut the callers off on individual animals with my phone, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Okay, so like if you need to, to get an animal todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: sh cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: or something.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yep.

If I'm out there and I need to get a cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Mm-hmm.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: or something like that, I can shut him off, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, okay.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and, but you know, another thing that's cool about this is I had, so when we weaned off the fall calves, cows this spring in March.

We separated them for a couple months.

Well then we put these collars on in June, right?

And in order to get way I wanted to graze, I threw them herds back together.

I threw the calves back in with their cows, but the cows had been drop, dried up, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: two months.

And, but I needed the numbers.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Okay.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: So I put 'em back together, 'em out in the, this draw that I just showed you, where there's just a few.

And about two weeks ago, I'm thinking, man, I need to sort them, I need to sort them calves off of them cows.

So there's only one water spot in that pasture, right?

So I make a pasture, I make a a pasture around the water tank for the yearlings and around the water tank for the cows, okay?

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, okay.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And when they came to water, the yearlings stayed in their pasture and the cows stayed in their pasture.

So I sorted my yearlings off without even having to go out and physically do it.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

So, and then when we first, you know, they want you to train 'em, so they're in the training and then I moved them to this pasture and I had to go down a mile of County Road and we, we were branding that day.

So I opened that road up, sort of got 'em to that corner and I had a wheat field right alongside that road and they moved themself to that pa, that pasture.

'cause I had had it fenced off of the wheat field and my little nephew came out and he goes what are them things on their neck?

And I said, well, they're my efe.

He goes, well they must work 'cause them cows are sitting there looking at that wheat field and they're not going into the wheat cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

So I, so I made the comment, I moved.

It's my cows without a $45,000 side by side, but with $45,000 worth of collars, you know?

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yes.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you know, by the time we got them, Brandon, the other bunch of putting the collars on the other bunch, they had moved themselves to the pasture that they needed to cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: I mean, so the potential of these callers is just, you know, use your imagination, right?

I cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: I have a hundred head of my, my heifers that I breed, and then another 250 head of cows that aren't on 'em yet.

So, but I envision that they will all be on 'em.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Well, that's my next question.

Do you plan on expanding those to all your herd, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: your animals?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah, I I really do.

I because like I said, in the regenerative aspect of it, I need to, most of our pastures were not in more than 10 days.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: For the, for the whole, for 365, and then we'll rotate them pastures.

So sometimes it might be 400 days they're ever in that pasture again.

Okay.

We are a believer in, know, taking it down.

We can't get to all them in my growing season yet, but I, but I'm envisioning with, with these collars that maybe I can, I can skim graze through, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: But I, like, I go to a lot of the, a lot of the seminars and tours and, and you know, that's one thing nice about regenerative.

It's not a recipe book, you know, you can, so I like to take a lot of these ideas from a lot of different graziers and Banister.

Out of Weebo, he's getting up there in age, but you know, he has a boom bus system and he'll graze stuff like a fire, like, you know, he wants, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: graze it all and then he, he monitors the road ditches.

And when that pasture gets up to the road ditch height again, then he'll graze it again.

And sometimes that's two years, like you'll be 750 days, 700, 800 days without going back into a pasture.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you know, and so imagine the epigenetics on them.

Cattle, you just can't take cattle in and do that.

I cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: herd up cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: years.

And but when I was trying to get my cows to eat candida thistle and burdock, you know, I thought, you know, Ray, Ray does this, you know, and it's almost like you having a kid eat broccoli, you know, once they take a liking to that, you know what?

They search it out.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and it's funny, I'll turn my cows into new pasture with candida, this or Burdock, and that'll be the first things they go to a lot of times, you know?

And so, so yeah.

So I think I thank Ray for that.

And also, you know, we have 50, 75 different species out in our pastures.

I mean, mother Nature, and they're native, a lot of diversity.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: in order to get that pallet adjusted to some of that's just, sometimes you'd have to do that.

So cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Mm-hmm.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: on what, you know, right now, even the way we are, we're split up into like 42 pastures, right?

With the permanence.

And right now I will take one of those pastures and I'll just, I call it the ray treatment.

I'll just go in there and I'll do that.

I'll just graze it down cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: cows eat everything.

They, they, they have to eat everything.

And that pasture might not get used for two years, just like Ray, but you know, we got 'em down to.

or a quarter section.

I mean, we have two full sections that are half section pastures, right.

Them are our cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: but everything else is quarters or less.

So even if we don't have to touch one of them for two years, it's not like we're taking a huge part of our, our operation, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: right?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And, but I try to take one of the most diverse pastures I have that have all the grasses in 'em because, you know, little blue stem, some people around here like, ah, little blue stem.

But you know, if we catch a heavy dew this time of year or rains or snows in the spring and softens, softens that plant up and the cows just, they'll take that over alfalfa.

I got cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: know, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and so, so yeah.

So I guess that's part of that Epigenetics.

Epigenetics and Latin seed bank are, I guess, two of the.

that I really, really like.

'cause we have a lot of native bare ground too, and we have a seed bank for eons in some of that.

And just try, try to stimulate or stimulate that to get that to grow.

And so, yeah, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: It, it'll be exciting to see, just jump back to those ecos, seeing where, where those ecos end up in five years and what you can do on management.

Because as we think about management and managing grass, we're, there's things I want to do, but I don't have the time to go out and do 'em.

The ecos for E Shepherd or the other brands give you the capability of doing some of those management things that you have some limitations for whatever.

For right now, it's time.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah, I cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and, and like I said, you know, you gotta enjoy it cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, you do?

Yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And that's just all there is to it.

You're not gonna be good at something if you don't enjoy doing it.

I cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yep.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you will be, but for one or two years and then you'll be done with it.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and you know, that's another thing too with Gallagher, you don't have to have a lot of numbers.

Alright?

A lot of these other organizations companies, they want you to have volume, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Gallagher down to Forehead, know, they want to ship you a box of four collars 'cause that's what they come in.

And, you know, through our, everything that we're trying to do for our community, is important to get these smaller sized places involved in some of this stuff.

I cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: good friend in Colorado.

She's a, they homestead, it's Marygold Ranch or Marygold Farms, and she goes, man, I just love to be out with my cattle.

But it is getting to be, you know, pretty burnout.

And it's like, you know, try the collars, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: this regenerative egg or this regenerate is huge needs to be done if we can't do it time or, you know, it's hard to get out there when there's a blizzard cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: to get out there when it's raining or it's hard.

You know, some of that stuff is limiting, but if you're sitting in the house on your computer and you can change it in the rain, you can change it in a blizzard, you can change it however, you know.

Yeah.

then those of us that like change or like to do things different, you know, we could even find different things and different ways of doing it.

Within the system, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: just use cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and it's there.

And, and the support network support network with Gallagher is there.

You know, Cheyenne Lamby is my sales person.

She checks on me once a week, just sends me a text, Hey, how's it going?

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you know, they can tell when you're struggling with your pastures too.

You know, especially right off the bat, they monitor you pretty, pretty good.

I mean, they can see your ranch.

So I got a couple techs out.

Was it Kansas City?

Is that where one, anyways, like, so how's it going, Todd?

how'd you know I was struggling here?

You cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah.

You know, and they're always asking, Hey, you know what, what, what can we do different?

I mean, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you know, I'm, I, I, you know, I put in, you know, it'd really be nice to be able to edit a lot.

pasture that's going, you know, because the camera, like, I've put in some water facilities, in the last year that don't show up on my map.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And so I'm actually in A CSP where I'm doing seven day moves, right?

And, and I can't, I can't find, I can still drive with my, you know, with my app and it shows me where I'm at.

But to get precise with that, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: it, it's, it's hard.

So it'd be nice to be able to edit an ongoing pasture because in order to edit, you gotta shut that pasture off.

Well, when That pasture off, then they can go anywhere, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: oh.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: But, but you can copy you, you can copy that pasture and just move your lines a little bit and then start that pasture.

And once they're all.

It all checked into the satellite, then your existing pasture shuts off and then the other pasture goes on.

It's just that then you have a bunch of little dotted lines cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: it's, it's cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: I mean, very doable.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: And todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: but cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: early in that, in that technology, it'll get there.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: I, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: I, I think, it's just gonna be, if this is where we're starting out, it is just gonna be crazy good cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Exactly.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: already crazy good.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: just gonna be that much better.

I, I, you know, nothing ever goes down they can, if they can monitor the cost little bit, but, you know, if you really want to think about it, the cost.

If you, if, if they will last seven years, I mean, they're only warrantied for three, but they figure a five to seven year life cycle on them.

gall, I mean, and that's another thing.

Gallagher has a good, solid product.

I mean, they're, they're, their, their regular fencers are a good, solid product, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: So if you divide that 240, $50 over the seven years, you know, it's 35, 40 bucks.

And then the $2 a month that I have to pay because I have the direct to satellite, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you know, it, the cost factor if you start putting all that stuff together is, is really comparable to halter, if not actually a little bit cheaper.

And yeah I, you know, there's a couple cons I told you about the, the bumps.

I want cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: honest.

Everything that I had fears of before I bought 'em have actually come into fruition.

I mean, I've experienced cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: I like that.

One thing that's nice about having that big system is when they get pulled off, like we've had 'em get pulled off in the draws.

Right.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: You can find them 'cause they're big, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and they're cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: so they show up on your phone if, if they're within the service range.

So like, that's a challenge on mine.

bounce off, they get service every 10 minutes.

So say they're in service and then all of a sudden they get outta service and lose it.

So then you gotta sort of figure out where that 10 minute, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: when you're searching for it.

But you can narrow that down too.

And we cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, we, yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: one.

And a matter of fact, they, and now maybe this is just my experience, but they said, as long as you can send a text, you don't even have to be able to make a phone call with your phone as long as you can send a text.

they're getting service with their caller where I can't even send a text.

So I, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: antenna in their caller cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: in my phone, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

That's, that's good to know.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: I mean.

That and the redundancy like we have two different companies, Verizon and at and t that have towers in whichever tower is, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: is closest or better is what they do it on.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, very good.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: so yeah, I'm a, I'm really sold.

The other, the other 350, 400 head will have 'em on it eventually.

It's cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: I financed this bunch on my own cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you know, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: like, I do, I do have a, you know, I do the NRCS thing.

I, I do have some grants out there.

WWF World Wildlife Fund, they have a, a, a a, a grant process for the Northern Great Plains.

'cause it is one of the most intact in the world.

I cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: it's, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: what is it, 135 million acres of 90% native, you know, so.

So, so there's some grants available there.

I just, I said, this first 150 head, I just, I just wanted them, you know, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and so I did and, and cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: I, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: it's funny, my son he's 28 he's, you know, he's pretty, you know, progressive into some of this too.

But his old dad check him out before he was gonna buy 'em.

And I'm cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: oh, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: now, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: I thought you were supposed to try the new stuff.

And the dads were supposed to cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right.

Well, I'm trying to convince my dad we need them, but I haven't got, I haven't got him convinced yet.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: T Todd, it is time we move to our famous four questions, same four questions we ask of all of our guests.

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cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Our first question, what's your favorite grazing grass related book or resource?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

So, you know, I got this book at a, at a seminar and it's Man Cattle Inve by Johan Zeman.

And though he's in a different environment than we are, know, the philosophies are the same, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you know, match your cattle to your environment.

And, and so I, so I, so I do enjoy reading on that, but I think I get more of my information on podcasts such as cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: or on, I, you know, I belong to a couple groups, EERA, Eastern Montana, regenerative Ag Group, and I bel, I am on the Montana Grazing Lands Coalition Board.

I'm one of the cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: on that.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: so we sponsor a lot of tours and, and symposiums and, and I think in just our modern age, you know, so many resources out there that are available.

And then.

I've been pretty active with NRCS and some of these regenerative groups.

So even on our ranch, you know, we've had Allen Williams on our ranch, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: You know, I mean, so, and that's what's nice about regenerative too, is like, you have a question, just call somebody.

Right?

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and so I think other than the books, I, I really do think podcasts like this or, or symposium, seminars, keynote speakers, you know, Ann Fisher in at NRCS introduced me to this 20 years ago.

And you know, she's in Alaska now doing her NRCS thing, and I'm sure she's, she's motivating some young kids for soil health up there too.

But, but that journey, know, introductions to, to, you know, Gabe Brown, I said, Gabe came to Baker in.

nineties, early two thousands, you know, Jerry do with the Black Lake Ranch out of North Dakota.

At that same seminar we had Neil Dennis Outta Canada know, looking at different breeds.

I, Dr.

Christoph Weeder outta Canada, hope Alberta is now, or Hope British Columbia.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: just, it's just really nice to, to visit with these people, you know, one-on-one Eka Carter County, which is just to the north of me.

We had Alejandro Carillo down here, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and what a fantastic resource, what he's doing in Mexico cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: on, on the desert, you know, so, so I guess, yeah, in short, just not any one thing.

I just, I just really like the, the resources that are available that are out there, so.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

And you mentioned some excellent ones, but also beyond that, there's lots of resources out there once you just start looking and finding them.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: I mean, if you're interested in it, just Google it and you're gonna find them, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right, right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: or you're gonna know somebody that knows somebody, or you know you're gonna talk to somebody that'll cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: you into it.

So, yeah.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Our second question, what's your favorite tool for the farm or ranch?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Well, right now it's probably gonna have to be the e fence from cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh, yes, yes.

Well, very good.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah.

You know, just think that the potential in that is, is there, you know, the cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: just the GPS potential of everything.

I think that's exciting right now, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: probably, know, my favorite tool is my cows, without the cows, you can't do it.

Right.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: exactly.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and, i, know, our Barclay's Homegrown, we have a, we have a little sign or a a t-shirt that says it's not the cow, it's the how.

Right?

I cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: even if you have cows, you're still not maybe doing it right.

You know?

I cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: have that how, you know, and and I think I, I, that's sort of nice about regenerative too, because you benefit from that is actually in production on your place.

It's not a sales, it's, you know, like organic or grass fed or something like that.

You know, all your reward is coming from selling that product as organic or as grass fed.

But, you know, through regenerative, you know, you're increasing your carrying capacity.

You're increasing your You're in, you know, it's cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: game, you cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and, if you do a great Judy style, it's all in savings because you don't have a lot of capital expense.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah, yeah, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: I mean, you, you have a four wheeler to unroll your hay with or, or you don't even hardly feed much hay.

But when you're stuck in a zone three in northern month or the northern United States where you need a tractor sometimes just to get your kids to school, know, so, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: little different there.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah.

You know, and then I gotta give a shout out to Chad Peterson too.

He's out of Billings.

He's originally from Nebraska, and maybe you've heard of him and maybe not.

But you know, he really changed my mind or changed my attitude.

A couple years ago our Eastern Montana Regenerative Bay Group had a tour on his farm of it's east of, east of Billings, about 20 miles.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And, and he grazes, yearlings.

And, you know, he said, what's your major, most expensive, or, you know.

What costs you the most on your ranch and it's the land.

And, and, and he has a philosophy on to increase production per acre on that land, but it's using inputs, it's using some, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: feeds and stuff.

And, but his, his saying is, you know, I might be only 70% as pro profitable per, per animal, but I'm running three or four times as many.

So that's like a 210 or 280% return.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And he does the buy, sell.

It was just a really wide opener.

'cause sometimes we can get into this, oh, you can't, you can't processed food or you can't use tractors, you can't use this.

But it doesn't matter if you have a hundred head of the best cows in the world.

If you're trying to make a living on a hundred cows, you're probably not gonna make a living.

need to find that way to make that living.

And cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: bringing some stuff in, you gotta bring some stuff in.

But you gotta be.

know, you, it's gotta make sense too, don't get cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: right.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: But cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: yeah.

So cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: No, totally agree.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: been a huge, you know, a huge way of thinking for me.

Yeah.

So, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Our third question, Todd, what would you tell someone just getting started todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: do it, just do cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: do it.

I, I like that.

Do it.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: do do the Nike.

Don't be afraid.

Don't be afraid to do something different.

I'm not saying that Molly and I would've been able to buy this ranch that we're on doing some of the practices that we're doing now, because they're different.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: it, it took me, took me quite a bit of convincing to get my dad sort of bought into some of this stuff cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and I have some ranchers that pretty much think we're nuts or some neighbors, you know, I always like this saying too, I sort of thought this one myself, you know.

We live in a neighborhood, but we belong to a community.

our community is the regenerative ag community.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and we gotta be friends and we gotta be good neighbors.

But you know, when we start bouncing some ideas off of stuff, we gotta go to that community.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: I think that's an excellent point.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

When you're a young person coming in, find that community for cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Find the community.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

Find the community and, and, and sometimes that community is absentee owners.

know, there's a cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: pe, a lot of these ranches and we, we own or we lease from some absentee owners that are really fascinated with regenerative agriculture and with what we're doing with the cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: grazing with some of these tech, some of the stuff that, that the, the stuck in the rut five generation rancher that's still 75, 80 years old that you have a potential to lease from, but you might not be able to because.

Because he just thinks what we're doing is so cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: different, you know, and cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and they've been successful through the years, but, but the younger generation, just get out there and do it.

There's people out here like us that'll support you.

There's people like us out here that are doing some things that will make your, make it easier for you to find an enterprise unit to come back onto your, your relative, your dad, your whoever's ranch and, and, and try to find that 40, $50,000 niche income that, that makes it work.

And yeah.

So I say just do it, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

Excellent advice, todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: 'em.

Oh, we need cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: right?

We do, yes.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: let that one point half percent get to a half a percent cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Right?

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and it feels like it's going that cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: And and it does feel that way.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: we were sort of guilty doing that when we first started out.

Molly and I are doing, what six we're we, we we're doing six neighbors stuff, right?

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: And it's like, wow.

If, if we keep doing that, where's our schools gonna be?

Where's our town gonna be?

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: know, so, you know, so we brought in the greenhouse, we brought in the fencing, we brought, you know, just the diversity of crops just as enterprise units to try and set an example on maybe what you can do to add value to your existing place instead of now starting to pick up other ranches cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: and other ranches.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: So, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: And lastly, Todd, where can others find out more about you?

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

So, Facebook, I guess, and Instagram Todd Barkley and my wife Molly Barkley, she's my right hand man.

You know, she's really active, so we post a lot of stuff about the ranch on that.

And then Barclay's Homegrown on Facebook.

That's sort of where we market some of our.

Product.

And then we have a geothermal greenhouse, but we'll put a cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: on that too.

And, greenhouse is an observation and regenerative, we're trying to do it regenerative, organic.

We're not organic on our other place, but the greenhouse is small enough.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: livestock in there, by the way, are toads and earthworms, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Yes.

There you go.

Yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: livestock in there, but they're a little different type of livestock.

But, but yeah, that's sort of fun.

And and just, you know, I'm not, I, I don't have the scientific names, like when you listen to some people, but I do observe.

I, I just, I love to observe how mother nature reacts to things.

cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: has really given me an insight on, you know, even how our crops and how our pastures react, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Oh yeah.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: So, cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: Well, very good.

Todd, really appreciate you coming on and sharing with us today.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: Yeah.

Well, I appreciate it, and, and if you're ever up in Eastern Montana, stop in and say, hey, and, and I'll show you the ranch.

How's cal_1_08-22-2025_075921: W it sounds perfect to me.

I'll have to do that.

todd-barkley_1_08-22-2025_065921: All right.

I really enjoyed the conversation with Todd today.

Obviously, using Galloway Bulls on Angus cows to get a little bit more hair coat for winter protection is very interesting to me because when we think about these breeds, they've all got traits that are, they're better in.

And there's traits that they're not so good in.

So go out and find that breed that works for you or works for what you want.

Todd wanted more hair on those calves as his thought pattern is that it'll help him make it through winter in better shape.

He went and picked out a breed that's going to do that.

That's one thing I miss about that I don't like about the consolidation of livestock breeds.

All these breeds were developed in a specific area with specific traits for that area.

And we don't wanna lose that.

So I really appreciate what the, you know, livestock Conservatory does and other organizations across the world that do to save these endangered breeds, as well as we've got all these other breeds that we shouldn't make 'em look alike.

You've heard me get on this soapbox about black cinema.

Anyway, the, the other thing is e Shepherd, I am fully interested in virtual fencing.

I think it's a game changer.

I think it's going to allow us to manage animals in ways we couldn't manage 'em.

I think especially for those of you that work off the farm, gives you the ability to to move cows much quicker.

And also you can pull up that map at any time and see where your animals are.

I really like that.

Uh, I am very interested in it.

I think I've mentioned it on the show.

I have not convinced my dad of it yet.

So, and then you get into the debate, halter leases, the collars, um, e Shepherd, you buy the callers.

Then you've got fence and no fence.

So all very interesting.

It's important for us to research those and see how they're working.

So I was really excited to get someone on that's using these shepherd collars.

Uh, we had Joel on a few episodes ago, but he, he is not gotten to the point.

Todd is with the collar, so it'll be interest to see how that progresses.

I hope you enjoyed it.

If you have questions about virtual fencing, hop over to the Grazing Grass community and post them.

Obviously, I don't have too many answers for 'em because I've not used them, but we've got members in the Grazing Grass community that have used virtual fencing, so post your questions in the Grazing Grass Community and we'll have a discussion about it.

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