Sounded terrible.

I thought you like hit a sound effect button.

That was me leaning over we.

Are Walking Dead, a podcast pulverizing programs beyond the.

Walking Dead universe.

Sometimes we give you news, sometimes we make you laugh.

Most times we go deep.

This individual was David Cameo.

This individual at one point in time was formerly Cosmo Mom, 09.

This individual was lazy Gardner.

And we're here to talk to you about Pluribus, the 7th episode of its wonderful, chaotic inaugural season titled The Gap.

And finally, 2 episodes is too many for this to not be the case.

But finally, we're going to see how the title of this episode relates to what we just saw a couple times to get notes and enjoy and all that stuff.

What is the meaning of the gap in relation to this episode?

Well, Sharon, he was right about Manuso's journey through the gap.

And also, I think it refers to the gap in time that Carol is alone because we see, I would say, a significant time jump.

She spends a lot of time alone.

So there is a huge gap in her human interaction, which can make probably all of us go crazy.

Solitude sounds nice in theory, but after a while it's going to drive all of us nuts.

You're going to start losing it at some point.

We're social animals.

Yeah, right.

Sharon D.

Yeah, it starts with the singing to yourself when there's no radio available.

Wasn't that long?

I can drive around for a little while without the radio on and stuff and just to quiet, but after a while I need noise.

That's a relatively modern construct because they didn't have radios back in caveman days and whatnot, and people were forced to sit and listen to be with their thoughts.

We do not have the ability to sit with our thoughts anymore.

There's always has to be noise going.

Oh no, I can't even stand 10 minutes of silence.

I wake up and I turn my TV on immediately.

I fall asleep with something playing.

I cannot be in complete silence.

Now that doesn't mean I'm singing to myself, but if Silas isn't over here, I could easily go the entire weekend and not speak.

Unless we're recording.

This is the first time I've spoken today being here with you guys.

That's an interesting strata because I mean, every year for Jews that are in any way even mildly observant.

I mean, it's not necessarily always the case, but on Yom Kippur are those who don't really go to synagogue during that 25 hour fast and they'll stay at home, probably don't do anything.

They don't speak to anybody sometimes, but they also don't watch TV, They're not on their phone, all of that stuff because it's electronics.

It's you can't be using electronics or fire or whatnot.

So you're maybe reading a book for 25 hours.

You know, you're in synagogue, you're praying.

If you're so then you get your social animal stuff from there.

But if you don't and you're not really observant, you still want to fast.

You're at home alone, not doing all the stuff.

So there is practice there.

But that noise period where she is at after 48 days is well after that.

She's gotten to that healthy point where she can be alone by herself, and then we've blown right past it.

That's where she is at after 48 days.

For us, we need a digital detox that's about a month, right, to retrain like a dog yourself to be offline.

Then after that, it's when the crazy starts happening.

I'm comfortable hearing my own thoughts.

We're we're In Sync, we're lit.

We were saying we now because it's me and myself.

And then after that, that's where Carol's at, which is amazing because she was on a strong start.

And then the fireworks incident happens.

What's she listening to at the end?

Through this priest, you got another thing coming.

And what's the lyric?

I'm never going to give up, basically.

I think you're going to blow my mind.

You got another thing coming, something like that, and it's another thing coming.

Not thing y'all.

It's think.

You think I'm going to go mad?

You got another think coming.

It's not thing.

It drives me nuts.

OK, they have to think again because it's I'm never going to give up.

I don't mind being alone.

I get in my car and ride alone for all the time.

All the time.

It doesn't bother me.

But 30 days of alone, that is stretching it a little bit.

I would struggle with 30 days without anybody, 36 actually, because it's 36 days from the 12 to the 47.

That is a long time to go without any kind of contact with anyone.

The only contact she had was Patrick Fabian's voice on the phone That.

Was a nice voice.

Nice voice, but after a while it's mechanical because it's repeating and all the intonations nothing changes.

Days of listening to it, you would just be like I, I can't listen to this man speak another word ever again.

I saw a video on TikTok and it was somebody like calling the the Patrick Fabian line pretending to be Carol and they were like shorten the message.

Like why hasn't she asked them to shorten the message?

That was one of our comments, by the way, on TikTok as well.

And I actually fully expected her to actually shorten it, which is interesting that she didn't because at the beginning of this episode she got used to it, like you said, charity.

She adapted to the current situation.

And it's still someone's voice.

Yeah, this is a familiar something.

Oh, this is nice.

I'm actually hearing a facsimile of a human over and over again.

If that's all the human context she's going to get, she's going to milk it at this point.

And then she wins the $10,000 scratcher.

Yay, nobody.

To share also had a little bit to do with her breaking eventually because again, hearing that message over and over and over again when I was getting angry at consolidate your calls.

Let me think about all the things I need to ask for right now and do it all at one time instead of saying one thing and then hanging up.

I feel like at the beginning she was also just trying to be annoying.

Let me just be as annoying as I possibly can to these people.

Into the audience, right?

What to the others, But yeah.

Oh.

OK, sure.

I got you and I think they.

Don't care.

So the jokes on her.

Is the hive mind Excuse me?

Right, they don't they don't care, but she's still taking time away from somebody doing something that to make them listen to her call again it's.

Going to sound very strange but it's the hive mind is one single being that is a collective.

The whole, the individual personalities within it are.

Maybe this is my opinion, but they're gone.

All that's left are the memories, the knowledge, etcetera.

But the personalities, they're gone.

There's no individual people in the hive mind, I don't think.

Doesn't feel like it anyway.

And So what does the hive mind interact with, aside from the remaining survivors?

And the hive mind has expressed a very distinct love for Carol over and over.

I should they love everything Carol does.

Doesn't matter if Helen in particular at the time didn't think she was as talented as she could have been.

But they love everything she produces and they feel the love that was experienced from individuals, right.

So when when she comes back there, do you feel like they love Carol?

Well, no, because Larry Class said is they see things through everybody's eyes.

So there are a distinct group of people who did love Carol in the before.

And so through their eyes, they love Carol.

They don't look at the negative.

This person said, oh, I hated her writing.

Well, they don't take that person into account.

That's not part of what they draw.

They only see the stuff that they loved.

So yes, a few people love Carol.

So they're using those people's distinct personalities to say we love Carol because those people love Carol.

Well, they're making a choice, and then that choice is love.

The only reason why I ask the question is because in a way, the hive mind is interacting with all the other survivors.

That's true.

But if the hive mind is, say, polyamorous, there's a love for the remaining survivors outside of them, because the hive mind itself could feel lonely, too.

There's a longing, maybe, of the hive mind for Carol.

We're seeing it from the perspective of Carol, not throughout, but for the beginning of the end.

And sometimes I wonder the way in which the hive mind interacts towards Carol is a sort of longing and love and wanting the best, biggest cheerleader ever.

Hi, Carol.

And there's maybe like, you know, I wish we were friends, but we need space because you hurt my feelings.

It's because Carol tried to kill them several times.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean yes, that is hurt feelings.

Or also, like I said, the free speech thing, you can't not hear it once it enters your earlobes.

So they have to run away from the danger because like Walter White, Carol is the danger.

She's the one who knocks.

Since you brought up Breaking Bad real quick, I have a quick little anecdote.

The Georgia O'Keeffe Museum that she goes to.

It's also where Jane took Jesse on their date in Breaking Bad, which by the way, they could not film that in the museum.

They had to build a small replica of a portion of the museum and replicate the paintings because they couldn't have all the lights in there to film in the actual museum.

I should mention this one resource.

This one page from decider.com has a list of all the songs either hummed song featured played in the background.

Also in the convenience store, which I completely missed.

All that you can find on decider.com slash 2025/12/12 slash pluribus dash episode dash 7 dash soundtrack dash every dash song dash Carol dash things, dash in dash the dash gap.

It's so handy.

I felt like I needed to say that because that's where I got all the resources from for my notes.

For example, she's humming and then she finally sings R.E.M.

It's the end of the world as we know it.

Uh huh.

But in particular are the lyrics.

She doesn't finish it.

She says I feel and then they cut it off.

So we don't know.

Does she feel fine?

Does she?

Feel.

No.

Does she feel fraught?

It could have been any number of things, she said.

And I feel effed, Yes.

I'm sure she does, actually.

She feels fruit punch.

Punch.

With the sugar.

Or fireworks.

She feels fireworks.

So many FS she feels frosty.

Did you notice that all the foodstuffs were gone from the store?

All of the snacks and everything, the cigarettes and the fireworks were still there and.

The lottery tickets, of course.

What use are scratchers?

What is the point of Vegas now?

There is no point to it unless you make a point.

I had that thought with the scratchers.

I was well also the sign, but I was like what the points Vegas?

What's the point of scratchers anymore?

Yay they win.

Nobody to even share that with only one.

If money mattered, that would have been fun to share with someone even even if money didn't matter.

You'll notice also when she is speeding off, she obviously she's coming home from Vegas and there's all these pit stops right?

But what you may not have noticed is that she's driving on the wrong side of the road because well F it now I feel F it.

Why not?

I'm surprised she didn't even run the lights too.

As long as you're going on the wrong side of the road.

After 30 plus years of driving, I don't think I could not stop at a stop sign, you know what I'm saying?

Even if I know there's nobody else coming.

But then again, you don't know because there could be a somebody out there driving.

They still drive and do things.

So in my head, I don't.

Maybe they miss someone.

I don't think I could do it.

I would have to stop.

That's just psychological stuff, driving on the wrong side.

Maybe I could do that, but the stopping not.

Stopping on the desert.

That would be very hard.

Well, this actually brings up a bigger point in this episode between the two mirror images of a character, Menusos and Carol is obviously they had some differences between the two at least Menusos is way way, way more interested into saving the world and Carol obviously.

But this episode not only shows those differences, it shows the difference in character and how they move about the world.

Menusos does this thing where we ask the question, why does he bring money?

Idiot.

Well, what do you need money for?

Right, scratch his money, whatever, who cares.

But we figured out that he is so committed and also manifesting that the world returned to the way it was before.

That he leaves money for when it all comes back to normal, to the people whose gas he siphoned off along the way, which was the first bit of admiration that I had for him.

You go down the line and it's like, wow, he's so committed to saving the world.

He's determined that there is an after enough for him to repay his debts to not depend on the fact of the world ended.

To him, the world didn't end.

This is just a temporary condition.

Until he fixes it, he himself will right the wrongs.

There's another aspect of the gap.

It's the gap between him and Carol.

Whereas they kind of started off the same as when F these others.

And while Carol has said F them and yet still taken whatever she needed from them, Menusos has been like, no, like seriously, F you.

I'm not taking anything from you at all.

I'm wondering if he gets there and Carol is not that Carol anymore because she's got Dosha.

Whatever their relationship is going to be, she has someone that she's she's clinging to now.

So I don't know that when he gets there, she's going to be the same person and have the same feelings.

We're not exactly sure how long he traveled, but I'm sure it he's been hospitalized for quite some time with his wounds.

When he gets there, I'm not sure that it's going to be what he expected out of Carol month ago.

Carol is not the same Carol.

Right.

And the fact that he's not there already to me was a lot of information, at least on his end.

There's several reasons for that to be could he still be in the hospital?

I wouldn't say that's likely.

And if he's not in the hospital, what to say?

Why?

Why isn't he met up with Carol, is what I'm saying?

I'm thinking going to.

Be hospitalized for a long time because they pointed out to say that even a small TUT can be fatal from the bacteria on those plants and and he legit had a bed of nails shoved into his back and then he tried to fix it by cauterizing it.

So I am legit 100% sure that he spent at least two to three weeks in the hospital.

He's just now coming to or getting to where he can walk.

I'm sure he had a lot of problems, serious bacterial infections that does some damage.

So who knows, he may have had to relearn to walk again or whatever.

If that's the case, then he's had to reconcile himself to the fact that he took help from them this whole time.

He's looking upwards, the sun is in his eyes, it's a very clear day, and so maybe he was trying to shield himself from the light and they took it as a wave for them to intervene, which is kind of another bit of information too.

They were already coming down before he laid and put his hand up.

They were going to pick him up no matter what.

That was for us to decide if he was giving in and waving or if he was trying to block the sign.

They were going to pick him up regardless.

Do you think they would have Rachel?

They were watching them every step of the way.

If anything would have happened, one of them would have been there to provide help, whether he wanted it or not.

Well, let me add another wrinkle.

Because if they say that they don't even intervene with living beings, do they make an exception for humans?

Well, they won't intervene to kill something.

Right.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

There's intervene, harm or kill, it's or not.

And so intervene meaning is guiding even life.

They weren't going to intervene then.

They wouldn't bother having people in the hospital.

They would just let them die.

They wheeled them out and made sure they took them with them when they left Albuquerque.

They would have just left them there to die if they didn't.

That would be leaving themselves in to die.

If they required his permission, they would just left him there.

Their prime biology thing is to protect life.

They can't kill anything.

They can't protect them against each other.

If it had been another person there trying to kill Menusos, then they can't do anything.

But Menusos wasn't being killed or harmed by somebody else.

He harmed himself, basically.

But I don't think their job is to protect life.

Again, I don't think they have a job.

I think the only imperative is to assimilate.

That's the only one that we know of the highest dictate as far as everything else goes.

Maybe, Carol, with the wolves, we made a like a lot of assumptions that if a wolf was supposed to kick, I think that's what we're trying to deduce, is that is there an order so that maybe they'll protect humans over all other beings?

They can't protect humans from outside forces.

If an animal is attacking a human, they can't do anything about that except save the human who was attacked.

Afterwards, they can't do anything to make the animal stop attacking the human.

I imagine there's still animals out in the wild fighting each other, right?

So I wonder if they're scooping in and saving any of the animals who are who are hurt.

The further down the rabbit hole you go, you can break even and just say they are willing to save humans because they're the things that they can assimilate.

They would be saved so that they could be assimilated at some point.

We're talking about the only remaining survivors.

Why save Zocia after she got blown up, no.

No, no.

So Zocia is of them.

You can't not save yourself.

We haven't seen anybody go Wolf.

Wolf, eat me, right?

We haven't seen that yet.

And they might be looking at Menusos and Carol as future essentials, yeah.

Exactly.

We want them to be part of us.

Right, right.

Exactly.

That's where my break even is.

OK, maybe they can wiggle room that because they can't do it to animals.

I had this thought once.

We were talking like, wait, what if they're also using their drones to track animals and save them, but they can't save them from each other.

They can only save them from themselves, right?

Like Menusos, but like they're secretly tracking every single animal.

Maybe that's what they're doing with all their time.

All 7 plus billion, almost 8 of.

Them.

No.

We saw what they were doing.

They're folding clothes, David.

Which very cool that we got to see that somebody took a bath and cleaned their clothes.

Yeah, think of all the microbes they're killing.

How dare they?

But I was, I was actually thinking about this.

I was thinking us, we as individuals would want to change our appearance or our clothing type and all.

But it makes sense that they stick with the clothes that they came in with and they probably just wash those and put those back on.

And if they put them back on, it's really just for the remaining survivors because I had this thought they could just be out there naked.

Why does Why does clothing matter at all?

Right.

Unless it's to keep them safe from the elements or weather or anything to that effect.

Yeah, that too.

That too.

But I think there's going to be a blurb about that in the future episode.

Oh, we do this because you guys, you guys have hang ups about appearance and stuff.

We just use the clothes we came in on.

That's what we're most familiar with.

Jeff with his biking bike shorts and stuff.

Very uncomfortable.

Jeff cares, Jeff.

Cares, I know it's the gap between Menusos and Carol and that closed in somewhat, somewhat.

He did a great job.

He got yay far.

He got went past many different countries like Peru, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador and on that order, obviously he did a good job.

The gap that I was thinking of when the episode ended, I'm like, it's emotional, is the gap sometimes that we place between US and other people.

For people in general, the idea that we can put space or like the hive mind says, we just need a little space and how long and stubborn some people are willing to be when it comes to keeping the cells away from other people.

Menusos is just like the hive mind.

He's too effing stubborn.

They won't pick an apple.

He won't take a trail of death because he's so stubborn.

He's got to know that they're not lying, A, Carol said.

They can't lie, B.

He knows what the Darien Gap is, I'm sure.

I feel like he's had some kind of paramilitary training or something in the past, just from the way he behaves when he's on the road, the precautions he takes, being comfortable so much out in the open and out in the wild.

But you're going to die if you try to walk this clean water is going to be a problem.

There's these bushes with six inch long spikes that will kill you if you scratch by 1.

And he's so stubborn.

He's like, no, I'm still going to try to walk it.

The joined We'd rather die than pick an apple.

He'd rather die than take someone's help.

Seems a little bit safe.

This is this is the point of contention that I had a little bit with my Nusos.

Yeah, total hero.

Even the burning of the car on a level was kind of like this guy's a totally badass.

But then in the car.

I had one.

Of those, that was the other side of the coin.

You're like, I was such a fan of his until he babied it.

He didn't need to push start it and all that, right?

It's like you take a journey with something and you think you'd respect it, but no, just to make a point.

I would rather burn this than let you lay one finger on it, essentially.

And then he says he gives you his ethos, mostly with saying the fault because I had to write it down was so good.

Nothing on this planet is yours.

Nothing.

You cannot give me anything because all that you have is stolen.

You don't belong here.

And he's like, well, I'm going to exterminate you because you're a Ratas.

I suck.

I think Menosos shares my theory the aliens are coming.

And they're going to eat him.

I don't think that he's thinking they're going to eat him.

He's like they're unwanted guests.

It's like my bitch mom was.

Maybe.

I did have a thought, by the way, after our last episode, if these two are Amira Carroll and Menusos, whatever the mom is could be from birth, could be later on that she ran out or whatever or disowned him.

If they're mirror images of one another, could he not be gay also?

And maybe his mom didn't appreciate that very much.

He also seems to be extremely Catholic.

He could have the same sort of asked as Carol with conversion character.

Pipes.

That's an additional mirror.

If that's the case.

So that's a good open door to the little icon that's on his rearview mirror.

It's the L Virgin del Carmen, the Virgin Mary basically, but it's a specific kind of icon.

So L Virgin del Carmen translates to the Virgin of Carmen or more formally Our Lady of Mount Carmel, a special title for the Virgin Mary associated with the hermits on Mount Carmel in Israel, making her the patron St.

of sailors, the Spanish Navy, Chile and many other groups, especially in Spanish speaking countries, celebrated on July 16th.

He didn't take it off and put it in his pocket.

He didn't keep it with him.

He let it burn along with the car.

Exactly.

Well, and if it's associated with Hermitude, isn't that a sign of him in his own way, reaching out to whatever's left?

Not the hive, obviously, but him trying to reach beyond hope.

Carol, I don't need this anymore.

I don't know.

It's a reach, but let me finish this spiel.

It's the origin comes from the Carmelite order who lived on Mount Carmel, which means it says here the garden of God.

But Carmel is translated in Hebrew is caram L, which means the vineyard.

Caram hail means God, the Vineyard of God, so also titled the Star of the Sea.

Our Lady of Mount Carmel is the Star of the Sea, the Stella Marie and Mother of the Poor in Mexico, patroness of sailors, fishermen, the Spanish Navy, Chile, Colombia and more.

The feast day is celebrated on July 16th with large festivals, especially in coastal towns, which he was driving up for a portion of it.

In essence, she's a revered Marian figure representing protection, especially at sea.

And who is he if not a sailor lost at sea?

Metaphorically speaking, no man is an island, especially the Canary Islands, which they milked a lot of the overhead shots from which we had noticed from episodes one and two.

At the very least with the scenic boardwalks and the remember that road that Zosia was driving down on her scooter that you had a question about?

That was also the Canary Islands.

They filmed this in Spain, the Canary Islands, Mexico and Albuquerque in I think another part of South America.

So there were actually 4 MGS.

You mean MG midgets?

Yes, and in some of those different places, the design was slightly different, so they actually had to have someone come in and redesign all of the cars so that they all look the same.

They did actually burn the car.

They actually really set it on fire, which I was like, I'm so disappointed in you guys.

Completely you don't want to watch the series anymore.

I had an MGI.

Couldn't give one to you instead of burn it.

No, I'm so disappointed.

I could have taken one of those.

Yeah, again, he choosing this as his patron St.

or patroness St.

It was kind of interesting trying to be comfortable being alone.

And then that got me down the line of thinking of what he chose as his profession.

He's among all of people's forgotten stuff.

He chooses that life.

They unloved the things they hideaway in a little cubby outside of their home because there's no room for that beloved thing anymore.

They still love it, but they love it from afar.

And is menusa's that too.

He's someone to be loved from afar.

I don't know, it got me thinking, who is this kind of guy that chooses this as his way of life?

That this is something that is apropos to his nature.

He's just unlucky in the fact that he didn't find a Helen to stand up and be his front facing self.

To complete him.

Helen or Hank, whichever he want to go.

Right.

Exactly.

Exactly.

His license plate says L Fritz German shortened for Frederick.

It also means benevolent ruler.

Maybe he had a Helen and Helen's name was Frederick and that's Frederick's car.

Maybe he lost his Helen I.

Didn't think of that, but I did go on a bit of a journey with that one because also we noticed that it wouldn't start for starters, and so it was on the Fritz.

There's that.

Maybe it was his dad's.

Of course, the whole world seems to be on the Fritz at the moment, so.

Well, there you go.

Temporarily until we fix it, until he manifests its return, basically, which I love, I love.

It's pretty badass to just manifest it.

But again, we go back to his profession, the Patroness Hermitude.

He obviously was alone, and So what for?

For him, he was alone before it all ended, so why is he so invested in bringing it back, Bringing back the same thing?

Because we love our chains, Dave.

It's a good point.

Or well, it's kind of like when we've reiterated this in the Game of Thrones universe, but also on Walking Dead Bird World beyond.

It's one thing if I choose this life.

It's another thing if it's forced upon me.

I get to choose my hell.

You don't tell me what hell I get to.

I get to endure.

What's happened on Earth isn't just about the people either.

He can't go to the store when he needs to.

He can't do anything like before.

So him saving the world might not necessarily be about bringing the human connection back, but just him getting back to how he wants to live his life.

Well, and that's what the other criticism of mine comes towards him.

So for instance, Carol at least acknowledges that the world has ended, that she's lost her love of her life and she has to bury her, etcetera.

Even her saying it out loud.

What do we do to reverse?

Let's get our scientists and doctors together.

She abandoned that a couple episodes ago.

There is a way to reverse this, true, but she is nowhere near close to that than before.

So there's certain things that she's accepted.

She accepted the fact that they can put food back into the shells for her to they they bother themselves to for her convenience.

They put her first in every single aspect when menusa's doesn't rely on them whatsoever to the point where he'll he'll burn his car before they even let him touch it to take it across the border, etcetera.

That's where he lost me a little bit.

It's that there is no benefit in collaborating with these people.

I went from irritated to devastated on this episode in about 5 minutes.

He irritated me so badly.

I was like, you know what?

Let him die because this is annoying the crap out of me.

I'm not saying that everybody should fall all over them or whatever, but to the point that is self preservation.

His own self preservation.

You want to own the join so badly that you're going to let yourself die?

That is ridiculous.

He'd rather break than bend.

I.

Here comes the stubborn.

I love it.

I love how committed he is to telling them to piss off honestly.

I'm right in the middle by the way.

I know, I know like I don't, I mean, I don't need to actually want to think about if if this had ever happened, but I feel like if I were him, I I would rather die than take their help.

If I'm in it to win it, I'm sticking it out and I'm dying.

They would have to force the help.

The only reason they would be able to help me is because I wouldn't be strong enough to fight him off.

Even if he wasn't strong enough, he'd be like, I'll kill myself.

No, but he would let himself die.

Yeah, that's kind of why I thought perhaps he would have rather have left himself to die than be rescued by them.

At least he would have gone outgoing through the forest making an effort.

Yeah, he'll never know he was rescued regardless of himself, and maybe he didn't even have the wherewithal to decide.

He just held his hand up.

And perhaps that they registered as a wave.

We don't know.

Maybe we'll find out.

I think it's very safe to say that he would have let himself die before asking for help.

And be at peace with that, perhaps.

Yeah, I'm.

Serious.

I would, but maybe that's just me and how stubborn I am.

Because if you do ask for that help and there's no going back, then you feel for a.

Hypocrite, for one.

Yes, but.

You're alive, Yeah, And feel stupid.

Exactly.

You're still alive though.

It's not as if there were not hypocrites.

Every single day basically, by the way.

I know, but I wouldn't want to feel like that every day.

By dying, you're letting what is left of yourself be gone.

Right.

And that's not worth holding on to principle.

But with my pride.

So we're good, yeah.

Well, my precious pride.

Darling pride, go with before the fall.

Right.

Amen, sister.

There is a big problem in our society with people asking for help.

Do not be a menusos.

Ask for help if you need it.

It's that easy.

Nobody's going to think less of you there.

Are a lot less of me.

They would think less of themselves.

I.

Would think less of me.

There's a lot of people out of there that need out there that need help.

So if you need help for it.

Again, I'm in the middle A.

Lot of people can't admit they need it either or don't think they need it.

Or don't think they deserve it.

Also a big.

Problem.

OK, OK, so now you're hitting something that I think is more apropos to Medusa's.

Maybe, perhaps we're not seeing it.

Obviously we don't know it.

We have no reason to think it, but it could be something to keep in the back of our minds that maybe he doesn't feel like he deserves.

It we don't know enough about the character, we don't know what mental state he's in other than stubborn.

Or, oh, wait, well, I don't know.

Is there any evidence to suggest that maybe Carol feels that way?

Perhaps?

Undeserving.

Well, and for many reasons that she couldn't save Helen.

Well, I mean, after going through the things she went through when she was younger, that's one of the things they try to push in your head is you're not worthy of love if you're like this, the most important person who recognized her value and her worth and losing that person, that's even more devastating.

Because the programming is that you're not worthy of love if you don't do this.

And that could have stuck around, like you said, and Helen may have showed her that that's not true.

And well, what we find out in this episode is that I guess maybe tell me if you think otherwise, that they've been together for a very, very, very long time before there was years.

Yeah.

Because I don't think 1999 they were together.

That could have been just her in Martha's Vineyard.

That's how I got the impression that those meals were relevant to her and Helen.

I thought they meant something to the two of them.

It's hard to tell because is it that they were together since 1999 or could these have been milestones in her life like a retrospective?

I looked at it as this whole night was about reconnecting with Helen, the restaurant that they had their anniversary, so I also assumed those meals.

Yeah.

Or specific to Helen.

And if that's not the case, well, it's how I took it anyway.

So yeah, if I'm wrong, I'm.

Wrong.

Sometimes we have to kind of step back as well.

Yeah, Obviously all of these things have to do with them too, but yeah, probably, yeah.

That's why I'm here to point out the.

I was.

I'm doing the youth thing sometimes.

Quit things.

Quit things so hard we don't want.

To do so much from route.

Like no.

Wait, maybe it's something that we totally didn't think of, But you'll notice that as she goes down the line of the the list of foods she can go year, year.

It doesn't say what it's about, but says, OK, where it's from.

Martha's Vineyard, 1999.

Helen's birthday, 2008.

No place but the birthday.

But then it goes down the list.

Maritatsi.

Nothing.

Am I weird?

There is not one single meal in my history of life that I could be like, oh, I have nothing that I could do this with.

I can.

I can't give you the date, but I can tell you where it was and what I had.

Do you know the year?

I know the.

Year.

OK, she had a year in an event.

I cannot do that.

I had the best chicken parmesan I have ever had in my life at Churchill's in Saint Augustine in 1989.

It was so good I I've never been able to find anything as good as that.

Oh, what does it say about I could tell you the worst meals?

They're not the best.

The worst ones stick out to me.

Fry bread Route 66 shortly after 9/11, 2001.

Not the best but it was memorable.

I was like oh what is this, this is delicious.

Lit up my mind.

We were driving from Florida to Arizona and we stopped in Texas.

This was in 1988.

I couldn't tell you where in Texas, but it was a roadside stand that had tamales.

I remember that very well.

All right?

It was unbelievable.

One just popped into my head.

If you were Carol and you had all the time in the world.

Okay, that's, that's fair.

I feel like these things were just like at the forefront of her memory.

I guess if I sat down and thought about it, I could think of some memorable.

Meals, especially if this person was on your mind and these food feasts to commemorate certain events in your life, milestones in your life or each others lives.

I'm sure you could think of a few.

Remember the food?

It's the people that you share it with.

And maybe as you go down the list, you'd be like, oh, yeah, I totally didn't even this is totally not in my brain.

But now I remember that this happened at this moment during this meal that I had with this person that I'm trying to think of constantly because I wish they were here right now at the end of the world.

Maybe it's just kind of cool that she had that wherewithal to say instead of asking for ice cold Gatorade with real sugar, maybe I can use this.

I'm with her.

Though I don't want epic Gatorade either.

Lukewarm.

Tonight it doesn't matter to me, but instead of that, let me deck myself out, fake it to you, maybe make myself feel good about myself for once.

I have this whole crazy journey.

Just the Hot Springs.

It's getting hot in here, folks.

Even at the restaurant she had, she ran into the same problem.

It was fine for a few minutes being there by herself, but eventually the silence got to be too much and she still had to go and start the player piano just for some sound.

Again, hearing her own thoughts constantly.

Not even noise from the city.

Well, there is no noise from the city.

That's what I mean, like complete silence.

Right, the lights and the fire, but no noise, right?

Yeah, no honking horns in the distance.

But you know, you didn't note the song that she picked.

Yeah, glory gainers, I Will Survive.

Essentially, it's like psyching yourself up.

And isn't that the howling at the wolves too?

The howling of the wolves is you just psyching yourself up.

It doesn't do anything.

It's not going to repel the wolves.

If anything, they'll be like, oh, it's our wolf mother.

Yeah, what if she was telling them that that area was in the clear and they could come over there?

That's what I kept thinking.

I'm like, you don't know what you're saying.

Maybe that's what she was saying.

Because they're on their way to you.

Yeah, what if you're speaking Wolf and you're like, come on over here, guys, Everything's cool.

Well, isn't that also another reason for the fireworks too?

It's like if we can't keep depending on the lights because they're obviously not working and they keep building up, so let's get bigger and bigger fireworks every single night to light, which is not a bad way to do things.

If I had fireworks, I'd be lighting them off every single day.

Who cares?

I would too.

Just another reason why they had to build the cul-de-sac.

Beginning to see the appeal right.

I'm going to close the book on Fritz outside from on the Fritz or Fritz as a Frederick, whatever.

It's a Google AI, but just bear with me.

El Fritz in a South American context, especially Paraguay likely refers to Doctor Adolf Fritz, a German spirit channeled by a Brazilian psychics or potentially Fritz Berger, a German engineer in the Chaco war or even a local figure like Bishop Miguel Fritz.

But the most famous is the spiritual healer connecting to a mystique around German figures in Brazil slash Paraguay often linked to World War 2 or spiritualism.

Let's go through all four examples.

Doctor Adolf Fritz, the most prominent Fritz in South American spiritualism.

He's a supposed German surgeon whose spirit channeled quote UN quote through the psychics like Zay Arigo in Brazil.

I know that's pronounced wrong for healing, often involving spiritual surgeries, which by the way, is hocus pocus, the thing where they pull the the napkins, the bloody napkins out of the hand.

Oh, we just did spiritual anyway.

Fritz Berger, a German engineer who worked for a Paraguayan army during the Chaco War in the 1930s, reconditioning weapons and later prospected for oil fitting the German presence in the region.

Bishop Miguel Fritz, a contemporary German born Catholic Bishop serving in Paraguay, showing a current German religious presence, and Samuel Fritz, a Bohemian Jesuit.

This is the one that I actually like the most.

A Bohemian Jesuit missionary and explorer who mapped the Amazon in the 1700s.

Less tied to Paraguay, but a significant historical German linked figure in South America.

But why Paraguay?

South America?

There is a historical connection with German immigration, especially after World War 2.

Joseph Mengele famously hit in Paraguay slash Brazil and during the Chaca War, creating a cultural presence that sometimes gets mixed up with local folklore and spiritual beliefs, making El Fritz a potentially recognizable nickname for a German figure, especially a healer or mysterious character.

So if it's spiritual, it's like the psychic healer.

If it's historical military, perhaps Burger.

That was very delicate, edging around the people that went to South America after the war.

The.

Germans that went to South America.

But the Jesuit priest was if contemporary religious Bishop Fritz, right, it could been a lot of things.

Maybe, our dear Manusos, he's into Nazi culture.

Hey, I mean it could be.

We were on his side all the way through until the point, until the point explained.

Why he burned a British car He.

Was like, I've always wanted to do this.

Anyway, the Maritazi she mentioned is an iconic the what looked like beignets the cream filled.

Pastries.

That was the most delicious looking thing she had on her plate.

That did look really good.

Let me explain to you so that you can be hungry and hate us.

For no, no, please don't.

Iconic Roman sweet buns made from enriched brioche style dough typically favored with citrus zest and sometimes raisins are pine nuts.

The buns are baked until golden brown then split down the middle and are generously filled with she's taking your headphones up generously filled with a stripe of light sweetened whipped cream.

Well, the only thing I'll say is it's not ingredients, it's not pastries.

The name maritozo comes from the Italian word marito, meaning husband.

Ah, immediately the Times.

Sorry.

But it's the anniversary marital.

I know I'm laughing because there were two balls on a plate.

OK, and medieval times, a version of the pastry, perhaps the Lenten version made without animal fats, sometimes with nuts and dried fruit, was part of marriage proposals.

A man would give one of these buns to his fiance, sometimes hiding a ring or another small token of affection inside.

Maybe that's how it happened and maybe because balls nuts.

But that's interesting.

So now I think we might have uncovered when that proposal happened, maybe they both hid rings in their Meritazi and they're like, oh, I'm so clever.

I'm going to because it's such a literary, historical reference.

And she did mention 2008, and this was shortly before, well, actually not that much shortly before.

But as she's going down the years to each dish, right, The French toast with the fruit and then the chicken leg with the puree and the vegetables, and then you go down and it's Maritazi.

So maybe that was marriage equality according to the Supreme Court.

What was the last dish?

The last dish was looked like a mushroom risotto.

See, as they went down the list, also the years and the place and the meaning is stripped away from the dish.

That last dish, it looked like a mushroom risotto, but that was it.

She's like, oh, that's the best These crazy guys know how to cook.

And we didn't even know what the dish was, let alone a year.

Meaning place, person, association.

Did they show up at the restaurant, cook there real quick, and then leave it there?

Or did they cook it someplace else and then fly it in and leave it at the table?

I'm sure they need the grown to bring it in there.

One of those in the close.

They just had it in the close and droned it in.

I was preparing to say idiot.

Of.

Course they cooked then, like I thought, wait, actually no, that kind of makes more sense.

Well, the drone couldn't pick up the thing, right?

Remember, they couldn't.

Pick right it was too heavy for the drone before they.

Probably trucked it in and went out.

See, they wouldn't use the kitchen we just like.

Somebody still has to be in Albuquerque to handle the local things that Carol wants.

There has to be somebody there to turn the lights on.

Do they?

Can it be done remotely from someplace else?

There's lots of things that she's asking for that somebody has to be there to do it.

Somebody had to be semi close with that drone.

That drone doesn't have a 40 mile range.

Don't we have delivery drones now?

Drones delivering packages and stuff.

I would bet their hubs are not more than like 10 miles away from where they're delivering.

Well, let's go further.

It's established that they have the Internet because of the Zoom calls, etcetera or whatever.

I mean, not that there's anybody on it, but.

Binary Facebook is great.

There's nothing in my feed, why does it keep annoying me still anyway?

Right.

I don't care what this person said a year ago.

Facebook memories is all you have anyway.

They could remotely control a computer near where the drone is and remotely control it from there and that they could hop over to another computer that's closer to the drone, etcetera.

They probably have this all mapped out.

And more to the point, I was thinking about something that I had glanced at on Reddit, which I regret because now I get everything about Plurisbus on Reddit.

It just attacks me to it assaults me.

How do you see the hive mind distancing themselves from Carol?

Needing space is an expression of their desire not to be hurt by her.

Again, maybe on the surface level it's totally reasonable, a great way of maintaining your integrity, both mind, emotional, psychological.

But is it also a tactic?

Oh, definitely.

Purposefully isolating her.

Well, again, they have all of the greatest psychological minds in their fold, and most of them will tell you that people can't handle isolation for that long.

It will break them.

And they did.

They broke her.

Now, I'm not saying that they're malicious.

I'm not seeing this malicious, I'm just saying the wall that she put up, they broke it down eventually.

Rachel, do you have anything to add?

I felt like your face kind of went like, Oh yeah, obviously they would.

Obviously they're trying to break her.

I would if I were them in my off.

It's hard to say what the motivation behind the exit was.

I think initially it was self preservation because Carol literally almost killed them a few times.

So they're like, we need to not die, so we need to go over here so you don't literally kill us.

And then after that, the thought may have occurred to them that she'll be back eventually, because nobody can be completely isolated for that long.

It's.

Like the raison d'etre is not being alone.

Except being.

Joined.

Apparently.

I'm curious though.

I feel like he's going to be able to go a lot longer than Carol without human interaction.

Or not, maybe.

Again, these are mirror images of people who in a sense, you know how we say people are kind of the same all over.

I feel like he already has gone longer than she has without human interaction.

Has he?

Yes, he was not interacting with the mom.

He's been isolated.

Right, right.

But that was like 9 days that was in.

We don't know how long it took him to get even as far as he got too.

Carol made it to 48 days.

Maybe he didn't even make it that long before he had to talk to somebody obviously in the hospital maybe.

But it was forced upon him.

Carol reached the point where she asked them to come back.

I personally think Manousos could go longer than that before needing human contact.

I'm curious.

I don't think he we're going to get a chance to.

I don't know that we're kind of intense.

Yeah, I don't think so.

Because he's obviously not with Carol now, and what was it that held him?

I'm just so curious about what held him up, aside from the fact that he may still be recuperating.

That's the only thing that makes sense.

I agree with Sharon, DI think it's just recovery.

I feel like it might be more.

What though?

I mean, he had a goal in mind.

He was set out to find Carol, so the only thing that would be stopping him is injury, which we saw.

When kids go off to college, if they're in a family that doesn't like Mexicans or whatever, OK.

Wow.

Oh, keep going.

But they go to college and they meet people who are from Mexico, and they meet people from other diverse backgrounds, and they learn that these people are not the villains that they were made out to be as they were growing up.

And perhaps he's in the hospital.

He's being taken care of.

Maybe he's adjusted a little bit.

Maybe these aren't the evil things that I've come, and it could also be because he's under stress and trauma that changes your mind as well.

What is it, Stockholm Syndrome you come to like?

Your captors.

I'm not saying this is what's going to happen.

I'm just saying being exposed to them in a way that he can't deny them and add stress and trauma and your Stockholm syndrome, maybe he's changed his mind a little bit.

I don't think that's gonna be the case because that would be a weird story to tell.

But yeah, that is something that would be possible in real life.

Could it be any weirder than this story?

Anyway, I don't know.

We'll see.

My feeling is if you take away the protagonist or antagonist, however you want to consider him the pro antagonist.

I don't know.

Antagonizing their drive, then you're.

Kind of taking away the story.

So I don't feel like that would be the direct the route they go.

Yeah, he was written this way for a reason.

I think they're going to stick with this direction.

But I feel like in reality it might would change.

Well, sure, real life is a.

Person's natural, natural things.

Real life is stranger than fiction.

Well, like you said, Sharon D people adapt to their situation and depending on the stresses, might breakdown the beliefs that they may have previously held or had adopted.

David, what do you think is holding him up?

One thing that occurred to me is, well, if they won't hear me out, the hive mind is thinking we don't know where the other survivors are.

If they dropped him off with other survivors, maybe he'll feel, because let's operate from maybe one principle that they've shown that perhaps they wish for manusos to have well-being.

And if that doesn't mean with them, it might be with other people for his sake.

Because we don't know how far their empathy goes, let's say, or their sympathy or love for menusos, too.

They have expressed I love you, Menuso, that Maya, you're a bitch, mom.

But love means OK.

If it's not me, it might be some with somebody else.

And if they do drop him off with other survivors, it perhaps that's where he is.

And maybe he'll feel less of a need to urgently head to Carol Sturka and maybe they'll fill him in on why they don't like her very much.

Well, that bitch, she excluded me from the meaning because I didn't speak.

He.

Killed my grandfather.

Also that well, and I'm talking about the non-english speakers whom we haven't met actually, they get on a Zoom meeting like, well, we've got stories for you.

Have you seen this video?

Yes, she's a courageous person.

And then they'll hate Menusos.

I would love to see that video actually of them being like Menusos is.

And I really like this guy a little too much.

He's an extremist.

So David, you think he might be visiting with some of the other survivors, is that what you're saying?

I feel like they may have healed him up and maybe he's with other survivors and maybe they've made it so that, I don't know, we didn't know their intentions yet.

But maybe wherever that survivor is, it would be harder for him to independently get to Carol Circle without a little bit of help, either from a survivor or from the collective.

So let's say that survivor is across an ocean, be a lot tougher.

Or they're in Alaska.

Even tougher, equally hard drive to get to America, even Alaska's in America.

Maybe they have been keeping him from her or something, but now that she's broken it may not be as big of a deal.

But I don't feel like they would try to keep him from her anyway because they've obviously been open about delivering videos and stuff.

So I legitimately think that he's just been injured and sick and is in the hospital.

I know I would agree because they keep offering to take him directly to Carroll and if he had agreed they would have done it.

Probably I will say I believe that, but taking my everybody's good.

Taking that hat off.

It could be also a tactic.

Knowing full well he'll not listen to them.

Well, we're we're good people.

Why are you so mean to us?

We'll take you straight to Carroll.

You'll be like, I feel I don't want your help to push him into the dangerous thing.

It would be a tactic.

I don't believe it, but it could be.

But it had to be said.

Right.

Negative reinforcement.

Do the thing that's dangerous.

Please.

Menus says please don't go.

I'm gonna go.

I've told you the story about how I broke my leg as a kid.

My dad wanted me to not.

Don't do it.

No, he, my dad wanted me to go to bed and he had, they had people over obviously like no, I watch and I'm not going to bed.

And then he's like go to bed.

Like no, he was like, okay, you can come down with us and watch TV.

No, I'm going to bed.

And I slammed right in it.

He did the whole Bugs Bunny trick with Daffy Duck and it worked for some reason.

Because kids are dumb.

Head first into his belt buckle.

I enjoyed the thing that Menusos was learning to say in Spanish.

The yellow dog chases the Gray cat.

Who's the Gray cat?

A lot of yellow imagery going on.

So he's the yellow, right?

Who's the Gray cat?

It's.

Carol.

Carol.

Yeah, it could be a different right Carol Cat.

Fiona.

Who's a Gray cat?

Fiona is the Gray cat.

Are you the Gray cat?

There's also the hive mind, right?

If the hive mind is all the colors in a swirl, could it be the hive mind?

He's chasing the hive mind?

Is it a Chekhov's language lesson?

A Chekhov's Gray.

All the colors swirled together make brown.

Actually, technically it's white, but that's the light spectrum.

Anyway, the.

Other thing he said was the girl saves the mouse from the trap.

Mouse Menusos.

I've taken a lot of language lessons and that has never been one of the prompts.

The girl saves the mouse from the trap.

So tape from the 1970s.

I will say Duolingo has me learning some very weird phrases that I cannot ever imagine myself saying.

Yeah, I took High Valyrian, so I feel you.

Duolingo has High Valyrian.

Yeah.

All right, that's cool.

That was some people.

People learn Klingon, so who am I to judge?

And then the other thing he says is, and I wish to save the world.

We have two hero complexes here with Carol with her pirate hero complex and now Menusos with his jungle Tarzan complex I guess.

Well, and what is Rachel's name?

Because I thought the exact same thing.

The whole type of phrase that he says first.

He says my name is Manusos Oviedo.

I am not one of them.

I wish to save the world, but all I heard was my name is Inigo Montoya.

You killed my father, prepared to die every time.

Every like the syllables are almost the same too.

I know.

My name is Lakshmi.

You made my son cry.

Right, you made me cry.

Don't do it again.

Don't do it again.

Exactly.

Don't kill 11 million people.

Please don't do it again.

Please don't let it be one of my kids or my husband or my mother that aren't really with me on a bunch of crazies.

But anyway, who knew that they had the right idea?

Oh.

Lakshmi Oh yeah.

Listen, let's not be extremist one way or the other, because one is completely acknowledging that the world didn't end.

Well, actually, I'm not sure who's who in this one, actually.

Because if you are calling this thing your son this thing, I'm sorry.

Sorry, Lakshmi, you're calling this thing your son, this it, but it's not.

But in a way, isn't that accepting that the world ended and it's like, let's just roll with it?

Carol is like half rolling with it, half not running.

I want to save the world.

But can you put stuff in the grocery place?

Can you please?

I want to.

I like shopping for some reason.

I don't need you for anything, but will you bring me a Gatorade?

Can I have a can I just make you do stuff like a just a scorned ex-girlfriend?

And the Menusa is like, I don't need you.

I'll burn the world before it can't let you touch anything of mine.

And the world didn't end.

It's just having a blip.

That's Menusa's point of view.

I will manifest its return.

I love that for him a little.

Actually, no, it's kind of.

Scary.

Well, he was also told that he can save the world, Carol told him.

Carol, right.

That this can be reversed.

In one of her manic episodes that she re recorded to sound even less manic.

Yeah, he didn't think anything before he got that video.

So way to go, Carol.

He's going to show up and she's going to be like, oh, I changed my mind.

Could you imagine you're kidding if she had sent that last video meet?

My beautiful hivemind girlfriend.

Right, that's the that's where this conversation goes to right?

Is that he's.

Really, by the way?

And he's like, I'm not into women anyway.

So I believe you, I guess anyway.

But that isn't that the eventual encounter, if there is an encounter at all, Because they could do the thing where like, oh, it's like Carol and Darrell, they'll never be in love.

I mean, I was never mean.

But I don't feel like that's the way it's going to go because she was sent there to be a hell and replacement so.

Well, no, I meant Manusus and Carol meeting because it's like, I don't want that to happen either.

It's like a hydrogen bomb, isn't it?

It's like you got the 2, the atoms split and then now it's it's fission, not fusion.

Well, I mean, it's not like they have to repopulate the earth or anything.

I.

Mean she could be bi, maybe.

Well, maybe they both are bi.

Maybe we just got this all wrong.

Maybe everybody that maybe that's a thing, maybe everybody that survived is bi.

Have we thought of that?

It's a possibility.

Only 13 people on Earth 13.

People are truly bi, but the gay, the gay community is gonna.

I don't agree with this.

Yeah.

The 8 year old pony lady.

Oh yeah.

The 8 year old pony lady, what did you say?

There was an 8 year old that survived the.

8 year old whose family raises ponies in Yeah.

Thank you, thank you.

I just totally forgot about that fact because it sounded made-up and it is technically because this is fiction.

There you go.

Last week I said something about like the grass is going to keep growing and be overgrown, and I am so gratified to show that the golf course was fully overgrown.

I mean one.

100% disagree.

Springing up and everything like she was getting ready to hit the ball and you could see like the the plants and stuff grown up all around it.

Even a little Bunny hanging out there.

With little in his.

Nose.

Sure.

I mean, there was a little bit of extra plants, but I feel like after 12 days it'd be a lot longer than it was.

It's starting to show, I think is really the point.

And maybe the animals are maintaining the course in their own weird way.

It's like the bunnies are eating little lawn mowers.

Like the bison grazing on it?

Yeah, it's like, it's like the Flintstones, right, With the little dinosaur lawn mower things.

After 30 days, Carol was up on the roof banging golf balls.

After 30 days, all of the courses are probably way too overgrown to hit a ball.

There you go, that isn't a question answered.

Thank you Sharon D because I'm like also way more fun arguably, and she's gotten way better too.

Has she?

She was good when she started.

She got it on the green on that one drive or wedge or something.

I don't know.

If she was doing trick shots, you'd be like, yeah, third from the right, she hit it.

I mean she had an entire side of a building.

To practice on.

She didn't need to aim, she could just whack it and hit something.

They should have shown all the nearby buildings like The Walking Dead.

This is all the buildings she ruined.

It's in 48 days, He.

Hit those glasses pretty good.

Yeah.

There you go.

I just want to bring up the George O'Keefe painting, which is Belladonna was painted in 1939.

It's on the little thing.

Next.

Yeah, 2 swirling white flowers, 1 is open.

You can see the center of the flower.

The other one is kind of over it, or you can't see the interior of the flower.

It's kind of protecting the other one.

And the reason it's hanging in their house is if that is a metaphor for Helen and Carol.

Then sure.

Helen was the one that was open, or it could go the other way.

Carol was the one that was open and in the public and current heroin was predicting her.

A great painting to choose, given that the context of where it was hanging and and everything.

Her meditating on it.

Let's talk about why at the end she chooses to tell them to come back.

It really made me think about her character on the whole.

Obviously, again, we're all the same all over.

We each have our breaking point and there is a breaking point where social animals were not born to be alone.

But when she realizes she's doing the same thing over and over again, she's escalating her fireworks routine and, and one of them falls over and points at her and she's like, well, this could be it.

And then she realizes, oh, this isn't healthy.

I've taken it too far.

Maybe I do need human contact of some kind.

She was obviously not doing well, and then when she was perfectly willing to let the firework hit her and then it didn't.

And even then she hesitated a minute.

But she ended up doing the right thing in the end, which was going and getting the hose and putting out the fire.

Self preservation, partially because it could have caught her house on fire as well, but also because that's just what you do.

Which brings me back to one more thing I had was mad about Menuso's Setting fire to the car in the middle of the jungle is not good.

You can set the jungle on fire to that was very careless.

I was very angry about that.

She did the right thing and that showed her that she still has humanity in her.

She's not gone yet, so she needs to do what she can to bring herself back from that brink which was I need contact.

Right.

Or maybe he she's letting a part of her beliefs die, whether it be saving the world or living life without this presence that has assumed the whole of humanity has a thing and the only thing that actually wants has to have anything to do with her is this hive mind.

Also, like on the heels of what I said last week, no one in the world wants anything to do with her except for the hive mind, which if they'd only let her give them a chance.

And she does.

Yeah, if you're the only thing I can actually have a conversation with.

And I guess and also if it makes it so that I don't harm myself again, whatever it is that you have to offer can't be nearly as bad as what I'm capable of doing to myself or letting have done to myself.

And isn't that sort of the same thing with Menusos, assuming menusos in his own mind?

We don't know.

But he does mouth, which is why I say maybe he wasn't willing to be rescued.

He does mouth as the helicopters pick him up.

Carol Sturka, Carol Sturka, Carol Sturka.

Not as the helicopter picks him up.

He maybe he can't even hear it, but he's collapsed and he's just saying it on his side basically before he turns up.

I can't wait for the next episode for them to tell me because it's me what they're doing.

I don't like it, but I also kind of like it.

It's kind of genius, actually.

Wasn't the whole episode a lot of nothing that we're just like writing stuff about?

But really, what happened?

Manusos is stubborn, traveled the country, and then he almost died.

Carol almost died.

A loneliness mirror image.

Carol almost died, but she decided to not kill herself over her pride.

And we don't know with menusos, that's raises the cliffhanger in a sense.

Didn't you assume the 48 days because it looked concrete?

You're like, oh, he's in a hospital, right, Because they showed us the blue screen in the window of the hospital in that one episode.

Oh, still doing it again.

No mean they went to Carol again, a bunch of jerks and then what happened to him?

I want to know now do.

You know why Carol painted the sign on the ground?

So she was sick and tired of hearing the voice on the phone, right?

I cannot listen to that voicemail one more time.

Oh, let's add another layer to that, if you don't mind.

It's the whole idea of I once hated this thing, this voice, this Howard Hamblin slash, not at all.

Then I grew to comfort from it was like, oh, if this is the only thing that will talk to me, Oh, it's not that bad.

I'll put it on on speakerphone and then come back to it was like, oh, it's a little comforting.

It's great to know that a voice exists in the ether, but then it's kind of like, I don't want false hope.

I don't want to leave a message for not to be returned.

You're hearing this false voice now because you know they're watching you.

I don't want to hear this false voice.

Something about that actually hit me.

I'm hearing this false voice.

It gives me false hope that they'll actually answer me back and actually come back.

I don't want to be told no.

What if you say can you come back and they say no, we're not ready?

Still, that would break me.

What was Kumba's exact words to her in the at the end of the last episode?

To have a change of heart, right?

They just want to change of heart.

And what does a change of heart look like other than not doing the same thing over and over again?

What was killing them were her words.

So she's showing a different way of expressing her feelings by making an effort.

It's not a strange leap to connect a painting an expression of love, even if the one flower covering the other flowers to protect it.

And that's love and nurturing, right?

Then her painting the street for them to see in the sky, What isn't that an expression of love?

It is her craft.

Words come back.

It's beautiful when you think about it.

The paint is white like the flower too.

And my aunt to something.

Oh, the Junga tree.

It is a type of palm often called the Black palm, vital to the Embera indigenous communities in Panama for creating beautiful coiled baskets and masks from its fibers, though deforestation threatens its availability.

Thanks Medusa, for burning your car.

Just kidding, it's a wet forest.

It wouldn't be that hard.

It wouldn't be that easy.

It's also known for its spiny trunk and its significant part of rainforest biodiversity and culture.

The term appears in discussions about reinforced survival, traditional crafts, and even pop culture references to the daring gap.

Pop culture references being pluribus basically geek characteristics and uses the source of fiber.

The chunga palm provides strong pliable fibers used by an umberra women for intricate basketry and masks.

Culture importance.

It's deeply tied to the umberra ancestral knowledge and their role as forest guardians.

OK that's kind of cool.

Physical traits is ponchi with distinctive spiny exterior which presents challenges during harvesting I imagine.

Thanks menusos threats Deforestation for agriculture is making the chunga tree harder to find, impacting traditional livelihoods and Author mentions podcast show reference The tree appears as a minor dangerous element in the Vince Gilligan show Pluribus, highlighting the jungle hazards in the Daring Gap region.

In essence, the chunga tree is a living resource central to the culture of Panama's embarra.

People facing threats from environmental challenges.

Also, more importantly, this little highlight I found in the Princess parables.com.

Even the trees teach a lesson to be learned.

As the 8 inch spikes on the Chunga tree demonstrate, 1 brush against its spiny exterior introduces all kinds of infecting bacteria, plus a wound full of embedded spines.

It's not just the actual 8 inches.

There's like little spines on the spines and then the next line, by the way.

So the daring gap sounds downright peachy to visit, doesn't it?

Yeah, what?

What menusos?

There's a reason there's no Rd.

built through it, is all I'm going to say.

Almost every other surface of the world has got a road of some sort to it or on it, and this place does not.

So that should tell you all you need to know.

Even when he was on the paved roads, those were some narrow.

Near the end of the mountain.

Climbing windy roads?

No, thank you.

If you're looking at the map, So what I did was every city he passed through, and this is something for you if you are interested in my notes, I do write down the cities of where he's at and where he passes and where he is on the map basically.

But as he gets towards the end, there literally is no Rd.

from El Tigre onward on to the Darien National Park.

And it's fascinating.

It's scary to think too because even some of the towns that you he passes through, they're not really towns.

They're just a place where someone lives.

There's a house there, that's it.

You get to La Honda and then even that is like, what is that where the river is?

There's a river right before he crosses.

That's basically where you last leave him, the Toronto River, No Rd.

It's literally, literally what he was doing.

As the Crow finds the nearest hospital is in Panama.

It's called the Hospital de Yavisa in Darien province, Panama.

55 miles, which is what he was saying.

It's like 100 kilometers to nearest hospital.

Essentially, like you said, charity, if that's a straight line to get to the whole thing.

Obviously they're they're in a helicopter.

It shouldn't be a bigger deal, Which is probably where he is.

I would imagine you want to get him to the nearest thing.

And who knows if there are people down there.

OK, let's mention this because I'd be mad if we didn't.

So I wrote this and this will be a lead up into this scene.

Parallel they as in the hive mind to like Menusos airlift Carol out of the danger, right?

She says come back and in their own emotional way, because OK, here's here's how the scene paints out.

That was very clever.

There's so many clever, quiet things that don't have words involved.

The way shots were filmed, hieroglyphs in the foreground as Medusa is on, you know, painting the map on the side, right?

But then this scene is motion.

There's people, there's dancing in a way.

Carol comes out of the house, sees it's Zocia, pirate lady.

She gets out of her crappy car because Carol will be a more amenable to a crappy car driving Zocia, right?

Even though she's in a Rolls Royce.

Eggs.

She finally relents and doesn't have a cop car or the Unicorn truck.

She doesn't have to drive the corn more because she's given up on being the law and.

Order exactly.

So crappy car.

Zosha comes up.

The body language is on point because even Zosha, she still on the street.

She drives as far as the end of the walkway and just stands there and she waits for Carol to make the move.

Carol's walking towards her.

She looks fine.

At first.

They're going to meet up, then maybe there's going to be some dialogue in your first impression thought, like maybe they'll talk or whatever.

No talking.

They just embrace.

And not only that, Zocia does that.

I missed you too.

But then Carol's like, no, no, no, I missed you more.

And it's like, you know, we talk about pirate lady, we talk about her book and the pirate ship and sinking and drowning, right?

The way she was holding on to Zocia was like she was hanging on to driftwood for dear life, just like she was just holding on.

She was trying to survive.

It was gut wrenching.

It was, I feel like a part of Carol was trying to convince herself that Zocia was even real.

Because if you go so long without seeing another person, could you be hallucinating, right?

Could you want this thing so bad that you're imagining she's there?

I kept waiting for her to kind of grab her by the shoulders and look at her for a few seconds, Do the face touch thing.

Are you really here?

Kind of like what I was saying about the phone call.

I don't want to make this call.

I don't want this false hope.

Please be a person.

Yeah, yeah, yeah it.

Was what, a dating I was going along happily, kind of.

You know my new source is irritating me and I'm angry and oh this is funny and all of a sudden BAM right in the gut.

And what's more, OK, how do you come back from that?

How do you take that posture that you've been taking for the last several episode?

We're episode 7 was a two week time span.

Now it's 48 days.

But then now Zocia slash the hive mind, they can't Unsee what they just saw that vulnerability, her letting them it in.

I don't think we'll see a Carol that is going to pretend that didn't happen because call Carol a lot of things.

She's not going to pretend like she just didn't breakdown in their arms.

I think she was due for a breakdown.

Superhuman also.

Having a breakdown one time doesn't mean you're going to change your entire outlook on everything.

I know I said earlier that like, oh, she could change and be like, oh, Zosia's my girl now, but she also could be the same old Carol who just had a moment of need.

I mean, it happens.

It doesn't mean she's going to change her entire personality.

Isn't it what we said earlier in the conversation too?

We're kind of walking hypocrites.

Every single day we do things that contradict our intentions or what we say our intentions.

I think it's a hard thing to weave because if the audience detects contradiction, because there's one thing if you collapse and then you pretend like it didn't happen, like audience may not treat that lightly.

So I'm interested to see how they conduct for future or further episodes with Carol in it.

So I don't think she's going to have the same stance she had before with me, me, you know, like just F you, just to spite you.

I'm going to make you do things.

I'm going to psychologically tear you down.

Meanwhile, they're doing the psychological tear down, if you know, I mean.

Whatever trajectory we see Carol go in next episode, I think I think it's going to be completely derailed and change again once Menusos does arrive.

You are my hero the the great cat.

Yeah.

I'm the yellow mouse.

Dog the yellow dog.

Yellow dog, yellow yellow dog, Manusos, the Menusos mouse that was in the trap, right?

Was he in the trap?

Did they trap him with his psychological mind games?

Maybe he has to save Carol from the trap.

Either or.

He's the girl and Carol's the mouse.

So many guns that Chekhov has laid down.

I know.

And some of them are songs too I wish we wanted none of.

Them have anything to do with anything.

None of them are loaded.

None of those Chekhov's guns are loaded.

But it has to fire.

No, it's blanks, David.

Blanks.

They're all blanks, David.

Don't touch that dial.

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We're trying to see if there's any other thing that I wanted to cover, and I don't think there are really.

I just love that the 1st fireworks that Carol sees is happy fireworks and she's like no, I don't want those.

I don't know if she didn't choose them or not, but.

They were called Happy.

Yeah, it's just that happy fireworks.

And she's like, no, she was reaching out for them.

I couldn't read the box.

She had become quite the pyrotechnics expert by the last one.

Right intricate weaving.

Except for that last one.

Or whatever the one that fell over.

The one that blew over.

Yeah, so with that, I'll say thank you for listening to this episode.

We went through a lot of things that happened in an episode which you, I'm sure enjoyed without our help.

But I'm glad you came to listen to what we had to say.

Actually, didn't think I would get that much mileage from the maritozos, the beignets, the buns with cream in it.

Right.

Delicious.

The husband.

Balls, the marital buns, Maritozos.

That's like very undercover.

Hey, this is how we got married sort of reference.

I think it's kind of cool.

No year.

That would been nice, but doesn't really matter anyways.

I appreciate it and you heard the call to actions to do those things.

I should also mention that we have A and I should probably include this in the CTA.

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So bars from if you had to squawkingdead.com tap the main menu, choose shop merch.

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Whatever tickles your fancy is OK with us because you should get what you want.

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This individual was formerly known as David Cameo.

I was here with myself, but also.

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See ya next week.

You a bunch of me's, you a bunch of US's.

Is that better Rachel?

With your face.

Yeah.

You a bunch of wheeze.

There.

You go wheeze.

Wheeze.

See you later.

Hi.

Thank you so very much for making it to the end of yet another episode of Squawking Dead.

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