Did you see any high school people wearing high school sweaters who were no longer in high school?

Nope.

Everyone was bundled up.

It was freezing.

Yeah, I'm sure.

But no high school bomber jackets.

In high school.

I told them I went to a bar and I got served at 19 wearing one of my Garber High School softball.

Hoodies.

Yeah, I walked into a bar wearing high school apparel.

She's like, who does that?

I'm like basically a lot of people got served.

It was really easy to get served when we were not 21.

Nowhere to go, it's still easy to get served with.

They're all bad men and women, right Rob?

Very bad.

Yes, they weren't to me at the time, but looking back.

We are squawking dead, a podcast pulverizing programs beyond The Walking Dead universe.

Sometimes they give you news.

Sometimes we make you laugh.

Most time we taste like freedom.

Dave was so excited to do that intro.

Today we're here to talk to you about it.

Welcome to Dairy's sixth episode of its inaugural season, titled In the Name of the Father.

Amen, says the non Christian of the crowd.

I'm back everybody.

I was back during our last recording of Pluribus.

The dummy of the IT.

Welcome to Dairy Series is Bizier doing his little clown tricks behind the scenes that were cut out from this recording?

I did the Pennywise dance.

You totally missed it, but if you watch it on the unedited.

I wouldn't say that I missed it, but OK.

Lucky you, Bridget, lucky you.

And Jason, by the way, Jason's in the crowd.

That can't go without saying.

It's been a while since we had somebody in the crowd since Francisco's days during our fallout coverage.

The.

Last person in the chat was you annoying me.

Well, I don't really care.

That's a good point.

But you over here like Scorpion.

You need to really dig into this guys.

Yeah.

Did you talk about this already?

Yes, we did.

Thank you.

Oh, you did.

Well, that's shame, miss.

Bridget, can we talk about this?

Miss Bridget.

Jason, so much stuff.

On me.

Oh.

My God, I can see that kid in the series and it's Pennywise.

And you brought a friend with you.

You're like.

Scooby-doo.

So much is going to come out.

He does, though, a little right.

He does a little bit, yeah.

Well.

What's his name?

Not Alex Skarsgard.

What's his name?

Bill.

Is it Bill Skarsgard?

He has a higher register.

It's so weird.

It's what?

OK, we're going to talk about this now.

When you when you look at the photo of Robert Gray, it kind of looks like Bill Skarsgard.

But then when you see what Ingrid sees in the depths of Juniper Hill Asylum, it does not look like the photo at all.

It.

Looks way less.

Sinister.

I just have to say, see, I'm sorry, I get this.

I get what they were trying to do, but like the prosthetic, the prosthetic that they added to his head is just like, dude, why is your head like that?

Like it does unnecessary.

Because she hasn't seen him since she was 8.

So that's how he looked like.

Distorted view.

Yeah.

Of your dad's.

Just wild.

Just like a bulbous head.

Just he.

Looks like a light bulb with strands.

Why are you as good to be a clown?

Right.

That's what she cherished.

I say only this to say because in the photo he looks like a man with a deeper register.

But when you look at him in in the through the port, the portable, and then he's talks his his higher register.

So his Scooby-doo is kind of like.

It's your.

It's your Papa.

You're like.

What have have the quote?

Why are you talking like that, pumpkin?

It's me.

Oh my God.

Don't.

Be scared I could explain everything this open the door will appear.

Oh my gosh.

What in the world?

It's just because he's so excited to be here.

Yeah, For the rest of the month on squawkingdead.com we are featuring our merch and it will be 20% off for the rest of the month in honor of Black Friday, Cyber Monday.

Also, why not enjoy it while it lasts?

Because at the end of the month it goes back to regular price.

So there's some really cool stuff at squawkingdead.com.

Hit the main menu, choose shop merch and the sub menu for the new merch or hit the page and you could hit the new merch and check it out for yourself.

Yeah, I highly recommend it.

Our Kirk Manly designs are out too.

I know I mentioned it in the last time I was on here.

I probably and there's some really cool embroidered designs with that merch and Jason said he got the heavyweight shirt and it's good quality.

Jason, if you can send me a photo of you in it before this episode comes out, I could probably show you in it.

Patootie that'd.

Be awesome, he's got a good build on him.

Not to comment on his looks, but.

I was trying to be like nice, and then Dave took it a little.

Bridget's here, I'm up here.

The line is in the middle.

And he's married, Jason.

I don't know why he does this.

Oh, me, I'm married.

Oh yeah.

You're married.

Oh yeah, me.

We are married.

You're lying on me anyway.

Well.

In the Name of the Father, How does the title relate to this episode?

Rachel, would you like to state the obvious thing?

Foist Yeah, there's several obvious things.

We dealt with a lot of literal fathers this episode.

There's a whole theme of daddies and Papas and pickled fathers.

So we see a little bit of Lily's dad.

Again.

Same, right?

He keeps he.

Keeps coming back.

What do you call him?

Pickle Octo Dad?

Yeah.

Pickle Octo Dad.

Can't even get your own nickname, Stern.

No, I know.

I just make him up on the fly.

I don't remember him.

Just comes to me really good.

Well, that's why we record these.

And then we can go back later and find out Ronnie and her dad are reunited, which is awesome.

Kind of bittersweet because I don't really know where that's going to go or how that's going to pan out, but it was nice to see in this episode.

Anyway.

Of course, we gained A considerable insight into Ingrid's very sad, very delusional psyche this episode.

I feel really bad for Ingrid.

Any other fathers just to throw that in in there just thinking.

A lot will.

Will and his dad had a special little interaction there.

Yeah, I, I kind of, I mean, obviously taking notes, I'm paying a little bit more attention, but I want to say that that was a closed fist that hit Will.

I mean he should be way more devastated if that's the case it.

Looks like a backhand.

A backhand?

Yeah, it was.

It was definitely a hook, but it could have been a slap.

It was definitely a forward motion.

Was it?

I thought we'd get back in right.

I'll have to go look back and look at that.

Yeah, it definitely looked like a backhand to me.

Definitely gonna show on the screen now I.

Thought it was a slap.

Either way, I didn't think it was punched.

Right, right.

I thought so too.

But I, I after looking at it more carefully, I, I think it might have been, but there's such a difference between those two things.

Oh yeah.

Yes.

Absolutely.

Charlotte's right to be kind of ticked off.

Obviously not everybody.

It was in favor of corporal punishment, although it did seem like most people might have been.

It would have been fairly the norm, but the issue is that Will was right.

Derry is getting to him because it's not how he would have interacted with his son otherwise.

To be fair, he did just kill his best friend.

Yeah.

I did write that in my notes.

It's a high stress situation, like he's going through all kinds of grief and emotions that he probably doesn't know how to process in that moment.

And it just kind of came out.

It's not right that he did it, but I can see how it ended up that way and.

They don't have the kind of grief processing that we do.

Now it's just like.

Deal with it.

Yep.

Pretty much.

Well, and then there's the misplaced priorities, too.

He's more interested in figuring out, well, I got to get Shaw's thing done because if the sooner I get Shaw's thing done, General Francis Shaw, the sooner black people in America could be levelled up.

Is I think what is in his head that there's some sacrifice or a?

Psychological, yeah.

I could see you justifying everything that you do for the military through that.

Well, and then let's dovetail it to the emotional level.

It'll make everything that has happened thus far worth it.

My best friend dying.

Can you imagine leaving it now?

Your best friend died.

All these other men died under your watch, essentially, so you're going to feel some level of blame.

He has to go through with it now.

I can understand that the.

Fallacy of some cost, etcetera.

Otherwise these deaths mean nothing.

Yeah, absolutely.

Remember what he said in the first episode?

He was upset that he that they didn't go further in the Korean War and they just stopped.

So it's interesting to kind of process.

It's kind of like a check offs or well, Leroy's gun into what might happen near the end.

We say a lot of things or I don't know.

I say at least a lot of things that may happen throughout this year or at least the season establish themselves firmly as a foundation in the first episode.

Well, this is what the character is, so you don't be surprised at the end if he pulls something differently or she any other in the name of the father.

This is references zers what could be what Ingrid does in her father's name.

Sacrificing children, potentially.

Mabel.

And it's definitely helping lure kids to him.

Well, but we got to be careful because it's not Bob Gray, it's Pennywise.

Right?

But she did just.

I was talking about two different things.

Yeah.

Leroy thinking that the only way out is through.

In a way, it is similar to the town itself, what it feels it must do in lieu of their sheriff's dismissal or chief.

Is it chief?

The chief?

There was a reference that was dropped when they're trying to figure out who to call and they're signaling out the Barons and the railway, which I don't know if this is a reference in the book, but in the miniseries, at the very least, the Barons is where the kids go to get Pennywise.

I want to know where they filmed the original miniseries because it's so creepy.

But Bowers comes in and he goes, they're not there, you idiots.

He just does it and he does the Manor.

I know where they are.

Yep.

Which Sharon D would have loved.

But one of the guys mentions should we get the Boone brothers and the Boone brothers rolled with young Henry Bowers?

Or at least the descendants of the Boone brothers rolled with Henry Bowers in the Bowers gang later on in the 60s slash 80s.

Depending on which film or book you want to go by.

You know, the biker jackets, the switchblade with the comb.

Just kidding.

Whatever.

Surprise, I never made reference to Henry's other.

Like I guess there's the Boone brothers and there's a Patrick Hostetter who's the one who dies and becomes his ghost or Pennywise uses to hunt Henry.

Patrick's the one in the book who, because he's so crazy, Pennywise has no idea what to do with him, right?

Correct.

OK, I've been listening to a lot of stuff about him recently.

How?

Like no serious has really done him justice because no serious has really covered the fact that he was so unstable that Pennywise is like, this dude weirds me out.

Actually, I don't know what to do with him.

Like I can't scare him because he's him.

Yeah, no, I think he just ends up.

Just killing crazy.

So that's been interesting and most people say that the films did it better than the miniseries, but that's still lacking.

So it's just interesting to know that he was like so out there that Penny was like that kind of makes sense.

I don't know because.

You want the audience to be afraid of Pennywise too, and if Pennywise is kind of concerned that this Hofstra fella is going to be a liability, it kind of weakens your.

Film, well, I think it requires a lot of back story for a character that doesn't last very long.

So I think that's really where the decision to trim him has come from.

Had it been like a mini series again and maybe they could have done it, but they did 2 movies instead.

There's just not enough room for everything.

That's why we don't have extensive movie lore about the turtle.

Right.

Because the book is like 1100 pages long or whatever.

Let me start with this very important question, Hank says.

A friend of mine reached out to Miss Hanlon.

Yes, this is going to lead to a lot of big conversation on this whole series.

Did Ingrid orchestrate this whole thing?

Obviously, right.

Yeah.

Ingrid's also the one who called Bowers with the anonymous tip.

Yeah, it's very clear, Yeah.

But it goes back so far though, OK?

Could Ingrid have even orchestrated Lily's father's demise?

Might we see that in the next few episodes?

Because it's father to father, she wants a similar relationship so that she they can bond together of their dead dad's club.

That's.

True.

Wait, so hold on, you lost.

I know it's a big thing to consider.

You're saying that?

Dave is saying.

Somehow sent the kids to the theater, yes.

Dave is saying before that, even before Ingrid even knows Lily because Lily did not go to Juniper Hill until after her dad died, which is.

Before the series.

So incredibly used by Pennywise that she helped to facilitate Lily's dad dying to.

What end?

It doesn't make any sense to end up in a race war fever pitch to smuggle in more children.

Because you can see the missing children posters already are pretty of all these other children that we don't even know about.

So a lot of things are happening behind the scenes and if they can get all the parents distracted on this crazy manhunt, race war thing that's about to happen, how many children could you possibly take for yourself?

She says she wants enough to free her father, enough sustenance.

Does she think the kids are the key to that or just death and destruction in general?

Maybe both the kids to feed the death and destruction to facilitate his hibernation and maybe it helps him, who knows.

I can kind of see where.

She thinks if more people die horrifically, her dad will be released from.

Whatever, curse under curse and.

Maybe she's right too.

Can enough blood that spilled break him out of his prison?

I'm asking you as the experts.

She was.

She's not actually in prison.

That's not actually her dad.

That's just Pennywise or it being like, I'm your dad, right?

Do this for me.

Like it's not really him.

But if he convinced her, then I could see her doing that, yeah.

She's obviously grief stricken and misses her dad enough to believe it.

Or he can be doing what he always does, and it's.

Oh, I guess you're just watching a gulf for your dear old Papa.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Better luck next time.

He'll be 97.

Yeah, well, this is going to be the third that she's seen.

Well the first cycle I imagine her dad was still around and is when it first saw Pennywise to take that image and use it to lure kids in.

I guess we'll find out eventually, yeah.

Well, I hope so, that would be really cool if we get a little bit more detail.

She also said something interesting to Lily and I don't know if I misinterpreted it or if I heard it wrong.

To me it implied that Ingrid thinks Lily was the catalyst for Pennywise coming back.

OK, so I did just think that when we were talking about this, how did I not think of this last week when we were talking about this?

You remember how we were talking about the inciting incidents, the Black Spot and everything else.

You know how we're talking about the.

Bradley Gang, The.

Some of this was after we were recording because I like didn't want to spoil anything unintentionally for the audience.

So what is the pickle canning factory accident considered?

Because it's not at the end of a cycle, but it is during a cycle and it is a freak accident.

Is there an inciting incident for each cycle and then another one at the end of it?

Well, the thing.

The one at the end, the augury, whatever they.

Believe is what they call.

This is usually a big event with mass casualties.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, and an inciting incident is usually like one act of violence or horror that kind of wakes him up.

So that kind of happens in Chapter 2 when the kids beat up the gay dude and throw them over the bridge, and that's what wakes Pennywise up.

You're right, you're right.

Okay, that the Falcon do we think?

That the pickle canning factory accident was could have been citing incident for this cycle.

I think that's very possible.

Yeah, kind of goes back to the first episode where I said incorrectly, I will admit.

That's fine, right?

I know it's a big thing.

Oh, no, because I had been thinking about it.

What came first?

The chicken or the egg?

Is it dairy?

Are they that bad?

And then you find out.

Then I find out.

Oh, it's the thing this entities millions of years old, right?

12/20/20, 5:12.

It does make sense.

I've been wrong so many times I don't like writing it down.

Because you admitted it.

Really.

Thank you, Jason.

Exactly you.

Said he was wrong Jason.

OK now why were you wrong?

How would tell us more about how you were up here?

Even though I am wrong, there is some validity to what I'm saying is that yeah, but the people, they are awful, which is why Pennywise is like, I just locked out.

I'm in the oh, the best town of the I mean, obviously Pennywise came first and nurtures the Pennywise emissions in the water supply, etcetera.

He's like soiled the ground, right, I think.

Even if we were.

Gone, Dave.

This town would still be plagued by unnecessary anger and resentment.

I think the ground is no good anymore.

Well, and it could be even Stephen King saying himself, there is evil in the hearts of men.

And as long as there is evil in the hearts of men, there always will be evil in the hearts of men.

Things like Pennywise can persist, et cetera, which is why the incident that gets kicked off may not even have anything to do with Pennywise at all.

It's just like, it's like a big the birds are tweeting is that's how he decides to wait.

It's an alarm clock for him.

I hear screams and he's like, oh someone's calling my name.

Beautiful, beautiful alarm to wake up to.

It's literally the title sequence music for him.

Some fear enters in the air and he follows it like a pie grabbing him in a cartoon.

Pied Piper, except this is 1 follows the the pie.

Smell like he's just flying.

I I hate the opening song.

What?

I had this thought this morning.

It's like I kind of want to make it my alarm clock sound, actually.

Oh.

My gosh.

But then.

I thought about it and like what if I snooze it?

Oh my God what a nightmare.

I hate.

It.

So much OK, and also that'll ruin any song because I ruined the band Fisher Spooner for my roommates because I had that CD set in my CD alarm clock.

They hated me and also they hated Fisher Spooner, but this is a really good bands.

I ruined like a really good band for them.

I hate it so much that I cannot watch the opening.

I love it as soon as.

It starts I'm like Nope.

Like I can't stand it.

It puts me in such a good mood, I like it.

You're not missing a lot, but you are missing the.

I know that it's changing.

I don't care.

It's.

Slightly.

If you really go back and listen, there's this undertone that's gradually getting louder.

You've seen this episode.

Yeah.

OK.

OK.

OK.

OK.

That's interesting.

Not visually, but audibly.

Someone had done an interview with the showrunner and they had talked about how like there was some change it.

Just gets a little louder each episode and gets a little more eerie.

In the background I guess.

Good to know.

It's like uncanny valley from here or something with something about it.

I'm just like, turn it off.

You're saying the synthetic noise is too synthetic?

No, like the song itself is, well, that.

Yeah, that too is kind of annoying.

Like, real.

OK, well, I would have hated it.

You know what I mean?

Like, if I had been alive, then I would have been like, it would have been my Katy Perry.

I kissed a girl I hate.

It now I don't, but that's OK.

I get you.

I'm sorry, 2008, that's all They played on the radio and I worked in a restaurant with a radio.

We should go back to the thing that kicks things off.

It really goes to the greater commentary that I think she is the one who orchestrates everything.

She just sets the Rube Goldberg machine in motion to suit her needs.

This includes the affair with Hank Grogan.

This includes possibly getting involved in the murder of what?

Something wrong?

What does it say?

Hank Grogan No.

It's picture to be like really old at the fair in chapter 2 and just like walking by me.

Like that guy's gay?

Wait, what?

What?

Oh, it's good with the Falcon.

OK, She's just like walk.

Sorry.

She's like that guy's gay.

She's.

Kind of sad.

To incite the violence?

I don't.

It's OK I I get it.

That guy's gay.

Who's gay?

Like the residents of dead, I'm so sorry if Ingrid's job is to incite these things and her personal goal is to save her dad.

But no, I keep picturing Ingrid.

I like like old Ingrid.

What we just wow.

Stop picturing, I'm sorry.

If she is inciting these things and, and you know, it's to save her dad, it's to feed Pennywise, whatever, whatever, she would be doing it far more often than 25 to 30 years, yes.

She might be.

If this was in hopes of saving her dad, she would be constantly inciting things to try and save him, and maybe she has but it only works when the cycle comes up.

Is that kind of, I think she's had time to think about this too, by the way.

And she's maybe set the pins up so that they start getting knocked down and maybe just everything just seems to learn a certain way.

I'll give you this, Dave.

She's an instigator in this and she was an instigator in the later movies with Bev.

She doesn't start out that way.

She didn't take Mabel down there because she.

No that.

Was no, I think that's what she learned about it.

Yeah, she was.

She wanted to know what was happening and she thought maybe it was her dad.

Well, she said the word Pennywise.

I think from that point it seems that she's instigating.

I have a hard time believing that she's developing these celebrity schemes.

I don't even know what you're saying.

You're laughing so loud right now.

She said she has a hard time believing she's developing elaborate schemes.

But I think it's evolved over the years, though.

Yeah, I don't think it started doing that much.

Yeah, I don't think it started out that way.

You can dismiss the Lily thing because there's literally no evidence for it.

Yeah, but the Hank thing and then her tattling on Hank or like riding out.

Hank.

No, the Hank thing she did.

Yeah, she thinks.

She's for sure, yeah.

She's trying to start something there and she knows there'll be lots and she knows Hank's the projectionist.

So why not send the kids to the movie theater where he would likely be anyway?

We didn't see her before when Lily was hanging out with Phil and Teddy and them.

So no.

Why do you think she sent them to the they went to the library and she didn't.

All she knew was that Hank was the projectionist and she would make it with Hank.

And so it would be a cool what make it, Make it what?

She's making it with Hank.

She's making it.

She's Makin it and making it Mac and cheese in it.

What are you, 70?

Two, This is the Parliament.

Around that time they would have said making hanky panky, right So.

Whoopie making.

It whoopie.

Making it.

Whoopie making it with a Where's your favorite place to have?

Whoopie, what's your favorite?

Place to next they're they're in the backseat no so then OK see This is why I keep thinking oh she has to have been the one who set up the death of Lily's father because if she were to get Lily involved because she knows Lily is friends with Maddie or maybe orchestrated then somehow becoming friends then you're.

Reaching you're.

Going too far?

I think that's.

Too far.

If she was going to try and pull any strings on any of these children, wouldn't it be Maddie?

He was the most vulnerable.

He's the catalyst.

I think her having some sort of tacit connection to Maddie would make it so that Lily would find out what happened to him all this time.

Does she count on her finding other forms of meat for Pennywise to eat?

No, but she definitely knows that she wants to get Lily involved in being the Mabel of this situation.

And then seeing how far that goes.

Setting up Hank to be part of the massacre at the end is just like a linchpin to the whole scheme.

She's so spectacularly happy about Lily's progress.

It's beyond her wildest dreams which she was able to accomplish though.

Firm disagree.

Yeah, she didn't know that Lily was even seeing Pennywise until that moment in the attic or the bedroom or whatever that room was, because Lily notices everything and you see genuine surprise on Ingrid's face, and she's like, yeah, you've seen him.

Yeah, I think she was hoping.

Well cuz up top when she hasn't seen a clown.

Right, we know she was hoping cuz she followed them to the graveyard.

Yes.

But she didn't.

See all the ghosts flying around after them?

No.

Question.

No, I don't think so.

No, she was just the one that appeared in the darkness of the shadows with Will and that one Mazda, and her eyes were glowing for some reason.

Because the flash which happens.

Yeah, but her eyes were still glowing in the yard.

Yeah, too.

Well it's true, it's rare animals, but not people.

Well also it was blurry too, so if it hit the eye in a certain way.

You were saying that you felt like she was combing Lily to what?

Be a sacrifice.

You mean?

I don't think that's at all what's happening.

She has a kindred relationship with Lily because she views Lily as the only person who could understand her.

She even says as much.

You 2 lost your father out of anyone.

You would get this more than anybody else.

So when Lily doesn't, that's what's upsetting to her.

It's not that she like feels like she's lost Lily or anything like that.

It's because I.

Wouldn't say that.

Lily's not going to understand what happened.

Well, it seemed like you were trying to say that it wasn't like that.

That it was more of like.

Like a sacrifice.

Yeah, that's and that's, I don't think that's the intention at all.

No, I think two things can be true.

I think it would have been bonus points if Lily was on her train considering everything that Lily went through.

But I definitely think she was well a grooming her.

Sure, if she could get Lily to be the next her to continue doing what she did.

She's not going to live forever.

She's definitely not going to live to the next cycle if she knows about cycles unless right?

Anyways could have explained that I come out every so often so which OK by then she'll be OK.

She was born in 1900.

She was 8 years old as Periwinkle in 1908.

You do the math from the album photos and their dates.

She's old, she's very old, but she does live.

When they showed periwinkle in the past, was that 1908?

Correct.

Isn't it 19 she.

Looked way older than 8 years old.

She.

Did look older than 8 in that costume.

Yeah, well the hair makes her look older, but she was definitely 8 years old.

I guess.

I assume she was closer to Shaw's age.

I thought she looked more like 12.

She's younger than Shaw technically, so there's that.

So the next cycle would be she's 60.

What year is it now?

62.

So Music Man came out in 1962 and that's the movie they're watching in the 1st January, the first episode.

Next cycle she will be 89 ish.

Yeah, she's old.

Yeah, we see her.

She's old.

Well, no.

We see Pennywise as her.

That's not really her.

Yes.

Yeah.

So.

You're right, you're right.

That was one of my questions also.

That's in 2017 when you see her too.

That's.

True, that's.

True, she lived probably, maybe to the next cycle for the beginning.

She was dead in the next.

One I don't.

See, we never really we.

Don't know.

We don't.

Have.

Chapter.

One too, by the way, or even like now, because I, I kind of want to know what happens to her if this season and then maybe the next season follows this gang into the next cycle.

Let's say no, it won't because that's where the movies pick up.

The movies happen in the next cycle.

Well, they could still they could follow it in parallel.

The next season's going to go back in time.

Well, that's why I assume, but I don't really know.

We don't know yet, I think.

Somebody had said that.

I thought it was confirmed.

Yeah, it's been announced.

We were having a discussion about the air base, whether the air base was located directly in Derry, and we find out this episode it is not the air braces outside of Derry.

It is at least outside the barrier.

Leroy Hanlon tells us during his conversation with Will, right before he smacks him.

Do you understand?

We're safe.

Not for me, right?

Not for my punches or, you know, a backhanded slap or whatever the hell it was.

I will say I was very surprised and relieved and just all around happy that he was so forthcoming with what happened down there.

Telling Charlotte this thing can read your mind and it shape shifts.

And so often in shows and movies we see a lack of communication, right?

And they're like, oh, you just wouldn't understand.

And they just like button up.

But no, he is like freely offering this information no matter how crazy it sounds.

Totally telling Charlotte everything.

It was such a breath of fresh air and a different thing that we don't see very often.

I'm surprised he didn't outright say you appeared down there and I had to shoot you in the face.

That's how crazy this thing is.

Yeah.

Oh, he didn't.

He said this to somebody else.

But there was the episode where he sees the silhouette of Pennywise.

But now we know that that's.

That was.

Paranoid.

Right.

And he comes out, he's all acting all crazy.

Are you talking about when he's in the road?

Yeah, that's right.

Well, Will saw right in the Perry winkle.

Oh, OK.

But I thought he's right.

Did it.

He saw the blow.

Oh, right, right, right.

Floating in the.

But he still acted crazy.

Yeah, he did.

Yes, he was acting crazy, which is really more of my point.

Good job.

So now.

Now after his sewer incident, right.

The sewer debacle, of course he's being forthcoming.

It's a thing we love.

But I don't think it's going to serve him well when it comes to this whole thing that's about to happen.

Because if he starts talking to like regular people about this thing and they're in the heat of this mouth foaming mob justice, quote UN quote, it's not going to go well for him.

He's just going to get swept up in it somehow because who's going to?

I just I mentioned this reference every now and again.

What's about to happen next is a lot like what happens at the end of I think season 3 of Star Trek when they introduced the Borg.

It's like the unwinnable situation.

You know what's coming or what's about to come or you feel like what's about to come is absolutely impossible to stop.

And it's like watching a car crash in slow motion.

Literally the sign outside the black spots.

Please do not speed over 15 miles an hour.

So this is the slowest of car crashes.

And I don't know who said this in one previous recording, but it's kind of like there's some really, really hard to swallow concepts that if they go full tilt on, especially when it comes to something like this, it's hard to watch.

And we will.

We will.

Yeah, we had talked about that last episode.

I think that it's just hard to watch this show sometimes.

On the other side of that argument, there are some things that the head Patty cake, Patty, Patricia, whatever her name is, the bully she called Rich, Ricky Ricardo.

I thought she could have gone a little further with that, just saying out loud well enough.

No, it wasn't enough.

OK, they're children, but OK, yeah.

We were once children.

We've heard way worse.

You know you have.

Yeah, he's not wrong.

Thank you.

From adults mainly.

But OK from adults?

Can I just say I'm so happy Marge didn't fall back to going back to the Patty cake.

She.

Touch and go for a second there I thought for.

Sure it was.

I thought she was going to.

I was like no please.

The Pavlovian response though, too.

Oh, hi, Patty.

When she looked back at everybody else staring at her, I was like, oh God, she's not going to be able to stand up for herself.

She was so wrapped up with Rich, she didn't realize she was at the geek table.

Like little molecular models on the table.

Like, just to emphasize how geeky or freaky these kids are, right?

Nerds, Bridget would say.

Normally I'm throwing you under the bus.

And then Marge looks back and goes, oh, well, I guess that wasn't so bad.

Actually.

I feel terrible every single time.

I'm with you, Patty cake.

So how about this?

She shows them her drooping.

One gagging at the sight of her eye like it was even that bad.

Like.

It's hard to look at.

Gum she was.

Choking on her gum, she she gasped so hard at the.

Eyes, she's like, she's always like like smacking.

Yeah.

We all have one friend that does it.

It's obsessed with gum.

I don't know, maybe it's not a thing anymore, but it is.

It's me.

I'm that friend.

I really like chewing gum.

Also, I can't chew Double Bubble because I swallow it because it gets too slimy and then I can't stand chewing it anymore.

And then I do like a minty gum.

Yeah, and lately I've really wanted Big Red for some reason.

That little spicy pregnancy I was going.

To say that's not pregnancy.

That's that spicy cinnamon gum ish to get the big chew.

Oh yeah, but see, I want to swallow that too big.

Chew or.

Big league.

I start chewing it and then all of a sudden it gets too slimy and I'm like, I gotta swallow this.

It's it's just better big.

League Chew sort of does it's disintegration thing though, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, it turns really gross.

No fruity stripe is my favorite fruit stripe.

Man, I have that big chew ever.

I don't think they make my favorite flavor of that anymore though.

What's that?

Grape green?

Apple green.

Apple.

Oh grape, they still make.

And they still make the bubble gum, I'm pretty sure.

You heard it here, folks, so let's stay here for a second because I think it's in that scene that Rich gives Marge an eye patch and this is what he says.

Dispute It supposedly belonged to a Corsair my ancestors knew back in Cuba.

There is only one Corsair in the history of Cuba.

His name is Rahma Ibn Jabir al Jahami.

He existed from 1760 to 1826.

He was an Arab ruler.

OK, there we go.

I was like, if this is meant to be pronounced with a Spanish accent, you're butchering.

No, that's what's so interesting about it, isn't it?

This was an Arab ruler and pirate primarily known for his activities in the Persian Gulf region.

But wait.

While most famous for his Gulf exploits, historical records indicate connections to Cuba during his career.

According to some accounts, Hamad bin Jabir Al Jahami conducted some of his pirate operations in the Caribbean and lived in the San Lazaro district of Havana, Cuba.

This was likely during a period that overlapped with the US Navy's West Indies anti piracy operations in the area.

His primary area of operations, however, remained in the Persian Gulf, where he gained notoriety for his ruthlessness wearing an eye patch after an injury and his dramatic death lighting gunpowder kegs on his ship, which was called Alvatrucha to avoid captured by the AL Khalifa family, killing everybody aboard, including his eight-year old son.

But.

He's like death before dishonor, but like everybody dies scorched.

Ibn Jabir al Jahami is sometimes considered a national hero in Qatar.

I thought that was an extra flourish to this guy's background.

He killed everyone, but he's a hero.

So if Rich is telling the truth, which it's very likely that he isn't, but let's just say that he is.

Well, it's, it's just like a fun family embellishment, I'm sure you know.

Sure, but if that's the case, this would be the guy they got the eye patch from.

Rich is that kid that believes every single family story he's ever been told.

Yeah, like when my great grandpa told me he invented the question mark.

Say more.

He also invented jazz.

Sure.

Yeah, the dates don't line up at all, but.

OK, no, he was the mayor of his town, Poseyville, which funny enough is where Paul Bunyan and Babe the Blue Ox died and are buried.

I did a whole report on my granddad when I was in junior high and this is all in my report.

Well, feelings just say weird stories like because it's funny because my mom told me that when I was born, I came out and I had a conehead, you know, as babies do.

So what I did was I just pressed down on it to round it out.

So you didn't have a conehead anymore.

Obviously my mom didn't press down on my skull.

I hope not.

Yeah, it's just those cute little family.

Stories, stories that they tell you 'cause they think it's funny.

And then you grow up for a little while thinking that checks out.

You definitely formed my skull, 'cause you heard surely checks out.

Adult.

You believe it?

Well.

It's like we'll never call my dad a liar.

My dad was a paramedic in New York City for 20 years.

He has some crazy stories, most notably that he pronounced John Lennon dead.

Oh OK.

He worked in the city in the 80s and stuff like that, so I'm inclined to believe it.

Maybe he knew something.

No way for me to prove it.

Yeah, yeah, that's how he remembers it, that's all.

That I'm pretty sure he at least worked on him when that happened, but yeah.

It's just like when you tell kids if you swallow watermelon seeds, you're going to grow watermelon in your belly.

You can't swallow gum because it'll stay in your digestive system for seven years.

None of those things are real.

It's not real.

By the way, Dave, it comes out normal.

Yeah.

My dad told me if dragonflies landed on me they would sew my eyes shut.

Oh wow.

That's horrifying.

That's a bad man right there.

That's.

Horrifying.

That's terrible.

Why wouldn't you be?

Of course.

You would be.

I don't want those near me.

No, I don't even know why he's that.

Like they don't.

Do anything.

This is funny to him.

And then of course Marge is in love with it.

She's always wanted to be a pirate and a pirate in a knight.

And all those two things are from 2 gross things.

The gross eye patch, which is undoubtedly from the grandpa who had pink eye and the chamber pot next to Rich's bed.

Basically even Knights had them.

They give us an important bit of information that even though we don't see it happening, these kids are still very much being tormented by Pennywise.

The pipes, right?

They can't go to the bathroom for the boy, right?

We don't see it, but they definitely, you know, they mention it, so we know.

So let me point out that Marge asks for the information.

She said no, please share it with me.

And then when he did, she was absolutely disgusted by it.

I was like you asked.

You pushed him to do it.

But that's why she paused.

So she was grossed out by it because she's like, Oh yeah, that's kind of a lot.

But then to soften that, she says, oh, well, that's OK because chamber pots were used even by night.

She's trying to say like, it's OK, you're still brave, you're still tough.

We're still going through this together.

Which?

Is literally what he did about her.

I don't like the theory for Rich.

I don't like the idea that Marge is trash mouse mom.

Wait, wait, that's the part you don't like?

She doesn't like the reason.

I don't like that she would have named him Rich because this rich dies and like that's her way of paying her respects to him later in life is naming herself.

That's what you don't like?

Exactly.

I hate that because I don't want that.

To be the case.

Well, he's just like a really sweet, likable kid.

And so this is going to be really heartbreaking if that were to be what happens, which is.

Exactly why it's going to.

It's not ready for it.

There's so much we're not ready for.

Well, we already know Will has plot armor, so.

Yeah, personally he does.

Boy, you know, people are are are coming out of the woodwork saying nobody really has plot armor but.

That's not true, but OK.

But they do to an extent, like he'd get hurt, but he's definitely not going to die.

Right.

That's like, we know Teddy's brother lives because he has to, because there are no other EUR kids, you know?

It's like, and Will has to live because he has a son.

It's funny because like even in the beginning of the episode it doesn't matter if Will lives or not because at least in the movies he's no longer there when Leroy is teaching.

Mike had to not have fear, right?

You mentioned this in the last episode.

In the books, they're alive, whatever.

They didn't die in a fire or whatnot.

Yeah, it doesn't happen that way, but yeah, in the movie.

I love that first scene though, because the first scene in this episode, not the first scene but of them fighting and Leroy strikes him.

Something about that really made me so sad because I speed ahead to the movies where he was doing the thing with Mike.

And I'm just thinking to myself how this is how it's going to go down.

And you're probably not going to have a connection to your family until Mike shows up on your doorstep after your kid, whom you hit, dies.

And then you have to be the one to protect him.

And all this time you knew about this town, and obviously this town makes you forget about these things.

Why didn't he leave Derry?

Because maybe he felt like it was his burden to bear at that point.

Maybe, but at that point I feel like, as the adults tend to do, they forget.

Well, that's sort of what I mean to, but maybe he didn't forget.

To be fair, we don't know that Leroy ever leaves.

Leroy could stay.

Charlotte and Will could leave and not every night.

This could be the end of this family.

As far as we know, we know nothing about Charlotte, no.

We don't.

Well, who knows, this could be it.

Yeah, Mike from probably a young age came over to Derrick to be with.

Well, because his parents died and then he gets sent to be live with his grandfather.

Yeah, exactly so.

From that point, he stayed, right.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Also sad, though, because again, you go back to that scene where they're fighting.

It just made me so sad to think.

According to the movies, yeah.

That's sadder if we're thinking that they leave and they don't ever come back because then.

This is like this.

Is really like Leroy's last interaction.

And also think about what's about to happen in at the black spot.

That could be the flashpoint and and that's how they have to leave is just escaping for their lives.

And that's the last image.

You didn't make it right with your kid.

Well, I'm very.

Gonna make it right with Mike.

What happens here?

Because like try to the black spot lore is not following the book like at all.

No, but we know that it's still going to be the incident that happens.

Yeah, but like none of the people that are in there are in there in the book.

That's what's confusing about this.

I'm really interested to see what happens.

So I'm curious to know, I don't know what that is.

Is this something that we want to discuss?

Well, after that we discussed it after, yeah, it's a little spoilery.

I'll refrain from it now, but we can go over it when we get to that point so I can explain what the difference.

Why do we just do it now?

Right now it's a theory.

Nothing's really spoilery.

That's true.

Especially if you're saying that it's not tracking so far.

Then, well, none of this.

Time being called the Black Spot.

The Black Spot is a cataclysmic ending augury event in the book, and the Black Spot is started by Will Hanlon and Dick Halloran.

What?

That time frame doesn't make any sense for this show.

So what they've done is they've aged Dick back to be as old as Leroy, when technically he would have been closer to Will's age.

I think Dick is young.

Maybe I'm wrong.

OK, I was about.

That much they're much closer in age, Will and Dick, and that's not at all the case for this.

Which is fine.

If the whole concept behind this is an extended universe and they're trying to plan that out, then that might be why they've pushed Palloran back.

Based on what his age is at the time of the Shining, which takes place when.

19.

70s Oh my gosh.

Depends on the version.

It's the 70s.

Game.

We're going with Kubrick.

Because that's 90s.

Canon 1/2 the movies.

Technically if they're going based on that age then that would be why they DH them to this point if it lines up.

Yeah, I don't know if it's going to play into a larger cinematic universe or whatever.

I've already referenced the stuff with the box and Doctor Sleeps.

I feel like they kind of want to connect it to the movies that have already been established.

The only thing that's unfortunate is that as of right now, Season 2 has not been greenlit.

Of welcome to dairy, correct?

If the theory that they're going backwards is correct, and that doesn't really.

Matter.

They have confirmed that like the writers did want to go backwards, that like each season would be its own encapsulated storyline, which is why there's these scenes here where it's like all in black and white with Ingrid is like supposed to kind of be like, oh, because maybe we would go back to this would be that's the time before that.

Right, the 1935.

Yeah, the gang massacre.

Event I don't know because it hasn't been green light yet because the reviews have been like semi mixed about this which I don't really get but.

Really.

Has it absolutely seen positive stuff?

I've.

Seen really positive stuff but I don't know like ratings wise if it's done as well as they would hope that it would.

But to be fair, it's on HBO and streaming and like it just takes longer I think for them to.

Get last I heard if it was correct was that it actually broke HBO streaming records for like the last five years.

Did it really?

Outside of Game of Thrones.

Oh OK, I was going to say broke Game of Thrones, that's crazy.

But that makes way more sense to say outside of Game of Thrones.

A lot of stuff broke last night and into today, but all of it focusing on this Ingrid Kirsch scene.

Really.

But they confirmed maybe a week or two ago that the plan was to go backwards.

But anyway, OK, it's weird that it's not greenlit, that's all I'm saying.

HBO is always kind of finicky with that.

Stuff a little bit weird series, yeah.

Obviously they spent a lot of money on this too, so they'd have to recoup a lot.

That's literally what I was about to say.

To make it worth a while because they brought in Bill Skarsgard.

Probably.

He's not a cheap actor at this point, he's really made a name for himself so.

It's the whole dynasty, the Skarsgard dynasty.

Paying for the Skarsgard name.

It's this guy.

It's like the Trump Hotel, the Skarsgard name you're.

Playing, you're paying for the brand, OK?

Georgie.

Sorry, the black spot Halloran and will start the black spot as a club in town.

I don't think it's edge of town.

If it is, it's not like this far out.

It's meant to be the boonies.

More of like an actual club.

It's.

Not literally right outside the base.

And what happens is that a fire starts, people are locked inside of it, and then they're pressing up against the door so nobody can get out.

Now Dick is outside of the club with Will.

I'm pretty sure Dick is using his shine to try to help people.

And it works for a little bit.

But like I said, then the people Stampede essentially up against the door.

And so then all they can hear is all these people dying and screaming inside.

It's got to be hell on Dick.

Yeah, you can only imagine because he can then see everything.

So anyway, all this extra stuff with like Hank and the kids being there, it's not in the book.

None of this is right.

We do see images of that in the preview, I think for the next episode.

I mean it makes sense because of the black spot is literally the name of the club.

Right, I think it would just be the event similar in name only.

It was military, and I forgot to mention it's burned down by a white supremacist group because we talked about this too.

The main legion of white decency.

And this is supposed to have happened in 1930 in the books.

The movies are aged 30 years, so there you go.

But it still doesn't make any sense because it's will and how, right?

Right, right, right.

Jason just said Air Force Coke is not in the book, no.

Dude who gives kids liquor?

That's so weird.

We have to talk about this now, because we talked about this before we came on, probably before we even hit the record button.

All Rachel could say was that's a bad man.

She's like pointing and yelling at the screen.

I'm like, wait, who's a bat?

Am I the bad man?

I did read excerpts from the book to Rob and Rachel off camera last week because in the Reddit R slash Stephen King this was mentioned is one of the most unnerving descriptions that King had written.

Exactly the Black Spot massacre.

Thing, yes, correct.

Because of how vivid.

How vivid.

Is let me mention this as a little bit of a port in the storm.

Do you remember the fella whose name we never got that was friends with Dick and they were going out and we knew Reggie, but we didn't know this other guy?

Yeah, OK, I got his name from IMDb.

At the risk of you laughing your face off, his name on IMDb is Loverboy.

Jax JA talks.

The captions did say Jax when he was speaking.

There you go.

Didn't mention Loverboy but there was so much going on it only clicked.

This whole series is so much going on.

I know, I know.

He's bad.

Jax is a bad, bad man.

A bad.

No.

No, Jax isn't the person who served.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

I thought that was the same guy because he we see him later at the table with schmooze and the girl.

It's definitely not the same guy.

OK, but it is the same guy later who's schmoozing on the girl.

I thought that's who you were talking about.

No, no.

Outside the club as the white supremacist that's who's referring to.

Yes, he's OK.

Never mind.

Oh, again, yes.

The bartender was flirting with it once.

Complete misunderstanding.

I see what you're saying.

That's who I thought you were talking.

I get it.

That girl, super cute.

Super young.

Super young.

She was cute.

She was cute.

OK, so Jax is outside with completely forgivable with this Pretty Little Betty.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, the other girl was there.

And it was like, OK, well, if you could have to compare the two, why didn't he hit on the other girl?

I'm at the black spot.

Bad, bad, man.

I also had a few Air Force cokes.

OK, Air Force coke also know how to play the drums.

Not as well as Rich, though.

Jeez, Louise.

Well, we were talking about the Air Force coke.

Yes.

And the kids talking about right now and the and the kids being served.

And then you.

We were technically talking about lover boy Jacks.

And then.

No.

No, I talked about lover boy Jacks first.

You were?

Yeah.

No, that's right.

You were.

We were talking about Air Force.

You're right.

You're right.

We were going back, which is why I got confused.

I understand completely.

Are we talking about Jackson, his lady lovely lady outside?

Or are we talking about as a break so that Bridget could start reading about how we.

Don't have to.

I mean, we can save it for next week.

That's fine, yeah.

Okay, since we're in the black spot.

Rich kisses his hand and it touches the face of a particular person hanging on the wall.

Sarah Vaughn Yeah, 1924 to 1990.

Often called sassy, quote UN quote, or the divine one, quote UN quote.

Influential American jazz singer and pianist renowned for exceptional vocal range, technical control and improvisational skills.

Considered one of the greatest voices of the 20th century, she helped popularize jazz singing and influenced generations of vocalists.

All that sort of bebop scat sort of situation that's going on, She's the godfather of that.

Did you guys watch Sinners?

Yeah, you did right.

Yes, I did.

OK, did the girl singer in the band at the Black Spot not look like Mary?

A bit, yeah.

From sinners.

That's like what I thought of when she jumped up there.

All of a sudden I was like, who is that?

Is she?

A vampire.

We saw two singers tonight.

Yeah, I saw a few.

The white girl.

Oh, OK.

Oh, OK.

If you haven't seen centers, I highly recommend.

Strongly.

Recommend really good, you would really like it because it's got a lot of Irish music and Rachel, it's really good I.

Believe okay, good recommend then.

Michael B Jordan.

And Hailee Steinfeld.

Yeah.

I wanted to ask ask you guys a question.

I think I already know the answer, but I just wanted your take on it.

We know Dick's having a rough time right now.

He's seeing things he doesn't want to be seeing.

We see this when he walks into the black spot early on coming in and he's looking for a drink and you can see it on his face.

He's looking around and he can see dead people everywhere.

But then he stops and he's standing in a in a puddle of water and he's like, oh, the ice box is melting and the guys don't look at him like he's crazy.

Do you think?

I think the water was really there, Yeah.

I thought he pissed himself at first.

No, I thought the water was there.

I felt like it snapped him out of it.

I think that at first he was like, Oh, my visions are getting.

Literal.

Like pretty bad.

And then I think he was like, oh, wait.

Like, no, that's like it's actually this is reality.

I like it actually works either way for me by the way.

Because you'll notice there was a reaction change at first.

He's like really out of it.

There's like kind of this weird being sound playing in the background.

You're not seeing anything he's seeing, which I actually really love.

Like, thank you for not showing everything because my imagination is going to be way worse than anything that you could show me.

And then all of a sudden he looks down.

It's like the ambient sound is gone.

The vision clears up.

Yeah, it's almost like he snaps out of it.

That was what I gathered from that.

I have no idea if that's accurate.

What I.

No, I, I kind of took the same thing away.

I was like, that water's real, right?

I mean, I like Rob's theory that he peed himself and then.

That's what I find.

I was like, he looked like he was frightened and he looked down and then he snapped out of it, 'cause he's like, oh SI pissed myself.

And then he goes to the ice box is leaked and then he walks.

Clean that.

Up I'm going to jump straight to piss.

I was just like, he's just in a sewer.

Maybe a pocket.

He moved a certain way and water just went down his leg.

I mean I don't know again, he's seeing things and like, oh, I'm drowning again.

Oh, it's a bathtub that was in anyway.

Well, and a lot of his visions have been involving water too, so I could see how the water could go either way.

And even still, there was one transition that actually on the heels of this.

Well, let me start by this.

There's a bookend here because Hanlon is disrespected by Masters.

I don't remember if this is the first episode or the second episode.

I think it was the second episode.

First episode right off the jump.

It's like one of the first scenes.

It happens again with Halloran.

He doesn't care at all.

He tells him to get out basically.

I just thought that was an interesting sort of weird reverse bookend sort of situation that's completely different though.

Understandable.

Going through trauma, Masters was just a Dick.

No absolutely.

I'm just saying it's kind of a reverse book end because the same thing happens under different circumstances.

Different people are saying it and Leroys reaction to it is completely different too.

Correct.

He was more calculated and cool with Masters but not at all cool with Halloran.

Which again, it pairs very well with the earlier scene where Charlotte's like, remember how calculating and cool Hanlon was with Masters when he was trying to discover who it was?

Yes, he was more professional, but I feel like he was more sympathetic with Dick.

He understands he's going through crap.

He wants him to do the right thing.

He knows he's going through some trauma right now.

I don't think he feels that.

I think you're projecting 100%.

I don't think he feels anything for for Halloran.

It's the same way he's acting towards Will right now.

Maybe it's unconscious, maybe he's blaming it on the trauma of losing Polly.

It kind of goes to what Halloran said when he rooted around Hamlin's mind.

He's constantly calculating.

He's trying to figure out the best way forward.

It goes to what he says about the Korean War.

We didn't go far enough, things like that to kind of see things through.

He he'll see things through to a fault, and I feel like that's happening here, too.

He just can't get out of his own way enough to really see the damage that barreling through.

He's going to 'cause he doesn't care about what's happening.

Halloran.

But we talked about this at the beginning.

Dave, if he doesn't follow through on this, he views it as everyone who died, died for no reason, right?

Including his best, of course.

One was saying it's right.

I'm just saying like, you have to understand where he's at.

I don't necessarily think he's wrong.

Halloran is shutting down when he really needs to be stepping up now.

I can also understand Halloran's perspective because he is seeing some really messed up stuff that he can't really explain to anybody else and he has no guide any longer to help him because his grandmother's gone.

He hasn't even seen her since the last time he saw in the woods and the incident in.

The box open.

Yeah, and we're forgetting about one thing completely, though, and that's just because you can't feel fear doesn't mean everybody else can't.

That is definitely an additional factor.

Of course he can't see the forest for the trees because if he can't see his own fear, how can he recognize in somebody else?

The deck is stacked with this fella.

I do feel bad that he can't see that what he's doing.

Well, I don't call it now.

He doesn't leave dairy.

I feel that way, yeah.

Because he has to see it through to the end, to the very end.

So I want to go back to Dick because it's a transition where it feels like he's still in the sewers basically.

Like he never left.

And I forget exactly where this happens.

And I thought it was super, super cool.

Are you talking about like when the sound is muffled and he's sort of like dreamy?

Because that's towards the end when he goes back to the black spot the second time and he's walking in and everybody's partying, but everything just sort of muffled and they're like saying hi to him, but he's just sort of not there.

I could see that being the effects of the sewer, but to me it almost felt like that's him now trying to drown out everything that's around him with alcohol.

It's like the muffling of everything because he's trying to be as drunk as possible to avoid seeing all the stuff that is open to him now.

It's actually right before Hamlin comes in to talk to him.

So transitions to Dick drinking?

I only wrote Dick.

I was trying to look for Halloween Transitions to Dick drinking which implies he's still in the sewers part because he everything is like super swimmy and weird.

And then when Hanlon leaves it's exactly as Halloran said to him.

Once I acknowledge the voices, he'll start hearing them and he can't not hear them anymore.

And true to form, every time we see Dick at the start of every scene where we see Dick, he's hearing voices and it gets worse every time.

Kind of like the title music.

And the last time, it starts with all the voices in the chuckling kids, like in the background.

And it does this really long crossfade into what's happening in reality, where finally he can hear the people that are talking to him.

This is really unrelated, but have any of you watched the show Medium with Patricia Arquette?

I know what you're talking about, but no, I haven't heard of it, but I don't think I've watched it.

She's just like a mom who happens to be a medium anyway.

She tries to treat it with alcoholism.

Her brother, too, becomes like a raging alcoholic because they had, like, a really hard time ignoring what's happening around them.

And, yeah, if you feed into it, if they know that you could hear them, suddenly it becomes amplified.

Then they want your help, and they, like, want to tell you things, and they want to talk to you.

And you're like, I'm just trying to, like, live my life.

I don't want to deal with this.

All right.

And even Jason says for a moment, I didn't think he was really there in the black spot.

I did love Halloween, describing what his grandma taught him, how to put them in the box.

Obviously we talked it's about last week with him showing it and anyways opening the box, but him actually describing the process to what he actually teaches Danny in The Shining.

And doctor sleep.

Yes, and the tiny little detail of Dick saying that his grandmother had only a fraction of the kind of power he has, and yet she could still teach him this trick, which I it's it's an interesting detail that kind of makes Richard Halloran later on quite amazing, telegraphing his thoughts across what a great distance to little Danny.

I want to talk a little bit about the effect and the power that this Shard is having over Lily.

OK.

Yeah, I thought maybe there'd be something to talk about.

It's like Gollum.

I thought that or she's holding a horcrux.

I mean, this thing is supposed to provide protection, so you want to believe it's something good, right?

But she has this scary possession over it and like won't even let will hold it.

I think like as Bridget said, it is her precious or just.

Her.

I think it may be both because remember this thing is a piece of what encased it when it came to Earth, so it might be imbued with dark energy of its own in order to keep him in prison.

So it might not be the nicest thing.

That's why Rose has it wrapped up and in a safe away.

I know it's not like they they don't carry it around with them.

The other pieces of the shards are buried underground.

This was locked.

Away.

It's here for emergencies only, like when giving it to Daniel.

We saw them, Dave.

They weren't huge pieces.

Right.

They're definitely bigger than the Shard, right?

Because it's not a Shard.

Yeah, but like, not by not much.

Yeah, by a lot.

Also, where's Taniel?

Yeah, we didn't get that answer.

Maybe he'll resurface as.

AI think, I think either he's dead or he'll show up again in some way or another.

But let's go back to the question though, because I actually kind of disagree.

I don't think it's imbued with anything.

I think psychologically it works better.

Think about it.

This girl has been seeing her pickle Octodad.

She's been sent to Juniper Hill Asylum a couple times already.

Nobody believes her, basically, including her own mother is not ready to visit her dad's grave.

There's a whole lot of things going on, and the second she gets a reprieve, this thing was the thing to give her one, right?

After all the terror Penny was about to bear down on her, and this thing repels it.

If I were her, I'd be sleeping with this thing.

I would not let anybody else touch it.

I may be in this one for all all for 1/3 musketeering this S, but if I were her, there'd be a selfish part of me going.

You guys aren't the ones being called crazy.

I am.

This thing will protect me from people calling.

And yet it still doesn't.

It doesn't right?

When she's in the classroom, if you see it glowing and everything, it's still not enough.

Which I think works way better than the chart itself causing her to lash out because obviously Ronnie and she are going at it too, right?

Everybody in town, everything's kind of like augury everything.

'S building up, yeah.

The emanations are causing everybody to kind of gear up.

The non corporeal emanations from Pennywise causing people to have friction with one another.

Except for Marge and Rich, apparently, Yeah.

I have a question, the hieroglyphs that are on the Shard, were those carved by the natives or did it have those on it already when they plucked it off of this piece of the star that you came in?

We saw them carving.

We did OK.

Yeah, I thought Daniel was telling.

The story they did, yeah.

So why do we think those specific lines glow and not the whole thing?

Maybe because it's carved into it.

Maybe.

And the rest of it is like a covering a.

Crust.

I was thinking shell.

Oh, crust would be like the.

Crust.

Yeah, like the rest of it is the crust still and that's like.

But that makes me think of pizza.

I like pizza Shard.

I think it's showing us that these carvings, in addition to the Shard itself, is offering protection.

Yeah.

Yeah, it looks super cool.

I know it really does.

Obviously the shards didn't do a whole lot of good because they kind of shattered when it hit Earth.

Now we need something a little stronger so they.

Well, and he got out of the middle of a bunch of them then, right?

But whatever.

I thought that too, like because like, wouldn't that big weird thing just keep him in one spot if that were the case?

But.

Unless he like floated straight up right?

Because that's like the only one.

But then.

Couldn't he just do that out of dairy?

Yeah, Why doesn't he just do that right now?

I don't know.

Well, maybe it forms a Dome, the shards so he can go up all he wants, but.

Then wouldn't the initial thing just have a Dome?

Yeah.

It's like this.

It's like this big petrified glass.

Glass.

From.

Weird back story.

All this retcon stuff, they didn't think any of that, OK.

We found the whole I think in the end, really though, it doesn't really matter because let's say all of that's nonsense.

It's all an explanation to explain why he stays in this town or this area, right?

But I refer you to my first episode comments.

Maybe it's like this is the best place for me.

Bad things seem to come here, maybe because of me, but maybe that's why he stays.

But the Shard did stop him, sure, right in the middle of the sewer.

So maybe they're like, yeah, it keeps him here, but maybe, maybe he could just go around one of the pillars at any point in time.

You keep saying this, but I think you're wrong.

I mean, yeah, I think I'm wrong.

I told you, I admit that I'm wrong.

He did it again, but maybe.

Maybe it's more terrifying that he could leave at any time, actually, and that the fact that he stays is because his emanations have poisoned the generations who will be undoubtedly, because nobody dare.

Why did he act like such an idiot?

Well, the Shard wasn't near him.

All of a sudden, he was.

Like that's not to say that the Shard, if she wields it, can't hurt him right?

Or maybe even kill him.

He like moonwrapped like this.

What do?

You.

Think this is decades?

Said he was.

Michael said he looked scared, but I would argue he did not.

He looked.

Michael Jackson was born in 1962.

Pissed.

He just looked pissed and he was like, yeah.

Yeah, he was like, he's like scooby-doo was like Old Man Withers.

It wasn't for you pesky shards and he's still showing up harassing Lily at school even though.

He's presenting to.

I don't think he can actually touch her while she does it.

Because sure is he can.

Still appear during Scarer, yeah.

Yeah.

Well, listen, the fact that anything is possible here because it occurred to me that some of this stuff could be just.

That's why.

But maybe it's not all true.

They weren't there when they made-up the legend.

When the thing landed down, they made-up a story around that.

So would the being tell them the whole story?

Get a lot of this guy.

This is why you don't have any faith, my friend.

I don't, I don't believe in it.

I don't believe in hocus pocus.

I don't believe in mediums.

I don't believe in legends or hieroglyphs.

So if you went with spells and protection, I don't believe in any of that hocus pocus.

OK, I live in the real world.

Yeah, he believes people are naturally good.

Call me Papa.

This guy call me Papa fucking Guy.

That's right.

Yeah, I get it.

I would ask.

Me too.

I realize it.

Let's talk about Will's favorite movie being an alien invasion movie.

War of the Worlds, the teleplay gone Technicolor.

Basically one of the first, I think movies I've ever seen, actually, as a kid, too.

War of the Worlds, yeah, what a great movie to be introduced to cinema too right?

Signite your sci-fi in your brain.

I might sound really stupid right now, not the time.

Cruise One No.

No, no, obviously, obviously.

But I didn't mention Technicolor before this movie aired in theaters.

Wasn't it red over the radio waves like Orson Welles on the radio?

People freaked out and thought that it was an actual alien.

That's.

Actually, an old wives tale.

Well, no, I don't think it is.

It wasn't.

Yeah, I read that recently.

The way it sounds like it was like all these people.

It wasn't.

Was there backlash to IT?

People did get scared.

I mean, it wasn't mass hysteria or anything, but people were like calling the radio station in a panic, like, is this really happening?

People were believing it.

OK, it happened in 1938.

I was thinking a long time ago.

There were a few people that freaked out, but it was not widespread.

I think the way that we're told this story, it sounds like people heard it and like everyone.

Believed.

It it was like a handful of people that were like, what's that?

The man on the radio said there's aliens.

Like it wasn't, it's not, it's not the degree to which it was happening, but it's more fun to like kind of visualize this big uproar of of people being like, oh, this is happening, but no.

If you're hearing a story about a city that you're not near.

Yeah.

Yeah, then you might be like, what?

Oh my gosh, poor New York or whatever.

You were.

Someone calling Avengers?

I always wanted to go and no I can't.

A similar thing happened with Gilligan's Island, where people wrote into the television station to say that they shouldn't.

Come home.

Come home.

OK, but you have to understand that was like maybe like two people did that right?

Like there was like thousands adorable thousands of letters were written, 2 dummies were like why won't they let them go home?

One kid, basically.

Yeah, it's got to be at least a child in that.

One actual adult and one actual kid.

Oh.

Yeah.

Why won't they like crying as it as this kid writes it?

Why won't the allegedly?

Tears friends.

Go home.

Exactly.

Can't even read it so smudged with tears.

OK, there is a contrast here that I kind of like.

And you can argue one way or the other if Ingrid was grooming Lily or not, or Ingrid had set a whole bunch of things, dominoes in motion and all that stuff, which you don't have to read any of that.

Well, there's one detail that I kind of love is that when Ingrid tells Lily that she could see her dad, nobody in Derry ever really dies for a hot second.

Given the way she was arguing with Ronnie and everything and how we don't really know how this is going to shake out really, I kind of thought maybe she might have gone along on Ingrid's ride.

Because given the way she's very protective over the over the Shard itself and how it's the only thing that'll protect me that's wouldn't more protection be on the other side of Pennywise mean not the object of Pennywise is torture basically, but the other side of it meaning OK you'll get the benefits if you just submit all your friends who probably think you're crazy anyway.

It's not that she doesn't hesitate.

She just basically says my dad is dead and I know unlike you that my father is dead now.

OK no I definitely blame Ingrid for not being in touch with reality.

She did lose her dad at 8 years old basically, but after 62.

Did she lose him or did he just leave we?

Don't know yet.

That's what I wanted to get into as this was the gateway to that.

She describes that horrible day.

So I mean, whatever it was was traumatic, says her latest, right?

Whatever it was was traumatic for her.

I don't know.

Part of me was like, did Circus just leave?

And she like stayed for some reason.

Something about the way she said it.

I was like, dude, you just get left behind.

Like what happened?

Well, you could kind of tell that when she's sitting on the stoop.

I think that was the aftermath of whatever happened.

Well, she's sitting there all alone.

Well, maybe Bob Gray's a real creep.

I don't want to go there but.

And maybe she mythologizes it.

No, it's kind of interesting.

I think we have someone that would be kind of cool about Bob Gray.

Yeah, what if Bob Gray is like the John Wayne Gacy type?

Not entirely, but goes after kids.

Yeah.

And that's why Pennywise like, oh, that's.

Where my head was, yeah.

So yeah, I can.

Look like that guy.

See, OK, here's why I hate that, because I love clowns and this is just not helping the clown community.

No, it hasn't been all in the clown.

Community for 10.

I really don't.

I don't appreciate it.

I'm a little triggered by what you're just saying.

Wow, I.

Want to go a little harder but it seems like this is not being very well received.

OK, we have the clown community.

I step back.

Listen, clowns are all the rage right now in every horror aspect.

I just, you know, it's just doing so much damage to the community.

Clowns are terrifying.

Talking about everyone loves to dress as clowns for Halloween now.

They bring joy to people's lives.

They also bring murder.

Just.

That's not true.

That is very true.

What?

No, it literally isn't.

Actually it's.

One clown that we know of, yeah.

Being gacy ruin clowns for everybody.

Everyone.

Really good.

To be fair, to be fairly killed anyone as Pogo.

Thank you.

I was just going to say that.

See exactly the best.

Thank you so much for.

That it was just the job he liked to because it gave him a way to hide who he was that's.

I need to.

I need to create a community like restoring the good name of clowns everywhere.

I won't go that now because I told you my babysitter was a clown when I was a kid.

Rachel was too.

I just want to point that out so you know.

You work.

Turncoat.

My first job ever.

I was a clown.

Jason had asked if there was any lore about Bob Gray and how he died, and we don't really have much information about him because he's just kind of a name that's referenced.

I implore you to go to the Stephen King Reddit because there's actually a lot of really interesting.

Theories.

Series information, it's people who've read all the books, like many times are often it's Stephen King's books that they're talking about.

So there's a lot of like, interesting information that like, I wouldn't have because I haven't read all that many of his books, honestly.

Cross reference through leaps through other books.

Basically because they he the same characters reference like over and over again.

I heard that this clown from Derry Maine, right?

So Stephen King had two ideas, both extremely cool.

1 is that an ancient eldritch being from outside the universe lived and slept under town and fed off of it until the soul of the town is the soul of it.

The other is sometime in the late 18th century this clown called Bob Gray started terrorizing the town and his spirit lived on and still pops up capering around during moments of extreme violence.

He ended up doing both, but they don't fit perfectly clearly.

The best part?

Pennywise existed few 100 years before.

There are pictures in the house where he lived and his daughter who's a witch and all that, but it has been there for millions of years and is kind of of like a spider but not really.

But I love that.

But when people see their worst fears, it's a clown underneath, not a spider.

You see what I mean?

It's two ideas really.

And I personally think they would have been better AS2 separate books.

This is often Stephen King's problem.

This is the Stephen King fallacy.

It's a paradox.

What came first?

Yes.

He has trouble reining himself in when it comes to these like, really cerebral concepts.

We've seen it.

Maximum OverDrive.

I'm kidding, he has a hard time wrapping him up.

Too.

Yeah, he does.

Like, he gets really excited about these ideas, and then he's like, yeah, yeah, I'm going to write a book about this and we'll write a book.

And he starts writing a book, and then all of a sudden it's like, OK.

Finishing.

This book.

OK, let's take this to maximum OverDrive and throw it off the Cliff.

It's like, where are you going?

And I love this analogy that this person wrote.

He just took two things to try to slap it together and it didn't work.

Hard disagree.

I like it.

The mystery is the best.

Part yeah, because you can never fully wrap your brain around it.

But neither did Stephen King, I think.

It's creepy enough as it is.

Like I said, that's kind of his whole thing because so many of his stories end up having really similar elements because I think he gets really excited about an idea and then maybe gets like a little bit hyper focused on it.

This is going to be really scary.

And so then you.

Wait till they get a load of this.

It's kind of.

It's a.

Clown.

That's a spider.

That's really a clown.

That's also a spider, and it's a mortal enemy from a.

Mortal enemy, get this, a turtle.

Turtle.

Boom, nailed it.

According to who?

Some Native Americans with their hieroglyphs?

Excuse me?

Don't believe it.

Oh no, that's in the book.

Dave, I'm kidding.

I'm just.

The.

Turtles in the book.

Yeah, the turtles are a large portion of the book.

Yeah, this turtle.

He doubled down on turtle.

I want to go back to Bob Gray for a hot SEC though.

I proffer a theory on this and that is that he does leave his daughter behind.

And that's what's so crazy is that that act of neglect allows Pennywise to come and be like I'm your Papa, right?

And then?

I don't know.

He does, in effect.

Become like a mob that comes and is like you've taken or did something to our kids, get out of here.

And then he like, runs off and leaves his daughter behind in the hubbub.

Or he gets killed and then it wakes up and then he becomes.

Anyways, right, that's kind of what?

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of wouldn't it be something if the whole thing that spins off this idea of a scary clown is perfectly in a sense, they actually will go into this I think in the next episode because I remember seeing like a teaser of Pennywise actually in full Virgalia that we saw in this episode.

I don't know if it's this next episode or the one after, but we will get to see Bob Gray as Pennywise basically.

So everything I'm about to say will absolutely 100% be refuted, but I love the idea of neglect being the primer for Ingrid to be the cause of all this damage.

Basically, it's just this one act of neglect that causes his tailspin.

And then forevermore she idealizes this version of her father that is actually the IT Pennywise, in that she is the one fueling the evil that is the focal point of this clown character from Evermore.

Because now see the stigma that clowns have.

All because of Ingrid basically.

Periwinkle.

Who doesn't exist in real life.

She really thinks it's her dad because he told her that he is, which is also why he didn't kill her.

He's like, oh, you could, like, help me.

Unwittingly, she does know, but she's doing it for the wrong reasons.

She's trying to free her dad.

She thinks she's doing a good thing.

Right.

Here's the other thing.

I thought about this for a SEC because we did say that Pennywise is a creature.

He's not a being.

He's adapting.

He's trying to figure out the best way to get the most amount of food.

And he's like, oh, if I be this or do that.

But I think there's an operating premise where Ingrid.

Yeah, she was afraid of Pennywise, but when he thought, oh, maybe she could bring more treats, Pennywise becomes her father.

And because she has feelings of love, that makes her the most disgusting meal and forevermore she will have feelings of love towards this It basically.

So of course he doesn't go after her.

It's like painting a target.

Basically anything that he becomes at this point, she'll be like, I love you, Papa.

I know it's really you.

The dark shadow she talks about, right?

She's recognized that he can become other things.

She fully embraces it.

Oh, but like, at the end of it, he becomes other things.

Like a spider, perhaps.

Not a turtle.

We've established that.

No, turtle's the turtle's the enemy, his enemy, right?

It's natural enemy.

But like, oh, he turned into a shadow.

Get crazy and we'd see the turtle.

I think it will not suit the series.

Just like another reference.

There is another Hank in this series that I think I need a Fact Check on this because I extensively dug around it to try to find out if what I was seeing was correct.

The other Hank in this series is the actual mayor of dairy, because Clint mentions the deputy mayor.

Just Ishkandem, right?

Yeah, specifically the deputy.

I told him to pack his things basically, right.

The other Hank is the actual mayor, and he was called Naked Hank.

The reason why I don't think they brought him into this series is because there's already another Hank Grogan, and that would be very confusing.

Yes, it would be.

I thought they phrased it so interesting.

Why?

Obviously, the deputy mayor.

Why not the mayor, Ishcanton?

So something had happened prior to the events of the series involving Naked Hank.

The mayor, He was basically driven out of office, essentially.

And you can only imagine what Naked Hank did.

And it did involve kids, apparently.

Yeah.

They figured they didn't want to bring that in because that would make things a little bit more complicated.

And maybe the association with that Hank, Mayor Hank.

I guess all Hanks are alike.

Oh, why didn't one of the Bowers call their kid Henry?

Also, who knows?

They just get a bad rap.

These Hanks.

The trick shot into the sewer with richest flyer.

That was cool.

Oh, that's what transitioned to Dick drinking the flyer, which, OK, that's how I got the impression.

Oh, maybe Dicky's still in the sewers.

Right.

Because it transitioned so well from that flyer going to the drain.

Oh, sure.

Yeah, sorry.

That completes that thought.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Until Lily tells Ingrid.

Yeah, my daddy's dead, you idiot, Which I loved.

It really redeemed Lily because until that point, there's a pattern.

The reason why I say that Ingrid was the one to orchestrate so many things because it had to be is because up until that point, Lily does not look good because it looks like Lily or Lilies influence influences a lot of things down the line.

Lily's the one to say for them to go to the theater and Lily with the Shard, Lily yelling back, Lily looks crazy basically in front of everybody.

And for a while you kind of also sort of think that Lily is going crazy or she always was crazy because maybe some of the things that she's seeing is coming from her.

I had that thought in the back of my mind as the series progresses, like, oh, what if she is a little nutty and she is seeing things?

Sure.

So up until that point, that's what I thought.

But when she says, I know that my dad is dead, he's not coming back, it kind of all fell into place that, oh, Ingrid is grooming this chick to either or maybe take her place, but also to be the catalyst to get more kids on the side, on side basically.

So that Penny, she even implies, like, what about what about my friends?

Well, it's not in the cards for them.

They're not on this train that I'm on and you're on.

Don't touch that dial.

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Well the only thing I have to say is Rachel made an audible noise when the scene at the Falcon opens up.

A hand being shoved down the pickled eggs, I.

Did Oh dude, they're.

Super gross.

Made me think of Lily's dad.

Yeah, I made you think of that too, actually.

I did, actually.

Yeah.

Well, there's eyeballs in there, too.

Lily's daddy.

Lily.

Papa.

OK, Well, I think that's really it.

And if there isn't and you have something to say that we missed, we probably do.

You should tell us in the comments or in your reviews.

You already heard the call to action.

And I I guess I'll say thanks for tuning in, everybody.

Right before we started recording, I said to.

To Bob.

To Bob Lucchesi.

Bob Gray.

Lucchesi.

No, no, I refuse to be called Bob.

No.

Babo.

Babe.

I'll stop coming on the show.

And that's when Dave knew he effed up.

The more it bothers you, the more we'll do it.

It was one of those things my mother, when she named me, she was like, I just don't want anyone to ever call him Babo like them.

Why did you name me Robert?

The certificate says Roberto.

So Roberto, it's like his daddy's Alberto Papa, they get it.

You know, until I was about seven, I thought my name was Robbie because that's why my mom always called me.

And then I saw my birth certificate.

I said, who's Robert?

Who's the hell, Robert?

Wow, whose damn white baby is this?

Oh wait, at the end of this are you going to sing Yentl?

But you'll sing it with the Pennywise voice.

Neighbor or scooby-doo, it's your Papa.

Why are you?

Doing Tim Allen, actually.

Tim Allen, the dancing club.

So anyway, like I was saying to not Bobbert that.

Bobbert's fine.

Actually.

That's how my wife calls me.

I thought the episode's apex in the last episode and then this episode out does it and we know the next episode is going to be, well, hopefully crazy unless they do the thing where they don't show us what happens at the black spot it's going.

To switch over to Taniel, switch to Taniel, switch to.

Taniel yeah, I was thinking going back to 19 O 8 to where we last saw Pennywise or right before we saw an abandoned periwinkle.

We're going to see everything except what happens at Black Spot in the next, and then the last episode will be The Augury.

Yep, Yep, big jerks.

Augury so.

You want to keep wanting to call it the black augury, but it's not.

It's called the Augury.

I think we're going to see conflict at the black spot, but it's not going to be the big event until like right before the episode ends.

Well, and then the next episode, I don't want to see that across many episodes anyway.

I'm just kidding.

I don't know.

But hey, that's kind of cool.

I like that every episode is more ratchety than the ratchety ratchets up the last one so close.

So I hope you feel the same way.

And if you do, I well tell us.

And if you don't, actually, I would really like to know.

And thank you, J Doll for attending the chat.

I've been your host David Cameo, and I was joined by me, Cosmo 09.

Bridget, you can find me at youtube.com, slash at Punky Brewsters, PUNK by BRUISEETER.

And I've been Rob Lucasie at Rob Stuff and things.

You find me on TikTok and YouTube as well.

I I hope at some point a commenter calls you Babbie Babbert, Robbie Rabbert.

Oh, David, stop.

It don't be my wife, Babbie Graham.

OK, so like Babbie and I say to you audience, have a good night and don't call Rob.

See, I thought.

You were gonna do it, PP, Can you hear me?

I was a young boy and.

It's going to be the outro music now ish.

But like the recorder version, the.

Mean version take.

Care, everybody, we'll see you good night.

Bye bye.

Thank you so very much for making it to the end of yet another episode of Squawking Dead.

This one it.

Welcome to Dairy's sixth episode of its inaugural season, titled In the Name of the Father.

We sincerely appreciate the fact that you choose to spend your time listening to us.

Your time is very valuable.

There's so many things attempting to grab your attention and yet you still come back and you're here listening to the outro.

And as well you should, because there are a couple of post production notes that I'd like to lay down on you.

That sounded really weird, but we shall March on.

The woman who was singing at the Black spot, the only white woman that the ladies pointed out, did look a lot like Haley Steinfeld from Sinners and Other Things, but in fact it was not her.

The woman who sang is named Laura Onglade who really sang those songs.

She is apparently a very accomplished singer-songwriter.

She's even been on a couple of shows actually too, showcasing her singing talent.

Second thing is the music that you're listening to right now in the outro happens to be exactly as I described.

I grabbed a version of My Chemical Romances the Black Parade played on a recorder from a YouTube account called youtube.com slash at SHITYFLUTE.

That's exactly as it sounds.

I would recommend you head on over there, subscribe to their content because they haven't updated it in about two years and I think it deserves a little bit of love.

It is hilarious, and I knew somebody out there would have done it.

There's not a third thing.

But I am really, really happy that you're here, and I hope that you 2 may someday become a member supporting this podcast.

And if you're not even ready for that, a tip is most welcome.

Anything will do.

When you do, you'll be able to join our Discord forever and stay there.

When you join a membership, you get more access to our Discord, plus so many other cool perks, whether it's in the coffee shop, whether it's in Discord, whether it's, well, just read the description on either Kofi or Patreon.

And one of those perks happens to be shoutouts at the end of every episode.

Like our Whispers members, we have no survivors members.

That's our elite platinum producer tier, whose distinction is the ability to join us in development calls and on our core channel on our Discord.

It's a venerable position.

You'd have a lot of private conversations with us should you choose.

But in our Whispers tier, we have, of course, Rob Luke Casey, who joined us on this episode.

And you, too, can join us when you join the Whispers tier.

You can reach him on TikTok at Rob's stuff under score N as in Nancy under score.

Thanks, THANGS.

Of course, Kim dot Rowley, the number one on Facebook.

Kim Rowley, what a trooper that one is.

I hope she got her sweater OK.

She took advantage of a very cool sign on perk that entitled her to a hoodie, and she happened to have chosen The Walking Dead World Beyond logo design on red, basically.

So there's very sort of Christmassy colored Tis the season and all that.

And Speaking of merch, you too can grab merch from either the new store on squawkingdead.com or our old store on T Public, both of which you can get to from on our website, squawkingdead.com.

Hit the main menu, hit the shop merch option, and you have the option of hitting either the new store or the old store.

I am actually planning on adding a third store, which is where you can get our stickers.

It's pretty much done, I just have to look into a couple of options to make sure that there are single stickers available, though that is a lot more expensive than buying in bulk.

We do have a store on Sticker Mule which you can visit if you head to stickermule.com/squawking Dad, I believe, or just Google's Squawking Dead and Sticker Mule and you'll probably get to it.

But at some point I will be linking that to the website and we'll be able to get some of the stickers that we give away for free when you meet us in the convention circuit.

Otherwise, I really hope you're enjoying this ride on it.

Welcome to dairy.

We are really getting a lot more attention from our Pluribus clips in the last few days alone.

It's now Sunday, December 7th, 2025 and it's really pleased me after relenting and writing a pretty upsetting post about how slow our growth has been.

But that's the weird thing.

I don't like to complain too much, but here we are.

And as soon as I do, I don't like that we started getting a little bit more attention.

But I'll take it because it's not just about me, it's about we.

And I hope you remember that we are squawking dead.