Campsite Media.

Hi.

My name is Jennifer Menez and I am an actress, supermodel, TV personality, addiction specialist, writer, and many other things.

I was born in California.

My family's from Buenostartis, Argentina.

My parents decided to come to America have an American child named me one of the most common names, Jennifer, and raised me back in Argentina.

When Jennifer Hejimenez stepped into Paul Fisher's office on Hollywood Boulevard, she was so young, and as you can tell from her list of accomplishments, she's had a lot of hard won success since that day.

She's had a career at the top of the modeling industry and the kind of life story that qualifies you to be an addiction specialist.

She's also been very famous on the cover of countless magazines.

She's been in movies with Tom Cruise and Johnny Depp like blow, oh No, don't make it, Don't make you.

So, Jennifer's got.

Quite a resume, and it all started very young.

I grew up in you know, in the late eighties nineties, like what little girl didn't want to be Miss ye say, miss you know missie for a model, an actress to something you know, And I was a lot.

I was a lot taller than the average kid in my age.

Jennifer began modeling in the early nineties.

I always say I just got the cabbage doll ripped out of my arms, you know, a year prior to that.

Within a short time, she's living in a moment that feels like pure fantasy.

She's getting mobbed by adoring classmates on the playground because she's on the cover of L magazine.

I come back to sign up to school, to register to start school, and at a public high school, my public high school where.

I went, and everyone came running with a magazine and I had no idea I was coming out that.

Day, and it was just like a surreal moment, like wait, what what.

At that moment, Jennifer feels like she's made it.

Now.

All she has to do is stand magazine covers, make sure to keep looking skinny once her body decides to grow boobs, keep the modeling checks coming, support her family, learn how to walk in high heels, maybe talk to a cute boy in school, someone enough confidence to get photographers and their assistants to stop groping her during shoots, decide whether to keep Paula's an agent, hide her drug habit, score more drugs, and deal with the trauma of sexual assaults.

But she'll have plenty of time for that.

She's only a teenager after all.

From iHeart Podcasts and Campsite Media, I'm Vanessa Grigoriantas and this is Model Wars Episode six.

So in this episode we're going to flip the tables a bit.

We've been talking so much about men and their control of the industry, but now we're going to give Jennifer the mic so that she can tell her story.

And it's a story of what success in the modeling industry really means.

And as I said last time, it is a bit darker than most of these kinds of stories, but at the same time, it's worth you hearing, and it may make you a little sick about the entire idea of this industry.

But maybe then you can root for Paul to get to that point too, because after Jennifer, he'll be well on his way to that point of view as well.

So here's Jennifer's story, beginning with her childhood in Argentina.

In Argentina, while the neighbors come over.

You call everyone aunt's uncles, even if they're not, you know, and you always have late night dinners.

And I remember in the backyard in my grandparents' house they have till this day, they have this long table backyard, and I remember the table being filled with food and there was.

So much food on the plate.

The visual I.

Remember seeing till this day is my parents and everyone grabbing.

Drinks and the Morley poured the morally drank that more.

They had fun.

I remember people having a great time.

My family was filled with lots of love, lots of parties.

I remember seeing people dancing with each other.

I remember just feeling the feeling of joy seeing my mom and dad dancing with each other, smiling at each other.

Even saying I love you to each other.

And I'm so glad I have that memory because in the end, that was not their story, but that was my story to share it, you know, and it's my memory to keep.

Jennifer says that even as a little kid, she knew she wanted to be a model, but in the United States, she just felt like she didn't fit in.

My parents realized when I was around six and a half years old, I'd have more opportunities in America than in Argentina.

So my parents sacrificed everything in their friends family's careers and we moved back to California.

And growing up in La, I do not look like it's a La girl at all.

And I didn't know English.

I had to learn English in school, and as children are very absorbent and very observed, we observe a lot.

And I remember seeing a lot of cliques in school and like there was no clique I could fit into to save my life.

And I remember this one day, in my broken, thick accent, I turned to like the two coolest girls in school and I wanted to be like that, I'm so bad, you know.

And we were in line, and I remember I looked over and I just turned to their direction, and I remember, in my broke, thick accent, broken English, I said to them that I had the secret that I wanted to tell them.

It was really important for me to tell them.

They looked at me so annoyed, like what I mean, please, Like what do you want to tell us?

Like?

And I was like it' said I have a twin sister.

In my thick, broken accent, you know, and I was like, she has blonde hair, blue eyes.

Her name's Natalie.

She lives in England because she's studying abroad.

And they were like, oh my god, why didn't you tell us about that.

They're like, come on, hang out, come hang out with us.

We want to be with you at a I don't have a twin sister, b I lied my way through childhood.

And see, I got accepted into a group of cool people.

You know, I did anything to fit in.

This girl who has to con her way into fitting in starts growing up and people start telling her parents that she should be a model, and soon she and her mom start interviewing agents.

One of them, of course, is Paul.

I was introduced to go see Paul Fisher at East West and I wore this bright ass like as bright as my scarf, blue like mc hammer pants and like just as baggy top.

It was awful and I matched my eyelash, my eyeshadow with the thing.

And now I'm thirteen, So I'm thirteen putting blue on.

Imagine the blue is like everywhere and I walk in and I had high heels.

On, like I comparently fuck, you know, like folding onto the walls.

And I'm coming in trying to look super hot, like I don't even know what hot is at thirteen, but I'm trying to act like I do.

And he walked I walked in, and.

I swear I thought I saw you work, Like I remember, he looked like mad you work back in.

The day, you know, And he.

Was like so cool, so swab like so mysterious looking.

I mean again, I'm thirteen.

He had this it factor at that time.

I didn't know, but it was like this coolness, you know.

And he looks at me and he's like, I go, Hi, I'm Jennifer Medics and he goes, Hi, go take off your eyeshadow, go get rid of all your makeup and then come back in here.

And I was like what.

So he made me take up all my makeup to come back and see him, and I went through the room.

I took all Megavov and he's like, now I see you.

And our relationship started like that.

It was instant and like, I don't know, we just connected.

Right after Jennifer met Paul, things were moving quickly.

She booked her first gig with a major fashion photographer.

Bruce webber Is, who I dedicate my I think for changing my life.

It happened to have been my brother's birthday that day, and my mom was very hesitant, but she had heard for so long you should get your daughter into model, and you should get your daughter into modeling.

And you know, I come Vinceo my mom that night to let me show up.

The next day.

And when I met him, he was like, he reminded me a Papa Smurf because he wears a scarf, and he was just a giant teddy bear to me.

And he was so sweet and.

So endearing, and I felt such a great connection with him.

And I remember when it was tied for me to stand and look front of the camera, it was like, for the first time in my life, I felt like I belonged.

You know, all those years of my life, I didn't believe like I ever fit in anywhere.

And there I am in front of the lens and I was home, you know, I was home.

It was It was a pretty like beautiful moment for me, you know.

And I remember Bruce was like, oh my god, I'm in love.

I need to have her.

I need to have her.

She's staying with me or keeping her.

And everything changed in that instant moment, you know, my life completely changed.

So Jennifer's been shot by the big photographer, Bruce Weber, and now she's getting lots of interest from magazines and Paul is managing her career.

Paul's tactic as an agent, he was very straightforward.

He did not sugarcoat anything, like when he was like, high, nice to meet you, go take your makeup off, like I mean, like you just can't.

Get as more matter of fact as that.

And he was just not filled with bullshit, excuse my language.

And you know, my mom and I we didn't know any better.

Again, like when we were first we met with all these agencies, and then like when we were going to go to Paris, all these agencies from Paris flew out to meet me and my mom and they'd drive out to West Covina and Sangerfali in La and come pick me up and my mom and then we go to La and have dinner.

And the Drava was back down and it was just a little like so real.

But because I had met so many people, they were just so extra sweet and extra promising and extra shore that they can guarantee.

All these things, and it kind of got.

Us extra scary, you know, like it just got scared because we weren't hearing that from Pom.

I just felt really safe for them.

It wasn't an over cell or an overkill, you know.

So young Jennifer felt that Paul was her protector, and she went on to find other people in the industry to also fill that role.

And I was able to relate with people, and there was there was somebody I remember when I first started mudeling in Naomi Campbell.

I mean Naomi and I.

Became really good friends, and like she really kind of helped.

She helped me.

Immensely, like understand like the teenage years, like no one was really teaching me.

Now I'm working.

Against like models that are in their twenties, like you know that are like renowned, huge, iconic supermodels, and you know I'm there, so I'm a threat to take their jobs away.

So they're going to treat me crappy and so like I was, you know, instead of.

Learning, I had to learn to fight for myself.

Like I had to learn to fight.

And I don't mean like fistfight, I mean like I had to learn to stand my ground because girls can beat you down, and especially when you're in that like realm of like you know, the top of the top girls.

And again I was just kind of like some of them, some of them models really shocked me.

The ones that like are the biggest iconic ones, You're like, you're not cool?

What that so sucks?

You know?

But then you have other ones that were like incredible and like, I'm so eternally grateful, like Elle mc spheerson, Naomi Linda Christy Turlington.

So many girls taught.

Me how to walk on in high heels, like on the runway, because I walked my first runway at as a Jane Alaiah.

When I did it and they were like, do you know how to walk in heels?

I was like, I stand in the heels for the photos and they're like, do you know how to walk in them?

Like not really.

I go on to walls because I.

Tell her about like seatball pulling on the walls, and all these girls taught me how to walk on the runway and so I come.

Out and I'm lazing at Paul my mom, and I'm like, I know, I'm.

Like as an Eliah like the sexiest of all sex like designers.

You know, everyone aspires to be like Asdina Liyah was back in the day, and I'm like totally turning into like a team, like hi, guys, like I'm on American pants and look at me kind of thing, and you know, they took it, and they were so the audience and the press were really kind with me.

You know, They're like, this innocent girl that you know, got it kind of brings a delight to him.

Jennifer was the face of innocence in a way, as most thirteen year old models would be, but she was growing up very quickly.

Jennifer followed Paul when he was fired by East West and started his own agency it but then after a couple of years with Paul, Jennifer and her mother made the decision to leave Paul for Elite, the agency that was founded by John Casablancis.

I knew John well and he was charming.

He was nice, he was magical, but he liked to hang out with a lot of little girls.

I think we mentioned earlier that John Pasablanciz had a relationship with Stephanie Seymour when she was sixteen, and she wasn't the only young woman he was with.

But thankfully, Jennifer was not one of those underaged girls.

Still a couple of years into modeling, her childhood felt like it was officially over.

The abnormal became the new normal for me, you know, and I was being looked at from the moment I started as an object.

Even in school, she felt like she stuck out.

Well, once I started realizing that some of it, it wasn't fun all the time, and like getting bashed when you're a teenager, it's not the funnest feeling, you know, like you're already getting bashed at school anyways.

Everyone is right, like we all get like made fun of somewhere.

I'm already the tall girl in school now, in the model in school, now in the model.

It's on you know, in magazines and TV shows and like on TV or commercials or music videos, and you know, I'm already I'm ready dealing with that end.

And then I have trauma growing up, you know, from my childhood, traumas with my family that I'm having to deal with because I have mental health in my family.

I had an addiction in my family, people suffering, and you know, I uh, it was you know, it was a lot.

And then I'm being bashed for modeling.

I mean, now I'm the provider of my family, and I'm taking care of my mom, and I'm clothing and feeding and taking care of my brother.

There's a lot of responsibilities that are coming to me.

And I was too afraid that when the dark things were happened to me, when my mom wouldn't be able to go with me, I was too afraid to come home and tell them what was going on because I knew that if they found out, they'd immediately remove.

Me from what was happening.

And then I felt very responsible because I would think who would take care of us?

Then, you know, again, I felt very responsible as a child at a.

Very young age.

And it wasn't that they made me feel responsible, was that I took that role on, you know, And that was just the way life happened.

And all of a sudden, I'm trying to run the show in my house and like I'm trying, you know, and it's like I'm a kid, you know, and I'm like trying, and then there's this chaos happening there, and then the chaos in the modeling world.

I mean, my head was tripping, you know, Like who am I like?

And they told me it was only as good as my next job cover campaign.

So I'm like, am I worth anything?

You know, Like it's all this stuff, but.

Yet I'm at the top of my game and I'm talking like there is a point where it's like Victoria's Secrets catalogs.

I'm working at Vogue at this and my voice still didn't matter, and you would have.

Thought that it would.

And with all these pressures, it became very hard for Jennifer to say no to anything.

I'm just going to let her talk about it for a little while.

That was like the sad part of it all, you know, because we're working with the best of the best.

You know, There's been so many times I've been promised, for.

Example, that like I shot news right, like it's an art for me.

It's not like I wasn't shooting it for play, but you know, I wasn't shooting it for Panheals.

But I remember, you know, being told i'd have like i'd be safe, I'd have females on set that I would have, you know, there wouldn't be any weird things going on or anything.

It was I show up and they'd be all males.

You know me, what am I going to tell them?

Like I don't want to do this, that I'd get fired, you know, that I'd get canned from my agency.

I mean, like they can you know.

That's the thing with modeling is that you are so afraid that you're.

Either going to be dropped or that like you know, weren't doing enough that you can't like you're not good enough, And every single moment and every casting you're being rejected.

It's the most rejected you know, industry possible that in Hollywood, you know, acting like every day it could be the best actor of the best model, but like if you're not what they're looking for, it's like, you know, that's not your fault, but you get you feel like it's your fault.

Right, So you know, you're like constantly trying to compare it to yourself, to outside things that you can never compare yourself to.

So it becomes a little very it becomes confusing, to.

Say the least.

But there is a lot of bad encounters with photographers.

You know, there was a lot of bad encounters.

I remember, you know, they promised me what I made equivalent to what would be a million dollars today.

In Tokyo.

I went on a huge.

Contract for a month and a half, and I was supposed to live with the agents, and I was supposed to have a chauffeur and the whole thing.

And I get there and there's no agent i'm living with.

I'm actually living in a male model's apartment building.

I turned my sweet sixteen there.

They throw me a big party.

And when I go to my birthday party for my sweet sixteen, I'm at some Japanese billionaire playboy's house.

There's all these beautiful artworks and all these old.

Men and they're all Japanese, and there's all these models and all the agents, and all the models said I was their best friend.

And I can't remember one of their names.

The agent said I was their favorite.

I wasn't.

I just there was their favorite because I made the money at that moment, that's all.

And I remember asking, like, what's this painting?

And they're like Picasso, and I'm like, what's Picasso?

Like I don't know anything.

I'm a kid again.

And these pictures of I have, I'm smiling and I'm blowing out my candle and I look.

So happy, and I'm so lonely.

All I was doing was calling my mom and my friends up and saying like there was like towards prom, some spring formal or something, and I remember going like, what do you guys wearing, like, Oh, I wish I was there, Like I wish I was at my school dance instead of being worked twenty two hours a day because I had a contract to fill.

So it was like, you know, gets your job done.

And it was just so surreal.

I mean, those are like the kind of moments.

That I had.

And you know there was other times.

My mom you know, I wouldn't go with me and I.

Was sexually assaulted.

You know, on sets I was sexually assaulted in different countries.

That it started, you know with the.

Little girl being this and that and like the oohing and the ayeing at a.

Really young age is a weird thing.

The you know, they come by you and they kind of just touch you and like it's a little like, oh, let's fix this bit.

You know, your boobs are being touched or your butt's being touched, and.

It kind of starts out like.

That, I mean in the midst of me being happy and go lucky, and it's like so innocent, like you know, in my eyes, I think it's all innocent.

I remember I was shooting with Jelle.

Bensimon and I was doing L another L I don't remember which one it was, and I was in this really beautiful dress and.

I was on my hands and knees.

They were doing a cover test and he was from like way in front of me, like like ten feet in front of me, and he's shooting from down up and we did some cover tests and we did that photograph.

Well, when the magazine came out, it's me and on all fours.

And I looked like, come fuck me.

I'm like at fourteen, you know, Like but that's it.

Was so innocent when we were on set, like there was do you know what I mean.

We were having these innocent moments, but it didn't look like that on paper, you know, when the photographs came out, and then, you.

Know, my mom at times couldn't come.

So I started experiencing a lot of bad things and dark things, and a lot of sexual assault, you know, and a lot of men thinking that it's okay, just go ahead, like touch the model.

You know.

I remember the agencies, not again.

Paul, but I remember my other agencies would say we have a model dinner, and especially when you're out of country, like you go and you go to the model dinner, so you feel like you're going to be safe and they're going to feed you, and you're excited about eating ooh.

Which is like a no go in modeling.

And I remember I would go to these things and it was like you had to wear the smallest, tightest little dress, your little black dress, and you know, show your boobs, and you know, always show your legs, and that's just how you were, you know, but that's not.

Who you are.

So there's a moment that sticks out to Jennifer from this period of her life.

She'd just gotten back from having her sixteenth birthday at a fancy mansion in Japan.

So I'm dealing with chaos at home.

I'm dealing with crazy agencies and modeling and traveling all over the.

World, and between trying to be a kid.

I like that boy at school, and I can't like them because I have to go away for a month and I want to go and stay the night at my girlfriend's house.

Or I would love to go to a football game, and I can't go to normal football games because that there's no normalcy for me anymore.

I remember the teachers were really hard on me in school.

I remember this one teacher, drama teacher of all teachers, and she was like, Oh, you think you're going to get away with everything because you have a pretty face.

And I just looked at her like she has no idea.

I just came back from Tokyo.

I've been sexually assaulted.

I'm paying for my family, like for us to survive.

And she's making fun of like me being pretty or ugly or something like go fuck yourself, lady.

So Jennifer is increasingly stressed, isolated, and abused, and she's learning to take comfort anywhere she can find.

When Jennifer talks about addiction, you can tell she spent a lot of years telling her story and recovery meetings, and a lot of it began for her early, especially the drinking, which she tied to her good childhood memories.

In that backyard in Argentina.

I took my first drink at twelve years old.

I wasn't modeling.

I took my first drink.

I was taking care of my little brother.

I looked over into my parents' dining room and they had a liquor cabinet.

I just wanted to feel like they did in Argentina, because I equate drinking the happy and it was warm and fuzzy, and it kind of imploded in my stomach and all of a sudden I felt like across of the jolly, green, giant wonder woman.

And she wrote drinking also helped her cope with professional pressures.

So I was five six when I got discovered modeling, and I'm five ten today.

So my body I was straight right, like straight leg I hadn't hit puberty, and puberty kicked in high gear.

And the curvier I got, the taller I got, the more people were like, oh, you can't be curvy, like you got to be skinnier, and like to this day, honestly, if I see a measuring tape, I fucking freak out.

I cringed, like I.

Can't take it because it just brought me so much stress and it created such a wirdworld of madness in my head throughout the years of modeling.

Every day, at.

The top of my game, your hair is either too short to blonde, too rent to brown, too too long to this, your eyebrows are this far apart.

I knew every imperfection, even like getting the jobs like she's great, can you lose like three more pounds.

So like someone's always like kind of beating.

Me down with words.

I can't change how I look.

I'm Latin, like I gap curves.

I'm a curvey girl, like you know, Boobs was like, don't even like you know, let's don't grow please don't grow Around close to eighteen years old, I tried cocaine for the first time, and I got to tell you, cocaine gave me a heartbeat like nothing else ever has.

But it brought me to my knees in the end.

But what alcohol and drugs were doing to me, it was telling me and making me believe that that was beautiful.

Told me that I was invincible, would never leave me.

It told me it was me, It's my best friend.

It told me, you know, I'd never be abandoned.

I told me I was smart.

It told me I was talented.

It told me I was you know, I was witty.

It told me all these things until it stopped telling me.

Then I was in quest for more.

The day that I did my first line, I was hooked.

And it also came in very very very handy because the waiftbook came in and.

The Cape Mosses of the world and all that.

And I was curvy, and I you know, I.

Had to be as skinny as possible.

I remember one day I was shooting.

I think it was a cattle.

I was shooting for Victoria Seekers.

I remember looking at the mirror in my fitting and I hadn't eaten five days like and by this point, I haven't slept in five days, like, I barely drink anything.

And I looked at the mirror and I saw this elephant man looking back at me.

It wasn't even me.

It was like this deformed shape thing looking at me.

And I was ANAREK six, skinny like two the nines cut.

Off like gorgeous, top of my game.

But I saw this monster, this big monster, you know, of my perception.

Despite all the drugs, Jennifer was able to keep her career going, and she even broke into Hollywood.

I wanted to get into acting.

I started studying, and I get my first movie role, and it's a movie called Blow with Johnny Depp.

And then I get Vanilla Skuy with Tom Cruise.

And then I get Charlie's Angels with Cameron Diaz, Threw Bary.

More, Lucy Lou, I get Sweetest thing with Karen Diaz, Jason Bateman, Selma.

Blair, Christina Apple Gay.

I'm doing all these things all of a sudden, I'm the new it girl in Hollywood on the cover of Latina back in Vogue, details like the it girl, like all this stuff, and I can't stay sober.

To save my life.

I was sober in the beginning to blow, not in the end.

And I'm trying to play it off like I'm hanging on.

You know, I've lost a lot of huge roles, a model of acting roles because I was high and I couldn't show up.

And I'm still the it girl, like I said, And my mom and my best friend come to me, and they say that I need to go get some help and I need to go to treatment.

And at this point I disconnected my jaw and a gaged up moment, my jaws hanging, noses, dripping a lot of everywhere in the house.

That went by kind of quickly.

Jennifer was saying she dislocated her job while she was high on cocaine.

Forget showering on end, that like would go weeks on end, I mean not doing it.

And I looked at them with my.

Job disconnected, blood dripping down, and I.

Said, treatments for losers, I am not going there, and they were like, we can't, why you die like this.

It didn't go.

Very well for them, but it stuck with me, and I ended up going to treatment a couple days later, and I went for five days under my terms, five days I needed to sleep and eat anyways, but I had a whole master plan, like I was gonna go back out there, but I was.

Going to use the way I was going to control it.

I was going to be under my terms, right, And those five days lasted nine and a half months.

While in rehab, Jennifer found out she was pregnant and.

I had to go through an R forty six afores miscarriage and I signed the PaperWorks away that I had to do that, and they told me not to connect to that feeling, and of course I connected.

I went through contractions and all that for like twelve hours, and it was a very brutal and painful thing, and I wasn't feeling good afterwards for like two weeks, and I kept begging my doctors at the treatment center so let me go.

And I kept asking to go to my doctor in Beverly Hills.

They finally let me go.

I found out I was like four and a half five months pregnant, and I had to go through an emergency DNC that day, and that doctor decided not to sedate me.

So I saw and felt everything.

I've got a few months under my belve sobriety, you know, and I'm laying.

On this cold table and I'm asking myself.

What am I doing on this table?

What did I do?

And like how did I get here?

And oh my, you know, like that what happened?

Moment?

I was like completely traumatized.

Two weeks later, I went back to see my Beverly Hills fancy doctor from Cedar Sinine, and he decided to check me with the wand and then he decided to sexually assault me with that WAND.

And I was.

So petrified, you know, that this man that I just entrusted with a moment something so devastating for me.

And I just remember going, Who's going to believe me?

It was just me and him.

I'm in treatment, I'm a drug addict.

Who's going to believe the drug addict?

I was able to start talking about it probably a few years later, you know, and like, because I need to break my I need to break the cycle.

I need to break the silence for.

Women, and I need it helps me mainly, you know, by talking about this, because men don't understand how bad women have it sometimes, you know, and we have it very rough.

We have to hold for hold house, be a mom, be a wife, be an employer, be a daughter, be a sister, be an aunt.

Cousin something.

We have many responsibilities, and we wear many hats.

Today we wear many masks.

But one of the greatest thing is I can sit here right now to you, speaking to you without a mask.

And that's an accomplishment for any of us, but maybe especially for a model.

So I know that was a heavy episode, and Jennifer knows it too.

It's so weird because I can talk so dark and a bit like I also can tell you it is so beautiful and magnificent.

And that seems to be true.

Modeling is beautiful and magnificent, and it can also be really dark.

What I heard from a lot of models when I was working on this podcast is that half of them ended up being okay through the experience of modeling, and half of them ended up just a mess.

It does make you wonder about an industry that would leave half of its most significant figures that battered.

At least for Jennifer, she turned her bad experiences around and she survived.

Next time on Model Wars, we're going to follow Paul as he becomes a bigger agent than ever and starts to work with even bigger supermodels.

He always wanted more.

He wanted more for people than they wanted for themselves.

And I walked into a nightclub one night and there's and his freaking goofball Mook's bodyguards and friends and motorcycle guys.

I would meet someone in Milan.

They go, what does your mom and dad think of modeling?

I go, I don't didn't ask my mom and dad what they thought.

I don't care.

Model Wars was a production of iHeart Podcasts and Campside Media.

Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Model Wars was executive produced and hosted by Vanessa Gregoriotis.

Our senior writer was Michael Kenyon Meyer.

Julia K.

S Levine was our producer and reporter.

Our senior producer was Lily Houston Smith, and our assistant editor was Emma Simonoff.

We had story and production help from Shoshi Shmulowitz, Ali Haney, and Blake Rook.

Our production manager was Ashley Warren and our studio recordist was Ewan Lei Tremuen.

Sound design, mix and engineering by Mark McCadam.

iHeart Podcasts Executive producers were Jennifer Bassett and Katrina Norbel.

The show was also executive produced by Rachel winter In.

Campside Media's Josh Dean, Adam Hoff, and Matt Share.

If you'd like to access behind the scenes content from Model Wars and Campside Media, please go to join campside dot com.

That's j O I n C A, M P s I d.

E dot com.

If you enjoyed Model Wars, please rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts.

Thanks so much for listening.