Hello world, welcome to my Sister Wives podcast.

I'm Chris.

And I'm Allie, we're long time friends who had no idea we were both watching the TLC trainwreck reality show Sister Wives.

Join us as we rewatch Sister Wives, maybe have a drink or two, and share what useless information and insights we can provide.

Listen to us two deadbeat losers judge the Brown family.

That's us all right.

See you on the.

Flip side.

What does the nanny do?

OK, so we're done.

Goodbye.

You shut it off.

Do not twist my words.

Do not.

Make me a victim, sweetie.

Just look at the mountain.

That's what you saw.

That day, just a knife in the kidneys over all these years and the sacrifices that I made to love you.

A sister wives special season 1 episode 8.

So Ali, we just watched the first, I guess, tell all slash reunion slash interview special, whatever we want to call it for sister wives, which is post the wedding and I guess kind of a season 1 wrap up a retrospective of all the things.

The interviewer.

I don't know that they introduced her.

I don't know who she is.

I her.

Name is Natalie Morales.

Oh, Natalie Morales tell you.

Oh, do you know her from other things?

No, I just brought it down.

Oh, OK, yes, and I do know the name.

So she must have had a career before and after or something.

But her, one of the things that she said at the very beginning was that the Browns were taking America by storm, which I thought was a very interesting quote.

I suppose at the time.

I mean, it must have been very kind of novel anew and like this thing, like it had to be.

I mean, I remember it was.

Yeah, it was taking America by storm and then changing the face of polygamy 1 episode at a time.

Yes.

And it was like, OK, I mean, fair enough, right?

This isn't something we had seen before, right?

So that's why we're here, because somehow they hooked us in.

Thanks, guys.

And this is where we are today.

So, yeah, it was interesting to think about it in that lens, that that's how unique it was when it first aired, you know, and kind of the recaps they gave about some of that stuff was, was, yeah.

We discussed it briefly in a previous episode where they talked about how the timing was important for them personally because of the Warren Jeffs things and like, the stuff coming out about polygamy and this, like, you know, the subset of the culture where they were, well, I don't know if we'd call the subset, but the child prides and the, like.

Welfare fraud.

Yeah, like exactly all of that.

So yeah.

I'm sure it's a very low percentage.

You were almost convincing with it.

Almost.

Almost, almost convincing.

The first thing that I noticed in this episode was how they had hair and makeup.

Oh, they had hair and makeup.

Janelle.

Janelle.

She had eyeliner on.

Her hair had been dead.

Her hair was great.

Her hair looked good, like she looked good.

And it was, I guess maybe I don't know the first time that I thought that you're not looked good.

But all around they all look TV ready.

They that people weren't just showing up at their house or their half home.

They literally were done up for TV and they looked good.

I mean, they were TV ready, but there were choices made, OK?

Yeah, there were still choices.

Oh, no.

What do you mean by that?

I mean that Meri looked like an old woman, her hair was so bad and her makeup was not flattering.

Like very minimal.

Compared to non existent almost yeah.

And her outfit looked super old, like she looked like the oldest wife, like that was the role she was cast for.

OK.

Janelle had a more youthful look to her.

There was the bright pinks and the, you know, the glow and the this and the hair and it was great.

Christine, I don't think I actually have like strong opinions about her appearance.

So it must have been just kind of like more normal.

She does 1/2 decent job herself sometimes, right?

So I didn't notice anything about that.

Robyn's hair was also awful.

OK.

It was like curled but had like almost football helmet shape like almost like cartoon character E volume to it Yeah it.

Looked like a wig to me in a sense.

Yeah, it was not good.

Her makeup was fine.

Her clothes were half like, not trying to make her look as young as she did, but she definitely looked better than like Meri did.

Like, I don't know, there were choices made.

Kody looked like he was just wearing some top, and I mean, I don't know what he would have done or whatever, but he was definitely in the center right.

So it's like on the couch on the love seat next to him.

To his right would be Meri, to his left was Christine.

And then Janelle and Robyn are seated above them between their shoulders, which I thought was an interesting setup because it did kind of almost give a visual indicator that the two wives that he's closer with were next to him, which is just not true.

But I don't know.

It seemed like a weird setup.

I don't know why they weren't just like on stools or something.

It seemed very like that.

The three in the front were crunched together, and then there's the two in the back.

It seemed weird to me.

Well, it also seemed like they struggled to figure out who should be talking and responding when.

Like there were moments of talking over each other, like, not intentionally, but they like, just would all go to answer the question.

And it was kind of a little bit of that.

There was even one time that I thought maybe they anticipated that, like, Janelle would be answering a question.

So like, Robyn's mic wasn't on or something.

And like, Robyn tried to speak and the audios were different.

Like it was just, yeah, I don't know how well put together and thought out that part of interviewing 5 people all at once in a general consensus was going to work out super great like that.

Yeah, it seemed like they were just in a large hotel room and they at one point they pan and show the crew, which are all like smashed into one side and then there's the five of them looking.

Yeah.

Like it wasn't well thought out.

And you're right, there were audio differentiations between them that were at sometimes distracting.

Like is it that someones mic pack wasn't working?

Is it that the mics, the booms were terrible?

Like, I have no idea, but it did sound disjointed at times for sure when they were talking about changing the face of polygamy.

One thing that I noted was that Kody said that there is a need for transparency, which is another reason that they were doing it, you know, aligned to that whole Warren Jeffs, blah, blah, blah.

I think that they default to this whole like coming out bit and the whole like transparency thing.

And and it's like, OK, I guess it's a good thing to say because I'm sure that's part of it.

That's why your show got picked up.

OK?

Yeah, we did, yeah.

But, you know, he didn't say so that he could never work for the rest of his life.

But whatever, you know, there's, there's that.

Kody also says that America is prejudice.

And he also makes reference to like people talking about him, like maybe this guy is just a patriarchal and he's a narcissist.

And it's like, Yep.

So this is what I loved.

I loved the fact that, like, there's at least some recognition that those things exist at this point in time.

He doesn't put himself in those buckets.

And I think he's doing a good job right now of masking that side of him.

I would actually say, right, Like, I don't see him in these early episodes in that same way.

I really don't.

I think he's oblivious and I think he's stupid, but I don't see those character traits in him.

I think that definitely changes though, right?

Because obviously that's who he is.

Yeah.

I mean.

Well, yes, and it's interesting that it starts with him pointing out that people are questioning that and like he just has no, like, no, of course not.

And like, obviously that's not it.

And it's like, OK, well, you are stating what will happen.

So, like, thank you for that, Kody Brown.

Everybody just thinks I'm so self obsessed and I'm not self obsessed, I'm just well trained.

Yeah, OK.

Bullshit.

See this is what I was saying.

Bullshit.

You were not well trained.

Puke, puke, puke.

They do a overview thing of the Mormon church talking about how today's church, the Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, kind of disavowed polygamy 100 plus years ago and that it's estimated that there's 35,000 polygamous families in the USI don't know where they're getting that number.

You know, it's not like they cited any sources during this interview, but I don't know how to feel about that number because I feel like 35,000 families is a lot.

I felt like it seems like a high number.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't know that I have a way to gauge whether it's possible or not.

I mean, some crazy shit's possible, as we know.

So maybe totally accurate.

But yes, my perception of that number was also that like, that's more than I would have thought for sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm not sure how they're getting that number, but yeah, Amen.

Again, it gets pride up that they don't go weird, we don't go weird, and then Christine talks about the fact that we also don't talk about this.

One thing that I found interesting was when Christine was talking, she is clearly well versed in the PR talking points of the AUB.

And one thing from the book becoming Sister Wives that they don't really talk about much in the show is how she was part of some sort of group being, you know, part of royalty, quote UN quote within the group.

Like her dad was the father of the founder of the whatever, blah, blah, blah.

She's been a part of panels and discussions and outreach groups and what not where they're defending the the religion and their lifestyle.

And I felt like when she was talking at the beginning of this episode, they were very much rehearsed bullet points.

Like she knew what to say and she was very like, this is the plastic spin that we're giving for what we're talking about.

And she's definitely done it before.

It was very natural for her.

It definitely stood out to me as a thing where I'm like, if I didn't know that about her, I probably would think she's just talking off the cuff.

But really, she is very well versed.

And in a lot of these conversations, it doesn't seem like Christine takes the lead in talking about things.

And with that, it definitely stood out to me.

Like she was like, I'm going to talk about how this is and blah, blah, blah.

But it was very manufactured.

I can see what you're saying, I think.

And it leads me to also think of moments like say current day compared to previous life of theirs, right?

Where I do think you're right back then what she was saying, like even when she was upset about things here in the beginning, and then we'll see how that transforms throughout the years, right?

But even when she was upset about things, she was never inherently upset about their lifestyle and what their lifestyle was meant to be and that things like that existed or that the church was what the church was like.

Those weren't ever her complaint.

It was when she felt like she as a human being wasn't getting the treatment that she should get from her husband, regardless of religion, right?

Like regardless of all of these other factors.

And so I, I think that if and when she complained about things, those were the things she was complaining about and trying to and feeling OK enough to be real about them, as opposed to I'm not going to volunteer my information first or whatever else.

Right.

Like it was almost like involuntary sometimes when things were shared because she just had such a physical reaction to it that she had to talk about it though, you know, like, I don't know.

Yeah.

That's interesting.

Meri when talking about things, one thing that stood out to me was when she said that this is the third time a new one has come along, and I thought her phrasing about a new one was an interesting choice of words.

It's one of those comments that someone makes where they didn't really hone in on it.

It wasn't like a big deal, but it's like a new one.

So I think that kind of gives a little insight into her mind about how these relationships have come about.

And even though she is rationally speaking, like, yeah, I signed up for it, I'm from this, I knew it, I advocated for it.

She's referring to these other people as the new one.

So, you know, maybe there is a tinge of Meri being the first wife, the best wife, the Queen wife, Somewhere, somewhere in her mind, I think that exists.

I think she wants it to exist, surely.

And I think that part of.

Oh, interesting twist.

I think that maybe part of the reason she kept facilitating the additional wives was that she hoped that would actually gain her additional appreciation from Kody.

Yes, for having done so.

Right.

Like, look what I delivered to you.

Now, clearly you should love me more.

Yeah, because I did that for you and I allowed you to do that.

And I look, I even met them and weaved them into our web like.

Yeah, that totally makes sense.

Yeah, getting more approval and love from him.

Quote UN quote Kody talking about the process of filming the show where first, they're living the moment.

They're actually going through it.

They're filming the thing they're going through whatever in life.

Second, they have their couch interviews about it, where they're discussing it and they're rehashing things and reliving things and going into it almost like the the Christine walking out moment.

And then third, to watch it then on TV, like the actual experience and then the reaction to it and then to relive it again.

And I thought that was an interesting way to frame it up and to tee it up because, because I've always felt like watching reality TV, there was 2 parts like going through it and then reliving it.

But it's like, no, they also have to talk about it between there.

So there's actually like a triple whammy.

Like I could see how that would be a lot like going through it, talking about it and rewatching it.

And then of course, like reactions from other people after it.

So it's like 4.

Like there's multiple steps to all of these scenarios, which is not something I've lived through.

I don't think I want to live through it.

That seems like a lot.

Yeah, I think that now, current day, we're super used to seeing reality shows and a very similar process to what's happening on the show right now.

But what we're not thinking is this was 15 years ago, right?

So we hadn't seen as many reality shows as we have.

We aren't as conditioned to what that is.

And so even I can imagine watching this for the first time, if that registered right, Like I don't remember if it did or not, but if it did, thinking about that fact that, Oh my gosh, Can you imagine that that's actually what they're doing right now?

Like they're bringing this lifestyle to the public.

That's such a big deal.

And then they're talking about it before they see any of it or maybe after they see it, but then rewatching it and then reliving it and then never dropping anything ever because it still comes up.

Yeah.

When you have to do shit like this every day, like, Oh my God, yeah.

I don't know.

I don't know.

They talked about, like, their concern for the kids and stuff like that.

I mean.

Janelle saying that they try to keep things normal for their 16 kids, as normal as it can be.

She didn't really elaborate too much on that, but I thought it was interesting that that was a standout from her at the intro, was that they're really trying to keep things normal for the kids.

And you know, you got to give props for that.

I don't know if they were successful in that, but whatever.

Well, and they kind of framed it at one point, like all of the kids absolutely love being on the show and think it's so great and think it's so wonderful.

And then all of the kids absolutely hate being on the show and think that it sucks and thinks that it's terrible.

Like they basically, which is like truly just every child in any experience.

So I'm not even like faulting them for that particular thing.

There's other pieces that are bigger conversations, but like, I think that's probably pretty accurate.

Sometimes they thought it was pretty cool they were doing that, and other times they wanted to be mad about something and they were like, you're making me do this and so I hate you.

Yeah, I can see it.

And the convoluted web of TLCS practices with having these families on shows signing contracts with the adults and the minors just being there.

If they don't have contracts with the minors, if they're not paying them, then they're not part of any union agreements.

They don't have to be obliged to have certain hours during the day for school.

They don't have to have trust funds set aside for themselves with the income from the show because they are contracted and they're minors.

It's really like the brown parents, and I'm assuming primarily Kody navigating and managing that.

And I'm assuming that all the wives are compensated at this.

You know, I was assuming they all have contracts and Kody, but I don't think any of the minors do.

I would assume not.

I'm sure not.

Yeah.

And that's where some of the stuff just gets messy, right?

Like, that gets messy to me.

And I think we've seen a lot of young celebrities get taken advantage of from their parents and things like that.

I don't know that I'm throwing all of the Brown family children into that bucket.

But like, we don't know.

Maybe they haven't gotten a single thing for any of their participation in this.

And if that's a reality, I think that's pretty shitty.

Like I think that I don't even know what that division would look like though.

Like I don't even know how that compensation works.

So it's it.

It's just so bizarre to think about the fact though, that children can spend their lives on television and then have to grow up and deal with the consequences of that.

And they had 0 control over any of it and like.

And we're potentially only benefited by the sense that maybe their parents could buy a better home.

Maybe their parents could more easily afford to buy them a used car or contribute to their Community College, state school education.

There's probably ways that the parents validate the income benefiting their family.

But as a talent, as a person whose formative lives are filmed and exploited for a show and having nothing to show for it.

Well, and like, who knows the actual consequences that they've had throughout life, right?

Like, Oh my God, we have no idea.

You know, shit, my kid is pissed if he sees an old Facebook memory of mine that I posted of when he was like 4.

You know, like I don't.

And that's just a photo on social media or a silly little video like, and I've even started like.

I've even started thinking differently about that just as he gets older a little bit.

Like, I'm not going to say I don't post things here and there, but like, I try to be sure I'm not going to embarrass it.

Like, I don't know.

I mean, it's just weird.

So I can't quite imagine it, the unpredictableness of what children could do on camera and then have to live with the rest of their lives.

Like, I don't know man.

Yes, I'm sure we will circle back to that topic as the kids get older.

And then we, you know, eventually with the show, the adult children, most of them participate very little, if not at all, because they probably were like, I never wanted this and I want to be a part of it and I don't want anything to do with.

It or if I'm going to be a part of it, you're going to pay me and I am going to have my own agreement.

And if you choose to not do that, then.

This is my.

Participation.

Yeah.

And Amen.

Good for them.

You know, I mean, the one time they can negotiate for themselves, they absolutely fucking should.

Yeah, they should.

100 there when they were talking about the kids, I thought there was this, oh, there was so cute.

I remember I said to you, I'm like Savannah is so cute.

Little Savannah.

There's just these cutaways that they show of her, and I don't know how old she is in these shots, but she is cute as a bug on a rug.

Like she just has these animated expressions.

But she's Janelle's daughter, so she has like that bloodline coming through on the face and it's just she's got this natural, unique look that's also very attractive.

And then she's young, so she's like joyful and silly and I don't know, I just think she is so damn cute.

There were some cute, I mean, yes, the whole kind of beginning part of the episode, of course is like explaining where we where we started and where we get to and all of the things and definitely some cute flashbacks of the kids and stuff.

It really did just kind of button it all up from where we started, big picture, and then moves into this wife and then this wife and then this wife and to where we are today, right?

So wild ride.

Well, the and so beyond the kid, the footage of the kids, they have these stills that they show of the parents, the adults, you know, intro outro to commercial breaks.

And there's a photo of Kody on this motorcycle with his like arm over the handlebars, like looking off into the future.

Like that's his single photo.

And it's disgusting because he also is looking like, I think he's wearing what he always wears like this business casual top, like on this motorcycle.

And it's like you have such a grandiose vision of yourself.

This looks, he looks like a clown.

It looks ridiculous.

I did not register that, but I hope I get to do.

I hope that I get to see in the future.

Maybe.

Maybe if I see it in the future I'll notice and maybe I won't.

Yeah, because I do try to avoid looking at him.

Well, this is it.

I'm not trying to like, burn Kody into anybody's brain.

God.

Before they moved in to each wife individually, Natalie had Kody up on like this rooftop.

I think like cut back and forth between sections of this interview throughout.

But one of the things she kind of referred to him and she goes, do you see yourself as this moon and everyone else is just rotating around?

Do you like, she paints like this picture of him literally being the center of the universe?

And of course, he is like, no, no, no, that is not it.

And then he uses some, he uses some sort of line at the end of that that like there's no cat chasing for him or something.

Did you hear this part?

I was like, what is he talking?

She went from referring to him as the center of their universe, and he was trying to differentiate between that.

And then all of a sudden he's not chasing cats.

Yeah, I feel like I don't remember what he said because it was one of those Kody moments for me where he started talking and I kind of faced it.

I kind of blocked it out.

I mean, I just, I'm like, what are you even saying?

I was.

Trying to connect the dots so hard and I just could not.

So that was yes, the lasting impression Kody Brown left with us before we get to dive into each wife individually.

And yes, I just couldn't be more grateful for everything he does for.

Us thank you for being you, Kody Brown.

Everyone loves that.

So like you were saying then in the episode, they jump into each individual wife like a little background, a little ketchup, blah, blah, blah, and some interview moments.

And of course they start with Meri because Meri's wife number one.

And yeah, they yes, they they tear up kind of as like a take charge woman.

I thought.

I feel like that's kind of outside of her being the tooth puller, the packing Nazi and the photo goddess.

They're teeing her up as this take charge woman like.

Now in mergers and acquisitions.

Oh yes, and mergers and acquisitions 100, she is, she gets it done.

She is whatever.

And you know, I feel like that makes sense based on the footage that they have or whatever.

And I think that actually is who she is.

Like I think she's just like even when they're packing and she's like, I'm just like, get it done and then we can take a nap later.

So she is like she's driven like that.

I don't know.

Oh 100%.

And I just love the little bullets they have her.

I don't know, for some reason the way other people describe her like sticks out to me because it's just never super flattering and gracious things, right?

It's never like she's so supportive.

And you know, I just couldn't have gotten through any of this without her.

Like at least currently we haven't heard any words like that.

So curious to see if any of those show up.

She referred, she said she was the one like her and Kody met each other and she was the one for him.

He was the one for her.

And then she goes, well, I was the one for now.

And that was like, OK, I mean, I get.

So she entered into it with that being the intention, right?

That that's how they were going to live this life.

So she kind of knew she was the one for now.

But I think really what she was saying was that she was the one and she wanted to be the one and she wanted to live this lifestyle, but she didn't think by inviting other people into this lifestyle that she would no longer feel like she was the one.

Yeah, yeah.

She said the words out loud like that's what she meant, but I don't think she understood that that's how she would feel.

It was interesting, but she was open about it.

You know?

I don't know.

Again, her hair was terrible and she had an old lady outfit.

Well, she divulges that her feelings change day by day regarding her insecurities.

Like some days she feels very confident, other days she doesn't.

And that, you know, that's that that feels real.

I don't know.

I really loved it there.

Was funny because they only made them rewatch, or at least what was shown on camera.

They made them rewatch just a couple of specific moments throughout the season, and one of the ones they made them rewatch was her and Kody's anniversary dinner.

And like, I, you know, again, I don't ever want to have to rewatch myself.

That sounds awful.

Oh, gross.

Like to sit in their seats and watch that as every single person on that couch, like I just the ick was around for sure.

Like, oh, we talk about an ick later on, I think maybe.

But anyway, yes, it was crazy.

Yes, she talks about how they were in a hard place back when Robyn was being courted and all of that.

Like she references that it made it more complex that Robyn was joining.

I think she even said like, I don't know, there was some sort of joke about Robyn joining in or whatever, but that she was in a hard place with Kody during that time.

So they were in a hard place.

And, and I'm not sure that it was so much emphasized earlier in the season as much as she did on that couch during this interview where it seemed to me like, no, we were in a bad place.

Like we were not in a good place.

I agree.

Well, and I think that's part of what was interesting with how the season started and they just jump into new wife coming in, yay, excited, whatever.

And you could tell there was unmasked things that like they weren't saying this stuff, you know, but there was definitely things that existed.

And so this is our first example of kind of put, I don't know if it's our first example, but it's a big example of something that you kind of know what's happening, but they haven't said it yet.

Well, this is it.

I assume that all of her trepidations, all of her things were about like Robyn joining the family and the emotions about that.

Not necessarily that their marriage was probably not in a good place across the board, which we dive into a little bit more.

She also says that she had done fertility treatments before.

I don't recall hearing this previously.

Do you?

Do we talk about that?

I did not recall that before either.

I did write that down like question mark, question mark.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't remember that at all.

No.

And I, I think there's these things sometimes that Meri says where I don't want to question her authenticity or whether she's lying or not.

But I'm also like, how is it that this hasn't come up before?

Because you've talked every episode.

Well, her fertility has come up many times, and it hasn't come up once yet that she's done fertility treatments.

And even in the way Kody brings it up when they're on their anniversary, it seems like it's a first time.

Like I don't the gift he was giving her.

Yeah, like why would you be giving her a gift if she's already done it multiple times?

Like it just doesn't something.

The math ain't math in there for me.

Now I am going to pinpoint to one specific fact.

She did not say she had done in vitro before.

True, she said, she had done fertility treatments.

Correct.

That could mean a plethora.

Eating a lot of celery.

Right.

And some salt.

Well.

That could be good fertility.

Well, you know, and based on their religion, I mean she that could be a fertility treatment to her like.

Right, I this is what I'm saying.

It could be many different examples of what an actual fertility treatment was.

I think that still Kody saying in vitro on the anniversary trip was a difference and a big offering.

And I think that maybe it is something that's frowned upon in their religion.

And so that is part of the reason why she hesitated and hasn't done it yet, if if that's the case.

But I guess.

That is a differentiator.

Fact checkers, you let us know.

Can't wait, can't wait.

Also throughout this like mix of back and forth conversation that is being had where Natalie is asking these questions and what have you, Kody tries to answer one of her questions.

And I can't exactly remember how she phrased it.

It was part of the challenges between the wives, right?

And how he navigates it.

And he basically said like he was just trying to relate their relationships to any average other American couple, right?

So our relationship is the same.

We might not communicate the best, but every other couple in America doesn't communicate the best.

Our relationships are the same.

We have the same struggles that any other couple has.

They just seem different because I have 4 wives instead of one.

But the challenges that we face in our relationships are the same as any other marriage out there.

And I think he has a point.

Like I think he's pretty.

It can't be completely.

True though because other marriages don't have other spouses like that, adds.

A complexity so he just gets to get four women mad at him and they're all mad at him for the same shit because that's how life works and he gets to disregard 4 women so it really is the same as any other marriage and.

The fair enough, Fair enough, yes.

I don't know.

I just thought it was funny.

I was like, there is a relatable aspect to it.

Like there is a piece in which the struggles that they have in their individual marriages are just like anybody else's.

What is different is that he has four of them and that's the difference.

And like their place during this anniversary time was one of those everyday, I don't want to say everyday, but common things were in a marriage you are in a low and you got to figure out how you're going to keep moving on if you're both committed to this thing.

And you're putting on a show for your friends and family too, man.

Like they're putting on a show for cameras.

You're putting on a show for whoever's around you.

Like, look at my life on social media, you know, like that's just what people do.

It's, it's the human reaction or whatever.

But.

And there's like a cute moment.

I thought it was a cute moment where Christine says that she tells Meri first about being pregnant when she's been pregnant before out of, you know, sensitivity and her feels for Meri's journey and Meri's, you know, lack of having children other than her one child.

And I thought it was sweet because it demonstrates how these women do give each other grace in their relationships and have bonds where they are sensitive to things like that.

I think it speaks to Christine's character and I think it speaks to their overall Ness that she would say.

I generally like to tell Meri first out of sensitivity.

I keep saying the word sensitivity, but it really strikes me as a very sensitive thing to come to your friend, to your sister, wife, to say, I want you to know that I'm giving birth or that I'm pregnant.

And Christine's not the only one.

We will actually witness it in the future where there is an effort made when someone is pregnant to go to marry and say hi.

I just want hi, hi.

I just want.

That was a bit much, but you know, like.

Hey, go ahead.

Yeah, to like give Meri the heads up out of all, like, you know, an empathy and a sympathy for her and, and a sensitivity to her situation.

And I thought that that was cool.

I like that Christine divulged that.

I did too.

And part of the way when she started to talk about that, she said, you know, I know that it sucks that Meri wasn't able to have more kids, but she said, I hope that she feels like our kids are her own and that that helps.

Like, I hope that she does recognize that you have all these kids and, you know, and they were all feeling very sentimental and like receiving that and definitely and everything she said was super sweet.

So I thought that was really nice.

And that yes, she just, it was like she didn't want Meri to hear it just randomly from somebody else and then go, oh, somebody else having another baby and I'm not, you know, like it was thoughtful and that was very nice.

And I thought that was that was really great.

I think shortly after part of that conversation, Natalie asks Meri something about if she really did ever consider leaving, because then they cut to a clip or two of Meri saying, sometimes I just wonder if it's even worth me staying here and should I just leave like that?

I guess was there at least two, maybe three of her sharing some sort of feeling about that on camera this season?

And what I think is funny is I don't actually remember huge specific dramatic moments of like that happening.

I mean, it did and we watched it and whatever, but I really think it was super brushed aside in the moment as it was said or something.

Like, I don't know, it was bizarre.

It was bizarre and she didn't really know how to answer it.

Yeah, it did seem to.

It reminded me of perhaps how in life we say things and if you were to be filming it and pull it out and show it to us later, we'd be like, Oh my God, I did say that.

And like, you know how we have feelings and we're, we're, we have a vibe, we have a nest.

We're expressing ourselves about this thing and you're just casually doing it.

And I mean, I think we both had times.

I think anyone listening, hopefully you've had a time where someone has held a mirror up to some of your things you've said or some of the things you've done and you're like, let me take some time to reflect on, reflect on this because holy shit.

Like I was being just kind of thoughtless about what I was saying.

And I think that was a moment for her where she was like, Oh my God, I do say these things.

And I do have to actually talk about that now.

I felt like it was like an oopsie.

Yeah, 100 hundred and I felt like it was relatable, but also yes.

And the times, like you said earlier in the season where those moments come up, they seem to be just part of a description and it's part of a scene where it just keeps moving on.

And it they weren't really stand up moments to me.

And then when they showed it again, it was like, Oh yeah, she does say that like multiple times.

It seemed, let's just put it this way, I was glad it was a question that was asked.

That was a benefit for sure.

I felt kind of bad for Meri having to explain herself a little bit because I also think it's OK to say what you're feeling in the moment sometimes.

But like, yes, girl, you're on a show and they're going to question you about it later.

And I think in time we will.

She, she really does try to like play it down, play it down.

That's not what I meant.

That's not what it is.

We love this.

But yes, sometimes things get stressful.

I think we know that this is an underlying feeling for Meri that extends throughout time.

Yeah.

And she doesn't understand the value of staying where she is staying.

And things change in many, many, many different ways.

So yeah, I think this is like foreshadowing at its best, right?

Like this.

This is the start of her actually saying what she means, but then having to be like whoopsie.

Yeah.

And highlights realistically, yes, if we're looking on our crystal ball and looking at the future, there is Meri's Ness about sticking with her commitment, about doing this thing because she is committed and she's made this decision and she did.

Say committed.

She's all about this commitment and we will see over the years that there, let's just say there are times where Meri is probably literally only there because two reasons.

One, she committed and she takes that commitment very seriously.

And two, she's getting a paycheck from TLC.

So there's that.

But you know, yeah, she's definitely like committed #1 she's committed.

And then also she has her child Leon, that she references previously where it's like, you know, the reasons I stay is because I made a commitment and I have a kid.

Yeah, it's not because I love my husband.

That wasn't one of the bullet points, she said.

I mean, she weaves that in there here and there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

As a priMeri.

Well, you know, yeah.

Secondary thing.

You got to love him, I guess, you know?

Actually, let's make the list.

So first it's and it's like he's like 5.

He's like 5.

Loving Kody is definitely not top 4, no.

So we conclude, Meri, you know who was super special?

And then Janelle is next.

I love the words they choose to describe each of the wives.

So Janelle is described as being level headed, thinker and worker.

Worker.

That is what Janelle is.

I was like, yeah, yeah, Amen.

That is correct.

She still does look very pretty.

We are happy with her appearance on this this couch.

And then they go into the history.

The history about how Janelle was married to Meri's brother and she So I don't remember if they even talk about.

I don't think they bring it up at all in the season prior to this.

We've talked about it a bit because of the book, and there's more things to unfurl as we move along.

But she married Meri's brother at 19 years old and she says it lasted a year.

Yeah, a year, year and a half or whatever.

She's she's so funny about what she doesn't want to talk about.

When she doesn't want to talk about something she doesn't like, maybe necessarily do an adamacy that she's not going to speak about it.

She's just vague and bullet points and whatever.

Like she's so vague when she wants to be.

I love the fact that she goes and people just kind of want to make a big deal out of this, but I guess I don't see why it's such a big day.

Like it's like what?

Right.

Like you were married.

To your sister wife.

Was your sister-in-law?

And no.

Yes, please.

Stop like this does require probably a healthy paragraph to describe what the fuck happened and you're making it seem like you know whatever and this is what she's she's just.

A person and a marriage and it's over now.

And now that's where we are today.

Everyone's young, everyone lives in a teepee for a couple hours.

Like what are you talking about?

Fucking Janelle.

This is that teepee is definitely divorce after divorce.

It has to be after divorce because then she references 2 years later she was in love with Kody and she knew Kody was the man she wanted to marry two years later.

So after getting divorced from Meri's brother.

Which is so funny because when you see wedding photos of Meri and Kody getting married, I don't know if they're at the cake or what they're doing, but to the direct side of I believe Kody is Janelle because she's there for their wedding because she's married to Meri's brother.

Well, we knew she was at the wedding, but she's in a photo with the cake.

Oh yeah, she's, I mean, she's up there like bridal party because you know, she's Meri's sister-in-law.

She's right there with them.

Janelle's telling of the story on she.

Was.

So.

Vague.

OK, OK, OK, let's get down to.

Let's really talk about this though.

Yeah, OK.

So we do truly believe that Janelle and Kody had a healthy sex life.

Oh, OK.

I don't sure.

Let's go with yes.

I think yes.

I think we believe that Janelle and Kody had a healthy sex life, yes.

OK.

So I think we could potentially come to the conclusion that there was a physical attraction between Janelle and Kody while Janelle was married as a 19 year old.

I think that seems very likely.

And then I'm not going to call Janelle a Hussey.

I want to because I kind of want that for her, for her to have a little danger and excite.

Yeah, kids, I'm not suggesting that this is the correct behavior.

Janelle's living that whole life, but.

In polygamy can't.

I mean, it's a little.

Anyway, I think it all started.

Yeah.

Maybe at that cake photo.

She's looking at Kody at the wedding.

Like, I could definitely take some of that.

I could have him bouncing off of my backside, you know?

And he's feeling her, you know, wants and desire.

Because men like Kody, this is the thing, OK?

Men like Kody, if they feel like they are wanted and desired, they are.

They are grabbing on and feeding from that.

And so you cannot tell me that if Janelle had an attraction towards him, that he wasn't like who?

She likes me.

She likes me.

You know, like, gross.

But come on.

Yeah, it started there.

It started while they were, I'm assuming that I agreed that while she was married to Meri's brother, there was something like Kody was thinking about.

He could grab onto those hips and there's like cushion for the pushin and you know, the whole thing.

He was ready for it.

He was ready to give Janelle that little Kody, and she was probably that.

Little Kody.

She was ready for it.

She was ready for little Kody, but she had to get rid of that pesky husband of hers, so she had to leave him and then, you know, somehow figure out a way to live in ATP.

On Kody.

Fuck him.

She had to marry him.

Let's be honest.

Yeah.

She did.

She totally had to marry him.

Oh my.

Ladies, we.

Don't have to make it this hard, OK?

You can just have sex with people without marrying them like you can't.

Do that.

That is true.

It is against God's law, but it is true.

Anyway, God's law.

God's law.

It's funny because then there's like this part where Natalie seems to think, well, she says that she thinks that they're well off because they have this house and Kody's got his sports car and blah, blah, blah.

And even while she's saying this to them, they are laughing.

And it is obviously I just like, obviously not true.

It's not like they hound on the fact that they're broke, but in retrospect we hear later in the book they talk about it.

They are broke.

They are broke as fuck when they got this show.

Like literally like trying to not have the kids be hungry broke.

Yeah, I did think it was again, when they're trying to be like open and transparent about stuff.

Right.

Like they're open and transparent about stuff.

Yeah.

And this is definitely not one that they're trying to put on the Like, they even they were like, Oh my God, thank you.

You think that Like, thank you.

You know, it was, it was pretty funny.

They thought we had done a good job of not looking like poor fuckers on TV or something.

Yeah.

They said they were struggling just like everyone else.

And so this is a again, where it's like the second time that they try to tie it along with we are just like everyone else.

And in theory they are.

I mean, I'm not trying to say they're inherently different except that I guess you have a 5 income household as opposed to A2, you know, but that household has to be much larger.

So it was interesting.

I don't know.

They talk about insurance and I think it's, I think it's interesting that insurance comes up because in the culture they don't often have insurance.

And this is just something that's kind of known.

If you were to look into the AUB or fundamentalist Mormons, they don't have insurance oftentimes, oftentimes their employment, they oftentimes are poor as families.

There's entire concepts of like wives scamming for food stamps and government support and things like that.

And I don't really know a lot of details about that.

So I I don't really know how to dive into that.

But one thing is for sure, what the insurance has a connection to what we talked about before with the hospital beds, they referenced Maddie having her appendix burst or something and how Janelle's like, we are the queen of payments.

Like she's like, we are still paying for that today.

And Amen.

I mean, people are paying for medical things all the time.

But I have a feeling that Kody's way of explaining how their insurance work was like rose colored glasses.

I suspect they might have had moments, but no one was insured or maybe just one of the wives or something like that.

It's a common thing in the culture to not have insurance and do not go to the hospital and to deal with those consequences.

But do you think that part of the not having that is it's not just like some religious belief about like anti western medicine or something?

It's literally about the fact that as a human being father, you cannot afford to insure 16 children and four wives.

Like what's that insurance policy?

Like for real, like unless everyone and even if you are just a, you know, one husband, one wife, I was going to say normal family and I didn't.

Then I was like, let's not because let's not.

But even if you are A2 spouse family with four children, ensuring that is astronomical.

So like you cannot tell me that there is a way in which they really were doing super great financially that any of that could ever make sense.

And so I feel like part of the reason that the religion teaches this way about like Western medicine is because they literally no, none of their people are going to be able to afford to go to a hospital.

Yeah, yeah, that totally makes sense.

I mean even if we take the Browns as an example, if every wife had a full time job with full benefits then maybe she could cover her own children but it would still be insane.

They wouldn't really have an income, they literally just pay for insurance.

Yeah, so it just struck me that it seemed like Kody's way of talking about it was a bit glossy, was a bit like, and I let's not look over here, like look over here, not over here.

But also, what are you going to do?

I mean, what you're saying makes total sense.

It's really interesting to catch that little detail.

It was like a not even 32nd conversation about insurance.

And then my brain went, holy fuck, none of your kids have insurance.

It's like, that's that's insane.

And do you know what that that makes families not go get their children medical attention when they need it like.

Yeah.

Not that we're foreshadowing anything in the future, which we are, but that's true.

And even as someone who grew up in a family that didn't have much, I think economically we were.

My family was probably in line with the Browns as far as our lifestyle and what we had and what we did.

My parents both had jobs where they were able to.

One of them was able to provide insurance for us as kids.

And like, when I look back at my childhood, all the things I didn't get, wah, wah, wah, like whatever.

We were able to go to the doctor and we were able to like be seen when needed.

And that's such a benefit of like a traditional monogamous family if you have the benefit of having these benefits.

Well, it's just one of the simple things that like, I don't think parents, I mean, if I'm being honest, like family is like this.

I don't think that that's a consideration in birthing your babies is how am I going to insure them?

Whereas and, and maybe it's not in a lot of households and I'm totally detached from reality, obviously, or like there's many different realities.

But like, I think having insurance for myself and my children is extremely important.

And so of course, of course there are times that that can be taken away from you, but like at least starting off at the beginning, at least starting off at the very beginning.

My intention is for everyone to be insured.

And yes, the rug can come out from underneath us and crazy shit can happen.

And I don't blame anybody for anything but like to enter into super large families with super many kids with no avenues of employment to give you these options and probably not even being able to apply for like state benefits.

Don't you imagine that they're not applying for any sort?

Of that's where the fraud.

Handouts or anything like that?

Yes, you just said that from the book.

Yeah.

I mean, and the Browns try to make it clear that that was not their MO.

I don't know how you prove that it wasn't your MO.

I don't know anyone digging into the history.

But if there is a way that you know, like let's say none of the Kody's not on any of Janelle's children's birth certificates, so she gets to apply for state benefits and have her kids.

In charge.

So she's a single parent, no father in the in the.

Household so I don't know that that's what the Browns, but right.

So we don't have any specific evidence that that's what the Browns did.

But culturally in the AUB and outliers, it's a common thing that that's part of the governmental reason for why they don't want these families to happen is because people scam for benefits all the time.

Now, interesting.

And I'm usually pretty pro people scamming for benefits.

I'm kidding.

I'm kidding.

What I mean?

What I mean by that?

We want every child to have healthcare.

Right.

So like, I, I'm cool if there's a small and, and it's all small percent, if there's a small percentage of people abusing the system, but because of the system in general, a vast majority of people get to have assistance that would otherwise not be there.

I'm OK with the small percentage scamming the system to have the others get the fucking benefit.

OK so like this is where I stand.

The polygamist can scam the system all they want to.

That's what I'm hearing.

And so let them.

Oh, that's another self help book.

Worthy up, worthy up, that's what that's where Meri ends up in the in the future.

Worthy up, worthy up.

It's a complicated thing.

And it's a little weird because as an individual who doesn't have children, a single person, a high priority for me when switching jobs when coming out of a bout of unemployment of anything is getting insurance.

So it's weird to like have meltable people like all these kids in your house uninsured.

So maybe they weren't always uninsured in this family.

Maybe they were.

We don't know.

So in one of the talking points or one of the bullet points that Janelle makes when they're when Natalie, I'm not sure if Natalie asked her a specific question about Robyn joining the family.

But one of the things that Janelle talks about with this current phase of their life is that she had a few weeks where she didn't even want to talk to Kody because, and I think this is a thing, like maybe there was a question to every wife about their relationship with Kody.

And she was like, I did not want to talk to Kody for weeks.

And she says, you know, I'm more logical.

I'm pretty secure in who I am long before Robyn came into the family.

So it's interesting because Janelle does have that kind of like IDGAF, like she doesn't give a fuck.

Like she is the worker.

Like, I love these labels.

She's the logical 1 and she does seem self confident in a way that you know she probably doesn't need anyone's approval or whatever, but she could still be upset with her husband for ignoring her and being Uber attentive to someone that's not even part of their family.

I'm going to say two things.

And number one, right before she got into talking about how mad she was at Kody, they were making points still about the financial bit, right?

And Janelle goes, Christine even cooks at home.

Like it's a message of like financial savings.

I was like God this.

Is.

So long ago, like DoorDash didn't didn't even exist back then.

It was just very funny.

Like they're taking their family out to dinner every night.

Oh.

My God, it was like, no, Christine cooks at home for the family, for your children.

Like, Oh my gosh, I just, the way she phrased it was hysterical.

Christine's the We have McDonald's at home parent and and Janelle's like, yeah, we do.

And it's like, well, bitch, you weren't going to make it anyway.

But you know, yes, that was a funny moment.

It caught me off guard.

I was like, OK, I love Christine even cooked it up like because you all are cooking at home, shut up.

But you're just anyway, you're not.

But.

Well, Janelle's probably microwaving some stuff at home.

She's probably got a toaster oven on the counter.

I mean, she's, you know, whatever.

Logan is cooking at home.

Logan's cooking for Janelle at home.

Yes, that's so true.

We love you, Logan.

OK, I already.

Forgot my first point, no.

That was your first point.

Your second point.

My second .0 she didn't want to talk to Kody for a few weeks.

I did think it was funny that she never really said why.

Yeah, she didn't get into details about it.

I just assumed it.

Like I said, I I thought it was the bag.

Like not spending time with them, with some other woman.

Kind of like this.

The nests.

I think that is where I was going with it was that what I think is different between how Meri and Christine evaluate their relationship with Kody and how Janelle does okay because some of the feeling Ness stuff is not bothering to know that she could give 2 shits.

She doesn't care about that stuff.

What Janelle needs is routine and dependability.

And so she thought that she kind of had that.

She thought she was getting those things from him as she needed them, and then all of a sudden that's what was dropping for her, right?

That's what was taken away from her because she would be able to.

I'm going to figure out how I need to do these 9 1/2 out of 10 things, but there is 1/2 a thing I need Kody for.

And I know he's going to be here on Thursday so I can get this done on Thursday and then I can move on with the rest of my life.

And then Kody doesn't show up on Thursday and now she is like, I literally needed you for half of one thing and you weren't there for me.

And I think it's funny that it's so different.

I think it's so different why he's needed for each of them.

And it speaks to their personalities.

And I think that you're right.

I think that Janelle's is about those things routine and.

Dependability.

Dependability, yes.

If and when she needs a person, she now has the slot that I can depend on this person and I've I've learned to lean into depending on this person for the slot of things that I need.

And now he's nowhere to be found.

And now I'm fucking pissed.

Like I'm not even sad and boohoo and whatever.

I'm mad because I want 1 little thing from you and I cannot get that.

And who knows, maybe when Kody comes around, he's less interested in doing the cushion for the pushin like we were talking about earlier, because Robyn's in the picture now.

And it's like, do not take away little Kody from Janelle.

Do not do it.

Do not do it.

Do you think that he got to a point that he could only sexually satisfy one out of his three wives instead of one out of his three wives?

One out of his four wives instead of one of his.

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

I fucked it up.

You know, I don't know.

It would be.

That's so funny.

It's such a a chin scratcher.

I'm literally scratching my chin scratching like, you know, hmm.

I'd like to think that Kody could really give it to Janelle, and I'd like to think that she could take it.

But do you think it got to a point that he wasn't giving?

I know.

And then she thought, probably, Why do I even have you?

Yeah, I think so little foreshadowing.

I mean, he's just I'm a piece of meat to her.

And it's like, well, maybe you are.

And maybe one of the.

That's the only thing you.

Can do for me.

Literally I was hoping for 110th of an effort one day a week and you fucked that up so at least make me yell your name like I don't know.

I think it's so funny because.

I don't.

Oh Jesus Christ.

Jesus, Jesus.

So I was walking around a corner at work today and somebody scared me when I opened the door and I screamed Jesus Christ.

Oh gosh.

And it was so loud and it was right behind, like a public area.

It was so bad.

Blasphemous.

It's like you fucking asshole.

I'll pray for you tonight, honey.

I'll pray for you.

When they transitioned into talking about Christine and her background and whatever they start with how she knows what she wants and she gets it.

This kind of like, oh, La La, la, la.

Because she knew she wanted to be a polygamist.

She knew she wanted to be the third wife and she knew this and she knew that and she got it all.

And in my mind, I'm going, it's funny that she's the first one who like blatantly later is cool.

Like, OK, maybe she's not the first, that's blatantly clear, but she's the 1st that really pounds it in how unhappy she is and how she doesn't like this and the problems with the family.

And that's many, many years later.

But this tee up now in season 1, is that like she knew what she wanted and she went ahead and got it.

And it's like, well, be careful what you fucking wish for a girl because you got it and it's a shit show.

And now you're married to Kody fucking Brown.

So I thought that was an interesting way to tee it up, given that we know what happens in the future.

I think she did have like a thought process and like strategy behind what she was doing, which was interesting.

I think.

I believe that that was her legitimate strategy.

Yeah, I think I.

Do it seems like that was intentional.

You mentioned to like what happens in the future and I while Christine may appear to be the first one that like starts to like complain and be super honest about things, I think that's mostly just because we will find that she is the first one to be comfortable with showing that level of emotion and frustration about some things.

I could be wrong about that, but I just feel like everybody was equally as frustrated as she was and she's painted as the only one that got mad about it or something.

And I think it'll, I think the writing was on the wall for others a lot sooner than what people acknowledge it.

But anyway, this was the example when they did the second showing of a clip with them all watching and they watched truly.

'S.

Now, before we move on to truly, I wanted to point out that I think this whole the ambition of Christine's, this goal, this thing that she wanted and she manufactured it for her.

She manifested, she made it happen.

It is she wanted it, she got it.

I feel like there's something juvenile about it that strikes me as Christine's thing.

It reminds me of something when you're like 13 or you're, you're a teenager and you have this, this is what I want to do.

And then you become a young adult and then you go through some life experiences and it's like she ends up in a way forcing herself into the family.

And I hate to put it that way, but she literally like she wanted and she made it happen.

But it sounded like something that like a 22 year old, however old she was when they got married, maybe that wouldn't be that person's goal.

It was something she decided long ago and was going to stick with it.

And it's very kind of, once again, a little uneducated, a little haven't seen the world, a little whatever.

And it also to me, speaks to Christine's nest that as we get to know her more, she's a fucking 13 year old girl.

She's straight up.

Well, she's naive, like part of the whole, like you're saying a lot of different things there.

And some of it is about how she was maybe being strategic or what's the word persistent or whatever else, right?

I think that all applies.

But I think that behind some of that was like naiveness and immaturity.

I think that we can see as Christine ages that she has still the same, she's still her, but she like analyzes things a lot differently and you you can tell that she reads situations and rooms and things differently a little bit and just maybe understands it.

The way that you would respond to a situation today.

She would respond to that back then very differently if she could, you know, like looking at current day situation versus what was happening back then.

She seemed a little naive and just silly about some shit, you know?

Well, and to me, she just has this like Disney teenage thing.

Like I feel like she is stuck with a little bit of her stuck with like My Little Ponies and playing dolls, making up scenarios.

Like I swear there's a part of her that's like.

She's cheesy, She's cheesy.

Cheesy.

Cheesy.

AF, cheesy AF, and I don't know, whatever.

So they do have just these couple of moments where they, at least on camera, show them play a flashback to the actual show, to the time that it happened.

And one of that they made them rewatch Truly's birth video in the hospital.

That was pretty special.

I thought There were lots of tears.

Everyone cried.

It seem genuine, like again, there are just some of these moments that you look at all of them together and you think maybe this could work.

Yeah, yeah.

As we know, it doesn't, but I thought that was touching.

I like that that was one of the moments they replayed and not just like another dramatic moment that was going to like cause a fight or something like that.

Like I thought that was a plus.

It was a nice gift to give Christine for this episode, particularly that one of her highlights, one of her bullet points was the birth of her child.

And everyone is teary eyed and everyone's like feeling the feels and it was a positive moment, so I guess that's good.

Yes.

I guess I mean, it truly was special.

Yes, it truly was.

Yeah.

We're not looking for advertisers, OK?

It's fine.

Definitely not truly.

But like, you know, two birds, one stone.

We're truly not looking for an advertiser.

Two birds, one stone.

OK after that.

Moving on there.

Yep.

So the baby was born.

I thought it was funny, Christine, she was having like a moment of reflection and she said that she had not understood what Meri and Janelle had gone through with her joining the family.

And I thought that was a good tidbit, right?

I don't think her joining the family was probably as dramatic as like, what's happening now.

But maybe it was like, maybe it was because, again, there was 16 years before they brought Robyn in, right?

So like, what was all that time like?

And maybe that's part of the reason why they didn't.

So, like, I don't know.

But she recognized now that Robyn's coming in what the other two had gone through, and I thought that was important.

Yeah, There was also a little moment between her and Robyn where she referenced something about that and Rob, you know, like being replaced by Robyn or something.

And Robyn was like, I'm not replacing you.

Like even in the moment, there's this little she was.

Like honey, no, I didn't mean that or something like, you know, and.

It's like, OK, well.

But they can still have the feelings that they're having about their situation changing.

And I think that's what's interesting is that they're trying not to make it as a personal attack against Robyn because it's not a personal attack against Robyn.

It's an attack against or a complaint against their husband and the new situation that they all are in it and the dynamic with him.

It's it's not that she's awful, she's terrible.

Get rid of her.

And it never was that from the beginning.

And oh, interesting thinking about this, Kody always received it as them attacking Robyn, and they knew, and they said it over and over again.

We're not attacking Robyn.

This has nothing to do with Robyn.

We're talking to you.

This is about you.

And he could never hear it because he thought they were attacking Robyn.

No how many years later it's the same story, second verse, same as the first.

Shocking.

Everyone's attacking Robyn.

Shocking.

We did not expect this to be coming, ladies and gentlemen.

We really didn't.

It would take a rocket scientist and a brain surgeon to know what the future holds.

Thank God we're both.

Yes, also medical doctors.

I mean, it's just, Oh my God, I just did like a Nene League's face that was.

Ridiculous Legal disclaimer.

Legal disclaimer.

Oh yeah, we're none of those things.

We tell you at the beginning.

We are literally deadbeat losers like we are deadbeat losers.

We're none of those things.

They have a moment to where it's like the whole Kody picked the dress for.

Oh my God, she's still mad about the dress.

That's what I wrote down.

Still mad about the dress.

As she should be.

I'm not over it either.

She doesn't have to be.

Yeah, I mean, she's holding on to it.

And like, I would too, Kody intimates that he's still paying for that bomb drop.

And it's like, well, OK, yeah.

I mean, like when you upset a spouse and you do whatever, yeah, pour him.

I mean, like, yeah, your wife's fucking pissed at you.

And she should have been.

And I mean, she should be over by now.

I don't know how much time has passed.

I don't know your details, but like, yeah, dude.

Like when you and then when they show the, the, the clip back where he's like, I got a bomb to drop and he does this like tongue out the mouth thing.

It's so much gross.

The more times you see it.

It's so gross.

It's so gross.

Oh.

The shirt was like yellow too wasn't it Yellow stripe?

Yeah, yeah.

Gross.

Sorry, I'll try not to gag next time.

Try not to gag when you're talking about Kody, please.

This was all finishing up on Christine, the whole dress piece, whatever.

Yeah, she's still mad.

He feels like.

Poor me.

And she said that she felt jealous and abandoned.

Like that's one of the things that she felt like as this whole transition was coming about with Robyn, they didn't leave it on like a bomb drop note or something like that.

But she did say she was feeling jealous and abandoned.

And great way to start.

And then they talk about Robyn, the trophy wife.

The trophy wife, you know, I don't know what as Kody's trophy wife, Kody's trophy wife.

Well, obviously it's Kody's trophy wife, but I don't really know what to say about the whole like trophy wife thing.

I I don't really I mean, she's younger and she's the new model.

I guess she's not much of A trophy.

She's like a third place dinged up bronze medal.

I mean, I don't even know but.

I know the appeal to me is less than normal as well, but the descriptors for Robyn were that she was sweet and emotional, yeah.

Oh God.

That was Robyn's descriptor.

So if I want to page back and look at the others, I'm like, Oh my God.

But she's sweet and emotional.

She's very sweet and emotional.

She when Robyn's like talking at one point she says that she had a list that she wanted in a mate and Kody meets them all.

And in my mind I'm going is the list a TV show?

Debt relief snap an unnecessary father figure.

Like what is your list?

Literally Like OK, he has a pulse and he could bring about money and pay off your debt and be an unnecessary father for your children that already have a father.

I mean.

Listen, you completely misread that situation because what she really meant I'm.

Sure I did.

And actually said out loud was that she was trying to learn how to become more selfless.

That's what this whole experience is.

Therefore, so it it's it after her list of the qualities in the man that's going to really perfect her life.

The goal is for it all to make her more selfless.

You can ponder that for a minute.

I wonder if there's a doll called Selfless from the American like doll collect, whatever those things are.

Like maybe there's a $500 dress for a doll called Selfless and she saved up for that.

I'd like to see on her gold journey where she marks her path.

Selfless with like glittered stars.

I did it.

Lisa Frank sticker selfless.

Look it, I did it.

I made it all the way there.

I'm perfectly selfless now.

She's such an idiot.

She's so dumb.

Oh my God.

I did note that Meri when one of the B roller flashback moments, Meri had her long hair.

She's got her long hair and I love that about this first season.

There's only things at the beginning and the end where Meri's got her long hair and it's like, oh, those that oh, puddle monkey with that long hair footage throwing that in there.

I think one of the questions that they were asked was why after 16 years did you now choose that this is the time for the 4th wife, right?

Which we know this has been in consideration at least very early on in the marriage based on their book.

And I think I wish we knew more about the interim 16 years, but I think what Meri described it as was right person, right time.

Like just how somehow this being magically landed in their laps and they were like, Yep, this is it.

This is what we're going to do.

We're going to get that fourth wife now.

Because even though they had courted someone at least one other person before who was technically a minor, and I don't know that that's, you know, whatever, that's fine.

But Kody refers was a minor.

I know, I know.

I checked it with legal and they they said but technical in front of that.

Yeah.

Now they totally quartered a minor who backed up before she turned 18.

Kody said that he had an ick factor.

That was funny.

This is.

He's so full of fucking shit.

He is so full of fucking shit.

Like he's downplaying the entire thing.

What was the ick factor, Chris?

What was the ick factor?

That she had children.

She was divorced.

She was divorced with kids.

What was my favorite part after that?

Oh, I don't know.

When Janelle says, you know, lots of people have been divorced, just in case you forgot.

Yeah, because Janelle is his second wife that he's now married post divorce.

Granted she didn't have children in the mix, but she also was like fuck you motherfucker, basically.

It was kind of like a peanut gallery comment, like she's like back here.

Like Remember Me?

Lots of people get divorced.

Your second wife.

Yes, Kody, forward-looking.

Turns out it happens a few more times.

Kody's real bright.

Oopsie.

One of the things that when, you know, during Robyn's segment is that she talks about how she's always crying and then there's like a Janelle moment where she's like, oh, Robyn's crying again.

He's.

Like the joke of the family, only Robyn always cries.

She's crying again.

Yes I had an LOL moment for sure L0L 0L0 LOLOLOL it was so good.

Especially because I mean, like, OK, like coming from Chanel, it just puts the frosting on that cake.

Because Janelle.

Handle your.

I know because Janelle's just straight shooter chick and it's like, Oh my God, Robyn, shut the fuck up.

And particularly because she is so performative and most of those tears are not real.

That just makes it so much more like insane.

And I mean, Robyn can't get through a paragraph without starting to.

It's like, oh shut the fuck up, girl.

Yeah, I don't I so I'm having some personal struggles with this, Chris.

Yes.

Because.

Tell me.

Kevin's a Libra and I just like, I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt in one moment.

And I don't think it was this particular one, to be fair.

But in one moment there was something that was being said and they were talking about Robyn and all this and I wanted to give her like a little like, oh, maybe she really is XYZABC.

And then I was like, no, I can't do that.

Like, I can't give her a pass for every single behavior by thinking that really her intent.

I don't believe her intentions are the best.

I don't believe that she's just like innocently stumbling upon all of these things that upset people.

I don't think that's the case.

And so if she was, she would fix them appropriately, I kind of think, or they would just be done though.

And that is what it is.

But like, I don't think she's just accidentally stumbling upon all of this trouble.

What does that have to do with being a Libra?

Because I'm a.

Because.

You're, I know, I know.

I'm like, OK, it's just literally that you're like, I can't have this shared thing with this person because she's so ridiculous.

I think that I, I think that typically with Libras that are feelers, like actual feelers, that if you, if you are affecting somebody else in a way, in a certain way that really bothers you, like that certainly bothers you and she does get her SOB and Robyn feelings, whatever, but also like she doesn't change her behavior in any fashion except to benefit her.

I think that we've seen and I think that's a little different.

I think that a typical Libra caters to others a little bit more.

I'm not saying 150%, but I'm saying at least enough that you're probably not thinking they're the asshole all the time.

You might think they're the asshole.

But when they're being an asshole.

Correct.

Like they're an asshole moment.

Yeah.

But outside of that?

Now, I don't think it's like a general, like they're always a Dick and looking out for themselves over others.

I just don't think that's the vibe of the the sign.

Yeah.

And so I struggle with trying to pinpoint her behaviors and her actions with that, and then figure out where she's genuine and where she's not.

I don't know, I'm confused.

I agree, I don't really know how to read her.

There are times in the future when talking about sexual orientation that I think her genuineness comes out.

I know.

And I'm saying that from the lens of a queer person, where when she's speaking.

To.

Children that are queer or about her friends that are same sex partnerships and they want to get married and she's all about that.

And she demonstrates the sensitivity.

So to me, of course, I paint through my contacts.

I'm like, oh, she's a genuine person when talking about that.

But I don't know, I can't read her genuineness at all.

God, and this is so bad.

But then part of me starts to think like if she just really felt like she never fit in from the beginning.

And that's like one of the most uncomfortable feelings right as not.

And I'm not saying just like Libra sign, I'm saying like human being in general, but like if you just literally never feel like you fit in in your daily life.

And then I'm adding on my experience personally with like just that vibe for me and those insecurities and things.

Yeah, it makes you a.

Pretty not typical version of yourself, right?

And so maybe there's an aspect of that to her.

Like, I don't know, I'm, I'm just trying to put all of these pieces into different places because I don't think I'm coming out of this giving Robyn a pass.

PS by the way.

But I'm trying to understand what the differentiations are with how and why she's making these decisions and these choices, because I'm still a little confused, you know?

Kody also seems to be confused.

Imagine, imagine Kody's fucking confused because he talks about turning to God and he questions his faith over marrying Robyn.

And I feel like it's interesting how people can validate anything by saying that like, oh, I guess I'm just, you know, courting this wife and like now I'm in love with her and whatever, but I had to really look inside and, and question God and question my faith.

And it's like, did you really?

I mean, I don't know.

Anyone could just say I asked God and he said sure, go for it.

And I'm like, yeah, cool.

So this is what I'm doing now.

It's just kind of some bullshit.

I feel like he's just so full of shit.

I just want to understand, do people actually do this?

You sit there and you feel like you're talking to a higher power.

And I'm, I'm not trying to be a Dick.

I know that some people do have a level and aspect of that that happens.

But when I try to have these conversations, all it is is my own voice in my head rambling that gets me nowhere and I can't come to any solution.

So I mean, I guess I'm good really helpful if people have like the conclusion that they get from that.

For me, I just go on the hamster wheel and that's just how it happens, you know?

I've never really understood that because I personally have not heard a booming voice in the sky telling me what to do.

So I look at the nuances and the direction and the opportunity and the situations as outcomes from a creator, not God telling me like, go for it, buddy.

Like, I don't even know what that means.

I don't, I don't hear a voice in my head either.

So I don't know.

But you know, Kody might be hearing voices.

Well, he's hearing and seeing something.

Kody hears a lot of voices.

Most of them are himself.

Hear me.

Kody I.

Don't know copyright?

Can't do it.

We know all the words, We actually just cannot sing the song for you due to copyright infringement.

Kody, can you touch me?

Says Robyn.

Oh Jesus, I'm falling apart.

Oh God.

Oh God.

Robyn also talks about how the teenagers come over and raid her closet.

And I'm like, OK, girl, like, Amen.

Once again, you're 30 and I don't know, maybe if you're thirty teenagers can raid your closet.

But I feel like it's once again her being like, I'm like 15 years old but with a lot of experience in baggage like gross gross.

They said she brought a strength and coolness.

Yes, yes, of course.

Also brought down the GPA but other than that like.

Brought down the GPA.

Like their grade point average?

Robyn did.

Smart.

Yeah, and Kody talks about how Robyn's kids are my kids.

I wouldn't take anything away from their other dad.

Their other dad?

You mean their actual dad?

And by the way, that is not true.

You literally go out of your way to take them away from their dad.

You got yourself a like as their adopted father when they actually had a father.

Yeah.

So, yeah, we'll get into that later.

We don't need to get into that because whatever.

Oh God, they ask if there's ever going to be 1/5.

Oh God.

Robyn's on the roof with Natalie and she asks if there will ever be a fifth wife and Robyn says, well I don't think so, but I mean what if they had said no after a third?

Then I wouldn't be here.

So I can't say no to nothing after me.

She's so bright, so logical.

If I ever had a problem, I'd go to Robyn Brown.

So after they wrap up the sumMeri of Robyn and her gifts to the family, her presence, her light, her love, Kody is asked about what he's like on the show versus in real life.

Or something, I don't remember.

Do you feel like you've been portrayed well on the?

Show Oh, Natalie, such a investigative reporter and he says I think I'm more dramatic than on the show, which I was like, mind blown.

He's like a cartoon character, like he's out of control and ridiculous.

Thank God they tamed him down.

What?

What is he talking about?

You shouldn't have been able to be yourself.

It's if it's worse than this.

Oh my God, what does he call himself that he thinks of himself as he thinks of himself as a?

OK.

Natalie asks.

Oh, OK.

Oh, so you know, you remember the question.

Do you consider yourself a Playboy?

And he says I am not a Playboy, I am a party boy.

Yeah, I'm a party boy.

What the fuck's a party, boy?

I think a party, I don't know.

I thought a party boy would be like a college boy who's like sleeping around.

So I don't know.

And then the next term is that he is an enigma.

Enigma.

That's my favorite.

So.

No one gets him because he's an enigma.

He is super humble and that's all I know.

Yeah, no, he's an enigma and he says no one gets him.

And I'm going yeah, we sure as fuck don't.

Nobody gets you, Kody Brown.

Nobody gets you because you don't make any sense.

The Meri getting fired bit.

I don't even know what that's all about.

So they didn't say what her job was.

No.

And I'm going like my Spidey sense is not like in this story.

I don't even know that it's actually true.

I don't even know that I believe it.

I don't know.

I wish we had additional detail, but they said that she was fired because of the show coming out.

Then there was like an investigation potentially.

Into their family.

Uh huh.

From from like the Lehigh Police Department or something for bigamy.

Bigamy.

Yeah, Having more?

Than one spouse.

That's the crime, right?

Yeah, yeah.

There's general voice over discussion, like I guess Natalie, the narrator, the the interviewer in the narrator discussion about polygamy being illegal and the things about all of that and whatever.

And you know, Kody's when, when they're asked questions, they defer to, well, they defer to, we're going to defer to our lawyers.

I don't know.

They kind of try to distinguish it a little bit like we are just living together.

They're not legal marriages here.

So how can these laws if it's not something legally?

I'm not trying to legally say I'm married to four people, right?

So how can you come at me?

Like if you and I were living as spouses but without the paperwork, then why would that be illegal?

Correct.

Yeah.

And like I, I'm there for it, right?

Like I'm there for that.

They are not trying to break a law of religious ceremony versus a legal document is a very different thing as we know.

So I'm fine with that.

Like I think that's kind of interesting that that's how they, you know, had to play it a part.

They're just cohabitating, but it's not a legal marriage.

Yeah, fine.

And then we defer to our attorneys.

We defer to our attorneys.

We defer to our, we are not attorneys.

We defer to our attorneys.

Yeah, and that rationale does make sense.

I don't quite understand how it is that, Yeah, you persecute or, excuse me, prosecute someone for pretending to be married.

I don't really know what that means.

I thought it was interesting that they cut away to Jonathan Turley as their attorney.

He's now an analyst for Fox News.

And Jonathan Turley has some interesting perspectives on the world.

I don't know how like if his starts are in Utah or if he's more like a get for the family through some PR media agent blah blah blah.

Those that are putting together our cork board with yarn strings and fact checking statistics, all of that we'd love to know anymore you can tell us about.

How does Jonathan Turley know the Brown family?

How did he get involved?

And is there any more?

Because I don't know that we'll ever see or hear from him again when it comes.

To the Browns, he kind of said like, there's no evidence of abuse or crimes.

And I think that was accurate.

Like, I don't, I mean, I'm cool what he was saying.

I think works.

Yeah.

And then that was kind of the last of the legal woes of it all, I think, right?

Yeah, then it was transitioned into talking about tabloids and.

Fans and tabloids.

Yeah, they all joke about it how there's like every week there's a different wife leaving and blah, blah, blah.

And it's something you got to get used to.

And there was anything unexpected that they said, I don't know anything stand out to you.

My favorite thing was that Natalie asked.

If you did want to leave, could you?

Yes, yes.

And Kody says that the women wanted to leave, they'd get the kids and he would work double time to support that.

He would request that they still live next door if possible, but he wasn't demanding it, He just thought that could be convenient and that yes, he will pay for everything.

And he made eye contact with Christine when he was first talking about this.

And it was almost like an intensity where I was like, it made my my mind go like he's looking at Christine and saying this almost.

I think like his perspective was probably to like validate that you are here of your own free will and you can leave anytime.

It just stuck out to me as like a quasi guest lady, quasi manipulative power holder move.

I don't know.

It did.

It made me feel uncomfortable.

I think what is so funny is one of the things he said at the beginning of this interview episode, whatever, was that he couldn't control his wives.

Yeah.

Yes.

And so he said that and that he was well trained and what not, right?

What I think is funny is that he may not be able to control them, but he also stopped being able to manipulate them and to gas like them.

Yeah, I think that early on, with his demeanor and the vibes going on, it didn't come across the way it did.

And then I think once things changed and he was being questioned and he was being pushed and he was being hounded to do things differently than what he had decided and chosen, I don't think that registered well to him.

And so I think he changed dramatically.

And we see it literally happen in front of our faces.

Yeah.

So I think it's just interesting.

I think the words were fine when they were said about what they were said, but that's not how it all continues as it all plays out for this family.

Interesting first kind of roundup, season finale, blah blah blah of the show.

We still have one more episode of the season like we were talking about earlier, where Kody and Robyn go on a honeymoon.

I'm prepared to vomit in my mouth and swallow it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know how I felt after watching this a little bit.

Like it was almost, it was way more fun to see the moments of the family kind of playing out than it was to see them analyzing it, because we're still analyzing it from like 30,000 feet.

And we're just like, you're all fucking wrong, you know, What are you?

Doing yes, yes.

It's it's interesting.

I'll be curious to see how the next one goes.

So before we do our keep sweet moment, we've got to do mustard seed and shit stain.

I already know my mustard seed.

If you want me to go, my mustard seed is Janelle.

My mustard seed is Janelle.

Because her eyes and her hair look great.

That blouse was popping.

She looked great.

And call me a shallow gay man, but when you're on TV, you should probably look fucking good if you can.

And she looked good.

Now, do I think she had any control over that?

No.

Do I think she made any choices?

Absolutely not.

But she rocked the assignment.

She showed up and someone made her look great.

So I'm giving Janelle my mustard seed because I thought she looked the best out of everyone.

I thought she looked really pretty.

I have to give her the mustard seed.

I fully agree and fully support that.

And I think it's one of the few times we see that happen for Janelle.

And I think that Janelle also looks that beautiful all the time or could look that beautiful all the time.

Like I don't think it's actually that hard to like do a little something to her hair and her makeup and make an improvement and look, I get it.

I look like a troll half the time and more than half the time.

But you know, we can try a little harder and it can look a little better.

So I am going to give my mustard seed to Christine and my mustard seed to Christine is because I truly, even though it was kind of like the PR Ness about the church and whatnot.

I think those were her true beliefs at that point in time.

I don't think it was just about putting on a show about what was being put out there.

And I think that she was pretty open and honest about all of the feels about all of the things that happened.

And she even did try to like rein it in about getting mad about the dress the second time.

So I think she's doing pretty good with trying to navigate this while still also not being a fake phony bitch about it.

Yeah.

So I'm appreciating that about her.

Amen.

My shit stain is your mustard seed.

Hysterical.

Because I recognize now and it will only unfold and unfro more.

How Christine is a stunted teenager as an adult.

And it really just kind of rubs me the wrong way because I feel like in life, if you miss like early adult opportunities and things that craft who you become as a person and like life experiences and you know, because she grew up how she grew up.

So I can't fault her for her at all.

But I'm also like, girl, you're a grown ass woman with a bunch of kids and the Disney vibes are too much for me.

I don't like it.

So she's getting my shit stained.

And I'm not, I'm not a hater.

I'm not even mad.

She's got to get my shit stained in this episode.

I'm so torn because I want to be mad at Robyn but they really didn't do a lot of talking about Robyn so to be honest like she was kept a little bit down further than the others so I feel like it's unfair for me to pick Robyn.

I think I have to go with Kody and truthfully it's just because of General Kody Brown vibes.

Not even anything super specific or crazy that he did, just that he's the only one deserving of it at this point.

He's an enigma shit stain.

Oh, oh, that's what he was looking for, I think the whole time.

He's a shit stain wrapped in an enigma and not cash.

Well you just made his dreams come true, so that's shitty.

Stain Kody Brown.

My God, we're both singing.

We're both singing.

I know there's a lot of theater.

Kody, can you hear me?

Kody, can you hear me?

Kody, you're a shit stain.

This week's keep sweet moment comes to us from Kaylee and it is a comment on TikTok.

And the little background on this is we uploaded a video about Kody talking about his buns of steel and how he's, you know, whatever, he's just a piece of meat and blah, blah, blah.

And Kaylee says, quote.

I've never seen Kody and Jlo in a room at the same time.

Oh.

My God, I think it's.

Amazing.

Because it's like, yes, like Kody and Jlo.

Like maybe yeah.

Never seen Jlo and Kody in the same room.

If he would keep his mouth closed, I would think he would look far more attractive.

And if you can't?

Speak at the same time.

Yeah, no speaking keeps.

His mouth closed.

Moving forward, Moving forward, yes.

So our next episode will be a rewatch of the honeymoon with Kody and Robyn.

Neither one of us has seen this.

Can't wait.

I'm hoping that we just get to like tear Robyn apart.

That would make me feel good because I'm a positive person.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, we bid you adieu and we hope that we have touched you in only an auditory and mental way.

It.

Was an excellent clarification.

Grace, thank you for making sure that we didn't touch them inappropriately in other ways.

Well, Allie, thank you for touching me.

On that note, I do think it's time we call it quits, so thank you for being here.

God bless you all.

Thank you for joining us.

We'll see you on the flip side.