Oh my god, welcome back to Babylon Weird.

The podcast we are watching and reacting to Babylon five is really excited.

Oh my god.

Yes, I am Jenny.

I am a big fan of this show.

I watched it multiple times.

Guess it can barely contain himself else are we okay?

And it's me?

I'm Jen Jen.

I love the show.

I'm a screenwriter and a story editor.

And when I'm not a story editor, what the hell?

I guess sometimes i'm a story editor.

I don't know.

I'm a screenwriter, I'm sure runner.

I love the show.

Titles Ago for you.

And I'm and I'm I'm watching the show again.

Although it's been a long time, I forgot a lot of things from season one, but things are starting to come in to focus.

Let me just say, oh, I saw I saw moments when things clicked for you in this episode.

I saw your face, I know, and then I.

Was like Then I was like, no, I'm gonna still pretend to be surprised because I want to like make sure Galli and Gus think I don't know what's going on.

I was not looking at the cameras at all.

I'm sorry.

I was looking at the show and nothing else.

By the way, if for the people at home when we record these, we can't really see Jenny and Jen during the video.

They are a tiny box.

I can box in the corner one of you.

The other one is like literally this big.

And yeah, I'm still acting.

I'm still acting.

Just listen killing just in case I'm guss.

By the way, I'm losing my goddamn mind.

This is my first time and watching the show and this is really good.

And actor by the way.

And Diam Zathras.

A streamwriter and a and an actor.

And it's my first time watching Babylon five.

It's my first time with Zatras.

I love him, brings I demand the people want Zathras.

What a guy?

Hie so chill, Yes, love Zavarath.

It was the dawn of the streaming age, where fandoms gather and deep dives flourish.

Four friends bound by a shared love of stories, embark on a journey to a legendary space station.

Two veterans of the ancient television wars revisiting a familiar battlefield, two newcomers eager to explore its mysteries and unravel its secrets, and a canine companion, ever watchful, ever present, their mission to boldly go where many have gone before, armed with wit, wisdom, and the occasional wild theory.

This is the story of Babylon.

The year is twenty twenty five.

The place wherever you get your podcasts.

I should have known when he got excited to see Jeff.

That was I shouldn't know him.

You're young, though, you're not the one.

You're not the one.

No no, no, yeah, you have the scar and you're not older.

He's she's the point five.

Because is a time traveler, he would recognize an aged human.

I think he's not human.

So yeah, I think he was like, oh, wait a minute, this is you before you.

Yeah, you can't you can't go.

You're the one when he's not the one.

Yeah, spill those He's the.

Point five, okay, point five before we keep going.

I just want to get this out of the way.

Uh written by Guesses.

Yeah, that was obvious from the from the band MS and by the fact that it's unbelievably story critical, very very.

Story critical, and it is directed by somebody named Jim Johnston.

But the leader is uh directed previous episodes.

Yeah, he directed.

I sounds important.

Signs importance was what's her name?

Janet?

Janet was Janet.

He's directed, Yes, ies by any means necessary, Survivors.

Parliament of Dreams, and soul Hunters.

So he's directed.

He's got some rippers and also soul Hunter.

Yeah, why are you mean to my boy?

Soul Hunter?

I like, just do it to antagonize you.

Yeah, there are there are a lot.

There's a lot in this episode.

The one thing I will point out from the notes he said this might be the first episode that presents more questions than it enters is literally what you said.

You my God?

Like it answered one question and then like in that answer, we're like, but here's like a but Jillian.

Yeah, here's a little little b.

Everything else was like what the fuck is going on?

But at the same time, I'm sat and present for this episode.

It wasn't a bad like not a bad mood, but I was in like a mid mood before this episode started.

I'm jazzed.

Good now, I'm jazzed.

I'm ready.

My theories are a fly in.

I want to know all of them.

I have not even formulated the crux of these theories at this moment.

I was just yelling stuff during the episode, like I should go through and pick all of that out.

I was just yelling theories when things happened, Old Jeff, like, if you're a charge Len's hand, if you're a Charlie, you really should go and watch this reaction like this one in particular, you really on to go and watch this one.

There was a lot of good stuff happening.

There was a lot.

Okay alone, that was MERI forlanad recognize that voice anywhere watching them?

Wrong?

Oh that's no, that that's that.

If that's not her, then that is the best voice actress ever because that sounded just like her, and I loved like her hand.

The only thing that was weird was that she was wearing red, which feels unusual for her.

Listen, it's apparently.

It's the future and maybe she's going through a red period, right, Okay, okay.

Mike Picasso, you know, I mean of the pink things to talk about this episode, Old Jeff.

Oh, Jeff appears to still be mission critical with a scar.

With a scar mission critical to I what happened?

Really think this is a war against the shadows?

Yes, I really think it is.

Because it talked about darkness.

Yes, because I really really think that because we had a specially had Ian come on for that episode.

I'm like, so that episode was the most important episode of the season, which means.

The Shadows titles so far.

It was the title episode.

Yeah, and also it means that the Shadows are going to be an incredibly important plot element.

And I said that from the beginning.

I was like, we don't introduce space genies and not pay them off.

And also I.

Just likes that one because it's funny.

It's Goofy has to come to that one because it's funny.

Yeah, it's an underwrate.

It's never really likes really, but but also because like Jeff and Mike pop onto the station and the guy starts shooting at them and yelling, I know what you are monsters.

Just suggest that there's the things human look like human batties and d more than batties more it's Jeff Moran and Andrew Garfield more mor than Garfield, more than whatever.

Also also you know, human looking, so human looking.

But also but the and the humans are important enough that the len needs to give up, the like needs to stay.

So they're like the lych pins.

No, they're the lynch pins.

Inviting the Shadow because they evolved to look like them.

Wait wait, wait, wait wait.

You're all waiting.

We evolved to look like them, there's gotta be some reason for that.

Or well, okay, space Genie shape shifter.

I mean it's possible, but wait, space shape shifters.

It makes me more things.

But words, the words?

What if that's like we talked about the Menbari starting the war on like kind of falsish pretenses because they thought that the Shadow was like using Earth as a what a A came?

But what if it was less that and more that, Like there's some kind of evolutionary thing where they're like they're going to evolve into the shadow we talked.

I'm just like, now this feels even more likely, this feels.

Even more probably.

I'm holding onto whatever I care.

The len did mention like evolution and it's just like two million years.

Mantioned, sorry, time doesn't exist.

N what time is a circle?

We calmed the job out.

She was saying, evolution doesn't mention evolution like she's talking about how humans evolved over two million years.

At top business water saying what will we evolve into?

I want to say thank you for giving me everything I need for the thumbnail and thumbnail for the thumbnail.

Now I'm good good, Oh my god.

So we got that.

That's going on Jeff and Mike and Jeff and my and Jeff and Mike in some kind of war where Jeff Mike pulls a predator and he has the gatling gun and he does.

And he's like, I've been waiting my.

Like holy.

Incidentally, when that aired, and this is just from the notes, people were like, oh, is that not a predator?

It was like is that an alien homage?

And Jama says he was not on set this day.

Normally people are not supposed to improvise at all because like every line could be uh, plot relevant, But he was not on set this day, and the director was like, it's just yelling, just yell.

Whatever you want.

So Jerry improvised that.

Yes, yeah, I loved it all right.

I loved it and I don't care.

It was still funny.

It's just yelling whatever.

It was a cool scene, and it implies that there's gonna be big battles in the feud.

We're going war war word here, As Ali said in episode one podcast Sorry podcast that yeah, but I think it's like it's not just gonna be just like regular human type wars.

It's just definitely.

A gladow war against wow becolm.

What we could become could be the borls, could be the shadow.

And Jeff Jeff was trying to chase.

Hiding Jack hiding.

Jed.

J Jan look at the camera ja Ja read.

Wargains when we could be calm, it's our potential future.

We're fighting our potential future.

That's why we're so important.

That's it.

We stared the dodge again, sham j.

Jay.

Isn't a war against what we become infectious?

Your enthusiasm is god to the enthusiasm?

Is it a organs?

What we could become, jen Jan is becoming paink like a strawberry.

Jean, I blushed really easy.

If you say blush, blush, you're not blaming your roseation.

Jet and actually Jet flirt on stage.

Yeah, he starts blush and he gets all pink, which.

Is like exactly what people want.

They're like, you can blas the man perfect.

Actually yes, it's literally perfect.

Doesn't Other things that we could talk about.

We could talk about the fact that we're about to fight our future selves because because because because because because Jeff went back in time to try it altered the future and was bombed.

I know, but someone that didn't explain that to Jeff.

But Jeff was like, hey, oh that's why Jeff got shocked to you can't touch your futures out that that's not how life works.

And then and then he got and then he was trying to stop it, right.

He was like, I try to rewrite the past or whatever, but it just happened the way that I thought I.

Couldn't happen, the way I rememberer it.

Wait, what year was that?

Thris?

What year was after?

His world?

His world?

He doesn't mean anything literally information.

He's bad at math.

He's bad at math.

He's using the Jewish calendar.

Okay, because I was trying to think the Jewish calendar is way beyond that.

It's something.

Yeah, it's already I'm.

Just saying, but it's like with no frame of reference.

To I just wanted to be like I know that, but yeah, so I am knowledge, so.

Okay, okay, wait, wait, wait, okay, go ahead.

No, okay, I didn't really actually have any excited I was just trying.

To see, okay, you forget, you've got your theory about future human shadow Vorlon Casmo, Cosmo, how do you say.

That, Jenny, I'm just kidding.

I'm sorry, I'm just kidding.

We don't deserve you.

Stop that.

I don't know, but if we could see her, I will not stop you.

Can you make your avatar blush like an avatar blush blushed moment?

I can't.

I don't know how to.

I don't know how to do that.

Yes, money for my avatarp these.

I want gloves because the leap motion sometimes does weird stuff in my hands.

Anyway, tend sorry exactly, any thoughts about any more thoughts about and.

He thoughts about Zathras, every thought about I will be naming my child Zathris.

This is great.

Zachris definitely isn't gonna fucking die because old Jeff came back because he knew ol Jeff wouldn't leave him because old because Jeff, because Jeff, you can always count on Jeff's name.

Jeff is the guy's.

Name is now p D Solo Zathris.

Right, it makes perfect sense.

Jeff is the one.

He's the one.

There's that Jeff is.

The one, and he's the one.

For Delenn, He's den Oh Yeah, Delenn got elected pope and yeah, Len.

I guess but wait, wait, wait, wait wait, I think we've all but confirmed at this point that she and Jeff are an item.

They gotta be.

They gotta be the be.

They're an item on the grocery list, that's for sure.

A I do like that.

Then turned out turned down the popeish Zatris.

Okay, Disatris is difficult to say anything specific about what it's.

Yeah, he.

Seems to be.

He puts the mission first because if the Shadows win everything, then everything sucks.

That's interesting to come after the last episode where we had that whole principle of sentient life being self.

Sacrificed, willing to sacrifice for a cause.

Huh.

They need Babylon for some reason.

They need to have Babylon.

Big ass space station, but.

They like what's wrong with Babylon five.

They got Babylon four when it was the new one.

Yeah, that is bigger, is bigger than five?

Yeah.

I will also say there's something I've been meaning to match, and it was in the notes for this episode.

So it's not spoilery or anything.

It's just all of the Babylon stations, like the verse three were built kind of in rapid succession, and they were pretty high tech.

And then Babylon four was built and it's pretty high TechEd.

And then Babylon four disappears.

And the reason that.

One, two and three were able to be built so quickly and we're able to be high standards is because they.

Just reused the materials for them.

Babylon four disappeared with all of the materials, which is why Babylon five is a little less.

It's as you put it in the very first episodes, like it's held together with duct tape.

It is.

Then the others, Yeah, and.

It's got orphaned in the down below dealing Babylon four.

Babylon four didn't have any orphans.

I saw Naran people on it.

That was in three hundred people on it.

Yeah, yeah, last time it was twenty five.

Well okay, but that makes a lot of sense.

It had an average public high school on it.

Yes, that's true.

Still pretty pretty good, but it's like you'll know, like you'll just see and Jenna and I talked about this before.

It's it's not as.

Clean and as like it still feels like it's construction, like there's you know, right, it looks like there's staffolding everywhere.

Yeah.

Well, the corridor, I mean, we have the corridor that shows up in every episode.

That on four was gigantic and it had bigger solar sale kind of.

I know it's on solar sale, bigger uh panel type Yeah things.

Uh it is.

God, it's big and it's gohol and I like it.

I'm glad it showed up.

But now it's gone and that's okay.

We had it for a minute and that was nice.

Yes, And I'm sure it'll never come up again.

I'm sure it'll never be again.

Oh, Jeff has Babbylon for in the future with Zathrus.

This is just a show with a lot of one offs.

There's no penuity, there's no big comptureld it.

Yeah, it's like in Men in Black when Earth is a marble or whatever is.

Old Jeff is starting to sound like a spice to me, Like old Bay.

You know what, you know what, We gotta go with old reliable, old Jeff, Like.

Wait, do I have lady the tramp toys right here?

Get a punch to your meal?

Ah, hold on, hold on, I got it.

Wait, that's a merch we need to we need.

That on the T shirt Old Jeff, Old Jeff, there we go.

We got our first merch.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you start making a list and I'll make it happen.

Okay, okay, I just on Canva.

List of some questions here.

Oh okay.

So the len was given something at the end, a triangle to go.

With Rye luminary luminary.

Yes, there were triangles all over the set.

I couldn't but notice that they were shire Yeah.

Yeah.

Were they opening the the ship in a triangle shape too?

Was that a thing?

No?

They were just actually in the flash buff Yeah.

I thought it was like a I think that's.

Just the easiest.

It was an arch.

I'm just putting it out there.

I'm just trying to notice everything.

Gus.

Okay, I'm trying to put on my detective goggles.

Well, here's the thing.

Why would have detective goggles?

I don't know, I'm putting them on.

Here's the thing, triluminary.

There's three of them, he said, we have two more.

Which makes sense because it's the other two.

Because try they have them and they're chilling, and they're gonna let her have one of them.

What the fuck does that thing do?

I have no we can't begin to I guess, yeah, I have no idea, but it has light in it.

So luminary is light.

Wellhy don't you know that.

I was thanking you?

Uh.

Liminary means you know, a bringer of light or some well something like that.

And so it is one of three things to bring light and light casts like it's rid of shadows.

So it has to be some kind of anti shadow thing.

And they were like, if you're right, you'll need this more than we will.

Ali is going to melt down if I don't let her say what she's trying to say.

It was exactly that I just got there at the same time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, So it's gotta be like an anti anti shadow drinking juice, anti shadow juice.

And they call and they call this group the light the light.

No, they're the gray.

Oh my god, they're gray.

They stand between the light and the dark.

Oh my god.

Oh what they said the war of the light against the dark darkness?

Well light kind of No, that's what they said darkness.

They said light.

They said the words light, they said the word they said, I said light.

I'm going to I'm going to ship.

Have never been this excited about the episode.

Because I swear to God, they said light they they did, they did, but.

They did light.

I was gonna say, Zathras said it, yes, So yeah, so that's Triluminari.

Okay, priluminary is an anti shadow anti shadow box.

Uh for other questions, please keep coming.

I could just.

Yeah, so Delenne and not a closet guy.

But the other Great Council member were like, I feel a change coming in my bones.

It's the shadows.

It's the shadows are coming.

Uh.

Yeah, it's the Shadows are coming.

There's going to be another as well.

It's a big fucking war that there.

Old Jeff and Zathras are fighting on Babylon four.

Bad things are coming because it's all been under the surface for a long time, I think, And now it's not.

By the way, I was wrong with the bebel on four.

Got you inked by the shadows guy yanked by the good guys.

Apparently we'll come back to that in season three.

All right, But we were close.

We were close.

They got you got four, the bad guy fighting the Shadows.

We were so close.

We were so close.

Oh what if Babylon's one, two, and three got destroyed, sabotaged by the same guys, so they could have Babylon four ready because they were like not big enough, not big enough, not big enough for.

It got they got to destroyed the shadow that also joinked for before it could get destroyed by this.

My original thought was the shadows destroying through three.

But now, but now there's possibility that the Light sabotaged it for the purposes.

Of Bigger one.

And then Jeff on the fifth and the Minbari put Jeff on the fifth because he's a crystalis He's an egg and he has a destiny.

Because he's a crystalist.

He's a crystalist, not an I'm not saying egg in the gender identity sense, saying he's a literal chrystals egg.

Is he the egg that Stephen gives to the little boy.

Who maybe he might be?

What was it?

Glop it?

Egg?

It goes all the way to the egg.

Do I remember glop it?

I don't know what you remember?

Your brain is a steel trap.

Anybody's name, I didn't remember what was What was the guy's name, mister potato Head's name?

I don't know him, Daniel.

Remember I didn't?

I just repeat it after them.

Okay, here's the thing.

This is why people think you're shorter than you are.

By the way, I like because.

I live in that right now.

You live in that slouch.

It's just fine, be comfortable.

I'm not all day you were saying something.

I just get shorter and shorter as of the day goes.

It's true, Alaska question.

Although I think I know what your answer is going to be.

But before I asked the question, many of a little behind the scenes thing.

The suit that the one was wearing.

Did it?

Did you guys realize this one?

Yes, yes you did, but I don't know why I did look familiar.

Oh two thousand one Space one?

You got it?

You got it?

Literally read it.

That's it.

I was trying too high watching that movie, I did.

I were watch.

It was anyway.

So the question somebody sent in was the one suit was very similar to the suits in two thousand and one, and he writes, he writes back, yes, read the suit.

That wasn't an intentional two thousand and one nod.

We went to Modern Props to get a space suit for Babylon Squared, and the only one they had on hand that would work for us was one left over from twenty ten, which I asked the folks and costume to change as much as possible, though it was pretty much what it was regardless, So that wasn't That one wasn't intentional.

I love it so hard.

It's such a like it's a you.

Gotta go to modern props, like what you know, it's.

About to drop some stuff up at modern props.

Actually, so maybe you guys, maybe somebody using modern props will actually get some things that I donated.

There you go, yeah, there you go, liketycle hand the hand prop room.

That one's great too, like.

We truck our way over there whenever we need to rent anything.

Yes, they're great.

Yeah, So okay, So that that's what that suit was.

And I guess you saw him take off the helmet, but you're pretty sure that was Jeff in the suit.

We're pretty sure it was Jeff.

It was his face.

What are you doing?

Don't be silly?

What are you?

Yeah, no one got out.

The one got out in the suit, and old Jeff was like, this looks comfy as hill.

I look, it was Jeff.

I'm pretty sure it was Jeff.

If it wasn't Jeff, I'm calling Jeff.

Wouldn't it don't be silly.

Yes, don't mess with us.

It's not nice to mess with your friends.

It's all we do on this podcast lighting mess with you, and that's with my wife constantly.

Yeah, that's true.

I'm trying to.

I'm kind of trying to come up with something funny for Jenn and Jenny I.

Was like gender gap and I was like, no, that's no.

General lyaing Jen Squire, I like that.

Do you think we'll see Babylon four again?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

If we don't, I'm if we don't, I'm we.

Are one hundred percent again because this is old ass.

Jeff took it for his his thing for the war, and the war is going to be the plot going forward.

So yeah, can you if you think we're going to see it again, do you have a prediction of like when we got seasons of the show.

Not before season three.

We need a little time to cool down, we need time to warm up.

There's like thirty episodes in season two.

I know, I know we need time to cool down.

Because thirty episodes is not enough.

Twenty two episodes.

Yeah, so how we were used to watching TV.

It's a lot for you right now, but this is how we were used.

To watching TV.

Jams also, I'm sorry, I no, that's it.

Jams also waited to introduce Beeblin for coming back until almost the end of season one, right, and I don't.

I think we'll get a nod to it.

It'll be mentioned, but I don't think.

We don't want the American public to forget and they're very forgetful.

Yeah.

I don't think we're going to see it, but because it did come up.

In I think end of season two will get something.

It came up in Grail and that was like four episodes ago.

Yeah.

So yeah, Thomas Lucky Jink, someone.

Watches all of season two is about Bablo anyway, would be so good.

That I think we'll say again, because think it's gonna be really important.

I think it's gonna be I think it's something about it is going to be really important.

It's it's essential in our war against the Shadows.

We stole it for the future time war against who we might become for just cousin, We're we're gonna talk about that again.

That's again came back in a flashback.

What the fuck.

Do you want to talk about?

These flash forwards?

Flash Less part of the Less part of the Mars resistance, less part of the Mars resistance.

I've never been more sure about it.

But wasn't she wasn't last episode, so.

She says, So, she says, she jumps up in to get.

Caught in a crossfire getting food.

Why was she so insistent on staying and her life there?

Okay, she wasn't like, I've got a family here, I've got what.

No, she doesn't, now she does, now she didn't.

Then the oh, why was she so committed to her stuff on Mars.

She didn't bring up like my grandma's here and she's got you know, shingles.

She was like, I we have have a live here.

She was very vague about what that life was very vague, And she just happened to get caught in a crossfire trying to get food.

Maybe just happened to be a civilian who got shot and then got medical attention.

Maybe how like clearly marked are these Mars resistance people?

It is funny that she will I don't know, like I maybe.

I'm back on the Mars resistance.

Lease has a new lease on resistance.

All right, all right, hurt yourself with your eyes cling.

They'll get stuck that way, Thank you, Gus.

I have to I have to say that something.

JMS did actually answer something for me.

Okay, I said multiple times when we were watching it, where's the triangle?

I want to see the triangle in our head?

Where's the triangle?

Yes, and he does say, he does say, why no triangles on the Council's heads.

Well, the triangle is one element of the Gray Council symbology.

It is not present and visible at all times and under all circumstances.

It has a particular purpose or meaning.

The triangle only manifests itself for specific reasons at specific times, neither of which were appropriate to that moment.

It's a shadow related thing.

No no, no, no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no, because because Delenn had it when they were talking to Jeff, because they thought maybe shadow shadows was the shadows showed up when Andre gar Field is in the room and it showed up.

No no no yes, yes yes no yes yes yes no no yes no yes yes.

But when the guy came out of de Len's closet.

He also yeah, because because because.

There was no shadows in there.

He was talking about Jeff.

But the shadows were on the ship.

No they weren't.

No, they weren't.

That's a different episode.

That was the jeffisode.

Jeff never one.

Is it Jeff related because he's the one.

He is the one, but could be Jeff.

But then why would it come out for Andrew Garfield.

Because Jesus the bad guy, because he don't usually come up for anti Jeff.

Jeff is Jeff drank shadow hurting juice.

So Jeff is the anti shadow.

Okay, yeah, she's not constantly walking around.

Yeah, yeah, because he's the one.

Okay.

I just like that's cool looking, and I would like went on my head.

There's it's slated, but it's shadow related.

There's things it's shadow related.

It's just, oh my god.

He said neither of those things apply its specific time and specific What did he say in the thing?

Specific specific things and specific things?

What did he say?

He said?

He said the triangle only manifests itself for specific reasons at specific times, neither of which were appropriate to that moment.

Okay, So it wasn't two things, specific reasons and specific times.

That's like the most generic answer.

It's to a question multiple times.

I think it's like shadow dramatic because I think the Minbari are just theater kids and they're just like, this is dramatic.

My triangle comes out.

Off their spotlights.

It's Jeff related.

It's absolutely incredible.

It might be just related.

Everything is Jeff related.

Jeff is the fucking lynchpin of this fucking season.

Man, Like everything is about Jeff.

He's the only person who's been in every single episode.

He's the one.

He's the reason why they didn't destroy or Jeff is hot like the Jeff Jeff def Jeff show.

He's the guy.

You have a guy.

You're a white man leader, you had to have him.

Okay, I have two other things I want to bring up.

One they just any thoughts, not really much thoughts you can have at this point.

But there they kept saying in the in Valen's.

Name, it's their god.

I think, yeah, you were saying, it's like.

A pronouns a valance ELECTRONN.

I think chemistry is a long time ago.

But a valance electron is the electron on in the outermost I don't remember the right word for it.

Orbits essentially, they called valances the orbits.

Yes, I think you're right.

It's Internet called zak right now.

Is an electron in the outermost valance or outermost orbit that can bond to another You can be used to bond to another.

Uh.

Yeah, it's the number of number of chemical bonds at each auttom of a given chemical element typically forms.

Yeah, but valence electron is a specific thing, isn't it.

Yeah?

I think Okay, I just like you were talking, and at that point you were talking to each other, so it was quiet, so I was wondering if you made any connection.

No, it's fine, but because I'll hear it when I'm editing, it'll be fine when I'm editing.

I just couldn't tell if you were making a connection between the name and whatever.

Oh no, we were, Okay.

Electrons and the outermost shell of an atom that can participate in the formation of a chemical bond if the outermost shell is not closed.

But that's those are the only ones that can leave and go to another.

Right should be shared between atoms, So Valen must be.

I mean it sounds like a god because they're saying Valen is an individuals name.

In Valen's name, But if you're tying it to Valens, which, like you know, that's a pretty close.

That's pretty flack and close.

It seems like he's like the god of like diplomacy or like connectivity, or like there's some individual that is important for inner species cooperation.

That is vain Man.

It's also a Latin name meaning strong and healthy.

It's also a place in Norway.

Well, I'm sure the Norway one is the most relevant one.

So they're gonna have loot fist and Jeff he's going to gonna go and look at the Fuords and think about how much he likes his wife.

Sorry, okay, his wife, speaking of Delenn.

Another thing you said, I'm just looking at notes that I was taking while you while we were watching.

While we were screaming over the episode.

Yes, while you were screaming over the episode.

I don't remember what point, but you said, oh, maybe Nera Furlong is the one that leads.

Because one of the things you said the very first reaction we recorded was one thing you know.

Yes, and I'm not confirming or denying it, but the one thing you said, do you think you know is that there's a major actor from the show who leaves.

Yeah, I had heard that a major a main cast departs after season one.

I hope it's not fucking Jeff.

If it's Jeff, Jeff's the one man.

I know, I'm like, that's the that would be the only person where I'm like, oh man, he's.

Really hard, really really really hard.

Sorry, but what were you going to say, Jenny?

I was gonna say, like, I can't remember.

I wish i'd actually made a note of when you say, oh, it was when they were voting to send her away.

So okay, that was it.

Okay, okay, okay, you still think that that's a possibility or.

Not anymore, because well, yeah, it depends on if I don't really know anything, and I don't want to start speculating wildly about people's lives, But it depends on if if the departure was planned or not.

Because if it was a planned departure, then I could see j MS changing things towards the end of season so that a character is an offering, and so when all of a sudden they introduced de lenn might be leaving Babylon five for a more important position where she's still really relevant, I was like, oh, maybe Mari Forlana had to off ramp and this is how they're doing.

But now I don't think so, but it occurred to me at the time like that.

Then he put her hand in the thing.

Yeah, then he put her hand in the thing.

So she's there at the end with Jeff.

So that's kind of important.

I think, here's.

The woman that was totally not the last shoulder.

I was in my mind the Clinton said put her hand in the thing.

I literally started thinking about Dune and I was like, that didn't happen here when she put.

Her right hand in.

She took her right hand out, sure, left hand whatever, and then get and then uh.

No, but hurts me that, Okay, I you know, I just I look out for you.

Here's what I think, knowing how TV and film works and how crazy things are all the time.

It's Jeff.

And that's only because that would be the most chaotic thing that could happen.

But this is the thing about TV and film.

It's just that's how it happens.

It's like, oh, we can't lose this guy.

Proceeds to lose that guy and you have to just figure that shit out.

You told us, Sorry, Jen, go ahead, that's.

My that's my serious.

You're saying like circumstantial because of film and TV, like an actor doesn't come back versus like the Ned Stark of it all.

Like you're not saying, yeah.

No, I'm saying I'm saying that like someone had to leave and it's him because like I don't know, he wanted more money or something like it something, because like that is just how.

Film and TV works.

It's just like you try rooting someone to the ground for five years, like it It's just not like it's hard to do.

That's what I wanted to say.

And we're getting ahead of ourselves, I know, but hate the beginning.

You talk about trap doors and you said James had trap doors for everybody, and I can see trap doors for almost everybody, but yeah, exactly except except yeah, exactly exactly.

And as I'm like, it's the most chaotic option, and that's why I'm voting.

I don't want to I don't want it to be jefuineff.

I know how chaotic this industry is, and that's why I'm also.

I am not in any way confirming or denying that that happens.

I know.

I'm just saying that that's how this industry works.

Is that like whatever can go wrong and does go wrong, it's.

Murphy to law most mission critical to their individual Personhood's characters on the show right now are definitely yeah, right, okay, for sure, there's I I have like in my head scales of how how much of a catastrophe it would be if if somebody had to leave.

They're they're in the just slightly.

But yes, Jen, sorry.

I detailed you.

I was just gonna say.

And we've already had new telepath.

Yes, we've had a new UH command number one doctor, a new doctor.

Doctor, and we should have a new doctor because that man should not have a medical license.

He does not deserve his medical license.

But what I'm just gonna say is that we have already shifted those three characters.

So in terms of trap doors, I feel like he was just like after the pilot, he was like a fucking writing trap door.

And for everybody.

He pitched five seasons.

And people are going to leave.

I mean, people are going to get jobs, are gonna how of waiting circumstances.

We're gonna get pregnant.

A show with a lot of women, strong woman characters, people are gonna get pregnant.

You can't always hold a pillow on a space station.

Computer they got they just carry around all.

By a computer.

Yeah, you can't always do what they do on Deep Space nine and write it in mm hmmm, yeah anyway, Sorry.

I always feel like that's the best option, just write it in.

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you can't anyway.

I don't think I have any more specific questions.

You guys have popped off with your theories.

I love this show so much, do you.

I love this episode so much.

I think may may well be my favorite episode yet.

It has dethroned the Titan infection.

No, I don't know what will my favorites be so far, this one.

Mine is the shadow signs importance.

My eyes is up there.

T KO.

Yeah yeah, yeah, it was pretty good.

Yeah yeah.

Then the Strike one was pretty good.

Those two were both really good.

The two party was great.

The same echon it was really good.

I don't think it was quite crazy level for me.

This This one went insane.

It went so insane that I jumped out of my couch and broke the soundboard for a second.

But I have to say, I love how much you're loving this episode.

But we were missing some born to the Purple.

I know it did occur to me.

You loved it and not like Londo didn't even exist in this episode.

That's how much.

Wow.

Yeah, Talia, I gotta tell you again when I'm talking about I have a list in my head last yeah, it's been when I have a list in my head of people who could leave without fucking everything else over Londo.

Londo's s tirestop.

He's literally jo stop for me.

Stop.

I'm not saying that I would devastated.

He's s here for how upset it would be.

I would rather lose Jeff.

I'm gonna be very honestly.

But he's like be here in terms of we could keep this going.

I would give up Jeff and Delenn to keep Londo.

And that is on god, oh god, Now I hope neither have died or something like that.

Sob oh my gosh, that would.

Be just that would be just like me though, to be like God, I'd rather I rather.

They take away.

And then it's like something so serious, stop talking about how you job.

I thought it was a man.

I thought it was a mad.

Oh no, the camera was made.

I would never have said that if I knew that she was a woman.

I would never reach very.

Minutes the camera.

I said, it was so great, the camera shake.

It was like, as if your whole world was like Earth.

Quick plan that cinematically, or.

I would be hard to lose any of them.

I would be upset.

I'm going to be upset no matter what.

If somebody will I hope everyone's lying and nobody believes, and we get Takashima back.

I would still be upset.

I would still be upset at this point, me too.

Yeah, because Tashima likes morning.

Do you can tell she's a morning person and I don't want.

To Yeah, why don't we bring Takashima back, give her the morning shift?

Perfect?

I love perfect.

I would love the world in which I can have them both, Takashima, Honabs.

It's not too mixing it now, not too mixing.

No, I'm mixing that.

You don't know what that means.

I don't care.

Two mixes an episode of Like.

When Didn't know what Hentai was?

No, and it's not Fontana to the two fixes.

An episode of Voyager where two.

Characters get choosed.

It's not the worst episode.

That's the one where Jane Way and Paris turning to.

Oh my god, conte right now?

Yeah, too much and to.

Merge into one being and.

Transport the transport malfleiction, isn't it of course always?

But anyway, sorry Takashimavanva, we can ship it.

Why should shall my On and Delenn be the only gay couple on the show.

That's exactly right.

Yeah, you know, I wish they were.

I know they're not.

Whatever, because it's the nineties.

It's the nice we don't get our days space space gas.

We don't get.

Space.

We don't get space gays in the nineties.

Space.

Now I have pigs and Space in my house here like days.

I don't know, I don't understand that reference.

You know, the Muppets, Muppet Show.

Oh my god, but I miss that.

Recurring, recurring like segment on the Muppet Show.

Fuck watch all of them, because you will watch all of the Muppet Show when you will be hilarious.

I have watched all seasons.

I just watched Space.

Just like google pigs and Space and watch as many episodes of it as you can.

You're gonna love it so hard because it's also like a play on like tell shows from that time, and like hospital shows.

Just I mean, it's not not hospital show, but just like the whole like cheesy shows at the time.

Yeah, I don't have any other specific questions for you, do you, Jen, I don't.

I don't want to about this episode for but I need to go to the gym.

I know you do, yes, but the show is but I need to go to the gym.

I just started working with a trainer, and I cannot fail her on day one.

Yes, that would be that.

Yeah.

I was like, I was like, I'm a workhorse, I like work so hard blah blah blah, and I cannot then follow that up with failing on day one.

That is not acceptable behavior.

No, no, So okay, then I think we will I kick you out, and.

We will put on our robes and our triangles and.

Well only for special occasions apparently.

Oh that's right.

We won't put on our triangles just right or.

Maybe you specific times and specific moments.

Where's the shadow.

Maybe they put on the triangles when we're fucking wrong about stuff and we've been bullshitting for the past hour and everybody thinks that we're dumb as hell.

That's what happened.

I actually think Jan all pink.

So I'm feeling like I.

Don't pretty well maybe nail a couple.

I think I think I nailed something to the walls, to the window and the wall.

That's why I'm.

Just I'm thinking about it.

I'm turning to pink again right now.

Just I see not even what you said.

Just about that song.

You don't want to about the sweat Nope, anyway, okay.

No, we don't need to go that far.

Hen Ti.

Don't look out, do not doogle, not google that.

I want you to know safe search that one time when Gus and I were in the parthenon Paris in Paris, in Paris, and we turned her out and there was a guy and Jen you still don't know what this means, but Jenny will understand.

He was wearing a shirt jersey.

It was a jersey and it.

Said hen Ti sixty nine on it, and both of us are like, what a choice to wear at the part and not in Paris.

Why we took a picture?

I never take pictures of strangers, but we did take a picture.

I was like, this man wants someone to take his picture, Like you don't.

You don't want that kind of ship.

And you think like, oh I no one notices me, like you know what I mean, Like that's not what happens.

So I was like all right, and we took a picture Joseph's back, but we were just like, this is so classless.

And if you're out there listening, we thought you were really classless.

But I want you to know that, from the bottom of our arts, we judged you that day really hard, and we're not judgmental people, like we are not judgmental people.

If you are listening, please tell us in the comments.

Please tell us though, Yeah, we want to hear from you.

We want to hear from you.

Yes, yes, because maybe he's changed.

I'm not inviting that.

Yeah, if you've changed, only only tell us if you've changed significantly as a person.

Yes, all right, I'm on that note.

Goodbye, my friends, you have reached them most than as part of our journey the Gray Council.

Here we speak of things that must not be spoken, secrets, betrayals, spoilers.

If you are not ready, turned back now.

But if you dare to proceed, I promise you it will be manificent.

Mister get Abaldi, Oh.

My god, Wow, it's a good episode.

It is a good episode.

It's great and it's funny because I didn't even think about it until until that's the talking about how much you loved it.

I was like, there's no Londo.

You didn't even occur to me.

No London, no tell.

You no, no, Shekar no Stephen, Nope no, no, barely any Ofvnova.

But she's there.

But he's there for comic relief.

Yeah, she's like there.

That funny scene and at the end, yes, like she's she does that open the button?

Yeah.

Yeah, So I wanted to read this, And then I remember what we talked about before when we said, let's not like give them too many spoilers, because this is such a spoilery Lurker's guide, knowing that there were still two more episodes coming, which he does say are his favorites JMS does and then but he just said, talking about Delenne, I kind of have to play fair with the story.

If you hear Delenn's voice, then you can be sure it's Delenne.

Yeah.

And then he does a period return, so there's a space between the next sentence and then this one sentence by itself in one form or another period.

I'm like, oh my.

God, you are such a jerk for like dropping that at people.

It's hilarious.

I love it.

I love it.

He's so trolling, not trolling, but in a good way.

He's just that's great.

Yeah, that's great, okay, because yeah, that that is definitely de Lenne's hand.

It is not Jeff in the suit though.

I mean, obviously it's Jeff in the suit at the end, but that's that's fucked Sheridan.

It's Sheridan in the suit.

And so I like they got mad at me when I asked because it sounds like a stupid question because the show seems to answer it m m, but it's not.

I was not bullshitting them.

Yeah, no, it's a totally different person.

Yeah.

And he doesn't say in Zathne Zathne doesn't zathrinths Sathris doesn't say when he says I knew you wouldn't leave me behind, he doesn't say you're the one, the one, you're back.

He just says, I knew you wouldn't leave me behind exactly.

Also, uh, I gay because it made me laugh when uh Gus was like Jeff's the one and then Ali was like, de Lenz the one.

I'm like, you're both right, because there's three the ones.

It's all about triangles and threes.

John's the one, Jeff's.

The one, and de Lenz the one, they're both.

It's it's the Trinity.

They're the Holy Trinity of Babylon five.

So he even says he even says that, like Jay must drop some of that too in here, because he.

Says, it's really silly.

It's so spoilery, it's so spoilery.

So if you don't want to be spoiled for the next two episodes, well no, if you're listening to the Great councilor you better know what's going on.

He says, Uh, can I read it?

Can I read it?

Yeah?

Okay, he says, read Sinclair as the one.

Funny how all this time, very few folks have really commented much on how it was that Zathrus could look right into Sinclair's space and say, not the one, Yeah, not the one one right, because I was like, he's like because he's literally saying, it's not you.

And I was like, as soon as he said it's not you, I'm like, that's shared.

But that's who he was when he was thinking of with mom.

And then there's something else he says too about it.

He says about the one he said, what is the thing he says about Delenne And oh, so who is the one?

Some of the evidence points to Sinclair, but other bits seem to indicate Delenne, yet neither seems to fit all the facts above.

And then he writes again, like space return space exactly period return space.

What you have here in your message are two pieces of the puzzle.

You confin by the fact that somehow they don't quite seem to fit into one another.

That's because there's one last piece missing in this part of the picture, which fits in between them.

The intent is to put this piece into clear view in year three, probably between episodes eight and eleven approximately.

Wow.

I mean that's impressive.

So that's me just saying at that point the question of the one will be fully answered.

And uh yeah, this is like so clearly they knew, they knew how they were helping to write Michael Harra.

Yeah, they must have been this point because yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because he wouldn't have had that at that point.

Yes, although there is something in this Lurkers guide that makes me think I can't remember, oh because that's a really long Lurkers guide.

Oh, because he mentioned something about I think in the Lurkers Guide he mentioned something about the station being taken to the future, which was the original plan.

Now, the I will say somebody did answer this question for me in the comments, which was that the Lurkers Guide was assembled as the show was airing, so it's not like after the fact people went.

So some of these comments might have been made earlier than at this time, Like some of the comments might be from him like six episodes ago talking about a future episode.

So maybe at that point he thought that Babylon four was going to the future, but it's not, it's going to the past.

So I wasn't sure, Like it's hard to literally just the Lurkers Guide literally is just pulling jms's comments from forums.

That's what it is, is, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh right.

So they're not all from like one particular exact second, like like exactly him answering a question from this forum, him answering a question from a different forum.

Compiled and they're put in the episode that he was talking about at that time.

So he might mention that Babylon Squared in an episode, like you know, previous episode where he's like, oh, a future episode, I'm writing Babylon Square blah blah blah blah blah, Like yeah, that's yeah, how that.

Gets or in response even to something from later if somebody asked a question about it from before, but what happened in Babylon Square blah blah blah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, so that's how it is it put together.

But yeah, so I would imagine at this point they didn't know that what was happening there.

I had this one is I've never done it.

I do want to eventually watch this episode and then the episode and guts nailed it.

Season three is when Babylon four comes back.

He was season three, he said it, like so automatically, I'd like to watch them back to back because apparently they match almost exactly.

Like there's a couple of things that had to change because of just because like the original plan, you know, and three years in between.

But yeah, apparently they match really really well.

So yeah, so good.

Obviously, the huge conversation we had about it is Jeff Leaves, that is going to be destabilizing for the show.

But they do it so well, and I like, we're going to have to explain it to them.

I think I feel like it's we can't.

I think it's almost a dishonor to Michael O'Hare's memory to not mention why he left, But I will say I was We were talking in my discord and there were some people asking when people who.

Were watching the show became aware.

Of why Michael O'Hare left, And I know for myself, I didn't become aware of the like Jamas didn't expose it until like twenty twelve after Michaelhare's death.

So the first time I watched the show, I assumed it was the original plan, and it works so fucking well that it feels like it must be the original plan.

And I kind of I kind of wish that Gus and Ally could experience it like that because they're going to like not you know, they're gonna know that it's reworked, but not knowing that at the time just felt like, Oh, I can't believe he put those pieces into place, like it's.

Yeah, And in a way I feel like I blew it because I think I might have been the first one to bring up the trap door idea, like and just mention that he'd written trap doors, and well, I just worry that, like if, because it's sort of why I was pushing them on the question of Ali, are you saying that if it were Jeff it would be because of Hollywood reasons, or are you saying it's like a Ned Stark thing?

Because that was so groundbreaking in many ways.

I mean people were like, what the what, Like this is the main character of the show, how did you just kill him at the end, you know, before season one ended?

And yeah, you know that's a very Georgia R.

Martin thing, but like it was, people didn't expect that, and so that's kind of why I was trying to like push her on that, like, oh, are you saying that that was like, that's going to be a choice.

I do.

I wish they also could, but I think they probably also just they're savvy Hollywood people, like they know that back in that day, it was very unlikely that you were going to take your money, yeah, your main character and say we're shelving him.

So I do think that there's they'll clue into that regardless.

Yeah, it was like trap doors were brought up in the very first episode.

I don't know who brought them up, but Gus did say, like it was Gus, So it wasn't you that that, Like Gus did say that was one thing that he'd heard.

So we made in response to that, So I said I feel like we have to talk about it.

But it was such a revelation when it happened the first time I watched it, Like that was so cool the way, and it was still very impressive to think that Jmus was able to work the story that way, like we'll put it, put it back together in a way that I think works so well.

Yeah, and we've talked and also like fitting into the try of everything, the three of everything, the magical three of everything, Eve does end up working out beautifully.

But also yeah, I mean I think and you know, and I've said, like I have seen some episodes from season one in reruns in repeats back then, but I came to the show, I was already a huge Bruce box like that, of course, and yeah, of course, like and so I came to the show like in Sheridan Days, with like it being about Sheridan and knowing that he's clearly a one, the one of all one or the one whatever, and so like in knowing his importance to the story even on a bigger scale, even you know, I think I think it's you know, like when I started watching, it was still like before all of that had been revealed, and he was still just like the captain of B five or whatever, the commander of BE five.

But it was like I knew he was important and I loved him, but I didn't have the full understanding of how season one was not about him at all.

Yeah.

I didn't even really realize that.

At the time.

Yeah, yeah, I was.

Just like, oh, this is a cool story and I missed a bunch, But here he is.

And so it's it's really fun to go back and see it's both fun and also, as you've said, and we both say many times, like it's tragic to know sort of what happened and why it happened, but it is really fun to see this show crafted around a character that they have to recraft the story as they're going.

And you know, jam I is basterful at it.

And you know, it's really interesting because it's one of the things that he says is it's like up in the Lurker's gud all the time.

Oh my god, I have to read the quote because it's even in here he talks about not wanting to steal from Alien, you know, with the Garibaldi thing, and he says, read Garibaldi in the flash forward scene, No, it wasn't any kind of homage to Aliens, and for the most part, Aliens, I should say, not Alien.

And for the most part, I try and stay clear of any kind of homage unless it's primarily a throwaway.

I want my story to be my story, not a bunch of homages.

And I like, so I just have to I have to jump into that, because oh my god, I get it so hard.

And I as a show creator, as a real as a writer.

I mean, my husband and I were writing partners for so long, and I love crafting stories with him.

But I also like, when I get into writing a story, I'm like, I have my own idea.

I know where I wanted to go, and I don't necessarily want other people to like throw ideas at me yet because I'm like, wait, wait, let me get all my stuff up first.

Let me get all my ideas down first, because I don't want to be confused or like have someone else's idea in there.

And so I read that from JMS, and I'm like, of course it's so JMS.

Of course I wanted to be my story.

And I'm like, oh wait, yeah, it's also Jay Like in my middle initial you can leap out the middle of initials or all the initials.

But you know, I was just like, I relate to that so hard and I get it, and I you know, yeah, and so for okay, so that being said for somebody, for JMS who is so like, this is my story.

I see it, I know where it is.

You know.

I teach improv.

I teach improv for writers in fact, and I'm always talking about being able to pivot and like something happens and you you know, you change your story or your characters do something unexpected when you're writing them.

I love that he is like, this is the story.

I see the whole story, this is what it is.

And yet he has these massive changes that he has to facilitate, and he does it with such grace and such like it's not even like, oh damn it, this is the story I wanted to tell and now I can't tell it.

He's just like, Okay, I can still tell the story I want to tell.

I just have to like massage it to make it to be my still be my story, but work.

And it's yeah, we talk about rec counning all the time and like going back and rec hunting a story to fit things.

And sure we all have to do that, and we all, you know, if you have anything that goes beyond a one a two hour movie or something.

But it's great.

He does it with such grace and it's really exciting and he's so masterful at that's all.

I'm going off for a minute, but yeah, I mean he is.

It's it is almost a miracle to me that it works as perfectly as it does, given that Jeff is a Lynch Finn of the show.

Another thing I almost brought this up.

I kept debating and going back and forth during this Okolo I eventually obviously decided not to, but legacies the episode that Ali should have twigged on Talia and the Vanava that the Telepath episode was supposed to be after this episode.

That is the episode where also Delenne uses the triluminary to shut down a bunch of that she uses, and it's supposed to be after this episode because she gets the triluminary in this episode, so they would have made that connection there well.

And Ali and Guss both said something like, oh yeah, it's like a triangle thingy like they meant that.

I feel like they said something here about it being like the thing and I was like, I'm really glad.

Maybe they even I wonder if they re edited that shot or something.

I don't know.

It's far enough away in the in camera, it's a wide shot of that room.

She's just splashes something really quick.

It's so fast, it's really well done.

It can be really well disguised that it happens to be the same thing she was actually given.

Right now, like you really can get you can get away with not telling.

I'm want to go back and watch Legacies now because I want to look at it.

Yeah, yeah, yes, the triluminary I think was like the little thing inside the big triangle because in Legacy and when you see it in Chrystalis because you're seet in cristals, it is a small like it's not a big ass triangle, like it's a small mottle.

Oh yeah, okay, so the thing she was holding, what's smaller and yeah, okay, that makes sense.

And then but honestly, you could like because I couldn't tell if this was like the case for it or if this is the thing, So I think, yeah, yeah, but I think you can kind of you can get around it.

You can kind of Yeah, that'll be cool.

We can talk about that, talk about that with them after after yes, crystals.

Yeah, because I kept beating excites.

I don't want to point it out too much.

But also it is a big deal because it's the thing that turns her okay okay.

And I tried to like bring up the cones of Dunshire again here to see if they made any connections, but they're just like, yeah, oh they're a big fucking deal.

You just.

Deal.

Yeah.

Also, whatever, Ali, Oh my god, whatever.

Ali is sure that I like think that she thinks that she was right about because I was looking down.

I was literally reading the thing about the triangles on her heads.

I was just like, wait, this is the thing.

I'm not going to say it.

Should I say it, i'ld not gonna say it.

So that's like what my whole face is like.

Yeah, And I mean like I love her theory.

It's not right, but.

I love that she thinks I was trying to hide my face to like not tell her like I was just not paying attention.

I just checked out because you were so wrong.

I stopped listening.

I'm like, she's gonna hate me for saying that, but I was like, she's not saying anything important.

I'm gonna read this thing seriously.

Okay, that's good.

In the future.

I'm so sorry.

Yes, we apologize.

It's an interesting theory, Like I like that.

I like that theory of you know, and it's I have heard people suggest that humans turn into Borlan's, Like that is a thing that especially like at the end of season four, there's like a we see a future human go into an NY countersuit, but they're not a Borlon.

It's just humans have a bo to that point where we are now like what the Vorlons were, right, so.

But but not shadows.

It's not that he going to turn into shadows.

No, that's that's never It's never a thing never, not even.

But it's a very interesting possibility.

I think that was the other thing I didn't want necessarily mentioned that because yeah, the Lookers cat fit this one.

And so Swirlery.

Time travel only happens twice in this show, or well, it only happens, it only happens once, but because it's time travel, it only happens twice because it's time travel, right, So we see it twice in this and then we'll see it again in season three.

And because that is different from like Star Trek or or something where time travel is just like once the season we get tachyons and time travel, So this is it, okay, the Len and the Council.

The Len does eventually get kicked off the Council after she transforms into half human.

They're like they become super racist.

And yes, but I couldn't remember if so this was great for me because I again, like when I came into the show, Mirror for Alan was already transformed.

She was already like, she had her hair and stuff.

And I remember then catching an old episode and being like, what the fuck, what is wrong with her?

Where's her hair?

Why didn't she have her hair on?

Like, what's going on?

And so so, when the Council was saying, if you refuse this, something big and big, big and bad it's gonna come.

I mean, you know, they were like, you might never be able to come back, and she's like, I'm not coming back because she probably already knows that she's planning and transforming.

But yeah, but I was like, are they going to tell her you are no longer allowed to be fully mimbari?

You have to go through the thing that we only make criminals go through.

Or something.

I was like, what is this going to be about?

Like I was like, I was like waiting for it, and then I'm like, no, that's not actually what's happening at all.

So this is yeah, it's bad, like eventually, I mean kind of like they like once she transforms the Minbari, it's you know, as somebody of like I am black, but I am light skinned, and I obviously like people always ask.

So it's very strange dealing with things when you like people don't know where to place you and you know, like are you black or are you white?

I just like get, I get the way that people interact with the len feels very familiar, like they're just I don't know what to do with you and where to categorize you in my.

Brain and it's just like people to put people in right.

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's.

My sister, one of my sisters, not the one who's been in my channel, but my other sister taught me a cool term that I'd never heard before.

It's like, I I'm MGM multi generational mixed.

I've never heard that term before, and it's such a good term because that's the quint like which one of your parents is white.

None of my parents are white, but like there's a white person on one on one branch of my family, like or what high let's see, there's one white person on every branch of my family about six generations ago.

That's like basically slavery.

That's where the white people entered in my and then when slavery was abolished, there were no more white people.

How that happened, But that's a whole thing anyway.

I just like the term multi generational mix.

I've never really like, that's so cool.

It's really great, and I like the idea of that just being like sorry shorthand for it's none your fucking business.

Yeah, pretty much, you know, like just like stop.

Somewhere somewhere in there somewhere we're all like, you know, it's just like, yeah, I like that multi generational mix.

In high school, somebody, I mean, I've heard this multiple times, but this was the first time I'd ever heard of Somebody asked me if I was a mixed breed, and I just remember looking at her, and I guess the first time i'd heard that, I.

Was like, I'm not a horse.

What are you talking about?

Right?

Okay?

And I have to say when you as soon as you said that too, like the Share song half Breed just came in my head, which I'm like, I'm only saying it because I'm repeating the name of it, of the song of the song, and Share herself being you know, American Indian and yeah, but like every time it comes on the radio, like should we still be playing this song?

But yeah, because's come from her, of course that's her truth.

Yeah, I don't know.

I can't believe I've heard it since, like multiple people have said it to me.

But like since the first time, I didn't react in anger because I was just what the fuck right, Like I wasn't bred, I was born, Like.

Sure, what that means?

It's so weird.

Wow, anyway, that's a whole other thing.

But that it ties into the de len like the way people, especially them Bari, but also humans, like there's certain humans react her in a way like it's just they don't know what to do with her in their mind and that, but that comes later and she and she does eventually get kicked.

Off the council and it's al yeah, yeah, the whole thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I loved her.

I loved her.

It was a really that was that was We didn't We barely talked about that honestly with Ali and Gus.

But I loved the first I love seeing women pilots, like in the groups it was about to go out, just like with that question.

It wasn't like we're going to talk about them.

There were plenty of them and not just one.

And then I loved de Lenz like, yeah, I'm not going to let you decide my choice for me and my destiny for me and tell me what and they were like, it's a great honor to literally give up everything for the rest of your life.

And we know there were really long lived so however long that's going to be.

It was just I liked her just being.

Like, no, thanks, that's what I'm going to do.

But it's never been done.

Okay, yeah, but I don't know.

It's not spoilery, but yeah.

The Great Council basically spend their entire They do come off the ship like the closet man.

Eventually he went to visit her on the station.

You can leave, but they they govern like they're the governing council of them in Bari.

They govern from a ship and I'm assuming travels back like there must be colonies or something, so that's why they are never.

On a planet.

Yeah, yeah, it's not that is not ever really all that important.

I don't think it's not.

No, but it's that's just a fact.

That's why it's.

But it's also it's yeah, it was interesting.

Like also they're like, we sent you to Babylon five to like do a thang, and we feel like the thang is done.

Okay, yeah, yeah, no, she got to stay there so she can meet John and fall in love with John in like the sweetest romance on television in my opinion, because I love it and it makes me I love.

It so much.

Yeah, ye.

Okay, yeah, I don't know that.

Do I have any other things?

I don't think so.

This episode so good though, Like the major thing is that it comes back season three.

Oh yeah, OBC season three.

See Babylon five again.

I think it's a war without end.

They go to the past Valen.

That's when we find out out a Valen and h oh.

The Valin stuff was pretty cool, like the with the connections that they made the idea of something from outside being put I don't know if that was part of the naming, but.

That works really well with who Valen is.

It was it was, It does work really well.

But I also love that they kind of didn't really put much in it.

Yeah, you know, like I mean in terms of guessinale in there and they're like predictions.

They're just like, yeah, it's just the thing that they there, that they worship whatever.

Yeah, there was no question of like Balen would be somebody we knew.

Yeah, not even no, because see, I guess they're thinking he's from the past, and they're assuming that the time travel goes to the future, which again was the original plan.

I think it works better.

I think going to the past works better because it's really cool.

Uh yeah, I think those are all of my great counselor thoughts cool.

I don't think I have any more.

I don't think so.

Yeah, exactly, other than my my honey, my honey badger.

I love your honey Badger.

That's Zathris, and we will see that Zathris again.

Obviously, we'll see that Zathris again when Babylon five comes back.

But there are going to be other Zathris's Zathras I Zathrus.

Yes, Yeah, I tried to pluralize Zachris like that they're all name they're all named Zathrus.

But they apparently had like, there's no don't you hear the difference between Zathris and Zathrus like they it's that.

That's the Joke's my favorite joke.

I love that joke.

I would like to use that joke over and over and over again.

It's just one of my favorite joke jokes.

Joke I am rude, and I feel that joke really hard.

I live I've mentioned before, I live in South Korea, and South Korea has this thing with double consonants that they can hear the difference of and I cannot.

And I can tell in context for context, for example, if you're talking about bang bread or bang as in a room, but I I don't like if you just asked me to say the words, it's back to back.

I don't know how to make them different.

And they're like, no, it sounds so different, and then they do it to me and I'm like, I don't know, I can't hear.

The difference sounds exactly.

What you're doing blue and blue.

Yeah, so anyway, but yes, we will see multiple uh Zathrus Diathrs.

I like zath I think that's.

I like zat yes, and they have different speech patterns.

The actors makes a good choice because this Satrius does those clicky things like he does those.

I don't think one of the other Zathris we meet does that, like, I don't think he does that.

So but it's the same actor.

It's really cool.

Oh oh oh right, Oh that's cool.

Yeah, that's cool.

Yeah, that's great.

That's great.

Oh my god, I can't wait Sathrus forever.

But yes, so I think that's it.

So thank you for joining us for this epic episode of Babylon five.

You can always check out our reaction uh which will be linked somewhere and.

Fuck oh Patriot.

Patriot unedited versions and in this one you can see Gus break everything in his excitement and yeah and like and subscribe and rate and review and do all of the things that you are supposed to do.

That Ryan, that was really cool.

Anyways, really good With that, we will leave you and Babylon h