When your shows alone put so much emotionality into a young character, just any show.

And then two, when does it happen in the animator?

Because I can't, like I think of anything from like a Futurama to a SpongeBob.

Do they go that far?

Like your parents?

Die?

Hi?

Everyone, it's tsur Car voice of Sabine Wren, Specter five, and with us we.

Have what's up guys, Taylor Gray, Ezra Bridgie here Specter six.

We also have with.

Us, Hey, everybody, it's John Lee Brody, your friendly neighborhood moderator.

And today more hot takes.

I'm the last Jedi.

No, I'm kidding or maybe you never know, but actually we are going over Star Wars Rebels Season two, Episode eleven, Legacy.

But first, as always, it's family checking time.

How is everybody doing?

Did the last Jedi one drop?

Oh?

Yes, yeah, it's actually been pretty chill so far, so I mean, yeah, yeah, but we'll see.

It's still early in the day, still.

Early, stay tuned till next time, right, Well, in that case, I'm good.

Yeah, so far.

So good, so far, so far.

How is everybody doing?

Though I definitely haven't slept in like two weeks, so we'll see how this goes.

With moving and everything.

And I definitely I unearthed some treasures from the very start of Star Wars Rebels and would love to share them.

I'll describe them for those listening.

But yeah, it's it's been a Moving is one of the top stressors, so I don't recommend it, but it's worth it ultimately.

But other than that, completely fine.

Oh and I had my birthday.

Thank you everyone for a birthday wish.

Happy Yeah, so all is well.

Do you feel like a renewed energy in your new placement?

Oh my gosh, I've never been happier in my life.

Amazing, that's always fantastic.

Yeah.

I just meditated I'm filling like a million bucks.

Ooh.

That that kind of goes on on brand with some of the stuff Ezra has going on in this episode is all astral projecting and meditating like he's Leonardo in the nineteen ninety Ninja Turtles movie if you know, you know, But is.

That going to be in the recap?

No, no, it's not.

I went more.

Yeah, this one was pretty admittedly light on some of those pop culture references, and that one just came to me now once you said meditation, and I thought of Leonardo in the woods, going like splinter, you know that whole thing.

Well, I can't wait.

I as I was watching this episode, I was like, Oh, what's John gonna come up with?

This time?

It's small?

This was heavy stuff, very emotional watching this.

It's a pretty short recap because because of the heavy stuff, because there's a lot of stuff to unpack, so why don't why don't we just get into it?

And also to our listeners when we do family check in time, you are part of the family, so we are checking in with you.

Also, I know that we can't hear you as you're talking back to the podcast, but comments are open on Spotify.

We see some of them and there's some very nice ones on there, and you can utilize that the check in with us or our social media.

So just fii.

The check in is also inclusive to all of you listening because you're all part of the Rebels family.

Right, That's exactly right?

Hit us up, let us.

Know absolutely all right, So here we go.

Star Wars Rebel Season two, episode eleven, Legacy original air date December ninth, twenty fifteen, Written by Henry Gilroy.

We gave the flowers to Melching a couple weeks ago, and we haven't.

We've mentioned Henry, but we haven't really given his flowers.

And this is someone who also is a i say, a legendary writer in the animation space.

It's done a lot of prolific work.

He wrote My Fate, one of my favorite television episodes ever, which was in the Batman Animated series.

It was like the Scarecrow episode where Batman had to face his fear of letting his parents down.

It was a really cool episode.

And so Henry goes way back with the world of animation, and we thought we would just throw some flowers his way, because I do think he listens to the podcast.

So now Henry, Okay, well good, no, Henry, you've got any flowers.

He's also not only is he a wonderful writer, he's just a sweetie pie like he is just a great a great guy in real life.

So Hi, no, no.

I love that.

I love that.

Well, here comes the recap for season two episode eleven, Legacy.

The episode has copious amounts of action between the shootouts with stormtroopers and Callous, another visit from the Inquisitive siblings, and a narrow escape from the Empire as they storm Grell, and it's also packed with a lot of emotional weight, fuel by Ezra having dreams slash astral projections about his parents, leading him to believe that they are alive.

With the help of Canaan and leading into his lout to zen mindset, Ezra uses his forced clairvoyants to try and narrow downwards his parents might be, and like Thomas Wolf in nineteen twenty nine, that very clairvoyance leads to him looking home to Lathal.

It is there where a white loafcat guides on like armies in Greek mythology, but it is Azra who is the trickster here when he plants a tracker on their ever elusive Totem spirit guide.

This leads him and Cadaen to Writer Azzati.

Fun fact about Writer.

In a past life, he was the world's greatest criminal mind.

More on that later.

The now exile former governor of Lathal is able to give as their information on his parents, but it wasn't the information he was hoping for.

It's a lot for the young Paddle want to take in, and it adds even more complications who's already complicated grief, but he also gains the wisdom of knowing that his parents, like his home planet of Lethal, will always live through him and always be with him.

And that is the recap for season two, episode eleven, Legacy brilliant.

I didn't understand one of your references.

Which one?

And now I'm like, oh, criminal lines, no Thomas Wolfe.

Oh, because you know Thomas Wolfe wrote you Can't Go Home Again, But there was also Lakhomewer and Angel, so look Homeward Angel was like, you're yearning for home and then you can't go home again?

Was the wisdom of you can't.

I can't go home again, because it's never the same as when you're so sad.

Yeah, he's he's he's kind of a tragic figure because I think he passed at like age thirty seven, so he never really got the write his own ending to his own his own life story.

But uh, yeah, he's known for like the Wanderer sort of theme, which is kind of Ezra.

You know Ezra's that he's JD.

Salinger.

It's all those things.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, thank you, thanks for that.

I was like, wait, I missed it.

You know it, you know it.

Now we know and know he's had the battle.

So what are our initial thoughts with this very emotionally heavy episode, which, admittedly, when I first saw it in twenty fifteen, I didn't I wasn't in the great mindset to absorb all the emotionality.

But now watching it, I'm like, Wow, this is a lot for young Ezra to have to process.

It's so sad, you guys, the top of the episode is just heartbreaking.

And Taylor, it must I mean it must have been you know, I don't know, challenging or emotional to actually record this stuff.

Yeah, I remember being heavy, but I also remember telling Dave the whole time like.

It's funny.

I mean, we're so young.

I was so young.

But like, up until that point, a lot of the roles I played were always these like very emotional characters.

So that feel like the space And I don't know why that is.

It felt so much more familiar to me than some of the like sort of sit comy beats like the White look at It burned down.

Like at times I hear lines of this, I'm like, yeah, yeah, obviously, like you don't have to say that, but that's the line, like you don't really have a choice, and it can be a bit light.

But then this, I thought the writing was so good.

I thought Clancy was so good.

But then I was wondering, I clearly am not as well.

First, when do animated shows go so like when your shows alone put so much emotionality into a young care just any show?

And then two, when does it happen in the animator because I can't, like, I think of anything from like a Futurama to a SpongeBob enough, Like, do they go that far?

Like your parents die?

You know what I mean?

Maybe Young Justice and some of those things that are more DC kind of heavy.

Okay, have your adult well, I mean there's still kids, but they kind of exkew.

For Young Justice, I played Black Canary.

She was kind of a therapist to the younger superheroes that are in the Justice League, and she would help them through PTSD and all kinds of identity crises and this and that, and it helped a lot of people.

I remember talking to people at com Con saying how impactful it was for I think it was beast Boy who had a particular PTSD scene with me Black Canary his quote unquote, well not literal therapist but I'm sort of a mentor to them.

But that got pretty heavy for a cartoon.

So it does happen, but I've for me personally at this point watching this episode.

I obviously we had no idea what would happen with Canaan later on, but I loved how Canaan was supporting you through this, and we know eventually we're going to lose him, And I remember Filoni saying, you know, we put that in the middle of the season so that we could all heal together.

This felt sort of like a precursor to that eventual loss as well.

That this hit differently knowing what happens later on for you, the very person who's comforting you through this loss, you will lose him as well spoiler alert, but that it just it resonated differently, knowing sort of you know, on a rewatch if you will, as opposed.

To it didn't.

It didn't impact me as much as it did this time.

Somehow, it did impact me, but not as much as it did last night.

No.

Watching Pain and Guide Ezra through the Jedi mind trick was I don't know, it really got me.

Also, Freddy's so good at that like balancing that I don't know if there's like a there's like a gravitas to him where he doesn't do too much and by not overdoing it it is so much more impactful.

I don't know.

I was trying as I was watching last night, I was like trying to figure out how to describe it.

But I think you guys probably know what I mean.

I'm not being very eloquent about it, but he just has this way of like towing the line of like not being casual but not sort of like hitting it too hard, and in doing so it feels so natural, but also like it carries so much weight, you know, his words and anyway, I thought that was really beautiful.

I just love all of the Ezra and Kanan interaction, even the funny stuff, you know, like the what does he say?

And now we're chasing both cats and then what do you says?

Like the force is always you're sweet.

I like it because and then you know it's not just like so heavy and so emotional.

There's still moments of levity and and fun and and that's that's Star Wars, right.

It's very Shakespearean.

It's like, but it's that's that you just said, it's Star Wars right, Like I was saying about so many issues with parents in Star Wars.

Right, Yeah, speaking with parents.

Did you remember that d was the voice of your father.

I did.

I couldn't figure out.

I was so f sit on Clancy.

I thought Clancy was so good.

He's so good.

His voice, just his the timbre of his voice is just like Frankiss.

Dean was killing me because you know, he's the Imperial guy.

Then we cut he's Captain Rex.

Then he's your dad.

I was like anything else.

I didn't know that, yeah, huh yeah.

And then it became John Cena's pet eagle on the peacemaker.

So he's he's the eagle speaks on the peacemaker.

Well, equally he makes the eagle noises or equally on peacemaker.

If I needed to hire someone to make eagle sounds.

D He's pretty much got the monopoly on that market.

I don't know anyone else that I could compete.

But Taylor to uh to your question earlier about animation kind of going hard.

If you look at the nineties Fox Kids lineup, thatmant animated series, Superman animated series, which is why I mentioned Greatest Criminal Mind because, as you all know or may not know.

Clancy Brown was the voice Alex Luthor, and I would put him in like my top five of Lex Luthor's of all time.

But if you watch like X Men ninety two, Batman Animated series, Superman Animated series, that lineup, yeah it was.

It was the Fox Kids lineup, but they did it in like two layers, which is really how Henry Gilroy writes as well.

He lies the layer up.

We got to make sure that this isn't going to alienate our younger audience and stay true to what George Lucas had intended when he made Star Wars.

He wanted for kids.

He wanted to lighten what was going on in the world, but also beneath that, you're going to get the deeper meanings.

And if you watch those older nineties cartoons, they one percent do it.

I watch it as an adult, like, man, it's kind of fed up.

I watched that as a kid after school.

I don't know ifellose, but like, you don't understand that as a kid.

Just as you get older, you're like, oh wow, this this episode of Batman Animate series was about more than him fighting crime.

It was about him kind of chasing his own shadow or dealing with his grief and never come into never really being at peace with his parents murdered and all that stuff.

But they don't put in the forefront for you like that, but it is like there, so I would say, you know, and you can certainly say that because Henry Gilroy does come from that world of like the nineties animation, So that would be my personal experience with it.

Yeah, because it is.

It is very I'm in two minds about it because one you have the sort of you don't want to shelter children too much, but also you want to protect them.

And at the same time, it's important.

The world is suffering, the world is gnarly, and to be able to experience it parallel to a story that's fictional that's through a screen, that is huge.

Know for me as a kid, like a lot of reference you have are from things that you watched, and that's important.

But they do like some of the lines I didn't remember how far they went, but like it's sad, like they're telling them your parents died and also your transmission they heard, and I was like, geez man, like this is it's a kid and it's yeah, that's like a lot.

I don't know, you don't see that all the time on any show really, So I was like, Okay, they really wif right, And I think Henry did a good or an incredible job tastefully writing it, where like if I was at parents with my kids, I'm like, that's like maybe good exposure therapy in a way.

I also thought, you know, I don't tend to compliment you very often, Taylor, but I thought you really handled all of this stuff really beautifully, like it was you know, it was so I was so sad watching this stuff.

And then when you learn of your parents' fate, oh my god, it's heart wrenching.

But you don't do any like it's it's just right.

You don't do too much, you don't do too little.

It's like you're like Goldilocks in this episode.

Thanks did did you find because you have I'm sure we all have moments like this on the show, Like this is what through me for just for a second.

Was I remember the first time we did it.

Obviously you're just breaking down naturally, but I remember dating like it also has to be a bit audible, And I was like, oh god, you're right, Like.

When I when I do that.

It's not it's not necessarily I can be a bit hysterical, but it's not that audible when I cry.

And then we've had to do this countless times on camera and you see it and you feel it, but it's you're not necessarily making the sound.

And then to.

Say okay, you're not forcing it, but like, okay, we're also going to do this into a microphone.

It becomes something a little different, which is you're like, well, I hope the way they animate it is you know what I mean.

There's a technical component to it that you might not otherwise have to do on camera.

Right, you would never think about it at least.

Yeah, picking up your facial expressions, your body language.

You know, we don't need you to project like you might have to on stage or in this case.

Yeah, there's like a different technical component to it.

Well, I thought you did.

Great, Thank you, thank you.

Write it down on the calendar.

There we go.

That's it.

That's it first season two.

Well, well can do you can continue that in your other podcast, you guys, and we'll go deeper into God.

I was like, I forgot what I was called.

I forgot what my other hit show is called.

It's more like you guys.

Instead of hey dude, it's you guys.

Oh sorry sorry, sure, what you have to say is much more important than I was.

No, no, no, I was just going to piggyback on what you were saying to you, because when I when I watched this episode and I listened to all y'all's performances, but with with Ezra had to go through, it's like a mix of adrenaline anticipation, with which is layered with heartbreak, which goes into the layering of how you know, a lot of these really great shows and made it with live action are just written and uh and it's just like you just felt every bit of it.

It's just you know, you don't see what happens.

But is the fact that his parents were alive that whole time you think through season one, his parents were alive that whole time, like wait what?

And then they heard your voice and they knew it was you.

So it's like, that's so much the pros.

And that like your transmission, Ezra's transmission was the catalyst for this event, and that they didn't make it out.

Y'all, that is really wrenching, like the whole and then you know, the idea that you hadn't seen them for years.

I mean you were on your own as this young kid, like just trying to survive, and that you guys were just so close, like you you know, like that it was that what happened to them was so recent and I mean that's really that's really tough.

And we know, like in Star Wars, the theme of sacrifices, like the ultimate that's enlightenment, that's the selflessness, like the natural thoughts come flooding in of like during that scene, you're going like, well, what if I just didn't send this transmission, maybe they still would be alive.

It's my fault because we always want to take blame.

And you're like, well no, but you it's doing good for the world and what matters more.

And you're like, god, that for anyone.

That's heavy.

But then when you make it a like a teenager, you're like, oh god.

Yeah, kudos to Sabine.

You know, when they were sort of losing the battle and you you come with the big guns, and I love the whole joke of like don't.

Got it, don't got it?

Yeah I got it?

Do you got it?

I got it?

Like yeah, serious, too.

Yeah, Ever since the Katsu episode, I learned a little more about her.

You've noticed that she's really speaking up in these kind of team meetings of this is the Intel and then she's sitting shotgun with Hara.

On this I noticed.

I was like, Oh, she's just right up in there.

Yeah, it's cool when they jump the hyperspace together that shot when they're both up there in the front seats.

The music also in this episode I thought was cool, is very at the beginning, at least, it was very trippy.

Maybe it was playing into that what did you call it?

I just wrote nightmare, but you called it something else said projection, actual projection.

Yeah, you could tell they played off that with the music.

There was almost like a vocal chorus to which I never hear, and.

I was about to I have I was getting to that, but yeah, I was going to ask you guys or JC, maybe I don't think that we've had like choral music on our on the show before.

Is this?

I mean, maybe I could be wrong, but it really struck me that, like, excuse me, the the you know, after we learn what happened, what happened to Ezra's parents, there's this like choral beautiful, really stunning music.

And I was like, have we had like voices singing or has it just been instrumental?

I don't think so.

It was really stirring.

I thought, yeah, I hadn't.

I hadn't heard that before I set out.

Also, I mean, so many random things and lethal looks like Earth kind of I that I was like, oh interesting, Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen that with other planets as much they look like other planets.

Was this and I was like, this is like an Anman version of Earthy.

Yeah, yeah, there's there's blue, you know, blue and green, and yeah, looks familiar.

Well.

One of the things that I found in my sort of unearthing, I had to kind of purge and go through what matters and what doesn't.

And of course I saved everything from Star Wars Rebels, but I don't know if you remember the first pack that they sent us the Star Wars Rebels Bible, and you know, like a nerd, I printed it out and highlighted it because I'm that nerdy.

But one of the first sentences it says here for the Bible is family is more than blood.

And I never forgot that, and I didn't know where I put all these notes.

You know, you just file them away or whatever.

But it says learning is a two way street, standing up to evil, that it matters to stand up to evil.

And it says pretend to be something long enough and you read and you risk becoming exactly that.

And I just thought about that.

In terms of family, what I saw that silhouette of you with Canaan really sort of accepting the loss of your parents.

These sentences came to my mind, and I was so happy to have found.

These because they really they guided me.

In terms of, you know, trying to trying to get the group to coalesce as a family.

Like I think these sentences were just really powerful and I'm really grateful that I found them.

Plus I found this hilarious picture.

Do you remember when we signed these and Star Wars Weekends the first time?

For our listeners who can't see, I mean, we'll make it a social click.

Can you describe what you're holding up for us?

Yes, I'm holding up a picture, it says Vanessa Marshall Harrison Dula Star Wars Rebels, the animated series Disney's Hollywood Studios Star Wars Weekends.

It was back in twenty thirteen or fourteen.

I believe, I'm not sure, but we were out in the sun and signing these for people and our show hadn't even come out yet and people were lining up for hours to get, you know, this thing signed.

And it was that a five by seven.

It's like a mall yeah.

Yeah shot too.

Yeah.

And I was there the first time, I believe, with Peter Mayhew and I don't know.

It was just such a it was such a special time.

And it's a hilarious headshot.

My hair is like it's a great good sho.

I love this curl.

It's like, oh hello, yeah, yeah.

It's seriously amazing.

I guess it's so amazing.

It's hilarious.

But it's just a photo.

Anyway, maybe I'll take a picture of it and you can post it with the stuff.

But the other thing I found that I'm so excited.

I found the wings of the master script, yeah, with all the highlights and all the things, and I texted Melching, Melching's going to sign it for me.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

But anyway, I don't I don't mean to like divert away, but my point is that this this the intention at the outset for the show was to examine issues that, uh, you know, issues where chosen family matters, and I felt like in this episode we saw that unfolding as Ezra lost his actual family but embraced his chosen family, particularly in this episode, and I think that's why I said it reverberated out for me in terms of losing Canaan ultimately how we healed as a group after that as well without the very person who facilitated some sort of comfort for Ezra in that very dark moment.

But also it is a very adult theme, like you said, Taylor, but I feel like this is why the hashtag Star Wars family thing is not something to be taken lightly.

I think when we all go through these things, we've all lost people, we've lost family members.

That silhouette is really.

Impactful for anyone who has lost a family member.

There is that moment where you just come to accept it and move into grief.

And I think.

People who are going through trauma really do heal through watching some of this content, and we all identify with that.

I think that's why we got the feels watching it this time and the first time.

But anyway, those are my thoughts.

Those are great.

Thank you for sharing all that.

And also we are approaching the holidays, which can be when you're growing up, it's such an innocent, happy time, but as you get older and things start being maybe taken away, maybe there's an empty spot at the table, you're like, oh wow, like you start to see like that's the other side of life.

So I think you're saying that with the chosen family and how you can come together as a community is really important.

But also I want to go back to that show Bible you told me about.

So that's something that you all got.

It's like basically like your baseline up.

Don't forget these are your fundamentals.

Am I understanding that correctly?

Just like if you teach someone basketball, it's like pastorrible, shoot this triple threat, Like, these are your fundamentals and you build on that.

Is that what that essentially was for you?

Like if went in doubt, go back to that show Bible so you know that it has to always be authentic to that.

Am I understanding correctly that?

I think that was the goal.

I mean it says these are themes and values.

Family is more important than blood.

Our family is more than blood.

Sorry, And then there's also these other sheets about the resourcefulness of the rebels, the importance of humor.

Like, I think they wanted to map out some just touchstones for us to come back to.

They talk about the ship, the personality the ship, the personality of Chokler.

I think it was just they cared so much, given that this was the first voyage with you know, Disney at the helm.

Of the IP.

I think they really wanted to very specifically guide us.

I don't know, I mean, you guys, what do you remember thought.

It was like a jumping off point, like to give us a context like where we were right, Yeah, that's.

What I would say, like just to sort of ease us in and like immerse us in the world and give us these like reference points so that we could kind of just jump right in.

And you know, it was that all of that information coupled with Dave really like guiding us, you know, spending so much I mean, well into season four, we would still like start our recording sessions.

I mean the whole time we would start our recording sessions day really taking a good long time to tell us, you know, kind of get our minds right, get us into the mindset of like where we are in the story, what's happening in this episode, and any information that he felt like we needed, but especially at the beginning.

I mean, we spent a lot of time, which I really appreciate of him kind of setting the scene and not just for our show, but there would be you know, many references to Clone Wars, to the original trilogy, to just he's a he's a you know, wealth of knowledge obviously Star Wars knowledge, and so we got a lot of info, especially at the beginning.

But then all of that stuff was just stuff that we could like sort of take home with us, really think about, let it inform sort of where we started, and for them to be able to take that with us.

But I thought that was all very helpful, and.

Then we got didn't we like once for our character too.

Yeah, it's very used to do that with his actors.

He would give them all dossier's on their characters.

They had this whole wealth and knowledge of who they were, so every performance can be really layered, which of course goes to George Lucas, who was inspired by Hidden Fortress, which was directed of course by So it's uh, you see the mentorship of George to Dave.

Right there and I bet you, well, I'm just guessing here, but I bet you those dossier's probably had like sketches and things that Corusawa did.

I'm just guessing here, but just knowing like his artistry, like visual artistry, and you know, Dave like same thing.

He would just like each of our I thought, our character booklets, if you want it, for lack of a better word, let's call it dossier.

That sounds so much cooler, it.

Sounds so efficient.

You're still looking too.

Didn't have artwork, I mean, wasn't there artwork for our character the ship?

And yeah, they didn't give that to us.

But this is so funny.

Sure we got to see We've got to see it.

That's cool you sure us images.

I remember at the beginning of episodes a lot he would be like, look, we just we did this one up.

This is what this is going to look like.

This is a perbole, This is all the low Cat's going to look like.

Yeah, you know, one thing I wanted to bring because you touched on a lot of really great things with us about Canaan and Ezra's growth in this episode.

And we see, of course the maturation of Ezra, but also the growth of Canaan because with that moment where because Ezra, like any teenagers gonna have moments of I don't want to call it emotional dysregulation, whatever you want to call it.

Or he's like, you don't know what it's like, and Canaan to his credits, like, you're right, I don't, but he's there to like listen instead a breach where maybe in season one he might have just tried to be like, hey, I need you to do this for me, but instead here he's like, I hear you, and I'm so sorry.

I don't understand what that's like, but I'm here for you.

And I felt like that was such a great growth moment for the both of them.

And then back to your point when it's about the foreshadowing and the sort of the fate of everybody hiding in playing sight that last image of Canaan and Ezra on the thall and him telling Ezra you know your family lives on through you, with you knowing where it's going to go.

It's just like there's all the chills and all the feels, all the whatever other adjectives that are synonyms that go it feels.

It just insert that there and because it hits much much, much harder when you know ultimately where it's going to go once you get to season four, which we all take our time getting there, because first of all, let's do that.

I'm already.

I don't slow it down either, Like this is I'm realizing we haven't asked JC a question.

So just looking for something I've got.

I've got clear enough that what I was gonna say is like they don't stop there with like it's very heavy, and then they put him in a scene with his parents and you're like, come on, like you're really nailing this home.

But when they're looking out that white city, is that what looks all used to be?

What could have been?

That's what I interpreted as.

So I just on my other buck as I just did the movie Remember Returned to Oz and how the Emerald City was destroyed.

That's how I interpreted it, but mainly because that movie was so fresh in my mind, just a little bit yeah yeah, or like the Ivory Tower and never ending story, you know, my mind went to and h yeah, and that scene Taylor where you're talking to your parents, you know, having that sort of force memory whatever you want to call it.

I love the deliberate choice that we stay at Ezra's eye level because we don't we don't really see your parents' faces, because it's really uh, focusing on what Ezra's feeling.

But it's very much a throwback to like Looney Tunes, where you wouldn't see the adults, or how Spielberg shot et it was always from Elliott's point of view, and then the only time you actually kind of see his parents was a super wide shot, where to me is like a storyteller, it's like you want to like give Ezra a hug, but as an a d were so far away, and once people are going through grief, there's nothing you can really do to heal it other than just try to be there for him, which is what Canaan does very powerful last like thirty seconds of the show.

And then to your point, John, and I think you said, like the difference between season one Canaan, how he might have handled this situation versus this Canaan, and it's like a there's a gentleness that I think is newer.

You know, he handles Ezra with such care and like empathy, not that he wasn't an empathetic character before, but just that you know, he might have been a little more lectury versus there's just like a real care and sweetness and gentleness that I noticed that in this episode.

And I really I mean, this is kind of on a personal note, but it was really touching to watch this exchange or this episode of Canaan and Azra because it kind of reminded me of you know, you were you were so young, Taylor when you start we started his show, and I know, you know, you and Freddie's real life friendship and his kind of mentorship or sort of big big brother role and little brother role, and it was just so sweet to like, just because I know how you guys are in real life and that there was there was there's there's genuine care behind these you know, these scenes where you're acting quote unquote but you're you know you're not.

There's genuine care and uh and friendship there.

So I just thought that was like an a I.

Could hear that from Freddy and I was thinking, that is very sweet.

Yeah, what are some of the questions you have for J C.

John My random one when I was watching, because in the beginning of you know, Ezra has the visions astral projecting and and the other thing that Canaan and Haarrah just kind of burning the midnight oil and like the living room with the ghost.

I'm like, do they not wear night where?

Like there's no pajamas and Star Wars that was my I was like, because there's no questions, but you know, Jacon will definitely know some sort of answer to that.

But like I was like, wait, do they not like they just maybe because you always have to be ready because they're wrong.

With how about when she.

Has wardrobe changes?

You got how about the like worms that come in to try and kill her.

She's wearing pajamas while she's sleeping, isn't she.

Guys, she wears a night where Yeah, and in episode three too, she's wearing like like a nightgown.

Yeah, you guys, she's just let me tell you about Star Wars pajamas.

Yeah, I think it's budget.

I'm gonna go with JC maybe budget.

Like they kind of finally go out in their armor to sleep.

It's like it's like you never have no one ever has to use the restroom, No one's ever eaten a sandwich.

Do sandwiches exist in this galaxy?

You know what I mean?

Like there's and nobody changes, nobody like you, Like there might be a sandwich saying bron gosh, no one's eating a bowl of pasta in Star Wars.

I'm just saying that, I do not think you know, no one.

No one on Rebels is ever like I'm starving?

Can we stop?

And just I want spaghetti?

That would be a bottle episode Like me, I would.

Be used to being like, No, I'm just saying some of like Maslow's hierarchy of needs are not being fulfilled on in Star Wars.

Like I'm just.

Saying, no, that's a great point to bring.

And uh, yeah, they do.

I think in season three because they call they called the refresher and said not the restaurant.

They called a refresher when a P two joins the crew and on official base.

So and I believe, and JC can fact check me on this, I believe that was a Timothy's On thing.

Timothys On of course wrote the novel.

But if I'm wrong, please listeners, don't yell at me.

JC will correct me.

Don't worry.

But yeah, but like I know, in Skeleton Crew they actually had like a food court where they're eating.

But yeah, and Rebels, you're right, they don't like it would be nice, like, hey, guys, I know we got to do this, but our blood sugar is getting really low, and if he wants to function, we're gonna need some carbohydrates.

Yeah something.

It looks like that's why your.

Aim was off this episode for Ezra, because you remember he's kind of missing him, like, oh he's it's hungry.

I did appreciate that, Canaan said, because this goes into that and a sort of more quoteitient thing when he's like, hey, let's go.

The moons are setting that.

That is a kind of sweet like dropping us back in, but also funny, like this is our Star Wars version of There's two right, right, Yeah.

I'm seeing something called a Ronto roaster at the docking Base seven food and Cargo at Galaxies Edge.

It roasted pork, grilled pork, sausage, tangy slaw in peeda bread.

And then for the children, there is something here a Thorian uh pasta rings.

I think it said hold on.

Jac watch out, yeah, like videos or something.

Plant based meat, marinara sauce with pasta.

So I don't know that's a park thing, but it is in the It is in the Star Wars area.

So hey, there are fans who know all about this, so you can at us about this topic.

And and of course.

JC absolutely absolutely and uh yeah.

The other thing is like the fall of the White Loaf cat.

So I I had where my mind went was.

I was like, was this a nod to the matrix?

Because Neo had to follow the white rabbit and that led to him understanding.

So I asked somebody who would know the answer to that.

I slid into Henry.

Hey, can you hear my beard?

You know?

No, Henry I did, and he said, who are you?

Please, don't ever mention to me again.

He was very gracious about it, and uh, I think he enjoyed that.

That's where my mind went.

But he said, this is more about I know I'm talking about the White Loaf cut.

Heverybody from Henry Gilward.

This is more about Ezra's forced connection to the natural world that I was trying to put forward, kind of like gifts to the spirit force, powers can manifest in different ways.

For Ezra, it was his ability to connect with creatures and he's like Canaan didn't have that power.

Anakin did, but he kind of muscled control over creatures where with Ezra he's a little more sensitive.

And I was like, oh, that's very like inside.

So he was very gracious, give me this very uh detailed answer.

We need more that.

Yeah, it's cool.

You reached out to him, and he pretty much shut down my matrix theory.

So I was like, yeah, we like it, we like it anyways, well because I thought it is Ezra the one like like Neo.

So he's got to follow his uh his white totem.

But that sounded weird, your white total, right, anyway, let's follow the white low cut bright the fact check with jac what have we got today?

Oh?

He quit apparently you know, I have to turn I have to push like eight buttons to get my camera back on.

And it's been I feel like the entirety of Los Angeles is sick.

So I'm a little bit slow.

I don't have a lot for this.

I have a lot from the last three minutes of discussion from you guys.

Let's go.

We say we like to say for you.

We didn't want to give you too easy of the time.

We had like no questions journalist.

The first thirty five minutes.

There's I had one thing, and now I've got twelve.

The one thing I picked out from the show, So when they're escaping at the end of this, when the Imperials are backing, Garrel Soto mentions escape plan Delta, which I thought was interesting because it's kind of.

A callback to.

Luke Skywalker against the ad Ats, which we can discuss more next episode in on how they use attack pattern delta to attack.

That was Luke Skywalker's plan.

So attack plan Delta is called out here, and I guess it's where multiple ships flee for hyperspace while command ship stays behind us a diversion.

So again, after the very soulful conversation you guys have, I don't know how interesting escape plan Delta is.

It's interesting, John.

You mentioned Clancy Brown in your intro.

You came back to it later on that he played one of the best versions of Lex Luthor, and the DC Animated also wanted to call out he played Savage Opress in the Clone Wars, Darth Maul's brother.

My first intro to Clancy was Starship Troopers, which I recommend everybody go back and watch for no good reason at all.

Right now, Taylor had hit emotion.

Taylor, you talked about do other cartoons give young characters the opportunity for such heavy emotional arcs.

The only one that I could pull.

I mean, Justice League Animated season two does a lot with that, but it's more between Green Lantern and Hawk Girl, which are adult characters.

The only spot where I could really remember a cartoon that I was like, Wow, this is a lot was the character of Aang in Avatar The Last Airbender, who's kind of like wakes up after all this time and has the save the world essentially, which was also a Dave Filoni show.

I'm going to go with John's interpretation of the White City of Lothol.

I'm not going to add anything to that.

I did have something to add to what Tia was saying about Taylor's relationship with Freddie and how she could hear Canaan's gentleness in his approach to mentoring him versus lecturing, and I thought that was really interesting because it's not something I picked up in the show, but hearing you guys discuss it, it made me think about Obi Wan and Anakin, and when you watch obi Wan mentor Anakin throughout the entire series, it's almost grating, how like lecturing and how much he puts down Anakin throughout all of the episodes, and I wonder or throughout the movies, and I wonder how much how present that was in the writer's minds for Rebels, in that if Obi Wan's tutoring in that way impacted Anakin's decision and need to find other mentors i e.

Palpatine and aid It in his path to the dark Side, was it conscious that that's what happened?

And so in Rebels, we need to put Ezra's mentor on a different path, maybe start him at the same point, And let's show what happens if the teacher goes this direction instead of that direction, because we've already seen what happens when you know, the Jedi council babies him and holds him back and holds him back.

So I thought that was really interesting.

Pajamas in Star Wars, Taylor was right.

Amidala does wear pajamas in episode two.

Anakin also sleeps with his shirt off in I believe episode.

Three three, he's got a robe and everything.

Yeah, my controversial take, and I'm so sorry that we're going to wade into these waters.

But the one thing I have to say about characters never changing their costumes, which, Taylor, you've hit on an animation, there's like budgetary to it.

I guess the one question and I'll leave it up to the fans.

I'm not gonna hazard an opinion on this.

But in the Ahsoka Live action show, which takes place a decade after what we are experiencing right now, and Hara is an accomplished general who's done all of these things, why is she still wearing the same outfit ten years later that she wears on this show?

Like even Luke and Lea changed their outfits movie to movie.

Why is Harrah still wearing the same thing?

I mean questions?

Ahsoka looks is wearing different stuff from when she from Home Wars, right, I mean, now that she's older, she looks different, her makeup is different, her outfit is slightly different.

So then why is poor Hairra still still.

If I was a kid, my arguments my parents would be like, you tell me to be like, these people will be follow the right path.

They sleep in their clothes that they were on the playground.

I just go to sleep in my stuff, get up in the same thing, because I think it's just funny, Like how can you be asleep wearing that yeah, never fly.

Yeah, yeah, let me tell you what I think about it.

No, kid, I'm not this episode, but you never know.

If you got you know, if people are liking the chaos, I'll hold back with this episode.

You never know, but no, no, sorry, go ahead.

Yeah, So, you know, I think within the context of the show, I can see it.

Within the broader context of the universe, maybe there should be some other costume changes made.

They got to find an outlet store in the outer Rim or something, you know.

Just I mean, Sabine changes outfit's from season to seas all the time.

This is true.

I'm saying, I just didn't know if it was like a pilot's uniform type of deal.

And maybe she has a number of them.

You know, it's not the same para pants.

Like Kevin Smith's or Homer Simpson's closets, where it's all the same thing, but there's one hundred versions of it.

It's kind of I don't.

Know, she's the Johnny Cash of US Star Wars.

Yeah.

Also, it's kind of a flave thing.

It's just sort of her.

Yeah, she's like.

Just too busy being Arrah that she can't you know, she didn't have time or Sabine is like that's a priority for hers to like really kind of you know, express her artistry through like her her armor and her helmet and such.

Whereas you know, Space Mom has a lot more on her plate.

She's got things to do.

She doesn't have time to worry about it.

The onto them they're born with clothes.

They might not be clothed.

It might just be part of that.

They haven't proven otherwise yet.

Yeah, like Chewbacca, Chewbacca never puts on clothes.

Maybe it's the same thing.

Yeah, Chewbacca hasn't changed clothes between the movies So Low and Episode nine.

He's naked the whole time.

Famously, George Lucas got studio notes back in the seventies about why does the will he not wear pants?

It sounds funny he doesn't need pants because he's a free spirit.

Yeah, Ze wars pants, but that's not free in the same way.

I feel like the more like to Go Tea.

They took Rob McCrory's drying.

They're like more.

Subtle.

Up we talked about John.

You mentioned the refresher.

I do believe the origin of that is Timothy's on but I could not confirm it.

I feel like the origin of a lot of things is probably Timothy's on, and if it's not Timothy's on, it was just prior to Timothy's on with the West End Games stuff.

And we've mentioned before in the fact check, Mandalorian is the first time that they were allowed to actually show a bathroom in Star Wars Mandalorian season one, we talked a little bit about Star Wars food.

The first instance I can think of of Star Wars food is obviously Luke is having breakfast or whatever lunch dinner in a New Hope with his aunt and uncle, and again he digs into some ration bars on Degobah with Yoda and then Wickett the e Walk in Return of the Jedi shares a rice cake with Princess Leah.

The first time I can think of beyond that is Luke Skywalker is talking to Oh and I'm so sorry, I haven't read this book since nineteen.

Ninety four, but I think it was.

Luke Skywalker talking to C three Po in Air to the Empire, which came out in nineteen ninety one, about Lando introducing him to hot chocolate, was like an earth thing that like, we're like, why don't they just eat pasta well like hot chocolate was introduced to Luke Skywalker by Lando in the mid nineties, and John the Gilroy info was awesome, and I just wanted to say, if you're going to be wrong about your matrix reference, like, I think what mister mister Gilroy shared was a great way to be absolutely wrong about something.

Well, Okay, he never said was wrong.

He just didn't confirm that that's what it was.

So let's let's be let's let's just make sure with your fact check portion that the packs are straight.

He didn't say I was wrong.

He just said, oh, this is what I meant.

I just texted him he said, you were wrong.

I'm kidding.

No, I agree.

I like the White Rabbit.

That's all I got there was.

It was a very heady episode, more so than.

I'm getting hetty with you taking that cheap shot of me.

Now anyways, I can uh.

I have an appointment today my therapist, so it'll be fine anyways.

Somehow.

Yeah, yeah, you don't got to take shots to me.

I know you know where I lived.

That's trouble, okay, You now you're turned into something that's not going to be I'm just like I'm just saying you don't have to I don't have to catch trays.

Well if if it's behind my back, I don't hear.

I can't control that.

But I'm right here, man.

You don't know.

We're all supposed to be family here and supportive.

But anyways, to me and Taylor, you.

Take the cheap shots.

To me, oh I do, and I will no cheap shot.

It's just like just straight up this is what I'm doing.

But anyways, thanks Chasey as always, and thank you to our listeners.

We know you have a choice in podcast, so we appreciate you choosing ours.

We will see you next week.

But until then, Taylor has more info on his podcast or he just has our outro, it's going to be one of the two.

Ur both, but uh you guys.

Shooting music.

Potter Rebellion is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts Producing, Hosted by Vanessa Marshall, TiO Surkar, Taylor Gray and John Ley Brody executive producer and in house star Wars guru slash back checker j c Riifenberg.

Our music was composed by Mikey Flash.

Our cover art was created by Neil Fraser.

Of Neil Fraser Designs.

Special thanks to Holly Free and Aaron Kaufman over at iHeart, Ivan krascor At, Willie Morrison, Devor Trasy Canobio, George Lucas for creating this universe we love so much, and of course all of our amazing listeners.

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