Coming up on this episode of Book Don Rock author Chris Epting.

He's written books with Phil Collin of def Leppard, John Oates, Tom Johnson, and Pat Simmons of the Doobie Brothers Dave Mason.

He's traveled to some of the most legendary sites in rock history, including the site of the Buddy Holly plane crash, the site of James Dean's fatal car crash, and if you're a fan of Paul Rodgers, Chris has some major news to share with you.

All that coming up next.

I'm lie, I know dialogue.

How's a fountain?

The conversation That's a geyser?

Interesting?

Interesting, as provocative.

Taddy Man's back Man Rock and Roll.

Welcome back to Book Don Rock, the podcast for those about to read and rock.

I'm Eric Senich.

We are back with another chapter in the Dialogue series.

It's a chill and chat with authors, fellow podcasters, musicians and more, and our guest is author, TV host photographer Chris Epting.

He's the author of over forty books, including James Dean Died Here, Roadside Baseball.

Hello, It's me Dispatches from a pop culture junkie.

Led Zeppelin Crashed Here, The Rock and Roll Landmarks of North America, and many others.

He's also co written Bear with Me here.

This is a long intro, Chris, bear with me.

You've got quite quite a list of credentials.

He's co written several memoirs, including Adrenalized with def Leppards Phil Colin, Change of Seasons with John Oh, It's Long Train Running with Tom Johnson and Pat Simmons of the Doobie Brothers, Only You Know and I Know with Dave Mason, Son of a Milkman, My Crazy Life with Tesla with Tesla Basis Brian Wheat, and Idle Truth with Leif Garrett.

Chris was also the co host and executive producer of the Reals TV series It Happened Here.

Chris, Welcome to the podcast.

Did I cover them all?

I think you did a very generous job.

I'm humbled and thank you very much for that.

Oh, this is so cool to have you on.

You have so many stories.

Before we get to the story, let's talk about where you're from, what led you on the path to your career.

And I'm also curious to hear about this story.

You ran into Alfred Hitchcock.

Yeah, when I was well, I grew up in New York.

I've lived in California since the nineteen mid eighties, but I grew up in New York, north of New York City.

A huge music fan from the get go.

I will tell you I have a very heavy bias towards the Rolling Stones, who from the time I was about six or seven years old, something just happened.

I heard Get Off my Cloud.

It was the first song I remember on the radio, and from there there was no turning back.

And I am an absolute Stones devotee, always have been, always will be, and that My first concert was June twenty second, nineteen seventy five, twelve years old, Madison's Garden Night, one of the Stones six night stent.

But from there again, I always love rock and roll.

I like a lot of us of that generation.

You know, pre MTV, there were if you lived in a you know, close to a fairly major city, you could see anybody and everybody, and I would you know, from things like The Stones and Zeppelin at the Garden In the mid to late seventies, I discovered bands like the Ramones and Blondie and Patty Smith and talking Heads and television down in places like CVGB in Maxis, Kansas City.

So I was kind of had both of those worlds, the smaller kind of thing that was about to explode and then the major artists.

And from there, I you know, it's college.

I got out.

I wrote and directed commercials for a bunch of years, but but always kind of wrote freelance and photographed freelance, and then in my late thirties kind of shifted gears started writing books and becoming a music journalist, which kind of opened me up into this whole other world where I could get to know a lot of these people, write about them, photograph them, and help them tell their stories.

Who was your first big get for an interview in life musician actor?

When I was I was I think it was a freshman or a freshman soup in high school and we had an assignment where you had to interview somebody, anybody from your life.

And you know, most people would be like, you know, they might talk to one of their parents or the carpentry, somebody in their little circle.

And I had a different thought, and I knew I just read in the paper that Fred Gwynn, who was Herman Munster and the Monsters lived by us and I said to my teacher, if I could talk to him, would that be okay?

And he's great, Yeah, of course, whoever interests you?

So I looked him up in the phone book and I called him and that voice answered the phone, and I explained what I was doing.

He goes share, you know, come on over.

Great, and so my mom brought me over and dropped me off there and there I was in the home of Fred Gwynn.

And he was amazing, and he was really friendly and nice.

But the issue with him was is he cursed a lot.

Not of anger, it was just the way he spoke.

So I had this tape I've got it somewhere.

I've got it a TDK tape somewhere of him laughing and telling stories.

Every word is f this and I didn't know what.

I went to a Catholic high school and I said a teacher, you know, is this okay?

And he said, well, you know, you can blot it out, you know, don't put the words in, but let us know the accuracy of the conversation.

And so that was my first real moment.

You know, you mentioned Hitchcock.

Our first trip to California in about in nineteen seventy four, my folks were checked My dad had a business trip in La we all got to it was a vacation for us as well, and checking into the hotel.

My parents were checking in, my sisters and I were running around the lobby of the Century Plaza hotel.

I wasn't looking where I was going, and I ran flush into an adult stomach, and I remember thinking that there is adults that are cool with that and let it go, and then there is this guy that's gonna make a thing out of it.

And I recognized as Zephyr Hitchcocks.

I had just seen him on television but a week before on PBS giving an interview.

And it's weird, that sounds strange.

It was the only time he had a mustache.

It was like wow, and I recognized that.

And he took me by the back of my head and he marched me over to my parents, who were like did a double take as they saw us coming.

And he made this little speech about people, kids and public behaving properly.

But then as he walked away kind of tussled my hair and he lightened it a little bit.

So that's so I don't think there's any photos of him with a mustache.

I I think I found one years later.

It was kind of a mustache.

But again, this PBS interview he had that and he must have shot it right around this time, because I get the face was so recognizable.

That is so cool man.

So yeah, But but Fred Quinn was the first one.

And then you know, as I got into music journalism, I don't know who the frost.

I mean, I was lucky.

I got to talk to a lot of people because I wrote for fairly big outlets, so I could get you know, I could make a pitch to somebody, it was usually you know, approved, So that opened up all kinds of doors.

I mean, I remember, you know, certain people, you know, sitting down and talking to Jackson Brown a couple of times was a big deal for me as a huge Jackson Brown fan.

There's people like that that I I was a fan of, but I also respected what they did and so I enjoyed being able to help tell their story.

And then when it happened with Phil, with Phil Colin, you know, that was a little different because I had never written a book with anybody, and I had written about Phil quite a bit.

We had developed a friendship, we were driving down to San Diego, I think to a show, and I mentioned in the car and said, hey, everything about maybe doing your book because I was thinking about as a writer, what's next.

You know, what are the opportunities, because you know, you always have your freelance, so you're always looking for things.

And I had read some great music memoirs and I wondered about that process and Phil said, yeah, let's give it a shot.

So we did, and I just fell in love with that process.

You know.

Having the trust that build up with Phil was really cool and made me appreciate that process, and I thought, you know what I want to I want to think of more of these to do, and that really set me off.

I think I've done eight or nine of those.

I picked the books that I wanted to ask you a out just starting with I think.

I don't know if I think I went with the most recent and then we go backwards, but whatever, we'll get to all of them.

We'll just start with a twenty twenty two book, Long Train Run in Our Story of the Doobie Brothers by Pat Simmons and Tom Johnson, talk about what the guys had to say about the band, contemplating the end of the row.

They were only seven years into their career and they were at this point where it was going to be over.

But things changed, as we know, they were able to get Michael McDonald in.

So it's one of the great I mean, really, that story I thought was so undertold.

I had met Pat first.

I was writing an article about Pat's wife, Chris, who was a motorcycle enthusiast, and they had pitched me I think it was for AOL or the La Times or something, and she was in this cross country race where their ride antique carle an amazing story, and I went down and met her and Pat was there and we were all talking and they invited me to dinner that night, and no.

Over dinner, Pat was telling stories that I'm like, dude, I mean, and Chris, I've always told him she write a book, so that at least opened a door and then we would chat about it.

And then I wrote John Oates's book with him, and he and I were doing the book event in San Francisco and Tom Johnston's wife was the wives get everything done.

I have learned that you want something done, you deal with the wives.

Yeah, and Tom's wife was lovely we talked to me after and said, wow, you know, I liked how you talked with John, and I think Tom, you know, might be a good thing.

And then I thought, well, they could each do individual books, but how cool would it could be to have I just read a book by Ann and Nancy Wilson, their memoir, and they definitely intertwined both voices.

I hadn't seen that done before.

I loved that device, and I thought this would be a good opportunity for that.

And so so you know, we got that together, and you know, and talking about the part you brought up is a tough part of the band because Tom can't play for a while, and of course Jeff Skun Baxter just like you know, we had this background vocalist and steely Dan he's okay, you know, he's not that.

He's not not gonna replace Tom, but we can maybe continue the tour if we all split vocals, if he sings a little plays a little piano.

I think we can because Pat was gonna collapor.

They were like three shows into this tour when Tom had the medical issue.

And that of course is Michael McDonald who comes in and they do this tour and it's like, you know, this guy's pretty good, and they Tom comes back for a little bit and they have I think, one tour together, and then Tom goes off on his own, and of course the rest is history.

Michael's in there for a long time.

But then they in the eighties, the band comes back with Tom and Pat at at home and now they're all together.

I think they're to me.

In the back of that book, I write an essay about how underappreciated I think the DeBie Brothers are sure.

Think about original members being in a band, of what they've done, of how they've started, and what they've been through, and you know, I think they're incredible.

I really think when you talk about great American bands, for me, whether it's the Eagles, the Dead, you know, Kiss, Metallica, whomever you have to for me, put the Dope Brothers in that mix.

They're substantial for what they've done and what they continue to do.

They just released a great new record, you know, and it's like, how many legacy artists at that level are doing that well they're doing it.

I haven't heard it.

I haven't heard that.

I don't think i've heard that anything off of that album, But I did watch on YouTube a recent concert that they had.

This is maybe two three years ago.

They're just so tight, you know, just amazing on stage.

The show they put on, no pre recorded anything, that is as real a rock and roll show as you're going to get.

That celebrates every form of American music and then some and again.

I you know, when you write a book with people like that, one of the really fun parts is you get to see them play all the time because oftentimes you're doing some work on the road.

You're just sort of absorbing getting into that circle and immersing yourself in that world, which as a writer, for me, that's something I rely on to really get a sense of what that world is like.

And Seal, I want to see all the shows.

Oh yeah, I don't blame you.

You keep in touch with all of these guys.

I know obviously phil Colin, you're a friend with him.

Now I'm going to see Pat.

I'm leaving tomorrow to visit family in New Hampshire.

I'll see Pat.

I don't know when this is airing, but a week from right now, I'll see Pat.

Now.

I heard the new record a number of months ago.

I was on MAUI visiting Dave Mason and went to Pat's house and he played us the album.

Now they I don't believe you can go through that kind of writing process if it produces a good book, and not be friends for life, because what you go through writing it, I mean, it can be heavy.

You know, you're sharing things in many cases you've never shared before.

So there's a bond that develops of trust that goes beyond a book.

You become good friends.

And yeah, you know, I'm proud that most of the books I've written they're brothers, I mean, their family.

And that's how I hope it'll always be.

Podcasts will be back after this.

Surely you can't be serious.

I am serious, and don't call me.

Surely let's talk about the Dave Mason book only you know and.

I last week up into vat.

I mean again, these are relationships that you visit like you visit family.

And yeah, Dave's book, but see Dave's is funny because this is where I began learning that if you do well on someone's behalf.

Like the Simmons.

They called me one night and Pat and Christ said, we had dinner with Dave Mays.

They're good friends.

At that point on Maui and the subject of book came up and we told them about you.

Would you talk to Dave Mason?

And I said, like, are you kidding me?

Like I grew up a huge Dave Mason fan.

Again to me, he's another unsung person in the Rod family tree when you really look at his story.

And so I met Dave and then the same thing happened.

Feeling Alright is a song that will be forever, that will outlive all of us.

Everybody knows that song, but not just that.

I mean, he's He's on all these recordings by the Spencer Davis Group, Give Me Some Love, and George Harrison's All Things Must Pass album.

He's on There the Stone Street Fighting Man, All Along the Watchtower.

Hendra the Man said with Paul McCartney.

Yep, yep, co founder of the band Traffic.

He's got some untold tales in this book.

He does.

And to that end, his book was really fun to write.

You know.

He had a complicated relationship with Steve Winwood.

That's being polite, Yes, very complicated.

And that's all in the book.

I mean.

But as the strangest thing happened when I was in high school in the seventies.

I went to see Dave Mason.

There was a girl I was trying to take out who was a Dave Mason freak.

I was, I think a senior nigh school, junior high school.

And Dave every year would play.

There was a very famous music festival in New York City at the Woman Skating Rink.

It was the Schaefer Festival to the Doctor Pepper Festival, and Dave played it every year.

Everybody played.

It was the greatest festival.

Four dollars for orchestra, two dollars for balcony outside under the stars.

So we go see Dave Mason, Pablo Cruz open.

It was a great kind of early yacht rock sort of show in seventy eight were right up front and that was a great men.

So I'm at Dave's house.

We're going through boxes looking for pictures for the book, and I find an envelope that says CP seventy eight.

I'm thinking, can that be Central Park seventy eight?

The pictures are taken from backstage looking at and I find myself and Kathy in the third row.

I said to Dave, that's.

Me and my day.

So sometimes these circles complete in ways that you can't even see coming.

You know, it's really something.

What was his issue with Steve Winwood?

Was it over was it over money?

Creative decisions?

I mean, my opinion and the way he speaks in the book and my take on it is that when Traffic started, you had Chris Wood, Steve Winwood, and Jim Capaldi and Date.

Those were the four and they went off to a cottage where they kind of cut off from society and made the album No Electricity like again Generator and worked on it out there, and I think right out of the gate, Dave's song writing disciplines and styles were a little more commercial.

Those guys want to just kind of evolve and see where it went.

Dave did too.

But Dave wrote this song called Hole in My Shoe, which became a hit while they're making it dumb and everybody seemed to resent that in the band, saying well, that's not the sound we want, this kind of poppy, and Dave's like, well, we shouldn't have a sound.

Anything should be and they were like, well, yeah, anything but that, and Dave was like, well wait a minute.

I know some friction started there, and there may have been.

I mean, look, when would at that part point is a huge star when traffic starts.

The other three guys no one's heard of, essentially, and I'm not sure.

Again, this is my opinion.

I've never spoken to step one't about it, so I would never want to represent his view.

But if you look at the activity and listen to Dave's part of it, I think there may have been some sense of kind of threat that this guy can write big songs, and maybe that would have created a challenge for any kind of band leadership.

Perhaps, I don't know, could be.

It looks when was a genius.

I'm not gonna read into his things because I'm a Steve Winwood fan, but I think there were other things as well that led to it.

And also Dave left the band, I mean after I don't even know if the first album was out yet, but he left.

He didn't, he couldn't, he felt too much pressure.

He's like nineteen years old.

He has his brutal breakup with a girl.

He goes to a Greek isle and that's where he writes feeling all right, yeah yeah, And coincidentally he's in New York.

A few months later, he runs into the guys in Traffic and making the second album.

They kind of make up and they make and that's on the second Traffic album.

But then other thing.

The book opens with this incredibly dramatic scene which is kind of like, uh, I don't know, it's like outas the Sopranos where Dave Ghost is invited to a band meeting, which is really kind of a hit because he goes in there.

They're all on one side of the room, Dave's on the other, and they fire him from the band and he's like he thought they were going to be discussing a new tour or something and uh, and that's how that went down.

So it's like I said, it's I think it's a really interesting book with a lot of cool stories like that.

What did he have to say about we just disagree, Well, he.

Didn't write that.

That was you know, a guy named Jim Kreeger, who was his guitar player, who who's who's since passed away, amazing singer, guitar player who brought Dave that song and Dave said, I mean, Dave I thought was great because he was open to that from another band meet because he thought it was a good song.

So that's actually Kreeger's song and it's Dave's biggest hit.

Uh you can hear Creaker singing background on it, and yeah, so that's I mean, Dave's written a lot of amazing songs only you know and I know you know, let it flow.

But but but we just disagree.

I mean, feeling all right, but we just disagree was actually written by his bandmate.

Now, one more question about Dave Mason before we move on to the next one.

But he did play in Fleetwood Mac.

And I believe that was early nineties.

Wasn't that right before right before they reunited with that famous lineup.

Well, and to hear the story about it, it was, you know, Dave got brought in.

Not a lot of people know about that.

No, and it actually they released an album.

It was Christine mcvee, John mcvieh Mickfleetwood Beca Bramlett, Bonnie Bramlett's daughter.

And you know what's interesting about it, Dave would play some of his songs at the show.

They weren't packing arenas like Fleetwood Mac Fleetwood Mac, but they did with Crossing Stills and Nash.

They did play a lot of shows and they toured a lot.

Yeah, I remember they played at Toad's Place in New Haven, which is a small club two three thousand people.

And I think what happened is that ended up inspiring Lindsey and Stevie to kind of come back.

I think having it out there, in some way it became a pathway to the dance, the famous reunion in the early nineties.

So it did serve kind of a weird purpose in helping to spark the reunion of the band.

But they I loved that.

He and Mick Fleetwood are great friends.

Mick I spoke to him for the book.

Mick wrote a really nice piece for the book, and you know they go back to late sixties with traffic and early feet with Mac, Peter Green and all that.

But yeah, Dave did was a member of Fleetwood Mac.

That's cool.

Tesla one of my favorite bands to come out of the eighties.

You co authored the twenty twenty book with bassist Brian Wheat titled Son of a Milkman, My Crazy Life with Tesla, and he lived the sex, drugs, and rock and roll life style to the hilt, but it came into cost that took years for him to repair.

And tell us about that, he really opens up in this book.

Whenever you write a book with somebody, for me anyhow, I like to find, Like I always say, if someone's really well known, My first speech to the Mozeau is, let's write a book as if nobody knows who you are.

Let's take that point of view to really explain things and share things, almost like it's a fictional tale, because most rockstar lives do read like fiction.

My point always the fans will always get the book, but what about people that don't know about you?

What can we share that's going to pull in people.

That's just like a good story that maybe you've never listened to Tesla And with Brian, what I'm very happy he was open to was sharing health issues that came up, and things like shaming and being overweight and having anxiety, things you don't normally associate with that with that lifestyle.

To Brian, it was important to put that in the book, especially to let other people know they're not alone.

And that made his memory, I think, very different from other ones, and that there was this human element of very non rock star related traits and stories.

He was out when he was promoting the book, he had a story I believe it's in the book.

I'm a huge fan Halen fan.

So the story was that David Lee Roth was going to manage Tesla.

Am I getting that right?

Yeah?

I have to look at the book, but yes, that's absolutely true.

He was involved, thought loved them, and it was almos almost like the way Geene Simmons first got involved with Van Hale and like you see a band that you think is gonna I don't know what happened to reroute that, but no, he was absolutely there and present.

There were a lot of people early on that really loved Tesla.

I mean, def Leppard took them out on the Hysteria tour, you know, and they were almost like the baby band for def Leppard back then, you know, because def Leppard loved them.

Phil Colin wound up producing some Tesla later on.

But yeah, Brian and Brian also had a really good memory for stories.

That's not always the case in some cases you've got to do a lot of interviews to substantiate things or fill in some holes.

But you know, Brian was really sharp with those stories and that was a fun, slightly easier to book book to write as a result.

Leif Garrett his story is pretty well known I mean, this is a guy who's survived a lot of teen idol on top of the world drugs let him down a dark path.

What can you share from this book from twenty nineteen you co authored with him.

It's called Idle Truth.

Yeah.

I could probably write a book about writing that book.

Yeah, there's a lot of things.

When you how did that come about?

By the way, how'd you team?

Uh, there's actual story behind it.

When I was growing up in the seventies, I wasn't a teen idol fan.

I mean I was in the late seventies into the Rolling Stones and the sex Pistols, the Ramones.

But I was aware of who Leife Garrett was.

How could you not have been?

It was really he was the heir apparent to Shaun Cassidy.

And I was at a party in I must have been a senior in high school and this girl and I were sitting on a couch watching the TV and that was the night that the Leafe Garrett Variety special was on.

He was the youngest network star to ever.

I was on Variety and talking about like time changing, was Bob Hope, Flip Wilson, Laithe Brookshields, Marie Osmond, real pop cultures now and we're watching the show almost ironically like it's a spoof.

But I remember saying the girl I was talking to, you know, it's almost like he gets the I think he seems actually pretty cool, like he's he knows there's this is all fake.

He had a real kind of innate sense that struck me, and then I learned we're basically the exact same age.

And then all through life in the eighties and nineties, when he would pop up on the news infamously for like a drug arrest or an accident or something, I always looked at him.

I thought, what happened?

You know, like when you when you're the same age, you've gone through guy, but twin sister, we go through things at the exact same pace.

And I kind of felt that with Laife, and I felt bad whenever I would see him.

I thought, you know, there's a story here, that many stories here.

And then in the UH it was around two thousand and so a VH one did that Behind the Music episode, which was like, I mean, everybody, I think it was the highest rated episode.

It was mind blowing.

Yeah.

Yeah, he meets up with the front of his that was in a wheelchair because that for those who may not know that story, talk about it.

When Laife was completely at the apex of his fame, he was driving his Porsche.

A buddy was in the car.

He rolled the Porsche down and his buddy was permanently paralyzed.

He died just a few years ago.

Oh I didn't know that.

And he was a dancer, right.

God while we were writing the book.

In fact, oh Man, I told Laife that he died.

He was a dancer, right, that was he wanted a career.

Yeah, And they weren't actually really good friends.

Was he a biker, a dancer, a skateboarder?

It was something.

He was a dancer, and just sort of like la had a lot of these people.

They'd all hang out and it was a place called Flippers.

It was like a roller disco place i Los Boulevard, and so anyways, I saw that episode about Laife and I hadn't thought about Lafe in forever, but it really struck me because again, were of the same age, and at that point I married a couple of kids and gave a life, and I'm looking thinking what's happened to this guy?

So a few I want to say after I've written a few of these co written memoirs, I thought, what the hell, you know what, I hope Lafe is telling his story.

I found out whose publicist was, and I wrote her this letter about if he ever wanted to write his story, an approach that I think would be effective to take, and I laid out a whole thing just cold call.

I'd never done that.

I had never any book I'd written at that point developed out of a personal relationship.

I had never cold called anybody, essentially, And she wrote me back a nice don't and said, you know what, he doesn't really want to write a book, but we liked your note, like it really was touching and thoughtful, and we appreciate that.

And that was maybe a couple three years later.

She writes me back and she says, you know what, I don't know if you remember us, but I'm Lave's person and he wants to write a book.

And we never let go of this letter.

And Lafe's been approached by a lot of people, but he'd like to talk to you, and he didn't talked to anybody about doing this.

So I go up into the mountains overlooking Malibu, up into Pancacauson and it's an end of the road, like I mean, no GPA, no nothing, you know, and it's this end of it, literally the end of the road.

There's a trail that starts there off into the woods.

And that was the first day I'm at life.

And we bonded that day.

He made me breakfast and we just started talking about our favorite albums in the seventies and we were just like instant best friends.

And he's like, would you please write my book with me?

And he said, dude, we're doing We're going to do this, and thus led into this couple of two or three year process that are lots of ups and downs.

I'm very proud of that book.

I think that book tells a very gritty and raw story.

But it wasn't easy.

And like I said, there's a story within the story that me I may write about at some point.

It's tough when you work with somebody who signed what's called the Collaboration Agreement that protects certain privacies.

And I've never ever gone against that, you know what I mean.

People are entitled your own business and privacy.

But it was tumultuous.

It was there were a lot of great moments in there, and you know, I guess that I'm very proud of that book.

How does he somebody like him in his position, there's many who've gone through it financially, how do they what?

What does he do to to support himself?

I mean he's been on TV shows, I've seen him do.

Yeah, it's a good question.

I'm not really sure because the number of years have gone by.

I know that there was there was some property left in a in a state.

There's stuff like that that exists.

To what degree I don't know.

I think there's probably still some kind of royalty thing from other things he's done.

There's nothing really from part of a cookie by the way.

Oh, absolutely, does he work steadily?

You know?

Does he get gigs?

Does he go out and tours?

Does he do like the Yeah?

Not to my knowledge.

I mean, while we were writing the book, he would occasionally do a little set at the Whiskey Go Go couple of songs.

But for Laife it was always frustrating.

Is him wanting to separate from the nineteen seventy Leafe Garrett and society doesn't always let you do that.

They want you to be that person.

And de Laife's credit.

Artistically, I always thought it was cool that he wanted to do new things and try new things, that explore new things.

I think you're as an artist, you're entitled to that.

And yeah, he's a rocker.

I mean he's a rock and roll guy, right.

Yeah, I mean again, he and I grew up in very similar mindsets.

We saw the same concerts, we listened to the same things.

We were really tight.

So yeah, he's rock and roll through and through, but he wasn't allowed to be that guy.

They would when he I mean he would secretly mix in some Zeppelin songs when he would play back then, just to scratch that isch, you know.

I think they mentioned that in the VH one special.

Yeah, he would do that, and that helped him cope.

It was like a coping mechanism, you know.

But look, being a teen idol is not easy.

What you get put through, what the expectations are, and the lack of control.

I'm sure for all of them back then, whether it was David Cassidy or Shawn Cassidy or life, you know, it's hard.

It's a really and the shelf life it's it's not long.

Two years, yeah, two years, that's it.

But you know what, what I learned this is in the book, so I'm not speaking out of school.

After the accident, he really couldn't do much here because the accident was very infamous and there was gonna talks of a trial and all this.

So and at that point he was kind of coming to the end.

He's a couple of years in now, so his life cycle as a teen idol was sort of wrapping up.

His management was very shrewd back then.

They realized there were parts around the world, like in Far East Asia, that were a couple of years behind us culturally, and they thought, let's throw let's take him to Korea.

Let's take him over there, and it's like they've never had him.

And so they've basically created a new career to keep the Golden Goose laying eggs for another year or two out of this country, where the accident over there wasn't that big deal, you know, And they got him in the magazines and so for him, a lot of the things restarted over there.

Booked on rock podcasts.

We'll be back after this.

Don't go away, gentlemen, we may need all of you.

Not too long ago, the news hit about the falling out between Hall and Oates over their song publishing.

You co author John's memoir from twenty seventeen, Change of Seasons.

How did he meet Darrell Hall?

What was their relationship like through the years?

Were there was there always tension between the two?

Was that more recent.

They met in Philadelphia, both going to school.

There was a battle of a band.

It's basically, and I think of the not the Uptown Theater, another theater in Philly.

Their bands are both going to play their backstage shots ring out in the theater, and so John and Darryl's band gets pushed into a service elevator where they're going to escape, and they're face to face and they're like, what the And they start talking in the elevator and they're like, well we should hang out.

And that's the spark of it.

That's really where it starts.

And then one of my favorite parts a lot of these books, for me, the most interesting parts are before the people are famous, because once they're famous, you know a lot of that stuff.

But there's a fascinating sequence set of sequences in John's book.

And John, I will tell you, of all the books I've done, I think John's is always going to be in a way.

It's especial on a real, on a big level because John as a writer, we collaborated, We remain great friends.

I am really fond of John.

Oh it's as an artist, as a writer, as a musician, everything, and you know, we wrote very closely on this.

But the other secrets in the book I was referencing was when John gets out of college in like sixty seven or so, he does what a lot of them do that he went to Europe and tradesed around for three months.

Right.

He and Daryl are friends at that point, but that's it.

They've not worked together.

And Daryl gets his sister to rent John's apartment while he's gone.

John says, hey, would Kathy sub let my place?

Yeah, no problem.

John comes back three months later, there's a padlock on his door.

She didn't pay the rent.

So John's been evicted and he's got nowhere to go.

He walks down to Darrow's place and says, your sister kind of did me in here, and Daryl has got a little loft apartment and says, just stay here.

That's what put them in the place to start making musics.

Oh my god.

Right, so wow, that's we would walk the streets of Philadelphia before the book came out, did a little video series like Okay, here's the apartment.

If you don't get evicted from this place, maybe you don't get to this place.

And we went to Darryll's place and the fact they were forced to live together, that's where they start really collaborating.

That's the spark of I mean, the mailbox was haul and oats.

And when did things start to go wrong for them long into their career.

I don't know.

I mean, look, I saw all on outs play.

If I saw them once, I saw them sixty times working on the book.

I mean again, they put on great shows, sold out every arena, every theater.

Whatever.

It caught me off guard too.

I mean, look, there's always artistic tensions that I think exist, or disagreements, but I've seen that a million times.

Sure, you know, so what happened was nothing.

I was privy to it, and I was, you know, surprised, like everybody, was it that happened?

You know?

Yeah, surprised for sure.

When he's on CBS, I think doing an interview with CBS's basically saying, you know, people think that when you see these bands, they're all buddies and everybody's getting along.

Yeah, he goes, we haven't.

We would for the longest time.

We'd show up at the gig in separate buses or planes or whatever.

Yeah, isn't a bad thing, because I think once you understand the business of it and the dynamics, you don't have to be friends.

You know what you're there for.

You know, whether it's Jagger and Richard whomever.

You know what the gig is and what can help it keep it going.

Sometimes you don't get sick of each other.

You're there to work, And I think you can look at it that way as well.

One funny anecdote in the book is, you know, they had a little stoop at outside their apartment in Philly, this little little place, and a girl walked by one day and John starts chatting her up.

And she's a flight attendant and her name is Sarah Sandy actually, but she also goes by Sarah And John writes a song for an album called the Album's Abandoned Luncheonet and and she says, well, I'm a fight attendant.

I'm going to Las Vegas with a bunch of gamblers.

They call it a Las Vegas.

Turnaround, you just go and combat that night, and John says, wow, cool, he writes a song cool, let's face turn around.

I think he may see her for a little bit, but she ultimately goes with Daryl Hall and Sarah Smile is written by her.

Was another breakthrough single.

Yeah, pretty much.

I mean She's gone and started once Aaris had to hit what She's Gone and sort of put that back in and pushed it.

But it's certainly Sarah rich girl though that seventy five, seventy six.

Yeah, but yeah, Sarah Smile definitely was an explosive moment for them.

But uh, you know, she being in their lives really affected their careers as well, because her younger sister, Jana Allen wrote Kiss on My List and Private Eyes.

So these meetings you learn with these people is one second, things happen and everything changes as a result.

So many hits their songwriting process.

Did they get it?

Did he get into that a lot about that chemistry between the two, how they wrote songs together.

Yeah.

Well, the thing about them that I think really helped was you'd a variety of sceos.

They would write together, they would write apart.

Jana might have an idea, so you had a female point of view, you had collaborations, you had solo things.

So if you listen to Hall and Oates hits, none of them really sound alike, which I think is interesting.

If you look at She's Gone versus Sarah's Smile versus out of Touch, they all sound different.

It isn't like a band where you can always tell it's them, you know what I mean.

There's not like a signature sound, and I think that's because the inspirations were coming from so many different sources.

Def Lepperd one of my favorite bands.

So let's get to Phil collins memoir Adrenalized from twenty fifteen.

He's the longtime lead guitarist for def Leppard, but not an original member, and long before he joined the band, he was really roughing it out in pub bands.

To talk about that and how he, along with def Leppard really had to struggle and fight their way to the top.

Work ethic huge with def Lepperd to this day.

Oh my god.

They That's the thing with them is that working class.

We call it blue collar over here in this country.

But yeah, Phil was in a very cool glam band called Girl before that heavily into Bowie and glam rock like Joe Elliott and when Phil joins the band.

I mean, they've had some success, but it's really I think, you know, uh, Paramania was obviously such a huge breakout record and Mutt laying and everything, and Phil's audition I think basically was the solo on they played him photograph and he went home and played came up with the soul and they're like, yeah, he gets it, you know, and yeah.

Having seen them and been with them a lot, their brotherhood is real.

I mean again, it's like they're as loyal to each other.

I love watching them kind of communicate with each other.

You see it when they play.

You know they've they've got it all where everyone's got each other's back.

Phil's like a soccer team in a way, and they are.

They're always kind of even when they're not together, there's a lot of communication and I think they're a very unique band like that.

I really do.

In a day where so many bands fragment, bad math, each other, break up whatever, def Leppard, I don't think you ever have to worry about that.

You know, they're good friends, they respect each other.

You look at what happened with Rick because Phil would say to me, you know, people always like would say, like, we didn't think you were gonna keep your drummer after the accident that caused him his arm.

And Phil said, it's so strange because it's the exact opposite.

Our thing was, why would it cost us our drummer?

He can still play and he's our brother.

We're gonna figure this out.

They never thought for a minute that was it.

It's not how they think.

It's so awesome.

They were talking about that in the past and I love that.

And that is a story in itself.

That is an inspirational story right there, the comeback of Rick Allen.

Like anything else, I mean rock and roll, it's hard to find a story like that.

There really is where that happened and they rallied and.

What he's tapping the he had like a fun when you're in the hospital bed to keep it from sliding down.

They have that foam thing at the bottom and he's tapping that with his foot.

His brother brought in a transistor radio from to listen to tunes with and that's when the idea came to Phil.

They first visited him in the hot was he and Steve Steve Clark, uh, you know, they didn't know what to how to prepare and they said right away he started talking about how he was going to get big in and do this, and they thought he was delirious for medication.

They didn't realize that was the plan.

And when they did realize, they were like, we're making this happen, you know.

And there again they're that band.

There's such a testament to that kind of togethernesstant just collective teamwork.

I think I love them for that.

And Phil does all the licks Steve Clark licks on adrenalized.

When Steve Clark died, sadly he died, he could not kick his drinking and he died.

And does Phil talk about that that was a difficult thing for him.

I'm sure, yeah, Yeah, they were like they were twins on the road doing that stuff.

And when Phil saw the light and began a straightened out, he you know, he couldn't get through.

It was and nobody could get through because you know, it's hard when somebody doesn't want to do it, and it devastated him.

I mean, there's a scene about him breaking down in the freeway after he's got to the studio to replace some parts and he just Phil just breaks down crying at the behind.

It all hits him that seems not going to be there anymore.

And but again they got through that.

You know, they got through it.

They figured it out, and it's again, They're just such a remarkable band.

I love them and never gave up during the nineties, all the changes, the grunge era, all these things happened, and they could have Joe Elliott said, we could have.

I think he said somebody mentioned to him once, hey, maybe if he just break up just so you can have a comeback tour so you'll make more money or you know, draw more attention because it's a comeback to He's like, now we're just going to keep plugging away.

And then that paid off because now they're a huge draw.

And they they never altered what they did.

I mean, they stayed true to who they are.

Yeah, Slang was the only album where they kind of departed, but that.

But it's funny.

I was playing this time the other day.

I think that wreck.

I like that record, really interesting record and when they hung in and you know, they were one of the first bands to really appreciate I think years later the concept of co headlining today, it's like nothing but their management to think.

Okay, if you took Journey and def Leppard, I mean that really changed the landscape for a lot of bands and banged for the fans buck when you go out.

Allowed you to play in big venues.

Still yeah, the first bands to do that.

So Death was like, I'm going to see them in a week and a half.

So all this cool, nice summertime, chance to see old friends playing.

Booked on Rock Podcast.

We'll be back after.

This short pause.

Hold your breast for the dynamic duo.

Our guest is author, TV host photographer Chricepting.

We haven't gotten to the TV and photography part yet.

We're getting there.

But let's go back to two thousand and seven.

Your book led Zeppelin Crashed Here the rock and Roll Landmarks of North America.

You take readers on a journey across North America to the exact locations where rock and roll history took place, nearly six hundred landmarks, and I'm hoping you can share a story or two, like the Bob Dylan motorcycle accident location or the Buddy Holly crash site.

Did you go to these places?

Oh?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's the fun at writing a book like that is really exploring, you know, what's there, and I mean recording studios, concert sites, death sites, accidents, everything.

I think one of my favorites is a street in New York City, Saint Mark's Place, down in the East Village, and there's big building there that the Rolling Stones when they did their famous Waiting on a Friend video where Mika is sitting there and Keith down the street and they connect and you look at the building and it's the exact same building that was on the cover of the Lad's Up and album Physical Graffiti.

So here's a landmark that kind of lives in two different rock history moments, which I think is really cool.

I located the exact site of the stage at All Timont, using aerial photography and all this to locate out on the it's still an open field day by the racetrack, but I wanted to identify the exact spot where the stage had been.

I went and found on the stage in Monterey, upstate in northern California where Jimmy Hendrix neil and lit his guitar on fire.

So I'm into stepping into those kinds of places.

You know, and yeah, I did a lot of those.

The Skinnered Plane crash site.

Did you go to Spinnard tickets to see them that year?

You know, in Madison's Hilly, I saw my ticket to the show.

You go to places like like I mentioned the Buddy Holly crash.

I mean, there's there's an eerie feeling that you must get when you're there.

Buddy Holly one is actually amazing because it's still kind of the middle of nowhere, and fans have created kind of little shrine to it, you.

Know, and that's where again that's in Minnesota.

Or where it's in North Dakota, North Dakota.

Yeah, Yeah, you've been to so many of these places.

Well, that's the fun of it.

I mean, when you go into a recording studio Sunset Sound in LA and you think about the Stone doing Excel on Main Street, you think of Van haleing there, you think of the doors there, little tiny as big as this room, not big fancy studios, a little kind of out of the way places, and you think about what happened in there, and you begin to reflect on what it was like when they were there, and what it sounded like and what it felt like.

And for me, that's really the exciting part is stepping into those spaces and feeling that energy that is oftentimes left behind, you know, And.

That's what I say, that's yeah, you get that eerie feeling, you know, like that's just one of the books that you've written on this before that.

You find places.

Sometimes.

There's a place in downtown La called the Morrison Hotel was an actual hotel, yeah, and the doors.

Henry Dilts photographed them famously.

He wasn't allowed to, but they kind of got in and did the shot.

The back cover of Morrison Hotel is the band at a little tavern that was called the hard Rock Cafe in down a few blocks away.

I think they walked to it, and it's funny it's no longer there.

But when the album came out, some British entrepreneurs saw that and Henry told me.

He called him and asked, does anybody own the name hard Rock Cafe?

They didn't, and that was the birth of the restaurant chain.

But anyhow, I wanted to go find again.

For me, it's about going and finding location.

And I go and I find what had been the hard Rock Cafe.

Today it's a store, but if you go in, it hasn't been gutted.

The pillars, everything's original, and it's like almost a little not a department, a little sundry store, you know, it's some little food, little items and things like that.

What was really cool about that, though, I think this is in that book is it's sort of like the Stones Zeppelin side in New York where it has a dual function as a rock and roll landmark.

Yes, the doors are photographed there at the bar, but in the nineteen whatever, whenever Beat It came out, is that what we tall eighty three, the Beat It video the Billiard Hall, That's what that was then.

So you can line up the pillars of the little store and that's where Michael Jackson too the Beating video, and that's where the door has hung out.

So you've got this great cross, you know, intertwining of rock and roll history.

Right, they have no idea.

Yeah, yeah, James Dean don but there are four altogether, right.

Yeah, they're like a series.

James Dean did here was the first one.

Meril Monroe died here, which is d y ed.

Each book has like five or six hundred places.

Elvis Presley passed here.

It's not about where he died.

It's worried about he played flag football in LA.

And then I did one called it Happened right here, I think, which is the whole kind of all kinds of locations all over North America.

So yeah, I you mentioned TV show.

There's a show called it Happened Here on the Reals Channel.

It was based on those books really about tracing footsteps of pop culture events, which oftentimes involve rock and roll.

Well, there will be an easy way to find all this stuff.

We can get to the links that people can go to afterwards.

But the James Dean Died Here book that, of course there's rock and roll songs, classic songs like James Dean by the Eagles, and Don McClain references it in his classic American Pie tell Us about the location on that day that James d.

Dowry.

He was at a gas station.

Just bea wasn't a photos taken of him?

He was getting gas.

Yeah, I retraced the whole day in the book.

What happened was he was going up to Salinas in northern California to race his new poor Spider.

They were towing the car, which was new on a trailer.

They stopped for gas in Shriman Oaks, California, and the mechanic says, you know what, you haven't driven this thing much.

Let's take it off the trailer, drive it up so you can get a feel for the car.

You don't really know this car yet.

This is the decision that ends, is like with several hours later, as they're up there, the mechanic is riding with Dean in the car.

The other guys are in the truck that was driving the trailer hitch and of course, in a little speck on the map called Shalam between Baker's Field and Postle Robliss, Dean comes up out of kind of a hill which you can't see.

A big car is turning.

They collide.

Donald turnip Seed is the driver.

Dean is not killed instantly, he dies.

They believe.

I interviewed the two cops who recovered his body before they passed O oh wow, believe it or not, and they think he died.

What's crazy is after they put him in the ambulance, that car had an accident on the way to the hospital.

It drove off the road, and you know, but they made they thought Dean might have still been alive them, but he died somewhere, probably en route to there.

And I just thought to call the book that because that represented all of those places that we passed by every day and you don't know what happened there.

So the book is about lots of those places, and to me, James Dean Dieier, that's just sort of the He's always going to be one of the great pop culture icons.

And that book for me was a game changer.

NPR made it like their Book of the Summer.

It's weird, but like in whenever it came out in two thousand and one or so, offbeat travel wasn't really yet a thing, that kind of road trip looking for movie locations and all that kind of thing.

There wasn't a lot of it.

And this book became kind of that, and it built an audience pretty quickly, and it allowed me to do sequels because clearly, you know, the book did well enough improved that people wanted those kinds of places, movie locations, crime scenes, accident sights, whatever, just to make sense.

For me.

It started as a kid in New York I read an article about marily Monroe's dress and the seven year itch word billowed up over the subway grading, and I didn't really know who she was, but it said that the subway grade was at the northwest corner of Lexington Avenue in fifty second Street, And the next time we were in the city, I like dragged my parents over there just to find it.

And I found it and I thought, nobody knows this but me walking around that day and that was the moment.

That was the spark where I thought, there's got to be a lot of places that we walk over, but something happened there and that literally I was about ten years old.

I never got that out of my system, and from that point on, I was always if something happened, I would think, where is that?

How can I go find it?

And that propelled me off into kind of where we are today.

Book on Rock podcast.

We'll be back after this suspense is killing me.

The Marilyn Monroe died here dyed is great.

I love this story because this is where she died her hair blind.

He went to the location there on Hollywood Boulevard, which.

Doesn't some people might mean that's frivolous, But when Norma Jean Baker becomes Meril Monroe and becomes a blonde, that does in a lot of ways change cultural history.

All of a sudden this icon is born.

So I don't take that lightly.

I think those moments do matter, you know.

And and again I think it's a little coffee place today, same building, and I was in there.

I think taping a little documentaries thing was and talking to one of the priests is like he was blown away.

He loved Meril Monroe and he could not believe that it happened there.

When people learn about these things, it redefines their feeling about it, and it creates like an instant emotional connection.

Sixty five thirteen Hollywood Boulevard.

Hey did you do the Almond Brothers site where both Dwayne Almond and Barry Oakley the bas is?

One year later, same place.

I'm an a Brothers so when I selfishly love a band, and I'll always kind of dig deeper.

So yeah, I have the accident sits I've got, of course, the house where they lived.

I went to the grave of Elizabeth Reid.

I went to the site of the wall where they shot the back of the front cover of Live at the Fillmore East.

So yes, absolutely, the Almann Brothers factor and a number of my books down to Macon primarily, and I've been there number of times.

In fact, I think they've done a really good job in the city of commemorating the Almond brother's history there.

Love that band.

Love that band.

Another title Elvis Great Band.

Elvis Presley passed here and this is he passed the football there.

He had touched football games with other celebrities.

This is where.

What was the park?

It's called Denev Park.

It's off of Beverly Glenn your son set right in really nice area, a little small park you would play Ricky Nelson's and I just helped that with a book with Gunner and Matthew Nelson Ricky Sons that comes out later this year.

And they knew about that, would tell me little stories about Elvis and all that their dad, So that was always kind of fun to kind of get their take on it.

That's cool.

Yeah, and I love Elvis too.

There are great Elvis sites, of course, all over the place.

And in that book there is a whole chapter just on Elvis' locations.

The book on Jimmy Hendrix, this is one Hendricks fans should get if they haven't got it yet.

It's from twenty twenty three it's called Jimmy and Me The experience of a lifetime.

A young screenwriter named Jonathan Stephachus with just one movie credit to his name, is invited to collaborate with Jimmy on a film, and then it leads to one of the craziest trips in music history.

Any stories you can share from this?

How did this guy meet Jimmy?

He was a college kid in the late sixties who, like a lot of college kids, would make a little experimental film.

He forgot about this movie even like in college, and he kind of wrote it.

It was like a nothing movie.

He gets a call one day.

It's like he's back living in his parents' house in like sixty eight and uh, it's a He summoned to mid toim Manhattan for a meeting.

They don't say what bring him in.

Our clients saw your film and for the film, you know, and then you remember, you mean that thing that Yeah, what happened?

Was it ran for either one or two days in London.

Whoever had financed this little film.

If it ran someplace, I guess you could recoup some of the money you had to get it shown somewhere.

Once on that day, Jimmy Hendricks happened to be in the theater and he fell in love, and he noted who the quote writer was.

Jonathan's like, I don't evemember what I wrote.

But they bring bring Hendricks in into the room and he says, I love your film man, and Jonathan, who's a Hendricks fan, is like really, and he says, I want to I want to do a film with you.

I want to create.

I want to collaborate with you, and they do.

But what happens is that, you know Hendricks at that point, his time is kind of weird, so we can't find a ton of time to collaborate.

So Jonathan just gets swept up in the storm at that time.

So there are really cool stories.

If I can share a quick one that's non musical related, but sure, it's so crazy.

Jimmy is up in Woodstock, New York, getting I think he's getting ready for the festival, which is going to be about thirty miles away in Bethel, and Jonathan's up there, and Jonathan has a friend who lives locally in Woodstock.

He's a beekeeper, and he gets called Jonathan's with Hendrix, and Jimmy says, where you're going?

Why my beekeeper friend got an emergency.

Jonathan goes and meets him, the beekeeper friend, who's got a truck, and he says, listen, my girlfriend and I we're moving our beekeeping thing up north, like I think, to Washington State.

We can't sell enough candles here.

It's just not work and can you lend us some money, like some seed money?

And Jonathan's like, do I go?

Ask Kendricks and he says, how much do you need to get?

This is about two thousand dollars that's all Jonathan has, which he has made.

He's a photographer too, he has sold a few Hendricks pictures already.

Jonathan's and the guy's look, i'll pay you back double if we want to make the money back, and we'll make it back.

Jonathan gives him the money.

They load all the bees up.

Jonathan gets stuck.

Hendrick says to him, what the hell happened?

I got friend with the Hendricks rolling his eyes.

I did.

You're never gonna see that money again.

He doesn't see the money again, but the friend moves up north and after a couple of years, the candle thing doesn't really happen.

But his girlfriend's like, we gotta shift gears.

Here we got the freaking bees.

She reads a seventeenth century book about the medicinal properties of bees wax, and she's like, you know what, let's make something non candle.

Let's think of some products that would harness this supposed health benefit.

His friend's name was Bert no Way, and I urged, Yeah, that's the guy.

I used that stuff every days.

That's the company.

Yeah, so that's again, that's a little weird storing the book, but it's still at first efoughts we put that in there.

That's too good.

You have to you have to find a way to make sense of it.

And the fact that Hendrix was like commenting on those things like okay, that's cool.

That that that gets it in.

Because Hendricks acknowledged effect of the bees.

That is so wild.

All right, let's talk about the TV series it happened here?

How did that all come about?

What was the show about?

You know, maybe say, share some.

Ten episodes we did.

I think they're on demand on the Reals Channel.

It's just you know, I had been approached by a production company, but adapting those books of retracing footsteps of famous places related to people, because I was doing that anyway, so hey, let's take Jonas Joplin.

I'll go to the bar where she has her last drink.

I'll go lay on the bed where she does all that guy thing.

And that's what we did.

So John Lennon, Marvin Gaye, Kurt Cobain, Janice, it's I'm very proud of the series.

Got really good response, and it's me and other guests related to the subject.

I'm kind of a storyteller that threads the narrative.

But then we'll have like Marvin Gaye's sister giving heritic, Richard Pryor's son, all that sort of thing.

And but what was a really fun show to do?

I like doing I like televised storytelling like that.

I like being out on location.

How long did it last?

How many seasons?

It was?

One season?

Ten episodes.

We talk about maybe another one.

COVID kind of got in the way of another one, Like we do a lot of different projects.

But we were talking.

In fact, the production company and I've been talking about something similar to that, like an updated version of it.

That great book podcast.

We'll be back after this.

Your Pants Pockets Hold Kids in the Future were the pants and sign out?

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Now back to the show.

There's a section on your website features your photography, so let's talk about that.

Some beautiful photos that I want to ask you about.

But first, how did you get into photography?

Always been a hobby as a as a kid.

I like nature photography, but the more music journalism I started doing, I would always like I would ask the subject if I could fotograph them in portrait for the story, but also to give me a deeper sense of what they were about.

Because it was a little photography session and at first, you know, not everyone agreed to it, but once they started doing it and saw that it actually enhanced the story, I would shoot everybody like that, you know, and it became a real fun part of any journalistic project.

And you know, I remember, like Steven Tyler, for example, where I would shoot me, let me see, let me seet me see.

He looked again, let me do that, and he started shaping the process just by looking at what, you know, which was cool.

And oftentimes this would be after I had spent a little time with them, so some trust had been developed where I don't go in like interviewing.

I would try and have conversations and if that felt good, then they would, I think, give you a little bit more as a visual subject, you know.

And I was always fortunate.

I was consider myself fortunate to do that, and it made for some fun pictures too.

And it turns out you took a picture of Ozzy Osbourne recently, and we've obviously lost Ozzy.

It's a great loss.

You took a photo of him.

I think it's dated twenty twenty five.

It's I think it's a little older than that.

It's a little older than that.

What's the story behind.

Me not that long ago, and it was like it's a non it's like a non Azzi photo.

I don't know if you have it up, I can post it.

But yeah, it's a very pensive because he was talking about this something that happened that particular day.

Some news had come out that was unfavorable in a certain degree to his livelihood, and some things related to to a tour he was announcing, and you see it.

I think in his face it's a very serious, pensive kind of look.

But I think it also presents a very sensitive part of him that was there.

I think our Ozzie was a far more complex artist, and he gets creditor.

I think he understood who he was.

I don't think he was a caricature.

I think he took himself more seriously than he let on, and I think he worked really hard at what he did.

You know, I think his relatability to people, it's kind of like def Lepard in a way that workman like, working class, get it done thing.

I think Ozzie was sort of the first of that.

You know, you're preaching to the choir with Ozzie and def Leppard two.

But Ozzie to me was just brilliant and the body of work is absolutely phenomenal, from Sabbath to solo.

Yeah, I'm sorry it was twenty fifteen, it says here, not twenty twenty five.

I think it's earlier than I think it's later than that, actually dated.

And I've shot him numerous times too.

Once we did it once and Sharon liked it.

Then you're in, you know, Then she said, oh, shoot us, shoot us, shoot us.

I did it a number of times.

And same thing with Aerosmith and Gene Simmons lou Reid, which huge was a am auge, huge lu read fan, And that was difficult and challenging, but totally worth it because he didn't like having his picture taking.

Evidently, I can imagine you.

Was it Gene Simmons with makeup, without makeup.

Without Well, I've done both, but it was without and uh and I'm super proud of those.

I'm a big kiss fan, same hell and I mean I appreciate and respect kiss and uh so yeah, you know, I like I like that, And when I write a book with somebody, I like to shoot them, you know, and like to get that going.

So I've shot John on anybody I've worked with.

I like to photograph just my own portfolio or just kind of give them something back that they may.

Like, beautiful stuff like the coyote and Death Valley.

Yeah, yeah, I guess I love nature photography and and I shoot a lot of birds.

That's really my favorite aspect of nature is bird life, So I still shoot a lot of those.

Well, people can see all of my percepting dot com.

And I was happy my son at that time, who was in college, he took up photography and then he would come all the shows I covered, and so he and I had a great time seeing dozens, if not hundreds of bands, and he shot everybody, I mean, just from the biggest of the smallest, from punk stuff on the Warped tour up to kissing def Leppard at the Forum.

He was always in the thick of it, which was which is really cool to watch him kind of chase his own dream there through Collin Booked.

On Rock Podcasts, We'll be back after this, think about the future.

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All right, let's finish with And I asked you through email if it's okay to talk about because I don't know how many people know about this project, but current projects.

You're working on a Paul Rodgers book.

Oh my god, okay, Paul Rogers, a guy who deserves a book, tell us about this.

When is it coming out?

When's a duout?

What's it going to be?

And he talked about us publicly, so I don't feel comfortable.

Okay, good while we were super quiet, but he talked about us when he was on Eddie Trunk and I met Paul.

I'm a interviewed him years ago and I wasn't sure remembered that, but about a year or so ago, somebody representing him contacted me, somebody I had worked with, and said, you know, Paul needs a book.

He's never really wanted to do it, but would you at least talk him about it?

And I said, I mean, I'm you don't have to ask twice.

I mean, Paul Rodgers to me, is you know if any Rock Royalty truly exists?

And he would hate me saying this, because he's very humble and very modest, But come on, if you're if you grew up when we up, you know, a bad company and especially free for me, I was love free.

Everything else is bad company.

The firm, the work he did with the firm, everything solo work.

The guy's voice is velvet, legendary voice.

And so we had a zoom call and I could tell he didn't want to do a book.

We talked about it and joked a little bit, and I think he realized that the process could actually be fun, and it could be wistful and a little nostalgic.

And he'd been through so many health things.

I think that shifted his perspective as well, because all of a sudden, now no one's guaranteed anything.

And how is he doing?

By the way, he had a heart condition.

Great, he had a number of strokes and hard things.

He's done great, We've been working on this for a year.

Our hope is that it's out next year.

A lot of work's been done on it.

I've done a ton of interviews for it.

Paul and I have had dozens and dozens of sessions where he has shared wonderful stories from growing up up through his entire career, from again the early days into Free into Bad Company everything after that.

So I think we have photos that are absolutely incredible and most people haven't seen.

This book is going to be really special.

This was all culminating around the fact that Bad Company finally got inducted into the Rock and roll Hole.

Ceremonial will be this fall, which is really exciting and a good thing for the book, And yeah, I am, I'm so excited.

I think Paul is really he's one of the most graceful rock stars you'll ever meet, because he really is modest, and he really is He doesn't carry himself in a way that some people do at that level.

His humble nature I think belies the ferocity of what he brought us, The soulfulness, the blues based just you know, unmatchable passion that he brought to the those hits and deep cuts and everything so solid and amazing guitar player, which people don't know a lot about.

Really.

I saw a Bad Company with Leonard Skinner maybe ten fifteen years ago up in the sight of Woodstock there Bethlee, New York.

Yeahah yeah, when he started when they broke into Seagull.

I mean the goosebumps, I mean just goosebumps listening to him sing that song that is That is my favorite deep track of his from Bad Company.

It's a new tribute record comes out this fall.

It's announced where a bunch of artists have done Bad Company songs and Joe Elliott and Phil Collin do Segull.

So you'll love that.

Oh that's fantastic.

Well, I cannot wait to have you on to talk about the book when it's out.

I can't wait.

Like I said, I am so excited.

I with Paul.

It's like when you realize who you're talking to and his seriousness to the That's the other thing too, the way he embraced the project and the seriousness with what he takes it.

His wife Cynthia has been a remarkable help.

Longtime manager David Spirou the four of us are kind of like this team and what we've been working on the last year.

I can't wait for the world to experience it.

I think it's gonna be I know it's gonna be a really special project.

And we'll talk about it once it's out.

Can you say who the publisher is?

No, that's still still being discussed and arranged.

So that'll be out soon, sooner than later.

Does he does he think he can go out and perform again or is that pretty much?

I don't know.

I mean, I think he could, but I think part of him likes his life now.

I think, you know, he lives in a couple of beautiful places, you know, I think when you come out of what he did from a hell standpoint, I mean, he's fine, but I think he feels like, you know, we don't know what we have left.

I live in these beautiful places with my amazing wife.

Let's enjoy this, you know what.

I mean.

They've got they've got their life and plug that and go on the road.

I mean it's cool, but it's really disruptive too.

Yeah.

Yeah, good for him.

If he's happy, man, that's all.

That's when the Doobies kind of blow me away.

In their mid to late seventies, the doobies.

I don't know what they feel like after you would think they're in their thirties.

It's right, it's weird, but but Paul can do it.

My favorite part of our our conversation sessions or when he breaks into song, because we'll be talking and saying, you know why I did that, and then he'll just start singing, I feel like making love, oh man, and you sit there, we all look at each other like really and he but he does that just sort of show you what he was doing, what he was thinking.

Yeah, does he tell you about when they recorded that first album there at the castle there and he's singing Headley Grange and he's out under the moonlight with the microphone.

Out a song Bad Company.

They's singing the song Bad Company out there.

They set up the equipment outside outside ron Nevison.

Yeah, took him up on a hill under full.

Moon and again goosebumps.

I could see look at.

The hair like that lone voice.

And that's a great story in the book.

But there's a ton of great stories you learn all about Paul Cossof and Peter Grant and all these other supporting players in Paul's life throughout the years.

And I've spoken to so many people you'll be super surprised.

I can't let onto the other voices in the book, but it's like a it's a very impressive group of people that really want to talk about Paul, their stories about him.

Quite a teaser, maybe twenty twenty six, I'm gonna say.

I think so.

Yeah, I'm very confident, and again I so applaud what you do.

Eric I seriously, thanks Chris all the There's a million podcasts and a million things to listen to, but but your content, what you focus on, the way you give author's voice, and the way you share stories yourself, it's really wonderful.

So thanks for what you do.

Seriously, I'm sure every one of your guests feels the same way that We're deeply grateful for the energy you put into this.

Thanks so much.

You don't know who's listening, you don't know who's watching, and you sent me an email out of nowhere.

I was like, are you kidding me?

I was listening to your podcast, I'm listening recently, and I'm like, okay, great episode.

Great episode.

Then I'm like he and I should be talking, well yeah, and you answered right back and it was like great, and here we are.

So you've got to get your own podcast, man, you gotta.

I would love to continue our conversation because again I realized is you're a great guy to talk to about it.

You're so knowledgeable, and I think you provide a really great service.

I appreciate it.

You got to get your own podcast.

You got a zillion.

Stories someday, but you know what, I'm going to give them to you for now.

That's right.

You give them all to me.

Some things when it comes to rock and roll stuff, but you know, get really fun.

And as I knew it was gonna fly by, it's like, I feel like we just started talking.

Yes, absolutely, well, let's talk about now.

Where people can find out more about you.

Probably the best thing is to just go to your website because it's got links to everything, all your books.

Yes, Chris Sting dot com.

I have an Amazon author's page that has every book and I've written again, and if you just search my name, I've written so many articles about music.

Those will pop up on a whole variety of places I've written for over the years.

Huffington Post, I wrote Ford Music Writing, n PR, Yeah, yeah, every place, La Times.

How many times.

A lot of stuff out there.

Ye, Chris hepting dot com.

I'll put the link up in the show notes as well so people can go right there.

So Chris, thanks so much.

Man.

This is awesome.

Eric, I appreciate man.

Thank you.

No, no, that was an adventure.

I was quite assure you put onto the well.

Let me just close this conversation by saying you are one unique individual