Welcome to tabletop tommies i'm johnny and i'm phil and in today's episode we're talking about all the changes to the minor nations that warlord has just released so if you are a fan of spot the difference this is a spoiler warning you probably want to turn off now and go and play the game first before you listen to us talk about it but if you don't enjoy playing spot the difference this is just the episode for you because we've gone and done the legwork for you the first thing of note off the back of that is the fact that they haven't highlighted these differences have they phil no it is a shame isn't it and and we've said it and the internet has said it like please just just different color that's all it takes like you're changing it at the same time just highlight it it'd be lovely and it's funny because end of v2 they suddenly realized this is a good idea and they start putting stuff in green it was really easy to spot from faq to faq.

And so yeah it's a weird one that they haven't done it the other elephant in the room we're going to go through nation by nation but i think the other elephant in the room that people have already been shouting about on facebook and other social media sites is that there were a couple of errors straight out of the gate like the finnish veterans were under costed and the french cavalry under costed they have immediately been amended yes so yeah yeah so they there was a couple of errors maybe some gremlins in the work uh in terms of the uploads but they have certainly the french and the finnish as of today as we were recording have now been changed i'm sure that if anything else comes out that gets spotted it would get changed pretty much pretty quickly as well yeah absolutely and now i think going through it the main things are so we're like, for not even four-man errors just things like capitalization being a bit quirky.

Were the only real significant errors outside of things you might disagree with rules-wise but shall we jump straight in alphabetically when we go through these, Phil?

Yeah, go for it.

So you say that we've done all the hard work.

Technically, you've done all the hard work and I'm going to comment as you point out the changes.

Indeed, I guess so.

Equally, though, you're very much going to be checking my checks here.

I will check your checks, absolutely.

Checks and balances and all that.

That's the one.

So Warlord, take note.

This might be worth referencing as a way to work.

So Belgium, first of all, alphabetically, the only change I spotted for Belgium was the FT-17, the upgrade to make it the T-15, gained an HMG for 10 points more than it previously was.

Okay.

Was this something that existed in VT?

Yeah.

Oh you're asking now for that you don't know the only reason for asking is because i do know that there was some feedback that went to warlord earlier in in the cycle which was a lot of these changes had already maybe appeared in v2 through the errata and actually if we could just kind of cross-reference and duplicate over changes to armaments as opposed to points costs for example, it would just bring the pdfs the v3 get you by pdfs in line with where things were at towards to the end of v2 maybe not completely the same but certainly you know in line with significantly so yeah absolutely i think that's going to come up again later that point so we should just maybe it's like asterisk that and then as we go through just add the asterisk so we'd have to keep repeating it but yeah the so overall you've got a 60 point yeah ft 17 but with an hmg that isn't pitifully slow and i actually think that's a pretty decent little purchase yeah i like that yes yeah i mean it's because you can put pins out unless it's a veteran armored vehicle yeah you're getting around the whole pitifully slow rule still got one man tarot there haven't you so you still need to take an order check on the advance.

So yeah but yeah and actually now now you're sorry and yeah you always run that risk of reversing don't you as well yeah yeah well what i'm thinking is take five of them for about 300 points plus command put them in our flank so you're taking the order test to come on anyway because that hmg is most useful in the side either way it's either useful in the side or if your opponent rushes you and so outflank five of them 300 points bargain yeah and with the change to the outflank in v3 the fact that you can then cancel the outflank bring it on your long table edge if it goes wrong if you've miscalculated or your opponent does something you're not expecting outflank is something and i'm sure we'll talk about this in in the next episode outflank is something to consider yeah absolutely yeah so that's all i could see for belgium so i guess we'll move on to bulgaria bulgaria the r35 got a five points reduction but the hull mmg became a coax mmg and i think that this is exactly what you just referenced when we're talking about belgium that they bring they've realized that they've moved the mmg v2 to v3 and now they've just moved it.

Back that's my suspicion okay so it's now what a turret mounted low velocity with a coax so you're only putting out one pin a turn rather than previously where you had the option of of the turret and also the hole mounted yeah absolutely so that not as good but i think it is more accurate is my understanding equally what i probably should have said at the beginning is if we've missed any changes here or if we make any mistakes please do drop them in the comments youtube's where we most actively engage so yeah drop it in our youtube comments for other people to see because there's quite a lot of pdfs here for us to go through so i wouldn't be surprised if i've missed something yeah absolutely let's move forward though because the next one is the one that realistically is the one we want to talk isn't it which is finland.

Yeah so i'm i'm wearing black today because i'm in mourning if anybody wants to buy some comms on the let's i've got six i don't need six anymore they're not worth it anymore they're properly costed or are they over costed now we will see well let's save us, it's a slightly later in the conversation because yeah i think we should go to some other things first which is the first thing i noticed was that the ot 130 was added which is the 35 point upgrade and it gives you 105 points flame vehicle basically that's the flamethrower one yeah yeah yeah so armored car flamethrower closed top armor seven coax mmg so even when your flamethrower runs out you've got something okay not bad i thought that yeah so that's the the vickers isn't it it's the vickers chassis but with the different different turret option.

I've just built well say just i built a couple of vickers using the double mgs for the fins but that's quite tasty actually i would i would consider that changing them maybe for a flamethrower one yeah yeah i had the exact same thought that 105 points for flamethrower tank is pretty decent and it's not unreliable which is what i was just pausing that i just quickly double check my notes to make sure that i hadn't missed that yeah because it's not unreliable 105 points are very reasonable yeah yeah so things like the the vickers tank and the stug don't have the unreliable rule because they were issued and used by Finland as opposed to being captured from the Soviet Union.

Yeah, absolutely.

So you've got all those spare parts ready in the garage, haven't you?

Yeah, I should do.

And then racing through the tanks, I don't imagine we'll deep dive these, but just a quick points overview.

The BT-5-7, those two, went from 96 points up to 116 points.

The T-34 went from 198 to 218.

So these are both unreliable of like increase in costs.

Basically they decided that unreliable isn't as bad as the first thought.

I actually think.

For these that actually those points weren't ridiculous the kv1 veteran only went from 305 to 316 so less of a points creep on him the stug which wasn't unreliable which you just referenced is now the same as the german entry i believe 220 good because that was a glaring i mean a bit of a howler a bit of a howler but basically because and you know we saw this at roll call for example you know finn's rocking cheaper stug stug threes was pretty pretty difficult to deal with and there's no real justification for why they were a different point score so i am glad that that has now been leveled out back to the german or not back to but in line with the uh the cost for a german stug yeah the funny thing is i actually didn't think i didn't think the cheap stug was particularly horrific like it wasn't so cheap that it was like it was an order winning games if you took three of them because it's only good against tanks so if your opponent doesn't bring tanks meh but it was just really frustrating if you're a german player and someone's brought the same thing but for cheaper yeah it makes a bit sad doesn't it funnily though the german one i'm just having a look is 215 so i'm just trying to see if i can spot the difference so now i'm playing spot the difference between the old rules the new rules and the new german.

Rules is it to do with the machine gun and how what arc it's got because the finnish one has got a 360 arc of fire does the german have forward front arc you've hit the nail on the head yeah the german one is forward facing mng and you can pay five points to upgrade to a 360 arc so there we go so actually 360 arcs both 220 yeah cool okay well at least it's consistent that's good the ba20 now he was 35 points and he was a bit pants because he's just got the machine gun he's gone up to 60 points.

I don't mind that bit because I never took the BA-20, but the BA-10, so it used to be, what, 97 points for veteran unreliable.

It's now, what, 72 plus 55.

So it's 127.

So 127 points for a veteran Armour 7 Recce, light AT, coax LMG, forward-facing LMG.

Have a look at something like the hum before because it's all the panhard or the the captured panzer spar wagon which is like 110 points i think armor 7 light 80 coax no hole but also not vulnerable now i would seriously you know second second triple guess whether or not i would be taking the ba10 anymore in a finish list for 97 points previously unreliable veteran light 80 recce armor 7 it was really good for 110 points i still think it would be you really good but 127 with the unreliable rule i i think that has now priced it out of my my comfort zone yeah and i think that's true for nearly all of the finished vehicles now yeah other than the flame tank all of the unreliable tanks now are they've been priced out the game basically with a pendulum has swung too far the other way now the we'll talk about the elephant in the room now i think the comm somalettes which is the one that highlighted the issue but also most clearly highlights the new.

Issue that's being created in the way that they've addressed this because yeah so he was 16 points regular 19 points veteran for an armor seven open top five man transport six man six man transport six man transport with an lmg yeah i mean it was ridiculously under costed let's be honest like i don't think anybody including us who have played fins in v3 i don't think anybody can say that it wasn't under costed yeah however and everyone was taken as many as they could physically model just to get their dice count basically it was like it was like taking medics just to boost dice yeah or you know or mule to Inexperienced mules, four-point inexperienced mule teams at the end of VT.

Yeah.

But now we've gone to 40 points.

And obviously a lot of people are very happy because now we're not going to see come some of that spam.

But actually...

We're just not going to see them because unreliable open-topped, 40 points regular, 48 points veteran.

We're not going to see them.

They're terrible because for comparison, in the Soviet force, they're 46 points regular.

So you're saying that unreliable is worth six points here?

Yeah, and the whole double pin, the fact they're open-topped.

I mean, we talked about this at the beachhead analysis when you and I played because you were pinning out, you know, my veteran console molets with just five shots you know and if i haven't got the dice to in our game if i didn't have the dice quick enough to activate to rally or to dismount whatever, it's not just the console molette that goes it's the unit inside as well yeah because you hit it with a heavy motor which like what i did was i hit with a heavy motor got three pins plus one pin four pins as you say you're now having to rally for that turn which means next turn if i get the first dice i'm going to put those two or three pins straight back on yeah and you're having to basically rinse and repeat and you're praying for first dice yeah now as you were saying earlier about going back and seeing what has come before as a reference with the faq in v2 was a 30 points 30 reduction so it was 35 points versus 50 and that was a sweet spot the unreliable for 30 percent was just the right amount where it made them tasty and worth taking okay but they weren't an auto include every finish list you saw didn't include com sommelettes and well and even if they did it wasn't to the extent we were seeing them yeah and they were still sort of like in the mix.

But they weren't an auto include and so 30 reduction it i think what's happened is we've gone down to a 15% reduction which is not enough in my opinion i think get them back down to a 30% reduction so we'll knock 12 points off we'll make them 34 points regular i think that's enough that it stops people spamming them but they're still worth playing interesting are you going to repaint your consulme let's the soviets and just migrate them across to that army no i'll just wait till the next amendment fair enough yeah so just just jump it jumping back to the non-unreliable vehicles it's just looking at this as you as you were talking there the tricks okay so for all those finished players who are now crying into their t-28s and t-20s that are no longer necessary have a look at the the vickers have a look at the the arm seven because you can take the light at version you can take the double double turret mmg version and now you can take the flamethrower version that's not a bad shout go like early early war finish if you really want to play things with armor early war finish where you're using the light 80 or the double mg or you've got the flame for a turret option.

Yeah, I don't know.

I think the Finns of what I said in the US episode, the Finns are suffering what the US is suffering now, where most builds that I try with the Finns, I'm now thinking Soviets will be better because then I can have all those infiltrators or Germans will be better because then I can have the Nebelwerfers.

What I did think about this morning when we were prepping for it is, I think what you'll now see is more traditional Finnish builds that we saw in V2.

And we haven't seen in v3 because the v3 finish build has been let's take as much armor as we can comms omelettes t28 maybe ba10s those three are now massively affected because of the unreliable discount changing so we may well go back to for those who do keep playing fins the more traditional foot slogging sissy advancing into ambush bonus from shooting from ambush all that kind of stuff yeah the big problem is the fausts are so expensive so if you don't go for an armored finish force and you come up against tank walls which is what is becoming quite prevalent tournaments yeah yeah definitely you're in real trouble and that was one of the builds that so mike jones at roll call had a brilliant finish build which was very panzer faust heavy panzer shrek heavy he'd overpaid for them but because he had that unreliable discount on his come summer lets yeah it nicely balanced out because he could push forward advance out of them into ambush, and it made the 15-point Faust worth it.

Now he's paying an additional 25 points for that trick.

For the transport, yeah.

It's not worth it.

Because he just won't have enough dice to hold the tank force back, basically.

At bay, yeah, absolutely.

I mean, luckily for me, I've kept all my sprues from my Rubicon tankette, so I'm going to go and dig them out and rebuild my turrets.

One other thing of note, which hasn't changed, but i think does need an amendment because i don't think the rules that's written match the rules as intended well it certainly doesn't match how we've been playing it and it came up on facebook is that trained huntsman says that all models when firing from ambush all models in the unit that are armed with a rifle including snipers gain an additional plus one to hit and now what that means is you don't have to fire the rifle rules as written now Now, everyone's always played at rules as intended that all models in the unit that are firing a rifle, including snipers, gain plus one to hit.

But actually, rules is written.

And the post got a lot of flack for this.

But I actually think they're absolutely right that if you are shooting a Faust and you are also armed with a rifle, that would rules as written be plus one to hit.

Yeah.

It's not new i when i even in v2 when i wasn't playing fins i absolutely remember this cropping up on facebook then and it's a similar semantics issue with bar's rifles fire maneuver all that kind of stuff but yeah the wording says armed with a rifle as opposed to when firing with a rifle.

Including snipers gain an additional plus one to hit bonus i'm sure half of the internet is now rolling their eyes at us going well obviously the intention is is when you're firing a rifle rather than you know you just happen to have a rifle strapped to your back but actually you're using a panzer faust however if we're going to split hairs and we're talking about competitive play in tournaments and so on this is the kind of thing that does come up and does need.

Clarifying or at the very least a to just to go we all know what it means even if it's not maybe what it says let's just move on and play the game yeah but we've just seen how quickly we can amend errors in these pdfs now because no ink's been put to paper here it's just a ditch it's just bites and bits on our drive um we could very easily quickly amend that to all models that are firing a rifle and that's the only one word needs to change basically so i hope we do see that change because as you say i've always played it as the models firing yeah but a hundred percent at the people who are arguing that actually the faust gets plus one rules is written i'm actually on board with it's just as intended i've never played it and i would hope most tos would put that in advance cool anything else you want to say about fins or can we move on to i've got a lovely finnish army that if anyone wants to make me an offer for it it's it's available.

For now until two months time when we get the next pdf drop maybe yeah and then i want it back and actually hands off everyone yeah maybe put it out on loan instead yeah so france yeah the one of the most major miners they again the r35 as previously discussed with bulgaria the hull became a coax mmg which must matches the historical vehicle and it's five points cheaper because you now can't shoot at two separate targets that's fine it does however mean that the r40 upgrade is now five points cheaper as well which is quite good but again same.

It's an upgrade to the base so it's the same sort of change, okay perfect then we've got the d1 so the shah d1 yeah like the shahs are pretty cool so this is quite good news in my opinion the d1 went the upgrade went from a five points upgrade to.

A 15 points upgrade but it gained a whole mmg but so it's five points more overall because the shah d1 is an upgrade on the r35 which is five points cheaper it's gonna buy 10 points so it's five points increase overall i imagine that was very confusing again going back to what we've said every single miners episode can we please just split these bloody tanks up like it doesn't cost anything to do it just split them up ashore is not anywhere near an r39 r40 r40 yeah they're very different vehicles there's no need for them to be under the same listing basically but anyway that's a separate note effectively what it means overall is the d1 gained a hull mmg and it's five points more overall the d2 upgrade went from 25 points reduction to a 15 points reduction so you're saving less points but it gained a hull mmg so again another pin out quite nice and it does mean that it's a 90 points unreliable armor 8 with a light at coax mmg and a hull mmg and i actually think armor 8 for 90 points with a light anti-tank rifle and two machine guns is pretty good yeah Yeah, Lions tank gun.

Yeah, no, that is good.

That is good, yeah.

Yeah, so I think I'm going to be running D2s if I'm running French.

Yeah, well, you're not running Finns anymore, so.

I found a new vehicle to abuse.

Moving on.

Moving forward.

That's France.

Italy.

No, Greece.

Sorry, I'm looking forward to Italy.

Okay, Greece, right.

Italy's going to be a good one.

I've looked at Italy.

Of all the different minors, Italy's probably seen the biggest changes, but let's not skip over the Greeks because they're important as well.

Greece's got no changes whatsoever, so we can move straight on to Hungary.

Yeah, I mean, I guess before we do skip from Greece.

We talked about Flame for Us when we did the PDF review because I know Russell Wright, for example, as champions greeks having flamethrowers in the past and i'm not necessarily saying just because a model is made for it it must be right but great escape games's range has greeks with flamethrowers so it might might have been nice given that you could take greek engineer squads but you can't take them with flamethrowers it might have been nice just to slip that one in but anyway yeah, the problem is if we wishlist i think we could be here all day couldn't we i totally agree though that these miners don't have a lot of other stuff so letting them have a flamethrower even if there was only a few in the wall yeah it's actually this is actually probably quite a good point to mention it because there has been you know a bit of kickback on on the internet and in the community that yes the pdfs have been updated but there are still things missing which people wanted and i'm going to sound like a broken record here because i've said it every opportunity what we've been told is that the development in these in these lists will appear down the line in the armies of books, whereas the PDFs are get-you-buy lists.

So moving into Hungary...

So there was a Nebel error where the Nebelwerfer said treat it as a heavy mortar.

It now matches the wording on all the other ones.

So it is a multi-launcher.

Nothing hugely noteworthy there.

The Taldi II, which was a nice little tank.

I have to say, I do like the look of them.

It gained reinforced front armor, making it a 42M Taldi II A for 20 points.

So that makes it armor nine on the front as per page 150 in the big rule book okay so you're now paying so obviously it's 90 points with the at rifle you don't want the at rifle let's bump it up to a light at gun so it's 125 points with a light at gun and then an extra 20 so 145 points for a up armored forward sorry turret mounted light at gun 145 points that's not bad yeah the The only complaint I have is it doesn't have a hull machine gun.

So you're paying 145 points.

You get an arm and iron on the front.

It's yeah.

If it had a hull machine gun, it'd be better in the game.

For those of us who just want to run it, this is good.

Cause you just get to run it.

Talking of things that weren't added though, Fortress Budapest, the Zrini two, the, basically the, the Hungarian Stug equivalent with a big case of mounted gun.

It still hasn't gained the heat rounds that it gained in fortress budapest and so in fortress budapest it could fire either as an anti-tank or as a howitzer yeah we haven't got that back yet which is a real shame because i think that had huge potential if it had that rule that it ended v2 with yeah yeah right should we go on to and the other major minor it's yes it's a lay yeah Now, Italy, straight out the gates, we have a change in their national characteristics.

So the old version of the national characteristics said that during the first turn of the game, the enemy cannot order their units to run as they cautiously probe the terrain in front of the Italian line for minefields and make their way across the barbed wire.

Now, the new version...

You'll either like this or you won't.

During the first turn of the game, the enemy cannot order their units on the table to run as they cautiously probe, blah, blah, blah.

Units deployed as part of a first wave can be ordered to run as normal to enter the table.

Do you see what they've done there?

I do indeed.

Yeah, yeah.

So my understanding is this has been added so that you can bring on fixed weapons, be that mortars or or mmgs or artillery pieces and we we talked about this in the english open debrief after warfare because we had to make a ruling for our one italian player where because of how we set a particular mission up there were no reserves everything was first wave what it meant was was that rules as written if we applied that the opponent could not bring on any fixed team fixed fixed weapons at all so i believe that's what it is this is basically to get around that issue whereby fixed weapons because they can't advance on the initial wording they weren't able to enter the table at all however because of how it's now worded it does mean that your vehicles and your infantry can run onto the table which kind of goes against the whole point of the of the sort of the fluff text if you like which is cautiously probing their way through minefields barbwire i'm thinking on my feet here and i don't know what the easier wording would be but rather than saying that they can run as part of first wave something as simple as all units in first wave with the fixed rule may run in the first term because that stops you from your infantry and your vehicles but it gets around the i can't bring my unit onto the table issue.

Yeah discuss the problem for me here like i absolutely agree with why you think they've done it i think it's the same reason to try and fix that problem the problem is one third of the time if you're playing from the rule book you're playing meeting engagement yeah and so one third of the time your italian national characteristic doesn't get to be used yeah unless of course there's one like sub plot to this which is if someone were to bring rangers and they led the way onto the table in the first wave then they wouldn't be able to run turn one but that's such a niche case that it's not really worth noting in and of itself but yeah one third of the time you don't get to use this rule on that note how does this interact with rangers because rangers make a pre-game move when they're deployed in first wave don't they so rangers can enter the table from first wave pre-game but then can't run.

On turn one yeah that's exactly what happens because it says during the first time of the game.

You cannot order units on the table to run and so because the rangers were part of the first wave but they're on the table at the start of turn one they can't run equally your infiltrators on that note wouldn't be able to run turn one so it's not like you're getting no use out of it in meeting engagement missions but you're certainly not getting the fun you previously were i mean to be honest i said i hated this rule because it's one of those nerf your opponent rather than boost yourself rules so i don't think it's a good rule anyway i think it might be worth just scrapping it and starting fresh with something would have been my thought do a little bit of place tests and try so find something fun and just replace it entirely because it's a bit of a tiger fear where yeah i mean yeah you know when armies of italy comes out next year whenever that is then hopefully we'll see better and more more varied we say that but equally like oh i've got a feeling that this might stain because i think they think it's thematic and we saw the reason i was referencing tiger fears we saw with tiger fear just lingered and lingered and lingered and it took a long time for it to just go away they fiddled and fiddled and fiddled has the same vibes where it's hurting your opponent rather than helping you i think just go away scratch your head come up with something more fun would be my thing because there's like ways to fix it you could say like vehicles can't run infantry and artillery infantry without fixed can't run that's how you do it like that fixes it but it's.

Still a bit fiddly and it's not a good rule so but there you go um should we move on to other stuff because actually they did get some fun stuff in addition to the faffy stuff bellissimo yeah okay what we've got so there was an error in the previous one where you couldn't add inexperienced men to the infantry section you can now add additional inexperienced men, that's just a thumbs up well done for fixing the error warlords, parish what is it paracadutisti paracadutisti yeah parachutists okay that's enough offensive accents i think they now pay only one point for fanatic because they've already paid one point for stubborn nice so when they pay the one point for fanatic they've paid two points for fanatic because the stubborn gets removed and so nice again just a bit of admin i think that's a good.

Colonial troops yeah so this isn't a change this is actually i've heard it's someone pointed this out to me yesterday colonial troops have the option of being mounted when you mount them, it doesn't say they get cavalry carbines yes you can't shoot on horseback so you can't shoot horseback yeah didn't we spot this as an error in i it's like armies of u.s where the philippines cavalry dunker cavalry carbines yeah yeah i think that was my response to to the person as well was like this this isn't the only instance of it but yeah just just write you know cavalry if taken and have cavalry carbines do you know what just give everyone cavalry carbines because the count is a rifle when you're on a horse anyway and then we never have to do any admin okay.

Semi venti semi venti light semi venti we're talking about the one at the bottom of page four yeah now when you upgrade it to a command tank yeah for minus 20 points making it 50 points total it used to gain a medium machine gun yeah and now it gains a heavy machine gun which actually 50 points for your command tank which is armor 7 it is open top and vulnerable but armor 7 command tank with an HMG I actually think that's really tasty yeah if you want to open up heavier options it's useful because it's got an HMG so it's going to pin vehicles if they're not veteran blah blah blah well again going back to the T17 discussion where I was saying take 5 and put them in out flank because these are all command, they get the plus one to come on they will get the plus one to come on yeah Yeah, yeah, nice.

And it's tiny as well, isn't it?

So it's really easy to hide.

Yeah, it is, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So that's a nice one.

I'm a really big fan of that.

We then have the L60 slash 40, which actually I think was an error.

It should have been the L6 slash 40 because that's what it now says.

So that's been amended.

It is now open topped when you make it a command vehicle.

And you also have gained the option to replace the autocannon with a flamethrower, which does retain the coax MMG, and that's a 20-point upgrade.

So that becomes the L6 Lancia Flam.

So what's that in total?

These are like ridiculously tiny, aren't they?

Or is that what I'm thinking of?

I think they are, yeah.

There's one in Bovington, isn't there?

and it's like it's like a shoebox kind of thing but yeah i always remember these being really cool like the little tiny italian tankettes with flamethrowers which you could hide behind a wall because they're so low and then just like burst through it shoot with your flamethrower oh funnily i don't think this is the one you're thinking of because this is the one with the turrets.

So you're thinking of the semi-venti flam aren't you i'm thinking of the yeah the whole mounted flamethrower one yeah that's on the tankettes at the top the l335 is the one you're thinking of i think ah cool okay so it's still there and he's 85 points for a seven plus but he is slow so i don't know but yeah he's the one that you're thinking of that's stupidly low yeah has a flamethrower the the l6 one is it looks like a sort of like a medium tank armor rate okay i think it's decent to be fair because while you're paying 120 points for a flamethrower on an armor age i mean the thing that is very noteworthy here with recce with recce that's exactly what is noteworthy because you've got lots of negatives you're vulnerable you've got one man no without recce if you take the phone for fourth line under the special rules oh yeah hold the page.

Because i i was about i was about to say there's not many flamethrower vehicles with recce, because i know from looking at the the u.s options yeah and that's intentional to be fair like because it's it allows you to run up hold someone down then run away next turn yeah i actually don't think it's overpowered particularly now that flamethrowers aren't as good as they once were but yeah shame he's not recce but still 120 points for armor eight flamethrower not bad yeah norway Well...

You've missed the biggest change to Italy before we get to Norway.

Sorry.

The biggest change is if you go to transport in the new PDF, you'll see your favorite unit of all time has been added.

You can now take a mule.

Yeah.

So actually, this is interesting.

So it's been added to the Italian PDF.

It isn't a common vehicle type.

Why does Italy specifically get a mule team?

Greece.

Okay.

Who should have a mule team?

Greece should have a mule team, surely.

If Italy does, Greece should.

I agree.

I think the argument is sort of thematic mountain fighting.

You bring your mules.

Well, that's what the Greeks did.

No, no, I'm agreeing with you.

But what I'm saying is I think that's the logic.

I don't think they're adding it because gamey people use them as a chip order dice.

They're adding them because if you've got a mountain Italian force, you want to go take your mules up the mountain.

So I totally agree, yeah.

The Greeks should get them.

A few other forces should get them i don't know i think the mule is a bit he's a bit gamey isn't he oh yeah 100 yeah let's be honest unless you're going totally fully thematic and i don't know like it's a gerber shager force and they all modeled correctly you're taking the mountain field guns without the gun shields you're taking mules then i'll be like that's really cool but yeah if it's like oh look at my mule who costs not a lot of points he's an extra dice that's it's a little bit gamey well yeah it's not a little bit it's very gamey i think we should have a special rule to mule teams where if you take a mule team you have to deploy your gun limbers attached to your mule yeah yeah and then that way it would stop people using it as a gamey thing yeah but it would allow thematic players to keep using it yeah but shall we move on to norway so no changes.

The only change i spotted was they've capitalized the w in team weapons so there's a stylized change there but other than that i couldn't spot anything really cool i imagine people like you said earlier people are probably pulling the hound if they were desperate to add some of the norwegian units yeah yeah but at least at least there was like norway's fine i guess it's not yeah yeah partisans partisans now there is a difference in the national characteristics okay but i don't know what the difference is here so i'll read them to you you tell me if you can spot the difference in the difference so the old rule says in addition enemies cannot outflank the partisans but must always come in from their own table edge when arriving from reserve that's the old version of partisans the new version says in addition enemies must always come in from their own table edge when arriving from reserve.

So the only difference in wording is they've removed the clothes that says enemies cannot outflank the partisans.

And so now it just says must always come in from their own table edge when arriving from reserve.

So you can still outflank the partisans.

You just can't come in from the side now.

Yeah.

I think it's, I think again, it's just a style change because it hasn't changed the way the rule works as far as I understand.

What it does mean i guess is you could technically put your unit in our flank now and then you wouldn't be able to arrive from the side you're still arriving from your own table edge if you're in our flank but i can't see i guess actually behind enemy lines you only lose your minus one when you're in outflank don't you yes when outflanking yeah it's not from reserve So if you outflank your behind enemy lines unit against the partisans now and come on from your own table edge, you don't suffer the minus one.

Correct.

Yes.

I actually think the old version was more clear.

Because people are going to get annoyed at that.

If someone tries to behind enemy lines, a partisan force, knowing full well that they can't come on from the side, but doing it so they don't have minus one for reserve.

I imagine the partisan player is going to be a bit like, really?

Yeah are we doing that but rules is written now that does seem to be the case, yeah so i don't know why they changed that both versions seem fine i actually think the old version was a little bit clearer yeah but moving on they added the shotgun profile in the special rules section of like the squad not nothing's changed with the shotgun it's just there which is quite nice to have the profile rather than the profile being part of the sentence got it yeah because the shotgun's not in the main rule book is it and this is what he talked about in the armies of yeah that's my big that's my bigger bugbear that this shotgun keeps appearing yeah and it's not on the weapons table but it it appeared so commonly in v2 that it just astounds me that it never it never made the cut into the rule book proper here's one you'll like though jumping forward artillery the light anti-tank gun now has a three-man crew uh yeah i did i did pick up on yeah that's cool yeah yeah great and another one you might like flamethrower team is now five points cheaper 40 points reg because it's still got the poorly maintained rule cool nice I still don't think they're hugely competitive but at least it's a 10 points reduction for running out on a three up well sorry on a one two three.

I mean, they're bad enough as it is, let alone that they're now running out on a one, two or three, but that is definitely for the next episode.

Yeah.

40 points at least.

I mean, I'll take any points reduction wherever it comes.

Yeah.

And then we have the thing that hasn't changed.

And I think it's just that we haven't, I don't think anyone sat down to think about this yet because I'm still confused by it, but the sniper and mortar team can still be vet and none of the other team weapons can.

And I'm still a bit confused as to why that is.

Yeah.

I'd pass.

I don't have a suggestion.

Yeah, no.

I just thought that was worth noting for anyone who was curious if those veteran sees, because we did allude to it in our Partisans episode.

Yeah, yeah.

And no changes to which vehicles you can take as captured?

No, there was a slight word and change, but it wasn't.

It's exactly the same, basically.

The word and change was so insignificant, I didn't actually put it in my notes.

Okay, sorry.

Right, shall we jump on to Poland?

Yes.

so poland nicely got an amendment which isn't actually a real amendment it's a rules clarification which was needed because we had a bit of an issue where someone might have emailed warlord support who then gave a ruling outside of the faq which then the person was then trying to use at a tournament which i won't state because i might identify the person to justify something that wasn't intended basically so in the old wording units equipped with lances gain one additional attack in close quarters but can't fire their carbines while mounted yeah and then they're discarded if you dismount basically what that meant was people some players were reading that to me that when you charge vehicles you get plus one attack roll yeah but actually when you charge vehicles those aren't attacks because it's uh god i'll.

Let you finish because basically when you charge vehicles you roll your dice and then that's the strength of your one attack that you get against the vehicle yeah so i looked into this a lot recently and i combed through the rule book it is an assault so basically what we're saying is that you can only use lances now against soft soft things i.e infantry or artillery obviously it would have been a bit stupid if you could if your lance gave you an additional attack when you're assaulting a vehicle but when i was looking at this a couple of weeks ago all the wording within the main rulebook about about assaulting vehicles is it is an assault and the old wording on the lances was when you assault so it was really difficult to find that the rules has written justification for not having two attacks against vehicles obviously though rules is intended they're not warlord we're not suggesting that your lance allows you to poke a vehicle twice rather than someone without a lance who can only hit it once, I'm just finding the reference on that because it's an assault.

So the wording basically is attacks.

What I was looking up is how the word attacks is used because you make one additional, in the old Poland wording, you make one additional attack in close quarters.

And now the way close quarters works against vehicles.

And I was just trying to see if they use the word attack because basically you roll one dice for each person and then you roll a single attempt to damage, which i would say is your attack and so actually if you are doing it by the old wording i would argue that you roll how one dice per person and then that would and then after that point would be when you'd get your additional attacks you'd roll two attacks at that damage however the good news is it's been really nicely tidied up so in the new wording units equipped with lances gain one additional attack in close quarters against infantry and artillery units yeah and then still can't fire the carbine still drop that answers if they dismount yeah perfect well done warlord that's really nicely cleared it up that there shouldn't be an faq about that now i don't think i can't think of a situation where that's going to be ambiguous now no i hope not please fingers crossed, R35 also comes up in Poland same change as ever five points cheaper Hull becomes Coax.

Right so we're into our last two romania romania interestingly there was a note in romania that said if you took faust for your cavalry there was a note saying but you can't fire these on horseback now that note was removed, but that is a universal rule that you can only fire carbines and pistols on horseback and so you still can't shoot your faust yeah i don't see why we need to remove the note because the note was actually quite nice for if you're not an experienced player and you haven't like really dug deep in the cavalry section yet okay the first army you build having that note that says you can't shoot your faust on horseback will stop you from accidentally doing it in your first game and so i actually think as much as it wasn't needed i had no i think we probably should just left it in because it's one of the rare times you can take a faust on horseback i can't think of anyone else who can really do it except maybe it's the germans i was gonna say yeah the germans will be able to only the um well i assume so the german ss squads but the cossacks can't pretty sure yeah then you'll never guess what's come up again r35 five points cheaper hull becomes coax i should just recorded that once now i'm gonna say it's almost like there was a bit of commonality between the vehicles and certain nations.

But anyway, there we go.

And finally.

Netherlands.

Netherlands.

Never to change?

The only changes I saw were stylistic.

So things like capitalization changed.

It did feel on a note of that, going through it, the capitalization wasn't consistent throughout which doesn't change the way you play the game but i thought it was quirky that they've made an effort to change the capitalization but it's still not quite there yet i'd love to see their style guide well see i i was not talking about this is to do with work but um i was having a very similar conversation in the last week.

About a situation where people have inherited documents and previous authors and previous iterations of it and they're trying to just start you know to um bring it all in line and it's it's surprisingly easy how how you can very quickly just end up with not quite your style guide but almost your style guide to the point where i was like we'll just start again like yeah just basically just start again set the standard and move it forward and it does feel like they're making a real attempt at this because actually when i was playing spot the difference and the easiest way to do it was basically just to have both pdfs and swap between them and you see the text move as it goes sometimes the text moved but not the rule like the rule didn't change and it's because the wording had been like just ever so slightly amended to match the style i presume they were copying from another entry to match and on this one this happened with the netherlands where, to become shirka i think it was previously the wording was a reduction of two points and now that's changed to for minus two points per man for minus two points per man which is interesting because it does say plus two points so actually using the minus two points it's consistent in that sense yeah it adds consistency within the one entry yeah so that's really boring but it's the only thing I could see that's changed in Netherlands.

Okay so that's all of the changes for the minor nations rip the fins I guess Yeah, yeah.

Keep an eye on eBay and the Bolt Action Buy and Sell group, guys.

Or just message me privately.

I think Poland...

Like didn't they're still a good minor nation if i'm what i'm thinking is what minor nation am i playing now if i'm forced to play a minor nation i'm thinking poland and italy are looking strong hungry hungry the problem with hungary is i'm just not inspired because i keep thinking i could do this better with germans that wasn't the question you said are they strong not are they inspiring yeah well i'm thinking what's my top three if i'm if i'm forced to play minors yeah so france not bad partisans interesting just because you can take those because i'm i still haven't worked out what your captured vehicle is for partisans yeah yeah it's the brittico isn't it i'm gonna i'm gonna start norway greece belgium in protest that you've ruined my fins so i'm gonna go the other way i'm not if i if i i'm gonna keep playing fins and i'm also going to look at France again.

There we go.

Yeah, I think my fins are going on the shelf for a little while, I think, just because I can't see what their anti-tank is at the moment.

Because I don't really want to play Faust with them.

And you can't do your mobile roadblocks anymore because they cost 23, 20 whatever points more.

Yeah, I can still use my engineers, but I can't get them anywhere near you without paying a huge surcharge.

I guess I could use common transports and use trucks now.

That might be a way to get around it.

Basically, what you're saying is that Warlord have introduced toll roads into whenever Finns play.

That's effectively what it is, isn't it?

Yeah, we've had the classic pendulum swinging back the other way where.

Yeah, wait until the next version of the amended minor nations.

And we might see it go back to something where the Finns are back in the game.

But for now, I think the Finns are going to be less common in the tournament scene.

But speaking of, though, we've got some news on the English Open, haven't we?

We do.

Drum roll, please.

So, yeah, the English Open is back at Warfare 2025.

Tickets are available through the Warfare website, and we will put a link in our description.

You can also jump over to our Facebook page, where there'll be an event page with the links.

So, as with the English Open, as always, it is historically plausible lists.

We're going for 1066 points this year, because we like to be a little different.

Nice and thematic as well there is a slight expectation slash requirement to change your nation from last year if you attended although if you really want to bring the same nation you can do but you're going to have a reduction in points but all of these details the pack and so on will be on the facebook page and the tickets are available through the warfare website with the link in the description indeed now this episode we were going to talk about tournaments because we we're going to talk about roll call that we went to a couple of weekends ago the next episode will be all about tournaments.

We'll probably dive more into the English Open, dive into the other upcoming tournaments like the Welsh Nationals that's happening next weekend.

WTC that's happening as we record.

I'm sure we'll have a little conversation about that as well at some point.

So tune in next week to hear all about tournaments, including all the ones previously mentioned.

Tata for now.

Tata for now from me and my Finns.

Rest in peace.

Music.