Unknown: [Music]

Sarah K: Welcome to the Spanish ArPoda.

I'm Sarah.

Peter Byrne: And I am Peter.

Sarah K: And we are ranking and reviewing all of the rulers of Spain, from Leovigild to Felipe VI.

And today we are going to be reviewing Count Odalric of Barcelona.

Peter Byrne: Well, it's a great name.

Sarah K: It is a great name!

Peter Byrne: If we have to come back on one.

I'm glad we came

Sarah K: This is our comeback.

After quite some time of not back on this one.

recording anything, I looked at where we are in the history, and I did consider like, maybe we should just do Alfonso III to bring stuff back on a bang.

But then I thought, You know what?

Let's ease into it.

Let's do a couple that are going to be a little less research intensive, because I'm going to tell you, we're going to record two today, and there's not going to be a lot going on.

Peter Byrne: Ah, I see.

So we've got a couple of William Henry Harrisons.

Sarah K: We have a couple of William Henry Harrisons.

We have a couple of Aed, King of Scotland who was remembered in the annals as nothing of note happened during his reign.

Peter Byrne: Lady Jane Gray, always got to put that in there, before we get to Mary I.

Okay.

Sarah K: Yeah, these are the kinds of people we're going to be talking about.

So let's kind of talk about where we are in Barcelona at this point, it's been a hot minute since we've been there.

So we last left with William of Septimania.

He was the son of Bernard of Septimania, who caused all the problems for Louis the Pious, and actually got deposed.

Peter Byrne: Yes, he did.

Sarah K: He pulled a Grover Cleveland.

Was Count of Barcelona, and then he wasn't Count of Barcelona, and then he was Count of Barcelona again, a second time.

Peter Byrne: Again, Louis the Pious really living up to his name.

Sarah K: He definitely lived up to his name, there.

Peter Byrne: Absolutely keep giving people second, third, fourth chances.

Sarah K: Yes, well, the second chance was all he got.

Actually, what really happened was Louis the Pious died, and his son Charles the Bald became king of the Franks.

And Charles the Bald eventually captured Bernard of Septimania and had him executed.

Peter Byrne: Right.

It's not funny anymore.

Sarah K: Right.

Well, what happened after Bernard was out is that his son, William, kind of assumed, and I'm not sure why, considering his father had been executed as a traitor, but he kind of assumed that he was going to get the same countyships that his father had.

Peter Byrne: Fool my dad once.

Shame on you.

Fool my dad 73 times.

Shame on me, if I let you continue now that my dad's dead.

Sarah K: Exactly.

Charles the Bald named a count of Toulouse, for example.

That was one of Bernard of Septimania's holdings.

We talked about him.

You might remember his name, Fredelo.

Peter Byrne: Ah, yes, yes.

These are, these are vivid names.

Sarah K: They are vivid names.

Peter Byrne: Somewhere out there.

JRR Tolkien is saying, Guys dial it back a bit.

Sarah K: William of Septimania, Bernard of Septimania's son, decided that he was going to be the count of Toulouse as well.

Peter Byrne: Because, why not?

Sarah K: Because why not?

Well, that didn't work out.

It was a very tumultuous reign, if we can call it that.

William of Septimania eventually ended up fleeing to Barcelona, which he also claimed as his.

And I think the actual quote in the Annals of St.

Bertin was that he took Barcelona by some trickery.

Peter Byrne: "Hi, can I just step in to use your bathroom for a second?"

Sarah K: It doesn't explain what kind of trick it was.

But there were two counts of Barcelona, two people working there that had been appointed by Charles the Bald, which were Aleran and Isembard.

Yeah, Isembard definitely did not survive.

It's unclear about Aleran, because basically what happened is that William of Septimania, as the Annals said, he, in turn, was tricked out of his position.

So this was in 850 and that's kind of where we left the story.

Peter Byrne: Right, right, right.

Revolving door continues to revolve.

Sarah K: Yes, we're actually going to pick up with Odalric, who began his tenure as Count of Barcelona in 852.

So before we talk about him, I want to talk about what happened in those two years in between 850 and 852.

Why aren't we picking up immediately?

I did consider picking up with Aleran because he did somehow survive being tricked out of Barcelona, and technically he was the Count of Barcelona, while William was technically also the Count of Barcelona, right?

However...

Peter Byrne: Lotta asterisks being attached to names here, yes.

Sarah K: However, Alaran died in 851 or 852 it's, it is unsure, and we don't know how.

Peter Byrne: And presumably, he was never in Barcelona himself.

Sarah K: He was never really, yeah, he was never really the Count of Barcelona in any tangible way.

Peter Byrne: Okay, never mind then, right.

Sarah K: So, so we're not sure when he died.

We're not sure what he did between William of Septimania's death and his death.

And there's, there's just it was, it was.

There was definitely an interregnum of sorts, basically from 850 to 852.

The other thing that happened is that a lot of things happened in 852 that kind of clarified matters, which makes it a good place to pick up again.

The first thing happened is that Abd al Rahman II, who was the Emir of Al Andalus, died.

Peter Byrne: Okay, right.

Sarah K: He had been sending a lot of expeditions up against Barcelona, up against Pamplona.

He had been allying with Musa ibn Musa, and then sometimes allying with Charles the Bald.

There's several references to him sending envoys to the Frankish court to kind of, you know, jump over and get some more leverage over these countyships.

So he died, and he was an extremely powerful emir, in 852.

The other important thing that happened in 852 is that Pippin II, who was the self named.

Well, not self named, but he was not named by Charles the Bald to be king of Aquitaine.

Peter Byrne: Right, right.

Sarah K: He was captured by the Duke of Gascony and turned over to Charles.

Peter Byrne: Who was so happy to see him.

Sarah K: Charles was probably thrilled, yeah, right, because he had first been fighting against Pippin, like his father, Pippin II's father, right?

And then when he died, Pippin II was kind of named King of Aquitaine, not a sub King, not named by Charles the Bald or the central authority.

So this has been a thorn in the Carolingian side for a long time.

Peter Byrne: Yeah.

Pippin's whole approach to conducting his life was essentially the motto.

What's the worst that could happen?

Sarah K: Well, the worst that could happen is that the Duke of Gascony gets tired of being plotted against by Charles the

Peter Byrne: Charles does not have time for this nonsense on Bald and Abd al Rahman II.

And also, by the way, there's tons of Viking raids going on in France right now.

Just Vikings all over the place.

It's kind of hard to follow.

his southern border.

Sarah K: He does not.

It's kind of funny.

If you read the Annals, you can tell that they really have no idea what's going on when it comes to Vikings, because it talks about the Danes, and then it talks about the other Danes.

So it's like, oh, okay, so you really don't know who these people are, do you.

Peter Byrne: Right?

Okay, are you the horns on the head Danes?

Are you the Beowulf Danes?

Because you're one or the other, and I can't tell you apart.

Sarah K: It's just, there's several groups, and they are referred to as the Danes or the other Danes, or those other Danes, right?

So this is a big problem in the area.

And the Duke of Gascony, who had been on Pippin II's side, who had been in conflict with Charles the Bald, kind of, I mean, we're not certain, but it would make a lot of sense if he was like, You know what?

I don't, I can't deal with this.

I've got too much, I got too much backstabbing and crossing and Vikings and everything.

So he captures-

Peter Byrne: My calendar is full.

Yes.

Okay,

Sarah K: So he captures Pippin II and turns him over to Charles.

Peter Byrne: Smart.

Sarah K: Who is his uncle.

Surprisingly, Charles does not kill him.

Peter Byrne: That is slightly surprising.

Sarah K: He was tonsured and sent off to a monastery.

Peter Byrne: Okay.

I mean, casting our eye back, at least he didn't chop his hand off.

Sarah K: Did not chop his hand off, did not have him executed.

There was no room of knives and poison.

And so Pippin II gets escorted off of the scene.

Peter Byrne: Here's a bad haircut.

Now go be godly.

Sarah K: He does, more or less, remain out of the story from here on out, although there was a funny part in the Annals of

Saint Bertin that I read: in 856, he escapes his captivity, makes his way the entire way across France to get back to Aquitaine and tries to take power again.

The Annals says

this: "The Aquitanians spurned the young Charles, who they had so recently set up as their king.

Pippin, who had been brought out of his imprisonment escaping from the monastery of Saint Bernard.

They turned him from a monk into someone that looked like a king."

Peter Byrne: Oh, God, this is a project makeover, isn't it?

Sarah K: Well, it kind of makes me think, like, if you're a monk, if you've been tonsured, you can't be king, right?

Peter Byrne: Right!

No, that's the rule.

Sarah K: If they made him someone who looked like a king, what, did they give him a toupee?

Peter Byrne: It was a wig.

Yeah.

Obviously there was a wig.

Sarah K: Right.

So this will happen.

But for the time being, 852 is a great year for Charles the Bald, and it's a great year for the Spanish March, because things kind of calmed down a little bit.

Peter Byrne: Okay.

Sarah K: So this is when Odalric was appointed Count of Barcelona in 852.

Peter Byrne: And just, just for my notes, this is O D, E, L, R, I C, or R, I C, K.

Sarah K: So there are a couple different spellings, O D, A, O D, A, L, R, I C, is the common but it can be spelled with an E: O, D, E, L, R, I, C, and sometimes that first O can be a U.

Peter Byrne: And why not?

Okay.

Sarah K: So the interesting thing about Odalric and about his successor, Humfrid, who we are also going to talk about today, well, you're laughing at the name.

But these names are not Gothic names.

They are not Spanish names.

They, they don't sound like...

Like they don't sound like Bernard, or William, or the Duke of Gascony.

His name was Sancho.

Right,

Peter Byrne: Right, exactly.

I mean, we're where.

Where are we?

Where are we?

We've moved from the Chindasuinth era into the, well, into the William, son of Bernard era.

I mean, pick a lane!

Sarah K: So this, this also shows a very interesting tendency, or a kind of push and pull, if you will, over what is happening on the ground in the Spanish March and what the Carolingians want to happen in the Spanish March.

So the county of Barcelona was set up in 800; we're at 852 now.

So it's been 50 years.

So at this point, there are entrenched families that have been in the area, that have been holding lands and holding honors in the area, and while-

Peter Byrne: a half generations in.

Sarah K: So yes, and so while we're not really at hereditary succession yet, there, there are a lot of power bases that are getting more and more powerful as the years go on.

Peter Byrne: Right?

I mean, we're at the point where generations have had enough time to get wealthy and then inherit that wealth and then build on it.

So yes.

Sarah K: That's exactly what's happening.

Okay, so we talked about Bernard of Septimania and his son William.

He also has another son named Bernard, which we will talk about a little bit later.

During Bernard's rule, we talked about Sunifred and Sunyer, the brothers who had counties in the Spanish March and both suspiciously died in the same year.

Peter Byrne: Yeah, really suspicious.

And by that I mean pretty much not suspicious at all.

Pretty self explanatory.

Yes.

Sarah K: Well, they have sons, right?

So which are still, you know, in the area, and so this makes it really hard for centralized authority to do much, right?

If you're Charles the Bald and you're faced with a family who has gotten used to being wealthy, sure, especially in an area where they have gotten used to allying with the king of Aquitaine whenever they didn't like what Charles the Bald was doing, correct?

It makes it really difficult to impose your authority.

So Odalric and Humfrid are not from this area whatsoever, okay?

Are not anywhere near they're actually from over like Provence, like Northern Italy, that whole part of the Empire.

As a matter of fact, Odalric, actually, it's thought that he originally was in the court of Louis the German, who was Charles the Bald's brother.

Okay, right.

So, so they tended, the Franks tended to split their territories from father to son.

And so at this point, you know, it's been a while since Charlemagne owned it all.

At this point, there are different brothers who are in charge of different parts of France and Germany.

And you could probably guess where Louis the German was set up.

Peter Byrne: Sure.

Uh, well, wait, uh, Italy.

Sarah K: Not quite, not quite, although it did, Italy, the parts of Italy that they had did kind of fall under that domain.

Anyway.

Odalric was in the court of Louis the German, fell out with him, and fled to the court of Charles the Bald.

But he is not native to western Francia.

Peter Byrne: Gotcha.

Sarah K: So it's thought that this, that this was an attempt to put a really clear loyalist that didn't have a lot of links to the area in place.

Peter Byrne: Can't trust the locals.

You transplant somebody into the garden, hoping that they will take seed as it were.

Peter Byrne: Right.

There's not a lot of room for treachery when

Sarah K: Yes, and you can see that...

I guess the problem with nobody trusts you in the first place.

doing this: Yes, it does mean that the centralized authority can exert more authority, but it also means that the count himself doesn't have a lot of local connections.

Sarah K: Exactly, and there's not a lot of reason for the people who live there to go along with what you're....

like, you're not from here.

You don't know how important I am.

Et cetera, et cetera.

So most of the references to Odalric that we have from the sources are from requests from Odalric to Charles the Bald on the behalf of people in the county of Barcelona, to give them land and favors.

Peter Byrne: I see, I imagine, every one of those letters was, had a PS of Get me the hell out of here.

Sarah K: Yeah.

So we see several requests by Odalric on behalf of patrons, will this villa be granted, or will you grant these honors to so and so or such and such needs, has been my faithful servant and should be rewarded, blah, blah, blah.

That is pretty much all of the textual evidence that we have for Odalric.

At all.

He is not mentioned in any way in the Annals of Saint Bertin.

He is not mentioned in, the Akhbar Majmua doesn't say anything about him.

Al Makkari doesn't say anything about him.

There's nothing in the Chronicle of Alfonso III about him.

He just, there's just not anything for us to say.

Peter Byrne: I see, okay.

I mean, basically we- The analogy

I just immediately think of is: Central corporate sends in a temporary manager to the local Applebee's, and all we have are the complaints from the staff that they're not getting the shifts that they need.

We know he was there because of the complaints, but that's it.

Sarah K: Yeah.

The other issue is that with Aquitaine settled-ish, because Charles the Bald has gotten rid of Pippin.

In a few years, he will name his son, Charles the Child as sub King.

Peter Byrne: Wait, that's his....

That's his honorific?

Sarah K: Yeah.

So he was anywhere between five and 15 years old when he became sub king of Aquitaine.

Peter Byrne: Okay, that goes down okay when you're five.

When you're 15, that does not go down.

Sarah K: We know he must have been younger than 15, when he was named, we don't know exactly.

There are sources that differ about when Charles the Bald decided to take this step, but we do know that at age 15, he was already there because he decided to get married that year.

Mostly he was kind of a non-, I mean, his name, Charles the Child, he didn't...

Peter Byrne: Yeah, I was gonna say, you've heard of a child bride.

Well, here's a child groom.

Enjoy

Sarah K: Yes, his Chamberlain, Steven, did most of the administrating.

Peter Byrne: I bet he did.

Charles spent most of his time playing Xbox, complaining about how nobody listens to me.

Sarah K: Right.

So with that settled, more or less, with the occasional popping up of Pippin II with a toupee on, the chroniclers and the people writing the annals really kind of turned to internal Frankish politics.

What's going to happen with the succession?

Because the Carolingian dynasty is kind of falling apart at this point.

Charles the Bald has several kids.

Louis the German, not really sure what's happening with him.

Lothar, who is the other brother, has two sons, and he divides his territories between them.

And so there's all of these, like, succession issues, and what's going to happen to Francia as a whole, sure, and then the Vikings as well.

So people want to write about that stuff.

Peter Byrne: It is admittedly considerably more interesting.

People being petty in Barcelona, sure.

Sarah K: Yes.

So there's really not a lot about Odalric.

We know that he was Count of Barcelona starting in 852 and he probably stopped being Count of Barcelona in 858 and this was most likely due to- he did not die then.

This is most likely due to a poor showing that he did against a Muslim army.

Peter Byrne: Ah, okay, that'd do it.

Sarah K: That would do it, yes, but that's all we have.

That is the life and countship of Odalric.

Peter Byrne: So, yeah, all right, so a transplant that did not, in point of fact, take root.

Sarah K: Take root, did not.

So you want to rate him?

Peter Byrne: I mean, yeah!

Sarah K: Let's go on.

Now you see why we're doing two.

Peter Byrne: Yeah, I do.

I do.

Sarah K: Our first category is Conquistadores.

How much land did he conquer and how good was he at war?

Well, he was the Count of Barcelona, Girona, Rosellón, Empuries, so he had a bit of land to his name, but he didn't expand it in any way.

Peter Byrne: No.

And based on what you've just said, it appears that the only thing that he might be known- Not only did he probably lose, but he didn't even lose well enough to be memorable enough to record.

Sarah K: Right.

So there's two encounters with Al Andalusian armies that are recorded, both by Al Makkari.

The Annals of St.

Bertin don't really say a thing about it.

So in 852 when Abd al Rahman died, Muhammad took the throne.

That was his son.

And Al Makkari says, "The first act-"

Peter Byrne: Is this Muhammed I?

Sarah K: This is Muhammad I.

Peter Byrne: Of Córdoba, okay, we've done one on him.

Sarah K: We have done his already.

Yeah, he was the guy who really liked spreadsheets.

Peter Byrne: He really did.

Sarah K: He really did.

But Al Makkari says, "The first act of his reign was to send forth an army under the command of Musa ibn Musa, governor of Tudela, which ravaged the territory of Alava and the Castles and took some fortresses.

He also dispatched another army to the districts of Barcelona and more remote regions beyond that city, which wasted the land, took some of the fortresses belonging to the former district and then returned." This is probably overblown.

There's no real record of land changing hands.

As a matter of fact, some scholars think that this was a punitive effort for removing William of Septimania, who had been allied with Abd al Rahman II.

But that's literally the first thing Muhammad did when he got into power.

He's like, Let's go send an army up to Barcelona, knock over some stuff, come back home.

Peter Byrne: Yeah.

I mean, yes, right, you gotta, you know, you, you graduate from college.

What's the first thing you do?

You go to Barcelona.

I mean, that's, that's, that's what it is.

It's either Prague or Barcelona.

Sarah K: You know what, actually, I did!

When I graduated college, I went to Europe for the first time, and I went to Barcelona.

Oh, it was so nice.

But we went in July.

That was a bad time.

It was extremely, extremely hot.

Second encounter between Muslim forces and the forces in Barcelona was in 856, so this was basically in the year, two years before he was removed.

And this is when the Carolingian fortress at Terrassa fell to Muslim hands.

This is outside of Barcelona.

Once again, this is not mentioned in any Frankish sources or in the Chronicle of Alfonso III so it's not a huge deal, but it did happen, and Odalric apparently did so poorly at repelling the attacks that he was eventually relieved of his command as Count of Barcelona.

Yes, he did do something.

Peter Byrne: I was gonna say.

I mean, at the very least he did something.

He didn't do it well, but that makes him more- I mean, put it this way, I always go back to Tulga.

If we give Tulga a zero, because Tulga did nothing.

Then, even if you do something badly, you did something, you get a one.

Sarah K: Yes, and at least it wasn't so disastrous that every chronicler was writing about the misery and waste, right?

You know?

Peter Byrne: It wasn't so disastrous that they had to execute him as as an example.

Sarah K: Yeah, they just said, You know what?

You're really not

Peter Byrne: When you lose, and the response is, it's not suited for this.

working out.

That's a loss, but it's not the- it's put it this way, Musa ibn Musa lost 10,000 men in going up against Ordoño.

Now that's a loss.

So, okay.

Sarah K: Yeah, I agree with that.

I'll give him a one.

So that is two for Odalric, for Conquistadores.

Our next category is No Me Digas.

What sort of gossipy scandaly things did he get up to?

I got nothing.

Peter Byrne: I got nothing.

I mean-

Sarah K: He was extremely loyal to Charles the Bald, and he interceded with Charles the Bald to get money and favors and grants of land to his subjects, which possibly was a survival strategy.

Peter Byrne: I'm sure it was, but I love the image of a guy basically just taking complaints from the locals, and distilling those complaints into requests to upper management, because that is a mis- that is the model of a miserable man in a miserable position.

Surrounded by people, all of whom know they're better than he is, and resent having to ask him.

And you know they were petty messes when they asked him, that everything was backhanded, as in, if you think you could possibly find the time to do this, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to give us some money.

And I'm going to give him a one again, because there had to have been- again, I'm giving him a, it's more of a speculative one, but I imagine there was some truly, as I say, some catty messiness behind some of those requests that amuse me.

There's a little bit of gossip there, as in, somebody in Charles's court must have read that letter, or those letters, and said that, poor son of a, ohhhhhhh, I don't believe what they're putting him through.

So I'm gonna give him a one.

Sarah K: Now, I'm imagining the requesters showing up asking for the title to, you know, the name of some villa, and just lookin at him like, you don't even know where that is, do you?.You have no idea what I'm talking about.

Peter Byrne: In fact, I'm going to start making stuff up.

Just pass it along, right?

The title to the Castle of Hugh Jass.

The title of the Castle of Seymour Butts.

Come on!

Pass it along.

Sarah K: It's not enough for me.

I like, I like your creativity, but I've got to give him a zero.

Peter Byrne: That's fair.

Sarah K: So that is a one for No Me Digas.

All right.

Our next category is Ortodoxia.

How much did they promote their own faith?

Well, we do have a document that Odalric's name is on.

It's one of these requests, one of the things that he saw over.

The issue was actually a dispute.

There was a monastery and a layman, and they both laid claim to a tract of land.

The monastery thought it was theirs, and the layman thought it was theirs, so they got Odalric to intercede on it.

It was a pretty quick case, because the monastery was able to produce an imperial grant awarding the property to them.

Peter Byrne: The monastery had meticulously kept records.

Get out.

That's so unlike a monastery.

Sarah K: Yeah, they had the title.

And so Odalric was like, yep, you can keep that land.

That's yours.

And the layman could not refute that.

So, you know, he did administer justice and church justice appropriately in his realms.

We do know that, but that's, that's really it.

I suppose...

I mean, he fought Muslims, and he also fought Vikings.

Whenever Charles the Bald called him up, he went.

Peter Byrne: Okay, all right, that's not bad.

Sarah K: I don't know how much actual fighting he did.

He might have just showed up, like, for moral support.

You know, I think a lot of this was just raise troops, rather than actually

Peter Byrne: Yeah, send men, it falls into the that's not fight yourself.

nothing category, and I have to give, I have to acknowledge: Based on the scenario of his life that we've sort of drawn up for himself.

He's got a little bit of the martyr in him.

There's, there's, there's this idea of a man who spent most of his life suffering on behalf of others.

I'll give him a two for the adjudication and for the Muslim fighting, that's the best I can do.

And really, that's, that's, that's a pity score.

But I'll give him, I'll give him a two.

Sarah K: I'm going to give him a one.

Peter Byrne: I think that's fair, too.

I'm being overly generous, because I feel very sorry for him.

Sarah K: I do feel sorry for him.

So that is a three for Ortodoxia.

The last category with points is El Rey-sto.

What else do we know about him that supports him as a ruler?

Did he wear a crown?

Did he sponsor a, you know, a library?

Did.

you know...

we don't really have anything of that.

Peter Byrne: No!

Sarah K: Of the sort, nothing at all.

Peter Byrne: This is, this is usually the category where we find points.

In point of fact, I think this is his worst category.

Sarah K: Well, he was Count of Barcelona for six years, which

Peter Byrne: Which is not nothing.

I mean, he was never, I is not nothing.

mean, put it this way, he was surrounded by people who clearly would have seen him dead if they had been able to make that happen.

So he wasn't dumb or thoroughly incompetent, but that's not particularly interesting, though.

It's kind of the opposite.

If he were dumb and incompetent, that would be more, he might get points.

Sarah K: Yeah, and he didn't die in an interesting way, or indeed, in a way that we know about at all.

Peter Byrne: Right.

His death was so unmemorable that nobody bothered to record it.

Sarah K: Yeah, I'm pretty sure he went back to Provence.

Peter Byrne: Sure.

Sarah K: Yeah.

Peter Byrne: Which, by the way, nice place to retire.

Sarah K: No, not bad, not bad at all.

Peter Byrne: But we don't know that he did.

And no, no, I'm actually gonna just straight up say: No, zero on this one.

Sarah K: Yeah, I don't really have anything that indicates the trappings of leadership for this guy, except for the title.

Peter Byrne: Right.

That's the point.

Is, if he was just Odalric, would the story be substantially different?

No, not really.

A big, big old shrug of a man.

Sarah K: I agree with you.

I'm gonna give him a zero for El Rey-sto and so that is a zero for that category, and that means his total score is six.

He didn't even score enough to be one of our scores in a category.

Peter Byrne: Wow.

No.

Sarah K: So now we have to ask ourselves the final question is-

Peter Byrne: Do we though?

Do we-

Sarah K: Aaaahhhhh let me get through it, at least.

Is he an amazing and interesting enough ruler that we're going to let him sign the Charter of Rights with his subjects, the Fuero.

Or do we tell him, fuera, get out.

Peter Byrne: Ah, gosh, this is, this is tough.

Sarah K: I mean, I think Charles the Bald already told him Fuera.

Peter Byrne: Yeah, exactly.

And again, we must always go back to asking the question, What would Leovigild say if we-

Sarah K: He would be so disappointed!

Peter Byrne: Yes, exactly.

So, no, this isn't, this is an easy one.

Sarah K: What would Chindaswinth say?

What would Abd al Rahman I say?

Peter Byrne: Chindaswinth wouldn't say anything.

He'd mix him a very special drink and escort him into a special room.

Yeah, absolutely not.

Sarah K: Yeah.

I agree.

Fuera, sorry about that, Odalric, you probably should have done more interesting things to get into the annals.

Peter Byrne: Absolutely.

Sarah K: All right.

Well, we're not going to do a recommendation, because we're going to go immediately on to Odalric's successor, who is Humfrid.

And so, we will save our recommendations for that.

See you in a few minutes.

Peter Byrne: All right!