Yo, Casey, Hi Millie.

How's it going.

Fine?

It's going Actually, it's going great because we're about to do an amazing podcast together again.

Yeah, it's a thrilling day.

It is.

So we're gonna do another round of our film diary because I know you all want to know.

And yes, we're gonna get really sensitive today because we're talking about a film that is very meaningful to me.

It's called Garden State.

And we're also gonna touch upon a little thing called the uh Manic Pixie dream Girl, which I have a lot to say.

I'm sure you do.

I have quite a bit to say as well.

And then, because we're gonna be talking about some sense TiVos, I've prepared a wonderful game that I'm gonna make you play about some sensitive boys in film.

So well, I am a sensitive boy, So I'm very excited.

All of this and more on this episode of Dear Movies, I Love You.

I love you, and I've got to know you love me.

To check the books.

Welcome to Dear Movies, I Love You.

This is the podcast for those who are in a doomed relationship with movies.

I'm your host, Millie to Jericho and I'm.

Your other host, Casey O'Brien.

Oh, Millie, Yes, we got a lot to talk about today.

We definitely do.

This episode is going to feel like I'm gonna learn a lot about you.

I just have this weird feeling about it.

Would that be fair to say?

Are you fearful?

No?

I feel I'm worried.

I'm going to reveal things on this podcast that are going to make you reconsider hosting a podcast with me, knowing me as a human being.

Oh so there's that.

I mean, we're going to get into it now.

I kind of see it as you're like this overgrown garden to discover when it.

Comes to to be needed.

Because we have a lot of similar tastes in movies, I would say yeah, more than I actually thought.

I gotta admit, because you never know, you know, when you meet people in the film streets, you're like, what are they into?

And then you're like, oh, they only like I don't know, they only like Michael Bay movies or something, and you're like, oh, okay, gotcha, and they're like, I'm a film freak just like you, and I'm like.

We're not the same.

But there was a lot of guys I went to film school with that.

There's a specific type of film school guy who I steered clear from.

But they were everywhere.

And it's guys whose favorite movie is Indiana Jones and they would also wear a fedora at film school.

And this is like a very specific type of guy and it says a lot about them.

I like Indiana Jones.

But yeah, sure, sure, But you know, I don't want to say that.

There are cinematic red flags when it comes to meeting people, right, Oh, but there are.

But yeah, I was gonna say, is there some movie or some director or something that is immediately like when an eyebrow gets raised with you when you talk to someone.

Oh, yes, certainly.

I feel like I'm gonna be struck dead in the art house world for saying something like this.

But when people are like I love Gadard, sure, I find that I'm like, shut the fuck up.

His movies are boring and they suck.

That's certainly one I would say.

I don't hear this.

But if someone like loved Lars von Dreer, I think that would be another one for me.

Yeah, what about you?

I should I'd probably be struck dead if I said this.

But I'm gonna go for it.

Why not.

There's also like people who I have met who only watch A twenty four movies and pretty much nothing else.

Oh, A twenty four is becoming that there's a film fandom there that is becoming nasty.

It's growing, and I mean in some ways it's like I like that art house cinema is being held up and people are excited for it.

But I know exactly the type of man you're talking about.

Okay, Incredible movies come out on A twenty four, no doubt about it.

Some of the best modern movies have come out on that.

I want to say label, but it's a label production production.

But that's what I mean.

It has become such a branded thing where people are like really only kind of focusing on that and all of the output and not watching other.

People's movies, do you know what I mean?

Like they just know, oh, well, this is my this is my brand, Like I don't go outside the brand.

And it feels very kind of modern capitalism in a way to be like I only watch movies from this one production company.

Yeah.

Also there's like a vibe associated with it too, which I think people have really bought into.

So I don't know.

Again, that's it's probably gonna make me persona on grata.

I suppose for saying that.

But I'm also like, come on, like, there are other movies that come out and have come out beyond this, So I hear you just have some variety, you know.

Absolutely, And maybe we can help with that with our film diary section to the podcast where we go through the movies we watched in the last week, we discussed them, and let me just ask you this before we jump in, and this might be its own segment at some point, But what's your like film watching process?

Do you have to like have a certain snack with you?

Do you have to like turn all the lights off?

Are you like, is that like a hallowed space?

Or are you like watching you know, Lawrence of Arabi on your phone in bed?

Or so where where do you draw the line?

Watching Lawrence of Arabia on my phone would be a fucking nightmare?

Yes?

So are you talking about in the theater or at home?

At home?

At home the home movie watching experience.

So here is the play and truth is that I've become that middle aged person that can easily fall asleep in a movie, even if it's riveting, even if it's Indiana Jones, Do you know what I mean.

Yeah, So I've kind of switched things up and started watching movies in the morning.

That's good fresh or in the early afternoon.

Right, I gotta say I love a morning movie, and even in the theater.

I love going to the theater in the morning, like you know before two pm, the Senior Citizens hour where you get the good discounts on things.

So I watch things in the morning.

And to be honest, the best thing for me is to like get up, make coffee, maybe make some toast, sure, and just watch a movie like within an hour or an hour and a half after I get.

Up, when your brain is fresh ready to absorb.

Yeah, fresh brain, and it's not as distracting.

Yeah, and I don't feel as tired.

I just I don't know.

I just love that.

So that's been me for the past year or so or more.

Okay, what about you?

You know I used to be like really finicky about like the room has to be completely black, I need to like watch it all in one sitting without stopping the movie.

But since I've had a child, things have become real lax.

I'm watching on a laptop sometimes I'm watching in fragments, and honestly, it hasn't ruined the overall experience.

You know, it's better to watch a movie though any way you can, than not at all.

And I was watching them not at all because I didn't have like a you know, a four hour block of time to watch like John Deelman or whatever.

Yeah, which is like what I used to do before.

It was like, all right, turn my phone off.

I'm zoned in on this movie.

But I've become more easygoing as I've gotten older.

Yes, that's good.

That's good.

You don't want to get more rigid?

Yeah, exactly, life is gonna be harder.

They're more rigid.

You are.

I'm just telling you right now, it's true.

Maley.

I gotta hear.

I want to hear what movies you watched this past week?

Please tell me?

Yeah?

So okay, film diary this week?

First up, I watched Anora Seawan Baker's Anora.

Fuck.

I need to see it.

Would you think it's fantastic?

Damn?

I gotta see it.

A huge fan of Sean Baker, me too.

I fucking love Red Rocket.

See I haven't seen Red Rocks like.

I'm a fan more than all of y'all are of Red Rocket.

I'm just gonna throw that out there.

Wow, like the whole Cybin Rex phenomenon.

Yes, I love this.

I love this.

I love him.

I have loved him since the nineties when I used to see him on MTV TV and I just loved the trajectory of his career and like he's sort of like he's really kind of like self effacing and very like no bullshit about things in his life.

Yeah, which I really appreciate.

He's a dynamic person.

Yeah.

And I want to see Red Rocket because I want to see him up on the screen.

I think he got the call to like be in that movie like a few days before they started shooting.

Really.

Yes.

And also Sean Baker, just because we're friends on Instagram.

I mean not that we interact, but.

You know, he's a good letterboxed follow he is.

Yeah.

Yeah, Yeah, he's a huge exploitation fan, which is great.

I mean I love that about him.

So so I saw Nura, loved it.

I thought it was very, very charming.

So I then saw Pumping Iron two.

The women.

Fuck, I didn't know there was a Pumping Iron two.

Little of us did.

And I will say few of us knew.

Shame because it This is my letterbox review, verbatim and all vibes.

Masterpiece five stars, five stars, five stars.

Pumping Iron to the women is better than pumping iron, and I hold pumping Iron in the highest esteem, like everybody knows why.

I mean, you've got young Arnold talking about how working out is like ejaculating exactly, and then you've got like loof Forregno and his dad.

I mean, there's so many charring parts to Pumping Iron, but like Pumping Iron two is its own fucking beautiful universe.

Like there's glamour, there's lots of backstories, there's this like we speaking of sensitive boys.

There's a man in the movie who is a bodybuilder and he's married to one of the bodybuilder women who are competing in the Big competition, and he is a wife guy of the highest order.

I'm obsessed with him, but not even like an annoying wife, like a true, beautiful soul wife guy, like an eighty his wife guy, which was hard to do back in the eighties to be that.

But he is great, and the whole movie is so good and the music is great, so I had to watch it on YouTube.

I think it's on YouTube.

Wow.

But it is so good, Okay, I encourage everybody to see it.

Amazing.

I also watched this documentary.

This is like a total swing in the other direction.

I watched the documentary about merchant Ivory.

Oh, okay, the filmmaker's merchant Ivory.

Yeah, I think it's just called merchant Ivory.

It was directed by Steven Sussie.

I think it's his name s ou see why And I don't know if you've had a long history with watching those movies like Room with a.

View, I've only seen The Butler.

Why am I blanking on the name?

I read the book too, Remains of the Day, The Remains of the Day.

I love that movie and I love that book.

But that's the only merchant Ivory movie I've seen.

I guess Call Me by Your Name was written by Yes, James Ivory.

Correct, basically if you don't know and Ivory.

They were the creators of these very speaking of vibes, viby, sort of Edwardian era England.

Gentle kind of movies, would you.

Say, gentil lush scenery.

It's like a lot of farmhouses in England in the countryside, with like parasols, and big dresses.

Helena bottom carter and a messy bun that's just like cascading, you know, down.

Her shoulders, caskating messy bun.

Yeah, cas skating messy buns, but like that.

You know.

They've done several movies over the years, and Ismael Merchant and James Ivory were essentially a couple they met.

I mean I think Ismail Merchant was maybe twenty four when he met James Ivory, and they met in like, you know, the sixties or the fifties or sixties, and they basically were like a gay couple at a time where gay couples were not chill, especially in England.

I mean, you could get arrested for being gay in England back in the sixties.

And they were like creative collaborators.

They bring in all the usual suspects, so you've got like Emma Thompson and like Hugh Grant and all the people that were in their films.

Helen on a bottom carter of course, and then they bring in all of these other people that worked on the films, and then it was just kind of this like oh, they had this farmhouse, like I said, in the English countryside, and they had the ware they edited was in a barn with like Ivy growing up the walls and.

God, what a dream.

And then people would come and like live there for months at a time to work on their films, you know, like their composers and their you know, story editors and everything.

And I was just like every minute that went by, I started getting so in my feelings and I was like, I am depressed that I had never met my life partner at twenty four and made movies with.

Them until I died.

Like I was literally sitting there going like, why did that not happen for me?

You fucked up?

I know.

And I just was like, I mean, you know, and of course, you know, being in a relationship for that long is very complicated, especially if you work together.

But you know, and they talk about that a bit, but I was like, I hate my life.

I wish I'd had their life, Relly.

I was really in my feelings about it.

I was I want it.

I want this life sucks?

Why am I me?

And that's it's a fan If you're a fan, even if you're like a kind of like just curious about them, it's a good watch.

And the last movie I watch in my film.

Diary this week is.

Again another big swing in another direction was the two thousand and nine movie called Obsessed, starring Beyonce.

Yep and Interest Elba and Ali Lauter.

Beyonce really gave up on acting, didn't she.

She was trying to make that happen for a while, and I don't know if she was very good as an actor.

We were talking about that as we were watching it, because I had actually seen it before, and I was trying to get my friends and Eddie to watch it because my friend Eddie has this fascination and love for Ali Lauter, And I was like, have you ever seen Obsessed?

And he was like no, And I'm like, what, It's only the best milk toast erotic thriller I've ever seen.

But that's the thing is that, like Beyonce.

We were talking about this because I was like, Okay, should we do a Beyonce film festival?

What would be included?

And it would be like gold Member?

Wasn't she in Goldmember?

She was in gold Member?

Yeah, sort of.

Playing that like fake Pam mcgreer character.

I didn't think she was that good.

Gotta be honest and listen, I'm in the Beehive.

I didn't think she was good.

I'm in the Beehive and I can say this, sure we both are, yes.

And then I think she was in like Cadillac Records and a couple of other.

Like she played Eda James in Cadillac or right, she's in another kind of like fifties motown adjacent Dreamgirls.

Oh yeah, dream Girls.

But also what is it called Fighting Temptations or something like.

That, I don't know, in The Lion King.

She was in The Lion King.

Yeah.

Well, and so needless to say, I think we were all pressed to find something.

I don't know.

If i'd be attending that film festival movie.

Yeah, I know, And if only she'd been in a merchant Ivory movie, we'd be having a much different discussion.

Only But that movie Obsessed is so funny, and I think you know why I'm saying it's funny.

It's ridiculous.

Like it is a ridiculous movie.

It sort of feels like a Tyler Perry movie without Tyler Perry.

Kim Kardashian's not in that movie, is she?

No no, no, no, no no.

But it's supposed to be an erotic thriller, but there's no stakes, there's no eroticness to it at all.

So if you want to see a movie rereat Beyonce goes Hay, I'm on Allie latter, you should check it out.

And that's it for me.

Kim Kardashian was in the movie Temptation Confessions of a Marriage Counselor, which is a movie by Tyler Perry.

Okay, that's where we're getting confused.

That's where we're crossing wires there.

Wow, what a week for you, Elly?

Yeah?

Real crazy?

So what about you?

I have a pathetic week compared to you.

I saw the movie wish Master from nineteen ninety seven, which is very funny.

It's like an evil Genie comes back and basically he can only use his powers if used within a wish, so he's tricking people into making wishes and they'll be like like this woman in a working in a clothing store was like, oh my gosh, that other woman over there is beautiful, and he's like, don't you wish you were the most beautiful woman on earth?

And she's like, I guess so, and he's like, then say it, and then he like kills her.

It's very bad and stupid.

Is stars the late Tony Todd.

Am I wrong about that?

Tony Todd, I believe does make an appearance, all right, pe King Well doesn't.

Maybe he doesn't start.

No, he's just in there.

So Tony Todd, Robert England is in it a lot, and the guy who played Jason is in it.

There's like a lot of other horror movie people in it.

Okay.

Then I watched The Substance.

That was great.

I haven't seen it yet.

Everybody's like asking me if I had seen it, and I have to say no.

I love a horror movie that has a lot of goo in it, and this is a very goo forward movie.

I love body horror.

It reminded me of Brian Usna's Society.

If you've ever seen that movie, it's great cool.

I would even consider doing an episode on it.

I think there's a lot to say about that movie.

Okay.

And then I watched the two thousand and two comedy written by Mike White called Orange County.

I was just in the mood to see this movie.

I remember really liking it when it came out, and it's a fun You know, my wife Tricia is from Orange County and so it was kind of fun to watch that.

Yeah, talk about life in Orange County, and it's got a Jack Black before School of Rock, you know, before he blew up, Colin Hanks, Colin Hanks, Catherine O'Hara, John Lithgow, Harold ramis inclined.

There's a lot of people in it.

Yeah, so Lily Tomlin.

I love Mike White, will watch anything he does.

So Yeah, I have actually never seen Chuck and Buck.

Oh we did it for I saw what you did.

I know you did.

Yeah, I didn't watch it.

Yeah.

My favorite of his is Enlightened.

I was obsessed with Enlightened when it came out on HBO, to the point where when it ended, I think I actually wrote an email to someonet internally, because at the time that this happened, I was working for Warner Brothers Discovery, which of course owns HBO, and I was like, let me find somebody at HBO write a letter, like just some maniac woman who sends a blind email complaining about a show getting canceled.

I was so pissed.

Did you get a response?

No, of course not.

I feel like I make emails like that, like cold emails to random people, and like out of a thousand of them, one of them gets answered or like gets a response, and that so is thrilling.

Actually, I have kind of a story related to the movie we're talking about today, kind of I guess to a cold email that got responded to that I was going to bring up.

But that's great, that's our film Diary.

That's it, dear diary.

Millie was mean today.

Let's move on to the big show of what we're talking about today.

So let's I don't know, I'm cracking my knuckles.

I don't know if you can hear it.

Yeah, because I'm.

Settling in on this movie that we're going to talk about this time period.

Like when we talked about potentially bringing this movie to the podcast just to chat it up, I immediately was sent back to a time and place.

Yes, well, I floated the idea to you, and I was worried you were gonna pick it up and then throw it back at me and say, we're not talking about this movie.

So I was thrilled that you were to talk about it.

Oh yeah, listen, I love matching someone's freak.

So let's go.

Okay, yeah, fabulous.

So we're talking about Garden State today.

Two thousand and fours Garden State, written and directed by Zach Braff.

Let me take you back in the time machine.

It's two thousand and four.

I'm sixteen years old.

Ooh am I sensitive.

I am a sensitive, sad little boy, and this trailer almost more than the movie.

The trailer for this movie hit me.

I was just getting into art house film, you know.

I was going to the lagoon in Minneapolis and this played.

I don't remember before what movie, but I was just like, this is made for the music, the imagery, the sensitivity.

I was thinking about this.

I was like, if the FBI, like.

For some reason needed to try to like trick me and kidnap me somehow, they would put this trailer together and it would be such an easy mark to like show up at a movie theater to watch this movie.

I mean, it was like made for me.

Yes, and I remember my friends and I were all my sensitive boyfriends were so thrilled.

We went on the first day that it came out.

We already owned the soundtrack.

The soundtrack was already a huge thing.

We listened to the soundtrack.

I remember this day very specifically.

We listened to the soundtrack on the way to the theater and when I was watching it, I was like, this is the most important movie I've ever seen.

It just felt like the stakes were so high, and I feel like this movie opened it hit me right at the right time.

You know.

I had probably just seen The Four Hundred Blows and like The Seventh Seal, and I was seeing more like artsy movies, and so I was kind of ready for something like this, and it just it became such an important part of my life.

I look back to things that I made and wrote even in college, that are heavily influenced by this movie being core and sensitive.

And when I was in high school, my senior year, I was in the theater program.

I was very heavily involved in the theater program in high school, and my senior year my theater director came to me and another guy and were like, you guys should write a play that will do for the fall play WHOA And we wrote a play that, looking back, copied a lot of elements of Garden State.

It's like about a guy, like a grown man coming I went like seventeen oh, and it's like we're got like a grown man coming back to his hometown after trying to make it in La and the dad was in a wheelchair, not the mom, which is like in Garden State.

I mean it's like such, and there's like a medic pixie dream girl esque character in it.

And I don't even know if I can hunt down a copy of that play.

It was called Prodigal Oh, it's like about the prodigal son coming back.

So anyways, it was this is a very important movie for me in high schoo well, and it's interesting because I feel like this movie became a punchline not long after it was released.

Yes, so after that initial bubble of love, like after high school and maybe after college, I feel like it was like an embarrassing movie to like, especially when I got into film school and we're watching movies like Gumo or like you know, like Sallo and stuff like that.

It's like there's no place for a movie like Garden State.

But to me, I feel like I'm still affected by it in terms of the type of movie it is.

I've kind of come full circle on it, like this type of movie is my kind of movie.

Whether this is like a totally effective movie or not, this kind of movie is my still my kind of movie.

Yes, So that's my long winded story and experience with Garden State, and we're kind of talking about it because it came out twenty years ago.

It's kind of like the twenty a little longer than twenty years ago, but I believe it came out in August of two thousand and four.

Okay, so I thought it appropriate to revisit it.

And I'm glad that you picked it because I'll just go, I'm gonna say this right now.

You've said all these beautiful things about how this was a part of your childhood, about your formative years.

It inspired you to be a filmmaker and to be in movies.

And yes, I mean this is one of the movies.

I would say I went to film school because of this movie.

So oh, of course, I totally totally understand.

I had the complete opposite reaction when this movie came out.

Of course, I know I'm a little bit older than you.

I was twenty four, twenty five when this movie came out, So.

You're out of the you were out of the window.

I not only was out of the window, but I am I immediately saw as sus as the kids say, sus, I was like, what is this thing?

What is happening?

Because you know, being in my twenties, I think was obviously marketed for people in their twenties two And I was just like, but I have no connection to Zach Braff.

I have actually no connection to Natalie Portman because I'm not a Star Wars person and I wasn't really I didn't really have a connection to her.

I was a Scrubs for reef or do you my favorite show in high school.

I was obsessed because it was that was like a sitcom, but it had so many like emotional emo moments in it too, and I was just I was just such a sucker for it.

So like I was the pump was primed for this movie to come out for me.

Oh, I was already obsessed with Zach Braf.

See that is so interesting to me because Zach Braff, to me is the worst part of this movie after having seen it again, because I watched it.

I think I watched it on campus at the campus movie theater of my old college, because basically you could see movies for a dollar there if you had your student ID, and I had my still and my student ideas was like why not?

And I was like, yo, I hate this big time.

I hate it.

Even though like some of the soundtrack, which I know we're going to get into, there are bands on that soundtrack that I liked.

I also feel like too, it took advantage of like this rediscovery of Nick Drake.

Yeah, that I'm very resentful.

I'm actually resentful of it.

Yeah, because I think Nick Drake was in a car commercial, a Volkswagen commercial roughly around this time.

Yeah, think Moon.

I believe the song was used in that.

Yes, And speaking of sensitive boys, I was a big fan of Nick Drake.

And then all of a sudden here comes like, you know, the cavalry being like, oh Nick Drake, Pink Moon, Oh, Garden State Soundtruck.

I was like, you motherfuckers, Like where have you been?

Honestly, where have you been?

But all of this is to say, my thing about it is that like I had those movies when I was sixteen, seventeen years old.

I mean when I was that age, you know, it was a lot of like reality bites singles, you know.

I was kind of like in high school in the nineties.

Sure, so there.

Were movies like that were similar for me where I was like, I want to adopt the world that it's in and yeah, and I want to act like the characters and I just want to I'm like all invested into this whatever.

This movie is a promotion of a life that.

I want or something.

Yeah, so I'm not begrudging that that is actually like a time hon or tradition for most teenagers that they find a movie that is kind of their everything and then it becomes this like formative moment for them.

And I also think that movie is not necessarily the cool it's kind of the more mainstream that actual cool people would be resentful of late.

Like I think five Hundred Days of Summer is actually a very similar comp to this, because when I saw that, I was like twenty three, twenty four, and I was like, fuck this.

I resent them using Pixies music in this.

Yes, I resent them doing this.

But I know younger people who are like very affected by that movie.

You know.

It's like there's kind of this window and it's like that doesn't mean those things are bad inherently, but it's it's almost like the not I don't know how to describe it.

It's like the n not cool version of something, or like the more mainstreamified do you know what I'm saying?

Yes?

Well, and like, okay, so maybe this is an easy segue into maybe the larger theme of both what this movie represents and maybe the theme of this episode in a way, So I am not sure of the actual timeline for any of this, and I feel like you might no more than me, So just feel free.

To correct me at any at any point.

Sure, this movie feels like it ushered in this era of the mannic Pixie dream girl, which was a term that was coined by Nathan Rabin, who is a film writer and a critic very famously created this word that has become kind of like the catch all for a certain type of female movie character, right.

Yes, And it's he coined that term in the review for the movie Elizabethtown, which is a Cameron Crowe movie.

Who Cameron Crowe is very filmmaker who has kind of utilized that type of character a few times.

Yes, well, I mean he did singles.

So it's like, I mean, even if you go back to that movie, which was made in like what ninety.

Two ninety four?

Yeah, yeah, even though we were not in a Magic Pixie dream grow era, theoretically there are elements of the male character.

I mean, like I would say that Campbell.

Scott character and singles is very close to the Zach Raft character or you know whatever character that would be in Elizabethtown, that sort of like good guy, some damage sensitive, sensitive inspired to you know, live again via a girl who he finds charming and fascinating.

Yes, that concept to be actually honest.

Is old school, very old school.

It's like that is you know, very screwball comedy, early days of Hollywood.

That's set up.

But I feel like this movie, Garden State, was the thing that really crystallized that new era of it.

It felt like then after Garden State there was this like proliferation of those types of movies like Elizabethtown and is five hundred Days in Summer that's after guard State too.

Yeah, that's like twenty ten, five hundred days of Summer.

Nick and Nora's Infinite Playlist is one that I comes to mind.

Scott Pilgrim Versus the World is another one, and a lot of these movies.

It's a character type, but it's also a movie type.

This character exists within a certain type of movie.

It's like sensitive boy caught in a rut and this.

Unhinged woman who's free, a free spirit, gets them out of their rut, and it's mildly problematic because it kind of is all self serving for the man's journey, and a lot of times this female character doesn't really have any substance to them other than being kind of quirky and weird.

Right, potentially mentally ill, yes, always hanging in there, which is very interesting to me as well.

But here's the thing, though, I mean, listen, I think, if you know who I am, if you've listened to other podcasts I've done, if you just know my work or anything, just don't me personally.

I mean, you know that the manic picture dream Girl is you know a little I brace myself anytime we talk about it because it is such an archetype that doesn't feel necessarily real.

It feels like a product of a man's brain.

Right, yes, But at the same time, I want boys to be sensitive.

I want them to feel deep things, and I want them to fall in love in a very like, earnest, beautiful way, Like I mean, I want the evolution of men so badly that I don't want to say it's totally bullshit that this error exists, that this type of filmmaking exists.

At one point, because I feel like if it makes boys more sensitive and in two other feelings, great, But the problem is is that like that conversation is never as nuanced as I want it to be.

Yeah, and it certainly.

Doesn't talk about the women as part of that at all in any kind of real nuanced way.

Like it's just basically like a sensitive boys like projection of who he thinks is going to come save him, you know what I mean.

And also I would add an eternal sunshine, right, that's another one of these movies.

Eternal Sunshine, absolutely.

Yeah, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, as you know, Michelle Gondry, you know, Kate Winslet and Jim Carrey.

That to me was the movie that I was like, oh, I understand what's going on now, Like I watched that movie several times and I actually think it's a great film.

Yeah, but it did for me go, okay, yeah, this movie alongside all this other stuff, now we're in a vibe and I don't know what to think of it.

It feels very suspect.

And also not all women are like that, like they're not you know, whimsical and and all these things.

I mean, it's just like it is a fantasy, and I wish that there would be more substance to that, or more conversation around what that is to men, you know what I mean.

Yeah, I think that like inherently it's not a bad thing.

Like The Magic Pixie Dream Girl, I think it's good to be able to represent women on screen in a way that isn't like demure and quiet.

It's like because a lot of the times these women are like loud and abrasive and like whoa, they're making a scene.

And I think that isn't necessarily a bad thing on the face of it.

It's a good thing, you know.

But it's when there's like all in the service of the man and there isn't really a journey that that character goes on because a lot of times they're just like there being like there to free the main character guy from his you know, spot in life, but there isn't like they don't have a journey themselves.

I was just thinking of the movie Something Wild.

Yes, that's sort of a mannic Pixie dream Girl, but Melanie Griffith's character, you get to know her and her troubles and she does go on a journey, and so it's yes, there's a way to do it correctly, you know, but yeah, I don't.

Know well, and like it feels like a one sided thing where it's basically like, here's a fucked up guy who it's a fucked up girl.

But there's not in these movies.

To me as potentially, you know, seeing this through the eyes of the woman, I'm just like, where's you know, her story in relation to is he helping her?

Is there?

Like the thing that drove me batshit crazy about Garden State for several reasons.

Okay, Like, like I said, I watched it again for the podcast.

I was like, yep, now I'm watching this with middle aged eyes, and I'm like, this movie I had the right instinct.

I did not like it.

Before, maybe not as strongly, but I definitely thought, Okay, this is not great to me, and I think part of it is that well, I'll just tell you right now.

I'm not saying this is hard and fast rule for me, but I'm just gonna say, immediately suspect.

When a filmmaker who is the writer, director, and star of his own movie is easily able to get in his underwear in multiple scenes, I'm like, you are in your underwear and shirtless throughout a lot of this movie.

Interesting, and I'm like, that is bold.

Yeah, It's almost like he'd been wanting to get in his underwear for a long time on camera.

Interesting, and he was able to do it.

And I was like, hmm, interesting, Okay.

That's fascinating.

That didn't cross my mind when I was watching this.

I mean on.

Scrubs he was shirtless a lot too, So I feel like I've seen Zach Braff shirtless.

I know it was good.

It looks good shirtless, and maybe that's why he wanted to do it.

It's like he knows he does, Casey, That's what I'm I think I'm hunting at.

He knows he looks good shirtless, and he's like, Yo, let me get in my underwear a lot and let me take my shirt off a lot.

Can I tell you me watching it?

Because I haven't seen it in like eighteen years, I don't think suure.

So the last time I watched this was in my freshman year of college, just to kind of like check back in with it after a couple of years, and I don't think it hit me quite as hard that time, and watching it this time, I was like, this is kind of a silly little movie.

Like there's so many visual gags and like cute moments and like well framed shots, and visually it's fun to watch it.

But I was like the underlying emotion because I feel like when I first saw it, I was like, this is so emotional, and I was like the end was so powerful for me.

But this time, I was like, this is just.

Kind of cute and there's not as much.

I think at the end of the movie, I was a little bit like what was this all for?

What are we doing here?

And there were points in the movie where I'm like, where are we going?

Yes, why are we still watching this movie?

There wasn't a overarching narrative that kept it all together.

And at the time, you know, I was suffering from depression and anxiety, but in kind of a smaller way, sure, And so I was really attached to Zach Graft's character and he's like struggling with depression and ant and he's on all these pills that are numbing him.

That was such a big thing.

It was like I don't want to take these pills because they know I feel nothing and I just want to feel something.

Anyways, flash forward a few years where I am medicated for my depression and I'm going to therapy and I'm like, I don't find this as cute of a problem.

Yeah, and I don't think it's as accurate and it's depiction of depression.

And when I was on medication, I was like, Oh, thank god, it's numbing some of those feelings.

I never felt, like, God, I just want to feel.

I don't feel anything.

You know.

And so that type of storyline I was less affected by, or I didn't find as much, you know, I didn't connect with the character as much this time, and so I was kind of like, this is like a funny, cute movie, but I just it didn't have the punch it once had, and it kind of made me sad.

To be honest, I wasn't able to tap into that younger version of myself.

Yes, and I feel like I kind of like, in a way, was letting this movie down.

I know that's sort of a slight thing to say, but I was like, no, no, I feel like you meant so much to me and I'm just not able to get there with you.

I mean, I'm thirty six now and I'm still a very emotionally sensitive person.

But I just didn't connect to this.

And I just read this graphic novel called Blankets.

Have you ever heard of this book?

No, it's from two thousand and four also, and it's about a high school romance.

It's similar Garden State.

It's like so intense and just like every little thing is the biggest thing in the world.

And reading it as a thirty six year old, I was like, can't get into this.

Yeah, I'm not there.

I'm not there anymore in it.

And I feel like I let Blankets down because I was like, if I had read this in high school, it would have been my world.

But I'm just not there anymore.

And that kind of makes me sad.

I guess no, Actually, I kind of enjoyed it, and I see all the issues with it that you pointed out, but still I have such a soft spot for it that I was able to overlook that a little bit.

Like and as much like it may seem funny to say you let a movie down, I feel like that's okay, Like it's okay to age out of a movie that you loved.

We have kind of the like opposite problem happening within popular culture was that people feel so protective over things from their childhood that even if they're like I can't even really functionally fuck with this as hard as I used to, they'll still protect it to the hill because they're just sort of like in it.

They've invested so much.

Yeah, I feel like we should be moving away from that instinct, like art is flexible and it's you know, sometimes you really cat with things, sometimes you don't.

I mean, I totally understand how this could be somebody's everything at one period of life, and also, yeh, I understand how it could still be everyone's someone's everything.

I mean, this is a question I probably want to ask you then, because I feel like maybe this is what's happening for me, even though I'm not as strongly tied to this movie or this era or anything.

Do you feel like watching it now because we have moved so much further in time twenty years right, Yes?

Does it seem like Garden State is now almost like a parody of itself because we saw the proliferation of these types of films, because the Mani Pixie dreamgirl trope has been beaten to death so much, because you know twenty years past that you're just kind of like, oh, this seems a little like corny and derivative and not as great because I don't know like time has moved forward in that way.

Honestly, watching it this time, I was like, this is such a relic.

Yes, Like I like, I actually, like really liked watching for that reason.

Like I remember like shopping at Urban Outfitters in two thousand and four and like finding the clothes that everyone was that people were like wearing in this movie, And so I feel like I can honor it in that way a little bit more than like my direct emotional connection to it.

I can be like, this is like a fun thing to like watch just to see how people are dressed and the music and the just the overall vibe of it.

So it's hard.

I wouldn't say like it's.

A parody necessarily of itself, but I do feel like I'm like, this is just like a time capsule of two thousand and four, and it's kind of in a fun way.

And I feel like, you know, in terms of like defending it, I feel like I have to kind of defend the Garden State in a way because I feel like it is such a punchline to this day.

You know, and I think you're guilty of that.

And I think you said some really weally rude things about this movie, and I think that's kind of fucked up.

Well, listen, I both apologize and don't apologize.

I think that's fine.

I think that's fine.

I'm just kidding obviously.

Like listen, Casey, you have to say maybe, maybe not.

I don't know.

I'm dangling this one.

Yeah, that ending drove me fucking bananas.

Where hither in the airport on the stairs, he's like cupping her tiny little bird face in his hands, and he's just like she's crying her fucking eyes out because he's leaving.

He's going back to lay because she fixed him, and now he's got to go off, you know, fly the coop, fly her bird coop, and she's fucking beside herself with the idea that they're gonna be a part, and he's just like, I gotta go, gotta go fucking wipe the tears away, and then he just like walks away.

She ends up like going into a phone booth and crying, and of course, you know, like we all know what's gonna happen.

Spoiler alert.

I think I think he comes back and realizes he's.

Been an idiot, but that moment felt so I wanted to stab him in the fucking eyeball for that.

Yeah, it felt a little cold.

It felt very like I'm being cavalier now that you know we've had this have to go.

It's just what's gonna happen?

And I was like, fuck that bitch, what the fuck?

Like he's not healed, he's just as a cerbic and abrasive as he always has been.

But he comes back, Milly, he came back.

That felt so stupid.

I know the ending is I think in my little sixteen year old heart, I was kind of like, this ending, there is a realization, but we don't see it, and it's just kind of like, hey, I'm gonna go, you know what, maybe I shouldn't go.

That's essentially that's how it goes.

But there's a lot of cool shots and music playing that Frufreu song really, because I think, like the trailer is with that Frufru song.

It's like, so that was so big in the trailer, and then when you heard it in the movie.

I think I was able to just forgive whatever happened.

I was like, whatever, God, let's talk about a.

Little bit of the soundtrack, because that was like a huge.

Huge you want a Grammy for it?

Who did Zack Braff?

Zack Braff want a Grammy for that movie?

Oh my gosh.

Okay, you should see Millie's face right now.

She's scowling.

I know.

I think it's just because I want to win a Grammy for a soundtrack that I put together aka Spotify playlist.

Maybe you win it for a podcast.

Yeah, well, okay, so the soundtrack, you know, I just like two thousand and four, I was like, actually started my grown up job in two thousand and four, but I was kind of fresh out of undergrad and I'd worked at the college radio station when I was in school, and so this soundtrack was kind of percolating as I was leaving college radio, right, Yeah, certainly all these bands were all over college radio.

Like.

It includes a track from the first track off of the very first cold Play album, which is pretty much the only cold Play album that I fuck with.

Yeah, I kind of like the second one, but the first one is great.

That was the only cold Play I've ever listened to this Yes two album, and then.

Of course you know what happened to Coldplay, But it's like that thing where I was.

Like, oh, I was brought back to that like.

First cold Play album era.

Then of course the Shins, which I feel like the Shins got super popular because of the soundtrack they did.

Yeah, absolutely, And that's like I'd never heard the Shins before.

So when she's like, you want to hear a movie song that will change your life, Oh I heard that, I was like, this is changing my life.

They really picked a song that is changing my life.

Yeah, that worked for me too well.

And like here and here's another part of the movie that it features a song that I actually really love, but the part of the movie that it played and drove me bananas.

It was the Simon gar vocal song The Only Living Boy in New York, which actually think is such.

A sweet song.

I love, yes, I love that, love that song.

But the part that it plays in was like the big, sweet, big romantic moment thing in the movie because basically, you know, it's like there's a section where they're coming out of somebody's weird house in a rock quarry and Zach braff Is I think finally it's kind of the like manifestation of all of his like feelings that he's been feeling since he's been back home, and he has this for this manic pixie dream girl, and it's like him the Natalie Portman character, and then the Peter sarsar character, who I actually love.

Peter Sarsgard, by the way, he's a great too.

He's a great dude.

They're like standing on top of like a like an excavator or something.

Like yeah, and next to a quarry.

Yeah, into Corey and there were in trash bags because it's raining, and then all of a sudden, Zach Braff's character is like, I gotta kiss this woman.

Yeah, and I'll do it in front of my friend who was just watching us, which is so awkward.

Mellie.

This is after they screamed into the quarry emotionally to let it out.

I mean, that was on it.

I admittedly a powerful moment for me in twenty four.

Twenty twenty four, I was like, it'll be Yeah.

There was a lot of this like dorky excising of emotions, like the part where she's in front of the fucking fireplace and she's like doing a tap dance.

Tap dance for you.

I'd love for you to tap dance for me.

I was like, Yo, that's her avoiding intimacy.

By the way, did you know that?

Yes, I mean I think we could do a whole section on her, uh being a non sexual entity and him being a nonsense sexual entity, and like the infantilizing of Natalie Portman, there's a lot to get into there.

But yeah, anyways, continue.

It's like when he admits something to her that's any kind of real vulnerability, She's like, I'm just gonna do a weird dance.

You know.

It just fucking drives me crazy.

But in that moment, there was this moment.

Where I was like, Okay, he just decides that he's like swept away.

In the moment he's on the excavator, the only living boy in New York is playing.

It's a very romantic scene, and then Peter Sarsguard's just looking at them, and I'm like he should have left that excavator.

He's like, oh, my.

Friends are making out.

I gotta go, like, I don't want to watch them.

Or if I was directing that scene, and I've directed some things so I could say this.

If I was directing that scene Peter Sar's Guard, I would have not.

Had that character go up there.

Yes, yes, and that could have been a motivating he could have you know, he's a cigarette smoker.

Maybe he's smoking a cigarette down there.

He doesn't want to climb this thing.

Yeah, and then Natalie Portman and Zach Braff could scream into the quarry and make out and it would be less awkward.

Yeah.

I noticed that when we were watching.

I would have had the drone fly over the two Peter sarsguard exits stage wherever, why climbs off the excitator, Like, Yo, my friends are in a moment, I'm gonna leave because, as a person who has been the third wheel for many romantic encounters in my life, I'm.

Like, I ain't watching these two.

I'm fucking off.

Yes, I have been in the same situations where I think I'm hanging out with two friends and I turn around and they are making out and I'm like, WHOA.

So I have been in that situation where it's been a sneak attack makeout that I didn't know was gonna happen.

Yeah, So I've been there.

But it's too silly of a moment to have in the movie.

Yeah.

Well, like I said, I could truly go on with some of the stuff.

But the soundtrack to me, I mean it was kind of like a mixed bag in terms of how I was feeling at the time when I was rewatching it, because I was like, oh, this Coldplay song still hits oh frough frough Wow, Okay, this happening at this really important in time, Like the lyrics of it are so appropriate for the scene that it's happening in, and you know.

Then there was also like, I don't know these bands that I remember that I haven't heard since this.

Yeah, like no, totally, Remy.

Zero, I have not heard Remy zero since two thousand and four.

Yeah, I mean at the time, I was like, every song on this hits so hard, And now when I listened to it, I was like a few of these hits.

Yeah, the rest of bit Millie, we we kind of got to get moving on here.

Is there any last thoughts you have?

Yes, I will.

I will say this.

As much as I've shipped.

On your me as a person, all over me.

As a person, your interior life, your feelings, your childhood, all of that, I actually think it's insanely adorable that you loved.

This movie as much as you did.

And could admit to it.

And can talk about it with no has because we should not be embarrassed by the things.

There is no cringe to me.

I don't believe in cringe.

Yes, I mean you and I have talked off record.

We are cringe, but we are free, you know, and there is no cringe.

We moved through the cringe.

That's right.

Like, it's wonderful that you're like this is I was shaped by a film like this, and I know everybody thinks it's lame, but I will defend it.

Steah, I don't know, there's something very sweet about that, and I feel like it ends up making me like people more when they can say stuff like that, Like, I don't know, I just I appreciate it as much as I did not have that experience.

You know, I was already in my like stupid idiot edge lord, twenty five year old, you know, smoking cigarettes, watching cannibal movies from Italy type of modes.

I hold space for you having the passion and the appreciation for Garden State.

Well, thank you.

I understand all the criticism of it, and even I have grown.

I did buy it on Blu Ray.

Oh, so I now own this movie.

So if the apocalypse comes, and I'm having to watch movie via generator in my you know, shack out in the woods.

I will be able to watch Garden State forever.

Is there a Zach Braff commentary on that blu ray?

I believe there is, and I think I've actually watched the Zach Braff commentary already at some point.

I don't really want to like elaborate on this, but it is sort of interesting that Zach Braff didn't become a bigger filmmaker.

He didn't make another movie for ten years.

Oh wow, this was a hit.

Yeah, you know, and it's a movie he wrote and directed and started.

You'd think he would have had another one lined up in a year or two.

But his legacy is odd too, as I see him in commercials for a cell phone company now with the other guy from Scrubs, and it makes me sort of sad, yeah too, because I'm like, you could have been, like, I don't know, A two thousand's Hal hartleyer sure, which I have more to say about Hal Hartley and my recommendation section.

I just think there's space for this type of movie, a sensitive, romantic, funny movie, and I don't think we get movies like this anymore.

And like you can say what you will about Garden State, I wish there were more movies that were kind of like Garden State.

We just don't have those anymore, and that makes me sad.

Yeah, I would agree with that.

I feel like earnestness isn't a weird place right now generally.

Yeah, I agree.

All right.

Moving on to something that I'm interested in scared of.

Really presented the idea of doing a sensitive boy as quiz to me, and I feel like I'm the authority on sensitive boys.

I am a sensitive boy.

Yes, you know, I am a straight white male, but I like to identify as a soft strait however you want.

I am a soft straight and you know I mean that in every way of that you know meaning.

And so I feel like I am the authority on this type of stuff.

So Millie, take it away.

What are we doing today?

All right?

So we're playing a little game here.

It's gonna be five questions.

Each question is gonna be basically a synopsis or log line or something about a movie that has come out in the past.

I would say thirty to forty years, so nothing, nothing that's super old.

I would say, keep it in like the seventies, eighties, nineties, and beyond two thousands.

Perhaps.

Okay, I'm gonna read you the synopsis of the film, and I need you to name the film.

And then if you can remember the character's name or who played the character or characters in some of us, then that'd be great.

But just name the name the movie.

So this is basically a a game where you have to guess what movie features you know, a sensitive boy, a sensitivevo bro, or a you know, some kind of beautiful male creature in a film.

A beautiful male creature.

I love that.

And so I get a point for naming the movie, and I get a point for naming the actor.

Is that right?

Yeah, Well, if you just name the movie, you get a point.

Okay, if you remember the character name or of the person who played them, great, But just name the movie.

That's that's the meat of this game.

Okay, okay, all right, Question number one in our sensitive Boys.

Game, I'm listening.

I have my listening face.

A group of thoughtful young men attempting a prep school in the late nineteen fifties create a secret club inspired by their favorite teacher, where they explore writing, poetry and the pursuit of their true.

Passions dead poet society.

Correct.

Yeah, lots of sensitive boys.

They love the theater film and they love making a scene by standing up on a desk and reciting to their favorite teacher.

Yes, God, I went, and it's so a tumnal and like East Coast.

I really wanted to be on the East Coast as a kid.

I mean maybe that's why I like Garden steakecause I was like, well, I want to be a New Jersey.

I want to be out of Minneapolis.

But yeah, yeah I would.

If you were to say Ethan Hawk or Robert Sean Leonard.

He was kind of the most sensitive Sean Leonard.

Yes, he was kind of like a gay coded character, wouldn't you say?

Maybe Ethan Hawk's character too was a little gay coded.

So anyway, absolutely right, So you got one.

Right, great fabulous fabulus.

Number two sensitive boy, a sports agent decides to adopt a more personal, ethical approach to his career after being fired from his job, navigating both professional struggles and a complicated relationship with a single.

Mother and her child.

Jerry McGuire.

It's interesting you bring up Jerry McGuire because that's another Cameron Chrome movie.

US a sensitive dude, and I think it's funny.

He also it gets name checked, but the ultimate sensitive boy book Catcher in the Rye is name checked in that movie.

So anyways, to right, you got that second one, right?

How could you not?

Tom Cruise, Cuba Gooding, Junior, Rene ze Elwiger, Jonathan Lipnikki.

I forgot about that name.

Wow you get bonus for that?

Yeah, my goodness.

J Moore Moore, Yeah, man, it's been a while since I've seen that.

There's a there's a video collective in La called Everything Is Terrible?

Yes, have you seen them?

I have?

Yeah, they do tours, okay, and they had a thing where they were like collecting every VHS copy of Jerry McGuire.

I think they have like thousands of Jerry McGuire because I think it's a frequent one in like a goodwill VHS spin it's like every but he had Jerry mcguarre on VHS.

So anyways, that's.

Weirdly enough, my family did not.

Even though my parents had the weirdest VHS tapes, they only had like twelve or something, ten or twelve and they were all weird as shit.

It's fun.

I'm surprised Jerry McGuire wasn't one of them anyway.

That's the second one.

Great got you right number three in our Sensitive Boys quiz.

In this nineteen eighties coming of age classic, a sensitive and mature young boy from a troubled family becomes the emotional leader of a group of friends who are on a journey to find a dead body.

Oh stand by Me, Yes, Oh man, this is a weeper.

This isn't just like a sensitive boy.

I feel like this is just I can't really even watch this movie anyway.

Wow, it was like that monologue of River Phoenix talking about stealing the lunch money.

I think you guys covered this song.

Oh we did.

I saw what you did.

I mean, it's so just such a gut punch, And like, I remember being really affected when the epilogue when they're like, this is what happened to the characters?

Oh, and you're like.

God, spoiler alert, me fucking dies And I was like shook.

That haunted me forever.

Yes, you know, it's kind of similar to the end of American Graffiti, where it's like their lives sucked after this kind of yeah, And it's like the main character in Standby Me becomes a successful writer, but it's like one guy lost his mind in Vietnam.

One guy.

It's just kind of like, man, fuck, that is so fucking depressing.

So depressing.

I was like, is this why Stephen King is because this horrible fact has been brought in here and now I'm mully it over for the rest of my life.

You got stabbed in the neck standing in line, like at a fast food restaurant.

There was something like that.

It's like, God almighty.

Yeah.

Well, but I would argue that River Phoenix was like one of the og sens of boys from my childhood.

So would I would have literally I would have killed the person if I could have had his hair.

Oh God, I had such a curly hair in the nineties, and it was all about that River Phoenix, cool guy hair.

If someone was like one person on earth could die, but you'd have that hair, I would be like, do I have to know that person?

And they were like no.

I might have said yes because I was like, I wanted that hair so badly.

I mean, listen his whole mythology at this point.

I mean, it's it's kind of interesting to call it a mythology, but it is.

I mean, he was like a famous young actor that died young.

So of course there's just like an aura and a mythology around him in his life.

Right in this era when he became like nineties famous, when he was dating Martha Plimpton, who to me was like she was she symbolized with the actual cool girl because she was kind of like Tom boyish.

She was like alternative, you know, she wasn't like this.

She just seemed like a girl that I would know from my high school and be friends with.

So when she was dating River Phoenix, and you know it was like rumored that he was bisexual or whatever, I was like, this is who I want to thrive forever.

I wanted to live together in a Brownstone in New York and grow old together.

Yeah, they were going to be my you know, the model for my life.

It was such a magical time when they were together.

And I know that he was probably going through demons and there was a lot of tucked in there, but like, honestly, for my money, that was the eternal couple for me.

Fascinating anyway, Okay, moving on, So you got three right, number four.

I thought you're gonna make this hard.

I know, Listen, I had to softball it because I wasn't sure what.

You were going to think.

Yeah, if I had done badly, I might have gotten too sensitives.

Yeah, cried about it.

I should I should have pulled in some gudar and really rocked you.

Number four A compassionate, sensitive, and unorthodox therapist helps a troubled young genius working as a jenner at MIT past and realize his full potential.

See.

I thought, I was like, oh, this is a good one.

She's doing ordinary people.

Oh but I also I love that movie Sensitive Boy in the Hall of Fame for sensitive boy movies of course.

Oh goodwille Hunting.

Uh.

Speaking of River Phoenix, gus Fan Sant directed My Own Private Idaho with River Phoenix, and he's kind of a sensitive boy director too.

Well.

And here's the thing, this is technically the second Robin Williams in this quiz.

Yeah, and it's not very long.

But his character is the sensitive Yes.

As much as like people focus on Matt Damon and sort of his evolution in the movie, No, the therapist is a sensitive boy.

He's the soft boy.

Yeah, you know, the soft boy.

Yeah.

His whole speech about talking about his late wife is on TikTok like all the time and every fucking time I watch it all the way through.

We need to do an episode about movies on TikTok.

Oh, my god, that would blow the doors off.

We would have what two million downloads.

Easily, we'd have so many gen Z followers.

Put a pit in that casey Jesus.

Okay, last one, last one, Okay, bring up the caboose.

Here we go, last and the Sensitive Boys quiz number five.

A high school graduate falls deeply in love with a girl from his class, famously holding a boombox above his head while it plays Peter Gabriels in your eyes outside of her window as the ultimate expression of his true feelings.

Say anything, yes?

Now?

Uh?

Lots of sensitive boys in this movie.

John Cusack obviously ultimate sensitive boy.

Do you think that Lloyd Dobbler is the prototype for the sensitive boy?

And maybe like the Zach Braff iteration of the sensitive boy?

Yeah?

Oh, I definitely the prototype for the sensitive boy.

I didn't bring this up, but I feel like a could be made for Harold from Harold and Mont.

Yes.

Absolutely, okay, the graduate, Yes, he's a sensitive boy, sure, but John Cusack is in that lineage certainly.

I actually know someone who did this sort of unironically and held music outside somebody's window like this.

What It's one of those things.

It's kind of like Garden State where you're like really really, but it's still touching and it's a it's a good movie.

It's a little bit darker than I think.

Like the whole thing was like the dad going to jail, yes and saying anything is odd?

And is that Cameron Crowe?

Oh, I'm just saying I.

Think Cavin Crowe was responsible for a lot of this, a lot of this malarkey.

The architect, he directed it.

He is the architect for the Sensitive Boy Boy.

What has Cameron crow done recently?

I don't know.

Is he still married to the one of the Heart sisters?

Oh, Nancy Wilson, No, oh no.

Well you got all five right, just like I thought.

Wow, thank you, Millie, Wow fabulous, Thank you so much for putting that together.

Of course I knew I would ace it, but it still feels good to get a good score on that.

Yeah.

Now it's time for employee picks.

This is where we recommend movies based on, you know, the things we talked about in this very episode.

Millie, what do you got?

You know, I was thinking, what is one of my favorite sensitive boys?

And maybe this is a bit dark.

I'm taking it in the darker direction.

I would have to say that my film recommendation for this week would have to be a Psycho from nineteen sixty because Norman Bates.

Wow, it is a sensitive boy.

Yes, certainly, I would say too sensitive, very much, very much.

So here's the thing.

I mean.

Recommending Psycho is like recommending that you drink water every day.

I know it's such a layup, but it's so good.

I've watched it in the last two years and it's so I went through a bit of a Hitchcock thing, yes, a little while back, but Psycho is so good.

I think so too.

If you're a person who sort of like again, like feels a little suss about the kind of Cannon film Cannon, classic film Cannon, and you think Alfred Hitchcock, Ugh, why what I he seems like such a dude or whatever.

I think Psycho is one of his best and feels like a slightly different take than certain things.

I mean, honestly, it's great.

It's like a great character study.

I think Norman Bates as a character is super fascinating obviously for many reasons.

Yeah, but I also think, like if you ever read about Anthony Perkins and the actor who Playedrman Bates obviously and sort of his life before and after he played Norman Bates is really fascinating, Like he really couldn't shake it.

Yeah, and he tried a lot.

He actually tried and then didn't try because then he started the Psycho remakes.

We did all of them.

I think I have not seen these movies.

A Psycho four is kind of great, dude, Like it's weird.

Check it out.

So it's like there's something to the idea of like him remaining tied to a film as the franchise destroys the original legacy of the film.

Like it's that funny thing of like that's a person who just wants to keep going and keep making worse and worse iterations of this classic.

Yeah, I love that.

But I also think that he did try to do some interesting stuff after, and I think people just thought he was creepy for the rest of his life.

I think it's sad because I feel like it's much easier to pivot to a different type of thing now, Like people are much more forgiving of Like there was a time not too long ago when it was like, oh, you're on TV, you can't be in movies.

Yeah, you'd never be a movie star.

And it's like people are much more accepting of that now, or like, oh, you started off as this one specific thing and now you do something else.

But like back then, if you're like known as Norman Bates, you're Norman Bates.

There's no way to get away from that.

Yeah.

And also I mean his son, Oz Perkins, who's out here making a shit ton of horror movies.

He did Long Legs.

Yeah, the movie The Monkey is about to come out.

He did the Pretty Little Thing in the House.

I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, So I like his movies.

He's good.

So it's kind of cool that his son is a kind of a horror director now.

Anthony Perkins also wrote a great who done it called The Last of Sheila, which he co wrote with Stephen Sondheu.

Yeah, which is a great movie.

Love that movie.

That's not my wreck, not my wreck, but it's good.

Well what is your wreck?

Then?

Smarty Pants, sensitive Boy, smarty pants sky over here.

So I brought this guy up already.

There's a filmmaker named Hal Hartley, and he is kind of a nineties indie king.

I would say his most famous movie is what would you say, Henry, Henry Fool.

He's made a ton of movies, but he is a very independent filmmaker, Like he owns his own movies, and he like distributed his own movies.

I think he like funded his own movies.

And he's just like a really interesting guy.

And I don't think he's celebrated enough because a lot of his movies are about sensitive boys, yes, and they're romantic, and they're kind of silly and cute, but also kind of dark.

And he made a lot of his stuff just like on Long Island, and he's great.

I haven't seen all of his movies.

Some of them are a bit eye rolly, you might say, a little bit like just they're earnest and they're sincere, and that can sometimes come across as cringey, as Millie said.

But I'm gonna recommend one of his first movies, Trust.

Yeah.

I love that movie.

I love Trust And I mentioned he's independent.

Stream it on his website go to Helhartley dot com.

You can stream it there, don't rent it from Amazon if you can just to support the filmmaker.

And a quick story about Hal Hartley.

I'm in the midst of making an independent film right now and I was trying to raise money and it was really hard.

And I wrote to him on his website what and he wrote me back what with a very thoughtful email.

Wow.

Now, I was basically like, how do you do this?

I'm in hell?

This sucks.

I don't think you'll ever write me back, but I just had to like express that to somebody, you know, trying to raise money for this.

He wrote me back the sweetest email, and he was laying basically was like, yep, raising money even now a successful filmmaker as I am, it is hell and it sucks, and it was really sweet.

Now, I don't know if I would if I ever wrote him back, you'd write me back.

It was just like maybe I just caught him on the right day.

Yes, it made me like him even more.

And so he's like my sensitive boy king watch trust Yeah.

On his website Hal Hartley dot com.

He's awesome.

You know what I love about Hal Hartley.

One of the things of many things is that his like muse or something was Martin Donovan, who was like this cool actor.

You know what, I what I kind of think it's in the same way.

It's kind of like Hal Hartley used Martin Donovan in the same way that with Stillman uses Chris Eigman for his films.

It's kind of like this, you know actor that they work with in many movies, but that that actor becomes kind of the archetype for that director's movie.

Totally like the Martin.

Donovan characters that are in the Hall Hartley movies.

Becomes a guy that you just associate with Hal Hartley and the same thing I feel with with Stillman and Chris Aigman, same vibe.

Yeah, all this is.

To say I missed the nineties so much because this was like a thing that I felt like happened a lot in nineties movies, and I just wish it would happen more.

Yes, So yeah, that's my recommendation.

Trust God to hell Heartley dot com and support him.

He had a Kickstarter like a year ago for his newest movie.

I mean it's hard out there, even for someone who's made a bunch of movies.

Yeah, Wow, what a cool dude.

Well, that's our show.

In the future.

We would love to be giving out film advice at the end of our show, sort of a mail bag of sorts, but to give you all advice.

If you need a specific recommendation, if you need help navigating a director's filmography, or if you need a film gripe resolved, please write in.

You can email us at Deer Movies at exactly rightmedia dot com.

Yes, and for some reason you want to do it with a voicemail.

Even if you want to ask for advice or if you just want to say something to us, you can do a voicemail and all I gotta do is record it on your phone.

Make sure it's under one minute law please and email it to us at Dearmovies at exactlyrightmedia dot com.

You can follow us on our socials at dear Movies, I love you on Instagram and Facebook.

Yes, and if you are a letterboxed user and you want to follow us, we are at Casey le O'Brien and at m to Jericho.

Well, Millie, thank you so much for letting me talk about the most important movie of the twenty first century, Garden State, and uh being patient with me, and you know, being patient rewatching a movie.

I don't know if you necessarily absolutely loved upon your first viewing, So I appreciate that.

Listen, I appreciate that you appreciate it, and I appreciate you, and that's all that matters.

Thank you, Milly, Bye, everybody, goodbye.

This has been an exactly right production hosted by me Millie to Cherico and produced by my co host, Casey O'Brien.

This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfocal.

Our associate for is Christina Chamberlain, our guest booker is Patrick Cottner, and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

Our incredible theme music is by the best man in the entire world, The Softies.

Thank you to our executive producers Karen Kilgarriff, Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer and Millie to Jerico, we love you.

Goodbye, Beker