Five, six, seven, eight, higher, not too high?

Higher?

Did I mention it?

Not too high?

Lower?

Keep going, keep going.

You've got this.

You've got this cool thrust it, thrust it, thrust it, all right, that's enough.

Cut the music, Cut the music.

We're done.

We're done.

I've seen enough.

Oh God, you're moving like a tank out there.

Home boy.

Have you been eating brown rice and vegetables?

Feels like you haven't.

I'm sorry, I've just been eating so many cheeseburgers.

I don't like brown rice and vegetables.

Listen, I know you've had.

It rough in life.

You're here different places I know, and we don't know all those places, to be honest, because it feels like you I have a very shady character, dude, and we have our HR people looking into it.

Don't worry about it.

But I have to say, as a dancer, and this is just my professional opinion, it feels like you could do it higher but not too high.

You could thrust it a lot more.

I mean just going to say that.

Head on, head on down to verses and get you a little dress and we'll meet back up later on so I can do your nails.

What's up?

Well, I'll go do all that.

I'll you know, make sure my nails are done up.

I'll eat some dog food and some puppy chow.

But I also, you know, today is a big day on the podcast, Millie.

It's not just because we're doing these new dancing sessions, which I don't know how long this will last, but we're also talking about the nineteen ninety five classic show Girls.

That is right, we definitely are.

It's actually an anniversary.

Right, thirty years?

Yeah, thirty years of show Girls.

That's crazy.

I think it's actually crazy as well.

And this is a movie that I mean, we're gonna get into this obviously in the episode that we're about to do, but like the persistence of this movie, what's changed?

Have we changed as a culture?

Has the movie changed?

Do you like it more?

Do you like it less?

All of these things we're about to poke in product and it's gonna be a great episode.

I mean, to be perfectly honest with you, I feel like I'm so excited to be talking about this movie finally, because I've never talked about it.

I think on a podcast I've never been able to express my I don't know about you, but I've never been able to express these motions.

I'm going to be like flailing around in the water in like a.

Really nice pool, underground pool, flailing around with like, yeah, maybe there's like a water feature, water cure the water feature on the pool that are flailing under poring champagne on your head.

Yes, it's I mean, there's so much to get to, it's unbelievable.

We also have a wonderful guest on this episode.

Alicia Malone, is going to be on to talk later about one of her areas of expertise, and she has many, but the one she has decided to talk about with us is actors fake drinking from coffee mugs.

And that's a really great conversation.

I can't wait to get into that with her.

It's so oddly specific and I love it.

I'm so excited for relation too, because she was my old colleague at TCM and she's really, really smart and we have a really good time with her.

That's right, all right, let's go again, ready, casey five, six, seven, eight?

Ah huh do you and I've got to.

Love me?

Check the books?

Alrighty, folks, you are listening to dear Movies.

I love you.

This is a podcast if you haven't figured that out already, where we basically talk about movies, it's four people who are in a relationship with movies.

My name is Millie to Jericho, my name is Casey O'Brien.

And this is gonna be a great episode.

We're obviously very excited to talk about this juggernaut, this cinematic juggernaut, show Girls from nineteen eighty five, and there's gonna be some great, great little bits, So please go on the ride with us.

Okay, right off the bat, we got some film news we got to talk about.

I actually texted you about this because I was like, we got to talk.

About this podcast.

So I sent you this TikTok video right of the pop singer Charlie.

XCX and Cinephile.

Apparently that's what I'm.

Here to talk about.

So Charlie XCX is now basically doing a film diary on her TikTok where she logs she has a letterbox account and she logs the movies that she watches.

And I gotta tell you, I'm okay, I know we're in an era where extremely famous people can somehow access good things.

Okay, We're not, like, not all famous people or pop stars are that have like bad tastes and like don't know anything cool?

Right, I mean some of them actually do.

I mean look at the Criterion closet, like you're like, oh cool, there's like a really cool famous person in there, and they like some really esoteric, you know, centophile classic kind of thing.

But can I say something about the Criterion closet.

Go ahead, dude, they're letting too many people in there.

Okay, that's another film, right, But I got to film right and I've been in the Criterion closet twice, so whoa, Oh yeah baby, I've been in twice.

Amazing day.

Did did you take a video of it?

Hell?

No, I'm not at that level.

It's like they let me in the Here's the thing, guys, you can get into the closet.

I mean, if you like know somebody that works there, you can get in the closet.

I worked on Films Truck with Criterion for many years.

I was in that closet all the time.

Okay, are you able to just take stuff?

Well?

Yeah, I mean if you get here's the thing.

If you go into the closet, the understanding is that you get to pick some things.

Okay, leave with something.

And I personally was always trying to be very I was not going for broke.

I was sure trying to be very tasteful.

I didn't want to take too many things because I didn't want to be what's the famous story that my friend Brian told me.

My friend Ryan that works there told me that, like because I asked him once.

I was like, who was the who was somebody that took like the most DVD's, like somebody just like cleaned you out, and he said, I think it was Juliette Binoche.

I certainly did not want to be Juliette Binoche.

That's so funny that it was Juliet Banoche, like the height of like regal Parisian actors, like just a beauty and like elegance, and she was the one that took the most.

It's so funny.

I was like imagining she was doing like a supermarket sweep type of shit where she's just taking her arm and just like clearing up shelves, which I thought was hilarious.

But I was like, well, I don't I'm not Juliet Panosh.

I don't want to take I'm going to be tasteful and this happened both times that I was in the closet.

By the way I was, I was very tasteful and judicious.

But anyway, they'll let you in the closet if you know somebody that works there, or if you're visiting, you can go and get the thing that you want.

Right back in the day, though, it was really like a rare occurrence to go into the closet like here.

Once in a while you'd be like, oh, Actnsvarda is in the Criterion closet.

And then now it's become it's a fandango.

Anybody can get it.

It's a fandango.

You don't even have to be associated with movies in any way.

You can just be like, I don't know the host of like Love Island and go in there.

Yeah, it's yeah exactly.

I think before it, but even before I think they let in some non film people, but it would take like a very high level, like it would be something very important.

Charlie XCX.

You can go in the Criterion closet.

Yeah.

And that's the thing is that, like we're the age of you know, big content.

Anybody can get a Criterion Channel subscription.

You can be very very famous and not vapid and stupid, Okay, but I was still surprised at her taste.

Like I was still like, oh, she watched two Robert Barsson movies.

I'm like, damn, Yeah, that's pretty well.

Her top four is incredible.

Yeah, what's her top four?

I didn't Her favorite films are able for rare was The Addiction Damn, which is an amazing vampire movie.

He did.

She has Selene and Julie go boding Okay, Mapped to the Stars by David Cronenberg and Phantom Thread.

A pretty impressive four favorites.

That that's my.

Girl right there.

Bread.

I think she just won us over really in this podcast.

I was already a fan.

See, yeah, me too.

Not for nothing.

I was just about to say not for nothing.

Many years ago.

I'd say it was over a decade ago.

This was before brat summer obviously, when she was kind of just on the scene.

Perhaps she was doing she did done that song with the Iconopop that I Love It song?

There was that what's that thing that she did with is Jack Antonov which is called Bleachers?

Is that was she in Bleachers?

Right?

Or she?

Yeah?

Because she did that song roller Coaster, She's saying, which that was the first Okay, the very first Charlie XCX song I'd ever heard was roller Coaster, and I was like, well, isn't this charming and lovely?

I love this song?

So anyway, cut to I'm at the fucking Braves game with my friends Ben in parks that were just like goobers, were just sitting around.

It's like a Monday night, and then they announced Charlie XCX is performing after the Braves game, and we were like, oh shit, let's want to stay and watch it.

It was fun.

She was was this when this was?

This was half years ago?

Yeah, summer ten, twelve years ago.

Oh okay, she was.

She was playing the Braves game like for free.

She's been around forever because she was on Iggy Azalea's song Fancy.

That was the first time I'd ever heard.

Yes, that's what it was late.

Forever ago, and so it's really cool that she kind of like popped off last summer, like in her early to mid thirties.

I think that's cool.

Okay, when hold on, I got to find out when that is AliOS On came o, I forgot all about it.

I bet twenty thirteen that.

Album came out in twenty fourteen, so you're very close.

Holy fucking shit, I forgot about Iggyzalea.

Oh my god.

I think we as a nation did all forget about Iggy azale I think we had to, if you know what I'm saying, I too, we had to let her go.

But yeah, so I am very pleasantly surprised at the taste level on Charlie XCX in terms of movies.

I kind of want her to come on our podcast.

She would never, but I'm.

Just saying, Charlie, an open invitation extended to you.

Come on and we'll talk about Abel Ferrara's The Addiction, which now I'm looking at Lily Taylor.

Her look in The Addiction is not unlike Charlie XCX's look with the sunglasses and the kind of ratty hair.

I know that I slipped in a film gripe as we were talking about Charlie XCX's letterbox, but I actually do have a film grape this week, and it's really like, I'm not calling out The New York Times, because why would I do that.

Actually I know a lot of people who would.

But this whole thing that happened with the greatest films of the twenty first century.

Okay, every fucking person on my social media was weighing in on it, you know, big, huge, important like list making thing.

And this is my film grape, my film gripe.

Is I hate these greatest of All Time lists?

I hate them.

I've always hated them.

You and I are not seeing iday.

I knew it.

I knew it.

I know you love a.

Goatlest love a list.

I remember in it was either two thousand and six or two thousand and seven.

I eagerly opened up Rolling Stone magazine to see who was listed as the best album of the year, and it was m IA's Calla And I remember going yes because that really mattered to me.

That just that just illustrates how much lists matter to me.

Well, okay, let me why why why do you do you want to know the information?

Do you want to be told what's the greatest?

Like what?

I think it's.

Nice for a publication to make a statement being like this is these are the best, and that is like a foundation upon which I can either react and be like ooh, I strongly disagree with that, or if I agree, it's like aha, I am right.

I get validation.

So I get both kind of validation and argument.

I guess, for lack of a better term, but yeah, you need a rudder on your boat.

See, I'm very much the opposite.

I feel like I like it when I don't know.

Maybe it's just my personality.

You can't pin me down, baby, I'm not giving you a fucking top one hundred list of anything that I like.

We're just like, I mean, I'll just tell you.

When we were coming up with the concept of the TCM Underground book, you know, I was a very adamant that it wasn't going to be a fifty greatest Cult Movies of All Time book.

That was like something I had zero interest in.

I was like, I don't want to rank these shits.

I didn't want people to come into my dms for the rest of my fucking life to like debate what made the list and what didn't you know, I just said, here are fifty movies that we think that are we should watch that have aired on TCM Underground, and that's it.

There's no ranking, there's no like this is better than that, because I just think it's so it's I just like I am annoyed by it because then I think, my the opposite of what you have just said, which is that I don't like the debating part, because I'm looking at this list right now.

Okay, so they published it one hundred to one.

These are the best movies that came out in the twenty first century aka of the two thousands, and already I'm looking at this thing.

I mean a lot of it is stuff that I like, don't get me wrong.

But then I'm like, going, okay, so there are two Wes Anderson movies that are high up on the list, and they're smacked together, like why are they twenty one and twenty two?

Like I'm just like, why would they put that like that?

And now I'm sitting there going okay, well, haw com up, this is at twenty two.

But then you know, finom Thread is at twenty five, Like that's stupid.

And I'm like this again, like why I don't like this list?

Because I get caught up in the fine details of the ranking and I start getting pissed off.

And then I'm like, well, fuck the New York Times.

I fucking hate them and I'm not paying for them anymore.

See what I mean.

I just feel like.

It's not productive.

It's not healthy.

It sounds like.

For me maybe personally for you, it sounds like it's your you know, it's like a party time.

It's like a party time.

I'm having a blast, me and the New York Times doing the tango.

I I think you're right.

I mean, I'm a I'm a weak minded individual.

I need someone to tell me what to do and how to feel and how to think.

And uh so I enjoy there being sort of a sounding board for that sure out there.

I guess, I think honestly, how these are most useful.

This happens when I'm getting into a new band.

I will usually be like, for example, I'll be like Guided by Voices albums ranked because I'm like, I want to find out what people think are the best one.

And then I'm like, oh, I listened to everyone the one that everyone thought is the best?

Yeah, B thousand or Alien Lanes, And now I'm like, where do I go from here?

You know?

And so you can kind of trickle down to like other things, you know, So that's I do like ranked lists for that practical purpose.

But I see what you're saying where it's like it doesn't matter and it is it kind of goes against the concept of art in general, that it can't be ranked and numbered in that way.

So okay, so let me ask you this, now that the list has been published, are you happy with the fact that they have told you that the number one movie of the twenty first century is Parasite by Balm Juneoe.

Am I happy that they're telling me that they have ordered me to understand that that's the number one the best movie of the twenty eighth first century?

But see, here's the thing.

I'm like, Oh, I don't think that's the best movie of the twenty first century.

Interesting, Yeah, And then I look at number two, Maulholland Drive, and I'm kind of like, that is the movie I think is the best movie of the twenty first century.

Wow.

So yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Well, okay, I don't know how to feel about it.

Well, okay, so I but it's making me think.

You know, what I do like about this list is that it feels topical, Like all these movies feel topical in some way.

It's like, Okay, Parasite, Mulholland Drive, there will be blood, you know, there's all like Moonlight, No Country for Old Man.

These are all big great movies that it feels like, you know, get out there's that are part of like the cultural moment of the twenty first century.

You know.

But then you know, you go further down the list, it starts getting a little little hairy, little hair, a little less importante, which I guess is the point.

I mean, like, then one hundred one hundred.

Is super Bad and you hate this, Well, the.

Funny thing is that I actually think super Bad is funny.

I just but again, should it a peer auto list of one hundred greatest movies a forever century?

It's like, this is the fucking thing.

I'm just like, why are we doing this to ourselves?

Can we just have a yeah?

And you know, like just to like look at like a number ninety six is Ryan Cougler's Black Panther right now, that movie I do not think is better than a lot of Ryan Kugler's movies.

I think fruit Vale Station and Sinners is better than Black Panther.

But Black Panther was more of a significant cultural event than those two movies, you know, so like it's not even considering it a movie, it's considering it like a moment, you know what I mean?

Exactly.

I mean, it's like.

And then you throw in something like Agnes Barda The Gleaners and I which is like, okay, that movie in the like notches above Black Panther is so bizarre.

I'm just like, yes, it's very bizarre.

This is the problem I believe with ranking.

So anyway, my point is, I guess we're talking about it.

So it did its job.

We're shit chatting about it, we're clicking that, we're click baiting all over the Oh, this.

Is what they wanted from the very wanted us to do this.

But I'm just.

Saying for the record, my film gripe is that I hate definitive ranked list of things that just noise.

Yeah.

Well, and I was trying to think of the opposite of a film gripe, and my initial pitch was film grope.

But groping is not good unless you want it, want it, And I'm going to say, in this situation, I want to be it's consensual groping.

So my film grope is that I like lists, so kind of like two sides of the coin there, fabulous.

Well, should we move on to our film diaries shore our lists?

I'm gonna and I'm gonna rank the best movies I saw the best movies of the last week in order.

Well, I am two only because I always saw one, so it.

Has to be okay, Well, yes, let me know what did you watch?

Well, probably we got to open up the diary.

Whoa, the thing is disgusting.

Frankly, so I watched.

Speaking of crand directors, I suppose.

Oh, I watched for the very first time.

First, I watched this movie from twenty eighteen.

It was directed by Lee Chang Dong and it's called Burning.

Wow.

Now did this movie make the top one hundred movies of the I don't know.

I gotta fine go look for it.

Okay, never mind, I can't find this.

But oh yeah, well, well like The Hull Would Reporter released one hundred best or fifty best movies of the twenty first century a couple of years ago, and Burning was at number thirteen for them.

Oh so just sort of interesting.

Yeah that's what I uh, I forgot you getting me down this film?

Grapehole again, dog?

Yeah, grapehole, the gripehole.

Maybe we should open up a bar and called the gripehole.

You don't like that idea?

I don't know there's something kind of unsavory, but grapehole.

Okay, so back to burning.

Back to burning.

Excuse me, I'm sorry for that, Tom.

No, that's all right.

So I've not seen any Lee Chang Dong movies, although when I was going down my hole, my research hole about him, I didn't realize that, you know, he had done so much as like a writer too and stuff.

I mean, I it seems very fascinating to me, and quite honestly, seems like a dude that I would dig a lot, because he is political and has you know, makes makes political films.

And here's the thing about so many of these Korean films that I've seen from maybe in the twenty first century, like Burning, like Parasite, is that they and Squid Game I think is another perfect example of this.

It's like they're all these kind of films about class.

Yeah, and I love films about class.

I feel like it's these these films were like films that I really gravitated towards, especially in my twenties, because I was just very activated by issues about class and class warfare and and you know, the rich versus the not rich.

I feel like it's even worse now, like we should be making every fucking movie about class, and maybe it should.

Maybe some of these movies are actually about class, and I don't know it, but like this movie was so interesting because it was like kind of about I mean, it kind of had this like talented mister Ripley vibe because Stephen Young's in the film, and he whom I love, very cute, very cute man.

He plays this kind of I don't know, this like charismatic psycho kind of guy.

So the baseline story, I'm sure you've seen it.

I know you did because you locked it.

But for those who haven't seen it, as basically, there's a young man who is, you know, kind of like taking care of his father's farm, is kind of like a wage order in soul, and then like meets up one day with like an old classmate.

They kind of develop a romance, and then.

She goes off to Africa for.

Like a trip, a long trip, and he's like taking care of her cat, and even though the cat does not appear, and it's that's a whole other side of the story.

But anyway, she comes back from Africa and he's with this like Steven Yun character who's this complete opposite type dude.

He's like, drives a nice car.

He's very fancy and rich and has like the polish that this other guy doesn't have.

And so there's this like weird moment where I think the talent mister Ripley thing comes to mind.

Is where it's like, here's a guy who's just doing the most and has this like life that I want, and he's obviously wooing this woman that I am interested in, and I'm going to figure out if he's crazy or not.

Yeah, And that's the movie.

It's basically kind of like a slow burned thriller Identity Missing People.

Like, it's kind of creepy and fun.

It's long.

It's a very long movie.

And that's the thing.

The criticisms that I have read is that it's too long and too mandering.

I don't think that.

Yeah, No, it's a great film.

I can't wait to see some of his other films, Like, yeah, Poetry.

Poetry is maybe the most devastating movie I've ever seen.

Oh shit, but it's very good.

Yeah, well start on my list, on my list.

Very good, very good.

My turn.

I saw Mission Impossible, the Final Reconi.

Maybe I'm just a dumb idiot.

You know, maybe I'm just a stupid, fat head idiot.

And uh, because I love these movies.

They are totally enticing to me, and I this was like most people say, this one wasn't very good.

It's a mess narratively really yeah, but it's still so intoxicating.

And some of these like stunt set pieces that Tom Cruise goes through.

He's in this like sunken submarine at one that that scene is so intense and frightening, and I'm honestly like, how did Tom Cruise not die making this movie?

You know, that's like always the joke, But some of these stunts, You're like, I am actually like shocked he isn't in the ground right now.

So I had a blast.

I'm kind of It's supposed to be the last one, but it was left very open end.

She feels like they would never see that coffin you know that.

Yeah so well, but he's like in his sixties.

He's like the same age as my mom, and I would not want my mom doing the things that that man is doing.

I know.

Here's the thing, Casey, that I really really truly believe this.

I mean, he he probably has died like ten times, and they just inject him with alien blood that we don't know, the public doesn't know about.

This is my great conspiracy theory, is that Tom Cruise is actually being kept alive with alien blood for our entertainment.

No, actually, I gotta say it is a very interesting theory, and I'm frightened of you saying it on this podcast in fear that scientologists will come and get us because you figured it out.

I know, even though I feel like their operation has seemed to have slowed down in the past few years.

But the buildings they own, yes, alone, if you are ever in LA and you go buy any of these Scientology buildings, they're like castle mansions in the middle of the city.

It's really weird.

Yeah, But I feel like because there was so much I mean, they were like impenetrable for a long time.

Like I remember when you know, maybe fifteen years ago, when I would come to La, people like, don't say shit about scientologists because they will come and they will ruin your life.

I feel like after the Lea Remedy Show and just about the modern era, the Internet era that took over, it's like they kind of lost their sting a little bit.

O Joe.

They're staying a little bit.

I mean, I don't know, don't know.

I hear it, don't don't pick it me.

I don't want to get I might have a new I might have a new co host next next week, and I might be audited.

Shit.

I want to say, for the record, I think we all love that.

You love the mission of Possible movies because somebody has to.

And you're like our man on the inside because I won't see him, but I like that you like him.

I love them And I watched them all again in preparation for this one, and I just really had a fun There you go, We're good any who.

On the exact opposite end of the spectrum, I watched an Australian Front film from twenty twenty two called Monolith And guess what, Millie.

This is a podcast movie.

It is a podcast horror movie.

It is all takes place in one room with this woman making a kind of paranormal conspiracy podcast.

She's like a disgraced journalist who is launching a new podcast and she's investigating these mysterious black bricks that show up at people's houses.

And it was scary.

Wow.

I thought it was good.

Okay, okay, And you know, it's one of those movies where it like kind of it's one all you see is one woman, the whole you.

She talks to a lot of people for her podcast.

But it was very effective and it did didn't feel like claustrophobic or like it didn't feel like it was relying on any sort of gimmick.

Sure, you know.

So it's called Monolith, okay.

And it was creepy and interesting and I was it was a great just great podcaster representation in film.

So there we go.

Hey, that's great.

I uh, I kind of want to watch this.

This looks good.

Yeah, it was good, really liked it.

And then the last movie I watched was nineteen ninety eight's Zero Effect with Bill Pullman and Ben Stiller.

Have you ever seen this movie?

No?

And I kept I kept reading about it when it came out, and I thought I should, uh, and then I never got around to it.

It's cute, it's fine, and Bill Pullman plays like the most private I the most private detective.

He uh he yeah.

It's it's kind of a funny, quirky, little gum shoe type movie and it takes place in Portland, and Ryan O'Neil's in it, and it's kind of funny seeing Ben Stiller in a role like at this time where he's not like completely going crazy and he's not shirtless in it, not once and but yeah it was fine.

Hey, we like it.

What he does is dramatic when Permanent Midnight, like when Ben's.

Still never seen Permanent Midnight.

But that's on my list.

You'll love it.

If you like a serious Ben Stiller, you'll love it.

Sure I do.

Yeah, when he goes a little serious, little.

Dark, Yeah, but this was I mean, ero effect is funny, it's charming.

I've never seen Bill Pullman in like such a light role or like a funny, silly role like that, maybe Sleepless in Seattle.

But well, he was in he was in singles, the Jersey movie singles.

You know what, I've never seen something?

How do I how do I even know?

You that?

It's like a formative.

Text for my Jenny, But do you know it's one of those things where it's like singles, like in retrospect, it's like it sort of feels like it's like the mainstreamification of grunge or something.

I don't know.

Yeah, so I haven't really been sought that one out.

If you want to.

If you if you're calling me a poser because I liked singles, you can't.

You can't.

Even though Chris Cornell was in the fucking movie.

And you know the spoon man, Yeah, most famous.

There's a lot Eddie Vedder and Jeff Allman from Pearl Jammer in the movie.

It has like good bones, like in terms of I mean Karen Crowe, you know, the people in it, like Hampbell, Scott Cara Sedgwick, like you know, yes, it is somewhat of a commercial spotlight on this very based you know, like serious musical genre that hates posers very strongly.

But it could be worse.

It could be Empire Records, is all I have.

Yes, it could be worse.

Yes, it could be Empire.

The movie I don't like.

I don't like that movie.

But he's but anyway, there's your point.

Bill Pullman is in that movie.

Briefly he does.

He has a cameo and he plays this like plastic surgeon that's about to give Bridget Fonda a breast augmentation.

And it's great.

He's great in it.

He's so Bill Pullman.

He's always kind of doing this.

Ya.

He's like he's always kind of doing that sort of stuff.

Yeah, now you gotta watch Sigles because that's like his entire He's he's got like ten lines and they're all like that.

Okay, Milly, we gotta move on.

We got so much show left and we we gotta keep moving here.

So let's close it up.

Closed, It's time for our main discussion.

All right, all right, all right, she said, fine, Showgirls nineteen ninety five, Showgirls, Where do we begin with a monumental text like this?

What was the what was the first time you saw this movie?

Just like curiosity, Well, the first time I saw this movie was on TV.

And this is a very famous TV edit because it was on VH one in like the two thousands and maybe the late nineties, which is crazy to think about because there's so much I mean, there's almost no scenes in this movie where everyone's not naked, you know.

And so what they did is they like had this like painted on Have you seen the TV edit?

Of course?

Okay, So they have this like digital painted on bra basically in every scene to like cover up any nudity whatsoever.

And I think some scenes were cut entirely, Like I have a feeling the pool scene may have been cut entirely from the TV edit or part most of it was yah, but it had this like ludicrous digital bra floating around the TV screen.

And that was how I first watched this movie.

Yeah, yeah, I My first time was also on TV.

However, it was on like HBO or Showtime or something, and it was at I watched it at my friend Liz Morris's house, but who was one of my best friends in high school.

She is no longer with us, rip Liz, but we for some reason, I swear did she It was this thing where like it was on TV.

It was in the middle of the day.

Her mother's house was like super countrified, so like she had like a bluebell pattern couch and it was there was like fucking like.

You were painting such a beautiful I know.

There was like watching show go Oh.

My god, it was like watching this movie.

I was like in a cracker barrel liesque living room in the Deep South during the day and then show Girls comes on and my friend Liz, I feel like she went and did like she was like doing laundry or this was at her parents' house and I sat there and watched Showgirls alone in this country house, and it was unedited and it was riveting.

Like I was riveted.

And it was like I was like ninety because this movie came out ninety five, so it was probably like ninety six when this movie it was on base or pay cable, so I would have been I was like seventeen or something.

Yea, And.

I, I mean I was riveted.

I don't know about you.

How did you feel when you first saw it?

Well, I feel like so this movie.

Watching it again last night, I was like, this movie looks incredible.

Like the way it was shot.

The cinematography I think is beautiful, Yeah, and it sort of commands your attention, like it feels it makes you like it brings you to a place where you're like, this is cinema, this is important.

Yeah.

And so I felt like with that kind of visualization of the movie with so much nudity and like graphic nudity, and like Elizabeth Berkley is so naked in this movie.

My god, you really don't see movies like this where the main character is like so naked in the whole movie.

And so it really those two worlds coming together of like this looking so good and it also having like graphic nudity.

It really just kind of like makes your mind short circuit while you're watching it.

So that was sort of my experience, like watching it for the first time.

I think that's kind of that's exactly how I felt.

I felt short circuited by it.

It was just such a spectacle.

Let me ask you this question, Yeah, did you have any affiliation with the children's television show Saved by the Bell.

I watched Save by the Bell all the time.

Okay, I could sing the theme song right now, Okay, but I won't you.

But I could just imagine me doing it.

Okay, when I wake up in the morning and my lamas anna Ona, and I think I never make it on time by the time I give my books and I give myself a look, i'mendacona just in time to say the book job bye.

It's all right because I said by lah blah uh.

I don't I see.

I don't even really remember being like, oh my god, that's Jesse, yes, you know.

And Showgirls, yes, it was.

I think Showgirls as like an idea was so I don't remember being introduced to that concept that they like someone from save by the Bell was in this movie.

Yes see that?

Okay, so full disclosure, you know, as I was like going back and rewatching this movie, going back and watching special features on the expanded Blu ray disc, going through all of the you know, writing and ephemeroa and everything about this movie I watched.

I rewatched this documentary that was made and actually twenty nineteen.

I actually can't believe it was that long ago by the director Jeffrey McHale and it's called you Don't Know Me n Omi.

No mim alone is the main character played by Elizabeth Berkley correct, And.

It was basically, to me, one of the best examinations of this film that has ever been done.

Like it basically was like a bunch of film critics and cultural critics and scholars coming together to talk about this movie essentially and all of the different nuances of it that takes the way that it was presented when it first arrived here in our brains, and then the kind of lasting effect and the different reads, I mean, the different readings of it from queer audiences or you know, female audiences or whatever.

It's really interesting.

I really ask that you all watch it if you haven't and you want to.

But the thing that was so interesting was that the very beginning of it sets up the fervor of everything.

When this movie came out, like I mean, it was just like clip upon clip of like people, you know, it was like Cisco and Eebird and you know all of these people that were just like shitting on it like so hard, and all of the bad reviews and all of the like you know, people on Good Warnic America talking about how it's the worst movie of all time, the Razzie Awards, and then it was like really talking about Say By the Bell and how everybody was so scandalized that she had been on Say by the Bell and was Jesse Spano.

And it is an ironic because Jesse Spedo was like this feminist and now she's this, this and that.

And I have to say, like, as a person who watched Stay by the Bell as a child and was very well acquainted with Jesse Spano as a character, I'm with you.

It wasn't like this whole like I cannot fucking believe like what happened, Like she's obviously made a pack with the devil or something like she like I guess and for me, I had become so used to these like these stories of like I mean, if you watch movies, if you're a movie fan, it's like, this isn't the first time that a child actor has gone dark or has done like fucked up shit.

I mean, in the documentary they talk about Patty Duke when she was in Valley of the Dolls and about how like that was so scandalous because everybody loved Patty Duke and then all of a sudden she's like strung out on pills in a movie.

Yeah, you know.

So it's like to me, it wasn't like a shock that it was Jesse Spado quote unquote, that was like, now, Nomi Malone.

I think it was more about just the just the spectacle of the movie, like head to toe.

Yeah, you know what I mean.

Well, it's not just that she's in this movie coming off like a essentially a children's TV show.

Yeah, it's also the movie itself and not just the content of the movie.

But I mean, we can get into this now or we can get into it later.

But like her movement, her acting and her movements in the movie are so unusual.

I don't even know that's the right term, but they're so dramatic and kind of violent and bizarre.

Like even the way she's like, like the way she's like kind of introduced when she gets to Vegas, she's like throwing her body around this like looking for her suitcase.

She like flings herself into traffic.

She's eating French fries and like throwing the ketchup all over the place.

Like it's like her movements are really broad and big.

There's just a lot going on on top of the fact that it's sort of like wild that she went from like a child's TV show to this type of movie, do you know what I mean?

Yeah, So like wish talk about the acting, yes, because that is a I've been a huge point of discussion over the years.

Is this sort of like extra caffeinated caffeinated.

That's a great way of saying.

Real, real, herky jerky acting style of Elizabeth Berkeley.

Right.

Yes, And when I first saw this movie, I did think it was fucking hilarious, Like I was like, what is.

This She's like a caged animal?

Yes, I mean really, not just in the dancing sequences, but just as a person out in the world.

Yeah, and part of me like I've gone back and forth about this for many years because I was like, is that her?

Or is that something else?

Isn't?

Is that?

Can I read you a quote?

Yes?

Please?

That shed's light on this.

So Paul Verhoven was interviewed this year in far Out magazine and he said about the movie, it made my life more difficult, but not to the degree it did Elizabeth's.

Hollywood turned their backs on her.

If somebody has to be blamed, it should be me, because I thought that it was interesting to portray somebody like that.

I asked Elizabeth to do all that, to be abrupt and to act in that way, but people have been attacking her about it ever since.

I had hoped the end of the movie would explain why she acted that way when it was revealed she has convictions linked with drugs, but that too turned out to be a big mistake.

So Paul Verhoven is the one who's like, I want is pushing her to do this, and it's his vision.

And I feel like she was the one who got blamed for this kind of caffeinated style of acting.

Of course, and of course that that would happen, right because nobody had seen her really beyond say, by the Bell and like if we go back, she wasn't like that, I'd say, by the Bell, I mean she had the whole like speaking of Captainy, she's so excited, I'm so excited scared.

Yes, yes, and that had had its own she was already an icon for that in that way.

But to me, you know, there wasn't any suggestion that this was like her you know, standard operating procedure as an actress, that she was going to be this nutty you know.

I figured it was probably informed by yeah, the direction of the director, but also the character in that.

Now listen, I want to go on record and say this, like there there's an opportunity here to be like super duper, you know, like using my film master master's degree to you know, really pick apart the like delicate nuances and psychology of a character or a film.

Okay, I love doing that a little bit, but I don't want to like also pretend that this movie is like baal Wolf.

Or something that have to like, you know, you can't look at it and be like, actually, it's not ridiculous at all, right, because it is very ridiculous.

And that's exactly and that's the pleasure of the movie is that it's ridiculous, But then there's also times when you can see it in a more serious way and have like an actual take, and it's not this like Mystery Science Theater three thousand take.

It's like that you know something that you actually enjoy and think is good.

And I do think that, like there's pleasure in her acting like that for me, and I think Verhoven obviously would know the best.

He's right.

I think once you understand her character herc she is like a feral animal.

She is like skittish, and because she has had so much trauma, she's like living on her own, like like trying to, you know, make her her way in this extremely seedy business.

And she's had drug problems, she's had she was at the one point a sex worker.

She had been sexually abused and everything.

So it's like, do you blame her for being this way?

No, I mean her the character is supposed to be fragile and mistrusting and skittish and mysterious, and I think that's exactly what she did in the movie.

I think also like I don't I don't think it.

I don't think like Paul, But it's not one of those things where it's like, shame on you, Paul Verhoven for trying to do something like that.

I think he had a good idea and an interesting idea, And I think a lot of times, especially American viewers, have one single concept of how good acting is supposed to be or how acting is supposed to be, and especially today in like modern cinema, it's like everything needs to be so grounded and muted.

If the more grounded, the more muted, the more real, and therefore the more good it is.

But I feel like there is a place in movies, and you see it in a lot of David Lynch movies too, where like heightened theatrical, over the top acting is also good acting, right, It is good performance.

It's like a tool in the toolbox of movie making to have somebody perform in a certain way that creates a certain emotion.

And her performance in this creates a certain feel.

You're like, she is out of control, and this makes me feel a certain way, and so I like the acting in this.

I think it's like a good artistic you know, leap to make in this movie, and.

Sometimes it works, and sometimes the character in the storyline warrants it, And I feel like, if you're doing a movie about Vegas, if you're doing a movie about like nude, you know, Vegas Showgirls, then yeah, you gotta get a little Kochi with the acting.

Yes, so come on.

Well, and I think she gets blamed for weird script dialogue.

Yeah, Like some of that dialogue if you read it on page you'd be like, what the fuck is this?

Yeah, like this has to be part of the issue.

I mean, Paul Verhoven is Dutch and the screenwriter Joe Esterhouse is Hungarian.

There does seem to be something lost a little bit in translation with these With this dialogue, you know.

I was wondering.

We've talked a lot about this movie already, but I was like, in the event that somebody has never seen Showgirls, Yes, would you do?

Should I do a synopter?

Okay?

So our main character Nomi Malone played by Elizabeth Berkeley.

She is a troubled but talented drifter who comes to Vegas with dreams of becoming a showgirl.

She works as an exotic dancer for a time, but she soon catches the eye of Crystal Connors played by Gina Gershan, who is the lead show girl in the big production goddess know Me auditions and gets a part in the show.

But Nomi has eyes for the top spot that Crystal holds, and she'll do whatever it takes to get it.

And that does include wildly fucking Kyle McLaughlin in a pool with a water feature.

So on top of all that, she must also navigate these psychosexual games that Crystal Connors is playing and attempted sex trafficking gone wrong by show management and out running her troubled past.

So there's a lot happening all at once.

A lot of meat on that bone.

A lot of meat on that bone.

Okay, God bless, I knew this was gonna be a big undertaking.

I actually told you.

I was really nervous.

I was like, oh my god, am I going to be able to communicate all of the feelings that I've had.

Millie held her hand up to the camera, shake it.

I'd like, hold it stead even the other hand.

Yeah, this movie is thirty years old, and isn't that isn't that wild?

Wild?

It feels just as relevant today.

When you see it as a young person, you're like, whoa, there's a lot of sex and like, like, truly the most nudity BPM in like a major release.

Yeah, maybe ever Yeah, you know, and then it's also like goofy acting and you're kind of holding onto those two things.

And then as you get older, you're like, there's actually a lot more here.

Yeah, and I you know, it looks great.

They look great, Like Elizabeth Berkeley and Gina Gershan look amazing naked.

Sorry, they just do.

And they they're beautiful, and everybody in the film is beautiful and they do the way that they move and the dancing especially is all just like to me, it's a very titillating, like I'm like, I yeah, that's mission accomplished.

That's what they did.

And you know, there is ridiculousness in the film, and there is camp in this film obviously just huge amounts.

But at the same time it's a sexy movie.

It's actually a sexy movie to me.

Well, like Gina Gersh Sean and Elizabeth Berkeley when they come out as the Goddess, You're like, oh my, like they're beautiful, They're they're beautiful.

I was like, I mean, Lissa, we talked about the thrusted part.

Sorry, if I could, if I had the opportunity to have that little snatched, tiny waist covered in sweat, you know, in those like little hot pants that she's wearing in that scene, And I'm like, damn, I would love that for myself.

Can I get into maybe some like more granular plot things?

Of course, who is Crystal Connor's like, what's someone we could compare her to in the real world because in the world of this movie, this movie also kind of like purports that, like Vegas is more of a center of entertainment than I think it is now sure, or maybe ever was, because in the movie, she's kind of like, they're like, who can replace her with Janet Jackson Paul abdul And I'm like, is she as famous as those people in the world of this movie?

You know, it's kind of hard, but she feels like she is.

Yeah, I mean that I think that's a little it's a little magical thinking that you have to do is to just imagine that Crystal Connors is like Paul abdol or like, yes, I will say I think that Vegas was extremely important for a very very long time.

I mean, I don't know, did you watch the last show Girl with your girl Pam Anderson?

You gotta watch that what the hell is wrong with you?

I mean, I know, it's a tradition, it's an industry, and like you know, I people take it very seriously and I feel like it, but it does seem a little old school now.

I mean you still have people like Bruno Mars and fucking like you know, you have the Blue Man Group, and like there's still people are making, you know, Vegas Residency entertainment and are like people will go and see like people will people went to see the Magic Mic shows and like, yeah, people love it when like I don't know, Christina Aguilera has a Vegas residency.

I mean it's like it still makes a shit ton of money, So there is something.

It does have a foothold.

I just don't think in the modern era.

I feel if it certainly wasn't like Ocean's eleven, you know what I mean, It's a different universe.

It just I feel like that's one thing where I was like having kind of not a hard time grasping, but I'm kind of like it's kind of purporting that like this is sort of the center of entertainment in the USA A little bit.

Yes, there's a little bit of that.

Yes, I mean I here's the thing.

I if you watch the You Don't Know Me documentary, and I think this has been written about before, Apparently Gina Grishawan based the character of Crystal Connors on drag queens, like she was basically acting like a drag queen.

I see that.

I do too, And so there is this like over the top campness to her performance.

And I mean she's supposed to be from Texas.

I love that part.

That part, the whole like Texas part with her like cowboy hats and calling her Darlin and stuff to me just really really sets it up for me.

I'm like, I'm I'm personally big fan of Crystal Connors, big fan.

H you know.

I This is the part that I feel like, as much as people feel like it's the camp part, I actually think it's the anchor of the film.

Is her relationship with Crystal because it kind of centers the movie.

Yes, in this like grand tradition of Hollywood tales like All About Eve or you know, like Valley of the Dolls or anything.

This is what makes this movie an actual movie in my mind, is the rapport between Crystal and Know Me and how it's this adversarial thing but then there's like kind of like a genuine romance.

Actually not kind of, there's a romance.

I mean, whether or not they're actually in a lesbian relationship or whatever, but there's still a romance there.

And it's Yes, it's it's the tale of you know, the old school star being usurped by the new Jack, the new person in town.

And I don't know if it's because I'm older now and I'm seeing people coming down the staircase, if you.

Know what I'm saying, Like being as old as i'm, you're behind You're in front of them, and they're behind you on the staircase.

You maybe it's you.

You're mine, behind you on the staircase, look out for the little beads on the floor.

Really, yeah, you're the one pushing me down and then coming to visit me in the fucking hospital being like, can I do your hanils?

What happened?

She just slipped?

Yeah?

I don't know.

Yeah, but it is kind of interesting that I almost feel like just comparing this to a movie like All About Eve, Like you said, you almost are more sympathetic to know me I'm alone in show Girls, then you are Eve Harrington in All About yeah.

No, we all hate Eve Harrington.

She sucks, yes, But I do like the kiss at the end where Crystal is like, how about a I don't know what she says, She's like, how about a kiss for mama or something like that.

By the way, I was like, I was like kind of touched by how affectionate and sweet.

That kiss at the end.

I mean, it's hot too, but it's also like you're like, wow, these women really understand each other.

I'm sure you know, really.

They're really connecting on a spiritual level.

No, no, it's it to me is it was almost like the whole game recognized game like confirmation rapped and I like, thank you for.

Hurting me, thank you for breaking my knee, thank.

You for poisoning me with an omelet.

It's like moments that famom thread moment of like I'm cool with this, Like I'm cool with what happened, and you got what you wanted and I kind of got what I wanted, and now we're just better people for it.

You know what I mean.

And it's hot.

I mean it's hot, come on.

It's hot, but come on, grow up.

Can I ask you a question?

Have you please?

So there's like the whole scene of them at Spago talking about the dog food puppet chat.

I was gonna ask you, have you eaten dog food?

I've never eaten dogs.

Well, no, it smells awful.

Well, you know, and I gotta tell you again.

Sorry, I'm going down this rabbit hole of analyzes.

People like to make fun of that saying because they're like, that seems so stupid.

They're all just they're like looking at each other's nails and they're talking about eating dog food.

What the fuck is this about?

And I'm like, I don't know.

I think it's a way for them to kind of tell each other that we kind of have the same background.

Likely theme is like I ate dog food because I was poor and fucked up and had to Crystal Connors is like I ate dog food because I was poor and fucked up and had to looks like we're not so different after all, even though my nails are better than yours.

Well, I'm like also too, Like the documentary points out, like one of the film scholars that is in the documentary and I can't remember who it is, talks about how in that scene, the scenario, the visual the scene, the visual component of it flips and it breaks the one eighty rule where yeah, where basically at some point halfway through the Jeena Gershan character, the Crystal Connors is flipped so she's on the other side, and how maybe that was by design, Like about how now it's almost like they went through the looking glass kind of thing where it was like, oh, well now we are the same, like we are through a portal where you can be me, you know, And I'm like, yo, this movie is deep.

Fuck what you said about it's Ciskel and Ebert.

It's deep.

Uh.

For those who don't know the one eighty rule, that's like a rule of filming a scene that you need to follow so you won't be confused about the like geometry of where everybody is standing.

So basically you can't just be like flip flopping the camera all over the place.

You have to like stay on one side of the actors so that you kind of know what's going on.

That's essentially what it is.

Absolutely, thank you Casey for the scripture that we needed to get through this episode.

I what else can you say about this movie, because I mean, I personally I want to talk about it in terms a big, a cult movie obviously, because that's my bread and butter, if you will.

Yeah, I actually think this is one of the last great cult movies ever made.

Yeah.

Well, I think inherently a cult movie needs to not be successful.

Yes, would you say that's upon it's a written initial release, I would agree, And this was not successful on its release, but I will note that since its video release, Showgirls has gone on to become one of MGM's top twenty all time bestsellers.

Yeah.

I totally so that that is where the cult grew.

Yeah.

I mean I think, like I've been asked to to find a cult movie a hundred million times in my life, and I don't really know what else to say other than it does feel like.

Cult.

An actual, treed and true cult movie is on some level misunder stood upon its initiative, but then it is reappraised and re examined after.

So there has to be a period of time, there's to be a foulo period.

Has to be a foul period where people, upon further examination are like, oh, this is whatever, it is like a masterpiece, This is like a flawed masterpiece.

But they know.

To me, there's no denying that it's that it's a cult movie simply because it's like, what failed seriousness.

That's what camp really is kind of about, like a Susan Sontag definition of it.

It's being like, it's a serious film.

It took a big swing but then missed right.

And that's kind of inherently what cult movies are too.

It's people that take big swings and try to do things in all earnestness and seriousness, but then just like it, it's too funny, it's too over the time, it's too unbelievable, like whatever it is.

Yeah, and it can't really be appreciated at face value.

I can see why that happened when it first released anyway, Yeah, like it takes time for that to simmer in.

Yeh, come to a boy.

Yeah, but I do think it's one of the very last of the great cult exploitation movies.

I mean now, I was actually like looking this up.

I was like, I just typed into Google, what are some great cult movies of the two thousands of the twenty first century?

Maybe we should make that list, And a lot of the stuff that was coming up was not something I was really vibing with.

I feel like the twenty first century is sort of marked with like kind of a wink at the camera, like it never like everything kind of has like a sense of comedy to it, or like they don't want to be taken there.

It's kind of like the Jim Helper effect of kind of lying, isn't this crazy?

Yeah?

You know, there's kind of an awareness because people don't want to do things that are too sincere lest they be mocked, you know.

And that's why Showgirls is great, because it's like so intensely serious but just ridiculous.

You know, people are too are afraid to take that big of a swing.

I also think the exploitation element to it as well, being that it's just so there is a lot of salaciousness to the movie, a lot of crazy lines, a lot of crazy little stories tucked in, you know, just like the weird isms of it is.

It feels very exploitation tradition to me.

Yes, I mean, which I love.

I don't know if we've quite touched upon this, but like one thing I don't even it doesn't even really have a term, but her like flailing fish sex move.

Do you know what I'm talking about?

Do I?

She does it twice, she does it in the lap dance and in the pool sex Toronto or whatever, in the grotto, in the water feature, and it is such an outrageous it's like so not sexy and it's so aggressive and wild, and I think that plays a part in its campiness, you know, like it's not trying to be sexy, it's just trying to be wild and outrageous, but in a serious way, you know.

Yeah.

I mean I think in that moment, perhaps know me, Malone was like, let me show off what I can really do.

Let me just show this guy just how wild that I can be, that I can perform for him, and he'll never forget me for this, right, Like he'll never I'm not I'm likely the first woman that flopped like fish yeah, on top of him, on top of him.

You think anybody's doing that for him?

Maybe not.

That's her signature move.

That's my signature move, and I'll do it as many times as I can to prove that point.

I mean, that's why.

Yeah, it's very over the top, like there is.

It does feel like it intentionally, like she's intentionally trying to both the character and the actress is essentially trying to call attention to this scenario.

But yeah, I mean, I personally think that there is a lot of these moments that are tucked in that feel like old school like Down the Line exploitation stuff, which is exciting to me as an exploitation fan.

I mean, and I keep thinking, like, okay, ninety five, you know, we're kind of moving into the late nineties and early two thousands, and yeah, I think the movies started getting way more self aware, and marketing specifically got way more self aware to where, you know, a lot of like companies were kind of hoping that if like a director made a movie that maybe wasn't gonna be like a Down the Line hit, and maybe they could try to market it as a Colt movie.

Like that started happening, and then they started making trying to reverse engineer Colt movies, which is impossible to me because that's kind of what they were doing with Napoleon Dynamite.

To be completely honest with you, I remember like the marketing for that movie being very gear towards like isn't this movie like so fucking weird?

Guys?

Like I was in college when that movie came out, and every they were trying to market it as It's like fucking stoner, weird college movie.

And I'm just like, that's crazy, Like normally you just showed up to a stoner college movie like eraser Head, Like it wasn't like anybody was marketing it to me as a stoner movie, you know what I'm saying.

So it's like I feel like the as the decade moves on late and these or three thousands, like the whole idea of a cult movie starts getting a little bit co opted by the industry, and I just feel like it's rare to see these kind of old school exploitation films where it's so over the top, truly a cult movie, like truly people hated it, like people.

That's the one thing that documentary does really well is tell to telling you that America was not vibing with showgirls at all, and that cult had to come from that, it had to come from the idea that people didn't know what the fuck it was.

So yeah, I mean, it does feel like it's from an older era in a way, like yeah, that that like it is like the last of sort of a tradition, like you said, yeah.

Well, and I don't know, I mean, I don't know what else, Like my question to you, do you think this movie is still like super controversial, Like I don't know what is take on, like how this movie has aged over thirty years.

I think watching it again, I've seen this movie probably I would say four times in the last three years, so I feel like I've seen it a lot recently.

Yeah, and even again when I watched it last night, I was sort of shocked by how graphic the nudity was.

Like some of the things that Elizabeth Berkeley does in this movie are still rather shocking, I felt watching it this time.

So I think in that way, you just don't see a major movie like that with that much nudity and sex and sex scenes.

And I think movies are getting more and more chaste as the years go on, so I think it came into kind of stark contrast to how movies are coming out now.

Certainly there's nudities still.

You still see actors and actresses naked in movies, but it's not like it was.

And so I think that, I mean, I know that's like such a simple boneheaded answer, but that is honestly what I felt watching it.

Yeah, I don't think you actually see nudity in such a high wattage kind of way.

Anymore, I feel like nudity feels a lot more natural, and I feel like that's just because there's actually probably i don't know, maybe BEA's permit.

It feels like there might be more acceptance of nudity, certainly like male Frontel, which totally.

I mean, I've talked about this about the Righteous Gemstones that show the Righteous Gemstones.

I was like, listen, this is the Dongaissance is upon us.

Obviously, I was gonna say just that you and Danielle Christen of the Donaissance, we are in it.

I'm a big fan.

I love it.

It's a new era.

But it almost feels like the nudity that appears these days feels a lot more inherent to the scene.

It's like a little slip, it's it's you know, maybe this.

Is hyper sexualized nudity totally.

Like all the lights, you know, all of the self tanner, you know, everyone's completely shaved, like just the whole Like it's like a very very high watt sexuality, which I feel like that to me, the kind of maybe like them taking some things from like the porn industry type of sexuality or nudity.

I feel like that's not You don't see much of that as much anymore, for sure, and so to that point, show roles is pretty shocking.

Still, I would say, I'm with you.

Yeah, I don't know.

This is it's an interesting film obviously if you've never seen I've seen it.

I don't even know what to tell you.

I don't know.

Yeah, maybe as we wrap up this combo, do you have any favorite quotes from the movie.

I mean, god, damn, dude, I want to.

I'm sorry, just hold on.

Let me pull out my notes app and where I keep all my favorite quotes from Showgirls.

I mean, this movie is sleazy as fuck, by the way, I mean, this is like part of the joy of it.

Speaking of this sleaziness, one of my favorite quotes that I always think about is when Nomi is auditioning and the manager guy I don't know who that is, he's going up to the girls and asking him on questions and stuff, and he goes up to this one dancer and he's like, you've probably taken a lot of classes, and she's like, that's right, I've taken ballet, I've been in this conservatory and he's like, okay, well, the show is called goddess.

It's not called classes.

I was like, what what the like, well, how do you know she's not good?

I was like, is that bad that you took class?

I don't know.

That was just that's such a funny moment.

It's not called closses.

I I mean, honestly, there's so many like dirty lines in this I mean, it's just it's really really dirty.

I mean my favorite ones are quite honestly, the backstage, the girls backstage, like what do you look at bitch?

Just like the dumb caddie backstage, you know, Fandango of the girls who are like, you know, fighting with each other and being mean to each other.

I don't know, it's just so it's just so much in this film.

Listen what we have.

There's so many things maybe we should do.

I don't know, we gotta do like some kind of bonus video or something like that for our Maybe we can do another Instagram live and do like a little you know, like a spillover of uh, you know, topics about show Girls that we can just like do because I have so many that we haven't even talked really about Paul Verhoven's career.

I mean, we can talk about Colin McLaughlin.

I mean, I know that he had like a like crazy experience when it came out, you know, so I don't know, it's just just too much for.

This, there's too much.

Let's do a fit, Let's do an Instagram live and we can touch upon some of these other things.

A part two of Showgirls.

I'd be into it.

Thank you Millie for guiding us being our Crystal Connor's lead goddess on this conversation.

Well, you're welcome, darling.

So I'm very excited to introduce our guests for this week's my area of expertise because I worked with this lovely woman for a very long time at Turner Classic Movie Is where I was, you know, for a programmer for I don't know, almost like twenty years or something.

But we got to collaborate on a franchise called Tsium Imports, which was our kind of uh, you know, foreign film showcase.

It came on kind of late at nights, so it was really fun because we got to program a lot of like risque things.

I am very proud to have worked alongside her because I was always is such a champion for her being a host of the network.

And being a female authority of film, especially classic film, and she's so sweet and lovely and I want to introduce her.

So this is Alicia Malone.

Everybody, yay hi, and I have my catworth with me, so be hearing cat purs just a bit of ASMR for you.

She loves and a podcast.

Have you put her on TikTok or anything yet?

Are you?

Are you?

I'm not on any social media.

I'm a weird at a dream.

Yeah.

I got offered in twenty twenty and honestly best thing I did personally.

I know people love it and have used it in the right way, but it really helped me to no end.

That's why you look so calm and serene and youthful.

I swear like you have a glow about you.

And it's because you have no social media.

That is amazing, That's right.

And I barely go on the internet either.

So yeah, oh god, I'm in a bubble.

You live in a dream of mine.

So I wanted to, you know, I wanted to kind of start out by asking you because again you've probably answered these questions a million times, because I feel like people, you know, people that watch TCM love you.

You're one of the hosts on TCM, and you've been so for a long time.

I mean you started with film Struck back in the day, right, it's not that kind of how you came into the channel.

That's how I came into the TCM.

Well, yeah, that was twenty sixteen, rip filmstrect Those were the good old days, were they?

I had the best time those two years we worked on Film Struck.

It was a dream.

It was an absolute dream.

Like it's so funny because I feel like I sound like one of these people that can like not forget their high school experience or something around, like, those were the amazing days.

I'll never get over it, even though it didn't last, like I guess technically that long, but it was so fun to work on, like from a programming perspective, but also I know that so many people like yourself and like people who were producing pieces for it were getting to do like their best work.

It was kind of just like unfettered creativity, right, it really was.

I mean, where do you get to do these super niche videos unless you work for Criterion.

But getting to work with Criterion, I mean I got to do a closet video and those things now they have Beneffleck on them.

I would never get to do one now, but I got to go in there and do a closet video back in twenty sixteen or something.

It was a dream.

It feels like a dream.

And then I always wanted to work on TCM, so finally in twenty eighteen, I did an audition and then I came on board as a host.

Yeah.

Well, and you know, I think you're perfect for the channel because you are really really knowledgeable about films, and I mean I'm going to, you know, ask you some questions about your books and your new book that just came up fairly recently, but I kind of wanted to go backwards and I kind of ask you, obviously you grew up in Australia, like, how how did you come into film?

Was it something that like your family introduced to you.

Were you kind of on your own?

Did?

How did you start liking movies period?

I guess yeah.

I think we all have a gatekeeper or someone that introduces us to movies, and that for me was my dad, who is still a big film buff.

And I have memories of him, you know, I've talked about this, but of him dragging me out of bed late at night to watch Rear Window when I was way too young to watch Real Window because he wanted to introduce me to Alfred Hitchcock.

And also growing up in.

Australia, I feel like we had a whole mix of content on television and in our movie theaters.

It wasn't just Hollywood films, a lot of content from the UK, British films, which is why I maintained that Australian actors are so good at doing both British accents and American accents because we grow up surrounded by hearing them on television and movies, and at the theaters were full of foreign films.

So growing up in Australia.

Didn't have that distinction between this is a Hollywood film and this is a foreign film in the way I think we do here in America.

It was all foreign to me living so far away in Australia.

So really just getting introduced to films as a young kid with my dad.

My sisters love classic films as well.

Didn't realize that I was weird in that respect until I go to our sleepover parties and everyone wanted to watch night Mare on Elm Street and I wanted to watch like The Big Sleep or something.

People thought I was very strange, and one story I tell is in high school, I was outraged that people hadn't seen many of the classic films that I loved.

So I decided that I would start a film club where I would show screenings and movies and I would give little introductions.

Funny that I do that now made posters.

I booked the screening room.

I had to convince one teacher to stay late in order to show the films.

I got up in assembly, even though I was deathly afraid of public speaking, to tell everyone about you should come to my film club.

Made myself a little badge.

It said film club president.

I wore it on my school uniform and not a single person came.

And I had two screenings and then they said, yeah, sure, you need to stop the film club.

No one's coming, And I mean, yes, I didn't program it properly.

I showed Citizen Kane.

No one wanted to see in gay.

Shame, shame or shame, but funny that I've ended up doing the exact thing now and now people now people come to the screenings.

Oh my god.

I just felt like a core wound enter my body.

God, God, I really felt that the way you set that story up, it really felt like it was going in a dark direction, and I was afraid for young Alicia there.

But oh my gosh, Alicia, do you want to explain what your area of expertise is?

Yeah?

When I heard about that my area of expertise, I felt I could go several directions.

Yeah, I've written books about female directors.

I have that new book about foreign films.

I could talk about classic films.

When people think about my film when I think about my film knowledge, I say I know more than most, but less than some.

So I'm not an excyclopedia.

But I definitely watched a broad range of films throughout my life.

And one thing that I thought of immediately, which I wouldn't necessarily call myself an expert on, but more just it's my personal pet peeve, and that is empty cups in movies.

Empty coffee cups.

It kills me.

Now, specifically, do you think is it more egregious in a coffee mug or a takeaway coffee cup or both?

Is it equally equally?

I mean, I think the takeaway coffee cup with the lid allows the actor to feel like they can flail their arms around a little bit more, which makes it very unrealistic.

But also it is painful when you can see into the coffee mug that someone's holding and you can see that it's empty.

And it's just something I don't understand.

Why why does it happen?

And it happens the highest of the highest caliber films.

I said this in an email to you, But I just saw the brutalist Guy Pearce is waving around a little coffee cup Willie Nelly not drinking and fake drinking from it.

It's just incredible.

Yeah, fake drinking.

He can tell the fake drinking.

Yeah, so that was kind of my I guess my second question then for you is have you seen are there actors that do fake drinking better than others or it is just like a uniform, y'all suck like it's never gonna look good.

I have never seen, or yet to see an actor do a perfect fake sip.

I don't know why it's so hard to do a sip and a swallow.

But even like you're saying, Guy piace Oscar nominee brilliant Australian actor, cannot do a proper sip that is realistic, and it's just, I think especially maddening because you think, why can't there be some liquid?

Like why is there not coca cola?

If you don't want to drink coffee?

Why is there not least water in a takeaway coffee cup?

Can we give some weight to the cup.

It's interesting because I've heard a lot of actors when they're talking, like doing a fit, like they're talking into a phone.

You know, it'd be very easy to just fake that, but I know a lot of actors ask for someone to actually call the other line so that it looks more realistic.

And this feels like an even smaller lift to just put some actual liquid in a coffee exactly?

Are there any Are there any actors or performances that come to mind where it just really took you out of it when you were watching the movie that that they were fake drink and it's coffee?

Do you think it's mostly coffee?

Nice all liquid or any hot drink?

And it happens a lot in television.

I think that my theory is that's where it began in television to sort of cut corners and to make a production quickly.

I mean when you look up this subject online, which I did a Google thinking I was the only one had this personal pet people of course many people.

There's a whole subredded about it.

And people often talk about Gossip Girl and Friends as being two egregious examples because they have a lot of coffee in those shows, a lot of takeout cups in Gossip Girl, a lot of mugs in Friends.

But when it comes to movies, the thing that I notice the most all the genre, if you will that I noticed it the most, is in the Hallmark Christmas movie.

And those are done quickly and cheaply.

But I love a Hallmark Christmas movie.

I have such a soft spot for it.

I love the predictable beats, I love the low stakes drama.

I love the almost kiss, I love the misconception how are they going to get back together?

At the end, the grand gesture.

For every single Hallmark Christmas movie, they're having some kind of hot liquid and it's usually Christmas related.

There's a Christmas mug, or there is a Christmas hot coco that they get takeout from a little a food truck at a Christmas festival, and it's all very nice and festive until you realize that there is nothing in the cup, and then it just destroys my holiday dreams.

This is the type of thing where once somebody just says it, then you just start noticing it constantly.

And I remember when I when you first when Casey told me that you were coming on a podcast and you're like not drinking out of mugs.

I was like what, And of course I was like doing my own research for them, so goodly.

Okay, So what are my favorite times in a movie where somebody was drinking out of a coffee cup?

I mean, my favorite, well, I actually don't think that he drinks it necessarily.

I mean, I could be completely wrong.

Is Johnny Guitar the movie Johnny Guitar was Sterling Hayden and he has that like tiny little tea cup at the bar and U you know, and I'm always like, he's got He's it's so funny seeing that little dainty tea cup and he's holding it.

I'm like, I bet you there's nothing in that thing.

Yeah.

I do feel like classic films they had more coffee in the cups.

Yes, and maybe it was the pre takeout cup that this all would you know, still change with the takeout cup.

But I see.

Many classic films where they obviously have coffee in the cuffy.

You see it even get poured, and.

Even films from the nineties like your reality bites.

I mean even Twin Peaks on television, definitely coffee in those cuffs and where did it go wrong?

Well, And I was like, to your point, this nineties point.

I actually was thinking about the movie Office Space, and there's that like Gary Cole character, Bill Lumberg is, that's his name, and he's like the boss and he comes over with his coffee and he stands in front of the cubicles and like it's just an asshole of people.

And I was like, because if you watch like the Seat one of the scenes, like if it's clipped out on YouTube, he does a thing where he SIPs and then he kind of swishes his mouth like almost like there is liquid in the cup.

And I'm like, damn, is there liquid in there?

Or is he just a really good actor?

And then I decided to do a like still a shot like I was just gonna pause it, and I studied it like it was the Zuppruder film.

I was like, I oomed in to try to see if there was anything in the mog and there wasn't anything in it, and I was like, he's just got to be a good actor.

Then I can't even an it.

Yeah, that is a good actor.

Yeah, because my theory was that in the nineties they had coffee in the cups, but I'm not entirely so maybe the early two thousands that's when the coffee started going out of the cups and empty cups.

And I'm just so curious about why it happens.

Is it a health and safety thing with hot liquid?

Is it a thing where actors don't want to drink a volume but then they have.

To eat food sometimes in scenes?

Continuity same thing they have to eat food, and continuity is there to make sure there's the same level of food that they started with at the scene.

Why, Yeah, they could use the spit bucket.

Have you ever heard about?

Yes, Like when they do scenes and then they just like spit it out in a bucket because they have to, you know, theoretically do a bunch of different takes and they don't want to eat like that every take, so they can spit out coffee.

That would be good.

Can I potentially bring up real sick yeah, can I bring up a potentially another maybe this is a branch off of this big tree that we're talking about.

What are your feelings on toothbrushing in movies and the toothpaste the lack of toothpaste.

I've seen that much.

Yeah, yes, now you're saying about it.

I do recall sing no toothpaste, and again, why why not just put some toothpaste on there?

I wonder that's a more vanity thing because you look so silly and rabid if you're like, have the toothpaste in your mouth.

But doesn't it take out when you're like somebody?

But a lot of times people will pretend to put it on the brush and then what they don't see the little glog or anything, and then they just putting them out.

They're just like ho ho ho, And I'm like, no, your teeth are not being cleaned.

You're just this is just your own spit.

This is nothing on a brush And I don't feel like you have good dental hygiene now, And you know, it.

Takes me up and you like that character less as the movie proceeds because of their bad dental heart, Like, I'm.

Worried for you now, I know my branch of this big tree is also empty handbags and empty rolla suitcases.

Oh yeah, put.

Something in it.

You can tell when someone's flinging about a handbag that is obviously empty, Yeah, with abandoned.

But they should just put a couple of things in there.

Yeah, they need like to be putting what most people are putting in these jibags and like extra pair of shoes, makeup kit, like two walllets, you know, like do the whole thing a bottle of water, like carry it.

Make it look like you're carrying facts.

When you say someone pick up a roller bag with as you know, there's nothing inside.

Gosh, Now back to the coffee drinking real quick, or do you do you find that you can even you're such an expert that you can even identify masking techniques of the because I noted one I notice a lot is like someone in a hurry doing a sip and I do have a coffee mug just to demonstrate where they'll be like about to drink and they'll be like, hmmm, I forgot like something like you know, it's kind of an interruption to there.

And I feel like that is one of the techniques that I noticed where I'm like, you're not really drinking, You're like interrupting before you get to the drink.

But have you noticed any others there's blowing Oh yeah, that yeah, that's a that's a.

It does seem the tighter that they grip the cup to I feel like they're the less real.

That there's yes, exactly, I've seeing that.

And yeah, a lot of the kind of like almost drink, like you come to the mouse and then you don't, And there's a lot of walking and talking.

When it comes to having takeout coffee cups.

There's a lot of walking and gesturing while you walk, which takes me out of the movie because I know there's nothing in that cup, but they're not even sipping the cup and they just got a delicious cup of coffee.

Take a step.

It seems like they throw the coffee cup a lot like I feel like when it's a takeaway coffee cup, they'll be like, I'm not drinking this and they'll throw it away, and even like the way it falls through the air, I'm like, there's no, there's nothing in there.

It's like floating away.

And people have talked about the sound and an empty takeout coffee cup makes when you put it on a desk versus a takeout coffee cup that has drink in it.

So you'll see in movies and TV.

Shows the harried assistant coming in with the tray, which is another bugger books.

You can see that there's nothing in the tray.

They're balancing two trays of obviously empty cups, and they take out one cup put it down on Emboss's desk and it just makes that hollow sound.

Yes, so you mentioned reality bites.

There is some There is a scene in that movie that drives me absolutely bananas.

To your point, I think you probably know what I'm talking about.

There's a scene where Renonda Ryder and Ben Stiller are out on a date or whatever, and there they're sitting on the back of his whatever it is is convertible, and they're drinking seven eleven slushies or something like that, and they're like the giant like thirty two ounce styrofoam cup with the straw or maybe it's not sterrophone, but it's definitely a takeout cup.

And then at some point they start like kissing, but they have these like cups in their hands, and then like that's part of the joke of the scene is that they're trying to kiss with these cups.

There's nothing in those cups and you can hear it.

It sounds so hollow, and the straw is just kind of like dangling in there with no liquid, and I'm just like, why are they drinking out of empty cups?

Like this is not Now I don't I believe they're on a date.

Matter texting is anything that takes you out of the movie, that would be a simple fix.

It should be fixed, Like even if it sounds ridiculous, it takes me out of the movie, out of the reality, and I annoy all my friends because I lean over like there's nothing in the cup.

And recently I just saw A Nice Indian Boy, which is such a lovely, fun romantic comedy, and Millie, you'll appreciate this.

There's a lot of references to the Bollywood film DDLJ in there.

Great fun.

But there's one really hot, warming scene with a brother and sister talking with mugs and there's nothing in the cup.

But now I don't believe it.

They don't read the relationship, but I believe anything of the film.

Yeah is there?

Well, okay, so if we could try to maybe dissociate from this evil fact, right if we can try to somehow like put it out of our minds that these are all fakers, all these people faking.

Do you have any favorite like coffee seems or coffee actors, like maybe like maybe it's like a Kyle McLaughlin who just drinks a lot of coffee and is really good at it, or like is there somebody that you can think of an actor or just the scene that you love.

Yeah, I was thinking about Kyle McGlaughlin just because that is such a hallmark of that show and of his character to have a nice cup of coffee.

And also, oh, I was thinking about because it's obvious, like coffee and cigarettes, like movies like that.

And I feel like in the.

Nineties especially, there was that kind of to me, that American dina culture of having a cup of coffee, getting it palled straight away as soon as you sit down, and even classic films where they would sit in diners and ask for a cup of coffee and a slice of pie.

But I feel like it was so much a part of the intellectual culture of nineties movies where they would talk very intelligently and eloquently about big topics while having a cup of coffee and a cigarette, And so those coffee and movies to me sort of intertwined with that kind of like very for both back and forth that I wish that I was part of when I.

Was watching these movies as a kid.

Yeah, that's so true.

I mean, I will definitely co sign on the fact that the nineties was all about coffee, coffee houses and being fake beat nick intellectuals writing poetry.

I might I might have dabbled in that a little bit.

I was thinking of So I married an axe murderer, that big lot.

I love that thing.

Yeah, the camera follows it.

I do feel like, oh yeah, no, go ahead loo.

And I was going to say, I think, especially growing up in Australia and Australia, Australians big coffee snobs, and so we are very particular about our coffee and the way it's made, especially espresso type coffees, the flat white, which was I think created in New Zealand, and they drink it a lot in the UK, but in Australia we're very particular about it.

And if you go to Australia, you get excellent coffee.

And even when I was back in Australia in twenty twenty three, I stopped off at a gas station and there was literally a barista operating an espresso coffee machine at the gas station.

That's the thing.

It's Australia.

It's all about the espresso drinks, so that's the coffee of choice.

But growing up watching movies and particularly American movies, the idea of a diner coffee was just so intriguing to me, the idea of the drip coffee, because we didn't really do that in Australia.

You might have instant coffee, but you don't have that kind of drip coffee that comes from the glass, you know.

Jug So I remember going to America and going to a diner and being like, I'm going to order a drip coffee.

Just like they do in America and I mean in the movies, and it was yeah.

Yeah, I had to really change my taste buds to now I like a diner coffee with lots of half and half.

But I had to really train myself to that.

But it was one of those things that I watched in movies so much that I really had an idea about the mood that it would create to order just a just a cup of coffee.

Yeah, yeah, Alicia, It's so funny you say that because I worked I before I got into podcasting, I worked at a fancy, very fancy coffee shop in Venice called Intelligentsia, Yes, and Australians would come in all the time and complain about they drove us nuts.

Because there's a lot of Australians that live in Venice and they are very particular about their coffee.

They'd always order flat whites and they'd complain that we did it wrong, and I just feel like they were It was always like, oh, no, Australians are going to be making I know.

It's so funny you say that.

You go to Starbucks and they say, okay, they have a flat white, what size do you want, and you're like, no, I'm out because.

It comes exactly.

Yeah.

Well, this has been amazing.

I'm so glad that you came and talked to us about this.

I feel like you're blowing people's minds with this information.

I mean honestly, I didn't I didn't even know about it until you agreed to appear.

So sorry, You're you're gonna be annoyed from now on because it is literally every single movie and every single TV show, Like I can't even think of examples because it's every single one.

Yeah.

Sorry, we've ruined movies for all of our listeners.

But that's okay, Yeah, it's the truth.

Well, I wanted to ask you before you take off.

I wanted to talk a little bit about your new book, maybe, like tell people about your prior book, which I know you mentioned is about female directors.

But then the new one is very cool and I feel like I have a personal stake in it.

I just I feel very I feel very emotional about it.

So go ahead, you should do.

I mean, I wrote three books for a smaller publisher about women in film.

The first one, Backwards and the.

Keels, was sort of just an overarching look at the history of women in film and the.

All the various obstacles that they have faced.

Then people asking me about what are your favorite films made by female directors?

So I did a second book called The Female Gaze, which is all about female directors.

And then I did a third book called Girls on Film, which is more personal book about growing up loving movies, well being a woman loving movies and all of the various intricacies that that brings up.

And so after that book, I told everyone that I was done.

I was like, no more books.

It's really hard.

I'm done with writing books.

Yeah, well really it's a tough job.

But I had always harbored a secret desire to have a TCM Live book because they do such a good job, as you know with your book TCM Underground, beautifully constructed, nice photos, a proper editorial team and a beautiful book you can have on your coffee table and TCM fans who are so supportive of all the books.

So when the editor from Running Press Sydney Sapala approached me about writing a book for TCM library, I had to say yes.

And I started to think about what I wanted to write about, and I felt like it was missing the TCM library more books about foreign films.

So I started thinking about, okay, well that's a big topic.

How am I going to write a book on international cinema?

I say, because I include plenty of English speaking films, you know, from Australia and from the UK and from New Zealand.

And I thought maybe I'll write my favorite films.

And I started to list out all the films that I would love to write about, and I got to something like two hundred and sixty three and then I thought, Okay, I.

Can't do that film down.

I've got to pair that down to at least around fifty films.

That's sort of the manageable level when it comes to write a book.

And then I thought, well, I'm definitely not going to write the greatest Films of all time because that book has been written many times.

And what could I possibly have to add to a conversation about eight and a half and seventh Samurai that hasn't already been said.

So then I started thinking about the way that I like to watch films and the way that used to program TCM Imports Millie, which is seasonally, so you always think about the month that you're watching the film on TCM, the various holidays that it's around, And that's how I love to watch movies.

I mentioned Hallmark Christmas movies.

I love watching those around Christmas time.

I love watching Halloween films, scary movies around Halloween, fall films when the leaves start to fall, and summer films to inspire me to go out to the beach.

So I thought about it that way, and that ended up being a much more eclectic way to look at films, and it ended up with a list that is quite wild in the selections.

It's not you know, I think when you write about your favorite films, you could have a tendency to include many of the same genres or the same type of actors, or the same countries.

But this made me go a little bit wider and deeper and think about it more so.

It's not necessarily my favorite films, but there are some favorites.

There are films that aren't necessarily favorites, but all are interesting to talk about.

And then, as you know, Millie from programming TCM imports for so long, what's interesting is both the connection they have to classic films, Hollywood films, American films, and people can relate to them, and also the scope that you get to talk about these films in you're not only talking about the film, the making of the film, or even just the filmmaker, but the country, the trend of the country, the political moods, everything that was happening at that time when that film came out.

Absolutely no, I this is so wonderful.

I'm so glad that you did this.

Book.

It needed to be done.

It looks gorgeous.

I mean you've got like, you know, Penelope Cruise on the cover with like Mastrianni and Black Girl.

I mean, it's awesome and it's available now.

It just came out right like a month ago.

I came out in April twenty two.

And by the way, I have to say, Melly, every time I go to the film festival or I talk to TCM fans, the thing I hear over and over again is I miss Underground.

Oh you really miss Underground.

I'm like, yeah, I know, we miss Underground and we miss Milly.

Oh, thank you for saying that.

That's very sweet of you.

I miss you guys too.

But I'm also I still watch the network constantly, Like I'm like, even though I haven't been there for a couple of years, I was just like, I still watch it.

I'm still I still turn it off because it is like literally the best place to see like any film, but mostly the classics and foreign titles.

Like it's the best channel on cable.

I hate to say it as much as as much as I might have a grape about DZM in some capacity, I'm like, no, it's actually the best channel and you're a big part of that.

So congratulations with everything is there?

Are you working on anything else, like, do you want to tease anything?

Well, if if you're fans of the HBO show Gilded Age, as I am, I love that felt that show.

I'm doing the third season of the podcast, which is starting soon, the third season of the shows and this time, as you know, podcasts are role video now, so it's a video podcast in addition to an audio podcast.

Now I have to say, Gilded Age drinking tea.

No, no liquids in those cups, so I need to have a.

Talking production right there, thank god.

Right there they pour the tea, but the tea they're actually drinking is just it's an empty cup, unfortunately.

But I'm doing that and then yeah, really.

That's living a lovely quiet life in Maine.

Okay, we're coming back with the employees Pick section of the show, where we recommend a movie based on the theme of the discussion we had today.

And oh we have so much, so much things to pick from, so many good options to pick from.

Mellly, what's your employees Pick?

I am not going to choose, even though I should, I am not going to choose the sequel to show Girls, which is called show Girls Too Pennies from Heaven, featuring the actress Rita Riffle, which who played Penny in the film Penny akaa hope.

Okay, so technically there was a sequel, and I do have this.

I have a rip of this.

Somebody ripped it for me.

I think my friend David ripped it on a disc for me, and I actually haven't seen it yet, but it is literally on my console table in front of my television.

I think in thirty years will be a reappraisal and people will appreciate Showgirls.

Two Pennies from Heaven.

Yeah.

Is it Rina Riffle or Rina Raffel anyway, it was produced by and distributed by her production company, Rina Rafel Films.

I think it's some incredible.

The budget was thirty thousand dollars, written and directed by it.

I mean, come on, that's just gonna be like a honorable mention.

I suppose, yes.

So anyway, my reco my actual employee pick for this week is I mean, it's probably real basic, I suppose, but I'm gonna go the Gina Gershan route and I'm going to pick bound from nine oh ninety six.

It came out the year after Showgirls, Brand New Wish like maybe a little over a year Blu ray on Criterion.

The Wakowski Sisters, Holy shit, this movie rules.

I love Battles.

This movie is incredible.

It's so good, isn't it.

It's so good And it's just like the Wakowski's were so good.

Just that's like their first movie and it's it's so it's incredible.

Yeah, it's a great, great film.

Joey Pants, Joe PANTALOONI is sleaziest fuck in this film.

It's so good.

I mean honestly, like if you did a double feature of Showgirls and Bound.

Damn oh, I'm having a great time.

That's a great double feature.

There's a picture of I think it's at Sundance Film Festival of Joey Pants, Gina Kershawan and Jennifer Tilley all in a hot tub together and Joey Pants is smoking the cigar and he's got his arms around the two of them and they it's like they look like they're having the time of their lives.

God, and well, if you want to do a double feature of show Girls and Bound with me, you can email us at dear movies at exactly rightmedia dot Com provided that I have time, but I love Bound, and I.

If it fits into her calendar, she will will.

I love Bound, and I'm so glad it got a Criterion release.

It's so good, So that's my pick.

It's really you can see why the Wakowskis were allowed to do a big budget blockbuster movie after making that movie.

It's just so good, so good.

I'm gonna pick another Paul Verhoven movie.

It's actually I think the movie he made after Showgirls, and that is nineteen ninety seven's Starship Troopers.

I can't believe he got such a big budget after the flop of Showgirls to make this movie.

But he did exactly what he did with Showgirls.

He's like, he made this like outrageous movie that no one understood and flopped.

And Starship Troopers is so violent.

It's the first R rated movie I ever saw.

I was nine years old, and there's so much violence, there's nudity.

It is really outrageous, and it's all about fascism and it's about a fascist state and this is what that looks like and why that is bad.

But a lot of people did not understand that fascist commentary at the time, and uh yeah, but it is a really good sci fi movie with Denise Richards and Neil Patrick Harris and Casper what's his name, van Deen?

Is that his name?

Casper Van Deen, Jake Busey, Michael Ironside.

It's amazing, Clancy Brown.

I love this movie.

I watched this movie all the time.

Yeah, if you go back at our feed right now on Apple, I think there was an episode where I talked about I did Starship Troopers for I saw what you did and it was such it was such a blast to rewatch again.

I mean I I mean it was hard to pick an employee pick because I definitely wanted to go to the Verhaven route initially, but you made a good choice, Starship Troops.

Thank you, Starship Troopers.

Love it amazing, what a great episode.

Passionate aditions run high here on Deer Movies.

I love you.

Yeah.

I think we're gonna have to do sec a sequel to this episode on our Instagram live, so check for those things if you are on the internet.

Absolutely.

Okay, So in the future, you know, usually we give out film advice.

We didn't this time because we just were too chatty, but we love it when people write us and need recommendations, or if you want to talk about like a filmography for somebody, or if you've got a film gripe or a film consensual growth.

Like a film consensual growth right, please.

Do all of that at Dear Movies at exactlyrightmedia dot com.

And if you want to, it would be great.

If you want to leave us a voicemail, just record it on your phone and like the notes app or something like that or the voice memos app, and then send it to us.

Make sure it's under a minute so we can actually play it.

And yeah, So I love all the people that have written in and given us voicemails.

Some really they're just great, great stuff.

I was looking through the emails, by the way, like I don't I don't do this often, but I was like, I'm going to pop in the emails and somebody like, so obviously we're we got somebody that talked about how you were their unrequited crush because we talked about that.

Yeah, and then somebody wrote me a love letter.

Yeah, oh yeah, I forgot to report that.

Oh thanks for telling me, because I was just sitting in there and I was like, damn, who wrote this?

Yeah, so we're accepting love letters, people telling us they have crushes on us.

We like all of that stuff a lot, and it won't be right on the show, but we do appreciate it.

Well, maybe we'll read it on the show if it's really well written or something.

But we accept all of that at Deer Movies at Executretmedia dot com.

Uh, follow us on our socials at Deer Movies I Love You on Instagram and Facebook.

Our letterbox handles are at Katie Leo Ryan and at end of Jericho.

And you can listen to Dear Movies I Love You on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

That is right, Well, Casey, let's talk about next week.

Oh my god, Yeah, we're doing a newer movie.

We are, and I must feel like we had to because I had so many people in my life like send me a message and ask me my take on it, and so when I pitched it, I was like, CAZy, let's just do an episode about it because we're gonna have to.

But we want to talk about the new movie that came out this year that was the follow up by the director Sline Song her film Past Lives that came out a few years ago.

We're going to talk about Materialists, starring Dakota Johnson, Chris Evans, and Pedro Pascal.

And it's going to be interesting because it's that very new movie came out very recently.

So it's another kind of themeless episode.

Well, we're just gonna really ero in on this movie and figure out what the the hell is going on because people are talking about it.

Yeah, and it's yet another movie storing a love triangle of people.

What's up of this?

We'll see, We'll find out, all.

Right, Casey, thanks again for your studying discourse on a masterpiece and I had a good.

Time me too.

Thank you Alisha Malone for being on the show.

Great chatting with you.

All Right, everyone, see you next time.

Bye.

This has been an exactly right production hosted by me Milli to Cherico and produced by my co host, Casey O'Brien.

This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel.

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, our guest booker is Patrick Cottner, and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

Our incredible theme music is by the best man in the entire world, The Softies.

Thank you to our executive producers Karen Kilgareth Georgia hart Stark, Daniel Kramer and Milli Cherco.

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