Hey, Casey, how are you well, Millie?

I'm not good because I'm mad at you.

Why are you mad at me?

Millie?

I'm mad because you haven't read my screenplay.

I sent you my screenplay like two months ago and you haven't read it yet.

And I spent a lot of time on it and I was hoping to get some notes back.

So just to be clear, So now that we do a podcast together, I'm supposed to read your screenplays.

Just well you're not.

You're not supposed to, but you said you would.

Okay, I barely remember that, but I will.

I will submit it that It's fine.

I don't know what to tell you about.

So let me ask you.

Okay, written a screenplay before?

Have you done that before?

Well, inasmuch that I've seen a film that's based on a screenplay before, but having actually written one.

No, And I don't you know, after you know, once you read the screenplay, I think it might surprise you that I actually have not taken any classes or read any books about writing a screenplay.

Mmm, it might surprise me.

Yeah, well, I'm gonna say that.

First of all, I've never read a screenplay, so maybe I'm not the best judge of this, But I really feel like you could have trimmed a few pages.

Okay, so you have read the screenplay, I knew it.

What was this to do?

Be like, your screenplay is too damn long.

So it should be shorter.

I believe the final page count was four hundred pages.

I literally could not believe I made it through.

Like I was like, I've given up on this shit.

Okay, come on, how long have I really known this guy?

How long have I really on page like two forty or something.

I was like, yo, well, it's a rich text, and you know, I was going for something kind of like it's a for our listeners.

It's a teen sex camp romp comedy, you know, And so I was sort of going for, like, I don't know, meat balls meets Remains of the Day, that type of thing.

Is that what you were going for?

Oh, Remains of the Day.

I definitely caught that influence for sure in there.

Out of curiosity, dude, like, how many panty raids is too much?

Well, the name of the screenplay is panti raid, and so I figured, well, last time I counted, there were twenty seven panny raids in the screenplay.

But I felt like there could be more if needed.

I gotta be honest with you.

I thought probably after the second one.

I'm like, somebody has to know that there's a panty right coming.

Why are the extra times?

Why more than just one or two?

Okay, And this is a good note you're giving me.

I'm gonna take this note, and I think we'll meet in the middle somewhere.

I listen.

I applaud your effort.

I love the passion.

But dude, okay, well, this is all good, This is all helpful, you know.

Yeah, well, you know I can always improve, and I think I'll probably improve more my screenplay that is, Yeah, we'll improve more after our discussion today because we're actually talking about camp movies.

We are.

It's like, how timely, how timely that the screenplay business has come up.

Because our episode today is about this is a Casey signature theme.

I feel like this is coming like from the deranged mind of Casey O'Brien.

From the twisted mind.

So we're gonna talk about what nineties camp movies.

That's right, and in particular a movie I this might be the movie I've seen more than any other movie.

Wow, that is nineteen ninety five's Heavyweights, which I believe was a first time watch for you.

Oh, one hundred percent first time watch for me.

I gotta be honest.

As a as a kid, a chunky child, I would have like this.

First of all, this movie came out when I was in high school, so I was already passed that kind of like Disney phase.

But I probably would have if he came out during my childhood, I would have never seen it because I was, of course, you know, I like I was minutes away from being dragged to a camp hope, if you know what I mean.

Yes, So, but I gotta tell you, like, I have a lot to say about it first time watch.

I have a lot of thoughts and I'm also again like fascinated by your brain and I want to dive into it.

So okay, fabulous.

Well, in addition to that, we're gonna have some We're doing a segment we're calling film regrets, and I think we'll get more into that when that segment comes up.

But kind of things we regret about our film going journey in our lives, the way we approach certain films, the regrets we have.

But yeah, an exciting episode, and well, I guess think and thank you, I guess for the notes on my screenplay.

I'm gonna go get right back into final draft and really clean things up, and I'll get a new draft to you by next week so you can read that one once.

Well, once that's sent over.

Thank you very much.

I'm anticipating it, I guess.

But stay tuned, everybody.

You are listening to Dear Movies, I Love.

You, Dear.

Love and I've got to.

Love me to.

Check the books.

All right, folks, As I just mentioned, you are listening to the podcast Dear Movies, I Love You.

This is a film podcast for people who are in love with movies.

They're in a relationship with movies.

My name is Millie to Chericho.

I'm Kissy O'Brien.

And yeah, this episode, dude.

Summertime, summertime, summer fun.

I'm excited for the summer, and this episode, I'm excited.

For summer too, actually, and usually i'm very much not.

Oh, I don't know.

Well, it's because it's so hot here that I just feel like but I.

In Minneapolis, in Minnesota, coming out from winter and it to the summer is one of the greatest feelings because it feels like you're being reborn now and everybody goes like everybody leaves their houses immediately, and it's kind of fun.

It feels like a very communal event some time.

Yeah, I don't know, I'm looking I'm kind of looking forward to it a little bit.

I kind of want to, like do a little road tripping.

I'm going to go on a road trip in a couple weeks with some friends of mine, so that should be pretty exciting.

I did a whole deep dive into I don't know if about you, but do you consult with the Wirecutter, which is New York Times is kind of like consumer Reports if you will.

One hundred percent.

If I'm buying a new appliance, I go to Wirecutter.

Oh my god, if you looked at if you look at my Google bar history, it's like car Air Freshener's Wirecutter, you know, like best Shampoo, Wirecutter.

I'm just everything that I want to research ends in Wirecutter, and I just hope that it shows up.

Yeah, what did I just do for Wirecutter?

Best sewing Machine?

Just got a new sewing machine?

Wow?

Yeah, that's exciting.

Yeah, so I did.

I have now started listening to their podcast I don't know if you listen to their podcast, Oh my god, it's if you are a person who's obsessed with like product reviews, it doesn't even really matter what they are, and you just like want to hear people talk about testing things, and they're like methods for testing things.

You will love this podcast.

I've listened to like every EPI like, I think there's probably like thirty of them at this point, but I've listened to all of them.

I don't even care if I need it, you know, like a baby stroller.

I'm just like, I don't give a shit, Like I just want to I want to hear the information.

But they did an episode recently about sunscreen and it was extremely informative, and I'm like, oh, it's summertime now, I'm going to re up all my sunscreens cuz I just realized that I probably have sunscreen in my cabinet from like twenty five years ago.

Yeah, so I have like bann Aslet from the eighties in my in my cabinet.

So I was like, oh, this is great because there's all these different options now, and there's all these different things to be scared of.

Yeah, so to do wrong, there's so many more things you can do wrong.

Very good.

Well, summertime.

We're here and we must begin our episode like we do every episode.

Bye, opening up our film diary.

Do you like this bit still where we open it and it's creaky?

I love it and I don't give a shit too if anyone hates it.

If anyone hates it, don't leave a review in Apple podcast, please just don't mention it.

Just don't keep listening.

Millie.

What have you watched this last week?

Well, I gotta tell you it was another very light week.

I had a lot of stuff going on.

I did watch one movie though, and it's like, I feel like it's such a layup that I don't even feel like mentioning it in a way because it's literally on probably twenty four hours a day on some channel, like on some channel in the world, this movie is playing.

But I watched Bride's Maids for the like nine hundredth time.

It's an addictive film, yeah, and it's a good movie.

Well, and it's like, to me, it fits perfect because I feel like there's some crossover for our movie.

Perhaps there's a connective tissue.

Yeah, And so I think that's kind of like why I actually sat and watched it again.

I mean, I actually I got to admit I will watch it anytime it's on, anytime it's on.

But I was like, oh yeah, I'm gonna sit in front of it and watch it to completion.

And I gotta tell you, it's fucking funny.

It's funny as shit.

Like it's it's still like a funny movie.

Like I swear to god, Christian wigg on the airplane when she like takes the pill, and you know, it's like, I'm missus Iglesias.

That shit is.

It's still hits.

I haven't seen Kristin wig in a little bit.

Yeah what she doing, I don't know.

I hope she's like totally off the radar.

I'm you know what I gotta tell you, Like these days, I'm very very much about celebrities who just drop off the face of the earth.

Yeah.

I just think it's a good move for the time.

Yeah we're living in I.

Mean, she probably made some decent cash, shola, she can just hang out and do nothing.

Yeah.

Well, anyway, so that's my that's my film diary for this sick, so bad and loose.

But anyway, what a very good.

Uh, Okay, I'm on my little journey to watch all the Mission Impossibles.

So I watched Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning Part one from twenty twenty three again i'd seen it already.

Wow, fabulous.

I really love these movies.

They really are very intoxicating for me, and I'm addicted to them.

Wow.

And I can't wait to see Mission Impossible the Final Reckoning in theaters alone because no one will see it with me.

Uh.

Then I watched the new fear Street movie on Netflix, Fear Street prom Queen.

It was fine, it was cute, and it was stylish.

There's a really bad probably the worst dance off in a movie I've ever seen.

In my life.

Yikes.

So that was disappointing.

And I think it's time to I think we need to put an end to the the kind of Stranger Things eighties nostalgia.

Yeah, eighties horror thing that's been going on for so long.

Yeah.

So, well, I got to agree with you, there's a little bit too much of that.

I feel like my I never really dipped my toe.

First of all, I've never seen Stranger Things, so I don't know what that's like.

I don't know what that's like.

My My dip into this world was it's sort of related, I feel like, but like I went through this kind of mini tear of so Lifetime, the Lifetime Movie Channel and Lifetime Network kind of revamped Flowers in the Attic, which is it's an Eighties I would say it's like part of this world of the like, I won't say it's like supernatural necessarily very moody.

Yes, it's like kind of Victorian creepy, even though it doesn't take place in children yeah, or actually, I don't know when.

I think Flowers in the Attic takes place in modern times, but they just I think it rests like Victorian people because they're rich.

I watched this movie last year, so I've seen it recently.

Which one was the eighties one?

Yeah, and I think it was because it was kind of like the clothes in the Attic or old.

Yeah, and they're rich, but it felt modern.

It felt like the mom was in modern times, going on dates, trying to find a he'll be out there.

Yeah.

I think she had shoulder pads in for sure.

So the eighties version is a masterpiece.

It is a master piece, folks.

And I've talked about this on I saw what you did.

Anybody that knows me knows how much fucking passion and love I have for the original Flowers movie with Luis Fletcher and Christy Swanson.

An incredible film.

I agree, incredible film.

It's like so iconic in so many ways.

And then it was like the movie the books were.

I had been sneaking copies of those books since I was in like sixth grade because they were just like Playboy for girls and gay guys basically.

And uh I So then when Lifetime started kind of revamping them and doing all these like remix, I was like on that train for a little while and it was kind of psychotic.

But were they kind of retroy like eighties style or no?

No?

I mean yeah, I feel like, who's the daughter from Madmen who plays you'reing in Shipka?

Yeah, she's in one of them or in a couple of them.

So anyway, that was kind of my version of this.

I guess Fandango, the Fear Street, Stranger Things.

What else is there?

Do you know?

If there's other properties.

There are There were a lot of movies that came out.

I can't even really think of any off the top of my head, but there was a lot that took place, that was kind of tapping into that nineteen eighties synthy horror type of movie.

I mean, even like a movie kind of like It follows felt like that, even though I loved that movie or the IT movies, right, the IT movies, Yes, yeah, but I like eighties horror movies in and of themselves, So I was already I was kind of an easy mark for this kind of stuff.

But I got kind of tired of it, I guess.

So anyways, just it is fine, it's fun, It's what you'd expect it to be.

Then I watched this is the last one, and this was in research for this episode, Okay, research, I watched the movie Meatballs from nineteen seventy nine, the Camp class at which I had never seen, and was very disappointed.

Oh by it, and tell me why, just because you had so much expectation going in.

You know, it's kind of the archetype for all camp movies that come after it.

I mean, we had American Summer is essentially a parody of Meatballs in some ways, and the plot of Heavyweights is the exact same plot of Meatballs.

Essentially, there's like a rival camp and there's a competition at the end, and I think I thought it would be funnier and sexier, but it's PG.

But it also did not age well and is incredibly problematic, you know, without being sexy, you know, I you know, Animal House is a problematic movie and a lot of people have problems with it.

But it's kind of a cool movie and a funny movie, I think.

And it looks good and the actors are good in it, and I can't really say the same for meat Balls.

And also I'm a Bill Murray skeptic.

I don't like love him.

Oh, and I think he seems like a jerk.

Wow.

I would say that's a hot take, but it's actually not.

I feel like that is kind of I feel like people are I don't know.

As time has moved.

On, the worm has turned yeah on Bill Murray.

Yeah, so interesting.

Yeah that's all I saw.

Well, thank you for sharing.

You're welcome.

Let's close it up, Milly, he's still lifting, Milly, are you able?

Do you have the strength to close?

I could do an overhead press and just do it in reverse.

Already It's now time for our main discussion camp movies of the nineteen nineties and heavyweights from nineteen ninety five.

But before we get into all that, Millie, I have to ask you, did you ever go to camp?

Is camp something that was a part of your life?

No, so I never went to Okay.

I was in Girl Scouts for a lot of years in my childhood and I would go camping with the Girl Scout troupe.

But I've never been to like a sleep away camp for multiple weeks type of thing.

Yes, So no, I guess my answer is no.

Okay, have you well?

When I was a kid, you know, I experimented with day camps where I'd go like during the day for a week.

And then once when I was in sixth grade, my friend Michael and I did one week of sleep awa camp.

So I have a little bit of experience with that.

But then in high school and the beginning of college, I was a camp counselor and it wasn't a sleep away camp.

It was a day camp.

But I would have to get on a bus at seven am and I would be home at five pm.

And it was Monday through Friday all summer, so it was quite intensive.

Yeah, and it was out in the country on like a campgrounds.

It basically was like the camp experience except no sleeping over, you know, So it was what'd you say.

I said, weird that it was every day for like an entire summer, but nobody slept there, so they just would go to the country for the day and then come back.

Yeah, it was like a forty five minute bus ride out there, and I'd have to you know, you're on the I was a camp counselor, so I was like had to be in charge of the kids on the bus and then we'd get to camp and I'd have like a group of kids for the day.

But it was kind of like what hot a Maria in summer, which we commented on at the time.

It was like a bunch of young people and things were out of control.

I mean the camp counselors.

I remember this was like two thousand and four to two thousand and seven.

Camp counselors were smoking cigarettes.

A lot of times, we did not know where our kids were.

A lot of times other counselors would come hang out with like me and my friends and abandon their children somewhere in the woods.

And it was like it was a time before things felt really locked down.

It felt like things are probably very different now in terms of like you know, checks and balances.

Sure, but yeah, so I would say camp is like something that was a part of my life certainly.

I I'm gonna float this out there.

I feel like so Danielle and I had talked about this once about going to camp, because she and I had never been to camp.

And I'm just gonna maybe slightly repeat what I said there, sure, maybe go off a little bit more to me.

And this is just my opinion.

It always felt like sleep away camp was for like white kids.

Well it is, yes, one hundred percent.

I think you're one hundred percent correct.

It's for white kids.

And it is a big part of the Jewish community in the East Coast.

Like I have friends from the East Coast who are Jewish that go to camps that are all Jewish kids, and it is a big part of every summer is that you go away and you have your your camp friends, but you're friends with for life, you know, and I don't it is a big white person thing.

Well and like and to that point, maybe that seems a little bit.

I think the thing about the idea of like I think about my parents, my immigrant parents wouldn't try trust other people enough to send me somewhere for weeks on end to sleep there.

Like even though my parents were annoyed with their kids and didn't want them around for once in a while, you know, like like every parent, especially of the eighties and nineties, where they would just like send you off on your bike in the woods all day and they're like, just don't come home, just stay out, we don't want.

To see you.

It's very different than they do it now, which is that like kids hang out with their parents all the time they were you know, like parents worked, they didn't want to when they got home they were like, I don't want to hang out with you.

Well that's the thing.

Even when my parents weren't working on the weekends or whatever, I was not hanging out with my parents.

Oh yeah, and I feel very close to my parents, but like I am too.

We weren't like it seems like kids and their parents now are so buddy buddy.

Oh yeah.

Like my sister hangs out with my nephews like every fucking day.

So I was like, whoa, that's interesting.

But it's but that I think was the the first of all.

It was cost My parents were like never gonna spend the money they wouldn't even want to go to first run movies.

They're not gonna pay for like an expensive summer camp thing.

And then on top of that, they were like, we just don't want to like let you into the wild with like a bunch of strangers without you know, like I don't know what the hell, even though like if they had, if they had known about a fat cam, they probably would have sent me one.

Oh no, sure, I will.

I will explain this a little bit more when we get into Heavyweights.

But I was like, I mean, there's like some very triggering moments in this movie.

If you were like a fucking if you were like a chubby kid growing up, man, I was like, damn, I've been there.

Skim milk.

Who the fuck loves skim milk?

Am I right.

That?

I hate skim milk.

It's disgusting.

It's like milk flavored water.

Yes, adults were constantly if you were like chunk kids, the adults were like, you you gotta drink skim milk, Like why.

That's the cure?

All yeah, the lix.

So anyway, I guess the whole issue really is that I did want to have that experience because it felt like it's such an iconic experience of going to camp and like having like writing camp letters and sure, you know, I don't know, doing the like little darling stuff of like you know, having food fights and going out on canoes and stuff.

But the idea of not having TV for that long, yeah, just seemed like torture.

Yeah, like I'd a whole summer.

That seems so crazy to send little kids away for the whole summer.

It's wild.

Yeah, But people do it.

People do it all the time.

You know, it's funny.

We're gonna talk about the movie obviously, but there were so many camp movies and like TV shows in the nine and late eighties, and I'm gonna throw in even Wet Hot American Summer, which came out in two thousand and one.

Sure, but just to it was like a lot of them.

I was kind of surprised going through it.

There's Camp Nowhere from nineteen ninety four with Christopher Lloyd, which was a beloved movie in our house, as well the show Salute Your Shorts on Nickelodeon, Bug Juice on Disney Channel.

Adam's Family Values is a camp movie from nineteen ninety three.

You know, the whole Thanksgiving, a play which happens during the summer for some reason, The Parent Trap in nineteen ninety eight with Lindsay Lohan.

There's a lot of others.

But what do you think it is?

Why was this happening?

Why was there so much camp culture going on in the nineties.

Yeah, it's hard.

I mean I feel like the structure of a camp like it allows for like ensemble cast of kids, which I think is like I think it's it's really if you want to maybe distill it, it's it's kind of a just a proliferation of like kids programming, right.

So it's like there was always camp movies.

I mean there was like camp stuff in the eighties, obviously a lot of times horror, right, But I think like as the decade of the eighties moved on and there was just more and more children's programming between like Nickelodeon, Disney Channel and just sort of like I don't know, more things geared towards kids, like toys and things.

I feel like it just kind of crested in the nineties where it was just like, Okay, well we have all these like children that we've been selling wares to and having them form positive brand affiliations with cable networks and whatnot.

So like, let's just try to keep it going.

And I guess it's it is like, you know, it's like any show that you can get like five or six, you know, funny kids together who have different personalities, and you know, like, what are they gonna do?

Have a job?

No, They're gonna be a camp.

Well, I think as from a narrative structure point of view, it is a it's a place where kids are essentially totally free, unlike regular society.

Yeah, you know, and so like it allows different types of storylines where like kids have total independence.

I mean that's kind of why I like the show Pete and Pete Growing Up The Adventures of Pete and Pete is because this was essentially a show about children who there are no rules that apply to them.

I mean, they have parents on the show, but it's like they're you know, parents are the enemy, you know, and but in you know, in the camp, the kids are running wild.

They have no rules, there's no real disciplinary structure for them, right.

No, Well, let's get into Heavyweight's a little bit A beloved film, A beloved film in My Household nineteen ninety five.

It was directed by Stephen Brill, who went on to direct a bunch of Adam Sandler movies, including Little Nikki and Hohobie Halloween, to name a few.

Screenplay is by Steven Brill and jud Apatow, and this movie is kind of responsible for Freaks and Geeks because Paul Fig, the creator Freaks and Geeks, is in this movie as well as a camp counselor.

But the synopsis is on the final day of school, eleven year old Jerald Garner played by Aaron Schwartz is told by his parents that he has to go to Camp Hope, a weight loss camp aka a fat camp.

He hates the idea because I love this.

I love his line that he says, I have plans for the summer.

I'm gonna hang out.

I love that, but he has to go.

He hates the idea, but once he meets the fellow campers and realizes that no one there is really there to lose weight.

It's more just to have a good time, he changes his tune.

But little do they all know, a physical fitness cycle path named Tony Purkis Junior played by Ben Stiller, has purchased the camp.

He turns the camp into something closer to a military prisoner of war camp with the hopes of making money off an infomercial he's making.

What will Jerry and his band of brothers do to save their summer?

We don't know what we do because we watched the movie.

But uh, what did you think, Milly?

For initial thoughts?

You know, initial thoughts?

You know?

Okay, So like obviously I felt like this was something this this is a movie that I missed, you know, first run because.

It is a children's movie.

Yehi Caad by Disney.

Yeah ninety five.

I was you know, I was in my Shi head phase.

I wouldn't have watched a Disney movie, right, yeah, So, like I would have been like fifteen or sixteen years old.

So by that time I was already like quoting reservoir dogs because then drinking mister Boston's vodka by the gallon.

In fact, I was a drinker in high school.

Did you drink in high school?

Not at all?

Wow?

I yeah, I didn't drink at all in high school.

I think all the like popular kids and the hockey players, they all were really into drinking, and I think for me, I was like afraid, but also I was like, I don't want to be like these people, like these people are not cool.

Like the cool kids drank and the art kids I feel like didn't.

But it wasn't like I wasn't like straight edge or like Christian or anything.

I was just quiet and unpopular.

You know.

Yeah, well I I drank.

I wasn't cool.

I can think I can say that I was like extremely othered in this weird way where I was artsy and like weird, but even there was like a tier above me of like popular artsy people are like I hear that popular alternative kids.

So it was basically like probably deflectors.

In any other era, they would have been like a jock, but they were like into Nirvana and Pearl Jam and they were just like so they were alternative kids, but they were hot and like had sex and they made fun of me and my friends because we were like sub human alternative kids or punk rock.

Yes, does that make sense?

So yeah, I mean I think also I didn't drink because I and I'm not saying this for a pity party thing.

I truly did not have many friends in high school, Like I really I did not have a group of friends.

I had sort of one offs, but like most weak I didn't really have anyone to hang out with.

Yeah, and it wasn't until a college that I found my you know, my people.

But high school, I went to a very jock heavy high school, and uh, I had a hard time.

It was an unpleasant time, and I was very excited to be jettisoned out of there and go to Los Angeles.

Afterwards after high school graduation.

So well, I think that's part of the reason why I drank so much in high school or like smoked we I did all of my partying in high school because I couldn't stand it.

And then when I got to college, I was like, oh, this is great because I am in a film program with like a bunch of other cool like weird film people, and I'm a DJ on the college radio station.

So I wanted to be like mentally present for all these things.

Yeah.

So I just was a wasight.

I was wasted in high school, and it was great because I moved past it.

And now I'm bad.

I should have been I should have drank.

I should have drank more in high school when I was you know, fifteen years old.

Yeah, but I always to say heavy weights would have been on my radar for that reason alone, of course.

But then I mean, this is gonna be like probably a little bit personal strap the fucking everyone.

But it was like for me, I think that I was I was always avoiding things like that would have discussed weight, sure or anything, because it was so I mean, you know, as a kid, you're just so shamed for that, and so I did not want to be around And even if it was like a positive thing at the end, or if it was kind of a comedy, or if it was sort of like it had a good like intention about it, I just was like, I don't want to be in front of anything that talks about fatness or weight in any way.

Yeah, I mean I have so many friends who I feel like have a lot of trauma from like being put on like I don't even know the names of these programs, but like weight loss programs for little you know, Jenny Craig programs for little kids, and like drinking like slim Fast.

Slim Fast, Yes, that was a big thing, and like that still comes up and that's like twenty thirty years later, and so I can see why that would be something you would want to avoid, Yeah, at all, costs.

Oh that was me, bitch.

I was at Weight Watchers when I was like twelve years old, and I was not even there was no like junior version of it.

It was like me and a bunch of like middle aged women.

And there's a scene in Heavyweights that was like and when I say like being triggered, it's like, I'm in a really good place about who I am, and so this is all just me like just saying the word in order to just say it right.

Sure, but there was that scene of where they're doing like weigh in that was so like, I mean, first of all, I kept thinking to myself, that could never happen, Like that is just so deeply embarrassing to be weighed in front of a room full of people, unless you're like a boxer.

But if you're like a fucking child who like they've told you has a weight problem and then they like weighing you in front of other kids and other adults, I mean that was horrifying.

Yeah.

But like when I remember being in Weight Watchers when I was twelve, like some of these kids age basically and they would do that, they would weigh you in front of people, and it wasn't like a thing where it was like one person stands and everybody waits.

They had like different like weight scale stations or whatever, so everybody was kind of getting weighed at the same time.

But just the fucking concept of having that happen in a public space at all is so crazy to me.

Yeah, yeah, I mean I think this movie is attempting to be empowering.

Yeah, whether it succeeds is another, you know, issue altogether.

But Keenan Keenan Thompson, who's in this movie, plays Roy.

He wrote in his biography which came out a few years ago, and this was in a People magazine.

I saw he was writing about how he had body image issues when he was a kid, you know, he was like a famous kid, and he said that he felt exploited a little while filming Heavyweights and wrote that he convinced himself that it wasn't happening to him.

But that's really sad.

And I did think about the kids on this just casting the movie, you know, like, hey, we need we need fat kids for a movie called Heavyweights, And it's like, how do you get how do these little kids, you know, and are their parents like my kid's fat?

I can get him he could be in this you know, it's like it's sort of disturbing to think about that.

Yeah, process even handled right, they're.

Being like casting session where they're like, well they're like looking at like kids' headshots, being like, well, I like this fat kid and the other fat kid.

I don't like it just seems so that's just so bleak and fucked up, you know.

Yeah.

Well, and like.

This is the thing that I kept coming back to when I was watching this movie, where I was like, there are good moments happening, like certainly there are like semi tender, decent moments happening in this movie, but then there's just moments where I feel like maybe they had good intentions for it, but it was like it's just too sensitive, Like you just it's almost kind of like you just can't go there and not offend somebody, like offend like somebody is gonna be feeling some type of way, even though it's just part of like what would maybe happen in a camp, like I don't know, like the way in thing, I mean, just the whole like and then just like the whole like idea that they're like sneaking candy and like all this kind of stuff like they just have like they're like raiding the bunks and like trying to get rid of like literal dried sausages that are being hidden up her mattresses, where I was like, that's funny as fuck to me.

But at the same time, like this poor kid is hiding his his meats.

He brought meat meat, and I'm like, that is so fucked up.

Like I'm laughing because I'm laughing, but you know what I mean, Like.

It's it's shocking that it's a Disney movie.

It did seem like they snuck stuff in where I'm like, I'm kind of surprised this guy in there.

Yeah, you know, well I have Okay, So first of all, I gotta I'm just gonna say, for the record, i am patting myself on the back that I've done enough therapy to be able to like process this movie in an adult, high level way, Okay, because again, like it is, it can be very triggering for people.

And if you're out here listening to this and you like you just can't go there with a movie like this, totally get it.

I totally get it, absolutely, But I feel like, hey, I've done like the fact that I'm here at this moment talking about this movie is kind of remarkable if you think about how I was when I was like thirteen years old.

Certainly, but I I my big this is all related, by the way.

My big thing that I wanted to talk to you about is Ben Stiller because he is obviously the villain of this movie.

Yes, okay, and he he's playing yet another it's like at a Ben still Stock character.

If you think about it.

Right, it's like this extremely charismatic like psychopath that is like kind of like a Tony Robbins meets Tom Cruise.

Like he's just this like you know, white teeth, like extremely you know, like fit psycho.

Right, and like he is the perfect villain in this movie because he's like, you know, comes out and he's very Tony Robins esk and he's wearing his like Spandex outfits and he's shredded.

Right.

Yes, So.

There's this moment where I'm like, Okay, so that is kind of his bread and butter, because he's like that in a lot of his comedy.

I would say this character and the character in Dodgeball, Yes, are almost interchangeable.

Yes, that's what I was thinking that.

I was like, this guy turns into the Dodgeball guy, right, am?

I right about that?

It's it seems like, I mean, it's not the same character, but it is, yeah, you know.

Well, and it's like he's also like you know, he's done this guy so many times, Like you know, I was thinking about even Zoolander, even Tropic Thunder, like like he's just basically this like ripped dude that is really amping up his his sort of obnoxious fucking Hollywood like I don't know, just like top It very feels very top Cruise to me.

And I know he does Tom Cruise impressions.

But that's like, yes, the character.

And it's interesting because I've laughed at that character several times, like I've been like, oh yeah, like what a buffoon type of thing.

And that's like obviously the point.

And you know, I actually thought about the Ben Stiller Show, which was his short lived you know what is it sketch comedy show that he did like right before Heavyweights, Like he was doing it in like the early nineties, and he would like a lot of times like lampoon shit, like you know, he there was this whole like Beverly Hills nine O two one oh send up that he did where he played both.

He was like, he played both like Dylan and Brandon, who like these characters like from like a teen show.

Like he played both guys but had slightly different clothes, which I thought was kind of funny.

But it's like he's I think Ben Stiller is so interesting because I'm like, he feels like a funny weirdo, but he's also like too hot and will get into he will he has no problem taking a shirt off.

And this is what I said.

During the Zach brap I know he gets the Zach Braff Award for guy who has frequently looks for opportunities to be shirtless.

Yes, And I'm like, there's something about that.

There's something about there.

There's something where I'm like, what compels a filmmaker or a creator to just always find the opportunities to show off his guns and his shirtless body?

Because that's not me.

That's definitely not me or pretty much any of the directors.

I like it's a specific type of thing too, especially the Zach Braf It's like, wouldn't it be funny if my shirt was off?

In this?

It's always like you can kind of like the benefit of the doubt is like, well, I'm doing it because it's funny.

Isn't this funny that my shirt is off?

You know, It's not like it's a comedy guy doing it.

It's not like a regular hot leading man guy saying it, you know, but that.

Makes it worse to me.

Yeah, I'm just like it's this kind of like back door like, well, you know, I do have a hot body, even though I'm not supposed to because I'm like a weird guy and I'm weird and quirky and I'm a comedy guy and I'm like, no, dude, like you're hot, just fucking own it, don't couch it in this whole Like I'm just gonna be like an extremely hot, obnoxious guy character in every movie.

Like it's not interesting.

It's almost like his body is informing his comedy choices.

It's interesting.

Well, And I.

Feel about saying this because I actually think Ben Siller is great, Like I like I do too.

His movies are fun and and.

He honestly seems like kind of a shy person in real life.

Ye Like, he kind of seems like sort of sweet and uh, I like him as a creator like, I've liked Severance and he seems cool, but you can't deny a lot of his characters are showing off their abs well exactly.

And I started thinking about Reality Bites, which is, you know, a movie that he also like directed and he stars in, and his character in Reality Bites, and I don't know him, so I don't know if this is actually true.

And maybe I do know people that know him and can send me a message and tell me that I'm wrong, so whatever, But like his character in that feel felt the most almost in a way, kind of the most authentically him, where it's like he plays like he in Reality Bites, he plays the kind of counterpart to Ethan Hawk's character, who's this like grumpy jed X fucking cigarette smoking dude, right, And like he plays his character Michael, who's like the guy with the job and the suit, and he's like corny and attractive, but he's like sweet and has good intentions.

He's just like a cornball, right, Yeah, And so Winoda Ryder's like, oh my god, who should I be with because it's like I gotta grow up and then but I have but Ethan Hawk, greasy haired Ethan Hawk.

So to me.

I think ben Stiller in that in Reality Bites feel was a little bit more like, Okay, this is like maybe who he could actually be is like, yes, he's hot, and it doesn't have the like alternative swagger of a you know whatever, a nineties hottie.

But he's not like Tony Robbins.

He's kind of just like sweet, but like, yeah, a suit guy.

So then what I watched, like when I watched Heavyweights, I was like, oh, yeah, this guy is a fucking maniac.

And I'm surprised those kids didn't kill.

I know, I was for it.

I was waiting for it.

I was like, are they actually going to kill him?

I mean it's amazing.

I mean Disney, I don't know about Disney, but.

It goes dark.

It certainly goes dark at the end.

I yes, all good thoughts on Ben Stiller, and I agree with all of them, and I think we should we should maybe do I do?

Did we do Reality Bites?

And I saw what you did?

I think we did it very early days and I think Danielle did it.

I don't remember, but that's another like, listen, I can talk about that movie all day.

I might need a reevaluation for me, oh.

Let's do a reavowl.

Look, come on, we got to.

But back to this movie obviously, like, yeah, we've touched upon the problematic elements and how it's like pretty insensitive at times.

I'm gonna look at some of the positive, maybe the positive things about this movie.

Yes, this was kind of you know, I thought it was funny as a kid, but I think it grew an estimation for me when Freaks and Geeks came out and there were kids who were in Heavyweights that were on Freaks and Geeks and the creator of Freaks and Geeks, Paul Figue is a counselor in Heavyweights, and jud Appatoo like wrote and produced Freaks and Geeks and I was obsessed with Freaks and Geeks too.

That was like a huge part of my identity, and that only came out Freaks and Geeks really came out like four years after this, and so there is like that connective tissue that I find really interesting and there is sort of a similar sense of humor there.

And then I became like obsessed with Undeclared Jet Appatos show after Freaks and Geeks, and it just sort of like informed a lot of my comedy sensibilities, and so I think in retrospect I've attached maybe more meaning to Heavyweights than it had for me as a child, just because it kind of has that connection to those other those other shows and things that were so important to me later.

I think that's about all we can say about Heavyweights.

Did you have any anything else you wanted to discuss?

Well, I just wanted to talk about a couple things.

Number one, aways, I think the kids are adorable, Like they're so good.

The kids are great in this, and so a lot of them never did anything after this.

Yeah, I was gonna say I recognize Kenan obviously.

And then there was also who's the guy that plays kind of like the mob boss.

Kind of Josh?

Yeah, he was on Freaks and Geeks and he was also in he was in Mighty Ducks.

He played Goldberg and Mighty Ducks.

Weiss.

He's run into some troubles with the law lately, and I think he's had a bit of a difficult time, but he was on Yeah, he was on Freaks and Geeks and he seems to be doing better now, but he was another stuff certainly.

Yeah, and you know who I love in this movie, and he kind of plays the hero.

Is the actor Tom mcgallan.

Yes, he pops up in good stuff.

Oh so I remember him, I think the most from Ghost World.

Yeah, people play Steve Buscemi's roommate, Yes, and is.

He has probably if I had to come up, because first of all, I mean I think I'm on record one hundred million times saying Ghost World is a brilliant movie.

The nuances of Ghost World are so fucking good.

And if I had to like rank like the top three most like real true to life moments in ghost World, he as a roommate, an adult roommate, would be like in the top three.

Like he's like I think I think there's a scene where like him and Steve Bushemi are having a conversation and then Tom McGowan just farts, and then I think he just doesn't say anything and then leaves the room.

Yeah, or he'll just be the guy that's like I'm gonna be in my room and no one cares about this a shit like that he's leaving or whatever, and then just the two of them in the garage selling their shit, you know, like on the weekends.

I was like, God, this is brilliant and like that's what.

Like the minute I saw him in Heavyweights, I was like, oh my god, is like the greatest dude in Ghost World?

Are you kidding me?

Like so good and he's so sweet and earnest in this movie.

And I know he really he does.

He brings a gravity toss to the film that it that it needs.

Yeah, yeah, and great and ulternately.

I gotta tell you, scary ass Jeffrey Tambour dad.

Talk about I mean listen, like I didn't send you to go kart camp.

He's like, you're he's still fat, Like he's just amazing, Like my son's so fat, like I can't believe, like I lost a pound.

Yeah, his whole like the very beginning where he brings in like the Tim Blake Nelson guy to like yes, it's like he's trying to sell Amway to his child or some shit, and you're just like this is fucking insane, and it just made me.

It just made me thankful.

Like the Jeffrey tamber character being like the scary dad just made me thankful for my dad, who was such a bata dude, Like he was so non confrontational, like to this day does not want to bring up anything that could be potentially like a fight or could hurt somebody's feelings.

He's such a tender baby that I was like, thank god, my dad was like that.

My dad never once I mean, and this again is getting personal.

My dad never once rode me about my weight.

He never did.

And he was always like playing sports with me, and like he just like he like totally just like was so cool with me.

My dad was always great about it.

So it's like when I watched that, I was like, holy fuck, the dad is scary ast shit.

Like yeah, and Jeffrey Tamper is like tall and menacing, so yeah.

But uh, other than that, I mean, quick quick review of it, huh.

Number one, I'm glad I watched it.

I will always be glad that I watched a movie I've never seen before.

I'm just gonna throw that out there.

Okay, So I'm glad I watched it.

I'm glad you know that it was like a like a favorite in your household.

I can totally see why it was.

I mean, all these like Disney Camp movies are just anything like these are tied to people's childhoods, and I totally get it.

I think this one in particular because it was such a bomb.

Yeah, and it seemed kind of darker and weirder.

It felt like we were kind of getting away with something a little bit sure, like it's different than other Disney movies, you know.

Yeah, I think it probably has a lot to do with the people involved.

I mean just the fact that they had like people like Judd Apptow and Paul Figue and you know, Ben Stiller involved.

I think it it almost was like an adult comedy that was made for kids in some weird way.

Yeah.

I don't know what to think about it in terms of being problematic.

I mean, it definitely is.

Yeah.

I mean, like I said, I think because I feel so good about like the topic of it that at this point in my life that I can like be objective about it.

But I can totally see like someone feeling like shit about, you know.

Like it.

I can totally see it, and a younger version of me would have I think.

So it's almost like problematic isn't the right word.

I feel like it's more insensitive.

Is that maybe more of I don't know, it's it's not handling it quite.

Or is it like I don't want to use the word taboo because it's like that's kind of too strong of a word.

Yeah, just like a topic that is so loaded.

Yeah, that it shouldn't really enter the comedy sphirit, particularly a Disney comedy.

Yeah, you know, yeah, maybe that's what I think.

Maybe that's what I think, even though I enjoyed watching it.

So I don't know, what are you what are your thoughts though?

I want to know.

Yeah, I mean I've seen this.

It's hard.

You know, there's so many movies I sew when I was like this age that it's a little bit hard for me to be objective in my review of it, just because I enjoy it and I have such a nostalgia for it.

I you know, hearing your personal you know, difficulties with you know, weight as a child and friends other friends of mine who have talked about that, like I mentioned, just the the real trauma of going through weight programs as a kid.

You know, it makes it less fun to watch a movie like this, Honestly, it does.

I think it feels meaner watching it right now.

It's like less lighthearted.

But some of the joke I mean, I still think this is like a really funny movie and it kind of taps into that kind of hippie kind of hippie culture kind of made a weird return in the nineties or like for some reason.

And I feel like this sort of taps into that a little bit.

And I kind of enjoy that about this movie as well.

And like a lot of these jokes we still say, like the character of Laws, Yeah, the counselor, like when he's strapped to the tree and they're like, are you with us or you against us?

And he's like, I am with you.

I love you.

Yeah.

And and I just love the you know, like the food orgy.

Yeah, that was like, how could a kid not love that?

I mean, I still love a six foot submarine sand which to this day.

Yeah, so absolutely, I'll always a party sub comes I'm there.

I want to carry it about my head like they do in the movie.

Yeah.

Well, and I will.

Say I feel like maybe a little bad that I was ragging on Ben Siller a little bit in this episode.

Maybe not.

I don't know, he can take it.

You think he can take it.

We were very kind to Ben Stiller.

Yeah, well, but I do love him.

To see through his little tricks, his little tricks to get his abs on screen.

We see you, Ben, and we.

Know what you're doing.

Man, I will say that I do love his the end of the movie where he comes out as this like, uh jewish grandpa character with the like man bag and the swishy suit and he's like.

He's playing his dad.

Tony purkis, well, we're gonna take a bath on this.

He's done that character other times.

Sure, so well, and his parents are both in this movie too, which is kind of fun.

Yeah, that's right.

That's another line we always say, and just another word of advice.

Don't let anyone.

Sign your checks.

Jerry Stiller is fucking funny as fuck, Like like I've always been like, that's a good family.

I mean, as much as his family, as much as his son shows his abs that that family is all really funny.

So and if I look like Ben, maybe I would insist during podcast recordings that it would be funny if I did it shirtless.

Listen I say that too, and listen if I looked like like half as good as he did, I'd be It's like those times on Instagram when you want to post a selfie because you think you look cute, but you don't want to let you kind of like diffuse it or buffer it with like some like weird face or like yeah like or like some caption that's like me just you know me, I just eate twelve boxes of Oreos or something and you look hot or so you know, like something.

Like my mirror is filthy.

Yeah.

But it's like that's what Ben Stiller is in a nutshell, is that he's constantly taking the Instagram shirtless selfie and being like wow, like I'm just a goof.

I feel like a lot of people do, like oh, I'm feeling sick today or like having a sick day, but it's like you really just think you look hot and I think I've done it.

I've done it.

What the fuck we've all done it.

I feel like we've kind of gotten away from that, like just taking a selfie is more social acceptable.

In the beginning of Instagram, it felt like we we had to give a reason for why we would do something, so you know, self indulgent and yeah.

Yeah, I'm like I'll just take a picture of myself and be like I have horrible bags that are my eyes.

I'm like, actually, I think I look.

Amazing, yeah, or that My favorite one is like I took this picture by accident or like one.

Of those where it was like or just the emoji of the upside out smiley face like yeah, anyway, we love you, Ben, America loves you.

Ben.

I'm a big fan.

I like seeing you at the next games.

I think it's great.

I believe you're a true fan.

And uh, I like that you and Timothay are hanging out.

I think it's cute.

Yeah, all right, let's move on.

Salute.

All right, moving on to our next segment, which we're titling film regrets.

Film regrets is, you know, it's an umbrella term for you regret an approach you took with a movie.

Maybe you were like really like loved this movie and on retrospect it was bad, or you had previous thoughts about it.

You're like, this movie's gonna suck, but it ended up being really good and you regret that, or you like said, you know, those are just a few examples, but like regrets to your approach to movie watching and being a movie fan, and you know, if you have any regrets, please write in Dear Movies at exactly rightmedia dot com.

We'll share them with the world.

It can be anonymous if you want.

But Milly, do you have any film regrets you'd like to get off your chest?

This is kind of like a confessional too, Oh.

It is, Oh god, yeah, I feel like I just opened up the little window and you're hear behind a gauze.

Okay, so I'm gonna do can I do like both sides of the coin and I'll probably do whatever we want?

Okay?

So film like I have, my film regrets are like they're kind of like two sided.

So there's the movies like you said that I didn't watch Forever because I thought I was too base to watch them, but then I when I did.

When I did watch them, I was like, oh, these are actually enjoyable.

And these movies are constantly like big rom coms, you know, the big rom coms.

Like one of my biggest ones is When Harry Met Sally.

I remember when that movie came out and I was like, this seems like it's for like weird Woody Ellen New Yorker people that like I don't get it and it's probably like too corny to live.

But I've seen When Harry Mett Sally since many times and it's great.

I actually think when When Harry Mett Sally is a great movie, undeniably, and then the same thing.

I gotta say, I was a long hold out for this movie, but Titanic, like when I watched it for the for I saw what you did.

Finally I was like, oh, this movie is enjoyable.

What was I thinking?

So there we go?

Where's that now?

The other side of the coin.

I just want to say, this just brought up a memory.

This is so random, but I remember being sixteen and at my friend's birthday party.

And this was probably my artsiest friend in high school and it I remember her mom brought out a cake and it was like time for us to sing Happy Birthday, and I was I remember thinking, I was like this art crowd here, this based art crowd is not going to be able to sing happy Birthday.

Like they just like won't do it.

And I remember it was like the mom was came out and was like happy birth and everyone was like and like the whole party was like that.

I was like, this sucks show, But that's how it was.

That's how it was.

I mean, God blessed these like corny moms that had the had children that were like fucking into like nine inch nails and shit because it was a task.

I had a friend like that too, was like basically he was like the weirdest most like goth industrial dude ever.

But his mom was like on he haw or something like very like earnestly southern country lady.

And I was like, damn, birthday parties are gonna be rough for that.

So I hear you.

Anyways, just a memory that was unleashed.

There, memories.

So the other side of the coin, right, like the more interesting is the movies that I kind of felt like I liked and was like a big stand of at one point, and now I look at them and I'm like horrifying.

Yeah, So now I mean I think, obviously the one with a bullet And I've said this before, pulp Fiction, like, oh my god, I was like so obsessed with pulp fiction when it came out and I watched it recently, it was like, God, damn this movie.

The whole Tarantino section of like Jesus, like, this is not enjoyable for me at all anymore.

It did not age well for me.

The other it is hard with him in it, particularly with such a prominent role saying the N word oh so much, and it's like, did you really have to do that?

It's so indulgent.

There were like I could we could do an entire episode of his indulgences that like his whole like Australian accent work in Jango on Chanin.

I was like, Jesus, dude, that could be its own film, regret the entire thing.

The other one of the other things that I was a huge fan of when I first started film school was Trauma.

The Trauma movies.

Sure, oh my god.

I watched all the Trauma movies and was like all my friends were really into them at the time, and I was.

Like Toxic Avenger, Oh god.

Starsha, Kabuki Man, fucking like rabid Grannies.

Like, well, you don't like those movies anymore.

Class of newkemb High, which I actually think that might I should rewatch Class of newcomb Hie.

I need to.

I haven't like Tromeo and Juliet.

I haven't seen a lot of these movies, but I'm very well aware of that.

Well, for people who don't know Trauma was the is is continues to be this like you know, it's like a production company.

It's a film distribution company that's run by Lloyd Kaufman.

It was this very charismatic, like classic weirdo and he made all these like, you know, sort of exploitation weird horror comedy horror films, you know, but they were like when you're like a baby cinema file slash exploitation head and you're like kind of dipping your toe into the world of like cult movies, you will be introduced to trauma.

Like trauma is like very easy.

It's like right in front of you on the shelf at the Blockbuster.

And I thought they were so weird.

Yeah, and now I'm like, what the fuck You're like, this is my personality.

Like absolutely not not anymore.

And then I mean, I have more, but I'm going to keep it down to three.

Okay, this can be an ongoing segment because I've got.

So many confessions these Sorry, maybe we can play that.

Yeah.

I love Usher, up, I love Usher.

I loved his halftime performance at the Super Bowl.

I feel like people weren't talking about it enough anyways, Okay, you.

And I see completely one hundred and seventy nine percent on ion Usher.

Of course.

I love Usher.

I live in Atlanta.

Yes, and we could actually maybe do Usher movies because wasn't he in a top movies.

The UCU, the Usher Cinematic Universe put it in, put it in the spreadsheet right now?

Was I can't even remember which ones he was in.

Uh, he's in the faculty, and he's in Cheese all that, that's.

Right, faculty, And I was trying to remember the other the comedy.

Okay, total screen time combined of those those movies, I would guess is seven minutes.

But we could do what we could do.

We must, we must.

What the fuck did you wait?

Did you know?

Lloyd Kaufman, the founder of Trauma Films, was the production manager on Louis Mal's nineteen eighty one classic My Dinner with Andre.

Wow, isn't that astounding?

That is astounding?

And then he just like pedaled trash for the rest of his life, which is fine.

It's fine to be a trash pedler.

But so so let's find a But the last thing I will say is that the last selection for my film regret is every Todds Salons movie after Welcome to the Dollhouse.

Oh, even Happiness, especially happiness, Like I like happiness, but it does pleasant.

It's unpleasant and very unpleasant.

And that's it.

It's not I don't have a problem with the movies themselves in that I don't think it's not because I think they're bad.

It's not that I think that they're not, you know, acted well, or the they're just it's too hard.

Yeah, No, I totally get that.

I think as you get older, you when you're younger, you're like, I have to like this, like not just like appreciate it, but like I have to like this, And as you get older, you're like, I don't have to like this.

I don't have to watch this.

You know, there's something I will say, There's something a little bit lighter about Welcome to the Dollhouse.

I think Welcome to the Dollhouse is another brilliant movie on like the scale of like Ghost World, like completely gets it and nails like every nuance and I and I love that movie one hundred and seventy nine percent.

But the rest of his philmography just gets so bleak, and I'm like, I can't pretend to love watching these movies anymore.

I just can't do it.

But I respect him as a filmmaker.

He's great.

I sort of feel that way about Michael heineke Yes films at a certain point, I'm like, I think I've seen all of his movies, but if he came out with another one, I'm like, I don't need to I need to.

I don't need to run up.

Yeah, I know.

Anyway, So that's mine.

What are your confessions film?

So this is more this is not okay.

So this is a little out of left field.

But I've started collecting VHS tapes sure which might be featured in something we do in the future.

But I was at a flea market up in Detroit Lakes Mine way up north, and I bought Austin Powers International Man of Mystery on VHS.

Okay, and the guy I was buying it from goes can I interest you in a full size cutout of Austin Powers?

And he has a full size Austin Power is like him being like yeah, baby, and it's like full human cardboard cutout.

It was for fifty bucks and I looked at it and I thought, this, if I put this in my basement, it's going to startle me every single day, much like you're a Lenda Lawn startles me in the background of your zoom when it makes an appear.

Exactly, so does anybody that stays the night of my house.

But yes, and so I said no, but I regret that.

I wish I'd bought that Austin Powers life size cut out.

It would have been so fun.

And it's like, how where else could I find something like that, like except at a flea market up in northern Minnesota.

You know, Well, there's.

Always going to be like the one that got away in this way, yeah.

The one that got to wait truly.

Yeah.

And then kind of to your similar thing where you're talking about Todd Solan's movies, I sort of wish I hadn't spent so much time so much of my film youth only watching really painful art house movies and being like, this is the only movie I like to watch, you know, and in particular I like some of his movies now, but my world was totally filled with harmony, Krene I was watching.

I went and saw Trash Humpers in theaters and was like, it's brilliant, best movie of the year.

I saw Julian, you know, Julian Donkey Boy is really unpleasant, you know, even Gummo, which I like Gummo, and I think it's an impressive film and really important.

What a what a really dark film to watch?

You know, and I might regret is that I spent so much time watching movies like that, like all the time, and I feel like I felt like, this is what being a true film fan, yes, is, is watching these depraved, difficult, painful, unpleasant films.

Yes, And that is not you don't That doesn't mean just because you don't like those movies doesn't make you a bad film fan.

You know.

I think that if we were to come up with the director's list of like who are the top directors for the shithead phase, which I feel like we need, we need to like trademark.

The ultimate Shitthead Lists, the Shithead List.

So this is again for people who are not familiar.

This is like this constant running theme for Casey and I when we talk about being young cinophiles who were insufferable and only watch like extremely like challenging things, And this is I think Harmony Kren has got to be like number one or number two on that list absolutely besides like Lars von Trier or it was the other one.

I was gonna say, Lars von Trier is also on that list.

I would put Todd Salons on that line.

Yeah, I would.

I would too.

I mean I'd even throw in a little Pasolini.

Not gonna lie.

But it's like the the thing about Harmony Karen is like to me, you were like basically like I'm an Edgeward by like watching all of these Harmony Krenn movies, and I was too.

I mean I watched.

I mean, I'm not gonna lie, dude, I bought I just bought Gummo on Blu ray on Criteria.

Yeah, like because I had I think that's.

The one in for That's the one I would watch again.

Yeah, but I watched.

I must have watched Gummo ten times with my friends, you know, those two like little kids in the junkyard saying the most disgusting things.

We real look obsessed with those kids.

And but at the same time, you know, there were yeah, there was like stuff that I just couldn't watch.

I wanted to watch trash Humpers, and I was like, I don't know, that is one of the most depraved trailers I've ever seen in my life.

I saw it in theaters and Harmony Kreen spoke afterwards.

There was a uh trash can outside that said please feel free to hump so people were like going up and humping this trash can mean?

Okay, now do I think God's brilliant?

I gotta watch it.

I gotta finally watch trash Humpers.

For those who don't know, it's it's about like degenerate eighty year olds.

What they're played by like young people with old people makeup on and it's shot on a VHS tape and it is violent and difficult to watch.

The VHS of it made it disgusting to me.

Like I remember seeing the trailer and just like this, like, you gotta watch trailer for trash Humpers.

You'll understand what I'm saying.

But it was like, God, it felt like I was watching a snuff movie.

Yeah, totally, That's what it.

Was really like.

And I was like, I don't know if I could watch trash Humpers, but I mean, I will say that I saw spring Breakers and loved it.

I I love spring Breakers too.

That felt like he shifted a little.

Bit, Yeah, that one, but that dare I say it was a little bit more whimsical than some of this.

It was a little bit more whimsical, had a little bit more hope at the end because some of his movies just like are bleak.

Yeah, although I will literally literally never get the image of Gucci Mane from spring Breakers out of my head.

Sure like ones a particular scene to the point where every time I see Gucci main like Gucci Maine performed at the Hawks game that I was at once and I was like, I can't.

He looks good.

He's lost a lot.

Oh yeah, I mean maybe he went to Camp Hope.

Who the fuck went to Camp Hope?

But he his one.

Cameo in spring Breakers grossed me out so bad that I can't.

Yeah, and he's upsetting and he's mister z Owe six.

I live in Zone six, So I was like, how can I not, you know, appreciate my representative if you're in Atlanta, if you know, you know this is an Atlanta thing.

He's mister Zone six.

I can't because of spring Breakers.

It just grossed me out too much.

Yeah, so I hear that it's gross.

It's a very icky movie.

I remember going to spring Breakers and I remember looking at the theater and it was like all sixteen year old boys and I was like, oh, these boys about to be very disappointed.

I feel like they thought they were gonna see a lot more, you know, boobs and stuff.

Oh, I went to see spring Breakers in the theater with my friendship Hope.

We went to uh what is that this?

We went to the movie theater at cent Tree City Mall, Westfield Centry City and we went at like nine pm or something like that on like o's.

A good movie theater yea, And uh, I.

Swear to god, it was like us and like machine gun Kelly and his girlfriend.

He was like some fucking degenerate dude with like face tattoos and his girlfriend and uh, they left, but Chip and I stayed and we laughed so hard, like we were laughing so fucking hard, and we were the only people in the movie theater.

And I don't know why.

I was just like tickled by spray Breakers.

But anyway, check out my shorts.

All right, Well, Milly, we got to move on, got to got to onto.

Employees picks film recommendations based on the theme of this discussion.

What do you got for us this week?

Well, I mean I would be remiss if I didn't.

I mean, I've mentioned Little Darlings.

That's my personal favorite camp movie.

Little Darlings starring Tatam O'Neill and Christie mc nicol.

Very great camp film from the early eighties.

I'm trying to not be completely obvious because I feel like telling people to watch True Beverly Hills.

But everybody has seen True Beverly Hills.

It's a fun one though.

Yeah, I know I'm gonna recommend this and you're gonna laugh.

I think in this movie I saw in the movie theater.

Actually, I did see this at I did see this in a first run movie theater.

I saw this at the Dollar movie theater in my town, Blackwell Cinema.

I went with my neighbors and it's a nineteen eighty seven American comedy film called Ernest Goes to Camp.

I love this choice.

I've seen this movie.

I used to love the Earnest movies.

Listen, this was maybe one of the last ones that made it to the theaters.

Yeah, possibly, yeah.

I I feel like there has been sort of a examination about Jim Varney over the years, like people have begun to kind of like maybe it's a pewee thing.

Maybe it's a pewee thing where people are like, what's up with Ernest?

Who is this earnest guy?

Who?

What do we know about him?

And I feel like somebody on my Instagram pulled up some like really old picture of him from the seventies and he looked unreal, Like he looked he had like feathered hair and he was like super hot, and I was just like, that's Earnest.

There's and the thing about Ernest Goes to Camp is that there's like there's actually kind of a lot tucked into that story, which is really weird.

Like I'm like, oh, this is actually kind of a complex little story even though there's just like buffoonery happening.

Yes, I have not seen that movie a long Oh.

Yeah, that's part of why I recommended it is because I want to watch it again too.

So I think we should strap in and do you know some some reavowals of the Earnest cinematic universe the East.

I would love that.

I my favorite Ernest was Ernest Halloween.

Ernest Scared Stupid is what it's called?

Um, and uh, maybe we could do that in the month of October.

I don't know, just putting that out there, Hey, do we needed it?

We should dedicate an episode to Ernest.

We should.

I would be so into that.

How many of them were there?

There's probably like at least four.

Right, I'd like to not cover Arnest Goes to Africa.

I haven't.

I actually haven't seen that.

Let's not do that.

That feels very ominous.

I love this.

I love this as a choice, thank you.

So my choice is, you know, sort of thinking about camp movies and also kind of reclaiming problematic old movies.

I'm going to recommend the nineteen eighty three horror classic sleep Away Camp.

Now, this movie is absolutely out rageous.

It is one of the most outraged just movies I've ever seen.

The dialogue is crazy, There's some wonderful lines.

One of my favorites is of course, she's a real carpenter's dream, flat as a board and needs a screw.

Now, this movie is to say it's problematic is an understatement.

It is one of It is incredibly transphobic look through the lens.

Objectively, it is transphobic.

But in recent years it has been sort of reclaimed by the trans community.

I have a lot of friends who trans friends who love this movie, and I would recommend some essays by the couple bj Colangelo and Harmony Colangelo in Bjay's article going back to sleep Away Camp, revisiting revisiting the problematic classic.

They say sleep Away Camp is terrible transgender representation, Yes, but it's an incredible metaphor about how forcing gender roles onto someone that doesn't align with who they are is fucking dangerous.

And then you can also read Harmony Colangelo's article the transgender defense of Angela Baker in sleep Away Camp.

Now, I think that the reclamation and the reevaluation of previously hurtful or painful art to marginalize communities like the trans community.

I think that reclamation is kind of a beautiful act to be able to make something your own after it was used against you.

And I think the reevaluation of this movie is very fascinating, and I think it does elevate it to a higher maybe status than the filmmakers originally intended.

But if that's something you don't feel like engaging with intellectually or emotionally, like doing homework to watch a very silly, out of control movie, then I totally understand if you don't want to engage with it in that way.

But I'm I'm recommending this movie sort of through the lens of reclamation by the trans community because I do sort of think that's kind of a beautiful act in and of itself.

But if you don't feel like doing a bunch of homework to watch this movie, I understand.

But it is a fun, wacky movie and in terms of camp classics, I do sort of hold it up high.

So it's a fun party watch too, like to watch with other people because it is truly wild.

It is a truly wild movie.

Yeah.

So there was one movie that I we had planned on covering on I saw what You did that I decided to pull back on in it a sleepway camp because I just did not feel like I was I should be having that conversation you know.

There It just felt like this moment where I was like, oh, we were talking about something.

I don't know, it was like horror movies or like some surprise endings or something like that.

And I pitched it and we were gonna it was on the schedule for a long time, and then like as it got closer, I was like, you know what, I don't know if I'm if I'm equipped for this, Like I don't know if I can do this, and I mean it just didn't feel like my place to have that discussion.

So we just decided not to, but it's like, you know, as a movie, as like a text or whatever, it is like very interesting.

And I do think it's interesting too that like, because I feel like the horror genre in particular is like it has this like it's like a there's like this sort of bandwidth for queer story and queer like I don't know, identification or sort of like like people have like I think, I would say more than any other genre than maybe like science fiction, that there's a spectrum of opinions on some of these movies as having queer tellings or like queer readings, and so I don't know, I mean, it's just interesting that a movie like that exists to have conversations in that way.

Yes, yeah, absolutely, I think you should watch it and then you should read about it because there's so many conversations about it online and you know, yeah, there's a lot more knowledgeable academics and writers on this subject that talk about it, like the essays I said.

But it's it also feels like Sleepway Camp was inspirational to wet hot American Summer.

Yeah, it feels like kind of a one to one in some regards.

Yeah, but yeah, so good pick check out Sleepway Camp nineteen eighty three.

It's definitely worth watching if you don't want to delve into those waters.

That's totally understandable too.

Like we just said, you shouldn't watch movies that you feel are gonna make you uncomfortable, you know, like if you just because people tell you that you should, you know.

So well, that's it, folks, that's it.

Wed.

Wow, another movie under my belt that I had never watched before.

Another peak in a Casey's brain.

What do we call you?

What do we call you?

Last episode?

What was your southern nickname?

Cooter Beefer?

A Beefer?

I say, bride listen.

I love getting Dusty to Jericho.

Dusty, I I love anytime we get to you know, pick your brain apart, because you know, it's like I said, like I don't know different like children and like the movies that they sometimes internalize and watch over and over and over again are very interesting.

And uh yes, it's a nice little peak.

But well, thank you for watching it and going along for the ride.

Of course.

All right, Well that's our show in the future.

If you want to write to us for film advice or if you have film regrets, right into at Dearermovies at exactlyrightmedia dot com.

You can also leave us a voicemail by recording it on your phone and emailing it to that same email address.

Please make it under sixty seconds and please record in a quiet place.

And also, if you are on social media, by chance, we are at Deer Movies I Love You on Instagram and Facebook.

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Please listen to Deer Movies I Love You on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and please rate and review.

The show means a lot.

It does mean a lot.

So let's talk about next week.

We are not here next week.

Do not look for us, for us, but the.

Week after, Casey, what are we doing?

We're doing this is exciting.

We're doing a movie called Remember My Name from nineteen seventy eight, directed by the great Alan Rudolph, and the episode is going to include a conversation that Millie had with Alan Rudolph.

I'm yeah, I'm really excited by this.

My new best friend, Alan Rudolph.

I don't know if you know that he and I are besties.

Actually meet him and his wifes are textings.

Oh his wife just texted me the other day.

Really, oh yeah, because Alan doesn't have he doesn't like use social media or barely looks at his phone.

So it's like, you know, being it's like his wife does all the communications.

Sure, but when I get a text, I know it's from both of them, I think so.

Or when I get a text, I know it's from both of them for the most part, But she just text me.

She's like, how are you doing.

I was like, oh my god, I love this.

We're like friends.

Now we've jumped the barrier to friends.

If you're just po it in and checking in on me.

Love this choice.

So anyway, I can't wait.

I can't wait.

Fabulous.

Well, I'm about to take another crack at my screenplay Panny Raid.

Good luck, Thanks everybody, We'll see you later.

Bye bye.

This has been an exactly right production, hosted by me Milli to Chercho and produced by my co host Casey O'Brien.

This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfocal.

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, our guest booker is Patrick Cottner, and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

Our incredible theme music is by the best man in the entire world, The Softies.

Thank you to our executive producers Karen Kilgareff, Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer and Millie.

To Jericho, we love you, Goodbye.