This is this is a tape.

Deck Podcast.

Welcome back to Lost Light.

I'm Jim.

Joining me, as always, is Caleb.

Oh, thanks for having me, Jim.

Almost to the finish line.

With a special guest of my dog who I I don't know how much of this microphone's going to pick that up and what's going to get noise cancelled, but she's in a mood.

Yeah, who's telling you about yourself?

All right, Caleb, it is.

It is Stranger Things Day it.

Is it?

Is that that's correct?

So man, we, we get our, our grand finale this evening.

And so I just, I wanted to talk to you about some of the open questions that you've got and it's impossible.

I know you, you're on the subreddits, you're lurking in the, the forums.

So I.

Mean and not even really doing Reddit.

I just, I just say stranger things too much throughout the day because TikTok like wants me to see these people's reaction to trailers and theories and a lot of bitching and moaning, if I could be frank.

Anyways, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I guess just I think high level the the the last three episodes that we've had, I think everybody's generally in agreement.

They were a little bit slow, but we're setting up for the grand finale.

So what?

You can't.

They can't all be winners.

I actually didn't feel that in really until I started seeing people saying that and then I was like, yeah, I can see it.

The only time that I was really like feeling it was the Max and Holly scene.

Or I'm like, just run, run to you, to your destinations here.

Or like Max, you couldn't have explained this on the walk.

You have to stop when you're 20 feet away from, you know, returning to your body.

But yeah, I I really enjoyed them.

I, yes, I, I enjoy them as well.

I think it, but I, I do think it was a little slower, but I think that's the, the appropriate pace for what we had going on.

And there were, we had our moments of action.

So I'm not, I'm not a complaint.

Yeah, I I think we learned a good bit.

Yeah, yeah.

In these episodes.

And sometimes, you know, they got to just tell you these things, and that slows it down, Yeah.

All right, Caleb, I got my notepad and my digital notepad here.

What, what open questions do you have about about what may or may not happen in the finale?

I think we it's always been an open question if somebody's going to die.

Yeah.

I mean, so, yeah, besides just people dying, other than maybe like and maybe the L, the 11 and Collie like pact that was made, that's an open question.

What's, what's Collie's like end goal here?

What, what does 11 choose to do?

Like, I mean, how do they end up?

I know they're they're Beanstalk plan, but how does that it's going to go wrong somewhere along the way?

And like how did, what's going to go wrong and how are they going to get around it?

And really like, my biggest question is what's going like what's going on with the mind flare?

We've seen the the, the smoke dust stuff a couple times already.

So yeah, I mean, how do they save these kids?

But.

So I think right in addition to that, what's what's in the silver briefcase?

Yep, true.

And I think I'm Derek, I, I think is, I think is sort of up for grabs on if he's bought in or not because I, he, he's acting like he's bought in, but I, I don't know.

So Derek is open question for me and let's see what else did I, I don't know.

I think that's the big ones for me covers everything.

Oh, I I guess just sort of general curiosity about the creation of the exotic matter.

Yeah.

Because we don't really don't really have a lot of good understanding for how it came to be and how it came to exist in the Upside Down, but we have a general idea of what it's doing, just not how it got there.

OK.

So I I go ahead and touch on one of our questions with with that.

I think that's what was in the briefcase.

OK.

I mean, the other possibility was that it was like the mind flare somehow.

But.

I think it's much more likely that it's exotic matter and him opening it does something to it and he's like transported to the abyss, but who knows.

See, I don't all right.

So, so there's several things here that I think all sort of tie together because we've got the exotic matter, we've got the silver briefcase, and then I sort of then tie that into the 11 and Kali pact because number one, I so starting at the very end of that chain, I don't think blood transfusions actually are how the kids were created.

It's a theory that Kali has based on how Doctor K is treating her because Doctor K thinks he can revive this, she can revive this thing and get these, get more kids with superpowers by doing blood transfusions from Kali.

We don't know that 100% that that's how 11 and the other kids were created.

Yeah, that's, I mean we're, that's just her version of how how that was done.

Yeah.

I mean, I, I could, I could get with that.

I also could, could believe that that it was true.

So, you know, I could, I could go either way on that all.

Right.

So then if, if I assume that that is not a blood transfusion, there's something else that sort of creates people with powers, the Super soldier serum, if you will, then that thing is in the, the silver briefcase.

And I just the way that it sort of right, the silver briefcase opened this sort of like a, a smoke came out of it.

I assume it's like a refrigerant of some kind.

So I assume it's like a a genetic mutation, something I I'm not.

I'm not betting money on exotic matter existing in the briefcase.

So my my thing is, and I can't say this is all me, this is I've seen some theories that have come across, but I believe them.

I think it it's exact matter in the in the briefcase it transports Henry to to the abyss.

The mind flayer infects him and that's what gives him in the original powers.

And then I think the blood transfusion could be a thing.

The only like strike against that is why wasn't Brenner doing that immediately to Elle when she was the last one left?

Like why wasn't he take it?

I mean maybe he was but just not to the extent that Kali was being like drained right?

But it just seems like if that was if they'd already done it once, why not try it again with your only like living?

Subject yeah.

And my like, one of the things that I have against the the blood transfusion is like, so if Henry was the person that they were getting the blood from, he would have to give.

So like they took so much blood from Kali to try to create one child and they have yet to do it.

They would have to take so much from Henry.

It would be an obscene amount.

And I would think he would be talking about it at this point to like Elle, like, you know.

I mean, the, the one thing I'll say is back in season 4 when we were seeing like the institution or whatever at its height, like those kids were all similar age, but there was also like a progression that like they would oldest to youngest.

So maybe maybe they were all one year apart or something, maybe not that much, but maybe it was a much slowed down process than what like Kay's been doing in the last 14 months or whatever.

You know to maybe she maybe she just was accelerating it way too much, not letting Kali like heal recharge her battery.

Like I would like to say, you know.

And I'm also, so I'm curious your take on how you reconcile the narrative that we were given of Henry getting pushed into the abyss by 11 and the way that he said like he discovered the mind flayer.

Yeah, that's the, that's the the big strike against the Mind Flayer deal.

And I don't know they'll, they'll have to tell me unless, you know, if the Mind Flayer is in control of when he when he's Vecna, the Mind Flayer is in control.

And that's who you were getting that version from.

You know, it wasn't Henry telling you the real version.

It was Vecna AKA the mind Flayer, you know, through Henry.

So I, I mean, it could very well be.

I could be wrong in the events that we saw in season, because season 4 was pretty like definitive.

He happened upon the the Mind Flayer, and almost like it gave like he gave it purpose, but.

So as as I'm sort of thinking about the we, we were going and looking at these memories and these memories were supposed to be the time that Vecna was introduced to people.

That sort of leads you to believe that that there was some kind of an entity in that suitcase that introduced itself to Henry at that time, Baby Henry.

Yeah, I mean, it would that would just that version of the Mind Flayer infecting Henry would explain like how there's this small group of like a powered individuals and why he was the 1st and everything, but and and maybe also explain how Will was able to get powers from his small interaction with the mind Flayer.

You know, it changes you whatever, but I mean we also points against it.

Billy never showed any kind of powers and he was infected for a good minute so.

Yeah, all right, let's talk, talk.

Let's talk about the kids.

Let's talk about Derek.

If if they're going to get saved by the the Beanstalk plot what they have to climb down the radio tower I guess.

Well, yeah, so I guess real quick, let's let's like refresh on the Beanstalk plot.

Make sure we're on the same page here 'cause I'm kind of drawing a little.

I know the plan is to let the two planes collide.

The listeners can't see me, but I'm pushing my hands together.

And then Hopper and 11 and I guess Kali are going to and Will maybe are going to go and fight Vecna.

Kill Vecna, and then what?

Blow up the antimatter or Yeah.

Or is killing Vecna disconnecting the kids, killing Vecna?

Stop the man we should have.

It's so, yeah, they, they, the, the Beanstalk radio antenna pokes through the and this is the thing they didn't, they never really did a great job of just sort of like describing the fact that like, if there is a hard ceiling to the Upside Down, that's compressing, I guess, and the radio antenna is going to smash into that hard ceiling.

And yeah, they're going to fight Vecna.

But then afterwards, Mike's Butthole Surfers album is attached to a bomb that's going to blow up the the bridge completely.

And you just hope that blowing up the bridge means that the two realities don't smash into each other without the bridge.

Right, and can never.

Yeah, reattach to never be rebridged.

So yeah, So what if the way that we have escaped Vecna's memory loops previously is by tracking their own memories?

So if all of these kids, all 12 kids, have to go chase down their memories to escape Vecna without Max to guide them, that seems like it can take a while.

So that's a find some way to force eject them from the Vecna memory world.

Well, I'm wondering if they're if they're going to do like Hopper did with Will back way back in season 1, if they find their physical bodies, if they could just RIP them out of that and that.

Would bring.

Them back, yeah.

I mean, it was kind of different for Max, but they never got the chance to do that with Holly.

But yeah, I mean, if they got to go through all that and get all twelve of these kids on board, then my goodness.

That's gonna take that take a whole lot.

2 hour episode just to do that, yeah.

I do think that none of these children are going to die.

We haven't gotten any deaths this season so far.

I don't think we're going to start with a group of 10 year olds.

That would be nuts.

But I mean Star Wars, we saw that in Episode 3.

I mean, yeah, I think I'm in agreement with you.

I think all the kids end up pulling through.

They, you know, are just pawns.

Doesn't seem right to lose them so, but as long as we're on the topic of deaths, previously we had, we had, said Hopper.

No way.

And me and Steve.

I'm actually going the other way.

I I don't think Steve's dying.

I don't think Hopper's dying.

I don't I think I think Collie's gone.

Whatever the circumstances is with her.

I think she's gone.

I've, I've kind of been saying that I and 1111 might go.

I I don't think will just because they've said his power is like Vecna related.

So I, I also, I mean, it's the foregone conclusion that I think Vecna is going to die if they end this show with just him trapped in the other dimension.

Like what?

I think he's dead.

I, I think, yeah, those, those three are the ones I'm worried about, but I, I don't think anyone else.

OK.

So yeah, so I guess we're immediately getting into the 11 Khali Pact.

So because I don't think it's blood related, I don't think there's any reason for 11 to kill herself to stop the experimentation.

And I think that's going to be something that they find out at the last minute, maybe when it's too late.

But that's so.

And maybe maybe that's like Khali.

Yeah, like, I agree.

I think she could go at any time.

She doesn't even have to sacrifice herself.

She could just be like, no, no, I'm dead because I don't have real superpowers.

Well, OK, so we'll get into a theory on Kali.

I kind of hinted at it in our group chat earlier.

I think Kali might be the mind flayer.

OK.

Just the way she's like pushing 11 to to do this like self sacrifice or whatever.

It seems like the mind Flayer getting her off the board.

You know, whether there is a blood transfusion plan or not.

I think the Mind Flayer getting 11 off the board benefits it if the mind Flayer is still like not just a pawn of of that also hinges that it not being a pawn of Vecna, it being its own deal.

You know.

So I mean, she could just be like possessed by it, or I mean, or not, she could just suck.

Collie's kind of sucked from the beginning.

She, and that's that's where I come down on it, is that she's always been sort of a, a weirdo outsider who has her own like.

Way of trying to deal with her problems and what she thinks are the important problems that need solutions.

They're like she's just sort of focused on this.

I mean she's also had her own friggin trauma worse than Dustin.

I think at this point, seeing a dozen mothers who are all basically going to die because your blood is getting injected into them, that's it's not, you're not going to feel happy about that in any stretch.

So.

Well that's just like the the cherry on top of of a crappy life for Kali.

Like experimented on until however old and then escaping, finding some kind of family with those other like weirdos and then seeing them all killed in front of you.

Then be like experimented on for again for a long time.

Which is kind of that like, right, people, people might say that they're cursed.

She has not.

But I could see that she's like, yeah, we're cursed.

The only way to end the curse is for us to to no longer live.

Well, but probably even going back to season 2 when that episode she was like pushing 11.

I'm not saying she was a Mind Flayer then by any stretch, but she was pushing 11 to use her power like the dark side basically used anger, you know, and 11 didn't like at the end when she's closing the gate at the end of that season, using all her like reserves, she's thinking about Mike and her and Lucas and and their friends and Hopper and like love.

So she's always been like a little bit of AI would say a, you know, a bad influence or darker character.

So I mean, maybe she's not mindful and she's just by any means necessary, you know, anti hero almost.

Yeah.

So we'll find out tonight.

8:00 Netflix.

Yeah, any any other anything else that has piqued your interest in the the TikTok Stranger Things roam?

I mean, other than people like the mental gymnastics people are going through on some of this stuff, which I mean, we could, we can get into it.

But I did see something I didn't see like the Duffer Brothers in an interview speaking these words, but I've seen stuff saying that like they licensed a song, a song that's never been licensed before, a big song.

And a lot of people are saying it's going to be another brick in the wall, which I mean, that would be an awesome moment.

Almost like, I mean maybe not as awesome as Eddie playing Master of Puppets, but if they give us ABA version of another brick in the wall at some point in this man alive my pants.

OK, Yeah, I yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm excited to see where this goes.

I want to see, I want to see Mike and Elle get their waterfall.

You know, I want, I want Steve and Dustin.

I want their friendship to continue for more years.

I don't want this to be the end for them.

Yeah, I mean, I want, I want Vicki and and Robin to get their date at Enzo's.

I want Hopper and Joyce to give their date at Enzo's.

Wouldn't it be awesome if like the end, the the wrap up, you see them both just like having dates at Enzo?

They did not.

Each.

Other.

That that's where like the grand, Yeah, the big end is at Enzo's.

What they did, they did like an ending at a bar.

What, was that, like season 3 or something?

No, yeah.

End of Season 3 where Elle sort of was given the fake name.

So yeah, like, do a little, do a little ending.

Yeah.

Everybody's at Enzo's.

Yeah, just dates.

Everyone's on dates and having fun.

Murray's there serving drinks, you know, serving vodkas.

Nancy.

Nancy by herself, because she doesn't need a man.

No, how about real quick?

How about Joyce?

Never once.

Like I said it before, but didn't care that Jonathan went to the Upside Down, Didn't hug him when they went to go get him just anyways.

Small, small nitpicks.

No parents say they don't have a favorite child.

She definitely does.

She does from day one.

Like that was episode one.

It was like, why haven't you paid attention to your brother?

Yeah, you can't get to work, Jonathan, because I'm working.

Why are you trying to be a a lesser adult?

You're you're the subsidiary adult.

I'm the primary adult from day one.

Never, never cared much for him.

All right, Caleb.

Yeah, I got AI got I I slept like crap last night because my dog wanted too much of the bed, so I got to rest up.

OK, so I can get in.

I can.

I can be locked in at 8:00 PM.

Yes, yes, All right.

Well, 123.

Kilbeck now.