The following is based on a true story.

Sarah burst through the door and she had that familiar energy that always put Mark A.

Little bit on edge.

It was the kind of excitement that meant that she had learned something new today and she couldn't wait to share her superior knowledge.

Mark, she says, you'll never guess what I learned today.

She dropped her purse dramatically on the couch.

She said, did you know that it takes exactly nine impressions of seeing a product before you actually buy it?

I'm sure that you do this whenever you see an ad on social media, but it's nine times, and then that's when you pull the trigger scientific fact that there's actually a lot of research behind it.

Mark looks up from his laptop and he's actually pretty interested because he has found himself trying to avoid buying things on social media for quite a while now.

So he says, really?

That is fascinating.

Nine.

So specifically nine.

And she says, oh, yeah, nine, and get this.

She continued because now she sees that he's engaged.

She's feeling some validation.

She said it also.

It takes nine unhealthy interactions with a spouse before then you're ready to leave the marriage.

And that is another proven fact.

And she says, isn't psychology just amazing?

The research, the data that they have nowadays?

Now, something about the precision of these claims kind of sparked Mark's curiosity.

That does sound interesting.

I don't wanna say here's where he made his mistake, but he said, are you cool if I look it up?

Because I love learning about this kind of research.

So she goes ahead and just waves dismissively.

Go ahead, but you're not gonna find anything Different.

Facts are facts.

Like I always say, facts are facts.

Mark pulls up this new AI bot that he has that is dialed into research, and he starts researching these very things.

So after a few minutes, he told me, in hindsight, he said, I don't know if this was just, I needed to say it because it was the right thing to say, or if I'd had this streak in me that just wanted to somewhat get punished, but he turns back to Sarah.

He has a very thoughtful expression on his face, and he said, so, honey, this is interesting.

I found some really fascinating research, but it turns out that neither one of those specific claims about the number nine are actually supported by research or by scientific evidence.

And Sarah's face immediately shifted, what do you mean?

Do you think I'm lying?

And he said, no, it's not that I just thought this was interesting.

He said, well, for the advertising claim, the research actually shows that it's, it's quite a bit more complex.

There was this influential work by this guy named Michael Naples.

It was back in the late seventies, and it suggested that actually three exposures might be optimal, but the more recent analysis by this.

Researcher named Schmidt had a partner named Eisen.

They found that attitude change actually peaks around 10 exposures, not even nine.

But the whole field has moved away from fixed numbers because it depends on so many variables, which makes sense because we have more opportunity, more access to things, more screens, to which Sarah said that's that's absolutely not true.

That's a hundred percent wrong.

Mark.

Continued gently.

Okay.

This is kind of fascinating except for relationships.

The research on why people staying in unhealthy situations actually focuses more on things like a trauma bond or financial things, investment models that, psychological barriers rather than just tick box of negative experiences.

And then of course, they mentioned DV and survivors making an average of maybe seven attempts to lead.

But even that, and she said, mark, stop it.

Sarah's voice had taken on that to that tone that he knew all too well.

You are wrong.

There are so many more things that involve the number nine.

It.

Obviously is significant.

She said, do you know what else involves in number nine?

Cloud nine.

That's where the expression comes from.

How many lives do cats have?

Nine.

There are nine planets there were before they demoted Pluto.

Nine months of pregnancy.

Nine justices on the Supreme Court.

The whole human experience is actually built around the number nine.

So it makes perfect sense that I'm right, that familiar feeling hit mark's gut like a lead weight.

This the sinking sensation of defeat.

'cause it turns out, and he said, I really should have known better.

Sarah wasn't interested in a conversation about research or learning together.

There was not genuine curiosity.

She had wanted him to accept these facts, then be amazed, and then validate her incessantly and have him acknowledge her superior knowledge.

But if you've ever been in a relationship like this, you know what?

Mark found out it got worse.

You know what, mark, Sarah's voice was now getting pretty, pretty salty.

The very fact that you immediately tried to prove me wrong, that's on you.

That shows your insecurities because you know what, you're scared to admit that your wife knows more than you do, and I always do.

You can't stand it when I'm right about something and you are wrong.

Can you, mark said he felt his chest tighten and he said, Sarah, I I really, I wasn't trying to prove you wrong.

I was just, you are being too sensitive about this.

She said, and if I share anything with you ever, and it's of interest to me and I share it with you, you immediately have to turn to your computer and you try desperately to make me look stupid.

What does that say about you?

Mark said, this is a very familiar script that was playing out.

Sarah's voice grew more agitated and her gestures became more dramatic, and she was building momentum and she was approaching that amygdala hijack where Mark knew at that point that there is nothing that he can do soon.

He knew it was inevitable.

He would find himself apologizing.

He thought Might as well get to it.

Sarah, I, uh, I'm so sorry.

You're, you know what?

You're absolutely right.

I should have just listened.

I don't know, because you really are smart and I just, I don't think I appreciate that enough about you.

Sarah's expression softened a little bit.

She said, okay, you're not just saying that because you think you're in trouble.

And he said, no, no, I really mean it.

She said, okay, thank you.

That's, that is all that I really wanted was for you to acknowledge that I actually know things that you don't.

But internally, mark said that he was screaming, why do I even try to have these conversations with her anymore?

He filed this experience away as yet.

Just another lesson.

Say nothing at all.

Just nod and smile.

Smile and wave.

Boys, as he had heard, the penguins of Madagascar say themselves and agree, it was safer that way.

Now the story unfortunately doesn't even end here.

Later that afternoon, mark said he stepped outside to get a little bit of fresh air, found his neighbor, Jim, watering plants in the front yard.

Hey, mark.

Jim called out.

He looked like somebody stole your lunch money.

Everything okay?

Mark hesitated.

How do you explain this?

Well, it's the, my wife told me that it takes nine impressions before you purchase something and then, well, it's kind of complicated.

So Mark tried that and Jim looked puzzled and he shrugged and he said, lemme give you a little advice.

We all have little disagreements sometimes in our marriage, and I'm sure that it was just a big misunderstanding.

You know what you should do?

Go on in there and explain to her that she must have misunderstood you.

Mark's internal response was immediate and definitive.

Are you crazy?

And that is the last thing that I'm gonna do.

What Jim and most people don't understand and these types of relationships, is this was not about a simple disagreement over stats.

This was a pattern.

And welcome everybody to another episode of Death by a thousand Cuts.

There's a ancient Chinese torture method called Lean Chi, also known as death by a thousand cuts.

And what it involved was inflicting numerous small little wounds that individually wouldn't be fatal, but you put 'em all together and it would slowly drain the life from the victim.

Now, an emotionally abusive relationships, the same principle applies, and it's not usually one dramatic, obvious incident that destroys somebody's sense of self.

It's this accumulation of hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of these small moments like this one 'cause Mark.

What he found was each time he shared genuine curiosity or knowledge only to be shut down and made to feel wrong for his thinking.

Each time his attempted intellectual connection was reframed as an attack on Sarah's intelligence.

And each time that he ended up apologizing for these things that he didn't do, these crimes he really didn't commit.

Each time he learned that sharing his thoughts wasn't safe.

One cut.

Hey, you're too sensitive.

Here comes another cut.

You can't stand when I'm right, can you?

It's another cut.

You're insecure and another you don't appreciate me and another you are always wrong and I am right.

And individually, these might seem like relationship friction, but when they happen repeatedly in response to normal human conversations, they do start to create a pattern of emotional erosion to the relationship because the victim learns to self silence.

To second guess their own perceptions, and maybe even worse, is to betray their own self to apologize for their own thoughts.

Mark's instinct eventually developed into this, say nothing at all and not as a form of weakness, but it becomes survival because when genuine engagement consistently results in being made to feel wrong or less than, or something's wrong with him, then the logical response is to stop engaging.

Today we're gonna talk about cuts, the emotional kind.

'cause it's fascinating that these seemingly insignificant small interactions built up over time can truly accumulate into something devastating and rob you of your entire sense of self.

So we're gonna talk about that and so much more coming up after Riley Hope's amazing song, not My Job.

And I hope you'll go check that out wherever you download music care of you.

Hey everybody.

Welcome to another episode of Waking Up the Narcissism.

This is episode nine of The Death by a Thousand Cut series.

I'm your host, Tony Obba.

I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist.

Please go follow me.

At Virtual Couch on Instagram or at Virtual couch on TikTok or Tony over Bay Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist on Facebook, go check out my website, tony over bay.com.

Sign up for the newsletter and you'll get all the information you need to know on upcoming courses and live question and answers that are happening on TikTok on Instagram.

And my friend Julie De Jesus and I are hosting a cruise, like on a boat, on the water.

We're gonna be talking about mental health and resilience and emotional intelligence.

And if you find me there, I'll answer every marriage question that you've ever had or individual question.

I'm also gonna make an attempt of my personal record of six molten lava chocolate cakes in one, one evening.

So I think I can, I think I can take that down.

You'll find more information about that in, in the show notes and also on some social media posts as well.

So I would love to see you there and stay tuned.

At the end of today's episode, I dip my toes in the water of a little bit of a meditation exercise about the content that we're gonna cover today.

And if you have your own Death by a thousand cut story, please email me through my website@tonyoverbay.com.

I would love to, to share it on an upcoming episode, or it might even just feel therapeutic to, to get it out there.

So even if you don't want it shared, but you want to send it to me, I would be honored to read it.

I wanna start with an email today, and this is gonna set the, the stage even more about these Death by a thousand Cuts episodes and the reason why we're doing a ninth iteration of them.

The email says, hi Tony.

You have no idea how much I appreciate your death by a thousand Cuts episode.

I've listened to all of them multiple times, and I've forwarded them to people close to me, and that has been so helpful for the people who I now know truly care about me and are trying to grasp what I've been going through.

I've also made the mistake of sending them to people who I hoped would understand only to receive responses like, okay, don't you think that's a little bit dramatic to put all these things on a podcast episode just so this guy can get some attention?

Everybody does little things that annoy each other.

She said, that was from somebody that I always thought had my back.

But that very comment caused me to look back over our friendship.

And sure enough, I realized I was there for her when she needed me, but I can't say that she's truly ever been there for me.

But for the people who care, these episodes have helped them realize that the things I've been dealing with, things that might seem small or insignificant on their own, have been slowly killing me from the inside.

Listening to one of your early death by a thousand cuts was the first time I felt truly validated or I think seen is the current mental health word.

They helped me see that I wasn't crazy.

I truly believe that I have worth, I have value, and I no longer need to convince my now ex of that because that was one of the main things that was causing me to feel like I had no worth trying to make him see that I mattered, that my opinions mattered, and that it's okay for two people to have different thoughts and feelings and experiences and dreams.

That wasn't healthy.

It was a waste of, as you say, Tony, my emotional calories.

I finally understand what you mean when you say that.

Every interaction is really a chance for me to confront myself.

I can now see what is a me thing and what is a them thing, and I honestly appreciate the me things because I can work on those for me.

And what's even more freeing, that's where it ends.

I don't have to take care of his emotions.

Taking blame for something to keep the peace one minute and then literally the next minute have to praise him for how he would never do what I just owned up to, that I only owned up to so that he wouldn't rage or disengage and then he would expect me to praise him for being so self-aware.

And since I'm praising him, he was sure that I probably would want to have sex with him and the cycle would go on and on and on.

I don't need the other person to get it anymore.

I don't need them to get me anymore because I get me.

I get it.

Would it be great if they did?

Of course.

But I'm now finding myself surrounded more and more by people who actually want to understand me, who care about getting to know me, and something wild is happening.

What you call pathological kindness, it's losing the pathological part.

Thank you.

Tony.

Here's to many more.

Death by a thousand cuts episodes.

I hope they keep reaching the women and men.

Now that I'm out of my marriage and I'm not consumed by trying to figure out what's wrong with me, I now see that my brother also a pathologically kind human, is in a similar marriage that I was in.

And my heart goes out to the guys trying to navigate these relationships because he's a big, strong guy, so nobody believes him.

But I hope these episodes continue to find people who are stuck in narcissistic or emotionally immature relationships, people who don't yet know their own worth.

'cause I promise that worth is in there.

That email is exactly why we're here, because somewhere out there, somebody is standing in their kitchen wondering why a simple conversation about statistics left them feeling defeated and confused.

Somebody is learning to stay quiet rather than to engage.

And somebody unfortunately is apologizing for the things that they didn't do to try to keep the peace.

So today we're gonna explore a lot of these seemingly minor interactions and the damage that they create, and most importantly, how to recognize when you are being slowly cut to pieces by a thousand small wounds.

So let's start with a doozy.

This person said, when we entered mediation, I was told again that he just wanted to make sure that I was taken care of.

But then he started going through my expenses, line by line, deciding what I could keep spending money on and what I should cut out like he was the judge of my new life.

He tried to base alimony on some of his lowest earning years, not the average of what he consistently made throughout our marriage.

And when we started discussing the debt, I found out that he hadn't even been honest about some of what was owed.

I've been a stay at home mom to our six kids, most of our marriage.

Eventually I got a modest job that barely paid above minimum wage, but I was still proud of myself.

Still though he had a high paying professional job with a lot of flexibility in his schedule, but he expected me to split housework, childcare, and everything 50 50.

And now that we were divorcing, he acted like I was trying to ruin him financially just by asking for what the law allows.

I wasn't trying to take him for everything.

I was just trying to land on my feet, but I could feel it.

The more I tried to advocate for myself, the more he tried to punish me.

These are the stories that just, they just infuriate me.

They really do because it's one of those moments where I just really believe the emotionally immature or the narcissistic trait state or disordered person, they reveal their true colors.

They may say a thing like, I just want what's best for you.

You're the mother of my kids and I don't want this to be difficult.

Those sound great, and those are what would be a wonderful thing to say, but.

That isn't what they truly feel on the inside.

When somebody who has benefited from their spouse's sacrifices the late nights, the diaper changes, the forgotten dreams, the unpaid labor of raising children, and then they just flip that switch the second the marriage ends.

That's not about fairness, that becomes more about control.

He says, I will take care of you, whatever that looks like.

But then he picks apart her finances and then he is dishonest about debt and he low balls alimony based on this cherry picked data that wasn't even what the court factored into the formula.

And then he acts like she's the one that is being unreasonable, trying to take him to the cleaners.

That's not somebody who is trying to take care of somebody.

That's somebody who's trying to win.

And I know what it looks like when somebody truly cares because I get to see this on a daily basis.

I have worked with hundreds of couples that are navigating the challenging waters of a divorce.

I've had, uh, men, and I'm gonna go with the gender stereotype, right?

For this moment.

High earning husbands sit across from me and say, of course I'm gonna take care of her.

She's the mother of my kids.

If I punish her, I punish them.

Why would I do that?

But then I've seen the opposite.

And what's fascinating is each of these people that are saying these things, they're just having their experience.

I get to see a lot of these different experiences.

So I know that it exists because what this opposite looks like, like in this story where the emotionally mature or narcissistic husband says the same things on the surface, I want what's best for her, the kids.

But actions tell a very, very different story because when you intentionally then create a financial hardship for the mother of your children, especially when you know that you're in a far better position financially, you're not prioritizing your kids.

You're trying to punish the person who had the courage to leave you.

You're trying to hurt the one who stopped making your comfort, their full-time job.

And uh, I wanna be clear, this is not just about the good guys versus the bad guys.

This is about emotional maturity because it's about what happens when somebody who has never learned how to sit in discomfort or how to grieve or how to face rejection, or how to handle not getting their way without needing somebody else to pay for it.

Because in, in the emotionally immature mind, every hard moment, everything like this becomes a ero sum game, and there's a winner and a loser.

If she wins, I lose.

If she's right, I must be wrong.

And that cannot happen because the ego of the narcissist or the incredibly emotionally immature partner won't allow it.

So instead of facing their own pain and their insecurities and the unknown, which is uncertain, and that is difficult, they make it about fairness or dignity or the kids, but the truth is about punishment.

If you are, if you're hearing this and it feels way too familiar, I want you to know you are not crazy for wanting basic fairness or things that the law allows.

You're not greedy for asking to be treated with dignity after years of self-sacrifice.

You're not a villain for saying, uh, no.

You don't get to decide what I need or what I deserve anymore, especially when we're no longer married.

You're waking up and you're definitely not alone.

Maybe this is a great time to pitch either my men's emotional Architect's course, reach out to me or my private women's Facebook group.

Reach out to me.

Okay.

The next one, this person said, there was something going on with my brother.

It was a really painful situation that had been weighing on me for a long time and for almost a year, I kept it to myself.

I didn't tell my husband even though we were still technically married and living under the same roof, and the reason I didn't tell him wasn't because I didn't want connection.

It was because I learned over the years seemed to be every time I shared something deeply personal, something vulnerable, something even at times sacred, it would eventually come back to haunt me.

I didn't have anybody else I could talk to at the time, and the weight of carrying this alone just got too heavy.

So I relented, and in a moment of vulnerability and in a moment where I truly hoped he would still get this aha moment, I told him what was going on with my brother.

Sure enough, less than 24 hours later during an argument between my husband and I, he used it as a weapon.

His exact words were, well, you are a bad mom.

The mistakes that your mom made with your brother, oh, you're making the same ones right now with our oldest son, and he is gonna turn out just like your brother.

Probably even worse.

And that was the moment that I realized I hadn't confided in a partner.

I had handed a weapon to somebody who saw pain as leverage.

This one runs deep.

When you are being open and vulnerable to a truly narcissistic or an incredibly emotionally mature person, you are handing them buttons to be pushed.

And I see that so often in this time of emotional vulnerability, when you really hope this could be a connection.

And at times it really feels like it is in that moment.

Because at the core of healthy intimacy between a couple is emotional safety.

It's emotional consistency, it's stability, it's concern, it's caring.

It's the understanding that when you hand somebody your heart, they are not gonna use it as ammo or stomp on it on the ground just because they're upset.

Because that is a form of emotional betrayal.

And what this teaches you is that your deepest wounds aren't safe.

And that changes everything because now you're gonna start to question, well, what can I say?

And then you stop saying anything at all.

That's when isolation sits in where the person who's in one of these narcissistic or emotionally immature or abusive relationships starts to turn inward because they do feel like, what is wrong with me?

They waste so many emotional calories trying to figure out what did I do?

Or could I have said that different?

This is what makes it a cut because it's not just about that one cruel comment, it's about what happens next because then you have to pull back and you armor up and you learn that vulnerability is dangerous and that the one person who should protect you will actually use your story against you.

I'm a huge acceptance and commitment therapy fan, and there's this concept around psychological flexibility of every moment is the first time that you are you.

In that moment you may assume or think it's gonna go a certain way, but you have the psychological flexibility to pivot to make a different choice.

But usually those are making a a choice toward something of value, something that matters and unfortunately that psychological flexibility or that choice point here is that your emotional flexibility will start to shrink 'cause you will.

Realize you don't feel free to show up as yourself.

And I'm a huge differentiation fan.

And there is where we're gonna realize, okay, if I look at that as this is a me thing, I now need to realize that this is not safe.

This is not somebody that I'm going to seek a connection with, or especially not looking for any type of validation.

This is not a safe we, this is a place then where your own me gets erased.

Another example, and if you're new to these Death by a thousand cuts episodes, they may seem a little bit small at times, but they, boy, they add up.

This one is a disagreement about a car, but it's the kind of situation that becomes one of these death by a thousand cuts moments.

And once you hear it, I think you'll see why someone wrote in and said, there was a day when I needed to take one of our kids to an important event.

And it was roughly 10 miles away.

We only had one car.

And so I asked my husband, Hey, can I take the car?

And he immediately shut it down.

He said, oh no, I need to take the car to take one of our other kids to practice.

And then he added almost casually, you guys can ride a bike there.

We got bikes if you want, if you really need to go.

Now, keep in mind the practice that he was referring to was maybe a couple of miles away.

He had options.

But where I needed to go was 10 miles away.

I would be biking with a roughly 10-year-old kid.

So I responded pretty calmly.

Okay, how come?

I'm curious, why aren't you taking the bike?

'cause it's not, it's not that far.

And his reply, and it was delivered without irony.

She said, you don't really expect me to ride a bike and weather this cold, do you?

And she said, it's one of these moments where she couldn't even believe that he was literally saying that it's perfectly fine for his wife and then their 10-year-old to ride bikes for about 10 miles to an appointment.

But for him, that weather was a little bit too much.

This is a masterclass in emotional immaturity because it's not about the car, obviously, it's about whose needs matter.

Uh, it's about the double standard because he immediately decides well, the car is his to use.

Uh, even though both parents needed it, then without hesitation, then he just suggests, Hey, uh, you guys ride your bikes.

And then when it's flipped back on him, now it's outrageous.

He shouldn't have to ride in the cold.

The the message is very clear.

His discomfort matters far more than hers.

And I think there's so many other things at play here, is that he just impulsively is thinking of himself as a good, old, narcissistic person does, or incredibly emotionally mature.

It's the reflexive nature of it.

It's, well, I'm not doing it.

What's so fascinating is this is why that human magnet syndrome exists.

Or most of the narcissistic people or incredibly emotionally mature people find themselves in relationships with somebody who all it takes really is for that narcissist to say, well, I'm not doing it.

And that person, the pathologically kind, the person who's willing to fall on the sword just for the good of the family or whatever that looks like, is gonna say, okay, well I already know how this plays out.

I'll be taking a bike.

Now if she comes home late and, and he's upset about that, well, I had to ride a bike.

Well, okay, well I didn't realize it was so cool.

Why didn't you tell me?

It's one of those where there's not gonna be ownership or accountability, and anything that she is saying at this time is going to be viewed as incorrect.

When he said, you can just bike it just, it so downplays what's actually being asked because it makes it sound kind of simple.

Like she's the one being unreasonable for not wanting to bike 10 miles with a kid in bad weather.

But that is not compromise that he was looking for.

Uh, that is a flat out emotional dismissal, but he disguises it as a suggestion, which is one of the fascinating things with the real narcissistic person.

And I often.

Try to use humor with it, but those are words that, in a sentence can sound somewhat okay or empathetic, but it's the context that matters.

This has moved well past a logistical disagreement.

This has a very much deeper meaning.

Your needs not negotiable.

Mine are not as well.

I'll be doing what I want to do.

I'm gonna throw this out at you, and then you make do with whatever it is that you need to do.

And here's why.

This fits into this death by a thousand cuts model just so clearly to me.

You could explain yourself, you could argue your point, but you already know how it's gonna go.

So what do you do?

You make it work, you bike, you stretch, you sacrifice, you freeze you.

You take your kid, and most likely this person, especially being a 10-year-old, most likely, she made excuses for the husband.

And then I am projecting this, but I would imagine later he's not being very curious even about the appointment, but he might tell her about how amazing he was as a coach with this kid at practice.

So over time you stop asking, you stop expecting fairness, and then you even have to tell yourself that, okay, I guess this, that this isn't the way that real relationships work.

And you start to believe maybe this is what love looks like, but is not.

This is where it gets really difficult.

I highly recommend finding the podcast that I did with my friend Kate Anthony.

I'll put the link in the show notes.

It's the Divorce Survival Guide is the name of her podcast.

But we talk about differentiation and how to show up even in difficult relationships.

So I know that so many people that I'm working with, they're waking up to their own emotional immaturity or the emotional immaturity or narcissistic traits and tendencies in their relationships.

And a lot of people are in a place where they want to figure this out, they wanna work through it, they wanna stay in their relationship.

And Kate and I covered all things about differentiation, and I think we really talked about how to show up better for yourself even in difficult relationships.

Not that we're saying, okay, so buckle up and stay in a unhealthy relationship.

But I will say anytime that I can.

It's maybe a better way to put it that you don't know what you don't know.

You're waking up to this immaturity or narcissistic traits and tendencies and you don't know yet what the relationship is gonna look like, especially if you're able to show up different.

And you're probably gonna go through a period where you want your spouse to maybe listen to some of these episodes as well.

And you guys can both join each other with, we didn't know what we didn't know.

And I, I do wanna jokingly say, and then again, what's that?

It's a unicorn and on top of that is a leprechaun and a pot of gold.

It isn't that, I'm not trying to be that dramatic because the couple's therapist to me does say, we don't know what we don't know, none of us do.

If we're in these emotionally immature relationships, chances are our spouse is incredibly emotionally immature as well.

So I just want you to know I see you and sometimes understanding how to show up better as yourself in a relationship is empowering.

So I'll put the link to that episode with Kate Anthony on the Divorce Survival Guide about all things differentiation in the show notes.

Or you can email me and I'll send you a link back.

The reason I bring up differentiation is because from a differentiation standpoint, in this scenario, this is a chance for you to recognize, okay, my needs do matter to even if nobody else validates them.

Here's another one that has to do with the car.

This one's more about priorities and emotional weight, emotional heaviness.

A listener wrote in and said, because of where I live, I have to schedule doctor's appointments a full year in advance, and I had an upcoming appointment.

I'm rural and the office I use is extremely busy, but my doctor's excellent.

So I plan ahead.

Even up to a year, I put the appointment on my calendar and I put it on my husband's calendar knowing I will need him to watch the kids that day.

So the week before my appointment, his mom starts having car trouble, so he drives her to take a look at cars.

Seems pretty kind of him.

But there's nothing that she likes.

So he keeps searching for her online.

He finds one eventually we're in a bit of a, a jam financially, but he goes ahead and puts a couple of thousand dollars on hold for the car using our credit card without telling me.

Then the day my appointment comes, the one that I'd scheduled a year ago, and he casually says, Hey, I'm heading out to pick up my mom's new car.

And I pause and I say, so I needed the car to go to my appointment.

Well, I guess I'll just have to figure out what to do with the kids.

And he said, yeah, that, that would be great.

And he walks out the door.

Fast forward a few months later, my own car breaks down and I search all over and I find a potential replacement, but the dealership won't come down on price.

And my husband is a negotiator and he is telling me, negotiate harder.

You gotta go in there and negotiate harder, just like I did when I helped my mom get a car.

So eventually I didn't feel like I needed to ask, but I did.

I asked and I said, is there any way that you can step in and talk to the salesperson?

His response, he said, Hey, if you want this car.

You have to show me that you want it, you have to make that deal.

Now, the kicker, the car was gonna actually be in his name from a financial standpoint as well for his mom.

He used our money, he made the time and he made it happen.

So for me it was, Hey, good luck.

Figure it out and you're on your own.

This moment tells such a larger story because at first glance you might think, okay, uh, he just forgot about her appointment and maybe he prioritized his mom.

That's nice and adorable.

But I know that these situations and somebody that's listening to this podcast and writing in to tell this story about, uh, this type of cut, not about a scheduling mistake or it's not about a simple oversight.

This is a pattern of prioritization where one partner's needs are constantly treated as optional, but the others are urgent.

They're non-negotiable.

First off, dismissal of medical needs.

'cause it wasn't like she was just trying to go to brunch with her friends or go to the mall.

This was medically necessary.

It's an annual appointment and it is hard.

I was gonna overuse the, it breaks my heart when.

A spouse where she feels so out on her own that this isn't something that he's being very curious about or prioritizing.

This one, required planning, driving a long time childcare.

It wasn't just inconvenient for her to miss, it was essential for her to go.

It could be devastating to miss.

And yet when this moment arrived, he opted to help his mom buy a car instead.

Even in that very moment, I think an emotionally mature person can say, oh my gosh, I forgot.

Not even a, I wish you would've reminded me or blame shift, but I'm so sorry.

I forgot.

Yeah, I, of course I got the kids and you need to go do what you need to do and I'll make other arrangements for my mom in the car.

The blind spots here that she planned a year in advance.

And she even reminded him and he gave no thought to her need that day.

That isn't forgetfulness.

That becomes a, a devaluation of her and her needs.

And you also see the double standard here because for his mom searches, drives, pays, picks her up for his wife, other, his kids.

You make the deal even though the car was gonna eventually be in his name and he negotiated for a living.

This is classic emotional immaturity because he probably even sees himself as the hero for helping his mom while seeing his wife's needs as extra and something that she really needs to take care of herself.

And I think that's what makes this a larger cut than most.

It's this silent message that says you figure it out because guess what?

She always does, she will figure it out.

And I find that that is something that has been dawning on me more and more over the last, I would say, several months.

I.

Of the things that, that I have not been even aware of myself in my relationship, in my marriage of that, okay, hey, I, I don't have time for that, or I can't take care of that right now, whatever it is.

And then I think, okay, well at least I was able to express myself and I go about my day knowing that, well, who is gonna take care of it?

It's my wife.

She's gonna take care of it.

Because she always does.

And I think one of the reasons why that can hurt the most is these kind of dynamics force a person into emotional self-sufficiency.

It's her husband in this situation who most likely wants more connection and is curious why they aren't closer, is also creating this dynamic in the relationship where she has to be self-sufficient.

Not by choice, but it's by necessity.

And over time then that I'll just handle it.

Response becomes the default until one day you wake up and you realize you're not in a partnership.

You're just roommates running a daycare.

You're in a shared space with somebody.

You keeps taking up all the emotional oxygen.

Now let's jump back into this world of differentiation.

I think this is a moment where somebody can start to recognize their own inherent worth and know it's okay for me to acknowledge I, I wanna be in a relationship where there is mutual reciprocity.

I would even dare I say, like, to be prioritized, my needs matter, even if you don't validate them.

Okay, here's another one.

A listener wrote in and said to me, my soon to be ex, had a signature move, cut people down and then laugh it off.

He'd say something hurtful and biting or just plain rude, and then immediately followed up with a, Hey, geez, I'm just, I'm just teasing.

I'm just joking around.

She said, I watched him do this over and over at friends and coworkers, and especially his family and our family, our kids, me, and what really struck me was how people would give these courtesy laughs.

Like they weren't actually amused, but they just wanted to get outta the moment without making it worse.

Honestly, it blew my mind that he couldn't read the room.

I don't think he realized most people didn't actually find him very funny.

They found him rude.

So Tony, here's my question.

She said, not so much an example, but a reflection.

Why did narcissist or extremely emotionally immature people use passive aggressive humor as a weapon and then hide behind that line that we've all heard before?

It was just a joke.

And most likely I'm gonna end up being told that I'm too sensitive or I don't have a sense of humor.

Lemme tell you why.

It's just a joke.

Is such a.

There was a hall of fame of cuts.

I think this has gotta be one of the top, and it's such a good question.

It's actually one of the more common death by a thousand cuts that I hear, especially in sessions because humor is used.

I love humor.

It is one of my go-to things, but not as a way to passive aggressively and make a point.

It's to try and be hilarious because these jokes are not jokes.

They are veiled aggression wrapped in this plausible deniability.

There's a false mask of humor because I do believe that emotionally mature or narcissistic people, they lack the emotional vocabulary or the security or the humility or any of the, the awareness or the know-how to express their actual feelings.

Things like frustration.

Envy resentment.

So they find what they deem as socially acceptable way is to express that tension usually through sarcasm or mocking, or I would just call it weaponized humor because uh, hey, if you react, you're the one with the problem, right?

It's just a joke.

You're being too sensitive.

Can't take a few yucks.

I'm just teasing.

These aren't neutral statements.

I mean, they're basically gaslighting phrases that subtly communicate Your pain isn't valid.

My behavior's fine.

Now I'm gonna shame you for reacting.

I'm gonna see if I can get everybody else to join in as well.

And I think there's a fascinating psychology behind this humor defense.

Number one, you're avoiding vulnerability because teasing lets people express their real judgments or their discomfort without having to even own it.

'cause if it goes over, people kind of laugh then.

Okay.

That was good.

And then if somebody takes offense, then I was just joking.

There's a, it's a, they win in that scenario.

It's a defense mechanism to avoid looking emotionally exposed.

It's also asserting control because I think passive aggressive humor puts people in a one-up position.

'cause everybody laughs or in the scenario of fake laughs and then they get to feel like they're in control of the room.

They're getting this validation.

And that's what's so fascinating and why I like this one about the fake laughing because the person in their mind, they're just hearing laughter.

It externalizes shame because when you don't laugh, when you call it out now you are the buzz guilt, you're the sensitive one.

You're the problem that shifts the focus off of their inappropriate comments and onto your reaction.

It's a blame shift.

It's more like a shame shift and it goes back into this world of emotional immaturity because then all of a sudden that person feels bad that you called them out.

So now they're gonna deflect that right back onto you and you will take it, you will own it.

You'll apologize if they can stay in it.

I like this example because of this concept of the courtesy laugh.

I've been fascinated by that for a little while now, because a lot of people just smile awkwardly, move on.

But over time, even the courtesy laugh becomes a survival strategy because okay, you stop reacting, you stop calling things out, and eventually you start asking yourself, am I overreacting?

Or is it really that bad?

And you're internally gaslighting yourself.

And so there are multiple reasons.

I think that the courtesy laugh comes out.

One, it's like, okay, I mean, I, I don't wanna be rude.

Ha, I I don't wanna be mean.

And then just to get it over with.

'cause if you don't laugh now, you may face the did did you hear what I said?

Like, see how funny that was?

Or, oh, do you not think that's funny?

Did you get the joke?

Do, do you understand jokes?

I even have to perfect the courtesy laugh.

Have you ever heard a cutting comment followed by him?

Just teasing, and then you still felt hurt?

I, I want you to know that does not make you too sensitive.

It makes you aware.

What is it about that comment that causes me to feel hurt or these feelings?

There's our differentiation moment.

You know, the, this differentiation work teaches us that we can still honor our own internal experience.

Even when somebody else insists it's not valid.

I'm gonna learn about my autonomy even in this interaction or a theoretical connection with this other person, even if they insisted it was a joke.

Because here is the truth.

A joke at your expense isn't very funny if you are the only one who's not laughing, and if somebody consistently jokes in ways that leave you feeling smaller or confused or humiliated.

That's not, that's not a good type of humor.

That's, I'm gonna go back to this em emotional erosion.

It's one, one laugh, one smirk at a time is starting to just eat away at your whole sense of self.

I had put a little bit of a call to action out a while ago when I thought I was gonna cover this and asked for some more examples of this.

So here's some that I think may resonate with many of you.

Oh wow.

You're actually gonna wear that outside.

You are brave.

Now, the impact here, the person instantly feels self-conscious like, oh, I actually thought I looked okay.

Questioning their clothing choices.

And they may, they may change or shrink into themselves for the rest of the day and what they're wearing.

This is criticism.

It is wrapped up in sarcasm.

It appears playful, but it sends a message.

You look so good.

And I'm the one that knows.

How you would look better, what you should look like.

By the way, everybody's gonna notice, and now I get to also say, I warned you.

The person delivering it gets the satisfaction of control, but they don't have to take any accountability for hurting you.

They were just being honest.

Okay.

Another one that I think is so common, geez, calm down.

I was just joking when I said that you're not a great cook.

The listener then is left wondering, is that how they really feel?

But now they also feel guilty for reacting because this is a, I almost look at like a classic one-two punch.

It's a criticism followed by gaslighting.

If you laugh, they win.

If you defend yourself, you are too sensitive.

Either way, they don't have to own what they said.

One that it gets brought up often in therapy is the, you are just like your mother or father, and then, I'm kidding.

I'm kidding.

Unless you think you are.

Deep emotional trigger activated, and now you can't even call it out without looking dramatic.

Narcissists will do these baiting comments.

They say just enough to sting, but they leave themselves an exit.

It's this ramp of plausible deniability.

They throw this comment out and then they pretend that that wasn't, I had no intention of that.

I mean, do, do you not think you're kind of like your dad right there, or, I mean, if you don't, that's okay, but if they, if it hits and they go into this, oh man, am I, and so there's just not anything good.

There's not a good way to.

Communicate when something like that is happening.

Now, if you have a solid sense of self and now we go back into this world of differentiation and you know, I'm, I know the work I've done.

I'm actually not like my father.

Then I can turn it back around, not in a, I turn it back around on them and I, and I showed them.

But more of a, Hey, help me understand what do you mean by that?

I'm curious 'cause I'm good.

90% solid, 10% flexible sense of self.

I'm open to to feedback, but I mean, I don't think that I am, but I would love your feedback.

And then if they tell you, oh well I think that you do these things like him, oh, okay, I appreciate that period.

'cause I don't, but I don't need him to know because I don't need that validation.

This one was one that somebody said that you'd forget your own head if it wasn't attached.

How do you even function in life?

I don't even know how you get around Embarrassment, especially.

If and when, and this one was set in front of others because over time this starts to chip away at confidence.

Might sound like a little teasing, but it is rooted in, uh, almost contempt.

Definitely not connection.

This is the kind of joking that becomes a script where it keeps one person small and the other just looks like the clever, long suffering one.

I mean, man, guys, do you know all the things I have to do to keep this one in order?

Well, I think one more.

Relax.

I only said you talk too much because it's true.

I'm just being honest.

The person starts to silence themselves.

They doubt their own instincts.

To share the phrase, I'm just being honest, is one of the most weaponized phrases used by emotionally immature, narcissistic people as a way to somewhat normalize cruelty.

Hey, I'm just being, somebody needed to tell you.

Now, that's different.

If you have a pickle on your upper lip and the Heathrow airport, hypothetically, and then somebody thinks it's a booger, and thank goodness it's a pickle.

Tell me if that's the case.

But I don't need you to be honest with me.

If you're just being mean.

Honesty without kindness is this cruelty all dressed up in a costume.

And when somebody uses truth to diminish you, they're not being honest.

They're being mean.

They're trying to be controlling.

They're putting themselves in the one up position.

Each of these jokes is like a, a tiny little emotional splinter, and maybe it doesn't cause a complete meltdown in the moment, but over time, they accumulate, just like these cuts do.

They confuse your reality.

They make you question your reactions, and they basically train you to stop expressing your full self and to play small.

So the next time that somebody says it's just a joke, ask yourself this.

Did I think it was, did I feel seen or connected or uplifted, or did I feel small and confused and dismissed?

Now, you are not gonna give them the aha moment or the epiphany, but if we move into full differentiation, that might be a moment where I can say, well, tell me what you thought was funny about that.

I'm curious.

But again, only if you feel like you are in a very good place.

Jokes are supposed to build connection.

They're not supposed to erode your self-worth.

Lemme share a couple more.

Uh, this one might sound a little bit light on the surface, but I think it's a pretty sharp example of how emotionally mature behavior just slowly chips away at somebody's confidence.

And in this scenario, creativity this person wrote, she said, I had an idea I was really excited about.

I was gonna take an old vintage board game, and if anybody else is thinking of Jumanji, I kind of am, but I don't think that this is where she's going with this and turn it into something completely new for our family, but use the board game as something I can build off of.

She said, I'm a creative person, and this just lit up that part of me that loves building something meaningful.

She said, I spent hours researching and figuring out the mechanics and brainstorming how to make it interactive and fun.

I poured myself into this.

A couple of weeks in the kids were asking, okay, is it ready yet?

They were excited and my husband, without missing a beat, says, yeah, do you think you'll ever actually finish it?

I mean, come on.

You don't finish many of the things you start.

Just a little jab.

He said it with a smirk, but she said it landed so hard and she said, here's the part that might sound immature myself, and probably silly to a lot of people, but she said to me, it's a hundred percent real.

I never finished that game.

That comment stung so much that she said, I packed the whole thing away and I haven't touched it since.

And that was over two years ago.

She said, okay, now let's fast forward to another night.

Not long ago, family game time.

Again, a clue comes up that happens to tie into my favorite song at the time, and I love music.

He not so much, he doesn't recognize the song.

So then I sing the chorus, just one line, which is actually the title of the song, and he erupts into this maniacal laughter.

And the kids and I are just sitting there confused and he's gasping for breath between laughs going, you just said the exact same thing in a totally different way.

But it wasn't playful.

It wasn't warm.

It was this performance of, look how ridiculous she is.

And again, I shrank, she said, that's the pattern.

Over time, these moments tell you that your enthusiasm is cringey.

Your creativity is embarrassing.

Your interests are laughable, and little by little you stop showing up.

This is a cut of contempt and it's disguised as humor.

Maybe that's our theme today when he says, do you think you'll ever actually finish that?

Is not a genuinely curious question.

It's not a question of his offering support, not even a neutral question.

It's a dismissal of something deeply personal to her creativity, and this is where I think his immaturity kicks in.

I would imagine he's not the creative type, so then if she's creative, she must think, I'm not that all or nothing, that black or white view.

But creativity, especially for people who identify as people who make things or doers, that's vulnerability right there.

It requires risk to create.

It requires, I still, when I'm putting out podcasts, I, it's creating things that are gonna be out there that people are gonna interact with.

Some people are not very nice.

It requires visibility, it requires vulnerability.

And when you share that part of yourself and somebody responds with mockery and they mask it as concern.

That's a shaming maneuver.

Now all of a sudden, she has to defend something that she doesn't even really believe is true.

She was lit up, she was alive.

She found her values, that one comment dimmed that light.

And it's not because she's too sensitive, it's because he hit something sacred that I would imagine he's done over and over again on the other game.

You just said the same thing in a different way.

Performative humiliation, not private, not funny.

It was a moment where he was mocking and not teasing and it was done in front of the kids.

The goal wasn't to connect it again, no curiosity.

It was to control the emotional tone of the room by making her the punchline.

And when this happens over and over again, when it happens repeatedly, you second guess your natural joy.

You're a spontaneous expressions, your voice.

And in this scenario, probably even her taste in music.

It's so sad when you hear her make these comments like, you know, maybe my excitement is too much.

Or maybe I should just tone it down.

Nope, nope.

Your excitement is what it is, and please do not tone it down.

If we get toned him down, that would probably be a good idea.

Instead of spending time leaning into her values of creativity, now she's trying to figure out, how do I avoid being laughed at?

That is so not connection.

That is survival.

Every time somebody shrinks you in the name of a joke and then you silence yourself afterward, that's not you being sensitive again.

That's you responding to emotional danger.

It's not you overreacting, that's your nervous system doing its job, which means that is not a healthy relationship.

Let's do a couple more because I think this one plays into some deeper things.

During our marriage, my ex would encourage me to take time for myself to go out with friends, enjoy a break.

He always said he supported it, but something was always off.

When I would go out, the second I'd step out, the calls would start, Hey, a quick question about bedtime, or where's the diaper bag?

Or actually, how long do you think you'll be out?

'cause the kids are kind of losing their minds.

It always escalated until I felt guilty, like I was being selfish.

Now, eventually I would cut my night short.

I would come home thinking that I was being helpful, thinking that I was doing what a supportive partner does.

But she said, I now see that it wasn't about support.

It was about control.

He didn't want me gone, not because he missed me, but it disrupted his comfort too much.

He had a very short shelf life of the time that he could spend with our kids.

The same thing would happen to family outings, go to the lake, the park, whatever.

He would grow frustrated if I wasn't ready fast enough, if I wanted to stay for too long.

Once I asked for a few minutes to finish packing snacks and clothes for the kids.

We had several at the time, and he snapped.

Hey, you're the one who was pregnant with him.

You remember this stuff better.

I don't think of him the same way you did.

He used my motherhood as a justification for opting outta the planning, the preparation, and the mental load.

Now we are in mediation for divorce and during mediation, the patterns continue.

He told the mediator, I only deserve $10,000 if he buys me outta the house, because that's what he said.

I contributed to the down payment.

He left out the years of shared bills that I paid, the money that I put toward our mortgage, the health insurance I covered when he was out of work, and the fact that I made significantly less.

But in his mind, none of that matters.

He writes the mortgage check, so it's his house and.

Another listener chimed in, and this was from a group, and they saw that first post, the one I just read, and they said, okay, the going out pattern, same.

He always said, I could go out whenever I wanted.

He totally supported it.

But then I would get texts like, how much longer are you gonna be out?

Or calls about little things that he suddenly couldn't figure out.

It always ended with me cutting my night short.

And I think this was an interesting one.

I will protect the, I wanna say the innocent, but the immature here.

And I remember a woman talking about this and her kid needing clothing and her husband calling and saying, I dunno what to do.

You need to come home.

You need to take care of this.

And I said, what does he do for a living?

And this person has a very difficult job that requires a lot of intelligence, but then he couldn't figure out how to go and look in a different room for a different outfit.

Back to this story though.

This woman would cut her night when this woman would cut her night short.

He would then act confused about why I was upset.

Why wouldn't you wanna be needed by your family?

And then another person said he never remembered the kids' schedules.

One time I had to travel and left everything written out for him.

School pickups, lunches, emergency contacts, and I know that that's gonna resonate for people.

But then she said, and he forgot, both kids, one had to sit sick in the nurse's office because he didn't recognize the school's number, so he didn't answer it.

I had to call the school from out of state to get through to him after I got home.

He complained, man, I didn't get to do anything I wanted.

The kids just kept interrupting me all the time.

Okay, let me do, let's go with one more.

Let's talk about the world of emotional triangulation and the long-term damage that can cause in families.

This person wrote in, my mother-in-law had a very particular kind of manipulative skill she'd cloak criticism in the language of love and concern.

She would tell my children, you know, your mom just loves you so much, and when she just couldn't take care of you when you were little, we would just always step in.

We tried to help.

Sometimes she was just too tired or sometimes she was too sad.

On the surface, it sounds supportive, empathetic even.

But over time, this created a narrative for my kids that I was unstable, unreliable, emotionally weak.

And here's the kicker.

My mother-in-law didn't even live anywhere near us for most of their childhood.

She was rarely around them, but the story she built was so compelling, so repeated, and so full of.

Sweet concern that now as adults, my kids believe that she practically raised them.

This one gets me.

This is one of the most subtle, but I would say most devastating forms of emotional rewriting or confabulation, or creating a new narrative because it hides behind a smile.

Sounds like care.

It uses your name in the same sentence as words such as love, but underneath it plants this message.

Hey, your mom couldn't handle you.

We had to step in.

She really wasn't enough.

This is emotional triangulation with the narcissist or the emotionally immature.

Person.

It's not exactly outright slander.

It's not a hundred percent name calling, but it's this type of suggestive storytelling.

This confabulation this, creating a new narrative in real time, told with warmth designed to undermine your role and then elevate theirs.

The bummer is it works especially on young minds who are still learning how to construct reality.

The kids internalize these messages, even if they don't understand them at the time.

Then by the time they're old enough to question it, that emotional blueprint has been laid.

I would say this is a moment where you stop chasing the narrative, and one of the most unfair but most powerful things to understand is that.

The narcissistic or emotionally Imma mature person is continually creating a new narrative in real time, and it's unfortunate, but as soon as you can accept that they are going to do that, then the fact that they're doing it becomes less important.

When you can stop chasing that narrative, you don't have to rewrite their memories.

You then use each one of these situations to anchor into your own experience, your own truth.

And it might sound harsh, especially when your kids believe something that you know isn't true.

But chasing the validation of your own kids, especially of your narcissistic mother-in-law, trying to get either of them to see it or understand it or validate you, it'll pull you right out of your sense of self into your emotional little kid chair.

Because the truth is, you know who raised your children, you know what you carried emotionally, physically, mentally, financially, you know how present you were, and no amount of softly spoken made up fiction changes that reality.

Just to be clear, when somebody tells your kids a story that subtly paints you as an unstable or incapable or emotionally absent, a parent not support.

That is them cultivating their own image, their image management, they're running their own PR team, and it's a form of covert character assassination.

So what have we learned today?

We've covered a lot of ground, a wide range of examples, and some were subtle, some are more blatant, but all of them fit within this death by a thousand cuts.

We had the story of a creative spark, the dream of a homemade family board game, snuffed out by a single sentence.

Did you think you'll ever actually finish that?

It was a comment that carried so much judgment.

And so much contempt, and it was emotional sabotage that project, the passion behind it.

It was shelved for years, and that's a big cut.

Or the story of the woman who sang the chorus of her favorite song, only to be mocked in front of her kids.

Laughter weaponized to diminish her voice.

Another cut, or people were told that they could go out with friends anytime they wanted, only to be pulled back home with guilt, lace, text and phone calls and framed to support, but they was so deeply rooted in control.

The house just runs better when you're here.

Another cut.

And then this one that we just heard about, a mother-in-law who painted herself as the hero to the grandkids.

It came to help, but when your mom was too tired, we're sad.

This, it's an erasing of a mom's presence in childhood.

It's a reframing of a reality that wasn't even hers to tell.

Another cut.

But remember, here's the thing about all these examples.

They're not just about being too sensitive.

You are not too sensitive.

They're about being repeatedly dismissed and unseen and unheard and unappreciated.

And that slowly erodes your confidence, your sense of self.

It's this reprogramming of reality and this internalized belief that you are too much or you're not enough.

Or both depending on the day and depending on what the mood is of the narcissist.

But take a moment.

You are here, you are listening, you are learning, you're waking up.

So let's talk about that.

Let's talk about the waking up to the narcissistic traits and states and tendencies in your relationships.

And sometimes even in ourselves, that can be very, uh, empowering.

'cause this is not about villainizing others.

It's about you getting a chance to now see more clearly.

And it's about breaking the cycle.

It's about finally being able to say, you know what?

It wasn't me.

It was never just me.

And here's where I wanna offer.

A new lens, something I've been thinking about a lot lately.

It's the idea of polarity.

Polarity is there are these opposite poles.

You can't fully know light without having experienced darkness.

You can't fully appreciate peace until you've lived in some chaos, and that joy feels profound or as profound as it does because you've sat in grief.

And here's, I think the hard part that many of us wish we could just skip to the good stuff.

We want the connection without the contrast.

But life, if we're talking about real rich, emotionally mature life, unfortunately, doesn't work that way.

You know now what manipulation feels like, and that's gonna help you recognize even greater authenticity.

You have felt invisible, and I think that will allow you to feel even more seen when you're in a healthy relationship.

You had to be controlled to be able to value freedom in your relationships.

You were constantly misunderstood to finally desire curiosity over a correction.

And I think that's the gift that is hidden in all of this.

Not that what you went through was fair.

It wasn't, I'm not gonna spiritually bypass your pain.

You were often gaslit, you were manipulated, you were used, you were minimized.

But the fact that you're still here, courageous, curious, and even exhausted and even angry and you can be unsure, but still seeking, wanting to know learning, that's strength, that's actually differentiation in action.

That's psychological flexibility that is rising within you.

That's your authentic self knocking louder than ever.

And, and I think, yeah, it's hard to believe sometimes that healing even is possible or that peace exists and that love can come without conditions.

But let me tell you something that I believe in my core.

The greater your exposure to this emotional chaos, especially now that you're on this side of it, the deeper your capacity is gonna be to feel true peace.

You're not starting from scratch, you're rising from the ashes.

And when you finally find those healthy, reciprocal, mutually curious relationships, one where you're not walking on eggshells and where you're not the emotional translator for everybody in the room, in the family, you know, where you're not managing another person's ego just to keep the peace and keep things calm, that kinda love it.

It's hard to describe it as anything other than it will feel holy.

So keep going, keep waking up.

You're not broken.

You're becoming, it's not too late.

It's not too late to heal.

It's not too late to find real connection.

It's not too late to rewrite your own story, not the facts of what happened, but you'll be able to even change the way you relate to them.

'cause you're gonna make it.

And when you do, it's gonna be very, very powerful.

Let me give you a mindfulness prompt as we wrap things up today.

Call this one the cut and the healing.

So I'd love for you to take a moment, maybe if you're not driving, but if you are by yourself, take a moment and get still.

And if you have a few seconds right now, if you can and you feel safe, close your eyes and let your shoulders drop away from your ears.

And unc unclench your jaw.

And take a slow, deep breath and go in through your nose and hold it there for just a second, and then let it out through your mouth.

Now, bring to mind maybe even one of your own cuts that you've experienced.

I want you to keep breathing in through the nose while I talk about this, and then out through the mouth, you know, maybe it was a sarcastic comment that you heard and through the nose, then out through the mouth.

Or a a look that caused you to feel dismissed or a moment when your voice was silenced.

Just notice it.

You don't have to fix it.

You're not gonna try to relive the pain of it.

Just acknowledge it.

That did happen, and it hurt and continue to breathe through the nose and out through the mouth.

And I would love for you to bring your hand just gently to your chest and then say, either out loud or in your mind, that was not fair, but I'm still here.

Breathe that in and then let it out.

I didn't deserve that, and I'm starting to learn who I am.

Breathe that in and let that out.

I can feel hurt, but I can heal.

Let that land continue to breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth.

You're not the cut, you are the healing.

You are the one who sees it now, and that is everything.

And gimme one more in through the nose and out through the mouth.

When you're ready, just gently bring your attention back to the present moment.

Maybe give your fingers and your toes a wiggle.

Open your eyes if they were closed.

Take one more breath this time just for you.

Thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of Waking Up to Narcissism.

If this resonated with you, if you can think of somebody that might benefit from an episode like this, I hope that you'll send it their way.

Feel free to reach out to me if you have questions or comments or thoughts or your own examples and, and I'll see you next time on waking up to Narcissism.