Warning.

Today's episode contains spoilers to the extent that they can be spoiled for the Avengers doomsday teasers, all of which except for five, the rumored number five, are out now.

So we'll be warned.

Hello.

My name is Jasconcepcion and I'm Rosy Nike and welcome back to x ray Vision, the podcast where we dive to deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics of pop culture.

Coming in from IRA podcast, We're ringing in three episodes week plus news.

Plus news, and in today's episode, well, these have.

Been a lot.

I've been making a lot of news and it is the doomsday trailers.

Yes, guys, it's the rollout that's had the Internet talking over the entirety of the holidays.

Is it good?

Is it bad?

Is it working for you?

Do you care?

Are you excited?

Thoughts coming back?

Are you excited to see in.

The most recent alleged trailer that you will see If you were at the Avatar screenings this week, then you may also get to see a little soue storm name or action.

But we will be breaking them all down.

We're gonna be talking about all reactions the rollout, our theories.

So yeah, let's diving.

Guys, and we go to welcome super producers Joel and Ian to join us for this doomsday deep dive.

Okay, the doomsday trailers, let's discuss first, let's talk about what they are.

There was number one, which I think was the Captain America generated the most ire I think from general fan base.

The one to start with, Well, let's we'll go in we'll go in order.

Yes, maybe that was not the one to start with, but I kind of understand why they did so.

Teaser number one is Steve Rogers.

It is absolutely shot like a cilis and yes we have seen the re edited pharmaceutical cut.

Very good Steve Rogers teaser and it's him married with a baby and his beautifully clean, you know, washed and waxed Triumph motorcycle and Steve picks up the shield, puts down, the baby, gets on the motorcycle, drives away from his beautiful house.

Teaser too Thor praying in the woods to Odin to give him, I guess the Odin power in order to fight one last time to save his daughter who we met during Thor Love and Thunder, and save the world one last time against the villain who we know to be Doctor Jim.

Teaser number three in the X Mansion.

You heard that right in the X Mansion, which is, yeah, electricity's off a little bit of a mess.

Search lights from the sentinels outside pouring through the window.

We hear a narration from Magneto.

Magneto and Charles are super old and they're sitting at a chessboard and they grasp hands.

And then we go to the battle.

Where Scott Summer's Cyclops is in the midst of many sentinels and he takes off his visor to go full power against them, and it is on inspiring site.

T's are four, which is a leak.

Okay, so this is a leak.

This is a leak, folks, Okay, but you can probably see it.

And so if you don't want to know, I guess stop now.

But it's a leak.

We're in some sort of desert ish wasteland.

We see Shurion and Baku.

We hear narration from Obacco basically excuse me, Shury basically talking about the afterlife and what it means to her and to her people.

They meet in the desert name more shake hands with looks like they've put the pass behind them.

As they are going to fight a bigger threat, and they shake hands with Benjamin Groom aka.

The Thing, and at the end we get this tease of Sue walking and name more seeing her and then everything goes black like and allegedly allegedly that's aged teaser, but this one has not been at the cinemas yet, so we cannot confirm.

I don't understand where this well, okay, well we'll just talk about what the rumor is.

The rumor is that read Richard's It's read Richard's focused and he needs to find a way to save Franklin.

That's the rumor teaser.

I'm not even sure I know that where that came from.

To me, we already know that he is worried about Franklin, so it may not seem important to me.

But at the same time, I will say, so far, all.

Of the rumors and leaks, as you know, guys, it's not something we often report on, but they have actually all been absolutely correct to the teasers, which is why we are even bringing them up.

I also want to say, I am realizing guys now a shocking thing, which is Avengers Doomsday, has the same plot as Twilight Breaking Dawn pot two.

It's literally we don't know that, but it's interesting.

Let's wait, wait to lay that out.

Let's let's okay, wait second.

Jason, quickly, let me just ask you, what do you think our odds are of getting a full doomsday trailer that brings all of these together during the Super Bowl.

I'm guessing it's basically one hundred.

Percent one hundred I think the Super Bowl rollout has been, you know, a tried and true Marvel strategy for a long time.

The Avengers, the first of very first Avengers trailer debuted on the Super Bowl.

I assume that he will do that again.

You know, they're basically rerunning the early blueprint for success, which I think is part of why this is divisive.

But I'm excited.

You know, like when the X Men one dropped, we had some internal conversations like is this AI?

Could this possibly really?

Like that's how that's how much?

That's how surreal this is.

You're wondering, like shit, they're really is this really it?

Okay, let's take a quick break.

We'll come back and then we will talk about our reactions to the to the teasers, our reaction to Marvel's rollout strategy.

Our reaction to.

These, I'm gonna put them in quotes, leaks, Marvel's doing this themselves, and.

What we think you know, theories, what do we think they're doing?

Right back after this, Welcome back, Welcome to the programs, Sheer produces Joel and Ian.

How are you?

Yeah, that's good.

I'm excited to talk.

So much, she said, Bitch, I'm not excited.

I'm not exciting.

I'm feeling good.

The hype is building for me.

I'm excited the same same here.

Reactions from you too to the show.

Quick reactions.

Okay, guys, I was in Avatar, Fire and Ash for the Captain America release.

It's in Burbank.

If you've never seen a movie in Burbank, it's my favorite movie town.

I'm gonna be honest.

The reactions there are next level.

They love a movie in Burbank.

They're Marvel obsessives.

So first time on everyone's like, oh, oh is that cap on?

The ear's really excited for whatever reason.

When the baby gets shown, someone behind me said, no, anoxious grown I've heard in a theater in a long time.

This is before Avatar, Fire and Ash, where there would be many groans from the audience.

I okay, I'm excited that we're getting this much insight into the movie, right, like the fact that they want to start releasing trailers now, the fact that we're on this like long haul sort of thing.

But as I was telling Ian yesterday, I'm a little over dad culture.

I'm a little over every man in the MCU has become a father and his whole world is his child.

That's a great story.

It's a beautiful story.

Does it have to be every character's story?

I think, no, no, no, it's not.

Guys I had this is my point.

Every major Avenger has a baby now, Scarlet, which is said every major Avenger baby, Clinton has kids, Thol has kids, Well, Tony has kids.

Every man has aid I can dream it.

I mean, I think, first of all, I okay, no, sorry, continue, but we'll talk about that.

I'm just talking about within the trailers, there's only only.

Oh yeah, it's not been every single one has had it has involved a baby yet, but it hasn't done that yet.

So the trailers fifty percent are and we're coming into Doom.

And the first thing we get of Doom is He's like, look at this child, and I'm like, I get it, Okay, children in the future, being a dad is hard.

I'm just hoping that we're gonna go a different day.

Even in X Men, Charles six Xavier is all of those children's daddies, Like, none of them have parents that love them.

It's just Charles.

So I just on that note, like, I'm really hoping.

You know, what I loved about the original Avengers trilogy of movies was like, oh, wow, you're really seeing a team come together.

You're really seeing how it expands the world.

You're exploring these characters on the periphery that you've sort of started to like.

You know, when we first get Scarlet as a black widow, she's sort of just in the background here and there.

A couple of cool fight scenes.

Now you get a whole rich texture of who this person is.

That's a really he drew me into the Avengers movies as tent poles.

I really need that to happen here, Ian, what are you loving about these first trailers?

Okay, so a few things.

The actual content of the trailers themselves.

You know, Steve Rogers returning was like the worst kept secret ever.

That was like I think a rumored or leaked Or announced like almost a year ago, so like nobody was surprised.

And I went to see Avatar that first week to see this trailer in person, and I kind of regret going to see that one because it was like kind of a nothing burger at the teasers, just like, Okay, he's in the movie, he has a baby.

I think one person in the theater let out like a half hearted like whoo, and then some other people laughed and that was about it.

So it's like, Okay, vibes are like not as high as I would have hoped, but okay, but cool that he's coming back, all right, That's fine.

The second one with Thor, I also agree a little bit of a nothing burger.

But I will say, because we knew he was gonna be in the movie from the set chair announcement, I will say, this does seem like a little bit more of a serious Thor.

I think we're maybe getting like a little odin forced King Thor kind of vibe, which I think is a nice kind of swing back in the right direction.

Because Love and Thunder I really did not like that movie.

I think Taika overdid the comedic aspect of it.

They overinduced on that also, so I think this is kind of leaning back in the right direction for Thor.

So I think this will be an improvement on the characterization.

Chris has talked a lot about wanting to make it, so this was like more in the middle of the old Thor And then what was great about Ragnarok?

So I think you're totally right in this is like a wreck.

It's like a fix.

It's like a fix, which is what Ragnarok was originally, So we can do it again.

Agreed.

And then for the third one, when I first saw that, I was like, Oh, this has to be fake.

This is ai because like the comic accurate cyclops they're doing, they're finally giving James mars and his duo.

Was like, I don't know, this looks too good to be true.

And then when the official one came out, I was like, oh shit, they're cooking.

So that one got me excited.

That one got me excited.

We're gonna see Sentinels, comic accurate cyclops, We're find James marsin finally getting his do love it.

And then the last one that's just classic, like big crossover tent pole like synergy, like seeing these characters interact together on screen that you would never, you know, think would be together.

That's just like the magic of these Marvel movies.

So that also got me excited.

So the last two really, like the hype is starting to build for me.

I'm in like, let's let's get it going.

I wish I had a time machine because like a year is a long time to wait, but let's let's get it.

It's been interesting to me to see.

I agree that the Steve Rodgers one is kind of the weakest, which is probably why they released it first.

It's been kind of like escalating hype index as each of these teasers has come out.

So I think in retrospect that was smart.

And you know, it's a friend of the pod, Peter who's seen our discord.

He was like, this is desperate from Marvel's desperate stuff.

When that was really nice.

I I think we can quibble about the execution, but I have to say I think that this is and I've talked about it before, I think this is both smart and the only thing kind of like the only thing that they really can and should do, which is fix the ending, almost like a meta endgame.

They have to time heist themselves and go back and fix what happened, what went wrong at the end of phase three four and fix it.

Now you know, Kang did not work out for reasons, any reasons kind.

Of beyond people's control.

Right, That was supposed to be the way to tie all of this up, didn't They didn't manage.

To do that.

There was a world's historical pandemic, and other things happened, and so Marvel just kind of like hit yeah, multiple obstacles that they couldn't really predict.

And thus their handoff if we think about this like a relay race, their handoff to the next generation kind of sputtered, like it was spotty at best and never really landed.

And I think the thing that they need to do, and the why I'm fine with the babies is they gotta hand it off to the next generation.

They gotta hand it off.

I love the way to do that.

No, they have to hand it off.

They have to hand it off strong.

They listen, Thor is dead after this period.

But take over this series.

No, it's got me.

I don't think that's the great performers who are prepared to take this over.

Who you are not teeing up to do this?

If we were really interested in the next elevation.

It would be Scarlett Joe hands it, it would be Hailey Steinfeld.

It would be dead Scarlet Joe Hanson.

Who am I thinking the other one?

Florence Florence Peel is Florence and Haley Steinfeld taking the lead.

I'm gonna tell you guys why that's not gonna happen.

It's really simple.

They don't have money.

Here's the reason.

Here's the reason.

It can't be Florence Pure and Hailey Steinfeld.

They bench sixty pounds.

They're not the core heroes in the Marvel universe.

I'm sorry.

One shoots of Bow and Arrow and the other one like can't curl thirties.

Like that'n is fucking no franchising, no, Jason, do you have okay?

Right, I'm bringing down I'm bringing Dad the hammer right.

First of all, First of all, First of all, first yeah, yeah, First of all, Young Avengers isn't happening because there will be a miserings that's gonna happen.

But that's not happening the way they wanted it to because they took too long.

The people got too famous, they asked too much money, and also Disney wants to make money, so it's going back to what he used to do.

I think the reason that this is the plot is because I think this is the same plot that it was gonna be when it was Kang guys.

Kang was going around to collect all the babies to stop the Next Avengers from being made in the future, a version of the Next Avengers that defeats him.

That is essentially why basically the plot of Madam Webb, which is hilarious, but yes, I think that would have already been Kang's plan, and I think they just replaced it with Doom and they're gonna bring in this element Franklin.

But also I just think that the sad truth is that they did not commit to when the Young Avengers could have worked, which was straight after Endgame, when people still cared about those comics.

They were still talking about those as the best comics ever made, which is true, they are some of the best comics ever made.

But the conversation around comics and Marvel the Young Avengers series came out like eleven, twelve, thirteen years ago now, so like it's not even a hot drawer in the way it was that people were talking about I would love to see Hayley and Miss Marvel and all of that as the new core Avengers team.

But sadly, I don't think that's what Disney thinks sells.

So I don't.

But I also don't think that the babies are gonna be the next thing.

I think what Jason is right about is this is the ending.

I think they're rebooting the ending and then we'll get off to that what should have happened.

I hope now they have a plan.

I think.

And by the way, like when I say the babies, I'm not saying like they are all of it.

I am including like Miss Marvel, flor you know, like Florence Pugh.

Yeah, it's aboot for everybody's a handleff because the handoff never worked.

It just didn't happen.

Now, I do think that there's a world in which Disney looks at this and says, you guys had your shot, and maybe we need to keep our options open to go in a different direction.

I think so, and maybe that's the case, but I will say that I think visa visa Kang plan.

I agree it would make sense to map that, but I also think the Russos came in with all the leverage in the world, and my sense of creators coming back with leverage is nobody wants to do the thing that the other guy was going to do.

Nobody.

They always want to be like, well, this is my take on it.

And the Russo's coming back was they came back on their terms.

They did, but at the same time, like the.

Fact that they had major flops.

Yeah, yeah, they had major flops, but like this is this is a getting the band back together and they are a major part of that.

So I do wonder if.

If the Kang plan hasn't changed significantly, I think I think that's why I think this is smart.

That's separate from the this is I think this is smart strategy to reboot the ending.

That's separate and aside from whether the execution as we know of it now with these the teasers that exist, if that has been done well, I would argue that it's like an average would give them a C a C plus at this point.

But I also think a lot of the reaction is people are is jade.

People are jaded, like people are just like DC's coming, they got Sebastian stand now, Marvel's on its ass, like and I just think a lot of that is also, guys, let's not be let's not facility reality.

But I think a lot of that is perception.

It's perception because also, guys, what your people aren't thinking about is like James Gunn has had like a two years of success, Kevin Faige had ten.

Like, let's not pretend that the MCU was not the hit that it was.

The question now that I love that Ian brought up in pre pro and in the stock is like, and Ian talk about this a little, what is the pitch to kids or people in that early twenties who didn't grow up with the X Men series and who you know, maybe weren't even if you're eight, you were born the year End Game was born.

What if your parents aren't into this?

What if you never got into it?

Like, how do you pitch this to make people care?

That was gonna be one of my big questions.

You know, is leaning so heavily into nostalgia for the Infinity saga and these X Men movies, some of which are like twenty years over twenty years old, you know, is that misguided or is that necessary?

Who was really the target audience for that level of nostalgia.

To Rosie's point, you know these movies, if you're in your teens or early twenties, you probably have little connection to some of the these older films or characters.

So I don't know.

I think that is an interesting conundrum that they might be creating for themselves with this really heavy lean into nostalgia with these trailers.

But at the same time, you know, people my age and the diehard MCU fans, we're old enough, we have the money.

That's what they're really after.

We got money to be a hit, say, they need this to be a hit.

So I mean, I think they're trying to appeal to the widest range of Marvel fans possible to get butts in seats because they're desperate for a hit.

I do think the later trailers are going to have the younger generation great characters that we are expecting.

I think I fully expect that to be the case.

Well, I think you've summed up really well, Jason.

Is like these are essentially them pitching us on their pitch for the ending is how it feels, where it's kind of like, hey, look, we are going to bring these guys back.

This is what you're telling us you wanted, let's give this a try.

But I will say I agree.

And the reason that I think my rollout score is a low bit higher, maybe like a C right, or maybe like a B.

Plot, maybe like a B minus or something, because like one.

You can tell I didn't go to college or get any grades, like that's not other grade in England.

But but yeah, like that is to me something that is clearly getting better as the releases go along.

Because actually, as we were talking about Ian's point about how do they.

Appeal, I'm not gonna lie.

I think that the Fantastic four talakan kind of Shuri Wakanda trailer.

I think even if you are not into that shit and.

You don't know who those characters are, if you look at that, you gotta go, what the fuck is that?

Like I need to watch that?

Like who are these characters together?

That's cool?

Like that looks cool.

That one, I think is the freshness and the little bit that might hook someone in who isn't necessarily as excited as we are as seeing Scott Summers, you know kind of do the X Men ninety seven or you know, opening in his kind of dramatic style.

You know, that's a huge strike.

For us, but I'm intrigued that I think they're doing a little better now with the later trailers getting us excited Joel.

When it comes to the fifth trailer, fuck the leaks, fucked Richards.

What would they need to put in that trailer for.

You to get excited and start to be on board about this, Like, what's the trailer they could do that would snowball Joel into Oh maybe this could be good.

As a villain's girly and Marvel has given us some really delicious villains over the years, and I think the big question for everyone is why did it have to be RDJ coming back as Doom.

I was like a little insight into the larger plan.

I want a little of Doom toirl and his cape in his layer, or you know, perhaps him like working over a computer.

You could give me a nineties inspector gave a baby in style moment of like oh yeah, yeah, I just want you know, maybe maybe it's him just putting on the mask and we see a little bit of the face underneath something that just gives me some more insight into doom doom state of mind.

Is he from this universe or not?

I don't answer all the questions obviously, but just one big one that leads me to ask many more questions would be great because you know, I think as we're looking at these trailers, you know, Jason in the group chat was talking about some of his theories for you know, if they're trying to undo what's been done, right, what does that look like?

And Jason, you had this really great theory of like how RDJ was coming back and what they were gonna do with this Doom character.

Do you remember talking about this at all?

So like, obviously we could talk more about Jason's theory later, but it was it was leading me to really consider, like what is the importance within the role out going forward?

And I do think it's I need to know more about Doom and is there stuff you need in the role out going forward to release solidify this film for you?

I think I agree with you, we need some kind of a little bit of Doom.

I don't want them to give away too much too early.

I think they can save some of the bigger Doom reveals for later in the cycle.

But I think just ad little teas or at least just like see the mask or the costume in a little bit fuller sense than we did in the post credit scene from Fantastic Four, just even like a one second flash of it.

I think something like that would be great.

Before we move on to theories and speculations about the rollout, one last thing I want to talk about is the leaks of it all.

And you know, obviously Marvel and Disney have been dealing with leaks for these big Marvel films pretty much for the entire time the franchise has existed.

But this particular strategy with doing these weekly little teaser releases only in theaters I think has created a bigger problem for them that maybe they didn't anticipate, or maybe that they didn't think would be as big of an issue, because a like cell phone footage of the teasers ended up online almost immediately as soon as the first one started showing in theaters, and that's happened consistently.

As we mentioned earlier, all the leaked plot or details of what these teasers would contain ended up being correct for the most part, and there's been a huge influx of AI generated teasers based on those descriptions that ended up being accurate.

So it's like beating out the actual teasers online.

So like Disney, I think kind of created this own problem for themselves by doing this strategy of releasing them exclusively in theaters first, Like, what do you guys think about that?

Because I think that kind of shot themselves in the foot with us.

What's the problem.

Well, I don't understand, though, what the problem?

I guess the problem access to me.

They're not in control of the rollout.

They're getting beat by slop you know.

Yeah, but I don't agree.

Here's my big brain theory.

I think Disney desperately needs, of course Dooms Day to be success, but beyond that, they need to project.

They need to create hype, and they also need to project the perception of hype.

And I think people being jazzed up enough to fit to like risk being thrown out of the theater to film the thing and then to film the trailer and then leak it online, being jazzed up enough to like figure out a workaround to the IP constrictions on various AI sites to create trailers like go out and make trailers that are accurate enough.

I think all of that lends to this feeling of whoa people are excited, like forget what the reaction of Like individual people are Yeah, people are like they can't wait for it, they're excited for They're so excited for it, they're making their own ones, like I've never before heard, Like there's that, you know, we have We've been wondering, like where did this rumor of the read centric leak come from?

I've never seen.

I struggle to remember a time that there's been a like a teaser for a leak, like we're getting a leak about a leak about.

An upcoming leak.

Here's the leak it's gonna like, And all of it feels too strand strategic to me, Like I've never heard that before.

Like I think Disney is playing a part in it.

I actually think Ian you are prescient in seeing that it could become a problem, because I do think this is part of Disney's issues with acquiescing too much to AI.

There was great reporting recently, I believe it was in the Rap I think, but about how these studios had actually been making tons of ad money off the AI ads, and how they'd found loopholes to be able to make money off people making these fake ads.

But those fake ads have decimated people's trust like, this is the thing that I think people can't really consider how quickly we literally all had.

To go in there and go is this AI?

And that's Marvel's biggest trailer.

I think that is an existential problem they are creating for themselves in the future, whether or not it's a problem right now, when their success is going well and people love these trailers and there's a lot of AI trailers that make a lot of money, and people actually have started watching.

Them knowing their AI.

I think that that's its own conversation.

But I do think ian they may have set themselves up here for a problem because this may be a rollout they wanted for this movie, but they may not be happy when people start replicating it with every other rollout that they do.

Then they might start sending out some seasoned desist lets, you know.

I think, particularly when you consider the amount of conversations we've had around the graphics in Marvel films and people wondering like is this AI, and like how clean is this?

And the ethics reports and all of that, you know, I do wonder if having trailers that are indistinguishable from AI, where that leads folks in that conversation to go down the road.

But I yeah, but I also think, like to Jason's point, at this stage in rollout, if people are yapping, like that's kind of the goal, Like we're not selling tickets.

Yeah, the movie is not how very much for you to do, but just to generate conversation, and of course you want that conversation to be positive.

But even if the conversation is just happening, like, that's kind of good enough for where they're at right now.

So I think Disney is happy with the way everything's been going so far, and I think the Super Bowl commercials will sort of be the the first stamp.

I'm like, is this going well or not?

I also will say I think that this before we finish on the rollout.

I also think that right now they're learning from problems they've had before, which is like they either waited too late and then randomly showed too much, or they got people hyped too early but didn't escalate, and we're just showing the same thing again and again.

I think what they're doing here is actually responding to fans, teasing tone actors.

No plot.

Now, we're going to talk about plot after this break when we feel on this but there is no plot currently.

So come back up the break and we will give you all theories, our best theories, starting with Jason's legendary theory.

Kevin Fay, you admit that you're behind the leaks.

Admit it, have mit it, and we're back.

Okay, let's talk about As Rosie mentioned, there's very little plot in these very little other than heroes seeming to unite to take on a major threat who we assumed to be doomed.

Yeah, there appears to be very little in this in these trailers that could tell us anything about anything.

So now let's talk about our theories about what is going on.

Rosie.

You laid out your dads the dad's theory, we'll call it.

I do have the dad's theory, the dad's there kidnapping theory.

The kidnapping theory he wants the babies for some reason he's trying to stop.

I also want to lay out while we were talking about this earlier on and laying out all the different people who have babies, and the fact that all these different people are coming together and read Richard's may be struggling to try and find Franklin, so they have to find other superhero babies to maybe work out how to say, Franklin, that sounds very much to me like a famous movie.

Twilight Breaking Dorm Pot two.

I think this has the same plotline as Twilight Breaking Dorm Pot two.

I think these motherfuckers are getting a giant team together to save a creepy powered baby that's gonna have bad CGI and at the end they're gonna find out the baby can be okay because one of these other superhero babies.

And guess what, that's some Twilight fucking shit, guys.

So that's my current funny theory because I'm like, is this doomsday?

But yeah, probably, I'm saying next Avengers, Ian's gonna touch on some other comic bookie kind of stuff that I talk that we talked about later as well, that we have theories about.

But Jason, lay us out your doom theory because to me, it's the only one that's got me excited yet.

My doom theory is that doctor Doom is the Tony Stark that won Civil War.

So crazy find an alternate dimension.

We find an altered dimension in which you know, Steve and Winner Soldier fail to stop Tony.

Tony maybe goes crazy kills them both and then realizes, you know, I never should have done this.

I never should have assembled the Avengers.

I should I actually should wrap the world in a suit of armor, and not just the world.

I should.

I should once he discovers.

It, there's a multiverse, I should wrap the multiverse.

In a suit of armor.

This brings him into conflict with Thanos, who he defeats somehow and becomes super super super super powerful, and that is who we're fighting.

As for what he's doing, I do kind of like the idea.

I think that he wants to protect the multiverse from threats.

I think he considers Thanos a threat.

I think he would consider other similar power level being s Mephisto, the beyond Er to be a Franklin to be a threat in that way.

And I think that his plan is to kind of like unite the multi verses, remold them in his image, and potentially, if it's anything like Secret Wars, like the most the most recent Secret Wars, then co opt some of these multidimensional versions of characters to be his police force, to kind of like guard his making of reality in that.

With that in mind, I think I am kind of wondering if mutants aren't going to be like the guard like Dooms guard dogs.

It's imperial.

They're getting they're getting wiped out on whatever in whatever dimension is.

But Doom sweeps in and says, I can put a stop to all of this.

I can give you guys.

Freedom and security and safety that you or yourselves are in charge of.

We just need to make sure these guys who create this reality of hugely powerful, artificially intelligent killing machines, we need to make sure that they never rise, that that never happens.

So you're and I think maybe there's a world in which he co opts the X Men to that end.

I think would set up the X Men conflict.

We need to And I think the fact that Xavier and Magneto are so old, like they went back to the og, which I think is absolutely smart.

I think that we are.

My sense is they die in the opening ten minutes of this.

Yeah, like we're gonna, okay, We're gonna watch the Sentinels go fucking ham right on some mutant dimension and they take out Charles and Magneto, and then Doom sweeps in and is.

Like, we're gonna kill Patrick.

What for the third time?

We're gonna make sure this never happens again.

Yes, Charles dies enough times and we're re desensitized to it.

They're like, you know what the deal is, Ylle shows up, we kill him.

That's that's our new relationship.

Yeah, he wheels in and we just snap his neck.

That's what we do, baby.

Snap his neck this time.

Would be funny if he was killed by someone related to Scarlet Witch as well, Like, let's just keep it going.

Maybe Magneto kills him.

Who knows?

I was gonna say.

In regards to that aspect of who is gonna die, Joel, who are you most hoping.

To see finally bite the bullet hair?

I've seen a lot of excitement from women in my lives about maybe seeing Cyclops die again.

People love to see that man die, but some boys love him.

He's a good blue out boy.

You hoping Steve Rodgers is gonna die?

What are your odds on, Joel?

Who's dying?

Who's surviving who?

This is so hard because I don't feel like we've had enough time with hardly anyone to justify like a satisfactory death.

Like I feel like my theory is Helmsworth goes the distance I think Kemsworth is ninety still playing Thor.

I don't think we ever really lose Thor.

You can't kill Look, he's a time king now, but he really needs to be here, I think the only person who really needs But it's too early.

I want another saga of a villain, like I don't want Doomsday to Doom to die because like he's brand new, and I love Doom as a villain.

He's so delicious.

I don't but okay, okay, but it's I'm in the camp.

This is an alternate universe Doom, right and Xat real world Doom is played by a different character.

We've now seen enough different characters, different actors.

So my hope is that rd J Doom dies.

My messy theory is that they're gonna pull like a Wilson Fisk from into the Spider Verse, where like, oh, it seems like he's doing all of these shenanigans because he's evil, but now he just misses his girl.

He's like, my sue is no longer here.

This Sue seems good enough.

I know she's married to a Doude.

She's not sticking with that guy, So maybe I'll come back here and try my luck.

That's kind of what I hope it is because it's a smaller scale event, and that's sort of what I think Marvel is at its peak.

Like, yes, I love Endgame and all the big stuff, but to me, when it's like interpersonal and small, it's when it has the most emotional impact.

So if Tony Stars Doom comes back for Sue, creates a lot of problems and then bites the bullet, I would find that satisfactory.

I like that actually, Joelle, because I think you touch on something that I agree would be very impactful.

And also you make a good point because yeah, Doomsday is an event movie, but Doomsday is the Infinity War to the end Game, right like hypothetically, So I feel like they do need to do more of that character building.

They do need to give us something that's really gonna hit when we then get to that big final season.

Ian, you've been on a crazy comic reading care You've been touching on a lot of the same stuff that I was texting you about.

What are your theories from what you've read and what you've been exploring in that space.

Doomsday and Secret Wars are likely going to adapt a lot of elements from the Jonathan Hickman run Time Runs Out and then Higman's Secret Wars, which came out twenty fifteen.

So Time Runs Out is all about incursions of these different universes colliding, you know, leading to the death of the multiverse.

And the main dilemma is that there's this group of heroes, you know, the Illuminati, which is like Doctor Strange, iron Man, nay More, Beast and some of the smartest characters in the Marvel Universe trying to figure out how to stop this problem of incursions, and eventually they come to the conclusion that it's kind of an user them situation.

They have to make, like a really difficult choice.

It's like a trolley problem situation where the you know, do we sacrifice ourselves to save this other world?

Do we destroy this other world to save ourselves.

So I think that's gonna be kind of one of the main core issues of the film is there's gonna be these incursions between the different worlds X Men universe eight three eight we're in Fantastic four from our eight to two eight excuse means a six one six, there's gonna be some convergence there.

And then I think that will ultimately end up The film will probably ultimately end up with Doom succeeding or our heroes losing and then spurring the creation of Battle World for Secret Wars, which.

We it feels like Secret Wars is gonna be bad a war, okay, And that again I get why they bought back the Russo Brothers for that, because actually, like Infinity War holds up incredibly well for a movie with so many fucking characters, so too lay of how and make us care Ian, do you have any sense post looking at that, because it does feel like time runs out and then we're gonna have a sad and Jason as obviously the inspiration with Secret Wars for the movie, do you feel like you're seeing what you do?

You have any sense of what you think the Disney is gonna keep or get rid of because we all know, like as Jason was talking about, with this huge choice to announce Secret Wars, they're basically redoing the MCU again, right, and we know that at the end of the twenty fifteen Secret Wars, the really fantastic comic basically Doom and Marvel editorially used it to combine the Ultimate Universe and the six one six universe because they wanted Myles to be a main character, right, So, like, who are we feeling like out of this is gonna be getting to stay for the next part.

I think original Avengers are gone.

I think it's I think they're gone.

I think Thor could be.

I think you're onto something Ian a King Thor and Odin maybe he gets to be back with Jane again and they're in Valhalla, but they're still kind of here.

But I think everyone else is gone.

Do you have any strong feelings about that after reading the comics?

Ian, Yeah, yes, I think, and Figy himself has even said after Secret Wars there's probably gonna be some kind of a soft reset or soft reboot to some degree.

I don't think they're gonna fully reboot everything, but I think our main OG six Avengers are likely gonna be done after this, with the exception of maybe Thor, because Hemsworth has said he would play this role forever and he's he seems game, so I could see maybe him still being around.

But yeah, I think the original six are gonna be gone.

I think this is finally like the fifth last hurrah for the Fox X Men people, So they're all gonna be gone.

We're gonna get new We're gonna get new X Men.

For moving forward, I think, to Joelle's point R d J, I don't think is gonna be our forever Doom.

I think he'll be Doomed for Doomsday and Secret Wars.

Beyond that, I think we need to have a new actor in that role because I don't think Doom should be a one and done villain.

He's too iconic, and I think he should be kind of ever present in the background.

Because there's gonna be hopefully, I mean there's gonna be another Fantastic Four movie.

I would like to see them have a story focused on Doom and that interaction between between them.

Also some other characters that I think this will be like kind of a last hurrah for.

I really think Toby Maguire is going to be in either Doomsday or Secret Wars, and I think that will also be like a big, a last hurrah for him.

I think we won't see him anymore after this.

So and I think they're going to focus on a lot of the you know, second generation characters like we were talking about.

I think the Thunderbolts, like some of those characters are going to continue to persist, you know, Shuri's black panther, or maybe we'll get you know, Tatala Junior as a new black panther.

There's gonna be a black part.

Bakou for a little bit.

I do think you'll write.

Actually, I think guys, we may have somehow just from these trailers come to a conclusion that I think makes sense, which is this, if it works, should do what End Game wasn't able to do because it had so many threads to tie up, which is both end what we know of the MCU and establish a new status quo that actually people want.

So with the X Men, that could mean lots of different things because we get the multiple timelines, we'll probably get those tied up.

If Scott has a kid, is that going to be Nathan Summers or is this going to be a Rachel Summers story and we're going to follow someone completely different?

Are they going to My answer says yes, And Jason, I would love to know your thoughts about this.

Are the Russo's going to try and fix the time travel issues, aka expand out what happened and answer those questions that people have been asking for a long time?

Yeah, what do you think and tell me.

Then well, I'll let Jason go first, and then I can lay my thoughts up.

Well, what specific time travel issues are we?

Okay, so in think about throughout the history of the MCU.

Right, so in endgame, for example, Avener Steve with the time heist, there's a lot of questions about how did the time travel work?

What does it mean?

If there's these different lines.

I wrote an article about it at Esquire.

I think and explain it.

Mark Ruffo explains it one way.

You know, there's many different conversations because time travel is impossible to explain because we don't know how to do it, right is are they gonna go back and try and like either not necessarily fixed, but maybe say, oh, actually that thing you guys noticed that did cause a time slip and that did cause some issues here, Like I feel like they're probably gonna use that as a space to acknowledge that.

So the Russo's, the Russo's and then Marcus in mcpheeley could never really fully agree on what the time travel logic was an endgame with particularly surrounding Steve when he goes back in time and he comes back as old man Steve.

So On one hand, they're like, did he just live in the background of the MCU in the past, you know, and there were two Steve Rogers.

In which case he let loads of terrible stuff happen.

Yeah, he let nine to eleven happen.

It's like, great job, captain.

Or did he live in an alternate branch timeline with Peggy?

So those are the two kind of theories, and they could never on which one was was correct.

But then when you know, the Russo's agreed to come back and do this movie, and I think mcpheeley called him up one night and was like, Okay, you know, I have this crazy idea for how we could make this work.

And I think and that's whatever, that's, whatever that idea is, was what spurred them to, you know, create this movie, get RDJ all this stuff.

So I think whatever that idea is is going to be some kind of way to reconcile those their two opposing views on the time travel logic.

And I think Steve deciding to stay in the past with Peggy or whatever he did is what created an incursion, and that's what they're going to use to you know, set up the story, because it's going to be a direct sequel from endgame, and I think that's a nice way to just directly tie it in.

You know, Steve deciding to go back and sit live in the past with Peggy fuck something up, creates an incursion, and doom is coming to collect.

I think that's a nice easy way to correct the ending, like you said, and tie it directly into where they want to go with this.

I guess my question regarding the time travel is like how much or little is the Loki stuff gonna matter?

That's what I want to imp my sense, my senses in the reading of the of Cap Sparks the incursions is then you kind of quickly hustle Loki off off stage, because then you're muddying the waters.

I think there's there's there's one major issue with the time travel to me, and that is it was very clearly explained by the Hulk right before the time heist.

Now do they does it follow it?

Not necessarily?

I think there's a there's different ways you can interpret the Captain America thing going back.

You know, whether he actually did replace a stone or whatever, did he actually create a branch or was he always supposed to be old with a baby in this time and it's just delayed a little bit whatever, you know, whatever that is.

And then so then actually.

Our perception of it that he went back and watched all these bad things happen, watch the Rise of Hydrid, et cetera, is not true.

Maybe that might be the case, right, And so I think that, you know, what is interesting to me isn't so much the fact that Mark and mcpheley disagree with Russ, which they did.

There's a there's a you can go read about this on Reddit about the way so many kind of disagreed about how it worked.

It.

To me, that's less important than the fact that they explained how it works on the screen, Like they kind of did that, like now that's cannon.

They explained it.

The issue is it gets like so fucking complicated.

If the Loki stuff is real, then what about Loki?

Like keeping the timelines intact.

With the you know, with the reins of all the times, like how do you what do you do about that?

I think, yeah, yeah, maybe that's why.

Also, maybe we do get the they love to kill fake kill Loki.

They've done it multiple times.

Maybe we get oh I would love a kid Loki.

Also, maybe they could do the time Tree gets wiped out at the beginning by an incursion, including that version.

Of Loki or something.

I could see some really interesting stuff and I want to know.

To me, the biggest hook of this movie so far is the fact that mcpheeley called them.

I was like, I think I got a way to make it work.

I love that because that is how all storytelling works.

You can tell a story ten years later and you're still thinking about the one thing you didn't get about it.

So to me, that is very exciting.

Jason, you bore up kid Loki.

Do you think there is a.

World where with Robert Downey Jr.

As I as Doom, we get a different version of Iron Man or somebody else in the Iron Man suit?

Ooh yeah, I think we do get so many different But honestly, it's gonna be I think it's gonna be.

I don't think it's gonna be a stark.

I think we're gonna get I think we're gonna see our existence, a stain, Iron Tree, Iron Hart characters, whether it's yeah, I think we're gonna see maybe Ironheart or some other folks.

I don't know that we see an alt I don't know if we do a young Tony, young iron Man.

It's always been the biggest question for them.

Tom Cruise, Invincible iron Man.

Do they just do it?

I would be I think I would be surprised if at the end of this the decision is reboot with and do it all again, but with young Tony, Young cap young No.

I would be very I think I would.

Be really surprised if that happens, because I think that the ability to call back on things is kind of why this all works.

Like the fact that there are various ways if you go back and rewatch the films, that it would make sense that RDJ is playing doom is why this works.

The fact that the that we can answer the question of Steve and the baby and Steve as an old man, and does Steve with the baby exist contemporaneously with old man?

See that is a question.

Are we gonna have.

Old man Rogers running around out here while Joe.

Steve is also running Joe Biden Steve, we did it.

We did it, Steve, We did it, Steve.

That one, that one I.

Think is a possibility.

We didn't again, that one is a possible.

Oh malarkey.

That that one I think is a possibility, just because like old Man Rogers had such a long run in the in the in the Marvel continuity.

But that I think I would be surprised if that happened.

That said, I agree with you that the time travel.

I think the multiple dimensions creates so many problems, for instance, and I think that's going to be part of Doom's plan, is to like limit multiverses, because I think if you let it just run right, if you let if you go crazy with the multiverse idea, then actually Doom can't collect enough babies because there's infinite babies of Avengers in infinite next generation event.

He actually can't do like it's it'd be crazy to try and do it that way.

The only thing he.

Destroys it, I guess try to do it is is either yeah, destroy the multiverses somehow and just like put them into one big blob, or control all the and limit the extent of multiverses so that he could possibly do that.

Mm hmmm, that's.

The only thing I I And so I agree with you in the sense that I think time travel needs to be and MultiVersus needs to be rained into a significant degree.

Ah, I'm so excited guys.

Any other theories out there.

So now we've talked about this, I'm gonna say my final theory posts this conversation, because the best theory has always come out of combos with friends.

I do think you're right, Jason.

I don't think there's any way they're going to do Young Avengers.

I like, like is in young versions of what we've already seen, and that would be too silly and derivative.

But I do think that when with the death of the fox X men, I do think this will be setting up a new Young Avengers team, and the time travel might even be a part of that, like they did in the book where you end up with the team who are young again, but they're actually the same characters.

I wonder if there's something that that could happen to I have.

To say, I don't think other than Magneto and Professor X, who I'm assume they're gonna kill simply because they're.

Eighty, Like they need to be free.

Let these men be free.

You cannot plan for these men anymore.

You know you're eighty, yeah, eighty plus.

I think I think Ian is eighty two anyway.

I actually I think i'd be surprised if they killed Scott.

I think Scott.

I think at the end of this, you're gonna need like the elder Statesman leaders.

You're gonna need that veteran leader of the MS earned it and has the respect of Meat.

And I think you're gonna need Cycle.

No, no, no, But this is great because guess what, so.

You think sticking around?

I think mar I think Marsdon sticks around.

And you want Marson around because who has a squeaky er clean public record than James Marsden.

There's not a lot of actors that's after the ship.

They've been there.

Yeah, you're right.

I would also say that sets up probably one of my favorite, and I know it's one of Jason's favorite plot lines of any comic, which is the battle for the Xavier's where Storm returns, which could be done and she and she fights deep powered Storm fights Scott and she wins and she becomes the head teacher of the x Men.

I think that could be a very interesting subplot in Secret Wars.

We'll fucking lose our minds.

I come on, that's so good.

I don't think I think we we won't see that until like an X Men actual X Men movie, You're right at least years.

I don't, but like that would be so sick.

Sorry, Ian, go ahead, No.

Which just James Marsden has been done so dirty in this role and he's there finally like bringing him back and doing injustice to putting him in the suit.

He gets to finally be the leader of the X Men.

I don't think they're gonna kill him off or like, you know, have Storm kick his ass after this one movie, Like I don't.

I just don't think.

That's about how long he was head teach off.

Because X Men ninety seven finally like reminded people how cool Cyclops actually is, and we're finally getting the seed in live action, Like, let this man have his moment, let him cook for a movie or two, especially if they're gonna keep Marsden, which Jason, I do agree, him being kind of like the Elder Statesman, him staying as you know, in that character, but maybe rebooting some of the other characters with younger actors.

I think that's kind of a nice compromise.

I think that could work.

But yeah, like, let Marsden have his moment.

He's been waiting like fifteen years for this, Like let him cook, let him do.

Let him do that move from the last season of X Men ninety seven where it was him and he stopped himself falling from the sky by blosting into the ground and making a giant crayon.

That was so sick.

Let's go, let's go, let's quickly go through the X Men cast in and try and figure out like who will be here and secondarily who might survive.

I actually think I'm shocked at my own belief in this.

I actually think that there is a world in which we've you know, we enter a fourth decade of Wolverine agreed, And I think that there's like, I think that there's a legitimate run for an old man logan in this doom paradigm.

Okay, so let's.

Say him and him and X twenty three.

Absolutely okay, But I think that they would bring a younger actor and at some point.

But I think there's a world in which as a multi dimensional, older fucking guy who was remembers all the ship before the incursions.

I think you he can go.

Okay, he's the c theory.

Also think about this, he could he could also that's a great a Wolverine's prestige TV show like Made like Lanterns or something that could compete against the James Gunn of verse.

I'm just saying, so I like that one a lot.

Jason, maybe get some Battle World shows.

Tell us more so, let's go through it.

Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen.

I think, but what do we think they are?

They done?

We agree they're okay?

Uh Famka Jansen, Jean Gray.

I'd love to see it.

I don't think she's gonna be in.

I don't think she's gonna be in wis.

I think we found her Jean Gray, and she's young and she's a hot new thing.

Like I agree, so Sophie Turner, Like, let's ask Sophie Turner she think she remains?

You think she's out.

I think she's.

Forever.

Why do you invested Sophie Turner as an hour?

Immediately, I will say, thinking like an exec, Sophie Turner, Jean Gray, Maze Williams, Wolf's beIN.

I know the movie insanely good option Actually okay, wait.

Wait wait wait wait, now you say that maybe maybe in battle World or in the lead up, we could get some kind of glimpse of that magic New Mutants Wolf Spain that had like failed Fox.

Ear in its own little world.

But yeah, I mean, I think the funny thing is I had obviously been a big It's Sadie Sink isn't gonna be Dan Gray?

Why would they introduce her in brand new day type person?

But after I saw Sadie Sink on the big screen in that finale of Stranger Things, every single person who walked out was like, she's fucking dream Ray, Like she's so good, she just fucking transcends.

Okay, who's next, Jason?

I'd love to see Famka back, but she's doing erotic Netflix movies.

I don't think she's coming back.

Okay, Okay, Young Charles, Young Magneto, James McVoy and Fasten.

Do we see them and do they live?

I think they kiss and then die.

Okay, this is not fan contentment week.

Okay, we would we would all be happy to give it to us.

You know what they wait, wait, hold on, hold on, Charles, wait wait they and they call it seated rivals because he's because Charles is sitting.

That's so good.

Okay, dude, we go Okay, sorry, go ahead, and.

In time travel way, it would be great to visit Young Charles, and Magneto in a different time period.

I'd love to see them pop up.

Incredible costing.

Let's get them back one more time, even just for a little you know, the flash esque final sequence or some ship like.

I think they deserve it, incredible costing, but they're gonna die.

I think if they're both in it, that one of them lives, but I'm not sure which one.

I do feel like we have a higher likelihood of a Magnetos of because the time travel element will allow them to solve the Magneo World.

War two issue.

And I think they do have some you know, Fastbenders very beloved in that role.

So was m Is McKellen.

Yeah, but yeah, so was McKellen.

So I think either way we could end up with an old timey I think you're right, Jason, I think Fastbender Magneo could survive.

That's a guess for me.

Storm Holly Berry, No, I think they're going to replace her with.

A contentious I don't know if she wants to return exactly.

Did he do their Black Heroes anyway?

Well, and they did a terrible job.

I was recently rereading about how she was a big fan of a certain producer or writer who'd worked at Marvel, because he had actually told he'd given up the job of doing X three because they'd written her a fake sequence, a fake opening that was like pretending the movie was about Storm to get her to sign on, and he left because he thought and he told her, but she'd you know, and that's why she she kind of wasn't really in the movie.

So that to me, I think she still deserves to come back and have her moment, and I would love to see her because we're getting the other X men.

I don't think the likelihood it is high because I think they really want to finally get a dark skinned proper Storm.

Correct.

So I don't know that.

Alexandra's ship X men.

No, she's not getting to She did too much trouble.

Okay, okay, listen, I'm just listen.

We're just running down a questions.

I love it, Rebecca Romaine, Mystique, does does she and does she live?

And by cameo?

Okay, do you think they're going to do the corniest possible version, which is they have her turn into Mystique and then they have Jennifer Lawrence turn so that will be the cameo.

Well, that's that's My second question.

Is, well, Jennifer Lawrence hated doing it, so I don't know, because by the end she was like barely blue because she was like, I'm not putting on that fucking makeup anymore.

She hated doing it.

I think she did.

It would be a mina, a minor like troll performance.

I love Rebecca.

I think she's committed.

She doesn't like to make up.

He did.

Rivalry did a great job gagging at it.

But I do think Jennifer loves a gag.

She loves to just be out here.

She in her so I think if they give her a juicy enough bit where she could really be hysterical, I could see her coming through.

I thought that too, if she could do a bit.

Okay, who else do we have?

Okay, Sean Ashmore Iceman.

I could believe it too, not just that he is the recurring returning character throughout all the X Men movies, like he's even in Days of Future Past.

He's you know, I feel like he's one of our core characters.

Unders I think it could be a handoff cameo because they probably gonna do Gay Iceman, which is the current, you know, continuity of Marvel, and I think they need an actual gay character who can be gay and isn't like a gay jubble or something.

So like, I think that they will get rid of him.

But I think Sean Ashmore coming back maybe because also in that version, it's all.

The Iceman and then it's the it's he is one of the ones who.

Gets to go back, So I wonder if that could be a part of it.

I my prediction is that Shawn Ashmore Iceman isn't it.

And then I think that in order to pump up mutants, pump up the x Men, build hype for X Men movies, we get to see Omega level Iceman.

Yeah, I would love that.

I think it's a came or not.

But I think we see him like doing Iceman, doing the thing where he creates like a million Iceman club, like just go fucking freezy, entire earth, whatever it is.

I think we see him go crazy.

Okay, Nick the Beast, Hank McCoy.

I love it.

I thought that was fantastic.

Yeah, I wish it would him, but I I know, I do feel like the middle, the middle Fox Ground, though, is very beloved.

That kind of Days of Future Past era was seen as a good era first class, no matter it's problems.

So maybe maybe we do get a glimpse.

I think Holts in his genre bag obviously might be hard with that DC thing, but those guys are getting closer to a crossover, so who knows.

Maybe a little cameo.

Definitely some flashbacks.

I think we're going to be getting like Twilight Breaking Dawn level credit.

Kelsey Grammar, he's back, Grammar beast.

I think he dies.

He dies?

Yes, Yeah, Also, guys, I want to shout out quickly Aaron Ashmore, Sean Ashmore's brother who Google AI still thinks is actually Sean Ashmore and was Iceman, but no, he played Jimmy also on Smallville, and I always thought that.

That was the same guy.

He also played Duncan Lock and Lock and Key.

He's another iconic comic book guy, and for a long time, until I was a teenager, I thought they were the same person, and then I realized they were twins.

So shout out to his twin who's also a great actor, but not Iceman.

That is.

Which Quicksilver or both or ATJ and does either survive.

Bring back at J as I think they're going to bring him back.

Him and Scarlet Witch Cook, him and wander Evan Peters got to tiptoe back in.

Okay, here's here's the real problem.

Evan Peters did tiptoe into the universe in WandaVision, and so there's like an established link.

Yeah, but not as I not as the twins act.

He was just the guy next door.

But people were like, oh, he'll be the twin for like an all universe round.

But I do think having Aaron, Kayley and Johnson come back in, given the story of Scarlett Witch that we have and where we are in the univer is a more emotionally impactful moment, and he comes back because she's on screen.

Yeah, I think it's.

Sell That also also interesting if younger Magneto does survive, they could then really set up that kind of trip tick of the House of m of having the three of them together in this period when things are being reshaped by the way, which Magneio could always take advantage of in the future.

So hopefully I would like to see atj come back.

I would like to see that as well.

Okay, Cody Smith McPhee night Crawler or Alan Cumming Night Crawler.

We know Alan Cummings back there is one night Crawler and his name is Alan Commings.

We know he's back, but do they and then do they live?

And do we also get Cody.

Alan Comings is another actor who could give us a great death.

Oh man, Yeah, well, I I think they're in the same space I was gonna say, is like, I actually think more of what Ian was saying about Cyclops or I think Nikral is such an iconic character and performance they might want to give him his juice.

So I think he's at least gonna be in the whole movie, but he might pass away.

I did like Cody Smith McFee.

I thought that was a fun take.

Sure, Yeah, yeah, I think I also think Alan Comings is having with the traders and everything of it all, like having a real glow up centered moment, and that's always good for press.

So why not just keep him around and let him be fun, you know, and an elder statesman.

I would like to see even the row.

I hope he doesn't die.

I would love that they already are letting him be a kind of like he's getting to be himself about it too, Like he'll be like, I don't know what's happening in the movie.

They just paint him be blue and I went on set for five hours, Like they're letting him be the kind of j Law, the fun one who doesn't have to take it seriously, which is gonna be an inn for other people who watch The Traders but don't care about the MCU.

So I think that's really.

Next up oscar Isaac Apocalypse.

No we should get that, ever.

Unless they're gonna give it to him and allow him to reconcentualize the character again, I don't, unfortunately for Sweet Boy, one of the most wasted castings of all time.

You know who I would bring back, though, Jason Who's that kid who played Angel in that movie?

I thought he was pretty good.

He Yeah, he was good.

He was good.

Okay.

Daphney Keyen next twenty three.

She's back, but she lives.

She's also she's a Wolverine.

Yeah, leave Shrieber Saber.

I would like, finally in appropriate.

I mean, he didn't come back, take.

Us to Battle World.

Let us see him duke it out in a real way.

I'm here for.

All the boys.

I'd like to see both sabertoots and Wolverine fight in Battle World.

Why not?

Hell yeah?

Elliott Page Kate Pride.

I think there's a way to do it with multi verses.

That would be really cool actually, And also I think it would be cool there's a version.

Why couldn't it be Kit Pride in a different universe, you know, like there's no reason.

And then also I do think Kate.

I do think Kitty Pride is gonna be probably a major player when they recast the X Men, but maybe like phase two of the Mutant saga, So I think we could still have a little Kitty Pride nod here that doesn't take away from whatever they're gonna set up, because I think they got to do the main five first.

I think that would be cool.

I think, my I just think Disney's too risk averse, but it would.

Be very great.

It's a shame too, because they did such a great version of that in Umbrella Academy.

It's so emotional, beautifully done, so fantastic, didn't take away at all, just added to the story.

So Disney maybe take a little nod there.

Josh Brolin Cable.

I fucking hope so, because that shit harried.

I think maybe, yeah, maybe, I think maybe that would be really funny and meta and interesting.

It would be funny to see him be like dad, you know, like an with that.

Yeah, I like that a lot stranger things.

Charlie Heaton as Sam Guthrie aka Canniball from The New Mutants, I wonder how much.

I'd like to see so.

I kind of like The New Muton's vibe.

I enjoyed.

It's not a good movie, terrible right vibe Ready more Marvel horror.

I agree the real casting from that that if they're gonna bring one, I don't think she'd do it.

I think she's got her Mario money, she doesn't need it.

But Anya Taylor Joya's magic was unbelievable casting.

It was so good.

Never forgive them for randomly making her a racist, something that is not a part of her story in any comic ever, but they just decided was like an interesting plot point.

But that casting her with the sword.

I still watch clips from her of that.

Bring that bitch in.

She can literally cut through dimensions.

I would her in a real EMCU movie, please, And if she is in it, does she live?

I mean that would be a huge starget.

And it's not like.

Anya Taylor joy my sense just parasocially through the internet, as she wouldn't want to do it, but I think she'd be I think it would be cool.

Maybe I think she would.

I think she would survive too, because she could just go to Limbo and.

Just hie out exactly, and maybe they would say to her, like I also wonder if they'd kind of be like, look, be in this fucking movie, sign a one contract deal, do it get your three hundred thousand dollars or whatever, and maybe see if you like a script that we do that's more in the style of a horror type script.

You know.

I think the rollout of that was terrible for all of them, so I get it.

But the MCU has insane amounts of money and that is legit one of the best castings we've ever gotten.

So fight for it, guys.

Do it?

Okay?

Finally, what questions does Doomsday actually need to add?

Like?

Why does it?

Who is?

Why is Robert Donny Dunia Doom?

I think that's it.

I find that everyone right.

Does anybody have any theories about like what, Yes, that's the biggest one.

Any other ones?

Is the MCU still something that can make a billion dollars?

I think that is also, like this movie needs to make a billion dollars.

It needs to make two.

It needs to promise that brand New Day can do the same.

So on a business level, I think that too, Joelle.

Narratively, what were you thinking?

I need an emotional reinvestment in this universe.

I love Marvel like I think there's because I've been rather harshed on the last couple of movies the sentiment that I do not enjoy Marvel.

That's not at all the case.

I would love a return to our Heyday, or or even just a new way in I I the characters I've I've gravitated toward most are like Aman Vlani's uh miss Marvel, Florence's character as well.

I just these It's It's it's these, It's the three women really, and then Hailey Steinfeld as the new Hawk Eye.

Those are the characters that I've like, Oh, this is really interesting.

I'm invested.

I'm pretty excited for Wonder Man.

I'm pretty excited for the Nuwanda Vision Spinas show Vision Quest, which looks really interesting.

So yeah, so I just I need them to center me back into the world.

It's supposed to be a big team movie.

I need to believe the team.

I need to see the avengers of it all in order for it to work, or otherwise just stop and give me an X Men movie and start over there, because this is exhausting.

Also, Joelle, I will say you raised one.

I think another question now that I hadn't realized.

How does the MCU balance the street level stuff that works that people have connected with on the TV.

They cannot deny it.

The numbers are there, with the balance of going into this huge cosmic space.

I wonder if this is kind of them saying a little bit goodbye to the Street team, and maybe we'll see them more in like Spider Man stuff.

I don't know, I just don't I would love to see miss Marvel at taking on a huge role in this.

I fear that our young girls.

May get a similar treatment to the women in End Game, where it's more of this kind of sequence.

Hopefully they'll change that and do a little bit meta take, but I do worry that that is another question they have to solve because the street level stuff is important to who Marvel is.

Marvel is not all gods and monsters, that's DC so, so I want to know that balance.

How do they come out of it?

Ian?

What's your what's your biggest question coming out of the movie.

What do you think it needs to answer?

Yeah, I think you guys kind of hit on one of my biggest ones.

Why is at RDJ?

What does new Mass, Same Task mean?

Because that's like kind of been the only tagline that they've thrown out around this movie.

What does that mean?

And I think hopefully this movie answers that.

And I think to the question that you just posed, Rosie about the street level versus the large scale stuff, I actually think because of the success of things like Daredevil and they want to keep Spider Man more, you know, street level and things, I think after Doomsday and Secret Wars, I think we're going to see a shift back towards some of those most more smaller scale stories.

And I think doing these two giant crossover event films is a way for them to kind of tie up all those loose ends, put a nice ball in that, put it to the side, and then move forward with smaller scale personal stories.

If we're going into exactly exactly that's what I think is going to come.

Out this film.

I halfway agree with you.

I do think that I think a big part of why Marvel has stumbled in this stretch has been there's been no Avengers movies in that there's been the it's the crossover movies that are the money makers, so everyone to go.

I think that there's going to be a two step approach.

This is assuming that Doomsday makes a billion dollars or hits whatever target that they want to hit.

I think there's going to be a two step approach in which the solo movies are smaller, smaller budget, different approach differently from a production standpoint, and then it's the crossover movies, the Avengers versus X Men, the Avengers, Secret War, the whatevers that they throw the old school Marvel marketing budget, law school production budget at because I.

Think that would be great.

I think that if because there's two tracks, right, if Doomsday hits targets, there's no way they turn away.

They know there's no way they go, Okay, we did that.

Now let's go smaller.

Now let's not make money anymore.

Let's just do what.

They're going to be like, how do we how do we roll?

How do we do this out in a sustainable way?

Like how do we keep hitting these marks?

And I think if it doesn't hit the number and by how and if it doesn't hit the number by like a devastating amount, I think we get a massive reset.

Like I don't know what the world looks like for Disney and Marvel going forward.

I think maybe we don't see these movies for ten years.

I don't know what happens after that.

Yeah.

Interesting, I know.

This four billion dollar investment, the four billion dollar investment over the past twenty years.

I'm just trying to do a little bit of like mental math of like what how long can Marvel be down now that it's an actual independent studio, Like is there any world where they switch to a TV and they're like, you know what, our TV shows hit well enough.

They're in a financial space that we know we can manage year to year.

Let's lay in the same way that Disney did sort of allow Lucas to do.

Lucas was like, Yo, for whatever reason, our movies are not hitting.

We need to stop down, figure out what this looks like, and come back and attack later.

It's what I had hoped would happen after endgame, that they would take a pause, go back to street level, build us back up.

I think it's the right move.

I just worry, like or wonder as an independent entity if they can financially afford not to be releasing movies.

I think the truth is that because it's owned by Disney, and Disney just has so much money.

Like I just don't think they see Marvel as a they don't see them as a separate studio.

I do think that you are onto something where I do think and I have considered this with the rollout of the TV shows.

I do think that if the movies do not hit, the MCUTV shows essentially become the CWTV shows of the next generation, where in ten years Disney's just making them like every month and people are watching them and watching them and watching them and watching them.

But if the movies don't hit, maybe they do transition to something cheaper and easier to sustainably make.

I'm really interested to see where that goes because I think you taught I think you bring up something both of you, Jason angelel really interesting about this has to be the final Like, if this one doesn't hit, we do something different.

They can't do it again.

Off the Fantastic four.

I think if the I think if it doesn't hit, well, I think I think if it does hit.

I think there's a world in which the TV shows go away agree.

TV shows are more likely to go away if the movies hit agree, because then they're just like, fuck that that was like that was an experiment that didn't work, and they can just make you understand what the kind of formula is now in this new paradigm in the movie space.

So let's just do that and cut our losses on TV.

I think that that's a possibility.

And I also think you're right in that if it doesn't work, there'll be some sort of reset in which the thinking will be, let's figure out what the balance is with TV, and let's just keep this because you've got to keep the property alive somehow.

What's the balance economically where we just keep people aware that we have this and this is out there, and let's just lower budgets on everything.

But I do think I think it potentially TV could go away.

I think so too.

And I'm going to tell you something else crazy that we have to think about with this, guys.

If this Netflix Warner Brothers deal goes through and on and Netflix owns DC, they have quite expressly said they have no interest in publishing, So it's going to be interesting to see if they then try and license.

I do not believe in any world that they would sell the DC characters.

Batman is too much of Superman.

You can make billions just off those licensing rights, right, But but do I think that there is a world where they may license those rights to Disney for.

Many, many, many many billions of dollars.

Yes, I think it almost happened.

That it almost happened, and it almost is our big I think that's our big kind of weird like overhanging industry thing is like all of this theorizing.

It could be Yeah, it could be terrible, It could not mean anything when this happens.

But for now, I mean, what a way to start the new year.

Guys.

I'm so fucking stoked to keep talking about this stuff.

With you guys, Like this is the fun, This is the ship that gets us going.

Wait, Jason, go.

One more, one more last thing and we'll leave you this.

We forgot to say about this guy Doom.

Does he live?

Do we see RDJ after this?

I think Ardie Day Doom is dead.

Guys.

Yeah, they gave him a ton of money, but was it for one movie?

Two movies?

Oh?

Shit, they're gonna ge, They're gonna eat it for two movies.

The money was so much it can't do.

I think two movies, that's not logical.

It's gotta be at least two.

I think he's in Doomsday and Secret Wars they recast after that.

I was gonna say, in Secret Wars, we could even reveal real doom.

That's the thing too.

Is like you could have that conflict be part of Secret Wars of like the Two Dooms.

But yeah, Robert Downey Jr.

I'm very interested.

Also, Ian, I hadn't actually heard that new mask same task thing, like said out loud.

I'd seen him post it.

But now I think Jason's theory and Joelle's theories of like him essentially seeing himself as a savior and wanting to ask clearly what they're going with.

He's definitely in that mindset, which is the best doom stories, and I'm excited to really see.

Where that goes.

But yeah, I think it's one hundred mill and he's gone.

He can go and live in his you know, fucking where does he live, like in a fucking windmill with his wife or something like make doctor Dolittle too.

It up did you see who?

I forget who it was that was saying that, like he had his own part of the set that was kind or whatever.

And butmilear And by the way, let me just say he deserves it.

He's fucking good for Downland.

Let him have it.

Good for him.

I will say, guys, it does not necessarily While I agree with Jason because at this point, if you have to bring it back to revive the franchise, let him have his little land, I will say, yes, the precedent for this is not good because the only real president we have is what Marlon Brando did while.

They were fucking making Heart of Darkness.

You know, so like that doesn't bode well to me, But I love the drama.

Like, let's get the drama.

Semih lear.

Tell me more.

What are they feeding you at downey Land?

Who's the private chef?

Like?

Is it Wolfgang Puck?

You brought in your own catering?

Like, no, we don't do that here.

Yeah, no, crafty bitch.

Who's not allowed in downey Land?

Is I need all of the gossip?

Please do?

This is where he should be.

I want to read that book, Jason, I could, that'll be your non fiction debut in ten years Jason Downeyland all right by Jason, And it also makes me think I'll leave us.

I'll leave us with this thought.

There's gonna be a moment in this movie where Doom takes off the mask and Steve four and the rest are.

Like, oh yeah, yeah and happy.

You don't cast him without.

Driving for a second.

You don't cast him without doing that, Okay.

On the next episode of Extra Vision, we're diving in all the media we missed over the holidays, So excited to talk about that included heated rivals and more.

Joel an Ian, thank you for joining us.

That's it for this episode.

Thanks for listening.

Bye bye bye.

X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsion and Rosie Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.

Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kolefman.

Our supervising producer is Abusafar.

Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and.

A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme songs by Aaron Kaufman.

Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and Heidi our discord moderator