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Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on.

We pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging, and feel privileged to continue the sharing of birth stories and knowledge that has been a fundamental part of Indigenous culture.

Hi.

I'm Cassania Lukic and this is diary of a birth.

We've all heard the story of a whoopsie baby, those happy little accidents that turn all of our plans upside down.

But what happens when you find out you're pregnant after being diagnosed with pre cancerous cells and are booked in for hysterectomy?

So I thought, you know, we've got two beautiful, happy, healthy children.

That's it.

I think we're done.

And we agreed we were done with too, and that was the future was looking bright.

So I booked in the hysterectomyc.

Today's mum faced a decision on whether to continue her pregnancy or terminate, but after seeing her baby was healthy and growing well, she felt like it was a sign.

So let's meet today's mum.

Hi.

My name is Courtney and this is a diary of my birth with Lockie.

So, Courtney, I feel like there's quite a lot going on in your story.

You've got three kids now, LOCKI being your third.

We're going to focus on his birth today, but can you just tell me a little bit about what your life looked like before Locky's surprised you sure.

Look, you know, terrible to favorite hashtags West like that was.

I had a great life, and you know, the end of twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four was going to be my year.

I had two kids.

I had one who was four, he was almost two.

I was thirty eight.

I have an amazing husband, Michael, who's a paramedic.

We live on the Gold Coast, you know, remotely on the Gold Coast.

Life is great.

And so for me, I was now getting to focus two kids, you know, sort of underfore, and I was getting to focus on me.

And I was like, Okay, it's my year for twenty twenty four.

It's a year to get me back my health back.

Six weeks after I had given birth to Jack, I had had my normal six week postpartum check and the GPS said, looks, let's do a Patsmere because I'd actually conceived Jack.

When we were living over in England, and so I hadn't had a patsmer in Australia for a while, despite having won in England the previous year.

And unfortunately that threw up the complication of AIS or adino castnomo in situ, and so that was removed with the cone biopsy.

And that's all fine.

But the surgeon and sort of the gynecologist and everyone sort of post and as well has always advised, look, you're better off once you complete your family if you're planning to have more children, because he was my first to have a completion hysterectomy, just to make sure, because it's a higher chance of it developing into like or cancer, etc.

So I just want to pause you there, just for one second.

Can you tell us a little bit more about what AIS is?

What does that mean?

Sure?

So, I guess there's a few ways to describe it, but it's essentially pre cancer cells.

In some situations, it's sometimes described as like a stage zero cancer.

It essentially is like abnormal cells of the cervix and there's a much greater chance of those cells turning into cancer cells later on, or turning into a malignancy.

And so when you've got that sort of cell or ais or different types of pre cancer cells.

Normally it's a better indication and there's a higher risk of later on of you actually being diagnosed with like a stage one or later.

Particularly with the CERFX.

It's an easy one to monitor sort of the opening of the cervix with a Patsmere and that's certainly gotten better, but there is always a risk that it can actually go higher up and there's no way of determining that it is actually higher up.

And because of that, they normally at this point sort of say, look, if you're happy to have a completion hysterectomy and sort of take everything out, then you're minimizing your risk later on.

Okay, so you found that out after your first child or a second.

First Yeah, so about I think six weeks I found out that I had it, and then probably before he was three months old, I had the cone biopsy, which sort of removes the iis and so that's taking like a chunk, a two centimeter chunk off the cervix to kind of make sure it's all removed and excised completely.

And then that obviously does mean that you've got a shorter cervix, and you've got risk of shorter cervix and you know incompetent cervix complications with latter pregnancies.

But the point is that they try to maintain as much of it as possible because at that stage, I still wanted to have more kits.

I wanted to have a second, but was advised even by my ob when I was pregnant with Margo, even at the first check I went in there, you know, seven week check, and you know, she started the conversation with like a half an hour chat about how I should have a hysterectomy after I'd finished.

So so I'm like, we focus on the baby, you know, this one right now.

So I'd always it was always on my cards too, That's what I needed to consider once we decided.

Yeah, so after you had your second, was that the conversation you were like, Okay, well we're done having kids now, we're going to start thinking about doing the hysterectomy.

Yeah, So I think I was never we kind of got to the edge of twenty twenty three and I didn't want to sort of in you know, hormonal state, really make that decision.

Are we done around?

We've done.

So I waited till I felt like we were in a really good position.

You know, Omargo was almost two, and I thought, okay, let's now have that conversation, decide what do we think we're going to do.

And I'm thirty eight at this stage, like I'm not young.

Pregnancy isn't my ideal state of being.

So, you know, we had the conversation and michaels a parent and he works sort of four and a half days on, four and a half days off.

And when he's working, although he's still here, he's not five flow.

He's up before the kids get up in the morning, he's away, and he's back once they're in bed at night.

So I'm a solo mum for you know, the better part of five days a week, and they work full time.

So I was really like, I'm fearful of whether or not I can do three children, given that, you know, I'll be looking after three kids, you know, five days out of ten on my own.

And so I thought, you know, we've got two beautiful, happy, healthy children.

That's it.

I think we're done.

And we agreed we were done with two and that was the future was looking bright.

So I booked in a hysteric.

Tom and then something happened.

And then and then life intervened and said, aha, silly you making plants.

And you found out you were pregnant.

I did, which was historic to me.

Was booked for March, and in February.

Early February, I was late, like five days late, and I thought, nah, Like, I thought, there's no chance.

There's no chance in pregnant.

We had been using protection.

I thought, there's no chance.

But just in case, I'm gonna do a pregnancy test.

And honestly, the line came up ten seconds before the control line came up, and I just thought, oh my god.

I was in absolute shock.

I thought, how on earth has this happened.

I only learned when I was fifteen weeks pregnant that my two year old liked to chew on the condoms in daddy's straw because she thought they were chocolates.

So yeah, oh my god.

Yeah, so we have Margot, so thankful lot your daughter yep.

Wow, yeah, yeah, so that's a great story for their eighteenth But yeah, so your.

Daughter basically pin pricked your condoms.

Yep, that's what happened.

Oh my godness, because.

Before only that for the first fifteen weeks, I thought we can't be the one percent, Like there's no way, Like I know they're not you know, they say ninety nine percent effective rate.

It was like there's no way, there's no way.

Okay, So when you found out you were pregnant with Lucky, what went through your mind?

Oh a lot.

Honestly, I just thought, no, I can't do this.

Whilst even at that stage it was like, oh my god, we'd already like we've decided it.

I can't do three kids.

I certainly can't do three kids on my own.

Even at that point, I was like, I can't be pregnant again.

I can't go through this again.

I just I think I was I had made my decision, you know.

I was like, Hey, that's why I was so looking forward to the hysterectomy.

That's my path.

This year was about me.

You know, I'm good, and so I think for me it was really about it wasn't planned and I had such a loss of control and normally I'm I'm really super decisive.

So you know, I think life is made up of moments and they give you meaning, and momentum moves you between those moments, and I think being decisive helps give you that momentum.

So even if it turns out to be the wrong decision, I don't regret it because at least I've made a decision and I've moved on and I don't have any paralysis of procrastination.

And so obviously, like my first thought was termination.

Honestly, I thought, I can't do this.

This is not what we were what we were planning.

But I found I just I couldn't make that decision.

I had such a fear of well, what does that mean for me in terms of well I have lots of relief post that decision of the termination and be like, Okay, now I can go back to what was planned, or would I feel like, oh my god, I regret this, and you know, I won't be able to live with making that decision.

And I was just paralyzed by the thought of what to do next.

And I'm super lucky because obviously, like I realize, we have enormous fertility privilege, Like, not only have we not had any troubles with our fertility journey, and I have so many close friends who've had such a struggle to parenthood and have had some of the worst out comes imaginable and here I am not having any struggles.

But also I'm so lucky because I have I have access to termination up to twenty two weeks in Queensland and up to term for medical reasons.

And you know, I had really wonderful discussions with the medical team and they were all incredibly supportive and very factual, so it's not like anyone was pushing me one way or the other or trying to color that choice.

And Michael was fantastic, and you know he was I think initially in the shock, he was there with me and the oh my god, we can't do this.

This wasn't what was planned, and then pretty quickly he moved towards whatever you feel like you need to do.

Then I'm one hundred percent behind.

You know, if this is something that you are putting your hand, I'm going you can't do it, then absolutely that's that's the right thing to do.

So I was pretty depressed, to be honest, And I know that sounds awful.

No, no, no, I don't.

I don't think it's awful.

I think it's it's very realistic and a decision that a lot of women face when it's not planned and It is a really difficult decision, and one hundred percent yours and your family's decision to make.

If your initial feeling was termination, what ultimately made you decide to continue with the pregnancy.

Honestly, I find it hard probably to say that there was a decision to proactively continue.

It was probably more like an inability to make the decision to terminate.

And so I kind of felt like, you know, the weight on me to make that call was too big.

So I was sort of looking for an excuse.

So we pursued every medical test available.

We hadn't done it with our previous two kids, and we did the you know, reproductive carrier screening, and I did genetic testing on me, and we did we did everything, and eventually finally yes, at that seventeen week mark, they were like, look, we can't find anything.

You're fine, Bub's fine.

And at that stage, despite being really depressed all about it, I thought, Okay, we've got to tell the kids because Jack was for about your third child, like I'm showing.

So Jack was kind of like, what if you got in your belly?

And the answer cheese wasn't cutting it anymore.

We told the kids that now I was having a baby, and honestly, they were so excited that it was really really hard for me then not to get excited with them and sort of start that journey of acceptance.

And so that was probably the turning point.

But I know, still, to be honest, Still, even right up until the birth, there were still moments where I was like, Oh, I don't know, have we made the right call here?

So yeah, it's tough.

Thank you so much for being so honest with us, because I think it's actually really important for people to hear this, because while falling pregnant is absolutely a blessing, and when you're in a committed relationship, you have kids, like you're in a happy, healthy home, you can do it.

It doesn't mean that it's the easy choice.

And I think that having that questioning about it is really normal and I think people do need to hear that a little bit more.

So, did you get to a point where you were kind of accepting a little bit more of this, Like did you allow yourself to get excited about having another baby?

Honestly, I don't know if I ever got to the point of excited.

I definitely got to acceptance sort of really from about seventeen weeks onwards.

You know, I was accepting of that that was fine, but yeah, it wasn't really until he was born that suddenly I just immediately I was like, there was never any other decision apart from this, Like this was one hundred percent the best thing that ever happened to.

Us, us coming up.

I'm not even confident that I pushed.

I'm not even sure that it was actually any type of effort on my behalf, but he shot out of me like a rocket.

So, considering your medical history and the pre cancerous cells and your plan to get a hysterectomy, did that make your pregnancy look different a little?

There was also one small other complication.

I had a polyp that they'd found in my uterus that my surgeon, in the month before I was due to hysterectomy, had decided that she may want to take it out on its own pride of hysterectomy, just in case there was risk of malignancy.

And so I had an ultrasound to see whether or not that had grown, which was kind of the best way to determine if it was something that was a bit sinister, and it had grown interestingly enough at that point there was also a little Locky in there, so.

We had a friend in there.

He had a buddy.

Pretty soon then they couldn't see the pollup penny war as lock he got bigger and bigger, and obviously, you know, unless I was going to make a decision, they weren't doing anything about that.

But because of the previous as, because of the previous cone biopsy, which obviously can cause a shorter cervix or incompetent cervix, there was very quickly a decision that I should be looked after by Maternal Feetal Medicine so MFM.

And so right from the start I was with that team, and you know, that was great, and they are very experienced in everything, so that just it meant really regular checkups and scans and checks.

So sixteen weeks I did have the short cervix and it just sort of shortened to about one point five centimeters.

So I started the progesterone pessories and thankfully that managed to keep the cervix in check, so I didn't need the stitch, which is the other thing that they would tend to do if you've got a short cervix to try and because obviously the risk of the short service is pre tend birth.

Yeah, because basically, when you're having a traditional healthy pregnancy, your service is long, thick, and very closed, yes, and then as pregnancy progresses that starts to open, drop, shorten, and flat.

That's like what they talk about when you go into labor.

They say your cervix is shortened, it's open, So it's not just about it being dilated, it's also about it shortening.

So they want to avoid.

That absolutely because at the end of the day, the baby has to come out.

Yeah.

Okay, So apart from the pesories, they're also you know, at sixteen weeks they're like, hey, you can't lift anything heavier than three kilos.

Oh that's great with two kids.

Yeah, I can't do that.

And I two kids, like on my own five days a week.

So my beautiful dad, he lives in prison, so he would come down when Michael was working and he would do the lifting and the getting in and out of the bath and the day care run.

So you know, he really stepped up to the plate.

Oh bless him.

Yeah.

So I definitely was a bit pampered during this pregnancy, and thankfully the rest of it was a pretty run of the mill.

Yeah, there was cervix held.

It was short, but it was still closed, it was still hard, it was still good, and I didn't have any other concerns.

Yeah, So did you have any expectations?

Did your medical team have expectations about when you were to give birth or how you were going to give birth?

Luckily, none of the conditions or issues that I had sort of indicated a cesaian anyway.

Previously, I'd had a you know, spontaneous vaginal delivery with Jack, and I'd had a vaginal induction with Margo.

I preferred the spontaneous to the induction, so I was kind of gunning for, hey, can we just see how we go and you know, hopefully it all just happens pretty naturally.

And they were happy to support that.

So once I'd got past the you know, it was kind of every It was twenty eight, then it was thirty two, then it was thirty five, then it was thirty seven, just to kind of can we keep getting the cervix to that point?

Okay, So did you go into labor spontaneously?

Well?

Yeah, I did, and then it lasted for a very long time.

It was my birthday.

I was thirty seven plus three, and it had been a really stressful week because Michael had had literally the day before, Michael had had a melanoma removed from his forehead.

Thankfully, he was on sick lyate, so that was helpful, but he was stitch He had like fifty five stitches on his face.

He was bruised and black and bloody and looked like Frankenstein.

And it was my birthday and I was working because I was planning to work up until the thirty eight weeks, and I started to feel tightenings in the morning while I was on like virtual meetings, and they sort of kept coming, and they kept getting a little bit spicier to the point where I was not really able to talk through them.

And I kept joking with people I was having meeting weeks, being like, oh, I'm labor.

And then by the end of the day that Joe got less funny because by around five PM, I was like, oh, these feel like the tightenings I had with Jack with my first and with him, I turned up to hospital because I had reduced fegal movements and I had been having the tightenings, but I didn't think there were contractions that they're just tight.

There wasn't a lot of pain, and you know, I turned up to hospital like can you check him out?

And they're like, yeah, no worries, and they're like, oh, you're four centimeters dilated.

So I went straight to the birth suite and he was born like four hours later.

So I was like, oh, this now feels exactly like what it did like when I just arrived to hospital.

So I took myself to the hospital because I was like, look, I'm going to get checked out.

And they did an internal exam and they're like, oh, yeah, you're three centimeters dilated.

So I'm like, oh my gosh, okay, amazing and they said, you know, they knew it was my birthday and so they're like, okay, well do you want to go home, have some cake, come back when it gets a bit further along.

So yeah, sure.

So that so I did it, came home, you know, had the shower, had some and then about ten o'clock I was like, okay, this is I think this is going to happen now, Like I feel like this is getting more intense.

They were lasting for longer and I said to Michael's like, let's go, and he's like, are you sure.

I'm like yeah, it's like he's sure, though, Like I think he was super reluctant because he's got a massive scar on his head, and he's like, do I have to turn up and see people?

It's not about you, you guys labor, I know, forget about your scar.

A little bit more empathy.

Yeah.

So we turned up and the midwife checks again and she's like, yeah, look, I think you're a bit closer than four centimeters.

Now up to you.

You can stay and we can just put you in a side room and monitor you for the next couple of hours, or you can go home and get some sleep.

And knowing my my births have both been very quick births in a scheme of things, so I was like, oh, I'm not going home again, Like this isn't this is not a good Yes, I was like, I'll take your side room.

But I sent Michael home.

You know, at least one of us will be arrested.

So he left and they sort of checked me again about four am in the morning and I was still four centimeters and so the midwife was like, what do you want to do, hun And I was like, oh, man, I haven't slept.

I was like, I'm gonna go home, she said.

Cool.

Probably from about that ten PM, the pay level had stayed, like, the intensity had stayed the same level, so I hadn't felt it continually escalating.

Yeah.

I went home and went to bed.

You were able to sleep, I was, Yeah.

I was able to sleep, which probably should have been the first education.

And then I woke up and they'd.

Gone, oh so it stopped.

Yeah, it stopped.

It just it stopped, and I thought, oh, okay, fine, and I think I was due that day.

Anyway, I had an appointment with their FM that day with my midwife, and so she did another check and she's like, yeah, well you're four centimeters and I'm like, okay, but it's stopped now.

She's like, okay, well, yeah, i'd put money on it, like starting up again, you know this evening or tomorrow morning.

You know you're going to be having it soon.

It was okay, fine, Yep.

They did keep coming back regular, to the point where I really couldn't walk around, and sometimes I was having it like, you know, three or four hours at a time during the day, but it never progressed, and so it went on like that for almost three weeks.

Okay, Courtney, I'm sorry, why didn't you just get the potocin in an every jural?

I don't understand.

I don't know.

I think because I think because the whole state of my pregnancy, at least from like the progesterone and short cervix had been the mantra was try and keep him in there for as long as possible, like make it to the latest date you can.

So that was the kind of that was the goal that I had focused on.

I was like, Okay, i'll think about that.

I'll just try and keep him in for as long as possible.

And I think it was really hard to switch that off.

Yeah, I don't know.

Maybe I was really just wedded to that.

I really just want it to happen naturally.

I don't want to go for the induction because I found that a lot more painful than the you know, spontaneous one.

Yeah, and I'm sorry, I don't want that to sound judgmental at all, Like I'm so people should have their kids exactly how they want to, but I know that I've had that before that really long labor, and by the end of it, I was like, just get this child out of me.

So I it's more me taking my hat off to you for dealing with that for three weeks.

Oh, I don't deserve any medals.

I genuinely also think too.

I think because everyone every time, like and I saw heaps of people during that, like I kept having checkups and stretch and sweeps and everything else like that, and everyone just kept saying any day now, like you're not making due date.

And eventually, after about you know, like ten days of it, I was too afraid to push hard on the toilet because I thought I was like going to push him out, and it just it didn't happen.

So eventually I was like, hey, okay, let's book this induction because like clearly it's you know.

And then they're like, oh, yeah, we haven't got me flo end.

The induction got booked for the day after I was due, so forty plus one, and they were like, oh and still this is after being in a state for like, you know, ten days, twelve days, They're like, oh, doubt you'll make it.

There's no way you'll make it to the induction day.

You'll definitely have the baby before them.

And I think the key thing here is your water hadn't broken, no, it happened, which is why they were allowing you to go for that sort of three weeks because absolutely, if your water had broken, they would have insisted on you delivering the baby.

But you were just having contractions and you had that prodromal labor for three weeks.

Yeah.

So I was basically walking around like with adult diapers on because I was really conscious.

I was like, hey, I want to be mindful that if I do actually feel like I've lost some you know, amniotic fluid or some waters like, that's where it now tends to get very risky.

So I wasn't doing much.

I couldn't couldn't do anything, couldn't walk anywhere.

Yes, all I really, all I could really do during that period was just go on ten hooks.

Is it happening?

Isn't happened anyway?

I didn't, So on the induction day, I waited and waited and waited for them to call me and tell me, okay, you can come in now.

And finally at three pm they were like coming out, and I was so ready.

I was like, I am birthing this baby two days.

I bet it is happening.

So they hook you up, do they just give you the protosins throw away or did you have like the tap?

Now I didn't need any of that because I was like, I was four centimeters, So I think they were convinced that actually, you know, I really wouldn't be on it for very long and then all of a sudden they would be showtime.

But once I got in there, actually before I even before they even did even to me, there was a lovely student midwife who did my canula and I'm a bleeder, and anyway, I bled and I think she'd had a long day, so she came over a bit funny and sort of fainted.

And the other beautiful midwife, Pasha, she was she was like, Oh, it's okay, And Michael's like, oh, look, I think she's just you know, she's okay, Like I think she's had a vasovagel or something.

And anyway, one of the ward leaders came in and saw that obviously the midwife was on the floor, so she's pushed the emergency call.

Well that was high drama because suddenly there's twenty to thirty people inside the room, like coming in everyone like you know, crash carts and being like and looking at me on the bed.

At this point, I'm still like fully dressed, like just happy as Larry on the bed.

Nothing has started, but looking at me like, you know, thinking, and I'm like, it's not me, it's the lady behind behind the bed that sort of fainted.

So unfortunately that delayed things by about an hour.

And she was fine.

She was absolutely fine.

It was just sort of a dramatic start to the evening.

But it also meant that by the time, like we actually got the drip in, it was like five o'clock and I was like, this, it's happening today.

It has to happen today.

He's getting born to bury it.

I was raising myself and I kept saying, Dapasha.

I was like, turn that drip up, let's get this going.

I'm having this baby.

And by six point thirty she checks and I'm like, what am I nowt what am I check?

What am I?

She's like five centimeteres.

I'm like, oh, man, okay.

And you're still no durrel, You're still just doing this sign.

Yeah.

It still hadn't really escalated beyond what I've been feeling for the last you know, three weeks.

So I'm sitting there going, no, this is fine.

I can chat, it's not a problem.

And then forty five minutes later she goes, you know, you want an EPI durol because I'd had an EPI durol with my previous two and that is my birth plan EPI durl.

So I was like, just EPI dural is on the carts and I made her write that up on the board and I was like, Pasha, you need to know that I'm having an EPI drool at seven, yeah, quarter past seven.

She's like, hey, are you going and I'm like, yeah, look at this is still okay.

I think I'm still okay.

And she's like, look, you want an EPI durol.

We perhaps order it up anyway, just you know, it might take a little while just to make sure.

So I was like, cool, go do that.

That's fine.

So she went out, she came back in, and then it sort of as she she came back in, you know, five minutes later, I was like, oh, okay, this is yeah mm hmm, this is really this is really going on now.

And I was like, oh okay, yeah.

I was like, Pasha, I need that EPI durol now, like can you get back out there?

And saw that She's like okay, all right, so she and thankfully I had a beautiful student midwife with me, Gabby.

So there's still someone in the room and Michael, we're still there.

And as she left the room, you know, they were trying to move me position wise and they're like, I'll get back up on the bed.

And I was like, oh, Gabby, this isn't comfortable.

I can't this is not working.

I can't do this.

But I can't sit.

And as I was starting to get off the bed, I was like, ohh and I've I've had nothing, like I've had no pain relief, no gas, no nothing at this point.

So I could really feel it and I was like, oh my god, Gabby, I can feel it, like I could feel the head down now.

So I'm standing next to the bed and I've got my legs like press so hard together because I'm like, oh my god, oh my god.

And she was like, don't be silly.

It's not the head yet.

You're you're fine, Like it's you're okay, and I was like no, genuinely.

She was like, just pull your legs apart, and I was like I can't.

He's gonna fall out, like his head is there.

And anyway, so she managed to sort of get it a little bit apart and have a look.

She's like, oh, yeah, the head's there.

I was in shock because I was like, I can't I can't do this.

I can't do this without an EPI driol.

I've never done this, bet an epi durriol.

I need an EPI driol, Like, I can't do it.

And the pain was so intense and I'd never felt that before, and I was screaming.

I was like, oh my god, I can't do it.

And so I'm yelling at Michael.

I'm like, yet, Pasha back in here.

And so Pasha came back in and she was like, oh, okay, what's going on.

So I think she got behind me and Gabby was in front of me, and they were like, okay, we're both in position.

Now open your legs a bit and then just see if you can just do a little just do a little push.

And so I managed to, like, you know, get my legs apart.

And I'm not even confident that I pushed.

I'm not even sure that it was actually any type of effort on my behalf.

But he shot out of me like a rocket, and all of the amniotic fluid like came out behind him, and they did so well that they caught him because I was standing and they like, they just they did such a great job of catching him.

And I just had that flood of relief that pain was over because it had been I mean, it is so embarrassing.

It had been twelve minutes.

That's it.

It had been twelve minutes of that is all I felt.

Wow.

But I was just aside myself that it was so painful, and I had actually forgotten there was a baby, like I'd forgotten that that was the result at the end of it.

And then he cried, and I got shocked because I was like, oh my god, there's there's a baby.

Like I was in such relief that the pain was over.

And then they're sort of handing him up to me, and I'm still standing and like it's super awkward to be standing and then like them handing you a baby after you've just given it, and I was like, oh okay.

And I held him and I remember thinking and I said to them, I'm like, he's so little, he's so little.

Well the two went this little, he's so little, and they're like, he's not that little, and he wasn't that little he was three point seven or something.

So yes, I was in shock still that he was actually there.

And then unfortunately I had torn quite significantly because he had come so quickly.

Yeah.

Wow, so we had to deal with that.

Well, well done to you for doing it.

I mean, it's amazing what we can do when we don't real but it really went from zero to one hundred very quickly for you.

Oh yeah, it escalated, and I mean for me it was kind of honestly, I know it's awful, but that twelve minutes and I was like, oh my god.

You know those women who do do it pain free, Oh my god, and do it and do it a second time pain free.

My hat's off to you.

If I had done that with my first child, I would be avoiding every I'd be like asking for the epiduralist and as I present the hospital because that was it was not fun.

Yeah, it was twelve minutes, which is ridiculous, because you can do anything for twelve minutes.

No, I would have traded anything in that position to have had the everdural on board.

But you recovered, okay, they obviously stitched you up when you finally kind of realized what had happened.

What was it like to see him for the first time.

I really can't remember him being on my chest for very I can't really remember that sort of first cuddle because I'd torn quite badly and they were stitching that up, and then I was also getting cord blood collection happening, and I was leading quite a lot, and I passed a clock the size of my fist, and so the decision was made pretty quickly for Michael to take Lockie and they were just sort of, you know, they were doing lots of fundle massage and stitching me and trying to get the bleeding under control and trying to get the tear sitch up as best as possible.

And I'd always had the epidural like on board for that after birth.

That was horrific.

It was horrific.

I had the funder massage for like up to three or four hours after and it was just I was crying through it, like it was.

It wasn't probably really until kind of the next morning that I really had that moment of being like, oh, you're here and we have you and your and everything's fine, and you know now it's now you're in our lives and you know, and from then on like it was, it was beautiful.

Yeah, so Lucky is nine months old.

You've recovered.

Now that you've I'm assuming finished having children, what is the next steps with your health?

Yeah, well so the hysterectomy has been rebooked.

It is now also in like three weeks time.

So yes, very much looking forward to getting that done and sort of closing that chapter and returned to okay, you know, making healthy decisions that they suit me.

And yeah, but he's an absolute delight.

He is a dream baby.

Oh wonderful, we got so lucky.

Yeah, well, congratulations and hopefully Margo hasn't gotten into the bedside table over the last.

Wait, no, trust me, I don't know.

We very much made sure that that was not going to be a repeated mistake.

And yeah, there's no chance and no chance of that happening again.

Oh wow.

Well, Lockie has some great stories to tell when he is a little bit older.

It's been a delight to talk to you and hear about LOCKI and I hope that your surgery goes well and that you recover well.

Thank you and thank you so much for sharing your story with us.

Oh, thank you so much.

It's been my expert pleasure.

Diary of a Birth was hosted by me kiss Enya Lukic.

We are going to be taking a little bit of a break from Diary of a Birth for now, and I wanted to say personally thank you so much to everybody for listening and enjoying this podcast as much as I've enjoyed recording it.

We do want to keep hearing your story, so if you have anything you want to share, please send us an email.

The details are in the show notes.

This episode was

Produced by Ella Maitland and myself, Kissenya Lukich, with audio production by Tina Mattalov.