Charlie Robinson (00:01.854) Welcome to Macroaggressions, I'm your host Charlie Robinson. If you're watching us on Rumble, Band.video, Vigilante TV, now back on YouTube, or you're listening wherever podcasts are served, thanks a million, we appreciate your support. Macroaggressions.io is the website, you can find out everything about what we're doing with the shows and the podcasts, the books, the news sites like Activist Post and Natural Blaze, please go bookmark those, there's outstanding information happening over there and I'll tell you what, also, go to Activist Post, When you're reading the articles, there's an opportunity for you to sign up for the email list. Please do that. It's not spam. It's really good stuff. You're going to get a Sunday post weekly wrap up of top stories of the week. And then on Wednesday, you're going to get an email called the solution series. It's fantastic. It's actionable information for you. 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So if you need your last will and testament, directive, power of attorney, financial and medical, knock that stuff out right away. You know, with the new year coming up, I know there's a million things you need to do. Probably don't want to do this, but if you don't have your documentation in line, you got to do it. Legal Shield can help. Go to don'tgetpushedaround.com. That's the website. specifically for this show, read up about it, see what you think, there's something you like, pull the trigger. You will not be disappointed. I've been a member of LegalShield now for three years. I use them all the time. It's the best money you'll spend. So check it out. Don'tGetPushedAround.com. All right, back on the program. Our friend, whenever we have tech issues, we're have to have Hakeem Anwar on from Take Back Our Tech and Above Phone. Do you have an Above Phone, everybody? You should get one. I've got one here. I'll show you. To those... Hakeem Anwar (03:06.478) you Charlie Robinson (03:17.194) To those of you watching, I got one right here on my hands. You should check it out. Ladies and gentlemen, Hakeem Anwar. Hi, Hakeem. Good to see you again. What's cookin'? Hakeem Anwar (03:24.386) Charlie, it's good to be back my man. I wish there was less tech issues. Seems like things are breaking down every week now. We have that cloud flare outage this week and yeah, people just gotta stay on their toes. So I'm glad you have an above phone. You probably never felt the impacts from that. Charlie Robinson (03:30.998) Hi. Charlie Robinson (03:46.56) Well, yeah, that's the thing is that we're gonna face problems and they're gonna throw issues our way and we're aware of it and we know what's happening. But the good news is there are solutions. It's one thing if we just didn't have, if it was over and there was nothing that we could do. But it's part of why we've been sending out, I was just mentioning the email newsletter and of course we've sent those out with mentioning above phone as well. And that's because like, if it was just about complaining, about how bad things have gotten. Like I could do that, you know, Alex Jones level. I could really go to town on that. I, you know, if you just do that and then at the end someone says, great, now what do we do about it? And you don't have an answer. Then it's kind of like you're just scaring people for no reason. And I don't want to do that. So I love that we have solutions to these problems. And I've been telling everybody that I know about above phone and, know, and things like that. Like it's a real problem. you're getting spied on, everybody knows this. We've actually, not only do we know it, we've sort of allowed it. We've kind of like allocated like, well, yeah, they're gonna steal this information, but I'm not saying anything important. Or maybe they'll read this email, but who's really gonna read it? They don't know anything. So you justify it and you make these excuses in your head. And then somebody says, why are you doing it? It doesn't have to be that way. You could do things differently. And someone like... Hakim runs in, you I run into you and you're like, why aren't you doing it this way? I'm like, because I didn't know this was an option. And now that I know it's an option, what do you know? We got a solution. So I'm glad that we're talking. I'm glad that we're, because when I saw the thing this week about the Samsung, the Israeli spyware embedded in the Samsung phone, I was like, bet above phone doesn't have that. I bet they don't have problems with Israeli spyware being forcibly installed into their phones. So. Hakeem Anwar (05:37.256) Yeah Charlie Robinson (05:40.659) What did you make of that? Did you see that this week? What did make of that? Hakeem Anwar (05:44.639) Yeah, I read a little bit about it and so for for Anyone who hasn't heard about the story, they discovered this new family of apps in Samsung phones and in different different countries, not necessarily America. But so it's this app that can't be uninstalled. It's called Iron, Iron Forge, Iron Source. But essentially like when a manufacturer like Samsung comes out with a phone, they're allowed to make these types of agreements with different app providers and they can actually give these apps system level permissions. So That it's not like a normal app on your phone. It already is granted every permission it needs like location microphone Whatever right you name it already has access to it There's no way to remove those permissions even if you never turn the app on once it's just kind of silently sitting in the background So if anyone's ever gotten a Samsung phone, you'll see this is the case with Facebook Facebook is just like yes I'm here you use me right, but there's no way to remove it and So they found that an Australia company owned one of these apps. what that means is that this is a data aggregator and what they do is they collect data on you. Like it could be wherever you're moving about in the world. It could be the microphone if it has access to that. And typically what happens is data gets packaged up, organized and sold to companies like Fogg Data Science or Ventel, which then turn around and sell it to federal, state, local law enforcement and also to other groups that are just kind of like NSO, Pegasus, Spyware, right? This data is really useful to them. Whoever, the highest bidder, they'll sell it to them. So that's how it works with those little, undescript apps you don't think much of, but can't be removed. Charlie Robinson (07:34.23) That's a problem. And then we had the Vault 7 CIA release of documents and we saw what they were doing up until 2013 and that was really eye-opening for me because you know, I learned that they have like air gap technology like they can air gap phones and you know, whatever you thought that they couldn't do it turned out that with this release of Vault 7 Yeah, they could do it and they've been doing it for a while and then it kind of cut off I guess at 2013, so we don't know what they're doing for a dozen years since then. But that made me just think that everything is bugged, right? And then I start reading, they say, well, the CIA had the routers bugged, they had the routers compromised. So it's like, well, I've got a VPN and I've got this and I've got that and all that stuff down the line, but it's like, yeah, but they've got the routers compromised. How do you even defend against that when they're- Hakeem Anwar (08:21.73) Yeah. Charlie Robinson (08:31.618) when they've got you at the hardware level. Hakeem Anwar (08:35.138) Yeah, it's a question. So I think when it comes to these leaks too, you have to like question the information you're being presented because if there's also that aspect of them, wanting you to believe that they have this much power and whether that you're just going to take that on face value. do think that's an aspect of it. Not saying that they don't have immense surveillance capabilities. They absolutely do. But there is a point at which it stops. Cause you have to remember a lot of these projects in the Walt seven leaks. are basically like CIA like startup guys are like, okay, let's let's see if we can do this. And, and they do it once and maybe an isolated setting. And maybe there's a prototype available for people to use. Does that prototype mean it's actually in use? Is it used on a wide scale? Is it used to just target people? And what what the answer I've seen over and over again, for people who are kind of like this, they're like, well, why would I even get this? You know, there's probably a backdoor. Well, no one can really promise that there's no backdoor. doors and anything, but you have to be able to prove that it is accessed on an ongoing basis. So I try not to get super far down the rabbit hole with those types of things until I see a substantial proof that this is a thing and then you can do something to deal with it. Now what we do have proof of is that mass surveillance happens through our consent. It happens through collaboration with these big tech companies and there's so much information already being captured. What do they need these back doors for really? really Hakeem Anwar (10:36.911) when they find is if they ever magically backdoor your device or something, they're just going to find, this guy is trading eggs for bread. And it's a massive waste of time for them, right? So that's the approach I take. And I think with enough people using open source D Google technology, which deals with the major threats to mobile privacy, it's useless for them, right? They just simply don't have the resources and manpower to go for these targeted attacks on large groups of people. Charlie Robinson (11:12.885) Well, I guess that's comforting in some respects that you, know, you, you, but also like people make this calculation. go, yeah, I'm being spied on here. I'm being spied on there. I go through the TSA. They're scanning my eyeballs. They know who I am. Like they kind of, you know, I use my credit card everywhere. You know, they know who I am. What's the, you know, everyone's looking at me. Everyone's spying on me. What's the big deal now? You know, it's almost like when 10 people are spying on you, you throw your hands up and go, what am I gonna do? Like, I can't stop this, you know? So it feels kind of like people have made a calculation or they've just said, they know that they're losing their information and either they don't have a value on that, like it doesn't mean much to them or they don't know what they don't know. Maybe that's what it is. They don't know the Hakeem Anwar (12:01.005) Yeah. Charlie Robinson (12:10.409) the depths of how bad something like this could get and they're normies and they say, well, I'm not doing anything wrong. if you're doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide. And that becomes like the beginning of, I don't know, minority reporters or something like that, you know, where you think that you're not a target, but just by being alive and generating data, you're worth something to them. Hakeem Anwar (12:33.195) Right. And, and we're, And we're, you know, we're getting to that point. Like people don't realize this is a very long game when it comes to surveillance. So they think about these 10 different groups that are collecting data on them, which, you know, if you dial into it, it is really, there's so much of it that can be cut off. mostly happens through consent. Even the stuff at the TSA line happens through your consent and you can at least right now opt out from it. And I understand it's really easy to give up. in the face of all these parties working against you, but you have to also understand there's a big impact from your decision. It's like the butterfly effect. If you're using this device or if you're opting in, every single person who opts in makes it easier for this beast to grow, this Hydra to grow. More people using iMessage makes it more convenient to use iMessage, right? So you have to understand the systems level impacts of you choosing your device. It seems like very trivial. It's not. because every device you use, think about that microphone data being recorded, think about how it's scanning your messages with AI, which is now just acceptable, like in the span of a few weeks, it's now just acceptable. And then think about where that data is stored. It's on that data center being built in poor areas around the country. And suddenly, hey, that data center only exists because millions of people decided to consent to this. And now they're clean, fresh water. from their aquifers is being just drank straight up into the data centers. They're at risk of losing their power and their water simply because of a stupid choice as simple as getting a phone. So I do ask people to think about the larger impacts. It's not just an individual thing. This is a societal thing. And we have to think about the bigger picture when we're moving in and to be more private. Charlie Robinson (14:34.579) Well, and the bigger picture is something that you've put together, this life under digital ID that you put out. document, like if you're generating information and it's going to Bluffdale, Utah and it's in that big storage facility and it's just sitting there, that's one thing. But once they create a digital voodoo doll of you, an identity of you, and then ultimately push into this digital ID world, then you have an ID and now you've got all that information that was out there sitting and it gets connected to your ID and all of a sudden it's backfilled everything about you into this new digital twin of you. What is the future of this digital ID? Because I keep hearing, obviously I've listened to Whitney and... Hakeem Anwar (15:17.099) Yeah. Charlie Robinson (15:29.737) Ryan and Derek and you guys are all kind of talking about the digital ID and I wonder, you know, and there's a lot of things to be concerned about out there in the world and some things will be a big deal and some things maybe won't. But this digital ID feels like the linchpin that makes it all work, right? Like if you don't have the digital ID system put in place, that the future plans that they have might not actually work the way they want them to work. So can we talk a little bit about what... the digital ID program is like how they envision this for us and what maybe the future is of this worldwide, not just limited to the United States, of course, but worldwide. Hakeem Anwar (16:10.189) Yeah, absolutely. And just to qualify kind of my work on this is I had these same questions about six months ago, and I decided I want to get it get to the bottom of it. Is there a way to run from digital ID? What is it going to look like? What does it look like in different countries? And in the end, where is it all going? And so I think I've managed to do that in this report. We looked at six different continents of digital ID programs in these places, the differences between them. And there was two qualities that kept popping up. The reason for digital ID is to have a cryptographical way to verify information about someone. What this looks like is that there's a trusted party, whether it be a government or a big tech company or even an academic institution, that can create a certificate for you. Someone else can scan the certificate and be like, okay, hey, this information comes from a trusted source. Digital ID, it's been 20 years in making. And now the technologies we have today, they're not just something one country is working on. These are standards. So the EU has its own shared standard. And then other countries have their own mechanism. But the way I try to define it is that digital IDs interoperable. So it's not just used at the government office or in place of a driving license, but it could also be used to access the web. Right. So it's interoperable. That's a really key part of this. And to the point where or anything, you could affirm anything about anyone and it could be captured in a digital ID. So it could be that Frank graduated from the University of Iowa and he is working as an accountant and he has adopted this daughter who also has a digital ID, but she doesn't have it on his own because Frank owns it, right? So it begins to become this web of different credentials that can tie together in one digital ID. Now it's still really early on in Hakeem Anwar (18:22.638) this of people use them. There's places like India where it's the same. China, you could argue, has already had digital ID for a while. But the things you begin to see is when this system is rolled out and everybody is using it, you don't have a life. don't have a life outside of digital ID. And so that's why the report is called Life Under Digital ID. And they like to say, the United Nations, the World Bank, they always like to try and make it a cause by saying, hey, you have the right to a digital ID, we don't want to exclude you from all these services, right? To education, health care, travel. But they never bring up how digital, what really fundamentally makes a digital ID a requirement for these services and why are cutting off people from these things? And so I think it's just a perfect example. You see the World Bank pouring in billions of dollars. gave Nigeria $430 million to start the foundation for the digital ID. There are people in Nigeria going around to the most remote villages where you think about it, these people have never been documented, right? They don't have papers, there's nothing. And so they're going around there with cameras, biometric cameras, and trying to enroll them, trying to enroll kids at birth. There is no place you can run to escape this thing. It is a COVID level operation. Charlie Robinson (19:46.771) And I saw that the retail component of it rolled out earlier this week with Apple talking about digital IDs. And so you can see how there's the push, you know, like, like, like the government will try to push you into it. But that's, that's only so effective. If you get Apple to pull you into it, you know, I mean, then everyone just kind of runs right in because they say, well, it's Apple. I've already got an iPhone. I've got this. It's easy. It's tied to my account. I can make my Apple wallet. We've already got an Apple wallet. We've normalized that. Right, it's, and if you've got a digital wallet and a physical wallet, I look at my physical wallet, I have a driver's license there, why don't I have a driver's license in my digital wallet? So if you're just saying this is the direction it's going, right, it's just the evolution of technology, nothing nefarious here, we're just keeping up with the times, I understand how digital stuff, I'm not afraid of it, I can do it, right? So people are incentivized that for a variety of reasons. One, it's just the evolution. tech gadgets, those tech guys who like gadgets and things like that may be like, this is great. know, I'll be an early adopter into this slave system, I guess, I don't know. But this idea that you're gonna draw people into the digital ID system. And some people would say, well, that'd be crazy. No one will sign up for that. Boy, they're wrong. After COVID, we saw how easily people can be manipulated into this. Hakeem Anwar (20:54.711) This is. Hakeem Anwar (21:04.557) do. Yeah. Charlie Robinson (21:10.174) And I did not know that Estonia and Denmark were that far down the road with this. What does their society look like so far after they've... I mean, I China's maybe not the best example because I culturally, technologically, ideologically, they're sort of incompatible. But if we're looking at people in the Nordic regions and they've installed this, what's the response been from the people so far? Hakeem Anwar (21:36.302) Well, they don't really complain. And I've talked to young people in places like the Czech Republic, which also have a digital ID, to see what they think. And yeah, it's like what you said, it's very casual. Like, hey, I want to go out drinking. Yeah, just makes my life easier. Yeah, they totally buy in to the messaging. But I want to tell people where this is all really heading, because this is what matters. And you can look to countries that are actively participating in a war, like Russia. Russia's digital ID system Hakeem Anwar (23:06.447) anywhere, anytime, for anything you might have done wrong. That's another big component to these digital ID systems. It's part of a larger framework called digital public infrastructure, which is a concept by the United Nations Development Program. Digital ID is the first thing, like you correctly pointed out, it's the linchpin that makes unified payments and also data exchange possible. So these three things work together and the data exchange Hakeem Anwar (24:06.223) there's no way in hell I'm going to do that. I would say people really need to be careful of tying their legal identity with their biometric identity. Because once you have done that, there's no oopsies, take backs. No, there's nothing. Once you've done that, they can create a digital ID for you. It really doesn't even matter. They're able to legally identify you on any biometric based camera or anything like that. It's just done. You don't have to install an app on your phone. to do anything. It already exists for you and it can be used against you as soon as the technology gets there. Charlie Robinson (24:42.516) Holy shit, that is terrifying. You mentioned the United Nations Development Group. Who are they bringing in? Who are the partners of this massive, because this is a huge undertaking, of course, this digital infrastructure. If you're the United Nations and you're trying to put together a biometric web, I wonder who their partners are for this. This seems like something that would take a... It would require a lot of money, a lot of time. Yeah. Damn. Hakeem Anwar (25:13.805) expertise. Hakeem Anwar (25:19.181) There's I mean, so yeah, at the highest levels, it's it's the same players you would expect Bill Gates, of course, is always going to be in everything that's evil. His name is usually attached to it. So Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the World Bank, they have initiatives like the Identification for Development ID 40, which they used one of the funding arms for the World Bank and they give billions of dollars to poorer countries. So if you think that I'm going to go to South America, you know, they're they're behind in tech? No, well, because the World Bank has given them money so they can do this stuff. For instance, the whole thing about Mexico requiring digital ID was a big story this year. Well, it turns out the World Bank gave them $200 million to get that kickstarted, right? So these are very globalist plays. And there's also things like 50 in 5, which is 50 different countries working on different parts of their digital public infrastructure. They've made a pact to do it. And this is all going under the Hakeem Anwar (26:49.031) with opportunities in the future to create a digital ID, whether you know it or not. This could be the KYC when you sign into your bank account. It's going to ask you, hey, let us just verify your face real quick and verify your documents as soon as you tie that legal identity with the biometric identity. It's done. We've seen this happen in Russia. Australia similarly used the driver's license database to do this. In several states right now, Texas, Florida, Wyoming, Now biometric cameras are a part of driver license renewals. the the so there's there's no way to get around it. I wish I had known for my friends living in these states or I think Colorado is part of this too, actually. I wish I had known earlier, but I would I would tell people now is if you have to renew your ID is to go as far out in the country as you possibly can to a office that doesn't have these biometric cameras. There's many different ways it can. be coming and you need to be really vigilant for it. Charlie Robinson (27:54.071) Yeah, I have a Colorado driver's license and they put the star on it for the real ID, but I didn't sign up for that. didn't ask for it. So when they went through and switched and they said, now, if you're going to be traveling, when you show your ID, it's got to have the real ID. It's got to have the star on it. You got to look to see it. I'm like, well, I don't have that. And I looked at my license like, oh, damn, I do. I didn't put that on there. I didn't ask for that. Hakeem Anwar (28:14.317) Yeah. Charlie Robinson (28:18.399) So do we even have a choice in some of this stuff? mean, right now we have a choice, right? We can opt out, but is there, what happens when we can't opt out or they take our information without our consent? I wonder what we do then. Hakeem Anwar (28:36.907) There's a little bit of a bright side like real ID isn't necessarily digital ID. So I could be wrong about Colorado, but you just look out for the cameras of the driving license offices of this AIDEMIA on it. That's one really big provider in the US. And yeah, I mean, eventually it'll work to just more and more coercive measures. Maybe they'll tease you and say, hey, you can, they already do this, right? You can wait. Yeah. can be in the short line at the airport, right? Everyone loves. convenience or hey, here's some fries for your digital ID to stop global warming or some shit like that. eventually, people will need to create the more valuable in person networks, not eventually like we have to do this one time, like one deadline that keeps coming up. And all the programs I researched in the world is 2027. The EU 2027 is the is the year where all companies must start accepting digital ideas as a form of identification. 2027 is also for Australia, an important deadline where companies must start accepting digital ID. And when we get to that stage, everything you do in your life will require this digital ID. I'll give you an example. I'm just predicting this in the future. And I think it's a pretty easy prediction to make. If you go into a grocery store and you see those doors at the beginning that they have now with like a little terminal that doesn't do anything, it literally just opens up. That eventually, is going to have a digital ID in it. So just prepare for the future in which every public service, good utility, groceries might be behind a digital ID. And what I'm telling people to do now is to go out in their local communities, farmers markets, whatever it is, and inform people that this is happening. And also to make a pact, a handshake that whatever happens, I won't let digital ID come between us and make sure you have all of your basic needs met. I mean, this is just general advice, but now with digital ID, Hakeem Anwar (30:41.575) it's become real. So I think that's the best thing, that's the best and only thing people can do right now, except from, you know, on top of opting out. And we need to do this. There's a timeline, right? Two years, about two years, not even two years, just about a year for us to do this. So I think there are bigger things in play as well that we just don't know. But this year of 2027 seems to be the more important thing. Charlie Robinson (31:11.604) Yeah, and that is a real important year because I think that we'll be in a war. I was talking about this with Sam Tripley yesterday about what if World War III already started? It just looks different than what we thought it was. We expect tanks on the corner, but it's really fifth generation warfare. It's psychological operations like the 4th Army Psi-Op unit ghosts in the machine and all of that. We've got economic warfare, we have all sorts of different tactics. I I think that when in your mind you're thinking the trenches of World War I, or you're thinking the battlefields of World War II, or the jungles of Vietnam, and then you go, well, if this is World War III, I'd know it, right? And maybe we didn't, maybe we wouldn't know it. Maybe this technical side is more devious and it's happening. Hakeem Anwar (31:46.977) Yeah. Charlie Robinson (32:08.415) right now, but we don't even know we're on the battlefield or that we're even participants. I the direction of technology that it's heading is, I think it's probably beyond most people's comprehension right now. I don't think people really understand either where we're going or what the ramifications are of where we're going, maybe until it's too late. So how do you, in your life, doing what you do when you come across normies that don't have this understanding, what's your approach to them? How do you talk to somebody who doesn't have the technical background that you have without scaring them to death, but trying to inform them and get them on the right track and reach these people? Hakeem Anwar (32:56.557) Yeah, that's a really good question. think the best thing to engage maybe people who don't have this worldview that we share is to talk about things that they do care about, like identity theft. You know, this is just kind of an obvious one. A lot of people have had their identity stolen by now or they know someone who's had. It's really hard. It really impacts your life. You have to deal with a lot. I mean, you get your money stolen. You might have to pay more taxes. Now imagine getting your biometric Hakeem Anwar (33:56.584) And I think that those issues are really important because people understand that. People do to a degree understand privacy. And to just say that there always needs to be an option. And in other countries like China, which is all these programs are modeled off of their social credit score system. They've definitely been inspired by that. Or in India, now there is no other option. Now it's hard to pay in cash. and companies have the ability to change your life and impact it across many different areas. I mean, you know, I think that I think that I think eventually people will get it. It's either like like they did with the COVID thing. It's either they'll get it early and be proactive or they'll get the stick part of it and get kicked in the ass and come back to you for help. So. Those are some good good ways, yeah? Charlie Robinson (35:22.999) Yeah, the social credit score system in China really freaked me out. watched a documentary, like a short documentary on it, that back, had to have been eight years ago. It wasn't any time really soon. And in the scenario that they used, they sent these reporters who were, they were working with the Chinese government to show the capabilities of the system. So they had one guy, who was, they had two reporters. One guy was with someone who was helping him test it out. And then they had somebody, a reporter back at that main headquarters who was looking at all the banks of the video screens and he was there with the people showing him how it all works. So what they did is they did a demo. The two guys that were out on the streets, the one guy got on the bus and lit up a cigarette and smoked a cigarette on the bus while he was with that reporter. Hakeem Anwar (36:17.569) You Charlie Robinson (36:21.271) and they got to their stop, they got off the bus, they're walking down the street and the guy's phone pinged and he goes, whoop, there we go, we got it. And he shows him, he had been scanned on the facial recognition on the bus, determined that he was smoking, found to be in violation of it. They connected it to his social credit account and they find him, pinged him and sent him a text message that he had been identified, caught and fined. and it was deducted out of his Weibo account and he showed it to him. And then the other guy is in the control center and they're showing him and the entire process took seven minutes. Hakeem Anwar (36:54.423) Wow. Hakeem Anwar (37:02.221) That's insane. Charlie Robinson (37:03.829) And that was eight years ago when I was watching that and it might've been filmed a year or two before that. So that's the social credit. I saw that in China and I go, okay, I can extrapolate out where this is going. And then I start to read it and go, well, that's, I make this calculation, that's China, right? And China is China and they're different. And then you read that they're exporting this technology to Ecuador. This was years ago. And I go, okay, hang on a second. It's no longer just China being China. Now it's getting exported everywhere and I got a bad feeling about this. And now years later, I see the follow-up videos and it's the people sleeping at the bus station because they can't get on the bus because their social credit score is too low. They can't get on a plane. They can't get a job. And they're essentially the homeless population of China is because they are now outside of the system. Is that the future for humanity with digital IDs potentially? Hakeem Anwar (37:35.159) come. Hakeem Anwar (38:00.448) Yeah, if they if they don't prepare for sure. And I think what you just shared is an excellent story to tell people about. Yeah, like a lot of people are going to be homeless or vagrants or just unable to interact with anything. Get a job, go to school, get a car. Yeah, all those things. So that's that's reasonable. And I think that you might almost predict that unless you take the measures now in the next the next year or so. Like it's super important. And I won't say I have all like, I don't think there's one single solution to it. I think we all have to be very, creative with the limited resources we have now. Could be like things like a bunch of people living on one property, which used to be common, you know, 100, 200 years ago, it's going to go back to sharing. And it's it's it's like the I forgot the name of the civilization of the society that lived on the outskirts of 1984, the city, the cities in 1984. But it will be a lot like that, right? There's people who live in the city and there's people who live out of the city. And if there is preparation done now with enough people, I think there can be resources outside of the digital ID system to lead for a good life. it's just... Charlie Robinson (39:16.119) Hope so. Hakeem Anwar (39:17.899) Yeah, and I think that I think there are cool tools and solutions to prepare us for that. That's that's kind of been my mission is to ensure that people have communications. They have ways to even do their education without having to go through centralized sites like Google or Apple. And I do think that I do think that there will be a life outside of digital ID. And you made me just get that the idea. That's probably the next report. need to do is to talk to people who live outside these places. Charlie Robinson (39:52.845) Well, for this report, can people just get it? Can people just download life under digital ID? Hakeem Anwar (40:00.652) Yeah, absolutely. If you go to abovephone.com slash digital, just put in your email, we'll email it to you. It's like a 30 page report, comes with an executive summary. It's pretty thorough and it's a really good resource to share with friends, family. So yeah, there's good information there and I think I'll be updating it every quarter that's still coming here. Charlie Robinson (40:25.336) Well, I'm looking at it right now. It's not limited to North America either, for those of you outside of the States, it's every country. I'm looking at the North America section though, and you've got a map there that breaks down each of the States, and then it's color coded and shows the types of IDs that are required. This is really great information for anybody that's trying to get a handle on this, they should definitely download this, it's free, right? You can just go get it and read through this mobile driver's license. are being rolled out throughout the major mobile wallet platforms. then you go into, God man, there's a lot of detail. Secure Technology Alliance tracks progress of the state of these driver's license. So you're tracking the states to see how they're implementing these license procedures and then reporting on that, each individual state. Hakeem Anwar (41:14.389) Yeah, and I like what I tried to do with this report. mean, it's not I'm finding organizations that have done good research. So in this case, it's a secure technology alliance and there's like links embedded into everything because yeah, you know, I've learned from you. I've learned from Derek and James Corbett. This is like open source journalism. So I try to make sure people have links to the primary sources because it's always going to change and my report won't be able to be accurate forever. So they have a good map of places that accept mobile. driving licenses. is the Apple or Google wallet, you know, that's accepted by the TSA. And so there's like 28 states so far that are working on this and will accept it as a form of identification. And then Colorado, Iowa, New York actually have pages where you can go and it's like, businesses that accept digital ID or my mobile driving license, you can just go into them. And with this new announcement too, that Apple did is like, Hakeem Anwar (42:44.129) the world bank is giving them money for. It's not for clean water or food or power or anything like that. Nope, billions of dollars for ID because this is the most important thing, obviously. So it's just kind of unrealing that scam that's happening everywhere in the world. Charlie Robinson (43:00.108) Well, you've got some adoption rate statistics here that are pretty low in the states. 1 % to 6%, Arizona tops out at 15 % adoption rate of these state level IDs. What's the adoption level like internationally? Is it easy? I'm assuming with Africa, like you said, it's like very poor, but yet they have this remarkable digital ID system that's rolling out, which is kind of, a little backwards to me, but. I guess if you realize that the ultimate goal of the United Nations is depopulation, then it makes a little bit more sense when you realize that why they want to everyone in Africa, because they're planning on eliminating them from the planet at some point here. But are there any countries where the adoption rates are extremely low? Or obviously China, the adoption rate is extremely high for this state level ID. But are there some countries that are putting up a fight or is this pretty much lockstep? internationally. Hakeem Anwar (44:02.165) So you asked. how many people in the are under digital ID? This is just napkin math, but everyone in India and China is, I didn't realize this how many people they had, but it's like 1.6 billion and 1.8 billion. They're all under their form of digital ID. So that's already half. It's already like almost 4 billion people on the planet. There's places like, places in the EU that people are starting to get enrolled into this. So I'd say half. of people on the planet are like this and sometimes you have to decipher it to as someone who has a digital ID created for them versus is actively using it. But to answer your question everyone wants to know where can I go to escape? Well you could go to Yemen or you can go to the war-torn Middle East or you could go to this country called Suriname and it's a very small country it's basically lawless. in South America, it's next to Brazil. They're not working on a digital ID program. And honestly, I watched a VLOG. Charlie Robinson (45:09.72) You are- you are- I had, God, what's his name? Jack Cruz, Dr. Jack Cruz on with me. You know who Dr. Jack Cruz is? And I interviewed him. He was in Suriname. And I'm like, what are you doing in Suriname? He says, I'm meeting with the government. I'm trying to get them on a Bitcoin standard. I was like, what? So he's like. Hakeem Anwar (45:18.54) cool. Yeah, yeah. Hakeem Anwar (45:30.541) Ha Charlie Robinson (45:32.742) So, I'm not surprised that they don't have it because he said that the person who was in charge there was young and was super based and was not into all this stuff. So I don't know, that of course can change. But it's funny that you mentioned that. It's one of the countries because Jack was down there trying to get them up to speed. He said he was down there writing their constitution for them. I was like, are you allowed to do that? He's like, they invited me to. Hakeem Anwar (45:35.533) Yeah. Hakeem Anwar (45:56.321) see they don't even have a constitution that's That's crazy. Yeah. I mean, maybe I'll look more into it. When I researched, I understood that there really wasn't a government and most of the country was lawless, which I was like, oh, that's great. That's the best type of government. So of course there's no digital ID program there. And I hope they get on a Bitcoin standard, but I hope it's done as voluntarily as possible. And also it's really cool because there's a bunch of like immigrant, I wouldn't say immigrants. Now they're a part of Suriname, but from like China and India. So dude, the food, the food is on fire there. I just saw logs. Charlie Robinson (46:08.868) huh. Hakeem Anwar (46:30.8) But no one wants to move to the Amazon rainforest. No one wants to move to a war-torn country. You know, we want to stay in our own countries and So unfortunately, there's there's no way there's nowhere to go. There's nowhere to run Hakeem Anwar (46:48.012) And this is actually... Come on. Charlie Robinson (46:48.121) Trump was talking about something this week. He was talking about a single AI standard that's not state level, but it's standardized. Where are we going with AI? everyone, depending on who you talk to, there's optimism in that industry. There's terrifying fear of it remaking society too quickly and removing a lot of jobs. no fan of Trump, but he's talking about state level AI standards. And I get a little freaked out by that. What is this? What's your take on the emergence of AI and how that's going to be a variable in all of this stuff? Hakeem Anwar (47:37.871) Yeah, so I haven't been keeping up with this, but this is I'm just reading about it now. And it seems like a way to overrule any state level rules that could be put in place to protect. Well, to protect people from AI, especially these AI companies that run personalized AI that kids are talking to and getting encouraged to commit suicide, all that kind of stuff. So I think when he says the federal standards, he might mean a technical standard, but really he means a single legislative standard that all AI companies have to abide by. And of course, that's going to be very light enforcement on the companies that would be aligned with his previous. I think he tried to have an executive order that prevented any laws against federal AI projects. So I really think this is... Charlie Robinson (48:34.541) Yeah, that was early on. Hakeem Anwar (48:36.746) I would say it's a revival of this. the reason is, is because AI is really necessary to process this amount of data coming out. That's why all these data centers are being built. But so these federal AI systems can now be rolled out into surveillance systems. And I would imagine that it's a way for data sharing to be really, really easy. This data exchange process. You driving your car in Nebraska should be able to have a very compatible way. to share that information with whatever happens in Texas or California. So this is just, I haven't read the bill. It's just kind of my intuition. And this is the type of centralization Trump has been pushing for. So it seems more of the part. Charlie Robinson (49:24.397) What about the, what is the future of decentralized, what's the future of digital currency in general? But then we have, there's a massive need for decentralized, private currency. Is the US dollar gonna turn digital here and we're all gonna wind up sort of in this centralized currency component or is there room for Monero? some of these privacy coins that sit outside of the system to operate as well? Or is that the only way you're going to be able to conduct business if you're outside of the social credit system, sleeping in bus stops and things like that? Hakeem Anwar (50:06.818) Yeah, those bus stops are not very comfortable. Well, so so yeah, I've been light on the solutions aspect. I think when it comes to the US, we will have a CBDC that's not it's just everything. It is a CBDC accepted name with a tether and the different stable coins. Also, these payment apps like Apple Pay, Google Pay, this is all that is needed. We don't even need a CBDC if we have these payment apps. These are all programmable. is all programmable money. that's the second component of digital public infrastructure is this unified payments. In India everyone use this unified payment infrastructure. I think it does something like 8,000 transactions per second and so everyone pays for things on their phones. Now we're quickly arriving at that point. People already do this here in the US. It's not necessarily tied to a digital ID so we're going to see that and the recommendations I have for people are to get fluent technically literate with things like Monero and even Bitcoin and Zano, which I know you've had Aaron Day to talk about on to talk about Zano. But I think now it's like you really need to spend the time to learn how this works, how money goes in and out of it. One tool I encourage people to use is something called Havno, H-A-V-E, Haven, Haven-o-Rito, which is a peer to peer Monero. and silver, but more importantly, real assets like land, cars, means of production. I believe that everyone should have a business and put your money into your business so you can provide something of value that isn't reliant on the internet. I think that crypto holds a special place in my heart because it is still what people use to completely circumvent state laws and regulations and also to send large amounts of money just very long distances. So have no Hakeem Anwar (52:36.368) Aureeto is a really cool platform. I definitely encourage people to check that out. Charlie Robinson (52:41.85) Nice. Yeah. Well, mean, Western Union's been ripping people off for a long, long time. They've got a business model that's predatory. It's nice to see, you know, the people who send their money overseas find a different way to do it that costs them a fraction of a penny and instead of, you know, 30 % or 8 % or whatever Western Union charges, which is predatory. Let's wrap up with this. What is going on? What's new with above phone? What are you guys doing? What's what are you working on? What's happening? We got We have Christmas coming up. have ho, ho, ho, better get yourself some above phones, right? What's the Christmas situation looking like? Gadget time. Hakeem Anwar (53:22.114) Yeah, you know the best gift for Christmas would be protection from digital ID and mass surveillance and all of these things that take take away your peace of mind. So yeah, I mean for people who don't know the founder and CEO of above phone, we've been working on privacy solutions that aren't just alternatives but are bigger better than big tech. And the new thing I have for Christmas is actually a private local AI laptop and I've got it pulled up here. This is actually using Mike Adams, Enoch AI, which you should definitely try and chat with them about this, but this is really cool because it's an AI train. Charlie Robinson (54:03.192) I'm talking to Mike's having me on his show in two weeks. be on there to talk to, I haven't met Mike before, but I'm dying to talk to him about that. Hakeem Anwar (54:07.693) Amazing. Hakeem Anwar (54:12.567) Dude, yeah, so I mean, it's really, really cool. So he trained it on millions of pages of health, natural health content and survival content. So I asked it the other day, how can I dig my own well? I to minimize the costs. How can I find the best spot on the land? And that gave me an outline of how I can find a place, what I need to keep in mind and the tools I need to buy. I think it got the cost wrong, but this is still really, really impressive, right? Now I have a good plan of action in place when I'm ready to dig really solid and right. So the cool part is, is we have a new series of laptops that are called Quantum and they are, they have a built in GPU, a really nice next generation GPU. So you can run these models really fast, right? I'm getting eight tokens a second, which is really fast for a huge, I think this is 72 billion parameter model. So you can do this on the laptops. You can also run this on the phones as well. So we have an easy guide that shows you how you can run this AI. on the phones and laptops. And as more information gets pulled down online, you're more and more you're going to turn to things like these to help you with your research or maybe to even give you the answer. It's really cool because it's an interactive learning tool and it's private. So we will have this laptop available for sale this Christmas. If you go to abovephone.com, you'll see the banner at the top of the page during Christmas. And yeah, you'll just see our promotion there. And if you want more information, look for this webinar called Rise Above, where I give you a hands on look at what the phone can do, how you can navigate completely offline, how you can download videos from YouTube, and it really explains the extent of the surveillance and what this phone does to protect you. There is no phone that is more secure and private and runs completely on open source technology. So this is something really cool that people can learn about and start using today. Right? This is an investment. Hakeem Anwar (56:42.127) Charlie's got his over there. What have you been doing with your above phone? Have you been messing around with it? Charlie Robinson (56:48.494) Yeah, so for me, I'm not a tech gadget guy. I have to, it's like everything's brand new to me on it. Like the names of the programs are different and I've got Telegram on this, but I don't have Telegram on any of my other stuff. I've got two phones. I use it for different stuff, but I think that for those that are interested, it's not, this isn't a jitterbug. Hakeem Anwar (57:09.378) Yeah. Charlie Robinson (57:16.526) You know what I mean? It's not like an old timey phone for your grandpa. This is a Google phone that's de-Google. It's a very impressive piece of hardware. But the software that you guys have, it does everything. it's, people need to check it out. You know, it's one of those things where it's easy to kind of, to get the iPhone. I have one, you know, I've done that because the family. Hakeem Anwar (57:25.805) Yeah, it does everything a normal f***er can do. Charlie Robinson (57:42.907) And you just don't know if there's other options out there, but once you realize that you can do things differently, for those of you that are interested in privacy, technology, you like gadgets, things like that, or you just are interested in supporting the freedom community, this is a great option, obviously. You've been tied with us, you've been a sponsor here, and we appreciate your sponsor of Activist Post as well, we appreciate that. But I feel great. Hakeem Anwar (58:03.123) And it's easy to... Charlie Robinson (58:12.762) suggesting your products and you personally to people to talk to. Like I found it extremely helpful that part of the phone itself, part of the installation of the phone, the purchase of the phone is a phone call with an actual human being who walks you through and helps you do that. had, you hooked me up with Wizard, I Wizard help me do it. And if I hadn't had that, I'd have been paralyzed. because of my level of technological skills. So I say that to anybody who's listening, who's like, well, I'm not really tech and maybe it'd be a little complicated. That's what I thought. But luckily they walk you through it and make it so that you don't have to stress about stuff like that, which is helpful for people like me. I know Hakeem, you're like, why are you worried about tech? You know, it's just tech. I don't know. I just am, I just feel like I'm gonna break it. Like I'm gonna push a button and someone's gonna go, I've never seen that before and then they can't fix it. So I'm always concerned about that, but it's nice to know that you guys have really good human tech support that people can talk to and there's a face behind the company and you're not some asshole at Google trying to say, we know who you are, we know what you're about, it's a good place to be and I encourage people to go to Above Phone. I think our promo code is macro, try it, see what that... Hakeem Anwar (59:11.063) There's definitely a... Charlie Robinson (59:35.568) those for you, it's something. You got your Christmas gifts picked out. it ebbophone.com slash macro? Yeah. Yeah, this is one stop shop, man, for the tech gadget person in your life. Just get them laptops and phones all the way. What's the best place for people to find you? Yeah, go ahead. No, go ahead. Hakeem Anwar (59:36.545) That's right, go to abovephone.com slash macro. Hakeem Anwar (59:55.597) Well, thank you, Charlie, for saying. Hakeem Anwar (01:00:00.937) the go to is a one stop shop for any you know all the important information that's coming out so we really always appreciate that and we love that we can support and if you guys are interested in learning more about the phones go to abovephone.com slash macro I just want to echo what Charlie was saying like if this cannot be there are some people who are techie and for those to this a few hundred dollars already, you can cut your bill just by getting this laptop. You can use our Office Editor called Only Office and it uses the same Microsoft formats. So there's a lot of really cool things in here. Check it out. yeah, if you want to get more information, just check out the webinar as well. So thank you for having me on and let me talk about all this stuff. Charlie Robinson (01:01:56.219) Well, I'm glad you're on. And I'm glad that we have solutions to these tech problems because they can feel a bit overwhelming. And I don't want people to think that it's over. As long as we have some options left, some cards, we're going to play them. That's Hakeem Anwar, everybody. You can check him out over at Above Phone. Also, take back our tech. And if you want to connect with me, macroaggressions.io is the website to do that. Thanks, everybody. Talk to you again soon.