I'm Ed Cowan and this is scaling up.

Today on Scaling Up, we're reaching back into the archive to revisit a conversation I had in 2019 with Stephen Marks, the then Co founder and CEO of Guzman Gomez, better known as GYG.

This was the very first episode we recorded and in fact I most listened to.

It's an electric conversation where Steve shared his passions for food, brand, technology, and most of all people with a clarity and energy that defined him as a founder on a mission.

At the time of recording, Guzman had around 130 stores.

Steve was the founder CEO, still obsessing over every ingredient, every system, every hire.

They had a global ambition, but the US was still a dream.

The IPO was years away and COVID hadn't yet tested the foundation of hospitality everywhere.

We'll be sitting down again with Stephen soon for a follow up episode covering everything that's happened since then.

But before we do, thought I'd take you back to where it all began.

And even if you haven't heard this episode before or you're new to scaling up since then, this really is a must listen episode full of Nuggets that will not only act as a great primer for our next episode, but also leave you an awe of his energy and passion.

Hope you enjoy this re release of one of our most loved episodes, Steven Marks of Guzman Egomes.

Steven Marks welcome to scaling up.

I'm super excited about this chat to be able to a pin you down.

I know you're a busy man, but B to have you one-on-one is is somewhat exciting.

So thanks for coming.

Thanks for having me.

I appreciate it.

Thanks, Ed.

Now one of the missions of this podcast is is to inspire founders to have them think that they can do it and really drive that inspirational piece.

I've heard you talk about your childhood before and for me that was a really emotive story and and I'd love to hear it again.

Yeah, I, I guess, you know, when you look at anybody that's entrepreneurial, right?

It comes from passion, you know, and, and for me, I think one of the things that really drives me is besides winning, I talk about winning all the time.

It's like sometimes I look at things and it's black white.

It's either winning or failure.

So in my life, I've only seen incredible success and incredible failure and probably that's why I'm in therapy right now trying to figure out like the middle ground.

But like, I mean, but I've seen such on the spectrum, just really two distinct spots.

And, and my childhood was kind of, you know, part of the stuff that I sort of negative.

Like my, my dad was a pool hustler from Miami Beach and my mother grew up in the projects of Brooklyn and South Brooklyn and Coney Island.

And my mom and I, I think you, you, you draw on your family a lot, right, because it's in the early years of your life.

It's kind of, you know, what sort of instills values into you and drive and determination.

And I think when anybody's life, you know, I think the key that you never can change it, right?

So you make it positive.

So my mom grew up in the projects, wanted to have one kid, met my dad.

I think she was like his secretary.

He already was married, had two kids, you know, and was a pool hustle from Miami.

So that probably wasn't a good move.

And not that I blame her.

We care about it now.

But so they wanted to have one kid.

And I had my older brother who unfortunately passed away this year, but he was born with hydrocephalus, which is amount of water on your brain.

And these neurosurgeons from Harvard figured out how to install shunts and they alleviated and they thought he was going to die.

So my mom wanted to have one kid and she and I, she had identical twin boys.

So I have an identical twin brother named Evan, who I'm super close to.

And, and she had three boys and she used to always kid around and call my mom, my brother and I, her investments, she survived.

I never wanted to have you 2.

I only wanted to have one, you know, I think that's, that's like the Brooklyn humor.

And, and then, you know, my mother raised three boys and, and we had to work and we had a, she was an amazing mother.

She worked, she worked her ass off.

But I think from that time on, man, I had a dad, you know, I mean, eventually he was an alcoholic, became a drug addict, was homeless in New York City, was married five times, had had 7-8 children.

And I think at a young age, I grew up really quickly and, and I think, you know, I'm trying to now enjoy parts of my life now, but I had a sense of responsibility.

I really wanted to, even though it wasn't pinpointed on me that I had to take care of my family, but I just, I had that inherently build into me that I had to basically look after everybody.

And, and so from an early age, I think it was so important for us to work hard.

And we had our first jobs at 810 hustling, being an entrepreneurial from like shoveling driveways to selling T-shirts, you know, we did everything we could.

And, and I realized that I needed, I needed a strong education.

So we always did extremely well in school, which, which I think, you know, having an education early on is, is, is key no matter what you do with it.

And my brother and I were the first ones really go to college.

And her family went to University of Pennsylvania in Philly, which is an Ivy League school, played sport there, did well in school.

And, and, and as a kid grown up, I think what's super important for any founder is you're good at certain things.

Like I was really good at numbers, but I love people, you know, I think growing up with a brother was disabled and growing up with a dad that obviously had huge amount of issues, man, the guy was bipolar, you know, alcoholic, crack addict, you know, you, you develop perspective, right?

And I realized what really good was empathy.

Like I was, I was super competitive, but I had empathy.

And I think empathy usually turns into to ethics and values.

Well said.

Just to dig a bit deeper here, you've said that you know, growing up instilled that value of looking after people and, and to me, I get a sense that that has carried you right through into, into growing GYG into the Business Today.

Is that something that you feel you know certainly came from that time of your life?

Yeah, definitely.

I think, and it's still with me today.

When you, when you go through something like that and you see failure or you see, you know, people's lives just deteriorate.

And you see, like my older brother, man, had to wear helmets on, had 150 surgeries.

My twin brother had juvenile cataracts.

Like, I, I would look at myself and be so grateful, you know, even everything around me looked bad, but like, I was just so grateful that I could do whatever I wanted to do.

I was healthy, you know what I mean?

And I and I always had that in me, But I, but I think, you know, the whole part of for me is about winning is to making sure that what you think you can achieve.

But when I say I got to win, I got to win, you know, I mean, I always come last.

And I think sort of from growing up, like I knew I was strong, right?

And even when I, when I didn't feel strong, I just was so grateful for what I had that I put myself always last.

I wanted my family to win and I didn't care if I came last.

And I think, you know, I've built, you know, a couple businesses and obviously GY GS, my baby, I have to win with GYG because I have people that I'm accountable for and I have to take care of.

And I'll always come last, you know, and that's just, I think that's just a natural skill, maybe of a leader, you know, I mean, I don't really care how I feel or what's happening to me, as long as everybody that's part of the journey is, is, is thinks that's think it's memorable.

You know, I think that servant leadership is really key in lots of successful teams and it's been proven to be such a, a successful formula.

And I'm interested in your views on winning and losing.

What, what does winning look like?

How do you define winning for yourself, for your teammates, so to speak, and for the company?

Yeah, I think, you know, when I say winning, I, you know, I was talking to somebody today.

You always talk about winning.

You know, you got to fail to win.

I'm like, no shit, you got to fail to win.

Like the only way you can win is if you fail continuously.

But your failures are quick and you analyze and you keep moving.

So to me, winning could be realizing what your vision is, the way my mind works, I'm a year, 2 years out, we're about to over in the USI already know what that's going to look like.

You know, and, and, and as a leader, to me, winning is, is surrounding yourself with the most talented people.

Like I know what I'm not good at, and that's a lot of things, but I know what it looks like.

And then my job is to find the people that can execute that.

So to me, winning is, you know, for us in Australia, we have to be the number one Mexican player, Then we have to reinvent fast food, then we have to take over food and then we have to invade the US.

It like it never stops.

And I think the winning part of for me is that I always know that somebody chasing me at all times.

So how do you live with that healthy paranoia?

Maybe it's a New York thing that somebody's always going to catch you.

And as you build some, you can't freak your team out either.

But these guys have to know that we always need to be uncomfortable and you always need to evolve to win.

So winning never ends if you want to be #1 right, You know, from athletics, it never ends.

You can't just chill out and rest on your morals because then you lose.

And to me, like I said earlier, it's only winning and losing in my opinion.

I think that search for continual improvement is again, a really common trait that you see from successful people.

We're talking at the very top of their game, sportsman business leaders, that uncomfortable aspect of consistently looking for that next step is so key to driving them towards that success, that vision.

And I am interested in what you did touch on GYG in two years time threes, what does it look like in 10 years time?

What are entrepreneurs or founders really believe?

They believe they can do something better, right?

That's what drives us, you know.

So when I moved to Australia and I came from a hedge fund background, I mean, Mexican food here sucked.

And I went to every single restaurant and it sucked.

I was like, you know what?

I think I can do this better.

I think I can reintroduce a cuisine to a country and do it better.

I mean, I think there's a reason why a lot of these stores didn't do well because there's no Latins running around here, right?

So nobody knew what it was.

But what happens when we open up Guzmani Gomez?

We were doing so poorly that it pushed me right to innovate like, and there was no way this goes back to winning and losing for me.

I, I can't lose.

It's my money.

I have to take care of my family.

I have people along the journey.

So in, in my mind, it was, I'm only going out of business with people just truly do not like Mexican food.

So what happened along the way?

You have these two parallel thoughts, right?

All right, I got to keep getting people to eat this thing because I know the people that are eating it love it.

And what happened was because we were doing so poorly, we started to develop better and better systems, which led us to that building probably the the fastest and best fresh food operating platform in the world, you know.

So that's where like, you know, as as a founder, when you have this vision, people always say, when you started, did you think you'd have now 130 stores, which one day will be 1000 stores?

Yeah, I really did.

You know, And people look at me because why would I believe so passionately about something and want to have one of them or two of them or three of them?

So I think, you know, along the way, the vision was, I know where I want to be, but you still have to do all the work.

Like somebody said to me, when don't you wish you can close your eyes for a year and wake up and see where it is?

Like no fucking way.

Because as as an entrepreneur, you like the pain.

Like, I mean, it's, you're not addicted to pain, but you know that people usually stop when it's painful as an athlete, right?

Like it's hard, man.

It's hard to stay on top.

So if you don't enjoy pain or enjoy you know that constant pressure of having to prove yourself through bad times, then then this may not be for you.

Pressure creates diamonds, no doubt.

Exactly, and my twin brother always says pressure is a privilege.

Well said.

It's true.

You touched on one of GY GS key competitive advantages is this operational efficiency and you had no operating background in quick serve restaurants.

Well, how did that evolve?

I'm really curious as to how a hedge fund manager has an idea for a brand, executes on the brand.

But then really, if you dig beneath the surface, this brand is built around operational efficiencies.

Yes, yes.

So what happens?

I, I, I worked in restaurants when I was a kid and I worked in bars and everything, but I don't think that was, that was really what, where it was from.

I remember seeing Chipotle in the US and they had a linear set up.

So a linear means it's kind of like that subway style, you know, you wait in line and then eventually get to the front.

I want this, I want that, I want that, you know, so when I set up GYG and Chipotle was just taking off in, in the US when I set up GYG, first of all, I knew Australia didn't have a lot of people, right?

And I knew they only ate between

like 12:00 and 2:00 and 6:00 to 9:00.

So I had to build a system that was faster and I knew they didn't know anything about Mexican food.

So what Chipotle called fast casual, like if I said the Aussies, you want black beans, you know, they thought they were olives.

They didn't know what any of this stuff was So slow cat fast casual became slow casual.

But in my mind, right, because I, I think that no matter what business you're successful in or what sport you're successful in, you're obsessed in detail.

And, and, and that's why I, I am obsessed in detail.

Like before we open up GYG, like I said earlier, I went to every Mexican restaurant, you know, I, I think 24 hours about GYG and 24 hours about operation, you know, from the day that we open or year, even before we open till last night.

And, and my whole thing was, I know they're going to like the food because they have to, because I won't stop until they do, right?

And, and that's not common.

That's one thing I always say we never compromise on the quality, but I got to figure out to serve more and more people.

So when they do like it that I have revenue that'll support the business.

And that's what happened.

And I, we developed our own sticker systems.

You know, I remember we had guys writing stickers and I would say to my business partner who's the Co founder, Robert dude, I need to develop these sticker systems.

And I got to have burritos down one side and nachos and tacos on the other side.

And he would say to me, but they don't exist.

And I'd be like, great man, let's go build it.

And that's my thing all the time.

If something doesn't exist, then we should have a competitive advantage.

And that's what we did.

We built our own sticker systems.

We built their own kitchen delivery systems.

Instead of having a linear, I had a double linear behind, which in theory makes you go twice as fast.

So I was like instead of a linear where there's no engagement when you the crew and and the customer.

Also, I have these gorgeous Latin people and Australian people just fully engaging with our guests.

Everything's customizable and I can go twice as fast.

So when you're an entrepreneur and you want to make something better, I'm like, well, that's a huge tick to competitors, a huge tick.

And I can offer more things.

Not that you know you want to simplify your menus to to increase, you know, better throughput and better execution of your food, but like it was so clear to me what had to be done.

It's it's amazing when you talk of innovation, people are so quickly to point to software businesses or fast growing non consumer businesses.

But in a consumer business it's just as important.

I think that's a a huge point that you've just highlighted around the innovation simply in operational efficiencies has given you a massive boost in relation to your competitors.

I do want to.

Because if you think about it, you know, if you, my whole thing is if we're the same as everybody, I always say it's a GYG.

If you took GY G's logo off and put somebody else's logo on, we lose, right?

And, and this is kind of a competition, Like I don't give a fuck about competition, right?

Because we should be paving the way where they're copying us because there's, there's always like they always say there's a science and an art and a brand.

The science, any, anybody can analyze and sort of copy, but the arts, the culture and the soul, the brand, right?

Nobody.

I don't, I, I mean, of course there's people working as hard as me and GYG, you know, but they don't have our soul, you know, and I think that's what creates great brands, you know, from average brands and, and especially in Australia, man, if you have an average brand, you go out of business, right?

Nobody lives here, right?

You know, the cost of doing business is high, occupancy is high.

Now you go to the US, right?

I think there's lots of average brands, but you also have 400 million people that can support mediocrity.

That's why I'm, that's why I'm so in love with Australia.

Australia pushes you so hard to be successful here because it's so hard.

It's amazing so many Australians are so hard on Australia as a, as a place and yet people come, come here, whether for tech or start a business and they love it and they love the the country for, for that reason, because if you make it here, you can, you can literally make it.

Any yeah, I think Australia is one of the most difficult countries to build a successful business, but if you do then overseas I think is is a no brainer.

I think it's worth before we get into leadership, which is obviously a massive topic and something that dominates your life.

You did touch on the brand.

It's worth going into it here.

You've you've built a brand from scratch.

I am interested, was that an iterative process or did you really think deeply about what you wanted Gyg's brand to look like from the start and then execute that strategy?

How was that pieced together?

And and then, you know, top tips for for people that are looking to, to build a brand.

I I think everything goes back to, to, to motion and passion, right?

There's brands around here, Mad Max, Zombreros, Salsas to me, it means nothing, right?

Guzmani Gomez is named that friends of mine I grew up with right there the story begins, right?

It's it's, it's mine.

I mean it's GY.

You mean, let alone obviously we knew they're at the Aussies were going to shorten everything to GYG.

But like that means something like when I see that yellow circle and I see those faces, you know, of, of the faces of the fathers of friends of mine.

Nobody else can do that, right?

Because that's not their story, you know, and I think we see great founders.

I mean, the reason why the brands work, because it's their story.

Like GWG means so much to me.

Like, and I and I think the people that join for this journey, I mean, there's an intensity I roll with, right?

I like to think I have a big heart as well as like this thing is my life, you know?

And it starts from the brand.

Like I see that yellow circle.

Now we have, you know, 130 restaurants just in Australia and I see a drive through where you see McDonald's, which stands with McDonald's brothers have that MUCGYG in that yellow circle with Guzman and Gomez.

I see that yellow circle on my kids, while the guys that are in our restaurants wearing their, you know, their hoodies and everything, nobody else can take that brand that's ours.

And I and I think that that forms into your values and, and the ethics of who you are.

Like, you know, it's respect for this brand that we've all worked so hard to build.

So, yes, so the question, I could have named it Iguana Cafe or, you know, or something else, but it was part of something that I grew up with that I knew I had to execute.

And I had to make sure that that all the all the drive and the insight was going to do something that was going to be powerful for what that story meant to me.

And.

You obviously took a lot of time to paste that together.

Or was it always in your head the moment you knew Mexican in Australia you had?

A No, I wasn't sure I had all these people in my ear, right.

And it's funny for So it's Guzman.

The letter Y in Spanish is E Gomez.

You remember, Sure.

There is no Guzmans or Gomez nothing, let alone the letter Y.

So it was like Guzman white Gomez.

I'm like, it's not a question, dude, what the fuck?

You know, like you think about it, when I grew up, you know, you had, you know, Latins and everybody run in Australia, but you know, it's, it's white with some Asians sprinkled in.

So I had a lot of pushback.

And this is kind of where, you know, as, as, as a founder entrepreneur, one thing I, I can swear I trust my gut.

I, I have, you know, even throughout the years, I'm, I'm 47 now.

Like my intuition, my intuition has been spot on, I think since I was born, you know, and maybe all the experience I had when I was six and eight and seen in the street, Yeah, seen a lot of St.

seen a lot of bad stuff.

It's a lot of great stuff too.

So intuitively, like I, I see people building business.

What do you think?

What do you think?

I never asked anybody what they thought.

I knew it.

You know, as you grow bigger and we have smart people around them, you take opinions in, but intuitively of a founder, you know?

So for Guzmani Gomez, even though nobody could pronounce it, you know, people, you can't.

You can't start a bread and people can't say it.

I'm like, I don't think they say it or not as long as they come there and eat.

Brilliant.

I am interested in ladyship and I've seen a whole variety of ladies in in my former life as a sportsman and there are so many different styles that can work your style.

I'll probably describe and, and correct me if I'm wrong, is pure people.

You see yourself as a leader of people.

I've seen, you know, some of your staff and team members at restaurants High 5, you hug you, you know everyone's name almost in this sort of disciple fashion.

Is that, I mean, that's the an outsider looking in.

Is that how you see your job?

Yeah.

I mean, I don't know if I see my job that way, but I know I need, I need them, right?

And they need me.

I mean, I, I think when you're in a beautiful relationship, you need each other, right?

And you make each other better.

I mean, that's, you know, I mean, that's life.

And I look at, you know, right at this point in time, you know, we have 4000 people in the restaurants.

There is no GYG without them, you know, and, and it's funny, I remember, you know, with, you know, with our CEO and CFO, You know, when I said I remember they, I'm talking about Mark Hawthorne, who was, you know, ran McDonald's New Zealand and United Kingdom.

Now he's my CEO here.

I mean, McDonald's who I think also has a great culture.

But when I walk into the restaurant, they don't give a fuck if I'm the founder CEO, man.

We're one family and we're one team.

And that's a genuine way I look at it.

The kids that are, you know, working at the front counter rolling burritos, they are more important than anybody else I have in my head office.

You know, and it's funny as we build a business, all I care about is hot fresh food and and our people have to be trained to engage with people, but you have to find people that love to be there.

So for me, I run our cultural groups and I'll run any group I can to be next to these people because I know the more they feel me and they understand the love I have for this brand, the more I think it rubs off onto them and obviously which rubs off onto unto our guests.

But I think with GYGI think what's really important is, you know, when we were starting as well and people were like, So what are your values?

You know, I mean values.

I thought that was like some sort of bullshit thing you have in the back of a door.

But I realized that we really have values, you know, and my business part would say me do this.

This is what you talk about all day long.

Were they organic or so that they evolved?

From who we are as people, you know, I mean, I look at business very simple is that once again you have to be competitive.

Like, why would you build?

Some of you didn't think you're going to be best, Like what a waste of time, you know, and that's the way I look at it.

Like when we started GYG, I said, we will build the best wrestling company in the world.

How you know you're going to do it because we have to, right?

Because people are going to buy a part of this journey.

And it's our job to make sure that our vision becomes comes into fruition, you know, and that's what it is.

So my whole thing is that people always ask me, you know, as you grow, aren't you worried that your culture is going to get diluted?

I think it's such bullshit.

Like as you grow, you get better talent, right?

You get stronger, more people understand what your vision or so your culture should get even stronger.

And that's really the only way I look at it is as GOG grows, more people get to feel us realize that we're, you know, for me, you know, when you talk about people, I'm, I'm brutally honest person, brutally honest, you know, brutally transparent, transparent, which I think catches people off guard sometimes.

But I, I believe in honesty, clear communication, you know, pure transparency and everything.

And love, man.

And then you got to love you people.

Like I genuinely, if there's any problem with my kids in the store, I'm the first one there.

They got to go see the family.

I'm the first one there.

Like I, you know, as I said to you earlier, man, I love people.

I I genuinely love people and I love people when they connect with other people and and give that experience.

And how do you view tough love?

You know, when you talk of honesty and transparency and love, sometimes that means delivering a message that they might not want to hear.

Yeah, it's a good question.

I did it yesterday, right?

All of a sudden I'm sitting in one of my scruff groups and we're talking about fries.

And it's still, I mean, to serve a great French fry, which took us 18 months to perfect because our food's clean.

So I just want potato and with great oil and great seasoning.

And to serve a great fry, it has to be frozen the whole way through, you know, so sometimes we're selling more and more fries and sometimes a box of fries end up in the cool room was enough space in the freezer.

That's not acceptable, you know, so I'm trying to show these guys the urgency that if there's one box out of 1000 and somebody gets a GOG fry and it's not as crispy, you should we lose and that's not acceptable.

We know how good this thing should be.

So we need to execute 100% of the time.

So I had my OPS people in my marketing people in, you know, and I was so direct with them and so firm with them because we're all banking, you know what I mean?

And working so hard to make this dream come true.

And it's my job to make sure that we don't take it off the ball.

So I can be hard with you like people that I can be firm, I can be direct and I can be respectful and, and kind, you know what I mean?

But like there comes a point sometimes where I think as a founder man, I just step in and tell like it is.

And I like people to understand.

I know it's coming sometimes, right?

But I think they understand the culture of this business is that I carry that pain and nobody else carries, you know, and if I was gone and there's tons of amazing people at GYG, but I have a different level of pain than everybody else has.

Well said.

You're listening to Scaling Up with Ed Cowan, a podcast brought to you by TDM Growth Partners.

TDM Growth Partners is an Australian based investment firm that invests globally in fast growing private and public companies.

TDM Growth Partners investing in and helping build businesses we are proud of.

How do you motivate people?

You spend a lot of time in stores.

You know, I spend a lot of time in stores eating your products and I'm there a lot, but you seem to be.

There I panic.

I'm like, how was your meal?

Like every meal?

I'm like, how was your meal?

How was your meal?

How was your meal like?

I mean, it's, it's a fucking sickness.

So how do you motivate those team members on the floor?

I think you motivate them by what you say you deliver.

Like I think, you know, I mean the people that work for GYG look at GYG as a place that they're really proud to work at, you know, and I think that's the way we see food.

You know, I mean, our whole thing now is, as we talked earlier about, you know, developing this super fast fresh food operating platform.

What happened was and all of a sudden we have these amazing guys with us that built McDonald's were with GYG.

The light bulb went off and like, whoa, McDonald's is getting away with selling food that I think differently.

I'm a huge fan of how McDonald's was built.

So you know, but I'm just talking about food.

I think food companies should have a social responsibility of what they sell.

So all of a sudden GOG got so fast.

They opened up a drive through.

I'm like, and all of a sudden everything that all the lights went off.

I'm like, I got these amazing McDonald's guys who are amazing with process and actually culture and real estate and GY GS got this energy and and and food philosophy and and marketing and culture.

If I combine those two, that's what fast food should be, right?

My whole thing is, when did fast food become bad for you?

And I think the kids that are involved with us are like, wow, these guys have a social purpose.

Like I want to serve clean food to the masses and then eventually want everything composted.

I want nothing go to landfills.

But what they see is I have more people that are restaurant managers are now franchisees.

And that's the, that's the, the click of approval or, or confirmation that I need is that these people now are dedicating their lives.

They start to work at GYG.

They believed in what we're building.

I think they, they believe in the people that are leading this family.

And now they want to dedicate their lives to it.

And that's phenomenal.

It's interesting, it's almost as though you've, you've found some tailwinds in, in the generation of the staff, which is, you know, let's say 18 to 30.

They care about the environment, they care about clean eating.

And all of a sudden you had this vision and they're the people that get to execute for you.

So I'm sure it's it's not by mistake, but it does feel like there are some some tailwinds to make it easier for you to motivate these people.

Without a doubt.

I mean, you look at our university stores in Australia, the number one, right, they're killing it.

And now all of a sudden, you know, because I do spend a lot of time in the restaurants watching.

I got now I see kids in elementary school, you know, whatever, year 7 as they go on, all starting to come to GYG.

That's a huge tick.

Also that the millennials are loving it, you know, and my kids won't go to traditional fast food, you know, just because they're more conscious of food, you know?

But then again, that's where the pressure starts coming in.

Yeah.

And they know what, you know what I mean?

And they know what, you know, they know how they feel if they eat something.

And I mean, you can't fake that, man.

You may fake, you know, And for GYG, you know, we want to have value.

We want to make sure that everybody can eat and can afford it.

But I think the the key thing to that is that all of a sudden, you see all this, the younger demographic starting to come to GYG who never grew up with Mexican food, right?

These guys aren't from the States or from Mexico.

And that adds more fuel to fire for me now.

It's kind of like now we're on it now we definitely have to push it.

And that's where it comes from.

Is every piece of chicken cook, right?

I mean, are these kids where are hard shell tacos right now?

Like you can't miss the boat.

Also, I mean, you work so hard to have these power lines sort of grow and as they start to converge, you better be ready to hit it.

And I think that's where have an amazing team.

Besides, we talk about the kids in the restaurant.

My my senior management team, it's probably best in the country.

My board is without a doubt the best in the country, but the senior management team is just these guys are ready.

So when I walk in the room, they're not like, here comes this fucking lunatic.

They're like, they go, oh, we're ready now.

All right, this is where you go.

Let's be tight now as a team and let's go execute.

And that's the fun part when you have all those lanes kind of, you know, converge into into domination.

And having having managed that talent and how do you identify great talent?

And you know, what in your mind makes an exceptional staff member?

You know, we're talking about, as you say, young millennials who are on the floor, you're obviously there.

But what makes them great or can be great in your?

Eyes.

I think there's two.

Let's just talk about restaurant level, right?

It's amazing when you see a hospital, how many people don't like people.

That's a negative, right?

I mean, GYG, you gotta like people, you know, and you and you want to deliver an experience like I'll walk down the street, you know, they make fun.

I was walking down the street last year and some guy had a GYG bag and I knew it was a burrito bowl.

And the burrito bowl is built a certain way and the guy's swinging it.

I thought I was going to have a heart attack.

I'm like, Oh my God.

I just imagine like the rice and the guacamole and the meats.

So he walked by me and then he came back and walked by me and I stopped him.

And I wasn't even wearing GYG stuff.

And I don't look Mexican.

I'm my buddy.

Do you know what goes into that bowl?

Can you stop swinging?

And he goes, first of all, don't touch me.

And then he called up marketing that dude.

Some guy stopped me.

Like, I mean, there's so much that goes into GYG, but I love people and I want to make sure that experience is nailed.

So the key thing for me is that the people that work in the restaurants are GYG are amazing people.

They, they, they like being a part of a team because you, you can't build this thing by yourself.

I mean, G, would you be nothing unless I had these amazing people around, right?

I'm just the, the, the crazy guy with the vision that's sort of at the front of it.

And, and, and, and also like in our, in our, in our head office and, and the people, you know, in Sydney and our Queensland offices all over, they like the challenge of trying to build something that's world class And they understand there's a lot of pressure that comes with it, but they rise to that challenge.

And I think that's very important to me.

Like my CEO Mark been, he's joined with me for four years.

It wasn't easy in the beginning, you know what I mean?

I, I, I see things, I mean, I built this thing from scratch with Robert Hazen.

You know, all of a sudden you have somebody coming in.

This is how a $5 billion companies run.

You know, like, well, we're not really, that's not really who we are.

But one thing about him and I, which is I think is a good example, is that we have a ton of respect for each other.

We have two different histories.

They've both been very successful.

And we realize that it can't just be my way or his way because we both need each other.

And I think that goes down to the relationships.

Like once you realize that you both need each other, then you figure out a way to make it successful.

And we've had a very successful relationship, you know, especially now.

I think it's worth exploring this.

As you say, you've touched on a phenomenal executive time, a great board, maybe the best board in Australia for a business of your size.

You've got the two people that built McDonald's in Australia in Guy Russo, three of them, oh sorry, 3 and Steve German and then Mark Hawthorne, as you said, you know who's the ANZ CEO of the business.

But your relationship with them would have changed, you know, for you were a founder with fingers in pies everywhere, knowing what's going on in every part of the business.

All of a sudden, these professional executives come in.

How did you manage that transition as a founder?

It sucked.

It sucked for a long time, to be honest with you.

I, I actually, I had major problems with it because they were basing their decisions on their experience now, let alone why it's worked so well.

You know, I mean, besides that, we have a ton of respect for each other.

Is that this their, their journey was kind of similar with McDonald's, even though they had a rich brother in the, in the US, It was painful for a while.

My pain was, it was all my money and Robert's money, right?

But I think what happened is they're smart guys, right?

And they know food very well.

So they looked at me.

I remember Pete, what she's saying.

Like, I've never been more excited since they opened up my first McDonald's because they knew how dedicated we were to this thing and how much this thing meant to us.

And we had all the key priorities were, right?

It's all about hot, fresh food.

It's all about having an amazing culture.

It's all about making sure you take care of your suppliers, right?

And it's all about building a product that people love and there's value and accessibility for it.

So everything that these guys look for that was important to building McDonald's in their time was very similar to GYG.

So there wasn't besides the hiccups.

And these guys gave us a lot of room to breathe and to grow because they understood the journey.

So even though they were so corporate, they actually were very entrepreneurial in their own way because you know, Pete Ricci set up the first McDonald's outside the United States or now it's in 80 countries.

He was the first one.

Guy Russo started with Charlie Bell when they were 15C.

Bell became the first non American when McDonald's globally.

Guy was the CEO of Australia at 40.

So even though they came from this corporate back background, you know, Mark, probably more than these guys did, you know, they got it, they got us right.

And I think they knew that we were, we weren't lazy and we were passionate.

And, and, and as always as a founder, it's always good to make sure a founder has all his money into it, because then he has to make it.

Work, well said.

And how would you describe their impact on the business, you know, from a business that is growing so quickly, 30% + a year.

As I said, you've had to be across everything and all of a sudden these high-powered executives come in.

The importance of getting good people around you.

I think I, I think it's, it's, it's critically important, you know, but I also think as, you know, as a founder, it's also you need to let go, right?

And that's one thing when people look at me, if you look at me right now, if you swim around you like, there's no way this motherfucking can let go.

No way.

Like I'm intense, you know what I mean?

Like, and that's, that's who I am.

But I also know who's really good at what they do.

And once it kind of ticks that box in my head, I'm ready to give complete autonomy in any division, like if it's construction or it's finance.

I think what's happened now with GYG today with our board and senior management team mean on a finance side or a tech side mean they are phenomenal.

Take it, you know, and that's what these guys do because I still know what I'm good at.

You know, I'm great with food, I'm great with people and I'm great with culture, you know, and the energy of this brand.

So the less I have to think about everything else because I know at the end of the day, regardless of where you put your EBITDA or, or what this is at the end of the day, you have to build a brand that people want to come see.

They want to eat my food and I got to be and then we have to deliver an experience.

So that's what I'm more in charge of because I realized that that's the business as well.

And Rob, your Co founder I've heard you say is like a little brother to you.

You know your relationship and how this whole experiences bonded you together.

I'm sure there's been moments where you probably wanted to strangle each other as well, just.

She will probably want to strangle.

Yeah, I am interested in that Co founder relationship and and how it evolves.

I I think, yeah, well, he's not a little brother, man.

He's the same age as me.

We grew up together since and since we're four in New York, you know, GOG was my vision, you know, and, and, and I think when you build something together, you have to have your roles clearly defined.

And it's funny, as Uig grows right now, that's constantly I'm saying to people, let's be clear on our communication.

Let's be clear.

And with Mark Hawthorne, it's all about divide and conquer.

I mean, if you got a great team and you have great talent than anywhere you divide and you conquer because I don't care if I'm the founder and global CEO or he's the CEO of Roberts, the Co this and Bobby's this doesn't matter as long as you get there, right?

And I think that's that's a huge part.

And I'll go back into Robert is that there are no egos at GYG.

You know, even with TDMS are new partners that are coming in and Guy Russell and Bruce Buchanan, we are all here to win and to make GYG very special.

And that's why same relationship with Robert.

You know, Robert like you, you have a front facing guy, which sometimes he says I'm a little bit more needy than he is.

Then you have a back guy who's got to take care of everything.

Robert's taking care of so much shit that I don't want to do and that's integral to this business.

Like today, Robertson in the US right now we're we're about to open up Chicago and he's doing everything over there.

We're about to move A-Team over there, but he's doing construction and supply chain, even though we have some of our chefs over there and I know when he gets antsy with me right, So I literally had this conversation today.

First of all, I can't Hey, hey, how are you?

You know I love you, right?

He's like, yes, yes, I know you love me.

Now I don't want you to get upset with me because you know, as we sign things off, I'm going to change things here and there because all I care about is that when people walk in the GOG in Chicago, we deliver, you know, an experience that second to none.

I understand that he's like, but you understand also that I'm doing everything my power to make sure that happens.

So all of a sudden, when you, if a cop's not there when you show up, I don't you to kill me because I'm, I'm taking care of gutters and sewers and cups.

I'm like, I got you.

I said, I said I understand, you know, and we have, you know, there's a beautiful connection we have.

And I said, all right, hey, I got to go make sure all the cups are there.

That's it.

And your, your conviction on the US is massive.

You are a believer that GYG can go to the states, sell us to the Eskimos essentially and the opportunity is there and you guys are are ready for the taking.

Is there ever any doubt in your mind that you guys can be the brand that you want to be in the States?

Well, I think, I think it's a really good question.

You know, and, and I speak to Tom about this all the time, is that you need to have a competitive advantage.

You know, I, I think sometimes entrepreneurs start like this is great.

What is your competitive advantage?

I know clearly what my competitive advantage is and I play to that.

There's nobody in the US that can do what we do through a drive through at the speed and inconvenience and value that we have.

Nobody, There's nobody in the US that has breakfast, lunch, dinner, at the quality of food that we have, at the value that we serve with the energy that we have.

Nobody, you know, so people like, I can't believe you're taking this thing back home.

I'm like, do you know how hard it is to do business in Australia?

No, we have Dr.

Throughs.

So everything we do in Australia is obviously, I mean, we're an Australian business is to get ready for the US as well.

I have no doubt that this is going to be a success.

And as we always said, you know why?

Because it has to be, you know, my dream as I see, you know, McDonald's is almost like a $200 billion business.

Chipotle is a $20 billion business.

Why can't I get there?

You know, these are humans doing this stuff.

I mean, Elon, I went to school with Elon Musk.

He's a year older than me at Penn.

The guys transformed 3 industries, you know, space car, and he's building tunnels out in their life, right?

I'm just doing, I'm just selling, you know, burritos.

You know what I mean?

I mean, really good burritos and notches and fries.

But Tommy, look at you as a cricketer, right?

You know this.

We're all humans.

You can't like, and I look at my team, you can't tell me that we're not going to be better than Chipotle.

You can't tell me that we're not going to be the McDonald's.

Like, how can you tell me not?

And that's how I live.

I don't care about the money.

I care about winning and building something that's so impressive because for me as a founder, you know, and I have these two gorgeous daughters who are Australians.

Well, they're half all these half New Yorkers.

I said, when we built, they go, why are you so driven?

I said, I'm driven because I know we can do it.

And then we can change the world.

You know, we can change education.

We can change the people, the way people lead.

We can donate whatever we make and you know, and and you know, and change education in Mexico, you know, I mean, that's the rush.

Like if you have the ability to do it, you have to do it.

Sometimes drive people are driven by fear though, and drive can't mask fear.

I've been lucky to see some of the best sportsmen over generations.

They still, they still suffer from fear doesn't cripple them like it does other people.

But there must be a moment when there's that niggle of fear.

I want to know how you deal with it.

Well, I remember, I mean this fear when you start and you're basically, I mean that there's always that fine line between stupidity and genius, right?

And I remember I was at that fine line of a pure stupidity when I was losing all my money building Guzmani Gomez.

I remember we opened up our third restaurant and my mom came in from New York.

I was living in, This is Kings Cross in Sydney.

Yeah.

My mom was like, can I want to go check out one of the stores?

And, you know, at that point, we're working 100 hour weeks, you know, just trying to convince people that our food is good and it's fresh and building systems.

I mean, it was, it was so much work.

So she goes up to the store in King's Cross and she ordered.

At that point, we had something called ADF Steak and Onion Burrito.

And DF is DFA, which is like Mexico City, so the fat cats could eat steak.

So she orders this burrito.

We go back to my apartment.

At that point, I got 2 little kids.

My wife's post Natal.

All Hell's breaking loose.

They're losing all my money.

Like I was sitting in the backyard burning cash.

So she's eating this burrito.

It was awesome.

I was like, I'm so happy I left Wall Street and moved to Australia.

So she's eating this burrito and she's looking up with these these really sincere eyes.

And she opens up and she goes, there's no steak in here, right?

I'm like, what are you talking about?

You know what I mean?

I open up the burrito.

It's just onion and, you know, whatever, rice and beans.

And she looked at me and she sincerely said, you sure you know what you're doing?

Hey, for a moment I'm like what am I doing?

You know, but even now as we go, like the, the fear that I have now is that we don't execute the way we should execute.

I think I've got all the right ingredients like it's, it's never good enough.

But I know when GY GS done well, it's phenomenal.

When it's not done well, it's average.

So how do you make sure 100% of those experiences done well?

And that's that's the panic I live with.

And it scares that somebody walks in the GYG and they get a fry that buy accidents in the cool room, not in the freeze.

And they be like, you know what, this ain't this place ain't that good.

Or they eat a piece of chicken that wasn't cut well or the tortilla wasn't warmed well, or they don't toss the rice well, so the heat's not there.

I mean, I live with all these fears continuously and I don't think it'll ever stop until your pizza.

Yeah, your, your obsession for food is amazing.

Well, obsession for your product and owning that is incredible.

I guess just a couple of questions to to round this off has been such a fun hour of my life.

I do want to know like, how do you personally grow?

What what influences you?

Do you have mentors?

How do you your own mental models?

How do they get put together?

You know you're a busy person, but are you a reader?

Do you consume podcasts just for just a bit more of a generalist question to finish off?

It's, I mean, listen, I, I do like to read.

I don't read any motivational books, to be honest with you.

My, I have a twin brother who's into coaching and performance and he throws me books a week which I hardly ever read.

You know, I give back.

I tell him I read them, you know, but I but I look at a couple of them.

But I like a podcast here too.

But to be honest, man, I believe in therapy.

I actually go see a therapist every week, you know, and, and for me is, you know, I raised two daughters on my own.

I want to build, you know, a billion dollar business.

I want to stay healthy.

Like my whole thing is how can I stay healthy?

I want to stay mentally healthy because I never want to stop so I so I believe in therapy.

I see a guy once a week and it just keeps my mind not thinking on things that aren't important.

It's like a performance psychologist almost.

It's not therapy is but you know, lying on a couch talking about your childhood, I imagine it's.

No, no, no.

But part of it's that too.

Part of it's like, how do, how do I?

My problem is I can't sometimes.

I'm such a feelings guy and I'm such a communicator.

I can't sometimes articulate how exactly I feel in words.

So this guy helps me articulate things.

So it makes me become a better leader.

So if I'm able to communicate more clearly, that helps me execute what I need to get done.

I'm so I'm a huge believer in therapy and I'm also a huge believer in, in, in, in family.

You know, I mean, I, every I kid around, I call my kids rehab, you know, so every other week I get my daughters and it actually grounds me.

I pick them up from school.

I take them to school.

Even at GG is growing and growing.

I need that part of my life.

You know, I didn't have that as a kid.

My dad wasn't around.

So my kids don't give a shit who I am or what I'm doing, you know, and, and my relationship with them is so strong that it's just, it balances me so incredibly well.

So I think being a great dad is super important to me and making sure my head is nice and clear so I can, I can really envision where I want to be in my life and get it done.

Of course I love podcasts, I love reading interesting books, but like, I think staying mentally healthy is so key.

And lastly, if you could give your 20 year old self one piece of advice, what would it be?

Going one piece of advice, go into business with your best friend or someone that really cares about you.

I think people that try to do this thing on their own are crazy.

It's so hard, man.

I look at TDM, man, they got three buddies together and family here.

Like I believe in doing stuff with your family, with your friends, because if you have respect for one another, the team's already there, man.

You're already tight.

So that was him in a 20 year old and go for it, man.

Just just keep going.

Like it has to be hard.

Like I say to Robert sometimes, aren't you glad we went through all this pain?

He's like, no, I am.

Steven Marks, thanks for your time, man.

That was that was fantastic fun.

Thanks, Ed.

I appreciate.

It a disclaimer.

EDM Growth Partners is a shareholder of GYG.