Meeting created at: 24th Sep, 2025 - 12:47 PM1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:05,040 Case: It's just so bonkers to me that this is so different. 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:11,320 Case: But I understand that, like, if you didn't know that was, like, the way that the comic went, you'd be like, well, yeah, no, it makes sense. 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:15,959 Case: He's got, like, this awesome wife in the form of Lois Lane, and he's accomplished all the things he ever wants to accomplish. 4 00:00:15,959 --> 00:00:16,880 Case: He can retire. 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:18,320 Case: Yeah. 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:25,800 Jmike: It's just so weird that we're being kind to Lex Luthor. 7 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,520 DJ Nik: That's what I'm saying, is because you have to make him. 8 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:29,600 DJ Nik: You have to make him look good in this thing. 9 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:30,760 DJ Nik: You can't make him look too villainous. 10 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:38,460 DJ Nik: I mean, we talked about the superior Superman, his fate, and then after that, it's kind of forgotten that he actually did some shady. 11 00:00:38,700 --> 00:00:40,420 DJ Nik: You know, it's like, oh, he's a good dude. 12 00:00:40,420 --> 00:00:41,660 DJ Nik: He loves his wife. 13 00:00:41,740 --> 00:00:44,220 DJ Nik: He's helping the country and everything else. 14 00:00:45,020 --> 00:00:45,900 DJ Nik: It makes sense. 15 00:01:01,870 --> 00:01:02,190 Jmike: Foreign. 16 00:01:12,510 --> 00:01:15,550 Case: Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Men of Steel podcast. 17 00:01:15,550 --> 00:01:19,630 Case: I am Case Aiken, and as always, I am joined by my co host, Jmike Folson. 18 00:01:20,190 --> 00:01:20,990 Jmike: Hey, everybody. 19 00:01:20,990 --> 00:01:22,190 Jmike: Welcome back to the show. 20 00:01:22,830 --> 00:01:24,110 Case: Welcome back indeed. 21 00:01:24,110 --> 00:01:29,390 Case: Because we are tackling a story that goes back to one of our earliest episodes of the podcast. 22 00:01:29,550 --> 00:01:33,540 Case: We are talking about the animated adaptation of Superman, Red Sun. 23 00:01:34,010 --> 00:01:42,250 Case: And to have a conversation about a Superman movie, I could think of someone no better than the host of a superhero podcast, and that is DJ Nik. 24 00:01:42,730 --> 00:01:43,530 DJ Nik: Hey, guys. 25 00:01:43,530 --> 00:01:44,690 DJ Nik: It's wonderful to be back. 26 00:01:44,690 --> 00:01:48,650 DJ Nik: Great to be hanging out with you guys and talking about a movie that I had never seen before. 27 00:01:48,730 --> 00:01:50,010 DJ Nik: And I did not really sort of. 28 00:01:50,010 --> 00:01:51,130 DJ Nik: I only knew the premise of. 29 00:01:51,130 --> 00:01:53,250 DJ Nik: So definitely looking forward to breaking it down with y'. 30 00:01:53,250 --> 00:01:53,450 DJ Nik: All. 31 00:01:54,250 --> 00:01:57,370 Case: Yeah, the premise is a really strong. 32 00:01:57,530 --> 00:01:58,010 Case: It's a. 33 00:01:58,010 --> 00:02:05,230 Case: It's a really strong elevator pitch, you know, like, talking about, like, yeah, it's Superman, but he landed in Russia like that. 34 00:02:05,230 --> 00:02:05,630 Case: That's. 35 00:02:05,630 --> 00:02:07,070 Case: That's the log line for this. 36 00:02:07,150 --> 00:02:08,990 Case: And that's really cool. 37 00:02:09,150 --> 00:02:09,550 Case: So. 38 00:02:09,949 --> 00:02:10,750 Case: So, okay. 39 00:02:11,630 --> 00:02:21,550 Case: One thing that we got to get better about doing in general, because it's a feature that has been commented on that is really great, is J. Mike, could you please describe for the audience what is Superman? 40 00:02:21,550 --> 00:02:22,110 Case: Red Sun. 41 00:02:22,510 --> 00:02:23,550 Case: People like this. 42 00:02:25,630 --> 00:02:27,510 Jmike: People comment and ask about this. 43 00:02:27,510 --> 00:02:27,830 Case: Yes. 44 00:02:27,830 --> 00:02:30,590 Case: We've actually gotten feedback about how they appreciate you. 45 00:02:30,910 --> 00:02:36,030 Case: You trying to work your way through it, a synopsis of what we've been doing. 46 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:38,000 Jmike: Like, so I'm just gonna say this. 47 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:38,400 Jmike: It's kind of. 48 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:39,760 Jmike: You kind of already did it. 49 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:46,360 Jmike: It's like, what would happen if Superman's ship was four hours earlier late I think it was. 50 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:51,160 Jmike: They say in the book, is it four hours earlier, late, and it landed in Ukraine. 51 00:02:52,279 --> 00:02:53,160 Jmike: Like the farm. 52 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,200 Jmike: Yeah, the farm fields of Ukraine. 53 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:00,680 Jmike: And he was raised by Russian farmers. 54 00:03:02,390 --> 00:03:06,350 Jmike: And him growing up in that whole environment over there, like the. 55 00:03:06,350 --> 00:03:06,670 Jmike: The. 56 00:03:06,670 --> 00:03:12,390 Jmike: Well, the movie at least has him with his friend svelte Lana, which I thought was hilarious. 57 00:03:13,270 --> 00:03:24,510 Jmike: Him her being like his best friend growing up, and then him growing up in the Russian environment and learning how to deal with all that goes on over there. 58 00:03:24,510 --> 00:03:31,600 Jmike: Because I'm not really familiar with Russian stuff and him becoming the premier of Russia and having to deal with Brainiac. 59 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,520 Jmike: And I think the book called him Batman Cough. 60 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:36,000 Case: Yes. 61 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:46,200 Jmike: And the adventures with Wonder Woman and the fallout from Alex trying to antagonize him because of the fall kind of. 62 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:47,280 Jmike: Kind of collapse of. 63 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,880 Jmike: Of democracy over here in the States. 64 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:59,380 Jmike: Like in the book, it goes in a little bit more context about, like, how things are falling apart over here while he was promoting the new version of the War Star pact overseas. 65 00:04:00,820 --> 00:04:06,500 Jmike: So it's like a battle of minds versus Lex versus Superman about who is going to come out on top. 66 00:04:07,540 --> 00:04:10,740 Jmike: And at the end, like, Lex kind of wins. 67 00:04:12,020 --> 00:04:12,420 Jmike: Yeah. 68 00:04:12,420 --> 00:04:15,540 Case: That's kind of an interesting part about the Red sun series as a whole. 69 00:04:15,700 --> 00:04:19,779 Case: Like, Lex Luthor does kind of walk away the winner in this whole situation. 70 00:04:20,019 --> 00:04:23,310 Case: Like, Superman doesn't lose, per se, but, like, he. 71 00:04:24,350 --> 00:04:26,590 Jmike: Yeah, my Lex definitely comes out on top on this one. 72 00:04:26,590 --> 00:04:26,990 Case: Yeah. 73 00:04:27,390 --> 00:04:27,870 Jmike: Yeah. 74 00:04:29,150 --> 00:04:31,030 Jmike: Which is weird for a Superman book. 75 00:04:31,030 --> 00:04:32,310 Jmike: But, you know, hey, it's a. 76 00:04:32,310 --> 00:04:33,390 Jmike: It's a different topic. 77 00:04:33,630 --> 00:04:35,150 Jmike: Like you said, it's an elevator pitch. 78 00:04:35,390 --> 00:04:43,390 Jmike: Hey, guys, what would you think if, like, Superman landed in Russia and people look at you crazy, but that one guy be like, hey, it's a pretty cool idea. 79 00:04:44,030 --> 00:04:44,390 Case: Yeah. 80 00:04:44,390 --> 00:04:45,950 Case: Well, and that's kind of how this. 81 00:04:45,950 --> 00:04:47,910 Case: This started way back when. 82 00:04:47,910 --> 00:04:52,470 Case: So, like, if I remember correctly, this was a, like, imaginary story at one point. 83 00:04:52,470 --> 00:04:54,670 Case: Like, not an El, not the Elseworld, Superman, Red. 84 00:04:54,970 --> 00:05:04,410 Case: But, like, this was a, like, DC published like, one of their myriad, like, you know, one chapter or maybe the full issue of a Superman book back in the 50s and 60s, where, like, what. 85 00:05:04,410 --> 00:05:06,090 Case: Like, doing what ifs. 86 00:05:06,090 --> 00:05:13,370 Case: And in this scenario, what if Superman landed in Russia and Mark Millar, who is the writer on the comic that this is based on. 87 00:05:13,370 --> 00:05:13,850 Jmike: Yeah. 88 00:05:14,010 --> 00:05:16,810 Case: Took that idea and ran with it for a whole miniseries. 89 00:05:16,970 --> 00:05:17,610 Case: And this is. 90 00:05:17,610 --> 00:05:26,570 Case: This goes to show where you can, like, take an idea that's, like, really good and expand on it and do really cool things with it without necessarily having to be, like, 100% yours. 91 00:05:27,030 --> 00:05:29,510 Case: This is when we have to like, talk about Mark Millar for a minute. 92 00:05:29,670 --> 00:05:37,190 Case: Nick, are you that familiar with like, Mark Millar, the comic writer and creator of things like Kick Ass Wanted. 93 00:05:37,750 --> 00:05:39,830 Case: Are you familiar with some of the controversy about. 94 00:05:39,990 --> 00:05:42,550 Case: Around him in the comics world these days? 95 00:05:42,629 --> 00:05:43,390 DJ Nik: Yes, I am. 96 00:05:43,390 --> 00:05:49,670 DJ Nik: You know, and it's very sad because these days one has to kind of continue to separate the artists from the arts when it comes up. 97 00:05:49,670 --> 00:05:53,190 DJ Nik: Because I was a huge fan of Kick Ass when the comics came out. 98 00:05:53,450 --> 00:05:59,130 DJ Nik: And then, you know, you find the controversy surrounding, you know, the creator and it's kind of like, oh man, another person's kind of let me down. 99 00:05:59,210 --> 00:06:04,290 DJ Nik: It's kind of lately with Neil Gaiman, who I was a huge fan of, and that was another one which kind of broke my heart. 100 00:06:04,290 --> 00:06:12,410 DJ Nik: But yeah, I'm familiar with it and I'm familiar with the comics and of course I love the Kick Ass movies, even though I know Jim Carrey kind of distanced himself from the second one. 101 00:06:12,490 --> 00:06:17,610 DJ Nik: But I thoroughly enjoyed the movies and I thoroughly enjoyed the source material as well when it came to Mark's work. 102 00:06:18,810 --> 00:06:19,250 Case: Yeah. 103 00:06:19,250 --> 00:06:23,610 Case: So let's also clarify what we're talking about is not as bad as Neil Gaiman. 104 00:06:25,910 --> 00:06:26,110 Case: Yeah. 105 00:06:26,110 --> 00:06:26,790 Case: Like, which is. 106 00:06:27,030 --> 00:06:31,910 Case: It's crazy that Neil Gaiman is now our, like, our example of like, well, yeah, how bad can you go? 107 00:06:31,910 --> 00:06:40,790 Case: And like, in this whole sort of space, Marc Millar has thrown his lot in with a lot of the sort of like Manosphere comics gate crowd. 108 00:06:40,790 --> 00:06:42,150 Case: And that's sort of like the big area. 109 00:06:42,310 --> 00:06:45,470 Case: And it sort of has caused people to re. 110 00:06:45,470 --> 00:06:51,110 Case: Evaluate a lot of his work, which has always had kind of an edge, lordy kind of quality to it. 111 00:06:51,270 --> 00:06:57,650 Case: And you know, I'm not going to lie, when like the Ultimates came out, I was like the prime demograph for it. 112 00:06:57,810 --> 00:07:12,170 Case: But it's the type of situation where we're kind of looking at the artwork that has been created by this writer who has had very public falling out with creators that remain in pretty good graces. 113 00:07:12,170 --> 00:07:20,010 Case: Grant Morrison has said that if they were to run into Mark Millar in Ireland or Scotland. 114 00:07:20,010 --> 00:07:26,610 Case: Pardon me, in Scotland, he was hoping that it would be in a car, like implying that he would kill him. 115 00:07:26,610 --> 00:07:27,570 Case: Like, that's. 116 00:07:28,050 --> 00:07:31,250 Case: And, and Morrison is a pacifist. 117 00:07:33,650 --> 00:07:47,370 Case: So like, we're talking about like some fairly extreme distancing of people who so far have remained on the right side of things from Malar, which is kind of sucks because Malar has been a Part of some pretty big projects. 118 00:07:47,370 --> 00:07:51,290 Case: And I feel like Red sun is way less edge. 119 00:07:51,290 --> 00:07:59,100 Case: Lordy than it should be from the premise, you know, Like, I. I think that the comic of Red sun, like the. 120 00:07:59,100 --> 00:08:05,900 Case: The Red Sun Superman has popped up in things like Countdown, which was like the introduction of the DC Multiverse again after. 121 00:08:06,060 --> 00:08:14,300 Case: After Crisis on Internet for Dirt, wherein he was a much more pragmatist kind of Superman and kind of on the edge of being like an evil Superman. 122 00:08:14,620 --> 00:08:20,260 Case: And I don't think that Red Sun Superman in either the comic or the movie is ever evil Superman. 123 00:08:20,260 --> 00:08:35,330 Case: I. I think they do a really good job of having the character remain a really good guy, even though the circumstances push him into a space where he is doing like, on, like when you take the step back, bad things. 124 00:08:35,650 --> 00:08:38,970 Case: But he's really trying to be a good character throughout. 125 00:08:38,970 --> 00:08:43,970 Case: I think that is commendable because that is not necessarily how Millar would write a lot of his characters. 126 00:08:44,210 --> 00:08:47,340 Case: And so in that regard, that's pretty good. 127 00:08:47,420 --> 00:08:49,900 DJ Nik: I think he's more misguided than anything else. 128 00:08:50,940 --> 00:08:56,540 DJ Nik: Yeah, he doesn't want to do bad things, but the way he goes about it, I think is misguided. 129 00:08:57,260 --> 00:08:57,620 Case: Yeah. 130 00:08:57,620 --> 00:09:01,900 Case: And he's certainly susceptible to manipulation, which I think the movie plays up further. 131 00:09:02,059 --> 00:09:02,700 DJ Nik: Oh, yes. 132 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:11,740 Case: But I think it's an interesting take on Superman, who is definitively Superman, in fact, in terms of adaptation stuff. 133 00:09:11,820 --> 00:09:16,780 Case: So the animated movie, I think, does a lot of really good things with it all. 134 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,800 Case: So I want to note it's written by JMD Matthias, who we are going to be interviewing soon. 135 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:22,920 Jmike: Spoilers. 136 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:24,280 Case: Spoilers on that one. 137 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:26,280 Case: So. 138 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,040 Case: So, like, I, like, I want to be clear. 139 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:34,120 Case: Like, I think that there are things that the comic could do that the movie can't do. 140 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:41,400 Case: And some of those things are economical tellings of story by way of like thought balloon or not thought balloons, but like the. 141 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,240 Case: The first person narration that happens throughout the entire. 142 00:09:45,900 --> 00:09:46,540 Case: The entire book. 143 00:09:46,860 --> 00:09:55,180 Case: That, that allows for like, a more rapid kind of storytelling in some components or at least like to flesh out details that you would take serious time. 144 00:09:55,660 --> 00:09:58,060 Case: So there are shots in the. 145 00:09:58,300 --> 00:10:02,860 Case: In the comic that I like, regretful that they couldn't put in the movie. 146 00:10:02,860 --> 00:10:10,780 Case: But the only way to really put them in the movie would be to do some kind of like, Zack Snyder kind of slow, like, speed up, slowdown, kind of like spots. 147 00:10:10,780 --> 00:10:15,020 Case: And I'm thinking specifically about the spot where he catches the Daily Planet globe. 148 00:10:15,020 --> 00:10:16,940 Case: And it's like basically the COVID of Superman. 149 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,120 Case: Like, those are moments where I'm like, oh, I Kind of miss those in this. 150 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:23,560 Case: But I'm like. 151 00:10:23,560 --> 00:10:28,440 Case: And I'm gonna have this issue talking about the movie because I was so familiar with the comic book. 152 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:34,120 Case: Like I like, I broke it out just like double check the pace of some things. 153 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:44,440 Case: But in terms of the actual issues, I have a very good recollection of this story and how it beats out because it's really, it's a simple three act structure. 154 00:10:45,070 --> 00:10:47,150 Case: So it plays really well. 155 00:10:47,390 --> 00:10:49,630 Case: And that makes it actually play really well as a screenplay. 156 00:10:49,790 --> 00:10:54,110 Case: Yeah, so it plays really well in terms of my memory of things. 157 00:10:54,190 --> 00:11:01,390 Case: And so there is going to be a lot of times where I'm going to just compare it to the comic because I can't help but compare it to the comic because I'm so familiar with the comic. 158 00:11:02,030 --> 00:11:06,950 Case: Well, and Jamie, I mean you read it for this, did you, had you read that before we did the show? 159 00:11:06,950 --> 00:11:08,350 Jmike: Oh yeah, I've read it a couple of times. 160 00:11:09,710 --> 00:11:10,310 Jmike: A couple of times. 161 00:11:10,310 --> 00:11:11,790 Jmike: And I watched a movie a couple of times. 162 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:18,920 Jmike: Like I was trying to like decide which one I like better, but I'm kind of like they're both have their. 163 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:24,320 Jmike: It's not like public enemies where they specifically leave out certain beat points and throw it in the next movie. 164 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,280 Jmike: And it makes no sense this one. 165 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:32,760 Jmike: They kind of streamline the stories to a good degree, in my opinion. 166 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:38,040 Case: Yeah, like there's certainly spots that I find myself saying like, oh, but I like this part from the comic. 167 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,780 Case: But like I think that the movie is doing a really good job. 168 00:11:41,780 --> 00:11:43,660 Case: Yeah, it's really a really good job of like telling the story. 169 00:11:43,740 --> 00:11:46,540 Case: Like Nick, what's your experience with the comic versus the movie? 170 00:11:46,540 --> 00:11:55,100 DJ Nik: I would admit I am not familiar with the source material because I kind of wanted to go in completely blind and just go with this without sort of seeing the adaptations. 171 00:11:55,100 --> 00:12:01,260 DJ Nik: So that I was not maybe influenced of thinking, you know, they are, they change this, they change that and so on. 172 00:12:01,340 --> 00:12:03,500 DJ Nik: So this was my only point of reference. 173 00:12:03,740 --> 00:12:08,940 DJ Nik: But I, I, you know, and being the first time I actually sat down to watch this, as I mentioned before, I only knew the premise. 174 00:12:08,940 --> 00:12:18,480 DJ Nik: So I was really curious to see also, I guess being European and being familiar with the history of the Soviet Union and what have you, it was really interesting to see, not to mention seeing Superman literally kill Stalin. 175 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,520 DJ Nik: I was, I was blown away when that happened. 176 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:21,400 Case: Yeah. 177 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,520 DJ Nik: What I thought was curious about this one was that you like you were mentioning earlier case. 178 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:32,440 DJ Nik: I think by and large, even though I think Superman is very susceptible to manipulation and might be Misguided in the way he acts. 179 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:36,080 DJ Nik: By and large, I think it proves the fact that even if Superman had not. 180 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:42,300 DJ Nik: Was not born or had not been found in America, wherever he might have been raised, he ultimately can't escape his. 181 00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:43,540 DJ Nik: His ethics and his morals. 182 00:12:43,540 --> 00:12:45,820 DJ Nik: And that will always be intrinsic to the character. 183 00:12:45,820 --> 00:12:47,100 DJ Nik: And I really appreciated that. 184 00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:53,620 DJ Nik: I mean, there are some things which are clearly anti Russian in this film, likely because it was written by Americans. 185 00:12:53,620 --> 00:12:59,660 DJ Nik: And that does not surprise me in the slightest because we know of the relationship between now Russia, ex Soviet Union, the States. 186 00:12:59,660 --> 00:13:03,260 DJ Nik: So there are some glaring things that go clearly against. 187 00:13:03,260 --> 00:13:04,100 DJ Nik: Against Russia. 188 00:13:04,100 --> 00:13:05,300 DJ Nik: And the one thing that I was. 189 00:13:05,300 --> 00:13:07,940 DJ Nik: That I will say, the one that annoyed me a little bit. 190 00:13:08,510 --> 00:13:11,470 DJ Nik: Well, as much as I am a feminist, I kept. 191 00:13:11,470 --> 00:13:15,990 DJ Nik: It really annoyed me that Wonder Woman kept going on and on about it's men, it's men. 192 00:13:15,990 --> 00:13:16,870 DJ Nik: It's always their fault. 193 00:13:16,870 --> 00:13:17,790 DJ Nik: It's always their fault. 194 00:13:18,030 --> 00:13:20,430 DJ Nik: And so that kind of annoyed me to a certain exact. 195 00:13:20,430 --> 00:13:21,670 DJ Nik: It just seemed too repetitive. 196 00:13:21,670 --> 00:13:24,590 DJ Nik: Like, I get what you're doing enough now. 197 00:13:24,750 --> 00:13:27,230 DJ Nik: Stop hammering us over the head with this concept. 198 00:13:27,630 --> 00:13:29,550 DJ Nik: But other than that, I thought it was great and I. 199 00:13:29,550 --> 00:13:30,790 DJ Nik: And I appreciated what. 200 00:13:30,790 --> 00:13:31,230 DJ Nik: What was. 201 00:13:31,230 --> 00:13:33,390 DJ Nik: What was ultimately given to us on screen. 202 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:34,200 Case: Yeah. 203 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:35,960 Case: So like, regarding the. 204 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,720 Case: The Wonder Woman issue, it is less so in the comics. 205 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:39,080 Case: It. 206 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,600 Case: They're like falling out is less well defined in. 207 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:43,320 Case: In the comics. 208 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:50,920 Case: I think that the movie does a good job of ultimately having her be suspicious and have like her falling out with Superman is. 209 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:52,440 Case: Is done better in the movie. 210 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,600 Case: But I think that, yeah, there's a bit more of a drum that she's. 211 00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:00,400 Case: She's beating about being suspicious of the man's world and men in general. 212 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,920 DJ Nik: Because she's a lesbian in this version. 213 00:14:04,130 --> 00:14:04,250 Case: Right. 214 00:14:04,250 --> 00:14:05,490 Case: Which also is not in the comic. 215 00:14:05,490 --> 00:14:06,770 Jmike: Yeah, it's not in the comic at all. 216 00:14:07,810 --> 00:14:13,170 Jmike: I mean, it makes sense in the movie for where she's coming from, but like the comic is not there. 217 00:14:13,170 --> 00:14:14,570 Jmike: Her mom is also in the comic too. 218 00:14:14,570 --> 00:14:16,370 Jmike: Hippolyta is like around right. 219 00:14:16,530 --> 00:14:17,970 Jmike: In Russia in the comic. 220 00:14:18,370 --> 00:14:20,130 Case: Now regarding sort of like the. 221 00:14:21,010 --> 00:14:30,520 Case: The perspective of things, it's interesting noting that I think that the movie ends up being more anti Russian pro American than the comic was. 222 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:36,600 Case: And maybe that is because it's an American writer adapting it versus a Scottish writer writing the comic in the first place. 223 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,840 Case: So yeah, that. 224 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:41,000 Case: That is a thing that. 225 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:41,680 Case: That struck me. 226 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,160 Case: I mean, like, how do we want to do this? 227 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:44,360 Case: Do you want to like, go down like. 228 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:48,200 DJ Nik: Like I Do, however, want to point something out really quickly. 229 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:53,720 DJ Nik: It also seems that since this movie was more recent, current politics may have bled into this one. 230 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:55,400 DJ Nik: Like, for example, I don't. 231 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:03,550 DJ Nik: I know I might be overstepping here or might be getting ahead of myself, but is it just me or does Lex Luthor sound incredibly like Donald Trump? 232 00:15:03,950 --> 00:15:06,750 DJ Nik: And his accent, I don't. 233 00:15:06,750 --> 00:15:10,590 Case: Think that was because he sounds sort of like. 234 00:15:10,830 --> 00:15:16,190 Case: Because it's Diedrich Bader doing this sort of like fast talking, smartest guy in the room thing. 235 00:15:16,750 --> 00:15:20,190 Jmike: I couldn't place his voice and I couldn't decide who he sounded because it. 236 00:15:20,190 --> 00:15:23,190 DJ Nik: Was the nasally voice and the way he talked. 237 00:15:23,190 --> 00:15:29,070 DJ Nik: I was like, it could just be recency bias on my part having, you know, having, you know, heard, of course, Donald Trump all the time on the news. 238 00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:30,780 DJ Nik: It sounded very much like him. 239 00:15:30,780 --> 00:15:34,020 DJ Nik: And then of course, you get superior Superman going America first. 240 00:15:34,020 --> 00:15:36,660 DJ Nik: I'm like, oh, okay, right. 241 00:15:36,660 --> 00:15:40,100 Case: No, that one I do think is straight up that I don't. 242 00:15:40,100 --> 00:15:49,460 Case: I. I didn't take Bader's performance as Lex Luthor as being specifically Trumpian, mainly because the character is very different. 243 00:15:50,180 --> 00:15:52,340 Case: Aside from the fact that he becomes president at the end. 244 00:15:52,740 --> 00:16:05,450 Case: Like, the comic version of this character is dialed down a little bit in the movie, but it has this like, very particular way of Mark Millar writing smart people, which is very tell. 245 00:16:05,450 --> 00:16:08,090 Case: Don't show like all the dialogue. 246 00:16:08,090 --> 00:16:12,850 Case: Like, I'm so smart because I figured out all these like blank variables that like factor into this whole situation. 247 00:16:12,850 --> 00:16:14,569 Case: And we get a little bit of that in the movie. 248 00:16:14,569 --> 00:16:14,930 Case: Like we. 249 00:16:14,930 --> 00:16:16,610 Jmike: I figured this out 40 years ago. 250 00:16:17,650 --> 00:16:18,450 Case: Stuff like that. 251 00:16:19,330 --> 00:16:21,810 Case: Or like, specifically when he's like, oh, I can prove that he's real. 252 00:16:21,810 --> 00:16:28,910 Case: You just need to like, you know, give me $20 million and, you know, let me like, you know, shoot down the satellite. 253 00:16:29,150 --> 00:16:40,310 Case: Like, that sequence is kind of the sort of dialogue that he does, but it's way toned down from like the excessive kind of writing of the character that we get in, like, in the comic. 254 00:16:40,310 --> 00:16:54,420 Case: And it's if you've ever read the comic version of Wanted with Solomon Seltzer, I want to say the Lex Luthor analog that's in that he's got the same whole situation where it's just like, oh, yeah, no, I wore the exact cologne that, like, was what his, like, father wore. 255 00:16:54,500 --> 00:17:00,340 Case: And I was tapping my finger in a rhythm that like, evoked the nursery rhymes that his mom sang to him as a child. 256 00:17:00,420 --> 00:17:03,140 Case: And that is why he was like, so pliant when I was talking to him. 257 00:17:03,220 --> 00:17:06,619 Case: Like, those are like lines that Mark Millar writes. 258 00:17:06,619 --> 00:17:08,220 Case: And it's very, like I said, very tell. 259 00:17:08,220 --> 00:17:10,579 Case: Don't show about like how smart the character is. 260 00:17:10,980 --> 00:17:19,660 Case: And I just think that they're doing this sort of like posh version of Alex Luthor who is unchallenged by the things in his own world. 261 00:17:19,660 --> 00:17:37,159 Case: Like the whole point for the Lex Luthor character is that with Superman as an enemy of the United States, he is able to shine in a way that he rises in prominence without the villainy kind of component to it because he's able to be focused as sort of a super weapon by the US oh yeah, totally. 262 00:17:37,159 --> 00:17:37,959 DJ Nik: I totally agree. 263 00:17:37,959 --> 00:17:38,439 DJ Nik: Yeah. 264 00:17:38,519 --> 00:17:42,599 Case: But yeah, like the America first stuff from Superior man is super. 265 00:17:42,919 --> 00:17:43,599 Case: And that's. 266 00:17:43,599 --> 00:17:45,319 Case: That is added for the movie. 267 00:17:45,799 --> 00:17:49,150 Case: Yeah, in the comic, the character is the Bizarro. 268 00:17:49,150 --> 00:17:49,830 Case: And I kind of. 269 00:17:49,830 --> 00:17:53,830 Case: Yeah, he's just straight up like, he, at the very end, he's dying. 270 00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:55,990 Case: He like uses like the me kind of speak. 271 00:17:55,990 --> 00:18:02,070 Case: But in the, in the comic, like the whole time he's saying like, goodbye me. 272 00:18:02,070 --> 00:18:03,270 Case: So sad to see you. 273 00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:06,470 Case: Like kind of, you know, reverse like bizarro speech. 274 00:18:06,950 --> 00:18:07,430 Case: Yeah. 275 00:18:07,510 --> 00:18:11,710 DJ Nik: Here they made it more of like almost a fascist character with the way he was brought. 276 00:18:11,710 --> 00:18:14,160 DJ Nik: He was kind of spouting out the populist. 277 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,080 DJ Nik: The populist jargon, of course, you know, of course. 278 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,200 DJ Nik: Which was always kind of Superman's thing way back when. 279 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:19,880 DJ Nik: But that's. 280 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,680 DJ Nik: I was like, I'm sure this might. 281 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:26,560 DJ Nik: Was likely influenced by recent political events, seeing that the. 282 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:26,920 DJ Nik: The. 283 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,680 DJ Nik: The movie is more recent than obviously the source material. 284 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,360 Case: Yeah, I would 100% agree that is. 285 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:40,000 Case: That those are more recent kind of political things like seeping into the world of the character. 286 00:18:40,580 --> 00:18:40,740 Case: Yeah. 287 00:18:40,740 --> 00:18:41,260 Case: Why don't we. 288 00:18:41,260 --> 00:18:43,580 Case: So why don't we just talk about the three major arcs for this? 289 00:18:43,580 --> 00:18:43,860 Case: So. 290 00:18:43,860 --> 00:18:44,860 Case: Because the. 291 00:18:44,860 --> 00:18:50,020 Case: So the comic was broken down into red sun rising, red sun ascendant, and red sun setting, I believe was the. 292 00:18:50,020 --> 00:18:54,700 Case: The three arcs, which basically corresponds to the three ages of the characters in this hall. 293 00:18:54,700 --> 00:19:01,060 Case: So when we've got young Superman and he's basically in the Superman outfit, it just has the colors changed or like the pattern changed. 294 00:19:01,140 --> 00:19:03,780 Case: And we've got Lex Luthor with a full head of hair. 295 00:19:03,780 --> 00:19:09,060 Case: And then there's the second section where Lex Luthor is starting to bald and Superman has adopted gloves. 296 00:19:09,300 --> 00:19:14,560 Case: And then we have his like full on fashy uniform end and, like, the fully bald Lex Luthor. 297 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,920 Case: And those are, like, the three, like, phases that we kind of jump into. 298 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:23,120 Case: So it's like the 50s into, like, the 70s into, like, the 90s or whatever. 299 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:24,320 Case: The timeline of the. 300 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:24,800 Case: Of the. 301 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,200 Case: Of the comic and of the movie. 302 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:28,639 Case: So the. 303 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,120 Case: This opening with Svetlana is. 304 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:32,800 Case: Is an original thing. 305 00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:34,000 Jmike: Yep. 306 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:35,960 Case: That is not in the comic. 307 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:36,720 Case: And it's. 308 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,950 Case: I found it interesting because it's not like. 309 00:19:40,950 --> 00:19:45,430 Case: It doesn't have to be like, the Soviet Superman thing, like, aside from. 310 00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:50,950 Case: And it sort of, you know, like, most of the scene sort of just plays out as, like, any bullies, like, picking on Clark. 311 00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:51,910 Case: But the. 312 00:19:51,910 --> 00:19:57,030 Case: It's the ending point where she says you have to give these powers to the state. 313 00:19:57,270 --> 00:20:00,710 Case: And that kicks off the, like, the movie as a whole. 314 00:20:00,870 --> 00:20:07,670 Case: And that sets up this, like, theme of the character being very susceptible to, like, to being influenced by people. 315 00:20:07,670 --> 00:20:09,430 Case: And that becomes a theme later on. 316 00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:11,160 Case: But, like, this. 317 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:18,440 Case: This version of the movie, one of the running themes of it is that Superman is susceptible to a lot of people's manipulations. 318 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,360 Case: And that happens throughout this movie. 319 00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:22,200 Case: Like, it's. 320 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:27,080 Case: It is not just like, when we get to the end with Brainiac, even with Stalin himself. 321 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:27,560 DJ Nik: Yep. 322 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,040 Case: So then we get to the opening credits, and I think the opening credits look amazing. 323 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,640 Case: They're using the same art style. 324 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,000 Case: They're basing a lot of it on the actual covers from the Red Sudden comics. 325 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:44,390 Case: It's just like this gorgeous, like, Soviet era, like, iconography, like, propagandist, like, kind of material that they're. 326 00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:45,270 Case: They're cranking out. 327 00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:46,790 Case: And it looks really cool, like the. 328 00:20:46,790 --> 00:20:52,150 DJ Nik: Opening Gregorian chant that you get, which is very much sort of associated with Soviet. 329 00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:54,790 DJ Nik: Yeah, you get that there. 330 00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:58,910 DJ Nik: And I recall, you know, there were also moments of that even in, you know, to go into the Marvel world. 331 00:20:58,910 --> 00:21:00,950 DJ Nik: When they did Black Widow, they did the same kind of thing. 332 00:21:00,950 --> 00:21:03,350 DJ Nik: Because that is very much associated with Soviet. 333 00:21:03,350 --> 00:21:04,190 DJ Nik: The Soviet Union. 334 00:21:04,190 --> 00:21:04,430 Case: Right. 335 00:21:04,430 --> 00:21:06,310 DJ Nik: Of these almost Gregorian chants. 336 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:07,680 Case: What is that? 337 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,480 Case: Is that because of the Russian Orthodox Church? 338 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,360 DJ Nik: Yep, you nailed it. 339 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:12,280 DJ Nik: It's because it was. 340 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:12,840 DJ Nik: Yeah. 341 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,080 DJ Nik: And then they still use that kind of that style when it comes to prayers and what have you. 342 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:17,760 DJ Nik: So, yeah, that's. 343 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,720 DJ Nik: That's heavily embedded in Soviet Union culture and also Russian. 344 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:22,760 DJ Nik: Today's Russian culture. 345 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,160 Case: But, yeah, then we get this. 346 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:32,230 Case: This, like, newsreel footage, and that is very similar to the way that the comic opens, where the world is made aware of Superman by way of, like, footage that has leaked about the. 347 00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:34,140 Case: About the appearance of a. 348 00:21:34,380 --> 00:21:35,500 Case: Of a Superman. 349 00:21:35,740 --> 00:21:39,020 Case: And some of the question comes from the American side of, like, is this real? 350 00:21:39,420 --> 00:21:47,660 Case: Now, this is when we get to Lois and Lex, and I just need to note that they are such a better couple in the movie than they are in the comic. 351 00:21:47,820 --> 00:21:52,780 Case: In the comic, like, in the comic, they are the most awkward estranged couple. 352 00:21:52,940 --> 00:21:55,540 Case: Like, they are together for the first issue. 353 00:21:55,540 --> 00:21:58,460 Case: And at the end of the first issue, Lex is like, we're having. 354 00:21:58,460 --> 00:22:01,420 Case: I have to put our relationship on pause because I have to kill Superman. 355 00:22:01,580 --> 00:22:03,380 Case: And he's, like, clearly going crazy. 356 00:22:03,380 --> 00:22:09,520 Case: And she's like, wait, marriage is over because of, like, Because Superman beat your monster that you created? 357 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:10,520 Case: I don't care about the fight. 358 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,280 Case: I care about him beating me in chess. 359 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,760 Case: Yeah, sorry, I just went way too deep on that scene. 360 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:26,400 DJ Nik: But can we also point out the fact that, I mean, Lois, when they're in bed, Lois is telling him, you're getting a little bit round around, you know, your chest. 361 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,360 DJ Nik: I'm like, the dude is jacked. 362 00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:29,480 DJ Nik: What are you talking about? 363 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:29,870 Case: Yeah. 364 00:22:32,980 --> 00:22:33,940 Case: No, I mean, like, they. 365 00:22:33,940 --> 00:22:37,860 Case: This seems like a really, like, vivacious couple. 366 00:22:37,860 --> 00:22:39,380 Case: Like, they have the whole point when. 367 00:22:39,380 --> 00:22:46,300 Case: When Jimmy Olsen, or rather, pardon me, Agent Olsen, says, like, basically, like, why do you. 368 00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:47,140 Case: Why are you with him? 369 00:22:47,140 --> 00:22:49,540 Case: And she gives rattles off, and she's like. 370 00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:51,100 Case: And she's like, number two, he's. 371 00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:52,020 Case: The sex is great. 372 00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:53,140 Case: And it's like, what? 373 00:22:53,380 --> 00:22:53,820 Case: Wow. 374 00:22:53,820 --> 00:22:54,140 Case: That. 375 00:22:54,140 --> 00:22:55,180 Jmike: We didn't ask for that, ma'. 376 00:22:55,180 --> 00:22:55,380 Case: Am. 377 00:22:57,460 --> 00:22:58,020 Case: Yeah. 378 00:22:58,500 --> 00:23:00,580 Case: Like, do you know how good the sex has to be? 379 00:23:00,580 --> 00:23:00,820 Case: That. 380 00:23:00,820 --> 00:23:02,320 Case: That's number list. 381 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:03,920 DJ Nik: Exactly. 382 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:11,120 Case: Like, I think the whole time, we've got a Los Lane that is way more committed to this Lex than the one in the. 383 00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:11,840 Case: In the comic. 384 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:12,240 Case: In. 385 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:13,240 Case: In the comic, there. 386 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:20,720 Case: There's always a sort of, like, vibe that, like, man, if only Superman was American, like, they would have found each other. 387 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,600 Jmike: Well, yeah, because he says it in his little speech bubbles in the. 388 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:25,080 Case: Yeah, yeah. 389 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:31,050 Jmike: Like, he was like, yeah, you know, maybe, you know, I hadn't seen the wedding ring, and I didn't know who she was and she was married. 390 00:23:31,050 --> 00:23:32,410 Jmike: Maybe it could have happened. 391 00:23:32,730 --> 00:23:36,530 Jmike: He's like, maybe in, like, a thousand years, whatever. 392 00:23:36,530 --> 00:23:40,810 Jmike: Somebody's going to write something about another universe where it actually happened, but not today. 393 00:23:42,010 --> 00:23:44,050 DJ Nik: Yeah, she's very much a devoted wife to him. 394 00:23:44,050 --> 00:23:47,370 DJ Nik: I think we see this throughout the whole course of the movie, even by the time he becomes president. 395 00:23:47,610 --> 00:23:48,010 Case: Yeah. 396 00:23:48,010 --> 00:23:56,890 Case: The only real arc that she has in relation to her relationship with Lex is that she goes from insisting on going as Lois Lane, even though this is, like, the 50s. 397 00:23:56,890 --> 00:24:00,950 Case: So that's like, supposed to be like a really progressive detail for the character that by the time he's. 398 00:24:00,950 --> 00:24:03,030 Case: He's president, she's going by Lois Luthor. 399 00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:11,030 Case: And that, I think, is her sort of like throwing herself in with Lex and being a part of his plans. 400 00:24:11,030 --> 00:24:18,070 Case: And like, part of that is being the face of the, you know, being the first lady, like that has like a political role to it. 401 00:24:18,070 --> 00:24:20,710 Case: And like, so she has to sort of like give up the. 402 00:24:21,110 --> 00:24:30,710 Case: Her extremely successful journalism career where she became the editor in chief of the Daily Planet, but like, and become First Lady. 403 00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:34,150 Case: It's so like, there's that. 404 00:24:34,150 --> 00:24:38,550 Case: I mean, she just seems much more like part of the same team with Lex the whole time. 405 00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:40,070 Case: So we get the damn scene. 406 00:24:40,070 --> 00:24:49,030 Case: And I think that's a pretty good establishing scene for Superman being this like, idealistic, like unbesmirched by politics kind of phase for the character. 407 00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:53,270 Case: Oh, then we get the satellite collapse or like crash landing on Metropolis. 408 00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:58,090 Case: And like I said, I kind of miss the hyper on the nose imagery that the comic book had. 409 00:24:58,170 --> 00:25:00,770 Case: But I think it works just fine in terms of him saving them. 410 00:25:00,770 --> 00:25:02,570 Case: And he gives like a little speech to everyone. 411 00:25:02,650 --> 00:25:03,330 Case: And that's. 412 00:25:03,330 --> 00:25:04,090 Case: That's all good. 413 00:25:04,490 --> 00:25:15,450 Case: But this gets to an interesting detail, which is that after the satellite scene, we actually get an interview between Lois and Superman or at least a confrontation between them. 414 00:25:15,930 --> 00:25:22,330 Case: And this sort of continues this whole theme of Superman just being extremely easy to manipulate. 415 00:25:23,690 --> 00:25:28,810 Case: Because for one thing, Lois Lane suggests that Eisenhower is right in this whole situation. 416 00:25:28,890 --> 00:25:30,410 Case: That like, the. 417 00:25:30,410 --> 00:25:34,170 Case: The satellite was just the Russian government creating a propaganda situation. 418 00:25:34,170 --> 00:25:36,210 Case: Lois Lane knows for a fact that it's not. 419 00:25:36,210 --> 00:25:40,810 Case: She was in the room when Lex requisitioned shooting down the satellite. 420 00:25:40,890 --> 00:25:41,290 Case: So. 421 00:25:41,530 --> 00:25:45,010 Case: So there is no part of her that's buying into that like this. 422 00:25:45,010 --> 00:25:46,530 Case: Like, oh, it's just Russian propaganda. 423 00:25:46,530 --> 00:25:48,810 Case: She actually knows it's American propaganda. 424 00:25:49,370 --> 00:25:52,410 Case: So she knows just how biased the situation is. 425 00:25:52,410 --> 00:25:55,690 Case: And she gives paperwork over that was given to her by Lex Luthor. 426 00:25:55,690 --> 00:25:59,210 Case: And so this starts off the whole sequence of Lex Luthor is manipulated. 427 00:25:59,210 --> 00:26:01,050 Case: Like Lex Luthor is playing chess. 428 00:26:01,130 --> 00:26:03,530 Case: But I don't think Superman is really playing against him. 429 00:26:03,530 --> 00:26:05,770 Case: I think Superman is a chess piece. 430 00:26:05,930 --> 00:26:12,250 Case: And ultimately I think that we get to the point where it's Brainiac playing chess against Luthor. 431 00:26:12,890 --> 00:26:17,060 Case: It's like you've got a rogue queen on the board in the form of Superman. 432 00:26:17,380 --> 00:26:20,820 Case: It to really kind of like take the chess metaphor like, further. 433 00:26:21,140 --> 00:26:26,820 Case: And so like, Luthor has to contend with this factor. 434 00:26:26,900 --> 00:26:34,300 Case: But it's only Part of his, like, bigger play, which is a little bit of a bummer because I do feel that, like, the. 435 00:26:34,300 --> 00:26:40,260 Case: The comics version is slightly more active up until he starts becoming manipulated by Brainiac. 436 00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:41,940 Case: But at the same time, it. 437 00:26:41,940 --> 00:26:45,700 Case: It does allow for him to remain kind of the good guy in the situation. 438 00:26:46,780 --> 00:26:49,980 Jmike: I. I will say that I prefer. 439 00:26:50,300 --> 00:26:55,580 Jmike: In this instance, I prefer the movie better here because this gives Lana. 440 00:26:55,580 --> 00:26:59,180 Jmike: Lana way more to do than what she actually has in the book. 441 00:26:59,180 --> 00:26:59,900 Case: Yes, yes. 442 00:27:01,100 --> 00:27:08,700 Case: So, yeah, so then we get this gulag scene and, like, yeah, that is a very dramatic inclusion in the movie that's not in the comic. 443 00:27:09,180 --> 00:27:10,580 Case: There's no equivalent scene. 444 00:27:10,580 --> 00:27:15,370 Case: Or the closest equivalent is when Superman finds Svetlana in, like, the food line. 445 00:27:15,530 --> 00:27:16,290 Case: Yeah, but. 446 00:27:16,290 --> 00:27:17,850 Case: But so he. 447 00:27:17,850 --> 00:27:19,290 Case: He goes to this gulag. 448 00:27:19,450 --> 00:27:21,050 Case: He is forced to, like, face. 449 00:27:21,370 --> 00:27:24,170 Case: And this is one of the spots where it's just like, look how. 450 00:27:24,170 --> 00:27:26,090 Case: Look how awful the Soviet state was. 451 00:27:26,570 --> 00:27:28,690 Case: Or that the movie is trying to be that the. 452 00:27:28,690 --> 00:27:40,020 Case: The comic doesn't really get into, because the comic sort of interprets it as being just two sides of similar coins between the Russian and the. 453 00:27:40,180 --> 00:27:51,140 Case: The United States or the USSR in the United States, where it's just whoever was the one who was economically prospering was the one that was doing better and the other side was doing bad. 454 00:27:52,020 --> 00:27:52,620 Case: This is. 455 00:27:52,620 --> 00:27:55,460 Case: Is really forcing us to contend with some of the. 456 00:27:55,700 --> 00:27:56,820 Case: The true atrocities. 457 00:27:56,820 --> 00:27:57,740 Case: And these are true things. 458 00:27:57,740 --> 00:28:07,970 Case: I'm not trying to, like, downplay, like, the complicity of Stalin like, that. 459 00:28:07,970 --> 00:28:08,250 Case: That. 460 00:28:08,250 --> 00:28:08,850 Case: That this. 461 00:28:08,850 --> 00:28:10,170 Case: This is not inaccurate. 462 00:28:10,170 --> 00:28:11,290 Case: I'm just noting that it is. 463 00:28:11,290 --> 00:28:15,050 Case: It's interesting that we're, like, kind of being like. 464 00:28:17,450 --> 00:28:18,330 Case: Yeah, it's. 465 00:28:18,570 --> 00:28:19,210 Case: There's just. 466 00:28:19,290 --> 00:28:19,850 Case: It's. 467 00:28:19,930 --> 00:28:20,450 Case: Yeah. 468 00:28:20,450 --> 00:28:22,769 Case: Anyway, no, I mean, what I thought. 469 00:28:22,769 --> 00:28:34,930 DJ Nik: Was interesting, though, about that moment was one, Lois was necessarily not expecting Superman to show up when she gave him, you know, those classified files which were showing all the atrocities that were going on in the Soviet Union. 470 00:28:34,930 --> 00:28:37,290 DJ Nik: She just happened to have them on her. 471 00:28:37,370 --> 00:28:37,770 Case: Right. 472 00:28:37,770 --> 00:28:38,880 DJ Nik: Okay, fine. 473 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,200 DJ Nik: I guess this works because she was just out having a smoke. 474 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,200 DJ Nik: She wasn't expecting Superman to show up. 475 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,160 DJ Nik: It's like, oh, I just happen to have this. 476 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,000 DJ Nik: Take this and have a look and see how wonderful your Soviet Union is. 477 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:51,720 DJ Nik: And that you were mentioning case. 478 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:56,680 DJ Nik: Throughout the course of this movie, we see how many times Superman is manipulated. 479 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:02,480 DJ Nik: But also he has these very high ideals which are ultimately taken down by somebody because he's, like. 480 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,280 DJ Nik: Invests so much into a certain set of beliefs. 481 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,800 DJ Nik: But then somebody comes around going, oh, sorry, that's not exactly the case. 482 00:29:09,330 --> 00:29:15,370 DJ Nik: And I Think, you know, we get that great line, I think, from Stalin who says, you know, you're a blind kitten, because that is literally what he is. 483 00:29:15,370 --> 00:29:18,610 DJ Nik: Because he's fed any kind of knowledge and he will take it as writ. 484 00:29:18,850 --> 00:29:19,370 DJ Nik: And I. 485 00:29:19,370 --> 00:29:27,010 DJ Nik: And I appreciated in that moment where Lois is like, you know, you think the Soviet Union is so great and they're doing such a great job giving people freedom, power to the people and all. 486 00:29:27,010 --> 00:29:28,850 DJ Nik: And then suddenly he is. 487 00:29:28,850 --> 00:29:33,490 DJ Nik: He had no idea that there was this whole situation going on when it came to the. 488 00:29:33,650 --> 00:29:34,650 DJ Nik: The gulags. 489 00:29:34,650 --> 00:29:40,550 DJ Nik: And then of course, we get that great confrontation between started and Superman, which I did not see coming. 490 00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:42,630 Case: Yeah, neither did I, frankly. 491 00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:42,950 Case: When. 492 00:29:43,030 --> 00:29:44,550 Case: Because it's not in the comic. 493 00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:54,910 Case: And so before we move on to the confrontation between Solomon and Superman, because we're going to talk about this one, there is the setup of Batman also, or Batman cough. 494 00:29:54,910 --> 00:29:55,870 Case: Yeah, yeah. 495 00:29:55,870 --> 00:29:57,430 DJ Nik: He's dead parents this time. 496 00:29:57,430 --> 00:29:59,070 DJ Nik: Not gunned down, but in a gulag. 497 00:29:59,070 --> 00:30:00,030 Case: Yes, yeah. 498 00:30:00,030 --> 00:30:00,870 Case: And that creates a. 499 00:30:00,870 --> 00:30:03,600 Case: A direct reason for him to hate Superman. 500 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,800 Case: At the very least because he says Superman. 501 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,920 Case: You know, like, it's. 502 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:16,360 Case: It's likely that there was some sort of connection between his parents and Superman vaguely, because that seems to be the purpose of this gulag. 503 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:21,680 Case: Or at the very least, it seems that, like, people in this gulag were like, hoping Superman would free them and he didn't. 504 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:28,560 Case: At the very least, he had set up in his head that Superman should have known and should have freed him in this whole situation. 505 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,980 Case: And that at least creates a personal stake. 506 00:30:31,980 --> 00:30:37,860 Case: Because what's one thing that's interesting is that this movie has a much reduced supporting cast compared to the comics. 507 00:30:37,860 --> 00:30:39,940 Case: The comic actually, like, has some. 508 00:30:40,020 --> 00:30:41,620 Case: Has some panels of the Daily Planet. 509 00:30:41,620 --> 00:30:42,820 Case: So we actually see Perry White. 510 00:30:42,820 --> 00:30:46,020 Case: We actually, you know, we see like other reporters of the Daily Planet. 511 00:30:46,020 --> 00:30:55,620 Case: And there's the character of Pyotr Roslav, who is sort of Clark or rather Superman's political rival in the Russian government at like, as a. 512 00:30:55,620 --> 00:30:56,820 Case: Separately aspiring. 513 00:30:57,810 --> 00:30:59,330 Case: He's a bastard son of Stalin. 514 00:30:59,490 --> 00:31:03,250 Case: And he's the character in the comic who kills the Batman's parents. 515 00:31:03,650 --> 00:31:04,130 Case: Yeah. 516 00:31:05,970 --> 00:31:08,610 Case: And then he shoots the Batman in the shoulder on his way out. 517 00:31:09,170 --> 00:31:21,090 Case: And so it's interesting that they do a much better job here of establishing a reason for this Batman to hate this Superman as opposed to the Batman in the comic just kind of hates the state, which is fair. 518 00:31:23,330 --> 00:31:24,770 Case: There's a lot of reasons to hate the state. 519 00:31:25,090 --> 00:31:27,170 Case: Even after the reform Superman makes. 520 00:31:27,330 --> 00:31:31,470 Case: And Superman in the movie jumps to much more hardcore reforms. 521 00:31:31,870 --> 00:31:32,510 Case: Much faster. 522 00:31:32,910 --> 00:31:33,390 Case: Yeah. 523 00:31:34,830 --> 00:31:41,310 Case: Anyway, long story short, we get the introduction of Batman, who's going to be a big part of Act 2 of this movie, and that's important. 524 00:31:41,790 --> 00:31:44,390 Case: Anyway, so the confrontation with Stalin. 525 00:31:44,390 --> 00:31:46,350 Case: So, yeah, that's not in the fucking comic. 526 00:31:46,430 --> 00:31:53,470 Case: And that's where it's interesting, because this movie moves stuff around in terms of the placing of things. 527 00:31:53,790 --> 00:31:58,000 Case: And so Stalin just dies in the comic. 528 00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:58,520 Case: Like, he. 529 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,600 Case: Whatever fucking reason he died from. 530 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:00,880 Case: In the. 531 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,800 Case: In the real world, you know, combination of alcoholism and old age. 532 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:05,840 Jmike: I thought it was Cat. 533 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,080 Jmike: He had Petra poisoned him. 534 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,440 Case: Well, yeah, it's implied that he was poisoned in the. 535 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:11,960 Case: In the comic, but, like. 536 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,400 DJ Nik: But in the real world, I guess he just died of old age is what it is. 537 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:16,880 Case: Supreme. 538 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,400 Case: Alcoholism was, like, a very big thing for him. 539 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:24,790 Case: So, like, old age is, like, in quotes, but, like, liver failure was probably, like, the honest answer on this one. 540 00:32:25,260 --> 00:32:29,580 Case: Check out behind the Bastards, by the way, as a podcast about terrible people. 541 00:32:29,980 --> 00:32:34,460 Case: A very early episode was like their Stalin episode, because, of course, Stalin was an early episode. 542 00:32:34,620 --> 00:32:43,020 Case: And it's a really good breakdown of, like, just how terrible a person this was, who I believe was, interestingly, a poet. 543 00:32:43,500 --> 00:32:46,620 Case: So, like, you know, weird. 544 00:32:46,620 --> 00:32:49,420 Case: Weird shit for these characters or for these people in. 545 00:32:49,420 --> 00:32:49,980 Case: In history. 546 00:32:50,220 --> 00:32:50,540 Case: But. 547 00:32:50,540 --> 00:32:55,570 Case: But, yeah, so we get the cathartic moment of Superman fucking gunning down with his eyes. 548 00:32:55,810 --> 00:33:04,930 Case: Joseph Stalin in this, which is made to be seen as the right choice after seeing this gulag, seeing all this terrible suffering. 549 00:33:05,170 --> 00:33:07,970 Case: And Svetlana dies, Right. 550 00:33:08,290 --> 00:33:08,770 Case: Yep. 551 00:33:08,770 --> 00:33:09,810 Jmike: Yeah, she dies. 552 00:33:09,810 --> 00:33:17,010 Jmike: Also, we're forgetting a huge point about the gulags that he would never have, like, known on his own is that they're all covered in lead. 553 00:33:17,890 --> 00:33:18,970 Jmike: So they went out of the way. 554 00:33:18,970 --> 00:33:19,090 Jmike: Yes. 555 00:33:19,090 --> 00:33:21,130 DJ Nik: You couldn't see below what was going on. 556 00:33:21,130 --> 00:33:21,570 Jmike: Yeah. 557 00:33:22,610 --> 00:33:22,810 Case: Yeah. 558 00:33:22,810 --> 00:33:24,410 Case: So it's not just a horrible thing being done. 559 00:33:24,410 --> 00:33:28,610 Case: It's a horrible thing being done kind of in his name and away from his knowledge. 560 00:33:29,170 --> 00:33:29,650 Jmike: Yeah. 561 00:33:30,930 --> 00:33:31,650 Case: Intentionally. 562 00:33:32,050 --> 00:33:32,410 Case: And. 563 00:33:32,410 --> 00:33:35,250 Case: And Stalin admits it like, that. 564 00:33:36,130 --> 00:33:37,650 Case: That was just the thing that he was doing. 565 00:33:38,290 --> 00:33:41,650 Jmike: It's like that scene in Prince of Egypt where Pharaoh is like, my son. 566 00:33:41,890 --> 00:33:43,170 Jmike: There are only slaves. 567 00:33:43,490 --> 00:33:44,570 Jmike: We had to die. 568 00:33:44,570 --> 00:33:48,070 Case: You know, so, yeah, that's a. 569 00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:50,190 Case: That's a big kind of shift right there. 570 00:33:50,190 --> 00:33:54,790 Case: And then, like, you know, when Superman takes out Stalin, everyone just kind of bows down. 571 00:33:55,510 --> 00:33:55,870 Jmike: Yeah. 572 00:33:55,870 --> 00:33:57,070 Jmike: Everyone kind of goes along with it. 573 00:33:57,070 --> 00:33:58,230 Jmike: You're like, oh, that was quick. 574 00:33:59,030 --> 00:33:59,910 Case: Right now. 575 00:33:59,910 --> 00:34:02,070 Case: So here is the spot that is, like, kind of. 576 00:34:02,870 --> 00:34:04,510 Case: I am missing a thing from the comic, which. 577 00:34:04,510 --> 00:34:08,190 Case: In the comic, after Stalin dies, everyone wants Superman to take over. 578 00:34:08,190 --> 00:34:09,830 Case: And he refuses for a while. 579 00:34:10,550 --> 00:34:12,710 Case: And there's no way for him to do. 580 00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:16,159 Case: To, like, actively refuse them at this point after he just killed Stalin. 581 00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:18,440 Case: Like, there's no way that story plays out that way. 582 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:25,080 Case: But what I do kind of wish is that we had gotten some more vibes of him being, like, people wanting him to be in charge. 583 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:26,400 Jmike: Yeah. 584 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,320 Case: Because this is, like, really early in the movie, too. 585 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:30,040 Jmike: Yeah. 586 00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:32,960 Case: So, you know, I don't. 587 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,840 Case: I. I don't know if there's a way, but it was kind of nice having the character, like, doing the whole. 588 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,560 Case: Like, I rejected it three times and before I finally accepted the responsibility. 589 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,920 Case: And in that, it's because in the comics, Fitlana, like, that's where he meets. 590 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,400 Jmike: Svetlana for the first time in a long time. 591 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:49,719 Case: Right. 592 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,360 Case: And she's like, oh, well, the situation is terrible, and it's only gonna get worse now that Stalin is dead. 593 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:55,560 Case: And he's like, no, it doesn't have to be. 594 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:56,679 Case: I can fix this. 595 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:58,360 Jmike: I can save everyone. 596 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:00,920 Case: And that's the end of the first issue. 597 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:02,200 Case: Anyway. 598 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,520 Case: So then we get the. 599 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:08,360 Jmike: Wonder Woman. 600 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:09,720 Case: Well, we get the Wonder Woman scene. 601 00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:11,220 Case: Yeah, this. 602 00:35:11,220 --> 00:35:13,020 Case: It's stripped down, but I think works fine. 603 00:35:13,260 --> 00:35:15,420 Case: We also get the introduction of Superior Man. 604 00:35:15,420 --> 00:35:20,940 Case: The introduction of Superior man happens first, and then we get the actual Wonder Woman scene because that leads directly into the fight. 605 00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:24,220 Case: So I do have a question about the Superior man scene. 606 00:35:24,380 --> 00:35:34,060 Case: So when they pull down the cloth that they're covering Superior man with, at first it's like, oh, that's really fucking big for just a dude. 607 00:35:34,140 --> 00:35:36,060 Case: And then they cut back to it. 608 00:35:36,060 --> 00:35:38,060 Case: You can see, oh, he's in some kind of box. 609 00:35:38,220 --> 00:35:41,180 Case: But then the soldiers appear to be outside of the box. 610 00:35:41,340 --> 00:35:42,530 Case: So is it actually just like. 611 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:42,920 Jmike: Like. 612 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:44,320 Case: Like a shed that is. 613 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,640 Case: It's like, two sides and a. 614 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:51,240 Case: And a roof, and the soldiers, like, are exposed because, like, otherwise, they're just shooting the box. 615 00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:55,440 Case: They're not actually shooting Superior man, which would make more sense if he was really a publicity stunt. 616 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:56,760 Case: But, like, isn't. 617 00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:01,000 Case: Anyway, it's just a silly detail I. I had while watching. 618 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:02,040 Case: While watching this thing. 619 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:02,520 Case: Yeah. 620 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:03,480 Case: So Superior Man. 621 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:08,040 Case: I. I kind of miss the powers being, like, kind of up in the comics. 622 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:08,800 Case: They have, like. 623 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,240 Case: I. I don't need all of it. 624 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:16,360 Case: Although, like, it might be a lot to add in this detail in. 625 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:22,280 Case: In the comics, when they get into this fight, Superior Man, I don't think they call him Superior Man. 626 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,880 Case: I think they just call him, like, warped copy or something like that. 627 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,040 Case: But anyway, Superman 2 or something. 628 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:28,880 Case: Yeah, whatever they call him in the comic. 629 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:33,600 Case: Like they have a couple of good spots where they do like bizarro versions of his powers. 630 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:44,660 Case: And so they have like telescopic X ray vision where he like accidentally fraught, like, causes like seizures, causes radiation poisoning for all these people inside a nuclear sub that's like trailing him. 631 00:36:44,660 --> 00:36:45,020 Jmike: Yeah. 632 00:36:45,020 --> 00:36:47,460 Case: And that causes them to launch a rocket. 633 00:36:47,620 --> 00:37:04,820 Case: And in response to the rocket, the comic version of Superior man frees Superman with his freezing, his ice vision because he's got the bizarro warped version of powers and then sacrifices himself and takes the rocket like off and like blows up. 634 00:37:05,060 --> 00:37:09,660 Case: I do kind of miss that this decision to say, you know, to sacrifice himself. 635 00:37:09,660 --> 00:37:13,920 Case: Like, I, I kind of love biz sorrows that are self sacrificing. 636 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:22,200 Case: And I wish that there was a moment of this character sort of having that same bit of redemption. 637 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,800 Jmike: Well, I mean, I don't think it would have worked in this movie though. 638 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,160 DJ Nik: No, I agree with J Mike. 639 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:27,360 DJ Nik: I don't think it would have worked. 640 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:29,680 Case: Like, I don't think they have time. 641 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,200 DJ Nik: And a half long if that. 642 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:33,680 Jmike: Yeah. 643 00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:37,680 Jmike: But he does have that moment of realization, like right before he melts. 644 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,490 Jmike: Or he's like, oh, me and hurt. 645 00:37:42,010 --> 00:37:43,810 Jmike: And like Superman's like, oh, you're gonna be okay. 646 00:37:43,810 --> 00:37:44,490 Jmike: What's going on? 647 00:37:45,130 --> 00:37:45,930 Jmike: Me hurt. 648 00:37:46,330 --> 00:37:51,130 Jmike: But I feel like the fight works better here with like how they've rearranged everything. 649 00:37:53,290 --> 00:37:54,970 Jmike: Like, it blends better. 650 00:37:55,290 --> 00:37:55,850 DJ Nik: I agree. 651 00:37:56,010 --> 00:38:05,340 Jmike: And yeah, and you get like more of Lex being almost a Reed Richards type of a character here where he's like, oh, whatever, cool. 652 00:38:05,970 --> 00:38:07,090 Jmike: This is part of the equation. 653 00:38:07,810 --> 00:38:08,610 Jmike: We're moving forward. 654 00:38:08,610 --> 00:38:09,370 Jmike: This doesn't really matter. 655 00:38:09,370 --> 00:38:09,890 Jmike: In the end. 656 00:38:09,970 --> 00:38:12,930 Case: I, I feel like that's a flanderized interpretation of Reed Richards. 657 00:38:12,930 --> 00:38:15,330 Case: But I understand what you're talking about. 658 00:38:17,730 --> 00:38:18,130 Jmike: Yeah. 659 00:38:18,130 --> 00:38:19,570 Jmike: Like, and justify the means. 660 00:38:19,570 --> 00:38:23,650 Jmike: This is just one part of the equation type thing with Lex going on for this movie. 661 00:38:23,650 --> 00:38:24,050 Jmike: Yeah. 662 00:38:24,370 --> 00:38:28,330 DJ Nik: But also when you seem like kind of keep telling his team to like, jack up the power. 663 00:38:28,330 --> 00:38:37,170 DJ Nik: Jack up the power and something I think it was starting to show you a little bit of the Lex that we know and his obsession with Superman to where he's prepared to, you know, push. 664 00:38:37,250 --> 00:38:41,330 DJ Nik: He has, you know, total disregard for anything outside of himself. 665 00:38:41,490 --> 00:38:47,689 DJ Nik: To where he's literally saying, even if this kills the creature, you know, I don't care as long as it gets the job done. 666 00:38:47,689 --> 00:38:51,090 DJ Nik: But then of course, when it fails, you know, Lex will never admit to being Wrong. 667 00:38:51,090 --> 00:38:52,930 DJ Nik: So he's like, yeah, I expected that to happen. 668 00:38:53,010 --> 00:38:58,690 DJ Nik: I think it also shows you know, some of the sides of Lexways more callous when it comes to whatever assets he has. 669 00:38:58,970 --> 00:39:04,490 DJ Nik: And heck, even it's one of the few times we actually see Lois not particularly happy with Lex at that point. 670 00:39:04,570 --> 00:39:05,610 DJ Nik: You killed this creature. 671 00:39:05,610 --> 00:39:06,490 DJ Nik: It's like, it's an it. 672 00:39:06,490 --> 00:39:07,730 DJ Nik: It's not a he and so on. 673 00:39:07,730 --> 00:39:13,130 DJ Nik: So he very much dehumanizes superior man, whereas Lois is, like, really upset. 674 00:39:13,610 --> 00:39:22,010 Case: It certainly is a pain point in the relationship between Lex and Lois, which is, like I said in this movie, much stronger than it is in the comics. 675 00:39:22,010 --> 00:39:25,210 Case: And so it is good to have some drama between them. 676 00:39:25,450 --> 00:39:27,630 Case: Although it ultimately, I don't think really goes anywhere. 677 00:39:28,900 --> 00:39:31,860 DJ Nik: Not really, no, because it's kind of forgotten, like, the next day. 678 00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:34,660 Case: But it's still good to. 679 00:39:34,660 --> 00:39:38,740 Case: To have like, a little bit of like, the, like, Lex, like, how could you do this kind of thing? 680 00:39:38,740 --> 00:39:39,700 Case: Because, like, the. 681 00:39:39,700 --> 00:39:43,220 Case: The Bizarro sacrificing himself because of an unreal. 682 00:39:43,220 --> 00:39:44,820 Case: Not an unrelated, but like a. 683 00:39:44,820 --> 00:39:48,340 Case: A accidental missile being fired off. 684 00:39:48,580 --> 00:39:53,660 Case: It is not villainous for Lex necessarily. 685 00:39:53,660 --> 00:39:56,270 Case: In fact, like, it kind of would have been doing the right thing. 686 00:39:56,510 --> 00:39:59,550 Case: And so, like, that's kind of a good thing. 687 00:40:00,030 --> 00:40:00,670 Case: So it. 688 00:40:01,390 --> 00:40:03,150 Case: We need to have some of this drama here. 689 00:40:03,150 --> 00:40:03,670 Case: Like this. 690 00:40:03,670 --> 00:40:07,030 Case: This is a much more morally good Lex, like, rereading the comics. 691 00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:07,630 Case: Like, oh, right. 692 00:40:07,630 --> 00:40:10,749 Case: Lex and Brainiac have, like, a deal at the beginning of issue two. 693 00:40:10,910 --> 00:40:12,510 Case: Like, they're teamed up with each other. 694 00:40:12,990 --> 00:40:21,230 Case: Like, and that kind of is phased out just so that Lex can sort of remain like a fairly straightforward American antagonist who is. 695 00:40:21,340 --> 00:40:25,180 Case: Is perhaps a little too bright for his own good, but, like, seems to be. 696 00:40:26,060 --> 00:40:32,860 Case: And, like, a little cold about stuff, but, like, is at least like, on the American side of history in this all. 697 00:40:33,340 --> 00:40:39,660 DJ Nik: And I think also you wanted to retain Lois's humanity as well as in she's not accepting everything her husband is doing. 698 00:40:39,820 --> 00:40:40,180 Case: Yes. 699 00:40:40,180 --> 00:40:40,940 Case: And he's not doing. 700 00:40:40,940 --> 00:40:45,100 DJ Nik: I think that might have caused reactions from people like, why is Lois suddenly this evil? 701 00:40:45,100 --> 00:40:47,480 DJ Nik: Lois who's like, completely cool about. 702 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:48,000 DJ Nik: About what. 703 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:49,000 DJ Nik: What her husband is doing. 704 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:54,120 DJ Nik: So I think they wanted to do that was to retain, you know, not maybe piss people off that this might be. 705 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:55,840 DJ Nik: It's like, this is not Lois Lane. 706 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:56,440 DJ Nik: What are you doing? 707 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,680 DJ Nik: You know, so I think it kind of makes sense that she would be outraged. 708 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:00,720 Case: Right. 709 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:06,680 Case: And she'd be outraged about a thing that is, like, in the grand scheme of things, of, like, what Lex could. 710 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,640 Case: Could be doing isn't that bad. 711 00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:09,760 Case: Like, he's got a. 712 00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:14,480 Case: He created, like, we don't know that much about, like, the creation process of this by. 713 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,640 Case: By virtue of it not being like a full on bizarro. 714 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,740 Case: I'm not entirely convinced that it clone, like it's a lab experiment. 715 00:41:20,740 --> 00:41:23,660 Case: But, like, what's going on with it? 716 00:41:23,660 --> 00:41:25,500 Case: It looks like pretty good at first. 717 00:41:26,780 --> 00:41:27,220 DJ Nik: Yeah. 718 00:41:27,220 --> 00:41:28,420 Case: And then it kind of breaks down. 719 00:41:28,420 --> 00:41:29,180 Case: So, like, it. 720 00:41:30,540 --> 00:41:31,580 Case: So what. 721 00:41:31,580 --> 00:41:32,700 Case: What are we dealing with here? 722 00:41:32,940 --> 00:41:34,620 Case: But he refers to it as an it. 723 00:41:34,620 --> 00:41:37,300 Case: And if you don't think of it as a human being that. 724 00:41:37,300 --> 00:41:38,620 Case: That sort of broke down. 725 00:41:38,620 --> 00:41:40,580 Case: But if you think of it as like a robot that. 726 00:41:40,580 --> 00:41:45,620 Case: That kind of broke down, then it's less, you know, less. 727 00:41:45,620 --> 00:41:52,620 Case: Less bad versus, like the Lex in the comics who very much like, murder scientists that he works with because he's frustrated with their notes. 728 00:41:53,100 --> 00:41:53,620 Jmike: Yep. 729 00:41:53,620 --> 00:42:01,900 Case: So, like, so we want a character, Alois, who is less complicit in, like, the straight up war crimes of her husband. 730 00:42:01,900 --> 00:42:05,340 Case: And her husband has less bad war crimes in this, I guess, is what I'm getting. 731 00:42:05,580 --> 00:42:06,860 Case: But then we get a time jump. 732 00:42:06,860 --> 00:42:09,300 Case: And so we get a very on the nose. 733 00:42:09,300 --> 00:42:10,700 Case: I tear down this wall. 734 00:42:10,860 --> 00:42:11,260 Jmike: Why? 735 00:42:12,950 --> 00:42:25,190 Case: Which, speaking as someone whose parents have like a piece of the Berlin Wall signed by Ronald Reagan at their house, like, because, you know, Reaganite parents, I was tickled by the. 736 00:42:25,190 --> 00:42:30,910 Case: I tear down this wall and then we get the Superman museum scene. 737 00:42:30,910 --> 00:42:33,750 Case: And this is where my brain broke for a minute there, because. 738 00:42:34,310 --> 00:42:39,270 Case: So in the comic that is explicitly Svetlana, and it looks like Svetlana in this scene. 739 00:42:39,970 --> 00:42:42,610 Jmike: Yeah, like, I was very confused. 740 00:42:43,010 --> 00:42:43,570 DJ Nik: Yes. 741 00:42:43,570 --> 00:42:46,210 DJ Nik: Random Russian curator, I guess. 742 00:42:46,370 --> 00:42:48,690 Case: Random Russian curator who is a redhead. 743 00:42:48,690 --> 00:42:51,490 Case: But like I said, in the comic itself, the character. 744 00:42:51,490 --> 00:42:54,810 Case: The character who's in the equivalent scene is actually Svetlana. 745 00:42:54,810 --> 00:42:57,130 Case: Like, and they is, like, canonically set Lana. 746 00:42:57,130 --> 00:42:59,730 Case: So what confused me here is like, wait, is that just Fetlana? 747 00:42:59,730 --> 00:43:00,610 Case: Like, did she survive? 748 00:43:00,610 --> 00:43:05,250 Case: Like, I thought she died and then they just blow her up and they don't say anything about it. 749 00:43:05,250 --> 00:43:07,830 Case: And like, so it's like, probably not. 750 00:43:07,830 --> 00:43:11,390 DJ Nik: Svetlana, but I guess Superman has a type. 751 00:43:11,390 --> 00:43:13,750 DJ Nik: Possibly, maybe. 752 00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:15,270 Case: And that's actually creepier. 753 00:43:15,510 --> 00:43:20,790 Case: It's like Liberace, his boyfriends that he would make do plastic surgery until they all kind of looked the same. 754 00:43:21,829 --> 00:43:22,550 DJ Nik: Exactly. 755 00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:22,950 Case: Yeah. 756 00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:25,750 Case: So it just was a weird moment there because. 757 00:43:25,830 --> 00:43:29,990 Case: And again, would it have been so rough if I hadn't read the comics? 758 00:43:29,990 --> 00:43:30,710 Case: I don't know. 759 00:43:30,870 --> 00:43:33,010 Case: But it certainly looked like a Lana Lang type. 760 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:35,160 DJ Nik: Yes, I agree. 761 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,000 Jmike: I didn't want to go there. 762 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,880 DJ Nik: I actually have to ask you guys, you know, I know we're. 763 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,440 DJ Nik: We're pedaling back here a little bit, but in the comics, do they show Superman's adoptive. 764 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,000 DJ Nik: Russian adoptive parents at all? 765 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,280 DJ Nik: Because here we don't get anything. 766 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,200 Case: No, it's even less in the comics. 767 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:51,080 DJ Nik: Okay. 768 00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:54,160 Case: Like, we don't get that scene of him, like, with Svetlana as a kid. 769 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:58,280 Case: Like, it just starts with him, like, on the scene all of a sudden after being. 770 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,440 Case: You know, like, it starts with the newsreels. 771 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:02,760 Case: The. 772 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,040 Case: The newsreel stuff about, like, reports are coming in from that. 773 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,640 Case: From Russia that they have a Superman. 774 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,120 Case: Yeah, it's Eisenhower, but it's like intercut with, like, other news. 775 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:14,640 Case: News sources and people responding. 776 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,720 Case: Like, there's like, shots of the Daily Planet as they react to it all. 777 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:20,440 Jmike: Like I said, I prefer this intro better. 778 00:44:21,720 --> 00:44:23,800 Jmike: This intro is much better than it is in the comics. 779 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:25,160 Case: Yes. 780 00:44:25,570 --> 00:44:31,810 Case: In my opinion, I don't think the comics one would have worked in the movie and vice versa. 781 00:44:32,210 --> 00:44:36,450 Case: Like, I don't know, like, if you would have the page space for that, the child intro. 782 00:44:36,450 --> 00:44:37,770 Case: But I think it works really well. 783 00:44:37,770 --> 00:44:41,890 Case: And like I said, it establishes theme of Superman being manipulative or. 784 00:44:41,890 --> 00:44:43,090 Case: Pardon me, manipulative. 785 00:44:43,810 --> 00:44:44,930 Case: Manipulatable. 786 00:44:45,250 --> 00:44:45,690 Case: Yes. 787 00:44:45,690 --> 00:44:46,010 Case: Right. 788 00:44:46,010 --> 00:44:46,770 Case: Manipulatable. 789 00:44:47,650 --> 00:44:50,450 DJ Nik: And it gave Tara strong reason to be in the movie. 790 00:44:50,450 --> 00:44:50,930 Case: Yes. 791 00:44:53,970 --> 00:44:55,730 Case: Gotta have terrorist strong in literally everything. 792 00:44:56,370 --> 00:44:57,410 Case: Yep, exactly. 793 00:44:57,490 --> 00:44:58,050 Case: Yeah. 794 00:44:58,690 --> 00:44:59,370 Case: So we get. 795 00:44:59,370 --> 00:45:01,730 Case: So we get the blowing up of the. 796 00:45:01,730 --> 00:45:06,210 Case: The Superman museum scene here, and we get a Batman who is very okay with the loss of life. 797 00:45:06,530 --> 00:45:10,490 Case: And that makes his cause, like, way less like, yay. 798 00:45:10,490 --> 00:45:10,930 Case: We're all. 799 00:45:10,930 --> 00:45:12,530 Case: We're all rah about this. 800 00:45:12,530 --> 00:45:12,850 Case: Right? 801 00:45:13,090 --> 00:45:15,330 Case: Like, this is a Batman that's way more compromised. 802 00:45:16,130 --> 00:45:16,850 Jmike: Oh, yeah. 803 00:45:18,380 --> 00:45:22,980 Jmike: He goes from like, oh, you guys have, like, 10 minutes to leave, and then boom. 804 00:45:22,980 --> 00:45:23,500 Jmike: Oops. 805 00:45:23,980 --> 00:45:25,540 Jmike: I really meant 10 seconds. 806 00:45:25,540 --> 00:45:26,060 Jmike: Darn. 807 00:45:26,140 --> 00:45:28,100 Case: Like, it's that moment. 808 00:45:28,100 --> 00:45:32,700 Case: It's not just that he blew up a thing and there were civilians inside, but that he deliberately, like, fucked with them. 809 00:45:32,780 --> 00:45:35,500 Case: Like, is the part where, like, that doesn't quite feel like a Batman. 810 00:45:36,460 --> 00:45:39,100 DJ Nik: Yeah, I was like, is Batman the Unabomber now? 811 00:45:39,100 --> 00:45:40,060 DJ Nik: What's going on? 812 00:45:41,500 --> 00:45:43,020 Jmike: He doesn't care about it too. 813 00:45:43,020 --> 00:45:45,270 Jmike: He's like, oh, whatever, my work's done. 814 00:45:45,590 --> 00:45:46,430 Case: And then we get. 815 00:45:46,430 --> 00:45:57,270 Case: So we're reminded of where Wonder Woman is, and she is clearly allied with Superman at this point because she's wearing, like, a USSR themed version of her outfit. 816 00:45:57,350 --> 00:46:01,310 Case: But she is still being a little bit more removed than the comics one. 817 00:46:01,310 --> 00:46:03,390 Case: The comics one is, like, very explicitly an ally. 818 00:46:03,390 --> 00:46:04,870 Case: They go on adventures together. 819 00:46:05,350 --> 00:46:06,910 Case: And in. 820 00:46:06,910 --> 00:46:08,630 Case: In the comics, she's not like. 821 00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:12,430 Case: Or at least like, the way I read it is that she has, like, a bit of a crush on Superman. 822 00:46:13,220 --> 00:46:13,500 Case: Yeah. 823 00:46:13,500 --> 00:46:15,620 DJ Nik: Oh, so she's not openly gay in the comics? 824 00:46:15,620 --> 00:46:16,500 Jmike: No, no. 825 00:46:16,980 --> 00:46:17,780 Case: Because, like, the. 826 00:46:17,780 --> 00:46:19,620 Case: The moment of, like, someone hitting on. 827 00:46:19,620 --> 00:46:23,380 Case: On an Amazon and then pulling away is actually Stalin hitting on Hippolyta. 828 00:46:23,940 --> 00:46:24,420 Jmike: Yeah. 829 00:46:25,300 --> 00:46:25,780 DJ Nik: Wow. 830 00:46:26,660 --> 00:46:28,500 Case: And she pulls away because he's not old enough. 831 00:46:31,300 --> 00:46:34,340 Jmike: She's like, maybe from, like, 5,000 years older or something like that. 832 00:46:36,740 --> 00:46:47,680 Case: So there's like, this, like, vibe, this, like, puppy dog kind of vibe of Wonder Woman with Superman in the comics and that she's been like his, like, regular ally throughout this whole thing. 833 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,160 Case: The relationship is still like, we're. 834 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:56,320 Case: We're definitely working together, and she has a closer relationship with the USSR than she does the usa, but it's. 835 00:46:56,720 --> 00:46:58,960 Case: She's still trying to be more of a mediator, like. 836 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:05,640 Case: And I appreciate that, like, the Wonder Woman as ambassador kind of approach is, I think, the right tact for. 837 00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:06,480 Case: For the character. 838 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:07,880 Case: And that's kind of awkward in the. 839 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,680 Case: In the comics where she kind of, like, after. 840 00:47:10,930 --> 00:47:19,650 Case: Like, after the events with their confrontation with Batman, she just becomes an enemy of Superman and is, like, part of the enemy crew that he dispatches pretty quickly. 841 00:47:20,370 --> 00:47:22,370 Jmike: Yeah, that was weird. 842 00:47:23,570 --> 00:47:25,970 Jmike: But I do like her turn more. 843 00:47:26,210 --> 00:47:27,010 Case: Yes, yes. 844 00:47:27,250 --> 00:47:29,650 Jmike: It gives it much more legs or. 845 00:47:29,730 --> 00:47:30,170 Jmike: Yeah. 846 00:47:30,170 --> 00:47:31,250 Jmike: Better legs to run on. 847 00:47:31,410 --> 00:47:31,730 Case: Yeah. 848 00:47:31,730 --> 00:47:37,550 Case: So, like, my next note after Wonder Woman's appearance is that we get to the actual, like, Batman, like, ambush of Superman. 849 00:47:37,870 --> 00:47:40,230 Case: And I'm sure there's stuff that I'm skipping over. 850 00:47:40,230 --> 00:47:41,470 Case: I think we skip over the. 851 00:47:43,310 --> 00:47:43,710 Case: The. 852 00:47:44,430 --> 00:47:48,590 Case: The meeting with the guy from the People's Republic of China, I think happens. 853 00:47:48,590 --> 00:47:50,070 DJ Nik: In this, like, happens later on. 854 00:47:50,070 --> 00:47:50,670 DJ Nik: That happens later. 855 00:47:50,670 --> 00:47:51,310 Case: Is that later? 856 00:47:51,310 --> 00:47:51,790 Case: Okay. 857 00:47:51,790 --> 00:47:52,190 Case: Yeah. 858 00:47:52,430 --> 00:47:53,750 Case: But either way, so we. 859 00:47:53,750 --> 00:48:00,750 Case: We have the confrontation between Batman and Superman with, like, the red sun lamps which are provided by Luthor, which they establish here. 860 00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:03,480 Jmike: Did they establish it here? 861 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:04,440 Case: They do establish it here. 862 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:09,080 Case: They said a mutual friend of ours from America, which I. 863 00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:14,600 Jmike: Because I was wondering how they knew about the red sun stuff in the. 864 00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:15,240 Jmike: In the movie. 865 00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:24,560 Case: So that is the thing that I miss from the comics, which is there's a very good speech that Batman gives in the comics where he says, strange visitor from another world. 866 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,560 Case: Everything we needed to defeat you was right there in that expression. 867 00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:31,080 Case: All we needed to do was figure out the conditions of the world that you came from. 868 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:32,240 Case: And they have that from. 869 00:48:32,950 --> 00:48:33,990 Case: From Superior Man. 870 00:48:34,150 --> 00:48:34,750 Case: And they. 871 00:48:34,750 --> 00:48:35,950 Case: They explain that in. 872 00:48:35,950 --> 00:48:36,590 Case: In the comic. 873 00:48:36,590 --> 00:48:39,510 Case: And they don't explain it enough here because he just. 874 00:48:39,910 --> 00:48:41,550 Jmike: He just somehow has the tech. 875 00:48:41,550 --> 00:48:43,110 DJ Nik: Like somehow he just figured it out. 876 00:48:43,750 --> 00:48:44,070 Case: Right. 877 00:48:44,070 --> 00:48:45,750 Case: I understand that Lex can figure that out. 878 00:48:45,750 --> 00:48:51,430 Case: He's been able to grow a Superman, like, so I. I figure that he's able to figure that part of it out. 879 00:48:51,590 --> 00:48:58,070 Case: I do have a problem because this gets into the whole goddamn photovoltaic versus photosynthetic argument about Superman's power. 880 00:48:58,890 --> 00:49:02,490 Case: Like, immediately having his powers turn off when exposed to red sun. 881 00:49:02,490 --> 00:49:03,450 Case: I find annoying. 882 00:49:04,090 --> 00:49:10,090 Case: Yeah, I, I think that it should be like in the Animated series where it takes a little while for his powers to fully drain. 883 00:49:10,810 --> 00:49:11,370 Case: Mm. 884 00:49:12,570 --> 00:49:13,570 Jmike: I get, I get it. 885 00:49:13,570 --> 00:49:15,050 Jmike: In the context of a. 886 00:49:15,210 --> 00:49:18,890 Jmike: Of a 90 minute movie, you gotta things that we gotta go. 887 00:49:19,050 --> 00:49:21,250 Case: And this is the problem in both the comic and the movie. 888 00:49:21,250 --> 00:49:30,900 Case: Like, like they both have this issue, which is that they go off of the pre crisis version where all it takes is being immediately exposed and his powers just turn off and he's a regular dude. 889 00:49:31,860 --> 00:49:34,100 Jmike: Like I said, I understand it for the movie. 890 00:49:34,500 --> 00:49:38,340 Jmike: For the comic, it doesn't make any sense, but for the movie it works. 891 00:49:38,340 --> 00:49:39,380 Jmike: And we're like, all right, cool. 892 00:49:40,500 --> 00:49:42,180 Jmike: It's movie magic happening here. 893 00:49:42,180 --> 00:49:45,220 Jmike: We understand where they're coming from, but the scene's got to keep moving. 894 00:49:45,940 --> 00:49:47,940 DJ Nik: It was more for expediency than anything else. 895 00:49:47,940 --> 00:49:54,410 DJ Nik: But I share your gripe there, Case, when it comes to that, because it's like, yeah, you, like, switch the light off and boom. 896 00:49:54,410 --> 00:49:55,570 DJ Nik: He's just a regular dude. 897 00:49:55,570 --> 00:49:58,410 DJ Nik: I'm like, that really isn't how it works. 898 00:49:58,490 --> 00:50:03,650 Case: Well, and it would work better with like, Birdman, who is like, oh, show. 899 00:50:03,650 --> 00:50:05,330 Case: That's fair, you know, like, who. 900 00:50:05,330 --> 00:50:08,450 Case: It's like, oh, we turn the lights off and all of a sudden his powers fade. 901 00:50:08,450 --> 00:50:08,930 Case: Faded. 902 00:50:08,930 --> 00:50:12,570 Case: Like, who has to have, like, constant light exposure for his powers to work. 903 00:50:12,650 --> 00:50:20,890 Case: Or like Apollo, who is like Superman, but his battery is very small and like, runs out of power very quickly when he's been fighting in dark spaces. 904 00:50:21,050 --> 00:50:29,110 Case: Like, those areas where it makes more sense because, like, then all of a sudden his energy is like, burned out very quickly and he doesn't have any way to recharge. 905 00:50:29,270 --> 00:50:30,470 Case: Yada, yada. 906 00:50:30,550 --> 00:50:36,790 Case: But, like, all they had to do was turn off the lights and all of a sudden his powers came back on without being exposed to sunlight. 907 00:50:37,830 --> 00:50:40,630 DJ Nik: Yeah, Just as quickly as they're gone, his powers come back. 908 00:50:40,630 --> 00:50:41,030 Case: Right. 909 00:50:41,190 --> 00:50:46,110 Case: Okay, so this was acting more as a suppressor to his abilities than necessary. 910 00:50:46,110 --> 00:50:48,430 Case: Like, it again, it's in the com. 911 00:50:48,430 --> 00:50:48,830 Case: This is. 912 00:50:48,830 --> 00:50:49,170 Jmike: This is. 913 00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:55,840 Case: Is not me, like, having a debate about, like, this is me going into a pedantic detail. 914 00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:57,560 Case: Because I need to go into this pedantic detail. 915 00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:58,360 Case: Like, I understand. 916 00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,880 Case: I understand that this is not like the point. 917 00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:03,800 DJ Nik: Oh, no, it's fair. 918 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:05,080 Case: It's a fair point. 919 00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,320 DJ Nik: You know, I can see why it's. 920 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:07,720 DJ Nik: It can. 921 00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:08,880 DJ Nik: It can be frustrating. 922 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:09,200 Case: It. 923 00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,080 Case: It just drives me goddamn crazy. 924 00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:12,600 Case: Especially like. 925 00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,390 Case: Especially with this version of Superman that we. 926 00:51:16,020 --> 00:51:18,100 Case: I mean, we're well into spoiler territory here. 927 00:51:18,100 --> 00:51:19,660 Case: And people like. 928 00:51:19,660 --> 00:51:22,980 Case: So, Nick, do you know the twist from the comics that was not included in this movie? 929 00:51:23,140 --> 00:51:23,980 DJ Nik: No, I do not. 930 00:51:23,980 --> 00:51:25,220 DJ Nik: But feel free to share it. 931 00:51:25,460 --> 00:51:26,020 Case: Okay. 932 00:51:26,100 --> 00:51:38,780 Case: So at the very end of the comic, we follow the Earth from the perspective of Superman, who is living in, like, living in, you know, plain clothes. 933 00:51:38,780 --> 00:51:39,180 Case: Plain clothes? 934 00:51:39,180 --> 00:51:39,540 Case: Yeah. 935 00:51:39,700 --> 00:51:41,060 Case: He's living as a normal person. 936 00:51:41,690 --> 00:51:42,250 Case: Obscurity. 937 00:51:42,730 --> 00:51:45,850 Case: And he sees the generations go on. 938 00:51:46,330 --> 00:51:55,170 Case: And eventually it gets to the point where Lex Luthor's children and grandchildren, great grandchildren, the Luth's and their great children, Power 50. 939 00:51:55,170 --> 00:51:55,450 Case: Yeah. 940 00:51:55,450 --> 00:51:57,010 Case: And their great children and so forth. 941 00:51:57,010 --> 00:52:02,610 Case: The elves become like prominent scientists who now that the Earth is. 942 00:52:02,610 --> 00:52:06,690 Case: Is old and the sun has become old and red, goes to the council saying that. 943 00:52:06,690 --> 00:52:07,970 Case: That their world is doomed. 944 00:52:07,970 --> 00:52:20,660 Case: And so Jor El, you know, great descendant of Lex Luthor, to the power of 50, sends his child into the past, hoping to like break the cycle of the world becoming old and decrepit and whatnot. 945 00:52:20,660 --> 00:52:26,940 Case: And that crash lands in the Ukraine in the like 1930s and is supposed to be Superman. 946 00:52:26,940 --> 00:52:36,080 Case: And so this plays on this original idea that Superman is like a human, like evolved, you know, a million folders, but it. 947 00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:37,320 Case: It does it directly. 948 00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:41,960 Case: And that's like one of the fun twists of the comic that has nothing to do with Superman Red. 949 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:42,280 Case: So. 950 00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:44,920 DJ Nik: But it gives you, I guess, the cyclical nature of the what. 951 00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:45,640 DJ Nik: What we're seeing. 952 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:46,480 DJ Nik: I suppose that. 953 00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:48,280 DJ Nik: Yes, cycle, I guess. 954 00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:49,120 Case: And. 955 00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:51,520 Case: And there is no way they could do that in this movie. 956 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:55,120 DJ Nik: Like, no, people, I mean, me personally even, I would probably. 957 00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:56,200 DJ Nik: My mind would probably burn. 958 00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:57,880 DJ Nik: Like, what the hell was that? 959 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:00,320 DJ Nik: Probably wouldn't work. 960 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:02,880 DJ Nik: And also think people may not familiar with the comics and stuff. 961 00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:07,860 DJ Nik: I think it might have been a little bit too much, you know, I mean, I know you mentioned the ending here. 962 00:53:07,860 --> 00:53:12,860 DJ Nik: I think the ending here was much more clean cut and served movie. 963 00:53:13,180 --> 00:53:18,220 Case: Like I said, the twist ending of the comic has nothing to do with the actual story of Red Sun. 964 00:53:18,380 --> 00:53:20,220 Case: Like it could be any Superman story. 965 00:53:20,220 --> 00:53:21,980 Case: Could have used that as the whole Deal. 966 00:53:21,980 --> 00:53:24,500 Case: The only thing it means is that you don't have Kryptonite. 967 00:53:24,500 --> 00:53:26,860 Case: The only thing you have to use against Superman is Red Son. 968 00:53:27,580 --> 00:53:31,100 Case: And he doesn't come from a world with a higher gravity because he comes from fucking Earth. 969 00:53:31,260 --> 00:53:33,890 DJ Nik: So he was a human all along. 970 00:53:33,890 --> 00:53:34,810 DJ Nik: He was never an alien. 971 00:53:34,810 --> 00:53:35,090 Case: He's. 972 00:53:35,090 --> 00:53:35,450 Case: Exactly. 973 00:53:35,450 --> 00:53:36,330 Case: He's a human all along. 974 00:53:36,330 --> 00:53:45,050 Case: Which is one of the interesting details there, which is that his whole, like, well, I should leave humanity alone is actually wrong because he's always been a part of humanity. 975 00:53:45,050 --> 00:53:49,529 Case: In fact, he was sent back and intentionally to break the cycle of humanity. 976 00:53:49,529 --> 00:53:51,890 Case: Like killing themselves and that. 977 00:53:51,890 --> 00:53:52,370 Case: Yeah. 978 00:53:53,730 --> 00:54:02,220 Case: And we're not very good at it in the real world at breaking the cycle of killing ourselves anyway, so. 979 00:54:02,380 --> 00:54:08,100 Case: J. Mike, you brought up the Wonder Woman breaking her lasso and that whole thing. 980 00:54:08,100 --> 00:54:10,060 Case: I think it is a lot better in this movie. 981 00:54:10,540 --> 00:54:14,460 Jmike: It is because, like, we keep going back to the comic. 982 00:54:15,019 --> 00:54:20,860 Jmike: In the comic, she, like, she breaks the lasso because Superman is. 983 00:54:20,860 --> 00:54:24,020 Jmike: He's legit manipulating her to do it for. 984 00:54:24,020 --> 00:54:24,700 Jmike: To save him. 985 00:54:24,700 --> 00:54:27,470 Case: Oh, he's so fuckboy using, like, doing that. 986 00:54:27,630 --> 00:54:28,190 Case: Like, he. 987 00:54:28,830 --> 00:54:30,590 Case: He's being like Diana, like, if. 988 00:54:30,590 --> 00:54:34,830 Case: If our relationship ever meant anything to you, please save me. 989 00:54:36,190 --> 00:54:36,750 DJ Nik: Wow. 990 00:54:37,150 --> 00:54:37,710 DJ Nik: Okay. 991 00:54:38,030 --> 00:54:38,870 Case: He's so. 992 00:54:38,870 --> 00:54:39,190 Case: He. 993 00:54:39,190 --> 00:54:44,670 Case: He's being Steve Trevor from the failed Wonder Woman pilot with the Adrian Plicky. 994 00:54:45,070 --> 00:54:46,430 Jmike: We don't talk about that. 995 00:54:48,270 --> 00:54:49,990 Jmike: Like, we don't need to bring that up anymore. 996 00:54:49,990 --> 00:54:54,610 Case: So doing, like, Fuckboy manipulations on Wonder Woman, like, and it's. 997 00:54:54,610 --> 00:54:55,330 Case: It's gross. 998 00:54:55,570 --> 00:54:56,770 Case: But you know what? 999 00:54:57,090 --> 00:54:57,730 Case: It's real. 1000 00:55:00,450 --> 00:55:01,730 Jmike: But, like, when she breaks. 1001 00:55:01,730 --> 00:55:02,530 Jmike: When she breaks. 1002 00:55:02,530 --> 00:55:06,930 Jmike: When she breaks the lasso in the comic, she straight up, like, it looks like she lost her. 1003 00:55:07,330 --> 00:55:08,210 Jmike: Her powers. 1004 00:55:08,529 --> 00:55:10,450 Jmike: She looks, like, physically drained. 1005 00:55:10,450 --> 00:55:11,850 Jmike: She ages a lot. 1006 00:55:11,850 --> 00:55:15,650 Jmike: Yeah, they do a better job of it in the. 1007 00:55:16,210 --> 00:55:19,290 Jmike: In the movie where it looks like she's just really tired and she flies. 1008 00:55:19,290 --> 00:55:26,110 DJ Nik: Off and we just have the white hair, I guess, which is pretty much it giving you, I guess, that her energy's been drained, I suppose. 1009 00:55:26,190 --> 00:55:26,670 Case: Yeah. 1010 00:55:26,830 --> 00:55:31,950 Case: I think that they do a better job of keeping her power of action. 1011 00:55:31,950 --> 00:55:34,790 Case: Once she breaks it, she does a bunch of things as opposed to. 1012 00:55:34,790 --> 00:55:37,590 Case: I think she just breaks and does one thing in the comic. 1013 00:55:37,590 --> 00:55:38,110 Case: I forget. 1014 00:55:38,110 --> 00:55:41,350 Case: Specifically deactivates the lights is the deal. 1015 00:55:41,350 --> 00:55:46,350 Case: But it's a much more bombastic scene in the movie, which is good. 1016 00:55:46,350 --> 00:55:51,450 Case: But I think the fact that she's outraged is the really good part here. 1017 00:55:51,450 --> 00:55:53,810 Case: Like, she's not doing it because Superman's begging. 1018 00:55:53,890 --> 00:55:56,210 Case: She's doing it because she's really pissed. 1019 00:55:56,370 --> 00:56:01,410 Case: She's really frustrated to be, like, captured by Batman and be taunted and be powerless in the. 1020 00:56:01,730 --> 00:56:02,450 Case: The situation. 1021 00:56:02,850 --> 00:56:04,169 Jmike: And just taunted. 1022 00:56:04,169 --> 00:56:08,450 Jmike: He was controlling her too, because, like, he had a whole line of, like, you do anything else? 1023 00:56:08,450 --> 00:56:11,730 Jmike: She can't even hurt me because, like, I told her she can't do anything. 1024 00:56:12,050 --> 00:56:13,570 Jmike: So if she does that, she's gonna die. 1025 00:56:13,650 --> 00:56:14,810 Jmike: So what are you gonna do, Superman? 1026 00:56:14,810 --> 00:56:18,770 DJ Nik: She very much had her feel what had her feel of mankind and just men in general. 1027 00:56:19,030 --> 00:56:19,670 DJ Nik: Greatest point. 1028 00:56:19,750 --> 00:56:25,110 Case: And I also like that they say, like she says specifically, even you can't break this Superman. 1029 00:56:25,270 --> 00:56:27,030 Case: And then she goes ahead and breaks it herself. 1030 00:56:27,270 --> 00:56:30,150 Case: Which I like, because in this work as. 1031 00:56:30,390 --> 00:56:32,630 Case: As a movie, Wonder Woman. 1032 00:56:33,110 --> 00:56:35,990 Case: Wonder Woman feels more powerful than Superman. 1033 00:56:36,150 --> 00:56:36,870 DJ Nik: Oh, yes. 1034 00:56:36,950 --> 00:56:37,590 Case: Yeah. 1035 00:56:38,630 --> 00:56:39,910 Jmike: There's a scene later we could talk. 1036 00:56:39,910 --> 00:56:42,510 DJ Nik: About the whole thing with the lanterns. 1037 00:56:42,510 --> 00:56:43,910 DJ Nik: Oh, yeah, yeah. 1038 00:56:44,990 --> 00:56:46,750 Jmike: Well, like, but here she. 1039 00:56:46,750 --> 00:56:48,590 Jmike: She's just kind of over everything and then. 1040 00:56:49,230 --> 00:56:56,190 Jmike: And then bat or it's a badass scene when the lights turn off and all of a sudden Superman has his powers back and his eyes glow red. 1041 00:56:56,190 --> 00:56:57,470 Jmike: And I was like, that's awesome. 1042 00:56:57,630 --> 00:56:59,150 Case: That wasn't well handled. 1043 00:56:59,310 --> 00:57:02,350 DJ Nik: I genuinely was smiling to myself when that scene showed up. 1044 00:57:02,350 --> 00:57:03,550 DJ Nik: I was like, yeah, this is great. 1045 00:57:03,870 --> 00:57:04,670 Case: And I like his. 1046 00:57:04,670 --> 00:57:14,990 Case: His little speech and how that kind of turns off Wonder Woman, who is definitely reeling from the trauma of breaking her lasso of truth. 1047 00:57:15,390 --> 00:57:19,070 Case: Like, that turns her off to Superman as well. 1048 00:57:19,550 --> 00:57:31,070 Case: I wish that we could have had something like, in the comics where it sort of conveyed that, like, something was broken in Wonder Woman when the lasso was broken. 1049 00:57:31,070 --> 00:57:33,390 Case: Like, it was very traumatic for her. 1050 00:57:34,030 --> 00:57:37,430 Case: We do get that she's, like, got the white hair and she's very drained. 1051 00:57:37,430 --> 00:57:41,140 Case: But, like, the comic didn't handle it well because she just says it flat out. 1052 00:57:41,140 --> 00:57:55,140 Case: Like, I wish there was some kind of vibe that she is emotionally more battered than just physically battered from the breaking of the lasso. 1053 00:57:55,220 --> 00:58:08,710 Case: And so Superman doing, like, having this fairly reprehensible speech in front of her is particularly distasteful because she's going through, like, all the stuff on top of it. 1054 00:58:08,710 --> 00:58:16,950 Case: Like, you know, when you're having a bad brain day versus a good brain day and like, someone like, says something like, kind of shitty to you and like, your ability to, like, let it roll off your back. 1055 00:58:17,190 --> 00:58:19,550 Case: Like the, like, that's the. 1056 00:58:19,550 --> 00:58:21,270 Case: The difference I'm talking about there. 1057 00:58:22,070 --> 00:58:33,710 DJ Nik: Not to mention she's also seen all the darkness behind this so called perfect government that Superman was doing, where now everybody's pretty much brainwashed and she had seen that where there had been this. 1058 00:58:33,710 --> 00:58:34,030 DJ Nik: This. 1059 00:58:34,110 --> 00:58:36,030 DJ Nik: This kind of mental brainwashing going on. 1060 00:58:36,030 --> 00:58:37,830 DJ Nik: So that already wasn't sitting well with her. 1061 00:58:37,830 --> 00:58:38,070 Jmike: And. 1062 00:58:38,070 --> 00:58:42,270 DJ Nik: Yeah, and then he is basically, you know, threatening Batman that he'll do the same thing to him. 1063 00:58:43,470 --> 00:58:45,470 DJ Nik: He'll do that to me if I don't comply. 1064 00:58:45,710 --> 00:58:49,670 DJ Nik: So I guess she's kind of seeing the parallel of Stalin was kind of doing the same thing. 1065 00:58:49,670 --> 00:58:58,060 DJ Nik: He was like, oh, this is such a great place to live in, while behind the scenes, you were throwing people into gulags, and here everybody's, you know, compliant and happy, etc. 1066 00:58:58,060 --> 00:59:02,540 DJ Nik: But if you look at how the sausage is made, it's literally he's brainwashing people. 1067 00:59:02,540 --> 00:59:04,620 DJ Nik: And so clearly Diana wasn't happy with that. 1068 00:59:04,860 --> 00:59:08,660 Case: Yeah, that's also happening a little bit faster in the movie. 1069 00:59:08,660 --> 00:59:14,420 Case: And that, like, the slippery slope that Superman is on is much slipperier in this. 1070 00:59:14,420 --> 00:59:20,540 Case: Like, basically at the start of Act 2, he's already, like, under the control of Brainiac at this point. 1071 00:59:20,940 --> 00:59:22,060 Case: Assuming that all the. 1072 00:59:22,060 --> 00:59:24,960 Case: All the brain modification stuff is Brainiac stuff. 1073 00:59:25,030 --> 00:59:25,350 Case: Stuff. 1074 00:59:25,750 --> 00:59:27,510 Jmike: We didn't talk about the Brainiac part. 1075 00:59:29,990 --> 00:59:31,110 Jmike: Was it Stalingard? 1076 00:59:31,590 --> 00:59:32,550 Case: Stalingrad, yeah. 1077 00:59:32,790 --> 00:59:33,830 Jmike: Stalingrad, yeah. 1078 00:59:33,830 --> 00:59:34,270 Jmike: Like, he. 1079 00:59:34,270 --> 00:59:35,510 Jmike: He strings Stalingrad. 1080 00:59:35,510 --> 00:59:35,910 Case: Yes. 1081 00:59:36,390 --> 00:59:37,470 Jmike: And turns it into candy. 1082 00:59:37,470 --> 00:59:39,110 DJ Nik: The placehold hold of a candle. 1083 00:59:39,110 --> 00:59:39,470 DJ Nik: Yes. 1084 00:59:39,470 --> 00:59:40,390 Case: Yeah, yeah. 1085 00:59:41,190 --> 00:59:42,470 Case: Good, good use In. 1086 00:59:42,550 --> 00:59:42,950 Case: In. 1087 00:59:43,030 --> 00:59:45,710 Case: In both the movie and the comic and the movie, we. 1088 00:59:45,710 --> 00:59:47,510 Case: We get more time with it, which I appreciate. 1089 00:59:47,670 --> 00:59:54,820 Case: I need to, at this point, admit that I have been trying to pitch a Superman movie that is a Brainiac movie my entire life. 1090 00:59:54,820 --> 00:59:57,380 Case: I. I have been picturing that since. 1091 00:59:57,540 --> 00:59:59,540 Case: Since Independence Day came out. 1092 00:59:59,540 --> 01:00:02,060 Case: I have been saying that you could do a good Brainiac movie. 1093 01:00:02,060 --> 01:00:02,420 Case: Like. 1094 01:00:03,300 --> 01:00:08,260 Case: Like, you just do the effects of Independence Day, but instead of blowing up a city, it shrinks the city. 1095 01:00:08,420 --> 01:00:08,740 Case: And. 1096 01:00:08,740 --> 01:00:12,180 Case: And you got Brainiac drones that are things that look like the. 1097 01:00:12,180 --> 01:00:14,580 Case: The ships, and they look pretty good independence Day. 1098 01:00:14,580 --> 01:00:15,220 Case: And we already. 1099 01:00:15,300 --> 01:00:19,740 Case: We already saw that we could prove that a man could fly, and Neo double proved it for us. 1100 01:00:20,210 --> 01:00:21,090 Case: And so every. 1101 01:00:21,170 --> 01:00:25,930 Case: Every time we've had, like, jump forwards and technology, I've been saying, like, yeah, where's our Brainiac movie? 1102 01:00:25,930 --> 01:00:32,370 Case: And act two is obviously inside candor from the perspective of Superman, who has to deal with not having superpowers, that makes the most sense. 1103 01:00:33,570 --> 01:00:36,050 DJ Nik: Hopefully James Gunn's crew are listening case. 1104 01:00:39,090 --> 01:00:40,130 Case: Anyway, so. 1105 01:00:41,170 --> 01:00:43,970 Case: So we actually get a bit more time with Brainiac here. 1106 01:00:43,970 --> 01:00:49,890 Case: We get him being, like, this menacing, like, flying saucers shrinking down Stalingrad, and that's pretty cool. 1107 01:00:49,890 --> 01:00:56,370 Case: And that, like, we said it sets up a candor equivalent that is used very effectively later in the movie. 1108 01:00:56,770 --> 01:00:57,250 Jmike: Yep. 1109 01:00:57,250 --> 01:01:05,970 Case: But, yeah, so like, Superman, quote unquote defeats Brainiac and then quote unquote reprograms Brainiac and then quote unquote puts him to good use. 1110 01:01:06,370 --> 01:01:06,770 Case: But. 1111 01:01:07,010 --> 01:01:09,890 Case: But in reality, Brainiac is never put to good use and is. 1112 01:01:10,210 --> 01:01:12,690 Case: Is completely in charge of the situation from this point on. 1113 01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:21,920 Case: And, you know, like I said, you could make an argument that, like, everything, like, all the really bad stuff that Superman does is because of Brainiac kind of. 1114 01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:25,680 Case: Well, but they put Brainiac in place really early in this and. 1115 01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:30,720 Case: And all the bad things that are, like, super science bad things you assume are Brainiac. 1116 01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:31,040 Case: Right. 1117 01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:33,840 Jmike: Okay, I'm gonna have to fill up my. 1118 01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:35,920 Jmike: My very nerd hat here. 1119 01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:38,320 Jmike: Like, this is the whole Arthur's Lich King situation. 1120 01:01:39,130 --> 01:01:39,490 Jmike: Was it. 1121 01:01:39,490 --> 01:01:42,050 Jmike: Arthur's in control, Was allergic in control most of the time. 1122 01:01:42,050 --> 01:01:42,810 Jmike: Who knows? 1123 01:01:43,130 --> 01:01:50,410 Jmike: But, like, you could say, like, Superman thought he was doing something or he thought he was being good with the mind control devices. 1124 01:01:50,410 --> 01:01:52,090 Jmike: Like, oh, they just need it for a certain time. 1125 01:01:52,170 --> 01:01:57,930 Jmike: Or was it Brainiac telling him, oh, yes, Kal El, we can do all this stuff, like he usually does. 1126 01:01:58,170 --> 01:02:02,330 Jmike: We can repurpose them and have them work better for society. 1127 01:02:02,890 --> 01:02:04,090 Jmike: It's only temporary. 1128 01:02:04,970 --> 01:02:09,840 DJ Nik: It all plays back to how manipulated, how easily manipulated Superman is because he does things. 1129 01:02:09,990 --> 01:02:10,550 DJ Nik: Think he's doing good. 1130 01:02:10,550 --> 01:02:24,510 DJ Nik: Just like when he was under Stalin, he thought he was doing good, and now he's found a replacement for Stalin, he feels he's doing a good job because Brainiac is kind of, you know, I'm sure it's Brainiac on his shoulder, but he's actively participating in it. 1131 01:02:24,510 --> 01:02:25,670 DJ Nik: He's not questioning it. 1132 01:02:26,310 --> 01:02:27,430 Case: Like, I totally get. 1133 01:02:27,990 --> 01:02:33,230 Case: Or rather, I'm not saying that Superman is in no way complicit once Brainiac is, like, on the scene. 1134 01:02:33,230 --> 01:02:40,920 Case: I am just, like, arguing when Brainiacs being on the scene starts to matter for him because. 1135 01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:42,200 Jmike: Okay. 1136 01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:45,920 Case: So to address this. 1137 01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:54,760 Case: All right, so Arthas was clearly in the wrong for several of the details leading up to his ultimate succumbing to the Lich King, however, was he. 1138 01:02:55,160 --> 01:03:02,680 Case: However, once he pulled the sword and he was effectively under the control of the Lich King from that point. 1139 01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:03,400 Case: So we. 1140 01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:04,260 Jmike: How much though, Katie? 1141 01:03:04,650 --> 01:03:11,530 Case: I would argue that, well, we know that he gave up his soul, and so we're going a real nerd tangent here, guys. 1142 01:03:11,530 --> 01:03:17,250 Case: Yeah, yeah, we know that he gave up his soul, and we know that means that at the very least, like, his. 1143 01:03:17,250 --> 01:03:20,730 Case: His Basic moral barometer was gone from that point going forward, he's. 1144 01:03:20,730 --> 01:03:26,650 Case: He was effectively the same as a Lich in terms of his moral compass, which is to say non existent. 1145 01:03:26,810 --> 01:03:32,890 Case: And so even if he had some modicum of free will, he was still an agent of the Lich King from that point going forward. 1146 01:03:32,890 --> 01:03:36,930 Case: He had now, certainly once he fully fused with the Lich King, he was. 1147 01:03:36,930 --> 01:03:38,050 Case: He was fully evil. 1148 01:03:38,210 --> 01:03:39,810 Case: But to bring it back to the. 1149 01:03:39,890 --> 01:03:40,450 Case: But to. 1150 01:03:41,570 --> 01:03:45,210 Case: Yes, because they became one in the same entity. 1151 01:03:45,210 --> 01:03:47,250 Case: But to bring it back to the whole Superman situation. 1152 01:03:47,410 --> 01:04:03,770 Case: I would argue that Superman legitimately thought that he was expanding Soviet powers in the name of making the world a better place, but did not start incorporating super science until Brainiac was is, quote unquote, reprogrammed to work for him. 1153 01:04:04,250 --> 01:04:07,250 Case: This is not a Superman that has his own Fortress of Solitude. 1154 01:04:07,250 --> 01:04:08,010 Case: That, that way. 1155 01:04:08,010 --> 01:04:10,610 Case: Like this is not a Superman that we. 1156 01:04:10,610 --> 01:04:13,290 Case: We see having Superman robots and shit like that. 1157 01:04:13,290 --> 01:04:14,010 Case: Like, this is a. 1158 01:04:14,090 --> 01:04:15,530 Case: A Superman that does. 1159 01:04:15,610 --> 01:04:21,210 Case: That seems to rely on the technology of Brainiac once Brainiac is in place. 1160 01:04:21,370 --> 01:04:23,690 Case: And so I would imagine that the. 1161 01:04:23,930 --> 01:04:26,730 Case: The behavior modification stuff is only once. 1162 01:04:26,730 --> 01:04:29,550 Case: Brainiac is already manipulating him to a certain degree. 1163 01:04:30,420 --> 01:04:31,300 DJ Nik: Oh, most likely. 1164 01:04:31,380 --> 01:04:31,860 DJ Nik: But I. 1165 01:04:31,860 --> 01:04:32,460 DJ Nik: And I think. 1166 01:04:32,460 --> 01:04:35,660 DJ Nik: But it really much plays into, you know, to play armchair psychologist here. 1167 01:04:35,660 --> 01:04:44,580 DJ Nik: I think it very much just plays into the kind of person that this Superman is where he needs somebody to tell him what to do because he, you know, he's. 1168 01:04:44,580 --> 01:04:51,300 DJ Nik: He is almost like an empty vessel and gets filled by somebody else telling him what is right and such. 1169 01:04:51,300 --> 01:04:54,180 DJ Nik: And then he adopts those ideologies as his own. 1170 01:04:54,500 --> 01:05:05,250 DJ Nik: And so I think that's very much the case here as well, is just like when he was under, you know, as I said before, while he was under Stalin, he was being filled with, you know, make the Soviet Union great again and all this kind of thing. 1171 01:05:05,330 --> 01:05:13,530 DJ Nik: And even though he had those core values of doing the right thing, he needed somebody to push him that extra step for their own. 1172 01:05:13,530 --> 01:05:15,650 DJ Nik: To, you know, for their own gain. 1173 01:05:15,890 --> 01:05:18,530 DJ Nik: And so just like starting that is exactly what Brainiac did. 1174 01:05:18,530 --> 01:05:21,970 DJ Nik: He's like, this is an empty vessel that I can use for my own purposes. 1175 01:05:21,970 --> 01:05:22,800 DJ Nik: I mean, even the fact that. 1176 01:05:22,950 --> 01:05:32,950 DJ Nik: That he could have restored Candor, AKA Stalingrad and never did, and, you know, see him point out by Brain, like, I had the power to do this all the time, just never asked me to. 1177 01:05:33,270 --> 01:05:39,990 DJ Nik: And he and Superman used that as, you know, his sticking point of, well, going to work on it, we'll get there eventually. 1178 01:05:40,070 --> 01:05:47,790 DJ Nik: But then he used that then in his, you know, ideology to then move things forward of making the world a better place in honor of Stalingrad, almost. 1179 01:05:47,790 --> 01:05:48,330 DJ Nik: So even though. 1180 01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:54,720 DJ Nik: So maybe he even knew that the Brainiac could have brought it back lickety split. 1181 01:05:55,920 --> 01:06:02,000 Case: Okay, that's interesting, because he says, like Brainiac says, that it's implied. 1182 01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:03,440 Case: It's an implied vow. 1183 01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:13,200 Case: And I find that I took that to be that Superman was, like, running tests and trying to figure the whole thing out. 1184 01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:17,280 Case: Maybe he never asked directly, like, Brainiac, can you just reverse the process? 1185 01:06:17,890 --> 01:06:21,330 Case: But at the very least, like, he was certainly trying to fix it. 1186 01:06:21,410 --> 01:06:29,930 Case: And Brainiac was interpreting Superman's, like, better judgment as being, like, it shouldn't be fixed because it. 1187 01:06:29,930 --> 01:06:32,210 Case: It's strategically more useful not to be fixed. 1188 01:06:32,370 --> 01:06:37,890 Case: But you're saying that, like, maybe it was just like he, like, literally, like, never asked the question, period. 1189 01:06:38,290 --> 01:06:39,330 DJ Nik: I think that's what it is. 1190 01:06:39,330 --> 01:06:44,730 Case: Like, you never asked, which is, like, way more Superman, like, act like. 1191 01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:45,520 Case: Like it. 1192 01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:47,360 Case: Like it's not super. 1193 01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:50,160 Case: Like, basically, what that's saying is that, like, that. 1194 01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:56,040 Case: Oh, no, Brainiac was right in his interpretation of what Superman was thinking. 1195 01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:56,560 Case: And that. 1196 01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:59,640 Case: That is interesting because I actually hadn't interpreted it that way. 1197 01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:04,000 Case: I. I had taken it at least that Superman was betrayed by Brainiac in this situation. 1198 01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:05,760 Case: But, wow, that. 1199 01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:06,880 Case: You make a. 1200 01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:08,560 Case: A good case for that. 1201 01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:11,280 DJ Nik: It kind of makes me think of. 1202 01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:15,300 DJ Nik: To go down a tangent here there of that scene in the Muppet Christmas Carol. 1203 01:07:15,300 --> 01:07:15,580 DJ Nik: Yes. 1204 01:07:15,580 --> 01:07:25,860 DJ Nik: I'm bringing up My Christmas Carol where you've got Gonzo and Rizzo at one point, and they're trying to get into, you know, back into, I guess, to see what Scrooge is up to. 1205 01:07:26,100 --> 01:07:28,900 DJ Nik: And they're like, we have to climb over the fence. 1206 01:07:28,900 --> 01:07:31,300 DJ Nik: And we see Riz is like, oh, I forgot my jelly beans. 1207 01:07:31,300 --> 01:07:33,780 DJ Nik: And he goes through the bars and comes back. 1208 01:07:33,780 --> 01:07:34,140 Jmike: Yeah. 1209 01:07:34,140 --> 01:07:37,380 DJ Nik: And Gonzo's like, you could fit through those bars. 1210 01:07:37,620 --> 01:07:39,590 DJ Nik: And Bruce's like, yeah. 1211 01:07:39,910 --> 01:07:40,830 DJ Nik: It's like, almost that. 1212 01:07:40,830 --> 01:07:42,150 DJ Nik: You never asked me to do this. 1213 01:07:42,150 --> 01:07:44,110 DJ Nik: You know, it's like, rather than climbing up over the. 1214 01:07:44,110 --> 01:07:44,430 DJ Nik: Over the. 1215 01:07:44,430 --> 01:07:46,390 DJ Nik: Over the gates and going through. 1216 01:07:46,470 --> 01:07:48,310 DJ Nik: It's that kind of thing of, like, almost spraying eggs. 1217 01:07:48,310 --> 01:07:49,750 DJ Nik: Like, I could have done this the whole time. 1218 01:07:49,750 --> 01:07:51,190 DJ Nik: You just didn't ask the right question. 1219 01:07:51,910 --> 01:07:52,390 Case: Yeah. 1220 01:07:53,190 --> 01:07:53,910 Case: So either. 1221 01:07:53,990 --> 01:08:05,670 Case: Either way, Superman is complicit in some way of not restoring Stalingrad, be it for not asking sufficiently the right question or for just not asking the question because he was scared to ask the question. 1222 01:08:06,630 --> 01:08:08,150 Case: Either way sort of plays out. 1223 01:08:08,790 --> 01:08:14,310 Case: But this brings us to act three of the movie because now we're really talking about Brainiac as the central plot. 1224 01:08:14,390 --> 01:08:20,550 Case: So we get a much more fashy looking Superman and we get now a fully bald Lex Luthor who is now President of the United States. 1225 01:08:20,550 --> 01:08:21,750 Case: And acting on. 1226 01:08:22,229 --> 01:08:30,750 Case: What we kind of glossed over from the previous act was that there was a scene where there was a crashed spaceship that President Kennedy brought Lex Luthor to. 1227 01:08:31,460 --> 01:08:31,899 Case: We get the. 1228 01:08:31,899 --> 01:08:34,420 Case: The gnarly scene of him cutting off the finger to remove the. 1229 01:08:34,580 --> 01:08:35,540 Case: To remove the ring. 1230 01:08:36,819 --> 01:08:37,540 Case: I think it's the. 1231 01:08:38,260 --> 01:08:39,060 DJ Nik: Yes, it was. 1232 01:08:40,020 --> 01:08:42,660 Case: Gives it over to Hal Jordan in the comics. 1233 01:08:43,220 --> 01:08:43,740 Case: Sorry. 1234 01:08:43,740 --> 01:08:44,979 Case: Let me again, push my. 1235 01:08:44,979 --> 01:08:46,420 Case: Push up my glasses on this one. 1236 01:08:46,819 --> 01:09:05,840 Case: There's this whole sequence of how Hal Jordan was in a Viet Cong internment camp and, like, had, like, had such, like, amazing willpower that he, like, constructed, brick by brick, his own concentration camp and then, like, executed his, like, captors in this, like, whole scenario. 1237 01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:07,920 Case: And that's kind of fucked up. 1238 01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:08,640 Case: Like, it's. 1239 01:09:09,359 --> 01:09:12,680 Case: It's a interestingly written exercise in sort of like. 1240 01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:15,760 Case: Well, what does, like, what does Green Lantern willpower actually mean? 1241 01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:18,399 Case: It's probably good that it was removed. 1242 01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:22,399 Jmike: Yeah, Green Lantern willpower looks crazy to me. 1243 01:09:22,399 --> 01:09:22,680 Case: Yeah. 1244 01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:23,800 Case: Like, I don't think it would have. 1245 01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:25,040 DJ Nik: Gone over well had it been. 1246 01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:26,439 Case: No, it would not have. 1247 01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:27,200 Case: It does. 1248 01:09:27,279 --> 01:09:35,959 Case: Like, like I said, it's an interesting exercise in sort of like conceiving of, like, what the willpower of a Green Lantern is actually supposed to, like, mean. 1249 01:09:35,959 --> 01:09:36,999 Case: Like, oh, you don't go. 1250 01:09:36,999 --> 01:09:43,839 Case: You don't go crazy when you're in solitary confinement because you're able to envision, like, this perfect construction of a thing. 1251 01:09:43,999 --> 01:09:45,238 Case: But like I said, it's. 1252 01:09:45,238 --> 01:09:48,158 Case: While it's an interesting rendition, it's not. 1253 01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:50,399 Case: It's not something that, like, would go. 1254 01:09:51,759 --> 01:09:56,079 Case: Go over that well with what is supposed to be a more mass market material in the form of. 1255 01:09:56,230 --> 01:09:57,670 Case: Of the movie version of this. 1256 01:09:57,830 --> 01:10:01,030 Case: You also, like, it would be a really. 1257 01:10:01,590 --> 01:10:05,830 Case: It would be a really fucked up flashback sequence to include in a movie that doesn't really do flashbacks. 1258 01:10:06,710 --> 01:10:07,670 DJ Nik: Yeah, point. 1259 01:10:07,750 --> 01:10:10,030 Case: So that's the thing that we kind of gloss over there. 1260 01:10:10,030 --> 01:10:17,270 Case: But yeah, so we get the actual launching of an assault on Superman by way of the Green Lantern Corps. 1261 01:10:17,270 --> 01:10:23,030 Case: And this is an excuse, both in the comic and in the movie to make a lot of references to various Green Lanterns from Earth. 1262 01:10:23,270 --> 01:10:27,270 Jmike: Well, they switch it out because in the, in the movie it's Guy Gardner. 1263 01:10:27,830 --> 01:10:28,230 Jmike: It's. 1264 01:10:28,230 --> 01:10:30,630 Jmike: It's Jon Stewart, Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner. 1265 01:10:31,110 --> 01:10:35,190 Jmike: And then in the book, it's Kyle Rayner, Hal Jordan and Jon Stewart. 1266 01:10:35,990 --> 01:10:36,390 Case: Sure. 1267 01:10:37,590 --> 01:10:37,950 DJ Nik: Yeah. 1268 01:10:37,950 --> 01:10:46,390 Case: I mean, like, I, I, I wouldn't even like call like, I wouldn't even say one was missing because there's a big crowd and like, it's just like the ones that get called out are different. 1269 01:10:46,470 --> 01:10:49,190 Case: So like, clearly it's all it's supposed to be. 1270 01:10:49,190 --> 01:10:52,590 Case: Everyone you can think of that has been an Earthborn Green Lantern and then. 1271 01:10:52,590 --> 01:10:55,160 Jmike: Some, which is like an entire planet. 1272 01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:59,040 Jmike: Because I thought there was only supposed to be one lantern per quadrant. 1273 01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:00,400 Case: Right. 1274 01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:03,280 Jmike: And the earth has like 50. 1275 01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:06,800 DJ Nik: I guess nobody told the Owens, I suppose. 1276 01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:20,640 Case: I mean, that's part of the reason why they like modified it when they brought back the Green Lantern Corps after Kyle Rayner was the sole Green Lantern for a period of time where they brought it back to being at least two per and then like found other jobs for Kyle and Guy. 1277 01:11:24,670 --> 01:11:38,429 Case: But that still doesn't like get around the fact that like you also have Alan Scott actively around who's like, oh yeah, I'm coincidentally a Green Lantern by way of the Starheart, a thing that you just happen to be used in creating the Green Lantern corps in the first place. 1278 01:11:38,429 --> 01:11:54,100 Case: But surprisingly, because of reasons, but surprisingly broke off and traveled in originally to a different dimension, but now just to Earth and landed and was just coincidentally turned into a lantern that happens to be green. 1279 01:11:55,060 --> 01:11:59,020 Case: And I use it as a Green Lantern and gives me powers that are identical to the Green Lantern thing. 1280 01:11:59,020 --> 01:12:00,180 Case: But my weakness is wood. 1281 01:12:00,340 --> 01:12:03,060 Case: My weakness is wood, not the color yellow. 1282 01:12:03,060 --> 01:12:04,900 DJ Nik: I'm so glad they did away with that. 1283 01:12:04,900 --> 01:12:05,860 DJ Nik: That was terrible. 1284 01:12:07,780 --> 01:12:16,830 Case: I mean, wood at least like makes a little bit more sense to me because like, it gets into like the weird magic kind of shit or like his powers being kind of magnetic in origin. 1285 01:12:17,150 --> 01:12:18,990 Case: You can make some kind of argument for it. 1286 01:12:19,310 --> 01:12:21,310 Case: The yellow weakness never made sense to. 1287 01:12:21,310 --> 01:12:23,230 DJ Nik: Me because like even exactly the color. 1288 01:12:23,230 --> 01:12:32,150 Case: Yellow, it's like, okay, like, okay, sure, maybe something to do with like the color spectrum, like literally like it absorbing the frequency or some like that. 1289 01:12:32,150 --> 01:12:37,870 Case: But they would do things like there'd be like a school bus on a train track and it'd be like, I can't do anything. 1290 01:12:37,870 --> 01:12:38,670 Case: It's like, what do you mean? 1291 01:12:38,670 --> 01:12:46,120 Case: Just roll the tire years, sorry, Green Lantern diatribe on the, on this thing. 1292 01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:50,480 Case: Anyway, so the Green Lantern core in this movie is actually a bit more effective than they are in the comics. 1293 01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:53,640 Case: Like in the comics they basically get wiped out, like almost immediately. 1294 01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:59,240 Case: With Superman, like taking all their rings off their fingers and being like a thought based weapon against someone who can Move faster than thought. 1295 01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:00,440 Jmike: Like. 1296 01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:04,200 Case: And I think that the fight is better in. 1297 01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:04,600 Case: In this. 1298 01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:06,490 Case: Like, it's obviously like, actually the. 1299 01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:06,720 Case: They. 1300 01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:07,720 Case: They do some pretty good. 1301 01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:11,560 Case: And like, Superman probably could have broken his way out of the whole situation. 1302 01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:13,280 Case: It really comes down to a willpower thing. 1303 01:13:13,440 --> 01:13:15,080 Case: But it's interrupted by Wonder Woman. 1304 01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:21,000 Case: As opposed to the Amazons being just like another wing of Luthor's attack plan that is also easily dispatched. 1305 01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:29,760 Case: Which never made sense in the comics because, like, if Wonder Woman's supposed to be any kind of threat to Superman, then the movie takes the stance that Wonder Woman is stronger than Superman. 1306 01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:33,100 Case: The comics took the stance that Wonder Woman was significantly weaker than Superman. 1307 01:13:33,100 --> 01:13:33,460 Case: I'm just. 1308 01:13:33,460 --> 01:13:35,100 Case: That's basically what it comes down to. 1309 01:13:35,100 --> 01:13:38,500 DJ Nik: Because in the comics, Wonder Woman doesn't intervene in this moment to break up the fight. 1310 01:13:38,580 --> 01:13:40,300 Case: She doesn't come to intervene. 1311 01:13:40,300 --> 01:13:41,540 Case: She comes to assist. 1312 01:13:42,100 --> 01:13:42,740 DJ Nik: Okay. 1313 01:13:42,820 --> 01:13:43,820 Case: Like, she's on the side. 1314 01:13:43,820 --> 01:13:44,420 Case: Like, she. 1315 01:13:44,420 --> 01:13:47,780 Case: She and the Amazons have allied themselves with the USA in. 1316 01:13:47,780 --> 01:13:51,020 Case: In their battle strategy against Superman and. 1317 01:13:51,020 --> 01:13:54,420 DJ Nik: The ussr okay, so she's full on Team Luthor at that point. 1318 01:13:54,420 --> 01:13:54,900 Case: Yes. 1319 01:13:55,060 --> 01:13:55,540 Jmike: Yeah. 1320 01:13:55,780 --> 01:13:57,620 Case: So are a bunch of super villains, which they. 1321 01:13:57,620 --> 01:13:58,500 Case: They don't do here. 1322 01:13:59,140 --> 01:14:02,860 Jmike: Well, because, like, they don't mention the super villains in the movie at all. 1323 01:14:02,860 --> 01:14:03,460 Case: Right, yeah. 1324 01:14:03,460 --> 01:14:03,780 Case: Which. 1325 01:14:03,780 --> 01:14:04,580 Case: Which is fine. 1326 01:14:04,820 --> 01:14:05,340 Jmike: The book. 1327 01:14:05,340 --> 01:14:07,860 Case: The book, it was just an excuse to, like, include, like, characters from. 1328 01:14:07,860 --> 01:14:08,260 Jmike: Shit. 1329 01:14:08,900 --> 01:14:09,500 Jmike: Yeah, yeah. 1330 01:14:09,500 --> 01:14:10,980 Jmike: From the Superman Rogue galaxy. 1331 01:14:10,980 --> 01:14:11,660 Case: Right, yeah. 1332 01:14:11,660 --> 01:14:12,580 Case: And, like, people. 1333 01:14:13,940 --> 01:14:19,620 Case: There is a contingent out there who didn't care for Superman Red Son, because it doesn't play by the what if rules. 1334 01:14:19,940 --> 01:14:20,980 Case: And so it doesn't. 1335 01:14:21,140 --> 01:14:25,780 Case: So, like, it's like, oh, Lex Luthor invented all these super villains, which includes, like, Doomsday. 1336 01:14:27,060 --> 01:14:28,260 Jmike: Doomsday Parasite. 1337 01:14:28,260 --> 01:14:29,820 Jmike: Was it Metallo and some other. 1338 01:14:29,820 --> 01:14:34,340 Case: Yeah, I mean, like, it's the whole Norman Osborn, the amazing Spider Man 2 situation. 1339 01:14:35,140 --> 01:14:43,940 Case: But it's, you know, like, saying that Luthor invented all these characters which are traditionally not characters invented by him, rubbed some people the wrong way. 1340 01:14:44,020 --> 01:14:47,300 Case: And, like, I've always been of the stance of being like, it's just a fucking Easter egg. 1341 01:14:47,380 --> 01:14:50,180 Case: Like, it's just like. 1342 01:14:50,180 --> 01:14:55,860 Case: It's just for us to be like, oh, look at all the characters that we can put on the page that are from his own stellar base. 1343 01:14:55,860 --> 01:14:56,410 Case: Yeah, exactly. 1344 01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:57,200 Jmike: Yeah. 1345 01:14:57,520 --> 01:14:58,520 Case: And we don't get it here. 1346 01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:01,680 Case: And like, that's fine because, like, again, it is less. 1347 01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:03,760 Case: It's more straightforward this way. 1348 01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:04,960 Case: And it goes fine. 1349 01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:07,440 Case: We, in fact get a way more dramatic. 1350 01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:22,720 Case: Or rather, let me say this, Lois Lane has a flair for the dramatic way More so in this than she does in the comic because she walks out with this with the actual bottled city of Stalingrad, as opposed to just the letter that says, why don't you put the whole world in a bottle? 1351 01:15:23,410 --> 01:15:23,810 Case: Yeah. 1352 01:15:25,330 --> 01:15:28,210 Case: So that's kind of a fun bit right there. 1353 01:15:28,370 --> 01:15:31,170 Case: It's also gets fucked up and destroyed, which. 1354 01:15:31,650 --> 01:15:34,450 Case: Holy shit, that was a big moment. 1355 01:15:34,450 --> 01:15:35,210 DJ Nik: Like, what the hell? 1356 01:15:35,210 --> 01:15:36,610 DJ Nik: They actually went there. 1357 01:15:38,450 --> 01:15:39,250 Case: Like, that's. 1358 01:15:39,650 --> 01:15:40,530 Case: That's intense. 1359 01:15:41,170 --> 01:15:43,410 Jmike: Like, just trying to blast it. 1360 01:15:43,890 --> 01:15:44,850 Jmike: You're like, wait, what? 1361 01:15:45,010 --> 01:15:47,490 DJ Nik: You just destroyed a whole city just like that? 1362 01:15:47,650 --> 01:15:48,130 Case: Yeah. 1363 01:15:48,860 --> 01:15:49,140 Case: Yes. 1364 01:15:49,140 --> 01:15:51,900 Case: So we have a way higher body count. 1365 01:15:52,380 --> 01:15:52,740 DJ Nik: Yeah. 1366 01:15:52,740 --> 01:15:54,620 DJ Nik: Apparently six and a half million people. 1367 01:15:55,020 --> 01:15:55,500 Case: Yeah. 1368 01:15:55,740 --> 01:15:58,620 Case: Way a way higher body count in this movie. 1369 01:15:59,180 --> 01:16:00,300 Case: Kind of accidentally. 1370 01:16:00,300 --> 01:16:02,540 Case: Like, it certainly is a surprise. 1371 01:16:03,100 --> 01:16:03,460 Jmike: Yeah. 1372 01:16:03,460 --> 01:16:06,940 Jmike: Because, like, everyone's having, like, their eight, is this really worth it speech. 1373 01:16:07,020 --> 01:16:08,700 Jmike: Superman's like, I think we messed up. 1374 01:16:08,700 --> 01:16:09,380 Jmike: We should probably go home. 1375 01:16:09,380 --> 01:16:11,900 Jmike: And Brain X like, no, this is the best possible outcome. 1376 01:16:11,900 --> 01:16:15,300 Jmike: You know, all the calculations said, this is how it's supposed to be. 1377 01:16:15,300 --> 01:16:18,120 Jmike: And super like, nah, we done Goofs. 1378 01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:19,000 Jmike: Let's get out of here. 1379 01:16:19,480 --> 01:16:26,040 Jmike: And Brandon's like, nah, I'm gonna do my own thing and blast the blast all in Gratit Smithereens. 1380 01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:29,680 Jmike: I was like, then that's when the. 1381 01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:30,760 DJ Nik: Light bulb goes off of. 1382 01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:32,680 DJ Nik: You were cheating me the whole time. 1383 01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:34,760 DJ Nik: You never really converted, did you? 1384 01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:37,200 Jmike: Yeah, because, like, I didn't. 1385 01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:38,240 Jmike: I didn't pick up on it. 1386 01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:40,440 Jmike: Especially in the book that Luther and. 1387 01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:45,830 Jmike: And Brainiac were working on the same team scene until, like, much later. 1388 01:16:45,990 --> 01:16:54,990 Jmike: Yeah, because even at the end and in the comic, there's this huge confrontation with Luthor, and I want to see Clark, but it's not Clark, Luther and Superman. 1389 01:16:54,990 --> 01:17:02,870 Jmike: Before the fight starts, where Luthor just appears, his Fortress of Solitude, or wherever he's hiding with Brainiac. 1390 01:17:03,190 --> 01:17:09,070 Jmike: And Brainiac just straights up, like, takes him out and absorbs him, it looks like. 1391 01:17:09,070 --> 01:17:09,650 Jmike: Right, right. 1392 01:17:10,130 --> 01:17:11,970 Jmike: And then they play off, I think. 1393 01:17:11,970 --> 01:17:18,610 DJ Nik: You know, I. I haven't read it, but I think it works much better like this, rather than having Lex and Brainiacking, you know, in cahoots. 1394 01:17:19,090 --> 01:17:23,490 Case: Yeah, well, Lex and Brainiac aren't in cahoots at that point in the story. 1395 01:17:23,490 --> 01:17:23,770 Case: They. 1396 01:17:23,770 --> 01:17:24,530 Case: They were earlier. 1397 01:17:25,330 --> 01:17:26,490 Case: But when. 1398 01:17:26,490 --> 01:17:31,730 Case: When it happens, Brainiac has this whole spiel about how, like, I couldn't let him keep talking to you. 1399 01:17:31,730 --> 01:17:36,800 Case: By my calculations, if you keep, like, you're engaging with the 10th level intellect, like that would. 1400 01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:41,000 Case: He would have convinced you to commit suicide within 5.8 minutes or something like that. 1401 01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:55,960 Case: Some spiel like that, and that then plays out with, like, when Superman, like, comes to the realization, like, oh, wait, no, Brainiac's been the one manipulating me this whole time is part of his thought bubbles when he's going through the sequence of events. 1402 01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:57,360 Case: Lex is not actually dead. 1403 01:17:57,360 --> 01:18:01,000 Case: He's just snuck aboard Brainiac's ship, if I remember correctly. 1404 01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:01,660 Jmike: Yeah. 1405 01:18:03,010 --> 01:18:06,770 Jmike: And it's like reprogramming him the entire time. 1406 01:18:07,570 --> 01:18:07,970 Case: Yeah. 1407 01:18:07,970 --> 01:18:11,010 Jmike: But the, like, the movie does it much better because we get the Lex suit. 1408 01:18:11,090 --> 01:18:12,930 Jmike: Or a version of the Lex suit. 1409 01:18:14,290 --> 01:18:23,650 Case: Yeah, Lex comes off as a more active participant in this whole situation and a more like, more generically heroic participant, which is consistent with how this Lex is overall. 1410 01:18:24,530 --> 01:18:27,910 Case: And at no point did he, like, ally himself with an alien invader. 1411 01:18:28,620 --> 01:18:28,980 Case: Like, he. 1412 01:18:28,980 --> 01:18:31,460 Case: He keeps the moral high ground way more in this movie. 1413 01:18:31,460 --> 01:18:32,420 Case: Like, it's. 1414 01:18:32,420 --> 01:18:37,660 Case: It's absurd how, like, how good a guy Lex Luthor is in this movie. 1415 01:18:37,820 --> 01:18:40,500 DJ Nik: I think it's also because you want to make, you know, right. 1416 01:18:40,500 --> 01:18:42,460 DJ Nik: You know, Soviet Superman look even worse. 1417 01:18:42,460 --> 01:18:50,780 DJ Nik: Because if you're doing, like, more, you know, talking about propaganda here, if you're doing, like, more a pro American side of this, you're not going to want Lex to look too bad. 1418 01:18:51,500 --> 01:18:52,620 Case: Well, it's just like. 1419 01:18:52,620 --> 01:18:54,950 Case: Yes, yes. 1420 01:18:55,030 --> 01:19:01,830 Case: It, like, what's interesting is that, like I said, his relationship with Lois is so much better. 1421 01:19:01,830 --> 01:19:05,110 Case: So, like, when he retires from being president, it like. 1422 01:19:05,110 --> 01:19:09,470 Case: And he's like, I've got, like, the most important chapter of my life with. 1423 01:19:09,470 --> 01:19:10,550 Case: With this little lady. 1424 01:19:10,630 --> 01:19:13,350 DJ Nik: Like, you want to be. 1425 01:19:13,350 --> 01:19:16,270 DJ Nik: You want to have your audience cheer for him by the end of the movie. 1426 01:19:16,270 --> 01:19:18,390 DJ Nik: Yeah, that was not satisfying. 1427 01:19:18,390 --> 01:19:19,480 DJ Nik: You want to make him look good. 1428 01:19:20,030 --> 01:19:23,230 Case: It's just so interesting because, again, like, so the end of the comic. 1429 01:19:23,230 --> 01:19:33,630 Case: And like, I'm not saying that they could do the end of the comic here, but the end of the comic is that he leads the world into a utopia and, like, his effectively becomes, like, the thought leaders. 1430 01:19:33,630 --> 01:19:38,750 Case: His, like, his family line becomes the guiding, like, royal family of the world. 1431 01:19:39,310 --> 01:19:40,590 Case: Like, unto. 1432 01:19:40,910 --> 01:19:46,350 Case: Unto becoming the L family in the house of El in the Superman timeline kind of shit. 1433 01:19:46,430 --> 01:19:53,470 Case: So, like, it's just so bonkers to me that this is so different. 1434 01:19:53,710 --> 01:19:59,750 Case: But I understand that, like, if you didn't know that was, like, the way that the comic went, you'd be like, well, yeah, no, it makes sense. 1435 01:19:59,750 --> 01:20:04,470 Case: He's got, like, this awesome wife in the form of Lois Lane, and he's accomplished all the things he ever wants to accomplish. 1436 01:20:04,470 --> 01:20:05,310 Case: He can retire. 1437 01:20:06,270 --> 01:20:06,750 DJ Nik: Yeah. 1438 01:20:09,390 --> 01:20:14,270 Jmike: It's just so Weird that we're being kind to Lex Luthor. 1439 01:20:14,270 --> 01:20:15,990 DJ Nik: That's what I'm saying is because you have to make him. 1440 01:20:15,990 --> 01:20:17,170 DJ Nik: You have to make him look good in this. 1441 01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:17,480 Case: This. 1442 01:20:17,480 --> 01:20:18,080 DJ Nik: This thing. 1443 01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:19,240 DJ Nik: You can't make him look too villainous. 1444 01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:27,160 DJ Nik: I mean, we talked about earlier about the superior Superman, his fate, and then after that's kind of forgotten that he actually did some shady shit. 1445 01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:28,920 DJ Nik: You know, it's like, oh, he's a good dude. 1446 01:20:28,920 --> 01:20:30,120 DJ Nik: He loves his wife. 1447 01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:32,680 DJ Nik: He's helping the country and everything else. 1448 01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:40,200 Case: I. I have written fanfic where Lex Luthor was in the role of Iron man in like, a. 1449 01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:43,560 Case: A DC version of the Avengers situation and, like. 1450 01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:45,320 Case: And was like, just straight up a good guy. 1451 01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:45,760 Case: It. 1452 01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:46,920 Case: Like, I. I can. 1453 01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:47,560 Case: I can. 1454 01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:50,740 Case: General Lex Luthor not being a bad guy. 1455 01:20:52,180 --> 01:20:55,140 Jmike: Wasn't he kind of good in the new 52 run, I was gonna say. 1456 01:20:55,140 --> 01:20:57,820 DJ Nik: Because didn't he have, like, his own Superman suit and everything else? 1457 01:20:57,820 --> 01:20:59,900 Case: Yeah, no, he's had runs where he's been the good guy. 1458 01:20:59,900 --> 01:21:02,340 Case: And like, that's like, I. I can. 1459 01:21:02,340 --> 01:21:03,260 Case: I can deal with that. 1460 01:21:03,260 --> 01:21:03,500 Case: He's. 1461 01:21:03,500 --> 01:21:06,380 Case: He's recently had, like, a big run where he was like, a good guy. 1462 01:21:06,380 --> 01:21:07,220 Case: Now, part of that was with. 1463 01:21:07,220 --> 01:21:08,180 Case: With memory loss. 1464 01:21:08,260 --> 01:21:11,380 Case: But, like, that was still I. 1465 01:21:11,540 --> 01:21:13,700 Case: A run that I could appreciate and work with. 1466 01:21:13,940 --> 01:21:18,860 Case: I'm just saying that in this story, considering that he already was, like, painted as something of a monster for creating. 1467 01:21:18,930 --> 01:21:19,530 Case: Being the. 1468 01:21:19,530 --> 01:21:20,690 Case: The superior man. 1469 01:21:21,090 --> 01:21:21,610 Case: Like, he. 1470 01:21:21,610 --> 01:21:26,490 Case: It's just surprising that, like, how good he ultimately, like, he. 1471 01:21:26,490 --> 01:21:26,930 DJ Nik: He's. 1472 01:21:27,010 --> 01:21:27,970 Case: He's a net good. 1473 01:21:27,970 --> 01:21:29,250 Case: Like, he's a net positive. 1474 01:21:32,370 --> 01:21:33,090 Case: And there's no. 1475 01:21:33,250 --> 01:21:37,650 Jmike: I feel like we just do this because it's Lex and like, yeah, history. 1476 01:21:40,610 --> 01:21:41,730 Jmike: It just feels weird. 1477 01:21:42,850 --> 01:21:50,780 DJ Nik: And in the comics, when you get that moment where apparently Superman has survived, that, I guess is not in the comics at all where Lewis sees Superman. 1478 01:21:50,780 --> 01:21:53,300 DJ Nik: The crowd as Clark, you know, dress up as a. 1479 01:21:53,300 --> 01:21:57,660 DJ Nik: You know, in his clock gear, you know, with the fedora and everything else in the. 1480 01:21:57,660 --> 01:21:58,940 DJ Nik: You don't get that in the comics, right? 1481 01:21:58,940 --> 01:21:59,260 DJ Nik: You don't. 1482 01:21:59,260 --> 01:21:59,660 DJ Nik: We don't. 1483 01:22:00,300 --> 01:22:01,220 Case: There is a scene like that. 1484 01:22:01,220 --> 01:22:02,460 Jmike: Yeah, you do. 1485 01:22:02,460 --> 01:22:06,140 Jmike: But like here in the movie, it happens at his Lexus. 1486 01:22:06,140 --> 01:22:09,420 Jmike: Like, he's retiring from presidency. 1487 01:22:09,900 --> 01:22:10,940 Jmike: He's like, I'm done with here. 1488 01:22:10,940 --> 01:22:11,420 Jmike: I'm out. 1489 01:22:11,740 --> 01:22:12,700 Jmike: I've done my thing. 1490 01:22:12,700 --> 01:22:14,630 Jmike: But in the comic, it happens like. 1491 01:22:14,780 --> 01:22:16,260 Jmike: Like, oh, how many. 1492 01:22:16,260 --> 01:22:18,140 Case: How many years Funeral or something like that. 1493 01:22:18,140 --> 01:22:18,460 Case: Like. 1494 01:22:18,540 --> 01:22:19,100 Jmike: Because how. 1495 01:22:19,100 --> 01:22:20,620 Jmike: I forget how long Lex actually lives. 1496 01:22:20,620 --> 01:22:22,140 Case: Lex lives like, hundreds of years. 1497 01:22:22,140 --> 01:22:22,860 Case: Like, they. 1498 01:22:22,860 --> 01:22:26,220 Jmike: Because, like, he cures everything yeah, like when. 1499 01:22:27,020 --> 01:22:35,820 Case: When Brainiac says in his, like, readout of, like, life expectancy is now up to 97 years and greater improvements are expected over, like, the next couple of decades. 1500 01:22:35,900 --> 01:22:36,900 Case: Like, that's. 1501 01:22:36,900 --> 01:22:37,780 Case: That's a nod to. 1502 01:22:37,780 --> 01:22:38,580 Case: In the comics. 1503 01:22:38,580 --> 01:22:51,470 Case: They start setting up this idea that Superman's going to live forever because he's, like, eugenically fit, which is also a thing that's probably good to not, like, overdo in modern media, like Cindy Sweeney Good jeans and all that, whatever. 1504 01:22:51,470 --> 01:22:52,710 DJ Nik: You know, you read my mind. 1505 01:22:52,710 --> 01:22:54,510 DJ Nik: Like, Superman has good genes. 1506 01:22:57,550 --> 01:22:58,149 Jmike: He, like. 1507 01:22:58,149 --> 01:23:09,480 Jmike: Because, like, it happens at the funeral, and then her son is talking to her and she kind of, like, glances off and she sees Superman with the fedora and everything, and she's like, oh, wait, I think I saw somebody. 1508 01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:11,000 Jmike: Maybe I didn't. 1509 01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:12,760 Case: Yeah, yeah. 1510 01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:14,160 Case: Plays out at about the same. 1511 01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:17,480 Case: Which is why it makes sense to do that as sort of your finale for it all. 1512 01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:18,040 Jmike: Yeah. 1513 01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:23,480 Case: Like I said, it's just interesting that this Lex ends up being, like, a good guy and. 1514 01:23:23,480 --> 01:23:24,360 Case: And it's fine. 1515 01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:25,480 Case: Like, he. 1516 01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:29,360 Case: Like, maybe it's weird that the comic. 1517 01:23:29,360 --> 01:23:32,640 Case: That he was such, like, an absurdly bad guy despite being in. 1518 01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:33,740 Case: In a situation of, like. 1519 01:23:33,890 --> 01:23:38,290 Case: Like, not needing to be a bad guy for any particular reason because everyone was on his side. 1520 01:23:39,010 --> 01:23:39,730 Case: I don't know. 1521 01:23:40,770 --> 01:23:51,410 Case: Like, maybe this is me just, like, being too invested in the comic, which I acknowledge had a lot of edgelord tendencies to it and having a hard time giving up on that. 1522 01:23:51,890 --> 01:23:54,050 Jmike: It's years of Lex trauma case. 1523 01:23:54,210 --> 01:23:56,290 Jmike: All these years of trauma from Lex Luthor. 1524 01:23:56,290 --> 01:23:56,690 Case: Yes. 1525 01:23:56,850 --> 01:23:59,370 Jmike: In all forms of media, I guess. 1526 01:23:59,370 --> 01:24:01,930 DJ Nik: Like, we saw Joker helping old ladies cross the street. 1527 01:24:01,930 --> 01:24:02,890 DJ Nik: People would have a. 1528 01:24:02,890 --> 01:24:03,890 DJ Nik: Would have a fit, I guess. 1529 01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:05,600 Case: Something like that. 1530 01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:06,040 Case: Yeah. 1531 01:24:06,680 --> 01:24:08,920 Case: All right, let's pivot around to Superman. 1532 01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:23,560 Case: One thing that I have always liked about this work is that Superman is Superman, regardless of the side of the aisle that he is on, that he is doing good actively as far as he understands at any given point. 1533 01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:28,280 Case: I find that he is less good in the movie than he is in the comic. 1534 01:24:28,280 --> 01:24:32,030 Case: Or at least the slippery slope comes off as slipperier. 1535 01:24:32,590 --> 01:24:33,790 Case: And that kind of bums me out. 1536 01:24:33,790 --> 01:24:41,390 Case: But I do still think that we capture a pretty good Superman here, especially at the beginning of the story where he is supposed to be as idealistic as possible. 1537 01:24:41,870 --> 01:24:45,070 Case: You know, pre Stalin, Pre murdering Stalin. 1538 01:24:46,589 --> 01:24:47,950 Case: But, like, what do you guys think? 1539 01:24:47,950 --> 01:24:48,270 Case: Like. 1540 01:24:48,350 --> 01:24:49,310 Case: Like, how does this. 1541 01:24:49,310 --> 01:24:54,270 Case: How does this work as far as an interpretation of Superman to you guys and J. Mike, we'll start with you. 1542 01:24:54,990 --> 01:24:56,420 Jmike: I think we said, like, no matter. 1543 01:24:57,290 --> 01:25:17,370 Jmike: I feel like we've talked about this in the comic stuff before, but it's always fun to see that, like, no matter which run he's in or which stories in or which continuity he's in or anything like that, the core mythos of Superman will always be the same. 1544 01:25:17,930 --> 01:25:22,210 Jmike: He's always gonna have something going on with Lois Lane, even though he kind of did in this. 1545 01:25:22,210 --> 01:25:23,890 Jmike: In this run and kind of did shouldn't. 1546 01:25:24,290 --> 01:25:28,210 Jmike: But he mentioned it could happen in some form way of whatever. 1547 01:25:29,170 --> 01:25:29,770 Jmike: But his. 1548 01:25:29,770 --> 01:25:34,050 Jmike: His core principles are always going to be there, no matter what. 1549 01:25:34,050 --> 01:25:35,210 Jmike: That's kind of cool to see. 1550 01:25:35,210 --> 01:25:37,570 Jmike: Like, in every situation, it's always going to be Superman. 1551 01:25:37,970 --> 01:25:38,450 Case: Cool. 1552 01:25:38,610 --> 01:25:39,809 Case: Nick, how about you? 1553 01:25:39,970 --> 01:25:41,010 DJ Nik: I. I definitely agree. 1554 01:25:41,010 --> 01:25:51,650 DJ Nik: I mean, I think by and large, even though, you know, they make him a little bit more flawed, at least in this movie, by and large, I think he does retain the core values that we know and love about Superman. 1555 01:25:51,720 --> 01:25:51,960 DJ Nik: Man. 1556 01:25:51,960 --> 01:26:02,560 DJ Nik: I mean, like you were pointing out case, you know, wherever he might have been born or wherever his spaceship might have ended up, it shows you that inevitably he's always going to have those ethics and those values. 1557 01:26:02,560 --> 01:26:07,680 DJ Nik: Granted here, as I said, I think it was more misguided and just being, you know, so idealistic. 1558 01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:09,560 DJ Nik: So you are more prone to manipulation. 1559 01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:11,640 DJ Nik: But by and large, I appreciate this. 1560 01:26:11,640 --> 01:26:17,880 DJ Nik: Also, I will say I like my characters flawed to where nobody is pitch perfect. 1561 01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:22,320 DJ Nik: And so I like that about him because, you know, obviously he was going about things the wrong way. 1562 01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:27,920 DJ Nik: And as they say, you know what they say about good intentions, you know, the road to good intentions, if you will so. 1563 01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:29,120 DJ Nik: Or the road to hell in that case. 1564 01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:32,600 DJ Nik: So I think that was very much the case with him, is that he wasn't trying to be. 1565 01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:34,560 DJ Nik: There was never a bad bone in his body. 1566 01:26:34,800 --> 01:26:37,160 DJ Nik: He just thought this was the right way to go about it. 1567 01:26:37,160 --> 01:26:39,760 DJ Nik: I don't think there's ever any malignancy in his intent. 1568 01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:41,080 DJ Nik: So I really appreciate that. 1569 01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:41,400 DJ Nik: And I. 1570 01:26:41,400 --> 01:26:42,560 DJ Nik: And I thoroughly enjoyed this movie. 1571 01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:46,650 DJ Nik: As I said, this was the first time I sat down to watch it, and I think it's definitely a. 1572 01:26:46,890 --> 01:26:51,770 DJ Nik: A great version, a great iteration of Superman, you know, compared to what we have seen on other. 1573 01:26:51,770 --> 01:26:54,410 DJ Nik: In other versions on screens both big and small. 1574 01:26:55,370 --> 01:27:00,010 Case: Yeah, like, I keep coming away from this being, like, pretty positive about the. 1575 01:27:00,170 --> 01:27:01,410 Case: The interpretation of Superman. 1576 01:27:01,410 --> 01:27:04,970 Case: And like I said, it's a very fine line between this and evil Superman. 1577 01:27:05,050 --> 01:27:11,930 Case: And I think this retains, like, the more nuanced, like, culturally sensitive kind of take on a character. 1578 01:27:12,910 --> 01:27:20,710 Case: Like, I think that, as you pointed out, this movie is fairly rah America at some points in a way that the comic isn't. 1579 01:27:20,710 --> 01:27:31,070 Case: And I do kind of miss that aspect of it, the sort of the more neutral body in terms of view on world history as opposed to like, an obviously biased source. 1580 01:27:31,230 --> 01:27:32,270 Case: But it's fine. 1581 01:27:33,150 --> 01:27:35,070 Case: Like, you know, it's. 1582 01:27:35,070 --> 01:27:36,190 Case: It's still it. 1583 01:27:36,190 --> 01:27:38,110 Case: Like, the story goes the same way. 1584 01:27:38,110 --> 01:27:47,780 Case: You know, like Superman, like, leads Russia into like, what looks like a golden age and then takes a step back and the US like, fills the void it is played as in both scenarios. 1585 01:27:48,740 --> 01:27:50,100 Case: Works out pretty well for everyone. 1586 01:27:50,100 --> 01:27:50,980 Case: So it's fine. 1587 01:27:51,220 --> 01:27:54,580 Case: And I think in both works still emphasizes that. 1588 01:27:54,580 --> 01:28:01,060 Case: Like, it still is basically just like, well, which economy was doing better at the given time that they tried this? 1589 01:28:01,220 --> 01:28:06,900 Case: You know, like, it could have gone the other way very easily if, you know, X, Y or Z thing was going on. 1590 01:28:07,430 --> 01:28:07,670 Case: And. 1591 01:28:08,150 --> 01:28:15,710 Case: And like, a lot of that is simply, like, access to certain, like, technologies and certain progressions of things. 1592 01:28:15,710 --> 01:28:16,070 Case: Like. 1593 01:28:16,790 --> 01:28:17,750 Case: So, yeah, it could. 1594 01:28:17,750 --> 01:28:21,270 Case: It could have gone a different way, but, like, the US Was in control of like, what. 1595 01:28:21,270 --> 01:28:21,870 Case: What was it like? 1596 01:28:21,870 --> 01:28:24,630 Case: The US itself was in control of over 50% of the. 1597 01:28:24,630 --> 01:28:26,910 Case: Of the world's wealth in the wake of World War II. 1598 01:28:26,910 --> 01:28:28,550 DJ Nik: Like, pretty much, yeah. 1599 01:28:28,550 --> 01:28:30,870 Case: Like, you know, the US was like, pretty. 1600 01:28:30,950 --> 01:28:32,950 Case: Pretty well set up to win post World War II. 1601 01:28:33,510 --> 01:28:37,110 Case: And, you know, if you tip the scale in the different direction, then it could have gone the other way. 1602 01:28:37,190 --> 01:28:38,710 Case: And that's what this is sort of argu. 1603 01:28:39,090 --> 01:28:43,370 Case: Existence of a Superman would have tipped the scale sufficiently that it would have gone that. 1604 01:28:43,370 --> 01:28:44,130 Case: That direction. 1605 01:28:44,370 --> 01:28:54,730 Case: But I don't think it really, like, while it's a little bit like, yeah, democracy, blah, blah, like, there's plenty of gray area when it comes to the United States stuff. 1606 01:28:54,730 --> 01:29:02,930 Case: Like, we know that, like, the Lois Lane scene is, like, colored by the fact that she is a biased source that knows specifically about the satellite situation. 1607 01:29:03,330 --> 01:29:13,830 Case: So, like, even the things that are supposed to call into question, like, some of those scenes that, like, come off as more like America, rah, like, they've got shades of gray going on behind them, like, additionally. 1608 01:29:13,830 --> 01:29:27,070 Case: So I find this a pretty effective Superman that I think rises above the potential dangers of having this Soviet setting and I think works really well in that regard. 1609 01:29:28,190 --> 01:29:37,150 DJ Nik: Also, if I may add, this also does remind me, you know, granted this was before that, but it reminds me of the recent Superman movie where we have him intervening in a war. 1610 01:29:37,300 --> 01:29:37,540 Case: War. 1611 01:29:37,860 --> 01:29:48,980 DJ Nik: And here we have the same thing when it comes to Korea where he believes in Kind of stopping it the way he does take actively taking a, a stance when it comes to north and south, the Korean War. 1612 01:29:49,220 --> 01:29:58,180 DJ Nik: And of course, in the recent James Gunn Superman, you had a similar thing when it came to, you know, intervening in a, a conflict between two fictional countries. 1613 01:29:58,740 --> 01:30:11,690 DJ Nik: But it was rather reminiscent of that because I think it kind of shows you once again where Superman's morality is, even though it might not be the right thing to do, to actively take part because you are a superpowered being. 1614 01:30:12,170 --> 01:30:21,210 DJ Nik: But it almost raises that same question where he, the way he intervenes in Korea is very similar, I think, in the way he intervenes in the James Gunn movie from this year. 1615 01:30:21,610 --> 01:30:30,580 Case: Well, yeah, I think that one of the key differences of this Superman versus the Superman that we're normally given to is that he actually is a, a tool of the state. 1616 01:30:31,060 --> 01:30:36,540 Case: Like he fully submits to the state from the get go in a way that Superman traditionally isn't. 1617 01:30:36,540 --> 01:30:42,100 Case: And so like that's, and part of that is set up here with like, Svetlana and all that. 1618 01:30:42,100 --> 01:30:57,240 Case: But like, this is a Superman who is, the argument is coming from an ideology that says that he should become more part of the collective and like, submit himself to everything as opposed to being this individualistic kind of actor. 1619 01:30:59,080 --> 01:31:04,480 Case: Like, Superman could have also become like a tool of the state in the United States just as well. 1620 01:31:04,480 --> 01:31:09,240 Case: Like, he could have been brought up by people who were much more like, rah the military. 1621 01:31:09,400 --> 01:31:13,720 Case: Like, go submit yourself to being part of the United States. 1622 01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:19,800 Case: And you could have seen a lot of this play out the same way if he was just being a tool of the United States. 1623 01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:23,480 Case: You know, kind of like how Dr. Manhattan is in Watchmen. 1624 01:31:24,850 --> 01:31:35,170 Case: Like, you could see a lot of that kind of go kind of in those directions, but I think that they're doing just, you know, a little bit more interesting by having it be a different state than the usa. 1625 01:31:35,490 --> 01:31:39,490 Case: Yeah, but yeah, I, like I said, I, I come away from this, like, very positive. 1626 01:31:39,490 --> 01:31:41,130 Case: I, I, I rather enjoyed it. 1627 01:31:41,130 --> 01:31:45,410 Case: I'm really glad to have the excuse to look at the comics again and to rewatch this movie. 1628 01:31:45,890 --> 01:31:52,140 Case: So, so, Nick, do, Is there anything that we have not addressed about this movie that you wanted to like, get off your chest? 1629 01:31:53,010 --> 01:31:54,530 DJ Nik: No, I think we pretty much covered everything. 1630 01:31:54,530 --> 01:32:02,610 DJ Nik: I mean, as I said before, I think I was so glad I got to discuss this with you guys because after having watched, I'm like, I am so ready to talk about this with someone. 1631 01:32:02,770 --> 01:32:06,690 DJ Nik: And I'm so glad that someone, it was the two of you? 1632 01:32:06,770 --> 01:32:08,530 DJ Nik: No, but I, I really enjoyed it. 1633 01:32:08,530 --> 01:32:13,810 DJ Nik: As I said, aside from, as I mentioned before, the more feminist approach that this movie takes. 1634 01:32:13,810 --> 01:32:17,650 DJ Nik: And as I said, I've got nothing wrong with that because I am, I'm a proud feminist myself. 1635 01:32:17,980 --> 01:32:21,660 DJ Nik: But it did seem like they were hitting that over that, over the head just a little bit. 1636 01:32:21,820 --> 01:32:26,700 DJ Nik: But other than that, I'm glad I watched and like I said, I'm glad I got to shoot the breeze with the two of you. 1637 01:32:26,700 --> 01:32:28,300 DJ Nik: It was great excuse to talk to you guys again. 1638 01:32:28,460 --> 01:32:30,300 Case: Yeah, it was a blast. 1639 01:32:31,660 --> 01:32:32,740 Case: Just a final question. 1640 01:32:32,740 --> 01:32:35,180 Case: Would you recommend this to non Superman fans? 1641 01:32:35,740 --> 01:32:37,140 DJ Nik: I think I certainly would. 1642 01:32:37,140 --> 01:32:38,220 DJ Nik: I definitely think I would. 1643 01:32:38,220 --> 01:32:42,340 DJ Nik: I might actually, you know, when she's a little bit older, I actually might show this to my niece. 1644 01:32:42,340 --> 01:32:46,110 DJ Nik: I mean at this point she's four years old, so she probably wouldn't understand what the heck is going on. 1645 01:32:46,190 --> 01:32:51,830 DJ Nik: So maybe like 10 years or so, I might sit down and say, okay, check this out. 1646 01:32:51,830 --> 01:32:58,190 DJ Nik: This is what your uncle enjoys, you know, so I'm already trying to get her into the whole nerdy stuff. 1647 01:32:58,190 --> 01:33:02,150 DJ Nik: I constantly gift her like Spider man figurines and this kind of thing now. 1648 01:33:02,150 --> 01:33:06,350 DJ Nik: And she actually does the Spider man thing with her fingers when she sees me, which is fantastic. 1649 01:33:06,830 --> 01:33:10,190 DJ Nik: Four year old, mind you, doing this, which is brilliant. 1650 01:33:10,270 --> 01:33:13,600 DJ Nik: Yeah, that's what she does every time she goes and like, that's fantastic. 1651 01:33:13,600 --> 01:33:16,600 DJ Nik: I'm like, I'm doing my job as a nerdy uncle. 1652 01:33:19,000 --> 01:33:19,640 Case: Excellent. 1653 01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:22,040 Case: Jmaic, would you recommend this to non Superman fans? 1654 01:33:22,440 --> 01:33:23,480 Jmike: I do all the time. 1655 01:33:23,640 --> 01:33:24,600 Case: Oh, excellent. 1656 01:33:25,800 --> 01:33:33,080 Jmike: It's one of those movies right up there with actually, believe it or not, the nail came up like last week in a conversation with some of my friends at work. 1657 01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:34,120 Case: Okay, nice. 1658 01:33:34,440 --> 01:33:37,640 Jmike: And along with Superman versus the Elite. 1659 01:33:37,640 --> 01:33:38,930 Jmike: Always recommend that one. 1660 01:33:39,650 --> 01:33:41,970 Jmike: So this is pretty high up on my list. 1661 01:33:42,050 --> 01:33:51,970 Jmike: It's so much of a unique story that I'm like, if you want to see more things about Superman and different stories and different ways people have tried to like have written him before, you could try this one out. 1662 01:33:52,530 --> 01:33:53,730 Jmike: Give you something thinking about. 1663 01:33:54,130 --> 01:33:54,530 Case: Yeah. 1664 01:33:54,530 --> 01:34:04,450 Case: For a long time the comic was a regular staple in my like rotation of like loan out to people to be like, oh, if you're not really into like superheroes or Superman specifically, this is one that might change your mind. 1665 01:34:04,770 --> 01:34:15,650 Case: This and Superman's Secret Identity were like my top two to like loan to people to be like, no, check out Superman and like A Different Light kind of books and which is why I think I don't, I can't find my copy of this. 1666 01:34:15,650 --> 01:34:21,810 Case: So I think like, I had to read it on the app and I think it's because I probably loaned it out to someone and never got it back. 1667 01:34:22,370 --> 01:34:31,330 Case: But I know I've purchased this like more than a handful of times for people as gifts just to be like, yes, here, like, appreciate Superman Red Son. 1668 01:34:32,050 --> 01:34:34,610 Case: And I would say that the movie does a pretty good job too. 1669 01:34:34,690 --> 01:34:51,390 Case: Like, I think that if you want honest, if someone's like, oh, I don't get Superman, and you're like, if you can deal with him in a different context, this is a really good interpretation of the character with a different set of challenges put in front of him by virtue of like being an active political player. 1670 01:34:52,030 --> 01:34:54,270 Case: And, and I think it works really well. 1671 01:34:54,750 --> 01:35:03,730 Case: So I'm really glad that we had the chance to talk about this, but I'm also really glad that Nick, that you get a chance to plug your stuff, like talk about your things. 1672 01:35:03,810 --> 01:35:06,930 Case: Where can people find you, follow you, and what have you got going on? 1673 01:35:07,330 --> 01:35:09,090 DJ Nik: Okay, so deep cleansing breath. 1674 01:35:09,250 --> 01:35:17,250 DJ Nik: So when it comes to me, you can find me at my day job hosting the radio show Whiskey and Cigarettes where we play the very best and nothing but the best of country music for you guys. 1675 01:35:17,330 --> 01:35:22,130 DJ Nik: And of course, for more information about that comes our website, which is whiskey and cigarettes show.com. 1676 01:35:22,450 --> 01:35:30,960 DJ Nik: when it comes to the podcasting side of things, as Case kindly mentioned earlier, you can find myself and Keith Bliss on Happiness and Wildness, the Superhero Movie podcast. 1677 01:35:30,960 --> 01:35:33,920 DJ Nik: We discuss any and every superhero movie under the sun. 1678 01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:45,679 DJ Nik: And of course, last but say not least, myself, Zan Sprouse and Rachel Friend can be found also on Gold Standard, the Oscars podcast where we have reviewed all the best picture winning movies in chronological order. 1679 01:35:45,679 --> 01:35:47,720 DJ Nik: And we're now reviewing movies that we have picked. 1680 01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:52,400 DJ Nik: And we also have new returning guest co hosts bringing their favorite films to the Gold Standard Theater. 1681 01:35:52,400 --> 01:36:00,910 DJ Nik: Case in Pointer Case actually joined us not that long ago and brought one of his movies, Everybody Wants Some, which none of us had actually seen. 1682 01:36:01,070 --> 01:36:05,230 DJ Nik: So we're really glad to have that opportunity to talk about a movie that was near and dear to uk. 1683 01:36:05,390 --> 01:36:07,150 DJ Nik: So hopefully we'll get to do that again. 1684 01:36:08,030 --> 01:36:08,590 DJ Nik: Finally. 1685 01:36:08,590 --> 01:36:13,950 DJ Nik: Myself and Charles Skaggs can be found on the Fandom Zone podcast where I talked about Neil Gaiman earlier. 1686 01:36:13,950 --> 01:36:18,350 DJ Nik: We're currently reviewing the second and I I'm thinking final season of course of the Sandman. 1687 01:36:18,430 --> 01:36:19,790 DJ Nik: So that's what I've got going on. 1688 01:36:21,160 --> 01:36:21,640 Case: Awesome. 1689 01:36:21,800 --> 01:36:24,280 Case: Everyone should definitely check out all the stuff you've got going on. 1690 01:36:24,280 --> 01:36:26,600 Case: It's such a wonder how prolific you are. 1691 01:36:29,640 --> 01:36:31,000 DJ Nik: I have no social life. 1692 01:36:34,360 --> 01:36:36,320 Case: You've got podcasting that replaces the social life. 1693 01:36:36,320 --> 01:36:38,120 Case: We all found that out during the pandemic. 1694 01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:39,480 DJ Nik: Amen. 1695 01:36:41,080 --> 01:36:43,320 Case: On that note, J Mike, where can people find you, follow you? 1696 01:36:43,320 --> 01:36:44,440 Case: What have you got going on? 1697 01:36:44,600 --> 01:36:45,320 Jmike: Oh my gosh. 1698 01:36:45,320 --> 01:37:02,000 Jmike: I have not nearly as much stuff going on as Nick does, but if you want to talk I on the blue ski at J5 Bluesky Social, I am occasionally on that other app, J5 on Twitter, and I think that's about it. 1699 01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:12,640 Jmike: Besides Discord Case, which I'm trying very hard to be on occasionally, I'm making much more of an effort, I promise. 1700 01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:17,770 Case: Yes, no, you're doing a great job and the Discord is a great place to find J Mike and to find me. 1701 01:37:17,770 --> 01:37:24,530 Case: You can find a link to our Discord server on our homepage for certain pov.com so check that out there. 1702 01:37:24,530 --> 01:37:27,370 Case: Or you can find I post links to it regularly. 1703 01:37:27,770 --> 01:37:32,450 Case: If you didn't see one, just let me know and I'll send you a link to the Discord and you can come join it. 1704 01:37:32,450 --> 01:37:37,850 Case: But like I said, there's one if you just go to certainpov.com, it's at the bottom of the page there. 1705 01:37:38,330 --> 01:37:39,850 Case: But yeah, it's a great Discord. 1706 01:37:39,850 --> 01:37:54,580 Case: It's a great place to come hang out, do a great job of trying to be inclusive and have really fun conversations without it being necessarily so overwhelming as some Discord servers I've been on where it's just impossible to keep track of any conversation because they move so fast. 1707 01:37:54,980 --> 01:38:00,500 Case: So I think a good rhythm, it's not too slow, not too fast, it's just right. 1708 01:38:00,980 --> 01:38:07,530 Case: But another thing you can do to support the show in addition to coming and joining us on the Discord server is, well, sorry, I guess. 1709 01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:09,600 Case: Guess I should finish where you can find me and follow me. 1710 01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:30,000 Case: You can find me at Case Aiken on most of the platforms, including the blueski except for Instagram, where I'm holding on to my AIM screen name from high school for dear life, and that is quetzalcoatl5q u e t Z A L C o A T L 5 I'm sorry I was pretentious in high school, but I'm not going to give it up. 1711 01:38:30,080 --> 01:38:34,560 Case: I'm still hanging onto the screen name for this and for my twitch like that. 1712 01:38:37,150 --> 01:38:43,710 Case: But anyway, what I was getting at before though, is that you can come and support the show on Patreon we would really love actually more support on Patreon. 1713 01:38:43,870 --> 01:38:57,270 Case: If you look up patreon.com certainpovmedia that supports this show as well as Another Pass and all the videos that we're doing on YouTube, but it is specifically for the productions of certain POV, so please check that out. 1714 01:38:57,270 --> 01:39:04,670 Case: It would mean a ton to us to actively support the show, but even if you subscribe at the free tier, we would still meet. 1715 01:39:04,670 --> 01:39:07,150 Case: That still means a lot to us and you would still get a lot out of it. 1716 01:39:07,690 --> 01:39:10,770 Case: Actively doing two columns a week that are available at the free tier. 1717 01:39:10,770 --> 01:39:16,890 Case: One is just my general thoughts about nerd spaces and the other is me talking about homebrew D and D stuff that I've worked on. 1718 01:39:16,970 --> 01:39:20,650 Case: Yeah, like those are fun places to check that out. 1719 01:39:20,650 --> 01:39:30,250 Case: But by the time that this episode comes out, we're going to be doing regular uploads for upcoming new episodes of all of our things and we're going to be doing more and more additional content for our patrons. 1720 01:39:30,250 --> 01:39:34,010 Case: So check out the Patreon because there's a lot of good stuff coming for that. 1721 01:39:34,610 --> 01:39:36,610 Case: And on that note, we need to thank some people. 1722 01:39:36,610 --> 01:39:51,650 Case: So I need to thank the patrons that joined at the executive producer level, and that is Micah McCaw, Carter Hallett, Sean Muir, Lee Greger, Memento Young, Logan Crowley, Joe Mastropiero, Casey and Nancy Aiken, Adam Sampter and Keith Lettinen. 1723 01:39:51,730 --> 01:39:55,410 Case: And those are the people who are wonderful and joined us for. 1724 01:39:56,530 --> 01:40:02,930 Case: Yeah, joined us on the Patreon and are helping keep the lights on, which is a really cool state to be in. 1725 01:40:02,930 --> 01:40:05,500 Case: We have been an independent operation for so long that it is. 1726 01:40:05,970 --> 01:40:11,410 Case: It is kind of nice to be like, oh, yeah, how do I distribute the checks between me, J, Mike and Sam? 1727 01:40:11,730 --> 01:40:12,690 Case: That was pretty cool. 1728 01:40:14,210 --> 01:40:14,690 Case: Yeah. 1729 01:40:14,690 --> 01:40:16,210 Case: So please check that out. 1730 01:40:16,530 --> 01:40:17,730 Case: Thank you for listening. 1731 01:40:17,730 --> 01:40:26,610 Case: We did tease what our next episode is going to be on this one, which is that we are actually going to be talking to JMD Matthias, I believe, two weeks from the time of this recording. 1732 01:40:26,690 --> 01:40:28,210 Case: And that is really exciting. 1733 01:40:28,450 --> 01:40:33,990 Case: He is a legend in the comic book and otherwise media nerd space. 1734 01:40:34,230 --> 01:40:35,830 Case: And I'm super excited about that. 1735 01:40:35,910 --> 01:40:38,230 Case: So check that out when that comes. 1736 01:40:38,630 --> 01:40:41,990 Case: Oh, and lastly, oh, we should talk about one last thing. 1737 01:40:42,150 --> 01:40:44,070 Case: Certain POV is launching a new show. 1738 01:40:44,070 --> 01:40:48,070 Case: We are launching Trade School, which is a show about comic books. 1739 01:40:48,150 --> 01:40:57,230 Case: And specifically it is a show where each week a guest brings a comic book that they love, like a trade paperback of a comic book that they love and discusses it. 1740 01:40:57,230 --> 01:41:00,010 Case: And it's the same format as side quests from fun and games where. 1741 01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:02,600 Case: Where it's just that guest host, there's no one else. 1742 01:41:02,600 --> 01:41:08,320 Case: And they just talk for five to 15 minutes about the comic book and, like, why it's a thing that meant something to them. 1743 01:41:08,560 --> 01:41:19,680 Case: So, for example, I did the Squadron supreme trade paperback, and I got to talk about, like, why it was, like, really cutting edge when it was written and when I discovered it was really cool and how it was really cool that the. 1744 01:41:20,480 --> 01:41:21,600 Case: Not this part wasn't cool. 1745 01:41:21,600 --> 01:41:26,600 Case: The author had passed away, but the cool part was that they had cremated him and put his ashes in the ink of the comics. 1746 01:41:26,600 --> 01:41:27,520 Case: And that was, like, that. 1747 01:41:27,520 --> 01:41:29,520 Case: I was like, oh, this is a really gnarly comic. 1748 01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:29,950 Case: Like. 1749 01:41:30,020 --> 01:41:30,420 Case: Like, it's. 1750 01:41:30,420 --> 01:41:32,020 Case: It's fun to know that I have this. 1751 01:41:32,340 --> 01:41:35,180 Case: And so it was, like, fun to talk about that on there. 1752 01:41:35,180 --> 01:41:35,860 Case: So it's. 1753 01:41:35,860 --> 01:41:37,540 Case: It's, you know, is the story good? 1754 01:41:37,540 --> 01:41:41,300 Case: But it's also, like, why did this comic mean something to me at the time? 1755 01:41:41,300 --> 01:41:44,860 Case: And, you know, like, we're talking specifically trade paperbacks. 1756 01:41:44,860 --> 01:41:47,300 Case: If it's an arc that's available digitally, that's fine too. 1757 01:41:47,780 --> 01:41:48,580 Case: But that's. 1758 01:41:48,580 --> 01:41:49,540 Case: That's the basic idea. 1759 01:41:49,620 --> 01:42:03,920 Case: So, yeah, please, if that sounds cool to you, reach out to me at my email, case.aikenmail.com or you can find me on Discord or whatever way you want to reach out to me, and I would be happy to take your submission. 1760 01:42:03,920 --> 01:42:12,240 Case: We are going to be launching in September, and I'm hoping to have a backlog to make us go through at least a couple months before we actually launch. 1761 01:42:12,559 --> 01:42:17,440 Case: And I've got a lot of people who have promised episodes and a few who have submitted. 1762 01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:21,360 Case: I'm in good enough shape that I should be launching end of September. 1763 01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:28,730 Case: But, yeah, more people submitting would be great, and I would really appreciate people doing it because it's a really cool project that really celebrates comics. 1764 01:42:28,970 --> 01:42:30,450 Case: But that is a lot of me talking. 1765 01:42:30,450 --> 01:42:31,210 Case: And we should. 1766 01:42:31,290 --> 01:42:32,890 Case: We should wrap up this episode. 1767 01:42:33,770 --> 01:42:35,410 Case: So thank you all for listening. 1768 01:42:35,410 --> 01:42:36,410 Case: Thank you for. 1769 01:42:36,570 --> 01:42:37,770 Case: Thank you, Nick, for being here. 1770 01:42:37,930 --> 01:42:38,490 Case: Thank you. 1771 01:42:38,570 --> 01:42:39,370 DJ Nik: Thank you, guys. 1772 01:42:39,530 --> 01:42:41,530 Case: Thank you, J. Mike, always, for being my co host. 1773 01:42:41,770 --> 01:42:44,570 Case: Until next time, Stay super man. 1774 01:42:51,700 --> 01:42:54,260 Jmike: Men of Steel is a certain POV production. 1775 01:42:55,060 --> 01:42:57,700 Jmike: Our hosts are J. Mike Folson and Case Aiken. 1776 01:42:58,180 --> 01:43:01,460 Jmike: The show is edited by Sofia Ricciardi. 1777 01:43:01,860 --> 01:43:06,100 Jmike: Our logo is by Chris Bautista, and episode art is by Case Aiken. 1778 01:43:06,580 --> 01:43:08,660 Jmike: Our theme is by Jeff Moonan. 1779 01:43:12,580 --> 01:43:15,300 Case: Do you have a comic book you just can't stop thinking about? 1780 01:43:15,700 --> 01:43:27,030 Case: One that stuck with you years later on, Trade School guest hosts get the mic to talk about a graphic novel that changed the way they see the world or just made them fall in love with comics all over again. 1781 01:43:27,510 --> 01:43:32,550 Case: In just five to 15 minutes, you'll hear stories about the stories that real people love the most. 1782 01:43:33,030 --> 01:43:39,430 Case: Trade School, a short form ongoing series about the comic book trade paperbacks we love and why we love them. 1783 01:43:39,830 --> 01:43:41,990 Case: Find it wherever you get your podcasts. 1784 01:43:45,420 --> 01:43:46,300 Case: Cpov. 1785 01:43:47,180 --> 01:43:48,220 Case: Certainpov. 1786 01:43:48,700 --> 01:43:49,100 Case: Com.