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Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic and this is next Question.

Good evening everyone.

My name's Celese Lannin.

I'm part of nine two n wys Reconnotti Kaplan Talks team.

Thank you so much for being here for this very special nine to n Y Talks event in celebration of Bobby Brown and her debut memoir, Still Bobby.

Bobby is a renowned makeup artist and entrepreneur, best selling author, sought after speaker, beauty industry icon, and hotelier.

She founded two successful cosmetic brands, Bobby Brown Cosmetics and more recently, the clean beauty brand Jones Road.

She also envisioned and now operates the George Hotel in Montclair, New Jersey.

Moderating tonight's conversation is award winning journalist, philanthropist, producer, and number one New York Times bestselling author Katie Curic.

We are very excited to have our guests here with us this evening, so please help me in giving a warm nine to two n Y Welcome to Bobby Brown and Katie Curic.

I agree one.

I can't see anybody in this audience, but it's great to have you here tonight, and I'm very excited to be able to have a conversation with Bobby, who has written a memoir called Still Bobby, A masterclass in leading an authentic life, which is out now.

First of all, congratulations, it's like giving birth right.

I think it took more than nine months.

Yes it did.

Did you enjoy the process?

I did?

It was very cathartic, and I do you know, I tell all my friends I think everyone should write a memoir, even if it's just for yourself, for your kids or your grandkids.

I agree.

It helped me understand a lot of things.

But you know, I also, before we start, I just want to say how happy I am that you said yes when we asked you to do this, because Katie and I go way back.

We do.

We go way back.

And you know, every time I came to the Today Show, like you were doing all this incredible news things and I was doing makeup.

I was teaching people.

You know, how to line your eyes or whatever.

And one time you were interviewing me.

I'll never forget this, and I was showing people how to put mass scara on and the girl opened her eyes and I was like, I said to myself, oh shit, because it went on you know, her eyelid.

And I said, oh, I'm not going to say anything.

And Katie says, Bobby, you smudged, and I said that's good because we all smudge at home and this is how you fix it.

There You good.

Well, we're very good at improvising, and I was very good at not having an editor, right and just blurting out whatever in yourself.

And that's what we like about you.

Yeah, And I think we both we have some I think similarities in that way.

We I mean, I hope that we're unpretentious and kind of comfortable in our own skin and kind of are who we are.

And I think we're the same height.

We're both grandmothers.

I think I'm a little than you are.

How tall are you?

I used to say I was five three and three quarters and then I think I was really only five to two.

But I recently went to the doctor and I have shrunken inch.

And I grew.

I grew a quarter.

You do well.

First of all, I only started at five foot.

I've been five foot since third grade, right, so I you know, and I think I just know how to stand up really good.

When I go to the doctor.

Well, I was very depressed.

I made them measure me twice, but they said, yep, you're five to one.

Anyway, that's a whole other conversation.

But let's talk about your book, Bobby.

So obviously that was funny because I was going to start by asking you what your memories were of being on the Today Show, and did you feel like that was a real breakthrough because this was in the early nineties, right, Bobby, God, you're asking.

Me what it was a long time ago?

Yeah, I mean it was a long time ago.

It was after I wrote my first book.

Only because you know the how I even got on the Today Show.

I was at a book signing at Neiman Marcus, and you know, I answered.

Someone raised their hand and said they had a question.

I went over and I answered her and she was the sweetest little old lady and she said, she said to me, are you Jewish?

And I said I am why?

And she said, well, for a Jewish girl, you've done so much.

I saw you on the Today Show.

You were great.

I had been on once and she said, is there anything else you want to do?

I said, I'd like to be a regular on the Today Show.

She grabbed my arm and says, honey, Jeff Zucker is my grandson.

And that's how I got on the Today's Show.

Is that how you became a regular contessator?

So Jeff came down.

He called me Barbara.

He always called me Barbara, and he says, all right, Grandma Fran wants you on.

He says, how often do you want to be on.

I said once a month.

He said, all right, you're on once a month.

I came wait.

He came down the next month.

He said, hi, Barbara, how's it going.

I said good.

He says, now, what do you want?

And I didn't know?

But I looked up and I saw, you know, I was watching the show and I saw everyone had titles.

I said, can I have a title?

He said, what kind of title do you want?

I said, can I be the beauty editor of the Today Show?

He's like, all right, you're the beauty editor.

He never came down the third month.

I forgot to ask him for money.

But I was on for fourteen years.

And by the way, like there was no Internet, there was no Instagram.

That's how I think I helped Bobby Brown get on the map?

Was the Today Show?

Well you're welcome, Well, thank you fourteen years?

Or maybe we should thank Jeff Suckers Bubby right.

Grandma obviously had a lot of influence on him.

So I wanted to know why you thought now was the time to write a memoir.

Was there something that happened?

I mean, for me, I wanted to write a memoir while I still remembered things no, truthfully, And it was that weighing on you or why did you decide this was the moment to do it.

I did not want to write a memoir I had.

It was not on my list of things I want to do.

And when you know, someone, an Asian in France called me up and said, you've got to meet this woman who's an agent.

She wants to meet you and she'd love to do a book with you.

And I'm like, oh great, I'd love to do another makeup book.

So this woman, Rebecca, I saw her come in, came to my office and we just had the best talk and the greatest time.

She goes, I want to write.

I want you to do a memoir.

I said, I don't have anything to say.

And I just said I don't want to write a memoir.

She goes, no, no, no, you have a lot of things to say that could help people.

I want to put it in words.

And I said, She said, it doesn't have to be a memoir.

It could It could be advice, it could be anything you want.

So I kept telling everyone I'm writing a book.

It's not a memoir.

What is it.

I don't know what it is.

It's advice, maybe there'll be a recipe.

There's no recipes because I don't cook.

But and so I wrote a memoir.

Well, you know, I learned a lot about you.

I felt like I I you know, we've spent time together and I know you, and I've always been so proud and impressed by you, Bobby.

But it was fun to get to know you from an early age.

And the first part of the book, or part one, is called Know where You're From, And it's where we're introduced to your hometown.

We met Illinois in the Chicago suburbs.

Your dad, Papa Sam aka Cadillac Sam, and Nana, your mother and father, beloved aunt Alice, who had a really influential role in shaping who you are today.

Tell me a little bit about your childhood and what it was like because it was complicated, right, Well.

It's so funny.

You know people say complicated, and you know, people say, I mean, I've heard all these different things.

It was tragic, it was this.

I don't remember it being a tragic, complicated childhood.

I remember growing up in a loving family who adored me, who were you know, fun, creative, all right.

My mom had problems with mental illness, which you know her first we called it a nervous breakdown.

We didn't know what that was.

No one talked about mental illness or mental health.

And unfortunately, or fortunately when she when it first happened, it was the same year that one Flew's Kuckoonest came out.

And I was like, okay, so that was my first introduction.

You were in like seventh I was.

I was in seventh grade, which was first hospitalized.

Yeah, but you know, the positive thing about my mom being in the hospital, and I remember this so you know vividly, is my father and I used to drive to visit her every night, and we got to spend all this time together and talk and really, you know, I felt like a grown up and he said, you know, I need you, You need to, you know, really help me with this.

And I don't know, I felt very important and grown up.

And she was ultimately diagnosed with bipolar.

So how did that manifest itself?

And in sort of the way you were parented, particularly by her?

Was it a pretty stable was it?

You know?

Were there ups and downs in the family?

How did it manifest it.

In my young you know, my young years, there was not ups and downs.

She got better, she came home and it was a long time before she had another episode.

When she got older and things happened, I don't know if it was her hormones.

She my parents got divorced, she remarried someone, he passed away, and then it just became like NonStop, you know, bad issues, and you know, she was put on medication.

You know, whether it was lithium or whatever she was on.

All those things really took a toll on her.

And you know, when I like, I've been married thirty seven years and my husband married into this and she wasn't good and she I don't think he ever knew her good.

So, you know, it was a lot of years where it wasn't the mom that I remember having.

But I feel so lucky because I had her in the important years.

I think it was harder on my younger siblings, but I was, you know, seventh grade, eighth grade.

I was busy with my friend friends, and so I don't feel pain about my mom's illness.

And in fact, I think you write about what it taught you, how you developed an emotional resilience that you write has carried me through my life during that time.

So how did her illness kind of help create this resilience for you.

You know, I'm not sure.

But when I was writing the book and I was talking about it, and you know, people whether it was you know, my editor or my you know, co writer, my ghostwriter, would say things to me like, oh my god, And I'm like, did I block this out?

Like?

Is that how I dealt with it?

I blocked it out and I had to really kind of think about it.

I didn't.

I just moved on.

So why and how?

I don't know.

Maybe it goes way back from my people.

You know, Papa Sam came from Russia.

He had nothing, and he, you know, somehow figured out how to maneuver things to become Cadillac Sam.

And you know, I don't know.

You know, I watched my dad, who was a lawyer, but you know, very entrepreneurial, and nothing came easy to anyone, but everyone just went on with it.

I think when you don't know any differently, right, you just deal with the circumstances you're in.

And I know that your mom was quite glamorous, and meanwhile you had an aunt Alice, who was very practical.

You describe her that way, and that dichotomy really helped sow the seats of what you would later become.

Tell us about the influence of both of these women in your life and who you'd become.

Sure they could not be more different.

I mean, my mother was six years younger than my aunt Alice, and she, I mean really was an absolute gorgeous woman that you know, made sure she was as skinny as possible, were the highest heels she could, were the most beautiful makeup, and everything mattered to her, you know, looks and you know, popularity and all those things.

We on every diet together.

And my Aunt Dallas was or is she's ninety four years old.

My Aunt d Alice was the opposite.

Short hair, never wore heels, under five foot tall, smart as a whip, read every article out there, raised three kids, had this incredible love affair with Uncle Albert, and just you know, we talked about life and things, and it was my comfort zone to go there, you know, and then I'd go home and have to kind of fluff myself up, you know, to be with my mom sometimes.

But I'm a little bit of both, you know.

So I'm a little bit of both.

So you started playing with makeup like most girls, and Bobby and I are the same age.

I think I might be a six months older than me.

Maybe I'm six months older.

I don't know.

I was at least it's only six.

So do you don't tell anyone how tall you are?

Do you talk about your age?

Yes?

I did?

How old are you?

I'm sixty eight?

Okay, me too.

When's your birthday?

April?

April?

Okay?

My birthday Janue?

So three months old.

Three months now.

Because I went to your sixtieth birthday party with that's right, I dig evers and my husband.

Ah, well, thank you for coming.

That was fun, by the way, thank.

You for inviting me.

But I'm thinking about Bobby in middle school or junior high which we called it growing up in Virginia, and I'm thinking about you, like discovering makeup for the first time and really being enthralled by it.

And then I was thinking, as you were talking, you must have had like the same makeup I had, like Bonnie bell Let's Ours and Yardley Yardly Glimmerick.

Do you remember Glimmerick?

That was Yardy too.

Okay, Yeah, I had blue Masscara.

I loved blue mascot.

I don't think I had that, But did you have like gloves, lemon the cologne.

Did you have t Geena tee?

Of course?

And did you use Noxima?

I?

Did we do?

I did?

Did you sleep?

Wait?

Did you sleep with rollers?

And like orange juice cans in your hair?

Yeah?

Orange juice cans like this because my hair's kind of curly, even though it doesn't look that curly.

But anyway, so tell me about kind of your when you became infatuated and sort of interested in makeup.

Well, you know, I used to watch my mom put her makeup on to go on date night with my dad, and she was just so glamorous and so beautiful, and you know, wore the tightest little she had a teeny little waist and she would put black liner on and individual lashes, and I just remember this ultimate bronzer, this fat bronzing stick she'd put on her cheeks.

She'd blend it in and oh my god, she looks so great.

And I used to play with her old makeup, but I never wanted people to know I was wearing makeup, so I always kind of blended it in.

And you know, I remember we would go to Florida for spring break, and anyone that lived in Chicago it was a big competition who would get more tan?

Oh yeah, right, like you had to go back the tannist.

And so you know besides baby oil and aidad so baby oil and iodine.

I did that too, right, I mean, it's crazy.

I didn't do the record album covered in the loom in a foil.

I didn't do that.

You know what I did my mother's refrigerator case.

We did the whole body.

We took the old refrigerator box and we just put tinfoil in it and we laid in it.

With baby oil.

And I died so healthy.

Yeah, I mean while we were smoking cigarettes, probably, but no one told us that it wasn't good.

But so I used to use my mom's makeup to try to look really tan, and I wanted I just it made me when I looked in the mirror, I thought I looked pretty.

So that was just how I started.

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Then I know you had an aha moment.

I was trying to figure out what year, how old we were when Love Story came out.

But when you saw Ali McGraw in Love Story, it not only gave you an Aha moment, but it also gave you some comfort in who you were and what you look like.

Right, I'm sure you I know you were a cheerleader, right, what do you think?

Of course?

Yes, yes I did not.

I was not.

Were you on the student council?

Yes I was not.

I you know, so I just you know, I didn't want to peak too soon.

Okay, I'm still waiting, you know.

So I look, I was, I was in the popular group.

I had all these friends, but they were taller and blonder and smarter, and they did cartwheels and you know, and I just didn't.

So you know, I never felt that I was pretty enough, and I remember I saw this book in a bookstore and I asked my dad to get it for me.

It was Sheryl TEGs was on.

The cover, and it was like all her health and wellness, like Hacks or whatever.

My dad got her for me.

I read the book cover to cover.

I tried every single thing.

I freaking looked the same.

And when I finished the book, so nothing, nothing worked.

So I didn't feel that I was that attractive.

I look back now and I was really cute, but but you know, I didn't feel it.

And then when I went to the movies and saw Ali McGraw on the scool and she was the first brunette with like big eyebrows, hair parted in the middle, freckles on her nose, and I'm like, oh, I could be cute too.

I don't have to look like Cheryl Takes.

That's so funny and it's so crazy how popular culture can have such an influence, especially I think when you're younger, and I think one of the themes of this book is, you know, I think you dealing with your insecurity and feeling less than But also this quote from one of your favorite authors, Liz Murray, which is, so what now?

What tell me about that quote and why it resonated with you and you continue to kind of use it as your mantra.

Well, in the old company, I had it painted on the wall because everybody would come in and tell me why something couldn't happen or what happened you know that couldn't happen, And I would just sit there listening and I'm like, Okay, so what are you gonna do about it?

You know?

I mean I always think there's a solution and an answer to things.

And I know that's being an entrepreneur, but I still think, so what now?

What?

Like I could, you know, list ten million things that have happened, and I'm like, Okay, now, what are we gonna.

Do about it?

You're so unflappable.

I don't think that's true.

I'm I'm what do you mean I'm unflappable?

I just feel like you are Stephen?

Where's my husband?

Where are my kids?

I feel like you're you have a lot of equanimity.

Is that the word?

I don't know what that means.

Well, it just means I see.

That's how secure I am that I can ask you on stage what the hell that means.

I think it just means you're calm and kind of nothing rattles.

You again, where's my husband?

But but I do think is that not true?

Or you are?

You mean?

No, I no, I get I get rattled, and honestly, I go to Stephen and I tell him and he's like, uh huh.

So he's like, uh huh, we'll talk about it tomorrow.

Okay, it's fine.

You know.

So I think I've been conditioned to be that.

Seriously, I mean, I think it's because who I married.

All right, good Steven, Yeah, it's nice.

Well, I'm also really interested in your journey from growing up in Wamet and then going to college.

And I read Frank Brune's book and I highly recommend it if you have any people in your life very nervous about getting into college, because Frank, who I love.

By the way, I love Frank Bruney.

He wrote a book called Where You Go Isn't Who You'll Be?

And it's basically profiling so many interesting people like I think Howard Schultz is in it, Bobby's in it about kind of their paths.

Are you sure a minute?

Yeah?

Oh, anyway, Frank will be so happy to hear you say that.

But anyway, he talked about kind of your path, but I want you to tell everybody sort of what happened you and you start at the University of Arizona and.

The University Wisconsin hush gosh.

I went for six months, followed a boyfriend, then we transferred to University of Arizona, and then I came home and told my mom I wanted to drop out of school because it was really boring.

Oh, it was terribly boring.

And she said, you can't.

You have to go to school.

But Mom, I don't know what I want to do with my life.

I don't know where I want to go to school.

She said.

The craziest thing, she said, if today's your birth, that you could do anything you want.

What would you want to do?

And I don't know why it popped in my head.

I want to go to Marshall Fields and play with makeup.

She said, that's it, be a makeup artist.

I said, I don't want to go to beauty school.

She said, I'm sure there's a college somewhere.

And a friend of my dad's told me about this little communications school in Boston called Emerson, and so I flew up to Emerson and they would let me design my own major.

You know.

I said, do you have makeup here?

They said no, but if you want to, you could study makeup.

I think they needed students.

At the time.

But what really made me go to Emerson was they had a Magic Pan cafe and I had never seen an outdoor restaurant before and so it was very European.

I remember magic Cafe.

Yeah, so I went to Boston to see the Magic Pan.

That's a good reason to choose the school, Bobby.

But you did get to devise your own curriculum, and so tell us what that entailed.

It was sort of theatrical makeup right.

Well, well, it's called an inner disciplinary major.

I still don't know what that means.

And I've gotten like an honorary degree from them too, and I still don't know what it means.

But what it meant was that with you know, with my advisor, I had to take all the requirements, but then I had to take, you know, things for this major to learn everything I could about makeup.

So I ended up just doing makeup for all the plays for the film department.

I took a speech course, you know, I did anything I could.

They had one teacher that taught one class and make up, so I had to learn.

And you know, one year they my advisor came to me and says, I have an opportunity for you.

You can go to New York and you could work at the Metropolitan Opera House an internship.

I said no.

I didn't want to, like, like, waste my summer, so I didn't do that.

I didn't know, but who knows.

I could have not been in the fashion business.

That's true, So you know, I don't.

I don't regret not going.

But that would have been a cool opportunity.

It would have been a cool opportunity.

But you know it didn't interest me doing.

I mean, I like hip hop, not opera.

So you said no to that.

But you graduate from Emerson, yes, and you end up going to New York City.

Well, no, that's after a year because I first was a waitress.

I needed money to pay my rent.

Yes, so, and I was a terrible waitress, terrible, I'm really bad, but I did it for a year.

I was a waitress too.

Where you have so many parallels where you what are bad?

Was I a good waitress?

Not particularly?

I was okay, I enjoyed it because I kind of like the intensity and the hustle and bustle.

I remember somebody left me twenty five cents on a table and it was like twelve or fourteen people.

So I followed them out to the parking lot and I threw the quarter in their car and I said, don't.

I don't need your quarter, mister.

And you wouldn't do that today.

Though you would do that today.

You live in a different kind of world right now.

It depends on the revenant in the news on where we are.

Yeah.

But anyway, so you did you worked as a waitress.

Yes, And then I moved to New York and all I really wanted to do was be a makeup artist.

I actually one day went to get waitressing jobs and everybody said no.

So I went home.

I said, well that's not going to work, and I opened up the Yellow Pages and looked up modeling agencies, models, you know, makeup.

I got myself to the makeup artist union.

Who knew there was a makeup artist union.

I went there and I said, Hi, I'm here to sign up, and the guy looked at me and said, uh huh, let me tell you how it works.

Sit down, and he basically said, if you're not born into the Union, it'll take you a good seven to ten years of apprenticing to get in the Union.

So I said, well, that's not going to work.

But he did say I'll call you for gigs.

And so I got to assist the makeup artist on Saturday Night Live.

I got to do the local news.

And I'll never forget doing the local news.

I forget the guy's name.

He had a big mustache.

I did his makeup, and he was really not nice at all, and he had a booger in his nose, Okay, And I said to myself, do I tell him?

I told him because I cared more about doing a good job than letting him go on.

Yeah, I'm sure he appreciated that.

Bobby.

So you're doing all these different gigs in New York City, and I know that Bruce Webber a job that you had with him, he saw something in you, didn't he about the way you worked and kind of the lighter touch you had with makeup.

Tell us about that.

I mean, it definitely wasn't like the first couple of years in New York.

It took a few years of getting a little bit known and you know, being hired for magazines.

But I got the opportunity to work with Bruce because his regular makeup artist, a woman named Bonnie Maller, got a different or a better job.

So I was a wreck.

I mean, I was just a nervous wreck.

I think I tried on like three hundred pairs of jeans to see which ones would be the cool jeans.

But I'm sure Bruce didn't notice.

But seriously, I got to the studio, I knocked on the door and Bruce opened the door with his bandana, and I'll never forget.

I was like, and he said, Bobby, I've been waiting a long time to work with you.

Please come in.

You're you know, you're so great.

And that taught me, like he understood that I was a nervous wreck.

He was.

He didn't have to be that nice, but he was really nice.

And I've carried that on, you know, years and years with myself.

But I worked with him.

I did makeup on the model.

It was a girl named Talsa, beautiful girl, and he said when we were all Donnie said, all right, Bobby, take it off.

It's too much.

And it was really light handed, but he said, take it off, and then he went and he pinched her cheek.

He said, that's what I want her to look like.

And you know, and he said, to Lisa, bite your lips and.

Then like Scarlett O'Hara, kind of yeah.

But then I saw what he was looking for, and I went back and I did her makeup again, and he said, that's it.

So I understood what real like.

Not natural makeup doesn't mean it's hardly there or it's nude.

It just means it's the actual colors you have in the skin.

So that kind of started my makeup journey.

And really influenced sort of your whole brand, not only with Bobby Brown but now with Jones Road.

But before we get to that and kind of creating your own line, you're you're really hustling in New York and then you meet your husband, Stephen, and you dedicate the book to Steven.

And after that first meeting, you called your dad the next morning and said that you had met the man you're going to marry.

So even though he's here and we'll get embarrassed, tell us about Steve and Bobby.

Well, first of all, he's my partner and everything.

You know, he's he's always there for me, and you know I'm always there for him.

I'm his partner.

I don't know if he cares as much about my opinion is I need his opinion.

But we are always there for each other.

You know, we are incredibly lucky people because we've you know, we've had these three kids together.

We now have two grandkids.

We you know, I follow him anywhere.

He goes to more places than I would choose to go to, but I go because it makes him happy.

And you know, he's my partner in work and my partner in life.

I could, I honestly say this one hundred percent.

There's not a chance that I would be Bobby Brown without him.

I wouldn't have the guts and I wouldn't have the wherewithal.

That's such a nice thing to say.

Here's to Steven.

Where is he anyway?

Where are you?

Stephen?

And I saved the front row for my family, But clearly they.

Oh, he's back there anyway.

You know, So Stephen goes to law school, right, Bobby, and you feel a lot of pressure to work and to make a bit more money.

Yeah, the real.

Estate market crashed and he came to me and he said, oh, I better get a job.

And I looked at him and I had this vision of him standing on you know, at the sixty six bus with a briefcase.

I'm like, that's not my husband.

I said, that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard you say.

And then he went to law school.

So you decided to help out obviously, while he's in law school and you're on a shoot for Self magazine and you meet the other Steven who is an on site chemist at Keels and he makes his own lipsticks, right, So tell us about that meeting and how that basically created this new side hustle for yourself.

Well, when I was doing this shoot for Self magazine, it was the story was like makeup shopping and alternative places in New York.

I was actually pregnant with Dylan, who's now thirty five.

Isn't that insane?

And he had these lipsticks and I'm like, ooh, what are these?

They're really nice.

He said, Oh, I make them out of my house.

He was a chemist from Pennsylvania, and I said, I've always wanted to make a lipstick.

I said, because I always have to fix lipsticks to make them look you know, this brownish nude color.

He said, I could make them for you.

I said, really, he says, yeah, tell me what you want.

And so we started working on this lipstick.

We got the formula down and then I sent him the things.

We got the color down, and I said to myself, oh my god, I love this.

I bet I could sell it.

And then I realized, well, not everyone is going to like that color lipstick.

Some people like you know, pink or red, and people have different color lips.

Like it just dawned on me.

I'm like, this is not going to look the same.

So I thought about ten different colors.

He made them our business deal.

And if there's business people in the audience, our business deal was he would give me the lipsticks.

We'd sell them for fifteen dollars.

He would get seven fifteen.

I would get seven fifty.

Oh it's pretty good, right, that's some cash for groceries.

So that's how we started.

And you had this set of ten different shades, right.

That we would put in a Manila envelope.

Stephen would mail them and you know, we had the ingredients in a card.

Now I know that's called like, you know, environmentally friendly, because we didn't have boxes.

So this business grows and grows, right, these lipsticks become super popular.

They become popular, you know.

Also a friend of mine who was a beauty editor at Glamor magazine said, can I write about them?

Why would you want to write about Like?

Why, Well, now I know it's called pr And they kind of took off.

And then we had to hire my sister in La Brina to do the books.

And so she came and did the books, and Stephen did the mailing and the accounting, and all of a sudden we had this little business.

And it was Bobby Brown Essentials.

No, it wasn't it was it was just called Bobby Brown.

There wasn't essentials.

So when did it become essentials?

Well, so we had this little side hustle.

We didn't call it that then back then, but it was a side hustle.

And then one day we went to a party in the city at someone's house.

Her name was Alison, and I said, thank you for inviting me, and she says, oh, thank you for coming.

I'm a big fan.

I'm like, oh, you know who I am.

She said, yeah, I've seen your work in magazines and I said, what do you do?

She said, well, I'm a cosmetics buyer at Bergdorf Goodman.

I said, oh, let me tell you about this thing I have.

Talk about serendipity, right.

I mean Jeff's grandma and Burgdorf.

Yeah, yeah, So she said, I'd like to sell them.

Yeah, I'd like to sell him.

So we sold, you know.

So we we had this deal, which you know, this is when Stephen came in, because I don't know how to make those deals.

I know how to open the door, I just don't know how to close the door.

So what was the deal was with Burgdorf?

Right?

But but you can't start a business seven fifty and seven fifty.

It doesn't work.

So we had to find someone to make the lipsticks and have, you know, start all over again basically.

And what happened to the Keels guy?

He went on to do other things, you know, and I had to start all over again, you know.

He I mean I he couldn't do what I needed to be done, and he knows and he knew that.

And so I was at an elevator one day and I said hi, and the girl said hi, And I don't even know how.

I asked her, what do you do?

She said, Oh, I work for a cosmetics manufacturer.

I said, do you have a card, and they started making my first.

Shik like Walter Mitty or something.

You know.

Yeah, so you met her, I.

Met her, I got her card, and she helped me reproduce the lipsticks.

And so when we sold into Burgdorf Goodman February of ninety one, it was, you know, ten lipsticks sitting on a table.

We thought we'd sell one hundred the first day, and we sold the first month, and we sold one hundred the first day.

Wow.

And you meanwhile, you're getting proposals out the wazoo from all different corporations to sell Well not that week, well no, but later on, later on after Bobby Brown Essentials kind of really gets off the ground.

I mean really, we sold the company after four and a half years, which I know is not a long time.

No, And there were a lot of offers, so a lot of interest we had.

We had a bunch of different interests.

So then Esday Latter comes around, and what made you finally say yes to es Day Ltder.

Well, we didn't say yes to s D Latter.

We said yes to Leonard Lotter.

Yeah right, I mean Leonard Lotter, right, I mean it.

Was like, oh, I mean I love Leonard Lotter too.

Right, I mean Leonard Lotter.

You just always said yes to Leonard Lotter and he always said yes to me.

What were those years like?

I mean, I know it was a mixed bag ultimately, but when you first came you said it was life changing, right, Yeah, it sounds like an episode of that girl.

You know, you're oh, it was very I was between Melanie Griffith and you know, and working Girl and Marlo Thomas and that girl like I you know, and a little you know, Mary Tyler Moore.

But it was it was crazy, it was exciting, it was incredible, and you know, we had an office.

I think our first office was on Park Avenue.

We eventually moved into the GM building.

And in the beginning it was magic.

I had all the support I had, I had anything, you know that I needed to grow this company.

And you know, we by the time they when they bought us, we were the number one line in Bergdorf and in Niman Marcus.

And you call those the wonder years.

They were the wonder years.

I mean every you know, every event that Leonard went to Steven and I got invited to and we got to meet all these incredible people, and we traveled, you know, the globe, and they took really good care of us.

And Leonard just let me be myself.

Like I never felt that my crazy ideas were juvenile.

I just you know, he always he thought I was really smart.

But there was a moment, I guess after a while, right, Bobby were say, twenty two years, twenty two years?

But yes, so you're you're happy until you're not right And and what made you get restless and feel like maybe a bit constraint by being in this corporate world.

Well, you know, things changed and things got tougher, and the you know, the business and the corporation grew and there was new people that were coming in and then little by little things started changing at Bobby Brown.

And you know, I always went to work thinking I could fix things if they would just listen to me, if I could just do this.

I knew exactly what needed to get done, and you know, towards the end, no, it just didn't work.

So it was it was, it was pretty miserable at the end.

Was that hard for you, especially with your close relationship with Leonard.

Well, I don't think Leonard was that involved at the end, he was you know, other powers took over, so I didn't have Leonard to go to to talk about things.

You know, he didn't just say yes to me.

We talked things through.

He really was, you know, a business partner.

But when he wasn't around, and there was other important you know, people running the company.

Those who shall not be named, so those.

Don't need to be named.

But it changed, and you know, it was a really different kind of company, and it was probably you know, I probably overstayed my welcome by a couple of years, but I kept thinking I was going to fix it.

Looking back, do you regret selling your company TOI?

Not a nanosecond.

Nor do I regret the last two miserable years I learned.

I became a much better person because of what I went through.

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So you leave in twenty sixteen, four years remaining on your non compete.

And twenty five year non compete.

Yes, and so Mini you couldn't work in the beauty industry till twenty twenty.

Did you know, Bobby during that period, I'm gonna I'm going to do it all over again.

Absolutely not.

So what motivated you to say I'm going to start this new line and I'm super excited to do it and I'm not done yet.

Well, I when I left the company, I really thought I was done.

I said I'm done.

You know, that was a journey, that was okay, that door's closed, now what?

And you know I took two days really kind of you know, moping and not working and then I just said, this stinks, and I started calling people and going out and I didn't know what I was going to do.

I mean, you know, I had I had my calendar was so overbooked from things that all of a sudden, I didn't have anything on it.

So I had to fill the calendar and.

I would go talk to people, and you know, one of the first people I talked to gave me an opportunity to open a Just Bobby shop at for Lord and Taylor's, So I got that project.

You know, my husband said to me, I need your help on this project.

He had bought a building and wants to turn into a hotel.

Okay, sure, I never even said once in my life I want to have a hotel, but sure, why not?

So we did that and it was fun.

And then I opened a wellness brand, which was incredibly great experience, and it didn't work.

You know, it's good to have something that doesn't work, right.

Yeah, Well, what he learned from that.

I learned that it probably you know, first of all, starting a line one line in Bergdorf and another line of Walmart, two different things, and you know, it's a different beast and not everything that I touch turns to gold and that was you know.

Okay, that was humbling.

I guess, totally humbling.

But you decided to go back to your first love makeup and you're sixty two years old and you say, I'm going to start this new company called Jones Road, which is named after a street near your house in Sagaharbor.

No, no, it's actually a street.

Step and I don't agree on this.

There's a street in East Hampton Jones Road, but we don't usually go that way, so I think it was some past West Hampton.

There's a street called Jones Road.

And I was complaining to Stephen that we couldn't find a name of this new company.

And I wanted to launch the day my noncompete was up.

I didn't care that it was in the middle of the pandemic.

I didn't care that it was a week before the presidential election.

I didn't care.

I just wanted to launch it that day.

I didn't care.

So he said, if we don't have a name by Monday, and this was like either Thursday or Friday morning, we're not going to be able to do it.

And I looked down at the map because when we drive Stephen likes me to look at ways and Google maps, because god forbid, we're five minutes late, even if we have nowhere to go.

Okay, So I looked down and I saw Jones Road, and I said Jones Road beauty, And immediately in my head it sounded like a bespoke British brand that they asked me to make modern again.

And Stephen said, I like it, and we called our lawyer and it was available and it became Jones Road.

So what was your north star when you created this new line and how did your goals and your mission change from when you started out with Bobby Brown.

I mean, obviously you're in a very different situation and position, but in terms of the product itself, well, it's.

So funny because I felt really youthful and young and energized.

Because when I first started Bobby Brown with the lipsticks and you know, and starting the early company where there were not a lot of layers, it was just kind of me being excited and doing things.

I felt that again, like I felt like I was in my thirties, and you know, I had one I hired one person to help me with this, and we started just kind of playing with things and we had to find all new labs because I didn't want to hire anyone from the old company.

I didn't want to use any of the labs, and you know, I wanted to see if it was possible to create a clean line and I didn't know.

So we found you know, we didn't open up the Yellow Pages this time, but we googled.

But it's kind of the same thing.

And we found these labs and started making these products.

And this one product came in and I looked at it and it wasn't what I asked for, and I was kind of annoyed.

But then I stuck my finger in it and I went like this because that's what makeup artists do.

And then I put it on my face and I'm like, oh my god, look at me.

This is a friggin miracle.

I didn't say friggin, but I said, this is a miracle.

And everyone at the office was like, oh my god.

And it became miracle ballm and I ended up putting it in little containers and I gave it to my friends.

Because you remember during the pandemic, when you finally realize you're doing zooms again, yeah, and you realize you looked terrible but you know you haven't colored your hair, cut your hair, and just this little stuff on the face made everybody look so much better.

They kept coming back and asking for more.

Bobby, I ran out of that little teeny thing, Can I have more?

So I knew I had a winner.

And so your philosophy, I mean it's interesting, Bobby, because I know you like Instagram.

We're both a little addicted maybe, And you know you see all these makeup tutorials, especially I think in recent years the contouring that really the Kardashian kind of look, and you have always rejected that and felt that.

I guess my question is, what is your beauty philosophy?

Well, you know, I watched those things, and I'm really fascinated by the talent a lot of these you know, content creators have with makeup.

I'm not that talented.

I'm not like, I'm not that kind of a makeup artist painter, But I'm really talented what I do.

And I have figured out, you know, how to teach women, how did you just look better but still look like yourself and not change?

And you know I didn't invent makeup.

I just like reinventing it and I like to demystify it because everyone's like, so it's they think it's so complicated, and it's so not complicated.

And I love that your models are all ages.

As somebody who's sixty eight.

I really appreciate that you show your products on someone who's twenty two and someone who's seventy two, and I mean a beautiful seventy two.

I mean, I you know, look, I know I'm sixty eight, but I don't feel age.

I don't see age.

I don't think about it, you know, except when we talk about something popular culture.

And the kids in my office have no idea, no idea who this person is.

That's my assistant, didn't know who the Partridge family was.

I was crushed, was like, you don't know David Cassidy.

I mean some of the girls in my office didn't know who Diane von First was or Paul Smith.

And I'm just like, if you don't know who Paul McCartney is, you're walking out of.

The door right now.

So I know that you.

I was thinking when you were talking about the Today Show being a great sort of PR tool for you before before social media, you adapted to social media really well, and I think you did it by being yourself, and these videos you did really went viral.

Tell me about how you started, how you became a TikTok star.

I know, right, it was like Bobby brown sixty two TikTok Star, Bobby Brown's sixty four TikTok Star.

I guess I'm not a TikTok star anymore because I don't say Bobby Brown's sixty eight TikTok Star.

But you know, in the beginning, I didn't really want I didn't go on TikTok.

I just thought it was for you know, stupid dance tricks or whatever.

And you know, my our son Cody, who is now the CEO, who was the head of brand, who is the head of marketing, then said, you know, we had a we had a call with Gary Vaynerchuck, and he said, you got to stop what you're doing.

You just got to do TikTok.

Go hire an agency, go hire people, just get a team.

We got off the phone and Cody looked at me, he says, all right, mom, go And I just looked in the in the phone, you know, in good light, with my head up because it you know, that's part of it now.

And I said I'm you know, I'm new to TikTok.

I'm Bobby.

What do you want?

You know, what do you want to know?

And people went crazy.

I didn't know there were people my age on TikTok.

Yeah, like they're a ton And so, you know, we started doing TikTok and we had a couple of major viral moments and it really quadrupled our business for a while.

Is it fun working with your son Cody, who is now the CEO, Well, he was the head.

Of growth, then he was marketing, and then he was the CMO, and now he's the CEO.

So it is really interesting, you know, is it fun?

I don't think it's fun.

You know, it's more fun when I go to his house and play with his kids.

He's you know, he's very serious at work.

He's really smart.

He's not here he's had enough of his mom and you know, it's it's just super interesting for me to sit there and listen to my son be the smartest guy in the room.

But that must make you really proud.

It makes me really proud.

It does.

And his wife is the head of brand, so.

I met them both when I came, right, Yeah I did, Yeah, Yeah, came to your place.

Let me do some audience questions so we can get to some of these.

Somebody asked, did you ever regret signing the twenty five year non compete?

I don't need to regret.

I mean, maybe I should have signed a twenty year but no.

Stephen was said it might be a problem.

Well, Stephen said, you might not like this, But when he told me we had a twenty five year non compete, like, I'm I had to count on my fingers because I'm not good at math.

But I'm like, I'm not going to want to work when I'm in my sixties, So it didn't really matter.

Someone asked, and this is a nice question.

Your dad, Joe is a children's book author.

Did he have any advice for you ahead of writing your memoir?

Just no, he no, you know, he's he's He corrected me a few things, like he read the chapter about him, and he corrected me on a few things, as did Aunt Dallas, and as did you know my kids?

So yeah, no.

And by the way, speaking of Aunt Dallas, if you know anyone in Chicago, I couldn't wait for this book talk.

But my Aunt Dallas is interviewing me on stage at her retirement community.

She's ninety four.

Oh, that's so nice.

Her boyfriend is ninety five and he's bringing four of his daughters.

Ah, that's so sweet.

That's so nice.

This kind of goes along the same lines as the earlier question.

But how do you feel having let go of something with your name and now someone else is making the decisions and the profits with no one from you because they still sell Bobby Brown.

Still sell Bobby Brown.

And you know, in the beginning, it was really hard.

I'm not gonna lie.

I didn't want to go near a Bobby Brown counter.

I still haven't used any of the products since I left the brand.

It was just an emotional thing for me.

It took me a while to get rid of any kind of emotion, anger, sadness, loss, all of that stuff.

I worked through things, you know, with the way I work through things, and you know, nothing like a successful new act to kind of help you get over it faster.

Yeah, how does the brand do?

Bobby Brown?

I don't know.

Okay, this is also an interesting question.

The beauty industry is in a very odd place at the moment.

Big companies like Cody are struggling, while Indie brands and influencer brands are thriving.

What are they doing right versus wrong?

And this person said, I love the miracle bombs.

Ah.

Well, you know, it's a new world, Goldie.

That's all I have to say.

And I think that any you know, I think every company out there has to, you know, shift and adjust and adapt and just you know, be a little more nimble to how things in the world are, you know, are.

Happening, Bobby, I brought my mom to this event.

She traveled all the way from Canada.

Thank you for coming to our country, Canada.

That was very brave of you, she she she loves you and Katie, thank you, Thank you Canadian Mom.

What is the single most important piece of advice you received that contributed to your success and who was it from?

Thank you, Nicole.

Well, you know, I got a lot of advice.

You know, my my parents pretty much taught me to be myself and that was pretty good advice.

And Leonard Latter gave me the best.

Well, my I'm gonna tell you my dad and Leonard Lotter.

Leonard Latter said to me once, never ever ask for permission, just beg for forgiveness.

So he gave me that permission am my dad.

When I called my dad when I was trying to make it in New York and I said, Dad, I keep going over on my checking account.

I can't, I can't balance, can't.

I don't know how to you know how to do this, and I'm just always going over.

And he said, well, stop worrying how you're going to budget yourself.

Just figure out how you're going to make more money.

He said, okay, that was good advice and you took it to heart.

I'm going to do a quick lightning round with completely shallow, superficial questions.

Whatca, what's the biggest mistake people make when it comes to makeup, especially if you're over fifty, not using enough moisturizer.

Can anyone wear red lipstick?

Absolutely not?

Who I know?

I can't.

I can't either.

I look so weird.

I just you know what, you're either a red lipstick person or you're not, so I just do red nails.

Does it have to do with your skin?

Now?

It has to do with what you like?

What you what you like?

I mean red lipstick is a little polarizing.

Yeah, it looks swift, it does, and a lot of you know, French women look great.

And I don't know as anyone wearing red lipstick in here.

One somebody?

Yeah, one person.

Well it's dark in here, but I'm sure you look fantastic.

Okay, is there really anything out there that will get rid of creepy skin?

Asking for a friend.

So I grew up with a mom that bought every wrinkle remover cream on the market, and nothing ever worked.

You know, creepy skin is just dry, dehydrated skin.

But it also is skin that has separated from your muscle when you get older.

Well, guess what the best way to get rid of it is to build more muscle.

Yeah, that is really the only way.

And where moisturizer.

Make sure you're drinking enough water and just really, everyone in this room.

If you don't have a weight routine, there's nothing better for your and health then weights.

I have a weightlifting class tomorrow.

In fact, I'm trying.

But then when I do it, I can't walk for three days.

Well there's a different way to do it, Katie.

Then well you need to come and help me.

Well, when I when I replace your oreos with the Norri protein drink.

We'll talk.

I had oreos backstay dinner, but anyway, just once we ordered it.

What what what are your thoughts on botox and facelifts?

Well, let's see.

You know, I've I've said I'm never going to have a facelift.

I'm not.

I don't think I'm ever going to have a facelift.

You know.

I Botox for me is not something I choose to do.

I tried it when I was in my forties and I had two terrible, terrible things.

I did not tell my husband about it, you know, but he's heard me admit it, and you know it's not for me.

But if it's for you and you like it, that's fine.

Yeah.

In closing, Bobby, you've accomplished so much, and I know there's a lot more you want to do.

But what do you think is next for you?

Are you happy building this new very successful, very well loved brand and kind of making this?

You know this?

You're not.

I don't want to say final act because I said, but you know, are you?

Are you looking to do anything more after this?

You think?

Open to anything?

Really?

I have no thoughts or plans.

First of all, I love what I'm doing at Jones Road.

I mean, it's just it's my favorite place to be is in my office with all the kids that work for me, and you know, talk about cool things that are doing.

It's it's it's my it's my happiness, you know.

Between that and Lily and Sean, my grandkids, it's like it's just the best.

And you really love to work.

I mean I'm the same way.

I love to work.

It just work gives me purpose.

And it gives and it like infuses energy and I meet new peace and I get to, you know, use my creativity and my curiosity.

I do.

I love it.

I love new experiences.

I don't know what else is ahead in the future.

I would like to figure out a way to have more free time, but not until this book is on the New York Times bestsellers list.

Hey everybody, I need your help.

Bobby, thank you so much.

This was so much fun.

Thanks for listening everyone.

If you have a question for me, a subject you want us to cover, or you want to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world, reach out send me a DM on Instagram.

I would love to hear from you.

Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media.

The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric and Courtneyltz.

Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes.

Julian Weller composed art theme music.

For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com.

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