Hello and welcome to Unshakeable With Human Design.

I'm your host, Nicole Laino, and I am here with a, a friend, someone that I've wanted to have on the show for a long time.

She is a remarkable woman.

She's honestly, um, when you hear her story, you'll be blown away.

Everybody is.

Because it is this, you know, it, it, it is a real story, a survivor's story, um, that has a happy ending.

Um, and, but I think the reason that I wanted to have her on is not just because of that story, but because of, of this transformation that I've watched her go through, and how every day seeing her step more and more into this light that she holds.

For everything that she is.

It's so authentic.

It's so her, um, what she helps women do as far as writing their stories and memorializing their story, kind of owning it.

Um, I, I can't think of anybody who's doing that better, that I'm aware of, that I'm in contact with to actually being that example of, of.

Really holding that light of owning your story and owning who you are.

And she's someone I've talked about on this show before.

Uh, uh, because you, you're one of those famous cases, Jess, of, of having thought you were a Manny, Jen.

Yeah.

And you discovered that you were a pr I unveiled.

Uh, I, I dropped a bomb on you, and I was like, you're actually a projector.

And it was such a funny thing, and I loved how you, you really embraced it.

Mm-hmm.

And not everybody does.

Mm-hmm.

You were just like, you know what, if I accepted this as true, what would happen?

What would that, what, what would that do?

Yeah.

Um, and it's not just the, you know, it's not just the human design thing.

It's what I saw you go through after you.

And I'm not, I'm not giving human design the credit for this.

Mm-hmm.

But since I met you, I have watched you just step into like the bigness of what a projector can be.

And I think that that's something that's a misconception too, is that projectors are like these, like, you know, they're meek or leaning back and it's like not at.

All.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

The big energy.

Yeah.

And um, and I've just seen you do that.

And now with this new book that you have coming out, how to Survive Survival, A Guide to Turning Life's Hardest Moments Into Meaningful Contribution for the World.

I saw that and I was like.

Now's the time to have you on the show.

I really want you to talk about this journey that you've been on and, and to share your story.

And, you know, when you hear her story, you're gonna be like, oh wow.

Um, 'cause there's really nothing like it.

But I actually think it's so much more interesting after that, um, what you've been through, so, and, and what you've grown into and what you're helping people do.

Mm-hmm.

So, Jessica Buchanan.

Welcome to the show.

Thank you.

It's, it's so great to be here.

Um, yes.

I mean, human design has very much changed my approach to how I view myself and how I, um, show up in my, my professional life and my personal life.

I was.

Joking before.

I take a lot more naps now and I feel okay about that.

Um, because projectors need to rest.

And that also makes me feel better when I kick my snoring husband out of bed and say, look, projectors need their own space to sleep to restore their energy.

You know?

And so I use it maybe in some ways as a bit of an excuse.

But, um, at the same time, I think the thing learning about being a projector for me that was, um, so significant was that, um.

Um, oftentimes we're guides.

Mm-hmm.

And so I'm a teacher by profession, um, and which is really where.

I guess that interesting part of my story, um, begins, you know, I have many ways in which I label myself.

I'm a wife, I'm a mother, I'm a, I'm a a, an entrepreneur, a CEO, a teacher.

But, um, I'm also a kidnapping survivor.

And so, um, 2011 I was working for an NGO, an International NGO in Somalia.

My husband and I met in Nairobi, Kenya.

A few years before that when I was teaching in an international school.

Um, and he, uh, his organization had moved him up to Somalia and, uh, Northern Somalia to be based, um, to do a developmental development work, uh, humanitarian work.

And, you know, teachers always find work, they always land on their feet.

So I quit my teaching job and moved up there with him and.

Um, sure enough, started working for the un, started doing work for the Ministry of Education in armed Violence Reduction, which is not something I knew much about until I started learning and, um, and started traveling all over East Africa teaching, uh, conflict management strategies, um, mind risk education, firearm safety, uh, just.

Community safety in general in these very, uh, very interesting, um, cultures.

Not these nomadic societies.

A lot of them were low literacy or no literacy.

And so my job was to use my, um, my teaching skills to basically learn, uh, teach, um, these people who are living on the fringes, right?

Uh, how to stay safe.

They're living in, um.

Areas that are still inundated with landmines or unexploded ordinances, little kids would be getting hurt.

And so that was my job is to make, make those, uh, messages accessible in terms of keeping them safe.

Um, so it felt like.

Very gratifying.

It felt very fulfilling.

It was hard.

Um, and, and I was far away from home, but I really felt like I'm a very purpose-driven person.

I'm, I'm guessing that that has something to do with being a projector as well, and, um.

And it was great until it wasn't, uh, which in 2011, October, 2011, I was sent by my organization down to the southern part of Somalia to go do a staff training, uh, with my colleague.

And I was only supposed to be there for three days, made it to the third day.

Um, we were leaving the training and our vehicle was overtaken by armed gunman.

We were subsequently, um, driven out into the desert.

Where we were forced to participate in a mock execution, and then we were held for 93 days, um, uh, for a $45 million ransom demand.

Um, and we were kept outside in deplorable conditions.

We were starved.

Uh, we were beaten.

Um, eh, we, you know, we lived outside the entire time.

Um, it was.

Horrendous.

You know, sometimes I, I, you know, I talk about this a lot.

I tell this story a lot, and of course as time goes on, you know, you start to forget.

And, uh, my husband and I were watching a show last night on Netflix called Hostage, and he was like, are, are you sure you wanna watch this?

And I said, yeah, I think it's fine.

It's, I think I'm, it's fine.

And there was, I don't wanna be a spoiler, but.

There was a great moment where some of the hostages were, you know, rescued essentially, and we were laying in bed and we both just grabbed each other's hands and held onto each other because it was like, even after all this time, you know, those just like watching some stupid show, like it still feels very much like, oh, I know exactly, exactly the relief that those people are feeling right now.

And, um, and so, uh, 93 days by order of President Obama, um.

Seal Team six, uh, the us um, most elite military force.

Um, parachuted into the desert in the middle of the night and successfully rescued me and my colleague Paul.

And, um, then I like to say like, that's where the second part of my survival story begins, because I had no idea and I don't think, I just don't know if it's that we don't talk about it enough, or maybe we just don't have enough.

I don't know if we don't have enough research about it, but there is really the space of surviving survival that happens for those of us.

And we've all experienced trauma, um, to some extent.

Um, but for many of us, um, uh, you know, if you've experienced a death or, uh, the loss of.

A dream or a job or, um, what you fill in the blank.

Um, none of us escapes the human experience unscathed.

Um, it's that space where you feel like you should be over this by now and you're not, because you're still surviving, but you're not surviving the trauma anymore.

You're surviving survival.

And, um, that has been, wow, that's been the longest journey of my life.

Uh, and, and that's what this, this book is about.

This next book is about, so, so talk to me a little bit about.

About that, about surviving survival.

So you're rescued by Seal Team six.

Everybody thinks that like, oh, great.

Now you just, I don't think anyone thinks you just go on with your life.

Sure.

But you know, there's a, a, a huge gap in time between that, um, what.

What inspired you to write this book?

'cause you wrote a book about your story of, of being a kidnapping survivor and what that was like, and you know, the whole story of everything that you just told us.

Yes.

You and you've been a, you've been a touring speaker on that book and you know, I, I believe you've spoken at like the, the UN and you've, you've had all of these opportunities that, that have come from that.

But why?

And you help.

Other, is it, is it exclusively women that you work with, uh, for writing Right now we are, we are starting to branch out, but right now just women.

Yep.

Because you have your publishing company where you publish memoirs and anthologies of, of women writing their story and owning their story.

Mm-hmm.

Um, does that feel like one chapter in itself of you having to own that story like you wrote the book?

Did you feel like you owned it after that or was there so much more work that you didn't even realize was needing to be lived or worked through after?

Yeah, I think impossible odds.

Um, I, while it's considered a memoir, I would consider it more so just an account of what happened.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and so, um, I think in the like immediate aftermath, uh, you know, it was a very high profile media event.

Of course you have Obama involved and you've got SEAL Team six.

They're the same, um, seals that, um, you know, killed Osama Bin Laden.

Mm-hmm.

So, very high profile.

Um, and so I don't think I knew which story to tell.

Mm-hmm.

I didn't know what was my story.

I, I was telling the story that I thought everybody wanted to hear.

And so I had to work through this like damsel in distress narrative because absolutely I was in distress.

But it took me a really long time to understand that there can be more than one hero in a story.

And, and you know, the classic like narrative, uh, uh, uh, the Hero's Journey only really teaches us to write one in, but what I think I've been able to do is write.

And two and, and three, and four and five, because there are a lot of heroes involved in my story, thank God.

Right.

Um, because teamwork makes the dream work.

And in my, my situation is the ultimate teamwork.

I wouldn't be here if it, if that weren't true.

Um.

I think for me and what I have found and really what this next, this next book is about, which this will be my fifth book because I've written, um, uh, many or been the lead author of several anthologies in between.

But, um, what I've really tried to unpack and articulate is that when we experience something really hard.

Um, there's often a loss of identity, and then there is, along with that, the loss of purpose or a perceived loss.

And so when I came back from the desert.

150000% happy to be alive, grateful to be reunited with my family and my husband.

I didn't know who I was anymore.

Mm-hmm.

I didn't know what I could do, what I was qualified to do.

Um, you know, my, my particular situation came with a loss of my job.

I was no longer able to go and continue doing what I had.

So I had, I had worked so hard.

To get there.

Um, and then it was just, poof, it was gone.

I lost my home.

Um, we had to relocate back to the us, um, which I, you know, my husband is not from this, the us and so that was difficult.

And then all of a sudden, I am, I'm having a baby, which everybody was like, oh, how amazing.

And I'm like, I'm not so sure about that.

So then you got that secondary loss of identity.

Mm-hmm.

And then this, you know, and so.

I really struggled.

I really wondered, I think understanding I was a projector if I had understood that earlier.

Might've been very helpful for me.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but I'm better late than ever.

Um, but I think that, um, yes, it's in that space of the now what?

That really, really gets people stuck.

And what I have attempted to do with this, this offering is I've, uh, I, I've, um, interviewed 20 people who have been through their own crises and I highlight how they have chosen to turn their, um, pain into contribution, their horror into contribution.

And some of it's big, some of them have created nonprofits and then some of them have made a career change and decided to become.

Massage therapists, you know, so I try really hard to cover the whole spectrum, um, women and men.

Um, and I'm, I'm really proud of the people in the book, and I'm proud of being in this space and learning what I've learned so that I can, so I can offer this.

And I, I should say you're, you're a one three emotional projector and you're on the cross of rulership.

I think one of the things that's interesting about that is that it inherently comes with like power struggles and, um, you know, there's leadership.

Innate in that, and I think you have led yourself through all of these stages that you have been in.

Mm-hmm.

But I When you were explaining like that loss of identity, it is, I, I think that that's something that people take for granted is the fact that like, I can't go back to being Jessica before this happened.

Like, I don't even, I don't do, do you just like, not even feel like the same person?

Yeah.

And I remember when I, I, I write about this, um, I remember exactly when I came to that realization.

You know, I tried to go back to teaching, you know, and I was, I was teaching in a, you know, a title one public school.

I had a really cool teaching job.

I was like teaching outdoor education, like you couldn't have gotten any better.

And I was sitting at a stoplight coming back from the grocery store, and I, it just hit me.

I can't go back and do what I used to do because I am no longer, I have been changed on a cellular level.

Mm-hmm.

So the person I was before, some of the things are the same.

Like, yes, I still like garlic bread and you know, um, yes, I love the ocean.

Those things haven't changed, but.

My, my, my stress, um, level and tolerance has changed because of PTSD.

Mm-hmm.

Um, the, the things that I used to believe were so black and white are now very, very gray.

Um, and what I want.

Who knows, that's such a moving target all the time.

But, um, what I feel like I can give to the world has changed because I'm a mother now.

Yes.

And because I'm a person who carries around complex PTSD, um, and this experience.

And so, uh, you know, there's so much grief.

Um, and then there's probably, it's, I think it's is the stages of grief, but right, that new, that newly added stage, um, to the, the acceptance, the denial and the acceptance, um, is, is meaning.

And so when you get to a place, what I, what I really hope people understand is this, this, when you're, you're standing there and you're on the rubble of your life.

There is, you can still make something beautiful from that.

You can still create something, meaningful.

Things take the time they need to take.

Mm-hmm.

And there is no hack, there's no shortcut.

Um, but I do believe, um, that you, you can turn your pain into something purposeful.

Um, if you want to.

You don't have to, but it's an invitation.

It's a choice.

Yeah, for sure.

And I think that, that, like, that identity shift we we're all experiencing identity shifts if you're growing mm-hmm.

Um, and you went through something traumatic that probably forced you to grow into this next version of you.

You know, we think about the next version as always being like, you know, oh, it's, it's better, it's higher.

It's like.

Most of us walk through some kind of fire to get to that next version of ourselves, or we find ourselves sitting in this moment saying, I don't know why I'm not connected to everything that I've always been connected to before.

There's not always like a, you know, large scale traumatic event like you experienced, but I do think that that is a very human experience to, if you're paying attention.

I think some of us are so busy and we compartmentalize and we, we avoid and, and detach.

Yeah.

So, so we don't feel those things.

Like, I'll just stay busy.

I'll just keep going.

I'll just be, and then, you know, like your husband cheats on you or something happens and you're like, oh wait.

Yeah.

And then, then you have the identity.

So it's sometimes it's the event that forces us to change.

Well, isn't it all, I mean, I, I was just talking to my sister about this, like, why do, why does it, why is it always the big stuff that forces us to make these changes that we probably should or wanted to make?

But we wait until it's like.

Really major and I, and, and maybe that's just me.

Like I, I don't move until I'm forced to move.

You'd think I'd like start learning that lesson a little bit more quickly, but, um, I, I agree completely.

I think it's one of those things, you know, they say like, you know, it starts as a whisper, but it's so easy to ignore a whisper for sure.

And then it becomes a knock.

Yeah.

And then it becomes banging and then eventually it kicks the door down.

You know, it's your choice when you answer the call.

Yeah.

Um, and.

You know, some of them will require more courage to make a choice that maybe you don't think, why do we wait?

I think it's because sometimes we're so scared of making the wrong decision.

Yeah.

Or making the change.

What if we choose wrong?

Right.

And I think that's one of the things that people look to human design for.

And I think that's one of the things that I, I hope to correct in the thinking, which is that human design doesn't guarantee that nothing will ever be uncomfortable in your life again.

Yeah.

Um, it, in fact, it's, it's probably going to drive you into discomfort because it's gonna take you away from what you always felt was safe mm-hmm.

Or your regular mode of operation, and it's gonna drive you to something else.

Now something else might be better.

It might not look better right away, or it might cause some things to fall apart.

Mm-hmm.

Because you changed course.

And I think that that's probably why we don't listen to the whispers.

Why we don't change sooner is because we're afraid of things falling apart.

Don't rock the boat.

Yeah.

You know the devil.

I know.

Yep.

Absolutely.

And I think too, like we're afraid to trust ourselves.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Because we've been conditioned for generations.

To not to listen to the voice of reason or, you know, um, practicalities or, you know, more pragmatic or logical.

And sometimes those whispers are not logical or pragmatic at all.

Exactly.

And so what is human design helped you with?

You know, outside of napping, which I'm very happy that you're doing because there, it's not an excuse.

I'm gonna go take a nap, I'm gonna go take a nap after this prescribed naps.

Um, but, but what else has human design allowed you to do?

Has it allowed you to trust yourself?

'cause at least from the outside looking in, I know that you and I have kept in touch, but we're, we're not like talking all the time or anything like that.

But from the outside looking in, it looks like you are trusting yourself.

More.

Um, but what, what, how do, how do you, how has it changed you from your perspective, or what has it shifted for you?

Yeah.

Um, I think like from a really practical perspective, um, professionally, um, I don't.

Feel like I have to force things anymore, you know, which has, has been very liberating.

Um, and it's been, I've been practicing a lot, so I've, I've lost that, or, you know, it'll resurface every once in a while, but I don't feel like I have to make things happen.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and so there is this, I think, um, steadier trust within myself and, you know, I'm a person who's like.

Rejection is protection and I, I really believe in the universe has got my back.

And so, um, when it comes to like clients for, in, for instance, or like, um, prospective authors, you know, I'll have a call with someone, maybe they'll be very interested in working with us.

Um.

And then for whatever reason, a lot of times it's just about resources.

They decide that, you know, or you don't hear from people.

And I don't know if you deal with this, but you know, you get time ghosted or whatever.

Maybe I'll follow up once.

Um, and then I don't hear from people and I'm like, that's okay.

Like, you know, I don't need to like chase people down if it's not, it's not my, it's not my issue.

Bless and release.

Um, and the same thing with clients who can be a little sticky.

You know, I can tell like from the very beginning before we even sign a contract if it's gonna be a problem, and I'm like, I just feel much more, um.

Secure in saying, I don't think that this is a good fit, and I'm not worried about the loss of income, or, you know, the whatever else could happen.

I just trust that.

Um, all I have to do is, is show up, put, put our offerings out there, put our work out there, show up, be on podcast interviews, tell my story.

And then I really do feel, and I hope, I hope I haven't misinterpreted this, but I really do feel like it's such an easier way for me.

To operate it.

It should be, yeah, it should be.

Particularly for proje, for projectors.

What I think, um, so pleasantly surprised me about you and the way that you took to this, because you just really were like, you're like, I'm Manny Jen.

I'm like, no, you're not your projector.

And you were like, that blows my mind, but okay.

And, and you seemed to slip into, like you got rid of the podcast that you were on.

Yeah.

You cut a bunch of things.

Like you were like, this is, it seemed like you took it as permission to cut the fluff.

What a hundred percent.

I was doing all kinds of things that I didn't wanna be doing.

'cause I felt like I had to be forcing things.

People ask me all the time, in fact, somebody I have to write back on Instagram wrote me.

She was like, well how do I quit my corporate job and work three to four hours a week without like, lose, like losing all of my income?

Mm-hmm.

And it isn't about.

The three to four hours, uh, sorry, not three to four hours per week.

Three to four hours a day.

Mm-hmm.

It isn't about, I was like, yeah, how do you do that?

How do I not work at all?

Yeah.

Um, no, but like the, the three to four hours a day, it's, it, it isn't so much about like clocking that.

It's about looking at your life and saying what isn't necessary that I have made feel like I have to do.

Mm-hmm.

But that's really because of somebody else's model.

Not because I really feel like this is.

What I'm supposed to be doing.

Yeah.

And you did that without really much prompting.

Mm-hmm.

You were like, yes, I got rid of the podcast.

I remember you sent me a voicemail.

You, you were like, I just wanted you to know, this is amazing.

So I just got rid of this.

I got rid of this.

I'm only doing this, I'm just doing the publishing.

Like I'm just.

Doing the books.

That's what I want to be.

And to me that was like, that's what you wanted to be recognized for.

Like this is who I am.

And that's the most important thing for a projector is like, who do I want people to see me as?

Mm-hmm.

And then if I'm just that thing, that projection gets super strong.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And you know, you're like, I'm a survivor.

This is my story and I can help you tell your story.

And it's like, that gets to be like a super strong tractor beam.

Right.

When you're scattered and fragmented, that diminishes and you work harder to get everything.

Yes.

Did you find that people, more of the right people were finding you when?

Oh, a hundred percent.

I mean, I think too, like after, after all of that.

I did just start showing up and telling my story, particularly on, um, social media, Instagram, and everything just blew up like it was, you know, and my ordeal happened really before Instagram.

But um, you know, and then it was so cool because all I had to do was just show up, tell my story, or if I had a thought on my mind or an anecdote or whatever, and then all these women started finding me.

You know, and one of, you know, one of our offerings is we do these, we work with a cohort of women once a year, um, and, and we walk them through the memoir writing process as a group and, and we pick a theme and everybody writes, and, you know, so it's a really cool offering, but like, how do you reach 20 women at a time for, you know, to fill these spots?

And, and it was just like all you said was like, you just have to keep showing up as your authentic self.

Now the problem is if you don't know who your authentic self is.

And, and that, that's a lot of hard work.

That's a lot of digging deep.

Um, and I think I had done a lot of that work and I was primed and ready to just show up because I finally knew who I was.

I knew what I wanted to say.

Um, and, and it, and it, like you said, like.

It's growth, it's, it's evolving and so it's always changing.

And so who I was, you know, two years ago, I'm different.

And now I, you know, I'm, I'm starting to dream about other things.

Mm-hmm.

And, and I'm, it's super exciting.

Instead of like, overwhelming and making me afraid and exhausted, I'm like, oh, I can show up as that, you know.

Yeah.

And, and you know, from your lips to God's ears or to every listener's ears that you know what you said about, you had done the work, you knew who you were, you had you, you'd done, you had to, you were forced to.

We've, we've covered this.

You had to do that work.

So what that created for you was like, when human design comes in and tells you, you just have to show up as who you are and be the lighthouse.

Yes.

Go step into the spotlight, own it, and claim your space.

Right?

You were like, oh, I can do that.

I know who I am.

I know what space I wanna claim.

I'm gonna get rid of everything else.

So, you know, I, I think that some people expect human design to be this magic, like silver bullet.

And it can be when you've done a lot of other work for me, I had done a lot of work, so human design kind of clicked things into place.

Yeah.

I didn't do it as, I hadn't done as much work as you did at the time that I found it.

I was still sort of finding a lot of that, but it allowed me to find it.

But a lot of people won't go through that work, or they're disappointed when it doesn't happen instantly.

Yeah, and really the, the differentiating, the, the, the big differentiating factor right there is.

The work, right.

Have you done it already and you're coming in at, you know, one of the last chapters of the book and we're just closing it out and shifting you into like the third act?

Mm-hmm.

Or are you coming in questioning a lot and you have some soul searching to do before you can ground into these things and human design can help you do that, but it still might take you some time to Yeah.

Find that alignment.

So like, I'm curious like how often, like.

How often do people come to you that are in that state that they still need to do some of the work?

Oh, often.

Yeah.

Very often.

Yeah, because they're, they're, they're questioning a lot.

It depends on the stage that they, they are at.

But I get a lot of people who are, things haven't worked and things have been really hard and they've struggled and they're looking for human design to be kind of that framework that helps them get their footing.

And I tell them, I'm like, if you do the work, I promise you that it.

It, it can provide that for you.

Yeah.

But.

If you haven't done, if you're not willing to do the work, then I don't wanna take your money.

Uh, right.

Because it's required.

This isn't gonna work because it's required.

It's sort of like, I wanna write a book.

And it's like, well, will you write?

Yes.

You know, it's, it's, it's a path that you walk.

Exactly.

You know?

Yeah.

Um, and so I tell everybody.

Um, where can they find out more about this new book that you have coming out?

It comes out in October, right?

Is it October 27th?

Is that the date?

Yep.

Absolutely.

So October 27th.

And then you also have ways, if someone listening is a, an aspiring writer and they're looking to be published, you also help.

Women get published and published, absolutely.

Publish books.

So tell tell them about those, those two ways and, uh, of, of connecting with you.

Sure.

So, um, you can always find out more about my story and what I'm up to@jessbuchananuh.com and then, uh, soul Speak Press.

Dot com is our, uh, website for, um, publishing company.

We're a non-traditional publishing company for women who've been through something.

Now they know something and they wanna teach us something.

Um, and so follow us, so Speak Press or Jessica Buchanan on Instagram.

We're always, we've always got something going on.

Now.

We've got a riding retreat next year in Italy.

Like, I mean, there's just constantly stuff that we're putting out, so it's super fun.

Um, and I, I don't think I'd be here if it weren't for you.

So, thanks, Nicole.

Thank you.

I, I, I don't know if I deserve that much credit, but I, I really do wanna give, I please receive it.

It really has made such a huge difference in my life.

That means more to me than, than, uh, than I could even say.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and once again, the, the name of her upcoming book is How to Survive Survival, A Guide to Turning Life's Hardest Moments Into Meaningful Contribution for the World.

We will link everything up in the show notes for you so that you can get the details on that.

You can order this book, pre-order it please and um, and then stay in touch with Jess on Instagram.

She has a wonderful feed over there where you can see.

Her brand really in action.

Jesse Buchanan, um, on Instagram.

Thank you so much for being here.

Absolutely.

Thank you for the invitation and allowing just to show up.

I appreciate you and remember, in order to have an unshakeable business, you must first become an unshakeable human.

So thanks for letting us help you become unshakeable with human design.

We'll see you next time.