Thank you for pressing start on episode 82 of Underplayed KZUMS MD video game podcasts.

Today we have two secret games, a discussion with Kara from Patch magazine, and a review of our featured game blueprints.

Here on Underplayed, we review indie games of all kinds, the games with small budgets but big hearts, the lesser known experiences with imaginative ideas.

I'm Bo Po and I'm joined by another.

He got the platinum in going under.

It's one of his numerous claims to fame.

He's the OB to your IB in a cooperative game.

He runs like a pony.

He loves pepperoni.

It's the one and only Disco Cola.

What's going on?

You know, I'm full of turnips.

I don't love that very much, honestly.

Thank God, because I was getting so tired trying to find this recording studio.

Did you did you know this building has a dove coat?

Like a just like a room full of doves.

But like anyway, how are you?

I'm doing just fine, my sneaky chauffeur.

Those are references to our featured game blueprints.

And yeah, I was also having a tough time drafting this very room.

It just wouldn't show up for me.

Yes, that is our featured game today, a game that's been talked about by many people this year, in 2025, came out earlier this year and a lot of people were talking about it all at once, it seems, and we're sort of hopefully starting the second wave of popularity.

We still hopefully get to celebrate with the party.

Yeah, we're a little late, guys, but we're here talking about blueprints and it's a special episode because we have a guest today.

It's going to be Kara from Patch magazine.

Kara's a writer.

We're going to be talking to her momentarily about her work with Patch Magazine, which is a magazine I've enjoyed the last few years.

We're going to talk to Kara about her work with Patch Magazine and indie game focused Zine that comes out every month.

We will also review Blueprints alongside Kara because she picked it from our lists, which is great.

So because we have all of that going on with Kara, we're going to keep this top of the show segment pretty short.

But before we move on, there are a few very easy ways to support Underplayed.

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Thank you for listening.

Let's move on to our secret games.

Secret games.

Secret games.

I know you're playing without me.

Secret games.

Well, I'm here to tell you, baby.

Secret games.

I've been playing too.

Secret Games Secret Games is our segment where we each reveal a game we've been playing recently, and I'm going to learn what Disco Cola's been playing and what he wants to review.

Today, he's going to do the same for me, starting with you, Disco Cola.

Let the mystery be no more.

Reveal your secret game for Episode 82 of Underplayed.

My Secret Game This episode comes from the creator of instars and time developer.

Insert disc 5 and the game is called.

This game will end in 205 clicks.

Music.

What a name.

What a name.

It's quite aptly named.

It is.

I kind of see a connection already, the blueprints with a particular number going on.

Cool.

So I'm going to read the steam description because the that'll come up later.

What does a super villain do when he is forbidden from doing anything evil for the day?

Warning, this is not the type of game where you can make meaningful choices.

OK, setting our expectations accordingly.

Yeah.

So yeah, this might be the shortest game ever played for underplayed.

This isn't really a mistake either, as you might learn a little bit later, a certain game had me really strapped for time.

It wasn't my secret game.

Only one other game we're talking about did it only.

Be one other thing originally I was going to play great God Grove for the episode yeah yeah yeah.

But then they announced a physical for the Switch, so that was a very pleasant surprise and I'm I'm happy that I waited on on getting this game for now.

And this game released super recently as.

We sit down, Report.

Yeah, I just happened to see it caught my eye on blue sky, you know, so it's cool.

It was really lucky to not only see a title that promised 205 clicks, but I really liked the visual art style as well.

So I was like, all right, so that's the one.

Sign me up.

The game opens with the fictional game The Girls Royal Invite and near the end of the story of the game.

This fictional story includes a I'm going to consider it a Powerpuff Girls analog simply called The Girls, and it shows the end of their battle with Royal.

But is it happening or is it a dream or a nightmare?

Even so, Royal wakes up from the stream and after waking up, they get a message stating that no evil acts may be performed today.

Now, if you're evil, why would you even listen, right?

But we get another message drilling the point down.

But the game does offer you side quests, which in this case are simply just daily chores.

And after completing a few daily chores, Royal will begin to deconstruct the relationship between classical hero and classical villain, and recognize the meta level of how soon the game will end.

And truly and really, the game does end in 205 clicks and that is it.

So it seems very meta.

It seems like it's potentially commenting on themes from games we've talked about before, Yeah, in maybe a a shorter time span.

Yeah, it makes a point to point out freedom of choice, maybe not only necessarily for super villains, cuz like, they always lose or they're always like when they're doing their monologue, that means the episode's almost over and the girls are about to win.

And he comments as such on that.

But also there are some comments in the game that sort of allude to the censoring of LGBTQ plus peoples in media.

So there's different levels of commentary going on there.

Nice.

That's very impressive given that it is so.

Short.

It is quite short, yes, but yeah, like I said, that's that's really it for things I like.

I do love the visual identity of this game.

Everything in this game leans into the red, pink, magenta, purple and black region, and I've just been I've been into that for a few years.

So no surprise that I love how it looks.

I also love that this game really bucks pretty much all expectations.

Like I was expecting maybe some massive deeper secrets on on on what I got, but you'll be surprised by what you find coming coming in with that expectation.

And lastly, I love that a lot of very specific and very unseen people are really resonating with this game.

Like there are a lot of people, especially in the LGBTQ community that are loving this game and I'm really happy like that, that that's awesome for me.

This game does have the flip side for things that I'm not like totally on the same page with.

I don't totally resonate in the same way.

Like, I don't know.

The closest I can relate is that professionally speaking, I'm kind of young enough that people expect me to fail or be lazy.

And I can be helpful at times for sure.

So I'm like bucking expectations when I perform well.

Oh, sure.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, but otherwise Royal and I don't really have a lot in common.

Yeah.

So you're consuming a piece of media where you understand, but you don't 1 to 1 relate.

And so it's hard to fully connect.

And we've had this happen.

With this has happened.

Before all kinds of stories.

Yeah, not just this perspective.

Right.

Yeah.

Next, I do find that the music is kind of shrill.

This whole thing is a really quick experience.

And based on that principle, I am surprised at the variation of sound design.

But it I just, I don't really like how it sounds.

And honestly, that's close to most I could say about it, yeah.

Not a lot to comment on, right?

Like 30 minutes, is that, Is that how long you said it was?

No, it's not.

Not even it's, well, I probably did play it for 30 minutes because I was like, oh, surely there's something more.

And so I started it again and I was like, OK, the ending's going to be different this time, even though it told me it wouldn't be.

And so I played it three times and it was the IT was the same every time.

OK, so good to know.

But like, yeah, if you look up on on YouTube, most people are spending 14 minutes on it, OK.

And these are like people that are reading it word for word aloud.

So it can be very quick.

So in the end, I'm glad it was brief because that is the primary thing I was looking for.

But I think I needed just like a little bit more depth in general, not necessarily in story, but in gameplay.

Either way, I'm surprised at the honesty and discipline in what the game promises.

Like I said, the description says this isn't a game where you can make meaningful choices.

But what I didn't expect was to make no choices, even though that does fit thematically.

And the theme of censoring queer people's existence is done quite intelligently.

The unfortunate result, in my opinion, is that there is a pretty extreme lack of actual gameplay.

So as someone that craves at least a little bit that I I just don't think this game is for people like me.

So I give it, unfortunately a 5.5 out of 10.

Yeah.

And again, just stating that a lot of people are loving it and really resonating with it so.

Yeah, I'm looking at it on Steam and it's, even though it released less than a week ago, as we sit down again, like this episode will come out a little later, but it released in early August 2025.

It's already got over 400 reviews.

They're very positive.

Most people are, you know, enjoying it.

And sometimes, you know, this is a free game.

Sometimes that bodes well for a game's reputation as well as the length.

If it if you're super digestible and you have a very low price or it's a free to download game, that goes a long way and in your esteem for your game.

And so not to say that the positivity for the game isn't warranted, but there's very little risk in trying this out.

I think I might want to try this out if it's only 1015 minutes.

Yeah, I'd, I'd do it you.

Could do that yeah and all the all the people that I've talked to that I'm like this is what I'm playing instead of great God, grow up.

They're like, oh, big bisexual vibes.

And so if you get into big bisexual vibes, this might be your game.

I'm always interested in trying a game that shows me a perspective I don't see in every game.

So like that is immediately drawing me and just the themes here.

I would love to give this a shot knowing that it's free and that's it's overall very positive on Steam.

I do have just one question that comes to mind.

You don't have to say the significance like explain it, but does the number 205 have a significance or is does it feel arbitrary it?

Feels arbitrary to me.

Interesting.

It's kind of a kind of a head Turner, you know?

How often do we see that?

Number.

Yeah, it is a particular number.

I guess if it would have been like 2O7 that would have been like even more strange.

Two O 5 is like a nice even round 5.

So it's like there could be significance there.

I will stay though.

Something I forgot to mention is that there is one thing that makes the clicks part feel even more arbitrary is that sometimes the game progresses regardless of your input, so it's like this section of dialogue is over and so it will sometimes automatically move on to the next thing.

Not always.

OK.

So, so it can feel a little bit more passive in those moments, like you're you're on a ride, you're not participating.

Yeah.

And it's as much.

Yeah, I've.

I've had a good way to describe it.

I've had games like that too, where it feels like, oh, do I need to be here?

Like I'm here and I'm sort of, you know, at what point does it turn from a game into an experimental short film maybe.

Yeah.

Yeah, totally get that.

All right.

Well, I assume that you can only play it on PC.

This is on Linux, Mac and PC.

OK, so on desktop systems, very cool.

Well, a nice short one.

I will probably check it out soon and we'll move on to my Secret Game.

My Secret Game is one that I've talked about on our show.

But not reviewed.

But not reviewed.

I've talked about quite recently it too like your secret game and like our featured game today.

Came out this year.

Released this year, in fact quite recently.

My secret game is called Hell Clock.

I.

This phone was my fucking hell clock.

I remember you mentioning this.

Is this like the survivors like 1?

It's an action RPG.

It's more like a Diablo slash Path of Exile game.

OK, there's a lot more customization and choice and inputs that you're doing as the player compared to some other survivors likes, but it's not.

It's foremost like a dungeon crawling action RPG.

Oh.

OK, this might have been the one that I compared to Land of the Dead Gods.

Yeah, yes, it's got a style that's like that.

It released this year again quite recently.

It was developed by Rogue Snail and published by Mad Mushroom and the game synopsis from the Steam storefront reads quote.

Forge powerful builds with endless loot in this relentless combination of roguelike and ARPG.

Blast through dungeons and unleash inhuman powers in a dark fantasy twist on Brazil's War of Canutos.

End Quote.

So this game has a setting that's very particular.

It takes place during a an alternate version of a conflict that's from real world history.

And I'd like to actually move down the Steam page and quote another section from that to just describe what's going on, because I think the Steam page does a great job at this, way better than I could.

So from the Steam page further down it says quote.

In the 19th century, Kanutos became a refuge for thousands when its people defied the New Republic.

They faced brutal retaliation, leaving 25,000 dead.

Play as Pajeu, a warrior fighting to rescue the soul of the Counselor, his fallen mentor.

With each descent, time warps and your power grows as you confront the dark forces that claimed his head and trapped his soul.

End Quote.

So that kind of gives you the history and a jumping off point for what's going on.

This is an isometric action RPG dungeon crawler in the same vein as Diablo.

But I would specifically call out Diablo 3 and 4 because I've played all of those games and it's faster paced.

Like the more modern Diablo games where you're looting things, you're killing lots of monsters very quickly, looting gear and just seeing how you can create a build that just is really good at slaying monsters.

There's also that story going on.

And another game that's like this that's more modern is Path of Exile and Ath of Exile 2.

I've played the first one in that series, and this game features illustrated cutscenes of this war and your quest to rescue the soul of your mentor.

Since it takes place during a twisted version of this conflict, you will hear the story spoken through Brazilian Portuguese.

So if you're an English speaker like me, you will hear that language in this game, but there are subtitles, obviously, so you can still understand what's going on.

So I was doing a lot of that reading when the story was happening, and there are three acts in the base game.

Each act has 21 layers, and each layer only takes a moment to go through.

But when you have 21 layers and you're trying to get to the end of an act that could be a pretty solidly long run, and you're fighting demonic enemies and bosses that are spread throughout some of the layers, you really can't go slowly if you want to make progress because the titular hell clock is always running out of time.

It is a central mechanic to this game.

You get at default 7 minutes to make your way through all the layers, as many as you can, and when the clock runs out your run will die.

You also have health, and you could run out of health and die prematurely, but those are the two most common ways that a run ends, other than like beating an axe and beating the final boss on layer 21 of an axe.

There's no drawing a utility closet and.

Exactly.

Yes, that's one way.

This game doesn't have synergy, but you use so many mechanics to create a build.

You have abilities.

These are your active slots that you're using to attack and augment the fights.

I was using this ability called Repeater which allows you to shoot a handgun really fast, like a machine gun.

You can slow down and lasso enemies.

You can summon spirits the fight alongside you.

You can deal holy plague, lightning, and fire damage.

Plague element, that's a good one for me.

They're never at that.

There are lots of elements in this game.

There are tons of stats.

You have movement speed, you have evasion, you have all kinds of different stats that you can see on a page.

It gets super nerdy and you can really delve into like what your character needs to to be better, but you also create synergies by equipping gear that you find that persist between runs.

These are like a gun that you would carry into the fight or like boots or like rings and an amulets that have passive stats.

You also pick up these relics.

You have a inventory for relics that give you passive abilities, and relics will augment your abilities.

So one relic I had that I depended on a lot was turning my repeater ability into a fire damage dealing skill.

And then I would look out for relics and other items that increased my fire damage because now instead of physical damage, I'm doing fire damage.

That's just one example, but you're mixing and matching all your relics.

You also start each run as level 0 or level 1 and.

As you fight enemies, you have an experience bar that fills up and when you fill out your experience bar, you get a blessing.

And this is kind of like Hades.

This is where you get a selection of three, sometimes four different ways to upgrade the abilities that you've brought into your run.

So like you might choose one that increases your repeater damage by 40% and you can only choose so many per ability.

Then you also have trinkets.

Trinkets are items that will give you yet more passive stat increases, and trinkets reset after each run and so do the blessings.

But as you fight, you collect these things called Soul stones, which give you points for a permanent skill tree that you examine after each run.

So I say all this.

I know it's confusing.

There are tons of things that augment your run, but all of this is combining to create complexity with creating a character that just does a lot of damage.

Yeah.

So honestly, the the thing that I'm thinking of is very recent for me.

And in Iris and the Giant, there's a lot of like parallels.

It's like, OK, you get this to upgrade this permanent thing, you get this, but it's only in the run and you level up during your run, so.

So I know all that was confusing to a new player, but you get a mixture, a healthy mixture of upgrades that are particular to each run and then they are wiped.

And then also upgrades that are permanent and you can carry between your runs, but that also are constantly being swapped out by better things that you find.

So I love that balance.

Not to get into my likes too early, but I think that's what makes this game super interesting.

Later on you unlock a constellation skill tree that gives you yet more passive upgrades and that's where we get into end game progression stuff.

So you have tons of character stats that are affected and your goal is to fight your way through the three acts of the game and defeat all the demons you find and just learn more about this story that's based on this actual conflict that happened in the late 19th century.

So what I liked about this game is that I think this is so addictive.

This has the freaking addictive like action RPG sauce that I chase in games like this.

I grew up playing Diablo 2 when I was in middle school and I had a group of friends that we'd have sleepovers and just played Diablo 2 all night.

And so this is much faster pace than that.

It's more modern than that and you always feel like you are getting more powerful.

I did play this game for about 6 or 7 hours when it just had a demo.

It had a demo for Steam Necks Fest and that became my demo of the fest.

That's a chunky demo.

It lets you go to like I think layer 14 of act one, which is really considerate.

Like it gives you a good chunk of the game to play and I would just grind out finding relics and upgrading my skills in that demo for all those hours and then they let you carry that progression over into the full game when it released several weeks later.

Pro Pro Gamer.

Move.

Love that.

That's actually what made me energized to want to play the demo so much, so props to them for allowing for that.

I then put in another 11 hours or so after the full game release.

So I've put in a good 18 hours into this.

I've beaten it, and in most runs you feel yourself getting increasingly more powerful through everything you're finding.

You eventually mow down bosses in seconds that once took you minutes to beat.

The sound design is thick with lots of combat and creature sounds that I enjoy.

And then the music is, you know, I think it's tempting for a game like this to employ like, really in your face, like heavy metal music, maybe something like Hades, which we love that soundtrack, but this music feels very particular to this place.

I would.

I would prefer something that's in like, like blasphemous maybe?

Yeah, it's, it's very blasphemous, I would say.

I think it's reminiscent of that.

I also love that the style of this game is evocative of this particular place, down to the voice erformances, the character models, what characters are wearing, how they emote.

I've never played a game that evoked this particular sense of place.

It's so specific that it feels unforgettable to me.

And also the third act of this game is so surprising and ambitious with where it goes.

It's actually the the location that we go to in this game that I didn't see coming.

And my jaw dropped.

And act three of three in this game reinvested me into the story in a way where I had been occasionally caring about the story up to that point.

And then act three happened and I was like suddenly really caring about the games narrative, which is a big thing for such an action focused game to do for me.

Like I was like, hell yeah, I'm into this.

And I was paying extra close attention to what everybody was saying after that.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

So I love that the game did that in its last third or so.

I do have things that I disliked about Hell Clock.

One thing is that later into the Acts, as we get to layers like 14 onward, we can get into some grindy progression because the enemies start to get super beefy, especially the bosses.

And so you can sometimes sit there and just be hitting bosses and you're seeing their health bar just crawl downward and you might have enough abilities and skills and passives that keep you alive really well.

It's just you need to stand there shooting your gun at them for minutes on end sometimes to to get that bar down.

And I get why that's happening.

They have to, they have to make these runs last long enough and be hard enough that we don't just sail through them.

But it just feels like there's this exponent based stat thing going on where there's this imbalance of tough enemies that halt your progression just because they take so much time, not because they're actually challenging your skill a ton.

Yeah.

So it's just the the demons get beefy.

Yeah, I, I felt a little bit of that Rogue Legacy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think we see parallels to that in other rogue lights.

Organizing relics that you find can be a chore.

You will.

When you're sailing through an act, you're fighting lots of mini bosses and bosses, they'll drop relics and those relics you have to then sort of organize in your reliquary after the run.

And sometimes you spend a few minutes having to organize things.

You get just inundated sometimes.

And you can salvage them for soul stones, which help you pay for upgrades, which is cool.

But there is that upkeep step between runs where you do have to take care of that.

You also start to recognize some of the same patterns to the acts.

I'm thinking mostly about the layout of the maps.

You'll start to see a room and you'll go, oh, I've seen this room every other time I've been in this act.

So it doesn't feel as randomized as other rogue lights sometimes and load times can also be long after runs.

I was noticing that sometimes load times were like 30 seconds when you finish a run that's big and that can you know, I did 50 plus runs throughout all the acts.

So that does add up overtime.

That's a considerable amount of time.

So overall, I think hell clock is super addicting.

I can play it for hours.

I had so many just one more run sessions with this game.

I I lost sleep to this game.

I think it's addicting if you love action RPGs.

It does get grindy and tedious at points, but it's got a strong personality and sense of place.

I'm going to look forward to seeing how the road map for this thing expands.

I'm going to give this an 8.5 out of 10.

It's playable on PC.

Yeah, I don't have any questions really.

Like I can see just from watching this trailer on loop that there are a lot of systems.

And so like, just because I'm just at this moment overwhelmed with the amount of different systems, I can't really like drill down on any details.

It's kind of reminding me of blasphemous where we have our our rosary beads and our prayers and our whatever other two things there were.

So it's I'd have to touch.

It like or even like Colts of the Lamb.

Like I don't think there are one to one comparisons in with this and Colts of the lamb necessarily.

But I remember Colts of the Lamb had so many different aspects of controlling how you performed in the village and the dungeon, you know, and, and sometimes it was confusing knowing what part had what place.

And that can be the case here.

But you slowly get eased into it.

If you play, it's not going to all hit you at once.

I think the game does on board you really smoothly.

Yeah, I mean, I've I've had a lot of trouble, good trouble, most would say with like the just one more run games recently.

So I mean this for now.

I don't see how this isn't my jealous game for now, but oh wow, cool, we've still got half a season to go.

So as we see, yeah, I mean, sometime if you come over, you can, you can try out a run in Hell Clock or yeah, there's, there's a lot of videos online.

This this is a pretty popular game so far this year and people are excited to see more from the development team.

They're expanding it, they're working on content expansions for it.

So yeah, we'll see what happens with Hell Clock in the future.

So those are our secret games.

This game will end in 205 clicks and Hell Clock.

Let's move on to our discussion with Kara from Patch Magazine, this episode's special guest.

Our guest today is a talented writer with words and topics that couldn't be tighter, talking about games and developers and sounds in a handy scene you can carry around of games they're so fond from across the pond.

We're pleased to correspond with Kara from Patch Magazine.

How's it going?

That was so magical.

What an intro wow I feel so special.

Well, we feel so special having you join us.

Thank you so much for being here.

I forget every time.

Thank you so much for having me.

I forget every time that he does that.

It's incredible.

Wow.

Nothing can prepare you for that.

You hear it on the recordings from other episodes, but when you actually hear it, that is wow, I've got such whimsy now in.

My step, we want to get you started on the right foot.

So yeah, thank you so much for joining.

We're going to talk to you about Patch Magazine today, your work with Patch, some of your gaming tastes, and then we'll get into our discussion on Blueprints as well, which is the game that you chose from our list, and we're so excited to talk to you.

So Kara, for anyone who doesn't know about Patch, can you tell us what Patch is?

Of course.

So Patch Magazine is a monthly gaming magazine specializing in all things indie games.

So inside you'll find everything from reviews to interviews with developers.

You'll even find recipes taken from games that we've desperately tried to create in real life, and crafts to do with all your favorite game characters.

And it all comes neatly packaged in the post or via e-mail if you get a digital subscription for all things.

Yeah, your slice of indie gaming.

Beautiful.

Every time we have a guest here on Underplayed, we want to talk a little bit about your background.

So tell us about your background in games writing and your role at Patch.

Yeah, so my role at Patch, I'm a copy editor alongside a writer.

I've been working in games journalism for four years now.

I've spent a lot of that time freelance writing for a number of different publications, covering software and hardware and all sorts of things like reviews, news, features, basically anything I can possibly get my hands on.

In that time I've tried to and luckily I've been housed sort of permanently at Patch.

Lovely.

And yeah, you work on a tons of different projects, tons of different pieces for the Zine.

And along with that you have various roles that you're working with on the Patch team.

You have the other writers, you also have the people who put the design of the magazine together.

So can you talk a little bit more about your work with the various other roles and how you work with all the team members?

Yeah, so we are quite a small team, especially for a print publication, so we do work very tightly together.

As a copy editor, a lot of my time is spent working alongside the writers.

I go through everyone's deadlines and articles every month, just get them up to scratch, make sure that they match our style guide for the magazine.

I also work alongside our editor in chief, Jemima, to make sure that all of the issue themes and everything are unified, very ready to go for the next couple of months.

And then the social media team as well, just making sure that all of the content that's going out accurately represents the upcoming issue or if we want to get everyone excited for a certain event.

It's a very like unified effort.

Everyone is working together, so there's not like one specific team that works solo.

Like everyone is involved with every part of the planning process up until publication, and by that point we're already working on the next magazine.

So it's a constant flurry of just making sure that everything is good to go.

And I play like one part in that.

Yeah, I imagine like One Piece will affect another piece.

Like how long copy is might affect how design ends up looking for a two page piece or maybe a three page piece.

And so that constant communication is important, isn't it?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

And a lot of the editorial that people are writing and a lot of the ways the articles go, you don't know until you're writing them.

And then that can massively impact the style of the spread and the illustrations that the design team work on.

Like it all can change in such an instant, But I personally think that that's one of the most exciting parts of working for Patch 'cause it's also you never really know.

Like you have such a vague outline and then anything can happen.

That's awesome.

Do you do you find that most of the patch team, are they like writers by trade and are, you know, just happen to be game fans?

Are they game fans that are using maybe a natural skill with writing to just like become a part of the game ecosphere?

Like what?

What do you find is is the usual story there?

I think a lot of the time, not necessarily for everyone, but a lot of the time it is a game fan 1st.

And I think one thing with having spent so many years in games journalism, one of the things that is so hard about the industry is getting into it.

And without the opportunity to get into it, you can't get very far.

Like, unless you have some sort of evidence of work that you've produced, you can't then progress from that.

And I think what's so special about Patch is it is a place where people can start as well as sort of flourish.

So it's the place that you can find that voice as a games journalist without having the background of a writer.

And that's one of the things that I love most about it.

And I've loved that since I started working there.

But it is that hub of I really want to do this thing, but I don't know how to start doing it.

And having that close team of people working on this is essentially a passion project every month for us, which other people enjoy, which is great for us.

But yeah, having that like central hub of come here, see how it feels and then go from there.

And whether you like stick around then that's up to you guys.

I think that sounds very relatable to the very organization we're we're working with right here.

So I I know exactly what you're talking about there.

OK, So you talked about keeping people in touch.

Walk us through the rest of the process of getting a new issue published every single month.

So our issue planning always starts with deciding on a theme.

So every issue of Patch Magazine follows a theme, be it like pixel art games or a newest issue coming in September for example.

It's all themed around forest floor.

We've had things like nostalgia and self-care in the past, so once that theme is decided, whether that's from a game that we really want to talk about or whether that's from an idea that someone's thrown in our planning chat and we've wanted to run with that, that's essentially the first seed that is planted.

And then each month we have a brainstorm meeting, which is where all of the writers and some of the designers come together and we sit and we let people pitch their article ideas or talk about any games that they've really wanted to play that upcoming or games that have already come out, whether it's a couple of years ago or not.

And then we just go through the motions of like this would make a really good think piece, for example.

Or do you think you can make a guide from this game that's just come out?

And these meetings go on for about an hour and a half to two hours until we've got essentially the skeleton and the plan of an issue.

And then we'll have two sets of deadlines where everyone can submit their articles.

Then they'll go through the editing process and the design team will take all of the illustration briefs that they've been given.

And then it all, like over the course of a month, sort of comes together until suddenly there's a magazine in my hands and I think, oh cool, we've done it.

And then we do it all again.

Do it all again, do it 11 more times for the next year.

Yeah, Yeah.

So that's fascinating that you start with a seed like you said, you have the the the theme of the issue and then everything grows from there.

I have to imagine with anyone having the ability to pitch an idea for a theme and throw it in that chat, in that planning group, Do you have a long backlog of theme ideas at Patch?

Like, is it?

Is it just like dozens of ideas that are?

Maybe someday we could do something like this.

Absolutely.

We've got this big document that I think our design lead, Natasha, she put together and it's just the second anyone puts into this server like, oh, we could do this.

It just is thrown into this document.

And then we get together every couple of months to talk about upcoming issue themes.

And it's just like, oh, I forgot about that.

I did like we've got one sort of penciled in that's all about dinosaurs.

And I've loved dinosaurs since I was a kid.

And so if I get a chance to talk about dinosaur games, I'm the frame one.

Like ready to go.

Oh my goodness, you have so many options of pieces to do for that.

Yeah.

And it they just keep coming out.

And so sometimes all it takes is 1 game to come out or be announced.

And then it's like we have that theme idea that we've penciled in months ago that we can now bring forward to coincide with that release.

And it's, yeah, it's kind of chaotic, but it works.

No, I think the best ideas come out of that kind of chaos.

That's brilliant.

And some really popular indie games release and it's like they sort of enter the zeitgeist.

Like the game we're going to feature today, Blueprints, that is a game that everybody suddenly started talking about.

That's a huge game from this year.

And so everybody started talking about first person puzzle games.

You know, in my circles I heard lots of people talking about Blueprints, but also games that inspired it, like The Witness and other things.

And so that that is really powerful.

People see that theme of an issue and they've already been thinking about it in a way.

They've already been preparing themselves to read this issue from Patch, which is really cool.

And everyone gets sort of all of the writers get almost warned in advance, like this theme is coming up.

And it would just be a flurry of messages, like, I really want to talk about this game.

This one is like in my backlog.

I need an excuse to play it.

It can go into this theme.

And so it's like people will be planning articles that they want to write like 6 months in advance for certain themes.

And.

It's constant.

It's constant.

That's so exciting.

That's a chat group that I would love to just be a family on the wall for and to just be able to see.

Now, we've read multiple articles from you regarding sound in games.

This is something that we just see has sort of cropped up over time.

Is that one of your specialties and do you and the other Patch staff members have this interest in sound in common?

So interestingly, sound isn't actually I've got nothing to do with audio design.

I've never had anything to do with audio design or producing music for games.

It's just so important to me for any sort of experience for the game, and it creates such an atmosphere across so many genres that it's almost like the one thing that I look for as soon as I play a game.

It's like if the soundtrack is good, there is like a 90% chance I will enjoy the game more because if it's something that I go off and I listen to straight away afterwards, it's like that game has stuck with me, which I think comes across in a lot of my writing.

I always am like, oh, this soundtrack is really good.

And you'll always see my like Spotify listening history as like game soundtrack, after game soundtrack.

And I think the patch team are also aware of like the importance of sound design.

And so it does come up in conversation a lot, but I don't know if that's because people know that I always talk about soundtracks.

That could be the the thing that keeps them talking to me about it.

But I've always, I've always loved music in every possible way.

I used to play a couple instruments and I think that that's just carried across into adulthood and my writing.

Do you notice that other team members have specialties maybe or like things that it's like if this comes up in a game, like let's say if it is about pixel art, just to pull an example, if there's a game about pixel art, is there, are you like thinking like, oh, Fred's the guy that's going to write this.

He's he's the one that we talked to about this.

Absolutely.

There are games that get thrown into our Brainstorm document and I feel like every month I'm like, oh, that's definitely a Ben game.

That's definitely a pumpkin game.

That's like, Emily would love that.

Whether or not they're in the meeting, it's just like that default.

They have shown an interest in this genre in the past, or they've voiced their love for this sort of style.

And it is that, like, we don't have a sheet to explain everyone's favorite genres or styles or anything like that.

It's solely A vibe.

Vibe.

Yeah.

And that definitely happens.

That's a special form of love, I think when you look at a piece of art and it just reminds you of a person because of how they've expressed what they love to you and the rest of the team.

We do that here.

Like I'll see a game and I'll be like, oh, that's a me game.

Or I'll think that's a disco cola game.

Absolutely.

We've just done this enough that you kind of know.

Yeah.

So let's say research and Deadlight Times aren't an interest, what would you most like to write about for Patch?

Or or who might you want to interview?

This is a really good question.

I feel like the obvious answers and ones that absolutely apply to me would be concerned Ape because like, obviously Stagy Valley is such a pioneer for its genre and has set such a foundation for so many cozy indie games.

And with Haunted Chocolatier being such an anticipated game release, I would love to get into his mind and see what he's thinking.

And then I feel like Team Cherry is sort of in the same vein there.

But personally, I would really love to interview Toby Fox if I could because Undertale was such a significant game for me to play when I was younger.

I just want to pick people's brains about it and know every single thing that went into creating something like that.

And then As for the things I'd like to write, I guess it kind of, it does all depend on the issue theme.

So it's it's hard to to plan in advance.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Hey everybody, this is Bopo coming in here with an edit.

While I'm putting the episode together, just wanted to let you know that there is an outdated little discussion coming your way about Hollow Night Silk Song, where we talk about whether it's coming out in 2025.

And lo and behold, days after we recorded this episode, the release date for Hollow Night Silk Song was announced by Team Cherry, set for September 4th.

We could just delete this next section of the discussion, but we thought that it was still a charming and fun little moment, so we will keep it in.

Just keep that in mind that we didn't know this at the time and this is the nature of doing podcasts sometimes.

I will send you back now.

Speaking of Team Cherry, do you think Silk songs come in this year?

It's kind of like AI.

Do you do?

I think it is.

I'm skeptical.

They sort of dropped it into that Xbox game showcase with that handheld.

They were like, it's going to come out and Silksong was already on it.

I feel like they're just going to drop it.

It's going to be a Hades to Early Access 2.0.

They're literally just going to be like, there it is.

Here it is.

I I think when it does come that it's going to, you know, just be like, here it is, but I'm skeptical it's coming this year.

I I share your optimism, Kara, and I I believe that this is the year I've talked to other people other than Disco Cola and they're like, do you think Silk Song is coming this year?

And I'm like, yeah, I actually do.

And they don't believe me.

So it's.

You've got to stay optimistic, otherwise it simply won't release.

Yeah, and I do think Team Cherry is one of those developers that could just shadow drop it and they do just fine.

You know they they can get away with.

That I think the pessimism makes the shadow drop even better, personally.

But oh.

Sure, yeah.

This is me.

Less joy now, more joy later.

Intense joy later.

Yeah, and.

It's very like nonchalant.

If it drops and you were like it might come out, you can be like it's out.

Whereas I feel like the people that are like it's coming, I'm counting down from the days like.

Yeah, yeah.

I can't, I can't imagine the pressure just being on that small team and, and you know.

I know, yeah.

The whole world is waiting and watching.

Every single showcase is every silk song.

When Silk.

Song I I have to close the like YouTube live chat 'cause I'm just like I'm sick of it's it's all silk song.

Yeah, Haunted Chocolatier, though, that's another one that people are just really looking forward to, and it's been in development for a while.

But then we have had plenty of updates that have been like it's not coming for a while.

Yeah.

So our expectations are set.

We're not making any bets about 2025 for that one.

Now, when you look at what Patch does, how do you see Patch approaching games journalism differently from some of the more large legacy journalists entities?

I think one of the things that separates Patch from a lot of these larger scale publications is the fact that we make the magazine on the basis that we want it to sound like a conversation that you're having with a friend.

It doesn't need to be this hard hitting reporting on news and the state of the industry and all of this stuff.

It is almost as if you've walked into a cafe or a bar and your friend is gone.

Hey, have you played this game?

Oh, I played this last week.

Like you would really like it.

And here's why we sort of pride ourselves, I guess, on that feeling of it being such a close comfort.

And I think as well, at a time where games media in particular is so intense and everyone is reporting on all of these like mass layoffs and all of this stuff, it's almost that breath of remembering that the hobby is meant to be enjoyed.

It's not meant to be such a constant competition with one another to see who can play the most games this year or who's created the longest JRPG and all of this stuff.

It's just, it's designed to be just a chill approach to games media.

It definitely comes across.

I've been a reader for a little over a year and when I started subscribing, I actually went to your website and I ordered all of the backlog issues that were still in stock and I actually started back in, you know those early issues.

I couldn't get all of the early ones.

I guess I could get them digitally always, but I got all the physical ones that I could and started making my way.

I've I've read pretty much all of 2023.

I'm now have made my way into 2024, but then as I get new issues in the mail, I also read ones from this year too.

So I kind of jump back and forth and it's just been a pleasure.

And I also shared some issues with Disco, especially issues that had pieces by you in them so that he could kind of catch up as well.

Speaking of that conversation, how how do you see Patch fans interacting with your team and and how does the community shape the the magazine?

So we have a community Discord server which obviously anyone can join whether they subscribe or not.

It's just a place where people can come and talk about games, which so many people do.

I feel like I've got more game recommendations from that server than I have just looking at a showcase or like the Steam homepage, which is great because I love getting recommendations from people and hearing their opinions on it rather than trusting my instincts.

So there's always a constant conversation of people talking about the magazine or a lot of the time we take a lot of inspiration from the conversations that people are having about a certain game.

It can encourage us to talk about that in the future.

And people in particular love to share what they would like to see in the magazine, which obviously impacts the planning process because it gives us so many ideas of things that we can include that people do want to read.

And it also makes them feel slightly more connected to us because obviously we're all people at the end of the day.

And we want you to feel like we're people.

And so having that connection of like, oh, we used your idea for this issue, that really helps us feel connected to the community and also them feeling like they have an impact on the magazine, which they do.

Yeah, it's the coffee shop feeling of like walking in and getting those recommendations both shared to you and shared to the people you're talking to.

That's so cool.

And then I also, I've noticed at the end of the issues there will be basically reposts of people posting about the magazine on social media.

So posts lifted from places like Instagram, pictures of them reading the the scene right there in the back of the scene, just as a tribute to those people who are keeping up with the current issues too.

Yeah, And it's lovely because people get so creative with those photos, and even without knowing necessarily that they could end up in the magazine, they're always so excited to share these photos that they've taken.

And one example in particular that was shared in our Discord server recently is someone matched their issues that they had, their physical issues, They paired them with their cosplay wigs and took these incredibly aesthetically pleasing photos.

And I was just, I was amazed because I was like, I would never think of doing something like that.

Wow.

That's a.

That's a it was incredible, unexpected creative inspiration there.

Yeah, that's so cool.

It was really cool.

Carrie, let's talk about upcoming games.

We know you mentioned Haunted Chocolatier and we talked about Silk Song for a second, but when you look at the calendar, maybe over the next year, what games are you really looking forward to covering or maybe just playing casually?

One of the biggest ones for me is going to be Little Nightmares Three.

I love that series.

I'm so excited for this game and to see how it's executed in comparison to the last two.

Yeah, talk about, yeah, talk about a series that is like, I wish we could cover more because it's not indie, but it's like, so indie, like it has that atmosphere.

It's it's it's such a shame, but also I'm.

I'm so glad that like, more mainstream entities are like, you know what, let's just have a couple of these games with this vibe.

Yeah, definitely.

I think, yeah, one of the things that I'll always, even though it's not indie anymore, knowing that it's still got its roots in Tazi's studios is like all I need for an excuse to play it.

Similarly, I don't know when it's scheduled to release, but RE Animal, which is from some of the guys that made the original Little Nightmares game, also looks terrifying.

But I'm excited to play that.

And then things like baby steps.

And big.

Walk, which are two like walking simulator games I'm really excited for.

As if I can't just go outside and do that in real life.

And then there's one called Danchi Days, which was shared at the Wholesome Direct.

But it's about like summer in Japan, which is totally my vibe.

And you have a little Kappa companion.

And so it's already a win in my books.

Yeah, we're seeing really cool second projects or third projects from teams that made really interesting games before these.

Like Big Walk is the follow up game from House House, who made Untitled Goose Game, which we got to talk about last season on our podcast.

And yeah, it's just really cool to see these teams do these things.

Baby steps coming from the team that gave us Ape Out too.

Like I never would have expected something like this.

And it's super ambitious.

Beyond games, what are you looking forward to doing next?

Professionally, Personally, Tonight for dinner, if you haven't already eaten.

I have already eaten so I have no exciting dinner plans, but oh gosh, I don't know.

I, I feel like because everything's so quick, especially with work at the moment, everything's so fast-paced.

I'm just trying to take things one day at a time.

And so yeah, tomorrow I'll probably get up and do it all again.

I'll take my dog for a walk.

Perhaps that would.

Be good, start the next process for the next month.

Of yeah, we've just actually finished, We just finished the deadlines for our September issue.

So I think tomorrow's going to be some some proofing and making sure that everything's going through with that.

Awesome.

Good luck with finishing that issue up.

And you know, let's end this interview section by having you tell listeners where they can find PATCH and your work.

Yeah, so you can visit the Patch Magazine website if you fancy getting yourself a subscription of our monthly magazine or by following our social media.

We are at the Patch Mag on X and Instagram and just Patch Magazine on Blue Sky and TikTok.

Wonderful.

Well, Kara, thank you so much for telling us about Patch and your work and your interest in games.

It's an honor.

We're not done with you yet.

We're going to move on to our next segment with you, which is talking about Blueprints, this episode's featured game.

To The Architect, an empty blueprint represents a world of possibilities.

I give and bequeath to my grandnephew all of my right, title and interest in the house and land which.

I own.

Near Mount Holly.

A world of dreams and doorways.

The above.

Provision is contingent.

On discovering location of the 46th room of my 45.

Room State.

So Blueprints is a 2025 rogue light puzzle narrative adventure game.

There are a lot of genres you could use to describe it, I think.

It's developed by Doggy Bomb and published by Raw Fury.

The game synopsis from the Steam storefront reads quotes.

Welcome to Mount Holly, where every dawn unveils a new mystery.

Navigate through shifting corridors and ever changing chambers in this genre defying strategy puzzle adventure.

But will your unpredictable path lead you to the rumored Room 46?

So Blueprints is a first person puzzle game.

You play as 14 year old Simon Jones, who inherits a large estate in the mountains from his great uncle Herbert S Sinclair, the former Baron of the estates.

And Herbert's will states that to fulfill his right to the inheritance, Simon has to locate the 46th room in the 45 room estates.

This estate has magical properties.

Each day the floor plan and the layout of the estate is wiped clean and the rooms are built one at a time, starting from the entrance hall.

And you work your way sort of north.

And this is a game of many secrets with dozens of rooms you can build.

And along the way, you're learning about the background and legacy of your family, the people who knew them, and what goes into making this place work.

It's a lot of intrigue going on.

And the question is, can you find the 46th room, Which I think is really enticing when you hear that this place only has 45 rooms.

So that's what I would say to somebody to set up the story and setting, But the layers go deeper and deeper and deeper the more you play.

I know people who have played this game for over 100 hours.

I know people who have 100 plus days in the game.

But Disco Cola, when we look at gameplay, how would you describe what's going on interactive wise?

Yeah, in Blueprints, you're sort of in this first person 3D space.

You have access to a very slight jog.

Otherwise, most of what you can do is pick up a currency style items like coins or gems or keys or dice.

You can also move up to doors to open the door to the next room.

And when you do, you'll be given a selection of three rooms to choose from.

And whatever room you choose, if you can afford it, will be the room that gets built.

You also have what is essentially A stamina meter, so each time you enter a new room, you lose one step or you know in this case, stamina for the for the simile here.

And if you run out of steps on any given day, you will become quote exhausted and you will have to call it a day and move on to the next day regardless of what you've built next.

There are several items in the game.

If you think of them in the Rogue Light experience, they would be considered passive upgrades for the run.

My favorite examples are the shovel, which will allow you to dig up noticeable dirt spots in order to obtain items, or in some cases nothing.

You may also get a sledgehammer that allows you to break the locks on chests without spending keys on them.

And there are a few others that give you other different passive upgrades.

And the goal of the game is to select all the right rooms in the right circumstances to ultimately lead you north and reach the fabled room 46.

This is a game made by a small team, which we're seeing more and more of in the indie space.

This game is the brainchild of game director Tonda Ross, who worked on the game for quite a few years, and it was inspired by all kinds of puzzle formats.

Games like Gone Home and The Witness, but also things like picture books that you might flip through to solve a puzzle.

All kinds of formats went into the inspiration for this.

Now, Kara, when you looked at our giant lists of featured game ideas, this is one of the ones that stuck out to you.

You put it in your short list, and then we decided to pick that one because it's a big game this year.

But when you first looked at the list, what stuck out about Blueprints and why did you pick it?

Interestingly, it's really not a genre that I would usually go for, mostly because as soon as anything requires any sort of strategy, my brain can't handle it.

And I knew that this would really challenge me.

But because of how many people I heard talking about it as you sent the list to me, it felt like an appropriate enough challenge to sort of share with other people.

Because I know that it's going to cause a lot of discussion as well, because the way that it's structured is everyone has a different experience.

And I find that so fascinating because I immediately want to know why you approached it that way or what made you go for that room over this room and like why we did things so differently.

And I just feel like it's rare that you have a game that can cause such a discussion.

And so it just, I was immediately like, I have to play this and see what all the fuss is about.

You know, Bopo told me, or I heard secondhand.

How many in game days it took him to reach room 46?

And I was just like, excuse me, what?

And so it's it's a very different experience from what I had.

So yeah, that's I wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment.

I love games that allow each of us to have a different experience too.

That's always something I look for in indie games.

And I would say like beyond your classic genre classifications like adventure, RPG, simulation, etcetera, I look for games that give us a particular experience to the person playing.

And I actually brought my notes today that I, I found a notebook that I could dedicate to blueprints.

And so I might flip through this here and there.

This will be a good.

At least five full pages I'm seeing from here.

This this will be some good.

ASMR.

ASMR soundscape layers going on here.

But as I look through this, it's not only my road map for getting through the game, but it also tells my story of what I learned and what was important to me.

And so, like, I could look at your notes, Kara.

I could look at discos notes and kind of understand a little bit about how your mind thinks and also about the luck that you got or didn't get.

Yeah.

So I think that's super interesting.

And then if you don't mind going into more general thoughts on the game after playing it.

Yeah, I just feel like it is such a genius way to do it because in a way it's so linear, but also it's so overwhelmingly open.

And you really have to like expect the unexpected because you can go in and one day be like, this is it, I'm going straight to the the antechamber.

Like I've got the route down.

And then one single dead end can just throw off your whole your whole track and you just don't know where that's going to come in.

You don't know what you're going to end up with.

It's a perfect example of being so frustrated at a game, but you just have to keep playing it.

And I don't love that feeling, but there is something about blueprints which makes you have to love that feeling.

Yeah, you have to become comfortable with one of the best friends of your life suddenly ending in a few selections of rooms.

And I was actually watching a friend play it on Twitch today and they were having one of the best runs.

And then they got dead ends and they couldn't get to where they wanted to go.

They were, they were super disappointed.

But then they realized I learned a lot today and they listed all the things they learned.

And so that's how I tried to see the failure too.

Is like, what can I salvage from this failure?

I, I think that's kind of a mindset thing that this game teaches you or reminds you of.

And it's something that I didn't pick up immediately, but over time that ended up shaping my journey.

Yeah, absolutely.

The only dislike I had is I felt like it was a personal attack every time I was getting close to the end and there was a dead end room.

And one of the things that I love so much about it but I also absolutely despise is the fact you can't back out of a decision.

As soon as you've interacted with the door you are locked in.

You can't be like, actually, I'm going to see if I walk away and go to a different place, if I can get different rooms because you just have to pick.

And it's it's always in those instances that you are given the worst set of blueprints to pick from.

Yeah, that's so relatable.

I had so many times where I just had to make a decision.

And when you get a bad selection, you kind of already foresee your your doom a little bit.

It's like I, I know that this is this spells the end for me.

It's OK.

I'll just, you know, I got to pick.

Something I have AI have a very specific example, try to remind me to share it later because I don't think it's in my notes but it's for sure I quit after that one.

So, any more overall thoughts or Are you ready to assign a score to the game out of 10?

I think there's there's so much that I want to say, but also it is one of those games where you have to play it to understand because no matter what you hear other people say and talk about their success or their failures in their runs, you don't fully appreciate what is going on until you play it for yourself.

Yeah.

I would agree with that.

What would you score blueprints out of 10?

I would give it an 8 straight off the bat.

I don't think it deserves any higher just because it took me so long to figure out things that should have taken a lot less time.

Yeah, and we will talk about our journeys and our discoveries, maybe tips for new players if you have those in a little bit.

But first I want to hear from Disco Cola on what he thought of blueprints.

Yeah, I share a lot of cares sentiments there, particularly in the frustration realm.

But I'll, I'll, I'll start off with things that I did like, and I didn't originally write this down, but just talking about the setup today, I really appreciate that this game sets almost a literal North Star for us in the Anta Chamber.

It puts it right on the map and you know, OK, the ultimate goal is to get here.

I have a lot of room to explore along the way, but I definitely need to get to the Anta Chamber and that's the North Star 4 room 46.

How do I get to room 46?

Well, I'll find out when I get to the antechamber, but that's that's the North star and it's always there on the map.

And then you get a little bit more of that when you find the foundation finally as well.

And so that that's a a semi north star as well.

So I appreciate that visually.

I like the thick, bold painters lines in the setting of the game.

It makes everything really attractive and it's an art style I've seen before, but usually in more, not necessarily 2D games.

But I haven't seen it in the first person experience.

And so I really appreciate the art style in the sense and it, it really uses colors, but they're not bold, they feel matte sort of, if that makes sense.

And so it's it's just really attractive.

I like when the music changes.

It makes me feel like I'm on to something.

Usually I'm not, maybe I am and I don't know it, but it's still a nice feeling when that that music changes in a dramatic way.

I love all the little synergies that rooms have.

I love getting loads of green rooms and just and just digging it.

And I love going to the Observatory.

One time I went in there with like the handheld telescope and I earned double buffs when I had like 46 stars unlocked.

There's a handheld telescope.

There's a handheld telescope you can find in this game.

You can make it.

I didn't make it, but I found it, yeah.

Right there, that highlights how your experience just in that one moment.

It's so different than mine.

I mean, if I have the an experience that was as long as mine, I'm bound to run into maybe a lot more stuff than you might have.

But I when I did that, I had like any apple granting me 8 extra steps and that's huge.

And then if I find The Secret Garden, that's like spreading even more apples around.

So there are a lot of cool synergies in this game and I love when the luck has those working together.

This is similar to other games I've played in the very like very broad strokes, but I've never played a game quite like this.

I've never like built a house as I'm exploring it while also having to manage all of these resources and also stamina.

I think this game is just very creative and it's surprising that no one has really come up with something like this yet, as far as I know.

You know, you've talked about some inspirations, but.

Yeah, inspirations, definitely.

But I mean, this game was worked on for the better part of a decade.

I mean, I think for something this ambitious and this grand and scale and ideas and lore and layers, I think it would take humans a long time to come up with this, you know, even if it's a small team.

So there's that too.

I mean, this is just a few people making this game, so that's understandable, I think.

And it would take so long.

I mean, think about animal well and Billy Basso, that was like 7-8 years as well, yeah.

Yeah, I mentioned it, but I love digging.

I love cracking chests.

I think finding items is really fun and just general.

Most of the time it is overall, it's just super fun to play.

It has that one more try thing.

There were several nights where I was like up until almost 4 because I was just like, no, just one more, I can do it.

This time.

If I can just find the green room, I know I can do it.

But so it has that one more one more try thing.

As far as things I don't like, there's a massive reliance on randomness.

You can get screwed really quickly.

Sometimes you can get screwed right at the finish line.

I had one run where I had the a room called the ballroom.

So when you walk into the ballroom it will automatically set your gems to two, which is a a nerf if you have a ton of gems, but it's a buff if you have no gems.

And I was right next to the antechamber.

I was picking a room that would go up and to the right and into the door that I already unlocked.

The only option that got me there was a room that costed gems.

And so back to Kara's point, when you get to that door, you can't back out.

Be like, oh just let me go to the ballroom real quick so I can get the gems I need.

Now that I know what I need, I can now use my knowledge of the rest of the house to go find the thing.

But you but you don't get that chance.

And I it was like 3:30 in the morning and I was so mad and I took my sleeping pill and I went to bed 'cause I was just so pissed off.

There is meta progression in this game, but I find it to be really slow coming.

It took me forever to find access to the Westgate or whatever.

The finding allowances can be strange.

You can drain the well, but like, you know, how soon are you going to get to the room that drains the well?

And so there's a lot going on that meta progression wise that is nice once you find it, but it's it's slow coming.

It's again relying on that randomness.

So you don't really know what's going to happen.

There are several puzzles that I find extremely obtuse and I don't even begin to know where to find the clues for that.

Other things that I think are clues to things are just decoration and I'm just like, I'm looking too deeply at some things but not looking deeply enough in other areas.

And I, I just, I don't know, like what the pattern is for things that are important, if that makes sense.

It's hard to know that sometimes things are pretty straightforward.

Other times things there are secrets hiding right in Plainview and you, you walk by them 100 times and you don't realize it exactly.

Other times you have a suspicion and maybe that doesn't lead anywhere.

It's just the visual style.

Right, and I know that this is probably A+ on Bopo's list, but for me, I know that there's like this massive lore and story, especially with like lineage and this I don't royalty.

I guess I don't really care to learn it.

I got what I needed from the coin operated fortune teller guy.

That's all I care to learn as far as that's concerned.

And you know, I'll, I'll mention this right now.

The game ended up taking me like 33 hours just to reach room 46.

And so my last complaint is that this game did eventually.

Even though it was fun, it did eventually overstay its welcome for me and I spent way too long on this.

But Blueprints is most certainly a pioneer in what I'm sure will be the next hot roguelite subgenre.

It has the potential to have a balatro effect and giving us a bunch of different games just like it's.

I think it's very creative and while I am playing it, I do get sucked in.

However, many of the puzzles rely on information from other areas.

Things that seem like clues might be clues, and others are just mundane objects.

So in a game that has that great amount of randomness and dead ends, I find that puzzle philosophy kind of frustrating.

Blueprints overstate its welcome.

Nevertheless, it's quite enjoyable and I get that one more try thing because of that and that goes a long way.

I give this a 7.5 out of 10.

OK, nice.

So kind of in the same neighborhood as Cara as far as score.

And also like as I hear the complaints about the randomization and just not getting the luck or maybe having good luck and then it's all ended in an instance, I think that's something you 2 have in common, right?

Definitely, yeah.

So I'll go into my brief thoughts.

This game continues to fill my every waking thoughts since I finished it.

I love this a lot more than I thought I would.

As some background, I first played the demo for this during Esteem Next Fest, I think last year, I want to say it was in 2024.

And I remember not really getting it.

Like I understood the concept.

I understood that you're building this estate room by room and that you have a certain number of steps and that you find gems and keys and coins and things like that.

But in a demo situation, I just didn't understand the appeal.

And I was like, I'm not sure if this will hit for people.

And then it really hit for people.

People popped off for blueprints.

So I was like, interesting, Maybe I just didn't get it.

Maybe I will never get it.

And I am actually really surprised to share that I super dig this game.

I think this is a game where almost anything feels possible, from the story and the lore to what you can discover, to what you feel like you may never discover.

And my lists for that latter part there, it's very long for things I know I'll never discover.

Like I have a laundry list of things that I have an inkling about, but I don't know how to explore them without outside help.

And that will kind of turn into one of my complaints for sure.

But I think this has a very alluring mixture of things I love in games.

Intrigue, puzzle solving, strategy, emotional depth.

I especially love the atmosphere, which I think carries a lot of that emotional depth.

I think this is creepy, but not scary.

That's a feeling that I love seeing in games.

I think it's got this mature, slow moving, gloomy feeling, which can be a heavy feeling to be absorbed into, but that's a really particular mood that I love chasing.

I love the soundtrack in this game.

It's full of emotional moments that will coincide with these goosebump inducing discoveries.

There's something with the garage that leads you to a place and the music that hits there, for instance, is one of my favorite moments from this game.

And the song that plays will play every time you take that route.

And sometimes I'll go out of my way just to open the garage to be able to hear the music.

So I've listened to the soundtrack a bunch on my phone.

I, I love the music in this game.

I run into some dislikes as well.

A few runs died so suddenly due to bad luck.

That's something that gets easier with experience because you find permanent upgrades, you can upgrade rooms to give you more things.

You can sort of learn what the best strategy is for tackling the house, but you have to struggle to get there.

And the struggle can be frustrating when those runs and prematurely.

I had plenty of those.

Some things feel impossibly out of reach without looking things up, which isn't my favorites.

And the deeper layers that Disco referred to do seem really inaccessible.

And I do think that's kind of frustrating.

But when I read up about the game since finishing it, I think the lore and stuff, the story is super ambitious.

I just don't know how to learn all of it myself.

But I appreciate it more than I enjoy actively seeking it out, if that makes sense.

So I think it's a stunning achievement this game, it's one of the most ambitious pieces of media I've interacted with.

I am going to give it a 9.5.

Yes, I did.

I did not expect to love it this much.

And I kind of want to go back to it if I have time this season.

We have other games to play, but I want to get in there and I I just want to do the next layer of discovery, the next set of steps to get me something new and see where that takes me.

You know, I'm still with you.

Like, like I said, it has that one more try.

I still want to keep playing like Rogue Legacy, and I still want to complete the card collection, Iris and the Giant.

But, you know, so I'm with you.

Like, I want to finish getting all the red envelopes.

Like that's my next thing.

I think if I did that, I would feel full.

Yeah, because I've only got a couple more to get.

I just don't have no clue No clue where they are.

So for Kara, I'm curious what impact, if any, has blueprints had on the rest of the patch team members?

I know you said that this is a game where you can interact with people, ask about people's experiences, compare them to your own.

Have you had that experience with your team members?

Interestingly, it took a little while for it to hit with Patch.

And I don't know if that's because obviously we had so much else going on when it launched or if people were just slowly making their own way through it.

But it did spur a lot of conversations where I think two members of our team, Vijay and Ben, it really like hit with them and they were just chatting about it for I couldn't even tell you how long.

It was just like message after message of them sort of discussing their own like approach and what they thought, what they thought of this take on sort of a strategy based puzzle game.

Because it is it is unlike a lot of things I've played in that same vein.

And I know that they felt that and I didn't engage with a lot of it because it took me a while to get a lot of the core things that I should have got.

And I also didn't want to spoil it for anyone else that wanted to play it.

But I saw the same sort of conversation in the community discord that I spoke to you guys about earlier.

All these people were like, I'm playing blueprints.

And then you wouldn't hear from them for a bit.

And then they'd message and be like, I finished blueprints.

And then it would be like other people saying, oh, what did you think?

Did you, you know, go into this room, How did you solve this puzzle and stuff like that?

And I think that impact of people basically go into hibernation when they first play it because it's proper, like curtains closed, like mind map notation of how do I solve this?

And then as soon as people are out of it, I've seen them be like, Oh yeah, I did this and then I did this, which is really sweet.

So it has had that, like, I need to play something else.

That feels like this impact for a few members of the core Patch team, but I think it has also had that wider impact on the community of readers for us who have been openly discussing it with other people.

It's a difficult game to describe and to to discuss with people because like you said, everybody has a different journey of discovery.

And I didn't play for like 33 hours like disco, but I played for a good at least 20, you know, 20 to 30 or something do.

You want to tell the people what day you got to room 46?

I think it was day 2121.

It took me like upwards of 50 I swear.

I was at 64.

But I've talked to someone who did it on day like 120 and other people have did it on day 80 and 90.

That makes.

Me feel a bit better.

You're, I think, I think if you weren't getting to the antechamber and then room 46, you were learning a lot and you were finding items that I still haven't seen, you know, so I still haven't found the telescope.

I haven't been to The Secret Garden.

I I don't know how to get in there.

Isn't that crazy?

I mean, because you've probably been there a few times.

Been there a few times, yeah.

I have no idea.

Like I have the key but I don't know where to use it.

I don't know if it's a room that has a door.

I don't know if I'm supposed to use it in a certain like part of the house.

I don't, I just.

Don't tell you after the recording.

Well, I guess I could keep trying things, but it might be better to just learn from you.

But yeah, it is one of those games where you want to go into hiding, you want to go off the grid a little bit.

That was my experience as well.

I started streaming it, and then I realized if I keep streaming this just with the added time that comes along with streaming a game on Twitch, you're reading chat, you're taking breaks, you generally play the game slower.

I know I have to play this off stream, but I still want to finish the game on stream.

And so I played it on stream and then I played it off stream is like my homework.

And that's where I learned 80% of what I know about this game.

And then I came back the next stream and it was like I was a different person.

I was like, you know, it's it's like I I went on vacation and not my vacation was blueprints.

I finished the game or I got credits if you will in that next one.

So there's a lot of rooms, at least 64 of them.

What?

Kara, we'll start with you.

What's your favorite and least favorite room?

So my least favorite straight off the bat is the billiard room because it's got the dartboard puzzle in.

And this is so embarrassing to admit, but I am terrible with numbers.

I mean, I am a writer.

So that's my first mistake is trying to do anything math and space.

But this puzzle had me perplexed.

I must have been sat in front of it for an hour.

Just like how do these colours correspond to these numbers?

What?

How is this making any sense to anyone trying to solve this right now?

And I was like just clicking.

I was just like if I just click it will solve itself.

Yeah, that's why I did the first one.

I.

Did that?

I think all three of us did that.

Yeah.

It doesn't work.

You don't know the rules.

Doesn't work.

There are ways to learn the rules, but you likely have not encountered that that place because it's rarer, at least the place I know.

And yeah, you just have to do trial and error to figure it out.

I am curious as a follow up question, similar room is the parlor room where you have the word puzzle.

You have the three boxes with the gems inside.

Did you identify with that kind of puzzle more because you're.

Loved that, loved that.

I think that was actually the first room I ever unlocked.

And I walked in and I looked at this puzzle and I was just like, Oh, well, it's obviously that box.

And so every time it came up as one of my drafts, I was like, we've won.

This is a huge win for me.

And it was, it could be anywhere on the grid.

And I would just feel like, oh, we've done it, guys.

We've done it.

We've beaten blueprints.

Amazing.

Nowhere near close to the end.

But it was just that satisfaction of I know what I'm doing here.

I just walk in, solve this Riddle and I'm done.

I'm out.

That was my get a.

Little treat for it.

That was my first room as well and I, you know, passed it the first couple times, but there were several times where I just was like not clicking with it.

Yeah, it gets harder the more you draft it, I found out.

I think I thought it was like harder the further north you are.

I thought that at first too, but it actually gets harder every time you solve it or every time you draft it.

Interesting.

But I was able to upgrade the parlor.

There's a way to upgrade rooms, and I chose the upgrade where you get 2 winding keys instead of 1.

So now I've got a better chance.

I've got a two out of three chance of even if I just blindly try to open these boxes, I have a two out of three chance of getting those.

So yeah, that that did come in handy one time because I misunderstood the Riddle.

OK, Yeah.

Least favorite Kara or sorry, you said that was your least What is your favorite?

I think this is such an obvious choice, but the hallway is just so like versatile.

And I know that sometimes you walk in and it's like the room that you actually need is locked and you can't get through it.

But most of the time it just sends you in the direction that you need to go.

And it just feels like such an obvious choice.

And so I just love it by default, but I also really like, I can't remember the name of it, but the the dark room where it's the one where you develop photos.

That's what the dark room?

Yeah, that's what it's called, yeah.

Whoa, big brain.

I'm so clever.

That room for some reason, even though it's like not particularly helpful because you walk in and the lights go off.

But I just loved it.

Every time I could pull it up, I'd be like excellent.

So it was like barely useful.

I couldn't see where I was going and I just had to like close my eyes and try and unlock every door.

But I just absolutely loved it.

It felt so like like being in a horror movie and all of the lights in the house get turned off and you have to just find your way out.

Oh, it's it is scary that first time you don't expect those lights to go off.

And that's the only room to my knowledge, where that happens.

And it's just going to show how each room has its own like special identity and the quirks that make each room special.

I would say some of my favorite rooms are the garage leading out to the path, mostly because of that, that music transition.

And just I remember that being the first moment in my experience where I realized, oh, this is this expands a little bit more outside of the confines that I originally understood.

And so that's where my understanding started to grow about what was going on.

So it was important to me for a couple reasons.

One, just the artistic beauty of going to that place and hearing that music, but then also gaining that deeper understanding of of the boundaries.

And then also I really like the shelter because the shelter, if you draft that outside the house, that allows you to draft some red rooms without the negative effects of those red rooms.

And I, we like avoiding red rooms, at least in my house, because they can really put a damper on your run.

And so I can draft then a Chapel without worrying about losing money, and I can draft and archives without losing some of my floor plan options when I expand from there.

But jumping off of what you said, Kara, I also love a hallway.

In fact, almost any orange room.

When I'm going into a secret closet and I get to choose what kind of room I draft from that secret closet, I'm pretty much always choosing an orange.

Interesting.

Yeah, I love hallways.

I'm always choosing green unless I really need to buy some food.

Interesting.

So are the green rooms some of your favorite?

So generally, yes, just because I get to dig and I'm pretty much all of them if I have the shovel, so.

You love the shovel.

You love digging?

I love the shovel.

It's like random chance but also you know the green rooms all support each other.

Like 1 green room will spread gems to all the other green rooms.

Great.

Synergy.

Green rooms are great so I would say those tend to be some of my favorites.

I'm trying to think if I have a very specific favorite.

I mean the the rumpus room is a nice like resting spot and usually gives you quite a lot of gold.

And that's where you talk to the great Alzara, which again, another cinematic moment.

Every time you get to do that, the music just arrests me.

I love anytime we get to go in there.

I only got to go in there twice.

Yeah, I went in there.

I saw all all Zara scenes, so I've been in there a few times.

I don't know if I would call that my favorite.

I do want to point out that hallway was one of the rooms I got to upgrade and it upgraded to the point where anytime I drafted it, it would then be in my pool for tomorrow.

So like pretty much every run I'm drafting at least 4 hallways at some point.

That was a that was a great upgrade for sure.

And that was like my first one and my best one throughout the whole thing.

I think the shelter's nice.

I don't know if I would call it a favorite.

There is one that you can draft outside that adds more dig spots.

I don't always pick it because it's like I don't even know if I'm going to get the shovel this time, But any time I do pick it and I do get the shovel, I'm I'm on top of the world baby rooms.

I hate mostly red rooms, specifically the what is it the weight room, the one that causes you to lose like half of your steps.

So if you don't have the shelter and you draft that, that's just like, well, what do I do now?

I guess I'll just look for a couple of secrets and hope for the best.

Oh, I know.

The dining room is a favorite.

I love the dining room.

I love the dining room.

That's good.

Where you get the meal.

Yeah, that saves me many a times.

Yeah.

But yeah, at least favorites the weight room and I I kind of hate the breaker box cuz it's like it's very specific.

It is helpful in like it's only good use is to help with two other rooms that maybe you won't even draft.

So I kind of hate getting the breaker because it's a dead end and it's just like, well, maybe I'll get these other rooms later.

Yeah, the so the breaker box room I didn't understand at first, but that was actually a key to unlocking something I think you haven't seen yet, maybe for me.

But then there's also something with it that I don't understand yet, so that's exciting.

Like, I know that I'm not done with that room yet, so I don't know what's going on there.

I wish I was done with that room.

Yeah, you're never done with the breaker box room.

I didn't share my least favorites, but I I point to some red rooms as well.

I point to the furnace specifically.

That makes red rooms more common and that was my downfall.

A few times drafting that I I remember drafting the furnace and then I had one crucial point, my only point in my floor plan where I could expand and it gave me 3 red.

So I'm like I'm picking something terrible no matter what.

And then also the archives.

I just don't like losing out on one of my options and not being able to see it.

I have to blindly pick and that's not fun.

And that's that ended my run once or twice.

Along these lines, what were some puzzles that perplexed us?

Kara, I know you talked about the billiard room.

Are there any larger mysteries that you still have questions about?

Or maybe you figured something out, but it was a little bit challenging to get there.

I had an It's not necessarily a puzzle, it's just a massive stroke of luck.

But in one of my rooms I drafted, I think it might.

I might call it the wrong name, but it was something like the Grand Hallway or like the Great Hall.

I don't.

Know.

Yeah, I drafted that and it's, I believe it's 6 doors and they're all locked and I drafted it when I was like, where have I ended up?

This is the back rooms like.

How do I know which one?

I need to go and I just like swung up to this one door and just unlocked it.

As I unlocked it, it opened and there was a lever in there.

And I thought for some reason, because it was the first time I'd encountered it, I was just like, oh, every room must have one.

And then that I didn't.

That wasn't how I like ended my experience at the game.

That was just one run.

That wasn't like my grand finish because I had no concept of what this room was.

I was just like, oh, cool, pulled the lever and then ran out of steps.

And then I was chatting to someone about it and I was like, oh, that room with all the six doors.

What what did the lever that you pulled unlock?

And they were like, what lever?

Oh, I was literally like, what do you mean?

What do you mean?

What lever?

What door did you unlock?

And they said whichever one, obviously it's different every run.

But I said, oh, I just walked in and unlocked this door and it had a lever in.

And they were like, you're kidding.

Like that's literally how you can do one of these doors.

And I was just like.

That's amazing.

And I I didn't find the Great Hall for a while.

I went all the way up north a couple times.

I was like how do I open these doors?

And then the first time I found the Great Hall, I had the metal detector and I was like, well, I don't know which of these doors to unlock.

I only have like 2 keys.

But the doors on the sides were interesting to me and the metal detector was beeping next to some doors and not beeping next to others.

So I was like, interesting.

So if I go next to a door and my metal detector is beeping, there's at least something back there.

It could be coins, it could be a key or something.

So I went to one of the corners where it was beeping and I opened that door and that had the lever in it.

And when I saw the lever, by that point I knew that I needed to find levers.

I just didn't know where they were.

So that was a magical moment for me.

So 2 magical moments about the same place but slightly different depending on the context of what you've found or just the luck that you had in that moment of which one to open.

That is so cool.

I love that.

Yeah, that was a another magical moment that I think back to disco.

Do you have any puzzles that?

So I have one very specific one that caused a lot of frustration and it's in the shelter.

There is a time lock safe and what the solution ultimately comes down to setting a date and time.

And I did it.

And from everything I read, I was doing it correctly and I just kept waiting and waiting.

And every day I drew the shelter, I would try again.

Sometimes I would set this thing and it wouldn't work the way I was promised online.

And I would turn off my PlayStation, turn it back on and start the day over and get the shelter again and try it again.

And I just, I kept going after it because at this point, I don't understand the step that we have to take before getting to room 46.

Like I don't understand what ultimately gets us to room 46.

So what I'm trying to do is collect all the red envelopes because I think that's going to lead me to an answer.

And so I'm just like stuck on this stupid time lock safe.

And then while I'm running to the Discord to just like, anger, ask my question, smashing my keyboard, someone's telling me like, no, you're doing it right.

And then I'm just standing there waiting for responses to come in and it just opens while I'm sitting there.

So I'm like.

Just needed to wait a little bit more.

But it was like, oh, it didn't.

It didn't activate the way.

It still didn't activate the way I was prom.

Like it's the time is not accurate in a way that I think it should be, I guess.

But I did ultimately get in there, yeah.

There's something with in game time in this, in blueprints that's you definitely know, like what time it is.

You can narrow down, you can deduce what date it is, but when it comes to actually putting in that time and then waiting, it's kind of mysterious because you don't, you lose track of the time.

Well, and I haven't done it yet even like choosing the date is like the part that trips most people up because like if I say it, it spoils the puzzle.

But.

And then like anytime there is a locked safe, like if I enter the room maybe for the 4th or 5th time and I still haven't figured out how to find the combination, I just look it up online 'cause I'm just like I have no idea where to look.

Yeah, I think you've given ample effort at that point.

I would say what perplexed me was the puzzle with the pictures on the walls, because I figured out what was going on with it, but I was attributing the pictures to the rooms.

And I just thought these two pictures will always be in the hallway and they'll always be in the pantry this way.

But then the next run, I'd draft those same rooms and it was different pictures.

So I was like, wait, so then what does that mean?

And I won't spoil this, but there's information that we get from those pictures and it applies the same way to everybody's laythrough.

I just was attributing that information to the locations that I found them in, not another way that's kind of similar.

And those I'm.

Dancing around what it is.

Those pictures are like those pictures and the like sketchings that will be like on a bulletin board.

That's a whole different language to me that I don't even know how to translate.

Yeah, so there's that's something I wrote about in my notebook.

And yeah, I guess if we go into our habits on approaching the game and how they evolved over time, I definitely just started by writing down a list of all the rooms and then just information that I learned.

I noticed commonalities, like some had chess pieces.

I might notice that there are certain number of candlesticks.

I would just write that down because I what if it's useful at some point?

So is that kind of what you did, what you both did?

Did you write notes and then found that you were changing your style of note taking as you went?

I was a total brute when I started playing.

I was just like, I'm just going to go and just aim in the general direction I need to go and hope for the best.

And it took me a while to be like, I should be writing something down.

Like it warns you you should probably write something down.

And I was just, I'm not going to do that.

I'm not going to do that because why would I need to?

Yeah, you're a writer though, I know.

It's literally my trade.

And I just thought, no, I can do this.

And then all of a sudden I was questioning everything.

I was like, the way that that door is on its hinges, like that has to be the answer to some puzzle.

Like every room I went in, I was questioning like, this has to link to something.

And it ended up just being this frantic scribbling of notes that make no sense if you read them back now.

But it was like, this painting is at this angle in this room, and the table has this on during my like, fifth day or like something like that.

And the something that Blueprints does so well is it really makes you think every single thing is a piece of the puzzle.

And what's so good about it is it's not.

Sometimes it is.

And then sometimes you'll be staring out of this window or like into a mirror and be like something's going to change any second now and it won't.

And you'll look like a fool and you'll feel like a clown for the rest of the time he's been playing here.

And so I learnt very quickly after I'd started taking notes, like I should have been doing this from the beginning.

The game does condition you to look for clues even when there aren't clues.

And so it always feels to me like a worthwhile thing to take those notes.

But you also learn over time that you're going to waste time taking notes at a certain point because, yeah, it's the game invites you to learn about the mysteries, but also I think to just appreciate the details and to appreciate the the texture of the world.

A texture's not always going to give you the answers, unfortunately.

But that's another reason I like it.

Oddly, it sounds like a complaint, but for me, it's, I think it's just a really thoughtful game.

I think the game knows the ways that it's mysterious and the ways that it sort of leads you astray.

I think it's very self aware too.

Like I can kind of tell that they know.

But yeah, I, I was noting the quantities of things in rooms.

I was listing learnings about the people.

So we find notes about a driver, like a a chaperone, A chauffeur, if you will.

We find out about the different people who lived in that in the Manor.

So I thought that that stuff was really important, and I think it is.

But to finish the game, I don't know that you need to have a deep understanding of the family tree.

I sure don't.

Yeah, but that's another layer that I want to learn more about.

But did your learning change over time?

So for pretty much the whole game, I was taking a whole bunch of screenshots on PlayStation.

So which is not a good way to approach that because my thinking was I will capture all of the details, and even if there's details in this picture that I don't think are important, I can go back to the picture and see that.

However, to access your screenshots on PlayStation, you except for like your 15 most recent ones, you have to like close down the game.

So it's not not a useful way to approach the game.

So when that failed, I was also at the point where I understood the importance of the leavers.

I'll just say.

And I was like, OK, I know where all of the leavers are and I know what rooms I need to get and I, you know, know how to do the best that I can do with the luck that I'm given.

And at that point, I wasn't taking any notes anymore because it was just about getting to the end.

I was like, I noticed the chess pieces and I was just like, that's a different puzzle for a different day.

It doesn't get me to where I need to go, so I don't care.

But what I did change that I found most important was how I approached drafting rooms because what I was doing from the start was kind of like sneaking my way as I got to a new rank, going left and right as far as I can and trying to get as many rooms as possible.

And eventually what I did was start exploring paths N pretty much as far as I can take them unless I think I need to be able to go back S for resources.

And so if I get to a point where I'm like maybe going too far north to where where I might run out of resources and I have access to maybe more resources down South.

So that's sort of the biggest change that I had in in approaching the game that's.

Very interesting.

I actually had a an opposite approach.

I would try to just beeline it north as much as I could and you know, jumping off to the sides here and there as I needed to.

But the more I played the game, the more I realized, oh, if you stay in the lower ranks, you're going to have less locked doors, and those are just going to be more opportunities to farm for coins and gems and keys.

So I would spend the first like one or two or three ranks just building to the sides and just getting as many rooms as I could.

And then I would narrow down my approach up north overtime.

Yeah, I would.

I would do that with like ranks one and two at the end, but like I would start exploring N pretty much as far as I could go until I was like, I bet I'm going to start getting to lock doors.

Maybe I'll go back to rank 2 and and spread.

Out, yeah.

Now along that, what advice would you give to new and curious Blueprints players?

Again, without spoiling things, but what would you tell someone to sort of get them into the mindset to play this game?

Aside from make sure you have a notebook and a pen.

Don't make the mistake I did of thinking that you can just do it, because trust me, you can't.

Yeah, and that is a hard fact to accept.

We we messed up so you don't have to.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

And then if you get the chance to draft a code check room, whether you have an item that you want to stash or not, if you have one, there's a chance that you will need it because it's that's the room that you need if you want to keep an item for your next run.

And it's that can come in clutch as soon as you once you have, once it's clicked and the penny has dropped of how you can do this.

Knowing that you have a fail Safeway to do that is so valuable.

And that is something that I did not learn until quite late on.

Yeah, and you can code check quite literally anything you pick up, I think.

Well, I don't think you can check code.

Check the like currencies.

Yeah, you can't do the currencies, but the items that appear in your inventory, yeah.

Yeah, I I spent the last 10 days of my gameplay with something in the code check, and I would either get the code check but not the room that that item interacted with, or I would spend every exit I could just like please, please.

I have the green room.

Where's the coat check?

Give me the coat check and I would never get it.

Yeah, coat check can be kind of rare.

I I crafted an item using the workshop that allowed me to open some shortcuts.

And I also happened to craft the coat check that run.

And I didn't want to lose this thing because it took three ingredients to craft this thing.

I was like, I don't know if I can ever find the luck to find these three things to craft this thing, I also would have to find the workshop and I would have to have a reason to build it.

So maybe I should just code check this and now that thing, that tool that I have that I find to be very rare to and difficult to assemble, it's just permanently living in my coat check.

If I retrieve it from the coat check because I feel like I can use it somewhere.

I always have to remember I got to take this back to the coat.

Check.

So you're keeping an eye on your steps.

If you're like OK, I'm getting low, I need to get back to the coat check.

Like that becomes my number one priority is don't try to learn any information, don't try to find any new rooms or paths, get this tool back to the coat check so that I never have to craft it again.

And that's just going to be the way it is.

For me I I got some advice from a YouTube video I think probably in the same breath that I was rage posting on discord about the time lock save.

The piece of advice that I got was always have at least two gems.

You want to always be capable of drafting any room that you approach.

Some rooms will cost more than two gems.

Those are really rare, but always have at least two gems on you if possible.

Yeah, gems become, I think, more important than definitely more important than coins in a lot of runs, more important than keys in a lot of runs.

And in some cases, like you are going to need keys pretty much no matter what, there's one thing that you can interact with that will like basically decrease the number of locked doors.

But yeah, definitely definitely need some keys.

But gems are the because you could draft something and you'd only be able to access one of the rooms and it's a dead end if you don't have any gems.

Yeah, you start to use all of your learnings to streamline the process and to just make your future runs more informed.

And for advice I would give it's stuff I've mentioned already or that we've mentioned.

Taking notes is important.

You don't need to take them perfectly, just start taking them and then you'll probably change how you take notes once you learn more.

But just start jotting things down.

It's OK if it's messy, it's actually probably better if it's messy.

It's beautiful if it's messy.

I would focus less on your bad luck and more on what you learned.

Like try to see the positive side of things and then build up those lower ranks a lot to farm those keys and coins and gems and dice.

We haven't mentioned dice a ton, but dice allow you to re roll your options and the that you can find that pretty easily in closets.

And things.

So what questions do you still have or what do you still want to do in the game, if anything?

There's so much that I feel like I still need to do.

Like when I discovered the the way that I basically progressed to room 46, I was like, OK, I can take a breather and not go back to it.

But there are so many ways to approach it that I haven't yet experienced.

And I feel like it's another can of worms.

And then still, so like you, you guys said earlier that you haven't filled out your emporium of all these rooms.

And I want to know what what they do.

And I know that I could just look it up and read a guide on it.

But it's it's different when you get to experience that for yourself and you finally pull that draft up of the room that you've been looking for.

And there's just so much like that and just finding new ways to solve the puzzles that initially I was so confused by.

And there's also, there's just so many questions that I left with like, oh, what does that post it note?

Like what significance does that post it note hold?

What significance does that one sort of part in that room have?

There's just so much of that that you really don't get answers to until you solve it for yourself.

Yeah, you find multiple ways to approach certain rooms.

You think there's maybe only one way to do a task and then maybe you find that maybe there aren't two ways, but there's an easier way to that first way that you found like you can adjust things.

Trying to be very vague about how I describe it, but for me, I'll just say very vaguely again, I want to figure more out about the boiler room and connecting it to other rooms.

I've only drafted that a few times, but I've done the uzzle in there, but now I need to connect it to some other rooms and I just haven't had the luck.

There's something with the workshop that I noticed that works similarly to the pairs of pictures, but the workshop is so rare that I can't figure this thing out easily.

It would take so many days, and so I've started to draw a diagram in my notes and it's mostly empty right now, but it has to do with the workshop only, so I have no idea what that is.

And then I want to open more of those safes.

So we know that there are a few safes in the game and I've opened a couple, but I would like to keep opening those.

I feel like that's the next layer that makes sense for me because I've gotten credits and that's about it.

I kind of want to work together with you on that workshop thing because I had an item at one point that allowed me to change the rarity of certain rooms permanently, and one of them is the workshop, so I get the workshop all the time.

OK, you would probably, but I solve this a lot faster.

Well, but I have no idea what you're talking about with what's going on.

I'll.

Show this to you after reporting.

We'll figure it out.

We'll work together.

Play it after dark going on.

I mentioned it, but I want to get the rest of the red envelopes.

I want to, I'm not really like enthralled by what's in them, but I have four of them, so I may as well get all of them.

And then I want to at some point there is like a, a, a shop that it's like the high end shop where everything in it is like 20 coins, 40 coins, 90 coins.

And I want to, they're all like not all, but some of them are like pieces to another puzzle that you might find in another room.

So I want to be able to buy at least a couple of those and then take them to where their resting place, their final destination is like that.

That seems like a tough but reasonable task, especially as my like start of day allowances going up and up and up that that seems like a a task that I would like to obtain if I had more time.

Yeah, I don't know if I've even been in that shop.

I've been in there one time but I have like 12 coins which is still not nothing in blueprints, but everything else is more expensive than that.

I guess like Cara, like you said, they're they're just more rooms you can always find.

You can always just find a room you haven't seen before and that's often like the best way to learn and to move forward.

I looked up the base like 45 rooms in the game and I think I'm still, I think 8 of them are still undiscovered to me.

So like there's a lot that I don't know, there's a lot that each of us doesn't know and I think it's just beautiful that we each have a different experience in a different journey.

I wanted to open it up here just in case either of you had anything else to share about Blueprints before we end.

I just feel like you've both talked about so much that I instantly need to go back and change my game plan because I feel like I've been playing it wrong.

But I guess that's just everyone has their own experience.

Yes, that's so true.

I mean, we all reached the end.

We all did the thing.

We all did the.

Thing so yeah, we all got there somehow and other people I've talked to reached the end a certain way and they talk to me and they go man, it's crazy how we had to draft this and this and do this to get there right and I'm like that's not what I did I didn't do that.

It's a remote idea what you're talking about.

They're like what?

So it's kind of unbelievable when you start seeing another person playing or you hear about another person's experience.

But Kara, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on to talk about blueprints with and to have you share about patch with us.

Can you give listeners another pitch about where to find your content and Patch magazine?

Of course, thank you so much for having me.

It's been great talking to you guys.

If you want to learn more about Patch, then you can visit our website directly.

If you just Google Patch magazine, we'll pop up or you can follow our social media.

We are at the Patch mag on X and Instagram and just Patch Magazine on Blue Sky and TikTok.

Carrie, again, it's been a wonderful pleasure.

We wish you all the best with everything, with the magazine, with personal things, and again, thank you very, very much.

Thank you so much.

Well, that's our review of Blueprints.

You can play it on PCPS 5 and Xbox Series.

Kara rated it an 8.

Disco Cola rated it a 7.5.

I rated it a 9.5.

That's the end of this episode of Underplayed.

You can find more of our episodes at kzum.org/underplayed and on common podcast platforms like Spotify or Apple Podcast.

Our music was composed by Jack Rodenberg.

Our art comes from Oni Mochi.

Check out our show notes where you can find and follow us across social media.

Under Plate is on Blue Sky, Instagram and Threads.

You can also find my links down below, and I stream a variety of indie games on Twitch.

And I am at Disco Cola in many places, including Backlogged, where I put this game in my Top 100 indie games and underplayed is on YouTube.

We don't talk about it a lot, but we're going to talk about it more often.

Check it out there if that's where you like to get your podcasts.

And we'll try to someday, if we ever have time, put more content on there.

Next time we'll have two more secret games to review, and our featured game will be Moonlighter and Action RPG developed by Digital Sun.

Until then, everyone keep on playing.