you're listening to fusion patrol a listener supported podcast each week we take a single episode of a science fiction tv series movie or audio and overanalyze it to within an inch of its life welcome to the discussion Hello and welcome to another episode of Fusion Patrol.

I'm Eugene.

And I'm John.

And tonight on World Beyond Movie Night, we'll be looking at the 1973 movie, Soylent Green.

You know, I've got to interject real quick.

That's the first place I ever saw this back in the early 80s.

Oh, Soylent Green?

Yeah.

It's on TV.

Fair enough.

I have never seen it.

Really?

I mean, obviously I know the ending and whatnot, but I don't believe I have ever actually watched this movie.

Watching through it, I was genuinely not.

There were little bits like with the trucks pulling people up and, you know, in the dumpsters and whatnot.

But yeah, I think that's from clips.

It's used in clips.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anyway.

Well, let's start off with a synopsis of this and then we'll discuss some of the production difficulties we've had on this episode.

All right.

Soylent Green.

Progress is a bit.

And New York City in the far-flung future year of 2022 is living proof.

40 million people, half of them unemployed, living crammed hand-to-mouth in the polluted perpetual greenhouse summer.

Two such men are Detective Thorne and Booker Saul Roth of the NYPD A crime-fighting duo who live together Thorne is a youngish, cynical cop who has lived his entire life in the world as it is And Saul is a much older academic who can remember the earth as it once was Beautiful and green They are lucky to have work and a place to live Despite the frequent blackouts which require them to pedal their own generator to charge batteries, and just like half the population of the planet, they live by eating the flavorless soy, lentil, and plankton food biscuits known as Soylent Red, Yellow, and Green.

This is much to Saul's regret, although Thorne has never known anything else.

Saul helps Thorne on his investigations by doing book research at the exchange.

Meanwhile, somewhere in the city, in a human encampment of old, derelict cars, a man named Donovan visits Gilbert, a desperate punk.

Donovan gives him a meat hook and sends him to do a job.

Life for the rich is much different than that of the masses.

In Chelsea Towers, a ritzy secure apartment complex barricaded away from the rabble, lives Mr.

Simonson.

Simonson has his own bodyguard, Tab Fielding, and the apartment comes complete with furniture in the form of Sherl, a beautiful young woman whose job it is to see to Simonson's sexual needs.

Simonson seems disturbed, and he sends Sherl and Fielding out to do some shopping.

While they are out buying incredibly expensive, yet still rather pathetic fruits and veg, and even meat, the punk breaks into Simonson's apartment.

Simonson isn't surprised, and after being given a message from his killers that he has become unreliable, he allows himself to be killed.

The punk is surprised, asking if this is the right thing to do.

Simonson replies, it's not right.

But it is necessary.

The punk brutally murders him, then leaves.

Thorne is assigned to investigate.

Standing in a rich home, probably for the only time in his life, he steals everything he can, including real food, bourbon, paper, pencils, books, and soap.

Plus, he gets some cash from the body that he has to make a cut with the sanitation squad.

for.

Realizing that an actual punk breaking into the apartment would have stolen things, just as Thorne has, Thorne realizes this was an assassination, not a random killing.

He questions Cheryl, but she seems to have genuinely liked Simonson.

He suspects an insider helped with a murder, and specifically, he suspects fielding.

Thorne takes his haul of groceries home, and Saul is overcome with emotion.

He puts Saul into researching the books he's taken, which are oceanographic surveys of plankton, and to dig deep on Simonson.

Thorne locates Fielding and, waiting for him to leave home, he goes in to snoop.

Fielding also has some furniture, who is still home.

This does not deter him from searching.

He is discovered she was eating something that she tried to hide from him, and he steals her spoon with a red substance still on it, which Saul later identifies as strawberries.

$150 a jar strawberries.

How can a bodyguard afford something like that?

Saul also has prepared dinner with the meat, veg, and fruits, and Thorne has a meal unlike anything he's ever had before.

Saul also gives him the info he has so far.

Simonson was a retired lawyer, was partners with the governor, and was on the board of the Soylent Corporation.

Later that night, Thorne realizes he's being followed by a professional.

He calls his supervisors for help, but no help is available.

We see that the supervisor is cooperating with Mr.

Donovan, a member of the governor's staff.

Thorne returns to Simonson's apartment.

Sheryl is there because she's the furniture and is awaiting the next occupant.

Thorne is there because, as a cop, he can use the furniture.

He finds a room full of furniture.

It's the furniture's night off at the Chelsea Towers, and they're having a party in the currently unoccupied apartment.

While he questions Cheryl in the bedroom, the apartment manager enters the apartment and starts beating on the other furniture.

Thorne covers for them, and while the manager doesn't believe him, he's not going to make trouble with a policeman.

Everyone leaves except Thorne and Cheryl, as she asks him to stay because she doesn't want to be alone.

The sex isn't enough to keep him there, but hot and cold running water shower and the AC cranked up to full and eggs for breakfast manages to keep him there.

He also learns Simonson recently went to church for a confession.

Thorne tries to speak with a priest, but he seems to be incoherent, a broken man.

Whatever Simonson confessed has broken his mind.

Thorne will have to come back tomorrow and find out.

Donovan knows that Thorne has seen the priest, so the governor tells him to do whatever he has to.

Just don't tell him about it.

Donovan sends Fielding to murder the priest.

He also arranges for Thorne to be put on riot duty and sends the punk to kill him in the confusion of the riot.

The punk fails and is killed, but Thorne is shot in the leg.

Thorne visits Fielding and tries to beat a confession out of him.

Fielding won't strike him back because striking a cop is a guaranteed life sentence.

But when Thorne starts beating up on Fielding's furniture, Fielding fights back.

Thorne ultimately gets the upper hand and threatens to kill them both if he keeps interfering with him.

Thorne goes to Sheryl, who patches up his wounded leg.

He's worried about her, and also she's cute, and she knows how to do the sexing thing.

Saul has gone to the exchange, and based on the books he's brought and the information they have, he now knows the secret that got Simonson killed.

The exchange knows it too, but without evidence.

they cannot take what they know to the Council of Nations.

Having been burdened with the truth, Saul decides to go home.

He leaves a note for Thorne and heads out.

Home is a euphemism for a euthanasia parlor.

Saul will be painlessly killed and get twenty full minutes of his favorite color, beautiful imagery of the earth that used to be, and like classical music.

Thorne arrives to see some of it and is dumbfounded by the beauty of the world.

But Saul manages to tell him the secret and admonish him to get the evidence to the exchange.

Okay, listeners, before we go on, this next paragraph will spoil this movie for you if you have not seen this movie.

So stop now, watch the movie, and we'll just go on from there.

Thorne follows the path that the euthanized bodies take and finds they are sent to a waste disposal facility.

And there he sees the truth for himself.

The oceans have collapsed And cannot support plankton The advertised ingredient of Soylent Green The human bodies Are being turned into Soylent Green Thorne escapes the facility And tries to get to the exchange He is met with a team of killers led by Fielding Attempting to stop him from getting to the exchange He calls for backup But with his supervisor complicit With the governor's office Will anyone come?

In the running gun battle Thorne kills most of his pursuers But not Fielding fielding mortally wounds him but thorn manages to kill fielding his supervisor and a medical team arrive thorn insists that he tell the exchange what's happening and as he is hauled out on a stretcher he shouts to an indifferent population of desperate starving people soylent green is people all right the end all right i uh i tagged a little coda there at the beginning of the last episode of fusion patrol because i had to i had to send them out of order that that mentioned that you last week and couldn't record John.

So they know that we got canceled at the last moment.

And I will tell you that I was very disappointed because I had just watched it.

And I was like, wow, I am suitably impressed by this film.

I was really kind of like, gosh, I wish I had seen this before.

But I thought, well, I know the ending.

It's no big deal.

it's Chuck Heston doing Chuck Heston and it's, uh, you know, the usual, I don't like post apocalyptic grudgy, gritty films anyway.

So it just has not been on the radar for me to make the effort to go out and watch it.

Okay.

And I was really pumped to talk about it, but now here we are a week later and it's not that I'm not pumped, but I haven't had a chance to watch it again.

And I apparently somewhere in the line did a cut instead of a copy when I was something with my talking points notes.

So I am, I have some, which I recreated this evening, but they're not as good as my notes were for the last, the last go through.

So I'm, I would say I'm kind of not prepared.

Oh, well, I'm sorry about that.

Yeah.

My cold is pretty bad and I'm still suffering right now.

I'm not blaming you for it.

Yeah.

I might be able to tell my voice is a little bit lower than normal.

we can fix that in post oh there you go a little helium filter you'll be fine oh perfect yeah i was just gonna say i kind of wish it was like this all the time but oh well yeah you don't want to have to go through the troubled habit that way no no not at all so what did you think of soiling green well i have seen it a number of times over the years I you know first saw it in the 80s on tv it was edited I'm sure and I've had the movie for a few years now I've watched it on and off it's not something you want to go back and re-watch over and over again but this time was like maybe it's just because I wasn't feeling very well when I watched it but man this is a wholly depressing film oh is that I have a note here this film has No hope and no joy.

It is a prelude to the end of the world.

It is only a matter of time until what's left of the food chain dies and all living creatures perish.

And the fact that the citizens on the bottom are being served nourishment in the form of rations made from humans will eventually become a mere footnote for the severe climate disaster that will eventually make Earth a living hell to the very few that are there to witness it.

It is.

Yes.

That sums it up.

I mean, Harry Harrison wrote the original story for this.

Which had no cannibalism in it.

No, none at all.

At all.

None at all.

His story is about overpopulation.

And I'm not sure if he had an ecology in there, but maybe.

But man, yeah.

The director took that and ran with it.

And yeah, there's some cheapness here and there.

But the overall story, wow.

I mean, true.

1973 was we they were pretty big with the green oh not not just green piece but you know being aware of earth and ecology and whatever but holy cow well you got to remember that in 1973 do you you were i'm sure you're old enough i know i know how old you are you're old enough to remember the fake indian crying over the filthy yeah yeah right that was that was you know that was real that was and the the indian wasn't real he was an italian guy yeah but and i'm sure the tear was just acted but the the scenes of pollution and filth and trash and absolutely positively real.

It was 1971 that Nixon created the EPA.

Exactly.

And there's the reason is because rivers were literally on fire.

And despite some setbacks in the last few years, we have made remarkable progress since 1971.

But in 1973, you could be forgiven for taking the progression of what we saw linearly and just making it continue to make it worse.

And in a way, that is one of the most hopeful things about this film is that I look at that and I say 1973, you can believe that that's what was happening.

And I can look at the world today and I can say it's not fantastic, but it's better than it was in 1973.

Oh, heck yeah.

Oh, heck yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I think shortly after that, catalytic converters became mandatory in most vehicles.

And so, you know, smog and whatnot started to be reduced in big cities.

I mean, the closest I ever came to that, actually experiencing a place with that much pollution was in Thailand in 2006.

In Bangkok, the air was putrid.

It was horrible.

I thought it was just dusty.

It wasn't.

It was smog and pollution.

It was astounding.

And that was a light day.

I understand that in New York and California, it was even worse.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you've seen pictures of Shanghai and Beijing.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, where it looks like a heavy fog.

But no, it's not.

Those are particulates from pollution.

Coal plants, mostly, in their case.

But yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, that clean coal.

Uh-huh.

Yeah, sure thing.

You've gotcha.

It's clean, all right.

We've made progress.

And as long as we don't turn the government over to a bunch of oligarchs who want to disband regulations so that they can exploit us to our maximum end.

Yes, for reference, please watch this film.

And think of the Soylent Corporation.

And think of the Soylent Corporation.

Yeah.

So, the one thing I want to call out, the other thing I want to call out, like I said, I hadn't watched the film.

I kind of have a, I don't know, I've always had this sort of, how do I put this?

I would say it's an anti-Charlton Heston thing, and it's nothing to do with his politics.

Long before I knew anything about Charlton Heston's politics, there's just something about him I don't like.

Like in Planet of the Apes, I don't like him.

In Omega Man, I don't like him.

I don't like the character he plays.

I'm not saying he's not playing it well.

I'm not saying that he isn't a good actor or anything like that.

It's just he's playing characters that I don't actually like.

I can kind of get him.

You know, I can sympathize with him, but I'm sympathizing with him with the parts of myself that I don't like.

Yeah.

And you get that.

And so I don't rush to see a Charlton Heston film.

Right.

I mean, in the Planet of the Ape film, he was, you know, pretty much on the run all the time.

So he's always on the defense.

So, you know, when he arrives on the planet, he's obviously hates mankind.

And that's why he left, you know, maybe.

Oh, he, he, he says it in his log basically.

Oh yeah.

I'm out here.

It's true.

I have to think there's gotta be something better than us out there.

Yeah.

That's right.

He's hoping for humanities.

Yeah.

Something different.

Something better than humans.

Yeah.

So, I mean, he's always kind of that.

And I mean, he's got to look for it.

So I've kind of had that in my mind here.

Here's another Charlton Heston.

And yes, he is, but he's not.

He's not quite the same in this.

No.

Is when he experiences the beauty of the earth that he has never seen.

I believe it.

Right.

That scene where he is, he's convinced to, to spend the night because he's enticed by a hot shower.

yeah he he is is exhibiting joy i mean that is the happiest part of the entire film and and it's because of the water not because the sexy naked girl in the shower with him right exactly and you know the the promise of eggs afterwards it's like wow and and yeah you can see it in his face it's like it's like congratulations mr heston you've made your acting teacher happy yeah he he hit he hit the marks yeah his acting it actually got much better since the uh the other films now granted i haven't seen him in 10 commandments since i was like six so right it's been a while yeah it's just and i think i i do think that the character that he's playing in planet of the apes and the character he's playing in the omega man i think he's doing it well.

It is the character and he is hitting the marks for those characters too.

But my mind has equated that to this is Charlton Heston.

And so here I see Charlton Heston also kind of a cynical cop, but you can see that he's actually, he cares about Saul.

He doesn't, he is actually worried about Cheryl.

He's more concerned about her at the end that he is for himself.

Yes.

It's like, you just go keep being furniture because you'll live.

And he's...

The only thing that I do question in this film, and they play it well, I don't think they play it as well as how awestruck he is and how beautiful the earth was.

But it's the scene where he's eating food for the first time.

And it's like, I don't know.

Would you feel that way about something so completely alien that you've never had it before?

Is a chili or whatever he was served or, you know.

It was some kind.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Whatever that was.

That slop.

I saw that bowl get put out on the table and I thought, you took that steak and you didn't grill it.

It's the more, a better, higher efficiency use of, of the ingredients.

The ingredients.

And plus I think grilling it would raise quite a bit of attention.

Also a lot of, yeah.

Also that was pretty janky looking meat.

Yeah, still.

Yeah, exactly.

So I guess it probably was only good enough for stew.

It's probably still people, but yeah, it could be.

Yeah.

Long beef.

Yeah.

Is it long beef?

long pig isn't it yeah long pig yeah long pig yeah yeah anyway so in that scene i i did what you know when he stuffed the lettuce in his mouth and he was like i'm not impressed with this i'm like well well duh yeah it's like and saul is like expecting you to be all like huh uh-huh huh and he's like yeah because i obviously saul has forgotten what lettuce tastes like or Or doesn't taste like as the case may be.

I think for Saul, it was more like the texture.

And the fact that you're chewing something with fibers in it, not just a brick of compressed algae.

People.

Well, depending what day it is.

Yeah.

If it's not Tuesday, it's not Soylent Green Day.

It could be Soylent Red or Soylent Yellow.

Yeah.

Soylent Blue?

Soylent Taco Tuesday.

There you go.

yeah so notes in no logical order because I definitely so he he goes to he gets put on riot duty which seems pretty deliberate to get him down there where they've got the killer waiting for him yes and and to keep him off the case yeah and there isn't enough Soylent Green.

So there's going to be a riot and they know there's going to be a riot.

And did the Soylent Corporation not send enough Soylent Green intentionally to cause the riot?

I would say that is an overwhelming yes.

Yeah.

That's my thought.

Yeah.

It's pretty important for them to keep this under wraps.

I think that that's an excellent use of that because we do hear at one point The one cop say to Thorne, he's like, yeah, it's going to be bad.

We're already out of Soylent Green.

He says, what already?

He says, yeah, I don't know.

Half the shipment didn't arrive.

Exactly.

Yep.

They don't tell you anything.

And they never follow up with that with Thorne going, hmm.

I wonder if they did that on purpose to cause the riot so that the audience follows along.

You could just totally go, hey, this is just you get put on riot duty.

There's going to be riots.

There isn't enough food to go around.

But in this case, there may literally have been an evil intent causing a riot, which would have probably killed a bunch of other people, too.

Oh, yeah.

That's good cover.

And these guys obviously don't care who dies because it's more.

Well, not to mention it's profit.

Exactly.

It's just feedstock.

That's all it is.

Let's.

Oh.

So we should put this out there.

A couple of things.

One, they projected the population of New York City in 2022 to be 40 million people.

It was, in fact, 8.52 million.

And that was the first year it had seen a decline.

Oh, wow.

So they missed that by a bit.

Yeah, by a bit.

But hey.

By a bit.

Charlton Heston was 49 when this film was made, which was 1973.

And if you go back 49 years from 2022 as 1973.

So Thorne's character, assuming he is the same age as Charlton Heston, was born in the year this film was made.

Right.

Yeah.

And the reason I bring that one, it's just a weird coincidence, I think, because I'm sure Heston's supposed to be probably younger.

But if we assume that to be true, a child born in 1973 in this world has never had food that isn't this stuff that they've never seen.

So, I mean, they're projecting the world really bad, really fast from the day this film got made.

Maybe a little too pessimistic.

Maybe.

But, you know, sometimes you just want to hit the audience over the head with something.

You know, this is not in a hundred years.

It's in 50.

You know, you give him a, you give him a stick of asparagus and he's like, I remember this from when I kid, I'm not going to eat it.

It's like, yuck.

Yeah.

You have that salt.

I'll have my soylent grain.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I think it's still try it.

And definitely if I was old enough to remember any sort of non soylent food, I would definitely eat it.

Yeah, I probably would too.

And I'm not a fan.

in any way, shape, or form of broccoli.

But yeah, I, especially since I'd just gone to all the trouble to steal it from a rich guy's dead guy.

Yeah, well, you know, hey.

I, another thing that they don't quite bring up in the film, and again, I like it.

I like the, I guess this, I was going to use the word subtlety, but in other words, just like not explaining to us over the head that the, that the Soylent Green was shipment was short so that they could cause a riot yeah this is a police state oh yeah and but they don't in a way they don't explicitly call it out but there are a couple of things like you get life imprisonment if you strike a cop right and there is nobody going to stop him from stealing simonson's apartment blind right and i i believe that he makes a mention of outside the city it's all restricted because that's where the the farms are yeah so it's you know heavily fortified and whatnot they're penned in right there are they're all penned into the cities and all the cities are basically holding pens at this point yeah so i kind of wonder if the soylent corporation has had this plan for a while it's a good question and and how how there is an underused piece of this story.

So obviously the Soylent Corporation is doing this thing.

Yeah.

How much did we get to see of the governor?

Not much.

No, hardly at all.

How, how, how is the governor, the governor?

How is it that he happens to be a board member of the Soylent Corporation?

Maybe it was his turn.

You know, and presumably it's like this all over the world.

Yeah.

Or at least all over America or whatever, because there's a council of nations.

Apparently I thought it was, you know, they made a big deal about the governor and yet we, we get one scene with him, a recognizable actor, but it is not true.

It just kind of raises more questions in my mind.

Like, does, did he just buy the governorship or why is governor of New York that important?

Wouldn't you want to be, I don't know, president of the wastelands or they don't use him hardly at all.

I don't think they have to because the corporation is taking care of itself right now.

You know, they're just kind of keeping him in the loop because, well, he's a board member.

yeah and i don't know if he's in on it oh he's in on it but i got a feeling that yeah he knows what's actually going on so he understands it needs to be kept quiet yeah yeah yeah yeah i'm sure he knows what's going on i'm sure he knows what soylent green is right it's just yeah wow Yeah.

Just, I just, you know, I guess, I guess probably what makes it again, odd.

They make a big deal about the governor.

They make a big deal about he's a partner with the Simonson.

They make a, they've got his picture up on posters and places of building.

First time I saw the picture of him, I go, Oh, I know that actor.

Yeah.

I know that actor.

I've seen him in a million things.

Well, he's obviously got a part in this film.

Barely.

Yeah.

Barely.

You know, he's in it for a, what, 30 seconds, maybe a minute tops gives one like, oh, yeah, you do whatever you want.

Just don't tell me.

And then the less I know, the better.

Get out of here.

Exactly.

But because it's just New York and it feels like the Soylent Corporation is much bigger.

And so, therefore, if they were planting somebody in position, you'd think they'd plant them in somewhere bigger.

It creates the illusion that this is just the world of New York and that's all there is.

Yeah.

There's not much in the way of world building.

Yeah.

Outside the city, I should say.

Yeah.

All right.

Let's see here.

I loved the sanitation ninja outfits.

I'm guessing that's so that they can skimp on extras.

Yeah, probably.

Yes.

Yeah.

And I always got a kick out of the spray painted football helmets.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the lack of real uniforms for the police and the fact that everybody's kind of dressed in the same drab clothing, except for Saul, because he's old.

Yeah.

Really kind of gets the idea that, you know, there really isn't anything in way of resources left.

Oh, no.

Well, the fact that Chelsea Towers has to have their alarm systems fixed by ordering someone to custom build a part because you can't get parts anymore.

Yeah, exactly.

It tells you everything you need to know that even the rich people are, I mean, they're rich and they've got stuff, but they're still not where they ought to be.

Yeah.

The world is in decline.

Yep.

Yeah.

Let's see.

So I guess soylent yellow is supposed to be soy.

Soylent red is supposed to be lentils.

And soylent green is supposed to be soylent.

And soylent green is supposed to be plankton.

Yes.

Supposed to be.

And everybody loves the soylent green.

It's apparently a lot better.

Mm-hmm.

It's very tasty.

Mm-hmm.

We never heard that.

No.

No, nobody actually enjoyed it.

It was just food.

It's like, I'm guessing that what it is is it's higher protein.

Yeah.

Or it's, you know, it's better bang for buck in terms of what nutrition you get out of it.

Probably has protein and oils in it, which you're probably not going to get too much in the other stuff.

So, yeah.

And sadly, it would be part of a well-balanced diet because you'd make a little house out of it.

All right.

Let's hit the big question.

Sure.

he's being hauled out at the end in in a church filled with the the most the desperate the the most i want to say the most uh the lowest of the low of the people who are left in new york city but i don't really see much difference between them and people sleeping in the stairways in the apartments but soylent green is people soylent green is people would they care how many no this is this is a truth that broke simonson broke saul broke the priest right and like we we got you know and everyone else kind of know i think everyone else knows in soylent clearly that you know but but would the would the basses care it's like darn you know soylent green is better than the Soylent yellow and red.

Let me tell you.

Yeah.

And also, other than the riot that occurred when they ran out of food and that one woman who was screaming and was led away by a police officer.

I think the fight has pretty much been beaten, starved and cooked by the heat waves out of most of the masses.

I don't think there's any hope left in anybody that they just eat what they're served because there's no work and everything costs so much anyways that, you know, it's not worth saving up to buy any food.

You just get the free stuff that the government gives you or however that works.

You know, it doesn't sound like that they do.

I mean, it sounds to me like there must be some people on the dole, 20 million of them.

Yeah.

To some degree.

but you know when we go down to the the distribution place where they say there's going to be a riot there are prices oh that's ah yeah you're right never mind so it's not handed out but it's it's affordable for most i guess so here's the the the thing that i i assume that you know if there's 20 million people who don't work they must be getting some money somehow and i'm assuming that this is a you know some sort of supplemental nutrition program right exactly yep but we are treated to a scene well actually they mentioned it twice fielding mentions it he's like about the death benefit for simonson oh yeah and and he said yeah you want that he's no i was thinking for sure so he's being nice to shirl that she's going to get the 200 or 200 food coupons yep those were your choices 200 or 200 food coupons and you hand them over to people for turning over a dead body does it have to be your family yeah you know you get what i'm going with it is like there's a system for bring out you did yeah i think that 20 million people of unemployment would drop pretty quick actually but who's to say that's not happening yeah and that okay and i all right i'll give you an example why i think maybe it isn't happening towards one of the scenes when thorn goes to the church he finds a dead woman on the steps with a child tied to it yeah to it and he unties the child takes the child in gives it over to a nurse, a nun.

And at no point does he say, make sure you grab her body out there and make sure this kid gets her $200.

Yeah, true.

He doesn't say anything like that.

Yeah.

So what happens to the body?

Does somebody else on the street just go, holy cow, 200 bucks, flip it over the shoulder and drag it down to the...

Yeah, the disposal facility.

Maybe it does have to be somebody you're related to.

That's probably it.

In which case, neither Fielding nor Sherrill would be able to get it.

Well, I suppose you could rationalize it that it's property or their employees or I don't know, something like that.

But yeah, there's plenty of ways to exploit that for your own gain.

Well, I mean, you know, it wouldn't be the first time where people in the same family didn't necessarily get along well enough to say.

Oh, that's very true.

and what you don't get is that you kill them get their death benefit in food coupons use the food coupons get soylent green made with grandpa it could be yeah yep i would assume that there is still some abhorrence for cannibalism amongst the general population otherwise i think there probably would be a lot more straight up cooking grandpa uh yeah that is in evidence in the show yep in in this so maybe that prohibition is still there yeah i i think that in this world the idea that you know the dead are to be buried or you know something that's not going to end them up on the food table well there is there is a scene that says i remember they used to take them out and bury them instead of just sending them to a disposal facility.

Right.

I just want to say there is a, I cannot tell you which one it is because their names are so stupid.

I think it might be Revelation of the Daleks, Remembrance of the Daleks, Recombobulation of the Daleks.

I don't remember which one.

It's Colin Baker's only Dalek story where he goes to the planet Necros and Davros is there.

He's entranced himself as the great healer and he's been solving all the problems for the other planet in the solar system.

and they find out that it's because he's emptying all the graves out, turning them into food, his new food process.

And when they find out about it, do you think they'd appreciate it if they find out that they're eating grandpa?

And he says something that's the best line Davros has ever said.

I believe that would create something known as market resistance.

or consumer resistance.

One of the two.

I don't remember what it was.

Yes.

It's like, yeah.

So I guess that's true because if they're willing to kill to keep the secret about Soylent Green, I guess that's where my question was, my original question was going.

Obviously, they're willing to kill as many people as they need to and then turn them into Soylent Green to keep the secret of Soylent Green because obviously there are people who would not like the fact that that is Soylent Green.

I guess where I was going is as you say, these people are so beaten down.

Are they overestimating how outraged the people would be?

You know, I think the corporation is worried about that.

But I guess the more you think about it, though, it doesn't make any sense because it seems to be that they're the only player in the game.

Yep.

There's no other competing Soylent-like products out there.

That we know of, yeah.

Exactly, that they know of.

So, yeah, I have a weird feeling that if they brought it out in a, I guess one would say clinical way and just explain it to everybody is that, you know, there is no, there's not enough food going around and humans are basically meat.

And, well, everybody needs to eat.

And these are very trying times.

Well, I'm thinking, has he done enough by shouting around, soiling green as people, blah, blah, blah.

I just, an uncontrolled release of the information, not strategically planned.

Oh, yeah.

Out there.

What percentage of the population are going to go, eh, you know, how bad can Donald Trump be?

Oh, wait, sorry.

How bad can eating people be?

Exactly.

What percentage of the people will do?

It's better than eating cats.

They're eating dogs.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's, there's going to be a percentage of people who are absolutely horrified and they're going to be up in arms about it.

And the police will take care of them.

Right.

They're rioting.

And then there's, and then turn them into Soylent Green.

And they will give their all for the country.

Literally.

Yeah.

I just, I'm fascinated by the question of how, how awful humans can be.

And I think this film really does.

beg this question it's like how bad would these people be if if that and and there's been green's worst nightmare came true and they found out about it right and there's been other science fiction stories that you know the the idea that when you die you know your your physical being gets sent to the waste reclamation facility where we get all of the feedstock for food and whatever so yeah And it's like, yeah, well, you die and your body's not really needed anymore.

And we're on a spaceship.

Where are we going to do?

We're going to either throw it overboard.

We're wasting precious elements.

So, yeah, you know, might as well give it to the microbes and make synthetic protein out of it or whatever.

Yeah.

Okay.

Let's get some questions about bookers and the exchange.

And did you catch that the head booker, I think, or the head exchange Ian or whatever they're called was Celia Lovesky, who was obviously to pow in a muck time on Star Trek.

So at least she wasn't putting on an accent in Star Trek.

That was that was her.

So what what is a booker?

I am guessing, and for a while, I kind of thought that Thorne was illiterate, but I think he's just not very good at reading or he doesn't have.

Clearance?

Well, not clearance.

Well, but didn't Saul have to, he had to do something to get into the exchange, right?

There was a sort of like, you know, you got to go to the exchange.

Like only he could go?

it could be because there's there's no more books being made apparently uh because i'm guessing it takes too many resources so they're valuable so not just everybody can get into them it get into like a library because they'd steal the books and sell them or something like that burn them for heat it could be could be so yeah i think that i think was just a something to make it's just a plot complication device.

Okay.

Yeah, the name Booker implies a man of books, one who does booking, and when the chief inspector or whatever his name says, you know, Saul's getting pretty old, he'll get you another Booker.

Do all cops live with their Booker?

I don't know if they live with them, but having a partner that can look stuff up for you might be very useful.

Well, yeah.

i mean there's no computers to see no no not so i saw there was a old space combat video game which was brand new back then yeah so that was kind of odd and then the exchange is kind of odd because what the heck yeah like a library yeah do they have actually a giant used bookstore really.

But yeah, what power do they have?

I mean, I don't think it felt like they had power.

I mean, OK, before anybody in the audience is going, yeah, knowledge is power.

OK, I get that.

But it felt like they had some sort of it felt like they had some sort of almost mythical power or at least the ability to communicate outside of New York.

Exactly.

We can we can take this to the Council of Nations.

It's like, do you do you really need proof to take your suspicions to the Council of Nations?

Yeah, probably would help.

Well, sure.

But maybe the Council of Nations could kind of like investigate a little investigate, you know, like if you can't trust the cops in your own local jurisdiction, you got to go up.

And that's.

Yeah.

And who's to say that they weren't just going to going to go to the U.N.?

well yeah yeah so it's yeah yeah that that part of the movie was always kind of hazy for me it's like i'm not quite sure i understand the reasoning why of it that's an important thing it sounds important it's a very you know golden age of science fiction notion that there's like a council of nations that you can report stuff to but whether or not it actually would help who knows Okay.

And here's the other thing.

So Saul goes to the exchange.

He's confronted with what they've got, the conclusions.

They come to the conclusion.

We now know that the exchange already knows that Soylent Green is people.

And Saul is like, okay, Soylent Green is people.

I'm going to go home.

He's going to go off himself now.

But they're like, we can't do anything without proof.

So Saul tells Thorne they can't do anything without proof.

Get the proof to them that Soylent Green is people.

Okay.

He follows the body.

He goes to the plant.

He sees them turning people into Soylent Green.

He escapes by himself, gets back to the city, and then is going to go to the exchange.

And what's he going to give him as proof?

His word.

By the way, Soylent Greens is people.

I saws it.

Yeah.

Like, yeah, huh?

That's not proof, dude.

What, what, what proof did they need?

What?

It's like, just someone has actually seen it.

That's enough.

We can go to the council of nations now and tell them we, we definitely are sure that silent green is people.

You don't need to do, you know, a, a plant inspection or whatever it is that, You do.

Yeah.

But, uh, you know, probably all the plant inspectors get their own furniture.

Could be.

I just, I just had this horrible 1970s flashback to all the old game shows.

I mean, well, what have you on?

It's a new Broy Hills.

So fun furniture set.

It's a parko lounger.

Yeah.

Well, that adds on a whole new meaning in this world.

Yes.

I didn't I've never liked the idea that that there were you know sex slaves in the apartments it's like ew holy cow it's definitely it's definitely yeah it's definitely not a good look it's not a good look no it's definitely there for shock value but it's not really that surprising no and it definitely goes a long way towards explaining that that really humanity is being devalued.

You know, they're...

Food!

They're food!

Well, yeah, yeah.

There's really, you know, unless you are rich, there's really no...

You have no worth.

Okay.

I will throw one more word out there.

Mm-hmm.

And this is the problem.

One of the many problems with this world, unless you're rich or pretty.

Oh, well, that too, yes.

Yes.

Right?

And that is, unfortunately, what we've got.

This is a pattern that's happened.

Whether we like the landscape of male-female interactions in the past throughout the world, there has been a marked imbalance in the number of women who turn to sex work to survive.

yeah and so it totally fits with 1973 it totally fits with the history of mankind the pretty ones will end up in places like that because i'm not going to jeopardize having a job yeah he said that at one point i don't cheat i don't cheat on him i wouldn't jeopardize my job mm-hmm yep exactly you know later on and and and when we have the scene where the manager of the apartment complex is beating the girls and then when the cop puts pops his face out there and he's like oh hey i didn't know you were here yeah it's like you know we give them we give them a day off a month we don't have to by law it's like yeah like it it is like okay so this is literally a regulated industry and wow it's not good everything about this film is bleak there is yeah right as i said before there is no hope there's no joy you're you're absolutely right And in a way I feel bad enjoying it.

Uh, yeah, a little bit.

It's like, it's like, okay, I, maybe, you know, maybe it's like living in 2025, the real world.

And you look at it and you go, well, we haven't gotten there yet.

And, and, and maybe, maybe you're looking at it and you're going, maybe we need to stop these guys before this is it.

I don't know.

But, yeah I personally did not find Fielding's furniture to be a particularly attractive woman she was alright she was alright but all of the ones at the Chelsea Towers were hot yeah and you know I'm wondering if that's because she's a lower class bit of furniture like you know you don't get the deluxe Barco lounger you get the Ikea sofa.

Right.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And I, there's definitely a hierarchy here.

Was that on purpose?

Uh, maybe doing that.

I don't know.

I mean, she wasn't, she wasn't bad, right?

She's as a normal human being in the scope of the world.

She was not bad looking, but in the world of high price call girls, So like, I'm thinking she's bargained, bargained to been version.

If that's intentional in casting land.

Yeah.

I think that, that, that, uh, her being associated with, oh, what are Chuck Connors?

Fielding?

Fielding.

Fielding.

Tab.

Tab.

Yeah.

I think that, yeah.

Because he is, he's still higher up than somebody else to sleep in a stairwell, but he's not like living in the Chelsea Towers.

You know, he just worked there.

No, but I.

But.

But he's got some money.

Thorn made mention that he, his apartment was better than.

Than most, yeah.

And than his, than Thorn's.

Oh yeah, yeah.

Yeah, he definitely makes more money than the cops.

That's for sure.

But that kind of sort of makes sense.

He's the bodyguard to a really rich guy, so.

Oh yeah, yeah, makes sense.

So at the other, at the other end of this, he's shouting, they'll soon they'll be breeding us like cattle.

Yeah.

Really?

Really?

I don't think they have to.

I think they're doing a fine job.

See, that's kind of the point.

That's kind of the point.

They're, they're, they're, they got plenty of people who are dying and they're turning them in.

And if they had to start culling them, that would be a little bit different.

But I don't really think they need to be breeding more at this point.

All right.

or that that's, I don't think that's on the roadmap for Soylent Corporation, right?

I just, I don't, I don't see that.

It was an odd line when he shouted it and I'm like, really?

You think they would do that?

Because that's like saying we'll be breeding cows to feed cows.

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense.

It doesn't, it doesn't make much sense.

I guess, you know, eventually they'll start, The numbers will start thinning out and the rich people will have nothing to eat, but Soylent Green too.

Exactly.

Right.

Another fine choice.

That's a long way down the line, I think, in that world.

It's definitely beyond the scope of the script.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Definitely a good line for shock value.

Make the audience think.

And then there is the opening sequence.

The montage?

The photographs.

The montage of pictures.

Yeah.

I thought they did a fair job of, oh, isn't this quaint?

Oh, yo, look.

Oh, yeah.

All right.

Fine.

Yeah.

We've ruined it.

Progression of rampant capitalism.

Sure.

And expansionism.

Progress is hell.

Progress.

Yeah.

Progress is hell.

Yeah.

Let's see.

We get to see Lincoln Kilpatrick, who played Zachary in Omega Man.

He played the priest.

Oh, right, right.

Okay, yep.

Yeah, that was kind of cool.

I didn't recognize him without his white hair.

Yeah, exactly.

And we get to see Dick Van Patten as an usher.

I think that at one point I saw, oh, this is going to kill me.

I can't think of his name.

I swear I saw in the background Robert Ito.

Oh, interesting.

totally uncredited unspeaking one of the people dishing like soylent whatever out on the on the thing i saw oh it's a sam from quincy and then i suppose that's possible never saw him again you know but that would have been early enough in his career doing extra works probably exactly what I don't know.

I don't know.

But it pretty distinctive looking guy.

So I saw him back there.

I thought, oh, we're going to see him again.

Nope.

Nope.

So and because I didn't go back and watch it again, we also have a you know, we have a scene in the church.

We have the priests.

We have people doing confessions.

We have Simonson obviously going down to the church to do do a confession.

And so, by the way, I just looked it up on IMDB.

And yes, he is uncredited, but his title is shoe seller.

He was doing something in the background.

It could have been shoes.

He was definitely selling something.

I thought it was the food market.

So he's listed under Soylent Green, an uncredited shoe seller.

So yeah, good eye, good eye.

Cool beans.

Yeah.

I am not going to get shot down for somebody saying, oh, you just think all Asians look alike.

It's like, no, I saw Sam, damn it.

I saw him.

Yeah.

He was my favorite part of Quincy.

Apart from, you know, solving the crimes.

Right.

Anyway, so yeah, certain amount of religion in this, but it seems to be pretty useless, huh?

A bit, yeah.

You know, when a rubber hits the road, you know, you got to eat.

yep do you anything else i don't think i do um other than this was edward g robinson's last acting gig oh you dirty rat 100 oh his 101st film wow and he died a few months after this he had terminal cancer and apparently and i got the i lifted this from wikipedia but uh Charlton Heston wrote, he knew while we were shooting, though we did not, that he was terminally ill.

He never missed an hour of work and was late for a call.

He was never less than a consummate professional he had been all of his life.

I'm still haunted, though, by the knowledge that the very last scene that he played in the picture, which he knew was the last day of acting he would ever do, was his death scene.

So, yeah, that's a...

Huh.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I...

Hmm.

Yeah, one of the great actors, Edward G.

Robinson, is in this.

We haven't really mentioned him other than he's the guy with the books.

Yeah, and the beret.

And the beret, right.

Right.

And I guess he's got an ascot too, doesn't he?

Yeah, he was kind of dressed up.

His suit was, you know, pinstripes, but it was really beaten up and kind of held together with safety pins.

But yeah, still a stylish gentleman.

Ex-college professor, yes.

but yeah that's about it it's a thoroughly enjoyable 90 some minute depressing film if if somebody asks you to recommend a good dystopian film recommend them watching this you know soylent green is definitely a a sad sad film it's it's good the story is interesting yeah there's some hokey special effects but yeah were there special effects in this film a couple here and there like when they under d1 like when they under cranked the the scoop coming down on the trucks and crushing the the hitman oh okay that's yeah you're yeah that definition of special effects yeah we're not talking star wars special effects here we're talking about oh we crank the can i yeah i i have a question about the the scoops yeah would that work i don't think so wouldn't you just crawl out of the back right right unless the the drop knocked you out or something like that yeah but there were people clamoring on the in the back that were yeah i don't think that would work so yeah and and definitely if if there was a crowd of people and one of these trucks drove into them, there would be casualties left and right.

Oh yeah.

You know, broken ankles, broken legs, and then being dropped in the back of the truck, you know, contusions, just being beaten up.

I mean, these, I'm sure a lot of people would die of their injuries pretty quick, pretty quick, especially as frails, many of them were.

Nicely, they're already scooped up in a truck so they can just haul them right out to the disposal facility.

Exactly.

Yep.

Very convenient, isn't it?

Almost like it's a plan.

Hmm.

Well, trust the Soylent Corp.

They have our best interests in mind.

It is easy to pick parts of this film apart and go, oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I can see the conspiracy there.

Oh, yeah.

whether it's there or not it's the kind of film like i said like just like the the the riot the the lack of food on riot day it's like right it could just be they have a lot of riots because there isn't enough food yep it sounds like pretty ordinary thing but it could be orchestrated on that particular day yeah to to end it yeah yeah if if you're ever in a particularly good mood and need to fix that, watch this film.

Just take the happiness right out of you.

I will say this.

If, you know, when we look at post-apocalyptic films, which I don't like, like I said, I have just never enjoyed the genre of post-apocalyptic film.

Hmm.

So you're not a big Mad Max fan then, huh?

I'm not.

No, I'm not.

But, well, Mad Max in particular just makes no sense whatsoever.

Yeah, it's all about gasoline.

Okay, sure, whatever.

Yeah, that one just makes no sense whatsoever.

But, you know, it's, is it a post-nuclear Holocaust wasteland or is that, you know, all of these things, this one feels real.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cause there's not a lot of, a lot of, uh, fantastical beliefs you have to believe, you know, things you need to suspend.

It's everything pretty much looks like it could have been a couple of years down the road in, in New York.

I mean, you don't see computers, there's no flying cars, you know, and there's no laser guns.

You know, the highest tech thing you really see in there is the video game.

And that's about it.

And it's only in there for a full throwaway scene.

Yeah, it is.

I mean, there's no walkie talkies.

He still uses a phone boxes on the side of buildings.

So if you see a, if you see a film or if you have a, someone tell you that science fiction is all about warnings.

Oh yeah.

you know, and which I don't necessarily agree with that idea.

There, there are people that would argue that it has to have that.

Not always.

It does not have to have that.

And it doesn't, no, there, there are other reasons why you can tell a science fiction story.

It doesn't always have to be cautionary or allegorical or, or whatever, but some of them are, and some of them do it very well.

And some of them don't do it very well.

And I have to say, even though I grew up, you grew up with the threat of nuclear war.

And of course we still have that threat, but I mean, I think it was, it was a lot more back then.

It was a lot different back then.

And you could look at these films and say, oh yeah, we blew up the world and now it's the post-apocalyptic.

So yes, I can absolutely see why people made films and did that and go, look, we don't want to blow up the world because it's going to be bad after there.

But when I watched those, I'm like, I'm not 100% sure that that's what the world will look like after we blow it up.

And if we did, you know, but this one, this world, totally buy it.

And my guess is, is that if you did manage to get outside the cities to where the quote unquote farmland is, it isn't.

Just like the oceans, it's dead.

Right.

It's like it's just barren wastelands.

It's just a dream that outside, that's where the farmland is.

you got to protect everybody.

That's, that's BS.

Right.

It's just to keep you in one place.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If, if you want a, a, a movie that is probably pretty accurate for post-apocalyptic nuclear war, go look up the 1984 movie threads.

So you will watch that movie once.

You will not want to watch it again.

It is.

That's a BBC.

Unabashed.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You watch that.

It's like, I'm going to have a sit down for a while.

I don't feel very well.

Yeah.

I mean, I guess not trying to, I'm not trying to, to, to bust on the notion of having a cautionary tale.

And my understanding is I have heard this from multiple sources that Nick Myers the day after, right, which was kind of the American version of that.

It wasn't, wasn't based on threads.

But in other words, there were two shows.

Yeah.

The BBC put out Threads and American television put out The Day After.

Threads is definitely more graphic and more.

Cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The Day After is bad.

And.

Yes.

Ronald Reagan told Nicholas Myers that that film changed his mind.

Yes.

About the survivability of nuclear war.

Right.

Exactly.

So it can do good.

Oh, yeah.

Myers.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I remember watching parts of that when I was a kid in 83.

And yeah, it was sobering.

It's like, what?

I don't know what I'm watching.

Holy cow.

I remember kids get into your desks.

Yeah.

Ducking cover.

No.

It's just some theater to make you feel good before the heat wave incinerates you.

Yep.

Or blinds you.

Nice.

Yeah.

Great stuff.

And then you're eaten by the wild dogs.

Yeah, if you're lucky.

John, thank you for joining me.

Oh, yeah.

I can't wait till the next movie.

It's going to be so uplifting, I bet.

You're welcome.

I think we're doing threads.

No.

Oh, no.

No.

Oh, my cold.

Listers, I do hope you'll join us all again next time on Fusion Patrol.

You've been listening to Fusion Patrol.

Thanks for listening.

If you've enjoyed this episode, we hope you'll consider supporting us at buymeacoffee.com slash Fusion Patrol or patreon.com slash Fusion Patrol.

For our monthly Patreon subscribers, we're currently running a special series on Babylon 5.

Come join the conversation and find other content at fusionpatrol.com.

And we're back on social media.

where you can also follow us on Mastodon and the Fediverse.

Our address is at podcast at fusion patrol dot com.

Our music is Fight the Future by Amber Wolf.

This has been a Lone Locust production.

Next time we start a new series with The Invaders and the pilot episode Beachhead.

where we discuss how every aspect of the protagonist's life is systematically destroyed, paranoia as the episode's core strength and the uncertainty about who is an alien and who isn't, creator Larry Cohen's intended symbolism of the alien's extended pinky, the creative differences between Cohen and producer Quinn Martin, and whether you'd notice the difference between Bud's Diner and Kelly's Diner.

Come join the conversation on Fusion Patrol.

control.