Approche production.

On a quiet April afternoon in twenty twenty four, thirty nine year old Patrick Ledke walked out of his home in Tweedheads and vanished.

Patrick wasn't just anyone.

He was a son, a brother, an uncle, a cousin and an artist.

It was a gentle, creative soul, but also a man living with a disability and complex mental health needs, vulnerable, in need of care.

And yet within days of being discharged from hospital, Patrick disappeared without a trace.

The timeline reads like a mystery.

April sixteen, discharged from Tweedthead's Hospital April twenty two by support worker at home.

The next day, his car turns up abandoned.

Hours later, two witnesses Spotty walking bare foot along a road, and then nothing.

Police launched a massive search, drones, ground crews, even cross border operations between New South Wales and Queensland, but by May first, just over a week later, the search was called off.

Officially, the trail went cold.

Unofficially, it never stopped.

His sister, Nicole has led her own relentless hunt with volunteers and rescue experts, scouring the valleys and the ridgelines where Patrick was last seen She's raised questions that the authorities haven't yet answered in this so Nicole takes us inside her fight to find her brother and cut through the red tape that slowed his case and bring Patrick home because Patrick matters.

Welcome back to.

The Missing Matter.

I'm super excited actually because I actually have this person sitting in the room with me, and it's so lovely to have someone sitting here in person, have a hug and say hello.

We have met before, so it's nice to see you again.

Welcome to the Missing Matter, Nicole, let's kick.

Thank you, Sally.

Today we're going to be talking about Patrick.

Patrick's your brother and he would now be forty.

Yeah.

Can you share with us a couple of cherished memories you have of Patrick?

And you know what best captures who he is.

When I close my eyes and often just throughout the day, different memories come back to me.

We had free range childhood.

We grew up in a silver bus traveling up the coast and Patty was always playing in the gurt with nature with sticks, and as we grew older, he was always climbing in trees.

We sort of went out when the sun rose and played in the neighborhood with all the neighborhood kids on a canal in the water, out of the water, just playing lots of games, and you met with your cousins, and we did spend the whole day doing a play that we were do to our parents.

We've got lots of photos of baby Patty sitting next to me.

So you're older than Patrick.

Yeah, they are all special memories, aren't they.

I remember rehearsing, so i would rehearse a dance and then I'd make everyone sit down and go, I'm going to do the dance now, and do my dance.

And I'm sure, with absolute horror my parents sitting there going.

Is it over yet?

But you know, sturing those moments is that it's really important.

Yeah.

Well, it's traveling around in a bus.

That sounds very adventurous.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We just packed up our life and we were looking for a new place to live.

So my dad and my mum found a bus and they built to a little house and Patty and I we both had the top bunk, so our other siblings were below.

There was four siblings, so we'd be driving in the night, look across to him at the top bunk, we're sort of always together.

We'd bump into each other just we wouldn't organize to meet up.

We'd just bump into each other at our favorite Vedroo restaurant, Okay, just at the same time, at the same place.

It was.

So for me, it's quite complex and hard to wrap my brain around because he's always been part of my life too, because he was always a big part of my life, and you know, he still is a big part of my life, but he was always there in presence, in physical presence.

So over a year without him, it's been a huge hole in my heart.

Yeah, it's sometimes your brain doesn't remember that he's missing.

Still very fresh for you, isn't it, Like this is all very raw?

So I totally understand that time.

So Wan, I wrap my arms around you and just know that we're here to support you and help fine Patty and bring him home for you.

Okay.

I appreciate talking to someone's lived experience who understands.

Yeah, there's a lot of good people out there who mean really well, but I think having that experience and understanding it really sincerely and deeply, and there is an understanding that those of us who are living it have that others don't really understand.

So yeah, I think we're in good company when we're supporting each other as well.

So yeah, the community that has come around me has been amazing.

But yeah, it's just people that haven't known Patrick that have come to help.

But I think also acknowledging the pain of some people that may not have been compassionate.

You know, I'm just really really grateful for all of the positive, but I want to acknowledge that it's not all positive as well.

And I think maybe, in my opinion, some people just don't know how to respond.

You can tell somebody in a situation that you know, my mum's a missing person, and I'm sure you'd be the same that you get different reactions, right, So some people like, oh my goodness, I'm so sorry, what's happened?

And other people just go on with the conversation like you said nothing.

So let's talk about Patrick.

So what aspects of Patrick's personality, like his artistry's gentle nature, love of the nature that he displayed.

What do you want listeners to understand about him as person?

He's a beautiful, kind, gentle person.

Yeah, he was always painting, so his whole world and his whole life was a canvas.

His house it became an art studio.

He would paint at all times, you know, always have canvases.

We'd go walking and he'd be looking for.

Things that were shiny and he'd look at it with the most amazing, white, happy eyes that he located something for his next sculpture, his next artwork.

So everything was seen through the lens of an artist, seeing everything as a piece of art.

So I'd like to remember his art history, and that's how he really wanted to be remembered as an artist.

It was very special to him, very important.

So you mentioned that Patrick was described as neurodivergent with complex mental health needs.

How did these aspects shape his creative expression and his connection to nature.

You know, neurodivergences that you may have different thinking to other people.

So you know, you see the world through different lens, and it may be that a lot of the world is designed for neurotypical people.

There's a lot of lights that are bright.

He liked low dim lighting.

He liked low sounds.

He were and he's canceling headsets.

He liked quiet spaces.

I think when he painted, he was in that world where he can bring out his true inner self, which he was very very quiet person, so he didn't say too much in words, but he said a lot through art.

So he wouldn't find any writing or any diaries, but throughout his houses or pictures.

Which paint of story.

Right.

Yeah, and so you're wearing a feather in your hair.

Can you tell us a little bit about that.

Yeah, So he had real connection with nature and would always wear feathers.

So when he went missing, I just felt really connected to nature and feathers like he did.

And I started wearing feathers, and I started finding feathers, and even through really difficult periods of time, sometimes I'd be crying through and then like a feather would be there, and I'd know he was with me spiritually, and he was just looking out for me as he did in life.

For me, I'd sort of collected all of these feathers.

They would just be like at the start of searchers or the end of searchers, or for a period of time there may not be it just was something that came into my path.

Was intactively seeking, they just were there.

I felt that it helped me throughout the journey.

I had this little altar team.

So I'd collect the feathers and some really amazing feathers, and I was learning a bit more about those birds, like a pheasant cookle that came visiting and hadn't seen this beautiful bird.

Then one of the search teams she knew how much the feathers meant to me, and she gave those feathers to me.

We'd located on a property that was searching for Patrick, and they'd be beautiful feathers or is that wind They're like orange with black stripes, and it's just like a beautiful bird with fans out.

And actually saw the bird few times.

I saw it just outside my mum's house, like how Patrick would come over all the time.

And then at Mother's Day it was in my driveway whomen came home.

And I was like, yeah, and that's a nice comforting thought, isn't it to know that we can sort of grasp onto things like that and know that maybe they're they're they're helping us guide us a little bit.

Okay, well, I know this is a very traumatic experience to go through.

I completely understand.

But can we talk now about the day he went missing?

Yeah, Now, on the day he disappeared he was last seen at his home at two pm by his support person.

So we only have the information from the support worker.

He was discharged from hospital just right before that happened, and then he just had returned home.

So on that day we got information from the support worker that he wasn't feeling well and that he had gone to sleep.

But when I spoke with police, what their report was was that he was packing up his car.

So he's with the support worker at home till two.

Was the support worker having a break the support work from time and was going to come back later to support him and put him to bed, And when they came back, he wasn't there.

So they came back at six o'clock.

Then they said that they've knocked on the door and he's not answering, so they're ring my mum and she went round there to open the door to wait for him till the end of the nine o'clock to see if he had returned.

But we do know that that's support worker left as soon as my mum left and didn't make effort to stay.

Well, that's disappointing, isn't it?

Very painful?

And so the report that's come in from the police version that he was seen packing up his car.

Have they alerted you as to who was the witness who saw that happening.

Well, this is a support worker.

So we're just concerned about the two different inconsistent stories, okay.

And you're in such an early phase in this investigation that you haven't obviously got to inquests and things like that yet.

And we're still holding hope that Patrick is still alive and he's surviving in that area and hopefully we will find him.

That's the whole goal of us helping share your story too.

So just going back, it was Monday, April twenty second, twenty twenty four that this happened.

On the next day pat tricks car was found at Coppa kai and whereabouts his Coppa Kaie.

So Coppakaye is only like ten minutes from his house in Tweetheads.

So if we're talking tweed Heads, Tweetheads is actually on the border of New South Wales and Queensland, and so is Coba Kaite in New South Wales.

Still Coppaqeye's in New South Wales, Okay.

Yeah, So if you know collin Gata Airport and then on the Queensland side and then on the New South Wales side, it's Tweetheads.

Tweetheads is quite built up and then you go right, it's quite rural.

Yeah, so you're only ten minutes away from town, but it's a lot of grazing farms and rainforest areas quight close to the city.

Yeah, and Tweetheads is a big area that borders onto New South Wales Queensland border.

So that's a whole nother thing we're going to talk about later as well, because you and I that's something similar that you and I have with our cases, that there is that Queensland New South Wales problem.

So what was your reaction when they came across the car?

Well, we were only told on the Friday, So the car was located and she reported that to police on Tuesday or only told on Friday?

So then who is she?

Who's the lady who reported it?

Just like a local community member?

Okay, so they found the car and just called the police.

She saw it on the Monday, but yeah, she reported on the Tuesday.

Oh okay, yep, she did see it there on the Monday, the twenty second, she was on number to report it and then on Tuesday she reported it to police.

She continued to report it every single day.

She did report it on Wednesday, the next day, then she continued to report it on Thursday.

It wasn't until Thursday that there seemed to be taking attention.

They actually said to her that we've run the redro that's Patrick Lidkey's car.

Do you know him?

And she said no.

So they even asked her to arrange a tow truck.

To remember that, there was no sort of urgency or follow up.

So it's a very big question because this was not told to me by police.

It was told to me by community.

So the police said to her, this person in the community who's found your brother's car, can you organize a tow truck?

And where did they want to take the car?

I don't know.

Wow, I don't know why.

I'm surprised.

I'm sorry.

I'm just somethings you hear and you just go wow, that's a bit next level.

So he'd been reported as missing at this point.

As he was reported missing on the.

Tuesday, Tuesday after he didn't come to Okay, supposedly leaving but asleep at home.

Wow.

I can see your frustration and your confusion with all of that, because it's quite confronting.

Really, isn't it to know that there's such an imbalance in the information.

Well, it's beyond devastating.

I know that if they had gone there immediately.

He was walking around on Wednesday, the twenty fourth of April and very close to the location of his car.

His shoe was found outside of his car.

Because what they do with the search radius, they do the four point seven kilometer radius, but the time, how far you can travel in a day.

Timing is really really important in missing person searches.

Yeah, action straight away, don't wait.

I know.

I was watching a TV show last night actually with Chris and someone went missing and they went in and reported the person missing.

They said, oh, come back and talk to me in forty eight hours, and I just I just shook my head, thinking, why are you even promoting that on a TV show that that's the norm, because it's so detrimentald.

So we lose really valuable and important information in that critical time.

Action needs to be taken more so.

And I guess that all comes down to the police saying, oh, well, we lack resources, we don't have time to go on do that.

But that's why we probably need an agency or you know, I don't know.

It's something to help us where we can actually put those methods into play straight away and immediately as soon as we know someone is missing, we will put those actions out because.

It's similar to an emergency.

It should have an immediate response, it should have a missing person team out there.

And if I agree, I think you know.

The question about resource is if you go and have a look at Tweed Police Station.

It's a very large, twenty four hour, well resourced police station.

It's not a local small rule.

It's massive.

Yeah.

And they use it as a bit of a hub too, don't they, Because I've been there twice.

I went there in twenty ten myself to do my first statement a long time after my mum had been missing, and then I had to go back down when the homicide team took over because there were errors in that first statement and I needed to have them corrected.

So between and the twenty four hours, there's a lot of twenty four hours in between before they started searching.

So the missing person elurch and go out Thursday, the twenty fifth of April, and then on Friday they rang in the morning and my mom was she was just like she was just like Nick Niki and I knew something had happened, and she said they found his car, and I had information from the police that they wanted me to identify something.

So just my brain went to the worst possible scenario.

It was just the most horrendous experience.

And that's a long time.

We're talking like four days effectively, aren't we.

So I'm so sorry that you had to do that.

And I know that you've told me about these footprints which you found right in crumbin Valley YEP, which is for those again who aren't geographically in the space, this is actually now back in Queensland.

So I was on the police search which started on this Saturday.

On the Sunday, they told me that they were looking at packing up and everyone was going back to work and the volunteers would end the search.

So they were looking at wrapping up the search after two days.

So I brought friends with me and family, my sister's partner, and we were searching with them and I said, what's up that way the road Like I was just following the straight road and they said, that's crumbin Valley.

There's a road keeps going.

Up dirt track on a private property that goes to crumbin Valley.

So I just said, where does that road go?

And the police said, oh, we can't search that, that's Queensland.

So I said, I'm going to search that.

I just have a feeling.

I had just like an intuity of feeling to search that way.

It was actually the section that we're working.

It was still pigger Bean and the majority of the footsteps were in New South Wales and there were some footsteps that went into Queensland as well, so both in both states.

And that's when I called the police that was leading the search over the weekend and I said, I found a huge series of footprints.

They're walking in both directions and then Intoansland, right in the mud.

And right then the rain came, right and when the police came on Monday, that rain had washed it away.

It was like I'd found it just before it started, you know, started a downpour, and we started measuring them and taking photos with the police and searching around.

Wow, I'm trying to process.

Yeah, I'm trying to think of you doing that and thinking how traumatic that is even in itself.

So were you there taking photographs of the footprints before the police even came, good on you, Good on you for doing that.

And measuring them, like, yeah, size thirteen and to be walking barefoot.

The police also asked, and we were in the back of the police.

Family went to the owner and they said, it's anyone been walking outside barefoot to know, So, you know, they did some areas, but the police are saint could have been another person that was walking barefoot.

But I just felt that it was so close to the timeline.

I felt like an intuitive feeling just seeing the footprints, and.

So the measurements would have measured up with Patrick's foot as well.

Yeah.

Yeah, And were his shoes found or anything like that or they in the car or near the car.

Yeah, he was wearing slides, so that was found by a police when they looked at the car.

So that was initially when he walked out and Copper Coye walked down to this paddock bush land and it was all boggy and it was like he stepped and I might thought he was just stepped and then it came off and he just kept walking because that didn't really matter to him.

He was just yeah, yeah, okay.

He was just in the moment.

And so I remember you telling me, and I know this causes you somewhat of a lot of anger and frustration, so I apologize for bringing it up.

But you did tell me that there was a sighting of someone who saw him coming out of the bush covered in mud and disorientated.

Can you tell our listeners what happened in that moment?

Well, actually, I walked what eye speculator is Patrick's route, like just working out from the car down to that siding.

Yep.

So I went from the car where it was parked, and then with a group of volunteers and my sister and actually when I came out of the bushland, i'd met a farmer and actually at that point then media was coming up to interview me.

That was only a couple of weeks after he went missing and the search stopped, so'd media coming and he told me the story that he'd seen Patrick and he'd come out out nearly similar to where I'd come out, just following that route at the same point.

And he told me that he asked him it was okay, and he didn't respond.

So this was two days after he went missing.

He was seen by this farmer, Okay, okay, So you know, I just think if the car was reported on the Tuesday.

He was reported missing on the Tuesday, And if we had like a missing person brief out before the Thursday, there would be more awareness to report that.

So you know, he saw him walking, he was covered in march, he only had shorts on, he had his shirt wrapped around his shoulders, no water or any supplies on him, walking barefoot, and then he was just walking up Piggabin rude and then at the end of walking, right at the end where he saw another farmer saw him in a similar state.

But see if the alert had been out and those farmers knew that he was a missing person or that there was someone missing who was neuro divergent and needed help, potentially the awareness would have been highlighted and been more productive.

Right.

I know there's an element because you and I have talked about this of upset that if you see someone and they're in that position and they're covered in mud and they're not talking, that there would be a trauma behind that for you as well, that you know, these people have seen him and they didn't report him or didn't mention it to anybody, because one they probably didn't know he was a missing person because there was no awareness about that in that location, which should be the first and foremost.

You know, if he doesn't have to be worldwide news, right, but at least do it on the local news and on the local papers and say this man is missing.

Can everyone please keep an eye out for him.

He needs some help.

If you see him, please let us know.

But that didn't happen.

Like it's heart ranching.

It's just life changing.

It's just like a lifeline gone, you know.

It felt like the car he had a lifeline gone.

And then I think actually talking to the final was helpful, yeah, for me because it was told to me in a different way from police.

Well, I'm glad to hear that you got to talk to him as well, because that element in a missing person's case, it's a stamp, right, it's a dot point, it's a timeline that you can go, right, oh, will we know that happened now, and you can put that on Patrick's timeline and then you've got the gentleman up the on the same road seeing him as well.

So that's another time stamp for him which we can keep.

But devastating at the same time, that was the last no one siding, right, So we're talking the same week as he went missing.

Days.

Let's talk about the police search timeline, because I think this is really important for people to understand what happens when someone goes missing.

And in my circumstances, my mum's been missing twenty eight years.

I had a situation where I walked into the police station told them something was wrong.

They've listed her as an occurrence only within twenty four hours, no further action required until Yeah, I think it says due to other work priorities.

So we're fast forward to Patrick's missing twenty six years after my mum.

Are we seeing a lot of difference here or are we seeing action by police?

Are we seeing support for you?

I don't know.

I still feel that the significant delay in the time, I just have concerns, particularly when he do the risk assessment, he met a lot of the criteria and he was categorized as high risk.

So he's neurodiversion, he's disabled person.

So that changed the police perspective on listing him as a missing person.

Do you think I think that's what's done by the search teams after Oh, but I think the initial stage with detectives, I think that needs a lot of improvement because I think, you know, he'd be sitting right here.

I know there was like a multi agency search that was launched on the twenty seventh of April, so just going back in a timeline, so he's missing the twenty second of April, that's the last night that he's seen and then they suspended it on May first, so it was only five days.

And how did you feel when they decided to suspend it.

I felt a lot of betrayal that they were leaving my brother, a disable person in the bush to die.

It was incomprehensible.

So at the end of the fifth day, I had spoke to officers and they said that they were going to have a day where they were doing planning for his next search, so they weren't physically searching.

They were going to be planning and they would come back with a renewed search area the following day.

So I rang Queensland Police and I said, just following up about the search for tomorrow.

What's the plan, what's command post?

What time?

They said, yep, we're ready to go.

We're just waiting for New South Wales place to come back.

That's when I rang New South Wales Police and they told me over the phone that they were suspending the search.

Okay, so you made the call, I made them to tell you that they're suspending okay.

So am I correct in thinking that because he was reported to New South Wales Police like my mum's case, he then becomes a New South Wales Police missing person and they hold carriage of the case.

So therefore, when you're contacting Queensland Police exactly like we did, I'm told that New South Wales have carriage of the case.

So we can't do anything.

We need to wait for them.

This is something that I really want to focus on in this missing space and saying and making awareness and saying we should be under one umbrella.

It should not be state by state, because as we've just experienced with Patrick, he's gone from footprints on one side of the border to footprints on the other.

One's going, well, we're not going to look at it because they're in Queensland and the other world.

We can't look at it because they've got carriage of the case.

It should not be happening in twenty twenty five, after everything that's been brought to the surface and spoken about openly, and you know there are people out there that tell their stories because we want to make things better in this space.

I think, you know, I'm really sorry that you had to make that call.

I completely get that because it's a similar thing to me as well, and I just think that needs to change.

Like I'm devastated to know that there's no learning through the system.

So I wanted to bring to the attention that in June twenty twenty five, as part of a training operation involving over one hundred SES ANDVA personnel, they resumed searching.

Was it just for Patrick?

Yeah, okay, and how did that come about?

At the end of Patrick's official search, one of the Queensland Police officers said a training search would happen.

So Queensland Police run regular training searches.

So I was invited to a meeting with Queensland and New South Wales Police and we're just discussing the case, and I was just like advocating.

I said that you've spoken.

I had a list of things that.

I wanted to bring up, and one of those was you stated that there would be a training search.

New South Wales Police said, no, we don't do that.

Queensland Police said, Patrick's on the top of the list, but not to hold your heart onto it.

Someone else may get reprioritized.

So that was in August twenty twenty four.

I was informed.

I kept asking in August and then they said that the training search would be in September twenty twenty four and they said, you know, that's a long way away, and so I just kept advocating for it, and New South Wales Police came back and they said that they would be doing that.

They'd applied to the State Rescue Board for some additional funding, so they also had to do a training.

They did some sort of training exercise.

After all, I wasn't part of that.

I continued searching for Patrick.

And do they use tracking dogs or anything like that in these searches.

They did have four dogs on that search that came up.

And one of the VRA members we went to school together.

What's the VRA stand for VRAS the Volunteer Rescue Association, So yeah, we went to school together, and you said that he really advocated for the search dogs, and they also said that they've been following along and they really wanted to be a part of it, so they brought up their search dogs.

Well, I'm really impressed.

I'm going to say that one of the things that has been a standout for me with you following along and living in this missing space for such a long time now that you are a standout nick in everything you've done with your searching, and you know your petitions to get out there.

I'm going here this weekend if anyone can please come and help.

Absolutely amazing.

So I can only imagine I don't have that part of my mum's story to like where I physically could go and search in a location as such.

But I take my hat off to you, and I'm so happy every time I read something that there's a group of people that are coming together and you post photos and so you are your efforts second to none, so well done on that you've leaked communities with searching, with volunteers, drones, therm or imaging trackers, dingoes.

I personally think that's quite remarkable.

What has kept you going through all of these daily efforts.

Well, I think that connection with community.

I think all those people standing and saying that they too see the value and they're able to give up their time on their weekends or their weekdays with their families, just that human being helping another human being that's in need.

And I think I just have had all these beautiful experiences of people just showing up.

Can you share with us one of those meaningful time so you've spent with somebody who's been helping you.

Oh, there's so many times.

For me, I'm very scared of heights.

This has required me to challenge myself.

So you've got to climb up quite rocky ledges.

And I've had like examy and they're sort of directing me where to put my hand up.

And when I think I can't go further and the world is around me, it's just like a soft voice, Okay, just reach up a little bit further, put your arm up.

I think we've had people run up, come to the search area and just offer a hug, or come to their property.

Sometimes just getting a hug is just all you need, right Like I know, people come up to me sometimes too, and I'll be getting a coffee and they'll come back and say, I hope you don't mind me coming up and letting you know I know your story and I just wanted to give you a hug and say you're brave.

And the power that that brings to a person, it can just lift you up.

Yeah, it is the power for the community.

I think in missing person cases predominantly, I think often it's just a small piece of information from the community that really really helped.

You've mentioned to me the invisible New South Wales Queensland border and the complicated coordination.

Can you talk more about how that affected the speed and the efficiency of the search.

Well, I just draw back to just one experience where I was with police dogs for New South Wales and we got to a point We're at the border and he couldn't search over it.

And then I was with Queensland Police on the other side with their police dogs and then we got to a point and then we couldn't go over it.

Yeah, it's just complicating.

I think if you have like a one central point and one person working predominantly a missing person like I think, if you understand all the research around how important the urgency is and how important like borders don't matter, like I think if you look at Aboriginal torres straight on under cultures borders with physical borders, there was a physical river and that defined borders.

But with the borders that we have, it's a line in the map, you.

Can't tell, like if you're standing there, you would not know.

That's a border, So you don't need bureaucracy and things holding it down.

And then I got to see with him stepping over the border they ran Queensland Police.

I got to see how both Queensland and New South Wales police were similar or different and what level of resources or not was.

What was your biggest standout in comparing the two.

You know, there were so many different standouts.

That Queensland came in and it seemed that they were more predominant.

They had bigger crews of police, whereas New South Wales they had like a police officer that came up from Lismore.

I found that when we had lots more ses come, they were coming from Redlands and Brisbane, and I felt like we were getting a lot of people and then some boom, like you know, it was getting bigger and bigger and people hearing about it and the search and they're like it's on media and everyone, and then it's.

A bitter momentum happy And is that when because they suspended?

Yeah, that was when it was suspended.

I think, yeah, just seeing that Queensland wanted to continue.

What reason did New South Wales police give you for suspending it.

They had just said that they would require military resources now because he may be in out of the search area, out of that four point seven kilometer arabius.

So that's when I just started looking for ex military offices.

That's not even a lot.

It isn't when you think that that's possibly for on the first day.

So if they were searching on the first day, that radius would be applicable.

But as time goes on, you know, you can keep walking.

They call it the Nay Smith rule.

You can keep walking.

And it's done on lost person behavior, so not everyone walks in a straight line.

Usually when you're lost, you may walk in circles.

And for Patrick, underlost person's behavior, people with the mental health condition, they have high survivability.

In the book that's written that the police follow Robert Kester in America, and I think when you look at America and you look.

At UK, they don't search with guns.

That was another thing for me, like I think searching, you know, I think, what does Patrick think of all these guys?

You know, police are running around with guns.

One time I was following a police officer or running in there in the rainforest.

You know, he had guns on him.

So confronting, right for somebody who is not drinking, potentially, not eating potentially, so he's disorientated.

They're the sorts of things that people need to think about, don't they, in these searching elements of somebody like in Patrick's situation.

So you and I first met in person last November.

We were in Sydney and I was part of organizing a symposium and you spoke.

There was at that point that you actually mentioned to me that you and I had the same oh I see.

So for those of you who don't know what I know I see is it's an officer in charge and the oh I see that is on Mum's case, and Patrick's case was based out of Tweedheads but also worked down in Byron Bay.

I was a little shocked to hear you tell me that.

Actually, do you remember what you told me about what he told you when we were at the event about I think he said something along the lines of Patrick probably just wants to live in the bush.

Yeah, that was a really hard sort of thing that the police was sort of saying, you know, he's living in the back of someone's banana shad, you know, and I was just like.

But there's no evidence of that.

I did state to them, you know, he loves nature, he loves like living in shack.

I felt pretty heartbroken at that point.

He's a very vulnerable person, and I think that should have escalated the urgency.

We don't want to put some sort of speculation or unconscious bias that Okay, yeah he likes he likes.

Living in the bush, so he's going to live in the bush, so we're not going to keep looking for him.

Yeah, that's devastating.

There was a situation that popped up a little bit later about Patrick's phone and his Google account, and I read somewhere that you were really frustrated because the police had mentioned it but then didn't tell you what the information was because of privacy.

Can you share with us how that felt.

When he went missing, he had his phone on him.

So police have showed me some of the maps where you know, you can see where he is in Copper Pie, you can see his.

Pattern in Tweed he went on those last days.

And I think that that's another lifeline that that could have done urgently immediately.

So i'd given the information to police, have given the passwords and all that.

I hadn't heard anything back from them, so I had my own private team do that, and then I presented the evidence to the police and he'd search a location.

He'd search the Crambin Rock puse and the two neighboring set of properties on this search.

So I just think that that's another thing.

If you have a phone on you, there's a lot of other information in that.

Patrick didn't really use a phone, Like a lot of people said to me, check his emails.

I checked them.

They're empty, Like he doesn't communicate in a way.

I'm not texting people, or he's not on Instagram or anything like that.

He's on Instagram any support workers.

They've set up pages and they've spelled his name wrong.

So he's setting it up to show his artwork.

But yeah, he needed support to do that.

Yeah, but yeah, I was really wanted to.

I provided that information to place.

It seemed it wasn't urgent.

They didn't act on it until I provided the information and was acted upon it.

And I just think that information was critical, Like we've got the data of his location where he could have gone there, and then I was like, Okay, that's some further insight onto where he could be going.

Gosh, it's just a lot of you trying to put the piece together, isn't it.

So do you know if they've acted on any of that Google.

We're lucky that examplice came out around when I got that location from the Crumblin and.

Rock Pools and because currumbin Rock Pools is in Queensland.

So yeah, they had a couple of search and rescue police officers that came out to like sort of come around that area and they're like, you know, this really positive.

And just so we've got a timeline when did you do the Google searching?

Like how long had you been missing?

At this point it was probably around that month, so we'd found April May.

And so I know you're calling for legislative change to mandate faster access to these digital locations and data for a missing person's case.

What would an ideal process look like, both legally and practically to help other families in the future.

Do you think I.

Think if they have access to their phone data or location immediately if it's a missing person, more then they can locate person.

You know, we've got a lot of technology.

If they have technology on them.

Is most days in today's world do right, So that would be the first thing we'd want to try.

And privacy issues need to be lifted.

There needs to be some sort of legal change, because this is something we're all facing is we can't tell you, we can't tell you, and then you've got police over here making assumptions that he's okay, he wants to live in the bush, she's okay, she changed her name and wanted to go missing.

It's the same thing we're talking twenty eight years, nearly three decades later, we're still getting the same language.

Something needs to change.

And I know Teresa O'Sullivan, who was my coroner for my mum, also was the coroner for Theo Hayes, and she made several recommendations.

THEO was a Belgian backpacker.

He was only eighteen and he went missing just when I launched the podcast The Lady Vanishes for my mum, and so it was all very much for me as well.

And I've got to know Theo's family and the people that are helping in his support group.

They're amazing people.

But you know, at the inquest, we know that from the findings there was a digital date trail from his mobile phone, which revealed his last nine movements.

That was a turning point in the investigation for THEO.

However, authorities did face numerous legal and logistical challenges to access that crucial detail and data.

I read in an article by the ABC that was published in July twenty twenty four that the Federal Communications Minister at the Timershell Rowlands So that the government had taken steps to help police and emergency services to locate missing persons, and that changes to the Telecommunications Act of nineteen ninety seven was to allow telcoas to provide law enforcement and emergency services with voluntary information and assistants if it would help prevent a serious threat to a person's life or health.

What's your understanding on this, Nick, Like, are you aware of any new changes that have been implemented and can you see those changes assisting pre existing cases like Patrick or is it only for new cases?

Sinking Patrick's case, it still was a barrier like it was still was.

I had to get other people to help me to retrieve hisse Google data.

I think police showed me the maps afterwards, but I think after that I had a meteor article to show.

Me the location.

But if they had, that's such a clear market, I don't know why that was an earlier so they could go immediately to Coperki.

I've still got questions about how what's the timeframe around accessing this.

Data and does it apply across Australia.

Like this is something that the government needs to be focusing on right It's a big issue, and it's costing Australian taxpayers thousands of dollars every year and volunteers hours and hours of time to search and help in missing person's cases.

Surely you would think that they would release or take off these I feel like they're just big lumps of concrete on our head that are stopping us from actually gaining information to help us find our missing person.

Surely, I feel like there needs to be some sort of action taken.

I know when I was talking to Jay about DES's case, he wrote to someone over in Western Australia and about his missing person who's been missing for like sixteen thousand odd days, and that he got told, oh, well, you actually didn't address the person correctly, so didn't actually answer the question that Jay was asking about.

But came back to them and retorted with not even acknowledgment of what you're actually asking and dealing with.

So there's still lots of change that needs to happen in this space.

And I'm hoping by doing these podcasts and talking about it from a real perspective, people will hear it, and people will understand and learn and hear it in our voices.

You know, the frustration.

We're not experts at this.

I'm sure you would agree, we're just fum our way through.

I think it's a matter of prioritization, so privacy would come under life.

We do refer to it as ambiguous loss.

Can be emotionally overwhelming.

Has the absence of closure affected your daily life and your sense of self?

Yeah, the concept of ambiguous loss.

Yeah, so in my case it's you know, physical absence with psychological presence.

For me, having to do like multiple of tasks doesn't give you the space or time for grieving.

You know, people don't know that before you go to work, you're speaking to your search team, or you're planning, or you're writing, investigating, and then you go and you do your day, and then when you finish work, and then you're on the phone to your search team and or.

Then doing total or trying to organize media events or it just is consuming right, Well, that trick kind of I always hate saying this because it's quite trauma in my head even saying it.

But he's been missing for fivehundred days.

Now tell me, how is your mum, How are your family?

How are they going?

Like you are the pillar of strength for them, I'm assuming, but how are they going?

It's just devastating.

You know, we have each other, but you know we don't have him, and it's something that you can't describe how heartbreaking it is.

I think, you know, he's just so vulnerable.

You know, you're always interconnected.

I feel that it's important at this stage.

I couldn't find a reward online for Patrick.

Is there a no reward either?

Okay I have asked police about that and yeah, so no response.

And the reward is such a funny thing, isn't it, Because people go, oh, well, you know, someone knows something, they should just tell you.

And it shouldn't be about getting money for information.

It's probably not so much about that.

For me.

It's about the fact that there's a poster and there's an awareness and there's an announcement in the media.

Officially that there is a reward for information, and sometimes that just alerts people just that little bit more to say, this person's still missing, there is a reward.

Let's try and keep our eyes peeled or let's see if we find something that might help this family.

Thank you for coming on today.

I'm really grateful that you have come up all the way to Brisbane.

It's a long journey for you.

And can we finish with you telling us why Patrick matters?

Patrick matters to me.

He's my beloved brother, he's an uncle, he's a cousin, he's a son.

You know, he painted this indelible mark into my heart and to the world as an artist.

He had kind, gentle approached or through, you know, people that he's meant all across the lifespan have come that they're searching for him.

Friends from school, friends that we've played with in the canal I'd open and they were there.

There's so many people that love and cherish him across his whole life.

He's only had, you know, sort of half a lifetime and just yeah, just because of who he is, just that beautiful, gentle, kind soul and I just when I close my eyes, I see those deep dark brown eyes looking back at me, and yeah, Patty, I miss you and I love you.

And new matter.

Patrick matters.

Next week on the missing matter.

James's blue Toda high Locks was found on a property in Menduran.

I was told that there was nothing that come up in forensics and the car was actually returned to the property.

The car was actually sold for about three thousand dollars.

It was put on marketplace.

It would have been worth seventeen to twenty five thousand dollars.

Just doesn't make it any sense to me.

He hasn't contact in anyone, he hasn't used his bank accounts, nobody's seen him, you know, like he deserves a dignity to be brought home whatever's happened to him, you know, because every human being deserves that.

James was not just just a person or a number.

He matters, you know what I mean.

And he's not He's not forgotten, and he deserves to be found.

And if you just know anything, you just anything at all, the smallest thing can help us, you know, like it might seem insignificant to you guys, but it might be that tiny little piece of the puzzle that might make sense to us.

Or somebody else