Approche production.

In the summer of nineteen eighty five, the coastal town of Yamber was the kind of place where nothing bad was supposed to happen, a holiday stretch of sunburnt days, quiet caravan parks, and teenagers drifting between the river and the sea.

Among them was eighteen year old Andrew Inglis, a gentle, easy going bloke who had been visiting Blue Dolphin caravan Park with his family for years.

He had friends, a routine, and a girl he'd grown up with over five summers.

Nothing about his life suggested danger, nothing hinted at what was coming.

But on the night of December twenty sixth, everything changed.

Andrew spoke to someone through a canvas wall of his tent, and then he was gone.

No witness, a car, no confirmed sighting.

Three days later, his father realized Andrew had never returned home to Sydney, his bank accounts untouched, his plans abandoned, and the Red Datson he was driving missing without explanation.

What followed was nothing, no search, no inquest, no public appeal, and a family left to chase the answers on their own.

Today, Sally explores the life Andrew left behind.

The final moments before he disappeared and the questions that remain lingering.

This is the Missing Matter, Andrew Matters, Well.

Welcome back everybody to the Missing Matter podcast.

This morning's guest is actually sitting with me, which I love.

It's always nice to have someone's sitting in the room with you when we're talking about these very delicate conversations.

Today's missing person we are talking about is a gentleman.

His name is Andrew Inglis and he was just eighteen years of age when he disappeared without a trace from Yamber on the New South Wales North Coast on Boxing Day in nineteen eighty five.

Andrew has been missing for fourteen thousand, five hundred and sixty five days.

And today I.

Am actually joined with the lovely lady Joanne green Cell and Joanne lives in northern New South Wales currently and as many times over the years reached out to help me and JOONI as we sort of fumble our way through my own mum's investigation, be it handing out flyers, going to the library, or even crocheting some beautiful gifts for our fundraising raffles at Mum's II Tea that we recently had in October.

More recently, Joanne has opened up to me about her personal journey living with a missing loved one, and today she's here to share her journey with us all.

So, Joe, welcome to the Missing That Podcast.

Thanks Sally.

It's a pleasure to be here.

Privilege.

Actually, we've talked so many times, and you know, it's nice to obviously I see your face online as well, but it's nice to just give you a hug and say thank you for helping me too, because you've done amazing things in my own space as well.

And you reached out to me when we started doing the podcast because and I remember he's saying to me, you felt awkward talking about it because you didn't want people to judge you or you know, think that you were being silly because Andrew was a boy that you dated some forty odd years ago.

But I said to you, I think it's an important story to tell because there's an ambiguity that lives with you still today.

Going to jump in and talk about who Andrew was.

Take us back.

Let's talk about Andrew.

Sure, he was only eighteen, you were seventeen.

Yep, he was born in the seventh of February in nineteen sixty seven.

So by nineteen eighty five you'd known Andrew for five years, and given his youth and yours, how would you describe the person he was becoming at that time?

Oh?

Look, I think like most young men that age, I think he was probably like we all were at that age, still finding our way, you know, what we wanted to do with our lives.

You know what was important to us, where we wanted to be.

Our relationship was, you know, was very much that holiday thing because we lived in different places and so we really got to spend our time together without really thinking too much about some of those more important things.

You know that you have to start thinking about it to come into adulthood.

But I think, you know he was.

He was a very confident, proud, stood tall, and I think, yeah, just finding his as most of a ten year old men are doing.

You know, what am I going to do?

What do I want to do as a career?

You know, well, he had did very distinctive features.

I'm looking at him here.

He's a handsome guy, big blue eyes, ginger, reddish hair, and stood around one and five centimeter six foot one.

How well do you remember his physical presence and his manner in how he carried himself.

As I said before, you know, he stood tall.

You know, we were both red heads, you know, so that that meant that we had some interesting times and interesting conversations.

We're both very headstrong, a very strong minded person, and some of that comes from my coloring, I suspect, but for me, I just always felt safe in his presence.

He gave me that feeling of safety.

And you know when we were together, he was he was there, he spoke his mind, you know, like me.

We both knew where we stood and he had a good sense of humor, enjoyed a good time.

Yeah, he was fit.

You know, we both were very sports orientated, in different sports.

And so let's go back to nineteen eighty five.

It's summertime in Yamber.

The weather is typically warm and sunny, ideal for beach lovers and camping, and in March that year, actually Yamber, New South Wales was celebrating their centenary, thus becoming a popular tourist destination.

Can you share with us what holidaying in Yamber was like back in the eighties.

Yeah, sure, and I think it changed quite dramatically during that decade when I first started going there as a kid, which was when I was very small.

I don't even actually ever remember having a Christmas in our actual normal home, you know, so we were going to Yamber for Christmas from when I was very small.

And in those days it was a fishing village, you know, so you went there for one of three things.

You went there to surf, or you went there to fish, you know, or just enjoy the beach.

And that was really, you know, the whole purpose for being there.

There wasn't self funded retirees from the southern part of the country, you know, arriving and building houses.

None of that existed.

There was not a not a mainstreamitmarket.

There was a four square and another supermarket of that sort of size.

There was a butcher and a baker and fish and chip shops, and it was just relaxed and easy going.

It was a one copper town, you know.

It was just easy and relaxed.

And then probably about in the mid eighties is when there started to be more development and they started to put residential subdivisions out on the outer parts of town and it started to grow.

So by nine and eighty five, you.

Know, there was more people living there as a permanent yeah, and everybody knew each other.

It was just you know, it was small enough that that was the way.

It was a safe place too, isn't it.

You know, like our entire school would go down and take over Lennox Head Caravan Park, and it was a space where we were still concerned about the kids and we had the dads on Judy, but you know, they'd take all the little kids over to the beach to go and watch the turtles climber, you know, the sand, and you know they were doing hide and seek and riding their bikes down to get an ice cream.

And so tell us, how did you and Andrew first meet?

So my family always stayed at the Blue Dolphin Caravan Park, and that was where his family was staying that year.

I think it was probably the first year they've been, to be honest.

And you know, there was this rickety old timber jetty that went out into the river because it is on the Clarence River, and my parents were lucky enough after many years of going there, it was secured a site that was right on the river and right near that jetty, and on the end of the jetty there was a bit of a pond turn, and you know, as a kid, I was always happy on the end of that pond turn with a fishing reel, initially in that a rod and bait as long, you know, I could sit out.

There for hours.

And one day Andrew and his brother turned up to do the same thing, and so we met with a fishing line or on the end of a pontoon.

Yeah, could you paint a picture for us of what that particular someone was like for you?

Well, you know, obviously that was first relationship.

And I'm using rabbities for those that can't see me only because I still look back and go I was thirteen, you know, and if it was my friend's thirteen year olds entering and talking about or relayationship and being in love, I'd be horrified.

But you know, that was how it was for me.

You know, we spent time fishing.

I don't think the pool at the caravan park had been built at that stage.

It was still a caravan park without a pool, like most of them were in those days.

We weren't yet wandering off to the beach on our own because we weren't old enough to do that.

So really we were spending time fishing and you know, playing cards and doing all of those things and just yeah, just being kids and enjoying each other's company.

But you know, obviously never had had a relationship like that at that point.

You know, never had anyone that had made me feel I suppose like you know, the world revolved around around me.

So yeah, he said, you both love fishing and being in the water, and as you got older, you would go on surfing trips down to the beach.

Is any particular moments that stand out?

You know, as we got a little bit older and we could and there was a bunch of us.

There wasn't just you know, Andrew and his brother and me.

There was actually probably about five or six families that came to that caravan park every Christmas from all over the East Coast, and so we all.

Gathered every year.

And there was you know, a bunch that was sort of a couple of years older than us, which were the older siblings of those that had them, And there was us, and then there was another bunch yea.

And you know, we got to an age where we I suppose were deemed responsible enough to spend the day at the beach on our own and we used to get in the back of my dad had a one ton Mitsubishi ute and we'd jump in the back of that and he'd drive us out to Angary and just this is pre mobile phones, like pre anything like that, and just drop us at and Gary Pools in the morning, probably I don't know, maybe ten o'clock and he'd come back at three and we would spend the day in the pools and then we'd walk around and Gary backbeach on surf and no phones.

If anything had gone pear shape, we would have been in all sorts of grief because you know, we were long way from anywhere.

And you described Andrew as your first love and your protector.

So given his age and those holiday together, how did he show up as a protective figure and caring figure for you at that time?

Oh?

You know, I think it was just that he always gave me the sense that he would step up and step in.

You know, I think, like a lot of teenagers, and this is a bit touchy, but you know.

As a lot of teenagers and teenage girls, and particularly those of us that were strong willed and independent and didn't like being told I did not like I had a strained relationship probably in that period of time with my father and stuff, you know, because I wanted to do what I wanted to do, and I always felt that Andrew would you know, would be there.

So let's talk about his disappearance.

It's reported that Andrew left the Blue Dolphin caravan Park after a dispute with his friends earlier in the day, and that he drove himself off in his red nineteen seventy nine dads in Sedan and I just want to make mention of the Red Jo plague, so New South Wales registration SR eight six'.

Nine and he Left yamba and was never seen.

Again your parents had purchased a holiday house by this, stage so you were no longer staying at the caravan.

Park and you arrive there that.

Afternoon it was daylight saving so it was light still to come and pick up all your, friends Including, andrew to go out for the, night which was the.

Plan but then you found Out andrew wasn't, coming and you went round to his tent and what happened.

THEN i didn't go inside the.

TENT i stood outside BECAUSE i was a little bit, frustrated because you, Know i'm a Very i'm on time you, know so people that aren't where they need to be on the hell when they meant to be frustrate me a little.

Bit SO i was probably a little bit cranky THAT i had, to you, know walk all the way up to the, tent and you, KNOW i would have been in my stilettos and all the things that you wore in you in the.

Eighties AND i just spoke to him through the tent, wall AND i don't remember exactly WHAT i, said but probably, like you, know what are you?

Doing get organized.

WHATEVER i won't use the words that.

He expressed to, Me and he'd never spoken to me in that tone or in that language, before with no thought that that would be the last thing he said to, me or the last THING i said to, him or the last TIME i had a conversation if you call it that with.

HIM i just took my little redheaded, personality went, fine.

Yeah, okay and you, know we're all organized and the rest of us are going and, whatever and he just chosen not to.

Go and he just chosen not to.

Go, yeah for whatever, REASON i had no.

IDEA i don't think at that time that there'd been any sort of altercation between him and one of the other boys THAT i didn't find out until.

Later so you, know we went, out we went to the bowling, club and you, know and after.

That to be quite, honest my brain's very good at putting traumatic things in places THAT i can't find, Them SO i don't remember.

EXACTLY i don't know WHETHER i went back to the tent that.

NIGHT i don't THINK i.

Did i'm not exactly sure WHETHER i found out that night that he had left or the next.

Day and like his, father we just all assumed that he'd gone, home that he'd driven back To.

Sydney that was the assumption that we will.

Made can you walk us through how you remember the timeline of that.

Afternoon, yeah so it Was Boxing, day AND i suppose Being Boxing.

Day despite the fact that over Those christmas holidays we would spend pretty well every working moment.

Together Christmas day And Boxing day were still very much family, days SO i would not have seen him On Boxing, day probably up until that point THAT i came to collect, them because they were big family times for.

Us so MY i would have had my siblings and my nieces and my nephews would have been around at my parents'.

Place they would have been, lunch there would have been all those things that you, do SO i probably wouldn't have seen, him and Probably Christmas day either for the same.

Reason so those couple of days we did sort, of you, know stick to our own.

Families so we'd obviously at some point organize that that's what we were going to do on the, evening and that was probably done a couple of days.

Beforehand you, know the boys by that stage were in their own.

Tent you, know initially when they came, up they would stay with their, parents but then they became a bigger group of.

Them that came a number Of andrew's mates that didn't come there when they were, smaller came as a.

Group they had their own, tent they had their own, cars they had their own tinny and AS i was, told you, know they'd been out fishing and you, know would have taken a few beers with.

Them AND i don't even know what that disagreement was.

OVER i know who it was, with BUT i don't.

Know still, today you don't know what that disagreement was.

About, interestingly because those voys would obviously.

Know, yeah, YEAH i just want to make note that his bank accounts remain untouched and his car has never Been found's, Right so at what point did you personally realize the disappearance was more than just somewhere he went and into the realm of a major concern.

WHEN i found out that he hadn't gone.

HOME i think it was about three days After Boxing day that his father went to a public phone during his mother back In sydney Or camden and found out that he wasn't.

Home AND i suspect it was probably his brother that told me that that was the, case that he hadn't gone home and they didn't know where he.

Was AND i, think And i've mentioned this too, before, SALE i think in my gut at that POINT i knew THAT i wasn't going to see him.

Again don't ask me HOW i knew, That don't ask me where that came, From but my instinct told me from that moment knew that that was.

That And so when Was andrew officially listed as missing and by whom it would have been his?

Father i'm assuming it was his, father AND i would imagine it would have been when they discovered that he hadn't arrived.

Home certainly that would have been when the initial contact with police was.

Made, yeah in terms of an official missing person's.

REPORT i don't know the timing of, that but certainly there.

Was my understanding is that when they found out he hadn't gotten home three days after he, left that would have been the first contact With New southwest.

Police.

Yeah and AS i, said you, Know yeamber at that time was a one copper.

Town there might have been a couple of extras around because it Was, christmas that it would have been a long way from their, PRIORITY i.

Imagine, Yeah AND i mean we.

All know that people can walk into police stations and say someone's, missing and whether they take a report or.

Not that's another, thing.

Right, Yeah so reflecting on, that what are the what ifs that you still carry from that?

Night what IF i hadn't walked, away you, know what If i'd gone into the tent and had a.

Conversation what If i'd tried to understand better or more what was going on with him that summer because something was bothering him that?

Much on?

You but, again you KNOW i WAS i was just that age and it was that environment where he.

Didn't talk about things like, that you, KNOW i JUST i NEVER i did ask the boys and they sort of a bit offhand about.

It you, know everyone was just there to have a good time and enjoy their, summer and you, know let's not get too, heavy and you, know let's not let's not dive into you, Know god forbid anything emotional or.

You, know that just wasn't what we were there to.

Do you, Know so my what If i'd.

Convinced him to come with us that, night If i'd sent the others without, me If i'd any of those things that could have changed that split second that sliding door not.

To sliding nor moments missing person's.

Cases and you're not alone in.

That AND i know it's hard to pull yourself back through BECAUSE i do the what ifs all the time as.

Well it's not good for.

Us but the REASON i, ask AND i don't mean to cause you any stress by, asking is more to give people that understanding of when you're living in this and it's forty years, ago so you, know forty years, on where do we sit and what do we ponder?

About because there's still something that you ask every day of your.

Life and that's what we call ambiguous.

LOSS.

Yep, so While i've been Researching andrew's, CASE i was alerted that on The National Missing Person's register that they've noted his last sighting was at a place Called Summer hill In New South.

Wales it's eight hours away From.

Yamber now you mentioned that his mum lived In, sydney and we won't talk about where they live, specifically just for their, privacy but they didn't live In Summer.

Hell what did you make of, This.

Joe, WELL i don't THINK i realized that until you raised it with me like that just astounds, me you, know BECAUSE i think it says that he was last sighted in Summer hill on that.

Day that's an absolute.

Impossibility it says it's eight hours From.

Sydney now it's and in THIS i know where it.

IS i lived In sydney for ten.

Years it's in a city.

Suburb and was.

There any connection, Too i'm not aware of any.

Connection none of his family lived in the city Of, sydney none of his mates.

Did and you could not have driven.

From yeambert To sydney on the roads in that time, frame in probably anything under nine.

Hours you, know this is before all of.

The bypasses Around buller deal are Tarree Kempsy Maxwell, grafton they're all there, now those places you had to drive, through.

And this Is boxing, day you, know one of the busiest times of the year on the.

Road there is just no way he could, have like if he didn't, leave AND i can't remember the exact, time But i'm going to say somewhere between six and eight.

Pm if he left during that, period there is impossible for hinja have gotten back To sydney by, midnight which is when that day, finishes.

And it's storming and it's steet roads and he's in a.

Dats i'm going to put photos of your up on the website and on our socials so people can look out for the car.

Too but When i'm, googling that's eight hours in today's.

World but that would have taken maybe thirteen to fifteen, hours even sometimes depending on the.

Traffic, yeah, yeah you, KNOW i think at that time of the, night you, know you probably would have done it in.

Ten but it doesn't matter whether it's, ten whether it's, thirteen it's still.

Impossible, yeah it's.

Impossibility unless it's five, hours it's.

Impossible and there is no connection That i've ever been aware of to, something, hell even to this, day none of his family live in that part Of.

Sydney even now forty years, later some of them live In, sydney but none of them live.

There and that concerns me because you, know you've got a national database that actually has his profile there and it says that that's where he was last.

Sighted so if someone did hear this and they, went, OH i remember seeing a six foot one, tool, redheaded blue eyed fella In yamber On Boxing day and they look up the profile on the national database and it, says, oh he went missing From Summer, HILL i must be.

Mistaken that's actually.

Important it, is So i'm hoping that we can probably try and get some clarity on that would be.

GOOD i have to assume that there's been some sort of report from.

Somebody surely the whoever's, responsible whether it's THE afp or The New South Wales police or whoever is responsible for creating and keeping these, records don't just pluck these things from their Proverbial so It's.

New South wales just so you, Know New South Wales police have to give the information to THE afp for it to go on the.

Database so When i've got all these errors where my mum was last seen At Surface paradise bus stop where she was actually In.

Southport for them to change it at THE, AFP i have to jump through hoops and Get New South Wales police to update it therein and they have to update THE, afp SO i can't even give them the.

Information so it's very convoluted and very.

Frustrating so talking about that more of my SEARCHING i was digging through because you, know there is not a lot About andrew right and this is one of the key THINGS i wanted to do in doing this podcast was bringing awareness to people who, matter particularly if there is nothing really out there about.

Them The Dough network have a profile For, andrew but they Have andrew's birthday.

Incorrect they had it as the second Of july nineteen sixty.

Seven and WHEN i was just confirming my notes with, you you said to, me actually his birthdays the seventh Of february nineteen sixty.

Seven maybe someone got The american sort of date mixed, around AND i was, like this is so, important and this is what's out there for people to.

See this is also noted in an article THAT i found dated the eighteenth Of november nineteen eighty six in The Sydney Morning, herald as well as having him as nineteen years of, age and he was, well he would have been nineteen because it was this article was written In november of nineteen eighty.

Six, however he was eighteen at the time he went, missing so they really should have him as an eighteen year.

Old and there's a quote there which really bugged, me and it's saying the police report comments that the parents believe their son's ego.

Is defleated and that's why he's not been in touch with.

Them what do you make of?

That it feels to me like a very small amount of words out of a much bigger, picture taken completely out of, context which you.

KNOW i know the media can.

DO i don't know BECAUSE i haven't had those, conversations BUT i suspect, that you, know at some point there was a question asked about why perhaps they thought he had left.

Or do you think he's the kind of guy that had a big ego that he would just leave everybody behind for no apparent.

Reason, no or if there was a dispute like would that have been big enough for him to walk away and Go i'm leaving my entire family, no.

Certainly he was very.

Proud AND i know there's a lot of conjecture in this space that you, know.

This is why we have things like the free telephone call or you, know before all the telephone boxes were, free you, know there was a day or whatever it was a year where people could make phone, calls you, know for, nothing and why we have things like leave a light, on and you know a number of other, things because there is a perception that when people choose to, leave which is different from an environment where there's third party involvement like there has been in your mum's case and many many, others is that it's harder for them to come home and face the conversations of explaining themselves or, whatever so it's easier to stay, away AND i suspect them in some cases that.

Happens i'm not knowingive to the fact that perhaps that's the, case but you, know for, ME i think that would happen more often in cases where coming home with the family environment is not a welcoming place to, be where there's issues at, home you, know whatever they may, be that wasn't this, situation you, KNOW i can't accept and you, know maybe that's just my way of.

Coping BUT i can't accept that he made a conscious choice to just stay away, Forever like that's just not the PERSON i.

Knew, pigetted, sure Proud pigetted absolutely.

At anyear old, boy, Right so that has its.

Limitations it's a big, call isn't.

It and from all public, records there appears to be very.

Little actually there was no formal, searching there was no.

Reward there's no inquest on record that we THOUGHT i could find.

Anyway and you stated that none of his mates were interviewed at the, time not That.

I'm aware, of none of.

US i certainly wasn't spoken to him to the best of my.

KNOWLEDGE i, mean the family would have, been and maybe his.

Brother But i'm not of any, investigation IF i want to use that word at.

All and you said that missing men appear to be a lower.

Priority you, know, what in your view were the early investigation.

GAPS i just don't think there was.

One so that's a a massive.

GAP i think, again like you've spoken about many, times you, know an, assumption and he did leave of his own free, will Like i'm not disputing, that BUT i think then there has just been an assumption made that he stayed away of his own, choice and you, know then he'll come home when he's.

READY i think that was the, attitude that he'll come home when he's.

Ready and you, KNOW i can remember conversations ABOUT i, know, well there's certain things happening in the, Family he'll be home for this, Birthday i'll be home for that.

Birthday AND i just remember saying he's not coming.

Home everyone just thought that he would come home.

Eventually SO i think there was never any focus on the fact that maybe something had gone.

Wrong AND i guess there's an element of hope there too for everybody involved to, go, well you, know we hope he's, okay and we hope that he is, okay and maybe it is just his ego and maybe he's just having a moment and he wants to come.

Home but, sadly we're up to, fourteen five hundred and sixty five days now of thinking, that and we have to sort of be realistic as to the reality of.

That and there is a chance he could be living somewhere happily and no one knows about.

It but it's good to have these, conversations and you, know it just takes a phone, call AND i know your position on, this AND i probably sit with you just from What i've read and What i've looked.

At BUT i do understand the hope and the, like even you're talking about things like leave a light.

ON i, remember before we found what we.

Found with my mom's, case sitting there going what WOULD i say to her if she came?

Home AND i always had this fear if she was alive and, well like the police were telling us on, repeat and that she chosen to, leave that she would definitely come back at some, point and she just.

Hasn't And i'm not close to forty.

Years but it's a long ride and it's.

Hard hard to.

Manage so we Mentioned andrew's car, before AND i did MENTION i was going to pop photos up for everyone to have a look, at BECAUSE i think it's really the key to this investment.

Mitigation do you know if the car registration was ever, traced like if there's any leads that have emerged from the vehicle's.

Disappearance so my memory of my understanding was that those basic fundamental things were done in terms of checking on whether the car was ever transferred the.

Registration my understanding is there was nothing.

Found, NOW i can't tell you where my understanding comes.

From at some POINT i probably had a conversation with someone to ask about, that or maybe even did my own.

DIGGING i don't.

Remember it's a long time, ago but my memory is, that, yes there was some basic checks done on the car and nothing was ever.

Found AND i imagine it's quite hard for you, too because you're not he's next of.

Kin you were a girl that he loved and cared for for five years on your summer, holidays five weeks of every, year so it wasn't like the police were going to tell you.

ANYTHING i, mean they'd tell me hardly anything a.

Daughter so it does make it very.

Difficult AND i know you've got good relationships with his family and you have kept those relationships for, years And i'm sure.

That they've told.

You that's PROBABLY i would think maybe you've blocked, it but maybe they've told you information Or.

No we've never really had a.

CONVERSATION i had conversations with his, brother But i've never had conversations with his.

Parents it just never felt like it was something that they're going to talk.

ABOUT i have been working in this particular space of identifying vehicles potentially connected to my mum's.

Case and it is possible if a car is scrapped for, metal that records could have been, provided both registration AND vin, numbers which is an ENGINE.

ID i understand it's probably hard for, you like as we just talked, about to Suggest andrew's, family BUT i wonder if this is something that they would be interested in checking and confirming with, police even down this far down the, track because they might have done it forty years, ago, yes but have.

They done it since and is anything popped?

Up there should be a red?

Flag AND i mention it Because andrew's not on, anything so no one's.

Checking there's NO i, see there's no one just keeping tabs on.

It so that was just my thought of that.

Moment and another IDEA i wanted to share is.

Water so one of my guests to The Missing matter Was Jason, salisi whose Dad, nicola went missing In tasmania in two thousand and eight and he was last seen.

Driving And nicola was sixty nine years of.

Age he just started that dementia pathway and the boys were sort of talking about what was going to happen with.

Dad, next and they'd also been talking about his license actually being canceled because he was just getting to that point where it was becoming a little maybe potentially unsafe for him to.

Drive jason's been.

Working tirelessly to find his, dad along with his Brother, nick and one of the amazing people that have been working with them is down Under.

Dan no one has.

Dive dan and the boys have been looking at the theory That nicola's may have run off the road into a body of water and using sonar to locate sunken, Cars and in actual, fact what we talk about In jason's episode is that when they were looking For nicola's, car they actually found another car that had a missing person connection and he was Still Dale.

Nicholson he was actually still in the, car and so they were able to Bring dale back to his family and bring him.

Home BUT i just got my brain thinking a little.

Bit And we're also going to put a map up of the amber BECAUSE i want people to see what this is.

Like and it kind of comes home a bit to me.

Too and a weird THING i haven't told you IS i kept having this dream About, mum AND i feel weird saying this Because i've talked about dreams, before but this is what we.

Do our subconscious just goes into.

Overdrive And, yamber for my mum is in the, mix and there's a current of water that's coming in from the ocean into sort of like a catchment, area And i'm trying to get across.

It and my mum is living in one of the houses, there and her Sister braun is living next.

Door there's nothing more to the.

Dream it's just a weird coincidence that it always seems to Be.

Yamber and that's probably because people have told, me like there's been comments.

Made Rick blum made a comment about By, luca which is all in that sort of same neck of the, woods, Right and Then i've got people messaging me, SAYING i believe your mum's in a bit of a car in the.

Water it's in a body of, water and so your brain just goes into.

Overdrive.

Right but looking at the, map AND i want to put it up there for everyone to have a little look at, too BECAUSE i think it just paints a picture the coastline there In.

Yamber there's lots of, water like everywhere you, look AND i.

Wanted to ask in your opinion at that any roads that you're aware of around the caravan park or getting even back out to the main, highway because what people don't probably understand and you will see it on the.

Map BUT i wanted to ask, you was there any bodies of water that you think potentially If andrew was, driving he was.

Going i'm going back, Home i'm going To.

Sydney would there be somewhere that you think the likes of Diver dam could help look or potentially his.

CAR i think there are any number of places on that road where that could have.

Happened AND i say that because when people look at the, map what they will notice which you.

Don't you could.

Drive off the highway To amber at gazillion, times and.

If you never looked at a map or looked at an overhead, picture you would not realize you're driving From ireland To ireland To.

IRELAND i think The Clarence river has more internal islands than than any other river in The Southern, hemisphere and so you're actually driving from.

One island onto another, island onto another.

Island the road now is still basically right on the river and it hasn't changed much in terms of its path in that forty, years so there's a couple of corners that have probably been.

Improved and The clarence is a, massive massive.

River so the answer to that question IS i think there's probably numerous places AND i wouldn't even know where to, start you.

Know and you, know it is something that has crossed my, mind and it crossed my mind very early on because WHEN i first moved To queensland in the late, nineties there was a young woman went missing IN.

Nusa you, know she was last sight at a nightclub In Hastings street and then she never made it.

HOME i think she was eighteen or.

NINETEEN i can't remember her, name but her mother was very.

Proactive she was on the side of milk cartons and all that sort of stuff and.

FASTWOOD i think probably about three years and a man was fishing in The Rouchidor river and he pulled up the inside liner of the inside of a car and they found her.

Daughter but she had just turned down a street and didn't realize that the street ran straight into the, river and just drove herself into the.

River you, KNOW i don't know whether that scenario had crossed my mind before that particular incident, happened which would have BEEN i moved To queensland and ninety, five so we're talking about nineteen ninety, eight so we're still talking, about you, know a considerable length of time After android one, missing over ten.

Years but ABSOLUTELY i think that's more than.

Possible, Yeah and if you think about an ideal missing person's investigations, today what do you feel should have happened In entry's case that DIDN'T i think.

That all of those possibilities should have been.

Explored, obviously if something like that did, happen finding the WEAR i would have been far easier in the days after he.

Left any time after you.

Know maybe there were skid marks on the, road maybe there were break marks on grass somewhere on a, bank something that might have indicated that there had been some sort of on a pole or something.

Like there could be just some little bit of, information but none of that was.

Done, Right, no not to The, star As i'm, aware and just talking to people about not making, assumptions putting every possibility on the table and not taking them off the table until you've eliminated them as much as.

Possible, well it's, important, RIGHT i know for my own self that you, know the assumptions really give me the shit's actually was assuming is what leads us down these paths and it's very hard to crawl yourself back out from.

Those so and, look there was no inquest In andrew's.

Disappearance there's no reward for.

Him do you know of any recent developments that you're aware, of like community tips or renewed?

Interest?

Nothing?

Nothing, Okay, well given the passage of, Time joe And andrew is still.

Missing what would you like to see happen within The New South Wales police to help bring awareness to this?

Case?

Ah, well the passage of time does make it very.

DIFFICULT i think there's a lot of people that go to places Like yamber for holidays that did that, religiously you, know for very long periods of.

Time you, know did somebody see something on the, road did somebody know?

Something and they're just, because, honestly if they're not aware of missing persons, week where.

Really the only time that this pops its head?

Up and whether it be on social media or you, know in the early, DAYS i THINK i told you a story about sitting at work one day reading the career mail and flipping the page and seeing that same photo that we're looking.

At their pop off the, page AND i then people aren't, aware you, KNOW i live very close To, yamber, NOW i grew up very close To, Yamber but other than the people that know me, personally they're not, aware you.

Know and generally people aren't, aware you.

KNOW i did a bit of a search just this week to find a list of people missing in The Clarence.

Valley AND i did that BECAUSE i am going to speak to you later about the possibility of maybe getting some green seats going in my, area AND i wanted to understand AND i THINK i found.

Ten and some of those are also quite old.

Cases some of them are far more, recent you.

Know one of them was a friend of my sisters who was hitchhiking in nineteen seventy, Six.

I'm going to, say and did arrive at her destination and it's never been.

Found SO i think it's very, difficult particularly where there's not really any indication of a criminal, intent you, know because it's hard enough for those of you in that space to get police resourcing for people missing where everything just to misadventure or.

CHOICE i THINK i think it's definitely it's a very difficult thing to get any sort of focus.

ON i think all that can happen is, that you, KNOW i think, if particularly in regional areas Of, australia if when we at least got To Missing Persons, week the local police forces maybe did something more proactive in their various regions to promote, it you, know local shopping.

CENTERS i don't know, what but, something you, know to bring awareness to the communities and where these people have gone.

Missing that's why the green seat came about in my, mind because we do have THE qr code.

There you, know what we're trying to put together is on THAT qr, code people will scan it and will take them to the website and they will see similar images to what we've got here With andrew's, face how many days he's been, missing and it does have the generic poster in.

There and we're working on this at the.

Moment it's still a work in.

Progress but you, Know i've suggested to the boys who are helping me to put THESE qr codes and the website in a different.

Place is THAT i always ask at the end of every episode wide As andrew, matter AND i want to put those voices over the picture so when someone's sitting on that bench and they scan THE qr, code they're not just Seeing andrew that he was six foot one and had blue.

Eyes we are Bringing andrew back to being a.

Person he's not just a, poster just another, statistic another, number but he's actually someone who.

Matters and you, know you've been very kind to share with me how for many years you've spent wondering trying, to you, know work out whether you could afford to get A, pi or trying to and what to say To andrew if he rocked up at your front.

Door and that's a very powerful image of.

Waiting how would you describe what that waiting did to you emotionally and.

MENTALLY i, think particularly for the first, decade ten, years you, know through my, TWENTIES i think you live with a sense of just waiting for something to.

Happen so you're on you're almost on a high, alert, constantly constantly, looking constantly.

Something if something happens that you don't, expect you, know if there's a knock on the door that you don't, expect if there's a phone call you don't, expect you'll know, This.

Sally you, know every.

Time there's a report comes over the news that a body's been found.

Somewhere you, know it doesn't even matter if it's a place where you didn't anticipate it might even be, Possible it doesn't.

Matter still has an, Effect it still has an, effect you.

Know you, know then you're scanning because often those reports will come on to the news and then you don't hear anything more about, it and so then you find yourself to find what the result, was because you know the next news thing has come along and they'd lost.

Interest it's hard to you, know.

None of us know how differently we would have led our lives without the experiences we, have you, know AND i know that that JUST i found that really really hard because the thought of losing someone else probably led to me tolerating behavior THAT i shouldn't have, tolerated because that to consider that someone else could leave me in that WAY i couldn't come to terms.

With AND i, mean you've shared with me too very, privately you've never been, married and you've never been in a long term, relationship and that you've quite often wondered if that has something to do With andrew's.

Disappearance Potentially i've not been.

Unhappy don't get me, WRONG i Being i've led a very full life And i've been very lucky to do many many things That i've wanted to.

Do so this is NOT i don't want people To this is not about, pity this and something about any of those.

Things AND i, agree AND i think that's important to say.

Too AND i know that you were very worried about that coming across in this, chat BUT i think people will completely understand, that you, know there's that element of worrying about being left again and they're not knowing it's it is very difficult to.

Manage and you, know you talk to me about a time about six years After andrew's disappearance when you and your older sister were up In, DARWIN.

Yep and your sister, went oh my, GOD i think there's that, guy the redhead, guy.

And you just went into complete panic.

Mode tell us about.

That, yeah so we're on a.

Holiday we were in a camp e van with two of her kids and we're.

Driven we'd flown Into alice and we're driven To.

Darwin we're in a caravan park just outside Of, darwin and she came back to.

IT i just saw that that bloke that blow From Amber AND i, said what are you talking?

About you, said you know that read had a bloke AND i just.

LOOKED i just remember looking how to go on?

What AND i can just remember my heart pounding and my hands starting to sweat.

It AND i, said where ARE i?

Should you, know just walking?

Around AND i just looked at it AND i, said are you for?

REALLY i, said where are you?

GOING i, Said i'm going to.

LOOK i, said we.

Can't we're going nowhere UNTIL i have seen the person THAT i think you.

Saw and SO i.

DID i JUST i just walked AND i did eventually see somebody WHO i suspect was who she saw and it Wasn't.

Andrew BUT i think that's an example of if you're not in this, space you really just don't get.

It and you, know and that's the same with everything you.

Know if you've never had to watch someone you know die from cancer or, illness.

Then you don't get that.

Either if you've never lost a, CHILD i suspect you don't get you.

Know we, all you, know lived experience in all sorts of things is what gives us the ability to empathize with other people in the same.

Space and you know there's that element where there's a brief, hope, right and then the reality is that in this, case it wasn't.

Him what do you think that kind of experienced us to someone's mental?

Health, WELL i SUPPOSE i.

Remember, that AND i remember seeing the article in the career, mail which was you, know years later than.

That and again remember both of those particular scenarios vividly because of the visceral response THAT i had to, it WHICH i suppose just told me how as much AS i THOUGHT i had to some extent moved on that it was just sitting, there bubbling under the.

Surface and so what does it do to your mental?

HEALTH i just think it drags you back to those, places back to that, trauma back to those very difficult.

Days and not that any of the days are, easy but you, know, TIME i don't even know what the right word.

Is i'm going to say time, helps but that's not WHAT i want to.

Say.

Either it's not good for your mental.

Health but in saying, that you, know it's human, nature, right we don't, forget and either we should AND i don't want to, forget AND i don't want him to be.

Forgotten another very personal moment for, You, joe can you share with us about the letters and the cards That andrew had given?

You, yeah, SO i always there was always a birthday, Card there was always A valentine's.

CARD i grew up in a house immediately opposite my high, school literally across the.

Street they see it in trouble IF i was home, late because my mother used to say to, me it doesn't take fifteen minutes across the, street that's how CLOSE i.

Was SO i would race, home you, know in between periods at school to get to the mailbox at that, time those two times of, year to get to those cards before my parents did you.

Know The valentine's cards always had little poems written in, them and they were that connection that we had through the.

Year you.

Know it was evidence to me that this wasn't just about four weeks In december And, january even though that's what it was in a pragmatic, sense that's not what it.

Was it was far more than.

That tell us what you did with those.

Cards so probably about ten years After i'm going to say it was about ten, years might have been fractionally.

LONGER i did meet another person who was the first PERSON i had met.

THAT i thought that If andrew turned up on my, DOOR i wouldn't just walk away from that other, environment even though that wasn't a particularly healthy one.

Either but it's a different.

Story AND i SUPPOSE i got to a point WHERE i felt the need, to with a lack of memorial inquest, anything have my own.

Memorial for one of a better, DESCRIPTION i.

Suppose so you, KNOW i got those cards and some, photos AND i went and bought a metal bucket and one of my best, friends who had spent some of That christmas holidays with, me one of my, schoolmates came with me and we went out To angary AND i put those things in that bucket AND i lit them, up and THEN i those ashes over the over the ocean And garry at a spot THAT i considered to be our spot with some.

Flowers and that was that was my, ATTEMPT i suppose at saying.

Goodbye, yeah, yeah startbreaking.

AND i you, know IT'S i guess it's like a reclaiming of yourself and trying to let go a little.

Bit, yeah and you're still so, Young, YEAH i was still in my twenties at that.

Pink that's such such a lot to.

Carry, Yeah so you KNOW i feel for, YOU i really, do AND i Mean, CHRISTMAS i Mean Christmas is and, birthdays, right that's always the big.

Ones and the fact that he's gone missing At christmas you've you've sort of said to, me you, know they're hard times for.

You so how do you navigate the holiday season and anniversaries and remind?

Us, NOW.

I, think like most of, us you, know you just have to put one foot in front of the.

Other if you're not going, forwards you're going.

Backwards so you, KNOW i try to focus on on what's in front of, Me, like, Yeah, CHRISTMAS i have always struggled With.

Christmas SO i just try and keep busy and do things and get.

Organized and you, KNOW i don't very often venture To amber, anymore even Though i'm not that far.

AWAY i have it in my mind that this year On Boxing, DAY i might go when it's forty years this, Year BUT i, THINK i, just, YEAH i focused on the.

NOW i JUST i just important and healthy for our, brains, right focus on the, now because you can't live in that space nice or eat your life for.

Breakfast so you KNOW i stand with you, too and you know it's it is an important journey for us to.

Heal you, know that's part of the.

Healing and you, KNOW i think what you've done.

Is something similar to WHAT i have done in the past as, well just with letting go of a few things that you just need to move forward and it's.

Difficult Nicole morris does a fabulous.

Job she runs A facebook page Called Austray Missing Person's register and she ensures every year That andrew is featured on.

There so shout out to, You, nick she KNOWS i love.

Her everybody THAT i know in the missing space who does something In Missing Person's, week they come out the other end and they're absolutely shattered because it's such a, draining hard week to pull, through and when you're doing the stories on, repeat it's very very.

Challenging so kudos to, You nick for doing that and Keeping andrew.

Present so Today andrew's case remains.

Unsolved when you first opened up to me About, andrew you were very clear about the fact that you Aren't andrew's, family but you are someone that loved and cared for, him someone that you still hold very close even after forty, years and that for you coming on the missing matter and sharing your personal journey living with someone a loved one is about bringing awareness to the broader public and about the impact to our community regarding missing.

People what do you hope our listeners.

Will understand when they hear your story that it is always broader than the.

FAMILY i think it touches anybody that knew somebody and how it impacts and touches, them and is obviously very.

Individual but mostly in this, SPACE i hear and see stories about the family and from the, family and that's absolutely as it should.

Be but it's such a bigger space.

Than, that AND i think when you're not, family you're not necessarily privy to a lot of.

Information it can be very difficult to know how to navigate that space when you're not necessarily included in the decision.

Making for, me it's almost Like i'm watching a movie on the outside looking, in but.

You're actually part of that part of that.

Picture you, know we all do when we lose.

Someone And i've lost both my parents and my, brother SO i you, KNOW i understand that space.

Too you, know people aren't really sure how to speak to you and what to say and what not to, say and some people, will you, know and then they'll get to a period of time after someone has passed and they stop.

Asking in this, space people are even less sure of how to speak to you about, it so they typically don't.

You, Know i've said it many times, before just coming up and giving you a.

HUG i want to let people know who are listening to these podcasts and taking time to listen to these.

Podcasts and one thing that some of you might not know about is that when you're looking at statistics on a, podcast some people will come onto a podcast And i'll listen for ten, minutes then they jump off the missing that of.

Podcast we have a very high level of people listening to the entire podcast in its, entirety which is important right because the whole story needs to be, told but it's just showing that there is a genuine.

Interest we're nearly up to seven hundred k followers and downloads of the, podcast which just means that more people are hearing.

It more people are, listening and when you are, LISTENING i want you to know it's okay just to ask your friends if you have someone in this, space if they're a family member or you know a, partner or you know they've known someone who's been.

Missing it's okay to just say are you?

Okay do you want to talk about?

It because sometimes we need to talk about it just to get it off our.

Chest sometimes we just need a, hug and sometimes we might just, go you know, WHAT i don't want to talk about it, today BUT i might want to talk about.

Tomorrow.

Yeah, Absolutely so in helping raise awareness For andrew's, disappearance what do you hope happens?

Next AS i, SAID i think there is a distinct lack of, awareness particularly in Regional.

Australia there's a distinct lack of awareness in my home area of the people that have gone missing in our, area and even people that have had farm or media.

Coverage And i'll use your mum as a perfect.

Example so you, KNOW i drive out of town and there's a, billboard you, know with your mum's picture and the initial.

REWARD i think.

Fifty.

Yeah, now you, KNOW i speak to a lot of people who live in my hometown who would drive past that soone on a regular basis and have never actually seen.

It even though they've seen.

It they might have seen, it but they haven't seen, it if that makes.

Sense interestingly, enough WHEN i was speaking to SOMEONE i work with a couple of weeks ago about the possibility of getting involved with the green seat.

Projects she was aware she'd seen.

It so that's that's important for you, know what might happen going.

FORWARD i would just like to see more awareness tools used.

In, areas particularly in the regional.

Areas you, KNOW i think the police resourcing in Regional australia is poorer than it is in the.

CITY i think perhaps in some, RESPECTS i think the quality of sadly of.

Policing you, Know i've only listen to your mum's, case who only listened to Bromwin winfield's case to know, that you, know there's been some pretty ordinary outcomes on The North.

Coast SO i think it's just about finding a way to put these faces front.

Of mind to more.

People and you, know that's that's that's a, start you.

KNOW i, think for given the length of time for me and For andrew in this, space that a different outcome is.

UNLIKELY i DON'T i don't expect.

THAT i don't anticipate, That but that doesn't mean that we can't make a different experience for someone else in the, future or someone that has this in a far more recent.

Environment so, Finally, joe If andrew could hear this, podcast what would you hope that he would understand about how.

You honor, him how you remember, him and how you live with his absence still.

PRESENT i would want him to know that he's not being, forgotten that that.

Split second decision that he made change not only his life but the life of all of those around.

Him i'm not cranky, anymore so by some miracle he turned.

UP i probably can't express on media WHAT i would probably say to, him but, YEAH.

I JUST i want him to know that he was, loved that he was cared, for and that he was, important and he's not been.

Forgotten and why Does andrew?

MATTER i was listening to your most recent podcast this morning with the, doctor the forensic, Doctor Jamie, wood AND i remember her saying at the end that everybody.

Matters And i'm going down that same Path Everybody matters.

On Nobody matters.

Next week on The Missing.

Matter that same family had to quit their jobs to continue searching for their.

Son family should not have to go through this family.

Should get the resources that they require when they require.

It, sadly our missing person numbers are going up every single.

Year WHEN i first started search, Dogs isn't there was thirty seven thousand people a year reported, missing and last year that number was up to fifty nine.

Thousand the turning point for me was standing at a missing person's.

Grave the family invited me to say goodbye to this young.

Man that's WHERE i made a personal vow on that day that enough was.

Enough