Appod Jake Production.

Well, hi everyone, and welcome back to the Missing Matter.

This is actually going to be just a chat with Jay and I.

We are doing a rap.

I guess it's been a very busy few months for me, and what probably started off as just doing a podcast about what Joanie and I had done on our overseas trip and a little bit of background information on what we had done after the inquest happened, and then I sort of just had this idea that maybe I could help other people tell their stories in a similar way that I did, because I feel like there is a lot more value in listening to the people who are living it rather than journalists telling stories.

And I'm not a journal I'm certainly not a podcaster.

People might suggest otherwise.

I feel about thirty episodes down and I'm writing those episodes.

I'm making contact with the families in a very gentle, careful process because I understand the empathy and the compassion that you need to show when you're doing these sorts of things.

It's very hard for people to pull themselves out of a very raw situation and actually tell these stories.

So I don't rush it.

I don't have generic questions I do a lot of research and a lot of background into the stories to make sure that we can talk about things that maybe people haven't heard about as well and their experiences.

So sometimes the episodes we can talk for two hours each episode.

And hence why I don't have much of a voice of late, because I've recorded three episodes this week.

But we are going to have a little bit of a break over Christmas and before the next season happens, And yeah, Jay and I thought we might jump in and have a chat about how.

This has rolled out.

And so what's interesting about this is today I'll be asking the questions and you'll be answering them.

If that's okay, that's perfectly fine, and I'll.

Be gentle like kill gentlemen.

I'll try it to be.

My first question for you, sala is putting aside the work you did with Joni at the start of the Missing Matter when we launched, and really these last sixteen episodes that you've done around other people's missing persons cases.

How you feeling.

I really appreciate the opportunity that these people give me to be able to tell their stories.

I'm not going to lie.

I'm a little exhausted because I take it on board, and every time I'm telling a story or doing research, I'm triggered again by the fact that this is still happening in today's Well, my mum's been missing twenty eight years.

I really would have hoped that by bringing awareness and doing podcasts like The Lady Vanishers and The Teacher's Pet and Bromwin, that things would be done differently and better.

And it's just not.

And is that when you're hearing known in the last couple of conversations you've had where police have done nothing or all of those sort of things that have happened in your mum's case, you're hearing back from other people.

And in one of the recent episodes that we've just released, you talk to someone who's missing person has just really happened like five months ago, and so you're going, Okay, well, my mom went missing twenty eight years ago, and not lots.

It doesn't feel like a lot's changed.

Yeah, And it's really really stressful actually to talk to those people, and you know, I put myself in their position, and I bring myself back to when I was two hundred and fifty days missing with my mum and how I was feeling fast forward that too.

I don't even know how many days my mom's been missing now, it's probably fourteen thousand, some crazy number.

You know, it's.

Challenging, it's I feel that it's rewarding in a way as well, because we're giving them a voice.

And that's why I wanted to say to you, or you do this with me and help me to edit them and produce them in a really great way so that it's easy listening for people.

You know, I've learned a lot through doing episodes, and I take on everyone's feedback to you know, if that music's too or you know, you're in a cafe and we can't hear you, and sometimes they're just reality of where you are and what's happening at that moment.

You might be driving in a car and you want to try and capture something.

But it's a huge privilege to be able to do this, you know, the idea of doing the missing matter on an individual storyline basis and having an hour given dedicated to one person's case, which you know, in the scheme of things, is not even a lot, right, like we should be dedicating a lot more, but it's better than nothing, and it's giving those families a voice in a safe space to tell us their stories, tell us how they're feeling.

I've become connected with those people on a different level too, because you dive right in right like, I'm becoming friends with these people and wanting to help them and guide them if I can, or just be there as a support person.

But you know, I initially thought of doing this because I think I said to you, I had a lady who actually said to me when I was doing the lady vanishes, She's like, oh my gosh, like I just really want someone to do something about my my dad matters.

And you've got this big podcast and everyone's talking about your missing person, but no one's talking about my missing person.

And that's kind of where this all came from and stemmed from.

And I thought, you know, there are people who get lots of attention in the media.

It's usually trauma driven, which is really disappointing, but that's what selles newspapers and people turn on the TV for unfortunately, and I wanted to be able to share it with people who had no media and had no platform.

So that's where how this whole thing started.

And then I've realized as I've been journeying through and approaching people.

So the people who are active and are on social media and are trying to do Missing Persons Week and doing whatever news and media they can, they're the ones that had jumped in straight away.

And the people that haven't got it are the people that I've approached and they've said, oh, yes, I'd really like to, but then I never hear from them again.

So this podcast will only keep working if people actually want to help share their stories.

And we do have a little bit of a lineup for next year already.

I've been talking to some people and some really important and unbelievable stories actually of what's coming in the next season.

But it does come down to the fact that it's up to the families if they would like to join us and telling their stories and.

Helping them, and if you're happy for me to talk about it.

I think we had a conversation no less than three weeks ago where yourself, myself, Chris, and Lauren sat down and talked about whether the Missing Matter would continue.

There was a bunch of things going on at that time.

There's you, which is you bear the brunch of these conversations, not taking away from anyone that's sharing the conversation with you, but there are a lot to take Equally, what you thought would be a plethora of people who hadn't had their stories told are harder to find, and some don't want to tell their story.

And so I think what you're saying is that if you do know someone or have someone that's that's been impacted by a missing person story and hasn't had their story told, then this is a safe, gentle space to tell that story.

And I think the feedback that we keep getting is that the podcast is excellent, Like I'm getting such good feedback.

And I woke up yesterday morning actually and my daughter and her partner they're all texting me because they're at work, and everyone was like, oh my god, your mum's podcast has made the top twenty five for twenty twenty five.

Wrappa episodes are wrapped, and that was actually it wasn't the Missing Matter, but it was me talking about the Missing Matter with Gary Jubilan, which made the top twenty five episodes.

And to capture that, I was doing something yesterday and I've got a bunch of friends that obviously listen to podcasts that we make, and we obviously make a few, and I had a few.

Text me wan Amanda in particular, who her top show for twenty twenty five was The Missing Matter.

Yeah right, and she said I'll post it later and I was like, oh, that's lovely.

And she doesn't have a missing person, but she's interested in hearing the stories to try and help me.

Wherever she can.

And look, I've always been a big put my hand on my heart and say, this is not about winning awards, right, this is about reach ye, and it's about exposure and understanding and teachings.

Because the amount of people that I talk to and they don't know what a piece of an NIB form is or they don't know what a grant approbate is, so they don't understand that going through the stress of trying to get a death certificate when you have a missing person.

And I'm sure Cas won't mind me mentioning this, but she texts me this morning and said, sal I'm getting ready to do my death certificate for Aaron, but it says where was his body located?

She's like, He's not located, Like, how do I.

And so this is this is the problem right that we're faced in the missing space, and it's just about bringing some awareness, bringing a lot of support, is what that's about.

And I sort of thought about it the other day and I thought, you know, people could email me at info at the missingmatter dot com, just a nice, gentle letter, just like go back to old times.

I know we don't post letters anymore, but you know, maybe it's coming up to Christmas.

Maybe some of those families, if you've heard a podcast episode that's really touched you, maybe maybe right to that person and send it to me and all forward it to them so that they can actually read and just get some nice words and nice support at a very hard time.

Christmas is a hard time for everybody in a missing space.

And you know, this year has been particularly tricky for me.

I've had lots of things going on, my dad being probably the main thing, and I've had to sort of you will know, Jay, like I've been in here and I'm like, I've got to run to the nursing home straight from here, and I've run out to where I had to go, and he was forty minutes from where I was living, and so I have been running around like a chuck with my head cut off.

I still work full time, and you know, I've had Caleb finishing school, I've had Darcy finishing UNI.

I've been a lot, been a lot.

And so we definitely need a break.

We definitely need a break.

Yes, So before we go any further, I wanted to know whether you want to see some stats about Oh sure, yeah, I share with the audience.

I've got my laptop, so let me go that first.

Yeah, going back to that too.

I think I've been being able to reflect on my past experiences with, say doing The Lady Vanishers, which was driven by Channel seven.

So you know, if there was something happening or a podcast episode was coming out, Channel seven could do a news flash at the end of the news and everyone could see that, you know, oh there's a new episode coming out and this is what's in the episode and this and that drives listeners.

That drives people to see and hear.

And it's the same with you know, Dear Rochelle was such a popular podcast and it had the backing from NewsCorp and through the Daily Telegraph, so it's on front page of the paper and people who don't listen to podcasts might go, oh, my gosh, I didn't know about that story, and that does make a big difference when you're trying to get the reach.

And I think I'm pretty proud of the fact that all the people who are listening to us right now, they're the ones responsible for helping with that reach because they're sharing it, they're talking about it, they're listening, they're subscribing, they're downloading the episodes, and that actually just helps building our algorithm to get us to where we are.

And that's really just comes down to the more people that hear it, the more chance we have of finding answers.

Well, the show's been going for seven months and five days, okay, so just to let you know this is this will be about episode nineteen.

I think if you include Mum's episodes thirty.

Yeah, so nineteen of the Missing Matter version two YEP so far six hundred and eighty five, one hundred and ninety downloads, So by the end of the year, I would expect that to be closer to about nine hundred thousand, close to the million, which is phenomenal.

Anyone that's listened to a podcast or ever started a podcast knows that that number is pretty bloody good and then I love looking at the stats on where people are listening.

So of course Australia is the biggest place that everyone listens, but I like to go to the smallest place where people listen.

So you have a listener in Syria, you have a listener in Cuba, you have two listeners in Yemen, two in Palestine.

And then if you go to the top ten countries Australia, the United Kingdom, New Zealand, the US, Ireland, Canada, Netherlands, South Africa, Germany and Spain, it's pretty amazing.

So what you hoped was sharing stories around Australian missing persons has actually gone international.

You actually have a good sized audience in the UK, New Zealand and the US, and so these stories are transcending not just people who have missing love to ones in Australia.

And I know that we've already done a couple of interviews with people in the States and the UK.

Yeah, I've got a bonus episode coming out in January, which isn't about a missing person, but just about the interesting reach that podcasts and the platform have.

Correct And that's someone that heard your story.

It was like I need to talk to.

Her, and she has a very interesting story herself.

Phenomenal story, right, So that'll come out in sort of mid January.

But I know we've spoken about a plan that maybe we'll talk about some international cases in coming seasons, and I.

Would like to do that too.

And I think one of the things you told me a while ago is that in podcasting, because obviously I've never been in the back end of podcasting, I'm usually just Allison always used to refer to me as the talent.

What I found interesting the most was that you said to me that I don't know what the number was, but it was pretty high.

A high percentage of people listening to The Missing Matter are listening through the whole episode.

If you're only listening and tapping in for ten minutes and then tapping out, maybe you're not invested in the story.

But in The Missing Matter, we've got this huge statistic, a fact that people are actually listening to the entire episode, which is really important to hear because we start with a very important topic of who this person is and we finish with why they matter.

So it's really important that people do listen the entirety of the episode.

And those thatats are ninety seven percent of people that listen to the episodes follow them through right to the end of which phenomenal, which means you're making an impact in a way that people are firstly interested in hearing the start and the end of an episode.

So we've got a little bit of time between this episode and when we release a new episode.

Obviously the one with Stephanie will be in mid January.

We also know that January is quite a different time for people.

Kids aren't back at school, there's no commute really going on up until that sort of twenty fifth of January.

We have different vibes, so you need a break, and then we're coming back sort of early feb with our first episode of season three of The Missing Matter.

What are you going to do over the break?

So no, I actually have to do my submission for the parliamentary inquiry actually, so I'm having I'm having the rest of December off.

I'm Chris and I and the kids are doing some nice things together, which I think is really important and brings a lot of value to your families when you are having very busy times.

Chris has always been supportive, as everyone knows, and the kids are great, but there's.

A lot happening in our world too.

Caleb's already had an offer for university to go and do law away from Brisbane, so that means that he will have to board and potentially starting in early January.

So Mum feeling about that.

I don't know who.

His ATA obviously comes out in a couple of weeks, so if I can convince him to stay in Brisbane, I'll try my hardest.

He doesn't want to hear that, but he's got a podcast now.

Yeah, well he's got his heart set on doing that, and it's all about supporting them and doing what's right for them.

And you know, he's got big dreams and he's a highly motivated individual who does his own thing and writes his own book, which I love and I encourage a lot.

And you know our Darcy girl, she's finishing her degree in fashion design and it sort of warms my heart because I know my mum would just be absolutely tiggle pink that one of her children.

She's be proud of all her grandchildren.

But you know, she was such a fashionist to herself and always was wearing something very different to what anyone else would wear.

You'd never see anybody wearing what my mum was wearing because she'd found it at some boutique place, or she'd had it designed herself and made, so I think she'd be totally chuffed.

We're going down to Melbourne actually to go and watch Darcy's graduation, which is where they actually have all of their collections, all their collections on the runway, so she has to come out at the end of the runway and stand.

They're like the fashion designer that she's going to be.

So yeah, so that's pretty cool that she's looking to move to Sydney as well.

So Chris like, very well, maybe empty nesters next year, And I'm not sure how I feel about that either, but we have two dogs, so maybe the dogs will just be allowed upstairs.

I'm not sure.

I'm not sure, but you know, you just you want the best for your family, and you want the best for the kids, and you know, our family has had quite a lot of big hurdles I would say to jump over, and you know, I'm really just happy that they all seemingly healthy and well and doing what they want to do in life and being nice people and happy people.

That's the goal.

But we'll see what happens, see what the world brings.

I guess if I'm happy to keep I really like doing the podcast.

I get a lot of it's a hard word to work out what it is.

No, it's definitely not joyful.

It gives me a purpose I feel, maybe, and feeling like I'm doing something good in this space to help others.

And the other thing to me two is I had a meeting this week.

Now.

This was set up by a listener of the podcast, so she had heard about.

The green seat project.

She lives up in North Queensland and she just contacted me and said, hey, I've spoken to my local mayor's office and they've said I can have a meeting with him in his office.

I think it was the third of December.

And I said, oh, well, I'm happy to jump in if you're happy for me to contact them.

And we've done a flyer and we've captured the article out of The Australian that Dave Murray did, which was awesome, which just shows it's probably clout's the right word, but it's not clout that we're seeking.

It's just some verification that this is actually a good purpose and going into a well renowned newspaper like the Australian and what we're doing in that space.

So we had the meeting.

I jumped in via zoom and there was three gentlemen there and they all just were like, this is such.

A great idea.

We want to support you and everybody who has a missing person.

Very typically councils and local areas will not promote doing memorials for people for individual people, but they said, we can see that this is a bigger picture than what you're trying to achieve here by doing this for all the missing and they do matter, and we would definitely like to jump on board and help you.

So in the new year, they're even potentially talking about doing a couple maybe not just one in that location.

And I guess I'm at the point with the green seat project that i can't do it all by myself.

So if you live in an area and you have contacts or you have someone, I'm going to say, i haven't had a lot of luck with counsel, but I've had a lot of luck with private entities who are run by the government, like the Gold Coast Waterways Authority for example, who did the first green seat down at the spit on the Gold Coast, and I have lots of people sending me photos of them going to the seat, sitting on the seat, having some fish and chips there, which my mum would have loved to have done, looking out to a beautiful location.

And I would just really like to see that progress.

And so I just encourage anybody if you do have it in you and you would like to contact your local mayor or a local area that you think we could.

Put a seat.

The repurposing seems to be the way to go because the seats to put a brand new seat in is so expensive.

I just posted it on my Facebook page the other day because I was absolutely astounded that Brisbane City Council were charging fifteen thousand dollars for a bench seat to go in in or can Flour and I.

Was like, what to you talking about?

That's ridiculous.

So but the problem is they have different stipulations, right, so if it's in an area it needs concrete, it needs to be setting concrete and then it needs a crane to be craning the seat into position and then they do that.

They could put them in concrete a lot I've learnt because they don't want to whip a snip around the edge of the base of the seat, and then some seats need arms at the end of them so disabled people can sit for disability purposes, so people can get up out of the seat.

But you know, just having a chair that we could repaint and put the plaque on and take them with that QR code to the website, that would probably be the cheapest and the quickest and the easiest way for everybody to move forward in this space.

But again, like Karen did, she just reached out to me via my email which is Sally at Sally Laden dot com or info at missingmatter dot com and I was able to then call the mayor's office.

I had a good chat with Nikki up there and.

She was like, we love this idea, we want to support you and get behind it.

It took two months to get to the meeting with the mayor because they're busy, but I was able to then send her a fly that we've done.

I've sent her the article from The Australian and given her my voice as to why this is important, and they're all, you know, jumped on board straight away.

So I would encourage anybody else to do the same.

And I want to do that internationally.

I don't see why it has to just be Australia, Like, why can't we do one in Scotland, Why can't we do them in New Zealand.

There are people missing everywhere in the world.

So the story has become international based on, you know, the fact that my mum was overseas, and then we've got a certain human in the space as well who obviously went differently with different people, and.

We need to just bring awareness to all those spaces.

I'm going to wrap this episode up because I know you've got an appointment and it's almost Christmas, yep, And I'm going to do what you do when you talk to guests on the missing matter.

Why do the missing matter this Christmas?

The missing matter every day, but it's a hard time at Christmas.

And I think bringing their memories to the forefront in the families and making sure that they're not forgotten is valuable to not just the people who knew them, but those that didn't know them, because they are their relation and they are connected to them someway.

And I think talking about them in a positive way is really important, and sharing funny stories and stories that warm your heart does make a difference.

It makes it a little bit easier to manage and a little bit easier to remember them because there's so much sadness it comes around a missing person.

And I know, even with my kids, if I always talked about the sad times, they'd be quite depressed, I think.

But we talk about my mum in the good ways that she was, and we laugh about her.

And you know, all my Mum's friends called her Masa, and she used to get called mad Marian because she'd be running around like I took with her head cut off at school and whatnot.

So you know, Darcy for example, refers to her as Masa and I love that because it brings a warmth to her.

And they're learning about who their grandmother was even though they've never met her.

And I think just remember bring them in a good way is important, not just at Christmas but every day, and just knowing that they're not forgotten.

Thank you for helping me make this podcast every week.

You did say to me at the beginning.

I said, I don't know if I can do it every week, and you said, I'm going to hold you to it.

So here I am managed to manage to roll it out, So we are going to try.

I'm not promising it it's going to happen, but we're going to try and do this little cool video for those that have featured on The Missing Matter in season two, which we will hopefully post before Christmas.

And I'm looking and I have reached out to a few of them as well and just said, look, we might do a catch up episode in the new year as well once we're back, just to see what's happening, because I know there's been a new search with one of them.

There's an upcoming search that's happening with fundraising and things like that ever happened.

We've got more people who assigned petitions, and we've got people who we were looking for and we put it out on social media and we found information about that person.

And I think it's just valuable to let people know that things do come from doing this.

It's not just about sitting here talking for an hour.

It's about remembering someone helping a family, show support, bring a community to that family, but also what comes from that when people.

Share and care.

Very Christmas self, Merry Christmas Day,