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Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of the Projection Booth.

I'm your host Mike White.

On this episode, I'm talking with magde Alan Sorry, all about his new film The Vile.

It's currently playing festivals, including the Fantastic Fest.

If you are down in Austin, definitely check it out.

Otherwise, keep your eyes open for The Vile twenty twenty five coming to a festival or theater hopefully near you.

I would love to hear a little bit more about you and how you decided to get into filmmaking.

When I was in high school, I graduated, I went to Long Beach.

I was supposed to study business being an Arab kid in early two thousands, that's what's expected from you.

But then I just fell into music.

That's how it actually actually started just music production, and then from there it just evolved for me coming back and then going to music college and then coming back there was nothing for me to do other than be a DJ and get paid one thousand dollars for the rest of my life.

But I was lucky at that time.

The Capsole will be where I'm from started investing in entertainment and one of the companies that they opened up was Imagination, and so I started interning there.

That was my I still love the art, of course, I love music, and that was an easy transition for me to get into film.

And then from there just stody worked my way up the ladder.

I was an intern on a Toby Hooper movie that was shot here and I was actually his driver for a month, and then did themed warehouses, equipment houses, and then slowly built my way up.

Did my first short film and Imagination could put me as a junior executive, and then from there I pitched my first film which was called Rat the Cage, a case Sinzan and Arabic, which was in the Fantastic Fest almost ten years ago.

And then from there just I went on to making my second phone Now, which is which took ten years apart, but I was doing TV series in the middle.

Tell me about Radle of the Cage.

Where did you actually shoot that?

We shot that in Jordan.

Was a one location set built.

It was a blacklist script by two brilliant writer writers, Ruckus and name Sky, which was a Southern American film.

But when I read it, it was all it's a pure genre film contained in one location.

I'm like, okay, this is a perfect I was twenty five twenty six at the time.

I'm like, all right, if someone going to roll with the dice on me, it must be a smaller film.

And ID pictures to majation and we got in and then we shot her in Jordan, and yeah, we finished up there.

The production of it was there, and then the post production of it was here in Dubai.

Ral Kid was one of the first few films actually might have been one of the first few drama films that came out from the region.

And not only in the AE, but now since we've seen a lot of productions coming in from dark scale Hollywood productions like June, but also at the same time, you're seeing a lot of independent filmmakers here making arac movies, whether it's in different genres.

There's horror film, another horror film coming out from the AE this year, and then there's another dar scale drama, local drama, regional drama that's coming out.

So it's nice to see there's multiple films coming out.

And back in the days when they roll of the Cage, it was one movie year or two movies a year maybe where are almost five six movies every quarter, So it's nice to see it slowly growing.

But yeah, that's exciting, especially with the Saudi market now opening up because we are from the same age and we consume the same stuff.

That's a monster market to be that we all hope that will sustain us as independent or local filmmakers.

I'll say, do I remember Ry too that you've produced a lot of stuff?

Yeah?

Yeah, what does that like to be a producer rather than just directing?

See, directing by itself is different than that being a director writer, which I've learned in this film because I was the director for h on the Cage.

I found the script, but as such I didn't I wasn't involved in writing the script.

But it's also very different when you're a producer on a film.

I think I think it's great because to be frank it's great to see other people doing mistakes.

That's part of it.

And yeah, then you being in the back kind of trying to save it or even guiding them and making their vision come to life without enforcing any And that's one thing that I did as a producer is making sure that I never interfere as a director.

That director had is waved far away from the set.

But it's nice work with other directors and see how their process is, whether with the things I agree with or don't agree with.

I've learned both ways.

So it's always great to be a producer on set.

But I do enjoy directing way more than producing, and say, to be very frankly, and I actually do enjoy directing.

Of course, I love developing scripts.

But this is what I found with the Vow that was a bit tough is when because I wrote it and directed it, it was a bit it was just so person It's a story that comes from my community and it came from me growing up and things.

I had this story, I had it in my head.

I just didn't know how to tackle it or the subject matter for fifteen twelve years, So it was tougher for me to direct this one, just because it felt like closer to home.

I might not be co writing it.

I might give it to very tad to write it, to write it.

And I'll just direct it.

So it sounds like this one took a long time to just state.

Was there a moment where finally like slipped and you go, ah, this is the key to this movie?

Yes, yeah, Yeah.

It was just a slow process because I knew I wanted to talk about the subject matter, but also knew I wanted to talk about it in a fun way where prison would watch it, would actually enjoy it and not fall into the drama too much, but yet respect that the subject matter, which is about polygamy and about multi marriages.

For me, it was an instance where there was a friend that and we were locked in somewhere and he was he wanted to come out, and he was so excited for the weekend.

And then I found out that she's Mega's second wife.

And this stage age is very different than my father's generation or my grandfather's generation, where he is really pushing the women's empowerment, where we have women in high position in government and in private sectors, and so it's not as I'd say, as as common as it used to be.

But young guy just was going to do it.

And it was in fact that we're a group of guys and we're a bit surprised, but I think we're more surprised into the fact that he was doing good and not then the first wife doesn't know about it, she has no true I think that that brought me up to a question.

I'm like, how would how a father of two daughters.

I'm like, how would I how would my daughters feel?

And how would I feel?

How would my wife feel?

And I started questioning that and that that really pushed me in, propelled me.

And even though I had it, I've seen in my community ten fifteen years, I think that instance and you know, I'm like, Okay, this is where what my what my angle is for this movie and what I would just buy.

But now looking at it, I'm like, it just makes total sense.

That's how we want to do it.

It's really take us, let the character, let the money or here, take us on a journey of what she would feel like going through this process step by step and how it comes from the beginning into that.

And that kind of spurred me into that conversation spurred me into doing massive research and getting people.

Even though I've grown around it, I just wanted to get I want to get the deep cuts essay of the subject matter.

And then and through the research, it just kind of started getting clear and clearer of what this movie should be.

Did you run and past any women and say does this ring true?

Of course, there's there's lines that were taken from my family household and taken from other fabrics.

And also my actress at Badur is a large part of i'd say, rewriting it as we're shooting it, and because she was very close to the subject matter, so I really leaned onto her and a lot of times and heard her voice.

Whether I like it or not, I just wanted for me was chasing honesty and chasing the truthfulness.

And then of course there is the horror.

That's the fun part of it.

But I still wanted to be true to the voice of the women of the region that go through this And yeah, that was technician.

Tell me a little bit about your co writer.

So Johnny is another writer, brilliant writer who I met from the Blacklist.

There was a script I read I might have a blackness reader and I love it.

My first cript came from the Blacklist website and I met Johnny, and I met a lot of tanted writers from around the world on the Blacklist.

So Johnny was one of the really talented writers I've met, and we've developed a few projects before this one.

And then me and him had the conversation.

It wasn't easy.

I think he was, which rightfully, he come from Canada and he's maybe the subject matter is not the one that should welve into with you, and maybe you need a local writer.

But my issue was is I love the way he really thought of structuring the scripts and how he writes.

I think we had a great relationship.

I'm like, all that the cultural stuff and the stuff that comes will come from me, and I don't shoo to worry anything about that, but I need your help with how we structure the horror and how we bring it in and how we bring it out.

And so, yeah, he was a great companion and it was a great partner to have on the project.

Can you tell me how the cast came together?

Essentially, we had a set date to shoot the movie, but then the last second we could which is couldn't I couldn't find the right money or the right hero, and I really wanted someone that really understands this, whether really when whether she went through it, or she had family members and someone really close to home, close to her home that went through it.

And the cinemasine isn't big, you wouldn't understand.

But what we have here in the OE is a big theater movement and community.

So it was just by accident me going to the charge Um Theater Festival and the first show that came on, which I really loved, was her being the hero of it.

I still remember this, and I was watching it and I ended up crying, and then I was just like I was tearing up.

I'm like, the story was very beautiful, the stage director was incredible, the acting work, everyone did an incredible job.

But she just she has had this energy in her and that I just kind of I'm like, all right, because we've already casted everyone else but her, so I had to recast everyone and put her in the center point.

And of course, after our first meeting, me sitting other than her being very extremely talented, mes sitting with her and her telling me what she went through from her family members and what she knows about this subject matter.

I knew she was the right person, and so therefore we recasted everyone so we could have her lead the project.

Why the recasting, it didn't fit the way she was, her age group, who she was as a woman, her energy for me, that just didn't It isn't well with the other castle we had already because we had someone to play the money in the beginning that didn't work out.

She pulled out, so therefore I was stuck with everyone else but the lead.

But then when a fond lead, that's everything.

It's like a puzzle that everything followed in a striz's place, so we had to Unfortunately, they were very talented and extreme tatle but they just didn't fit the family that I saw in my head with the door or the actress that plays some money.

Did you still make your shoot date?

We ended up pushing it for two months three months to just prep just to get her because they actually had the theater and then so we just put for two three months.

So almost did you actually shoot this?

We shot this in twenty twenty three.

Around the end of August, we started shooting again and then we went till September and then yeah, and then editing since no editing.

Process of editing, which was one of my most was maha moment in this movie where for right of the caid, I knew exact how I'm shooting the film.

I know exactly how'm I'm cutting this movie right.

I know when I'm pretty much six seven months, I was done with editing and we were in the online.

I think with this one it was a bit different that I tried doing that and I realized smack me back in the face.

I was like, all right, this movie's not speaking to me.

And I realized that going with that attitude would be the worst thing to do with this kind of movie.

And that's what I've learned.

And I spoke to a very close director friend of mine from Jordan, Najiabunoma and who did the incredible movie called Vieb and he advised me, He's like, listen, you are trying fight of taking it from a two hour movie, let's say to an hour and forty five minutes, and then there's something in the middle is not working right, and you're trying to cut and is once you just go to take you to sacrifice it go to eight five minutes ninety minutes and then find out what you want to add to the movie that I'm what you want to cut from them?

And I think that's that was my biggest moment where I really realized, okay, what this film is and then that film Then when I started doing that, the film starts speaking to me.

The charcter starts speaking to me.

Amani has a character and the story itself.

The film starts saying to me, what, hey, what this film needs and what this what scene is needed?

What's not needed?

Instead of me enforcing myself and my style and my rhythm into the.

Movie, I wouldn't they actual shoot itself.

Did you have any difficulties?

That was great, It was incredible.

I had a great James who was my first ad.

I had, of course one of my incredible partner, my shpotographer Benjamin who shot The Watcher, and then he came which is another spooky imagation movie that he came on desk and we were a tight ship on time and we shot on sixteen.

So that was one of the exciting that I never I've shown in sixteen when I was when I went.

I dabbled in the beginning, but to shoot the film, I was in incredible process.

I just made it more to lose.

I had way more to if I did mess ups, but but it went smoothly.

I couldn't be luckier.

Yeah, I could really see the film in the movie, which was so nice.

It's almost like a special effect these days.

When I did my first we just worked so hard with a fog machine and go into the color grain and put on the grain and so on this one, we just shot it and it went to the and then it went to and to post.

We cut it and literally the color grad was and that's it.

We didn't need to do all the run around that we did we do on digital.

I was lucky.

I don't think that's film.

I'll be able to put it off again.

It's just because there's no condac film.

So we had to shoot everything here.

We had to ship all the film here and then shoot everything, store it and then ship it back to the UK and then process it and then know whether five days later whether our film is intact or not, or if we were not.

So a lot of the film was filmed on stage, so it came to a point where we're going to strike the stage and I'm not going to have that stated that that's the set design anymore.

But yet the last batch of film hasn't come back and have it's five more that we need to wait five more days.

So there was that nervousness to it.

But thank god everything that came again, I was okay.

Quite a leap of face.

Every single day.

It sounds, especially when you don't have a lab next to you.

Your DP did a wonderful job.

It looks so good.

Yeah he did.

Yeah, was incredible.

It was incredible, so professional and so on the point.

It was, as I said, like a type run ship.

And we just banned out the shots and and we had a lot of room for improvisation, which we did a lot in this movie because as I said, having bador a mon who plays the main character, even the Nore who plays plays her daughter, we just wanted I wanted to keep that space for the actors to be actors, and I did.

I didn't want to enforce like a certain thing because I think the main thing other than the hard scares and the herd sequences having the movie, which was of course like shot this in and we storyboarded those parts.

But for me, I think the heart of this movie is the drama.

That's that family dynamic that we have, so I had we had to just keep that space for them, and we improvised a lot.

We provised more than I anticipated.

But that was the beauty of it, because there's certain times to go in.

There's a beautiful scene in the movie where Amani or main character or hero is watching after her husband comes to her and says, hey, I have someone else, and they forces this thing on her, that sort of this the situation on her and she's just watching and reminiscing of her she's watching them on the TV of their weddings.

But the good and for our culture that day, and I always hear from my mom, right, she always has that picture of it's just such a big because back in the days, and it happens today not as often happens a lot, I'll saying fift fifty where it's a lot of his age, marriages and no family members knowing each other, and it's long a sense where hey don't see each other.

No, not always, sometimes it happens, but the ar scenario is where they were speaking each other on the phone and when they go out on a date, it's a whole two families together and it becomes it's awkward situation.

But for my mom and I always hear it.

For her, that wedding day there was a big thing, and there's a VHS staatee, there is a picture, and so on and so forth.

So there was a moment in the movie where she's watching and reminiscing them back and looking back at what they were once upon a time, and she just felt a different way than why we anticipated in the movie, and for me as a director, I wanted to keep that space for her, and it turned out to be one of my favorite scenes in the movie.

It's just her watching watching the TV and the emotions they see there as honest as it could be.

I was surprised that was floored, and I just didn't know how to speak to her at that moment.

I just let her go on, you know what, you know how this feels, So take this will.

I'm glad you're able to allow that improvisation, even though you're shooting on film, which seems like that would kind of limit the amount that you could do.

I think I was lucky having Steven and having Roy, having Ben and Derek, and the the magation of the Spooky team where they really I remember having the call also whenever was the first weekend, and I remember having this called from Ben Ross and his listen, you just go get the movie.

You will get to get the movie.

Of course, well the women are straight, don't go crazy.

But he really pushed me to the facts that are not if you're not getting the access to get to a point where you want them to get to, or they're not feeling that they got to the point they want to, let's use the extra film.

We could buy more, two, three, four or five other roles to get that emotion's cross.

So ten years later, you're back at the Fantastic Fast.

How does that feel for you?

Incredible?

Love it.

I love the festival.

That was a much changing experience for me for the first time.

Before that first time I went to I was because I was in the I was again turning the film commission, so you know what, the delegation will go can Sunday.

But the magic that I saw in Fantastic Fast is unequivalent to anything else.

That there is this sense of community and sense of love for the drawing itself that I really felt in the first film when I did Raw the Cage and since then I was.

I've always been looking forward to my next one to come to Fantastic again.

So really did it?

Do you know where it's going after this?

We're going to sitch Us after this and then we're going to have premier London Film Festival.

Five.

Is there a good place for people to keep up with the film.

We have the Imagination Instagram page.

They updated a lot about the movie.

I think that's the main source from what I know.

Maybe ourself, but I think then Imagination pages is the main source.

Mister Allen.

Sorry, thank you so much for your time.

This is great you thank you, appreciate it.

Five us

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