I didn't feel like as I was doing it, I was being sneaky and deceitful.

So I of just did it and didn't really think a whole lot of it, And it wasn't until weeks later I've stuffed up here.

I'm John Ralph and I'm Glenn MacFarlane.

Welcome to Sacked, a podcast that explores what really happens when the ax falls in the AFL world.

Will take you behind the scenes with some of the biggest names in football and find out how they found out their time was up and who.

Pulled the trigger.

Thirty eight goals, a Grand Final appearance and the rising star in Jaden Stephenson's debou year would have had Pies fans salivating at the prospect of a generational talent, but just two years later, punctuated by a gambling scandal, he was out at the Pies and after four middling years at the Ruse, he turned his back on the AFL all together at twenty five.

So how did it all go wrong?

Jaden Stevenson, Welcome to the podcast.

Mate.

One hundred and twenty two games, seven seasons, a rising star, two clubs.

When you put your head on the pillar at night.

Do you think of the soaring highs of the MCG or the fact that your career finished a little bit quicker than you probably had originally planned.

Yeah, I think it's a good, good mix of both.

Yeah, obviously, yea.

It came in.

It was very fortunate to play early and at Collingwood been the biggest, biggest club in the AFL, and it was sort of a will win that whole first year.

And then obviously was able to see probably more the lows of AFL after that, obviously getting traded going to a different club where we weren't winning, there wasn't success, and I was able to see both sides of it, which you know, like you said, it might have been a little bit shorter than we hoped, but I got to see all of it.

I think, what's life like away from AFL football?

Like everyone says, you know, why wouldn't you want to be an ANFL star?

But how much you're enjoying just the little things, the decisions you can make, the freedom that you have, the lack of pressure, I'd imagine, and you know, from that day to day existence.

Hit the nail on the head just that you know, when you're in the AFL system.

You're a role model for younger people.

You're in the public eye, you're to sort of support the club, so you're always looking at what am I doing?

Is that the right thing?

Am I giving the right image of how I want to be portrayed, how the club wants to be portrayed.

And the fact now that you can just sort of I can do and not have to think and yeah, really just live life freely.

It's certainly enjoyable.

That feels like that's almost metally training, you know, all that stuff, those micro decisions every single single moment, rather than living your life.

Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily say training.

It was an incredible experience and I love being a part of it.

But when you do step outside of it, like I was talking to Glen before, you come straight in from high school, you finish finish high school straight into an AFL, and it's just in your face now being able to sit back and have a look, it's certainly less stressful, a lot less pressure.

Yeah.

That word free, is that what you feel like you are now?

Free?

Yeah?

Certainly, I think it's one word, one way you can put it.

Yeah, Yeah, just take us back to the start when you were the gun young kid pretty much.

I think you played in four premierships as a junior.

You were starting a couple of bags of ten as well.

Tell us about junior days for you.

Yeah, junior days was were awesome.

Everything just seemed to happen.

Happened well.

Started off at Upway to Como.

I went to Finsray Galley, like you touched on.

Was able to win some flags, only one three of them.

Actually, I've given you one the fourth one, I still give you twenty eight.

Start with the fourth one.

No, there's no sob.

Sorry.

I was playing Eastern Rangers.

I've played the whole year there and didn't qualify for my local team, but they won by seventy points.

You can claim that.

But I think just going up in that environment we had we had such an amazing team.

Yeah, you know, not the most talented, that's for sure, but every single person had each other's back, and you know, there's little clicks within teams everywhere, but we all got along so well and it was a big part of our success.

We wanted to play for each other.

And we didn't didn't care about who was the one kicking the goals, who was the one having thirty forty touches.

As long as we're winning, we were happy.

It's got of innocent times almost, Yeah, exactly, there's nothing better Like you go to school, you work hard during the week.

So your Tuesday Thursday nights training that was probably the best two nights of the week.

And then you're obviously looking forward to Sunday, which was game time.

We want did you get on the AFL draft radar?

And Kevin Sheen at one stage thought like, this play's going to go at number one and obviously you're pretty.

Close to that.

When did it turn into Okay, this is a business for me and I can set myself up with an AFL career.

Like I touched on.

So I just went with the flow to start with.

Played in the under twelve state team, which you know, as a twelve year old grade six, I think you're a big dog.

I had a lot of confidence.

So something like that was an amazing experience.

And there's been, you know, a lot of players in that side that have gone on to have good careers.

But under sixteens played the Eastern Rangers Under sixteen underage tournament thing and was very fortunate to get a game in the Under eighteens as a sixteen year old and ended up playing the four finals there as well.

In a Grand final on Eddie had which was first real exposure to playing on an AFL based ground.

We saw James Stevens move from playing as a half forward into the midfield.

It was something that took a little bit of time, but the progression finally got there in the second half of the season where he was outstanding.

He's quick, he takes marks above your seat, he kicks goals, kicked five goals and had twenty eight possessions from a wing of Vic Mattrojur in the carnival.

So he's an outstanding prospect.

He's the X factor of this year's draft.

We've been seeing it for three years and he's absolutely quality.

He's Stevenson again looking for number five.

He's beending that one back.

Probably after that I thought I might be a chance.

You didn't win that game, but you dominated pretty much that final series.

That's probably when you thought I'm right in the mix year.

Yeah, certainly.

Yeah, we've played against Oakley and I think we're down by I think the scores might have been even at three quarter a time.

We end up losing by two goals, but getting opportunity to play on the week before, played on Jacob Wiedering, who was the clear number one draft pick at the time.

That was a pretty cool experience, and Charlie Kurno the week before that, So played against these big names as a sixteen year old and the next year, what I'm there still playing Eastern Rangers and there here kicking bags of goals or stopping both and kicking bags a goal.

So it's a pretty cool experience.

So leading to the half, Samuel Landsberger, late great our colleague, reported on your heart issue, which was something you had known about but was a huge drama at the time.

There take us through the lead into that draft and all of a sudden you know that it's a genetic condition and you think that it's okay, but you've seen clubs all of a sudden having doubt about you.

Well, actually they did correlate.

So at the same time they were finding out, I was finding out It's not something I always knew about.

It was picked up through draft testing.

So yeah, it was a bit of a whirl win for everyone.

And yeah, yeah, especially mum.

So like I said, it was genetics, so mum has it.

She's obviously passed it down to my sister and I.

So there's a little bit of a tough time sort of navigating through all that, starting on new medication.

What effects are these medications is going to have on aerobic capacity all that sort of stuff.

So it was a long lead up that month before so come I think it was November twenty fourth in Sydney.

Once my name was read out, it was nicest to you know.

But there were worries from your perspective.

The World Club's not that keen.

Were you on a cruise or something at one stage with your mum and you're like, am I going to get drafted now?

So we couldn't do schoolies because school he started the week of the draft, I think, so I wasn't able to do that with my friends.

But a couple of mates and I and our partners we went on a cruise for nine ten days before the draft and it arrived in Sydney the morning.

Off the draft.

It was perfect timing.

We're nice little get away before.

I don't know, I think obviously I've spoken to mum about it and she was very worried that I wouldn't.

Get drafted because of it.

However, I always had that confidence that I've put in enough, I've shown enough in the last two years that someone will surely take a risk on me at pick sixty or seventy or even in the rookie.

Draft high you were thinking it could push out that high.

Yeah, well that was like, worst case, I've done enough to put myself in a position where I should be drafted, and even if the heart does scale off, surely they can take a risk with a rookie pick or whatever it may be.

So I was never really too worried about not getting drafted.

I just sort of was happy to go anywhere and the improve my worth from there.

So's when did you first get the obviously do the draft screening.

What was the phone call who told you, look, you've got this issue and it might jeopardize an aspect of your career.

We spoke to.

It's actually very good question.

I don't know.

I can't remember a long time ago, the nitty gritty stuff, but got sent off to a cardiologist, did lots of tests, and they always they thought it was a lot worse than it was, just because they were general cardiologists, and then got in touch with the sports psychologist.

Sought sports cardiologist and she was able to, you know, set the story straight and show that the risk wasn't as bad as we may have thought.

Can you tell us what exactly what it is?

It's called long QT syndrome, So it's basically in the electrics of the heart.

And the easiest way to explain it is, you know, on a graph, out goes up, down, up, and then scribbles out for a little bit.

Supposed to go up and come straight back down my and goes up and takes too long to come down in the QT interval.

So there's the long QT for you.

And so eventually Colinwood got clearance and then obviously clearance from their board going into that draft.

Had they suggested to you, had they given you any reassurances at that stage, Like you didn't know you're going to go to Collingwood.

I didn't have any reasure is from them.

I'd spoken to them the most, so I caught up with them three or four times, and it was something that there was a club that I didn't really think I was going to go to.

I was just sort of in that like pick six are in a funny little spot.

I thought maybe I'd go higher, or maybe I'd go well lower.

Yeah, So I hadn't really paid a whole lot of attention to where I thought I was going to go.

But my whole Mum side of the family have been mad Collingwood the whole life.

My nan.

Actually, she's snuck it snuck in the Bucks's wedding.

So she's got a photo with Bucks on his wedding days.

A pretty cool story.

Yeah, she had to get in.

I don't know.

I don't know the full details, but she's got the photo.

Yeah, I used to have the photo in her lund room.

So and does she like Wedding Crashes is her favorite movie?

He thinks it might have come she would have pass away unfortunately, but yeah.

I'll have to get that photo on that night there, so they pick you.

I think we did an interview straight afterwards in the relief in your face which is palpable.

Yeah, like I said, it had been along probably month two months before, of doubts, questions, adjusting to life, you know, taking this medication and not really having done high intensity training at AFL level I suppose with the medication, So it was all a bit of a up in the air, a little bit of a question mark.

So to finally get my name read out and thought, okay, now I've just got to go out there and show what I can do.

It was a great relief.

How did the medication affect you and how did it affect you, if at all through your career?

Yeah, it hasn't, hasn't at all.

Early days it was three times a day, and that was pretty tough to keep up with morning, lunch, dinner, and I certainly did miss a few, just no on purpose.

It's hard to keep track of.

But was able to get in touch with an American, an American type of the same medication that is only once a day, So that's made life a whole lot easier.

I don't think it's had any real effect on my day to day life, which is a great result.

Someone once said Ralphie that walking into Colin was like walking into Hollywood in a lot of ways.

Was that the way it was?

You were a hot seat me and are hot seat fan?

You grow it up.

You're walking and you meet Eddie straight away, and Bucks is there and these amazing players that are there.

What was it like joining Commingwood?

Yeah, certainly, I think Eddie was one of the first people I met on the way in and like you said, hot seat fans touched back to my name.

We used to sit there I was four or five years old.

Always been a bit of a sponge for education and learning stuff like the general knowledge I've got in my head that's just useless is.

Well and truly there.

But we used to Eddie McGuire questions, Nan, can you give me ediemcguy?

So to meet him first up was amazing.

And then you know, you walk in the doors, you meet Bucks, I mean Nick Maxwell was there, who was obviously captain.

Then you look up to players, players you've been looking up to, Scott Penderby, still side Bottom, these kinds of guys, and there they're shaking their hand, getting to know your name.

It's amazing.

Well, how do you describe that to people?

Like it's just it's a life changing moment and you're like almost can't believe it.

Yeah, it's where where your idols become your friends.

Not necessarily day one, but you can tell it's the start of a relationship, and you know, just being able to see what these people are like because from the outside and I don't know if it's like it as an adult, I haven't experienced it, but as a kid you look up to him you think, oh, it's amazing up here on.

A pedestal, and then you get there and it's just just.

Like the normal bloke from hanging out to a local footy club or something like that.

Yeah, so you may get in round one in the number thirty five jumper, what's that summer like?

Because as it turns out, it's a pretty special year.

You know, obviously impressed in those pre season contests and you know, all of a sudden you're slot straight in round one.

It looks comfortable already at the level Jadan Stevenson, high and long.

Yeah, it's funny when you come he as an eighteen year old.

You've got all this confidence and no real cares not the word, but you've got no pressure on you at all, really, no Scar tishue, no Scar tish ee Exactly.

You come in and they don't really try and change you straight away.

They just they just go right show us what you've got.

So I was able to just do that.

And I think as AFL goes on, the more it becomes about structure and this, and I think maybe young kids can can lose their confidence and their spark a little bit depending on how the team going, So that's one thing to navigate.

But yeah, like I said, came in just played on confidence, and as the weeks went through Round one, round two, round three, like didn't matter whether we won or lost.

I knew they were never looking at me and going Jesus the fourth game it's his fault that we lost.

So it's a pretty easy easy way.

To live because after your SAE, I think you said somewhere after three games you thought you might have got dropped.

You weren't sure.

Then you come out, you go to Adelaide, you kick five goals.

It's a life changing moment really in a sense from you, isn't it.

Yeah?

Yeah, I think that round three was against Carlton.

I think I had six touches and didn't do much else.

And you know, I'd come in as a four that's always kicked goals throughout my junior life, and I hadn't kicked one of the first three games.

I thought, geez, maybe it is a little bit harder than I first thought.

But from yeah, from conversations had with people after that, I think most of the coaches and that wanted to give me a rest or drop me that week.

But Bucks, from what I've heard, was the one that said that will give him one more game.

I reckon he can do it.

And yeah, lucky for that because Adelaide was probably the breakout game that I needed.

Stevenson gets another kick and he steps a great goal.

The kids kick five breakout performance from Jade and Stevenson in.

His fourth game.

Did your life change after that?

Like you, it became so big.

You know you, you know your rising star nominee that week, you kick five goals, you help and win an amazing game.

Yeah, certainly it was.

I think Adelaide played in the Granny the year before and we'd finished thirteenth, so that's why they had picked six.

Finished thirteth the year before, hadn't played finals for three or four years, so to get that win over there against a hot favorite of the league that year certainly just built built the confidence in the whole team and sort of set our year up, both personally and as a team.

So from there on out, we as a team knew that we can compete and we are as good as anyone on our day And for me personally, I sort of that was that moment where I thought, I do belong here and I can make a living of this.

What's a lot playing Anzac Day in front of ninety one thousand in your fifth game?

Yeah, unbelievable.

I've always been a massive supporter of Anzac Day, have gotten up since I was since I remember.

I've always gone to the Dawn Service and really loved.

The patriotic side of it, and always obviously been interested in the game itself.

But to go out there and play it was like nothing else.

People have spoken about the Grand Final saying how good was it playing in Grand Final?

I said, yeah, that was great, But playing on Anzac.

Day that as much because of the occasion.

Not only the occasion, but that probably just the atmosphere too.

Like you think at a Grand Final you've got you know, maybe thirty thousand of each supporters and then forty thousand corporates that are buying.

And say that I was at the Grand Final, Yeah, an Zac Day, it's pretty much yes, colling with So I've.

Got a vivid memory of that first game.

I've ran down the ring and took a couple of bounces, and I remember just every step I took.

My whole years were just ringing and bouncing, just from the noise and the anticipation, the excitement of the crowd, the numbers.

Kick you kick.

I think you kicked two in Ice the game against Brisbane, the team that you barracked for, and then you kick four on Queen's Birthday.

You're really on a roll.

How much support did you get internally?

Bucks was the caring sharing coach that year.

He was a little bit harder early on in his coaching career, but it was a very different Collingwood, wasn't it.

Yeah, you probably don't know the difference, but in the sense that that's the.

Way he was.

Yeah, certainly.

I, like I said, didn't have anything to do with Bucks of that before that year, but I just thought he was an amazing leader, a good motivator of men.

And I've touched on it too.

I think justin longmyore there, who's now coach, a frero, incredibly smart footy brain.

So I think those two whacks off each other really well.

Put together a game plan, Bucks was able to get up motivate people to buy into that game plan and the results ended up showing on the field, which was great.

Long you were remember interviewing him through that time, and I thought he's not high on charisma.

And now at Fremantle, you know he's a bit deadpan.

So the players look at that and say, well, you know I need more or do they go no, I just respect this footy brain because there's a lot of talk about, you know, how he holds himself a freeman and it still feels like those freo players really love him.

Yeah.

I think you know, everyone's different, everyone needs to be.

They learn differently or they get motivated differently.

And like you said, Jos not yet, not the most charismatic.

He's a lovely man like he got a great foot IQ.

So I think, preman, I've got all the tools to be a really good side.

They've got the game plan.

Maybe do they need a motivator.

I'm not too sure, but it's certainly something that I would look at.

If you've got someone that can really rev the boys up.

Along with j Loo smarts, I think they can be a really successful side for many years.

Adam Trelaw said, at the time, you were a barbecue, chicken, pizza man.

That was your go at the time.

You've moved out of home by this stage, tell us about what it was like and how difficult it was a bit of uber eats.

You were getting a little bit of uber eats at the time, And yeah, I got a little bit of going on there.

A little bit of trial by fire moving out.

I got chucked into a sharehouse with Jack Madge and his partner.

So Jack was a rookie Category B rookie the same year I got there, and I was with Cale Kirby, who had.

Been drafted the year.

Well, yeah, so that was that was very interesting.

Yeah, I've got stories for curbs.

He didn't really have talent too, didn't he have exceptional talents?

So yeah, he did have a great talent, but yeah, he just did not really leave his room.

And oh there's some stories.

I'll tell you what we try to think that's a good one to talk about.

One he did was he'd come into a room and he go, Steve, I've got no money on my card.

Can you get me you berreats and I'll give you some cash.

I was like, yep, no worries.

Gave him my phone.

Yere sweet, thanks for that.

Mate, comes in, gives you baut my phone, gives me back twenty dollars as appreciated.

Look at my phone he's ordered forty three.

Dollars giving me the twenty That was just that was just curbs sort of thing.

Yeah, we'd sit there, see there at the nighttime and watch the footy and you go, someone do their a cl Oh Jesus, I wish you'd do your a cl Steve.

I'm like, so he could get a game there you go, so that I'd be playing like he didn't meet it within ten stuff.

Like that dry sense of human Yeah.

It was actually pretty easy to spend twenty eight grand on Uber Eats when you're probably doing it two out of the three meals a day.

Yeah, Like I said, we was a trial by fire.

I had a pretty fortunate upbringing where my washing got done, my bed got made, and food cooked obviously, so to come he as an eighteen year old, I did try and cook, but a lot more, a lot easier.

Just getting ordered with a signature dish that you would get in the Uber Eats and was the figure about right, like, yeah, twenty eight thousand is that?

Yeah?

It was very accurate.

So yeah, it was Greek food was my go to a lot of the time.

Obviously, the nights before games and big trainings.

I'd order in some pasta.

Yeah, certainly I look back at that time and go, you're an idiot.

But you know, like I said, it was trial by five.

It was all part of me learning and growing up.

So what's that year like where you're kicking goals, hoscanellit's kicking goals, just Thomas.

I think you all had forty odd goals for the season.

Yeah, you're thinking about your own form, but you're thinking, yeah, this is pretty special all of a sudden.

Yeah, it was a good thing.

I think any of us, like we were Hoscanelliot, Josh Thomas, myself, we all got along really well and it was never never a competition between any of us.

And I know I hear a lot of people, especially well while I was playing for you too, but especially out now, they put some shade on Mason Cox say no, he's not that good, and I'm the first one to say, like Coxy, he's a superstar, Like you don't understand how important he was to us at that time, and I mean he's still doing it now.

But we just knew as smaller forwards that that ball got kicked to Coxy.

He wasn't getting outmarked, the ball wasn't really going out the back.

It was coming front and center, so it made it really easy for us.

And you know he may not take as many marks as he should or he could at that height, but as a team man and playing with him, there's no one else you want more on your team.

You did it the hard way.

So qualifying final against West Coast in Perth, you lead but to points at three quarter time.

You get rolled memories of that and thinking maybe this won't be this year.

I actually don't really have many memories of that game.

But we played West Coast once or twice throughout the year also and hadn't beaten them at all, So I think we lost to them three or four times that year.

I think I don't think they would have beaten Richmond in the prelim, but we couldn't beat them either.

It was just the way the matchups went.

I thought sometimes, yeah, I thought we.

Beat Richmond, Richmond beat West Coast, West Coast beat us, and that's how it ended up.

Being got on a role.

Then you've beat obviously GW Wes and then there's you talked about Mason Cox.

Then there's the Mason Cox game.

Wasn't it the Richmond c.

Cox again, I cannot believe it.

You've got to go to Kimpley Graham with the MC.

Chief for an American to dominate like this?

Can he guide it through Yu si Ken three.

Or the very best tell us about the mindset going into that.

Everyone had figured that Ralphie's a Richmond man.

Everyone had figured that Richmond, we're just going to win that game.

It was the Premiership that they had already locked away.

Yep.

What was the lead up to that game?

Like the motivation from the coaches to get you into that position to win a game.

Yeah, Like I said, we're going back a long way.

But there was no doubt but then any of us that we're going to win that game that we'd lose.

So yeah, we just went into it.

We knew how best foot he stacked up, We knew we matched up pretty well against them, and we just went out there and Mason Cox just put on a Yeah that was that was unlevel nine or ten contested marks.

He took a big expec over Trent Cootchin.

Actually, and I was standing nearby his feet and he takes the mark, looks at him on the ground and goes, this is my field, boy, Like in his American accent, and I was like, Jesus, that's crazy, but.

I I love him for that.

Yeah, I'm not sure you could be saying that, but that day he could have said whatever he wanted because he was amazing.

And the crowd was like USA.

That was when the start of the real chant, wasn't it.

Yeah it was.

It was just ringing probably throughout the third quarter, taking probably six or seventh, and it just just started.

And from there on in the next you know, when I played another probably thirty games, it was every time you did something, the USA chan around the crowd.

It was amazing.

What a wild ride you guys had.

You know, started the final series.

You become the first Column of player since Nathan Buckley to win a Rising Star.

You know, you kick thirty eight.

You didn't miss a game, thirty eight goals.

You didn't miss a game that year.

It must be feeling like you're floating on air leading into a Grand Final.

Yeah, yeah, a bit of a whirl win.

The year just sort of just kept going.

The weeks rolled on and didn't really have a time to sit back and breathe and have a look at it.

From afar, but in reflection, Yeah, it was just amazing.

And going into that Grand Final, obviously your phone starts going off messages from people you forgot, you even youw they come from tickets, give me tickets.

Yeah, they come from high and far.

But we got our eight tickets.

Was able to give them to, you know, eight people that have had an influence of me throughout my career and have just been really good friends for the Grand Final parade.

That's probably what that is one of the highlights of my career.

That was unbelievable.

I was in the back with Chris Maine and you know, just driving down the streets of Richmond and East Melbourne whatever it is.

Sitting there by the end of it, like my face was sore from smiling.

My hand had been up waving all day and was busting for the toilet for about fifteen minutes.

But that was, Yeah, one of the greatest experiences I've had.

The Grand Final itself.

You're hot, Colin was hot early.

You get out to a start, they're not going to roll.

Yeah, yeah, those early your experience of those early moments.

Yeah, it was a bit of a whirl win.

I mean, Bark's kicking the first goal.

He was such an inspirational man.

He was pivotal in my career, always very good at you know, motivating me and complimenting me.

And yeah, I couldn't thank Varks enough for that.

But obviously what had gone.

On with and he addressed the group as well.

He'd addressed the group.

Yeah, and it had been something that you know, we'd been helping him through.

So for him to come out and kick the first goal on Grand Final day probably couldn't have set the tone any better for us.

And then I obviously kicked two after that.

Take us through those goals, you've got to take it through.

Yeah, I think the first one was the leftot snap kicked my Stephen just came in and.

Like I said, everything was just on instinct an eight year old, nine year old kid.

Everything just was there and happened.

And I look at it now, I'm d they're actually a pretty good kick and but in the moment you don't really think of it.

Very fortunate that went in and.

Stevenson so quick, come do, come do, Come on.

You're not going to catch him.

He's a second, he's not two years of the bench.

The second one was able just to get a little nudge and Tommy Cole and use my speed and ran on and like I said, that same feeling I had in Anzac day where the crowd was just pumping, was the same thing running in there.

And I kicked that second one and started thinking like, where's my norm Smith Metal going a little spoted by my bed maybe, but ended up not to be.

I didn't really do a whole lot after that, unfortunately.

But yeah, I mean goes down.

It's one of the greater Grand Finals in a long time.

Amazing, you know, I can look at it from afar.

What just just wasn't our day.

We did a lot of things.

Right, But before dom she'd kicked that goal.

They kicked three or four points in a row.

That there was a wave, wasn't it.

There was a wave coming while your whole last.

Quarter they were dominating your contest wise, possession, territory game that the damn war.

Was only exactly was just holding and we weren't able to do anything to nullify that.

There was a moment in the third quarter with Alex will the runner, he was slightly in your way and you know, Elliott, you kicks the goal.

Tell us about your recollections of that moment.

Yeah, obviously at the time.

Paul Woody he got it after and he's such a great man and for him to be copying it as hard as he did at the time, I thought, maybe could I dodged him, But in reality it was just a bad kick by Tape.

We'll put all the blame on pay for the kick, but that's a good point.

Yeah, it's one of those things that just happens, and you know, they really do a really good job.

As a runner, it can be a hard job.

I actually umpired the all abilities down at fanry Gal the other day, and I mean it can give some the umpire some stick, but it's actually quite hard being out there.

And this was a little bit slower pace than what the AFL is.

So now they do a really good job.

All the volunteers, I know they're not volunteers in AFL, but yeah, the people that help out.

Is it a part of you that I've missed a flag, I've unrequired or it's like that's part of my journey.

It's part of my journey.

I'm pretty one of those people where I feel like everything happens for a reason.

And obviously I would have loved, loved to have won a flag.

Would have loved to have another opportunity to play in a Grand final and to win another premiership, and probably finishing my career without one sort of lowers it and it's not not what I set out to do.

But you know, there's either way, there's going to be twenty two disappointed players whoever wins.

And that happens every year.

You talk about your connection to that team, how was your feeling five years later as we fast forward down and some of those guys end up doing you know, playing in a Grand final and winning a remarkable grand final in itself.

Yeah, certainly I could be more proud of them, especially people like Josh dkos So.

He was one of my best mates there.

We lived together for a time and he wasn't a part of the Grand final in twenty eighteen, so for him to you know, watch him grow get more consistently in the seniors and now I'll be up there for all Australian talk and playing in a Grand final, winning a Grand final.

It's people like that.

I'm just wrapped for Brandon Maynard another one.

But yeah, just as a collective, it's awesome that they're able to chase that to taste that ultimate success.

Footy kicks you in the ass.

Quick kicks a lot of people in the ass.

So twelve games, twenty one goals for twenty nineteen, and then the gambling situation happens.

People say, what happened?

How do you explain it?

Yeah, just a young kid that made a super mistake and I made my consequences.

I suppose, like you touched on satur that year, probably better than my first year.

A lot of people talk on that first year was great, but I was kicking like, yeah, one and a half to two goals a game there and sort of just started catching fire.

I think the game before it kicked four against Port Adelaide and then three against Melbourne, and then the band came out, So it was just sort of getting on a roll.

And I say unfortunately, but it wasn't really like I said.

It was just me being stupid and something I've learned from.

But it was a tough time for me personally, but within the four walls, I felt like I had their complete support and me being able to look at it from afar like, come week one of finals, I'm a second year player that's just missed ten games for making a mistake and Bucks had the confidence to select me in that first final side.

That means more to me than probably.

The the disappointment of the whole thing.

That means more to me to know that he had belief in me.

It continued the next year in the Hub too.

We had a conversation before the first final where I probably wasn't playing my best football, but he had faith in me and he always did so I love playing for Bucks and.

Yeah, I've I've watched enough American sport, Ago what the fuck are you doing?

But when you're pretty young kid like at that stage there, you're not really aware of the rules of what you can and can't do.

Yeah, probably you don't really think about the consequences either.

I mean, sit on the couch with one of your good mates that you've grown up with and he's doing He's putting on this bet, Yeah, I'll do one as well, and just sort of slips your mind.

I didn't feel like as I was doing it, I was being sneaky and deceitful, sort of just did it and didn't really think a whole lot of it.

And it wasn't until weeks later I've gone, oh, I've stuffed up here.

Yeah, when do you get that feeling?

Like you the bets were small.

There were thirty six dollars I think, was that right?

Yeah, there was three of them throughout the year, through the year, and they had no impact on the way you approached the game or anything like that.

No, exactly it was.

There was not one thing that was for another someone from another team sort of thing.

It was all I don't know, like I said, just had this confidence.

I was just like, oh, we able to do this.

I was like me kick goals.

So I did have to all this sort of stuff.

Yeah, which in hindsight like just what a waste of money?

Not only Yeah, the best I've put it is I've put thirty six dollars on and lost seventy and thirty six dollars because I lost twenty thousand dollars fine and ten out of ten matches at five thousand dollars ago.

So yeah, it ended up being quite expensive to be lost.

But like I said's another one of those things that it was part of my journey and life goes on.

So how did it emerge?

So you're in the rooms with Jeremy, how you sort of mighte a comment about a multi or something on the margin.

Yeah.

I just laughed it off.

And then the next morning I was out for breakfast with Callum Brown and he called me.

He's like, were you being Were you telling the truth of that?

And I was like, yeah, mate, like one of these people that I'll be just rather be honest and face the consequence and you know, lie to a leader of the club.

So just said yeah, I am, and he goes all right, well, you're probably going to need to tell Walshi about this because it's against the policies and can affect the game with the integrity side of it.

So I said, yep, no worries.

Went to Jeff Walsh the next morning and toldy Moore what had gone on, and he said, yep, no worries, mate, will obviously you've made a mistake.

Not no worries, but we'll speak to the integrity unit.

I get this all sort of goes I thinking you'll probably get a five thousand of the fine and you might have to miss a game or two.

Wow.

And then the first thing comes back and it was a two year suspension and I'm like, oh, he's gone from two weeks to two years.

It's going to get very cos Yeah, so it was a.

Bit of a worrying time there, but yeah, you know I had the support of the club.

I think any McGuire really helped, and we're able to get it to the ten Games, which I suppose unfortunate as well, because it could have gone, like I said, could have gone a whole.

Lot worse, pretty bigger Jeremy, like, you know, I think there'd be blokes out there he'd say, he's flying, We're going to win a premiership, like you know, we're well do under him, even though that must have been a really challenging thing thing for him to consider.

Okay, no, we have to crack down on this.

Yeah, people make choices throughout their life.

That was a choice that I made.

It was a choice that he made.

You know, if we both don't make those choices, if one does, one doesn't, there's different results and all different sort of things.

But life goes on.

That's them, And who's to know that that doesn't come out later anyway?

Is that something the worse consequences that might have even been worse consequences.

At least you were up front and you said I've done the wrong thing here in that sense.

How pissed off as the club were they They were pretty good.

You said they were pretty good.

Yeah, they probably probably behind closed doors they might have had a few more pissed off moments, But to me personally, they were great.

I didn't feel like I knew I'd done something wrong, but I didn't feel like I was being persecuted or whatever.

And they were all losses.

The bets were all losses anyway.

I didn't win, probably lucky that.

I think if they had a one, it would have been a lot worse, really, probably.

Because how strongly did the AFL prosecute you, or you know, the Integrity Department prosecute you.

Did you add how many meetings would you have had with them?

I suppose they're going through all sorts of gambling records and stuff like that as well.

I only had only had one or two meetings with them, but it was quite thorough.

And then I think they had meetings with other players in the team about it.

Really Yeah, and they sort of came to their deliberation pretty quickly.

Yeah, Like I said, I look at it ten weeks.

Is it steep?

Is it not enough?

Is it too much?

I don't really know.

And you know, that's about the just like I said, the journey so.

And the just one, not the labor.

There's like a sixty five minute talk against security the barrel.

He's gone doing.

That's gone, baby barrel.

People would say, were you trying to get your MULDI up?

Was there ever a time where you were trying to Colin was trying to win, but where you were trying to influence your bets with your performances.

No, certainly, I'd forget about them all while I was out there, and we'll forget what I've done.

I'd get back in.

I'd get back in and that night or whatever it may be, that's when i'd look and go a lost sort of thing.

But yeah, that talk, and it's it's funny people people do talk about that talk because it did come into contention with it.

I think I spoke to integrity about this.

But one of the legs was me to kick goals.

The other leg was like us to be wonder thirty nine or whatever it may have been.

So I couldn't have done both with that same thing.

Talk put us over that.

So that's what I said.

I wasn't thinking about it at all.

I just was in the moment felt the ball.

It was a good ball to torp and went for it.

And it's still like your partner is you know, did it scare you off it?

Or yeah, it did scare me off it.

It was you know, something that you know, I watched my grandpa do and my dad did it just not not like not bad, but dad was once a month in a punners club with his mates and sort of something you go up with and something that's heavily involved at a footy club.

But it's something I've tried to stay away from.

We had a survey recently with player managers in our paper where basically they said it's one of the great things they're worried about with the current crop.

Do you yeah, worry about that with the current crop and you see it probably suburban level as well.

I certainly agree.

I think it's just the footy culture in general.

The footy culture in Australia is you know, drinking, gambling, partying, all that sort of stuff.

So it certainly is a worry and certainly something I think the AFL probably need to educate better on.

So Gil Laughlin gives your break though I think the AFL team had played you'd served at ten weeks, that was twenty two weeks with twelves ended.

Then you're allowed to play I think VFL that weekend and then as you said, there bucks just totally back to the hill to play a final.

Yeah that was actually it was actually my idea to play the VFL that week.

So I obviously had the ten week and I'm always trying to think outside there.

Yeah.

So I went up to Jeff Walsh the week before and I said, hey, well she like the fixtures come out.

The AFL side plays on the Friday night.

Because it was a floating fixture.

We didn't know when we're playing.

They're playing on the Friday night.

VFL's on Saturday.

My ten game band technically ends on Friday night.

Can I playing the VFL on Saturday at Yeah?

I thought that's yeah, because I was obviously itching to get back out there and play, And so I went to Welsh You said, this is my plan.

What are your record goes?

It actually makes it makes a bit of sense.

Future, that makes some sense.

I'll speak to the AFL and get a result.

And two days later they said, yep, no worries, it's all kicked off.

So I was able to get that game in and then get picked and.

You played a couple of finals and Jenniburs roles, you're in the prelim, you kick a couple of goals.

But it wasn't to be.

It wasn't to be the retribution for two twenty eighteen's loss.

Yeah.

Yeah, Like I said, we played along the first game at the g knocked them off, and then played GBS in the pre lim and they were just the better side on the day.

I think they won by three or four points.

So to close you have two years in a row where your seasons are defined by one kick is pretty crazy, but I think that was the opposite.

They got out to like a thirty forty point lead, and they did a.

Wet day and Brady Greeny is getting all the hitouts and same month the.

Game, Yeah, yeah, we're coming, coming, coming, And I felt like you were going to get over the line all the way through that last quarter, but just didn't quite get there in the end.

Yeah, exactly.

And it felt like the year before with West Coast, where they were coming coming.

They did get over the line.

We unfortunately didn't.

And you know, I really think if we hadn't made it to that twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, it would have been against Richmond.

I think we had that number.

Did you really you felt like you matched up really well at Richmond, really.

Well against Richmond.

Yeah, and we always struggled against West Coast.

Geelong was another one where we kind of struggled a little bit.

So you sort of know that as a as a team and as a playing group, who you match up well against and who you don't.

How fire are you?

You know you're going into twenty twenty.

You're not to know that the world's going to fall apart in twenty twenty, but you get like that.

You had glandula fever to start, so you had a really tough start in that preseason to get yourself right.

And then the world changes, doesn't it.

Yeah covid Yeah I did.

I'd done my work during the off season, came back because the first of four year players always come back two weeks earlier, so did the first week.

And I was really struggling.

I'm starting to drop behind, cannot keep up with anyone.

I thought, this is this isn't normal.

Like I've always sort of with the running and the aerobic sort of stuff, been more towards the front than anywhere else, and for me to be, you know, half a lap behind everyone was pretty crazy.

So had a good rest on that weekend, came back into the second week of training, and by the friday I was like a lap and a half mind everywhere.

And couldn't keep up.

It was just had nothing in me when had the tests glendula fever.

So I spent six to eight weeks away from the club, just literally at home doing nothing.

Went back to my family home with my my dad where they again cooked clean.

That's for Randy, But yeah.

I missed the first game or two that year, obviously having to catch up to speed, missing the whole preseason, and then we get shipped off to the hub and they might be up there for you know, thirty thirty five days, and one hundred and five days later I was coming home.

So it was pretty pretty crazy experience.

That tough was the hub for everyone, but for you as well.

Yeah, I think it affected people differently, people that lived and breathed football and didn't have a whole lot going on outside of football.

I think they ate it up.

Andy're probably the ones that performed well in that in that environment.

But for a lot of others me included, you know, that interaction with friends, that get away, you know, seeing your family certainly things that I missed and contributed to not really enjoying my time up in the hub.

So West Coast had a worse time in the hub.

You eventually play me in Perth the elimination final.

You burn them by a point, they're ravaged, and then I think you're sick and you're injured and you've got absolutely nothing short breaking.

You get smashed by Gelong in a semi final, lost by sixty eight points.

I think you had a single goal at three quarter time and Bucks is like we were even.

We were never a chance to win that game.

Yeah, probably going into I didn't really think we were a chance against West Coast either.

I think we'd finished eighth and they were.

Fished the dirty pis.

I think they were.

Yeah, Mason Cox stepped up and took three test marks and three goals in the first quarter again, so he seemed to step up when we needed it.

But yeah, it was sort of not that we wanted it to be over, and a lot of people weren't going to be sad once it was over.

And when we get back see family and friends.

And that's that might be a confronting thing for people to fore you to acknowledge, but it's reality.

Yeah, it's certainly how I felt.

The whole or of the group was.

You're not aware that that's going to be your last game?

Far from it.

When did you realize we've got a problem here?

Probably the day before the trade period, really that light.

Six weeks later I had makes It interview, and you know, it was just talking about going and getting fitter, getting stronger, all the typical stuff you hear going into an off season.

And it wasn't to My manager called me a day or two before the trade period and said, hey, mate, looking at trading you.

Yeah, was it Robbie Doradio gives you a call and what are you thinking of that?

Yeah?

It was pretty rattling, you know.

Like I said, I was well aware that probably didn't have the year that I wanted to have, But like I said, get over that, COVID, get back, I have a full preseason.

Because obviously had the glandula and wiped out my whole preseason, I thought it'll be good, good to go all guns firing the next year.

So to get that was a bit of a kick in the guts, but I suppose again it's part of the journey.

I'm going to say it a lot, he said.

Bucks said I hadn't opened up to the group enough, which I didn't really agree with.

He said.

I actually rang Bucks and asked what was happening.

He said, for me to pursue a trade as heavily as I can.

A couple of days before the trade period, my manager mentioned I might be traded.

It was a bit of a.

Shock at the time.

What do you make of this?

It's quite an incredible situation.

We might have tra Law to come, we might have Tom Phillips, but king you Jaden Stevenson's trade to North Melbourne has come as a shock to most Collingwood fans.

Two weeks ago it looked like he was going to be playing at the Pies for.

At least How much of it in retrospect was your performances, your salary like their issues?

Yeah, as you think about being traded as well, like I can't have just been your performances given as you say, you've been a rising start two years before.

Yeah, obviously I don't have any idea of what the actual conversations were within the club.

But it's all just conjecture.

But the way I say it and what's been portrayed in the media, obviously performance wasn't there Sally, I was getting paid a really good salary from there on out, and obviously what I produced the year before on the field and my salary the next year they weren't aligned at all.

So I've got no hard feelings.

So I think as a business in the AFL is a business.

Each club is a business.

I know they're not for.

Profit, but that's not really true, correct, So as a smart business decision for them.

I would have got rid of me.

So you would have traded yourself.

I would have traded myself.

Yeah, if I'm running the business that is Collingwood, they made the right decision and I can sit here and deal with it.

I know it's not personal.

It's just a business and that's how it works.

And so what was it was a classic all the way through.

The couple of club was saying we're not trading players.

You know, clearly there was going to be a clean out given the salary cap issues.

Brady Grundy was on a massive deal.

What those couple of weeks, like Adam Trelaw is potentially going to be traded as it turned out, you know, Phillips to Buston VOLANGI what were those couple of weeks like leading into the well, as you said, only the day before the trade period and a really turbulent trade period.

Yeah, it only felt like a two week process for me, and I didn't really mnd like as much as I did.

Like I said, I was able to at the time understand the business side of it and go, Okay, this is where my journey ends here, but where are we going from here?

And was able to chat with a few clubs obviously, spoke to North Melbourne and came to an agreement there and it was all pretty seamless in that aspect.

How did you talk to?

Who else did you talk to?

I didn't actually speak with any else I'd had.

My manager had spoken about, you know, Gold Coast might be interested, but I thought that's where I've been up in the harbor and I hate it, so no way I'm going there a chance there?

Yeah, at that time, I thought, just in the headspace I was in, Queensley is not the place for me and that sort of thing.

And then he spoke about Richmonds and Kilda, but you know, taking huge pay cuts.

Yeah, so it was only really one one club that really and if that, if that hadn't have been there, I could have stayed at Collingwood like I had a three year contrast.

Is that ever a thought in your mind that it was?

It was actually a thought for I'm going to.

Prove these Bathards wrong and get back to my best again.

Yeah.

For the first probably nine ten days, that was my thought.

Yeah, and then you had a discussion with but Nathan Buckley.

Is that right that the club hadn't really contacted you?

Yeah, I spoke to the class rang Bucks.

Just said so one night, one late, one night, you give him a call?

So what I take us through that conversation?

Yeah, I can't obviously don't quote me, but it was along the lines of, yeah, do you value me?

Do you want me there?

What will be the go come next year if I stay?

And pretty much just said it's going to be hard.

So yeah, that's that's the crux of the whole conversation.

Obviously there was more to it, but basically said it's going to be hard and you may spend a lot of time in the twos or whatever, it may be so obviously in my own head thought, no, I won't.

Like if I'm there and I'm playing, well, you'll pick me in the ones.

But yeah, at the end of the day, you want to go somewhere where you're valued and wanted, and that was North Melbourne at that moment in time, So yeah, made the choice pretty easy in the end.

What was the pitch from the rue?

How did you meet?

Who did you you know?

How did you get your head around thinking Okay, I know they're you know, down to the bottom of the ladder, but it'll still be okay.

Yeah, Mark Finnigan was the main one I spoke to as a recruiting manager.

I think Brady Rulings may have had a bit to do with it as well.

They actually didn't have a coach at the time, so there was no coach to speak too, which is an interesting, interesting position to be and obviously getting a trade going to a no coach, but yeah, that was sort of great from the outset.

They gave me a our point selling themselves to me and it really seemed like they're on the up and unfortunately it wasn't in the end.

But yeah, you have to get a couple of new housemates, colind didn't want a couple of your housemates living with you?

Was that a bit of a slap as well.

Yeah, that was a bit of a slap.

Didn't really appreciate that side of it.

They were obviously good mates of mine.

Who remember exactly They a couple of players.

Anton toehillsco and Jay Rentel was there as well.

Yeah, and Train ended up staying for a while.

Anyway, treyger along with really well and had a really good relationship.

But I'm not being able to live with someone it's from another club was a bit of a bizarre, a bit bizarre in my eyes.

Yeah, what was their explanation, what was their issue?

I have no idea, that's not You'd have to go speak to one of them.

Quite tell us about that first year at North.

You finally get a coach, you finally get a coach to start David Nables your coach, What was it like that first year at North and the differences between Collingwood and North Melbourne From the moment you walked in.

Yeah, I walked in, it was actually very similar.

People have spoken about, you know, Colin, We've got these great facilities in North Melbourne's got these.

Small they're not bad out there, great facilities, have.

Got everything you need.

It's a really intimate club.

There's amazing people involved, some of the volunteers, the people that you know do all the nitty gritty stuff behind the scenes.

They're just amazing people at North Melbourne and very similar in all aspects from Collingwood to North Melbourne.

The major difference was just the on.

Field performance and we weren't able to get up to scratch there.

Tell us about playing free and easy on instinct and then as your form drops away, how do you try and rediscover it, you have to try and work harder.

What's the challenges for an AFL player.

Yeah, it was really tough that probably that first year at North sort of coming in.

I think I think I had like twenty in a goal a game in that first season and we're still getting sort of ripped into it and I'm like, this is probably one of the better years I've had, but because we're not winning and I've come across as a recruit, a lot of that pressure on me and I spoke about before where they're not going to blame the fourth year play, the fourth game player, whereas they are starting to now blame you and think you're a big reason of why we are losing when I was probably having, you know, one of my better year, one of my better years.

So who's having a great Year's played every game this year?

It's twenty one goal seven this year.

Jaydon Stevenson three straight last weekend.

That's an hour.

And that sort of just gets stepped under rug because of us winning two or three games, whatever it may be.

So that was quite disappointing, but from there on out it sort of just just got worse.

Yeah, I'm assume that that's from David Oval.

Again.

He's talked about, you know, the things he did right and wrong in this seat, But like, what's it.

What's the criticism?

You know, you're not pressuring enough.

You're not you know, because as you say, your numbers are pretty good.

Yeah, not pressuring enough.

Or I have always been a more skinny outside playoff And it's like I missed one ground ball, one contesta ball.

So then for the next three weeks I'm training, you have to do extra ground balls and extra hardball gets.

It's like, hold on the second.

There was three that I did get.

The one I've missed is the one that just comes to light.

And I felt like that the whole time of North was a lot.

It was you know, one thing got amplified a lot, and it wasn't just me, it was a lot of people throughout the group.

And how training is that it is training.

It's just going from week to week having something else, or you know, you finally have put in your three weeks of work doing ground balls and then it might miss a kick and do a turnover.

It's like, oh, you need to get your kicking up with scratch, so then you're doing kicking extra kicking for two weeks and it was just constant of and the results if we're winning, like, they don't let those things, those things don't come to light and the stresses aren't there.

So that was the thing that probably annoyed me at most, just having seen what it was like being at a really successful club and a club that's not and the stark differences in.

Terms of building a confidence, like internally.

Confidence and the things that you know, the expectations that are there and for instance, like at Collingwood when we're winning, like steel side Bottom used to train in track your pants for the main session.

It was freezing and so I'd do the same and it was all fine, we're winning, we're going well, nothing said about it North Melbourne.

You're in your shorts, single it and a beanie.

What are you doing with your beanie on?

That's not a footballer.

It's like really old school stuff, really old.

School, and it's like, only this is only because we are losing on a weekend.

I did really struggle.

So they're listening to the outside noise in the sense internally really in that in.

My perspective, yeah, it just seemed like each week there was a new thing, and you know, if we had to just maybe focused on us as a group doing our thing every every week, maybe it would have been a different result.

What did Dave Noble do right as a coach and what were his room for improvements?

He used the vernacular.

Yes, it's actually a long time ago to think.

I suppose my main thing that he did well was that he was pretty clear in his messaging and you knew what he wanted from you.

I think sometimes it can get lost in translation, but he was very good at, you know, teaching and under standing and making you understand, whether that be visually or speaking to whatever it may be.

You were very clear at what he wanted you to do, and I think probably the downfall for personally in my opinion, is just changing changing little ways we played each game depending on who we're playing.

So I know what Collenwood it was like, we played our style of football and if that's if that's a switch, or if that's a long down the line, if that's a handball run game.

We played our style no matter what we're playing.

And obviously we're aware of some things and of what the other team was going to do, but we didn't really change our core way we played.

He believed in you in your game style.

We believe in that game so and my my gripe.

I suppose in those two years at North where we'd be playing too long, we'd like to run and handble, for instance, and we'd change and we'd play completely trying to deny them that style or that So we then didn't get any continuity in or an identity of how we play as a club.

For sure.

That that second year, I think John Ralph broke the story about the David Nobles spray against Brisbane.

You played in that game, you haven't recollections of that or.

Yeah, I remember being in it.

I don't think it was as bad as you as you would have made it out to be.

But yeah, it was just a good old old fashion fashion bake.

Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

Yeah, and I think he had every right to do so.

I mean we weren't performing and actually in local footy two weeks ago we've got a good halftime which would have gone close to it.

But you try a water bottle or something like.

It wasn't like it was.

It was theatrical, but it was It's just a spray.

Yeah, just a spray.

Had plenty of time.

Darren Buick as an ad and he gave really good ones Bick.

Yeah, and you would have seen it the NRL.

Yeah, it certainly wasn't to that level.

I think Jason or Francis like was on the Virgin tiers or something, so you know, there was some layers to it.

Possibly at the end of that first year at North there's the bike incident.

Can you take us about that?

Where you practice here?

Another another silly mistake if I made has had a few drinks and decided I was a good BAMEX rider.

And were you a good BX rider.

I'd ridden some BMX and ridden skate parks and that growing up.

I hadn't done it for probably six or seven years.

And on the evidence you were not a good.

That's I think that's the conclusion I've come to as well.

What happened.

Just had a few drinks and decide I could ride my bike down my stairs at my house outside and went to the top to roll off them, and realized at that moment this is a stupid idea, and then chucked the brakes on, actually chucked the front brakes on when over the top and pretty much just went down from the top of five stairs down and just landed straight.

On my hip.

Great trouble straight away.

Yeah, I hopped up and I got on something's not right and yeah I went to the hospital and no good.

How do you go about letting the club know when there's something like that happens.

That's the hardest bit, I would imagine.

Yeah, certainly, I think I spoke to Brady Rulings first and said this is what's what's going on.

Obviously was it wasn't too happy, but was also worried about my health and that that came first, which was good.

So it was a good week or two before I actually had a good sit down chat with with North Melbourne and they were able to you know, discipline me as as required.

What's David Noble or what's the leadership group say to you?

Were like the gory details of these things.

What was what was their spray at that stage two.

You like, yeah, I can't I can't remember really having a chat to them.

It was more Ceo ben A Mafio had a long hard chat with him, which you know wasn't wasn't great sitting or I sort of did a lot of listening and a lot of agreeing.

But yeah, within.

Terms that I think I copped it hard enough from them, And because we were in the off season, it's not like they're going to get everyone together to do it on the spot.

So and by the time we got back to pre season, I was back up and running and it was almost like nothing had happened.

So the main deep chats we with Bennie and Mafio.

Obviously Nobes was in there, Brady rawlings that sort of thing.

When did footy get to that stage where you're like, I'm not having as much fun or not having any fun?

Yeah, probably probably the end of that second year at North had won you know, four games and played forty five games or something whatever it may have been forty games and we have won four or five games, and like I touched on, it was just constant, we're not doing this right.

When I looking that right, crisis meetings, what's going on?

And it just didn't really change.

So that's just that's exhausting.

Its training and like I said, at the start, you play with that natural flare and that love, that confidence, and that was completely gone.

It was every week I was thinking about six things of when the ball goes up in the here, I've got to be strong in the contest.

Please don't fumble the ground ball.

And you're just overthinking.

Going to say you're overthinking, then yeah, And.

It's more there's a lot that's actually a law that the more you think about it, the more likely it is to happen.

So and like I said, do a lot of And if you're riding a bike at a tree, the more you think, don't think the tree, don't hit the tree.

More like you are was your brain quickly go right dodge around like this, You'll do it a lot more.

So, Yeah, I kept thinking about mistakes and the mistakes kept coming, and yeah, couldn't put together complete, really good games consistently.

What was it like playing with Jason Horn Francis in that one year at North?

There was so much external noise?

What was it like internal?

Yeah, I mean external probably got most of the story spot on.

I'm not sure he was really keen on being there.

I think he was missing home a lot.

The one thing I suppose with Horn is that you could he had to undeniable talent.

Like we watched him in some match sims before the season started and he was clearly best on ground and some of the things he could do.

The confidence he had to just break out was amazing, and he put him in put Adelaide.

I know they're not going great this year, but he's.

In a team with, you know, players that have had success and a team that has been good, and you can see how much of an impact he can have.

So yeah, he's a phenomenal talent.

It just wasn't to beat North.

That he left at the end of the eighty.

Tell us about the ice bath story, what actually happened.

I had left that stage, I had my ice bath.

But yeah, apparently just wasn't too keen on getting on and yeah, I think I said it was hard.

Obviously my foot he had took a decline in the hub because I wasn't happy.

I was missing home.

So maybe I can relate to Jason how he was feeling.

And you know, you're away from home.

Your an eight year old kid.

He's gone pick number one, supposed to be the superstar.

You're now playing a team that's won two games for the year, just had another big loss, and you've been us top and ice BA.

I'm not giving him any chop out, but that's possibly why why he did what he did.

We smashed a lot of players for different things, and if someone says something about us, we get so sensitive about it.

Like people started talking to you about your contest, West lines back to you.

He doesn't physically physically compete.

What happens when people say things like that about you.

Yeah, it is frustrating, And I think you'd love to just go he go Ross, here's my highlights, or he's twenty minutes of footage, Go go actually have a look rather than you know, watch one game, see one contest where yeah, might might have done it well, but you know, Patrick creeps with someone who's known who's been hard.

He goes he might miss the exact same one that doesn't get brought up.

It's just like, because my aura is that, and I don't you know, Patrick Coops might do ten to miss one.

I might do five and miss one.

It then just comes onto me, and that really annoyed me.

It's like, go back and watch the footage, or go look at how hard I'm running up and down that flank.

How hard I'm getting to run back help the defense.

You know, the balls coming in this side, I'm there helping to spoil as a higher forward, and then I'm working back.

And being in the forward line for when it comes in there.

So I don't know.

I think it's a lot of these old school guys can sort of lose the fact that you need multiple different types of players to create a good side and whether it be work great as of strength or being tough at it or would I would never say I'm week and soft.

Obviously wasn't super hard and really great at that, But I don't think it was a massive deficiency either.

Wasn't why they drafted you to be Patrick Cripps.

And it takes courage to run and all those things, and they're just different levels of courage.

Yeah, exactly.

I think when the team's going poor, When teams going poor, it really comes down to the hard and toughness and that just wasn't me necessarily as a footballer and were struggling.

I mean, look at someone like Zane Durzma this year at North I mean he's a phenomenal talent as well and very similar mold to me, and he's struggling getting in and out of the side.

And I think if you drop him into Geelong or you drop him into Collingwood, He's played every game this year, kicked multiple goals.

Yeah.

How does your family handle all that as well, like the criticism you'd come up or whatever.

Obviously from a really close family.

How difficult is that for them?

Yeah, I think a lot of them struggle, My mate struggle.

They just they say to me continuously they want to bite it back, especially online.

When I bite it back, well said it.

So let's not say, oh those bastard eno.

Yeah, we've been part of it at times.

Yeah, And a lot of the time, like journals are just saying their opinion and other like you said, ross Lyin, they have their opinion.

That's fine, like you're disgruntled by it, but no way I'm going to go back.

But I've got no interest in going back.

And I don't know who's a person either really like as journal say we may have a chat or two, do we really know each other as people?

Probably not?

So like what they're saying, You've got to realize it's not an indictment against your character.

It's indictment on how you're going on a football field, how you performing.

So it's no different to a boss or a coworker saying you know, you're.

Not doing this well enough at your job.

So yeah, I'm pretty good at understanding that and realizing that they're not talking about you as a person.

How did you get on with Alister Clarkson when Alistair Clarkson joins North Melbourne.

Yeah, he got along really well.

He obviously has had great success in the past and has a really good foot of mind.

Also to be able to learn some things off him has certainly helped.

I think, you know, having had three four good coaches in your time, you're able to take parts from each each of them that you like and other parts that you don't and create my then like coaching plan which someone are going to like some aren't.

Going to lie.

But yeah, I just love the I love the tactical side of football, and been able to listen to Clarko for two years has certainly helped my understanding of that was.

It, And obviously we understand why clark I stepped away, But it was weird with Brett Ratton stepping in.

Clarko took his gardening leave, given the fallout from the Hawthorne stuff.

It was.

It was a weird time, but obviously Brett Ratton had huge support from the place.

Yeah, it certainly was challenging and we just touched on it.

But that's now they're going after Clarko's character, so that's out there for the me to see in the public eye, going after his character.

So I can't imagine how hard that would have been as a good person.

He's a good person, he means well.

All the stuff that went on, I didn't see any of that in my time that was there.

I thought he treated everyone the same, treat everyone with respect.

So for them for the public and people to come at his character, I can understand why it took such a toll on him.

But like you said, rats stepped in and he's an incredible man.

He's one of my favorite people I've met in football.

Just just an awesome, down to earth guy, and he did as good a job as he could.

Was was he such a great but we see it, But tell the people out there why he's such.

A great bloke.

He's just so personable and he's come come from humble beginnings, you know, he said, he said, Mane, I look, it was a stat the pod I think had the most disposals in two thousand.

I was like, wow, did you guys?

Rats was a big, big ball.

Obviously was before my time, and I'd heard of what he's done, what he'd done, But he was one of those people with you know, with your boss or your coach.

It can be hard to sit down with him like over at dinner and really chat the whole time sort of, whereas Rats you could see down with for two hours and feel like you're sitting there with a mate.

Just yeah, just unber level man.

Another one like that's Gary Hawking, So he had a bit too with him at Collingwood and still keeping contact with bord Her all the time.

That's good.

Yeah, still, yeah, that's great that you keep it going into twenty twenty four.

Did you think this could be my last year?

You weren't enjoying it in a lot of ways.

Was it right?

You played on a bit for your family, Your family loved your playing and your mates after you're playing.

What was your mindset going into last year?

Yeah?

I finished twenty three and thought I've really had enough.

Yeah, like I don't and I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel here.

You know, my contracts running out, I'm not going to be in a successful side here, and I might as well look start looking after, you know, my own my own happiness, my life going forward.

Get a head start.

Obviously, all my mates are there, they are tradees, but they're qualified and then now starting their own businesses.

And you know, I'm pretty much going back to square ero, like I'm going back to nothing once this is all done.

So do I get a head start in life after footy?

And it took a lot of conversations, a lot of deliberating on my behalf, but came to the conclusion I'll play one more year.

Sort of made it pretty clear that this will probably be my last year.

So you'll if I invite you to a game, you probably should come.

Don't miss out.

Did you play for the money at that stage?

I think your contract was was it five hundred and fifty or what was you contract?

Yeah, something like that, which would be totally understandable.

Yeah, it certainly certainly came in.

Came into the point of why I staying.

Like I said, going back, I'm now doing it now on apprentice wages and lots a whole lot different.

So the time we have to earn that good money is a short period of our life.

And you know a lot of people once they start earning those good dollars, it continues to grow from there because the business.

Is going or whatever.

They can only move up, whereas we go up here and then we back down to the bottom.

So yeah, it certainly certainly helped to keep me motivated, rocking up every day.

But I can't think of a I can't think we how challenging that would be to go it's probably my last year North Melbourne ship.

I'm playing okay football, great, it's a it's a tough mental challenge that you got through it that year.

Yeah, Like I said, you don't really think about the money or anything while you're there, Like you're just out of training and it is what it is.

Probably was it more of a driving force pre pre the season starting.

Once the season starts, keeps going through you commit.

But yeah it was.

Yeah, it was a pretty tough, pretty tough year.

And I played the least games I played, played twelve AFL games, maybe spent a lot of time with two is.

Actually actually really enjoyed my time in the twos.

Had Tom Lynch there, who played for.

Adelaide, usually regarded, yeah he's.

A great man.

You will make a good scenior coach one day, but really helped me to enjoy my football.

And I played down in the twos, play well for two weeks, go back up and not play too well.

You back down.

And it was sort of a sort of thing, you missed that ground, ball.

Missed that ground.

Yeah, it's sort of I'd stopped.

As bad as it sounds, I checked out a little bit in that last bit and thought, I'm just gonna keep trying to have fun on my main thing every week going was just trying to joy yourself today, try and enjoy yourself.

And it was harder to do than I than I've tried that I thought sometimes, But yeah, I think my last AFL game was against Richmond, had.

A win win.

You had one of my six or seven.

Yeah, since venas that was That was an awesome experience.

And then yeah, I played VFL for me to finish the year, and you know, I think they sort of understood that I checked out as well.

Like I think played half back flank last VFL game of the year.

I had twenty five and kicked two sort of thing.

Had played pretty well, bro open the game up and there was no looking for selection the next week.

Going to say do you look back and think what might have been if you had stayed at Collingwood, Craig McCrae comes in that you could still be potentially playing there now.

Yeah, certainly certainly goes to my head and something I've thought about, you know, and I'm one of these people that has a lot of confidence, Yeah, you know, within my with my own self, and I think had I been at the club in twenty twenty three, like I probably would have been playing in that and I would have fought tooth and I would have my spot there.

So it's disappointing looking back on it that in that light, but the decision I made at the end of last year was certainly the right decision for the Cathartic in a way, in a lot of ways that you feel free.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, and I'm very comfortable that I made the right decision.

Did I make the right decision throughout my whole career in terms of the bike, the gambling, the trade and all that, Probably not, But like I said, that was my journey, and now that it has come to an end, I'm very comfortable with how it ended and why it ended.

What did you do with the retirement?

Assume you just get a portion of your salary for this year or give it all back or yeah.

It just got a little bit of a portion of it.

So then spent the next four months doing not much, just sort of settling in your life, playing a lot of golf, that sort of thing, and then signed with my local football club.

You go back and play juniors, go back and play seniors of frensry Gal, where I'd played my junior.

As my dad played thirty odd years.

There.

Signed, there was training and getting to meet new people.

I mean, it's a whole different game.

Tell us about it, tell us about what life's rate.

Now, Yeah, it's great.

I mean you take for granted at AFL training, you know, leading and getting hit right here, like you go back and play local footy.

And nice sharons that have got a bit of you know, nice waters.

There's a lot of big, like wet watermelon looking balls and you're kicking them and you know you might hit someone with a great kick, but they just drop it.

And I mean at the first the first probably three or four games on there going oh no, like come on, what are we doing?

But you get to know that's just.

The game is a lot more contested.

Very rarely is someone streaming out the front of a contest hitting you on the Tit sort of thing is yeah, yeah, it's a different it's more contested, scrappy sort of game.

But I'm playing it with my good mates and that's all it really matters.

Beauty.

Do you ever think about another VFL side or going to take the cash in the country somewhere like this is where you knew you wanted Tom to be.

Yeah.

Obviously had a few chats with a soon as my retirement come out, had clubs calling through what do you reckon?

What do you reckon?

I pretty much had made my mind up.

I am from fernsure galley, and that's where I want to play my footy and it's been amazing ever since.

I was actually fortunate enough but like a Christmas drinks fortunate enough to run into the new president of the club.

So he wasn't actually there when I signed on, but he came on as president and then offered me a job as an air conditioning.

Talking about that, Yeah you're air conditioning now.

I think my son are on TikTok doing Friday telling us about you.

Raffi's all over TikTok.

Yeah I did that for a little bit of a laugh.

Yeah, I'm just really because my mate was doing it on the electrical side.

But there won't be many more of them.

I'm getting too busy at the moment.

But yeah, they've started my apprenticeship in January this year and I'm loving and I'm going out there.

I've got all the tools and it's so good just having a being judged on something that's a that's a result.

It's like, you don't do this job, Okay, the air CON's not working, why not go fix the darks whatever it may be.

Do that job done well done.

Where it's like in footy it's like, go out there, you do nine, I've sent the job well ten percent that we touched on, and you still feel like you getting handed for it.

So just the pressures of working the normal job is a lot easier, and you can just say task orientated.

Would you like to coach at some stage you're doing a bit of work.

Yeah, with Furture doing assistant coaching at Ventry Galley.

I'm very lucky to have a relationship I do with the coach down there, Patti Garrity.

He's great.

He's a very good listener, and I bring my ideas to the table and you know, he implements a lot of them, but the ones he doesn't like, he doesn't implement.

So yeah, I think it's certainly something I'd love to do in the future, just think about.

I think the thing I probably need to work on is getting the message across a little bit better.

I can sometimes I feel myself waffling.

Sometimes I'm telling them what to do all my mind as I'm speaking to the boy, saying let's try and do this, and then I do send a goal on tangents.

So we're still a little bit of work on in that point of view.

But certainly something that interests me in the future.

How excited by the next twenty years of footy, in life and maybe your own business, And like you've lived your life in the spotlight, but there's so much exciting stuff ahead.

Yeah, touch the whole time.

But the journey, journey happens for a reason, and it's been a crazy journey so far.

Who knows what the next journey is.

But all I can do is look forward at the moment.

I've got, you know, a great partner, so future with her is going to look look bright.

Really enjoy spending time with her, and you know, I think she'll probably be the mother of my children in the in the near future.

And obviously have great support from my parents.

My mum and dad are great.

They're there, they come and what they come and watch every game playing AFL there down there every week at Fredrick Galley or cold Stream wherever it may be watching.

I have obviously goten the head start in life now with a job.

I'm six months in started trade school.

Have big aspirations there to you know, work well and become as good a technician as I can.

And one of my best mates, Adam Oxley, who played at Collingwood.

He's a mechanical plumber in his second year apprenticeship.

So in our paths may cross and join, going to business together at some stage down the road.

But yeah, I think it's just an exciting time and I'm free.

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