Whenever you're going to do something like this, you don't want to bug it up.

So if you're going to sack a coach, you need to be very very clear as to how you're doing.

If you're gonna do this, you need to be one hundred you know.

It has to be done with integrity.

It has to be done with a lot of thoughtfulness, It has to be done in a very careful way.

It has to be done with a sharp knife.

You're gonna take your head off sharp knife.

So and they probably couldn't have watched it if they had tried.

I'm John Ralph and I'm Glenn MacFarlane.

Welcome to Sacked, a podcast that explores what really happens when the ax falls in the AFL world.

Will take you behind the scenes with some of the biggest names in football and find out how they found out their time was up and who pulled the trigger.

Sacked IFL is made possible with the support of subscribers to.

The Held Sun.

To find out more, go to Heldsun dot com or download the Herald Sun app at your app store today.

The last one to know the second part of our chat with Damian Drum.

Damian Drum spent more time as an AFL coach in waiting than he did in the hot seat, given he was up for roles as the coach of the Swans the Demons, and he almost had the Collingwood job before moving to Fremantle in one of the most notorious coach sackings in AFL history.

Drum learned of his sacking on live television just nine games into his third season in the top job, and yet it allowed the former Shed builder to embark on his most consequential role yet two decades as a member of state and federal Parliament.

Rockett has a team meeting on a Monday, and he takes them through the game and he says, right, right now, it's over to Drumming to work out all your additional training sessions and work out what you're doing.

So I get arena.

So write our additional waits for Smith, Jones, Brown, Black and Smith.

Again, we're doing extra, a little bit of extra cardio for these five, these five players, visio and doctors need to be in tomorrow.

Locket and Kelly.

Right as soon as I say Lockett's name, his head drops down, he drops his eyes straight down, his feet.

I know Lockett's not going to turn up.

So at this stage he's got a dodgy knee and they're more or less putting a needle in and sucking the extra fluid out early in the week to enable that to get better so he can play next week.

And we need him to turn up.

And so I know he's not going to turn up.

So as all the players are walking out, I'm at the exit.

Players are walking past me and Tony turns up.

I said, Tony.

He doesn't look up.

Tony doesn't look up as he walks past me.

I put my hand around his throat, just stopping the very game.

He says, take your hand off, mate, I need you take your hand off.

So I've got to make a decision now in front of in front of twenty and I'm blocking the doorways told me to get tap my hand off.

I decided to double down and put a bit of a squeeze.

Mate, mate, I need you just tell me you're going to be next thing.

His hand is around my throat and I've got this, and then the strangle to well.

Then I yes, he was Tony Colors.

But then I start to feel my feet leave the ground.

So he is simply sliding me up against with my back.

I say, mate, I tap out.

You win.

Anyway, It's an interesting one because Tony then doesn't talk to me for a month.

Okay, goold, hold a grudge.

And and just one that I got incredibly wrong, you know, thinking right, I've got to stop this.

I can't let him walk out.

Let him walk out and just go and have a chat with him.

You know, I had him a chance, had my time again.

But so he didn't turn up the next thing.

He didn't turn up, didn't turn up for.

The didn't turn up for the for the physio or the doctors.

And but as I say so, I'm talking to him all the time.

He's just ignoring me for the next month.

And then he breaks it.

We break it down and it's all good.

Then my gay back and talk to him, said so, mate, why why are you so fierce about what should have been a bit of a joke.

And he goes, mate, no one touches me, No one not an aggressive don't don't think he can be aggressive physically with me.

And you should have known him better.

I said, yeah, you're right, I should have known him better.

But I anyway, so you get a few things wrong and that's my best one.

I got wrong with Plugger, but he was again he you know, along with a few others, effectively save that club definitely from where it was going and the path through to where it went.

And along with Barassi, and you know, the emergence of Paul Kelly can't be understated any of it.

Like he's a young kid from Wagga, you know, four five five six stone, ringing wet, but he could just run and became the most inspirational captain that club could ever have hoped for as a as a homegrown boy.

He put Andrew Dunkley, who you know wasn't a great kick, but he became a seriously good full back.

And so we had some really really good players and Paul Ruse comes in and all of a sudden we've got a seriously good team.

And because Barassi had also insisted that we keep our draft picks and the AFL had given us, the AFL had given us a very good suite of drafts.

By the way, too, we're able to put Leo Barry on our list because he's a new South Wales boy without him going through the draft.

You know, we got Adam huskis an early draft pick and we got Brad Seymour because he was a new South Wales boy.

So we had, you know, the AFL with very generous in those early days Sydney, but they had to be because we were a bit of an embarrassment and so but to turn it round so quickly, which I put it down to Barassi being firm that we would bring the best kids in.

Wade Chapman came in and played a pivotal role in that preliminary final and along with all the assistance that we got from the AFL, Barrassi having faith in the kids to come through and it all worked very very well.

In that ninety five season.

Eight wins for the year matched the target set by coach Ron Barrassi and then Paul Kelly capped off a great year by winning the Charles Brownlow Medals.

And then in ninety six, obviously you're playing in a Grand final Rockets doing his stuff and your position as an assistant coach and future AFL senior coach really takes off, doesn't it.

There's a lot of clubs who are you know, you're in the mix for the Melbourne job.

There at one stage that Neil Danaher got how close did that come?

Then Richmond, and then we'll get to collingword after that.

Well, the interesting thing is, as Ralphie said earlier, in those days with Barras, I was doing a hell of a lot of the coaching work.

And I could have I could have been the most wanted criminal on the face of the earth.

None would have.

Known where I lived.

So you know, you're doing all this work and no one's interested.

All of a sudden, Rodney Eed turns up and Rockett wants to take training himself.

Rockett wants to do all the planning.

Rocket wants to do a lot of the set plays.

Rockett wants to do because he's a young coach and he's doing what all coaches do, and that's most of the work.

I'm sitting there now, I'm doing one fifth or one tenth of the work that I've been doing previously.

And now everyone's talking me up.

I said, where's the where is the only because we were winning winning, we're winning what he is doing a great job in Sydney.

He must have a good team around him.

Drum bloke must be doing okay, he must be doing some good things.

But compare with what I had been doing the previous years with Brass.

It was a fraction of what I was doing under Rocket, But again Rocket had been through the assistant gig under Pagan.

Absolutely, so he was very supportive, you know, would give me work to do that he knew that was going to help.

It was more than help.

Happy.

When I had any interest from any other club, Rocket was very again, he was very supportive.

So yep, you can just go down and talk to them, and he said, we'll just keep it to ourselves and you know, we'll we'll tell who we need to tell here.

But Rockett was very, very helpful.

How close did you get to the Melbourne job and the Richmond job?

Yeah, I think Richmond was one that I thought was never going to happen because Geeseen had had that incredible success as the caretaker coach.

Unleas I was there that day.

It's Icon Park, Princess Park, whatever it was when they ran down Carton when he was there in an interm.

And therefore, I think they weren't totally sold on Jeff and they were looking to see if they could maybe bring someone else in.

But I just knew that in the day and age that was just going to be near impossible.

So I was able to go along to those interviews and it went very very deep.

By the way, I remember two in the morning, Tony Jewell looking at me with his you know, just shaking his head.

So you've got to give us, You've got to give us something that we can go to our supporters.

I said, I think you guys have already made your decision, or your decision has already been made for you.

So that was always a bit the case, and it turned out that that's out played out.

But with Melbourne, I was always thinking that I was going to get that job.

And even when I spoke to Neil after our last interview, it just came down I think myself and Neil and we discussed this one with Joe what's his name, the guy that owned Joe GOODNICKI the final interview.

The final interview comes down to we've got to actually be interviewed by Joe Goodney.

Right, So we've been through all the football.

With all of these fame football acum and it.

Comes down to this.

And I met and Neil have laughed about this many times.

The question comes, okay, you're zero and five.

Next year.

What are you going to do?

Right, That's a good question to ask aspiring coach.

So I go through with what you think would be a reasonable reasonable answer.

Well, I'll be talking to the club, making sure that the board understands what we're doing, making sure that all the coaches feel strong, secure and safe.

And if you want the coach, don't want to coaches a second, you know, the assistant coach, I want them second guessing themselves, making sure that players have maintained their conference but been fierce And so I give a reasonable answer.

I find out that Neil has said, Joe, don't worry about what I'm doing.

I'm worried about how you're going to act.

I'm very excited to be involved with such a great football club as Melbourne.

He's one of the oldest football clubs in Australian probably the world, so I'm really excited to be involved in the rebuilding process that's now in front of the job Neil.

Yeah.

Well, I think Neil has failed.

Back at him and to his credit, was a stunning coach for the next teen years.

You know, and again should have should have been able toluck into a couple of premierships with those Grand finals that he was in and yeah, and again talk what was a horrible, you know, performing team.

Maybe got him at the right time with young needs and young swords and a few others coming through, and Neil was able to sort of do really well with that.

In Collingwood, that was a long drawn out scenario there, Damien, that everyone went denied and denied.

But were you ever offered from anyone associated with the club the job when Tony Shaw had it?

I think we can talk, honestly, statue.

The limitations are going, aren't they They're over?

I think so.

Again, Collingwood contact me halfway through the year, and and this is Tony Shaw's third year.

Contracted for a fourth.

No, no, but but anyway, they we have all we have these meetings in secret, and predominantly it's with a it's with a small group, a subcommittee who appoint the coach.

And effectively they said, right, you're the After the third meeting, I said, you're the one we want.

But you need to meet the whole committee.

I said why, I said, oh, well, sometimes these we've got a big committee.

We need to all be on the same page.

Everyone needs to have buy into your appointment.

Okay.

So I go down to Melbourne and I meet everybody.

A couple of them don't want a third year in a contract, a couple of money one or two year.

A large portion of them were skeptical that I was going to go the way of youth.

Okay, so we've got the bottom team, We're going to get some very good draft choices.

They were saying we should be able to rebuild by bringing in some other plays.

I'm saying, well, it's not my experience.

And so I have a bit of a bit of a contest at that night.

But effectively I leave that night more or less.

I think it might have been that day I got a phone call from Freemantle.

Yep.

So I'm just saying to them, I have one more meeting I have to have tomorrow because Freemantle are flying over to meet me in Sydney.

I've got a meeting with another club tomorrow.

But this should be fine.

And in the end Freemantle came in and just offered three years, and I said, if you want to go with youth, We're happy to go with youth.

They acknowledge that they are in a bad way.

Freemantle just totally you know, they were bought out, yep, and we need to we need to go with someone who will bring the kids through.

Yes, and so as in the end, for two days I.

Had both jobs, so you knew you had the jobs yet two.

Days and then I had to make the decision.

And as it turned out, I reckon, I reckon I misunderstood or overrated the young Freemantle.

Watched a few few of their tapes, saw some good games, probably didn't watch some of the lesser paths to it.

And you know, you get a very high opinion of somebody, you think, but maybe there their consistency levels weren't up to it.

But anyway, and to Moldhouse's credit, so for the following next year, Tony Shaw coaches.

They don't do they don't do very well, and then they bring Moldouse in and Moldhouse then had a very poor first year.

But then more or let's get to you into a grandfar.

Yeah, by two thousand and two he's in a Grand Final.

Which is and effectively did it with what you might call players that have been other clubs.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So there was some reporting that Kevin Rose obviously wanted you as the Collingwood coach, because it had leaked out.

I'm not sure how Tony got wind of it.

Was upset.

Yes, was there any uncertainly there about whether they're still offer you that job or you you had that decision, I will take either job you still to Yeah, it was never withdrawn from you.

No, no, no, no, no no.

And it was just I think it was the club's way.

And you know, there's a club's way of saying this.

These conversations with Drum never happened.

Yeah, they had to.

They had to just make that point.

So they went and supported Tony again.

And you know that I felt.

I felt terrible the whole way through because I knew what it would be like to be in that role and to have your club, you know, working behind your back, and you know he was just such a loyal Callingwood person.

But again, when you're in that position and yet at that age, you are in a sense blinded by m B.

You are blinded by your own chance to be a senior coach, certainly at such a powerful footy club as Collingwood.

And it was only the as I say, it was the people that were arguing, do we really need to do?

We really need to just go with the kids, or can we bring in can we get rid of these early draft picks and bring up some second hand players?

And I was thinking no.

But I also may have been misunderestimating how good Tony Rocker was going to be, how good Nathan Buckley would be, and you know the dominating roles that they were going Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely because they were seriously, very very good players, along with a range of others.

Yeah, so you take the Collingwood roll.

It's only twelve months on that Mick Maldhouse doesn't coach Collinwood do a premiership.

It's an amazing sliding doors moment.

Yeah.

True.

And also this could have happened.

You know that next year was my first year Wooden spoon.

The next year where Maldhouse comes in and I think he wins first three games and wins another two or three for the rest of the year, that could have been my last year.

You know, you turn around with a Wooden spoon and six wins in your second year, even though you contracted for I could easily have had two year contract, two year career at Collingwood and you've got to be you know, so it's very tough.

So if collingwand had said to you at the time, you can do whatever you want, you can take kids, you can do whatever.

Would you have taken Collingwood?

Would you have taken that job?

You think?

Just not mind ball decision?

And those meetings where did they take place?

Like they clearly leaked out?

Just fascinating that how close it came, because I think everyone realized that it was that close, it was nearly done.

They came to they took place, and the residences of the guys that were on the subcommittee.

And you obviously don't want to say who they are, but it was but it was.

So and as I say it was, it was a dark for me.

It was a dark process to go through.

Of course I wish, I wish I hadn't have done it, in many instances of wish I hadn't have done it.

And because Tony was contracted, Because.

Tony was contracted, and you know we were we started talking, you know, maybe halfway through the year, and it was so as it turned out.

As it turned out, I think Mouldhouse was able to do a brilliant job when he took over that team, that club, and then I got my opportunity over at Freer and that one didn't work, but at least they gave me the license that I was looking for to, you know, to go to the draft and bring in some talent and see where we went.

Well, thanks for sharing that.

That's fascinating.

So long years the number two pick.

You've got players like Clement Bond, kick It, Adrian Fletcher, Brad We're our Daniel Bandy, Stephen Coop, Spider Burton, a mix of players.

But I think you said later on, look, it was trying to find your a very very average list, so you should have cut deeper.

You should have brought five more kids in.

Did it take a not very much time for you to realize, Okay, this is a pretty deep dark hole.

It took me a while, probably took me that first year, and I I suppose to put a bit of perspective back to it.

When the club formed, Jared Nish was able to bring back maybe five or six or seven really good wa boys in the in the AFL.

So Steve and O'Reilly comes back in, Peter Mann comes back in, and there's a range of others.

Chrissy Bond comes over.

Good characters as well, just ripping Felts.

The problem was that after four years with Jared and another year with me, they were all just about done and Dustin.

So I just I a dove tailing I had.

I had a whole heap of thirty three thirty four year old Ben Allen had already retired and so a lot of the guys that were the leaders of the club were struggling to get a game and it was just a tough, very tough environment then to sort of say, right, what are we going to do here?

So again I had ripping support from Terry Bright was the coach I took with me from Victoria.

Mark Riley was a coach who was in lace under Jered Neisham, who was really good.

And you know, Jerry McNeil was a foody manager who was a ripping, ripping footy manager.

So I had really good support and so the board were fantastic for two years.

But again they were looking for a quicker ascension and it didn't quite didn't quite come about.

But at least we stayed true to our word and we kept those kids.

We kept bringing the kids in, you know, and gave away didn't give away any of our top draft picks in that until we had to go and get Peter Bell when he became available.

That Peter Bell very nearly became David King.

So we were talking to David King all year.

Really he was very keen to come over, but you know, North Melbourne again just made it very clear to him it just wasn't It wasn't going to happen.

So you have a six ade and Sinclair for Peter Bell, and he played a lot of games for free and obviously Identity and a football boss there.

Last game of ninety ninety nine, it's through the infamous tanking.

It's the Hazerby game where Geelong kicks.

See the last eleven goals of that game.

You know, some players will probably played out of positions.

Of course you can get a priority pick if you lose, that player turns into Matthew Pavlich.

Take us through the lead up where your president, Ross McLean, you know, probably reminds you is that the right word?

So we need to win this game, and everyone at that stage was taking advantage of the rules.

Yeah, I think there was a little bit of there was a bit of talk around the foot traps in w A.

You know, the doctors would be nuts if they win this game.

So we're very much aware of that.

We're very much aware of how good both Pavlich and hazle By are.

So whichever way we choose with our other pick depend who's going to be the the concession player.

Anyway, we we compete, we do as hard as we do, as hard as we can, We go as hard as we can.

Doesn't work out our way and we end up getting a pavilege as a compensation for losing that game, you know.

And this, this situation now has led to the NFL and the n b L, NBA, so they create a lottery, a lottery, and you know, so that may happen or now it's got the situation where the AFL simply make these calls based on the based on the severity of the season.

So I mean, obviously, I think Terry Wallace has said in a similar game he felt conflicted, but there was nothing.

You guys, you can't do anything about that.

Done like Melbourne did.

Was it right that you that Matthew Pavlich said to you at one stage, if you draft me to freemantle, it will be my worst nightmare come true.

He said that his mum, his mum, who was the most lovely lady of all time said, I can't understand why you would want to do this?

He said it to you, Yes, yes, you're gonna.

He's got he's got a posse of thirty friends and relatives that go and sit together to watch him play with Norwood.

Why would you want to take him to Perth because he's possibly the best kid in Australia.

Yeah.

So, but Matthew was very, very, you know, strong.

He said it would be my worst nightmare.

What did he say to you?

I think he said that publicly, But what was he saying to you?

Don't take me?

Yep, yeah, absolutely don't take me.

I don't want to go, you know, very keen to stay there, and he was.

He was just a stunningly you know, mature, young young man and he was.

He was letting us know exactly how he felt.

It's interesting about his third In his third training session at the club, we're doing a series of one kilometer sprints around the ground, two and a half laps flat out.

You've got about five minutes in between each one.

He's done four of them and Terry Bright, my assistant coach, walked up to me said, I reckon young Pablet has had enough, and I said, but he just won the last one.

He said, yeah, I reckon, he's had enough.

I said, he's got to learn.

He's got to learn.

We'll give him one more.

Halfway through the one kilometer time trial, he collapses, Pick him up straight to hospital, overnight in intensive care, just overnight watch.

But he needn't know.

So he is a very you know.

So we should have had I should have displayed greater awareness.

However, he was absolutely determined.

He wasn't gonna he wasn't just going to pull over and sort of say I'm a bit buggered, I'm a bit tired enough.

He ran until he collapsed, and there was a little indication of how driven this guy.

This guy is so from the moment that you did take him, he was chipsy.

In one hundred percent.

He was there early, turne up in great nick even with this this was our first or second night of training.

He's gone bang.

Yeah.

So leading into that third season, I think you won eight games in your second year.

You probably knew you're under some strife.

You lose by one point against Carlton, and then you lose the next eight and things are brewing and you know, I think you've talked about your demise, and you've talked about some people being pretty sloppy and quite deceitful, so we understand how it ended.

What was the prel you did that again?

I reckon there was a couple of other games there where we're in winning.

Positions, weren't getting back.

You lost by forty nine to forty four points.

But a lot of seventeen eighteen twenty two point losses.

And those seventeen eighteen's.

There was one game against Brisbane in Brisbane, they're going to win the flag.

I think they're going to win the flage.

Yeah, and we go in at three quarter time, we're four or six points up, we hit the first goal in the last quarter, go ten points up.

They kick the next eight and give us a bit of a you know, in the last quarter.

So at ten minutes in the last quarter we're probably three goals.

We're two goals down there, really young side and against the best team in the comp.

But there's another game against Richmond that we are in a position to win and they weren't very good at the time, you know, and we should have won that, and all of a sudden we don't get there, we don't get up.

So there's a range of games there that we're thinking cheapest, this is, this is really going to hurt us, And then you start to be I've always been a realist with this when you're ero five and you know, and someone from the board and so you know you're going to have to get one soon, mate.

So yeah, Ernest, and we will.

But you know the game that we lose to Carton by a point, Tony would I have taken a mark in the goal square and the umpire has put him on the goal line like he's got to kick it through.

He's got to kick it through an injury the way, and of course he kicks a point, but he should have been should have been straight in front anyway.

The whole range of little things like that stay in your mind.

But the element thing is you go in ero nine.

You know that it's going to come in some stage.

We got it.

You've got to win or it's going to come.

Tell us about that day you're meeting with the AFL.

Tell us about that.

Well, I don't know much about the night before, but certainly on the day they were just we had a meeting with the AFL and it was predominantly about planning for next year, where our where our training venue is likely to be, what sort of assistants were going to get.

We needed a new facility that was sort of in the process of getting getting fundraised and built.

We had a whole range of games that we had questioned that we were looking so I knew I was under you know, a huge amount of pressure, but still to do your job, you go to these meetings and you work through it.

So then as we're breaking for a coffee, David hat says to me, oh, there are some reporters outside.

I'd be going out through the side door, right And I said, why would I go through the side door, because I just might want to avoid the reporters, And I said, doesn't worry me.

So I walk out and I walked straight into the whole camera mass and they're letting me know that.

I'd be compared in Melbourne.

Have you been given the sake do anything?

Does that's true about it?

Told?

So I just stuck around.

So Adrian Barritge more or lessays, Drum, you've forgot a minute.

Yeah, sure, So I walked up and he says, so, what's going on?

You know, what's happened?

I said, I don't know what you're talking about, what's going on?

And yeah, I'm sure this vision has been played a million times.

Like you've officially gone viral.

It's a little bit like reality TV before it's time.

So let's sack a coach and let's do it on television.

That would be good.

That'd be good.

So yeah, I'm standing in front of the camera and Adrian Barratt is more or less telling me that I've been sacked, and I'll go, no, you can't be that can't happen.

Surely that's not right.

And anyway, I think I had to go toarlet or something, so I'll be back in a set.

I've nearly collapsed just going up the stairs anyway.

And you said bright and breezing and he's lovely grind on your face and then you're just bewildered by it all.

I mean, it's it's tragic to watch and it's comical in some way and it's heartbreaking for you.

Well, it is one of those.

It was just whenever you're going to do something like this, you don't want to bug it up.

So if you're going to sack a coach, you need to be very very clear as to how you do it.

If you're gonna do this, you need to be one hundred you know.

It has to be done with integrity.

It has to be done with a lot of thoughtfulness.

It has to be done in a very careful way.

It has to be done with a sharp knife.

You're going to take your head off sharp knife.

So, and they probably couldn't have botched it if they tried in a better way.

But I think in their defense, the president had a business trip in Victoria that next day, and I had a good as Ross mcclas and Ross and I had a good relations and maybe he wanted to tell me personally.

Maybe he wanted to be the one to tell me.

So said, well, we won't say anything for twelve twenty four hours, and let me get back from my business trip and I'll go and see.

So that that's the only sort of defense that I can give them.

And as it turned out.

Someone's leaked it out.

Someone's leaked it out, and once it's leaked, it's it can't be bought back in.

So what do you do after that?

So you go back and what hotel was was at a hotel wasn't it.

At a hotel and hotel ultimately you And the one good thing about being an assistant coach for quite a few years in Sydney is that I had seen many coaches getting sacked.

Been a player, seen many coaches getting sacked.

So you learn, you learn from just observing.

This one over here did it with a fair amount of grace.

This one over here too nasty on everybody.

This one here blamed the players, this one blamed the coaches, This one blames somebody else.

This one over here was fantastic, you know.

So you know, even in that very short time, you know how to act.

We know how you should act, and I was, luckily I was.

I'll just keep it together and say if this has happened, so be it.

You know, thank everybody good luck, and you sort of very quickly move on.

You know, it might be what you're thinking, but you certainly know how to how to act, and you have to maintain your dignity.

So when you get told by the media you make phone calls, how quickly does it become apparent to you it's true.

So there's only a few minutes.

We've just been a call to Jered mc Neil is this is it really happened to it?

And then yeah, then you realize it's happened.

So ultimately it's a matter of just go home.

And yet that night you do an interview with Dennis Committee in your pilot as well, like you feel like saying stuff that I'm not wearing a pilo outside outside your hand, Dennis.

But you know that's the way it's been over the last five or six weeks.

What do you expect.

I don't expect any good news tomorrow.

I think I'll I think I'll be getting some a couple of poor phone calls tomorrow.

Have you spoken to your president today?

I left the message on my phone before we had to fly to Melbourne, so he just wants to talk to me tomorrow.

So it wouldn't have been the only one.

Oh, it's been running pretty busy, but that's the way things are in these times.

You've heard all of that.

Is he definitely going to be sacked tomorrow?

Unfortunately he is.

Yes.

The Freemanal Board Friminal Board voted today to sack Dame in Drum.

It was a secret man he held this afternoon.

I understand the chairman Ross McClain again that's what we had done all year.

So ultimately it was again an opportunity for me to wish the club well, an opportunity for me to just effectively, you know, thank those that have thank those that have put me in that position, and move on.

You know.

So I just didn't want to didn't want it to end in a in a disaster or a name calling situation.

You know, I really felt I got great support.

There was I can there was one one chap there that probably could have been a bit more upfront and honest.

So if you send that, it's still on Talking Footy and they flash back to you and your daughter's there looking Dennison and you know, Bruce makes a fifty comment about it.

Yeah, what was the toll taken on your family?

Ah?

Well, in my young bloke Glueke, who's thirty three, gets into a blue at school the next week because someone's teasing him about your dad's been sacked, and but you know, that's part of growing up, you're getting teased.

Most of the other kids were a bit young, so that's that's by the bye.

But ultimately, you know the fact that we got to go to Sydney and live in a fantastic city as Sydney had his amazing experiences.

Then we've got to go to Perth.

Great opportunities again.

Unfortunately the footy didn't work out.

And if you don't win games a footy, you know you're gonna get sacked and so and the club has every right to do that.

And you know, as I say, in the club did it.

Apart from the way they botched it at the coal face cold face, behind the scenes, they were incredibly good.

You know, the committee members would come up, would ring me up, sorry about that.

We had to do it, you know, so they were they were generally nice people.

They just watched that process which is pretty Yeah, it's just a shame that it went that way.

You retired from football, national preselection, victorian Legislative Council seat and then in twenty sixteen across across to the federal seat of Murray.

Twenty extraordinary years in politics had he distilled.

You know, it was even more dramatic and more Machiavelli than football.

Well again, lucky in Australia, every bloke I meet, every person I meet, loves talking about footy and I love talking about politics.

So it's amazing it's a very easy conversation starter.

It doesn't matter whether they want to talk about foota where they want to talk about politics.

That's very easy to get started with the conversation.

Yeah, just a couple again, a couple of really strong phone calls from people that I knew.

So they said you'd be good at this as a spot available, interested in this and said, well, I've always been interested in politics, never thought it'd be for me.

Said well, you should ever think about this, and I wouldn't mind you having a coffee with this person and just give you a feel for the actual job.

And it's amazing.

As demanding as footy is, and as becoming such nearly becoming a science about how to handle people, how to play the game, how to control the footy, how to you know, move momentum and so forth, and it's become quite a thing.

It is still just about footy, and it's amazing.

When you go into politics, you realize, wow, there's just so much about our society that I had no idea about.

So who funds schooling, who funds the education system and the universities, and who funds the roads and the different types of roads, and you know who looks after the cops.

What's the difference between mean, what's the difference between a freeway and a highway and a main thoroughfare.

And what's the difference between a private school and a government and a government school?

And you go through it and you know who looks after the returned soldiers and who looks after the pensions, and then who looks after disabilities and all these you know, so to work out how society actually works, it's just like this never ending education.

And I've just got that's a little bit of a drug in itself.

You're forever learning stuff.

And you know, we might be passing the law to do with broadcasting, and hey, who do I know in who do I know in the entertainment system that I can go and talk to?

So all of a sudden you go and talk to you know, somebody that you know, and you're having a coffee and you realize this legislation is going to enable them to do this.

Isn't this, but it's going to hinder them over here.

It's going to be tough there.

And then you walk away from that cup of coffee half and now and you've got an understanding.

Now right now, I get it and whether it's kindergartens or does no matter what it is, it's amazing how little I, as a traditional footy coach knew about the world.

And yeah, so it was a great opener.

I've been able to realize this is how it really works.

And you had to deal with some incredible personalities in that time.

Malcolm Turnbull in there for a period of time, and.

So you were standing up for Malcolm journal for a lot of that time.

You even called for Tony Abbots through one of their many internice end battles.

It's interesting I go into the Parliament and Malcolm Turnbull's my pride.

What I'm endeavoring to do is to obviously.

Ensure that the party is stable, to maintain the disibility of the Government of Australia.

That's critically important to me.

Just like you are a young player, he's your coach.

He's your coach, so you have just a natural loyalty.

And you know, it's true that Malcolm tombul had undermine Tony Abbott to achieve that position, but that wasn't during my time, so you know, and Tony was making things difficult for Malcolm Turnbull and I stood up one time and called it, called it out.

But it doesn't matter.

Doesn't mean that one's better than the other or one's worse than the other's just that means that they both wanted the same So.

What happens when you say Tony should retire.

What happens after that, in the next twenty four hours, Well.

He grabs me as we're leaving the Parliament that night and wants to know, wants to know why I said what I said, And I told him, I said, I said, oh, you openly, you openly, you know, were contravening the you know, the party rules or the by you know, slagging off at the Prime Minister in front of the party room.

And I said that's just not on.

And he looked at me and he said fair enough.

Yeah, So Tony hadn't looked at me and said yah, fair enough.

He respect well, he said he's been called out, and I respected him even more for taking that view.

So, but it's an interesting one, you know, like you know, they're out, they're our team, fully supportive.

But it's a little bit like footy.

You know, all the people in that house all want the same thing thing, It's got a different way of getting there.

They want better education outcomes, they want better roads, they want better they want you know, the more thriving economy.

They all want the same thing.

They've just got a different view about how to get it.

So it's not like half the team are just no good.

Half the half the Parliament are no good and the other half are all brilliant.

You know, everyone's just flawed as each other, but everyone's just brilliant as each other.

And it is quite an interesting sort of mixture.

Was it an interesting scenario with Michael McCormick and Barnaby Joyce and the lobbying from Barnaby there as well.

How challenging period was.

That for you?

Well, pretty challenging, you know.

Ultimately you get into these situations and within six months Barnaby has put me into a junior ministry and I'm thinking, right, this is good.

And then Barnaby get himself in the Fair to Strive six months later, the whole range of accusations and he steps down, Michael steps up, and then see it feels that I'm too close to Barnaby, too class to Barras I need to put some of my own people in there so I get the I get the short shift because I'm supposedly too close to Barnaby.

Then Barnaby spends a whole heap of time.

I'm back as the party whip, and people that don't know about politics, a whip is like a team manager.

Okay, so you're the team manager.

You're not the coach, not the captain, you're not the star player, You're the team.

Yeah, you're going to ring everybody, make sure things are going okay at home, and make sure that all the members of the party team are feeling has either been listened to?

Is that they're all the physio on Tuesday?

Yeah, it will turn up for the physio and don't and don't dodge the doctors.

So as a team manager, I'm consistently now rebuffing Barnaby's move to try and unseen Michael.

So for the guy who who has actually you know, sacked me as an assistant assistant minister has now I'm now I am Well, he's my he's my leader, and I'm going to be I'm going to be fully supportive of him.

And then I get so it is an interesting one.

If you want to be honorable, you want to do the right thing, sometimes shitty things happened to you, and I copped a few of those along the way.

But again, you wouldn't have it any other way.

You know you wouldn't, So you wouldn't.

You wouldn't live with yourself.

If you then undermine your own leader.

You might be the first honorable man in Poltany because all the people you're talking about, they all stabbed backs and they all got to well Barnaby became Deputy Prime Minister.

Well an interesting one, isn't it that Barnaby deep down would have thought in his own mind and probably right, the National Party are the junior party.

What we need is a really strong, outspoken leader who gets it right nine percent of the time, and that's Barnaby.

Michael is considered measured, softly spoken, and you know, we'll probably just creep ahead and creep ahead and it won't make any mistakes.

So safe pair of hands versus someone who's outspoken, dynamic and crazy.

So if Barnaby's prepared to if Barnaby generally thinks that he's the one that can take the party for it, he's he's committed to doing whatever it takes.

And I'm saying no, no, no, no.

There's a series of there's a series of protocols that need to be adhered to.

But you know, I spoke to Barnaby this morning.

I need him to do I need him to do some work, so I'll give him give him a call.

And so this happened.

This is thing's happening over here.

The governments some funding away from this.

We need to try and get it back.

And he says, yep, I get it, and he will go to work on that one.

And if I need to do similar with others.

It's good to know that the phones are always there.

Absolutely yeah.

And what do they say when you walk into the wind of the street that they say you can urge along or free?

And how it ended or do they talk about your politics?

Well, it's lovely.

It's a lovely mixture of both.

I'm very very lucky.

I've got a great bunch of old footy mates that we play a lot of golf together.

And then those footymates have got other mates.

They're just ripping guys.

So we've got a great punners club that play golf and we love life.

And then I've got all my old state parliamentary team that I caught up with the other night because there was a Bowls night on at Parliament.

If I have to go to Canberra, which I did three or four months ago, it's just very warm and open, and I can walk around to Richard Miles's office from the Opposition and have a good chat with him, and all the conversation there becomes about the cats we're talking.

So I'm very lucky that the journey has led where it's led, you know, And I'm just in a very good place where people say, you know, you wish you're still in Parliament.

Okay, listen, I loved every moment of the twenty years, but I'm glad I'm oud of it.

Thanks for listening to Sacked.

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