I mean the way that Cyril was treated at the football I've never seen anyone else treated as well.

I've never seen anyone else treated with as much respect as Cyril.

And his Ever, the week before Cyril leaves, he tells me it's the happy it's ever been the club.

I'm John Ralph and I'm Glenn MacFarlane.

Welcome to Sacked, a podcast that explores what really happens when the ax falls in the AFL world.

Will take you behind the scenes with some of the biggest names.

In football and find out how they found out their time was up and.

Who pulled the trigger.

Today the High Performance Guru, Part one of our chat with Andrew Russell.

When Andrew Russell was called into Kevin Sheety's office at the Old Hilton Hotel as a teenager and offered a job, not in his wildest dreams would he have been able to predict the three decade high performance career that included six premierships across three clubs that was to come.

Russell was there at the end of the Bombers dynasty, ports for Choke Breaker, and the start of the Hawks decade of dominance from Stuart due to Luke Hodge and Si.

Really he made a career out of preparing premiership players.

Take us to the start.

So you're a fifteen hundred meet at Runner National Runner, Yeah.

I said of ran the National, you know the gone pri meets and all that sort of stuff.

And I came in pretty late to that.

You know.

I grew up in Ballarat and I.

Trained with Steve Wantaghetty and I was on leak true you know, straight record.

So yeah, I loved running.

I love physiology.

I was a swimmer growing up as well.

I played footy, but I was a bum.

Was very good rent all day and up and down.

And then I got involved in I got involved at the Victorian Student Sport.

Because I haven't done a degree or well I was during my degree.

I got there and it, Yeah, it was an internship and I went for my best me and my best mate went for it, and the clip of the coin, I got it, and I got paid eight thousand dollars for a full time job.

And I thought it was the best thing of all.

She just loved it.

And so I came to Melbourne v I S and those days are VS was really highly regarded as sport, like that was the place to be and so I'd go training.

I had some unbelievable mentors, you know, Paul Gaston, Troy Flannagan who's in the NBA.

Now, one of the most highly regards to.

Sciences in the world.

You know, Ver McMillan, Mar McGrath, strength and conditioning.

So I had this real sports science strength nditioning, go to work every day and you see it was foursome.

Dale Evans in the gym.

I did some work with Kathy Freeman speaking conditioning for a while, sonor Sullivan.

Who's right, you know, that's athletes the world I'm either watching or working with.

And at that stage the AFL, they were doing their own thing.

They weren't really interested in people outside, and a couple of people sort of looked over the corner when I was Kevin Chedy.

I was doing the draft camp.

Actually I was running the all the testing of the draft is.

It was out of Waverley.

Yeah, yeah, Waverley days.

Yeah, Lawis Pearl Archie heard your shoulder and they said, winning someone else to help out.

So she's I literally did the first bloke he saw.

First bloke walked across.

You know, you had no idea I could I could have been terrible what I did.

And he said, I made you want a job, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and I was, I was doing so much in my life, It's like, yeah, so I just dropped everything and started working at the Bombs.

I was at the Bombs part time, still at the VS Man.

Yeah.

Look, it was an unbelievable grounding for me.

Lauris burl Archie was outstanding.

I got to see some of the best players who played the game up close so early on.

You did your.

Matthew Lloyd's and your Herds and mccury's.

What a time to be involved in late nineties, late ninety so.

I was, you know, ninety seven just walked through the door, which was not a great year for us, and then and then ninety eight they were a bit better.

And then ninety nine.

Was should have Yeah.

The end of ninety nine, Porter lad knocked on my doors twenty.

Two and said, do you want to come and run out of program at twenty two years of age, and I was on holidays with Matex.

I was driving in the car and driving in the car and I actually thought it was pretty funny, you know, but I thought there was something about essenon why they lost in ninety nine.

It was so she's made them go to the Grand Final ovious there and watch and a few of us stuff with them, and it was extraordinary impact had on that group.

And then I remember going back to the pullman after it.

Yeah, and she's office and.

He certainly spent more time than there.

He still does, and he got him in and basically said, that's this group.

You know that was embarrassing today.

You know, they sat there and the.

Crag got stuck into him and they were the shreds really, you know, and the players hated it, but it was part of that drive and obviously been part of a few groups that have done some pretty special stuff.

That group was that determined and so they approached the preparation like lunatics.

Like that, wele lunatics.

You stay there, you get the premiership.

But they come knocking again, don't they.

The year after, I.

Still don't know Rob Snowden, no idea, you knew someone at Essen and he rings me up again and I said, I said what I said, Well, he rings me up and I had an interview with Choco.

Wouldhel Welsh so imposing characters to have interview with.

So I walked in and I'm so young and raw and brash or not not not not brash, just I thought I had a good understanding of what I thought the game should be and and part of that was based on Essendon, and part of it was based on well, I want to grab what they did and do, and I then want to build on that because I thought there were things that that could be.

Done as well.

So and I remember sitting and and Chocko, as we knows, you know, this is the way the game is, this is what it's going be played, and I said, I don't agree with that.

I think this is the way the games going, you know, and she's like, you know, really, I made a decision.

I remember thinking I'm going to live and die by the sword here.

I'm either walking out the door and they do not want anything to do with me and I'm done, or they might like it.

And so I learned a lot.

I stood up to what I thought where the game was going.

Which was what well.

I came from a middle distance running background, so I'm saying, you know, bring bring some science and physiology to this game.

And for me, it was a blend of speed, repeat speed with a layer of endurance.

And so at that time back in the AFL, because we're going from semi professional to professional, so a lot.

Has changed in that time of the century.

Teams were very speed orientated, or teams were very durance orientated.

So I went to a.

Football club, Port Adelaide that was very endurance, done a lot of endurance work.

So I knew that.

I worked that out.

I did research.

So I said, well, we can make it.

Put a lot of.

Speed, repeat speed, the John Quinn stuff, and then and then maintain these Arabic qualities and then build on that.

I think we've got a great product.

I went down to the track I got and so anyway, Choco and Phil obviously you know there's something in what they heard.

And I realized then the truck, I need to be chalanced, like I had to go at him smartly at the right time, pick the moment.

But and he was.

He was extraordinary to me, Like I mean, for.

Someone who'd never done anything in the game.

The amount he backed me in was it because the players are older than me.

I walk in there, the players are older them and Walsh as well, I mean those two.

I mean, that's the reason it worked for me because they backed me to the hill.

Just like if any criticism kind of my way to bang, they just shut it down straight away.

So would they confront you or challenge you behind closed doors?

But then in front of the players, this.

Is our man.

And I remember I went down to the running.

Track, I got the job.

Breught Montgomery said, mate, where a debarcle?

You know what are you gonna come?

What are you doing to us?

I went to the and best and Ferris and I just won it.

And I hope people come up to you for realsk your case.

Are you doing?

What are you doing?

And I'm like, I had no idea.

I walked in the first training session and just come from Cedon Too, supposedly as good a team as ever, and I thought, oh my god, how good are these How good are their skills?

Their skills are better than this day one.

Really were better than senate skill level.

And if you look back now, you think, well, so that's what they became.

We became a hard running, highly skilled team playing up against Brisbane who were tough and ruthless and highly skilled team.

And so you know, we won whatever was seventy percent of the game.

A coupleships yeah, we.

Lost four games two years in a row, and then we and then we you know, then we look So anyway back to when I got there, I had ten weeks of pre season before Christmas in.

The first year, which you might get three or four.

And now with the whole group.

And I what I put them through.

I've never put another group like I went hard, as in as in really hard.

So people wouldn't believe what we did for a training week.

And this is the ridiculous of us.

Very very quickly, on Monday we do like this repeat speed hard track like fast and hard.

Monday afternoon we do light skills waits.

Tuesday morning we would do like an individual needs session aerobic session running was half the group.

Tuesday afternoon's main skills.

Tuesday night the midfielders.

We then go and play at the local touch rugby in the park, so we Josh cars Do Franco and Nick Stevens.

We go and play against the public and play seventy seven.

For fun or for skill, for skill fitness like it was part of the training.

Then Wednesday we want to back up.

We do a two hour aerobic like big aerobic running in sand dune'es.

Thursday was our Friday, we did two sessions speed power skills, and then Saturday morning we did a massive, big up to fifteen k running session and then the guys who were in good shape, we then ride our bikes up Mount Lofty get home at lunchtime.

That's not happening these days.

And so what.

Happened is we had an unbelievably fit.

Group, but we broke some blokes as well, and so we had some guys we had quite a few grown injuries.

So we had seventy five percent and the were in an amazing shape, twenty five cent broken.

So then I had to tweak and change.

And the latest year I was there was four.

That was our lightest training program.

Yeah, because you've got and fit by that stage as well, or because that was the right way.

To do it.

No, well, it was like, well, it became very It was like I knew what each individual needed.

It was like he needs more, he needs less, you know, because then it's not about you got to get him into good shape.

There's one thing getting a team in good shape, and then it's actually getting him to play well at the end of the year.

And there's that's different, you know, And that's hard to do winning.

And I remember a couple of games.

I remember a couple of games where.

I put more work into on a Thursday, I said, chocko, you know, and one we lost and one we just got over the line and difference.

Between the top two and top four and not.

And I skirted the edges that many times load and most of the time got away with it and then page your back later on.

But it's a fine line.

And that a bit of it's like a bit of its science, a bit of it, as you say, he's knowing how good the group is, the team you're playing against, Like tell us that the mix of that across twenty five years, because it's because when you get it wrong, it's.

You know, you get it really badly wrong.

No, you do, you do, And there plenty have got it wrong.

And I've been part of that getting it wrong.

But you know what, You've got to get it wrong to know how to get it right.

You have to be pushing the envelope.

You have to find out their breaking limits.

You have to, and you've got to work out whether they're whether they can do it, because you can't win it unless you know, because they know how hard they can push.

So there's real psychology unit as much as there's physiology in it.

You've got to make them believe.

You have to make the mental sides every bit is important as the physical side in a lot of ways.

Too absolutely, I mean, but it builds together.

You know, you want to build resilience, Yes, becomes where you only build resilience by doing the work and knowing where your breaking point is.

And so I was really comfortable pushing the envelope, really comfortable knowing that, guess what, every now and then you're going to be criticized, but in the big picture, you're going to get more wins than losses.

And and so then as I went through my journey at the clubs, I learned which players I couldn't which players I couldn't.

So remember, you know, going into the final series at Hawthorne, it's just like, these guys need work, like they threw live off it.

So in the end the program ended up going like this in the second half of the year.

So injury forms some of that.

It's just like and the benefit of players getting injured in season is huge if you get the right top of injury, because you then go back and do some top up conditioning work and the top up conditioning work, and I think Richmond, I've spoken to their guys.

They reckon they won one based on a lot of injuries.

I think a lot of injuries in the year.

They came back and they're fresh, fresh because you haven't played a lot of and physically you've done the work.

Hawthorne and fourteen were a bit like that.

Yeah, very stories go back.

Probably calves are the big ones carves because you can't run, but their hardest one she was Hammis you can run them.

There's a lot of injuries you can run, so if you can run.

It was like, you know, Born Picket heard his shoulder in four did a collar bone, so he's out for eight weeks, ten weeks.

He wasn't in good shape and basically me and Clark grabbed him.

Clark and said, you know what, we are going to train this guy like he's never trained in his life before and probably struggled a little bit with the physically and what we've got him down to forty eight skin folds, which is phenomen well.

Would he have been at to start that eight week period.

I think he was about seventy and then he went to Melbourne.

I remember the Melbourne Yeah, yeah, right when he left.

Yeah, So we would training twice a day.

We'd going to the hills.

We'd ride bikes in the mountains.

We're walking up and down the hills.

We would just we just we just we are not going to give him it out.

And guess what, he loved it.

He just turned up, you know, choppy.

If you didn't times turn up, wouldn't turn up.

If your times turn up at five a m.

Eleven am, two pm, six pm, He'd be there every single time.

He loved the routine of it.

I love the routine.

Hewed to win the Norms with battle on, you know, one of the biggest.

You know, so there are some there are some benefits, but your team's got to win enough.

You talked about essen of blokes training like lunatics.

Mark Chocko Wims is lunatic in the best possible way.

It give us your best Chucko's story if you think about the you know, those crazy years I like.

To make certainly our major sponsor are in the phone and Alan Scott's You're wrong.

His passion for the game and his passion like every moment of every day just came out so and he and he just and he wanted perfection.

He wanted perfection.

He's a skill He's a brilliant skill coach, right absolutely, how he teaches players skill of the game and breaks the game down.

Did you know how good he was going to be?

And how did it eventuate that he became the Hawthorne coach and you came with him?

Yeah?

Yeah, Look he was so when we travel into state when he was assistant coach, he would basically find the best coach, the most high profile person, someone he could learn off when he's on the road, and he.

Would ring anyone.

He would just find a number, I mean, just whoever.

It was his first and drive was enormous, enormous, So if he was going to fail, he was going to fail going down swinging that was in really like he puts so much energy into it, working on his craft, to getting the latest knowledge.

He didn't care where we got it from, get it from anywhere around the world.

I'll grab it and then i will adapt it to this game and my players, and then I'll make him believe.

So he went in and you know, and what he did was really smart.

He went in and he went in with a plan.

He went in with a this is how the game is going to be played, which is a bit different to what it was being played.

He sold it unbelievably well to my knowledge.

And he went in selling that he's got this.

Group of people around, which was the key to the people around.

Yeah, the group here is my group.

I trust him and we're going at it.

And did you have you on board at that stage?

Well he did verbally?

How did you he did verbally?

How did you break it to CHOCKO, I'm out of here?

Well there's actually a really good sort.

I changed my mind, so I completely fluffed it.

So I said yes to Clarko.

I wasn't.

I didn't probably think you get the job.

I think he could do the job and do an unbelievable job.

But like everyone was just like geez, the chances are low.

Port adelaid that stuffed me around, not giving me a contract.

They offered me five thousand dollars more to stay, and I wasn't getting paid much at all, Like, will hang on, this is ridiculous, This is like a round sixteen or fifteen or whatever.

I was a bit like come on, you know, like that's a bit of respect.

So I said I'll take my chances.

See Clark, I jumped in very very smart the way he does it.

And then I.

Changed my mind after we win the Grand Final.

So I just had a verbal agreement.

Changed my mind terrible.

The emotion got me so and the reason so the way I changed my mind was on the Monday after the Grand Final, We're at the pub and I said, Chuck, I'm leaving and he said, no, you're not, and.

So Chocko Welsh.

Phil Welsh, the CEO Matthew Primus basically bundled me into a car, grabbed me and said on the Monday.

On the Monday, So Monday afternoon when the boys they basically grabbed me, pulled me back to the.

Father and said well you're not going.

You're not going anywhere.

And so they offered me a shipload more money, and I got caught up a bit in that as a young bloker wasn't getting paid much all as well.

In the end I went to Hawthorne for a lot less than Hawthorne did not change anything off.

So anyway, I really say he goes berserk.

Jason dunstill rings me.

He was the CEO who had been dealing with he rings me on the Tuesday night after the Grand Final.

And he says, he you've changed my mind.

Yeah, And he says, I hear all these people say good things about you.

I think you're the biggest in the world.

You tell me you're a person of integrity.

Well I think yeah, yeah, He.

Goes, I'll make my mind up tomorrow.

I'll be at your place seven o'clock in the morning.

All right, So this is Tuesday night.

Next morning, seven o'clock.

Bang on the door.

Dunster walks through.

Clark I walks through.

Damian Hardware, walks through the door, right straight through the door.

Didn't look at me, did nothing.

Dunstill gets the phone, gets Choco's number up, chucks it at me, and he says, we're happy to be here for five minutes, so.

We'll stay here all day.

We don't care.

You're going to ring him.

You made a deal with me, You made a deal with us.

You said you were coming if you're a man of integrity, ring Choco and you were telling them that you're coming right now, that's incredible.

What take long?

Take a long?

Well?

Yeah, well they went to the draft.

I was booked for the draft camp for two clubs.

And so then there's a story that you know, basically run into each other.

Choco runs into some Dunstall and Clark go in this little mini stairwells.

That physically runs into almost I had a bit.

Of a confrontation.

So yeah, so that's so then I got worn.

I was very happy to be in the end.

I would have been happy to stay at Port Adelaide.

I loved that.

I love the players, I love the club, you know.

And then we and then we started a Hawthorne and the whole football department is new, like I don't think that's ever happened in the game.

It certainly might happen again.

Every single person in the food department.

So it's a blank canvas, which is exciting.

And you might walk into a club that has had turmoil for you know, I mean unbelievable.

So Parker said, I'll go and get my people.

You and go.

You go and get your people.

You get the medical guys, you get the physio.

So that's you know, the great relationship with Andrew Lambert who's still there today, which is amazing.

David mcraths a biomechanist, different perspectives at.

That stage, so you know, we had Peter McCue the doctor, and we had Michael mcdeesey, you know, in that relationship, you know, Michael mcdecy Andrew Lambert the physio, me.

And my was unbelievably, unbelievably.

Unbelievably strong for those players.

And then that connection with Clarko and the footing manager.

You know, over the years, Mark Evans stepped in, who's gone on to do great.

Mcdish's the AFL Chief medical officer.

Just good, but it was it was, it was.

It was a robust environment, but respectful but robust and everyone and everyone was happy with someone jumping into their area.

So the physio'd be happy saying, hanging, mate, you're pushing these guys too hard.

It's good point I am.

I'd go to him and say, you know that guy's not moving that well, he's left tips really stiff.

I think you got do some work on it.

And great, you know, banging and the doctor would be coming it.

So the players knew that we were type, but they knew they were also.

Really robust behind the scenes.

But they knew that we had their best interests, you know, the valuable lesson Rob Snow and the foody manager and what When I went there, he said to me, don't get cut up into the bullshit, don't get care of from politics.

You just need to spend time the players.

Just work on the players bodies and the players' minds.

That's all I want you to do.

Nothing else.

Don't talk to a board member.

Yeah, you don't need to do about supporter.

Don't do anything.

No, just do that.

And it was brilliant advice.

And that's pretty much what you followed through your footy career.

As I mean, that becomes harder as you go because absolutely, you know, I'm a no one at the starts and no one cares.

And then as you go through people start asking more of you.

You start getting drawn in different areas.

It's just naturally sort of, you know what happens.

So you want, you want to try different things, and you know so that you just naturally get drawn into other areas.

So how much of what you would say you did is about the physical stuff and how much that.

Is the mind?

I can't distinguish between the two because they're so into intertwined, you.

Know, they're start intertwined.

And and then it's the on field you know as well, the physical men I'm very involved.

So you know, at Hawthorne, i'd have an assistant coach every.

Year that would work with me on the program and the on field program, so Clark I was overseeing it all.

So you know, every I had, you know, I had had Bevo and then on camera and you know and Simo and then every year I had one of them and we were basically playing the program together.

And so that's conditioning, that skills, that's you know, and then they'd come in and they put their tactical layer on top of it.

But I mean, and I don't know, I actually don't really know how other clubs do it because I haven't had a lot to do with the other performance guys and how they do whatever is.

But you know, the way that we did in the way I did it, and and Trucko completely backed me in and while she but I was very very connected and around the ball program as well as very intertwined.

How much and you'd.

Set the parameters, you'd set the you set the parameters around how long, how often, how long the drill is going to go for?

You know, what are we trying to get out of it?

And then they come in and coach that drill, so there is it's hard to know in the end, so much crossover, that's hard to know who's driving what in terms of the program.

But and I think, you know, I think and I think that even the role hob from his role is not well understood.

So Luke Hodge got up on stage at the Hall of Fame, I.

Think crawf when spoke to Andrew Russell and said, you're going to push this kid out of out of football and Jack said, I will have to wait and see because I'm not going easy on him.

So I think that's the care.

And the guy that we had at the football club.

You had senior blokes who would he would go and try and step in when they needed to.

But I think what what Andrew Us and Clark I really saw was they knew how to read me.

They knew what buttons to push and how I respond.

Tell us about the Luke Codge experience.

Luke Hodge was never lazy.

Every time he trained, he trained hard.

He just wasn't in good enough shape to replicate it over and over and over again because the way that he was living off the field.

So he was always ruthless and always trained hard.

So that never lazy, but he didn't support it by sleeping well by.

You know, he did a lot of time, yeah, getting back home.

So I went harder at Little than I've ever gone at any anyone.

And there are some players that I've never gone hard at.

So again this is the art.

There's some players that all I've done is love them up and supported them because I know they couldn't deal with it.

So to get the.

Best out of them is that in the spectrum, to get out of the best, I just made a decision.

We could see what he was, and you can see that he was a tough human.

You could see was I think this guy The best way to get it out of him is to go hard at him, and not just go hard at him, but go harded him publicly as within our walls.

So and also from my point, it's just like if this guy goes harder at the captain and one of the best players ship, we're.

Robust because there's no different rules for this guy.

And that's so important because when you're talking to one player, you're not talking to one.

Player, you're talking to forty five players.

And every single time you open your mouth, whether that be in a group situation or there'd be one be one.

You have to expect that that conversation is going to go somewhere.

It's a shitty rule.

You know.

You go hard at your players and it trickles down all the way.

How so yeah, so we went so, you know, like do you come in every summer and you go, all right, mate, these are my list.

Of ten weddings and social functions.

And I said, when you got time to be the captain of the foota club, mate, you know, like, here's what do you mean?

So, well, you're the captain of the footay club.

You know, I don't worry about me, mate, I'll be right, they respect me.

I said, well they might now, yeah, but you know you've got to prepare or to do.

So we'd have this negotiation every time.

We have this negotiation all the way through.

So it was a negotiation and he loved it, and he knew that that was part of it, and I knew it was part of it.

So he'd start there and we'd end up somewhere.

I'd start there and we'd end up somewhere in the middle.

But it ended up being really enjoyable.

And then they're all.

Different as well.

You know, like Sam Mitchell comes in and say, mister, it just sucks me dry.

You know, it's just like I'm going to get what I can get out of this bloke.

And then after the first four five he's like, I've got everything I need him and do it myself now.

And so then we sort of became friends, you know, like we' Kevin friends and he goes, I don't need that anymore.

But he was just like in my office every single days, just every day was the same to lunatic knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, knowledge and knowledge thirstirs How can I get better?

How can this bloke help me?

Hodgi, like Hodgie is still walking them office at the end.

So what's the plan today?

How what's the intensity?

How hard do you think it should train?

You know, you think of this guy, he's been doing it for a long time, but he just wanted to have the conversation around which drills do I go hard in?

Because a lot of players in season especially we'll do the you know, creepers like this.

It's like, all right, well, what are we going after today?

This is where I'm at physically, this is where I'm at psychologically.

I think I need more work today or I might go yes or no based on the data and knowing them.

So Hodgi, you always wanted to have that conversation.

But I do remember a couple of times I thought I've reckoned, I've gone.

I think Crawf did say once come and had a chat to you.

He walked in my office said Jack, mate, what are you doing now now?

Which is interesting because what Crawf was saying is a little bit about Hodgy, but it's a bit about him.

He didn't respond to that, And so me and Crawf are very different.

I didn't do anywhere near I didn't.

I mean he didn't need to.

He's professional, he's switched on, his meticulous, he's all these things.

It's just like say, he's like, well, why would you do that to someone?

Because that doesn't work for me.

So I had to say, mate, that works.

You're different, so don't put you.

All leans on it.

So what was the pandrop moment for Luke coach.

The twenty the twenty first the.

Spider Ever at twenty first.

Where he yeah, that was the moment.

That was the moment and.

He explained that a bit more to us about that.

Well, well he got you know, he got drawn into a you know, do a drinking session the night before.

He then ends up being late, you know, the next day for training.

Van is trying to get him Richie Vandenburg couldn't get onto him, comes in late.

One thing about Hawthorne is our standards were ridiculously high.

As in the basics, turn up on time, respecting each other, respect it.

Like it was really simple stuff but really effective.

So if you're a big name player and you didn't turn up or you turn up late, it was a big and everyone knew why.

So I was just like, well, what are you going to do about it?

So what are you going to do?

You know, I mean, what are you going to do about it?

As a group of people, so it was pretty robust, you know, I was pretty strong.

It was very strong, and it was all about it's all about how good could this guy be?

That good enough?

You know, just being good is not It was just like, we feel we've got someone.

Who can be great in our midst and so our responsibility is to help that person to be great, and so someone get them there.

Some of them get them there themselves.

They don't need anyone, so just let them go.

Whereas Hodgy for a period of time needed others before he then drove it himself because he got there.

Stuart ju you're getting back playing footy when he probably was well and truly well done.

Wasn't he was over and was gone twelve kilos a fraction more, wasn't he?

We played at one hundred ninety nine on Grand Final day.

So so the getting him back to the club was a great and Clarko was a driver without doubt.

Chris Pelchin, the list boss, was not keen.

It's fair to say no, and why would you be.

You know, a guy says I'm done, I finished.

Most of the time they've done their finished.

So it was the September, the August.

Of the year before he drafted.

I walked down to the cafe.

Clarko sitting in the cafe with someone I didn't recognize them, and he walks past and he used to you know, he called me Scotty and I called him Scotty.

I don't even know why.

And clark I goes, Scotty, it's Scotty, it's Scotty Jew and I'm like, no, bullshit, it is not that is not Stewie Jude.

What the hell, what's going on?

Mate?

You know, like I don't even recognize you.

He you know, he wasn't in great physical shape.

And Clark I said, he's going to play football.

I said, oh, you're fucking kidding.

Just seriously, there is no way that you were playing football next year.

How long have you been out of the game.

A couple of years?

I think it was a couple of years.

And so I said, okay, literally, I'm sitting there, I said, Clark, I look like I've got so much going on that if he can get down to this way, do not run a step.

All right, he's got to walk, he's got a bike ride, and he cannot run.

Do not run until he gets to this point.

And at this point, I'm now in.

So I goes a good deal.

So clark I goes to work with him.

Clarko is the one that goes for walks with him, goes for bike rides with him.

It's not send him off with the rehab coach.

It's not and him off.

And that's the thing, and that's the thing that Clarko did, and that we did.

Everything that the players did, we did we did with him.

You know, we did it when we go down the beach and we jump in the water and those famous sessions where we jump in the water and all that.

Sort of stuff.

We get in there with them and all investing with them, and a lot of the time, to be honest, you know, there's a great story went down after the Best and Fairest in twenty ten.

I me and Clark, I jumped in first, and it's like we're in first at four o'clock in the morning.

Yeah, Clark tops off at Barnica Oval.

You know, that's what I'm going to do.

Boys.

One of his gifts was just like, I'm in this as much as you know, as much as you're in this.

So how much way did he have to drop to actually start running.

Twenty Yeah?

Really?

Wow?

And so then I got involved and he did it, and he really committed, and he committed hard and he had a real crack and so then then we got him from that down to he was still above he's playing way to Portado.

But it was pretty decent, you know, it was.

It was pretty good.

And his best day was gread.

Final And that's part of folklore, now, isn't it.

Dewey and Cyril and what they are able to do.

It's quite remarkable.

Did Bud Buddy have an issue through that final series as well, did he ever?

Yeah, so eight.

Thursday, so we used to do a goal kicking session for Thursday mornings before we then go out and train on Thursday.

So Thursday, Thursday lunchtime is the main session where everyone comes to watch.

But on that day Hawthorne hadn't been for a long time, so ten thousand people rock up at seven o'clock in the morning.

Bud goes out for his normal kicking session.

I never went down for that session, but I look out and I see everyone cheering and he's kicking goal.

From sixty on the run.

Alright, he's putting on the show.

Come down, Bud and the entertain.

I'm thinking, well, he's entertaining, there's nothing wrong with that.

He can come in and sits in the team meeting before we go and train straight after it.

And I catch his eye because I used to stand on the side of the room and he's at the in the back row, center of the back row, like you know, I'm the man, although he didn't want to be the man, but he's still sat in the seat that said you want to be the man.

And he looks at me and I'm thinking, I know that look from Bud.

He's no good, as in something's happened and physically he's no good.

So he walks up to me and says to me straight after the meeting, I think of tom My hamstring.

This is This is eleven o'clock on Thursday morning before Grand Final day.

So we went out to.

Train and I said, and I said that it's it's the only time I've ever lied in match committee or to a coach and said what I didn't believe in all right, because I thought he'd injured himself all the tests he went in the physio room every test.

Said that he's done his hamstring all right.

So we said, all right, during training, Crody's going to be on the side of training.

So you're just going to stand there and do touch with Crody and don't train, don't around at all, all right.

And then we'll send you for an m RS.

So training, no one because he'd been kicking.

Goal from everything in the morning, no one picked up and he didn't train or they must have thought that was just the plan.

So no one kneowre think and so and we said, well that's a plan for Crody.

He didn't train last week.

So no one really made a big deal about so no one knew anything.

He goes to get the mr right.

I go to match committ at one o'clock and I said, oh, buzz a bit, tiny's hammy.

He's going to be okay.

You know, we're just going to do a surveillance scan.

He's going to be all right.

And he went to get the scan and I just had the worst two hours of my life.

Yeah, the big dogs out, you know, the big dogs out, and it's going to come back on to me because I.

Didn't because I allowed him to do it, do it and I wasn't down there.

And anyway, so I'm on the I'm on the freeway driving home.

I remember exactly where I was, and the doctor rings me and Peter mccuee and Peter's Peter's like I said, Pete just tot to the chase.

I'm thinking, this is going to be the worst ten seconds of my life.

He goes, there's nothing there, There's nothing there to see.

So ninety nine that lost the prelim there obviously drives Essendon.

The loss of a Grand final drives you know, Hawthorne to Great Heights fatter, say.

Ah, without well there was the prelium and the Grand Final.

Yeah, and probably especially because two and twelve and the boys talked about this all the time, is the best way Hawthorne played.

You know, that was the best in that whole period period outside of Grand Final Day fourteen fifteen pretty special days.

Outside of those two days, which are the best two days of the year that that team performed two that was the best year.

Like just a dominant, dominant team for a lot of the year.

Yeah, but yeah, look, we had a couple of themes that ran out.

We had Navy Seal theme during that year.

You know that.

Probably you know, the players got a little bit si by the end of it.

We've been going hard, we've been playing hard.

We didn't rest many players.

You know, we learned.

We learned a lot in fifteen twenty fifteen, the last eight games of the year, we lost two games.

Two of the players played on Grand Final Day.

We had two games lost to injury for eight weeks and we rested six players, so we had eight games and Sam Mitchell was sick once, so we had nine games lost from that twenty two in the last eight weeks.

And as I.

Said, only two of them were enforced that we got to manage the rest of them.

So we were always for top four, never never to be on top.

We would rather have managed the group and get them there in health and finished fourth and then win it from there.

Then worried there was no ego associate finishing on top, preferred not to you know what I mean, just what We've got to manage this and a lot of those years were really challenging, and that we weren't in the upper restelong until the end.

But you peaked at the right time, peak with availabilities.

With availability and there and so we got to know those players particularly well, you know, like and that many the Michael with d C Andrew Lambert, Yeah, you know myself and you know other you know Blue Boy.

You know.

It's great merriment and there's a heap and heap of those guys have.

Gone on the workman gone on to run another AFL programs, which has given me a lot of joy as well.

You know, the guys.

Peter Burge has done an amazing job.

He was Richmond their premierships and there aw Thorn worked he has worked under me in the early days.

We got to know them particularly well.

And the coach and coaches basically let us do our thing like they let us do our things.

They're not training, they're not training.

There's no he's not training.

And you never felt like she's been questioned what's going on.

I was just like, no, they know what to do, they'll do it.

They'll get the job done for us, you know like that, and and that sounds easy, but that's hard, really hard.

That's that's very and what I'm finding and seeing across the AFO weather very rare to get that.

So Cyril does his hamshing what rapidly to that inn at Fortune.

I remember being there at the VFL box Hill Final where you basically screwed over box Hill because he gets dragged off whether James Sisley played well.

I've got a vision of him playing well in that game.

But we think to ourselves, he can't play in a grand final.

How did he play a grand final?

We think the same thing.

You know, Look, that was the biggest risk that I've ever been involved in Round seven.

He does his hammy that year, then he comes back at round thirteen, then he redoes.

It around down at Tassy Gold Coast.

So he does it he hurts his hamsing he's running nine and a half meters a second.

The right is how fast he's running.

And this was the first one and he did that within twenty five meters, all right.

So he comes back.

He re injures it in round sixteen.

Six weeks later, he reinjured it in training, all right, and so we're.

Thinking he's done for the year.

Over that's round twenty two, all right, he injures his heavy small We go to clark We say, Cyril's redone it, he's out for the year.

He says, well, why is he out for the year?

He is, you know, you can't come back from that, and he's the damage in his hamstring was horrendous, like it was five grade ten in injury.

You're thinking, there's no way this guy's coming back.

All right, it's ten week injury.

So he said, I'll give it a couple of weeks rehab him, see how you go.

So he got a few weeks and then and then Clarko says to him, says to us, I really want Cyril to play.

I want to give it a go.

What are the risks?

What are you got to do?

And we say no, you're mad you know and no.

So then we said, all right, well, what are the conditions in which we might get away with it?

And we say he so, we know that ten in injuries can handle probably once they repaired enough, probably handled about eighty percent of top speed.

So we're saying, if he can play at eighty percent top speed, he's a chance.

Now I've never ever said that to anyone, but he's a chance.

I'd rather see her all at eighty than anyone else.

Yeah, absolutely capable.

So what we did is we trained him.

So we trained him to run at eighty percent.

So he went so so he ripped his hands to me.

We know he can go nine and a half meters a second, right, we prepare him to run between seven and a half and eight a second, all right, and we tell him you canno run.

Fast in that.

So we do run throughs.

He gets to feel it.

We did imagery around it, so he'd lie down and he would visualize himself running eighty percent, going for a ball, tackle, wrestle, don't chase.

So there's a lot of mine in it.

And his biggest session he did before he played the Boxel Grand Final was three point eight k's and he didn't run above seventy seven percent of his maxim before he plays that game, all right, So he plays sixty two minutes halftime, Clark I says to me, get him off.

He's playing next week.

I said, you can't play next week.

I said, he's at fifty percent, sixty percent.

He's got to at least get to seventy five hours.

So I said, Cyril, I need you go seventy five percent.

Yes, okay, And Cyril's unbelievable, like not me plays good, execute this.

That's tough to make self control.

So he goes out there, he gets to that as soon as he does it, get him off.

So sixty two minutes he runs seven point eight meters a second as his top speed.

So then we say to Clark, all right, well he jesus, this guy's underdone.

Not one session over three point aks and we're asking him to run twelve k's all right, and so that's that's that's one session in twelve weeks that he's done three point a case.

So in many ways it's the dumbest deciason, dumbest thing we've ever done.

But we had parameters and we stuck to it, and we said Cyril, you're not to sprint.

So anyway, he goes out there.

I don't know if you remember first play the day, ball goes in the air, try to take a screamer, and I'm thinking, and I must admit, I thought he's gone, he's done, because we didn't talk about the year.

We talked about being in there, about being in the year, about in the bubble.

He was running and then in there, so I thought, I actually thought we got away for it, and then I forgot about it and didn't think about it until late in the game.

Because he ran seven point a second in the Grand Final.

Wow, seventy's what he ran in it.

That was his top speed in the Grand Final, and yet no one would have ever noticed.

It's amazing.

And then says ten minutes in the last quarter because we're winning, Well, I said, can we get him off hereously we don't want to do Y's answering.

Then I go to Clark a week later and I said, we did his and it looked horrible and couldn't believe it, and Basic said, you're not going to see him till February because we need to.

So you're not going to see him A skills until February.

We need it and he's like, that's five months away.

It's just like, that's what's going to take.

We need to recondition him from the start.

That's what we did.

So we took him out and then he had his one of his best years.

Going to say, he ends up with a normalifth medal at the end of that year, doesn't he and.

The trust to take him out conditioning well put him into your program.

Clarko has been to helen back with the racism saga.

I don't if you want to say anything.

About it, but I'm when you were there, you saw the way he related to people.

You saw that he was tough but potentially fair.

What's your observation.

If anything, he only wanted the best for people.

He wanted to help people.

He wanted to help all those boys create lives for themselves, you know, make money, you know, create legacies, all those things.

And he was the same with everyone.

He was the same with everyone.

They had nothing to do with anything to do with that.

It was he was.

He was like that with Luke Codge, he was like that with jar Rd he was like that with me.

He was like that with Cyril.

I mean the way that Cyril was treated at the football I've never seen anyone else treated as well as Cyril.

I've never seen anyone else treated with as much respect as Cyril and his family.

Ever, the week before Cyril leaves, he tells me it's the happiest he's ever been at the football club because he's doing it.

He's done his knee, he's coming back.

Spent a lot of time with him, he said, it's great.

I can't wait to play Sean berg On.

I think I had three or four.

Played, so yeah, I mean, wow, she didn't act get out of control, you know, but just on all those people around.

I mean Jason Burt, Jason Burt was the best PDM.

You could not imagine a better person or a better PDM in the game.

And he did for so many people and living at his house and he was brilliant at his role.

You talk about, you know, footy clubs and need great people.

You can't have a weakness.

You can't have a weakness in your footy department.

You don't need to be brilliant in anything you do, but you can't have a weakness.

And that part of the footy club was being so well run Jason.

You know, Faigue's Vegas is fantastic for Clarko.

He was really good for the players.

You know, he was a really good you know, that balance worked really really well.

And then you had me and fig sort of working together and if we didn't, you know, if we were thinking this and we go together and get Dodgy involved, and so the you know, the dynamics just worked really really well.

You can't perform at the level that that group performed at without having a level of harmony, respect.

And sometimes there were tough conversations.

That's what high performance is and some people, some people don't like it.

Some people some people feel very uncomfortable in that space.

But that's the space to be great, want to be great.

That's the space you gotta be in.

Thanks for listening to part one of this two part episode with Andrew Russell.

Make sure you tune into episode two, where.

We delve deeper into Russell's time at the Blues.

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