There were some people at Geelong who wanted Pagan to come as coach.

Wow, and good to get rid of my Obama Thompson that year.

That's one hundred percent truth.

I'm John Ralph and I'm Glenn McFarlane.

Welcome to Sacked, a podcast that explores what really happens when the ax falls in the AFL world.

Will take you behind the scenes with some of the biggest names in football and find out how they found out their time was up and who pulled the trigger.

This podcast is made possible thanks to subscribers to The Herald Sun.

To find out more, go to Heroldsun dot com dot au or download the Herald Sun app at your app store.

We're five seasons into this podcast and the likes of Damian Drum AFL W coaches Daniel Harfor and Nathan Burke have joined us.

This year never gets less compelling, but we thought five seasons in would put some context around some of these sackings.

So when you want to do that, you go to the best one of footy's best, journo's best storytellers over marlveple decades of the Herald Sun and throw a w John Anderson Welcome.

To sacked, Ralphie, Macha and Beaver.

Well you've predated that, Bruce ever he killed a diehard that and more, a brilliant caller, three w as well, not quite the official security historian, keeper of the Flame, and maybe apprentice Beaver.

Great to have you with us, Ralphie, good to be here, Macca, and good to be here after thirty three years.

It's amazing.

Didn't I were going to say thirty three beers?

I thought thought he was going to say none of us officially sacked yet, or if we have been, we've rebounded from it.

So we thought would go through the ten bombshell AFL coaching sackings of the world near it if we get the time.

Absolutely, andano.

But you've seen so many over the journey.

You've been involved in some of them in terms of breaking them.

The one I wanted to ask you, and you've raised this as well as Dean Bailey in twenty eleven bizarre sacking.

What actually happened there?

I remember the great Trevor grand used to say, you see him and you see him out insterms of coaches.

Dean Bailey was It was ouldately very sad story, as we all know sure was that.

It was July thirty, round ninety.

In twenty eleven.

I rang Don mcclardy, who I think was the president elect at the time and was actually in the role because Jimmy Seins had got to sick and Don I've known for a long time.

We didn't speak a lot, but he said, look, I can tell you off the record that Dean Bailey will be safe right behind him, and Dune's a very trustworthy person, and that when he said, that's exactly how he felt.

So I wrote the story in the month on the Saturday morning.

A few hours later, Dannididi of packs Along wins by one hundred and eighty six points.

Has been a feast like we have never seen before.

Here had a.

Copy of the Last Supper for Melbourne.

Thirty seven goals eleven two thirty three the seven goals five forty seven to Long's highest ever score.

It's killed and their biggest ever win over Melbourne.

One text this Black's an idiot, to get rid of him and what with Transpotter.

He probably knows his story, Ralphie.

At the time, it was a bit involved, wasn't it.

Yeah, So I think Jimmy's talking about it in his book as well, and so there was a lot of discussion about Cameron Schwab and how safe he was, and so Don mclaudy was talking to a lot of those senior players bringing them in, and those sen your players love Dean Bailey, and so it almost looked like when they lost by hundred and eighty six points, it was a protest vote against Dean Bailey to the club thinking what do we do?

So by that Sunday afternoon then thinking we've got to do something, and so they go and sack Dean Bailey, a hugely popular figure, had them on the right track, a lot of young kids, and they think, well, we need we can't sack them both.

So in the end they give Cameron Schwab an extension.

It almost had like a six month clause, you know, so we'll give you some time to try and improve your station.

In the end, of course, he moved on.

Always remember David Schwartz, you know, it goes to the rooms, comes back from Melbourne before that game and he goes, I've got a good feeling about this one.

Six points and again.

Another one of those long line of Melbourne coaches who gets it in the neck you know when he had so much promise.

You know, look at Neil Bam, you look at Neil danaher.

I just kept on stuffing it up.

Two things from that particular weekend.

One of that game in a long game and the catsmen on won the flag.

Of course, hell of a side.

You remember where you were.

It was the golf course opposite Carraro or metroc On Stadium or people First Stadium.

Saints were playing the Suns that day, so everyone was huddled around the TV in the sports bar has just unfolded like a It was like a cricket score the way the Cats just kept kicking goals, and it was.

A slow moving train wreck.

I reckon though at the time I reckon the Demons were only a game and a half out of the eighth with about five games to go when that happened, So they put in the absolute shocker.

But it wasn't as if the season had been a complete disaster.

They were still technically still in the mix.

Sometimes it can be one game, can't it.

When you look at coaches, it could be one game.

After prison as well.

You know a lot of those cart and coaches, Robin Orth, go up, Kevin Swab had himself been involved in a sacking where he was Richmond.

I think he went around with a six pack of Yeah, who was the coach, Kevin Butler.

K exactly, it's good that cave.

He took that sacking really well, didn't he.

And never returned to that football club until Cameron Schwab moved on.

I think he said at the time he wanted everyone, yes.

Definitely, let's be a long time to build the bridge ross line and we might get the ross line as well.

As Nathan Burke told us, you guys, he was only coming back to Seculta when everyone involved in the drama, not quite a sacking was gone as well.

So talking of secular sackings in this few here, let's go why you've got a couple of in two thousand and one.

So we'll play some quotes from across the five seasons I've sacked and put some you know, some emotion about it, and then we'll have a chat.

Here is Grant Thomas in season two.

It's cool to a meeting at the Flower Drum with all the hierarchy at the time, and I knew there was an issue, and I just said, we'll listen it's around fifteen.

Let's just get through this year.

I had a good relationship with Blinding.

I think he respected me and I just thought that I could help him a lot in that area.

I was the last to find out, and that had nothing to do with it, but at the time it suited their course because you know, I mean to be perfectly faink.

There's week's mindless people, Bruce.

I know nothing.

What a fascinating chain of events.

So of course, as Nathan Burke told us, the delegation of Saints went north on the mercy mission.

They signed him at the Chinese restaurant, you know, escalating figures on the paper.

Napkin became outright scanlest the players didn't kick a footy all summer.

He didn't come down between two of those AFL games, won three of fifteen games.

So was it ever going to work with Malcolm White?

Well, Heinslitt says, No.

You go to those last couple of weekends and sort of being intimately involved.

It was again a slow moving train wreck which just sped up in those last.

Couple of weekends.

So firstly, there was the Friday night game against the Crows at Marvel, which I'm pretty sure was Nick Revoltz Daboo, and it was the return of Jason Cripps, who you know, suffered so many injuries, such a popular figure.

Kick the first goal of the game brought.

The house down about six strings up and about lost by ninety seven points.

I think I think Rui's first kick might have gone out in the fall as well.

But then the following week was the famous game against Brisbane at the gab Up, and I was up at that game, and I'm just trying to think, you know, protect the names of the guilty.

Certainly after that it was it was the first weekend I ever met Joe Revolt Nick's father and a lot of the parents were meant to meet Blighty for the first time, and he didn't turn up.

He certainly front didn't front well.

And I'm not sure the chain of events with the golf you know, down the Gold Coast and stuff like that.

But he just wasn't there.

He just wasn't there apart from getting there, you know, on game day and turning up to the team hotel a few hours before.

That's that's my understanding anyway.

So I think it was just enough was enough, and it was.

Very different wasn't he bidy and everything that he did?

People you speak to in football and we've walked back to a interview life.

He's probably the most interesting for me if I rang up someone now, Malcolm Blitch's probably number one.

I'm not friendly with him and I dislike Malcolm Bloodible.

I really enjoy listening to him speak.

He's also probably got the biggest ego I've been in football.

And I say that again not in a bad way.

You can this, yeah, hell, there's good people with good egos.

So for him to suffer being sacked which still absolutely eat away at it and happened to this, to this Malcolm and he was at North Melbourne as a playing coach in nineteen eighty one was it?

And Garry cable to responded eleven he.

Caught that, he caught that he was young and wasn't ready for I went back to South Australia, Woodville, West Turrans became clearly a good coats, was a genius at Gelong.

Genius didn't have the best side in any of those years, I don't think West Coast twice Betis and Hawthorne the other time.

And then obviously went to Adelaide and did what he did, so he thought he was above his football intelligence.

It was so far above who he was dealing with the people that employed him.

He couldn't relate to it when they said, I mean, I still don't reckon he's able to that part of him.

Was it a vanity project?

Like you wouldn't say he was too old, but maybe he wasn't ready to roll the sleeves up at that stage.

Well, when I read when I listened to a podcast called Sacked recently and I heard that he hadn't been dan to the club as you just said, Ralphie in two weeks.

That's extraordinary.

It is when you think about it, and it's not that long ago.

You know, a million bucks which at that stage.

And they seduced him too well, I mean the name looked great, but he was and he's never coached again, has he?

So he was probably done.

What do you make of Grant Thomas there as well?

That I didn't know.

I was the last to know.

That narrative was not going around at the time.

The narrative was that he.

Find that hard to believe given was at the time the late great Patrick Smith was writing those columns regarding you know, when Tom I was going to.

Answer the phone.

Yep, put himself through to himself in marketing and put himself through himself.

He was man of Patrick's favorite.

I had that is he football's most interesting man, Miguel Angel him and as of course the European Golf for the most interesting man in sport.

The drama of it as well, So the decision was one thing.

The sacking became a circus there.

So that famous yellow sweatshirt, you know, he's marching along outside of the rab and.

I think they might have held a press conference in the squash course.

I was one of the media that was.

Camping out outside his house.

You get told as a young cadet reporter, yeah, my first job at you go.

So he camped out.

We all camped out for about three days.

We're all playing cricket in the you know, it was a cul de sack.

Blugs were smashing, you know, pool shots over there, and his wife would throw the ball back over.

Eventually, I think on a Friday night he came out and delivered the statement there on his front doorstep, just to get people away.

So I think you're right now.

I don't think he's ever recovered from that.

You know, he nearly gets dropped for a Grand final, he comes out and plays well and they win a premiership.

But it's he's one of the blokes we haven't mad had to get on.

He's been elusive.

So yeah, anyone he said, he's got a wonderful voice and he's just an interesting person to be around.

Malcolm Blood and you talk about that ego, it's justifiable when you look at his CV.

Yeah, as a player and as a coach in two states as well.

He's one of only three to win both the McGarry and the brown low yep I believe, yeah, And so his ego is healthy and it deserves the boat.

The bombshell Mark Harvey and Ross Lyine.

Mark Harvey was definitely sacked.

Rossline was not that twenty eleven decision by Line to take up that massive paypacket at Freemantle which pushed Harvey out.

Here is Nathan Burke only a couple of weeks ago on sacked.

Everything wasn't rosy.

On the field, it was we were winning, but off the field it wasn't.

So we just wanted to make sure that we could get that under control first.

Whereas Russ's team probably thought, and hang on, we're winning recontract me and give me more power.

I still remember the board meeting that Michael Narrofold the CEO, and said, yeah, good news is we've agreed with Ross's manager.

Management that were but the phone kit ringing and it was like, oh, you better go and answer that.

He said, I've got some reporters ringing me.

So he went out in ten minutes.

I come back in after ten minutes he said, I think Ross's they're telling me he's gone to Fremantle.

So this is one of Footye's great ass covering exercises here.

So Ross said, you know, the club was leaking against me.

I had to leave.

I think the only innocent party here was Mark Harvey.

There Michael Nettafold, you know, said we made the right decision to hold off the things going on the board covering their ass as well.

Who stuffed this up the most, Bruce?

You know so much about Saint Kilda and was it the right decision for him to move on?

Well, at the time it wasn't, because Sin Kilda were dealing with Craig Kelly in good faith who just happened to be Mark Harvey's manager as well as Ross lines manager, and my understanding is that they had a release ready to announce a three year contract renewal.

Burkie's first point is very interesting in terms of that other elements of the club weren't happy with the setup and the disconnect between the football department and the rest of the club.

And that is one hundred percent correct.

And I've had discussions with this with players who disciples of Ross Lyne Milnie and Cozy and guys like Nikki Dell in a feisty debate about and they can sort of see it now.

That bubble that was created, the famous bubble, but it led to a real disconnect with the rest of the club, particularly two I see at the time.

I think statute of limitations, we can do.

So bloke called Anthony Moore, who's gone on to be CEO of Olympic Sports in that sense, he rang me on the way home from the club that night at about eleven o'clock and he's quote.

I remember he said, every money making element of the club is doing cartwheels.

But at the same time I remember speeding to Netta's in the forty eight hours afterwards and he said, it's probably going to take this club five years to recover from this.

But I think he meant as well, it wasn't just Ross leaving, but the disconnect because the sponsors and counteries and that they just could really get to the players, access to the players, which is sort of almost like the life blood of before.

Not to mention the media as well, like he hated the media and didn't he in that sense that.

Bubble we talked and came, Cameron worked it.

And he came and worked it.

It's a well worn sort of pathway.

I think kV he did it after being sacked and.

Deep se wounds with this one.

Yeah, Mark Harvey obviously with Michael nettlefold towards ross Line, and I'm speaking on belf of Michael, but that if he saw Russ line, that's not a pretty sit situation still now is it halves Michael with ross Line?

That is not good at all?

But the drama that the drama that night, I remember you know, sitting here making frantic calls but thinking what is going on here?

And we all knew that he was leaving and we weren't sure what was happening there.

Famously, Jared Watley called him absolutely deceitful, duplicitous and distasteful, and then we saw.

The free man words from Jared.

They were and I'd love it if Jered was even more forthcoming from that.

I think eventually he got into it, elevated with him a couple of years back, and they had something of an approachment there.

So it was almost like the unfiltered Jared, which I really love, like just tell us what you really think.

But that nightmaker in the in the rooms here, there's times where you're like, all over this story, I'm making calls and the sources of coming back to me.

That one was just like what is happening?

It was?

It was extraordinary, really, And as you say, you've got the Mark Harvey element too.

He's a much love figure in that sense, and we've tried to get him on Sacked again boys, and he that moment.

He still finds it very difficult to talk about that.

It's never happened, Mager.

You've never had a coach I fustrating his own no future for you, like it just does.

It with the same manager.

It's almost like it's almost like a Hollywood movie you could actually produce.

There so many angles to it as well.

When Ross got round to his players afterwards, and the famous story with Nick Reevelt coming out of out of surgery wakes up it still under the effects of the anesthetic and there's the coach sitting next to his bed and then telling him, by the way, I'm out.

Of here on heading west, and am I still.

Dreaming?

What he's going on?

Exactly?

The list?

Cliff so Berkey talks about the list.

Cliff, I had some amazing players, they had some older players.

Was he right to leave in the fact that, let's face it, he hasn't got a premiership to this day?

Was he right to leave?

Well, look, you know, I mean Ross has touched on us as well before.

Actually, when he ross two point ero, I remember swapping text with him when he came came back and he did say, you know, and I'm not saying it's easy to say now, he said he never wanted to leave.

Now, you're right.

The Kilda list at the time was it was on the precipice and you know the decade that followed.

He never wanted to leave.

Why did he?

Well, he's the one to organized his departure.

I speaking to behind, he would say that Frio came to him a couple of times he said no, and then he went to Craig Kelly and said, okay, is there interest out there?

I hear Melbourne's interested because he knew people like Paul Ruse Kelly was saying no to him.

And then he said he tried to get a contract negotiation going with Netlefold.

He clearly wanted more money.

He had a financial issue with a mining stock that had gone poorly, so he was desperate for cash to try and show up his family.

And he said the next day, all of a sudden, he had these reports in the paper Ross is greedy.

He felt he knew where that was coming from.

So he felt like his relationship was broken at that stage.

So that would be his defensive And he's made a really detailed defense on triple Mma, which is fascinating listening.

Yeah, and like Sekila, at the time, some certain people there thought that it was a bit of a cult of Ross's making.

You've spoken about that, Beaver in that sense as well.

Has anything changed the second time round?

I think that's the fascinating scenario.

Beaver, What are your thoughts there?

Well, he's still all powerful, but he is a much different coach.

Different.

Yeah, and he delegates more just even his coaching style.

Old people will say, oh the defeat, but just in terms of playing the kids, you can go back and once again it's if some butts and wires.

And wherefore as you look at the twenty ten Grand Final replay, not electing to bring fresh blood into the side and Jack Stephen and David Armine, whereas this time around now it's it's kids galore.

So see Wilson here in twenty ten.

A game that year, Well that's too good, it was.

Yeah, I guess you know they kept topping up, didn't they, bringing in the likes of Peaks the first one you think of obviously that ill faded dig it Andrew love it.

But yeah he uh, well, you know he didn't get a flag with free either, did he.

I mean spot, Yeah, he didn't.

He didn't get there.

And he has played more kids than people would say, and he would say, played a lot of kids at freemout and set them up for let's face it, not a premiership as well.

And I think that the fact he can rule with an iron fist and Bassett's got such faith in him, you know, I think that we all would have felt this is the year in which they would have topped up.

You miss a prem and miss a final series, and yet he's got such faith in his own position right back to the draft, back to the draft.

It might take longer, but as a security fan, am I writing saying you're happy for them to take a half step back to go forward one hundred.

Percent hundred percent.

And they've stuck fat to what they said two or three years ago.

They've gone to the draft now three or four years in a row.

I think it's going to be a lot different than twelve months time.

I don't think they're caring a lot about the draft next year.

But they've stock poled ahead of Tazzy coming in and been bold as well, taking there's been opportunities to take Victorian kids and they've taken high rated interstate kids.

Backed themselves that there's not going to be the go home factor Shawn Makers.

They been a Tazzy boy.

So yeah, but I think next year it's it's pushed the button on free ags.

Which one of you more hopeful or likely of getting in in Callahan, the g WS midfield star, Tom mcconing or Luke Davis.

Un you didn't throw in Frio's Brashaw.

I think they're taking the scattergun approach.

They're aiming at four or five, and they be happy to get happy, to get a color, to get a couple.

I mean, Callahan's obviously Marcus Windhager's best mate.

That's a that's a that's fact.

That's nice in there.

Yeah, Brashaw was a very young player under Ross and apparently like him a lot.

Yeah.

Dcane is verbally committed to Carton on a few occasions when asked about that.

So I'd see to canean staying where he is personally.

But did we have a bad year he's unhappy with where they're hitting?

Maybe he does, but I don't think he's gettable.

And you always had a great intel at the Carlton Foota Club.

I reckon for a long time there as well.

Mick molt House becomes in twenty thirteen, he becomes the longest serving most games as a coach, and not long after that he's sacked.

In twenty thirteen, tell us about your memories of that extraordinary day when we went.

My memories of Mica walking down what's the street is it outside in Parkville?

Outside Icon Park Real Parade?

Did he not used to walk everywhere at me because he still because walk.

He strode through and there has been been interviewed and he was like a man.

Marie Antoinette was taken by horse and wagon to the gallows in Parry back of the late seventeen hundreds.

But Mick was he was heading to the girl and he knew what was happening.

He was going to push that.

I don't think he was a huge rap for the president of the Fair Point.

I think I'm trying to think it was the president.

So let's have it.

Listen to what Mick said to us on sacked a couple of years ago.

You lose your president, you and you and your CEO, and I thought's fall straight away.

You're on borrow time because you're not their choice.

It's the animal Kingdom revisited.

I mean, you know the big line.

He walks in and what's the first thing he does.

He gets rid of all the pups or the kittens.

So at the end of the day, that's I had no doubt that I knew where I wanted to go, and the club seem to think that they were going in another direction.

So that was Mark Leagudischet, who was the cart and president.

He made some comments about you know, so just.

So went from sticks and Swanny to Mark Ledu to say and Stephen Tree.

So that was supportive the people who put him in.

But yeah, Swanny was very involved.

Obviously he'd worked with Mick at Collingwood and Mick had been there when Brett Ratton got sacked after the trip to Queensland.

Was it not again?

Yeah?

And it keeps happening, isn't it.

Yeah?

And so Mick lived by a die.

Body understands out all works and I don't think he was ever going to work at Carlton looking back, and just for whatever reason, the fit didn't seem right.

Did he take it for the right reasons do you think?

Or was there an element of stuff this spite?

Yeah?

Collingwood?

Yeah, Well he felt that he had more coaching left in him.

Well that's pretty pretty fair assumption in his last two years of Collingwood premiership and Grant far So, I think Mick's got a fair right to say that, is he not?

Coaches have been given the flicker after that works?

No one how many weeks after he broke the record was the sacking.

It was only like a.

They won one of their games.

It was thick they might have they might have broke the record in round one or two against it against Collingwood.

So yeah, he said, as he en that scn slot, as you said that more the night before in the morning of board sack coaches when they crack under pressure.

He was walking through the park.

He knew he was going to be sacked.

Robbo and Mick Warner were in Today's Language live tweat in the event.

They obviously had a great mole in there.

It was, you know, every ten minutes, what's happening?

What rooms he in?

It was fascinating viewing.

Yeah, he basically said that the some on the List team wanted to get rid of Gibbs, and Murphy said that he rived at the club and the players he wanted to get rid of or actually contracted long term.

You're right, these guys who are coaching greats and they lose it or whatever happened so quickly.

I suppose it's just the nature of coaching.

You go in with your methodology.

If it doesn't work, it can just foot collapse in a hate beaver.

Yeah, no doubt about it.

So I was slightly distracted because I was thinking around that story.

There's a really good trivia question.

Where was Mick's last victory.

It's a very good question.

It wasn't even in Australia, booting the Saints in Wellington.

What it was wasn't even in Australia.

Was coming from four goals down as well, and I reckon it was.

It might have been the like the coming out game for for crips as well.

I'm pretty sure who.

Mick now would claim, as you know, he was the one that I wanted and that maybe some would say that wasn't the case, but he always claims him.

How much do you miss him as a coach?

Guys, the Theater of the Jousting Mark Stevens.

Steve Steve A very Mick.

I loved t J, Tony Jones, very Mick.

I loved Robbo, very Mick.

I loved I'm trying to I had a couple of Thik was a pretty fearsome foe, but he eye bought you tell.

Us what he was like in the eighties and like he was when he's at the Bulldogs, how brutal was.

I only went and interviewed Mick him out only eighty three he was working for is in the public service.

Maybe the board of works up in Spring Street.

I was working on the old Heralds building in Flinders Lane.

Went up and look he was fine.

He was really well light at the Tigers as a player, really well like he was the starter of pranks around the club.

He's a bloke.

He might get the possum and chuck it in someone's car.

Whatever.

He was a lot of fun and then became a coach and then he was good Western Wood Dogs.

I found him no problems at all, and I was working there's a you know, the games and all the rest of it.

Then he went to Perth and he turned it all into it we hate you, where he against the rest of the world.

And that's where he really changed.

Darryl Tims, what can you tell us about incident organizing type of wavely?

After a final.

Waverly?

What happened?

For those that don't know, Uh, Darryl, I begon he Mike had a girl Jeff Poulter at one game and just Polts couldn't deal with it because Jeff doesn't He said, what are you doing there?

Standing like a speed take at a wedding?

Polter or something like that.

I'm sure that was it.

Yeah, and that way Pulse was very hurt by and soft soul at Jeffrey.

Anyway, Then the Darrell was I think was later that year, and I wasn't I've been at that game.

I followed the player out to try and interview someone for whatever reason, much to Scottie Palmer's chagrin, because he had to get the quotes for punchlines that night.

But after he gained his hair forty times before tell uh A, Mick basically confronted Jimsy.

It was he didn't throw a punch, but had Jimsy been a more aggressive bag, but Mick had his henchmen around him, would have been Jimmy Jepp would have been definitely would have been.

He wasn't a fighter, Tim, Tim would have more of a guard and and poor old Darrell was was one out the other journals didn't go to help him, which was disappointing.

Had that I reckon, I could have went on, I really do.

That was a chance where he could have sent a broad between turnos and for the officials, and Mick would have gone.

Don't worry about that.

I saw at first hand with Poults that nine a ninety final series where I had to keep not only keep coming back to Melbourne, keep playing at Wavely.

They did never get to play for him.

So the drawer draws Collingwood famous draw.

YEP, come back the following week, get belted, come back the following week, beat Melbourne, come back the following week plays.

And it's a brutal effort to get through with.

So I'm a wet behind the years.

That's in my early stages, still on the Herald Sports desk into my third third season.

And Poults has the idea.

Right, they used to stay at the Royal Parade Motoring right opposite Princess Park and they trained at Carlton in like that arrive I think on the Thursday, maybe the Friday.

Don't have a run anyway, So Paul says, come with me, but if we're going out to the Royal Parade Motoring and so we just hung around in the lobby and Mick came down and he sort of looked across, and then you know, Poults started moving towards him and like one of the first things Mick looked at me and he said, how are you?

Where are you from East Preston exactly speaking with the late John Weather.

Are you from he said, Baby said kill All.

That's right.

Yeah.

But so then I was sort of what I was like the third wheel and this I think I asked maybe one question out of about five of them, and he was just so short and sharp.

The bristling mustache clipped clipton his delivery.

So Mix provided great drama.

The collow succession plan that was always doomed to fail.

Mick spoke to us about that in season one.

So I don't want you in the box, and don't you talk to the coaches on the bench.

Don't she talk to the coaches.

It's pretty hard not talking to the coaches when you're a con director of coaching.

So I thought, well, he doesn't want a con director of coaching.

So so you're staying, you know, and you know I've kept the amended job description.

Well, I would have been a meet and greet perst.

So there's Mick Multouse who probably made it really hard for Nathan Buckley in the early years of that succession plan, and then clearly Mick was going to have it done to him in reverse.

Eddie mcguie maintains when the deal was struck, of course, a couple of years and then he takes over as director of coaching.

Everyone was on board and he would say that it actually that riggered.

The was applied actually forced mc malthouse to pull out all stops to win the premiership.

And was it ever going to work?

Not with those but not with mixed personality.

He's never going to be the second banana.

And I think it was fanciful to think that he would accept that role as director of coaching for Eddie.

I understand what Eddie was doing.

He was trying to protect Mick Malthouse, the legend that is Nick Moldhouse, that brand.

He was desperate to do that and that was unwell at that stage.

That hard issues when he says unwell.

Ralphie understands he had a trial fibrillation which is treatable and he may and he went into hospital during the year, which very few people know, and obviously Edi knew that.

I mean a Smellbourne.

I reckon he might have got Mick has told me this.

I think I was in the network or something like that and might have had a procedure to put his art back in the rhythm.

I'm sure that's what it was.

He wasn't going to prevent him from coaching, because he went on to coach Carlton after that.

I don't think it was the right move.

At the time.

There was a desperation to make Nathan Buckley coach of Collin and he was loved Nathan Buckley as Colling with people obviously do.

And he was spooked.

Wasn't Heed Melbourne's primarily where had seen that in recent years we had following.

Been to cut his teeth.

It was like Tony Shaw at Collie Wood.

Surey now says he should have gone to Carlton had the opportunity gone somewhere else where was was Nathan Buckley coach underage?

Yeah?

He was?

And then North Melbourne jumped in and basically offered him the job.

And spoke to say he became a good coach.

I mean he's remembered as a bloker.

Didn't win a premiership.

Well he's five points or whatever whin he had premiership.

So to me, that's that's unfair Nathan Buckley.

But I don't think it was.

Eddie would disagree with this because that's I don't think what Beaver where do you say.

Yeah, well, you think of succession plans generally unless your name is Paul Ruse.

It hasn't worked, does it.

I mean the only couple that have really worked has been Ruised to Longmire in Sydney, and.

You could say to him to Goodwin as well as well.

But even that relationship is not amazing.

There you know good when sort of when Rousy chipped him good when chipped back pretty hard.

And I don't think they're great mates, even though the succession plan resolved in the flag.

Yeah, it's but I agree with the endo in terms of the personalities involved.

It was never it was never going to work.

It's quite I do not a lot, but I do a few after dinner speaking engagements with Mick, with Q and AS and he's he's wonderful company and like he admits himself, he has mellowed so much now working in the media now obviously with the with the A, B C and the number of stories because when he started coaching, he's one of the few players there was no break.

He played senior footy for Richmond in eighty three and then he was coaching travel when you think about it now in eighty four and then didn't have a break between any of those.

Pretty smart by foot scrape to identify when you.

Think about that, really pushed him up really well.

I think Mishane was someone who had some influence there and he fell out.

And I went twenty even that last year.

Obviously, Gelong beat Collingwood every time they played them that year.

So in hindsight you look back and say, Geelong we clearly the better side.

But how much do you think that animosity behind the scenes.

Buckley molt House actually had on Collingwood as team.

But he sure suspended that year.

It was Yeah, Alan Dadak had an incident that.

There was a few little issues.

Yeah, Nick went on the Footy Show famously in audience and some would view that interview has not been helpful.

Was on the best side that year, I mak.

I went to the Grand Final.

I breicked for Geelong and I wasn't that sure that Gelong was going to win.

They're right in the game calling and even at three quarter time.

I often said the first half that's about the best half of the best first half of a Grand Final.

I reckon of Ever, there was a famous moment when Harry Taylor, who's legendary Gelong player now couldn't handle Travis Cloak and the most underrated player in Geelong's history.

Went on to him called Tom Lonegan and coiled Travis Cloke's influence and that did change the game.

Tom Hawks come into the game after.

Second positionally as well and probably should have made that changes.

What was it read that was on on one leg?

He had a tarrent type.

I mean one of the very few times and I'm sure make wone acknowledge this, but where a positional change might have won on the Grand Final?

Yeah, yeah, that's if that's all the rest of it is.

I think by that stage the Cats were probably running over the top and Jimmy Stevie Johnson and Jimmy Bartelling, those guys were just flying.

Would have one more flags if you started Collingwood there if they never made that decision.

He's greatest achievement to me, Ralphie is taking Collingwood to the two thousand and two Grand Final and being how far off maker.

Nine points at the end.

They got a goal late, so Rocker kicks the goal maybe.

Puts them in the lead.

If they kicked the goal of the nine in the market.

I'm not going to embarrass thos Collingwood players and read out the list, but if you read them matter, So compare them to the Brisbane players and the champions.

Brisbane had maybe eight or nine champions of the game.

Collywood had one.

Yeah, when you look at it even and you go back and look at the two thousand and three team which actually beat Brisbane in a qualifying final.

Great catching.

Those players believed in him, So he had that photo of the two thousand and two side on his desk almost to his last day because he loved them so much.

I can tell you a story that you may not have heard about.

I think it was maybe two thousand and three.

A gripp of players used to go out.

There's a footballer caller who's now involved in Channel seven who had a farm out near Romsey gisband Way called Brian Taylor and Leon Davis was certainly one of them.

And I'd love to go to try and say, catch some kangaroos with me.

With me where his farm was, there was a pretty steep hill and in a year and it was a thing a bit wet, you didn't have great breaks on it.

And they're sitting in the back of the yute with their catching devices.

Who was the Collingwood players?

Was it Steinford Carl Steinford, did he get did he injury his hamstring?

That fan of final series?

Is that right?

I think he may will have injured jumping out of that.

That's the story they didn't follow through with another time when you get yeah, exactly.

Whereas he in the modern era as well in terms of coaches, like you know, he could have won five six, he could have won another at West Coast.

He hasn't got as many, you know he's any three, but he's he's right up there.

What's Kevin Sheety's view?

If you win as a coach, you're in a flag.

It'll be ten years.

You've done a great job.

Now that might be sheets protecting his own brand a little bit when we'll talk about sheets.

Coming very soon.

He won four in twenty twenty seven years.

Well, that to me is it's pretty good in it.

I thought he's right up there, not just for longevity, but and other years when he took sides to finals as well, not necessarily to grand finals.

But I certainly concur with that two o three and they were actually started favorites in the three Grand final.

Because it's quite refical when you think about it now, isn't it The qualifying final victory died.

I kicked a couple of amazing goals and then how banged up the lines were with the record number.

Of and the Swan killing the week before, and the Swans were I think at the welln't what have been at Stadium Australia.

I called that game for footy and they were in front of the close quarter.

It was all Sydney.

They were running all over the top of Martin Pike went berserk.

In the last quarter was.

A bouncing, bouncing ball that just trickled over the line.

Yeah, one of those goals in the last quarter.

I think winning forty four points I did I reckon we're at three quarter time.

You would have had your money, good money and bad on the swanis.

Kevin Shedy so sacked by in two thousand and seven.

Here was Kevin Shedy in one of our very first sacked episodes.

The period of essen and starting to wobble was when we sacked the four players Carousel and Bloomfield.

Heffnon and.

So that was a real I mean, if I had my time again, I probably would have said see it later.

But it was a very tumultuous time for us.

It's disgraceful.

I'll probably smile if you're talking about my LOWESTI that's your lowest.

And here is Peter Jackson, the club chief executive, on the decision that was made.

That decision was made midway through the year, as I recall it, and there was there was a decision made, rightly or wrongly to announce.

It six weeks before the end of the season.

Yes, it's going to be painful for six weeks, but you owe it more to the guy to do it that way than just to say you hide behind it.

And you won't hide anyway because someone will leak it.

But you know that in those sort of conversations, everyone presumed it's going to stay confidential.

And you would have just I just think that would have been wrong and weak.

So I remember ghosting Sheds that season, you know, and you know the first interview, the big telell interview in March, and he was just he was evasive.

And it turned out he and Petter Jackson at a community camp but had that chat under the tree, and I think Jacko basically intimated to him at that stage that's what would happen, and of course it did as well.

Where is this sit in history, given he is a titan of football.

The club has been stuffed ever since.

Yep, that's a really good point.

What did you say two thousand and seven?

Yeah, that's right.

Where's it sit in history?

At the time, I was on a beach in Noosa, but Beaver said before he knows where he was with the Geelong Melbourne game and my brother who's a Besson supporter, older brother and me, and he was I think he was in tears.

He said this, I can't believe this is that they can't do this.

There was a deep level of passion, wasn't it for sheets and more supporters.

Supporters were four than against Kevin Shedy this day who replaced Matt Matthew?

Look what the club has and aemi finals have they won?

Seen?

Zero?

Okay, so that it wasn't the right decision.

If someone had said to you that stage in the next however many years, Esida is not going to win the final, you'd say this guy's crazy.

One.

Dame Kevin Sheedy had a remarkable ability to reinvent himself as any coach has met.

Mick Moldhouse the same has done that over that period of time.

You have to be able to do that and said he was the eternal optimist.

So they does the game by ten goals and he was already till about next week.

He never went in and absolutely cooked the players.

Not his go at all.

I think he's a brilliant coach.

Kevin Shedy and maybe too towards the end he was starting to take his eye off the ball a little bit.

That that's what you he.

They well had finished thirteenth and fifteenth in the two seasons prior.

But he's the only living Essendon coach to coach winning final, isn't he.

That's correct, You have to go back to absolute eight.

Clark.

Yeah, absolutely, he's only living, which is remarkable when you think about it.

Interesting as well, it's amazing.

Well it isn't actually that amazing because he coached for twenty seven years.

But the carousela bloomfield heffing an issue.

He'd ridden out a similar storm twenty years earlier.

He offensive with the sacking of Bradbury and Clark explain, Yeah, so Peter Bradbury and Steve Carey both really popular, heart and soul, heart and soul players, premiership players, rugged, both sort of rugged half backs.

Reorganizing the end of season trip each year.

Yeah, bump into him at the Garrett great Man and I reckon Peter Bradbury actually used to work at the Weekly Times.

I reckon he was he was a print.

Yeah, And virtually they had to go to get Jeff Rains and Mike Richardson in, didn't they.

And they ill fated short stays in nine and eighty six, and.

Then I've gone by the end of the season.

Both gone by the end of the season, both to the Brisbane Bears.

And then of course they they had what about three down years eighty six eighty They went out in eighty six in week won the famous elimination final against Fitzroy.

Didn't play finals in eighty seven, back in back.

In head injuries, Tim Watson Paul Van were.

In the first three weeks of eighty six, didn't they?

Yeah, yeah, Ruffie, is it right that he called you in the morning that he was sacked?

He did that.

You know, you have the ones that got away.

This wasn't really the one that got away, because you know he caught me up really early seven.

You should get the Windy Hill.

It's kind of happened.

And there was no Twitter and maybe like there was a radio station you could have called into, but I wasn't doing anything.

There was no online, so I was like, I'll just roll out there.

So I was just sitting in the back row with this press conference with his his longtime secretary Jenet would you know, thousands of players there and him, you know, still pretty upset about it all.

And then we had the remarkable six weeks where they surged into finals contention.

Was there that game when you know, in that last contest heard was in the middle Scotty Lucas kicked I think seven.

They are in live and everyone talked about this, you know, remarkable farewell tour.

But it was almost a perfect way for him to go out, you know, still living in.

Brady Lucas seven in a quarter, seven in a quarter.

Yes.

And all I did, of course, was fuel the feeling from Essendon fans that we've done the right thing here.

So when that Richardson range think it was happening with Gary and Bradbury wrapped mcg after match and the grad Howard Lee was there and I was part of the interview in and he said, Kevin, do you think you made the right call getting rid of these two blakes?

Keve m said, next question, and how I said, our next question is do you think you made?

And went off.

He had about four guys.

Kevin said, just a word of advice, Sunny.

He said, I'm a plumber from Berran.

He's not going to win well.

And I said, I think how it was time to pat?

What was it like?

What was it like?

You know?

And I was lucky enough to go to quite a few sheets press conferences, as we all was.

He was normally pretty.

He would help young journos.

The coach I found the hardest was Allen James.

He gave you very little.

Status other than them.

There you go fellers.

That David Parking was scary, scary, Yeah, remember the event, the term the fifth quarter.

Yeah, Juggie Levan would have been sticking and was confrontational.

Princess park with Peter Somonovitch, who was the chief writer of The Great Sweet Sweet, asking him a question, and David looked at him and said, look better with someone with your limited intelligence and understanding of our card, I wouldn't expect anymore from you.

Next question, Uh, put down.

I think the club got pissed off with sheety ink, so I had him to write the column and he'd be at the Hilton there and he'd have all manner of people coming in and lurks and perks, and he'd always be thinking about the next book or the next Cashi.

Second office exactly for him, because it was, you know, we're going to get the club Sandwich.

He'd have a virtual office around the corner, so he had his privacy, never had to pay for an office.

But he did a lot of speaking engagements he might not be at the club, and so I think when the club looked at it at that stage, you're like, is he full on at this football club?

In retrospect now they go, we'll take all the bullshit because he was just a great coach and you know, you guys live through it.

Probably three or four times he nearly got sacked.

The one swinging vote help him out, so they're going to get him in the end.

But I mean, you look at the catastrophe since it was it was a bad decision.

In hindsight, it's not quite normal Smith.

But when you look at it, it's it didn't necessarily damn a footy club as the way the Norm Smith did, but it's it's pretty significant, isn't it.

When you look at.

It not being disparaging to Matthew Knight's but was he ready to be a senior coach.

He had a fraught relationship almost immediately with Matthew Lloyd or know, his captain.

That didn't end well and then it's just been a yeah.

Sessional calamity since then.

And the unanswerable question is that Kevin Sheedy haard rat cunning, But you know, would he have put up with whatever the essen and saga was as well?

So that's something we'll never.

Know, Robie.

One of the more extraordinary press briefings I've ever been to was when Hawthorne called us out to go to an Alistair Clarkson Sam Mitchell briefing ahead of the succession plan, and his is Jeff Kennett, talking a little bit about what was going in those times.

Yes, it did blow up in one sense, but it wasn't our fault.

We weren't going to discuss this contract till the end of the year.

That was working well, and all of a sudden he came to us and he said we better talk about my contract.

So out of respect for him, we talked about the contract and the board decided took into account all things going on.

He was due to coach another year, which would have been this year, and have we reappointed him, then I think he would have completed eighteen years.

It would have been a three or five years, so that would have been twenty one or twenty two years as a coach, and given other things that were happening, that was not a managerial correct decision and so therefore we had to inform him as we did, but we taught it through and we thought, well, he's on contact for twenty two.

We want to keep him.

We'd like Sam to take over.

But the more we saw of him, the more we were convinced that he certainly has the know how, he certainly has the value system that the club would want.

He is like Clarko in many ways that he has very definite views and when he presented to us in terms of how he is going to play the game, it was very different from Clarko's at the time, so we thought, all right, Clarko, continue keep working together.

Sam continued to think, and then Clarko, having accepted that, changed his mind.

We then had to respond to that.

So it felt like Jeff just totally misread the mood because Clarkson and Mitchell coach and play together.

He brought him back from West Coast.

The deals broken in a heartbeat.

You know, it was a total surprise when you were called out there a lot of those things, a lot of the central tenets of that deal.

The way what was that daily So we.

All were outside the old superbox area at Waverley they had then we get caught up, called up into that and we're thinking this is either a contract extension for clark over.

Then we're told all of a sudden, Sam Mitchell's going to be there.

This could be a handover.

Clearly Clarko wants to do something else, and that was what was in our minds as we walked in the door.

As soon as you walked in your door, you could feel the tension in there.

There's all you know, back in the old days, and there used to be a bit of tension in super boxes, but they were different.

This is the old Waverley Superbox and.

Jef Kennet's in the middle, and you've got Sam on one side and you've got Clarko on the other.

And the moment you look at Clarko's face, you know something's not right.

You know that, and through the entire Jeff Kennett discussion.

There, Clark's pulling faces and he's not happy, and he's clearly twitching, and Sam's got the cheshier cat grin on his face.

This was clearly from that moment Ralphie an issue that Jeff was going to have to deal with, and we didn't realize how quickly was going to blow up in their faces Ando did we.

That's Buckley Mouldouse.

It was in terms of personnel, it felt like with Mitchell and Clarkson got too incredibly strong.

They're never going to work Clark effectively.

Already Sack Mitchell.

I know he brought him back, but I mean because that residual tension, that.

History probably says that the move, it took too long to make the move they should have.

I mean, for two years they topped up, believe it, didn't know what player was.

So was that around ritime Mitchell, Yeah, and tried to prolong the success that's under Clark, where they would have been better to strip it back and again, but that's easy.

I was going to ask that question, does anyone in the room think it wasn't the right time for clark O to move on the way it was handled.

Was was not great.

But I think everyone thought that his time at Hawthorne had to come to an end, and he wrung every bit out of the face washer.

But it's easy to say that.

I think you're right, but at that stage that Sam Mitchell was totally untried.

Yeah, he'd done the box Heil stuff.

We've heard a lot of great things about him.

We'd had the succession plan with Collingwood, were a bit uneasy about that.

I think the real mistake here was that the working relationships were so bad.

So Justin Reeves and Kennett didn't get on, Sorry and Clark I didn't get on.

Kennett and Clark I didn't get on, And so he should have just come up to them and said, all right, I don't love this deal, pay me my money, paid me my contract for next year, and I'll get done of here.

And yet no one was able to have that discussion.

And so obviously we saw the Hawthorne racism saga.

It might have been a damage and poisonous relationship there.

But Carra got it right.

Caro said, of course, when this deal was broken, it's not going to happen.

She got great leaks from people who I would say, were close to him, everyone mocked her.

There's a Tainey's legacy at that football club, guys.

Given, I know it's complicated by the Hawthorne racism saga, but you know, I don't think the club and Clark even now.

But on the record book, he's still got four premierships.

Yeah, that's never going to change.

Like Steve Smith still made all those rounds between fourteen and twenty.

That's never But you kind of raise that even Steve Smith's legacy may be somewhat slightly tarnished at present to a degree.

Certainly artists hasn't.

But if the record says that, and that's what Clark's got too.

About Sam Mitchell and we're all accepting what a great coach he's become based on a fairly small sample this year, I'm not good and Sam would know that.

He'd be the first to say absolutely, we're just assuming Hawthorne are going to be in the eight next year, not just in the eighth, but a chance to win the premiership with Brass coming in and Battle coming in whatever, and the natural development for the players.

It's been still got a long way to go and Clark, I would be well.

Aware of that too, Danny Frawling.

He's a fascinating character.

And you know, obviously we pay tribute to Danny who's passed away.

The sacking in two thousand and one.

Here is the great Danny Frawley was good.

It was a good sort of soothing nine weeks because.

I sort of knew who was with me and who was against me in an inadvertently way, because human nature, you will always blame the coach and rightly say the coach gets paid the big bucks.

But it was great for me to see that who was sort of right still with me and it wasn't.

And I still speak to the people that sort of took two steps back, But I really admire the guys that really stuck by me because of everything and gee, you know you're backing a loser.

It came through a couple of channels, would be okay, of players.

Sat in the back of the you're kidding and I said, guys, that's not happening.

So there four and nine.

He coached me into a prelim the year before.

Of course four and night when they sack him, he used to dip his head into the portfolio bay to feel alive.

In those final weeks and remarkably he coached on and you know, not with Terry Wallace sitting in the back of the box.

It makes me so sad to hear his voice, just kidding how beloved he was and he's not with us.

Well, Beaver, probably well not probably you're in better than any of us.

So what's it do for you?

Yeah, to hear his voice here.

Just the last ever text message that we swapped, it was about a gig that he couldn't actually do and he finished it with a love heart which was to do with a se kilta gig, but just just a beautiful man.

I remember, you know, you go back a generation before that.

Like the Saturday night after Trevor Ka passed away, I went round to his place for dinner to help him write his eulogy for Barks's funeral the following Tuesday.

And that weekend and we're getting off the track was extraordinary with you know, Barks passing away on the Friday morning.

Porter happened on the Sunday halftime at the game where released barkss Pigeons, and that before the game out of Waverley against Footscray And yeah, so Spud is even hearing that quote and like he's having a chuckle at the end of it.

And you speak to some of.

The players that that that played under him and even when he knew he was under the cosh, like he come in with holding a bike pump above his head the first time he did that.

What am I?

Boys?

What am I?

I'm under the pump?

Who was Danny Froyle?

If people are listening to this podcast, it was just like tell us about Danny.

Well, he was what what you saw is what you got.

He was just a wholesome It sounds hackneyed, I know it was just a wholesome country land And when I say very basic.

That's not being derogatory.

He was you know, he was big on loyalty and camaraderie and you know, like a it was a unifying figure like it was quite when he wasn't exactly a sacking because Barks agreed to it.

But like Danny Foyley was appointed captain of Sint Kilda at a very young age and Trevor Barker still played on for another three years at sin Kilda.

Barks finished up in eighty six as captain, played to the end of eighty nine, so Spud.

It was when when the dock came in for eighty seven and he installed Spudder's as captain in in eighty seven.

So that's how someone as great as Darryl Baldock, even in his advanced years, viewed the natural leadership that Spud had.

Fear to say, maybe we've spoken here about coaches who become bitter after their sacking, which is a very natural human reaction.

Dan he fruly probably stood out for someone who didn't become bitter.

That's my memory of other coaches coach exactly the Coaches Association.

You believe now when you think that Richmond not only appointed Terry Wallace, but there were suggestions that that Terry would go into the box for the last few rounds.

Coach who suggests is that like one of the more bizarre things you've ever embarrassed?

What was Trevor Barker like, he's coaching the VFA, Yeah, well sort of coach?

Might he have been given the magnetism that he had?

I think it changed the history of the sin Kilda Football Club.

Even Stan I think admits that he was going to be a magnificent coach.

He coached two VFA premierships, the Zebras ninety two and ninety four.

He came back to Sint Kilda in ninety five as the reserves coach, took basically a bunch of kids into the into the finals.

They went out in the first week and he was look he had all the makings of a magnificent coach, and then he still coached right up and well, I'm still currently writing the longest, slowest moving piece of literature in Australian publishing history, trying to write Bucks's biography.

But yeah, I know, I know.

If he's manager Jeff Joseph is listening, he'd be grinding his teeth because he's always on my case about getting moving with it.

But yeah, I think he would have.

He would have coached and killed her for a long time and I would have been staggered if he hadn't have been able to coach my beloveds to to a premiership.

So the magnetism that yeah, and it.

Was he was he was there was for the way that you looked at him as the as the part.

I mean, it's a golden headed boy, yeah, the goldenhead boo.

But there was a lot of substance to him and it's even Probably the best analogy is you speak to any of the guys that played with him or against him, Like we always focus on the amazing high marks.

You asked so many guys that played against him, so he is the best tackler we ever played against, and so the little things which often got glossed over because of just you know, it was a highlight real week in weekend.

And and Kilda wasn't on the TV very often when he was when he was playing, but he just had this beautiful nature about him.

No one you could never you could never get angry with him.

I was no reason to get angry with him.

But you never wanted to disappoint him.

You just you never wanted to.

Disappoint as a young journal coming through and being sent out to a game.

And so the nineteen ninety season he was doing work.

I think I imployed him.

He was going to say for the Sunday Herald, so we would sit in the press box and he was the best company.

So what what did you saw insight into?

Yeah, I remember speaking to what I was beeB.

Yeah, been a few parties with Barks the rest of it, and I knew what he'd done with seculta with the money.

He agreed to accept whatever it was and the dollar either twenty five cents or two cents if he asked players to do things.

That was all was in his DNA in his background.

I just he had a deep understanding of the game and he was so dedicated to becoming a coage.

So I said, would you like to write an analysis each week for the Sunday Herald.

About four years later he did one of those pen picture things where people say your favorite for best movie, biggest influence on career, in their life, for anything, and he said, giving me the chance to work in the media when I was at a pretty low.

Ab twenty fourteen, guys, Brendan McCartney is sacked as the Western Bulldogs coach.

We had him on Sacked podcast here and here's what he had to say about that incredible time.

There was an impatient side that which probably led me to ah dive into areas that I shouldn't have because you could see that there may be a potential roadblock hindrance to where we wanted to go.

Got pretty protective and defensive of what I believed in and what I stood for.

So you think it in areas you shouldn't have, or you just became more insular.

Probably.

Spoke up about them more than I probably should have, just.

Said, look, can we do something about that, and then let it go instead of you.

And it was the wrong to do, but it was coming from a place that was what was best for the club and the players.

You know, in my heart of heart, I thought this is going to help.

So the Dogs seemed to be in a real sweet spot.

Then the space of a few months they lose their coach, their skipper, and Ryan Griffin.

Then they secure Tom Board in that trade.

So I've gone in three seasons under McCartney five wins, eight wins and seven wins, but they lose five of the last six in his final season three.

By ninety points we're writing stories.

The jungle drums were there.

No one could really stand it up.

So then Ryan Griffin requests the trade.

Peter Gordon asked McCartney, can you get through that setback?

He says he hopes he can, but he's not sure.

So Gordon and.

Canvases the players.

Some love him, some are very much off him.

He's sacked three days later.

He put the building blocks in place for that twenty sixteen flag.

But as he said to us, you know, I was really blunt about some of my players.

The twenty seven points down against the bottom side in Brisbane.

I told him there for it was unacceptable and there was a level of selfishness.

I think he probably say he was just too honest to too many players, and I think he probably lost too many players.

He was all about contested ball and still is.

So he's coaching Port Melbourne next year.

They're about to find out what cracking cracking boys, and that's what he taught some of those players.

Liberatory was already like that to a degree, but after that twenty sixteen there were players who paid credit to him.

I wonder he was a brilliant development coach with Geelong and Essendon and one development coach of the year one of those two clubs.

Players at Gelong in that great period of their still talking about.

Yeah, was he the overall package right to be a senior coach?

I don't know That's would be unfair of me to say that it wasn't.

But I think there were parts of Brenda that he would change now if he had that opportunity over again.

I would have thought he wasn't a disaster though, was he.

It was enough there to say, but that hardness and he explained that he was too hard on occasions.

Well, we just meant Griffin leaving her.

Yep, that's a number three draft pick a captain.

And captain yeah, great, people around you, captain lost.

You need a great captain to tug your coat.

We all think Griffin was a great player.

He wasn't a great captain and he wasn't the right fit there as well.

So sometimes the support stuff, friend you beaver can let you down as well.

It turned out to be a complete wrong miss or misstep by Ryan.

Griffin didn't look at it.

Yeah, you look back now, there's not one day in his wife.

He probably wouldn't think about that decision.

Then maybe though, if tom Boyd doesn't come and we know he's paid a lot of money and tom Boyd, yeah, after that one great game, the.

Sliding doors moments of footy.

The same draft correct, Yeah, and Richmond unbelievable.

Grand Thomas sacked on September twelve, twenty and six.

Here is grand Thomas again?

Who was Someone called me and said the pop rand wasn't him.

It wouldn't be him.

But someone called and said a pop round.

I said, yeah, okay, and so I drove round and was turning into his street and I saw another director drive around the corner, and I thought, what's he doing here?

And he saw me, he didn't think I saw him, So he pulled up soon asy dref around the corner and I pulled up next to the car, and he slid down his seat and hid behind the behind the door, and I stopped and wound my window down and turned it and he sort of his head came up above the window.

So what are you doing?

What are you doing here?

And he said, come on, Tomatos, just get down there.

And I knew it was on then.

So him said with that lace of mind.

But he's great mate.

I think Rod even led him some money at one stage, and that maybe was the start of the end of a friendship there.

Now this is the club again, another misstep beab so take some over.

We know the circumstances.

They win eleven fourteen wins in those last three years, lose an elimination final by eighteen points to Melbourne.

He said that he could have Nathan Burke said he could have been the CEO manager, coach all he won and wanted.

To be.

Of all the issues here that potentially cost you a flag.

I think he could have been a truly great coach.

Well he he was to me, he was the motivator and Bundy Rendell was the was the tactician.

But they made a great, a great pairing, and Tomo was the fight them on the beaches.

I think as soon as the friendship busted up, and like Tomo, I don't think could say that he wasn't.

He would have had to have won the flag in six to survive.

And the irony is they should have actually won that elimination final.

Fraser gerrig was going to kick ten, rolled his ankle halfway through the second when I think he kicked three to four on Nathan Carroll.

By then both Clerks were out of the game.

I reckon, yeah late late, they still I think Saints were four or five goals up for a lot of the night and then anyway, he yeah, look just I remember the last game they actually they played Barry Brooks in the last game against Brooks against Bruceman up at the gab and he kicked three.

There was quite a few changes.

Probably should have stayed in the side field first round draft pick for yeah, or taking him?

Was he your first round pick from Kingland Island?

I was trying to where he's from.

Yeah, unusual, but I remember, just as a fluke, I happen to be staying at the same place as the team that final game at the Gabble.

Who's turn to be Michael Voss's last game?

Actually?

And yeah, just watching the body language or the lack of body land, well, they weren't speaking.

They weren't speaking.

And no, no exactly and not just even like to this day in the last was it last season?

Season?

Just gone to the one before.

So they both got their life memberships in the same year, but at different functions.

I am se both functions, but they were home games, but they didn't have them on the same day, which is.

And I don't think it will.

I don't think you'll ever be resolved now, that won't.

It's the club, isn't it.

And it's it's the old club version of David Williams and the coach and the president.

Just there was a famous one came back in the fifties.

Beaver will helped with his Ken Han hands and Jim Francis cars and killed her and there was probably in those days religion involved in these sort of things as well, but that they went to their grave.

Those two blakes and I met them.

Both are both good football but you couldn't bring I tried to bring them, try to bring it together.

Nothing, there's none of my business.

Really.

I thought it'd be a good story.

There was one at Colling with two ando as well, Murray Whedeman and Earned Clark.

President that period of time.

Yeah, that just went bang.

That was These blokes are legions football as players, aren't they.

So they're superstars like a married so their ego is big, and then when they fail, it's up.

Then it's very hard for them to accept.

It takes a rare person like maybe Danny Friuli before to actually accept I wasn't the right person for the job.

It's just agressing.

They're always those great stories of bringing foes together.

It was at Hobbsy I think who brought John Somerville and Dunk and Right together.

Look they met on a country road or something.

Yeah, years and thankfully because John some will passed away quite yeah, yeah, dunk and Righter passed away I think in the last last.

Year or so, which security sacking costs you the flag or did the most to deny you their second flag.

Oh, se, that's a relphie, good question to buy a bit of time.

A couple here, Yeah, there's there's probably a couple.

Well, it's not the same.

I mean the passing of Trevor Barker, that's that's not a sacking, but that yeah, that changed the course of the club's history.

And yeah, if Ross had have stayed on after because like the Vanilla decade after that of you know, with firstly under Scott Waters and then under Allen Richardson.

Unfortunately the security did even tread water.

They basically just flailed around for about a decade so to not be able to capitalize on the great side of nine and ten.

There's a lot of factors that come into play there though, in terms of the drafting, wasn't wasn't great.

Some of the recycled players that were brought in with was you know, a bad call.

Sometimes you even think I remember with the drafting and once again.

That you know Spencer White, Yeah, no, I'm thinking thinking.

Tommy Lee and and remember how like Tommy Lee and Jeremy Anders and Tommy Lee, the different Tommy who kicked.

What twenty goals in about eight games late in his first season.

But he was drafted like Jeremy.

Him and Jeremy mcgovernor dominated for Clamont in that Foxtel Cup, and I think Lee had kicked maybe six in.

The in the final of that.

And so there were these two pillars in the West Coast Skipt McGovern the Saints take take Tommy l.

There it is for you.

So a roundabout answer it probably is no, no, no, you know I still don't think music.

Yeah, in two thousand and seven, we'll go to the Dennis Pagan, like the two time premiership coach of North Melbourne and then it ekes out in a really bad way at Carlton.

His Dennis Pagan on the Sack podcast, I thought.

I was dead and walk and probably three years out from when I got to Ja Brass, I remember saying that one soon your officially either support me or sack me.

Don't sit on the fence, make a decision.

They tried, They tried to force me out.

Yeah, they sacked my assistance to try and get me to resign.

So he tells Sack that signed at Carlton sent me two days later he loses his draft picks got Arden Wells as they became.

He walks into that draft with Wayne Jackson, who's the boss at the time.

He said, I can't remember the exact words.

I said, Jeezu were tough and he said, no, we weren't.

It was a just penalty.

I felt like pushing him down the stairs.

So he was basically gone from the moment he signed up.

Dennis Well He went to Carlton having no idea the mess he was about to walk into, the financial mess that it was and obviously the penalties.

Did he tell you in two thousand and six, when he knew his time at Carlton's probably coming to an end, that there were people at Geelong agitating for Dennis Pagan to become the coach.

Of ja Law did not know that.

That's interesting in the JELA So that's increcble.

That's the name the people, but they may or may not have been on it.

So that's when having that down years, Yeah, and they're having the reviews.

Yeah, there were some people with Geelong who wanted Pagan to come as go wow and to get rid of my Obama Thompson that year, that's one hundred percent and they went I was speaking to one of them.

I know where I wasn't behind at the time, and he might have been on the board and that's the way they were hitting.

Yeah, Dennis would have loved to have done that, wouldn't he.

And they were looking at Darren creswell as well, And of course Maddy Scarlett caught up Mike Sheen and said, no, this is the man bomber.

The rest of his history, they would say.

The Review was always going to keep him in there.

Check the dates.

I reckon the Shooty exiting s and Pagan getting sacked by Carlton?

Was it in the same week?

If it wasn't, I'm pretty sure it was in the same week.

Anything else that week?

It was the third sacking that week?

Another one?

What was the other one?

I got the tijana at sea?

You've got over that, haven't the te you anna?

What a what a great expression.

The last game I called it s yeah for s N was the Brisbane Carton game at the Gabba on the was it the Saturday night?

And I think called it with Maddi Granland and Brisbane won by one hundred points.

I reckon Brown Jonio Brown kick ten and yeah, and then A couple of days later, Dennis got.

The well, hang on, we're here.

You're a multi hyphenate star, star of stage and the screen.

Who sat your sn or more to the point, how did yet sacked?

Because you were a staring heaps of games.

Of football a political situation which I didn't even realize was.

Was developing.

It was.

The two gentlemen that sacked me.

Here he's a gentleman.

Very loosely.

Yeah, we just got caught.

It was actually around a It was around the Anthony Cooper Foodis retirement announcement.

She was a big week for she and he was going to go.

On the Drive Show and I think, ironically, given where I've ended up, he was held up as thou Jared was running late on three out W so they got to coot to late.

I think s he n Drive got him on like a two minutes to seven and I actually buzz around the guy producing me that night is now the best was Rob Harding, who's the Santaway Dragons coach another premiership this year, and I said the just buzz around of the studio and say, if you're going to get him on it, to just hold him over so I can do him at five past seven because I was hosting the evening show anyway, they got him on for like ninety seconds, so then he wasn't going to do another interview.

And as I crossed over with Frankie Luch really good mate and the OX, I said, you know you'd put that one in for the Media Awards fellows, wouldn't it, Like, you know, that's a bit of banter.

But I didn't simmer about it all night.

But I just thought, this is the lack of teamwork happening at this place.

So I emailed Africa if here at eleven o'clock so i'd cool down.

I emailed the and it was like we took calls on Kurder did a great tribute to him in the first half hour.

I emailed the program.

Manager and just pointed out, you know, if we want to get anywhere as a station, this is the type of teamwork that isn't happening.

And then got called in the net next day by him and the general manager and said, so you're later.

And you're the only one of us four that has not been sacked or removed as a contributor from SCN.

You guys have been absolutely compelling we didn't them have time for the five Quirky Sackings.

Thank you so much, Bruce, Thank you so much, John, Thanks Welling, Yes, Megah and Beaver.

Boys a lot of fun fellas.

Thanks for listening to Sacked.

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