Back game in the MCG where we beat Nolbur.

That is the most phenomenal fifteen minutes I've ever had in mind life.

Really, it was extraordinary walking off that ground, walking to Bossy and we're walking the crowd exhilaration.

Yeah, extraordinary.

Never felt anything like that at Hawthorne.

I'm John Ralph and I'm Glenn McFarlane.

Welcome to Sacked, a podcast that explores what really happens when the ax falls in the AFL world.

We'll take you behind the scenes with some of the biggest names in football and find out how they found out their time was up and who.

Pulled the trigger.

Today defeated by the Blues.

The second part of our chat with Andrew Russell.

Players, yes, coaches definitely, but recruiting new high performance managers wouldn't usually get the fans excited.

And yet when Andrew Russell made the shift from a four premiership winning stint at Hawthorne to Carlton, it was seen as joining the missing link holding the Blues back.

So why five years later did the twenty six year AFL industry career of Andrew Russell and in disappointment?

What happened?

And how does Russell feel about his time and the Blues.

Now, how did you get to Calton Paine Little brad Lloyd's.

So it came out of nowhere, you know.

I felt like the edge had gone out of Hawthorne.

Felt like the.

Players weren't you know, they weren't as in it as they were because they were very in it.

I just felt like my time was up.

And you said, of know, when you don't have the performance anymore, you know, and you need to know.

So for me, I was just like, all right, we'll have a look at a at a different environment.

So I walking to Carlton that's a different environment.

How different was it?

No?

It's completely no, completely different, Yeah, no, it was completely different.

It was it was it was, yeah, it was.

You know, I thought the club was the club looked like it was being run well, you know, it looked like they had their finances in order and there's a lot of things.

But you know, you're walking to a club with high talent that are losing and that had an impact on them, you know, like these guys learned how to lose.

Can you have that culture?

You've seen it before?

Me, I don't understand that.

Well they so you lose a lot used to losing, you feel comfortable with losing you you know, it's like that's how the mind works.

You become very comfortable in the space that you're in and so it's almost like you expect it.

And so there was a behavi as soon one as it did.

It was just like wow, you know, there was a bit of work to my first day, a Saturday morning training session.

I think six or seven players up late.

It was just like, you know, I mean, what are you Is this the starting point?

That's culture the lack of it.

There was probably seven players that I had no idea whether I'm going to be able to train from one day the next I'd rock up and think, I have no idea whether you can actually be out there not, you know, because you get to know their partners like one day they can, the next day they can't, then they can't, then they can too sore or whatever.

Whatever.

So there was I felt it was.

It was really challenging.

It was really hard, and I had gone from a group is really tight group who wanted everything, and you know, the people around me were outstanding in Andrew Lambert and DC and medically and conditioning, and we were tired and we were prepared to go wherever we needed to go.

So I came in with that same approach like whoa, whoa, this is a bit geez, that's a bit infronting.

Yeah, well, what's confronting about it.

This is a high performance.

Yeah.

But so what happened with is then and then the club.

The thing the club, they serviced everyone outside of the club because they were losing, So players are going here there, and stuff were goings and and it was just like, wow, we never did any of it at Hawthorne.

Terms of county members and outside.

Influence, outside influence and all lots of stuff.

And on the whole they are extremely supportive.

There were there were elements that were challenging within that, but on the whole really really supportive.

But it felt like a different you know, it just feels different.

It felt different.

You go back to Hawthorne and it feels like family.

You go to and it does feel like business.

But in all honesty, that should have.

Not a huge effect on the football team because you surround yourself with a group of people and it's that group of people that have the direct influence.

That outer layer.

Look, it's there, it's part of the culture and that's still the challenges is to block it out because on the whole.

Mostly it's supportive and when it's good, it's not just good, it is amazing.

Calvin gave me some of the greatest days of my life professionally.

That that that gave me the mcg where we beat beat Melbourne, Melbourne, that is the most phenomenal fifteen minutes I've ever had in my life.

Down final.

Can you believe it?

It was extraordinary walking off that ground, walking with Bossy and we're walking the crowd exillar extraordinary.

Never felt anything like that at Hawthorne and even you know, even the challenges that I think that's the best period I've ever had in the game of wins and losses.

Thought equal to Port Adelaide and some of the greatest teams have worked with.

That period of twenty three is almost as good a block as I've ever seen or been involved in.

Yeah, it was extraordinary.

Now we felt like we're under pressure the whole time, so we couldn't enjoy it.

Yeah, that was going to say you wouldn't enjoy that place.

It wasn't enjoyable until the end and then the.

Prevue final was it was.

I mean, it was bizarre and it felt like a home game.

Yeah and crazy You're in Brisbane and the crowd.

And a fume you were there early.

Wow, it wasn't that experience at a home game at the Gabba.

And then, you know, I honestly believe that's as that is as equal, that is as equal.

We gave that group as equal opportunity to win as any group I've ever worked with, and they didn't take it, and that was really disappointing.

Fitness wise, they had the space and partly because we've had some issues during the year that we were fresh.

So it's just like, oh my god, we're going to make the most of this being fresh.

We're fresh, We were in good shape.

But I don't think we dealt with the moment well at all.

In the moment, down by two points at halftime, it felt like we were down by ten guys.

Really you felt that.

You can feel that.

It felt like we were down and I'm thinking, what is going on here?

We are in a position to play, you know, and in a really good position, and then we actually came back late, you know what I mean.

Yeah, you only didn't get beaten by much in the end and then we get.

Cheered off, like with one phenomenal so that I come out of a prelim final.

Every prelim final involved in gutted.

This one was.

And I'm thinking, what is what aren't they seeing here?

Is that the crowd is that's a moment, This is a moment lost and not many people were saying that I was seeing excitement into the future, and I get that, is.

It been comfortable and mediocrity.

Explain explain that phenomena.

I don't think it's that.

I just think they'd come from so far and you know, and even within the year, it comes from so far that everyone's feeling like, wow, that was pretty special and it was to you know, to get there, and it was like that group did a phenomenal job to get to that point, that playing group and the way that they played and the hunger they played with, and like it was pretty good to watch.

You go through that period where.

Six out of seven weeks I think we won by sixty points on average, six out of seven after the bye.

I've never seen a team, Yeah, teens have done that, so you know, and then we had you know, while she comes back in and he's fresh, so he wins a final player series final.

You know, oh, there was so much it was, it was there, you know.

It was the one that got away in a sense that you think you thought that you could have you thought you could have Beaten Colling it the next week because a very even group.

Well yeah, absolutely.

Like the margins of this.

Absolutely, And in the end the story gets told and they're the winners and they're amazing and they're no good and whatever.

But the reality when you're that.

Close to it is, you know, how how the margins of this And we know the moments in games.

And you know, and I can go back to that game and so you know what, there are really big moments in games.

So describe the feelings, Say, for the Hawthorn blokes, should be two points down at halftime and like we're about to challenge here, and what happened to Carlton for those blokes not to seize that moment?

Maybe maybe it's back to where you know seven and Hawthorn was like that and they hadn't been there for so long, so they got you know, they were beating Adelaide in seven at Marble.

It's one of the great games that day.

I was writing in color, and I was thinking, what will I write about members of my game?

That game was phenomenal, and because they hadn't been there for so long, had they sort of felt like they felt pretty good.

I didn't have that.

It's not like until you're there and you're close and you miss.

There's not many teams that have done that.

And even Hawthorne really was a very rare example of going from the bottom the bottom when we got there to the top within four years, that's pretty that's pretty rare.

Are I should have got to do your time.

And so I don't feel like it's that much different, But the game's harder.

More even you talk about that level of acceptance of when you're coming off, you know, there were people obviously half celebrating you're losing your preliminary final.

Is that the players?

Is that the supporters?

Is it the administration?

I mean mainly supporters, Yeah.

But the club was feeling pretty good about it.

Yeah.

I don't know, you know, you just feel the players are disappointed.

But I feel like the players, so you know, where, this is our time and we'll.

Go on, you know, we'll go on.

Yeah, and then and that's probably a good.

Place to be.

But you know, I've been part of groups have been absolutely distraught, gutted.

You don't want to leave their house, you know what I mean, after that type of loss.

And I think that happens though the longer you.

Go, the more you're involved, and if you miss one and then you miss two, and then that's when it really really hurts because you.

Know how much work it takes to get there.

It takes a lot of work and a lot it's got to go.

There's a lot of a lot of things that go to align.

So what went wrong in your last year so you didn't have full autonomy for the program?

What does that mean?

Well, look pretty simple.

There was a leadership structure set up.

There was a different.

Leadership structure, and I my position was different to what it.

Was only in that last year or well it sort of evolved to that, you know, I have a last two It sort of evolved to that.

There were lots of views within the fully department.

You know, the leadership structure was quite flat.

I wouldn't set it up like that.

You know, that's where I wasn't at my best, and you know there was there was you know, after the review, the review didn't.

The review didn't do good things for lots of people at the football club.

Lots of people went to self after that review.

Self preservation, self preservation.

So any time we'll challenge people went to sell from that point in time.

And then you had a group that had nothing to do with it.

So it was quite bizarre, you know, that came in the coaches, coaches came in.

Everyone else was the same, So I think you know that.

And so in the end, it's just like someone's gonna make the call and and the and the responsibility was diffused across across many, many different voices about what should have been done.

And I worked really hard.

I worked really.

Hard to do I did an internal review and everything we were doing, and I was robust.

I was robust, and everyone else I was robust and everything you know, and you know, and the long year in the game, I tapped into different areas, so I would challenge people within around what are we doing with recruiting and what are we doing?

What we're playing?

Well, what do we do?

You know, like this is what I'm saying around I've seen a lot and some people didn't enjoy that.

Some people didn't like too robust with your criticisms, with your accountability.

Yeah, some people didn't.

Some people didn't enjoy that, and so that's that's fine, But that's an environment that you know.

It was.

It was, it was the the program was the had the least amount of me in it than ever.

In the last year.

And so both you know, I was you know, you.

Told to stay in your lane.

The president says, you walk off.

The grand says Jackie, staying in your lane.

It's well, guess what, you know, it's almost it's like it's like saying to the coach or the coach, but you have no control over stoppages.

Yeah, it's got to work on other stuff.

Stay in your lane, and you can't.

So for me, and I've been what I have been fortunate is that my role, you know, prior and prior to that, I was very fortunate that I had people back me in and I could go where I needed to go within the football program.

And that had a lot more than just conditioning involved, and that's what it was.

And people were comfortable with that.

People become uncomfortable with that.

At the time of which we had a few issues that were challenging, issues of which you know, They were simple as in, as in the guys that didn't hadn't done the work, broke down.

There was nothing complex about this.

You know, the average percent preseason is a very strong relationship between percent preseason and robustness.

Of all those guys that struggled, the average percent preseason was fifty eight percent of that group.

So they just they didn't weren't even in the program, you know, hardly in the program.

So it was not complex.

Share was probably the challenging one because he done what he was the only one outside that and you know, and and they've done some great work, you know, they've really done.

The group there now has done some amazing work with error to get him back up and running.

But you know, so then it became pretty much you know, really the Geelong game.

We after the Geelong game last year, I said every year and then after that, you know, I felt that had that conversation go with it was fine.

You know, look we had you know, we got on really well.

You know, we got really well.

But there's getting on really well and.

Then there's you know, and then there's there there's another level.

And so for me it's it's like, well, you know, that's a program that is comfortable.

Doing what it's doing.

I'm okay with that.

It's not that's you know, I'm pretty comfortable in going and doing.

Something else now.

So basically, when they got injured, you didn't have any responsibility for them.

Look, you know, I played my role in it.

You know, I played my role in that, and some guys couldn't get the work done.

So I'm I'm in that.

Don't worry about that.

Yeah, I'm in that.

But it's probably more once a get injured, like well, we got this.

Suggestions you know, weren't too interested in hearing perspective on it.

The final, Like I said, the final, a lot of blokes injured, risks Dougherty, Like Dougherty was a risk.

So take us through that final given that, I think most of us would have felt sick if you'd done it again.

But you guys felt he was ready.

Yeah.

Well, and so just see to go about even within all those challenges, and you know what's I running.

I believe that we could win it last year, and you know what, we got back into that game against Brisbane and so we're one game away.

And that's that's where people don't realize we were one game away.

Or one quarter away from clicking in the.

Gear as a group last year, that's and we actually did click, but too many guys had missed too much, too much connection, lack of belief just because you can't do it unless you're doing it.

But if that game goes differently and we can control the dammage early, I still believe that we could do and and people who in the game understand that that.

That's how fine line is.

We had fresh guys who'd actually done a lot of work.

That's why I say it was still robust.

So that's why I was really I was really disappointed because I still felt like we could win it.

I genuinely believe that I thought it was.

I didn't think we would, and I didn't think it was, but I thought that, you know, you just do enough and.

You can get going.

And you know that was my belief.

So Doc, Yeah, just it wasn't it wasn't enough of a risk for you guys, well, you know, it wasn't too much for ask.

The player himself.

Well, the issue for us was a performance issue.

Can he do what he needs to do under the bright lights without being under that pressure?

That was the physical side is less the game.

The game is at its slowest at the end of the year, so the best time to bring players back into play is probably rounds.

Three.

That's when everyone's out there fatigued motivations at the lowest because you're rather done for the year or you're trying to preserve a little bit for finals.

It's the game is generally not at its highest.

So I've always been comfortableing blogs back into that's on me.

That game is an you know that.

Yeah, look it was a risk, but the player was very robust.

He's i meanways done his career, how he's dealt with said, I mean, he's an extraordinary character, and what and his ability to perform in the past.

So we go back and say can he perform and in the past he's been able to.

It's like we have a history of him performing physically.

When you're using great shape, there's got to be a little bit of an element of him versus someone else from a coaching point of view.

So I don't know, but obviously they're saying we think unless you you got to think we're happy for him to do the job than someone else.

Otherwise, you know, a plan because it's an easy one to leave out.

It doesn't matter if Dockety wants to play or not, don't want to plane.

There's that bit in it.

And then and now he's gone on and planing the year.

I think you could argue and if you're going to win it and you're going to go, well, said have got a plane because you got to get him in the team.

He took the risk on Cyril and he's not Cyril.

But the look, I think it was a I think it was a reason we're all on board together.

Everyone was on the same page.

Everyone was in it.

We outlined it, We outlined it, you know, four months earlier, and it basically we just kept he kicked the box, which really really closely did a great job with Maddie bode To legends, very good at what they do, doing great work there now, So brish reward.

That's what we do.

If Rob Priestley came to you and said, what's your advice on those influencers, which are what board members, cotery groups, the money men, how do we separate ourselves from them in terms of the football department or the players.

I don't think you can do much more.

I think they are reasonably separated I think it's up to the individual in the role to deal with it.

You know, the club I think can possibly play a role to protect from how much exposure you have to them.

As I said, you know, there was lots.

Of exposure from the Footy department for a long time and then it has been pulled back there.

Look, they've done a lot of work on this.

They understand it.

When you're in it, you.

Get it, talk about it.

So this is the stuff that's been talked about a lot.

And to be fair that that it is what it is.

You've got to learn to deal with it in all honesty.

Don't try and control it, don't try and come up with strategies.

Be strong enough to be strong enough to have to deal with it, because guess what the good is great.

Yeah, so you just got to understand the environment you're in and working with it.

Last one from me on Charlie Kenner, the rebuilding of Charlie Kener branch of how challenging, how exciting to get him right?

Yeah?

Yeah, Well it was because I mean he had one surgery, then he had a different surgery.

He went to a trauma surgeon who completely changed the surgery and that that was the catalyst to change everything because his knee, the initial surgery had his.

Knee just was continually irritated.

He just we just couldn't send his.

Knee down, and so we couldn't train him, we couldn't do anything, couldn't do his strength work.

It was just like chronically irritated.

Then had a different procedure trauma surgeon and that changed his world.

So and then we could actually recondition him.

So then it became you know, and because it's a joint injury, very similar to sang Brian lakes your spend time, do the strength work.

Built him up slowly.

Charlie's a very hard worker.

He loves training hard, you.

Know, like he loves the work.

Charlie loves them so and to be and we got him back to you know, he did eighty percent of the preseason, He did eighty five percent of like coming backs of Good Lives.

It wasn't that we got him back to fifty sixty percent.

He got back to doing more than Shaun did.

But he's like anyone, he's a confidence he you know, like the best in the game require confidence from.

Doing the work.

And we had three years where he got the working and and therefore you see a result because he trained, He trained consistently, he got confidence in his body, he jumped.

You know, when he's jumping, he's feeling good.

He's not jumping, he's not feeling good.

Pretty simple with Charlie.

What's happening right now?

So then you know, then he doesn't do much for a preseason this year, so.

You know there's no mystery, no, and.

That's not his fault.

It's just that he has two or three surgery of whatever you had.

I don't even know the detail, but I know the ankle and then whatever you know there you can only do what you can only do.

And so I think he missed a fair.

Bit the last one from me.

Two years ago you thought this could potentially win a premiership.

Even last year you had that thoughts in your mind.

What did you have those thoughts in your mind?

I was being a calling with supporter.

I think it's going to be a colling with Carton Grand Fine it would have been massive.

Well, I think that everyone if you had at moments over the last two years you said why.

Not yeah, and even said why not yeah absolutely, and even last year had those feelings that there, what what's this group still got capable of doing Do you think it hasn't worked out this year?

Are they still capable of doing something?

Do you think, well, of course they're still capable, you know, but I think I think you don't need to change a light for things to change dramatically.

And I'm probably main personnel number one.

Yeah.

Sure.

So you know, you put a different midfielder in there, speeding power, you put a different one food of the ball speeding power, and you put a runner behind the ball, and you're a different team.

That's that's the reality because you look back to where they were in twenty three.

You look at that, Yeah, whilst he's playing in the middle, dynamic midfield, March Bank smart player down back can run hard Jack Martin forward dynamic smart.

So you got three places like so.

This is this is where people think, you know, they make dramatic.

Statements on the list, but what they've got to be is they've got to be really smart.

They've got to know who they're going after, they've got to know which holes they really want to hit, and then you.

Get it right your pop.

I mean, history shows.

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