[SPEAKER_00]: brought to you by BedroomBattleField.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is the table top miniature movie podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: For most hobbyists, gaming happens in the evening, and almost every group or club meet after 7pm.

[SPEAKER_00]: But being one of those odd balls who's very much a marlin person, and have a few very enthusiastic about role in dice after that time, and if I could play something it would prefer a boy be earlier in the day with a nice cup of coffee.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to find that morning game had to explore this a wee bit more so I was thinking to myself who's the weirdest person I know in the hobby and that is of course my old pal Dan of paint older menace.

[SPEAKER_02]: So the majority games that I play will start at about 8 a.m.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think I mentioned this a few times before like the amount of people that I can play the list of people I can play is quite small because I want to play early in the morning.

[SPEAKER_02]: that a reason why I want to play early in the morning is because I feel more awake at that point, I feel more alert.

[SPEAKER_02]: But then also, I can round up the game, probably around lunchtime, and then I can spend the rest of the day with a family, whereas playing midweek after work, like work does take a lot out of me, maybe I'm just a bit soft, but you know, the work gets the best of me.

[SPEAKER_02]: So by the time I got home and sent a family for a couple of hours, like the last thing I wanted to do really is then go out and play a game.

[SPEAKER_02]: I could do that, but I just don't feel that I would be given the game my best and get in the best experience out of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So generally speaking, I'll play Saturday morning, 7.7 a.m.

[SPEAKER_02]: Earlier, earlier start, that is like 7 a.m.

[SPEAKER_02]: starting playing the game at 7 a.m.

[SPEAKER_02]: Usually around our 7 a.m.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I'd say a bit like some people listening will be horrified at that and just couldn't imagine it, but to me like to me that is the most like appealing and optimal time like if I am always out my bed early, I'm just a morning person by nature and like I feel really sharp like the back of six seven o'clock I get coffee and like I feel I feel at that point I would really love to play a game but it's just [SPEAKER_00]: socially not conducive, I mean you're managing it so there are obviously ways which we'll get in about.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know we hear about like club nights and stuff like that 7pm, 10pm, a lot of people playing in evenings for obvious practical reasons but it's just never a time that appeals to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I know there's the thing about like, I mean, if you take painting for example, and I use this approach myself like that most nights I really can't be bothered painting, but I know that once I'll, you know, I just say to myself, okay, let's just put a wash on, let's just get the brushes out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And once you do that, you're like, okay, this is fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that works for me, but I don't think it's really the same for gaming.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's a totally different kettle of fish to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And after a day of work, [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't think my brain is like, I just can't be bothered with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't do it, what you know is me in a sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that an age?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that an age thing, but oh, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Don't think so.

[SPEAKER_02]: is it because I'm an old gifer.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to stay up at that point.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you always, if you always came to approach to that way or like, did you use to play anything?

[SPEAKER_02]: No, like, well, I don't know because when when I first started playing in America, it was just the game's nights, which were during the week.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I didn't really think about playing early on weekends or anything like that really to be honest and the only time I could get games was at night I never, I wouldn't say that I truly enjoyed playing at that time the best.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I guess I just really think about it, start off with Yeah, so, yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, it's interesting one, I think that maybe as game and as an older adult, [SPEAKER_02]: maybe if you're younger adult, you don't mind doing midweek, I just wonder if maybe it's my age and I've got a family now and all that kind of stuff that makes me want to avoid playing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can't do it, I just don't ever feel like I'm really truly in it as much as I play on a early understanding of mine.

[SPEAKER_00]: I imagine where you're like jobbing and back-downed and stuff like that, you'll be pretty familiar with the concept of decision fatigue.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was trying to explain teaching to somebody a while ago.

[SPEAKER_02]: And they were like, you start up with the usual jabs of, oh, you never in or you spend all your, all your time and all the day and you've got all these other days.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, yeah, you do.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the good, but I genuinely feel that you need them.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I was trying to explain it in terms of project management.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was probably the closest thing that I can, I can, I can create.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so yeah, decision for [SPEAKER_02]: You've probably got five individual projects going on one go because you've got five different classes on your docket any one time right and then within those individual projects everyone's doing the same project in radically different ways and then you have to give feedback.

[SPEAKER_02]: individually to those people that are doing the project in in radically different ways, radical different levels and have completely different needs and also the not adult.

[SPEAKER_02]: So when you work with an adult and adult, you can reason with an adult and adults got certain levels of motivation either inherently as an adult or also you've got a motivation of a salary.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you've got five different projects getting done by people that don't want to do that project that I've just been told that they're doing that project.

[SPEAKER_02]: and they're all doing the same project in unique ways, and you have to kind of keep all those plates spinning and all of those things going through your head.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, decision fatigue is real, that's a real thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it happens, it happens a lot, even before gaming, is that sometimes I'll come home, or even just for a holiday period, and I have to say to my wife, she's really, really patient.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, honestly, just whatever right now, like, I cannot make a decision right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's also part of trying to be reflective on who you are as a person.

[SPEAKER_02]: You've got a lot of teachers, you can probably bump into teachers, you probably think a lot of teachers and our bets, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because it's like they always have to be in control, you always have to be in charge.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, I'd try to be really reflective and that's not me.

[SPEAKER_02]: So there's times where I've had to, like, with that would make, so with family or whatever it's like, listen, I'm not going to make any decisions.

[SPEAKER_02]: You just tell me how it's going to be.

[SPEAKER_02]: because I just, I'm done.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I'm done.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was a classic example.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like the cliched example almost in the self-help world about Steve Jobs with us and said, like, he always, [SPEAKER_00]: what was it you wore like a black like polo neck and trousers and i think it was like Homer Simpson's wardrobe like just the same clothes and apparently i don't know how true this was but apparently his thing was like if i don't have to decide what to wear in the morning it's like one last decision [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so again, like I know that's kind of cliched in that, but like I think there's something in there, you know, that the less like minutiae you have to work your way through of a day, you may be, um, you know, you're able to make key decisions.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess, you know, that ties into like playing a game.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of decisions involved, not just in the game itself, but the preparation, the organization, there's all that sort of stuff around.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think you think you've got a finite amount of decisions that you can make in anyone given day.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think everyone's different with that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Does that kind of make sense?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and yes, sometimes you don't, you don't want it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's maybe why a lot of people just watch TV.

[SPEAKER_02]: Does that kind of make sense?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just put the TV on and stare at it because you don't need to make a decision on that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, like, just put on channel one.

[SPEAKER_02]: and you don't need to even decide what channel you thought it's just playing it on me and just yeah yeah so I think I was really whether whether we see that on a conscious level or conscious of the decision fatigue or whether it's something that was subconscious of but yeah for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, that that was bothering me for a long time that like I always felt like maybe Friday night we should be playing some so like you work all week my way for so week we've got a four year old you know the week it goes by in a blog But it's very hard and certain ways you're doing a lot and then you get to Friday you put hard don't are bad [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, do you then, you know, crack a game out or do you just put up a nice Netflix Sean and just sit and vegetating.

[SPEAKER_00]: I always feel bad about myself for doing that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't watch TV at all should a week.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I need to cut myself some slack here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, it's just like an hour of tally on a Friday night.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm sure there's more things to be doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, no.

[SPEAKER_02]: I get that though.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't have too much friction with my wife.

[SPEAKER_02]: You probably have to ask her the same question to see what she says, but I don't feel any friction in our too much reflection in our relationship, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: But where friction does occur?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's when we both want to play games.

[SPEAKER_02]: She wants to play a game and I want to play a game.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't want to teach her a game.

[SPEAKER_02]: Does that kind of make sense?

[SPEAKER_02]: And not because I don't want to teach her a game.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, that's what I'm doing all day.

[SPEAKER_02]: So all I'm doing all day is I'm making decisions for the people.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm making sure everybody knows what they're doing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm checking that they know what they're doing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm making sure they're having a good time.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm making sure they're having a good time.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm making sure they're having a good task.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then to come home and to effectively do exactly the same thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: But when it's supposed to be fun, it's not.

[SPEAKER_02]: The second one is so what would be really refreshing and I said this to a few times like it'd be amazing if you just learnt a game and you taught me because that will take that decision fatigue out right, having to be the person that knows what they're doing, having to be the person that makes the decisions, having to be the person to make sure that you have no time and so she has like certain times you know, it would be great if it was more but that's one thing that stops me playing more at home because we've got a we've got a [SPEAKER_02]: You know, but case with with loads of amazing games on but we don't play them enough and that it that is because of probably decision fatigue which is the where from making too many decisions all the time what are we going to play what are the rules what's you need to do next all that kind of thing making the decisions for the party yeah that so that that prevents me from playing gate more games at home and especially with little kids as well saying kind of thing which makes me feel bad at times like you're [SPEAKER_02]: I really wish that I'd play more, but because the nature of my work is just I need a break from that, otherwise I'd just feel like I'm just stuck on repeat for the entire time.

[SPEAKER_00]: To instead you're going around the house where I bail at like fighting the lawn and come on, kids let's go up and play for it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, best part of the day, best part of the day, best part of the day.

[SPEAKER_00]: I find that people who aren't mornin' people really love it when you tell them the mornins the best part of the day.

[SPEAKER_00]: They really like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like to hear it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just it's it's different.

[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's different.

[SPEAKER_02]: What I think people at night owls or people that early rises.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think the thing that they like about those things is the same.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a little bit more solitude at those extremities of the day.

[SPEAKER_02]: And there's more space to do whatever you want.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's quieter.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can focus a little bit more.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't think there's too much difference between kind of like, you know, the early rises and the late sleepers.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's two shades of the same car in I guess what it comes down and again, I know what what maybe me and assumption here that you need someone to play a game might be of course know that you know solo game and as a backstang and we could be began to that too, but if you're looking for some the two player game with [SPEAKER_00]: I suppose it depends like how likely as it you're going to find somebody late at night versus early in the morning and the the answer might surprise you I don't know but I mean you're talking about playing it seven in the morning like how did that actually come about I think the mate you were play with I'd like to [SPEAKER_02]: I'd like him to speak to somebody else about dealing with me, but I'm there, but he doesn't know I'm there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Does that kind of make sense?

[SPEAKER_02]: I'd like him to have a conversation with somebody else, and I'd like to listen, because I guess I came across this really strange, because it's like, you wanted to, you wanted to, it was a guy that kind of, a new, it was in like a group chat, like a hobby group chat on WhatsApp, and a new kind of album from like pitches that it shared, and not those sorts [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of knew of him and then someone said that he's moving to my city.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, I'm great.

[SPEAKER_02]: We like the kind of same games he talked about frost graves before and it's spoken about all the games that I liked.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I was like, he was like, yeah, yeah, we should play.

[SPEAKER_02]: So then I was like, okay, I want to play too.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I only want to play one of these games.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's the games.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like I only want to play one of these games and I don't mind playing like more than one But I want to play a small amount of games a lot.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to helicopter around a bunch of games It's like I know what I like I know what I want to play and I've already got games that I've not played enough [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's like the fact that you continue to want to play with me is amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's like, I only have played these games.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to play these games a lot.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, I only want to play a weekend.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I want to start a AM at the latest.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I kind of get, I just, in some ways, I think that's good because I was like very clear.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I was very clear.

[SPEAKER_02]: But then equally, I just, I was concerned that you might be taking a back a little bit.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I was just very open to those other people that I've played tried to play with a play at least just never aligns You know, it's like you kind of send your message about what you want But the you don't listen in or don't care the try and the try and change it into something else I was another few guys that I was trying to play and it was like oh Can you complain this oh another thing was like I don't want to travel too far to play [SPEAKER_02]: because I don't want to be commuting massive amounts of time.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it was pretty tight stipulations.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I tried to play with a few other people.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was just too difficult because it was like, oh, can you come play at this part of the city?

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like no, it's too far away.

[SPEAKER_02]: And they were like, oh, it's only 40 minutes.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, make that an hour and 20 minutes that I've got a travel, just to think, I got my little geek back on the train.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm sitting there.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, what are you doing?

[SPEAKER_02]: You got your little world buddies, all that kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, so I kind of really thought about about what would make me game my best and I kind of just threw that out there to this guy and and we compromised on a few things So it was like I don't mind playing at that time, but would it be okay if sometimes you came to mind and sometimes I go to yours and I was like, yeah, yeah, and I'll probably That's totally fine, but then he wanted me to play his house and it's like any other family and stuff and I was like what what your family going to do and it's like, oh, that'll be sitting watching TV So it is like, yeah, like a dining room and it's kind of so far in [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought that might be a bit weird, like any young kids and there'd be that grabbing our staff.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think kind of like how that came about.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just being really open about what it was that had been me gaming at my best in my opinion.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sharing that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then kind of trying to find somebody who would bend, you know, to a certain degree.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm willing to bend, you know, I'm willing to kind of, you know, compromise or come to agreements on certain things.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, so that's how it came about.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah that's I think like as you get older you're more inclined just to be that more direct and I'm not mean unpleasant I'm just saying like I think you're just more inclined to say like these are the things I prefer and I'm not really up for that or less and people generally appreciate it because I think vagueness or like vague promises or agreements at [SPEAKER_02]: It just leads to procrastination or just like bending it all together for the deadline that's when people start dropping out is not putting an up and But it also also links back that decision fatigue that you're talking about like where's if you if you always having to come to an agreement about what is you doing when you're doing it what time you're doing it [SPEAKER_02]: that that those are decisions.

[SPEAKER_02]: Does that make sense?

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's even even before you start a game, you're on to go through this whole process of that, you know, deciding on our stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I want to be like, okay, this this is this is what we'll do.

[SPEAKER_02]: We sat at a morning, 8 a.m.

[SPEAKER_02]: at the latest, we'll take it in turns, we'll do like two weeks here, two weeks at yours or whatever, we actually agreed to meet a Starbucks, like a local Starbucks to win.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it was like, when we got Starbucks, we'll play more board games, bit board-based games, like on a smaller table.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then when we come down here, it'll be like table top games.

[SPEAKER_02]: But even then it was difficult because he was like, I've seen this new game.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then I was like, at first, I was like, oh, that sounds interesting, I'm being polite.

[SPEAKER_02]: But then it just touched the point where he was like, he was like, do you want to go in on this?

[SPEAKER_02]: And like, mate, mate, no.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've got games that I want to play and I want to play the games that I have.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it took a lot of time, it didn't take a lot of time to get it.

[SPEAKER_02]: But now it's real easy.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's no decisions to be made.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like I'll just fire a message and say, are you off this Saturday?

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, yeah, and like, where, what do you want to do?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is it, yeah, I always say it's my turn to come up to you or do you want to stay down here?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because the good thing about him coming down here is that I play a play on campus and I can get in one of the classrooms so it's a completely neutral venue, got a whole big open space that's just asked for the entire day, no one needs to rub to those around like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, so just getting into that habit and getting into that rhythm where you're just comfortable and it's it makes it easier to play Because you know you know it you don't use making any decisions just like make yeah, I'll be down good happy days and you get all set up pretty good What's the what's the time the general time footprint on your day like not just playing the game but everything around that the travel and everything [SPEAKER_02]: Well, if it's here, I literally just go down there and then I'm in, so generally what happens is if we're going to kick off at eight, I'll go down at a classroom about Quart Pass 7, I'll take all the stuff down, I'll set up the battlefield and I'll set up everything and then it'll come about after seven and then [SPEAKER_02]: it'll be set up as army while I'm just kind of rolling up the mission.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I've got like two, two, six, roll the mission, set up the terrain or whatever it is, the deployment zones and then by the time I've done that, he set his army up and then we can get going at eight, tend to try and round it off by between 11 and 12 depending on how the game's going and what I really like about that is that [SPEAKER_02]: I don't, again, I kind of, I'm always considered about sharing my thoughts, because you're just an odd bastard, aren't you?

[SPEAKER_02]: But what I like about finishing at lunchtime is I feel like I've still got a lot of my leisure time ahead of me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas when I've played in the afternoon, when I play in the middle of the day, it's like a wake up in the morning.

[SPEAKER_02]: I won't really do so much because I'm getting ready to play.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then I'll go and play in the middle of the day.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then when you finished, [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, you're not, you're not got so much of your day left.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I feel like the gaming has taken up all of my day off.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what I like about playing in the morning is that I'm up and I'm out and I'm gone.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then I'll finish and I'll say it's about lunch time.

[SPEAKER_02]: I still feel like I've got a whole bunch in my leisure time ahead of me.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's, I feel like I've done more stuff in one day.

[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas in an equally, if I'd play in the afternoon, [SPEAKER_02]: I'm thinking about the game a lot, and so I'm not necessarily enjoying what I'm doing during the day as much because I'm building up to the game, and then was the guest finish.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was your age times done.

[SPEAKER_02]: So for me, mentally playing in the morning is really good because I feel like I'm squeezing more leisure time out of the leisure time.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that makes sense.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm totally open to understanding that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I might be a bit math.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think in that way.

[SPEAKER_02]: It makes sense to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I completely agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like I'd be totally the same.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I mean, I like the thought having the afternoon is a bit like a forgotten weekend, which, you know, most people for most people, that's when you're going to game, I guess, through the day certainly so I like the ability to still go out and do something for most of the afternoon and not have like that again, the game as a positive thing, but I think having it.

[SPEAKER_00]: have not set in there in the calendar at the end of the day.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's probably certain things you're going to do or not do because you've got that there, but yeah, I just a long-winded way of saying that I agree and understand.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, thanks man.

[SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate you could have gone in a different direction.

[SPEAKER_02]: But equally it's about what you do during the day.

[SPEAKER_02]: It depends on what your workflow is like.

[SPEAKER_02]: So for me, like playing games midweek during the [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't because it but that's because of the work where is if I'm on all of a that loosens up a lot more because it's about playing when you've got the energy playing when you've got the motivation and playing when you feel like you can optimize that game time as opposed to forcing it and I've never been one for forcing it to be honest.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think if if you're forcing it [SPEAKER_02]: Like, there's this encouraging it and doing it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes when you think like you were using same before by painting, there's that you know quite often you can feel like you can't be all the painting.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm the same, but when you start painting it, you're all right.

[SPEAKER_02]: But paintings are a lot easier to start and stop, whereas going out and playing requires a more significant investment in time and effort, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't want to go through the motions like that's the key.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't want to force it too much and there's a difference between encouraging it and getting out there, but then also forcing it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's no really much point in that to be asked.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, because like I've had, I've actually had very little games that I've played in the evening, but in the few that I've had, and this is how I'm known then, I've felt like I've manually checked out, which are then like, I'm annoyed up myself for because I'm like, you want to play more and now that you're playing, you've kind of, you've checked out already, you're kind of clockwatching, you're not really like completely engaged in any more.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you come away just feeling annoyed with yourself.

[SPEAKER_00]: So again, that's like it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, go and think back to the decisions.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like in a game you have to make a lot of decisions and you want to feel like you've got the ability to make those decisions and you want to make those decisions.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's times where I've been playing games and it's been late and I've been tired.

[SPEAKER_02]: and I've not really cared, I've just gone to Iowa.

[SPEAKER_02]: And what's the point then?

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, if it's like, I don't really care what decision I make, because I'm not bothered about the outcome, that's when he definitely shouldn't be playing whatever time it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: Or even playing games at all.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if you're not really bothered about the decisions it makes, there is no point.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, so with a question.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say what's what's your guy?

[SPEAKER_00]: What's your man?

[SPEAKER_00]: What how many games is sort of your rotation given that you had a very specific list?

[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, we started off with a few, uh, bolt action, Song of Ice and Fire, uh, uh, that was one, um, kill team was one, there's a few, it's probably five to seven games on the list.

[SPEAKER_02]: and and then board games as well because when we knip up to starbucks is more board game ones, but you know you already know that's this damage the game that we played the most, because it just kind of clipped he enjoyed it and that's pretty much predominantly play.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just predominantly a song of ice and fire now, nothing else.

[SPEAKER_02]: This game's a keep on we say, oh, I'd be good to play that and be good to play that, but [SPEAKER_02]: Because we know it and again this may be linked back to decision fatigue it's like we we both know a song of ice and fire now You know the rules.

[SPEAKER_02]: We know the structure.

[SPEAKER_02]: We know everything.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like we don't need to invest that energy and time in a new rule set I think we would eventually if we found it like a song of ice and fire was losing its shine But there's something about like that familiarity [SPEAKER_02]: But also still got room to grow.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're in that kind of a close surf in the wave, where it's like you kind of know it.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know what to expect, you know how it goes.

[SPEAKER_02]: But there's little nuances still because there's different units or different synergies or different factions that you play that keeps it interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not like just a formality of exactly what you'll do at that a certain times, but you know, 90% of the decisions are locked in or 90% of whatever you're going to do is locked in.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then the 10% is just the what you are doing at the table top of that time.

[SPEAKER_02]: You seem like getting to know a mission.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like a play mission, play missions that you've not played before, maybe three or four times.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that helps you with the decision fatigue because you're not having to waste that kind of mental space.

[SPEAKER_02]: thinking about things to make a decision on.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, oh, or rules, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, where you got a rule question.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you're like, oh, what happens if I roll a six year or you read out a piece on a card?

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, what does that mean to you?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, we've already had all those, we've already made all those decisions on how we want it to go, like, house tools, certain things, or agreed on certain wording and the rules.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we made those decisions, so all we need to do is just live that decision, does that kind of make sense?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like you're you're ripping the rewards off sticking with a game and you're like you're saying like I think every time you go to the robot Which is inevitable when you game, but like every time you go there, it's another little decision it's another little bit of mental energy and like how would you say that's how would you say that [SPEAKER_00]: And I know it's a different thing like sport versus gaming but like I play football on Monday night stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was going there on on Monday night like every week and it was like okay lads tonight we're doing lacrosse.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is the lacrosse rules and like the next week it's like so this is basketball.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is how basketball works and like [SPEAKER_00]: I just thought I know like I can't play football well but I know the I know the basic gesture of it so I could just turn up there and do it like I'm not thinking about it so what way am I kicking all those sometimes I guess some do watching me like wonder but yeah yeah you're right you're right and yeah it's uh [SPEAKER_02]: It's weird.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not something I've thought about too much.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's something that I've voiced obviously saying, like saying to that guy, like, I have these games already.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't want to invest any more money.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's a monetary thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it's like a kind of know the structure of these games because I played them before and I want to play those more.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of like getting a whole rid of a whole bunch of time and effort that you need to put into learning this stuff, like just making a decision, making a judgment on all those other things and it really helps.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, how do you do your like, again, I know you don't necessarily like start playing loads of new rule systems, but like, do you just learn the rules at the table or do you do about a pet?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, see, see, you work at an annual game.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, would you spend a few mornings or evenings just reading the rule book or like, how would you approach that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, man.

[SPEAKER_02]: I, I, it's like, I want to.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to make sure that I appreciate the effort that someone else goes to.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, so I want to play a game of me, I want to appreciate that effort by, you know, doing some homework.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's, you know, I think it's polite.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's the right thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it also does wind me up a little bit if I'm always having to be the steward of the game.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, I think I can, I can pay respects to my co-player and I can, [SPEAKER_02]: Thank my co-player by build up my knowledge by reading reading a book reading the rules not necessarily knowing it like the back of my hand But having a having a just having a rough a rough idea about what's going on So like reading a rule book before we meet yet definitely at noon watching a few back reports about our puts on on on the game Or like a how to play definitely doing that so that when we when we meet and when we decide to play It's like we've got a head start on it [SPEAKER_02]: I think that it's inefficient and a waste of time if you just both start and from scratch learn in a real set, I think it's just a big waste of time and honestly, unless that's what you're into or you don't know that you're playing that game before you meet.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean there's a lot of ground what you could do away from the table isn't that like if you're tubbing up um okay it's blog ball like what kind of dice do we use like if you're just completely starving from scratch it's just yeah it's a bad use of everyone's time isn't it so yeah I would say so I would say personally you know but not that I'm like you must do that I'm not like some sort of [SPEAKER_02]: game in Gestapo guy that if you haven't done that yet, cut it off and in a jail, but I just want to make sure that the time that we spend together is really well spent.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm also that research and like, you know, getting to know the flow of the game, I see it as, as work that have to do anyway.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if I can front load it, it means that I don't have to do it when we meet.

[SPEAKER_02]: We can we can get haven't fun faster.

[SPEAKER_02]: because, you know, I'm not Mr.

Hollywood, I'm pretty boring.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't really do too much during the week anyway.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, all instead of painting for an hour, I'll read a book for an hour, you know, instead of reading for an hour, I'll read a rule book for an hour.

[SPEAKER_02]: But also over multiple days, so it kind of goes in.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I want to say like I do like a little pop quiz like, you know, 20 questions on for us, great.

[SPEAKER_02]: But [SPEAKER_00]: You've got Joma Collector's phone number as well, I can't just imagine it's like 3 a.m.

[SPEAKER_00]: he's at his bed and you're like a Joma then we've got a point of contention on page 64.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was a spell of a stick joke, come on get a grip.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's like it's fine, I'm a night owl.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've got this.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, you the same though, like would you put in effort and like to set stuff up before you go and play?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm saying a tent out of the ice here because we've played a few games together online and I'm worried that you think I've done that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just that I'm stupid.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that I've not prepared.

[SPEAKER_02]: But you don't mind.

[SPEAKER_02]: You don't mind it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like a body system, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like I'll teach you that.

[SPEAKER_02]: But then it comes around and you'll teach me this.

[SPEAKER_02]: So Dan, snowman Dan from the paint on the east of the school, like he's really good for this, is that we'll teach each other stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it'll be like, what do you want to do on Wednesday night?

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'll be like, what have you been playing recently?

[SPEAKER_02]: And it was like, oh, I've been playing dice masters or I've been playing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh, great.

[SPEAKER_02]: Could you teach me that?

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, yeah, and I've probably, and then equally the flip side is, he'll say to me, like, what do you want to play a game?

[SPEAKER_02]: What do you want to play?

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh, I think I've played on dawn.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, oh, great.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've heard of that, but I never played it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Can you teach me?

[SPEAKER_02]: And so when you got that reciprocal agreement and understanding, that's not a problem.

[SPEAKER_02]: But there have been situations where, [SPEAKER_02]: I just feel like I'm just the rules guy, and I'll just go and play with Dan, like you'll sort you out, like he'll just basically do everything for you apart from roll the dice for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: You'll just say pick up that decent and roll it.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're looking for a four, and they have a great time, but I'm I'm having no K-time, but not the best time, because I just feel like I'm like the dad, and I feel like I'm like the game's master, whereas I want to feel like it's an equal, equal proposition, you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what about, I mean, say some of these less than and they really want, uh, they like the idea playing in the morning, but for one reason or another, that's just not possible.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's what, or, you know, other reasons.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the only opportunity that they're going to have as an evening, where they really don't feel up to it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lost or the way playing live, playing live.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right, so it's like, if you want to play live and know what's the play live with you in the morning, then yeah, the only option is that you didn't, but there's things like tabletop simulator.

[SPEAKER_02]: So tabletop simulator, that could potentially be something that you do because you could play someone on different times own, for example.

[SPEAKER_02]: because mornin in the UK, if you think about someone on maybe the west coast of America, or even just like central time, that'll be there even in, so you might have someone in America that wants to play on even in, and then you can hook up with them, and it's there even in but it's your mornin.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you're desperate to play on a mornin and you don't mind about playing live, that might be an option, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's assume then that he simply can't.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like that, that a heart, surgeon, and all the operations are seven days a week AEM, like they just can't.

[SPEAKER_00]: They can't do anything in the morning.

[SPEAKER_00]: But they can, like, they can get a local club at like, seven PM AEM.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't feel like, is it, is it just a case of don't bother or as of still ways that they could make it enjoyable, do you think?

[SPEAKER_00]: You've got, I think you'd have to have a kit.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I can't talk about everyone else.

[SPEAKER_02]: But if I have a little, a little sleepy, [SPEAKER_02]: When I get home from work, 40 minutes, I think I could go play of a night.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if I got, if I got home from work and have a shower and then have a little sleepy, I think I'll be okay playing at night.

[SPEAKER_02]: But with the situation I've got in the family and that can't really do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Can't really come over from work and be like, Hi family, I'm going to sleep now.

[SPEAKER_02]: One, they'd be too noisy, but two, that's just like, I've had these such shots.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then get up and every like, bye.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to play a game.

[SPEAKER_02]: Daddy's having an affair.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, just playing ward on east.

[SPEAKER_00]: You would, you would actually see, you would have none of it, rather than that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, [SPEAKER_00]: Even like if you saw about the games you were playing so if you picked something pretty quick that you know really well You think you think you could make it enjoy it not just bearable.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't want that but could you make it enjoyable?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just that we're table top war games.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that that's where that's why board games go But we'll get on to that in a second book with tables up war games that the time that it's likely to take It's inhibitive.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think you look at looking at three hours realistically, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I would say that maybe a short game, if I think about all the song advice and fire games, it's, it's three hours.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think you can, you can could it down if you really slick.

[SPEAKER_02]: But also, you want to experience stuff as well, like you don't just want to feel like you're blatting through stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like some tournament games that I see, I kind of wonder if they're actually enjoying the moment because they're just going to go in too fast through it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like just motoring through it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And are you just getting it done to get it done?

[SPEAKER_02]: Are you genuinely actually thinking about what you're doing here?

[SPEAKER_02]: Are you genuinely enjoying the two and fro of what should I do next?

[SPEAKER_02]: What could I do next?

[SPEAKER_02]: It kind of seems a little bit too matter of fact.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I guess that just happens when you're kind of...

[SPEAKER_02]: unconsciously competent in the game, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: But so you're looking at three hours, you know?

[SPEAKER_02]: So let's say you could cover seven, which is really a realistic start time.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's 10 o'clock, you know, seven, seven PM to 10 PM.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's pretty long time, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then there's like the, it must be always on your mind about getting tidy up, getting packed up, you know, getting home, what tomorrow, whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's just maybe me, but yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if that's different.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, no, but it was different.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, so it's like, I've met people.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't necessarily [SPEAKER_02]: want to talk too much about whether you're an introvert or extrovert.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think there's I don't think there's a definitive and it's just like a light switch that's either on or off.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you either fully introvert or fully extrovert and just because you're into introvert, I don't think that means that you just like sit on with a light soft looking at the wall.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I would say that I have more introvert tendencies.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so another reason why I don't like to play at night time is that social interaction in any form that it takes, I feel it takes me energy.

[SPEAKER_02]: And if I'm doing that at the end of the day, I've been socially interacting for all day.

[SPEAKER_02]: And a little bit like decision fatigue, it's like, I don't necessarily want to be Mr.

Happy, Mr.

Cherpy socialization, because I've been doing that all day.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like I need a little bit of solitude to recharge.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's part of it too about not wanting to play in the evenings is that it's not just an energy thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not just a decision for tea kind of thing or whatever, it's more like I've had enough social interaction today.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now I need the paint table and that'll recharge me as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, excellent.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, now I've been interested at that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I went into this not exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you've told me this before, but I didn't realize you were such a sort of morning gamer as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, it's not just me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a, I'm a aspiring morning gamer.

[SPEAKER_00]: Although I did them, I did play last Sunday morning with my wife played football on Sunday morning at late eight and that was good.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think we'll [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, Calam's commentary for a game and a couple of weeks, which will be good.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not like I'm not going to play, but I'd say, ah, some might be in thing about recently, but, like I say, beat myself up on a Friday night when I've watched Yellowstone instead of playing Kings of War or something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, uh, I've only got a couple of minutes left, uh, I just realised the time they had put.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ah, it's been, you know, good chat, any any kind of closing thoughts?

[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, I think that's just, you know, our thoughts on stuff, which is what we generally try to share in it, just this is my thoughts, this is your thoughts on those kind of things, and I think again, we kind of usually throw this in there, like, you know, whatever works for you is great, you know, for me, I want to play at that time, and I want to play these sorts of games, and I want to play with this sort of intent.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think if you just find a partner that's willing to kind of do that, and then it's always a good time, but the negative experiences are when you want something out of it, they want something completely different, and those things are against each other as opposed to a line, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks very much for listening to this episode of the tabletop miniature hobby podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you enjoy the show then please do share it with someone else you think might enjoy it too.

[SPEAKER_00]: And be sure to check out our discord community of like-minded hobbyists which you could find a bedroom battlefield.com forward slash discord.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd be great to see you in there.