[SPEAKER_02]: brought to you by BedroomBattlefube.com.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is the table top miniature movie podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about aesthetic, because I really did enjoy a while ago, and I'm sorry we didn't capture it at the time, but when you started to unpack your known team for Blubble, and you have any experiences with your known team.

[SPEAKER_00]: You seem to have made a piece of that now, the way.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that was maybe the Genesis or this, to be honest, like, so just to give the last step a bit of background if they're not, we don't really like it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't buy new games or shops, stuff, modern games or shops stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: It just doesn't appeal to me aesthetically, and I don't play any of their games until very recently when I got Blood Bowl, the new Blood Bowl and bought a team for it, the norms team.

[SPEAKER_02]: Why did you buy it?

[SPEAKER_02]: Why did you buy it?

[SPEAKER_02]: Why did I buy Blood Bowl?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: just took a real notion to have a self-contained board game and I liked it when I was young and I've heard that not a lot changed about it so yeah I thought I would get good game going on at the next one or so but a team for it and to be honest they are statistics I don't mind them now that they're all built and painted but I mean this is more of [SPEAKER_02]: I'm the hobby question rather than aesthetics I think, but building on was just utterly measurable.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was a terrible experience, like the way these are designed to be built.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just so fedly and I don't really understand what the thought process is.

[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, as for the aesthetic itself, [SPEAKER_02]: It's fine, it's just, it's not really in line with like the types of managers that I'm typically attracted to as a strong word, but you know what I mean, like the type of stuff that I like to collect and paint.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's interesting that there's this stuff to unpick there, like, I mean, I like the book or two, like I have not the set that you got like this, the new addition, second edition.

[SPEAKER_00]: Does that kind of make sense?

[SPEAKER_00]: You got one with the more fancy at auction.

[SPEAKER_00]: and the more fancy humans, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's like a second edition of the new edition, which is like got fancy models in it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I looked at that, and I was like, the models seem to fiddly.

[SPEAKER_00]: They seem like there's too much stuff that's going to snap off.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I got like the first edition of the new edition.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I quite like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: The models in that one, because the models are still quite robust, but interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Which is interesting to you talk about that about [SPEAKER_00]: the design principles like so you got like a small gnome.

[SPEAKER_00]: So how many pieces did each small gnome come in?

[SPEAKER_00]: Typically.

[SPEAKER_02]: It could have been, I mean it was a while ago now and I've deleted it from my memory but you could have been from eight or nine pieces for this very small manager and there was one [SPEAKER_02]: I was just going to say there was only one way really to build up with the exception, like this face on that face, like it was the same pose in that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I just, I do not understand the thought process behind it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's just, it's different in it.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're going to talk about athletic going to go out of hobby.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's neither better nor worse.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just different.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the kind of the roadblocks that you've bumped into about them being really fiddly, someone else might have thought, oh, this is amazing because it's a little bit like a Lego puzzle or it's a little bit like a jigsaw or, you know, some people might really like that fidelity, that little motor movements and motor skills that you need to specifically put this place in one part, like some people might like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: That kind of makes sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: But why do you think they do that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you think, what do you think they design principle is to make?

[SPEAKER_00]: the small fiddly part.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what do you think, what do you think they're trying to do?

[SPEAKER_02]: I honestly have no answer to that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I thought about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what?

[SPEAKER_02]: Why is he doing this?

[SPEAKER_02]: I honestly don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: And most of them, they're obviously has to be a reason for it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it helps with the design to make certain features more pronounced.

[SPEAKER_00]: Does that sense so?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: You might have, you might have, like, safe tick like a head.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it might just have, if you think about the beard and the nose, and maybe the tongue sticking out.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the first piece might have the nose and then a big gap and then the tongue sticking out and then you put the beard over the top and like so the mouth hold of the beard goes over the tongue so and now allows that tongue to be more pronounced and the sculpt of the tongue is enables it to be more you know visible more pronounced and kind of separated from it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think in terms of making that individual model [SPEAKER_00]: like more vivid and more pronounced and parts of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think in terms of that design, I think it's making the more fiddly parts is really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: But in terms of the monopause, the monopause, the menopause, the monopause nature.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't enjoy the [SPEAKER_00]: their monopose at all really, because if I got a known team and you got a known team, there's no difference, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: My nones will look exactly the same as your nones.

[SPEAKER_00]: And for me personally, like I said before, it's neither better nor worse, but I don't enjoy them monopose nature of the way things have gone, because I want my known team to be my known team.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think with with all the little bits and the eight or nine different bits for one little known because we're not talking about a giant guy here.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about just a gnome.

[SPEAKER_00]: How high would you say the army be six centimeters high?

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm looking over like I've got [SPEAKER_02]: I've got a lot of like, traditional, twenty mills stuff and they're smaller than your standard human in twenty mills.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yes, it's a small manager.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, so it's like with those all those individual component parts, it makes it significantly harder to kit bash and can bash just something that people like a lot of people like to do, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because it, and I totally get that because you're creating your, you're using this as a base, using that model as a base and you're creating your own, your own known teams.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think in terms of just, [SPEAKER_00]: the designing of that individual monopose miniature, that those design principles really are great.

[SPEAKER_00]: Once you get the hang of building those little fiddly models, it makes for a better individual model, but I don't think it made for me, it doesn't make for a better individual model, because it's just standard thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know, I wouldn't say, I think there are amazingly designed for what they are.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think people that design them work really, really hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think they do an excellent job.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm not the biggest fan of the over-engineered individual monopose miniature.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just, that doesn't really do much for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, it's a strange one, isn't it?

[SPEAKER_00]: It seems to, I don't know, over-engineered sounds, perhaps a bit.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, I mean, I think if I was a good painter, like I'm a functional get done painter and enjoy it and you know, I get done pretty quickly.

[SPEAKER_02]: But if I was a really good painter like border non artist level, [SPEAKER_02]: I would want less detailed managers because I would want more room to you know to create things myself with the brush rather than have like every single details already accounted for and of course you paint the details but you're kind of back to an economy and like you're saying it's just going to look the same as some of the houses even with a different paint job so I would want less detail because then I would feel that I could do more with the brush back and I was worried about that [SPEAKER_00]: I really like people that sculpt the own stuff with green stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if I take some like a world war two tank, for example, is it'll get like a world war two tank, but then they'll sculpt, you know, tops and different storage items like Jerry cans or stuff that they've looted or like a case of wine, like a crate of wine or beer, like a deck chair or like a rocking chair and they'll like they'll sculpt this stuff and attach it to the tank and it makes that that model.

[SPEAKER_00]: their own and it makes their own little story.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really like those things.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I just think that when everything's kind of done for you because even if you take like a space marine, it's getting to the point where all of the grenades or pouches and all that stuff is pre sculpted onto the miniature.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's just no room for your own individual creativity or you can still probably do it, but it's significantly harder to do that individual kind of, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: Making them your own is very, very difficult to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think for me person, like I said, gone, keep on going back to this.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's really important.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that, you know, that's not for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's neither better nor worse, but it's just, just don't find it, it's for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I even, even from when I first started getting involved in the hobby, there was, there was a lot of [SPEAKER_00]: individual changes that you could make to a squad of space Marines.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because you've got a whole bunch of stuff that you could put onto them.

[SPEAKER_00]: You could put the pouches.

[SPEAKER_00]: You could put the grenades.

[SPEAKER_00]: You could put like they're even the, you know, the purity seals, which is like they're kind of waxed seal with a bit of paper coming off.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You could get a whole but you get a whole bunch of that on the sprue that you could make it you run through those things.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think even even now it ones that I've seen recently, I'm not bought one for a long time.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think even that's reduced to the point where it's just like, no, if you buy a box of ten, [SPEAKER_00]: then they all look like this pretty much apart from a few potential weapons options.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah and what makes me laugh about this whole thing as well as like if, say I was out with my wife and we somehow stumbled across a game's workshop like a time warp game's workshop from like ninety five.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're like the display case and the manager, the display case and the window water managers from ninety ninety five.

[SPEAKER_02]: That'd be at that window I'd be like [SPEAKER_02]: look at that, look at that, that's amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like if we found, you know, a game's workshop today, and I looked in the window, I'd find myself saying, I don't really like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Don't like to look at that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, it's a horror.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just exactly the just the same little toys.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just like any hobby like a goal for all pickup to clubs that are ostensibly the same to me and be like, oh, this is a shocker.

[SPEAKER_02]: Where is this is like the best club?

[SPEAKER_02]: This could happen.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this would.

[SPEAKER_00]: This word is not made out of words.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's the reason?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm not supporting.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's really really important to note is that if you enjoy it.

[SPEAKER_00]: and you dig it or that's, that's what makes the hobby amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to hear somebody who talks about the thing, you know, the nom team that I've just just loved the nom team.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to hear the reasons and the thoughts of why they think that nom team is amazing because there's no doubt people do think it's amazing and there's no doubt that people have made a really, really great job of painting them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then it may be the risk [SPEAKER_00]: people around that have found ways to change them and adapt them and, you know, kit-bash them or modify them in some way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's the thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just that you with that moment in time didn't particularly enjoy it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like one of the things for me that I really, when I really valued when I started [SPEAKER_00]: When I was starting to get into building GW models was the plastic cement that I used is that I think it's a rebel they do this like a rebel do this cement which is like a kind of plastic a blue plastic container like a yellow live but it's got like a long [SPEAKER_00]: kind of metal, very very small metal tube, like a probiscus, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then that really helps to really target the plastic cement where it needs to go.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to put like a little dot of plastic cement on, whereas before I had like a kind of a glass bottle with like a screw top lid, and then attached the screw top lid was a brush to apply the plastic cement, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And that was just too unwieldy.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was just too easy to put too much [SPEAKER_00]: polystyrene plastic cement onto onto the model, then it'll start getting all rough.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that really helped.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like having the right tools and having the right experience to kind of put those little fiddly bits together, you know, that's a hobby, I'll be in itself really, that kind of makes sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, man, I mean, I'm all about making stuff your own.

[SPEAKER_00]: So when I see the kind of these monoposed units, it doesn't really do much for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: to be honest, because I like to try and make them different or unique or make them my own, which is bad.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's really important.

[SPEAKER_00]: The creativity that you bring to your projects is that's that's interesting for me, like knowing how what people do, how people change it, what sort of different craft skills and hobby skills they use to adapt them.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's something I find interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't find it interesting to go to a liberal tournament and see five different nom teams and see [SPEAKER_00]: the only difference is the color of the hat in the beard.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that much from that.

[SPEAKER_02]: On the build front as well, I think Ternick Stenet is a blog ball problem because when I bought blog ball like a chapter, my mother, brother and Lonnie's friend, so one of them took the old team and one of them took the human team and they're both like pretty regular [SPEAKER_02]: hobbyists in terms of, like, for decaying that, they modern the super modern stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: So they buy and build a lot of that and paint a lot of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And both of them said that they're respected, bloodboltings that they were a nightmare.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I think for some weird reason, it seems to be a bloodbolting problem with the assembly.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think it's a crust, I think it's a crust, a crust DW from my experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm put together right to sigma models, put together forty cave models recently.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, semi recently, it's a crust, the company to be honest, you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's hard to argue with what they do because, you know, they keep on making hundreds of millions of pounds worth of profit, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think we're maybe the exception to the norm as opposed to the norm.

[UNKNOWN]: Probably would say.

[SPEAKER_02]: What about like tapping on it's head if we think about like gamers like myself obviously myself and folks you know even older if that's imaginable but like you know this this appeal of the big lump of metal like the the single lump of metal you know everything's carved into that and therefore the pose is quite limited but also [SPEAKER_02]: you know, people who say words like characterful.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, so I wonder what is in that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is that pure nostalgia or something deeper going on there?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of it is just, you say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like eighties music would be a good example.

[SPEAKER_00]: I still really enjoy eighties music and I think it's really, really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's probably because [SPEAKER_00]: at the time that I was getting into music and then nostalgia that some of those songs kind of bring, you know, hours and holiday impressed that in when that was done.

[SPEAKER_00]: But something like that, you know, so I think a lot of it is just when you enter the hobby and the sort of stuff that you really enjoy when you enter the hobby.

[SPEAKER_00]: So people swear by metal, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you a metal model guy?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I don't have never really looked into the nuances or understood the nuances.

[SPEAKER_02]: To me, metals, metal, but yeah, metal is a good blanket term for what I tend to own.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so people swear, but I don't really even have the newer metal models from like Corbus Belly, which is the [SPEAKER_00]: The Corvus Belly vape crossing was a really crunchy skirmish rule set.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a kind of like a futuristic skirmish game by Corvus Belly and Corvus Belly up one of the [SPEAKER_00]: kind of leaders in terms of still producing metal minis and really smooth and really nice and really characterful but sometimes some reason it was like metal miles they never done it for me and some people swear by them and that's again that's totally fine some people really swear by resin minis some people like the combination of it between metal and plastic and I think I remember somebody showed me the the space green set that they got where it was like a kind of plastic body [SPEAKER_00]: No, a metal body with like plastic appendages that you could kind of find.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, it was plastic thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's just individual taste, but I think the fact that the thing still exists is pretty cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some people are really curious in terms of, you know, has to be metal.

[SPEAKER_00]: It has to be traditionally made or that kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just, I don't know, like, and that's the thing, there's no right or wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no set way of doing things and there's no reason for us to quantify or define what's right or wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just for individual.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think metal tends to be cheaper from what I've seen, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: That might be a key factor.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that old like what's what's the what's the weird owned like it's it's cheaper to make the mail.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it's more expensive to set up to make the plastic but then it's cheaper to make the plastic one for others.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, thank you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, generally speaking, the the tooling of the mold.

[SPEAKER_00]: for plastic is significantly more, but it lasts a lot longer.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, whereas their metal moulds have been very fortunate to see it happen and been involved in it and mess around a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, the moulds for the metal and residents, they don't have the same shelf life.

[SPEAKER_00]: They have a deteriorary quicker and you have to then make it again.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, yeah, it's interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I'd be interested to know, [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I've just said, we can't really quantify it and can't really define it, but I'd like to know why people swear by metal and and stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because you remember that, I think you have one, did you have one recently?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like the, um, the knurgle kind of big knurgle guy has made out of metal.

[SPEAKER_00]: And someone said me a dread, a dread not like a space marine dread not a while ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was like trip with your metal.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's heavy.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably like about.

[SPEAKER_00]: three hundred four dead grams with a just meter of metal away.

[SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, don't care what they're made of, it's the aesthetics for me, and it just so happens that the aesthetics are like tend to be made in metal.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you could get them in plastic, it wouldn't bother me in this lightest.

[SPEAKER_02]: There is a satisfaction of the weight of them.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's special when you're gaming, although that comes with the trade-off that, like if you even knock the miniature a tiny little bit, roll a dice against it, you get a big chip on it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what a tend to do with it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was just going to say what I tend to do with the plastic stuff, include my norms, it's just glue like two penses underneath, so read the kids piggy bank, decolor, and hair retains money and just glue them at the bottom of the bases and that gives them a bit more weight.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I do that in my flint of worst stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: So flint was like fifteen millimeter World War II.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I do that with my tanks, my flint's war tanks are put like put some weights inside the hole of the tank.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's got a bit more heft.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that's a key thing for me with metal is that how bendy it is, you know, if you got a sword, it's quite bendy, and then you get a super crazy fucking careful to run straight in it back out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then also, yeah, the chips and stuff like that, I don't really enjoy that.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the problem that never really have a plastic at all, is that it's never, I never really, I never really varnish stuff to be honest.

[SPEAKER_00]: never really felt the need to.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've kind of had my eyes on it and I've got some matte varnish, got some satin varnish, but I've never really had the need to use it when I'm putting in plastic minis and things like that, but I think maybe like you talk about the nostalgia, I don't know if that comes from the material that's being used or whether it comes from just the the aesthetic of the sculpt and I think there's a big difference between like traditionally sculpted [SPEAKER_00]: And then maybe three D or electronic, electronically kind of sculpted.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a different with the difference with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then it's also like just the idea of like if you take a man or and and in GW didn't create or they they were maybe one of the first companies to kind of [SPEAKER_00]: personify them in a mini form, but it seemed to be like the fantasy set and an even sci-fi set and we're a little bit more tongue-in-cheek and a little bit more whimsical where now it seems to be a lot a lot more serious, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot, it's a lot more, you know, I don't know, like it seemed to be like a better idea of an alt as quite comical.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've got the audience quite calm.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've got to still exist in some settings.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm neagling is still quite comical, but it seems to be like it takes itself a lot more seriously now, which I tend to not like that as much.

[SPEAKER_00]: I tend to more prefer there.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not truly silly or comical is it, but it's definitely got more of those areas, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_02]: And some of you are saying that it just made me think as well, like the, you know, we think about the materials, managers are made, but I think also there's a factor of the packaging, again, like Harkin back to [SPEAKER_02]: You know, my young days going at games workshop, I had the same experience, bringing your lead last summer, going at the foundry shop with the traditional blister pack with, you know, it's just big lump to metal and you could see the figures.

[SPEAKER_02]: We crucially, you don't see them painted.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not looking at box art, but you can see, you know, maybe the money's in, and two or three different bits at most.

[SPEAKER_02]: but you're looking at that and I think you're brain and again this might just be nostalgia talking but your brain is looking at that just unpainted bit of metal or lead and thinking what you're going to do with it where is if you walk into games workshop now it's a lovely beautiful box you know you don't even see the screws in there you obviously have to build them all and you've got this box out on the front and it's almost [SPEAKER_02]: serving you up, like here's what you're getting, whereas when you're looking in the blister packs, it's I think it's more of that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Here's what I'm going to create with this.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know if you was more involved, but again, that could just be an old man rambling about how to think about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it opened this.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, but this is good and bad bit to that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I remember when I was making my first space-free name, like when I first started the hobby, [SPEAKER_00]: I'd you quite appreciate the bucks are and I quite appreciate it YouTube and I quite appreciate it following that because it kind of gave you where it gave you step-in stones to I think I got better quicker because of that does that make sense?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but but now haven't seen both sides of the coin I very much prefer the [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I mean, like, like, with my podcast, I mean, I was specifically underlining and putting it in, in, in bold like mine.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're, you're very different and that's, that's awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to listen to anybody else.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to, I don't, I want to make my own way.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to forge my own path.

[SPEAKER_00]: Even if that path is terrible compared to other people, I want to do that myself because that, that is itself.

[SPEAKER_00]: is what makes it interesting to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm with you with the blister pack is that I don't want to see bucks are I don't want to I don't want to see it in that I want to make my own relationship with it even if I make some very basic errors that somebody goes oh actually and I noticed this field that just the other couple of weeks ago actually is that I was painting a miniature and it had he had trousers on and then he had boots [SPEAKER_00]: And then there was a bit of the top of his boot where I was like, I don't know if that's his trouser going over the boot or whether that's like a turn back on his boots.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that going to make sense?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I painted it as a turn back on his boot.

[SPEAKER_00]: So his boots went higher, but then he'd folded him down.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I just kind of shared it on a reddit, Dan Pav, and someone was like, oh, you've painted it wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's not boot.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's trousers that goes over boot.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, as like, okay, great.

[SPEAKER_00]: If that's what you see as awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's boot.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's boot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like when it's instant, and I like me, you'll be getting my burp, you're arse, I'm going to say you finished that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, but I like making my own relationship with stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what's fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you think about writing an essay, like, once you've written the essay, the essay's worthless.

[SPEAKER_00]: What has value is, is the thought, the intent, the process and the journey that you go through whilst writing.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of, I kind of like see that the same with minis that I paint and games that I play, is that once I've finished the mini, [SPEAKER_00]: It's not worthless because I'm going to use it for a game and I'm going to appreciate it and it's done.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the process of deciding what color is to do to use the process of deciding what is that belt?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that still boot?

[SPEAKER_00]: All that stuff is that's where the value lies for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so now having followed bucks are and having tried to get the minis as close to the bucks are as possible.

[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate that because I think it helped me to learn.

[SPEAKER_00]: It helped me to kind of develop my craft.

[SPEAKER_00]: But also now, I haven't seen both sides of the coin.

[SPEAKER_00]: I steer away from that because it's like, I want to find my own way.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's like extra value, extra hidden value in the hobby where it's like making my own relationship with this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you think about like a, like a Gretchen, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You remember that?

[SPEAKER_00]: And the second edition of a Forty Kay, that was the first time I've done this.

[SPEAKER_00]: You've got four of those same guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's like how like what color is the case in on is on his weapon and you're going to have the same case, color case in for all of them or you're going to do different color cases for each squad or something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: That that that thought is something that I really value and just to dismiss that and follow box up.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not really into that so much, but I totally get why people would appreciate that because I've seen that side of the hobby too.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm, I did keep the box for the norms, not to copy it, for say, but just because I got to sit and about some of the manager and I was like, what is this bet?

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't really know what this is supposed to be, so I helped about just looking at the forwards.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I get out of what was going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: But just going back to the G do we think, again, not trying to be a G or hate.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there are amazing, I think there are amazing, but the ultimate thing for me is it costs more than I want to pay.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what it comes down to fundamentally.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I've talked to you about this before.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was when the dungeon bowl came out.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's version of Blood Bowl, which is based on the ground and the dungeons.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're playing the same game, but they're playing it inside on the ground.

[SPEAKER_00]: that that whenever that came out whatever year that was and how I was much that cost that's when GW went out of casual purchase for me and and so I am I literally have not bought anything or hardly anything since since that got released because it's it's just more than I'm willing to pay [SPEAKER_00]: for some plastic dudes now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Which is a shame, because sometimes you see some models, you think, wow, they look really, really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there was some M con guys, like some sci-fi, so they're four EK con guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they just, they looked really good, but it's all the little pebbles that started falling down the mountain to cause an avalanche where I'm just not going to interact with it because it's been monopos.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's the weirdly putting it together.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's that I'm not really the biggest fan of the rules set and I'm having to pay a premium for that, which is, you know, it's a shame, I guess, but there's so many other kind of minis [SPEAKER_00]: around and companies around that have got a better overall balance, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You say when you make an attack, people that make tanks, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They talk about speed.

[SPEAKER_00]: They talk about survivability and they talk about leafality.

[SPEAKER_00]: So speed, leafality, survivability and reliability.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like those are the kind of key design principles for making a tank.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you kind of think about the, you know, all those things combined with GW, it's like, [SPEAKER_00]: is it cheap?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, which is not necessarily a problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it am I able to kind of create something cool with it, though?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it a really good minutes when you put it together?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, generally is, but there's just not enough boxes that are tick to make me want to go in that direction.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's many more different companies that are around it.

[SPEAKER_00]: In my opinion, they get more of that balance between those kind of design principles like the survivability, the leafality, et cetera, et cetera.

[SPEAKER_02]: Any more, I see on their side, do you think we're, do you think we've solved it?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the thing a little bit overriding thing is, is that the fact that we can talk about that for a period of time and that some people will be sitting there going, what a bunch of shite.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's completely wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what makes it amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Does that kind of makes sense?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like that the hobby is so diverse.

[SPEAKER_00]: that you could easily find lots of people that would talk to you about nooms and talk about why they fucking love them so much.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I really enjoy the hobby.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think more of us should be like, because what I think are quite open minded and we're talking about something that we don't particularly like or but don't particularly enjoy.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think you could find an equal or more amount of people that would be like, no, you're wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I love that.

[SPEAKER_00]: The nose are amazing because of this, nose are amazing because of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like listening to those people.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that you can have totally opposing views on a certain thing hopefully coexist and appreciate that that's what's amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the thing with aesthetic is like one of the first things to said was beauties in the eye of the holder that this very much that the fact that [SPEAKER_00]: that we can just have this chat and the fact that they do exist, we are neither right nor wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: We just have an opinion and I think the more a different opinion that people can have, that is the better, you know, it's amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So have you actually played football yet?

[SPEAKER_02]: Only solo to try and figure out the rules.

[SPEAKER_02]: So the plan is once we get into the darker nights because we're actually getting some decent light weather here at the moment.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, head then at the autumn and winter.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm hopeful that my wife might entertain me for a game or two.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like I said, my brother-in-law and his power have a team as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if they are getting those painted up then I will have opponents.

[SPEAKER_02]: I like the sound of the sevens so you can play it you probably know that's already but you can place it on a side so smaller patch and just seems to be quicker more streamlined.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's not to say I don't want to try elevens but I'm also conscious of the time and I've heard that like a game of load bulk it go on for quite a few hours.

[SPEAKER_02]: So [SPEAKER_02]: It's sevens might just suit me better.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like when you played it back the day, were you, were you full elevens or sevens or all?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I still play still play regularly.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just still have it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's good.

[SPEAKER_00]: I definitely found that it takes a crazy amount of time to be honest.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really?

[SPEAKER_00]: How about just me, might just be the games that I've played and push really good and like it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there's some people talk about, I think we've talked about this about how we've presumed that games that are released now are better, more evolved, you know, more polished.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then next thing I think that's always a case.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think a good game is a good game, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think Blue Gold, Blue Gold is just a really good game.

[SPEAKER_00]: What I like about it is how you have to plan out your turn because whenever you fail something that's your turn over, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So the light, if we've got [SPEAKER_00]: So someone that's completely doesn't know blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, [SPEAKER_00]: And so you've really got to think about what activation.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if it's my turn, I will do an activation.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if I pass that, I'll get to do another one.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if I pass that, I'll get to do another one until either all my plays of an activated or more likely, I fail one.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if I got like a little human guy, an offensive line guy, and he wants to kind of [SPEAKER_00]: get past an alt guy so that he can make a run to receive a pass later on.

[SPEAKER_00]: Every individual's got like a kind of an area of kind of awareness.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if I try and run past you, if I go within one square of you, you'll have not chooses maybe grab me and drag me down.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what you might want to do is you might have one of your offensive linemen kind of grapple with an alt guy, not that alt guy, guy down so that then your runner can just run past him without getting grabbed by the ankles he goes by.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you might think, yeah, okay, so action one, offensive lineman, punches the orc in a face, takes him, knocks him now, takes him down, then the little fast guy can run past him, great sans fantastic.

[SPEAKER_00]: So then you kind of do like a little check, and then the orc guy just kind of laughs in your offensive lineman's face, knocks in his ass, and then your turn's over.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that I really like that dynamic thing game.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't really remember how long the games take, but that's a positive thing because I've never really been sitting looking at my watch or stuck in my guns thinking this is taking a long time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some of them in the fast, some of them in less fast.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some of them do get a little frustrating at times, especially if you're playing against teams that dominate you physically, because I tend to play humans, because the people that I was playing against prefer to play orcs, because I only have those two teams out of the star set, so they're all to stronger.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I get a lot of guys in the medical bay, because there's like a little medical bay at the side, if they get knocked out or injured or wheeled off the field.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just a good game.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a really good game.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because imagine you're going to start playing it more, as you kind of get to what winter?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't want to be inside playing games at the moment.

[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I want to get to know if one week is summer.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, uh, but yeah, I look and look ahead to one out for him.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wish you try on a table top familiar.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that'd be cool, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: That'd be very good.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's actually a video game.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure if you got like, uh, [SPEAKER_00]: a handheld game system.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's probably consoles or it might, but you can actually get Blubball like a video game.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty good.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's on the third edition of Blubball.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I've got Blubball too.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a pretty much a fair representation of the actual board game as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty good.

[SPEAKER_00]: But what about all the game stuff?

[SPEAKER_00]: Since we last spoke, have you played anything else?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so funnily enough, I think it was like the day or the couple of days after you had calum, aka Dr.

Spock on the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: We had actually had come over and we'd been playing my solo concert, my solo co-op concert, which I'm pretty happy with, so we got a game of that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Really enjoyed that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I've been getting a decent amount of paint done as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: After I finished the Bloodbolt team, [SPEAKER_02]: I got back to some of my fifteen mm make up.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm painting up a chaos army for hobgoblin.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what about that?

[SPEAKER_02]: And then I've got a couple of wee palette cleansers on the go at the moment just to cut a little chaos guys a little fog and chaos warrior.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then I'm going to do some burrows and badgers.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm trying for more pick animals like rabbits here.

[SPEAKER_02]: So those are always really nice miniatures to paint.

[SPEAKER_02]: What about yourself?

[SPEAKER_00]: She's not full tableta.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't play like, you know, rank and flank games or anything that's mass battle.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I probably wouldn't play skirmish games other than things that I know she would like, like we played Frost Grave.

[SPEAKER_00]: So as your wife ever shown any interest, or do you want to keep some people want to keep it separate?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, because that's my hobby.

[SPEAKER_00]: I go and do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You go and do this and I go and do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, would you want it to play games?

[SPEAKER_00]: So you asked David, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we've played stuff in the past.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think she'll human be a blood ball, but I am always got like, she should well play a game, but I might be overthinking it, but I am always like, at the back of my mind, I'm like, she's just humoring you here.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can't really like go to that.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's a wedding day, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: and every night ever since.

[SPEAKER_02]: One thing that has been gone on recently, I've got this old pathfinder dungeon map thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like a cardboard, you know, a little tunnels and dungeon rooms and stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: But we got all she's like, she'll before at the end of this month and she's almost kinetic and interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the managers I've got came about in the fact that I'm painting.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I've started to let her play with them.

[SPEAKER_02]: This little ma, and I've got the managers from Dungeon Sagat, the man-tick managers.

[SPEAKER_02]: So they're often they're all painted, but I'm not overly worried about them.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, they're not like ma.

[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of ma, metal ones that I've spent a lot more time on or spent more money on.

[SPEAKER_02]: But she's very careful with the men who, so what she likes to do is we've got all the [SPEAKER_02]: the dungeon scenery, you know, it's like bookcases and tables, and that's what she likes to just set up the dungeon, all the furniture, and then she likes to put everyone in different rooms and just save what they're doing and stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just sat and watched her and sometimes I went away and done some men, trusted, they're not to break anything and then touch with you.

[SPEAKER_02]: She hasn't, so it's cool that she's taking a wee interest.

[SPEAKER_02]: There will just, we'll just see how it goes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, my daughter's getting super into games too, like I'm at the point now she's so she's eight.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I've started to encourage you to read rule sets and be like, she's like, can we play this?

[SPEAKER_00]: And like, yeah, yeah, okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you have a quick look at it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Have a quick look at the rule book.

[SPEAKER_00]: Try and set it up as best you can.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then if you hit a dead end, give me a shout.

[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas I started when my daughter was forced, it's like a four year fucking program, a indoctrination.

[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas like we would do the same thing, I've served some minis in a set up an area and it'd be like, okay, what do you want this guy to do?

[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, I want this guy to run over there and he's like, okay, how do we, how do we figure out how fast he can go?

[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, oh, he just goes, and then that's what it started.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then it started like, you know, to be like, okay, well, [SPEAKER_00]: is this guy faster than that guy or slower?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so she was starting to like create those rules herself in her head and we started using dice.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want this guy to save the princess.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, well, how do we decide if the princess is saved or not?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's when we started, you know, we, if you time to do like rock paper scissors, it's like, I'm the bad guy and I've stolen the princess.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it kidnapped the princess and [SPEAKER_00]: And this or the princess is trying to save her or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, so rock paper scissors, we rock paper scissors, you save her.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, all that kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's really fun seeing how she's starting to create rules to see what happens within games, if that kind of makes sense without the actual rules set.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's got to be fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, as you kind of, you know, speak to a lot of rule designers, a lot of rule designers kind of say similar things where it's like, don't really have a set design mentality or ethos.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just kind of like, I think about what the intent of the game is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll just find something that is fit the purpose in terms of like, this is how it wants to feel.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this is the dynamic, this is the thing that I'll use to kind of make that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully your daughter starts to enjoy playing games and like that's what I found my daughter is that if she doesn't enjoy it, we just don't play it.

[SPEAKER_00]: If the game becomes this log, just put it away.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because it was a point.

[SPEAKER_00]: The whole point is that it should be joyful, it should be great, it should be interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we played Bergel Bros a few days ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so the general general just about game is that you're trying to crack safe to get loot on three different floors of a building.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the aim of the game is to crack the safe on each floor, the three floors, and then get to the roof and escape on the roof.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we set it up, and then there's a few rules that she didn't get in or just didn't like.

[SPEAKER_00]: So just the house rule that was like, what do you think we should do with this?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, and that's the fact that we weren't playing the exact game.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter.

[SPEAKER_00]: We had some fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then what we actually did at the end of it is that we played a couple of games.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I'd have sent a video of YouTube of how to play it properly.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then we discussed it like we discussed and sounds like proper formal, set down a little tech.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then I was like, I watched a video and actually watched a video at a different time.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, did we play it right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And just like, yeah, yeah, we played it pretty much right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, what was different?

[SPEAKER_00]: And she was able to tell me what a couple of things that we didn't do, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, well, what are we going to do next time where we're going to play how we played it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or do you think might change it?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's just that discourse of just, you know, just trying to have some fun using the game as a framework, but be going out that framework whenever it was appropriate, sticking with the framework.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was just just pretty cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully, man, nearer.com, continues to enjoy it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But keeping the joy and keeping the creativity is something that's really important.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was laughing there when you were saying, like, let her set up and show you if you need to help, like, to see opposite here, like, how to set up and show my daughter if I need to help.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just, you know, there's a rule in page two hundred and sixty of the copy key rule book.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if I was a lot to be said, a lot to be said, just making your own relationship, I think it kind of ties up a conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I have no limited time.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's one thing that I would encourage anyone, not the way, like, stages of the hobby or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just like, there's no, there's no right or wrong, really?

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no, there's no right thing to make minis out of.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no right company.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no right price.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no right rules.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no right games.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, if you're having fun with it and you enjoy that sort of thing, that the same easings just do, just do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, if anyone's spending any time within this hobby, that's what makes it pretty cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: So as suppose as we get wrapped up, like what's coming down the troops, paint all the many towers you've got by my old stone episode coming up, haven't you?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, two, fifty, right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're in a couple of weeks episodes, two, fifty is coming out.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of episodes, a lot of stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought I'd go back to earlier, what I said earlier, and it shows that I'd never think too much about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, two, fifty's good or whatever, but it's not some sort of, it's just a number in it, really.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's nice to think back as like this, two hundred and there's more, actually more than that, because if you want a official episode that I've done, [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, to have met that many people and the vast, vast majority of those people are still taught to on a regular basis.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's really nice.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just nice to have had that many conversations with people, you know, just to met that many people.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because a lot of people, as I think about this here, it's not that you're under fifty separate people.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's people that bid on two or three times.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just nice to have had that amount of conversations with different people within the hobby, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what are you doing for two-fifty?

[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to record that naked?

[SPEAKER_02]: Seeing as it's just an audio show anyway.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've got a lot that clothes for one.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm going to put some clothes.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I just get in people to try and contribute.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what would be amazing is that I kind of put a few questions together about the questions that link us together.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what do we enjoy about the hobby?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is there any particular episodes that we've listened to in the past that we like?

[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, how did we encounter paint on the minis?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's three questions and encouraging people to kind of record an answer to some or all of those.

[SPEAKER_00]: And just so you can be part of it if that kind of makes sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's a lot of people that listen on a regular basis, there's people that reach out and speak to me about episodes that they like to stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But just to be able to give people an opportunity to hear themselves on a show.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what we want to do for the tune at Fifty of One, really, because [SPEAKER_00]: before I started this I would listen to certain shows or listen to podcasts and just you kind of think that it's very technical or it's beyond you or you know it takes you know all this stuff so just given people all these opportunity just to hear themselves on a show and I'll do all the heavy lifting I'll do all the hard work in the background all you need to do is literally record your voice and send it to me and and I'll put it on the podcast that that's I think that's pretty nice [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not going to appeal to everybody, but just if someone gets the opportunity to just come out and show us that that's pretty cool, I think.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I can grasp on getting to such a high number.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was also with our big hiatus, wasn't that?

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's a backhanded way of saying it could have been more.

[SPEAKER_00]: I never made you skate.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're always sticking a bit in my eyes.

[SPEAKER_00]: People think it's the way around people think that I'm always taking a miffy out.

[SPEAKER_00]: You've got my, my taking a miffy is quite good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nature and tug and cheek, whereas yours is quite skated in like a still effort.

[SPEAKER_00]: In the kidneys.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, so it wasn't with that hiatus, we're just getting a lot more jaded about certain things and you'd internet being terrible and obviously having a young family and things like that, it was kind of like, just, again, going back to what we said about my daughter playing a game, it's just like, if it's not fun, if you're not having fun, don't do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, don't have to keep on doing all this stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: if you just not really feeling at that moment in time, it's much better because when stuff is under pressure and when you force things, that's when things tend to break.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's been a really nice kind of comment back to it and kind of get a decent run.

[SPEAKER_00]: I forget how many individual shows I've done in this latest run, but it's probably over twenty at this moment in time, probably over twenty at this moment in time.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just nice, I mean, yeah, just good.

[SPEAKER_00]: magic.

[SPEAKER_00]: What about your show?

[SPEAKER_00]: Just do me round.

[SPEAKER_02]: What's coming at the ears?

[SPEAKER_02]: So I mentioned to you that I'm going to be I'm going to be republishing some older episodes.

[SPEAKER_02]: So the show is four years old now.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you know that means that a lot of new listeners have joined over that time and not everyone goes back lessons to the back house.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a few conversations from back in those holidays of twenty twenty one and twenty two that you know even if you did hear them at the time and you are literally recorded on like listening back to some of them it's like you know hearing a new episode there's a lot of how you stood in there so once a month I'm going to do I'm calling it a re-roll so there's going to be a re-roll once a month and we're just going to yeah what was the metaphor you used like just making sausages basically [SPEAKER_02]: It's feeding the floor and eating sausages.

[SPEAKER_02]: Haggas.

[SPEAKER_00]: This steak's a week old.

[SPEAKER_00]: What can we do with it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Chop it up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Chop it up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some deal by it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll deep fry it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's cool, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: Four years, the longer time, eh?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, that's him.

[SPEAKER_02]: Says old as my daughter.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I could, I could see a physical manifestation of the podcast in horror.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man, that's cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have set goals and set ideas with your show?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you ever talk about this on the show about what it is you want to achieve and what it is you want to do and do you feel like you're achieving those things?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because it's just it's just creative and creative enjoyment or fulfillment, it's just [SPEAKER_02]: It's just enjoyment.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's all as so no goals or that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I do have the Patreon and if I could pick up a bit of beer tokens or hobby money that way then great but I try not to ram it down anyone's throat and yeah, it's just really about enjoying and having the conversations in community that is kind of led from it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's all.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.

[SPEAKER_00]: I posted that video and I put it on my my discord on the panel.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's discord and maybe put on yours, but the video that I think used for about the grindification of hobbies and this person's point forward that hobbies on as fun anymore is what they what they could have been because we're always trying to [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, kind of like put it into a work setting where we're always trying to be getting it better or bigger or grow it or develop it or set ourselves targets and all that kind of stuff and and I've been just know what your thoughts are on that and and it seems to be like you've got a really good handle on on what it is that you do creatively.

[SPEAKER_00]: I try and do that myself whereas I like this just exists because it does and I just want it to be [SPEAKER_00]: a good outlet for me is individual and you're kind of the same.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd be interested to know what you think of that video and what other people might think of it too.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll give that a look this afternoon, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: Alrighty then, thanks as always Dan, we'll we catch up again soon and talk about this other topic that we didn't get to, but it'll be worth covering at some point in a think.

[SPEAKER_02]: For sure, thanks for that, mate.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's nice to talk to you always nice talk to you and it's been a long time, mate.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I enjoy that Italian sunshine.

[SPEAKER_02]: Massive thanks to Dan there for the charge, it's always a real pleasure to have him on the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: And if you're unaware of Dan's own podcast as well, paint all the money, he's going to check that out, please, two hundred and fifty odd episodes now, just sitting there waiting on you to binge at the painting table.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, paint all the money's [SPEAKER_02]: one of the classic hobby podcasts a lot more classic than this one I would say I'm better than up because I think if you use them quite harsh on them sometimes and rightly so so I did we did have a longer chat actually I'm going to fire back on to a bit of bonus content I would mention there [SPEAKER_02]: the Italian sunshine, you know, Dan being a billionaire playboy, the hobby just tends to hop around different countries and we were speaking to him from his mansion in Italy.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I was kind of wanting to pick his brains about, you know, when you're when you're rich, as Dan is and when you have so many different houses and so many different countries, how does the hobby work there?

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, what do you take from place to place?

[SPEAKER_02]: You just buy entirely new hobby sets for each year mansions.

[SPEAKER_02]: So [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let's get a peek under the curtain at how the other half left, and here's Dan talking about his hobby life in Italy.

[SPEAKER_00]: This time we brought up on two games with us, so we probably bought half a suitcase of games, so but like one big chunky game that we can play at nighttime when the kids are asleep.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then we've got a couple of smaller game like no more than a couple.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got a few games that we kind of play when the kids are in the sea.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're on the set on the beach and playing a game or we got to a restaurant and have a drink either before or after on meals.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we've got like smaller card games, card based games.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the grizzled hero realms and burgl grows and into the game which I forget.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so when we've got our place established, well slowly bring a certain amount of the game, stash that I have over here.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I've got like, not necessarily a fifty split, but I've got a decent amount of games here that'll stay here and then I'll have some games that'll stay in our other place and then eventually we'll move over here full time or move on to the rest of the mower.

[SPEAKER_00]: In terms of hobby stuff, and I'm going to either transfer some paints at Christmas time from China to here, or I'll get a very basic painting set, and I'll just bring some of these across, because it's really good use of your time, like doing hobby stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: on your holiday, especially because on the holiday, it takes, you know, any holiday run, the danger is that you just absolutely hemorrhage money, like over that handover fist for nothing, you'll notice because you're always on holiday, but like, you know, you're not careful.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're just just black and money, if like, nothing all the time, like an ice cream here, a couple of beers there, you know, mini golf, crazy golf here.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, a hobby and painting stuff like that, you do it, even if you do it for an afternoon, it's just, it's free, you've got stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so especially this nice weather, you can start on the balcony outside.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, that, yeah, it basically kind of get like a temporary hobby set up, bring certain parts with me over a number of different trips and kind of build stuff up.

[SPEAKER_00]: But definitely what you're like, okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just going to say, so paint is still very much on your agenda, then.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you've talked a lot about gaming there, obviously board games.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's potential, like, you know, a lot of them are very small now, and you see, maybe we'll cover there.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, what about the paint front?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's just it's relaxing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So definitely want to be painting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not done at this time.

[SPEAKER_00]: but I definitely will get some sort of hobby station set up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's just, like I said, it's free pretty much, twenty-bottied stuff, or it gets a lot more better value if you constantly use it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just like a nice little afternoon, you know, even if you just you on your own, people go out and do stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can cut a bat, but you definitely get a hobby playing set up.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're maybe bringing some games across that have.

[SPEAKER_00]: Minnes in them.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I've got a couple of games here, Mark, for bringing across at Christmas.

[SPEAKER_00]: Shadows of Brimstone is one and there's another game that picks up a while ago called [SPEAKER_00]: The fear has spilled place.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's what's that weird fear?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's more claustrophobia, claustrophobia.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like claustrophobia like sixteen four e-three or something.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a regional game called claustrophobia and then they brought out like a special version of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like claustrophobia sixteen four e-three or something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I probably bring those across and then I can paint them and then also play the game at the same time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not the same time, but you know, I mean in the same kind of effort as opposed to bringing, I don't think I bring tabletop games across for a while.

[SPEAKER_00]: because you need more stuff, you know, more separate stuff, whereas if you bring like a self-contained box over everything within that box, it's easily packed up and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, looking forward to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's good because on when you're holding it, you've got more leisure time too, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just, you know, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: When you think about all the paints that you've accumulated over the years, presumably you've got quite a lot of paints at your disposal.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then if you're thinking about taking a small selection of those, I guess it would almost be quite a good idea.

[SPEAKER_02]: A good exercise to limit yourself to paint and then see how creative you then have to get when you're used to a wider palette, if that makes sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think we've all got our work, of course, is that me?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think we've all got our kind of usual paints that we kind of go to for our leather and our wood and different things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I'll just kind of either bring some across or our buy certain paints that I know just, you know, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you get to know them.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like an extension of yourself, and it's like, oh, that's my favorite.

[SPEAKER_00]: Would color that's my favorite?

[SPEAKER_00]: Bookle color, that's my favorite.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my cut-up color.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll perfectly keep it very simple.

[SPEAKER_00]: a more technical stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: I keep it in my main place and I've got like a travel set that will stay stay here and I'll bring minis with your approach for it for those colors and things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, yeah, keep it ready really because you don't need a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think as well as you see like paint ranges with like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of colors and it's really actually need that many especially if you understand the cool cool wheel.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I'm the colour wheel and yeah, you kind of good to go really without seven different colours you can probably mix and match and all that kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you mix your own colours or do you stick to what comes straight out of all?

[SPEAKER_02]: I try not to mix colors.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'll lighten or darken a color.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I try not to mix those.

[SPEAKER_02]: We'll go with that in the past.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm quite badly colorblind.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't trust myself to mix up in into complicated because it might be like, oh, what a nice green.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've got here.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's actually pink or something.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I don't I'm the same as you but not because I'm colorblind because I forget the recipe Yeah, so it's like yeah if I paint like a big unit or something I'll put together like a really nice turquoise or whatever and then and then it's like comes to paint them again like a few months later and I'm like hey and got any idea about how to do it again.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll forget for this really more than I said we can make do with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have the any colors really Yeah, it's only kind of just like you know fun around collecting stuff that I've got so many [SPEAKER_02]: My first ever pain set when I would have been like, I don't know, can maybe, and it was, it was the game's workshop, it was a little red box, and I can't remember how many pain sets.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was a starter set, so you could either get it with the standard, like, little plastic, mono post space menu, or you could get the fantasy version with the chaos warrior.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it was like, I want to say five paint.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I think, yeah, the white of black are red.

[SPEAKER_02]: You didn't have a blue or that green.

[SPEAKER_02]: You had a green.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it might have just been four or possibly snaked by leather was in there.

[SPEAKER_02]: So say four or five, but you crucially, I know the two managers you didn't get, didn't require it, but you crucially didn't have like a skin color.

[SPEAKER_02]: There was no blue in there.

[SPEAKER_02]: So like I remember, like all sorts of ways that I ended up trying to get skin color like [SPEAKER_02]: You know, just mixing up a kind of chalky black and white mixture or like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I tried all sorts to get a skin color.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've never even remotely got close to a typical skin color or an acceptable loot skin color.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was always just about weird, but it was just, it was just a childlike experiment as opposed or complete lack of budget maybe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, again, it's the that law that keeps on getting grappled within America isn't there the right to repair.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think sales people that want to sell those paint don't want us to remember the color wheel and what colors need to be mixed to make others because.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anyone needs over a hundred paints, for example.

[SPEAKER_00]: You've got red, yellow and blue as you're mained three, and out of those three primary colors, you can make a whole bunch of others.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's fairly easy, but if you need to remember it, like I remember, because I have it on what I'm a hobby desk, and it kind of helps to mix up different colors and helps you to understand the basics.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, skin color would be something that I don't even know how to get that.

[SPEAKER_00]: from primary colours, I don't know, I don't know how you get it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I'm still trying to flag it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's very years later, I just said, he definitely did scratch in my head.

[SPEAKER_02]: Still got that low start, I'll say it's all I've got.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I've been that same space marine.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks very much for listening to this episode of the table top miniature hobby podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you enjoy the show then please do share it with someone else you think might enjoy it too and be sure to check out our discord community of like-minded hobbyists which you could find at BedroomBattlefield.com forward slash discord.

[SPEAKER_02]: It'd be great to see you in there.