Some people spend their lives searching for treasure.

For mushroom hunters, that treasure grows quietly in the shadows, but sometimes unknown dangers can also be lurking in those same shadows.

I'm Megan, I'm Danielle, and welcome back to Off the Trails.

So in, I don't know how many episodes have we done, like two hundred, yeah, I think it is, see Patreon.

This is the first time that I actually know about a case you've covered.

Oh, like you're actually familiar with it.

Okay, good, Well, because there's a lot of information.

I feel like this case, especially during the search, gets a little chaotic with different witnesses and and to be.

One hundred percent honest, that's why I didn't or have not covered this for the podcast yet because the investigation there's so many different players and people and I'm like, it's a lot.

Yeah, and I feel like I even whittled it down a little bit from that.

So if you have information that you want to include, like, please.

Do all right?

Sounds good, So before we get started, we do have new patreons.

Justin and Amelia, thank you and welcome.

Welcome.

Oh and I know that we were going to plan a backpacker meet up this month, and that was before realizing that the end of the month just gets a little chaotic with Thanksgiving and availability and then I'm gone all next week, so we should be We'll post sometimes on Patreon for the backpackers for next month to meet up, hopefully early enough on before any like holiday chaos, uh ties people up and because we'd love to get some people on there and meet up with you and discuss a case.

So yeah, I never went by so fast?

It did?

It did weird?

This morning when I got off, I was like, it didn't feel like I had a two day weekend.

It went by so fast.

And reality, I didn't work on Friday, so technically I had a three day weekend from work, but you know it's it didn't even feel like a full two day weekend.

Yeah, these days are going are just flying by, all right?

Well?

Oh before okay, so just before we get into the story, since it is Thanksgiving week, what is your favorite Thanksgiving food?

Mashed potatoes?

Oh?

Same, I love them and I'm responsible for them.

So my other favorite, like mashed potatoes, I do make like year round, but one item that I feel like is specifically a Thanksgiving item is like yeast rolls mm hmm.

I don't know.

I don't make them any other time of the year or eat them any other time of the year, but Thanksgiving that's it, yep, going for it.

I try not to eat.

I mean, I could eat dinner rolls every night, you know, I could eat a roll for every meal of the day.

That's but I try not to so on Thanksgiving, I certainly don't let myself feel bad for enjoying them.

Yeah.

So I'm not sure what my family is doing for a meal because this year we're not having the additional family over because, as you know, my brother and sister in lawn just had twins on Friday, So we had kind of said in advance that we were not hosting any additional family just because it's going to be too much.

It was too much with just the handful of kids we had last year.

So I think we're going to do maybe just sides and apps.

Okay, like little finger foods.

Yes, so we are going to eat obviously, but not the traditional Thanksgiving spread necessarily, so a lot of mash potatoes and rolls probably.

Honestly, that sounds perfect, all right.

Well, yeah, okay, I don't think we have anything.

I think that's it, okay.

On June eighth, twenty thirteen, seventy nine year old Hildegard Hendrickson left her home in North Seattle for what should have been just a simple day trip.

She planned to spend a few hours foraging for mushrooms, and she ended up in a burn zone near a basalt peak off Minnow Creek Trail.

So she'd been making trips like this for over thirty years, heading east of the Cascades in search of morels, and she had every intention of being home that evening.

Unfortunately, she would never make it home, and despite one of the most intensive searches in the region, not a single trace of her has ever been found.

Hildegard's story started far from the Pacific Northwest.

She was born in Hungary, but her family was displaced during World War Two and eventually ended up in Austria.

That's where she met Monty, an American serviceman twenty five years older than she was.

She moved to Seattle in her twenties to pursue her doctorate at the University of Washington, and she and Monte married in nineteen sixty.

She built a busy, accomplished life.

She became a respected economics and finance professor, teaching for nearly twenty years at Seattle University.

She raised two sons, and she became an absolute force in the mushrooming world.

She served as the educational chair of the Puget Sound Mycological Society, and every Monday afternoon after she retired, she volunteered at the Center for Urban Horticulture, helping people identify mushrooms they brought in.

Have you ever been mushrooming?

So we got into my child and I got really into foraging like last winter, which obviously we were not actually doing any winter forging, but he wanted to learned about anything that you could eat out in the woods.

So we got a lot of books, and we got the special tools and stuff like that, and we did go out a few times looking for things.

But I'm not really a mushroom person in general, so we did not look for mushrooms specifically, but we did find other things that then once I got into the kitchen, my child was like, hmm, I don't really need to try it.

I was like, literally, we have.

I've spent seventy dollars on books that we have bread through and looked through and made lists and now you're like, hmm, I really don't want to make that, thinks, So it's all right, really funny.

Oh man, gotta love them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I only ask because, especially for there to be a weekly panel at this center, I'm like, how many people are bringing in mushrooms in like help identifying them?

I think it's really cool that she did that.

But there must be like a pretty prominent community out there.

Yeah.

So she was sharp, well loved, and widely seen as one of the most knowledgeable amateur mushroom experts of the region.

After Monty died in two thousand and one, Hildegarde kept mushroom hunting as a way to stay active and keep doing something that her and her husband had grown to love.

Even in her late seventies, she was still strong enough for the long treks that forging required.

The only physical limitation she had was arthritis in one knee, which made her stick to flatter ground and avoid climbing over obstacles or pushing through thick brush.

She was also known for staying close to her car, and she would typically even leave her car unlocked with like her person and everything, but she usually always kept it in sight.

And I don't know how that works, because I feel like if you're out in the woods, you lose sight of your car pretty quickly.

But you know, yeah, I agree, she seemed to have a system.

Back to June eighth of twenty thirteen.

That Saturday morning, Hildegard drove her green Ford Focus out for her day trip that she had planned.

She wore a bright shirt under a tan mesh vest, carried a silver mesh basket for collecting morels, and used a metallic hiking stick, and it was also reported that she wore a mushroom necklace that her husband had given to her.

It's really cute, so cute.

She talked to at least a few people throughout that day, and earlier in the morning, a fellow mushroom hunter named Igor actually first saw her near the Rock Creek campground, and he had told her that there were some really great morales growing near bus Salt Peak because there had just recently been a burn there and that could be reached from the Minnow Creek trail, but she wasn't as familiar with that area, so he gave her directions down some forest roads and you know, told her where to go, so she headed there instead.

Around one thirty that afternoon, other mushroom hunters encountered her about halfway along the Minnow Creek trail.

So I imagine that probably several people knew about this newly burned area and were like, we're all in.

So I just remember when I was reading about this case, and just like there are so many people mushroom hunting on this particular day, there's so many witnesses who were out there doing the same thing that she was.

There were exactly so you have the mushroom hunters as well as just regular you know, day hikers and people who were out and about.

So it was very active here.

So she had chatted with some of them, said she was heading off to look for morels, and just continued on the trail.

There was also a forest service worker who reported seeing someone matching her description around that same time near the first switchback in the trail.

And there was also a doctor from Seattle who was on the trail, though I don't believe he was mushroom hunting.

I think he was just there for a day hike and he had spoken with her too, and to the point where she even had shown him some of the mushrooms she had, so she actually had like two bags of mushrooms in the trunk of her car, so she just was just mushrooms and she's like, let me tell you about them and let me show them to you, and he's.

Like, you're cool.

But he did recall her telling him that she was going up the trail to that burn area to look for them, and he been not knowing her, was just like, ooh, I don't love the idea of this woman hiking out there alone, and especially with her bad knee.

So he just told her like, hey, you know, be careful.

I hate to see you heading out alone.

And she's like, I'm good, I'm good.

So, you know, they said they're goodbyes and went on their separate ways.

But those sightings are.

Essentially the last confirmed ones that we ever got from that day and thereafter.

Three days later, on June eleventh, Igor was actually still in the area hunting mushrooms, so he had just kept going back for these, you know, daytime outings, but he had noticed the same green Ford Focus had been parked in the same place for several days, though he didn't know whose car it was.

He just noticed that it hadn't left yet.

And.

I don't know what I would do in this situation.

I feel like I might just call, you know, the local forest rangers or the local police.

But he was like, I'm going to check out this car, so to each.

To each their own, I guess, yeah, and all with the best of intentions.

But he you know, opened the he saw that the two front windows were cracked, and he tried one of the doors and it was unlocked.

So he's like, oh, perfect, and there were some papers inside, some documents inside.

He was able to see that it was Hildegarde's car, and he immediately obviously recognized her name because he did know her, even though he didn't know that that was her vehicle.

Okay, so as soon as that happened, he did call the police, and they pretty quickly sent an officer out there to you know, check it out.

And by this point, Hildegarde had actually missed a mushrooming field trip, she'd missed her Monday identification panel.

She'd even missed her granddaughter's graduation, which was pretty unlike her to miss these things.

I'm surprised that her family didn't report her missing when she missed the graduation me too, and I didn't see anywhere stating otherwise, so maybe they had called on the side, but I did not find that reported.

I just saw that it was actually Igor's phone call that kicked off the search.

Okay, I mean I guess they could have reported her missing, but if they didn't know where she was, nothing had right mobalized yet.

Yeah, I mean, she had gone out of town mushroom hunting, so maybe in town they were already starting to question her whereabouts, but they wouldn't be able to connect her to anything until this vehicle was found.

Authlorready called her son Andrew, and he said that he had last Apparently they emailed like they would stay in contact through email, which is funny.

I mean, I know over the years I've emailed with family members, but that's not my primary form of communication with.

Me, right.

Yeah.

We also just talked about in our last episode, our last exclusive episode, where also sometimes like older people don't love phones.

Yeah, so they're like catch me in my inbox, like otherwise, Well, you and I used to email a ton.

We did email a lot every once in a while because Megan and I did meet working together.

One hundred and fifty years ago.

Every once in a while I'll go into like the archives of search or something, and it's like, oh, here's this weird email from two thousand and fourteen where you and Megan were talking about something very strange.

And I will say that probably a big reason for that was, I mean, I work remote now, and you know you're in the office and I was in an office, so you could definitely just like email on the like, oh yeah, we could keep a conversation going through email, way easier than if we had tried texting.

And also, because we're both novel writers, it's way easier to send your friend a novel from a computer.

And sometimes I will like start reading these, I'm like, what were we talking about?

Who were we mad at?

Like, oh, I thought there's some good ones in there.

Oh yeah, there are.

I'll have to go back and look too.

So, yeah, he had last emailed her a few days prior, but he said he hadn't spoken to her since.

So as soon as he found out that, you know, her car was found essentially abandoned, it sounded like he did try calling her phone, but it was turned off.

So he went to her house and didn't find anything out of place, but one source did mention that he found heart medication, which he was unaware she was taking.

Okay, so.

Not to say that that's troubling by itself, but you know, if her heart medication was there and now she might be missing somewhere, that brings in, you know, this other unknown factor of what could have potentially happened.

Right and for her son, if he was unaware of the fact that she was taking it, he probably has no idea the severity of what she's being treated for.

Absolutely, and that's a good point too.

So given the circumstances, the Shelan County Sheriff's Office launched an official search that same afternoon.

Over the core of the search, I'm not sure about the first day, but you know, there were several agencies that came out.

There were over sixty people who joined in.

There were searchers on foot dog teams, horses, aerial support, you know, family and friends, members of the micological community showed up to and this was just over the course of this search.

You know, the sheriff did mention that foul play couldn't be ruled out, but there wasn't any solid evidence pointing in that direction.

So just a lot of unknowns at this point.

But it was the first night of the search where things started looking a little suspicious.

So after the search ended, once daylight ended, you know, all the searchers went home, but they did keep an officer parked at the scene to keep it secure.

They had blocked off the access road to prevent people from coming in because they didn't know if this was a crime scene yet or not.

And you know, her car was still there.

The scene was still being processed, so they wanted to prevent anyone from coming in and keep it manned with an officer at all times.

Well, around ten thirty that night, a white Ford truck approached this trailhead area despite the fact that the road was blocked off from where they would have entered from.

So the officer you know, stops the vehicle and tries to talk to this driver, who didn't appear to speak very much English.

Okay, so he was able to confirm or surmise that this driver, who was by himself, was just trying to reach a campsite farther up the closed road, and the officer was like, hey, I'm sorry, like you can't be up here because this road is blocked.

You literally passed the roadblock back there, so I'm going to need you to turn around.

I mean, I will say, you know, not speaking English is not an excuse for being like, oh, this barricade.

I definitely think that that was meant for me to just drive around.

Because I'm definitely the exception to that roadblock.

So he did turn around, you know, he complied.

There was, you know, no no issues in that interaction.

But the officer did notice that there had been a second vehicle following the truck and they had just turned around before reaching where the truck and the officer was, so he did run the plates, and the truck came back to a man named Alonzo, and authorities didn't really know what to make of it, like it was just there's he didn't do anything wrong, per se.

As soon as he turned around, everything they started out, but it was still a little odd.

The next morning, a man named Jeremy arrived at search headquarters where they had set up incident command and near this trailhead, and he said that he needed to retrieve a pack that he had left behind from being in this area the day before or within the days, you know, leading up to that.

So the officers were like, okay, sure, yeah, you can go find your pack, but you're getting an escort there, right, since this scene is you know, closed.

So he's like, oh man.

So he goes to get his pack and he's like, okay, I also have like four huge bins of mushrooms and they're like, oh, it's there.

There's like a like a commercial limit, right, or like you're not supposed to be collecting commercially there if I remember correctly.

Oh, you are remembering very correctly, because commercial level mushroom picking was illegal without a permit, and so you could only do like personal foraging and you are only allowed about I think it's three gallons per person per day.

Okay, So actually, hanging in my entryway, I do have a foraging bag and it's probably about like three gallonss like size wise.

They're like, you filled it up.

That's it.

You're done for the day.

So he went to get his pack, but also disclosed to them all of the bins that he was hiding there as well, and they're like, oh, okay, wasn't just the pack that you were looking for?

Right?

Also, though I feel like if I said I needed to go get my pack, and they're like, yeah, we'll ask, or you're like, you know what, I could just come back later for it, right, You're.

Like, you guys had you guys seem kind of occupied with other things.

I'll just grab it another day.

Yeah, Like, I don't know why.

He just really, I don't know whatever.

Apparently he thought they were gonna be like, oh, you have to go in there and do something weird.

That's fine, go for it.

We'll just turn our backs.

You just do your thing, right, So then a short time later, search teams also found thirty two more bins of mushrooms hidden in the brush not far from the roadway, and there was also a small backpack filled with some clothes and food.

Hildegarde's family was able to confirm though that none of those items belonged to her.

Okay, and as we said, this was not just someone little afternoon foraging.

That is a lot of mushrooms that are intentionally hidden, which was wildly illegal during this time.

Of course, you know, in these searches, especially when they're actively searching and they're all you also have people working behind the scenes talking to all the witnesses, taking statements, looking into people.

So while this search is happening, Jeremy's also getting looked into a little bit more because that was not.

That we oftens when you show up and admit to not doing things legally.

Yep.

So they did find out that Jeremy actually knew Hildegarde and she was the one who taught him how to forage mushrooms.

Okay, but they had been known to argue in the past because she knew that he was illegally trying to you know, commercially harvest large loads of mushrooms and she was strongly opposed to that.

So they butted heads about that in the past.

And one of the big things in foraging and all of the books and everything is only take what you need or going to be able to use.

Like all of these books are very specific in teaching people to you know, certain plants, you can take this many leaves off of it, but leave the rest of the plant.

Or if you get like a grouping of plants, only take you know, x amount and leave the rest for regrowth or other people whatever.

So I definitely can see how it would really rub her the wrong way.

Oh yeah, Like she took that very seriously, you know, respect, the respect, the enjoyment of it, and she and although she was of course very well loved and well respected, she was also known to be assertive at times too, and not I think in the in the times that she would be assertive it was warranted, but she wouldn't back down from a conversation like this.

Would she would have no problem calling someone out.

You know, some people are non confrontational in the sense of like, oh, well, just turn a blind eye.

I don't want to get involved, but she would be someone to be like, I'm getting involved in telling them that this is not okay.

Other mushroom hunters and other people that were there in the area were questioned.

One man named Victor said he saw someone he believed to be Hildegarde around one pm on the day she disappeared, and another witness, who was that doctor from Seattle, you know he had called in after he saw her missing flyer on the local news, was back in Seattle and he immediately recognized her as this woman that he had met on the trail, and that just you know, really was super disheartening for him because he had actually told her, like I don't love that you're out here by yourself, and then to find out that she went missing that same day.

Right, he had had that bad feeling and it came to fruition whatever happened.

Right, So, on June thirteenth, another mushroom hunter, a man named Gary Warner, told police that he had seen her car on Monday and Tuesday, but he had never actually seen who it belonged to, and he insisted that he had stuck to the legal three gallon limit, but he also said that there were a lot of illegal foragers that were in that area.

The official search continued for six days after she went missing, each day bringing more searchers, volunteers, canines, and loved ones looking for answers.

I know Andrew and his girlfriend were out there trying to help with the search as well, you know, But unfortunately, although there were so many people in the area, no one knew what happened to her after they saw her, you know, halfway up that trail.

But you know, even long after the initial search ended, because unfortunately they did have to make that call that since nothing had been found, there had been no developments, they were going to need to suspend the official search.

However, they did insist that if anything came up, they would immediately reopen it and you know, continue the search.

But family, friends and professionals, you know, her colleagues, they all kept returning to look for anything.

And it was two of Hildegarde's friends, Wanda and Lynn, who decided to visit this site themselves to just kind of get a feel for it.

And they had actually been out to this area with her prior to her going missing, but for one reason or another, that day they didn't end up actually going out on the trail.

They didn't actually end up mushroom hunting.

They turned around.

So they had been out that way with her, and they she had even joked about keeping too easier terrain because she's like, if I fall, I don't know if I can get back up, right, So there was the self awareness of like I got to stay, you know, in places that you know, I'm comfortable walking around in and foraging in.

But yeah, they had turned around that day, and they had even I believe made a comment to her like we don't want you out there by yourself, though, so don't go, don't go venturing back out here alone.

And unfortunately we do know.

That she did.

But anyway, so they start walking this trail, searching this area, and they're like, this is very difficult terrain.

There were a lot of fallen over trees and you're talking these massive trees that are obstructing the trail.

You know, kind of the ground was uneven, it was rugged.

There was a ridge nearby that you could fall over if you got too close to it, and you know, kind of a steep drop off, and they're like, this is kind of a place that seems like she would have avoided just with her own comfort level and right, you know, bad knee.

So they did find that a bit strange that she would have gone far ventured, far enough away from this immediate you know, vicinity to go even further into this kind of rugged terrain, right, especially since she was known.

To say, relatively close to her vehicle.

Right.

So then the fact that this terrain was tougher than people thought that she would want to manage and she would have gone had to have gone further away from her vehicle in this less than ideal terrain.

Yeah, because if she had, well, we can we can pin you know, these hypotheticals for our theories section.

So as they were, as Wanda and Lynn were kind of wandering around this area.

They had separated just a little bit.

They weren't super far apart from each other, but Wanda was by herself when she actually came across a man carrying a couple buckets of mushrooms, and he was kind of standoffish, and she immediately got like, kind of creeped out by him.

He had this I think he was near this blue van, and he immediately brought up like this the missing woman in the area, and he was just like, and you know, people kill for these mushrooms, Like people are very territorial around here.

Mushroom hunters are really territorial around here.

And she's like, oh, okay, I don't know.

It's a weird.

It's a weird thing to say in the location.

Like I understand that it's likely true, but I feel like, maybe not conversation for some strangers she just came upon in the location where someone is missing.

Yeah, I think there are better ways to present all of that information to this woman that you just came across.

She also noted that the whole time that they were I shouldn't say they were talking.

I don't know if she was willingly talking to him at this point, he was writing at her, but she said he had his hand like on a knife that was like around his waist and she's like, I'm not comfortable at all right now.

So you know, luckily she reconnected with Lynn told her what happened.

They're like, let's get the f out of here, and they were like, that was super weird.

They reported the encounter, and actually there was another woman named Michelle who called in with a very similar report about a suspicious individual who mentioned Hildegarde's disappearance.

So this woman, Michelle, had mentioned this blue van and this guy that she had come across and just kind of a very similar interaction with him.

So they're like, Okay, who's this guy that is like terrifying these women talking about people killing over mushrooms.

So a few days later, a deputy in the area spotted a blue van matching the description of the man that Wanda and Michelle had both reported.

The driver, whose name was Christopher.

He admitted that he had been foraging there on June fifteenth and sixteenth, but that he and his he and his friend they weren't there though in the area when Hildegard had gone missing, and after having some more conversations.

Doing a little more digging, the police were able to clear him as a person of interest because they were able to confirm that as sketchy as he did come across, he was not thought to be in the area when she had gone missing.

They said that they waited for it to open back up after the search, and then they were there.

Just so he had just been creepy and suspicious somewhere else the day that she went missing exactly.

Searchers did go back later on to check some miss coordinates because they had checked these same hot what they call them high probability areas of where she could have been, and they checked and double checked.

They brought search dogs, they brought cadaver dogs.

They really covered a lot of ground and recovered ground.

So, you know, they apparently though had missed a set of coordinates.

I think they even got some.

There was a psychic involved at some point, like they tried everything.

I vaguely remember the psychic.

Yeah, So the psychic like gave coordinates, and so there was one set of missed coordinates.

So they went back and did a training exercise there.

They're like, okay, well let's you know, let's take advantage of being out here and go to this area that you know, we can double check, but there was just like an abandoned campsite that didn't turn out to be you know, relevant to the cases, seems.

And then there was another search in September where one of the searchers said that there was a really really strong foul odor, but cadaver dogs were brought in and they couldn't locate a source for it, so, you know, kind of another dead end.

Despite two thousand, five hundred and twenty four hours of search of just searching going into this investigation, not a single piece of her belongings or no sign of her was ever found, not her basket, her hiking poll clothes, nothing, And unfortunately, in twenty fifteen she was legally declared dead.

So now we can get into some of those theories.

You know that we pinned one possibility, and this is what I was actually going to mention before, is that you know, she simply got lost or injured and succumbed to the elements or succumb to an injury, but that doesn't line up with her habits or more importantly, I think the lack of evidence she wasn't known to wander she did avoid obstacles.

I mean, she was even physically limited with her bad knee to where she might only be able to go so far.

And if she had injured herself somewhere in the area, we can only assume that at least the dogs would have picked up a cent.

I mean that search started very quickly, and there wasn't any weather reported that would have hindered the search or washed away any sense or evidence.

So I mean the other thing is, and obviously I don't know for sure, but she sounds well prepared for these outings.

So my guess or hope was that she would have had like an emergency whistle on her And there were so many people in this area that day that if something had happened, if she had fallen or gotten herself in a location that she wasn't able to get out of, it sounds like there were a lot of people that had she used to whistle or yelled, I don't know.

I think there's high potential that someone would have hurt her, definitely, even if she was trying to alert someone before the search even started, as there enough fut traffic out there, so you know, if she was out there that day, I mean, even the search started, there were people who Igor said he was in that area every day from the time that she he had seen her on the eighth, So there were definitely other people there even in the days that followed before the search even started exactly.

Another theory is that there was a medical emergency, which kind of you know, falls into the being injured out there and ultimately succumbing to it, especially if it was something that went untreated.

With that one source mentioning that heart medication at her house that she had never disclosed, it's possible that she suffered a sudden medical event.

But even then you would expect searchers to find something because she would have been doing what she typically did, which was staying within the vicinity of her car, or you know, at least not straying super far from the trail.

But nothing turned up.

There was a.

User on Reddit who mentioned that this area has a lot of bears.

They said that it within just five miles of a hike, like just a five mile hike in this area, they had seen seven black bears and one grizzly bear.

There's a lot of bears.

That's a lot of bears.

Yeah, you know, and for someone walking alone, especially if you're wandering off trail.

That danger is of course real and is scary.

But that being said, the lack of evidence of an animal encounter or animal attack kind of puts that one, that theory a little lower down the list as well, I think, I mean.

Plus nobody else.

Again, there are a lot of other people in that area that day, and no one else mentioned encountering or seeing a bear.

Yeah, no bear activity seemed to have been reported that one hiker just I think after maybe the first or second black bear, I would have left.

Yeah, I don't know what.

Like what was that person's threshold, Like once I see a dozen bears, it's time to leave, I'm out.

I'm turning around, and the grizzly I'm definitely out.

Oh yeah, for sure.

So you know, and then there's this one theory that many people seem to be leaning toward, and of course we don't love to jump on the speculation train, but it has to be mentioned that this area had a large amount of illegally of illegal harvesting and uh, you know, proof of it.

With all of those bins found several people who were you know, clearly involved in it, and one person even saying that people out there will kill for mushrooms.

Another one who had had previous conflicts with her before due to her opposition of their illegal harvesting, and that burn zone that she was headed toward was a high value target for commercial harvesting.

So I just had I just looked up the Obviously this is like current rates, So I was like, how much money are these people getting for these mushrooms?

Like if they're harvesting them, you know, with however many buckets and selling them.

So the going rate is typically between thirty and sixty dollars per pound, but in specialty restaurants or like times where they're not as season tofi and they can be as much as eighty dollars a pound.

I'm moving to Seattle and starting to get.

An illegal mushroom collecting operation.

That's wild.

That's a lot of money.

Mm hmmm.

Because I mean not that any amount of money is worth murdering someone for, Like that's not where I'm going with this, But I was just curious, like what is the how motivated would people be to get rid of interference?

Absolutely, and I mean unfortunately, people have killed and been willing to kill for far less value so if they are trying to protect their illegal harvesting operation, and that's pretty you know, big money for walking around the woods mushrooms, you know, I it's absolutely not out of the question.

Right, So if she had, you know, confronted the wrong person, especially if she saw someone breaking the law, it's possible that you know, they did something to you know, prevent her from reporting them.

And that would also potentially explain why nothing was found, because you know, at that point you can remove the evidence from the area.

Also, the late night arrival of those two vehicles that bypassed the barricade that first night, it was just another I mean, it was never confirmed what their true intentions were of going to that area, but we could potentially speculate that they they were there as part of one of those operations.

It might not be related, but.

I don't know why though they would be heading there otherwise.

Right, And it seems like you would need a couple of vehicles to pick up what was it, thirty something containers.

Yeah, there were the thirty two that they found during and they call them bins, so like they must be pretty big.

Yeah, So there were the thirty two that had that small pack.

Next to it that had the clothes and food.

And then the other one was the what was his name, Chris, Jeremy, Oh, Jeremy, No, which one had the there's too many of them, It was Jeremy.

Jeremy had Jeremy's like, well, can you ask what me to my illegal mushrooms?

Yes?

Yes, so.

Yeah.

Hildegarde devoted much of her life to education in the classroom and in the forest.

She was the person who taught others how to be safe in the woods.

And yet somehow the woods she loved would be the same ones that she vanishes in, leaving nothing behind but questions.

So if you're heading into you know, remote wilderness, especially where valuable resources are harvested, just try to take some extra precautions.

I mean, this wasn't even as we were saying, this was moderately trafficked by others.

This she wasn't out there by herself.

There were plenty of other people in and out on the trail who had seen her, who had spoken to her, and so I'm sure there was that level of comfort for her too.

Right.

So, although your regular like fellow day hikers would likely be staying on the trail where she was heading toward that burn area that was likely a bit more off trail.

It does sound like there were other mushroom above the law mushroom hunters who were there as well, and so you know, you'd kind of seek comfort in knowing that there were others kind of enjoying the same hobby that you're enjoying.

And she should have had that sense of comfort.

But as we've always said, because she made a habit of not doing this is tell someone where you're going and when you plan to be back.

It might seem like a simple little outing, but you can never be too careful because so many things can go sideways even if you do take all the precautions.

Try not to hike or forage alone in areas where there's no cell service, have your phone on when you are there, even if it's spotty service.

Again, data can still be extracted to help if something does go terribly wrong.

Carrie, a GPS device or a whistle or any other type of signaling device as you mentioned, that could make such a difference.

If you are incapacitated for some reason, you know it's going to be a lot easier to hear a whistle than someone trying to yell, stick to trails when possible, especially in burn areas where footing can be unstable.

Learn what wildlife you might encounter, carry bear spray if it's permitted and recommended.

And if you come across people who seem suspicious or or who may be doing something illegal, don't confront them yourself.

Leave that to the professionals.

Just leave the area and report it.

Don't engage, Do not engage, you know, so for me, I personally, I know sometimes in these missing person's cases there are some far fetched theories out there.

I However, in this one, I don't think it's far fetched to think that there was foul play involved.

I don't either.

I think typically in other cases that we've looked at and discussed, foul play isn't usually my leading theory.

But I think in this situation it is very plausible.

I think so too.

I think there were enough.

Suspicious folks out there who were engaging in the illegal foraging.

And if she was not known to back down to these people and she would tell them, she would call them out on what they're doing wrong.

You know, all it takes is one of them to be like, Okay, she's got to go right, so I think it's just so sad.

She just looked like the sweetest little lady, just doing what she loved and I hope she didn't cross paths with the wrong person.

But also there's no sign of her.

Unfortunately, she's very likely no longer with us, and I just hate to wonder what those last moments were like for her and if any trace will ever be found of her, any remains anything to offer some answers or closure, especially for her loved ones.

Yeah, definitely.

So that does it for today's episode.

Let us know what you guys think.

And I'm excited because Danielle told me when she found out what this story was, what this case was, that she has a really great episode follow up episode that kind of falls in line with it.

So I'm looking forward to that.

Oh and also I shouldn't ask you.

I'm going to ask the listeners because I know that it's a lost cause asking you.

All Right, If A, have you seen the movie Pig and B if you haven't, you should.

I've never even heard of it.

It was one of the best movies I've ever seen.

I also it has Nicholas Cage love him.

I'm very creepy.

I love him.

But he has a truffle hunting pig and he like lives out in the woods with his pig and they go out every day forging for mushrooms.

And I'm not going to give any spoilers, but holy moly, that movie is an emotional ride and just such I felt like such an original plot for a movie and it was just really well done.

And so yeah, the mushroom Forging just reminded me of that.

So is there a book fi?

I'll read it.

I don't know.

I don't know.

If there is, I'll look for you this.

As long as there's how pictures of Nicholas Cage in it.

I love him.

I think he's great.

I think he's creepy.

But that's all right.

We have different taste in men, obviously we have, Yes, we do.

All right, Well, everyone enjoy your Thanksgiving if you celebrate, and if you don't, we still hope you have a nice week.

If you don't still have some hashed potatoes.

Yeah, if you don't, still use Thursdays a really good excuse to overeat for sure.

All right, Bye,