[SPEAKER_07]: Hello, friends and happy holidays.

[SPEAKER_07]: As promised, we are back with an update that is also going to serve as our year end round up.

[SPEAKER_07]: Josh, it has been quite the interesting year for both us personally and the show.

[SPEAKER_07]: We took our first extended break from the show last September through February, which was a smidge longer than we had anticipated, but that's life.

[SPEAKER_04]: well we just couldn't do it.

[SPEAKER_07]: So in April we were trying to get back on our feet get to work but it didn't really go that way and as a show we unexpectedly went from a trio to a duo and for those that have reached out and asked thank you and yes we are still in touch with them she's doing great I just talked to her a couple weeks ago about Christmas horror movies and she's doing well.

[SPEAKER_07]: Josh anything exciting for you this year [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe, but I can't remember anything.

[SPEAKER_07]: What was this year?

[SPEAKER_07]: What was five years ago?

[SPEAKER_07]: Who can say?

[SPEAKER_04]: It's just a time blob.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_04]: And in the best way, because I get to be with you.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's a wonderful time blob.

[SPEAKER_04]: But it's also blobby.

[SPEAKER_04]: blobby, what happened this year?

[SPEAKER_04]: Can you tell me what happened to me this year?

[SPEAKER_07]: Well, because of the hiatus and changing of the guards, if you will, we stepped back as far as public events, so we didn't do crime con or any of those kind of conventions.

[SPEAKER_07]: So it was a very quiet year while also feeling yes, like a blob and also January, which is basically now, I don't know if you realize this Josh, that will be seven years since we first had our first meeting and named the show and decided we were doing it.

[SPEAKER_07]: And April will be seven years of the show.

[SPEAKER_07]: That's a long time.

[SPEAKER_07]: I know.

[SPEAKER_07]: So let's get to some updates.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: We're keeping it short.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's the holidays.

[SPEAKER_07]: we're going to try to keep it in good news as awful as I may sound saying that.

[SPEAKER_07]: But our first piece of information is that Kevin Coe is dead.

[SPEAKER_04]: The South Hill rapist himself.

[SPEAKER_04]: He sure didn't look quite so handsome as he neared the end of his life or well presented.

[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_07]: In January of this year, Kevin Coe, also known as the South Hill rapist, had his lawyer petition to get him released from his imprisonment at McNeil Island, early as his health was deteriorating.

[SPEAKER_07]: Throughout his well-deserved time incarcerated since 1984, he has suffered from depression, who hasn't, and a heart condition that paired with a stroke led to his mobility being limited.

[SPEAKER_07]: Kevin's hopes were that he could live out the last of his days at a halfway home in federal way Washington, but once word got out, the community fought back and demanded he be placed elsewhere, which worked and he went to a home in Auburn, Washington, in October.

[SPEAKER_07]: On December 3rd, with just a few weeks of sort of freedom under his belt, Kevin Coe was found on responsive in his room.

[SPEAKER_07]: CPR efforts were made, but 78-year-old Kevin South Hill rapist Coe did not survive and he died of natural causes.

[SPEAKER_07]: In my opinion, an unfairly peaceful ending to his monstrous story.

[SPEAKER_07]: Josh, you covered the story of Kevin Coe.

[SPEAKER_07]: I believe over multiple [SPEAKER_04]: It might have been a two or three.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, it was a two-parter.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was this little piece of the devil.

[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_04]: And you can probably find that on our any of our feeds, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: It's still up there.

[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, he was a monster.

[SPEAKER_04]: He was extremely prolific.

[SPEAKER_04]: One of the most violent sexual predators.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, he was the worst man.

[SPEAKER_04]: He was the one that would shove his fist.

[SPEAKER_04]: His fingers down the throats of the women in girls.

[SPEAKER_04]: He was attacking.

[SPEAKER_07]: Isn't it a shame?

[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I don't believe in the death penalty and our justice system is so screwy, but when it's someone like that, and you know it's them wouldn't it be nice if instead of death penalty, they got their own penalty.

[SPEAKER_07]: That's what I want AI robots for.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, every day, we wake you up by doing that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my God, yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: In other making the world a little lighter news, it is rumored that Gary Green River Killer Ridgeway is also approaching the end of his life.

[SPEAKER_07]: In early December, K.I.R.O.

[SPEAKER_07]: News Radio in Seattle reported that five sources confirmed.

[SPEAKER_07]: Ridgeway was still in Washington State Prison, Waluala, but was receiving end of life care.

[SPEAKER_07]: However, the Washington Department of Corrections Communications Director Rachel Erickson told the same station that anything regarding Ridgeway dying was, quote, inaccurate rumors, and quote, Gary Ridgeway has not had any change to his medical condition.

[SPEAKER_07]: So I guess take that for what you will.

[SPEAKER_07]: A news outlet wouldn't report something like that flippantly, especially when they're citing five different sources.

[SPEAKER_07]: So it kind of makes you wonder why they would lie about his condition or if the situation's reversed, why the Department of Corrections would lie about his well-being.

[SPEAKER_07]: So I'm not quite sure what's going on there.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's a little hinky, but we will keep an eye out for any developments and fill you in, you know, [SPEAKER_04]: but it sounds like he's dying.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I do.

[SPEAKER_07]: A news station would not, and I'm not, you know, praising media for being flawless, obviously not, but for something like that to make that kind of claim to have it checked five different times and confirmed.

[SPEAKER_07]: All allow it.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I'm not, I'm not sure what that's about that these five people or five sources would not be accurate or be spreading that rumor and or why would Department of Corrections not just say, yeah, he's not in good health or maybe they're just trying to [SPEAKER_07]: And then he can quietly die and let him that like maybe it affects present like they get more letters or people show what I don't know.

[SPEAKER_07]: So it'll be interesting and you know, Fingy's crossed.

[SPEAKER_07]: As you probably know, we have a weekly segment with our local CBS outlet, Coin called True Crime Tuesday.

[SPEAKER_07]: Wanting to keep a recent case in the media, I covered the story of the shooting death of Philip Redmond.

[SPEAKER_01]: is True Crime Tuesday.

[SPEAKER_01]: We are digging deeper into the recent deadly shooting of Philippi Redmond.

[SPEAKER_03]: Our friends from the murder in the rain pod gas to have more.

[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back to True Crime Tuesday.

[SPEAKER_04]: Today we are asking for help regarding a recent shooting.

[SPEAKER_04]: Just before 8pm on Monday, August 11th, police were called to the Portland Super Value Inn, located at 5205 North Interstate Avenue to perform a welfare check on a guest.

[SPEAKER_04]: When officers arrived at the scene, they found a deceased man inside one of the rooms [SPEAKER_04]: The victim was later identified as 41-year-old Philip E Redman.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was quickly determined that Philip was a victim of homicidal violence, who, however, was responsible, had fled the scene before authorities arrived.

[SPEAKER_04]: This case is new and active.

[SPEAKER_04]: Police have not released any information regarding who or what they are seeking tips about.

[SPEAKER_04]: If you have any information about the shooting of Philip Redmond, you are at the super-value in on or around August 11th.

[SPEAKER_04]: Or you have any information that may be helpful, you are asked to contact Portland Police Detective Megan Burkine at 503-823-2092, or Detective Brian Sims at 503-823-2079.

[SPEAKER_04]: You can also leave it anonymous tip at crimestoppersoforg.com.

[SPEAKER_07]: Thank you so much for watching and for sharing Phillips story.

[SPEAKER_07]: We'll be back next week with another case.

[SPEAKER_07]: Since those segments are so brief, I don't usually reach out to anyone connected to the case until I'm ready to work on an episode.

[SPEAKER_07]: But every once in a while, I'm guessing, for more of a mouth or maybe Google alerts, we do hear from families after a segment has aired.

[SPEAKER_07]: And that was the case with Phillip Redmond's widow Ashley.

[SPEAKER_07]: She asked that I share new information with you, our listeners.

[SPEAKER_07]: her email read quote, my soul is in turmoil.

[SPEAKER_07]: I do have a fundraiser I started so I can pay for his cremation and bring him home with me.

[SPEAKER_07]: Also to give him a proper celebration of life that he deserves, is there any way you could possibly share it.

[SPEAKER_07]: I would greatly appreciate it so much more than I can put into words.

[SPEAKER_07]: It is on free funder.com.

[SPEAKER_07]: Here is Ashley's description of the fundraiser.

[SPEAKER_07]: Hi, my name is Ashley Redmond and I am writing this with a completely broken heart.

[SPEAKER_07]: On August 11th, my husband Philip was murdered.

[SPEAKER_07]: I still can't believe I'm typing those words.

[SPEAKER_07]: He was taken from me far too soon and my life will never be the same.

[SPEAKER_07]: At the time this happened, I was in the Washington County Work Release Center, working hard on my recovery, trying to become a better version of myself for us, for our future.

[SPEAKER_07]: I never imagined that while I was away, I would lose the love of my life in such a horrible way.

[SPEAKER_07]: I always thought he'd be here when I came home.

[SPEAKER_07]: Philip wasn't perfect, but he was real, and he loved me like nobody ever has.

[SPEAKER_07]: He was my best friend and my soulmate.

[SPEAKER_07]: He had a big heart and cared so deeply for the people he loved.

[SPEAKER_07]: He didn't deserve what happened to him.

[SPEAKER_07]: Now I'm just trying to give him the goodbye he deserves.

[SPEAKER_07]: A simple, beautiful celebration of life where the people who loved him can come together and remember the good times.

[SPEAKER_07]: I also need help covering the cost of his cremation as I don't have the means to do it on my own right now.

[SPEAKER_07]: I know times are hard for everyone but if you're able to help even just a little, it would mean more to me than I could ever put into words.

[SPEAKER_07]: And if you can't donate, please share this with others or keep me and his family in your prayers.

[SPEAKER_07]: Thank you from the bottom of my heart for reading this for caring and for helping me honor the man I love.

[SPEAKER_07]: With love and gratitude, Ashley Redmond.

[SPEAKER_07]: Friends, her fundraiser is only asking for $4,000, and she has currently raised $50.

[SPEAKER_07]: I know that right after the holidays is a tight time for most of us, but if you can give anything to Ashley's fundraiser, please do.

[SPEAKER_07]: Let's show her how murder and the rain fans can come together and help her put her loved one to rest.

[SPEAKER_07]: You can find the fundraiser by searching Philip Redmond on freefunder.com.

[SPEAKER_07]: That's F-R-E-E-F-U-N-D-E-R.com, and we'll also have the link on our blog, or you can text the word Philip 2-2-0-6-6-7-2-7-2-2-2.

[SPEAKER_07]: And at the very least, if you could just share the story, whether it's on your socials, maybe your place of work does donation matching and you could bring this up as an option, just getting the word out is super helpful and donating is even more so.

[SPEAKER_07]: So thank you guys.

[SPEAKER_07]: Any help is appreciated.

[SPEAKER_07]: If you've listened to our recent episodes, man and blue van parts one and two, or you've been on our socials, you know that we were lucky enough to be invited by Carolyn Ocasio of the stolen voices of Dol Valley podcast, to attend the live event they were doing with survivors and Paul holes.

[SPEAKER_07]: While I hadn't been planning on doing that case any time soon, mostly because I hadn't realized how extensive the crimes of Warren Forest were, hearing from Carolyn sent me into a whirlwind of research and writing.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I got to say, I was pretty proud of myself to go from zero to an unexpected back-to-back two-part or episode in like a couple of weeks, which was only possible because Carolyn was kind enough to let me mooch off of her research.

[SPEAKER_07]: This could be a book, like it almost needs to be a book, because there are so many intricate details that on one hand, I know it's going to become a show or a documentary or something because it's so, it's just such a wild story, but you really almost need a book to say, every single piece of information.

[SPEAKER_04]: He had a car.

[SPEAKER_04]: He had his own car when he was in the mental institution.

[SPEAKER_07]: He sure did.

[SPEAKER_04]: Just driving around.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to go pop down to the store real quick.

[SPEAKER_07]: He sure did.

[SPEAKER_07]: As part of the promotion, we made a stop with our friends at Queen.

[SPEAKER_05]: True crime Tuesday, it has been more than 50 years since seven young women in teens went missing in Clark County.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now, a nine-part series, the stolen voices of Dolbali.

[SPEAKER_03]: Dives into the cases, and you can also peel back another layer of that conversation with the panel in listening event next Monday in Vancouver.

[SPEAKER_03]: So joining us to have talk about it.

[SPEAKER_03]: We have murder in the rain co-host, Elitahol, and you also have the host of the stolen voices of Dolbali killing a story over here with us this morning.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we have a third guest joining us via Zoom from Los Angeles.

[SPEAKER_03]: We have the show's producer, Brighton Morgan.

[SPEAKER_03]: Good morning to all three of you.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for being here this morning.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for having us.

[SPEAKER_03]: And Brandon, thanks for assuming in from Los Angeles.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to be great to get your thoughts here on that panel here in just a minute.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to start with both you, though, first, Carolyn, and Alicia.

[SPEAKER_03]: Just catch us up to speed on what this story is all about here in our own backyard.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm a journalist from Seattle.

[SPEAKER_02]: And when I heard about the Warren Forest case, I just...

[SPEAKER_02]: being here growing up here my entire life.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just couldn't believe that I'd never heard of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And but really what brought me to it was the victims and the survivors.

[SPEAKER_02]: And there's just so many layers to this case.

[SPEAKER_02]: Basically he was a serial killer, you know, a predator in the 70s, and he's been in jail for like 30 years, but there's so many uneducated cases that are attributed to him.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so the nine-part series really gives us the space to really go deep into these cases and really tell the stories and the ripple effect that it's had, you know, his crimes have had on this community.

[SPEAKER_05]: You talk about the war in forest.

[SPEAKER_05]: So what's the connection there between these cases and that space?

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, Warren forced in that, um, he was the prolific serial killer that probably a lot of people don't even know, you know, she had, she'd heard of him.

[SPEAKER_07]: So I shocked Carolyn Reached out and, uh, I had heard the name I remembered a few years ago.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, this man was caught with old DNA and, you know, new testing.

[SPEAKER_07]: Uh, and I listened to the nine part series and I could not believe that I was not aware at all about these cases, which is why murder in the rain covered it.

[SPEAKER_07]: Uh, we have an episode that's out today part one of two.

[SPEAKER_07]: which is kind of a companion piece that's basically the Cliffs Notes version you start with murdering the rain to get a basic idea of this massive case and then you move into stolen voices where you can hear these amazing interviews and powerful stories of survival.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's great.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then if you're at home too, and you want to continue to dig into this conversation, you do have that listening event in panel coming up that is Monday, December 8th, Brandon is who I want to bring you in with this panel that's happening at the AC Hotel in Vancouver.

[SPEAKER_03]: What are you hoping people can take away from being a part of this discussion?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, primarily when we want to attract the true crime fans who think that they've heard it all, you know, working in the industry for as long as I've had, I have you think you know everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then here's this guy that that no one's really heard of.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the main reason or one of the reasons is that he was active at the same time that Ted Bundy was in that area.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Bundy was attracting all of that attention and just kind of sucking up all of the media.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so this guy warned Forest was able to [SPEAKER_00]: to do what I basically whatever he wanted and Bundy was taking the heat for some of his crimes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so he was able to just exist under the radar for such a long time.

[SPEAKER_00]: And just scratching the surface on the case, you'll be amazed.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you think you have your true crime bona fides and you know the way of the land.

[SPEAKER_00]: I bet you this is someone that you haven't heard about.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the extent of his [SPEAKER_00]: It'll strike a chord.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it was certainly needed me.

[SPEAKER_05]: I thought we were talking about the war in forest.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, yeah, I've never even heard of that space.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that's just like, right in very Northwest.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: A familiar face to some coin viewers is your moderator, Dandelkin, who extensively covered some of these cases.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my gosh.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's a true hero with this case, the investigative reporting.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was so taken aback.

[SPEAKER_02]: I got to interview him, he invited me to his home, and invited me to all of his documents to share, because that's a thing about a 50-year case.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like it's really hard to get documents.

[SPEAKER_02]: People are sharing them back and forth, but through his work with Star, who's sister went missing, [SPEAKER_02]: they uncovered these these remains that had they thought were lost.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's because of them that that case Martha Morrison's was adjudicated in 2018.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, 2019.

[SPEAKER_02]: So anyway he's it's really great to showcase him in the work that he did so over so many years and he will be moderating the panel.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we're very excited that he's going to be joining us.

[SPEAKER_03]: It'll be great at it, you know, great journalist there, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And like you said, a lot of these cases inside and out there.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, this event is hosted by the local nonprofit, the National Women's Coalition against violence and exploitation.

[SPEAKER_03]: And WK, if you know as many people know them, why is that connection important to you?

[SPEAKER_03]: We only have about a minute left, but don't make sure we talk about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Michelle Bart is again, this story is about the horrible deeds that Warren Forest did in the background.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's about the heroes, the survivors, people who have never given up who have just the grit and determination to see these things through.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that is Michelle Bart from NWK, and they're helping host this entire thing for the victims for there.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's going to be a visual for Jamie.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's really about spotlighting the people who have helped solve these cases.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's great.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I'm not only that I do want to add real quick that [SPEAKER_07]: The real excitement is if you do listen to stolen voices and you come to the event, Paul Holes of Goldstake Killer fame will be there, and they're going to be talking about incredible updates to the case.

[SPEAKER_03]: Great.

[SPEAKER_03]: So go check that out, Brad.

[SPEAKER_03]: And thank you for your time.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for being here.

[SPEAKER_07]: So if you haven't listened to those episodes, we suggest you start with our two-partner to get just a basic idea of the timeline of the crimes because it is a lot.

[SPEAKER_07]: So get your footing with our take on the story, then do the deep dive into the amazing research Carolyn and her team at KSL podcast did.

[SPEAKER_07]: That way, when the inevitable documentary comes out, you'll be ahead of the crowd.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think our two-parter is a thorough primer for the entire case.

[SPEAKER_04]: It encapsulates everything really well, but there's a lot more breadth to it.

[SPEAKER_07]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, I just wanted to do kind of the cliff's notes because I went into it basically with no knowledge.

[SPEAKER_07]: And so listening through all of the parts, it was like, wow, where is this going to go?

[SPEAKER_07]: What is happening?

[SPEAKER_07]: And I feel like if I had kind of known the basics going in, I would have been able to take you in more detail from the nine-partner, you know, because it's not all new and all fresh.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's like you can really get into the nitty gritty, which Carolyn does.

[SPEAKER_07]: The event was hosted by Northwest Cave, the National Women's Coalition Against Violence and Exploitation.

[SPEAKER_07]: The night before on December 7, the 54th Anniversary of the disappearance of Jamie Grissum, who is believed to be the first victim of Warren Forest, a vigil was held at the Vancouver Waterfront, not far from where Jamie was last seen.

[SPEAKER_07]: Jamie's sister Star Laura gave a moving speech and thanked everyone for continuing to keep her name out there.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I couldn't help but be moved [SPEAKER_07]: It was almost warm out.

[SPEAKER_07]: The waters of the river were smooth.

[SPEAKER_07]: The sunset was breathtaking.

[SPEAKER_07]: And it was the antithesis of the record snowfall.

[SPEAKER_07]: Jamie had been in that night when she was walking home from school.

[SPEAKER_07]: The following evening, Carolyn Star, Norma Countryman, another survivor of Warren Forest brutality, producer-branded Morgan and investigator Paul Holes took to the stage and told the audience portions of the case.

[SPEAKER_07]: They shared videos and audio clips and they had a Q&A with local famed journalist Dan Tilkin.

[SPEAKER_07]: Towards the end of the evening, I was honored to be welcome to the stage to talk about our show and an idea that Josh had.

[SPEAKER_07]: So before I get into that, Josh, you and I were talking the night before the event, because while we were invited to attend, we were also invited to just talk about whatever we wanted to.

[SPEAKER_07]: which was kind of tricky because it was their thing and their event and their podcast.

[SPEAKER_07]: So I didn't want to get into that.

[SPEAKER_07]: So you and I were talking and you had a great idea, would you like to mention that?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I would, in fact, and I wasn't able to attend the event because I had to finish editing the second part of Man and Bluevian.

[SPEAKER_04]: But to prepare for that, and because it was inspiring for another project that we're working on, I was rereading, I'll be gone in the dark about Michelle McNamara and the hunt for the Golden State Killer, because Paul holes is integral to that case in that book.

[SPEAKER_04]: I thought it would be a good idea for Warren Forest who is really an unknown person, an unknown serial killer for how prolific he was that he should have a moniker as well.

[SPEAKER_04]: So that was what we talked about.

[SPEAKER_07]: The whole thing with Golden State was he had several names, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: He began, I think, as the East Area rapist, he was original night stalker.

[SPEAKER_04]: There might have been another one in there, I can't remember.

[SPEAKER_04]: But until Michelle McNamara coined the moniker of the Golden State killer, it didn't really ever get enough attention.

[SPEAKER_04]: and it was confusing.

[SPEAKER_04]: Those sorts of things can be confusing.

[SPEAKER_04]: Those acronyms for people who are killers can kind of take the humanity out of it or take the person away from, you know, and can less it interest.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I just thought I just was kind of inspired by that.

[SPEAKER_04]: I thought, oh, you should it should be a moniker like that.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I feel like you and I had the same thought almost at the same time that it should be the Emerald State Killer.

[SPEAKER_07]: Right, that was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_07]: And then when I attended the visual, I got to sit down with Carolyn Star and Norma, they're just amazing women, all three of them are incredible women and powerful and tenacious.

[SPEAKER_07]: And we were kind of touching base on just running through what the event would look like of.

[SPEAKER_07]: schedules and who's doing what Carolyn asked me if I had any thoughts of what to talk about.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I said, we can talk Pacific Northwest, we can talk hitchhiking in the 70s.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I brought you up and I said, well, Josh and I were talking and we thought about the marketing of it that [SPEAKER_07]: Warren's whole deal, that he kind of thrives in, is the fact that Bundy was happening at the same time.

[SPEAKER_07]: Grimner of her killer was happening at the same time.

[SPEAKER_07]: He did not want the attention.

[SPEAKER_07]: He was not trying to be flashy.

[SPEAKER_07]: He wasn't sending little clues to the police to egg them on.

[SPEAKER_07]: He did not want to be stopped.

[SPEAKER_07]: They loved the idea because any attention brought on him is negative in his eyes, right?

[SPEAKER_07]: So, to be able to kind, and I said, I hate to even say it this way, but it is marketing.

[SPEAKER_07]: It is about getting the attention.

[SPEAKER_07]: If you just say, Warren Forest, you'll, you probably just heard in the interview, the clip I played, Emma Jerome didn't know the story, and she thought we were talking about a literal forest, and she's like, wait, the Warren Forest, because we have an area of Oregon called Warren.

[SPEAKER_07]: right, because it shows that it's needed.

[SPEAKER_04]: Also, I believe a Warren and a, I mean, obviously a forest is a thing, but I think a Warren is also a thing.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it sounds like two things.

[SPEAKER_07]: Well, yeah, it sounds like the forest in Warren or again.

[SPEAKER_04]: So when also when we say, we're talking about marketing, it's not to make it cool or sexy or to make money or anything.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's [SPEAKER_04]: truly just to have an eye and ear catching name.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: It sounds good in that way, like the title of something sounds good, but it's not to mythologize him or make him something bigger than he was just to call attention to it.

[SPEAKER_07]: So the following evening when I was asked to come on stage, which was not only an honor, but a career highlight, a highlight of the year, to go on stage with this amazing group of people, and they wanted me to talk about that same idea of the marketing aspect of Warren Forest and his crimes, because [SPEAKER_07]: the whole point and goal of really bringing attention besides justice for the survivors and the victims and anyone who has touched this case, kind of knows that there are more victims and he's not telling where they are, especially Jamie Grissum.

[SPEAKER_07]: And the hope is his fear of going to jail because he's in prison, but if he were to go to trial with any other evidence.

[SPEAKER_07]: So let's say someone's [SPEAKER_07]: they can charge him and he'll have to come down to Vancouver and be in jail and jail is not a pleasant place for him to be, especially since he's known for harming young women and girls.

[SPEAKER_07]: So the whole idea behind the marketing, and again, I wish we could come up with a different word for that, is to bring attention to make him uncomfortable so that he does say where these bodies are.

[SPEAKER_07]: If you tell us where these bodies are, we're not going to go after you for them because you're already facing life, we just want to know where they are.

[SPEAKER_07]: So the goal is really get enough attention on him that he really, really doesn't want, and then he will maybe provide some answers for these families.

[SPEAKER_07]: That's the hope he's getting older.

[SPEAKER_07]: He's been in prison a long time.

[SPEAKER_07]: There are a lot of concerns that he will pass before this information comes out.

[SPEAKER_07]: So it's all about really bothering him, which I really love and fully support.

[SPEAKER_04]: We love to nag, we love to tattle.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, oh, yeah, love a tattle.

[SPEAKER_07]: They were even saying, you can write prisoners in that prison and jail wherever and say, hey, are you aware of foreign forests?

[SPEAKER_07]: Who he is and when he is done to bring that attention because he's kind of just existing, it sounds like.

[SPEAKER_07]: And the other thing which I spoke about in the episodes and at the event and I will keep talking about is that if you mention anything about his case, use hashtag war in forest because we were informed [SPEAKER_07]: He is aware of that.

[SPEAKER_07]: He knows that that's happening and he is not a fan, so keep it up.

[SPEAKER_07]: Let's keep doing that.

[SPEAKER_06]: Warren, Warren, do you like that?

[SPEAKER_07]: My name's Warren, we're on forest.

[SPEAKER_07]: So to stay up to date with everything Northwest cave is doing, be sure to follow them on Facebook.

[SPEAKER_07]: Make sure you listen to stolen voices of Dol Valley wherever you get your podcasts so you can hear this entire story.

[SPEAKER_07]: And like I said, you can write prisoners if you know of people or you can just pick some at random and become pent pals with people, making them aware of who Warren is.

[SPEAKER_07]: And again, just sharing the stories of the survivors of the victims and making him as well known as he should be.

[SPEAKER_04]: Just another, just sort of a devil's advocate, a question or something like that.

[SPEAKER_04]: What's the point of having, what's truly what's the point of writing prisoners to say this guy, is it like to get him murdered or like, [SPEAKER_04]: What do they think is going to what is like the truly the goal there?

[SPEAKER_04]: What do they say is the goal?

[SPEAKER_07]: What it sounded like in the thing is the goal is make him uncomfortable until he caves and tells where the bodies are.

[SPEAKER_07]: So kind of like we're going to keep bothering you.

[SPEAKER_07]: We're going to keep hashtagging your name.

[SPEAKER_07]: We're going to keep talking about you.

[SPEAKER_07]: People are going to keep writing you.

[SPEAKER_07]: People are going to be [SPEAKER_07]: telling other prisoners who you are, so they bother you, and maybe some thing will provide enough pressure for you to say what happened to these other women that are believed to have died at his hand.

[SPEAKER_07]: So it's a pressure campaign.

[SPEAKER_04]: I hope it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no.

[SPEAKER_04]: I come across as an intimidation camp.

[SPEAKER_07]: No, I totally understand.

[SPEAKER_07]: I'm a guy that you asked.

[SPEAKER_07]: No, it's not about sedishing to someone and saying, hey, go take this guy out.

[SPEAKER_07]: We don't want him dead.

[SPEAKER_07]: He has way too much information that is needed, because once he dies all of the secrets and all of his stories die with him.

[SPEAKER_07]: So without him, we don't know where Jamie's body is.

[SPEAKER_07]: We don't know where these other people are.

[UNKNOWN]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_07]: All right, so this part is totally out of left field and not in any way true crime related, but if you want to spread the word about something, why not do it here, right?

[SPEAKER_07]: A personal highlight of my year was volunteering with Camp Aaron.

[SPEAKER_07]: For those unfamiliar camp, Aaron is a free camp experience for children and teens who are grieving the death of someone close.

[SPEAKER_07]: Camp Aaron combines traditional camp experiences with grief support activities to provide an unforgettable day and or weekend of hope, healing and [SPEAKER_07]: For many kids and teens, Camp Aaron is the first time that they're able to discuss their grief without shame or stigma.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's an opportunity for their grief to be seen, supported, and honored in a comforting and uplifting space.

[SPEAKER_07]: I was lucky enough to spend the weekend working with the little kids at Camp.

[SPEAKER_07]: It was my first year there, and the first and only time it has rained the entire weekend, which was something.

[SPEAKER_07]: And selfishly, I got to say it totally filled my cup.

[SPEAKER_07]: So kids get on the list to attend camp through local hospitals and hospice.

[SPEAKER_07]: If they've lost someone close, like a parent, grandparents sibling, so forth, they can come to camp where the grief isn't the focus, but it's allowed to exist.

[SPEAKER_07]: I said it was kind of like, there's this big monster of grief and we're all shining our flashlights on it, but we know it's there, so we're just going to go play.

[SPEAKER_07]: I'm sharing this information because not only is the Portland area camp always looking for new volunteers, but there are camp errands across the country.

[SPEAKER_07]: You do not have to be any kind of expert.

[SPEAKER_07]: You don't have to be a counselor or a therapist and you don't have to be grieving, although I will say as someone who was grieving some people at the time, it helps you as the adult also, and you'll leave the weekend with a lot of tools and processing for yourself.

[SPEAKER_07]: So if you're good with kids and you're comfortable with grief, this could be an incredible opportunity.

[SPEAKER_07]: And there are all sorts of jobs you can have where it's maybe logistics, running things around, or maybe you work with the campers directly, or maybe you're a nurse, or a massage therapist.

[SPEAKER_07]: There's all sorts of opportunities.

[SPEAKER_07]: Additionally, there is flexibility in the volunteering time.

[SPEAKER_07]: You can stay all weekend like I did, but I stayed with my friend at camp, not with the kids.

[SPEAKER_07]: Other people stayed in the cabin with the kids, but I don't have kids for reasons.

[SPEAKER_07]: So I said, no thank you.

[SPEAKER_07]: There are also people that volunteer just for the day where they come to help monitor spaces or just to set up.

[SPEAKER_07]: There's also a single day camp in the fall, which I also participated in and it was a blast.

[SPEAKER_07]: If you have any questions about Camperon, please feel free to message us at murdering the rain at gmail.com.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I can help direct you to the right people.

[SPEAKER_07]: We'll also have a link on our blog or you can google your location Camperon.

[SPEAKER_07]: So Los Angeles Camperon.

[SPEAKER_07]: Vegas, New York.

[SPEAKER_07]: Maybe you were like me and you're feeling a need to do more and fill your cup by helping others, especially now that we go into a new year.

[SPEAKER_07]: Camp Erin could be a great fit, especially if you can listen to hard things like true crime and not be affected because it still is a grief camp and it's not super easy to listen to a six-year-old talk about grief.

[SPEAKER_07]: but it's also varying and inspiring and watching these children be so resilient through some of the worst things you've ever heard was incredible.

[SPEAKER_07]: So again, you can email us or you can google your location in camp air and I just can't suggest it enough and I think true crime fans are a good fit.

[SPEAKER_04]: That sounds so impossible for a little mind to be able to get through and it's cool that that exists.

[SPEAKER_04]: So it's very touching that that that that camp that camparian is is a thing.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's very cool.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's it's just such a cool thing.

[SPEAKER_07]: And trust me, you guys, like real talk, I am not the camper person.

[SPEAKER_07]: I am not the stand at the bus clapping cheering.

[SPEAKER_07]: I hated outdoor school.

[SPEAKER_07]: No, and it is just so not that it still is camp and you can make it whatever you want and the people are awesome, but it's not I guess it's more genuine because of the grief element maybe [SPEAKER_04]: Hot streamers.

[SPEAKER_07]: So as you know, we're on Patreon, we usually do some updates about what we're watching, what we're reading, what we're looking at, what we're in taking.

[SPEAKER_07]: And we're going to do a little here now because it's the end of the year and we want to talk about what we did rosy.

[SPEAKER_07]: All right, so we're not going to go through everything we watched this year because the list is very, very long.

[SPEAKER_07]: We'll choose some highlights and we'll start with TV.

[SPEAKER_07]: I think maybe the best show that we saw this year.

[SPEAKER_04]: The beast in me with clear dings and Matthew Reese.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_04]: Awesome, crime show.

[SPEAKER_04]: Is it eight episodes?

[SPEAKER_04]: I believe so.

[SPEAKER_04]: Perfect.

[SPEAKER_04]: Wrapped up.

[SPEAKER_04]: Got there.

[SPEAKER_04]: Bing, bang, boom, satisfying.

[SPEAKER_04]: I love this.

[SPEAKER_07]: So satisfying.

[SPEAKER_07]: That's the key word for that, I think.

[SPEAKER_04]: And surprising.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yep, not predictable.

[SPEAKER_07]: Super intense because for me, I'm happy to fall asleep something like Annabelle or Conjuring or whatever.

[SPEAKER_07]: That just knocks me out sleepy time.

[SPEAKER_07]: Beast and me touches on my actual biggest fear, which is not necessarily identity being stolen, but not being believed in people questioning who you are and [SPEAKER_07]: And the madness that that would bring and that kind of starts to happen and I forced my mom to watch it and she does not binge anything She watched it in one night, which is absolutely unheard of and she said in the last two episodes She got worried and she had to go take her blood pressure numbers like actual blood pressure [SPEAKER_07]: She has my heart.

[SPEAKER_07]: I have my palpitations.

[SPEAKER_07]: I had to go take my blood pressure.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's a good review.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: I was like, oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: My heart was way more than like a horror movie.

[SPEAKER_07]: She gets stuck in an impossible situation.

[SPEAKER_07]: Which is, which what makes for memorable story?

[SPEAKER_04]: Ah, uh.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's good.

[SPEAKER_07]: Another good one that you've yet to watch, but I did is perfect neighbor.

[SPEAKER_07]: I know a ton of people watch that one.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's the documentary done through the body cam footage.

[SPEAKER_07]: I found it fascinating.

[SPEAKER_07]: I really want you to watch it, Josh, because it's the whole process.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's from the first annoying phone calls to the trial.

[SPEAKER_07]: And there's no narrator.

[SPEAKER_07]: There's no producer.

[SPEAKER_07]: There's no secondary interviews.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's just the footage.

[SPEAKER_07]: And [SPEAKER_07]: to watch the entire process and what it was, which is so horrific on its own, was just unique and powerful.

[SPEAKER_07]: Another top contender for the year, I think, is Wayward.

[SPEAKER_04]: That was on Netflix, May Martin, and Tony Colette about a, well, a wayward teen.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, what was that place called, even as an Institute, a school of mental asylum for the place to take.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the place you take the bad kids.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah, if you like cults, if you like a what's going on here.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and May was awesome.

[SPEAKER_07]: Great.

[SPEAKER_07]: Speaking of May, they were also on task master, which we started watching this year, which is not true crime.

[SPEAKER_07]: That's what happened to me this year.

[SPEAKER_04]: I watched, I watched task master.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was great.

[SPEAKER_04]: We have watched, I believe there's 20 seasons and we have watched 17 or 18 of them.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but there are two years.

[SPEAKER_07]: So we're not going back 20 years, just 10.

[SPEAKER_07]: But we're almost caught up.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's been a hell of a journey.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's the best show on Earth.

[SPEAKER_04]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_07]: Every time I'm around a group of people, I get maniacal in my description of this show to get people to watch it.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's on YouTube.

[SPEAKER_07]: It is British.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's comedians trying to do simple tasks.

[SPEAKER_07]: And it's hilarious.

[SPEAKER_07]: And it's such a nice break.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's not political.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's not.

[SPEAKER_07]: anything, but it's also engaging enough that you don't want to be on your phone.

[SPEAKER_07]: You want to be solving the problems, too.

[SPEAKER_07]: You're like, how does that puzzle work?

[SPEAKER_07]: Where would that?

[SPEAKER_07]: How would I play that?

[SPEAKER_07]: So it's engaging while also being incredibly stupid.

[SPEAKER_04]: it's certainly not mindless entertainment.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's mindful entertainment.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm trying to figure out how I would do this.

[SPEAKER_04]: And when that you watched was Department Q.

[SPEAKER_04]: That was on that Flicks as well.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's a cool British series about a cold case missing persons unit that gets formed with this, uh, well, if these, this rag tag group of investigators and the first case they [SPEAKER_04]: a lot more active than they thought it was.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's a very good show.

[SPEAKER_07]: What a thrilling tease that one.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh wow, thank you.

[SPEAKER_04]: Call me Netflix.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'll write your synopsis.

[SPEAKER_04]: But that was great.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think that was six or eight episodes as well.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just a real, it's kind of similar to the beast in me where it just surprises you and it keeps doing that there throughout.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it was also sort of a redemptive of the characters that are that are doing the investigative thing.

[SPEAKER_04]: their offices in the basement of the police station.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's an old bathroom, like a giant.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, like they're walking on the other side.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's it's cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's a great show.

[SPEAKER_04]: Also, what else?

[SPEAKER_07]: Well, we've got two that are similar in the madness, which is the rehearsal and chair company.

[SPEAKER_07]: They are cousins to each other, I feel.

[SPEAKER_04]: Definitely.

[SPEAKER_04]: If not brothers.

[SPEAKER_04]: The most, yeah, [SPEAKER_07]: So if you like to feel uncomfortable and confused, maybe even scared, then the rehearsal and the chair company are for you.

[SPEAKER_07]: You're fucking pigs!

[SPEAKER_04]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha [SPEAKER_04]: I did make a very long, well, not even that long list of the notable movies that I watched this year.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: I could just go through them real quick.

[SPEAKER_04]: Do it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Here we go.

[SPEAKER_04]: This is going in reverse order.

[SPEAKER_04]: So the most recent thing we saw to the thing that happened the longest ago that I saw that I thought was cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: Kill Bill, the whole bloody affair, wake up dead man, double indemnity, murder by numbers, the cell, J-Lostile, night always comes, black phone two, the stepfather one and two, ticks with Seth Green and Elfanzo Ribeiro, plup, friendship, awesome.

[SPEAKER_04]: The bird with the crystal plumage, the hand with Michael Caine, where his hand gets exploded off of his body and then might be going around killing his enemies.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh my god, I forgot.

[SPEAKER_04]: A house of dynamite, which scared the hell out of me.

[SPEAKER_04]: The I know what you did last summer remake, which is pretty good except for that ending.

[SPEAKER_04]: I forgot about that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Sorry for that noise.

[SPEAKER_07]: No, it wasn't that was the appropriate response.

[SPEAKER_04]: I forgot what it was.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm setting bring her back, which was so messed up vicious with Dakota fanning, which was so messed up audition, which was so messed up near dark, which was so messed up.

[SPEAKER_04]: The long walk, dangerous animals, the accused.

[SPEAKER_04]: Wow, I watched some stuff.

[SPEAKER_04]: taking lives with Angelina Jolie, which is one of the worst movies ever made.

[SPEAKER_06]: So bad.

[SPEAKER_04]: God's country with Sandy Newton, sort of a revenge movie, sort of a city that was okay.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was awesome.

[SPEAKER_04]: Serenity with Matthew McConaughey and Anne Hatterlake.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, and my favorite badminton.

[SPEAKER_04]: And Marlin named Justice.

[SPEAKER_04]: sharp corner with the foster was awesome weapons obviously awesome Abigail about a little ballerina girl that Bites people's faces off.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think yeah, some boilers the monkey Yeah, yeah, I like monkey.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was fun as real with Samara weaving no Not almost no dialogue.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think maybe none in the whole movie so cool Drop much better than I thought yes cell phone intrigue [SPEAKER_04]: the woman in the yard, which sucked so hard, a cry in the dark where a dingo took a baby.

[SPEAKER_04]: That was a great move.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I think this year was very recently that she was fully exonerated.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it was within the last couple years that they're like, it's official.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's what's inside where people change their personalities, like their change their brains, you know, with other people's bodies.

[SPEAKER_04]: That was cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: The original, the vanishing.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, so good.

[SPEAKER_04]: One of the best.

[SPEAKER_04]: Crime movies, killer movies ever, just before Don, which I mentioned earlier, maybe it's in the cut, where a woman shoves her fist and forearm down a bad man's throat to death.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's great.

[SPEAKER_04]: Companion, sinners, slumber party massacre, to live in die in L.A.

[SPEAKER_04]: Last stop in Yuma County, the rule of Jenny Penn, which was awesome.

[SPEAKER_07]: And so great.

[SPEAKER_04]: So poopy.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was frailty.

[SPEAKER_04]: The one with Bill Paxon directed with Matthew McConaughey.

[SPEAKER_04]: So good.

[SPEAKER_04]: Den of thieves too, Pantera.

[SPEAKER_04]: Strange darling, which was so surprising and awesome.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that was cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: The French connection with Gene Hackman as Popeye Doyle, the name sake of Popeye's chicken.

[SPEAKER_04]: Look it up.

[SPEAKER_04]: We watch Y2K, but it's really like, oh, so fun.

[SPEAKER_04]: I watched Mr.

[SPEAKER_04]: Majestic, which is about Charles Bronson as a melon farmer who has to defeat the local mafia who are getting in on his melon business, the church, which is an Italian horror movie, where you see things you haven't seen before.

[SPEAKER_04]: And in a church, day of the animals were animals go crazy and start killing people on a sort of mountain trip.

[SPEAKER_04]: And Leslie Nielsen is a monster.

[SPEAKER_04]: Deep cover with Jeff Goldblum and Larry Fishburn, awesome crime movie about drugs.

[SPEAKER_04]: Sisters from 1972.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, that one really got wild.

[SPEAKER_04]: That was cool with Jude Law and a couple of awesome moustaches in it.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah, crap beefy boy.

[SPEAKER_04]: Gang in blue, which I don't remember.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, I do the best cop movie ever.

[SPEAKER_04]: Mario van Peoples and Josh Brolin and Mario van Peoples is a cop.

[SPEAKER_04]: They both are.

[SPEAKER_04]: And he finds out that there's a gang of white supremacists, um, uh, officers who are killing people criminals.

[SPEAKER_07]: you would not know it was not made today.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's it was really high quality.

[SPEAKER_07]: It was very poignant, very apropos to the political landscape in today.

[SPEAKER_04]: Sadly believable.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: We watched Mads.

[SPEAKER_04]: Love that one.

[SPEAKER_04]: That French one take movie that about zombies, I think.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, like an outbreak.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was great.

[SPEAKER_04]: Late phases, which is a werewolf movie about a blind Vietnam veteran fighting werewolves in his retirement community.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, duh.

[SPEAKER_04]: So good.

[SPEAKER_04]: That one was great.

[SPEAKER_04]: The shoot horses don't like.

[SPEAKER_04]: Do you want to cry?

[SPEAKER_04]: Don't you?

[SPEAKER_04]: We're feel sick for months after watching a movie.

[SPEAKER_04]: We watched that.

[SPEAKER_07]: Was that like January?

[SPEAKER_04]: We watched it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I believe so.

[SPEAKER_04]: Because I think I got it for you for Christmas.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: I have thought of that movie at least once a week since then.

[SPEAKER_04]: Can't stop.

[SPEAKER_07]: If not every couple days.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's true.

[SPEAKER_07]: There is something.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's for those who don't know.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's set in a 1920s dance marathon.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I had always heard of those about, oh, that'd be so fun.

[SPEAKER_07]: No, these marathons went on for months, literally like people gave up their lives to do this because they were so desperate to make some money.

[SPEAKER_07]: and it is basically, once you take away that, it's all about class warfare and using your body for work and injustice, and you could watch the movie the long walk, and they shoot horses, don't they, as a double feature?

[SPEAKER_04]: And they're about that.

[SPEAKER_07]: Be sick to your stomach.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's a very similar concept of you're doing this for the man instead of them helping you like they should.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I think of it constant.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they make you give everything.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's so bleak to get anything.

[SPEAKER_07]: I said that I want to watch it for New Year's Day because it's so damn bleak.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's good.

[SPEAKER_04]: I agree.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, just has really stayed with me.

[SPEAKER_04]: They celebrate New Year's, don't they?

[SPEAKER_04]: We also watched Getaway with Nick Frost and Ashling Bay from Taskmaster.

[SPEAKER_04]: That was a really cool twist on the people on vacation horror movie.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: I loved it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's fun.

[SPEAKER_04]: We also watched Amber Alert, which I don't remember much about, but I did enjoy and I loved Hayden Panateeer and the dude from Abbott, whose name I can't remember.

[SPEAKER_04]: Abbott Elementary from everyone's favorite right?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, that dude.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I feel like there was something with maybe it was some outlandish moments or something, [SPEAKER_07]: It was a good one.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's a kind of a fantasy fulfillment, too.

[SPEAKER_04]: You're like, oh, I followed that person.

[SPEAKER_04]: I would track them down to the ends of the earth.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I think we would.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I think you listening probably would as well.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then the classic, I believe it's a Christmas movie whoever slew anti-ru, which we must have watched close to Christmas last year, right after.

[SPEAKER_07]: Hagsploitation, my favorite genre.

[SPEAKER_04]: It is your favorite genre.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I love Shelley Winters now whoever slew is no what's the matter with Helen by far no, but it's a fun Christmas one.

[SPEAKER_07]: And if you're looking for other Christmas horrors, you didn't have this on your list, but we found some gems this year.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I didn't even think about it.

[SPEAKER_07]: If people are still doing the holiday thing, which why not?

[SPEAKER_07]: We had the advent calendar, which was French, French and German shutter and so good.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, a new favorite one of one of the best holiday horror movies, one of the best holiday movies, one of the best and one of the best horror movies of the year for sure.

[SPEAKER_04]: I love it completely surprised the entire time by what that movie did.

[SPEAKER_04]: Remember with that dog in that car part where the dog and the car, [SPEAKER_04]: member and the car kind of moved around.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: The voodoo car.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_04]: Just don't say no more.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh my god.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: And the other new classic that we'll be adding to the rotation is there's something in the barn.

[SPEAKER_07]: Which was in Norway.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, set in Norway, starring with Martin Star as the star.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, from Freaks and Geeks in Silicon Valley.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was great.

[SPEAKER_04]: There's something in the barn.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's not good.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it was a real holly jolly Christmas.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, when we were watching it, I believe I said that.

[SPEAKER_04]: there's something in the barn is what the film crampus should have been.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, it had that right mix of nastiness and really sharp humor and kind of bumbling parent Christmas vacation stuff too.

[SPEAKER_07]: And it's fun because they're Americans in Norway.

[SPEAKER_07]: So the Norwegian people are like, [SPEAKER_07]: Okay everyone just calmed down.

[SPEAKER_07]: You're being crazy Americans, which is always fun to see.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it was great.

[SPEAKER_04]: I really enjoyed it.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was another one where I was just I was surprised at the quality of it and how it took clever turns.

[SPEAKER_04]: I loved it.

[SPEAKER_07]: And it was kind of fun.

[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, there's some heavy violence and blood, but not super gory.

[SPEAKER_07]: It was pretty zany.

[SPEAKER_07]: I thought it was kind of zany.

[SPEAKER_07]: And what it is in the barn, [SPEAKER_07]: that is looking to step into horror, holiday horror.

[SPEAKER_07]: This is definitely a perfect starting point.

[SPEAKER_04]: I watched a little nasty movie from 1980 called to all a good night, which is your basic slasher set up where I mean it just kicks off in the first two minutes, there's no art to any of the kills.

[SPEAKER_04]: It basically like, here's the person that's going to be killed, here's the guy dressed up as Santa and he basically just walks up to them and murders them, but it was good.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how to explain it, but it had that really good sort of, uh, it was like watching the original prom night or something where it's a little goofy, but boy, it just went straight ahead into these kills.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was just like, kill, kill, kill.

[SPEAKER_04]: It had a really pretty clever ending where it, uh, well, you just can't really figure who the, the killer is.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then it's like, oh, shit.

[SPEAKER_04]: I really liked it, but it was when I never watched before and also the cover art [SPEAKER_04]: But Christmas.

[SPEAKER_07]: So it's December 25th.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, I mean, it was in the same year.

[SPEAKER_04]: It came out the same year, I believe.

[SPEAKER_04]: So it's kind of that level of artistry, you know, two, three years after Halloween.

[SPEAKER_07]: And as always, black Christmas.

[SPEAKER_07]: One of the best.

[SPEAKER_07]: I grow to love it more every time I watch it.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's so scary.

[SPEAKER_07]: There are people that complain about the tropes in the movie, but the issue is it was the first to do it.

[SPEAKER_07]: So any issue, if you're like, oh, I've seen this a million times.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's because of that movie.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's super feminist.

[SPEAKER_07]: It kicks ass.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's gorgeous, too.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: The 70s Christmas kitchen glow.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it's just beautiful.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's amazing how well-made it is for being a movie like that.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I guess it's before people before they felt they could just kind of make crappy ones.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: He wanted to do a good job.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's great.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's by Bob Clark, who did Christmas.

[SPEAKER_07]: He was a Christmas boy.

[SPEAKER_04]: Just so cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, and we learned that he was friends with John Carpenter.

[SPEAKER_04]: he didn't want to do a sequel to Black Christmas and John Carpenter and him kind of had a talk and Carpenter was like, oh, what I kind of have this idea, do you mind if I take it and run with it and then it turned into Halloween?

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, he was like, hey, what would you have done if it was a sequel?

[SPEAKER_07]: If you had a second party's like, oh, he would have gotten caught and then he got out of the mental institution and he's like terrorizing people in the house.

[SPEAKER_07]: He's like, cool, I'm going to make it Halloween.

[UNKNOWN]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_07]: So Halloween, fun, freaking fact, is a Jason Lee, a sequel to Black Christmas.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: Michael Myers is Billy.

[SPEAKER_07]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_07]: You like that?

[SPEAKER_07]: And now we'll leave Hot Streamers for Josh's Library Corner.

[SPEAKER_07]: Library Corner.

[SPEAKER_07]: I don't have as many names.

[SPEAKER_07]: No, we can't leave now.

[SPEAKER_07]: Now we're leaving Hot Streamers for Josh's Library Corner.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't have many.

[SPEAKER_04]: Here's some of the things I read.

[SPEAKER_04]: I did read other books, but they're not worth mentioning.

[SPEAKER_07]: Hey, man, no.

[SPEAKER_07]: Mostly check in much.

[SPEAKER_06]: Always with your smart.

[SPEAKER_04]: I read the ruin of all witches by Malcolm Gaskill.

[SPEAKER_04]: That was about the Springfield Massachusetts Witch Panic and Trials and things.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it was real good.

[SPEAKER_04]: Did you know that people used to think there were witches, and then they would kill him?

[SPEAKER_04]: I've heard.

[SPEAKER_04]: I recommend this book.

[SPEAKER_04]: Right now, I'm just about to finish horror movie by Paul Tremblay, which is a very meta approach to a horror movie.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's about people making a horror movie, and then later on, some other people remaking this lost horror movie.

[SPEAKER_04]: But the making of the movie and the remaking of the movie seem like parallels to one another, and also there's a there's like a the screenplay for the movie that they actually filmed and that's kind of a parallel.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's very cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of like the same story as happening three times.

[SPEAKER_07]: That's cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I really like it.

[SPEAKER_04]: I also read a very creepy book called The Fifth Child by Doris Lessing that is parental horror, I would say.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's about this very happy couple.

[SPEAKER_04]: I believe they're British, and they have two or three kids, and then they have a fourth, fourth one.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think the third and fourth are accidental.

[SPEAKER_04]: The fifth one comes out of nowhere, and the fifth one is different than a normal human child.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's hard to tell what this [SPEAKER_07]: that's intriguing.

[SPEAKER_04]: I loved it and it was about 140 pages long.

[SPEAKER_06]: So he zipped through it in like a day.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I also read on writing by Stephen King.

[SPEAKER_04]: I read that one.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's one of one of of his best books and a great inspiration for anyone who's trying to put words on a page to tell a thing.

[SPEAKER_07]: I would say some of those tips are good just in general for life.

[SPEAKER_07]: I think of it when I do texting.

[SPEAKER_07]: I was like, oh, extra words.

[SPEAKER_07]: Let me clear this out.

[SPEAKER_07]: Let me make this more concise.

[SPEAKER_04]: Really practical.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And just a really great book about him and what his influences are.

[SPEAKER_07]: Like mumbo number five.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's not in that book, but yes.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Google that as well.

[SPEAKER_04]: Steven King Mamo number five.

[SPEAKER_07]: I'm not saying his marriage.

[SPEAKER_07]: Almost got divorced more than cocaine.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then I read a good mafia story by Chuck Hogan who I believe maybe wrote the town called gangland.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of like a Donnie Brasco-ish story except the dude isn't like so he's like undercover but not really an [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, oh, oh, am I gonna bring the the mafia down and they're gonna bring me down and then I read shadowland by Peter Straub and that's sort of a [SPEAKER_04]: I would call it a grown-up Harry Potter, that's one of the poll quotes on the book and it did give me that feeling, but only in the best way, or it's really about magic and mentorship and the darkness and lightness of magic, and it was really, it was really [SPEAKER_04]: The only time I've read about something that was magical that made me feel it and see it.

[SPEAKER_04]: No.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it was cool.

[SPEAKER_07]: That's nice.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then I read a book that was adapted into a movie.

[SPEAKER_04]: I haven't watched it yet, but it's with Sam Rockwell.

[SPEAKER_04]: The book is called a single shot.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's one of my favorite crime novels that I've ever read.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's a very spare sort of like a Kormack McCarthy book, but not as difficult to parse and understand, but it's a really straight ahead crime thriller about something this guy goes out.

[SPEAKER_04]: He fires his gun once, that's the single shot, and it causes all of this catastrophe and clueless.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, fascinating.

[SPEAKER_04]: and how it sort of makes him break down over the course of this week.

[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, I loved it.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was so glad to have found it.

[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like I said cool a lot, but they were.

[SPEAKER_07]: Well, that's great.

[SPEAKER_07]: And you're cool.

[SPEAKER_07]: Thanks, dude.

[SPEAKER_07]: And we'll have information about all of those books on our blog.

[SPEAKER_07]: And as usual, you can pick them up at local libraries, local bookstores, thriftbooks.com, books a million, so on and so forth.

[SPEAKER_07]: Reading is fundamental.

[SPEAKER_07]: Josh's library corner.

[SPEAKER_07]: So that brings the year to an end, 20, 25, we stayed alive.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's weird to live in the future and have the future be pretty mundane and a little awful.

[SPEAKER_04]: A little.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, we're here for alive.

[SPEAKER_07]: We all have each other.

[SPEAKER_04]: We have each other.

[SPEAKER_04]: So it's not that's true.

[SPEAKER_04]: But the thing, every, it seems like every other thing out there is.

[SPEAKER_07]: So, what can you expect from us for 20, 20, 6?

[SPEAKER_07]: That's the big question.

[SPEAKER_07]: What are we doing?

[SPEAKER_07]: Well, we don't know.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's the future, man.

[SPEAKER_04]: I am glad that I don't, I'm not required to know that now, because I do, I do not.

[SPEAKER_04]: The only thing I know is that you applied for us to go to CrimeCon next time.

[SPEAKER_07]: I have applied, so we're waiting to hear Fingy's cross that we will get to go back, because we've missed seeing everybody and giving hugs and handing out goodies and just talking to people, so we're hoping to get back now that we are back to being us and our show.

[SPEAKER_07]: We're going to keep having episodes every other week, every Tuesday, we'll have true crime Tuesday, every Tuesday, something has changed with that in that now, the company that owns the local affiliate will not give us our links.

[SPEAKER_07]: So that's why you're not seeing the true crime Tuesday.

[SPEAKER_07]: On our feet anymore, you'll have to go to YouTube to watch those.

[SPEAKER_07]: What?

[SPEAKER_07]: I know.

[SPEAKER_07]: Why?

[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_07]: I think whoever owns the station [SPEAKER_07]: big time.

[SPEAKER_07]: We're also hoping that there'll be some other live events.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's possible, Carolyn, we'll be doing another event about Warren Forest up in Seattle.

[SPEAKER_07]: So we'll keep you posted on if that happens and win and if we will be joining, which we hope to be.

[SPEAKER_07]: We also hope to hear from crime concerns.

[SPEAKER_07]: We'll let you know if we'll be in Vegas, mild, stomp and grounds, what's up, Charleston and Lamb, and we've got some other things in the works that aren't quite at a point to be talking about, but other shows that we want to do live shows with and other people we're going to be pairing up with you episodes, so you'll just have to stay tuned as usual.

[SPEAKER_04]: Apped Christmas and Merry Chrysler.

[SPEAKER_07]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_07]: So happy all the holidays to everyone.

[SPEAKER_07]: Happy new year.

[SPEAKER_07]: I am just glad we got through it.

[SPEAKER_07]: You're here.

[SPEAKER_07]: We're all here and I guess all that's up to say is 2025 can suck my balls who knows what could happen by this time next year, you know, who knows what could happen.

[SPEAKER_06]: And that's why we have each other.

[SPEAKER_06]: Do you have any parting words?

[SPEAKER_06]: Jesus is here, not rapture words, well it's it's Christmas Eve, but not when they hear this Jesus is here, all right, that's what I was trying.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, that was my Christmas catchphrase.

[SPEAKER_06]: I was so sorry.

[SPEAKER_06]: I didn't know you'd been working.

[SPEAKER_04]: I went all down my list for weeks.

[SPEAKER_04]: I seriously thought that was going to be a huge hit.

[SPEAKER_04]: So, all right.

[SPEAKER_04]: Jesus is here?

[SPEAKER_04]: No, I wouldn't say it like that.

[SPEAKER_04]: I said it declaratively.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh.

[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't say Jesus is here?

[SPEAKER_06]: No, I didn't say Jesus.

[SPEAKER_04]: Here I said Jesus is here.

[SPEAKER_04]: Did I sound like a question to me?

[SPEAKER_04]: Can we go inside?

[SPEAKER_06]: Just let you have your final word to our listeners.

[SPEAKER_04]: Jingle bell.

[SPEAKER_04]: So bell was my final word.

[SPEAKER_04]: Now word.

[SPEAKER_06]: We love you all.

[SPEAKER_06]: Take care of yourselves.

[SPEAKER_06]: Take care of each other.

[SPEAKER_06]: Be nice when you can.

[SPEAKER_06]: Nog.

[SPEAKER_07]: Children often share it.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm so sorry.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm trying to hold the sneeze forever.

[SPEAKER_04]: I couldn't hold the sneeze.

[SPEAKER_04]: What did they do?

[SPEAKER_06]: Let's see here a grown man sneeze.

[SPEAKER_06]: Come out as.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I put my face up to my arm.

[SPEAKER_04]: I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't [SPEAKER_07]: Well, the next time I will cover my face.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, it's much flesh as possible.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, that's okay.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just saying I had the time to do it because I was like, I'm going to sneeze.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm still going to sneeze.

[SPEAKER_04]: I sneeze twice already.

[SPEAKER_04]: This one's gonna be a doozy.

[SPEAKER_07]: Did you as burping response?

[SPEAKER_07]: I didn't mean to.

[SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry, sorry.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_04]: Friday, good, good, good.

[SPEAKER_04]: Friday, good, good, good.

[SPEAKER_07]: Trying to go straight into words, it's a good Friday good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good what's that fun word for when they're kind of patchy white and brown palenino I love that word sounds exotic like a drink or a horse [SPEAKER_04]: I guess this could be it could be whatever genitals you have okay you grab them or whatever you do with them okay doing it and then the other person grabs your wrist and does it for you and so they're not really doing anything to you sort of I see it's I don't know what a Dutch rudder is a real one but I assume it has something to do with your genitals [SPEAKER_04]: not yours everyone my last name is Holland ever oh my gosh I I'm the originator of the Dutch my name is Dutch Rudder would you like one throw out yeah oh sorry what oh if I bother you by saying that [SPEAKER_07]: Oh no, I just got quite because I said man in the blue van and you're saying I said the man in the blue van and I didn't want to argue about where the vote was, it didn't matter.

[SPEAKER_04]: Because there's none.

[SPEAKER_07]: I know.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I was trying to agree with you.

[SPEAKER_04]: I messed up again.

[SPEAKER_07]: What's new typical husband screw up man?

[SPEAKER_07]: My, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.