[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, it is summer, and it is time for another update.

[SPEAKER_04]: Today's a beefy one, as we'll be talking about a settlement in the Mani Ellis case, a documentary about Kathleen Joe Henry and Veronica Abachuk, a drag fundraiser, an update to Tika Lewis, his disappearance, and some chatter about books and shows that we've been enjoying, so let's get into it.

[SPEAKER_04]: First, let's start with some good news.

[SPEAKER_04]: Have you ever heard of that, Josh?

[SPEAKER_04]: Good news?

[SPEAKER_04]: Good news.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it means it's good things to hear about, which I thought might be a little different for everybody.

[SPEAKER_04]: Who right?

[SPEAKER_04]: So you might have heard no matter where you're listening from, because it made worldwide headlines.

[SPEAKER_04]: But back in July of twenty twenty three, Dar Selz, Portland's ultimate drag show place, which has been opened fun fact since nineteen sixty seven, which is two years before the Stonewall riots.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was the host to the World Record Shattering Dragathon.

[SPEAKER_04]: Set up as a Guinness World Record attempt to bring attention to the art of drag, Darcell's show plays, and as a fundraiser for the Trevor Project, which is a nonprofit that focuses on providing resources and supporting LGBTQIA-US+.

[SPEAKER_04]: Youth, the show ran for Getness, an incredible.

[SPEAKER_04]: Forty-eight hours, eleven minutes, and thirty seconds straight.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's two days.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, eleven minutes and thirty seconds.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, straight.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, and through all those hours, there were six hundred musical performances, including hosts and performers like Yuriko, Hera, La La Rhea, peppermint, Fred Armison, Paula Pal, Carrie Brownstein, Frankie Grande, Punky Johnson, Stacey London, John Cameron Mitchell, Busy Phillips, members of the band, Portugal, the man, and many more grace the stage, and they earned over three hundred and eleven thousand dollars for the Trevor Project.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's three hundred thousand dollars plus eleven thousand dollars.

[SPEAKER_05]: I know it's very exciting.

[SPEAKER_05]: Did you see John Cameron Mitchell?

[SPEAKER_05]: I did.

[SPEAKER_05]: Is that head wig in the angry inch?

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yes.

[SPEAKER_04]: It is head wig.

[SPEAKER_04]: Good job.

[SPEAKER_05]: Great inch.

[SPEAKER_04]: Sadly, I did not make it down to the show, but I did make it to the fashion film showing of Madonna's Truth or Dare at the Hollywood Theater a few weeks ago.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I had the honor of being one of the very first people to see some of the initial footage that is being put together for the documentary they are making about the event called Dragothorn.

[SPEAKER_04]: After we saw some of the moving and exciting footage, and we got to see the trailer, they asked for donations as they're still funding the film.

[SPEAKER_04]: And a company was offering a twenty five hundred dollar match, and that night, Dragathon was able to raise five thousand dollars, which was also incredibly exciting.

[SPEAKER_04]: And to get you excited about Dragathon, here is a clip from the trailer.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's punk Drake, Queens and country Drake, Queens and Ball Drake, Queens and Pirated Drake, Queens and you just have to be open to it all.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to leave tonight.

[SPEAKER_03]: I just want to be here.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is the place to be.

[SPEAKER_03]: When I first found Dragon, it was a place for me to learn how to heal.

[SPEAKER_03]: Everything coming in about me was beat out of me.

[SPEAKER_03]: But what did it know?

[SPEAKER_03]: What beat out of me?

[SPEAKER_00]: You are not on my level.

[SPEAKER_02]: Marathon attempts are not the ones you want to do, because there's a switch that happens in every marathon attempt where you say, oh no, this was not a good idea.

[SPEAKER_04]: I am completely overwhelmed.

[SPEAKER_04]: The point of the documentary is to counter all of the hate that's in the world right now.

[SPEAKER_04]: Drag performers are literally under attack as is their art form.

[SPEAKER_04]: And as they say, dragathon is meeting hate with joy.

[SPEAKER_04]: And as the website says, meeting hate with joy is a forever reminder that in twenty twenty three, a little theater in Portland, Oregon, beamed out a ray of sparkly glitter love.

[SPEAKER_04]: So be prepared to immerse yourself in the world of drag, not just as a performance, but as a community, and see what is possible when a small group bands together to meet hate with the only thing they can.

[SPEAKER_04]: Joy.

[SPEAKER_04]: And also a shoutout to the clothing store Wild Fang and their team because they came up with the entire idea of dragathon and they continued to create inclusive clothing.

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so here's how you can help and we can continue spreading the joy of glitter and supporting each other.

[SPEAKER_04]: Visit dragethon.com at the top.

[SPEAKER_04]: You'll see a donate button.

[SPEAKER_04]: Click that and you can make a one time or a monthly donation.

[SPEAKER_04]: Anything you can give will help get this movie out to more people.

[SPEAKER_04]: And as they taught us at the screening for an LGBTQIA-US-plus child, their chance of surviving into adulthood and not dying by suicide is lessened by forty percent if they have even one trusted and accepting adult in their life.

[SPEAKER_04]: If this movie can reach just one kiddo, and perhaps say not so accepting place, they might not feel so alone, and this film could literally save lives.

[SPEAKER_04]: So again, that is dragathon.com and please give what you can.

[SPEAKER_04]: And at the very least, if you could please share this information with your friends, send out some texts, put it on your socials, [SPEAKER_04]: If everyone just gave a couple dollars, that would be incredible, and really help get this movie out.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm excited to see it, and I'm excited to see what it does in the world.

[SPEAKER_04]: Are we going to donate a little bit of money?

[SPEAKER_04]: I donated that night at the screening.

[SPEAKER_04]: Wonderful.

[SPEAKER_04]: And yes, as a show, we will be donating to DragathonDocumentary.com.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'd like to watch that.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm very excited to see it.

[SPEAKER_04]: I love a doc.

[SPEAKER_04]: I love a hot dog.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, love a hot dog.

[SPEAKER_04]: Give me that info.

[SPEAKER_04]: Give me those fun facts and usually pretty rotten facts.

[SPEAKER_05]: Check it out.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's the joy of documentaries.

[SPEAKER_04]: Make me sad.

[SPEAKER_04]: But then uplift me.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_04]: Bring me down so you can bring me up.

[SPEAKER_04]: Now onto a huge development from a long, cold case.

[SPEAKER_04]: On July, fourth, in the day is surrounding Independence Day.

[SPEAKER_04]: Teresa was last seen with her twenty-nine-year-old boyfriend, Mark San Fratello.

[SPEAKER_04]: During a party believed to have been on the fourth, the couple was seen walking into a wooded area in Selma or again, which is not far outside Grant's pass.

[SPEAKER_04]: At some point an argument ensued between the two, apparently about Mark learning that Theresa was having an affair, and she was never seen again.

[SPEAKER_04]: She was reported missing, and it was clear her disappearance was suspicious.

[SPEAKER_04]: There wasn't enough information or evidence to charge her boyfriend or anyone else for that matter.

[SPEAKER_04]: There wasn't even a body or proof that she had died.

[SPEAKER_04]: It would take fourteen years for a clue to be found, and that clue was Theresa's skull.

[SPEAKER_04]: After it was shown that that was her skull, there were searches for more clues and remains, but there was nothing.

[SPEAKER_04]: In twenty twenty four, Theresa's case was reopened.

[SPEAKER_04]: Then out of the blue, on June twenty seventh of this year, with help from the Chico Police Department, an arrest was made, forty two years after Theresa was last seen.

[SPEAKER_04]: The now a seventy-two-year-old Mark Sandfrontello, Teresa's boyfriend, and the last person seen with her, was arrested and charged with her murder.

[SPEAKER_04]: It turned out that when the case was reopened, investigators either came across or were finally able to test DNA from Teresa's case, and it was found to have belonged to Mark.

[SPEAKER_04]: He was indicted by a Josephine County grand jury and arrested the following day.

[SPEAKER_04]: He is to be extradited to Oregon or he may have already been and we'll see if he ends up taking a deal or going to trial.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not really sure there's enough information surrounding the case at this point to be able to do an episode, but we will keep you updated on any new developments.

[SPEAKER_04]: And we want to give a special thanks to our friend Lisa at coin six for bringing this story to our attention because she knows we love a cold case update and especially a long awaited karmic slap.

[SPEAKER_04]: Josh, I know you love that forty two years later, knock knock.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's one of my favorite things.

[SPEAKER_05]: You're done, baby.

[SPEAKER_05]: They've been.

[SPEAKER_05]: They've known that knock is coming.

[SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.

[SPEAKER_05]: This whole time.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it was not a wonderful life.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, I'd be fascinated to talk to someone, not as a murderer or anything like that, but just someone living their life, all those years.

[SPEAKER_04]: Did you have solicitors and every time someone came to the door, you thought, oh my God, this is it, or did you push it out of your mind?

[SPEAKER_04]: So it didn't exist.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'd be so fascinated by that.

[SPEAKER_04]: What do those years look like for the person that has air quotes gotten away with it?

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure they appreciate every day and live it to the fullest.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yes, and only better themselves after they've made the horrible mistakes they've made.

[SPEAKER_04]: Just kidding.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they never do that.

[SPEAKER_04]: All right, now we've got yet another update to the Mani Ellis case out of Tacoma, Washington.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to do a recap here because you can listen to his full story on our episode unknown trouble, which is for free on our Patreon or on our YouTube page.

[SPEAKER_04]: I've covered his case in several update episodes, so you can listen through those and get his entire story.

[SPEAKER_04]: But today we just have an update.

[SPEAKER_04]: Emmanuel Mani Ellis was murdered by Tacoma police officers on March third, twenty-twenty.

[SPEAKER_04]: The three officers involved, just so no one ever forgets, were Christopher Burbank, Matthew Collins, and Timothy Rinky.

[SPEAKER_04]: And they were all acquitted.

[SPEAKER_04]: In twenty-twenty-two, Pierce County paid a four million dollar settlement to Mani's family to resolve a lawsuit over the police departments involvement in the restraint and flawed investigation.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was requested by the involved parties and the public at large, that then Governor of Washington, Jay Inslee, [SPEAKER_04]: reopen the investigation and examine it.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I do believe that they did do that and it was completed but nothing really changed.

[SPEAKER_04]: The update today is that recently the city of Tacoma settled another lawsuit with Mani's family.

[SPEAKER_04]: The six million dollar payment is directly due to Mani's homicide while in police custody.

[SPEAKER_04]: Ellis family lawyer James Bible said quote, this settlement in and of itself is recognition of wrongdoing and recognition that there still needs to be improvement in the interactions between law enforcement and specifically communities of color and those that find themselves in poverty.

[SPEAKER_04]: There's a question as to how much power minorities and people with little means have in our system, which makes lasting change difficult.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I think we are on our way.

[SPEAKER_04]: If you heard the update about Officer Ranki and his history of excessive force, you will not be surprised to learn another lawsuit remains unsettled with the city of Tacoma, that one focuses on the excessive force used by Ranki and his former partner Mayesh Ford.

[SPEAKER_04]: Just three months before Ranki was responsible for Mani's death, he knelt on a man's back while the man called out his inability to breathe.

[SPEAKER_04]: It is the worst broken record that we just have to keep hearing over and over again.

[SPEAKER_04]: And as usual, I feel like I can say with near certainty that the taxpayers of Pierce County and the city of Tacoma would much rather have that ten million dollars go to making improvements in their communities.

[SPEAKER_04]: And the Ellis family would rather have their loved one back than to be dealing with settlements and lawsuits.

[SPEAKER_04]: So again, keep you guys posted on that remaining lawsuit.

[SPEAKER_04]: The family continues to seek justice in any way that they can and it really sucks that it has to be financial because that's not really justice.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's just I'm writing a check and saying, yeah, sorry about that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Here you go.

[SPEAKER_04]: And speaking of Tacoma, Josh, you have some interesting information because of a book you recently read.

[SPEAKER_05]: I do.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's a book called Murderland by Caroline Fraser, and it's all about the Pacific Northwest, the plague of serial murders that we had throughout the seventies, up in through the nineties, and how there may be environmental factors that played a part in the creation of these people.

[SPEAKER_04]: And what you've told me of this, it's fascinating because we do often, maybe the question we're asked the most, what is with the Pacific Northwest that we have all these famous serial killers.

[SPEAKER_04]: And we usually say, oh, the I-five, the waterways, the trees, the amount of nature that allows for people to hide things.

[SPEAKER_04]: But this book goes into more the man-made pollution and the effects that had.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and it focuses mostly on Tacoma, which was a huge industry town, a hundred years ago.

[SPEAKER_05]: And the smoke stacks they had, and the waste runoff that would just come from processing these metals, you know, shot lead and arsenic into the sky, painted the town with lead and arsenic, and it seeped into the ground, and it's in the water, and, you know, pets would walk around and lick their paws and die.

[SPEAKER_05]: laundry on the line would turn like weird colors people you know it's crazy how incredibly polluted that area is and how many of these serial killers grew up in the flow of these smelters and industrial plants and how the Latin arsenic likely played a part in what they became.

[SPEAKER_04]: It sounds like that could either be added to or maybe take over that list.

[SPEAKER_04]: The things that serial killers have in common, you know, being adopted, abused, head injury, so on and so forth.

[SPEAKER_04]: It sounds like this could either be at the very top of that list or maybe it's own list.

[SPEAKER_04]: And you were saying, if you could tease the people because I'm hoping we're going to do an interview with this author because this is so fascinating.

[SPEAKER_05]: And she's from the area.

[SPEAKER_05]: She grew up on Mercer Island.

[SPEAKER_05]: Close to where a lot of those people were Ted Bundy was there.

[SPEAKER_05]: Charles Manson was in prison on McNeill Island for five years.

[SPEAKER_05]: Israel keys grew up near, I think in Colville, I think he grew up near an industrial plant.

[SPEAKER_05]: Jerry Brutos, Gary Ridgeway.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's just unbelievable how many connections there are.

[SPEAKER_05]: We know that lead in arsenic has it effect on people's minds.

[SPEAKER_05]: It can make them aggressive.

[SPEAKER_05]: It can have a effect on their mental health.

[SPEAKER_05]: Tacoma, the industry there used to be the thing that people talked about.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like it was because there was so much money generated that it was some great thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: But apparently the town still smells like industry.

[SPEAKER_05]: And there's a passage I want to read from the book about the refurbishment of the area into coma and what it is now.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is a part of Tacoma that is now called Rustin Point.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's a waterfront.

[SPEAKER_05]: There's condos and, you know, it's like the waterfront here in Portland or in Vancouver.

[SPEAKER_05]: Businesses, condos, restaurants, all sorts of stuff.

[SPEAKER_05]: And beneath that is this quote.

[SPEAKER_05]: So the local awful, arsenic and lead is entombed in a gargantuan dump behind the condos and luxury hotel.

[SPEAKER_05]: held in what amounts to the largest garbage bag in the world, a three-ply plastic bag officially dubbed an onsite containment facility, consisting of a containment cell of multiple liners, a collection system, and a leaked detection system.

[SPEAKER_05]: Inside the bag are the smelters ancient arsenic kitchen and the remains of its fine ore bins building, as well as thousands of tons of arsenic contaminated soil from the short-lived lead smelter in Everett.

[SPEAKER_05]: In Congress monument, capped with top soil, the toxic hump will sit there, perhaps forever, trespassers discouraged by chainlink, signages' thirst, reading, restricted area keep out.

[SPEAKER_05]: There's no further explanation.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, that is fascinating.

[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for sharing from Josh's book corner.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's great.

[SPEAKER_05]: I loved it.

[SPEAKER_05]: I read through the whole thing in like two days, I think.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's, I don't know, eight thousand pages.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's like four hundred.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my God.

[SPEAKER_04]: You got through that so fast.

[SPEAKER_04]: And if you are interested in getting your own copy of Murderland by Caroline Fraser, this is not an ad.

[SPEAKER_04]: We are not sponsored.

[SPEAKER_04]: She does not know we're doing this.

[SPEAKER_04]: We just really enjoyed the book.

[SPEAKER_04]: We'll Josh did.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I enjoyed hearing about it.

[SPEAKER_04]: You can find it on thrift books right now for just twenty three bucks.

[SPEAKER_04]: and read all about.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's where I bought it.

[SPEAKER_04]: The horrible things.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's just a fascinating history of the area too.

[SPEAKER_05]: You get to read a lot about what this place has always been like.

[SPEAKER_04]: In a way, it seems like it, and you tell me since you read it, like maybe there's a sense of comfort to that, like it does kind of explain.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's almost like superhero serum.

[SPEAKER_04]: I obviously know superheroes, but you know where it explains.

[SPEAKER_04]: I do.

[SPEAKER_04]: It gives that answer where it's not just, oh my God, what's in the water?

[SPEAKER_04]: Literally, what's in the water?

[SPEAKER_05]: like seventy four was when they really kicked off nineteen seventy four and then as those regulations came in lower and lower and lower and lower and people just have lower and lower levels of lead in general in their body.

[SPEAKER_04]: Almost like the EPA is a good thing and we need to do round.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, I didn't know I you know what politically I disagree with you and I think you should dismantle it.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think that's better.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, the earth should be politicized, you're right.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_05]: So in that cool, the beautiful waterfront in Tacoma is.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, just over a plastic bag containing a rotten.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's chunk of a city.

[SPEAKER_04]: I would like to hear a study about the animals and stuff because things burrow, creatures burrow, insects burrow.

[SPEAKER_05]: You're telling me they're not having that happen in some sort of mutation or carrying it back up to the topsoil or the shoreline and waters around rusted in the Tacoma Smelter are still, I saw this thing called a dirt meter map or something like that to see the amount of pollution.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it was all so much of it was peaked to the red end of that spectrum.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm sure you shouldn't eat anything out of wherever that is.

[SPEAKER_05]: And to come, I don't touch the water.

[SPEAKER_05]: You might try to step into it and just take a stroll at the top of it.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I can't fall in.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's full of metal for God's sake.

[SPEAKER_05]: What a horrible word.

[SPEAKER_05]: Smelt.

[SPEAKER_05]: All right, murder land.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for sharing.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's great.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm glad to talk about it.

[SPEAKER_05]: I love books and I love to show off that I read paper, but this is on paper.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_04]: In my episode, Father Frank, I told the story of missing two-year-old, now twenty-nine-year-old, Tika Lewis.

[SPEAKER_04]: First, a very brief recap, and then an update to her case.

[SPEAKER_04]: On January, twenty-third, nineteen ninety-nine, Theresa English, a mother in Tacoma with Chippewa Heritage, was with her five children and ten other family members who were all enjoying the evening of bowling at the new frontier lanes on center street in Tacoma, Washington.

[SPEAKER_04]: Along for the festivities was two and a half year old Tika Lewis.

[SPEAKER_04]: The shy, dimpled, curly-haired toddler was wearing pig tails, a green, Tweety bird shirt, white sweatpants, and some air Jordans.

[SPEAKER_04]: And she was happily showing off her favorite Christmas present, which she had received just a month prior, a clear purse adorned with fish.

[SPEAKER_04]: Inside were some coins her uncle had given her, and starburst candies her favorite.

[SPEAKER_04]: The evening began around eight-thirty with the alley packed as other groups and families bold away.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was so busy there wasn't an open space in the parking lot.

[SPEAKER_04]: As the night went on, the family played their games at Lane's seven and eight.

[SPEAKER_04]: Around ten pm, Tika lost interest in bowling and wound up in the arcade area.

[SPEAKER_04]: First, she tried using those coins from her purse to win a teddy bear in the claw machine, without any luck, her uncle stepped in and won it for her.

[SPEAKER_04]: Given the bear, Tika turned around and gifted it to her ten-month-old baby sister, then she found me cruising world car racing game and like so many kids entertained herself by playing with the steering wheel driving along with the demo race on the screen.

[SPEAKER_04]: The arcade area was located to the left of the lanes that the family was occupying, closer to lanes one and two.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was also only six feet from the front entrance.

[SPEAKER_04]: Anyone who has gone bowling with a large group, especially with children, [SPEAKER_04]: knows that you tend to kind of spread out and take up more space than just your lanes.

[SPEAKER_04]: Juggling games and kids, the family created a sort of shuffle.

[SPEAKER_04]: Theresa stood in the upper area near Tika, but it was soon her turn to bowl, so her boyfriend Fred took her spot with the kids.

[SPEAKER_04]: He was not Tika's father, but he was the father to another of Theresa's children.

[SPEAKER_04]: Tika's father, Robert Lewis, was incarcerated at McNeil Island Cretinal Center at the time for undisclosed reasons.

[SPEAKER_04]: When it was Fred's turn to roll, Timmy stepped up as a chaperone.

[SPEAKER_04]: As Tika continued racing, Uncle Timmy turned away to watch Fred throw the ball down the lane.

[SPEAKER_04]: Turning back to the racing game, Timmy discovered Tika wasn't there.

[SPEAKER_04]: Two year olds are known to wander, especially in a building full of so many light, sounds and distractions.

[SPEAKER_04]: After the family was alerted, they stopped playing and began looking for her.

[SPEAKER_04]: Together, the family went through the building searching everywhere for the little girl.

[SPEAKER_04]: Behind the ball racks, behind video games, in the bathrooms, under tables, realizing fairly quickly that Tika was not in the arcade area or responding to their calls, they approached an off-duty police officer who happened to be working there that night and informed him of Tika's disappearance.

[SPEAKER_04]: Hoping she was just mixed up in a crowd, an announcement was made over the speaker system, asking the patrons to look for the little girl.

[SPEAKER_04]: Within fifteen minutes, the police were there.

[SPEAKER_04]: The parking lot was blocked off, so every remaining car could be searched.

[SPEAKER_04]: The search soon spread out from inside the alley, and for fifteen hours, the one-point-five mile radius surrounding the alley was searched extensively by a group of thirty-three searchers, eight dog handlers, and a helicopter.

[SPEAKER_04]: All in hopes, Tika had simply wandered away, but there were no traces of her.

[SPEAKER_04]: Interviewing the family, there were initial concerns that a woman who had requested to hold one of the infants in the group could have taken Tika, but she was quickly cleared.

[SPEAKER_04]: Everyone at the alley was questioned, and with further investigation, they were also cleared.

[SPEAKER_04]: Due to Roberts' incarceration, there were not concerns regarding custody issues that could have led to her being kidnapped by him or on his behalf.

[SPEAKER_04]: Hours quickly became days, investigators checked in with registered sex offenders who lived around the bowling alley, all of it led nowhere.

[SPEAKER_04]: This wasn't the first time New Frontier lanes had an issue with children and kidnappers.

[SPEAKER_04]: In the November before Tika's abduction, a four-year-old boy was sexually molested in the bathroom, reporting the incident the perpetrator was described as having brown, curly hair and a beard.

[SPEAKER_04]: Even the security guards recognized the description as someone who had been to the alley before.

[SPEAKER_04]: That December, a white man with brown hair was reported for attempting to take a six-year-old boy out of the alley, claiming to be the boy's father while doing so.

[SPEAKER_04]: Three days after Tika was kidnapped, a father saw her story on the news and had a tip for the police.

[SPEAKER_04]: Thinking the incident was nothing of note, he hadn't reported it at the time, but after seeing her story, he knew the information he had could be helpful.

[SPEAKER_04]: Earlier, the same day, Tika was taken, a man with brown, curly hair was at a park located less than a mile from the bowling alley.

[SPEAKER_04]: That father saw a curly-haired man attempt to take his two children.

[SPEAKER_04]: Chasing him away, he watched the man flee in a blue, nineteen ninety-five, Pontiac Grand Am.

[SPEAKER_04]: This information was helpful and informative, but not much more.

[SPEAKER_04]: No one has been found or arrested in regard to those incidents, but it is thought they might be connected to Tika's case.

[SPEAKER_04]: At thirteen years gone, Tika's story was featured on the show, find our missing.

[SPEAKER_04]: That bump in publicity was appreciated, but things quickly returned to being quiet.

[SPEAKER_04]: The bowling alley, once the neighborhood hub for weekend family gatherings, was torn down and turned into a home depot.

[SPEAKER_04]: The visuals continued.

[SPEAKER_04]: In twenty twenty a cold case detective was revisiting the case and found new information.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it wasn't technically new, but it had been lost to time and aneptitude.

[SPEAKER_04]: On that fateful Saturday night at the alley, seventeen-year-old John was also there with his family.

[SPEAKER_04]: The bowling alley was a sea of joy with a splash of chaos that those settings bring.

[SPEAKER_04]: Probably too busy playing to hear the inner calm, John and his family had no idea anything was going on until they went to leave for the night and found the parking lot swarming with cops.

[SPEAKER_04]: Police may have been checking in with everyone leaving, but they weren't asking specific questions, so John didn't share about the encounter he had experienced earlier that night.

[SPEAKER_04]: A few days later, he spotted a poster featuring Tika's precious smile, and he started to piece everything together.

[SPEAKER_04]: He wasn't sure what he knew, but he felt the cops needed to know it, too.

[SPEAKER_04]: Going into the station for an interview, he talked about that night, and how, as he was headed to the bathroom, a man wearing a blue-plad shirt and faded jeans holding a little girl's hand rushed past him.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was a memorable moment because the man passed too closely and quickly bumping into John, surprised by the shoulder check John looked to the man expecting, oh, sorry, instead the man continued rushing away.

[SPEAKER_04]: At first, John thought the guy had a little girl who urgently needed to use the restroom.

[SPEAKER_04]: Looking closer, John noticed that the little girl was dark-skinned and the man was white, not that that meant he couldn't have been the father, but it was just something John recalled.

[SPEAKER_04]: The way the man rushed and didn't acknowledge what happened, stayed with him as being odd.

[SPEAKER_04]: Seeing a report regarding Tika's family, he felt that the man had not been the father.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like the previous incidents, the man was described as white with shoulder-length brown curly hair and a mustache.

[SPEAKER_04]: Adding to it, John said that he was around five-eleven with a husky build.

[SPEAKER_04]: The most notable piece of information was that the man had a heavily pockmarked face.

[SPEAKER_04]: John thought he had given some extremely important information, and he was surprised he didn't get more calls from the police to go through everything again.

[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe he had been wrong in what he shared had been irrelevant.

[SPEAKER_04]: It wouldn't be until twenty-twenty that his report would be followed up on.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's because John's report was that piece of evidence rediscovered in twenty-twenty and the cold case detective realized that a detailed description, especially regarding a pockmark man, had never been made public.

[SPEAKER_04]: The reason?

[SPEAKER_04]: Bad police work.

[SPEAKER_04]: Another tip found in the file, a news crew had been filming a reenactment at the bowling alley about a week after the incident.

[SPEAKER_04]: The crew called the tip line because a man was watching the filming and was acting strangely.

[SPEAKER_04]: Description?

[SPEAKER_04]: The same, including the pockmarks.

[SPEAKER_04]: This last July fourth would have been Tika's twenty-ninth birthday.

[SPEAKER_04]: Until Tika returns home, her mother holds closely the memories of their two years together, and cherishes the jacket Tika wore to the alley that night, and her puber stuffy that rarely left her side.

[SPEAKER_04]: Someone somewhere knows something.

[SPEAKER_04]: Someone in the Tacoma area was around in ninety-nine and knew the man was shoulder-length brown curly hair.

[SPEAKER_04]: They know the man who had pock marks and who wore plaid and jeans and drove a punyac.

[SPEAKER_04]: They know the man who started acting strangely at the end of January that year.

[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe they even moved away or got quiet.

[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe they went to the bowling alley all the time or he needed to read every article and watch all the coverage of Tika's story.

[SPEAKER_04]: Between the attempted abduction at the park and the multiple attempts at the alley, it makes me think the perpetrator knew the area and how to get away from it quickly.

[SPEAKER_04]: Tika Lewis was just about two and a half years old at the time of her abduction.

[SPEAKER_04]: She is black, native American, and white.

[SPEAKER_04]: She was three feet tall and thirty-five pounds at that time.

[SPEAKER_04]: She has asthma, which requires an inhaler.

[SPEAKER_04]: At the time, she had black hair and natural red highlights, brown eyes, dimples, pierced ears, and a large birthmark on her left buttock.

[SPEAKER_04]: She has Exima, which left small patches of discoloration on her face and buttocks.

[SPEAKER_04]: In the last couple of years, a newly updated photo of Tika, age progressed to twenty-six, was released in hopes that it would help lead to tips.

[SPEAKER_04]: There are rewards for information that leads to an arrest.

[SPEAKER_04]: More importantly, you can bring a mother and her family some peace.

[SPEAKER_04]: You can always report a tip anonymously at tpcrimestoppers.com or you can call in any tips to one eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven.

[SPEAKER_04]: It is never too late.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's never been too long.

[SPEAKER_04]: Please, even if what you think you know is meaningless or you're not sure, it could mean more than you think.

[SPEAKER_04]: So the first development in Tika's case is that the Pochmark man was tracked down and detectives interviewed him.

[SPEAKER_04]: The detective told KOM News.

[SPEAKER_04]: During this conversation, he said nothing that would have convinced us that he was a suspect or involved, but he also didn't say anything that ruled him out completely.

[SPEAKER_04]: Two months later, the team decided to do a follow-up interview with the same man.

[SPEAKER_04]: For reasons not shared with the public, or at least that I was unable to find, that man who matched the description given by witnesses was now deceased, leaving investigators with no further information or evidence.

[SPEAKER_04]: On May, nineteen twenty twenty five, a tip set off a three day search in the backyard of a home on the thirty two hundred block of South Gunnison Street into coma as detectives worked away digging up the yard while covered by tents.

[SPEAKER_04]: There were hopes that even if Tika were gone, she would at least be recovered so she could be laid to rest.

[SPEAKER_04]: Those hopes would be left hanging in the air as no new evidence was recovered.

[SPEAKER_04]: In the years since Tika's disappearance, there have been more than seven hundred tips, cadaver dogs have searched homes of sex offenders, an area of point defiance park was dug up to no avail, and still, twenty seven years later, Tika's loved ones worry, wonder, and wish for answers.

[SPEAKER_04]: So if you happen to know anything, even if you think it's minor, call it in because it could be the thing that cracks the case open.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I just hope whatever happens, they get those answers.

[SPEAKER_05]: Point to finance park is in the same little piece of land as the Rustin plants in Tacoma.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, really, because we've covered point defiance part of several times.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_04]: And according to murder land, it's a hub, if you will.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, friggin' Brian Steven Smith from Alaska, we have to keep hearing about this POS.

[SPEAKER_04]: Is he the South African man?

[SPEAKER_04]: He is the South African man.

[SPEAKER_04]: If you have about twenty minutes to spare, please go to YouTube and search Kathleen Joe and Veronica.

[SPEAKER_04]: Colin, who else?

[SPEAKER_04]: Alaska's NBC affiliate created a comprehensive yet very condensed documentary program surrounding the murders of Kathleen Joe Henry and Veronica Apachuk, the indigenous women whose murders were captured on film and eventually found on an SD card, which was turned into police.

[SPEAKER_04]: Here are some of the highlights and details that I took away from the documentary.

[SPEAKER_04]: Though Brian was married, he did have a girlfriend who he made very concerning comments to.

[SPEAKER_04]: When his comments and actions got to be two intense and frankly scary for her, she called the police to report him, and the police basically ignored her and told her that they needed evidence, not here say.

[SPEAKER_04]: She soon felt that his jokes about killing women were actually not a joke.

[SPEAKER_04]: And because she was ignored and felt that he was in fact harming women, her guilt, it seems like what they're saying is her guilt of maybe protecting these women, became unbearable and she actually died by suicide.

[SPEAKER_04]: So speaking of his wife, she still sounds like she does not believe Brian harmed anyone and she is clearly struggling with denial and the weight of everything.

[SPEAKER_05]: Do you know if she's experienced any of that video?

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not sure they didn't go into, they didn't confront her.

[SPEAKER_04]: They just kind of let her speak.

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, they weren't saying, well, there's video.

[SPEAKER_05]: And do you know if he is visible in the video?

[SPEAKER_04]: He's not his hands are in his voices.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, and it's distinct.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's the South African accent.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's obviously him.

[SPEAKER_04]: So the last time I talked about this case in an update, I shared that it was learned that the SD card, which had originally been reported as being found on the side of the street and turned in, it had actually been stolen by a sex worker who was concerned about the contents.

[SPEAKER_04]: Love it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Except that wasn't even the whole story.

[SPEAKER_04]: The sex worker in question, you're still going to love it.

[SPEAKER_04]: She had been on Brian's phone.

[SPEAKER_04]: She was a frequent customer, if you will.

[SPEAKER_04]: And she went on to his phone.

[SPEAKER_04]: And she saw the photos and videos of women.

[SPEAKER_04]: And she knew that she could not go to the police because the images were found while she was working.

[SPEAKER_04]: And she could have also been arrested.

[SPEAKER_04]: So to work around that bullshit, she stole an SD card, put it in Brian's phone.

[SPEAKER_04]: And the next time she saw him, she downloaded the videos and pictures and took the card home.

[SPEAKER_04]: She then titled it, murder in Midtown, Maria, and then she turned it in.

[SPEAKER_05]: That is brilliant.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: So she went, got an SD.

[SPEAKER_04]: She saw the pictures and was like, this is a long, long, long, long, long, long.

[SPEAKER_04]: Love that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Still an SD card, waited till she saw him again.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then she had a moment alone with his phone, popped the card in, downloaded as much as she could, and then took it home.

[SPEAKER_04]: Good for her.

[SPEAKER_04]: When Brian was first question, he was not shocked at the accusation.

[SPEAKER_04]: He was more startled telling the police that he didn't remember hurting anyone.

[SPEAKER_04]: It didn't take long from to give it up and just confessed to not only killing Kathleen Joe, but Veronica as well.

[SPEAKER_04]: For Brian to get with sex workers, he would offer the money, food, and phones in exchange for sex.

[SPEAKER_04]: He told police that Veronica had been inside his marital home while his wife was out of town, and she was sitting on the sofa.

[SPEAKER_04]: He asked her to go take a shower and she refused, so he shot her in the head.

[SPEAKER_04]: And that story is consistent with blood that was found in his home, which I had not heard before, that there was blood in the home.

[SPEAKER_04]: While Stephen's love of cameras and filming were helpful for the case, it was detrimentally traumatizing for the jurors who had to watch what has been described by everyone who has seen the footage as the worst thing imaginable.

[SPEAKER_04]: After Brian was sentenced to two hundred and twenty-six years, which he's still surprised by, K.T.U.U.

[SPEAKER_04]: investigators went to the prison to speak to him, which he was happy to do.

[SPEAKER_04]: He gets a ton of letters, he writes a ton of letters and has a surprising amount of visitors, all of which help to appease has need to speak a lot.

[SPEAKER_04]: Brian tries to explain a way the photos of women from South Africa because there were stories that he had done this in South Africa before coming to Alaska.

[SPEAKER_04]: And he also claimed to his girlfriend and sex workers that he had killed other women, that he had child-sex abuse materials.

[SPEAKER_04]: But again, they couldn't prove if there were victims in South Africa, even though it looks like there probably are.

[SPEAKER_04]: You may also recall that other photos had been found, and it is believed by those who knew her that those photos were of Cassandra profoski.

[SPEAKER_04]: She had been declared legally dead, but the location of her body remains unknown.

[SPEAKER_04]: Brian claimed to have had sexual relations with her, but he left her alive on the ground intoxicated, which I find very hard to believe when you have photos of that person appearing to be kind of in the similar state as the other photos.

[SPEAKER_04]: Another shocking moment was that Brian had a drinking buddy that he would text regarding the, quote, fun he was having with women.

[SPEAKER_04]: The night of Kathleen Joe's murder, Brian texted, hey, you up.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm having fun.

[SPEAKER_04]: I did have fun and wanted to share that friend Ian Calhoun.

[SPEAKER_04]: Ian Calhoun in Alaska has not yet been charged with any crime related to Brian Smith.

[SPEAKER_04]: Besides having some of his body, voice, and his phone information connected to the videos of the murders, he still claims his innocence and his reasoning is that he is just a victim of the special effects department at the FBI because that's what they spend their time on.

[SPEAKER_04]: There aren't enough murders actually being committed to go get those people.

[SPEAKER_05]: Presently, they're having to go through a bunch of files.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: For someone in charge.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: That seems like a waste of resource.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, they can't be bothered with files about sexual predators.

[SPEAKER_04]: They have to find a random immigrant.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_04]: Who lives in Alaska?

[SPEAKER_05]: We need Rick Baker in here immediately to do these effects.

[SPEAKER_04]: They have to find his voice pre accessible AI get his voice to say certain things like everyone dies in my videos.

[SPEAKER_04]: Put that over a video that they happen to have of someone being murdered.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, they'll be FBI and also.

[SPEAKER_04]: sneakily tell him the location of the bodies because he told them the locations of the bodies.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they slipped him a little.

[SPEAKER_04]: He's well, I feel like the person you were referencing about those other files.

[SPEAKER_04]: He has the same level of narcissism, I believe, in my very layman's opinion.

[SPEAKER_05]: Prison in Alaska sucks, huh?

[SPEAKER_05]: It's got to be wrong.

[SPEAKER_05]: No offense to the DOC there, but that's got to be a harsh.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: When asked about the murders that he had told his girlfriend about, Brian said that those had all been ingest.

[SPEAKER_04]: Alicia, his girlfriend, would, according to his lying face while speaking to media and prison, would give him wild sex when he told horrible stories.

[SPEAKER_04]: So he would just make up victims, show videos that he claimed were just from the internet, not from his personal collection.

[SPEAKER_04]: And he was just a man.

[SPEAKER_04]: So if he was going to get crazy sex, of course, he was going to lie.

[SPEAKER_04]: Sure, he may be had six or twelve victims in South Africa or four or five in the States, but not really.

[SPEAKER_04]: He was just saying that to get sex, which totally makes sense.

[SPEAKER_04]: A woman so distraught and scared that she took her own life was also super into the stories and got hot over it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, Brian.

[SPEAKER_04]: I hate Brian.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's really hard to choose the most punchable moment of this interview, but for me, it would be when he got nitpicky about the semantics of the term serial killer.

[SPEAKER_04]: As if he was one, he was like, well, a serial killer kills a few people in a short amount of time in the same way.

[SPEAKER_04]: And he had a victim that was shot and one that was strangled.

[SPEAKER_04]: So he can't be a serial killer.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, and he also didn't kill anyone, and it was all just a conspiracy against him.

[SPEAKER_04]: And a runner-up, or maybe a tie for that punch him in the face moment, would be when it was pointed out that he would only say someone when referencing the victims that he is serving several life terms for.

[SPEAKER_04]: So he would not say Kathleen Joe, Veronica, anything like that you would say someone.

[SPEAKER_04]: If we have to hear about this come back again, I hope it's because other victims have been located and brought home to their families, or he's been given more time to rot in a cell, or he has been taken out by his fellow inmates or something.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's the update.

[SPEAKER_04]: Go watch that documentary.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's really well done.

[SPEAKER_04]: Put, you know, a lot more footage and photos and videos than what I've seen before covering the women and really going into the concern that more likely than not there are more victims.

[SPEAKER_04]: It would be really hard to believe that there weren't.

[SPEAKER_05]: Can you give someone a leprosy?

[SPEAKER_05]: Because we should.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you brought in.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's a good question.

[SPEAKER_04]: I do not know.

[SPEAKER_04]: So that's pretty much everything for our update.

[SPEAKER_04]: I do want to tease our next episode, which is going to be about the disappearance of Alana Carroll.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I had the privilege of interviewing a couple of her family members and they shared hilarious stories of her growing up.

[SPEAKER_04]: And a lot of her background because she was someone that struggled with addiction and disappeared under various suspicious circumstances.

[SPEAKER_04]: And they do feel like most of these cases that we often hear about, she's been dismissed and pushed to the back burner.

[SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to get her story out and hopefully bring some tips in for that family.

[SPEAKER_04]: And that'll be our next episode.

[SPEAKER_04]: So before we go, Josh, we don't pay attention to reviews much anymore, especially since what was our website we always went to?

[SPEAKER_04]: Charitable.

[SPEAKER_04]: Charitable win away, which was very sad, luckily Spotify notifies us, because a lot of times we don't get notified of comments, like someone brought up today, hey, could you check these comments on YouTube?

[SPEAKER_04]: I had no idea there were these comments on YouTube.

[SPEAKER_04]: We don't get notified that way.

[SPEAKER_04]: So Spotify puts comments, but I think they have, I would guess they have some sort of AI highlighting things.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it said, do you want this comment to post?

[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, well, my goodness, let me read it before we decide that.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's really for you, Josh.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I just wanted you to hear it and get your input.

[SPEAKER_05]: This isn't, this isn't used to me.

[SPEAKER_05]: I am very nervous about what this is going to be.

[SPEAKER_04]: So this is fan of the show, out in Grument.

[SPEAKER_04]: I believe is how to say that.

[SPEAKER_04]: He claims in another comment to be a lawyer, so I can only assume with such a unique name that he's the same lawyer as the one you can find at land to lawyer.org.

[SPEAKER_04]: In response to our update announcing the show format changes, he felt it was necessary to share his opinion.

[SPEAKER_04]: Quote.

[SPEAKER_04]: So one of the annoying fat cows is gone.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yay.

[SPEAKER_04]: But that still leaves one.

[SPEAKER_04]: See you next Tuesday.

[SPEAKER_04]: Sad.

[SPEAKER_04]: Josh is the only reason I listen to this show without him.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm gone.

[SPEAKER_04]: And the virtue signaling wokeness is beyond ridiculous and infuriating.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you, my man.

[SPEAKER_05]: My dude.

[SPEAKER_05]: Appreciate it.

[SPEAKER_05]: I've been trying to get this broad.

[SPEAKER_05]: I got rid of the first one.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm trying to get rid of the second one.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then you and I could just talk all the time.

[SPEAKER_05]: How, what is he not hearing from me?

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't have the same passion in my voice.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think he's doing a lot, but I feel the same.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I feel like I say the same things.

[SPEAKER_05]: I have a huge problem with just about everything.

[SPEAKER_05]: I just want to go eat some dirt into coma, bitch.

[SPEAKER_04]: I just love that he claims to be a fan of the show.

[SPEAKER_04]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_04]: But calls Emily an annoying fat cat.

[SPEAKER_04]: No.

[SPEAKER_04]: And calls myself one as well.

[SPEAKER_04]: Calls me a CU next Tuesday, but writes it out, wrote CU next Tuesday.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then Josh is the only reason you know I'm his wife, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: Like do you think he's going to take that as a compliment of like, hey, man, thanks for calm the wife that I love that about you.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you know, it's just you and me, I'm in the manifest sphere, just blowing out about the shit we hate.

[SPEAKER_05]: I am a beta cook.

[SPEAKER_05]: Soy boy, whatever dude.

[SPEAKER_04]: As someone said the other day, you Josh are surrounded by women, which to her and to me as well, is the peak of masculinity.

[SPEAKER_05]: That was one of the best compliments I've maybe ever received.

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe the best compliment I've ever received.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's a good one.

[SPEAKER_05]: I never expected to be called peak masculine.

[SPEAKER_04]: because women feel safer around you and you are kind and you listen in your patient and you are understanding of where things come from.

[SPEAKER_04]: You don't just decide.

[SPEAKER_04]: You take the info.

[SPEAKER_04]: So anyway, I'm sorry you're not on the show as might.

[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe you'll like this when you talked about a book for a while.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think he likes books.

[SPEAKER_04]: I just love that he used his actual name, left it on there, and he has a website.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, there is something to be said for someone that stands by their word.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I do appreciate that.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's not like hiding and sniping at us on the shadows.

[SPEAKER_05]: My name is Audin.

[SPEAKER_05]: I have horrible opinions.

[SPEAKER_04]: This is not to call out and go out to my feelings.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was just so damn funny.

[SPEAKER_05]: That is so shocking and hilarious.

[SPEAKER_04]: and to be so clueless to feel like they are complimenting you while saying that about your wife and friend.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're we we wed on the top of a mountain.

[SPEAKER_04]: So as usual, we appreciate all of our listeners.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I don't really, I don't really do much interacting with people or responding even to I don't, that's maybe the first comment ever aimed at me.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I do say aim and act.

[SPEAKER_04]: You, you do get compliments.

[SPEAKER_04]: I've told you before people liking your episodes or when you get tickled about something or and I just had to share this because it's kind of incomprehensible.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I love that about that.

[SPEAKER_04]: I feel crazy.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but it does feel that feels closer to me to what it feels like to have a friend.

[SPEAKER_05]: From what I recall of having them at some point in my life that it was sometimes you're just like, [SPEAKER_04]: You think that?

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, we're friends too bad.

[SPEAKER_04]: The good thing is you're still on the show because without him, he'd, without you, he'd be gone.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he's still on the show.

[SPEAKER_04]: He's still on the show.

[SPEAKER_04]: So he's still the same.

[SPEAKER_04]: Do you need me to spell out this name?

[SPEAKER_04]: No, I found him.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_05]: He looks, uh, now what I expected.

[SPEAKER_05]: I expected a fat cow.

[SPEAKER_05]: But thank you for listening.

[SPEAKER_05]: Every, every doubtful counts.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you very much.

[SPEAKER_04]: You can share this with your friends of how popular you are.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I bet ladies will love to hear you hear that this is how you do.

[SPEAKER_05]: No one's ever said your name this much or with this much enthusiasm.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, to so many so many people are hearing your name right now.

[SPEAKER_04]: And how great you are.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: You can, if you want an MP three of this portion of the episode for you to share with people, we can get that to you.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I'll make a clip for you.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I'll send it directly to probably on an Atlanta lawyer.org.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if that's true.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's got to be.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it was interesting because his first comment I wanted to engage with because he was talking about DNA.

[SPEAKER_04]: I believe it was after one of our recent forensic genetic genealogy ones.

[SPEAKER_04]: And he was saying as a lawyer that he does not support the idea of DNA being collected like that, which we've heard from other lawyers before saying the same thing.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I think there are conversations to be had about the ethics surrounding that and accuracy because yeah, you are working with cops.

[SPEAKER_04]: So who knows?

[SPEAKER_04]: And before I could engage in this meaningful conversation, he had to call me a fat cow.

[SPEAKER_05]: Don't eat anything out of the ground in Rustin or point defiance part, or maybe even lay on the ground.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_05]: They say it's safe, but they always say it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they love saying it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Every day always says it is fine.

[SPEAKER_04]: Today is a buffet, Ronald.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's a bottle of beef.

[SPEAKER_05]: Sorry for pardon our beef.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm always saying pardon my beef.

[SPEAKER_05]: Pardon my beef.

[SPEAKER_05]: Pardon my beef.

[SPEAKER_05]: You're parting my beef.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god.

[SPEAKER_05]: Can you start with, yeah?

[SPEAKER_05]: He said, book a long, I think, at-scourches and blinds.

[SPEAKER_05]: Scourches and blinds.

[SPEAKER_05]: I do.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's from a book.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, it is a book.

[SPEAKER_05]: You take that half.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'll take this half.

[SPEAKER_05]: Don't come over here for any of your stuff.

[SPEAKER_05]: I give myself an A plus for my book report.

[SPEAKER_05]: Please, Caroline.

[SPEAKER_05]: Sweet.

[SPEAKER_05]: I won't do that if we talk to you.

[SPEAKER_05]: Pop, pop, pop.

[SPEAKER_05]: Love it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it wasn't technically new, but had had had had, had had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, had, [SPEAKER_05]: Abra cadaver dogs.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's a fun combo.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_04]: Magic show dogs that also look for bodies.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know what they used to do in Tacoma to try to combat the pollution?

[SPEAKER_05]: They were like the smoke stack is just covering.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's covering the city in this horrible horrible garbage.

[SPEAKER_05]: What we need to do to eliminate the problem is build it higher, baby.

[SPEAKER_05]: So they just kept, they just kept making it taller as though that wouldn't, that that would, you know.

[SPEAKER_04]: Wouldn't that then just cover a wider area with the pollution?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: A succulent Chinese meal?

[SPEAKER_05]: How many people do you think there are whose legal name is King James Bible?

[SPEAKER_05]: Siri, why do people have the last name Bible?

[SPEAKER_05]: Michael Boobley is Michael Bibley.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god.

[SPEAKER_05]: Michael King James Bibley.

[SPEAKER_04]: And definitely better with the facial hair rodden.

[SPEAKER_04]: Gotta keep the beard man.