Welcome to Let's Talk Love, a space for real conversations, fresh perspectives and expert wisdom.

We dive into the joys, the challenges and the beauty of relationships, learning, and growing in community.

Join us as we expand our relational literacy, becoming better at love together.

This week, Robin sits down with Riaz Mengji, human connection expert, long time broadcaster, and author of Every Conversation Counts.

This episode is all about.

Creating deeper, more meaningful connections, Riaz and Robin explore how to move beyond small talk, how to ask better questions, and how to show up with what he calls assertive empathy.

You'll discover simple practices that support deeper, more connected conversations.

Riaz, thank you for being here.

What's up?

I'm pumped next to the invite and Congrats on what you've built.

I think this is so awesome to have the podcast and the events you do, and I'm excited to have this conversation today.

Me too, thank you so much, your book is awesome.

Yes, I really, I loved it.

Well, if you don't mind, where did your mind go?

Where did your heart go when you put the book down?

Because anytime you read a book, there's so many ideas anyone can absorb.

And I always think I'm like, OK, what's one thing that I'm going to carry with me?

What?

What was something that stuck with you when when you went through the book?

And thanks for going through the book.

So your book is called Every Conversation Counts, and your book just brought to light how important it is for human connection.

Then what is more important than our relationships in life?

And you say that, and I believe that I live by that.

And I took a lot from your book, so thank you.

Awesome and thank you for thank you for reading it prior to this that that means a lot and allows us to go deeper with any area you want to explore.

I read every book.

Yes, every book.

I think what your book really brought to light is how important it is for us to be intentional with our relationships and our connections with each other, right?

I think that speaks to, I was talking to a friend of mine this week.

Her name's Alicia.

She's a speaker and a therapist as well about, you know, when we when we look at when relationships don't go the way we may have wanted personally and professionally, it's easy to get into a culture of complaint and I think complaining as a way of finding common ground, but it's almost the laziest form of connection.

And Alicia, in our conversation, we were kind of talking about life and evolution and reinventing relationships.

We talked about the importance and she introduced this question that I think is so good of, well, what do you want it to look like?

And you've mentioned the word of being intentional.

What do you want it to look like for yourself?

What do you want it to look like for, you know, a business partner, a personal partner with your child and focus on that instead of here's what I don't want it to look like.

And sometimes people, they don't know what they want.

So then we're in a reactive mode as opposed to an intentional creative mode with our conversations and where the relationships could go.

Yes, that's one of the things you talk about in your book.

Riaz is having those hard conversations and how important it is in our relationships, right?

Because if you're avoiding, it's still in you.

Avoiding our conversations is not going to make it go away.

It's actually just creating like a disconnect, right?

I really I love how you brought that up and how important it is to have your hard to have hard conversations.

Yeah, there's a there's a lot going on there because you.

One of the habits that a champion in this book is how we can be assertively empathetic, especially when there are.

Yeah, like especially when there are sensitive, hard, uncertain conversations.

And when we enter those, if we're taking accountability of our energy, our space, our potential anxiety, neurodivergence is a big part of this too.

And understanding well what what's coming up for me.

And sometimes we could be fearful.

I've been in this situation where I'm thinking, I don't know how this person is going to respond.

And I get in my own head with a fearful mentality or a an assumption of what somebody might react with.

And then I forget, how is this going to land on the other side?

I forget about the entire experience.

So I think with assertive empathy, how can we care for how somebody else might feel, but also communicate how we feel in the moment.

And I think leading with empathetic curiosity, that's the starting point for these difficult conversations.

How do we put the relationship 1st and logic 2nd and ask the questions.

And you know what?

When when you talk about sensitive conversations, I think the starting point is acknowledgement before rebuttal.

Even if I you don't agree with me, if you're acknowledging every as that makes sense that you would feel that way.

At least I know you care about my perspective in this.

You heard what I'm trying to say and express.

You understand where I might be coming from, and as soon as you acknowledge it, it's almost like you drain that initial tension, anxiety, or perceived confrontation that might exist.

And that acknowledgement, by prioritizing the relationship allows us to get to a collaborative state where then logic can come in and a collaborative discussion on a difference of perspectives, which also would be inevitable.

I like to see us taking the High Road and having empathy for those around us.

Not always easy to do, but this is where we, I, I really need I, I want us to step it up.

Yeah.

And I mean that, that, that that takes attention.

Exactly.

OK, so you've got a question, your favorite question that you ask people, right?

And it is what is the most important conversation that you've ever had?

Oh my gosh, what I would ask you that question.

What is the most important conversation that you've ever had or one of?

Do you know one?

There's so many because doing the work that I do now.

So I used to work in television interviewing people for a living.

So I would be extracting all these stories from people.

And then when I got to the point of writing this book on human connection, I started reflecting on the questions and conversations that I had.

That really shifted things for me.

I think one of the initial ones that really stands out for me is a conversation I had when I I got my finance degree from Simon Fraser University.

I live in Vancouver and in my final semester I was facilitating some sessions for an HR track for an international student conference and the Co chair of that conference.

His name is Lafi.

He's a phenomenal human being, magnetic personality from the stage as he was Co chair and Co MC, he could connect with anyone.

And he was also such a caring person that when he wasn't on the stage, he would try to be in the back of the room for other leaders that would take the stage and facilitate sessions or present to cheer them on on as much as possible.

And when I was finished the at that conference, he pulled me aside and it was a conversation where it really what what matters most to me in the question that comes away from that conversation was who believed in you before you believed in yourself?

And he saw something in me before I saw it in myself, because when he heard I was going to finance and he was like, dude, do not do this.

He's like, I witnessed something I believe you have to offer in the connection space.

He's like, you're 22.

And he challenged me in the moment when he said, when are you going to stop playing safe and start living your life?

Because culturally he knew.

He's like, are you living your life vision?

Are you trying to fulfill somebody else's?

Which my loving parents wanted me to go the finance route and have a secure career path.

So I, I appreciate in that conversation, I had somebody see my potential before I saw it in myself.

And there were such deep trust, care and connection.

He called me up.

He didn't call me out in that moment.

And it allowed me to see things in a different way.

And then I just, I just made a, a huge shift in my career path and I finished my degree.

But then I started interning for all these broadcast mediums and MTV Canada.

It was where I interned back in 2002 here in Vancouver to start a a career in in broadcast and interviewing people for a living.

That is so awesome.

I love what you said of what he called you up.

I've never heard that before.

He didn't call you out, he called you up.

Yeah.

Wow, you went down a different path because of that man and that conversation.

And I think we could all think about people in our lives that have been those catalysts.

I think of my my grandma, for instance, like she was the woman who ever since I was born really, that just saw me, knew me, knew my heart from the beginning.

She's that person that just saw me and was just like, shine your light, girl.

My grandma didn't talk like that, but then she held that space for me.

You know what I mean?

That's an awesome story, Riaz.

I love that.

Yeah, thank you.

And thanks for sharing about your grandma too, because I think when these conversations take place, the other question is once you have a moment to reflect upon.

Oh yeah, that one did create a profound shift in my life.

The question I'd like to ask people is, well, does the person know?

Does he?

No.

And if you're lucky enough to still have them around, I always invite people to think, well, who needs to hear from you today?

How could you surprise them?

Because sometimes it's not like a milestone conversation.

It was a micro moment in time that could have been profound for you.

And that person on the other side didn't even realize the gift they gave you in that moment.

And how can we be intentional with the outreach and appreciation we have of, you know what?

There was a time where I was uncertain.

I was feeling imposter syndrome.

I was feeling vulnerable.

And you illuminated something within me that I didn't even know I had.

And I just needed you to know.

And I think even the power of appreciation in this book, I talk about a habit of how do you make people feel famous?

That is, is empathy on the decline?

Research shows, you know, it is.

But even the power of appreciation, there is a difference between giving someone a compliment and demonstrating the depth of meaningful appreciation.

Because a compliment could be a surface level observation of hey Robin, I appreciate the beautiful studio you've got here and the attention of what you create with your community.

And then the depth of appreciation of look at the profound impact you have when people come together in bloom, strangers that have never met, friendships that are born.

You are a curator of community and going into the depths where you can connect.

You can one be a great witness to what someone's creating, but connect not just an outcome, but a transformation to that person's values.

I think it's so important there's a, you know, when you talk about your grandma allowing you to feel seen, I think about what's happening online.

And maybe one of the reasons why empathy declines is that we mistake connectivity for connection, where we'll see somebody's life online and we'll think, oh, you know what?

OK, they went on this great trip.

I think I know what's going on with them.

And we've come up with our own narrative of how enjoyable their trip was.

So we've caught up with them in our own mind and we are not had the conversation.

Ask the questions, we'll get a text, we'll get an e-mail, we'll get a notification.

We think, you know what, we're connected.

But I think real connection is not just an exchange of information, it's a meaningful exchange of our humanity.

So while we're seeing people online, are people feeling seen by each other online?

Those are two completely different things and how we show up for each other and surprise each other.

And I think there could be subtle shifts of instead of sending a text, send a voice note.

Instead of going into Adm, send somebody a video instead of a group chat, making time for this one-on-one to connect on a human level, to understand where you are, what you need, and you know what's what's making you smile today.

Love all of that.

I really do.

And you you see that like that's a simple thing that we can do, right, Rather than liking somebody's posts, comment on it.

Like it you you got you give some really great ways to build connection with people in your book around like that's a simple thing, right, You think, but it's going the extra step like liking somebody, liking somebody's post rather than saying like or commenting and being like, Oh my gosh, like it looks like you had an amazing time.

What was your favorite part?

Yeah, you're engaging conversation, right?

You're making that connection.

That that right there is a call to connection where a thoughtful comments valuable, but even the invitation for reciprocity of asking the question in the thread or even taking it offline.

Because, you know, what I find is powerful is when something may be written that was on my mind or on my heart that I'll post on, you know, online or through a blog or a newsletter and somebody calls me or they text me about it just saying, hey, I saw it.

You know what I dropped a comment online, but I wanted to reach out to you directly because this is where my mind went.

This is how it touched me.

This is what I'm thinking.

And it takes the connection deeper.

So it's the next time if somebody listens this the next time you see something and you're just doom scrolling or just constantly in an in the dopamine trap or the hit.

And I get it.

Sometimes you just want to decompress.

I do it at the end of the day, you just going through, you want a bit of entertainment.

But if you see someone that means something to you in your life, how do you engage them in a more meaningful way where they would really appreciate what you shared, what you asked, how you called them up to connect in that moment, whether it's online or offline with however you choose to engage?

Yeah, I love that you you, you know, you tell the story in your book.

You tell the story of the illusionist.

You said he was.

He was so, you know, graceful in like giving people time and signing autographs and everything else.

And then at the end of the day in the green room, I think you invited him for for drinks or dinner.

And you guys went out for dinner and drinks.

And you think, oh, my God, this guy's famous.

But turns out he probably was a little bit lonely.

You think We think we know somebody from watching them their social feeds or watching their career.

Actually, at the end of the day, this guy just wanted to have some deeper connection in a in a city that he wasn't from.

I just, that's a great story.

We can't make assumptions about people, and we do.

I mean, you have big names that come to you in bloom.

How do you facilitate connection?

Because I have some thoughts on the story, but I'd love to even get in your world of you're putting out invites for people to come to Vancouver, to communities.

What works for you when you're engaging, no matter what, how high their profile is, to get that something meaningful to break them out of autopilot mode and treat them as an equal.

What works for you?

Like when it comes to fame, fortune, wealth, whatever, it's like people are people and it doesn't matter who you are, you're my guest.

It's like if you're walking through my door, it's like, how can I take care of you?

That's how we as a team treat our guests and our experts as friends.

So when they arrive at the hotel, I've put, we put together like a beautiful gift bag for them to and flowers and just like, wow, welcome to Vancouver.

Welcome, right?

Because we, we host our event in Vancouver.

I'm from Victoria, but we just jump over the pod for we have dinners and it's just like, I want to get to know this person as a friend.

I want them to feel like welcome to our family.

And when our when our experts leave, they are friends, you know, I want to be able to pick up the phone and call these people and be like, you're my new friend, you know, and I hope you feel that way.

Right.

All right, right now, Riaz, you are you're my new friend.

Can you will you be my friend?

I could ask for consent here.

Yeah, friendship request accepted.

It's accepted.

You know, I like the, I like the idea of, of 1 making them feel welcome.

And two, you know, one of the things that stood out to me is when everybody puts you on a pedestal, chances are you're going to look down on them because they're going to notice.

There's a sense of inequality here.

I think there's a craving to just be treated like a human being.

And the thing I noticed about successful figures, whether they were celebrities, philanthropists, business leaders, you know, therapists and, and, and, and thought leaders that, that, that you bring to your community.

One of the questions I'd love to ask is on the outside looking in, a lot has been accomplished.

But what does it cost to be you and allow someone to articulate the sacrifices they have had to make that they consistently have to make to be able to serve at the level they do?

And I found when that question was asked, there was a powerful pause and reflection of the invitation.

Some people would embrace it.

There would be some that, you know, would give you a, you know, quick answer and move on to the next topic.

But when people opened up about like, I'll give you an example of this.

I remember we were doing a, a satellite interview with Hugh Jackman.

And I think it was one of The Wolverine movies that that came out.

And this is maybe 10 years ago.

And anytime you do a satellite interview, it's like, it's such a, like a, a virtual meeting, right?

And they open the queue where you have a minute before you go live with your interview guest.

So we're in commercial break.

And this was when I was working on a show called Breakfast Television Vancouver.

And when they opened the queue, the first thing Hugh said is, OK, Riaz.

Is that how I was saying your name, Riaz?

And he's like, you're in Vancouver, Breakfast Television, Vancouver.

And he said, aw, man, I love Vancouver.

I'll fill up some movies there.

Kitsilano is my favorite neighbor.

He made it all about us right out of the gate before we even went live.

And then when we started engaging in this interview, he made it look like we were best friends.

And I loved his intention, the energy he put in.

But when we talked about this idea of, hey, you know, when we had a bit of trust, not only what it cost to be you and the sacrifices you make as an actor.

Another question I'd love to ask is, you know, what is your inner critics still love to to say to you?

And how do you silence that?

And he told a story about when his movies would come out, he'd go Incognito and sit in the theaters so he could absorb the audience's experience and understand how does his work land with people because he cared so much.

There was no guarantee.

And I, I think these types of questions, the intentionality of how we connect.

And I've always found the questions that start with how and what as opposed to who, when and where, which can be important.

But I always found that who, when and where has led to more transactional responses.

But the how and what questions really led to more expansive human responses where people began to share more deeply.

And you know, sometimes people would say, well, what's what's the best question you can ask somebody?

I think the best question you can ask is the follow up question.

And you can't plan for that because sometimes someone will give you something in the moment that as an interviewer or as a presenter, you can do all your research to prepare, to give you confidence in the moment that you understand your audience or you understand your subject.

But when they give you something that that you weren't expecting and you follow what they give you, there's a powerful exchange of humanity that happens.

And I think for all of us, how do we get better with our conversations and relationships?

How do we just over prepare to improvise in that moment?

Because preparation gives us confidence, but our ability to improv and lean in, that's that's where deep connection, exploration and discovery happens.

Where beautiful moments of humanity are exchanged.

Is your What is your inner critic say to you?

I think my inner critic gets curious about because now I work as a keynote speaker full time and I think my inner critic was.

Every audience is different.

Every energy is different.

When I first started doing it, if the energy in the audience was lower, I would say to myself, oh man, I missed it.

I blew this one.

And the more I would do it, I would understand because a lot of my work is in the corporate world.

As a keynote speaker, I've understood.

And I was having this discussion with Ken Lawson, who's an awesome improv artist in Vancouver yesterday, that as a keynote speaker, I feel my goal is to create a container for the audience to feel something.

So my critic is, did they feel enough today?

Because sometimes when you go to conferences and there's so much information, you're overloaded.

Did I create a a space of emotional freedom where they felt free to laugh, they felt free to cry, but they felt free to think about things differently than they did before?

And I'm always trying to level up the experience.

And I think to speak to my inner critic, I always ask 2 questions in a feedback form at the end of the keynote because this is how this calms my inner critic of did this land for this audience?

Was this worthwhile of the 60 minutes or however long they gave me of their attention?

And there's two questions.

One, what was most useful for you today?

And two, what would you change about this keynote to understand that the work is never done.

This is a work in progress to serve.

So I asked you the first question when we started the podcast, the fact that you had read the book, where did your mind go?

Where did your heart go to understand how did this book serve you?

And then listening to the responses and you know, you articulated the importance of empathy for you and documenting because every response connection, there's no one-size-fits-all.

Every response is so unique, it's so different.

And even though I research and have studied human behavior for two decades and think, what is the gift I can give this audience a connection, I still, you know, keep this beginner's mindset of what, what can I witness in this audience?

What can I learn from this audience to one, make it more inclusive, and two, to level up the experience the next time somebody invites me to to their stage?

It makes me think of, you know, just that beginner's mind, like you said, having the curiosity, you talk about authentic curiosity in your book and how important that is really what that is for me.

It's like I'm, I'm learning this and I'm integrating so much in the last.

Like I would say in the last almost two years, I've I've changed a lot.

I feel like I've just like finally settled into myself, like in all ways, like I love myself and I, I mean that in a pure way, but I'm and you know, where there comes from is this place of like just being way more present and curious.

Who knows what's going to happen next.

That's the best part.

Like beginner's mind is so important and curiosity is so important, right?

It makes life more fun.

Like I don't know what's going to happen next.

Like you said, when you're getting that feedback from people, it's exciting.

Who knows what they're going to say, but there could be some, some zingers in there.

You just don't know you.

And that's, that's great.

I think that's just so great.

That's what I, that's what I received from our audience and people, our, our community.

I shouldn't say audience because they're, they're our community and I never know what they're going to take away.

I hope it's really positive, but I look forward to the feedback because it just, it helps us grow.

Yeah, it shows there's there's two teachers in the room and every conversation and 1-2 if if you're presenting to a community like what happens within Bloom.

Yeah, you've got a room full of experts at the same time.

And how do you Co create a meaningful experience?

Because I find people will remember perhaps stories you told them, but they'll also remember what they did, what they created in that moment and what they'll remember.

And that could be a relationship that could be a breakthrough.

I mean, you just talked about the shift of coming into your own.

You remember it because you dropped into something.

You felt that.

And I think that's that's the opportunity in every conversation of coming in with that intention of where could we go here?

What could we Co create?

What could we discover?

How could I just be here with you in this moment?

If you if you need space to share, to heal people come in with different intentions and I think just give them space and that point of pause to understand what do we need in the moment?

What do you want it to look like and how?

How can we Co create is is is is vital in in this era?

Yeah, it really is.

What your book reinforces and reminds people of.

What is connecting deeper with people is going beyond small talk.

Talk to us about going beyond small talk.

Yeah.

How do we make our small talk bigger?

And I think that that is the starting point to build trust because when I look at this era right now, you know, when I, when I listen to people that I had the chance to engage in or share ideas with, some people may say, man, I don't like small talk because it's just at the surface.

And I, I think they've come in with an assumption of what small talk is going to be.

And how many of us look at small talk as this defense mechanism that prevents us maybe of the embarrassment of getting emotional in front of someone that we don't know?

Or maybe we're using small talk as a deflection where we know somebody might be struggling and we're afraid that I don't want to activate them.

I don't want to strike that nerve.

So I'm going to shy away from the deeper conversation and keep it at the surface.

And then we end up missing out on the opportunity to lift people up.

So the way I look at small talk is it is the starting point to deepen trust.

And in this era when there's so much change, there's so much efficiency, I think it's the recognition in life, no matter what phase we're in, change is inevitable, but trust isn't.

So how can we lean in with our small talk?

And these could be micro moments to really deepen the bonds we have with people and, and create a meaningful moment, whether we have two minutes, 20 minutes, 2 hours together.

And I think a starting point for small talk is something I credit the late psychiatrist Gordon Livingston for on his articulation on happiness.

And he found the happiest people have three things in common.

They have something to do, they have someone to love, and they have something to look forward to.

And imagine the autopilot mode we're in with small talk of there's something to do.

So hey, what you know, So what do you do for a living?

And if we could flip the question, I'm.

So what are you creating in your life right now that makes you feel alive?

Maybe that is their job, or maybe it's a hobby or a side hustle that they've got going on that they're really passionate to talk about.

Hey, what's a small win, you know, that you had in the past week that not many people know about and allow them to light up?

I think about someone to love.

I mean, you're in this space with your community.

People are quick to talk about the people in their lives.

And then, you know, we kind of move on from there of hey, how are the how are the kids?

How are your partner?

How are your friends?

But when they tell you the players in their life, what if we could go deeper of hey, So what do you love most about them?

And the simple idea of, Hey, what are you looking forward to if people are coming into your space?

Maybe you're hosting them at home, maybe you're hosting them at an event, maybe you're hosting them at your office.

What are you looking forward to when you walk out of this space in 2025 and beyond and allow these questions to ignite a sense of self discovery?

Because maybe they're moving so fast they haven't even realized what's going on in their life and they're.

Like, I don't know.

I don't know what I'm looking forward to, right?

I think if we want to make our small talk bigger, how do we get out of the habit of and sometimes we're nervous and maybe we're in a an important networking setting too.

We want to impress the people in front of us.

What if we could flip the script instead of being impressed or instead of trying to impress, but just being impressed with the people in front of us?

And how do you spotlight their significance?

And I think simple questions like this, I mean, I've even fallen into the trap sometimes where, you know, I'd like to ask a lot of questions.

And then some people would be like, wow, you know what?

I kind of like Rias.

There's something about him.

And people would be like, what is it?

They're like, actually, I don't know.

He didn't tell me anything about himself.

He just was asking questions about me.

So I think it is a dance too, at the same time of if I'm going to ask the questions, also making sure I'm given a piece of myself so they have something to relate to as well.

So it feels like a collaboration, not an interrogation.

So I think it's a balance of curiosity but also having a degree of vulnerability where I'm going to give you a piece of me too in this where it feels real.

And that small talk, even with micro moments of vulnerability, like for example, if we show up, say, if you've got new people coming to in Bloom next year and somebody shows up by themself and, and they go to somebody else, Hey, nice to meet you.

Just so you know, I feel kind of awkward.

I came here by myself.

I don't know anybody.

I feel kind of anxious that other person's like, Oh my God, I don't know anybody either.

I feel the exact same.

Immediately the small talk has gone deeper because you've got a common ground on a, a micro vulnerability that exists because honestly, you put a bunch of people in a social setting.

Everybody's going to have a degree of what's this going to feel like and a sense of I want this to go well, but I don't know if it will.

And that is a beautiful common ground and observation to make, to take your small talk and make your small talk bigger.

I met with a journalist a couple weeks ago about dating in Toronto and he was saying how it, the conversation was really about money and how it's so expensive to live in Toronto, Vancouver, the same, you know, how do we navigate dating if you don't have a lot of money?

How do you talk about that?

Like who's going to pay for the dates, all this stuff, right?

And how do you show up?

And, and well, what I, my invitation on that in that conversation was just really about like having the conversation at the very beginning of the date.

Like how do you feel about splitting the cost of this date of dinner tonight?

Are you good with that?

Like I, does that seem like a good, I mean, starting off with that rather than waiting till the end.

And we like, you know, fake it till you make it like I'm going to pull out my wallet or are you going to pull your wallet or what are we going to do here?

But really what I, what you talk about in your book too, is about showing up.

And it's not so much focusing on, I hope they like me, like I hope I'm doing OK here.

It's like that inner critic is just going on OverDrive.

It's more just like being curious about the person you're with.

The focus is on the other person really, and being in yourself, being yourself, right?

Because who else when you're you talk about the masks that we wear and how we can really get caught up in that, right?

I'm like, I hope I'm being perceived OK here.

It's like you're way too lost inside yourself.

You're not actually being present with the person in front of you.

And it's like we can really get caught up in that.

Yeah, it's, I think that's a relatable theme and it speaks to one of the habits.

How do we put aside our perfect persona?

Our perfect persona.

And, and how do we like, is it even possible to be compassionate if we're so busy judging ourselves of, you know, will, will they like me?

I'll tell you this one.

The biggest mistakes I made when I got into TV and I made this mistake for years when I transitioned and I got into speaking, it was about seeking this validation from the audience and thinking, OK, I got to prove to them how great I am.

And when that shifted to instead of thinking about, and this is what calms my nerves and conversations.

And even if if I'm going to go in front of the camera, go on stage is really anchoring in and shifting from here's what I have to prove to here's what I know I can give in this moment.

And if I've done the work to understand, you know, who the community is, who my audience is, who that person is that's joining me in in the conversation.

One, the gift of curiosity, like intentional curiosity in presence, because I believe people value your presence more than they value your opinions.

Especially right now.

We're in this culture of ultra efficiency overwhelm our ability to just show up.

And I think ego, free agenda, free assumption, free listening, that is a form of discipline that is a superpower in this era.

And if we're able to do that and suspend our judgement in our conversations, people feel more free to just be I, OK, I can say this.

I know Rama's not going to judge me for this.

It's just, it is what it is that she's going to help me explore it and have a conversation about it.

And I think it's so important because there is a fear of rejection.

There is a fear of how do you balance vulnerability with reliability, especially if you're in a leadership position.

And I see this a lot when I witnessed this with leaders of oh, I don't know if I can be vulnerable.

It's it's going to appear as being weak.

But my offering is how can we communicate value added vulnerability and speak from wisdom and not just the wound?

Because sometimes if we haven't processed whatever's going on in our life ourselves, it becomes an overshare where you can.

It almost feels like I've seen situations where it I'm witnessing trauma dumping going on where I can tell this person hasn't sat with it yet, they haven't processed it yet.

They need a resource maybe to help them.

And I don't know if I'm the resource.

So how can we sit with what's going on in our lives, make sense of it, and maybe speak to the struggle, speak to the conflict.

And if we can speak to the work we've done of you know what, here's what I've discovered, here's the resolution to help me get through it.

I think value added vulnerability can really create breakthroughs in our conversations with how we show up.

Give people a piece of ourselves.

Well, we're not putting the onus on them.

We're giving them the opportunity to think, huh, I've never encountered that.

But the next time I do, I'm going to think about what you've experienced and what helped you navigate through this or how you're currently working through it.

And that's going to empower me in that situation.

Value added vulnerability.

I really like that I, I learn a lot from my, my partner Hector around this with his parenting because he parents like that.

He's so good at it, you know, and I've got teenagers and, and I've started to do it with my older daughter.

If she's making decisions like with schooling and she's totally stressed out.

Recently, I changed my ways and I was like, I'm just going to sit back and listen rather than saying anything.

I was just like, you know what this is?

You know, you're going, you're going to rock it.

You know, I just letting her walk her path.

I think about the role, if anybody's listening or watching this thinking, if you're lucky enough to be a parent, I always think about this.

I, I have an almost 7 year old Nico now and I think I'm, I'm as much as I love him, I'm like, I'm not your best friend.

I'm, I want to be your guide.

I want to be your guide here and show up with the way that you know you need and let, let them know as kids, you know they're going to make mistakes.

Let them know, hey, we make mistakes too.

I still make mistakes.

And that's, that's what makes us human.

And it's OK to make the mistakes.

And if they know, hey, this is a safe space, you know, mom or dad, that they're going to be open to hearing me.

And as as long as you know what I think I'm one of his first calls and not his last call, I think as a parent I'm like, OK, I'm succeeding because he knows it's a judgement free zone and he's going to have support no matter what.

Yeah, does.

Your book is called Every Conversation Counts, and we were raised by parents who engage in the world, who talk to people wherever they go, right?

Doesn't matter where I go.

I'm always engaged in conversation with people.

And my kids do the same thing.

Like it doesn't matter.

Like, and people comment to me about this.

God, your kids, they're not afraid to talk to adults.

We live in a world of people.

And it's like if we're not engaging in the world we live in and with each other, that's the modeling, right?

And I'm sure you're teaching this to Nico just by being the person that you are and engaging in the world in the way you do.

I do wonder about the, the next generation of what connection looks like and how we make sure the basic skills of communication and connection don't atrophy because it's, it's, it's becoming so much easier to connect from a distance.

So I do, I do champion spaces.

I, I think about getting attentional with my son.

The questions I'll ask during the day of, hey, what's something that made you smile today?

How do you think you showed up and behave today?

And to the point, sometimes he'll really open up about something that made him laugh, how he helps somebody.

And sometimes he'd be like, dad, enough with the questions, but how how did the the exercise?

And he knows that I'm going to engage him this way.

And then I watch him of how he engages others and gets intentional.

I learned from him when he puts himself out there and he hits a playground, he's like, hey, I'm Nico.

And he just jumps right in.

I think children have such beautiful imaginations, they lack the constraints, the emotional constraints that we might have as adults of, hey, will I be rejected?

I love the resiliency at this age and I want to embrace that while it's there, encourage it.

And when the rejection comes in knowing that and championing that, we will never have 100% approval of whatever contribution we make in this world.

And I saw that first hand working in the public eye.

I see that as a speaker sharing a message that not everyone will be in and that is OK.

But for the ones that aren't in still getting curious of, you know what missed the mark.

And if it's not a personal attack or a reason, getting curious of how do you just make this more inclusive and taking ownership and accountability of that.

I, I'm always fascinated and curious by that point.

So yeah, to answer your question all about it every day to be not only a guide on human connection, but staying a student of human connection because it's evolving at at a rapid pace.

Staying a student yeah I I see myself as a student of life student of love.

That's that's yeah, ever, ever learning, ever growing.

So I've I've loved our conversation yes and I I know that people are going to listen to this and and take away a lot like I I like I have like thank you so much.

Thank you, thank you.

Thanks for the space and invitation to and and just enthusiasm around around the theme.

What would you say are some takeaways that you asked your audience to consider when it comes down to human connection?

If I could choose one that stands out as something that is easy, that something that would people would remember is just ask first, talk second.

And when somebody shares something, get curious about what's behind that because it's easy when somebody shares a response where we come up.

I was having a discussion yesterday with a financial counselor, and she was talking about the roadblocks in connection.

We try to fix, we compare, we judge.

I was thinking, yeah, we make assumptions based on what we've heard.

Have we truly understood what they've shared?

Because behavior has meaning and what's underneath it.

Is there fear?

Is there shame?

Is there guilt?

Is there loneliness?

And if we ask 1st and talk 2nd and uncover what's really going on and understand the context, especially culturally, there are differences generationally, geopolitically, there's rich context that we might be missing if we jump in.

So ask first, talk 2nd.

And I credit Doctor Priscilla Short that I met at a retreat earlier this year.

Her work is all about mastering our reactivity, leveling up our own self-awareness of understanding what comes up for us.

Why is that?

Sit with the things that might make us feel uncomfortable and ask ourselves these questions before we choose to share them and put the burden on somebody else to process it.

So I think of ask first, talk second as a starting point for connection and watch the beautiful pathways that that that could be unlocked when it comes to connection and relationship building.

Ask first, talk second.

Love it.

Thank you, Riaz, so much.

I really, I really appreciate it.

And I hope everybody reads your book or listen.

I listen to it and read it.

I like listening because I need to get to hear your voice and like you're such a great speaker and it was just really well done.

So thank you.

Awesome.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for listening.

This podcast is hosted by Robin Duchamp.

Please subscribe and Radar Show.

We value your feedback as it helps us bring you the resources you need to improve your relationships.

Visit us at realloveready.com to attend our annual In Bloom Summit and to access more ways to build your relational literacy.

We honor and express gratitude to the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work in place.

Blessings to you in love and in life.