[SPEAKER_01]: Hello and welcome to another episode of DICE Explode.

[SPEAKER_01]: Each week we take a tabletop mechanic and give her a ring to check in and just see that it's doing.

[SPEAKER_01]: My name is Sam Duttlewalt and my co-host today is Maya Wilson.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here she is introducing herself.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, hi, my name is Maya and my podcast is Maya's game room and the first two anthology seasons are the electric state.

[SPEAKER_00]: And upcoming is Starforged, which is a sci-fi campaign.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be a co-op game with me and a good friend of mine.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're really excited for it.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is another episode about actual play, where we're going to set aside mechanics for the weekend.

[SPEAKER_01]: Instead go deep on a single moment of play.

[SPEAKER_01]: And one of my favorite parts of this format has been how we take a clip, go through it beat by beat in slow motion, and talk about how everyone was feeling in the moment, there's a lot of practical lessons to learn there that we can bring back to our own tables.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this episode is in my mind, primarily about that.

[SPEAKER_01]: specifically in the context of safety and communication.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because my year brought in a very intense moment from my years game room, Electric State, Season 1, Episode 5, in which one character in desperate straits is pressured by an NPC to pay for his help with sex.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't be really a front about this, it's an intense moment, it is certainly not for everyone, and this episode won't be either.

[SPEAKER_01]: We aren't going to play a clip, but the whole point here is to walk through a description of this moment in detail.

[SPEAKER_01]: This scene is the kind of thing that could go terribly wrong, not just infection, but in real life at the wrong table.

[SPEAKER_01]: To give this kind of thing right, you really want to play with people you trust to have your back.

[SPEAKER_01]: You get everyone on board with heavy topics and potential trouble in advance, when shit gets intense, you check in frequently [SPEAKER_01]: including players who aren't directly involved, and he checked in afterwards too.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if you do all that, I think you can create some really compelling experiences.

[SPEAKER_01]: Listening to these two women roleplaying out this scene as heavy as it gets is gripping, moving, and unsettling in what is to me at least a good way.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to do this kind of thing at your table, take a listen.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see how it's done.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's learn from it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks to everyone who supports DICE Explorer on Patreon, [SPEAKER_01]: My year, welcome to DICEX Flutter.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so excited to have you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having me.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to get started.

[SPEAKER_01]: What is your background with actual play?

[SPEAKER_01]: How did you get into this?

[SPEAKER_01]: How did you learn what actual play was and how did you learn what tabletop RPGs were?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, where are you coming from?

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, surprisingly, I haven't been in the TTRPG space that long.

[SPEAKER_00]: I founded all in March of 2023.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow, that's really long.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I've tried 44 systems at this point.

[SPEAKER_00]: So just to give you a little idea of my brain, but it was like a work thing where they fly everybody in, and there's workshops and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was a point where there was like a breakout session where it was like during the evening time, people can go golf, or they can go out to eat with different employees and stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: And one guy was like, I'm gonna run a D&D game.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was like, you know what, I've always heard of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I heard it in like stranger things.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then so I joined the game.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had no idea what I was doing, but I did have fun though.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that kind of like really kicked things off for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh my god.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then from there, I learned that you could play the game online.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I found accidentally a pathfinder game.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was like, oh, okay, so there's more systems out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I found that like, oh, these are two crunchy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: These are white crunchy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I went from D&D to Pathfinder, not the way I should have went.

[SPEAKER_00]: But because I found Pathfinder, I realized there's more systems.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was like, I love urban fantasy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I like modern times and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I started looking around and then I found City of Mist.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then City of Mist led to other games in Hiram, 44 systems later.

[SPEAKER_00]: Have been a great time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so how does actual play fit into that story?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I was just looking on YouTube to see like examples of play.

[SPEAKER_00]: I hadn't heard of anybody.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I didn't know who critical role was or dimension 20.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I just found TTRPGs in general.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was looking for examples of play.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I saw that, okay, so people are like recording themselves to do this.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, what is it that you love about actual play?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, at some, so you know, you're watching actual play you're getting in there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, something about this medium, it feels like you must have love.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So much that you wanted to devote a lot of your own time to participate again and like tell me about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I love the, again, back to fantasy high season one for Dimension 20.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really loved the comedy aspect, I loved the improv, and I really loved the chemistry that everybody had together, and it just seemed like, oh my god, they're just having so much fun telling these stories together, and it immediately hooked me, and so after a friend reached out to me, they joined a city of misgame of mine and just told me, hey, I really like your voice, [SPEAKER_00]: I think you'd really really good for actual play and then so we talked for like a full hour and he was like, do you want to start like a YouTube channel together and I'll get a couple other GMs and we'll try this out and so that's how like my actual play journey started last year in February.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then also I was listening to Rolls Beyond Number and was heavily inspired by the sound design and editing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I just love how it kind of just pulled you in.

[SPEAKER_00]: You put on some headphones or some earbuds and you're immediately like the world and the music and the ambiance just washes over you and you are immediately transported.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I had like, [SPEAKER_00]: light editing experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was like, oh, let me give this a try.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I downloaded Hindenburg Pro and got some players together.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I really love the premise for the electric state.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I said, hey, you guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: This game is pretty dark, but I loved this type of stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: Should we make this actual play?

[SPEAKER_00]: Had a really thorough session zero, and I was like, hey, we're going to be serious about this, you guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is not your average kind of live stream actual play.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be edited.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to take out stuff and for story.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, that first season is like, how can I put my best foot forward?

[SPEAKER_00]: That like evokes.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's nowhere near the editing as World Beyond Number, but it's like, [SPEAKER_00]: me try my best.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's a good learning experience for sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, listen, as an editor of 15 years who has done a lot of like fiction, sound design and narrative podcasts, you've done a great job.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I full disclosure, I have only listened to the episode that we're here to talk about today, but like, it felt in the ballpark of worlds beyond number, which is, I mean, maybe a part in testament to how much a little bit goes like a long way.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, at the [SPEAKER_01]: So helpful for these things, but I also I think you're doing a great job.

[SPEAKER_01]: Also as an editor of 15 years I know how much work that takes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, and I have curious to hear you talk about like It sounds like you kind of dove in like this is what we're gonna do We're gonna make it seriously and maybe only then found out exactly what that was gonna mean in terms of time commitment Yeah, but has there been a moment where you have Reckoned with what you have signed up for here [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so when you say Reckon, you're like, I've accepted this truth type of thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or like, or like, or like, been like, oh, shit, I've made a huge mistake.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, whatever that process is like, yes, I felt that towards the end of season one, I was editing and I was like, I can feel myself not liking this anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: There are so much time and as you know, like, a one minute clip.

[SPEAKER_00]: Editing can take like 30 minutes to two hours and then you're just like for a well sound design Yeah, and you're like, oh my god finally done and then you look at your waveforms and you're like, oh, one minute Then you're like Jesus Christ.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, I don't want to hate this because I do like the creative edit side of things [SPEAKER_00]: like adding in all that cool stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I could feel it like kind of creeping in a little bit towards the end of season one.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, okay, so what do I need to do?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because this is still just a passion project.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm editing it on my own, but I still want this to sound, you know, good and edited well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I decided like, I'm going to step back a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think certain scenes can just [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people don't notice a lot of this stuff that you're editing anyway.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have found it to be a really tricky balance because on the one hand, there are plenty of people where like, if I didn't edit this show, like Dice Explorer of just two people talking, they would prefer that.

[SPEAKER_01]: They really just want to hear everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: They don't want anything cut out because they want more time just hanging out with you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not what I like.

[SPEAKER_01]: Some people really, really appreciate how tight I edit this show, for example.

[SPEAKER_01]: But then when you get into the sound design and fiction podcasting in my experience, there's a lot of like the last 10% of polish takes 90% of the work, but like people do notice, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, maybe so much as well you think?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, like in my experience the difference between listening to an episode of my his game room and listening to an episode of worlds beyond number Those feel close, but like worlds beyond number feels ahead, which I think we agree on of course, but [SPEAKER_01]: It also, in my experience, is an editor closing that last gap is, like, full-time job number of hours.

[SPEAKER_01]: And like, I think most people can tell that difference, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: But they can't put their finger on any one individual thing, because they look like one individual things probably don't make a difference, but they add up to, I don't know, I did a whole episode on making a podcast or a DVD show for the try guys, and people can hear me rant more about that there, but I don't know, it's just, it's tough, making these shows.

[SPEAKER_00]: it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: I understand you there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think what I mean is like, I think a lot of people are appreciative of just like basic edits.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like can we hear you clearly?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have good mics?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you kind of cutting out anything that doesn't push the story forth?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I think the sound design side of things is just a cherry on top, which I don't think we need per se, but I think it [SPEAKER_01]: Let's move on from here.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about the electric state as a game.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I know, I'd say a medium amount about the electric state and I have not played it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'd love to hear you tell me both like, what is the pitch for the electric state and then why did you choose it as your sort of inaugural game here?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, in the world of the electors say RPG, it's an alternate 1997 America.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, everything has been split into these new nations after decades of civil war.

[SPEAKER_00]: Society is writing thanks to neuronics.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a hyper-addictive like VR tech.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, people plug into these virtual worlds called Neuroscapes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they put on these kind of helmets that are called neurocasters and they vanish into digital bliss.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like people will stay in these and you'll see like the art is so powerful and evocative.

[SPEAKER_00]: And people, their bodies just start to become amaciated and then eventually skeletons who still have these neurocasters on.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so the landscape is like this mix of war ruins, abandoned tech, corporate control from a company called Sentry, and it's this road trip, so players are travelers.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what they're called, and they're just ordinary people kind of like trying their best to resist this neuroaddiction, everybody has their own goals, dreams, flaws, and it's really not about the destination.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I can't stress that enough.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's really like you have A to B, but the story takes place in between that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, so that's what this season one is about.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just following a group of travelers going from LA to San Francisco.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they'll have their own grief or guilt or some type of purpose why they're all traveling together and why they need to get to San Francisco.

[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, in more detail, what do we need to know about the characters or what has just happened in the series before we get to the moment that we're here to talk about today?

[SPEAKER_00]: So we have Katherine, and she is on a revenge mission to confront and ultimately take out the cult leader who she believes is the cause of her son's death.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then we have Luke, who is on the run in his own way away from his father, who is this crazy political leader in San Francisco.

[SPEAKER_00]: Once he moved to LA, he became friends with Katherine.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so he decided, I'm going to come with you on this trip back to San Francisco because I know the city that's where I'm from.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then we have Ryan, who is running away, there is this kind of a teenage program that the evil corporation century asked teenagers to come and work and then they'll send money back home to their families.

[SPEAKER_00]: He backed out of the deal after signing the contract.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so now he is on the run.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the setup before this clip is all the player characters are in Baker's field and their card needs work in order to leave.

[SPEAKER_00]: And because of the nature of this world now, kind of the pre-apocalypse, people are on their own, you know, worrying about number one, there's a lot of bad people in this world.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so in order to get the help that they need, they run into a gang.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's what's happening right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I'm gonna pause here and just remind listeners of the content warnings that I included the top of this episode for what's coming next and I also really really really encourage people here to like pause this episode that you're listening to and go listen to the actual by his game room episode here.

[SPEAKER_01]: The episode is season one episode five, the cost of a scape electric state RPG.

[SPEAKER_01]: The clip that we are gonna break down here starts around 36 minutes and then plays out for about 15 minutes to the end of the episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna go so far to put an ad break right here so that you either have to listen to ads or you have to go listen to this clip.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that's what's coming up.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna break down what actually happens at this clip.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the first thing that happens is the group approaches the car shop, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Luke is kind of going in hot a little bit and he's looking for repairs and I'm curious to just start out the gate with like, what have you prepped here?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what are you expecting out of this scene?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what are you thinking is you're going into recording this moment?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think, because at the top of each episode I go, here is the goal for the episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't script out the episode, but I just know where we need to be by the end of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, hey, you guys, we got to get out of Baker's field.

[SPEAKER_00]: So whatever you got to do, and then I just let them know that as kind of like a production note.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I just, I knew that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I knew that they needed to get out, and they knew that they need to get out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, they knew that there were men here at the body shop, the auto shop for their car.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, this was literally the only way that they could get out and you need to drive too.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, they got to get their car fixed so that you got to do what you got to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so Luke is coming in hot and he's like, we need help and the goons are like, well, well, well, if it isn't someone who needs help that we could take advantage of.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they kind of initially fight with him a little bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is anything interesting happening in here for you, like this, this feels like just sort of generic, here's what we're dealing with here, like scene setting, like when I'm Yemen, this does not feel like it's the hard part.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, this is just me thinking like, okay, so how would these NPCs act in this type of setting?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like they would be assholes, like they don't care, like they'll try to get one over on you, try to get more than they deserve.

[SPEAKER_00]: So just trying to roleplay that as best as possible.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the best thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's at the top of my mind.

[SPEAKER_01]: And do you know like their leader is named Rusty and he's in the back and he's gonna come out?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd have to check my notes.

[SPEAKER_00]: He might be in my notes that might have been a NPC that came up in the moment.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and like, you know, the place we're going in this scene is like the leader of these guys Rusty is gonna basically be coercing calf into offering sexual favors for payments.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like are we anywhere close to you like thinking that could be something that happens in this scene or something that comes later?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, this was all, I want to say this entire scene from this clip that we're talking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: This was all played to find out.

[SPEAKER_00]: This was not in my notes at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: This came up in the moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: It just, I'll have these kind of powerful ideas that come in my head.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not trying to be weird or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, think that this is what would happen in this type of story.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy, but like, [SPEAKER_01]: feels so right like it really does listening to it, you know, you picked this moment and you send it to me and I was like, oh, is this good?

[SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be what am I getting myself into?

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I listened to it and I was like, oh, yeah, that's of course that's what happens.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it does, it feels right.

[SPEAKER_00]: It feels right and wrong at the same time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it feels right for the story and the extremely Ikki, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Before we kind of get into the play by play there, I'm curious.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what have you talked about with your players in advance of this moment in regards to sexual assault or sexual coercion as content that my co-optering play?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it wasn't that specific, but it's probably good to have that side of things in your session zero documents.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're living documents and I think you know always add to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We had our session zeros and everybody discussed their lines and bills.

[SPEAKER_00]: This wasn't anybody's line or bills, so I kind of knew in the back of my mind that content like this, at least for us, was A.O.K.

[SPEAKER_00]: But as we'll discuss later, still, we took a break because of how gross we felt.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I knew going forward that everybody is fine with content like this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's something I really want to underline is how, when I'm listening to this, I'm captivated by the energy of what is happening between you and the player playing cap.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm also cognizant of how are the players of Luke and Ryan feeling in this moment.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know?

[SPEAKER_01]: And like that's something where it doesn't necessarily make it into the show and I don't know I think in some ways like the fact that the show got published at all and no one is like Talking shit about you publicly like he's everyone like consent it and it's like hey, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so that in and of itself like helps me kind of let go of that anxiety by this time I've done with the episode but it is something that's in my head that feels unique about actual play here that we're not just talking about like [SPEAKER_01]: with their people here who would have a harder time just like turning this scene off if they didn't want to be a part of it than like the audience.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I had a little clip at the end of the episode two just to show us like not in the moment like out of character and I think that helps if people stick around that long just to show that like hey we're also human too and this is how we actually felt and it's okay we broke out of character just so that you know everything's all good on our end if people are wondering like oh my god are they okay like this is crazy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I remember that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I was just, I listened to the whole episode a few months ago when we first started talking about this and then just today we listened to it and did not get to that clip.

[SPEAKER_01]: But now that you like bring it up, I remember it when I was originally listening to the full episode, and I was like, oh, thank God, it's such an, it's like almost like aftercare like debriefing, deroling, not just for y'all as players, but for the listener, like it feels so helpful to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it may be what to, you know what they do like 13 reasons why, when they put the like, don't kill yourself, like warning.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: In the front of it, like I always want those episodes to instead end with like, we're cool guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have said the director said cut.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're all at a character and we are, okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I think even on that show, that's what they ended up doing.

[SPEAKER_01]: When that show sort of was got a bunch of flag for depicting and teen suicide, they had some of the actors like do a little PSA about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: They played it to the beginning.

[SPEAKER_00]: They had to.

[SPEAKER_00]: I never, I didn't watch a show, but I didn't hear about the PSA, but they had to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was, and that's a whole other kind of worms, but like I think here in particular in the form of actual play, it's really nice to have.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I found that I like to add little tags at the end, like that little audio tags because because I take these so seriously that I'm like, hey, you guys before we get started, you guys are in character.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like minimize out of character talks, so you won't hear a lot of out of character talk.

[SPEAKER_00]: not a lot of table talk like a normal live stream.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I kind of add that in at the end just be like, yeah, we're still here.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because once we're in it, I mean, I kind of like that even as if like you were making a really light-hearted show.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's still something about that that's like we're doing the curtain call, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: You see the actors come out on stage and like they take their bows and like we can be like, oh yeah, like that guy isn't the murderer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've heard her just a system directed the mouse trap, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And like, the guy comes out and we're all like, you did a great job pretending to be a murderer.

[SPEAKER_01]: And now we all like, go out into the lobby at like that moment.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, feels really nice.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's that kind of thing for sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: But we're not to that yet.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're just getting started here.

[SPEAKER_01]: So Lucas coming first, he's a little bit hot.

[SPEAKER_01]: The goons are kind of like, no, we're in charge here, fuck you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, Catherine Ryan kind of like, pull Luke back a little bit and then the goons notice Ryan.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they notice, not just what seems to be like an expensive camera, but also notice, oh, he's that guy from a wanted poster that we have.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so I just wanted to raise the stakes a little bit because I know like it's all played to find out, but I have an outline of like everybody's backstory and I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm going to introduce this because I'm all about like, I'm going to throw another wrench in here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know that I told you guys need to get out of here, but along the way, I'm going to throw like horrible stuff in you guys and see how you handle it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was like, I'm going to [SPEAKER_01]: It's so smart.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm just thinking like, okay, he's on the run.

[SPEAKER_00]: I bet that they have some type of wanted poster or there's something his face is out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no way that century is not like putting the feelers out.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's such a smart thing to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think I did a whole episode on P.V.T.A.S.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll play books with Mo Poplar last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the thing we talked about in that episode was how, like, when I picked the Wear Wolf playbook, [SPEAKER_01]: That's me as a player saying I want to have trouble keeping the wearwolf inside of me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's the thing that I'm excited to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like character backstories were exactly the same way.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you've made a character that's on the run, that's you saying, I want people to be chasing me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to have to hide.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want this to be a problem for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want my past to be catching up to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And anything like your job as another player at the table is to look for that kind of stuff [SPEAKER_01]: poke those people to answer the call that that person is putting out there with their backstory.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's another thing, I read it somewhere about like, it being called knives.

[SPEAKER_00]: Something like that, like players are giving you knives to stab them with, like, think, make it along the lines of that and I was like, yeah, these are all the things that they're like, hey, you can poke me with this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so you introduce the one in poster.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, haggling kind of begins, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because these guys are clearly in the position of like, we don't want the company coming in here and fuffing up the good thing we got going.

[SPEAKER_01]: But we do want to milk you for everything we can get out of you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And like, we completely have you over a barrel.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're in a lot of trouble.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we're gonna exploit that as much as possible.

[SPEAKER_01]: And what I love about that is that, first of all, [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, those guys are at a tight spot.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they look like it's like great drama.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it also points to tension within the Goons, because they have this tension of wanting to get as much out of these people as they can, but also really not wanting the company to come in.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a thing that, like, immediately, maybe there's like an end a player could exploit there, but even if there's not, even if the players are just going to be completely over a barrel, it points at like a hole, [SPEAKER_01]: social system, like a multiple people and relationships going on behind in their whole setup.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're all just rats in a barrel trying to crawl away without like just at different levels.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's that type of thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then Luke and Ryan just like, right, they're just like, way around.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: smart move smart move but also like I mean they leave cathol alone like you even give her an out right you're like or you sticking around and she's like well I think I wouldn't have noticed until it was too late and that's really interesting and also like is a nice moment of her [SPEAKER_01]: As a player, again, doing, I think, of like stating, no, I think this is interesting, like I want to stay in this difficult position and see where it goes.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was Meg, that's her play style.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's just what she loves that stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so she, like, there's everything that's in the clip is fully enthusiastic consent on her end.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, she eats this stuff up.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so she was like, no, I'm gonna stay.

[SPEAKER_00]: 9 HP.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you're like your regular human.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, you're gonna run.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of like cowardly moments where you're like, yeah, I'm going to it's, you know, self-preservation.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this is the point where I would start checking in out of character like at my table because on the one hand, I have a similar place to all the meg, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I want to like get into the hottest water.

[SPEAKER_01]: I possibly can't like ruin my character's life.

[SPEAKER_01]: but it is also the case that like there's not another obvious way out of this town and you as the GM and the like producer of the show have said we need to get out of this town folks and so that is a little bit like putting her between a rock and a hard place like logistically as a human BA.

[SPEAKER_01]: Are you thinking about that in this moment like I guess I'm going to ask him like do you stop and check in and out of character at this point or are we just all good still?

[SPEAKER_00]: we are still all good.

[SPEAKER_00]: I of course will stop if anybody's uncomfortable with anything or they're confused and it would all be cut.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like everything that is in the episode everybody is okay with.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I would never keep something in that nobody is okay with.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, up until this point we are still ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: on that note.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to get into the details of anything that was cut because if there was anything that was cut that didn't make it to air like I want to like have respect for the people who didn't want that to air.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm curious like was there stuff that was cut here how much if so?

[SPEAKER_00]: There was nothing that was cut here.

[SPEAKER_01]: OK, I mean, that checks.

[SPEAKER_00]: But not just Meg, because other people could be uncomfortable with these situations.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like the other players could have been like, I'm actually not okay with this.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel really uncomfortable.

[SPEAKER_00]: So can we pause or fast forward?

[SPEAKER_00]: I would have been like, you got it.

[SPEAKER_00]: A, okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: We will montage process or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's audio only, but you can't see everybody's face, like eating popcorn off to the side listening to this.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Did you have like a after the facts after the scene is over?

[SPEAKER_01]: Did you have like an explicit conversation of like, hey, does anyone want to go back and redo that or does anyone want to like leave any of that out?

[SPEAKER_01]: Do anything like that?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I didn't have any of those conversations.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good idea, though.

[SPEAKER_00]: I should start doing it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think you get the implicit consent of everyone in the kind of clip that we were talking about earlier.

[SPEAKER_01]: Of like, after the fact everyone is like, oh my god, you know, we could like see everyone as players.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm not trying to like hold you accountable here, you know, but I also, I don't know, I think being explicit is nice.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, there's just those moments where you're just like, it's probably part of your in character.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm in character as the NPC and you're just so in it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and those kind of like those other things where it's like good to have a producer off to this side to be like, hey, we're going to pause here just so that we can make sure there's like that stuff that would be helpful if someone can take on that load for right now if you're kind of just like a single person like how I'm doing it then be very thorough in your session zeros and then you can have those pauses and breaks but in the heat of the moment it's harder to stop.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's a lot going on as your GMM and you're thinking about what's going to happen next, what's happening right now, where do they need to go?

[SPEAKER_00]: You're also like the producer.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you're like, hmm, that doesn't move the story forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: Going to cut that later.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's so much going on in your head.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think it's easier when, if you have to do that many jobs, you can do them sequentially instead of at the same time, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's easier to like check in with people after the fact, then check in in the moment sometimes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And actually, there's a piece of advice here, I would, I think people could take back to their own tables, which is if you are not in a scene, [SPEAKER_01]: you can pick up some of the slack here, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm at the table with my friends by, yeah, and Meg, and by, yeah, and Meg are like having this intense scene.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like one of the things that I'm gonna try to do is take on the role of looking for moments where maybe they need someone for me to like pause and check in on, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like that idea because there's like, hey, you're going to be the note taker for the session.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to handle scheduling.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, good luck.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think players can help out with that stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a really good idea.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and sometimes, you know, I play a lot of GMless games, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And like, a lot of the time in that, you're sort of naturally doing the like, okay, Megan, my year in the scene, Sam's not in this scene, and so Sam's going to a little bit like run the bartender, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Sam's going to like talk about the rain outside or whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's also true that in the next scene, when Maya and Sam are doing a really intense scene, it maybe makes more sense for Meg to pick up that intimacy coordinator.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like to check in and keep a lifeguard at the player level while people are diving deep into the character level.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good idea.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I like the term, you know, maybe they could be called lifeguards.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's interchangeable.

[SPEAKER_00]: So when you're not in the spotlight, you're the lifeguards.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's, you know, that's a bit good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do we need to that kind of lifeguard for, um, honey house, maybe less so.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, less so.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's nice to like just know what to have that framework in our heads in case someone's bare fobia is coming to the floor.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like, but for games like this, that are just heavy on the soul.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 100%.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay, so calf is now negotiating with Rusty more directly and she starts by just kind of begging like please Pelk and then he Starts I think actually calf is the one who is like we can't pay as much as century But like we have something like can we work something out and Rusty is like [SPEAKER_01]: You know, maybe currency is not the thing that you would pay with, and he is like [SPEAKER_01]: Lots of suggestions, lots of like in you endos like yes, and like you can take them in several ways right like you can take them in the like okay Well, they do have this like beat up car like maybe the thing they're going to negotiate here is like you keep the car and all the good parts on it and like give us a ride to the next town or maybe you're going to sit with this guy I'd like that's what's going to and like he rusty is clearly leaving that door open [SPEAKER_01]: What is it like in this moment where you start to introduce that into the scene?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, because you kind of touched on this earlier of like this feels like the thing that would happen here, and I completely agree with that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But once you have done so, how are you feeling?

[SPEAKER_00]: Once I've kind of, you know, made the propositions and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: what's going through my head is that I'm split-minded.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's weird and I'm trying to explain it the best that I can, but I'm partly my year, the Game Master, and then partly Rusty.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm like, okay, this is Rusty, this is how you would act, it's completely bile and disgusting.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I know this in my head as my year, the Game Master.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm going to propose this idea.

[SPEAKER_00]: Total, it's gross.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm gonna see what happens.

[SPEAKER_00]: But again, I know Meg, and I know she lives for this type of story beats and these type of challenges.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I, [SPEAKER_00]: propose it to her and then I stop and I guess that part is what I cut out.

[SPEAKER_00]: You asked before if there's anything that I cut out.

[SPEAKER_00]: I cut out a pause and I'd probably put that as the audio tag at the end but there is a beat where I stop because I feel so gross.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I make that proposition and then she meets it and I'm like, okay, we're getting closer.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're getting to the point of no return.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know that in my head.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I go, I stop.

[SPEAKER_00]: I go, Meg.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel disgusting.

[SPEAKER_00]: How do you feel?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we kind of just like both laughed because we both feel gross.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like such a needed like release because the tension was going up up.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I stopped for a second.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like the player didn't call it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I called it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel gross, how do you feel?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, do you want to keep going?

[SPEAKER_00]: We're about to pass, we're about to pass it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she was like, she laughed too.

[SPEAKER_00]: She was like, no, no, no, no.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is good.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is good.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was like, okay, so that's just kind of what happened is like, I made that proposition.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I broke character because I could only go so far.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then...

[SPEAKER_00]: we had that moment like we truly needed that break like we needed it was like a minute to wasn't even that long but we just needed like a laugh we needed to breathe and just take a breath and then then I was like okay and we went back into it and the rest of the clip is like she like she makes like a better deal or something like that and [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well I find the the moment that comes after that really interesting and I just listen to it and I want to lay it out because what happens is there's this I would say the peak of harrowing [SPEAKER_01]: moment for me is she describes like I could pay with something else and she like Meg says like I point you're like half kind of points to her body and like can't bring herself to say yeah and like yeah like it's it's really really it is and and then what happens is Rusty's like great all the money that you have plus [SPEAKER_01]: 30 minutes will take a loan together.

[SPEAKER_01]: We will repair the car and get you out of town.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, cath is like, okay, well, I have $900.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Rusty's like, oh, sick.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we can forget the whole way.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a cool course.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot of money.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll just repair your car, get you out of here, and not ride outright.

[SPEAKER_01]: And like, in my mind, this feels like the players back and down, because [SPEAKER_01]: In my mind, Russy still has them over a barrel and has already negotiated this deal.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why is he just letting her off the hook?

[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm glad that he does, because I'm glad they get out of this without that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it is so, so reasonable, even after you've had this check in where everyone is like, we're okay with this.

[SPEAKER_01]: To then go back in and be like, well, let's steer away anyway.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm curious about what you're thinking about in that moment.

[SPEAKER_01]: Enough money or did she just like name a number and you were like that seems like enough or like what was it like where you sort of pull out of a nose dive there?

[SPEAKER_01]: What are you thinking about?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I know that I didn't want it to go all the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think in my head in this moment, I said, we're going to go 95% of the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's enough.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're on the edge of your seat, like, by nearer nails, like, she's not gonna do this, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, please don't, don't, she's, and I wanted to get up to that moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so she presents that number, and I think, I think it's enough.

[SPEAKER_00]: to be like, oh, you didn't mention, you had $900.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's, that's a lot of money.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, in this setting in the 90s, I would say that's a lot of money.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so totally.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was like, I think he would take that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And even if it's not 100% realistic, I think that's okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think maybe that's where the line was for me if she went all the way, so I want to go just up and do the line.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's kind of like in the movie Get Out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like the most realistic thing at the end of Get Out as he's a black man bloodied over a white woman's body.

[SPEAKER_00]: The most realistic thing if the copishow up is that he's getting gunned down.

[SPEAKER_00]: like brutal murder not that his friend shows up and it is he his friend comes and saves a day it's not the most realistic thing but for the audience we get this kind of satisfying beat in the story like you can breathe and you can cheer and you can be like yeah I think God [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you can back kind of every one watching kid out feels what the ending.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's actually would be Instead of yeah exactly and he filmed that alternate ending.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I've seen it on YouTube Yeah, look up the version where I mean he doesn't get gunned down I think of the version they put the film, but there's a version of where he's behind bars Yeah, he's in prison and you're like well, this is depressing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I could see why he did this fucking side Yeah, and so I think there's a thing where you're like [SPEAKER_01]: just give the people there their good moment and I think well yeah yeah and give them the care of like sending them out into the world a little more gently.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean I think get out is a really interesting comparison point in particular we're like yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: you know people remember movie endings way there's like data on this way more than they remember the rest of the movie like if the movie is a great movie and then the ending is a little bit of a let down like people don't recommend the movie right now you see this like game of thrones right like people loved that and now no one talks about like everyone hated yeah and like i think that this is an interesting moment [SPEAKER_01]: in that that's not what happened you actually like you don't go all the way but like what happens next is like okay the boons escort calf back to the hotel like rob her yeah like and it like remains terrible you know I mean the part where you can breathe is that she doesn't give her body away I think that's the biggest thing like okay yeah in that world they're going to rob her fine but like yeah [SPEAKER_00]: like that kind of it's not sexual assault per se, but it's still like she doesn't want to do this, but she is she's technically consenting, but like, doesn't want to.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's like the biggest thing, but like her getting robbed after that, I think people are like, yeah, that makes sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's, yeah, it's rough and like you don't want to get out of this with nothing and like frankly like like they take someone's insulin to Yeah, tell me maybe Ryan is diabetic.

[SPEAKER_00]: Luke is diabetic and I think I think it just makes for more more interesting story because this system is all about the stops and the encounters along the way and so they need a reason to pull over [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why you're like, well, your car needs to be fixed.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to pull over because that's where the story happened.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: The story isn't just, you get on the 95 and you're on the freeway.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then, okay, I guess we could talk in the car.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like, no, it's like, we even have this clip and all this crazy stuff that happened is because their car had like needed to be fixed.

[SPEAKER_00]: They pulled over.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I wanted to take away a few of their things so that they needed more stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: They need more reasons to pull over and talk to people and go into a store and buy stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why I had the goons like shake them down even more.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great choice.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really a student observation about how this kind of story is going to function.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the other comparison here with the ending of this to the ending of Get Out is that this is going to be serial, also, and I feel like if you had crossed the line to have actually selling her body, yeah, I think that would have been something that really [SPEAKER_01]: the rest of your show?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, would have been a start in cloud.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think in real life, even as far as you went, would hang over people for quite a while.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I haven't listened to the rest of the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is entirely possible that that happens here.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that not crossing that final threshold is a good choice so that you don't have to be dealing with the reality of this for the rest of Keth's story.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: That wasn't like a conscious thought in my mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just knew that I didn't want to go that far, but it's good for those reasons that you said to.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because that is something that hangs over somebody that they had to do this.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they had to make these kind of sacrifices that are shameful, which is, that's also a good story telling as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, people have to do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Decisions like that all the time, but I know, hey, we're playing RPG, so we can control the story, and I, I didn't want to go all the way.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's true.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like if you want this to be what the story is about from now on, like more power to you, but you are kind of making that choice.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if that's what happens next year.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think everybody can kind of like breathe easier knowing that it didn't happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, thank God they're only getting robbed.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what, what a, what a thought.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thank God they're only getting robbed.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So after the session, it's not you have this big moment of checking in like in the middle of this month.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: What's it like after you turn the mics off?

[SPEAKER_00]: After we turn the mics off we have our kind of debrief sessions that I do in all my games whether they're kind of these high polished podcasts or the regular actual plays that you see I do stars and wishes and so stars what you liked about the session.

[SPEAKER_00]: It could be what the GM did what a player did a story beat that you liked and then a wish wish to see something happen a goal a wish to see something not happen anymore and that's also our moments to like remove ourselves from our characters.

[SPEAKER_00]: and talk about them in third person to be like, I am not that person, it didn't happen to me, but this was so cool and it's kind of a debrief in moment because bleed is real, a hundred percent, like character bleed and how your character fills, bleeding into you as a person.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a chance to remove ourselves from the story a little bit, so that you can handle that bleed that does come in a little bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to shout out the music in this as like really being a perfect choice to underscore all of this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is that like a track that you have or did you compose it?

[SPEAKER_00]: It was a track.

[SPEAKER_00]: I used a lot of actually the electric state is an art book.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a narrative art book by Simon Stolenhog.

[SPEAKER_00]: He also has albums that he creates.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he has an electricity album that I use a lot throughout season one.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you're either listening to that or you're listening to, I pull a lot of music from Monument Studios.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't be World Beyond Number and start crafting my own music.

[SPEAKER_00]: I will simply fade away.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, full-time job situation will be able to do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I mean, that's the end of the session.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's the end of the moment here.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like looking back at it now, how do you feel about it?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like is there anything else you want to convey about it?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what's your relationship with this moment like now, months later?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's like no regrets, there's nothing that I would change.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think what this has taught me is the importance of safety tools and knowing who you're playing with because I couldn't do this with like brand new people who I just, because I do like open casting a lot because I like playing with new people but I wouldn't do this with new people.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had to claim with Meg for a long time up until this point.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know her play style.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad we had the session zero.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think this whole experience is like, thank God you had that session zero.

[SPEAKER_00]: You talked about Lindenville's because can you imagine if we didn't have, like the mess that this can turn into if it's not hand-to-well, is what I think about sometimes.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, this could have been horrible.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's like a lot of points that came together well to make this all work.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I had to be comfortable, all the players, not just Meg even though she's like the main character in this point.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like everybody has to be comfortable.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like the other players could have stopped as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just thinking about all of that and how important it is to communicate and stop and take breaks where you need it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, when you're creating these high polished podcasts for actual play, I would always tell myself, like, because I'm making something that I would want to listen to, I don't really like that much out of character talk.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I go, like, when I press record, you guys, we're in it.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's not that much table talk, but I learn, like, hey, it's okay to stop it.

[SPEAKER_00]: This kind of taught me, like, hey, you could take a breath.

[SPEAKER_00]: Even the GM can call for it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, lines and vowels are not just for players.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when you feel uncomfortable, that's on you too.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can also say, like, let's stop, real quick pause.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, a lot of that stuff, like, safety stuff came up because this could have went horribly if it was handled well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I should, when you're looking at this moment after the fact when you're putting it together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: How much are you thinking about your audience?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, are you thinking about, like, is your audience just not gonna want to hear this or be a part of this?

[SPEAKER_01]: And like, like, obviously people can just turn it off and that's fine, but are you concerned about losing listeners?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, are you concerned about, like, screening this on people?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how are you thinking about audiences you edit?

[SPEAKER_00]: I will I will be honest and I'm better about it now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't use content warnings.

[SPEAKER_00]: That wasn't just something that came into my mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think this was like my first podcast and so lots of like learning.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's the case for a lot of people who are just starting out.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, let's just sit down at the table and try to tell a cool story together.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then it wasn't [SPEAKER_00]: until I started talking to other podcasters and getting comments from people about this moment, about content warnings in general, that I thought, okay, this is actually important.

[SPEAKER_00]: I will now start putting this in my descriptions at the top of the episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, thanks for coming on the show and breaking this down with me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I found listening to this moment with the critical, I'd be like really illuminating and educational for like how to approach safer play at the table.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I hope people got that out of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I hope so.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've had people message me and they're like, oh, this part is really uncomfortable.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, yeah, that's how it's supposed to make me feel.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, feel free to skip.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maya, thank you so much for being on the Dose Explorer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: What a pleasure to have you.

[SPEAKER_00]: This was so fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks again to Maia for being here.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can listen to Maia's game room and they're upcoming Starforged campaign wherever you get your podcasts right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you can find Maia on Blue Sky at Maia's game room.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks to everyone's sports dice, explore her on Patreon, as always, you can find me on Blue Sky at dicexplutter or on the dicexplutter discord.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you can find my games at S-DoneWalt.it.io.

[SPEAKER_01]: Our logo is designed by SporeGory, our theme song is Sunset Bridge by Julie Gray, and our ad music is Lily Pad's bummer boy, [SPEAKER_01]: Hesmoor, Travis T.

Wow.

[SPEAKER_01]: No one's got a better DJ than him than that.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Travis T.

I remember when he first told me that, John, it's just so good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks to you for listening.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll see you next time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sam out.