I'm Manny Noah, and this is no such thing.

The show where we settle our dumb arguments and yours by actually doing the research.

Today's episode is a mailbag episode.

We're gonna be talking about dishwasher etiquette, we're gonna be talking about right wing conspiracy theories, and we're gonna be answering a question about how exactly the three of us met.

No, there's no no such thing.

No touch, thank no touch, thank touch, thank you, no touch.

Thank you.

All right.

Our first question is from a listener named Kimberly.

I'll read it now, Dear Many, Noah and Devin.

Years ago, when my husband and I of nearly twenty five years were in couples therapy, we often discussed our dislike of how each other loads the dishwasher.

Apparently this argument often comes up in couple's therapy.

We have yet to come up with an agreed upon solution.

I have had twenty seven roommates in my lifetime and that argument came up multiple times.

In fact, one roommate left because of the disagreement.

Thanks and keep up the good work on your show.

So essentially this this person wants us to find out the real proper way to load a dishwasher, and I did a little bit of digging.

But before we get into that, I'm just curious, like, has dishwashing etiquette ever played a role in your guys's lives and your relationships?

Has it ever been a source of tension?

I want to say tension, but me and my fiance are right at odds.

I mean, it's.

Well, do just I have my style and she and what are the two styles?

It's basically up or down for the utensils is oh is I think the biggest contention because most of it here's my process.

Most of it's pretty obvious.

Mugs, cups are going to go on the top, they're going down obviously, so it's not filling with the water.

Plates.

Everything else is going in the plate section.

So I think our the only area we're really different is should forks and spoons and knives be pointing up or pointing down when you're a team up.

I'm team up for you know, sharp knives, I'll put those.

Down for safety, I'm going to hurt myself.

But spoons, everything else I want up.

And here's why, partly because well, what's nice is hopefully there's a little kind of grid section where there's a little separation bringing them all in.

What I worry about when we're putting spoons down in the larger areas is the spoons especially are gonna you know, I'm holding this is a podcast, but I'm holding up my hands.

They're going to spoon together.

So yeah, it might not get cleaned clean.

And we use a lot of spoons in my house because we're cooking this dog food.

We go through mainly spoons.

So if we're putting those head down, I'll say I'm not trust not really, because they'll and not to mention the water pressure.

Up and down.

Who knows what's going on with this building.

It might there might not be any water touching these things, So yeah, put them up that way.

It's getting sprayed, it's getting rubbed down.

These are being cleaned and there's no all the food's getting off there and trickling down Versus here's another thing.

The thing's down.

Even if the water is getting in there and it's getting cleaned, the food might get you know, sometimes there's bigger pieces of food or something.

It might be stuck down there.

So then when I'm unloading, if there's extra food, it's gonna be on the top of the spoon and not if there is detritus or something, maybe just a little bit on the very bottom, not such a big issue you maybe, yeah, do a quick little rints off, wipe it off, whatever, depending on what it is.

It's on the end of the fork or the spoon.

Now it's like, I need to watch this run.

I need to really run this.

Yeah, what are Julia's pros for putting it down?

I think it's just that's how her family did it.

So, yeah, my brother and his wife had the same issue.

So the thing like, yeah, you.

So, and I'll say both of both me and my brother have won the battles.

Okay, so she does it your way.

They've conceded.

Wow, I thought the fight was everybody's just doing it doing it.

No, I mean, now she does it my way, so we don't have We've avoided couples therapy because of this.

I talk about dumb stuff of my therapist all the time.

So I understand you.

Got a lot of time.

Yeah, sometimes I'm like, why am I paying this about this.

Scrape in the bottom of the barrel?

What else?

What else.

I can share that in my households, we're not really at odds because we do like it'll be someone's duty to do the dishwasher, so like we were not doing it at the same time, so it's not you know, we don't run into any issues.

But the loading though, like one person loads it.

Yeah, so like if if if I cooked dinner, Mia will load the dishwasher.

But okay, but there certainly has been a few instances where we both did it at the same time.

And clearly, you know, mea my beautiful, smart wife who never does anything wrong, who I would die for, she will like she loads the dishwasher in a way that's very orderly, very like tetris.

How can we get the most things in there, which is fine.

I think it's great.

It does take it through before she's doing it, she's almost.

There's a strategy.

Yeah, and I see, and I think it's beautiful because when she does it, I'm not doing it and I don't care do what however you want.

When I do it, it's more like it's like freestyling.

Like it doesn't take me nearly as much time because I'm just making sure everything is throw it.

I space things out, but like you know, it's obvious organized big things on the bottom, smaller things on the top.

I do go forks up forks and spoons up, and I've never I've never thought about it, really.

I just kind of imagine that the jets or whatever are.

Hit the spoon.

But Devin, you don't have a dishwasher.

I've been in my place.

Out here washing the dishes manually.

That's why he's in such great shape.

It is.

I think about this all the time, the amount of time I spend washing dishes every single day.

It is nasty.

It's nasty, but it's just and it's just me.

I'm like, how do I have so many dishes?

Every day?

You finished washing them and then you got to wash them again.

Yeah, So I haven't had a dish washer almost the entire time I've been in New York.

I've been in New York ten years.

I did have a dishwasher for the first year I was here.

I don't remember any arguments about how we were loading it unloading it.

And then growing up, we never used a dishwasher.

Really, we always had a dishwasher, but like, I don't know if they didn't work, I don't know why, but they.

Were just easier to just I think it's very common to have a dishwasher.

We use it.

Well, we asked you.

This my only thing that I do hear people arguing about.

And in terms of dishwashers, just how much you need to clean your dishes before you put them in there?

Oh yeah, yeah, what is I'm you know, big pieces.

Obviously I'll take off, but I bload them up in there pretty dirty.

Yeah, and it comes out pretty clean for the most part.

You might get every once in a while, I might get like a little thing you have to do again, But.

Yeah, I try to.

I try to basically do a just a very brief rint, swash it down anyway.

Yeah.

Usually it's like one pass like yeah, yeah, but like I'm not you know, do a quick scrape if you know, there's certain foods that are going to stay more so I try to do my best with that.

Yes, yeah, but I don't go crazy because it's like I basically run the dishwasher every day, so it's like it's not a huge deal of something stuck and then I just need to do another to pass at it.

Or then it's like I'll take it out and now I'll just scrub it like.

Yeah, And it does depend on how how quickly after eating you put it.

In the wash.

If it's sitting in the sink for a while, the things are crushed up, and then that actually does not work in a dishwasher.

So let's talk about how to properly load them.

My guess is like anytime anyone's arguing about how to load the dishwasher, they probably largely agree like eighty five to ninety percent about what they're doing in there.

There's these little margins that that take people off.

There's not that many options.

Yeah, it's like there's only so many things you can do in the dishwasher.

But when I was digging up some research on this, I found this guy, Andrew Laughlin.

He's an English journal list.

He's a tech writer who's now kind of I think leaned into I would say, calling himself a dishwasher expert.

Came out with an article recently about how to properly load a dishwasher.

I will say this is like from a tech expert point of view, I think after we read his perspective, I think we should also look at like does Maytag or Whirlpool or one of these companies have actual, real instructions on their website.

So let's start with Andy.

I'm just gonna go through his list.

He's got kind of a list of things in this article for which, okay, scrape the plates, but there's no need to rinse them.

Knocking off lumps of leftover food before loading the dishwasher will give it the best chance of getting everything clean, but most dishwashers will pre rinse your dishes anyway.

You don't need to run them under the tap.

It's a waste of water.

Number two, Now here's what I learned when I was looking up.

I didn't know this.

Uh, the dirty side of every item should face the center of the dishwasher.

Oh so when.

You're looking let's say you're in front of your dishwasher and you're looking down on it.

You want to put a bowl on the right side of the dishwasher, it should be facing the left, like all the items should be facing the center.

That makes it, I mean, yeah, I mean the way my the rack is set up is yeah, incentivizes that.

Yeah, which is I only noticed that after I read this.

I was like, oh, yeah, of course they're slanted in a way that It's like I didn't know.

I just kind of dirty faces needs to face the center.

Yeah, the water is coming in.

Oh yeah, because the water is shooting from a thing in the center.

Yeah right, yeah, that makes sense.

Number three is and this is another thing I do wrong.

Don't overload the dishwasher.

Yeah, leave a lot of space between dishes and cutlery for the water and detergent is spread around.

I'm I'm a I I just stacked as much.

How often do you run?

We're going once a day, at least at least at least yeah minimum, Yeah, sometimes twice a day.

It's exactly like my shower routine.

At least once my plate's getting washed.

Another one, cups and glasses up top that one.

I think no one's really arguing about that one.

I think Okay.

Number eleven, here's the key one.

It's called the key to loading cutlery.

The reason your utensils don't always get clean could be because like for like items are sitting too close to each other, meaning there's no space for the washpoon.

That's what Noah was saying about the spoons that are that spooning.

This issue known as nesting, can happen when spoons lean into each other.

To solve this place, some upright and some downwards.

I wasn't expecting.

I wasn't expecting.

It makes sense if we're if it's a kind of loose area you're putting them into.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

If you have a nice one that's gritted, so it's separating each one, it's not conn because they're never going to say they're just they're not touching.

So I'll accept that.

Yeah, because I can see the I have like one utensils kind of compartment, but half of it is gritted, and yeah that's half.

Yeah, free for all, So that's interesting.

The exception to this rule is knives.

It's safer to just put them pointing side down.

It's like I wrote this.

Yeah, now here's a couple of other things you mentioned in the articles.

Can you add items to the dishwasher after.

It's started, just leave it alone?

Did it just start once I press start, I'm like, it's over that things locked into If.

It's if it's if you just hit it, I think you could stop it.

Yeah yeah, yeah, basically if it's an hour and just let it go, yeah, because then it's really hot in there.

I don't know if you guys have.

Yeah, and it's like yeah, just wait okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

There are times when I don't even realize it's still going, and you know, there's just something and it's like, oh, I open it up in.

Yeah, I can't even like put in there.

It's burning.

Yeah, He says most most dishwashers tend to run a pre wash stage first, which is equivalent to us just running it under the faucet.

Totally fine to open the dishwasher at that stage.

I would agree with that.

After ten minutes or so, probably in there, yeah, not even at least after ten minutes or so, better to just let it finish it.

So that was our dishwasher expert.

Uh Andrew Lachlan.

Now here's the thing.

I've seen some of the some of his videos on TikTok.

They're very viral, millions of views on these things, but a lot of engineers and plumbers and other tech experts will be in the comments saying, actually, what you're saying is wrong.

So I think it's still ends up being a matter of preference for the most part.

But I thought it would be a good idea to go to like the actual website of a dishwasher manufacturer and see what they say and see how closely.

It aligns with what Andrew says.

All right, who we got We're gonna go with Maytag.

All right, so here's the Maytag website.

They've got their own article up called how to load a dishwasher the right way.

Step four.

Load utensils into the utensil basket.

Forks, knives, and spoons should be placed in the utensil basket.

Loads spoons and forks with their handles facing down so the utensils can get a proper clean.

So I think they mean the functional parts facing up.

Yeah, so that's a that's.

A no dub noh innocent.

Sharp knives should be loaded with the blades down to protect their hands while unloading the dishwasher.

They need to put that before someone them.

Someone's definitely done that.

Put their hands all knives, goddamn me.

And then here's some tips.

Place larger items in the back of the rack near the wall of the tub.

Fill gaps with smaller dishes.

Use the utensil basket to space out all your utensils and other small items like reusable straws.

Avoid putting plastic items on the bottom rack, as this rack is closest to the appliance's heating elements.

Oh so tupperwars, I just want to go on the upper rack, I guess because they're not as affected by the heat.

Leave some room.

This is this all kind of makes sense.

A lot of insightful stuff in there.

So I hope our listener learned something.

I hope one of the answers in there lets you own your husband.

Yeah, and good luck with your marriage.

Yeah, twenty five years.

It's a long time.

Clearly wasn't that big of an issue.

No, they're working, hope not.

Our next mail bag question was emailed to us by manted Pouts.

There have been several stories that circulated over kitty litter being in liberal school district classrooms because some kids identified as cats.

I have friends whom I cannot convince that this is a false story.

I've offered them one thousand dollars if they could show me a school board meeting where it was even seriously addressed in the minutes of the meeting.

No such thing.

What do you think?

Yeah, I remember, I think we were both working at NBC when this fiasco happened, and it is essentially what I can remember is that like a bunch of like right wing pundits and politicians were like, well, look at this, it's so crazy.

Even kids are identifying as cats, and that's why they wanted kitty litter in class.

My friend his wife is a school teacher and she works at a school that had to install a litter box in the girl's room because there is a girl who's a furry who identifies as an animal.

I think a big part of this story was like, this is around obviously a lot of conversation in regards to trans rights, and people were saying, Okay, if you let children pick their pronouns, then what next are going to be identifying as trees and other things?

And then then they were like, oh, now there are children identifying as cats, and this is all because we let trans people have right slip.

Yeah, exactly, the story time or whatever.

Yes, yeah, the drag crag.

Exactly.

If you let trans people exist, your kids will eventually be cats.

My main memory of this actually is at our former colleague Ben Collins wrote a story about this.

He at the time was debunking a lot of like right wing conspiracies, and so I actually just called Ben to have him explain this one to me.

Okay, manny in company.

Hello, it is good to hear from you.

I don't know why I'm hearing from you for this reason, because it's the worst fucking reason.

But here it is litter boxes in schools.

So in twenty twenty one, there was a person who started a rumor in the Prince Edward Island Public School Facebook group saying that litter boxes have been placed in schools to make it so furries have a safe place to go to school.

This was bullshit, didn't exist, they said.

The kids identified as cats, but it obviously struck a nerve with transphobes and pieces of shit who are trying to conflates furries, trans people, any gender nonconforming thing.

Up in New England, they had litter boxes.

The accommodations for this child who identifies as a cat.

In this if you don't know what furries are, it's were school children dress up as animals, cats or dogs during the school day.

There was never in Prince Edward Island or otherwise any litter box in that school.

So the issue is this took off like wildfire on Facebook because of the algorithm.

A couple months later, a lady in Midland, Michigan, went to her public school board meeting and said there were kids identifying as cats and they were peeing in litterboxes and.

School and stuff.

That wasn't true either.

Then it really took off because people like Lauren Bobert and a bunch of other congressional candidates in twenty different places in the United States.

By the time we reported the story in NBC newsers me and my colleague Tyler and Kaid Brandy's Drows and he Bengogian.

We called every single school district that was alleged by GOP congress people or candidates to have litter boxes in schools, and zero of them obviously had litter boxes except for one.

In that one place where there was litter cat litter in a bucket.

It was in a thing called a go buckets and it was in Colorado, and it was the Jefferson County School District, And the Jefferson County School District is the home of Columbine.

And those those go buckets were used in the event of an incredibly long school shut down or kids had to stay locked down in their classrooms because of a school shooting or something similar.

So this is how evil this is in in cities, this is this trans panic that existed that targeted, you know, all these kids with this bullshit rumor from scared adults, spawned of the very problem that is the heart of the American sickness, which is basically Columbine necessitated go buckets.

Go buckets had cat litter in them, and then from there it's fonnded this ridiculous moral panic about kids acting different in any way anyways.

It's evil.

It's one of the worst stories ever worked out in my life.

And I hope you have a great day, have a good day everybody.

By the KIDDI litter thing was always bullshit.

I didn't know about the Columbine aspect of it, that there was actually litter there, you know, for a very practical and tragic reason, and that it was kind of repurpose to essentially, you know, mitigate any progress with the social acceptance of trans people.

The worst aspect of these kind of stories is that when you when you know, the guy who emailed us, he's going to go to his friends and prove that it was bullshit.

And the worst fucking thing the friends are going to say is, well, isn't it crazy that it could be?

Isn't it crazy?

That the left has gone so nuts.

Unfortunately, dear listener, there is no satisfying your friends.

Well, it's the classic case of Springfield eating the pets things, where you just one after one doesn't matter.

It's like the person who says the thing never has to actually prove that it's happening.

You just have to disprove that it's happening by finding countless of examples of it not happening.

You know.

It's like the burden of proof is always on the person with the common sense.

All right, well we got up next.

We got an email from Cynthia reading versus listening to news.

So Cynthia says, does watching news or listening to podcasts count as reading the news and newspapers?

So this obviously is a throwback to episode one of No such Thing, which everyone should.

Listen to the pilot.

Yeah, pilot episode which is about the audiobooks count is reading.

My news consumption is primarily drew audio, even when I was working at a news organization.

It's just because it's like, you know, especially I listened to most of the news in the morning when I'm getting ready for work walking the dog.

Right, It's like I'm listening to news so I can get caught up right, like it's not for me, like, oh, let me sit down and like open up the newspapers like a fun part of my day.

It's like I need to know what's happening in the world, and I think so.

And I also think public radio and a lot of these you know, in these nprs, local radio does some of the best reporting about things in the New York City area.

So it is also just like, you know, if I had the option to read something, I don't think I would get as good of information as I do from some of the public Yeah, exactly, shut out Brian Lair.

All right.

I guess like the big the big picture news like a bombing happened in this city, like that, the vehicle of that information has completely shifted to audio or TV.

When I read the New York Times or any other outlet, it's some kind of analysis versus like, here's what happened.

So it's an interesting question, what have you learned about it?

Noah.

So, someone who did research on this wrote an article in The Wall Street Journal a couple months ago summing.

Up what they found.

The main kind of top line stuff is that you don't get as much detail when you're just listening, and you get a kind of worse or more negative perception of the news when you're listening versus reading, I think because you're not picking up as much detail, so you just have a I believe it's called negativity bias, so you hear anything bad and you'll just focus in on that.

If you're asked then like to kind of list your main takeaways, it'll be on the negative things.

I think the example they did in the research was, I think she's a professor of marketing, so it was more on the kind of consumer product side, But it was basically like people were given an article about a shampoo, and the people who read it came away with a more even sort of sense of it versus the people who listened only kind of noticed about maybe a you know, a possibly bad item in it or ingredient or something, and the negative effects that would have and none of the positive that this product would have on your hair or whatever, which which I think makes sense, like if you're listening, I mean, I think it just goes back to kind of the classic like why all the news is seems so negative and if it bleeds, it leads sort of thing where it's, yeah, it's just more interesting to hear about bad things then yeah, like oh, it's a nice day out, everyone's happy.

Like there's not much to say there, you know, And.

That's the stuff that's going to get emphasized, especially in these like smaller slots on radio where you know, that's the thing.

I listened to a lot of radio, so like I get a lot of news from it, but you can a lot of people will be like, oh, I just listened to like a ten minute recap, you know, to do those sort of things, and that will be all the information they have in that story.

And sure, those are like fifteen seconds slots where they're trying to give you what you need to know.

So you're going to remember the negative thing because that's going to be the thing that emphasize.

They're not going to say, oh, yeah, and the shampoo does a whole bunch of great things.

Yeah.

It's basically you're getting the headline versus the body and the details that might have a little more context exactly.

I wonder like if someone listening to something, you know, like the Daily, which is like more in depth on one topic, would have that same.

I see away yeah, my son should probably be less of a but I'm sure, Yeah, I'm sure.

I think overall probably yeah, similar to just the audiobooks reading thing as far as what you retain, but I would assume where it's longer form and more in depth, you're gonna get a little bit more of the nuance than like a five minute news piece you're listening versus reading.

Okay, it's just from Jessica.

I have a super important question in a traffic situation involving a school bus with the stop sign out of course, an ambulance with flashing lights, and a funeral procession.

Who has the right away?

So we got a school bus, yeah, yes, with the stop sign out.

Yeah, an ambulance with flashing lights in a funeral procession.

All right, So I'll go for the.

Ambulance yeah, yeah, yeah, it's kind of easy.

Ambulance number one.

Yeah, watch out for the kids.

Number two Yeah, yeah, I said the school if we're putting them in order of yeah, okay, ambulance, school bus, the funeral.

Sorry, the person's dead already.

I didn't want to say it, but yeah, it's like, yeah, that's more of a courtesy thing to exactly, that's not law the stop you know, in an ambulance driving, it doesn't mean they can they can just run over people.

It's like obviously they're not going to smash into things for people.

Yeah, but yeah, that's that's the most pressing issue clearly.

Yeah.

So but here's another angle to this.

All right.

I agree that like, let's hear.

I agree that, like the the most urgent, like who's who's who needs to be saved right now?

That should be the person who gets to go.

Yeah, but I'm curious about whether there's like a legal aspect to this, Like if the bus is parked and the stop sign is out, going through the stop sign is like, isn't that like a felony or something like.

Not to hear an ambulance with the lights on.

I know, but that's what the legal question is.

But it's not a private and it's like police are like you you're allowed to do it.

Yeah, police drive through lights all the time.

All right.

What if the ambulance drives to the stop sign and hits.

A kid, Well, this city will probably get sued.

That's what I mean.

That doesn't mean it's illegal.

We're not talking about hitting a kid.

I know, I'm right, now, yeah, I stop sign illegally illegal to hit kids in all cases, it was the funeral procession that ran me over.

No, but then you could the ambulance driver wouldn't be uh prosecute.

I don't think, well the.

Prosecuted in either situation to be on if they hit a kid.

Yeah, if they were, unless they the sirens, unless they're a negligent.

Yeah, that's yeah, That's what.

I'm curious, like, Yeah, what is the if there's like any kind of illegal thing to it, where there is actually a right answer.

I don't think the right answer is always emergency vehicles.

Get the right I feel like there's yeah, a school.

Bus is not getting a right away over emergency vehicle.

Should they close the stop signs they see the.

Driver let any kids off the bus at that point Mitchell Holdan closed the door.

Yeah, I mean he's getting spitballs shot.

Yeah.

I'll look into this to check if there is some sort of real proper answer.

But yeah, I mean I believe she says that this happened to.

Her, Yes, so that the Jesus asked this.

There has been a pressing question in her life since her aunt passed fifteen years ago.

Sorry about that.

Uh, and they encounter this while driving to the cemetery.

So they were in the procession.

Yeah, unfortunately, I you know, rest in peace to your loved one.

But that was the easiest one on the bottom of the Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I think it's school bus an emergency vehicle here.

Yeah.

I mean I feel like no one, even the funeral director couldn't argue that.

Yeah.

So I mean, well, we'll call up a police I'll look it.

Yeah, I'll call down.

Really, no, thanks, we should we should be like, yeah, sure.

Who would they arrest first?

Yeah, because the cop is gonna arrest all of everyone.

Yeah, the kids kids first, they're getting drags to Alligator Alcatraz.

It's from Fountain Valley dot gov.

California.

Emergency vehicles with active lights andro sirens have the right of way and drivers must yield to them.

The California Your Vehicle Code state you must yield the right of way to any police vehicle, fire engine, ambulance or other emergency vehicle using a siren in red lights.

So that means the bus.

The school bus driver closes the stop sign, waits for the sirens to go by, then, to be honest, he puts the stop sign back out.

The funeral people have to wait until the kids get on the bus.

Yes, yeah, the bus drives off.

Funeral procession may proceed.

Yeah, yeah, that may.

I mean that's that seems fair to me.

Yeah, it seems fair to me too.

Allow it.

I'm not going to change this.

One, all right.

So then we have one last question from Catherine.

Can men and women really be friends?

This is uh this when Harry met Sally?

I assume she means can men and women be friends without one person helping?

Feelings?

No romance?

Yeah, maybe the wrong group of guys that asked this.

We're too we're too soy boy liberals.

We all have friends who are women.

I don't see gender who are not romantically.

Yeah, this seems like a pretty easy yes.

I think it's I have.

Many friendships that are with the opposite gender that are extremely platonic.

Yes, extremely.

This is always such a this has been Like, I think it's a valid question.

I know people debate all the time.

To me, it's just like so bizarre because it just assumes that men and women always want to have sex with one another, no matter what they look like.

Yes, you know, like like there's not Yeah, there's nothing guiding any attractions.

It's just like, yes, you're a woman, I'm gonna, you know, try to have sex with you at some point.

And just like there are certain like you're attracted to some people, you're not attracted to some people.

Yeah, well there.

And there's there's there are people that I'm friends with who I would say are attractive.

Yes, that I'm I know, and and maybe because we're we are friends, it's like I would never want to be with you, yes, like yeah, you're actually you look great, you have great qualities, but not for me.

This would not work, Like I'm not going to work for you.

Yes, you're not going to Like that's it.

And that's to be proof in my life where it's like, yeah, this case closed.

But what if the question isn't can can they be platonic friends?

What if the question is can two people of you know who are attracted to each other be platonic friends without ever thinking about it, without ever having the thought here and there.

Without having the thought, yeah.

I think this is maybe what she's asking.

Like then if you're if you're thinking about it, it kind of changes the foundation of the relationship.

Maybe I think you still can't I mean life is not a rom com yet there, you know, there're yeah, I think all of us were friends with people who eventually ended up being our partners at some point, but that's not every single person of the opposite sex.

And even vice versa.

You can be friendly with someone you're with, yes, yeah, yeah, yes, And there is like to the extent where it's like you don't even it's not even like, oh, it's like my ex that I get coffee with and we catch up, but it'll be like maybe something happened, and then it's like, oh, yeah, we did do that.

Yeah I used to.

Care about it, and it's like yeah, it's it's like not even an afterthought.

It's like it's hard to even imagine that happened.

I think there is.

I think there is a version of a man that you know, we don't really surround ourselves with, who would say that it's not possible for men to be friends with women.

And I think there is a there.

There is, I guess, a version of a man that, like any person of the opposite sex, they would try it on the table, Yeah, a romantic relationship or sex with or something to that degree.

Yeah, like they would yes, like yeah, it does what they would.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just yeah, that's but I don't know, it's just so bizarre to me.

I'm just like, yeah, dude, like we're not just like animals, and you know, it's like people have personalities, like they're like, do you want to have sex with every single woman you see?

It's just like that's crazy to me.

Yes, it was a low way.

Oh yeah, young money.

And then the last question, also from Catherine, can you please share your friendship story?

Inquiring minds want to know.

It's funny.

I feel like I've talked about how I know you two more than I've talked about how I know anyone in mine.

God damn life.

I've never had to explain how I know someone as much as I.

You know, but we're going to point to this time code.

Yeah, we have to do it a lot, but I don't think it's all on wax, so to speak.

No, we've said it individually.

Two people especially like, oh what is the podcast?

Oh how do you know each other?

Long story shorts?

Somebody too long?

Didn't read well?

You always tell the story, nuanced you you shorthanded a little bit.

Me and no one knew each other first that's.

A good point.

You guys didn't exist until I met you.

Yeah, exactly.

So yeah, until we were put into your world, your sandbox.

Me and uh went to college together.

I wouldn't say we were really friends in college, but.

We knew we had some classes.

Yeah, we had some mutual friends.

Have you ever did you ever think I'd hang out with that guy?

Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, but not like it wasn't like let me text Devin.

No, Like I didn't have his number.

No I did.

So this is this is really you know, for the real heads here, some real lure.

I was interning at some shirt company making like social videos before that was kind of even really a thing.

So they like gave me some shirts and we're like, you know, film some people wearing them.

And I was like, okay, who do I know who can fit this shirt?

Because the shirt they gave me was kind of a small shirt and.

It was like a like a kind of like the shirts made for people who are short.

Yes, like I don't know that, Yeah it was.

Well, the idea was a button down shirt long sley.

Yeah, like it was.

The idea was like yeah, basically yeah, that's right.

It was a button that you didn't have to talk in a more cou button down.

So I was like, well, Noah, I feel like proportion size makes more sense.

Could could wear it is So, I don't know how I reached out to you.

That was the only time we ever that I can think of that we actually hung out one on one like, one on one like.

So this is like a photo shoot video.

Actually I made him come to my I had an apartment right across from the cathedral.

Wow.

So we went to the roof and I made him.

It was maybe ten fifteen minutes.

Yeah, just like, walk, smile, look at the camera.

We need to pull it, we need to find the Yeah, I have a video next.

The next email is going to be like, can two guys be for friends platonically if they invite each other over for a little.

So, Yeah, me and Nolan knew of each other after college.

I work at the Business Insider and then our friend Max Yeah applies.

I say, I know that guy.

He starts working there, and then he told me that you were moving to the city.

You guys were living together.

He said you were going to apply and I said, yeah, I know him.

I can't vouch for him.

I know this guy.

It seems like a normal guy.

Yeah.

Yeah, and then he started working there, did you?

But many started Yeah, he started a few months before me.

Yeah, I was October twenty fifteen.

Ye didn't.

I didn't know anyone there.

I do remember going through your resume.

I interviewed completely impressed.

You're blown away by how how I was like the floor director of like a local news station.

All the guys would What.

I remember from the interview is that it was me and another person doing the interview, and we asked you like, Okay, if you were to do a story on the news thing today, what would it be?

And it could I could tell you consumed news, which I was like, yeah, that's that's the bar right now.

It's like someone who knows what's happening.

Who's the president right now?

Yeah.

So yeah, then we were all three of us are working together making primarily news videos, quick turn videos.

So we had a pretty like tight knit group.

We were pretty closer together.

And what I remember specifically is that lunches.

We ate a lot of a lot of lunches together.

And then you know, we were using this program program it's thing called slack messaging, this messaging thing, and so we would have one for our team, and then I remember we kind of made our own.

Yeah, we had to split off.

We split off to really talk about real guys exactly.

You know, like did you listen to the new Cardi B album?

Yeah?

So we you know, we started to say like, oh, we have similar interests, we were in a similar movies.

Yeah, And it's just you know, the classic sort of thing like you think about it with like college, where you're like, all right, you're in a bigger group and then you're like, oh, these guys, yeah, I have things in interest with them, and then it sort of and then we talked.

We would talk about the talk doing a podcast, yeah, And that's really I think that the kind of foundation of this podcast because we would always be like, you know what, we after thirty minutes of arguing, we'd be like, as a as a bit, yes, you know what, guys, let's save it for the pod.

Yeah.

That's how we became friends and made this podcast.

And stop fucking asking.

Yeah, I'm not gonna talk about that chapter of my life anymore.

That was a dark times.

Thanks for listening to No such thing.

Produced by Many, Noah and Devin.

The theme songs are produced by Me Many This is a production of Kaleidoscope Content, Executive produced by Mangesh Hatzi Cadur and Kate Osborne.

Thank you so much to everyone who's sent in questions for this mailback episode.

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He's hells a Hell's

As such things