Kayla: In 1962, a little boy in Pittsburgh named William turned eight years old.

As a member of a Presbyterian family.

Subjects such as God and the afterlife were fairly common topics that popped up.

And William, of course, had some questions, particularly questions about death.

His mother explained to him that dying was a part of life for everyone, that everyone eventually dies.

And to little William, that immediately felt wrong.

He thought to himself, no way is that happening to me.

I'll find a way around it.

A few years later, at 13, this discomfort with death and determination to beat it still occupied William's mind.

He wrote a news article about Robert Ettinger, the father of cryonics, and swiftly became interested.

Kayla: And just two years after that, at 15 years old, William learned about Alcor Life Extension foundation and took a life insurance policy out on himself so that he could be put into cryostasis upon death.

But still, this wasn't enough.

Cryonics doesn't prevent disease, aging, and dying.

In fact, it requires patients to die in order to be preserved.

William wanted more.

According to him, I was determined to find a way to conquer death.

And the rest of William's life was thusly dedicated to doing just that.

Meet Bill Falloon and enter the life extension foundation.

And, of course, the church of perpetual life.

Welcome back to culture just weird.

I'm Kayla.

I'm a television writer.

Chris: I'm Chris, and I make games.

Kayla: Thank you for joining us yet again as we deep dive into groups that might be cults or might be just weirds.

If you'd like to talk to us more about the show, you can find us on discord, which is linked in the show notes.

And if you'd like to support us, you can find us@patreon.com.

Culturjisweirdheendeh.

Chris: I could also use some moral support.

I guess that's what this discord's for.

Kayla: Discord is just like for stroking my ego.

No, it's not.

There's some interesting conversations going on in there.

Chris: As always, our marriage is for stroking your ego.

This podcast is stroking your ego.

Kayla: Do you have any business before we jump into today's topic?

Chris: No, I don't have money for business, so I can't have business.

Kayla: Can't have business.

Let's do business.

Last week on culture just weird, we introduced the Church of Perpetual Life, a literal church that acts as a place where life extension enthusiasts can find fellowship together in their faith that a death optional transhuman reality will one day be.

Chris: Now, in your little story that you said to kick us off today, yes, you said what was the guy's name?

Bill.

Yes, Tim.

Bill.

Kayla: I started with little William Little will Falloon, who we're talking about today.

Chris: And you said that he wanted to defeat death.

Kayla: Yes.

Chris: Okay.

So what you need to do for that is you need to challenge death to a game of Twister.

Kayla: I thought it was chess.

Chris: Chess is 7th seal, I think.

Then in Bill and Tez Boga's journey, which is what I'm referencing here, they play, I think, risk.

Twister, maybe.

Sorry, Scrabble.

I'm not sure.

But if you challenge him to enough games, eventually, and I mean, you have to win each time.

Kayla: Okay, so, Bill Falun, if you're listening, stop doing what you're doing.

Chris: Yeah.

Kayla: Go buy a box of Twister and get to it.

Chris: Yeah, yeah.

And if you do that, actually, there's even more benefits because he might join your band.

So.

Kayla: Yeah.

Isn't the death in Bill and Ted, like, kind of looks similar to the death in the 7th seal?

Chris: I think he kind of does.

They're like the same character, like this sort of, like, dire, pale look, robe.

Extremely funny.

Kayla: Yeah.

Okay, we're not talking about Bill and Ted this week, unfortunately.

This week we're going to talk more deeply about the founder of the Church of perpetual life, as mentioned, Bill Falloon, as he is an endlessly interesting figure.

For some examples, it's rumored he wears an asbestos lined helmet while on flights in case there's a crash and his brain can be protected and then preserved.

And then asbestos lined, I think so.

Chris: I guess that's to prevent fire.

I mean, damage.

Kayla: Like, I think there's asbestos in, like, firefighter suits.

Chris: Yeah.

Yeah.

Kayla: That's why you don't want to, like, cut them.

Chris: Right.

And I.

Yeah.

Kayla: So asbestos head doesn't explode and burn.

Chris: Why they initially put them in, like, walls and ceilings and stuff.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Kayla: He went to school for mortuary science and still holds a license as a funeral director and embalmer.

Chris: That is a very interesting thing for him to do, given.

That is interesting.

Kayla: We will talk about that a little bit more.

He endorsed drugs like metformin, melatonin, and even aspirin specifically for its cardiovascular protective effects before the american scientific mainstream.

And those are just the highlights.

As mentioned, Bill.

Chris: So he was, like, right about wellness stuff.

Is that kind of what I'm getting here?

A little bit.

Kayla: I don't want to say that Bill Falloon has always been right about everything that he's predicted would be helpful to human health.

However, there are a number of examples in which Bill Falloon went, hello.

I have read the research.

I see what other countries are doing.

A drug like metformin was available to the public in places like Canada and the UK before it was approved by the FDA here.

I think metformin is good for everybody.

You should take metformin.

Or he was up on the research on melatonin before that went mainstream.

And the same with things like aspirin, metformin here.

Chris: Okay, so I just want.

We'll talk about, like, what metformin is.

Kayla: Yes.

Chris: Okay.

Kayla: Yeah.

If you don't.

For our non diabetic patients, as mentioned.

Chris: Sorry, our non diabetic patients.

Kayla: We are not practicing medicine on this show.

I will say that there is no medical practitioners here.

Chris: You have to have patients listen to the podcast, though.

Kayla: Consult your doctor if you want to take metformin.

As mentioned, Bill Falloon learned about the finality of death at eight years old and dedicated his life to overcoming its reality.

Cryonics was kind of his first step on that path.

And after signing up with Alcor, he went on to enroll in a program at the Pittsburgh Institute of Mortuary Science in order to learn techniques that would allow him to, he thought, cryo preserve people.

Like, he was like, if I can be a good embalmer, that'll help me be a good cryo preserver.

Chris: Okay, all right.

I'm getting that.

Kayla: When he was 20 years old, he moved to Florida to help found the Neptune Society, which is a national provider of cremation services.

And I think it is, like, ironically, on brand for someone that is admittedly disturbed by death to then go into a line of work that forces him to confront the reality of death on the daily.

And the finality of death on the daily.

Cremating a body is very final.

Chris: Yeah, yeah.

It's about as final as it gets.

I wonder if he counsels his clients, assuming that you have to set up something with him ahead of time.

I guess he probably has clients that are like, my parents died.

Can you cremate them?

But I wonder if he counsels them to be like, hey, have you considered maybe cryonics instead of cremation?

Kayla: I know very little about Bill Falloon's current state of what level of practicing he does with his licensing.

I don't know if he's still acting as a funeral director cremator.

I just know that he's still licensed or he was up until very recently.

But, yeah, I don't know if he.

I don't know.

That's a very good question.

If he was ever counseling people to consider something like cryopreservation as an alternative to burial or cremation?

Probably not.

But I don't know.

Chris: Who knows?

I don't know.

It's an interesting thought.

Kayla: The move to Florida didn't just result in the Neptune society.

He soon linked up with other cryonics enthusiasts.

I met a man named Saul Kent, whose passion for life extension and beating death matched bill's own.

The two went on to found the Florida Cryonics association in 1977, a charity with the intent of funding cryonics research.

Chris: Kayla, I have a question.

Kayla: Yes?

Chris: So far, the two states that we've talked about for cryonics related activities have been Florida and Arizona.

Kayla: Yeah.

Chris: Like, the two hottest places in the whole country.

What the hell?

Kayla: This is hot, too.

Chris: Sort of.

Explain that with Phoenix.

But I don't know.

It's just weird to me that, like, the second state that we're talking about for freezing people is Florida.

It's just weird.

Kayla: For what it's worth, I don't think that there's much, like, actual cryopreserving going on in Florida.

Chris: Yeah.

Yeah.

Kayla: It's not like places that are doing cryopreserving need to be, like, safe from natural disasters.

Chris: And Florida is, like, Florida is not.

Kayla: The least safe state for natural disasters.

Chris: Well, behind California.

Kayla: No, I think Florida's worse.

Chris: Really?

Just from the hurricanes alone?

Kayla: No, from, like, it's going to be underwater in ten years.

Oh, like, Florida's not a good place for long term storage.

Chris: Right.

Okay.

Okay.

Gotta go to the top of Mount Everest for that.

Kayla: Yeah, exactly.

Chris: Don't get water worlded kids.

Kayla: Don't get you.

The last place you want to be if you are cryopreserved is at the bottom of waterworld.

Three years after the two men founded the Florida Cryonics association, they received a $100,000 donation from a real estate magnate, Steven ruddle.

And the two decided to step up their game.

It was no longer about just sending monthly subscription newsletters about, you know, life extension and seeking donations.

It was time for them to start selling and manufacturing vitamins and supplements the organization believed could aid in life extension.

So selling these products became another way to fund cryonics and life extension research.

Chris: I just don't know about people selling pills, Mandy.

The supplement industry just immediately raises a flag for me.

Kayla: I know, I know.

And also, I think it's possible.

I think it's possible that billfalune has good intentions and not grifty intentions.

I think it's possible, and I think it's more possible than other places I've seen.

And also, as we talked about last week, I do think there are a lot of people coming in being like, hello, buy my pill.

It's gonna make you live forever.

And also, we're gonna talk about it more later.

But, like, there is cutting edge research that proves to be somewhat true or somewhat efficacious.

That is, like, picked up by Bill, flung in the church of perpetual life before it's picked up by the mainstream, which is not inherently a good thing.

Chris: Yeah, I mean, I don't doubt that he seems like a true believer.

I don't necessarily think that lowers the yellow flag.

Certainly his flag is less red than, you know, Alex Jones, like, testosterone boosting, whatever pill.

But it's still, I don't know, just, it's a little weird.

I get it, though.

It's like, it's part, like, if you think that is really what's happening, like, if you're like, okay, if I take this pill, I'm gonna live longer, then you might consider selling it to people.

I guess that's not out of the question and also not necessarily a grift.

Kayla: There's a little bit of a difference between, I'm Alex Jones, I'm going to sell supplements on my show, and then my show is worth a billion dollars, and I'm Bill Falloon, I'm going to sell supplements to help fund cryonics research.

And you can kind of track the money.

And it does seem like quite a bit of that.

Like millions and millions.

Again, spoiler alert for later.

Millions and millions of dollars is going into cryonics research.

Okay, hold some of those thoughts held.

We're gonna have these conversations.

Why would I give you the interesting conversations up front?

We have to have context.

Chris: That would not be good for our show.

Like, our show doesn't do that.

Kayla: In 1982, another windfall.

Merv Griffin wanted to do an episode of his talk show on aging research and asked Bill Falloon to appear one of the most watched shows of the era.

There were like four channels on at the time.

Millions of viewers were exposed to the Florida Cryonics association, and according to Falloon, upwards of 10,000 people immediately wrote in asking how to get involved.

Chris: Interesting.

Kayla: Bill Falloon and Kent continued and expanded their supplement manufacturing and selling business.

Anytime new research came out about the possible anti aging effects of something, they'd head over to the health food store and try to source it.

And if they couldn't source it there, then they'd look for it overseas.

Or eventually manufacture it themselves.

Steven Ruddle, that real estate magnate and cryonics enthusiast who gave them that $100,000 donation, he also expanded his help, and he set the Florida Cryonics association up in his office building.

So they opened a supplement storefront.

I think it was on the first floor, then on the second floor, there was, like, a small museum with cryonics memorabilia.

Third floor was a cryonics lab, and then fourth floor was an experimentation lab, where they actually were carrying out animal experiments, working on things like connections between diet and lifespan.

Kayla: And where was visual work?

Chris: The magnet, was that at the place with all the iron filings, or do.

Kayla: I need to be saying tycoon instead of magnate?

It's the same word.

I looked them up in the media.

That's fine.

Chris: No, Magnet's fine.

Kayla: And then I think his office.

The magnet's office was like the floor above.

Chris: Okay, so it was just like, holding everything up.

Kayla: Yeah.

Over the next few years, the activities of Florida Cryonics association, which was operating in some, as many vitamin and supplement selling companies do, legally questionable ways, earned the attention of local police and beyond.

In 1986, a SWAT team raided Steven Ruddle's office on the top floor of the building, and cocaine was found.

And Ruddle eventually pled guilty to drug possession and possibly also dealing charges.

Chris: Okay, so is cocaine a life extending drug, then?

Should I be taking cocaine along with my metformin?

Kayla: It's a cocktail of cocaine, metformin, resveratrol, and methamphetamine.

Chris: Okay.

Okay.

So I just gotta do the Rolling Stones thing.

Kayla: I think the cocaine may have been separate from the life extension supplements.

Chris: Oh, okay.

Kayla: The Florida Chronics association suspected that this was, like, an attempt to deter them from what they were doing.

Like, kind of like an intimidation tactic.

Like, we're getting your boss, we're gonna get you.

Chris: Why would somebody want to deter you from extending people's lives?

Like, what's.

Kayla: Hold that thought.

They continued what they were doing until six months later, Bill Fallon received a call from an employee claiming marshals are kicking in the door.

Turns out the FDA was there, raiding the company's office, warehouse, research labs, and even the museum.

The FDA charged them with selling unapproved drugs to buyers.

Also claimed that Bill Flun and Saul Kent were using fake names to illegally import unapproved drugs into the country to sell.

That's what I mean by operating in, like, illegally gray, legally gray areas.

Chris: Better call Saul Kent.

Kayla: As they awaited grand rape proceedings, the FDA conducted another raid in 1991, this time at the company's Arizona facility, because, yeah, if you're gonna be in Florida, also be in Arizona.

They were charged with more than 24 counts of conspiring, importing, and disguising unapproved drugs as supplements and then selling them.

Falloon and Kent turned themselves in because these were, like, you know, arrest warrants or whatever, and landed in jail.

Side note, this actually happened on Bill Fallon's birthday, he says, which he was happy about, because usually for him, his birthday was, like, shitty.

One year closer to death.

People are like, happy birthday.

Happy birthday.

And he's like, it's not very happy for me.

And this time he was like, ooh, I'm getting to have some fun.

I know it is.

I know it is.

Chris: At least this time he got excitement out of it.

Kayla: He got something fun.

Yeah, the two.

Cause, you know, he very much believed in what he was doing.

And the two were bailed out the next day.

So it wasn't like they were rotting in jail.

Chris: Yeah, they got white people jail.

Kayla: Yeah.

I think their bail was like $825,000.

Chris: Oh, my God.

That's actually a lot of money.

Holy shit.

Kayla: For each?

Chris: I think so.

Does ACAB include the FDA?

Kayla: That's going to be part of a larger conversation that we are going to have.

Chris: Kayla, what you're supposed to say is, we'll get to that.

Kayla: We'll get to that.

The case continued to drag on for five years, allegedly because the feds couldn't find any witnesses willing to testify that the drugs purchased from the Florida Chronics association caused them any harm.

And, in fact, many customers were angry at the FDA for doing what looked like trying to deny life saving medications to people rather than working on approving them.

Chris: So Bill Falloon and company were witness intimidating is what I'm hearing.

Kayla: I don't think that is what you should be.

Chris: Nobody wanted to testify against the life extension mob.

Kayla: Yeah, I mean, that is definitely one read.

My read was like, everybody was so happy with what they were getting, but maybe it's like, oh, I'm so scared.

I don't.

Chris: He was the best guy around.

Kayla: I've read nothing to make me think that.

That was the vibe.

In 1995 and then 1996, a federal judge dismissed all criminal charges filed against Bill Falloon and Salty Kent.

And during this process, the company, Florida Cronics association, worked on the Dietary Supplement Health and Education act of 1994, which Congress passed in 1994.

And this meant that with charges now dropped, Bill Fallon could actually expand his operation.

The DShea, I think, is what it's referred to, I think, ultimately made it easier to sell supplements in this country.

Chris: I think I remember hearing about that one of those, the dream seasons, probably.

It seems to me that was like a floodgate opening.

Kayla: Yeah.

Chris: Or maybe it was a Michael Hobbs joint.

I don't know, one of those.

I feel like I remember Congress doing something in the nineties that opened those floodgates.

Kayla: Yeah.

That paved the way for the Alex Joneses of the world and the doctor drew's.

Even though the company took a huge financial hit, obviously with legal fees, the publicity from the court cases brought many, many more clients because, of course.

Chris: No such thing as bat pub, man.

Yeah.

Kayla: The pair decided to found a for profit buyer's club for their company, basically.

So up until this point, it's been a nonprofit.

They're like, we got to have something for profit.

So basically this was a service that clients could buy into which monthly fees gained them access to the company's magazine and discounts on the supplements purchased through the company.

So it was kind of like a subscription service almost, that, like, let you buy the stuff from the nonprofit at a cheaper price.

Chris: And could you use the magnet if you were subscribed?

Kayla: The magnet's gone.

There's no more magnet.

Chris: Did it get attracted to another magnet somewhere?

And.

Oh, man.

Kayla: And in 2000, the company changed its name from Florida Cryonics association to the Life Extension foundation and the Buyers Club to Life Extension Buyers club.

And this is where I had to pause and run to our medicine cabinet because that name sounded so familiar to me.

Chris: And, yeah, it sounds familiar to me, too.

Kayla: Turns out we have purchased products from Life Extension Foundation a number of times.

Chris: Oh, shit.

So am I going to live forever?

Is it my metformin?

Kayla: The inc lozenges we use to, like, maybe help prevent, like, cold and COVID infections and to treat cold when we get the cold?

Yeah, those are.

Those are life extension foundation incs.

Chris: And you can, the ones that are like the big horse pill, like the.

Kayla: Size of the coke can, like, huge inc that take forever to dissolve in your mouth.

Yeah, you can thank Bill Falloon for that.

Chris: Thanks, Bill Falloon.

Those things are disgusting.

Kayla: They're nasty as hell.

But I think they've helped maybe.

Since those early days of FDA raids and arrests, the Life Extension foundation, now renamed again the Biomedical Research and Longevity Society, has grown exponentially.

From Wikipedia, quote.

In a 2006 tax filing, the company declared assets of over $25 million and netted more than $3 million on revenue of more than 18 million that year.

And according to an article in the Miami New Times, the funds from the Life Extension Buyers Club.

110 million since 1996.

According to the life extensions, court documents were used to fund dozens of projects.

Like what projects exactly?

Some research projects on sleep patterns in rats, research projects into de aging worms, human trials on a drug called enbrel, and whether it can reverse Alzheimer's.

Chris: Are we just worried that if we live a long time, the worms will die out before we do?

Kayla: We need to have some worm and rat friends around.

Chris: Right?

Okay.

Kayla: Research into stem cells.

Many millions went to a nonprofit called stasis, who works on a project called the Time Ship, which intends to be a structure that can withstand any catastrophe and will store cryopreserved patients, as well as an organ bank and like DNA of various extinct organisms.

Many millions also went into research into vitrification processes, such as rabbit kidneys and doing that rabbit kidney transplant that we talked about and the effects on dogs brains and bodies.

And this is just to name a few.

Bill Flune claims that most of the money made by his companies goes to life extension in crop reservation research.

And while, yes, he has a home he purchased for $1.2 million, he also.

Chris: $1.2 million these days, is like a hovel.

Kayla: Yeah.

He also has no inheritance.

He claims he has no inheritance set aside for his children.

Like, anything that he leaves behind, though hopefully not, will be donated to research.

According to him, quote, how could I enjoy a yacht if I know we're all going to die and disappear?

As far as I know, he doesn't have a yacht.

Chris: Yeah, I kind of don't begrudge these folks.

I think maybe you mentioned this last episode, or maybe it was just in the.

One of the things that we watch together, but how a lot of these folks that are in the church of perpetual life don't intend to have an inheritance or leave an inheritance to their children or their grandchildren, which is not what our society, I think, normally would encourage.

But I kind of feel like it's.

I don't know.

It's consistent with their beliefs.

I don't hate it, actually.

Kayla: I don't think there's anything wrong with leaving a financial legacy for your children.

And I also don't think there's anything wrong with not.

Chris: Yeah, yeah.

Kayla: Particularly.

Particularly if you're not just like, I'm gonna fucking buy a yacht, and, like, waste all this money, and you're funding life extension technologies that you think can, like, actually help your children.

I see a difference in that than, like, fucking bill gates being like, I'm not gonna give any money to my children.

And, like, somehow getting richer and richer.

Chris: And richer and richer every year.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And now that I think about it, like, I guess I don't need.

I wouldn't even begrudge parents that don't intend to live forever.

Like, if they just were like, yeah, we're gonna spend all of our money.

Like, that's, you know, it's your money.

Like, you don't.

Kayla: It is.

Chris: And I just, like, I think about my parents, like, if they spent all of their savings on, you know, enjoying the twilight years or whatever and going on vacations, like, I would be cool with that.

Kayla: Like, what if they bought a yacht, though?

Chris: Do I get to use it?

No, if they buy a yacht.

But if they buy a yacht, and they better fucking leave me the yacht.

If they spend it on.

If they spend it on experience, they're.

Kayla: Gonna buy the yacht and then they're gonna donate the yacht to NPR.

Chris: All right, I need to give this some more thought.

Kayla: I think as long as the yacht's involved, it's wrong.

Any yacht.

Incorrect.

Chris: Both sides wrong.

Kayla: No yacht.

No yacht.

Chris: Anti yacht.

Also wrong.

Everything involving a yacht.

Kayla: I'm nil.

Yacht.

Chris: Just wrong.

Kayla: No yacht at all.

Existing or not existing.

Chris: Right?

Right.

The negation of yacht.

Right?

Yeah.

Kayla: Rock, I'm gonna give you some more context here.

Might change a little something for you.

I don't know.

Chris: Oh, God.

In which direction?

Kayla: I don't know.

I don't know.

Chris: Oh, boy.

Kayla: In 2013, however, Falloon's legal troubles came back around.

Chris: Okay.

Kayla: The IR's revoked the Life Extension Foundation's tax exempt status.

I think they revoked it back to 2006, claiming that its operations were too entwined with the for profit life extension buyer's club to be a non profit.

Chris: Okay.

Kayla: And, like, Falloon and Kent fought the revocation, but they were unsuccessful.

They were able to, like.

Chris: Okay.

Kayla: To get rid of the backdated part.

So it was just like they were revoked in 2013, not 2006, and that's.

Chris: Why they started a religion.

Kayla: Do you remember what else happened in 2013?

Chris: Yeah.

That's when they started the Church of perpetual.

Kayla: A little non profit, tax exempt organization called the Church of Perpetual Life was founded.

Okay, I'll just leave that there.

Chris: Yeah.

Scuzzy and whatnot.

Kayla: I don't know.

It looks scuzzy, but I can talk myself out of it.

Chris: Sure.

I can talk myself out of it, too, and I'm about to.

The problem isn't them.

The problem is that we should be taxing churches.

Kayla: Yup.

You shouldn't be able to just, like, make a church and not pay taxes?

Chris: Yeah.

It's like, oh, shit, I don't want to pay taxes anymore.

I'm a church now.

Like, okay, no, that should not be allowed.

Kayla: And also, like, it makes me.

This is, like, a totally, like, I don't know.

Is this a meta reason?

Is this not even a good reason?

But then I'm like, well, now I have to question the intention of what this church is doing, which before last week, I was like, I think what this church is doing is cool.

I think it's providing fellowship and blah, blah.

Can a place be doing something good while also being kind of shady?

Chris: I mean, at the very least of our show.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

At the very least, it kind of sours the milk a little bit, because.

Yeah, I had the same sort of impression of, like, oh, you know, it's neat that they have the trappings of religion.

Like, why nothing know?

Like, religion doesn't have to be a monopoly of, like, deity type stuff with Jesus and all those guys.

It can be somebody singing.

Who were they singing?

Forever young.

People singing forever young.

And I don't know, but now it is like, oh, but I think that was just for tax.

Kayla: I also.

I don't have any, like, proof of that.

I only have the circumstantial evidence that one nonprofit was closed or not closed.

Chris: You have some pretty clear cut time series data.

Kayla: Had the status revoked in 2013, and then in 2013, a new nonprofit was founded.

Chris: Yeah.

Kayla: And.

And this nonprofit we have seen oftentimes uses the platform as a place to, like, advertise.

Chris: Yeah.

Kayla: Pills and stuff.

Chris: I guess it could be one of those things, too, though, like, where it was started for those reasons, but then it kind of, like, grew into something real.

Kind of like those, like, you know, those teenage rom coms or whatever, where it's like, I am gonna pay you to date me.

Most popular girl in school, even though I don't like you, but it's just gonna make me more popular.

But then they end up falling in love.

Of course, they have to go through a journey first, where the guy gets popular and then doesn't like the girl anymore, and then realizes that he actually just liked her as a person all along.

Maybe that's what happened here.

Kayla: Maybe that's what happened here.

I don't know.

And I will.

I do want to be clear that, like, not every sermon or service or whatever at the church of perpetual life is about buying pills like the one went to had.

Absolutely.

Chris: Some of it's about cocaine.

Kayla: Some of it's about cocaine and how that's you need to add that to your system.

No, the one went to had absolutely nothing to do with selling vitamins and supplements.

It was showcasing video games that a life extension enthusiast had helped produce that were about gamifying the experience of life extension.

Nothing to do with selling pills.

Chris: Yeah.

When you talk about it that way, the vibe that I got from the actual thing that we attended was not super grifty.

It seemed pretty ground up to me.

Kayla: But we also did not attend a service in which Bill Falloon was speaking and presenting, which he does often.

But I also, I don't think that he's oftentimes going like, buy my pill, buy my pill.

I think most of the time he's talking about updates and age reversal, but then that gets into, like, here's the new supplements that we think are good.

I think that there's more to talk about.

I think that Bill Fallon is a true believer, and I think that he's taking steps that somebody who wants to help others is taking.

And at the same time, those are the exact same steps that a grifter would take.

And I do.

Chris: This is the age old question, Kayla.

Are they a true reliever?

We've been asking that question since teal Swan, since season one of the show.

Kayla: I think I'm one of the most convinced on him that he is a true believer, and that he is trying to do something that he thinks is good.

Part of it is because, and granted, this is the mythos, and they always have a mythology about themselves, but I do believe that this person has been on this track since they were eight years old.

Chris: Yeah, you're right.

That is totally a mythology story.

I didn't pick that up at the time.

But you're right.

Kayla: But I believe it.

Chris: Yeah.

Did he chop down a cherry tree, too?

Kayla: And you cannot tell a lie.

And I could be naive, but I also think that there's a lot to be said for the amount of money that's been donated to these projects and has been donated to research.

Chris: I'm with you, man.

I don't know.

My brain feels entirely within the gray area.

Kayla: Some claim that Bill Falloon is one of the most important people in cryonics and that he's single handedly done more for the research and advances than any other individual.

And some people claim that Bill Falloon is a grifter who's, like, showing pills.

I also want to point out that Falloon and the Life Extension foundation, which still operates today and has specific protocols and recommendations for anyone looking to extend their life.

The foundation has been pioneers when it comes to medications now embraced by the mainstream.

So again, we mentioned, like, metformin, aspirin, melatonin.

We'll get into that right now.

So, like, Falloon was ahead of the curve on metformin, a drug that is now essentially the first line of defense for people with diabetes, particularly, I think, type two diabetes and prediabetes.

And it has some promising research demonstrating its, like, potential anti aging properties.

Chris: It's a glucophage.

It eats the glucose in your sugar.

Kayla: And like I said, it eats the glucose in your sugar.

Chris: It eats the glucose in your blood.

Kayla: Good.

I want a picture like a little pill just going through your bloodstream.

Chris: I think that's what it looks like.

Yeah, it's like a little Pac man.

Kayla: And like I mentioned, you know, this drug came about, I think, in like the fifties, and it was approved to sell in other countries way before.

Chris: Wait, Metformin has been around since the fifties.

Kayla: It wasn't approved to sell here until much, much later because typically the FDA does have a very lengthy process, like a 20 plus year process.

Chris: Sometimes, which is there for our safety.

Kayla: We're going to.

Spoiler alert.

There's another episode coming about the church of professional life and all this stuff.

And we're going to talk more about getting into the specifics and this conversation on the FDA and that difficulty of.

Okay, but they're doing a good thing because they're protecting us, but also they're doing a bad thing because they're preventing life saving medication from getting to people.

What do, what do.

Chris: That sounds completely answerable by us.

Kayla: I don't think it is.

Bill Flune was also one of the first groups, or the Life Extension foundation, whatever you want to refer to it.

They were one of the first people to support and sell melatonin.

Like melatonin research started coming out in the nineties and they were like, isn't that the sleep?

Cool, let's go.

Yes.

But I think that there's also other properties.

So they don't just sell life extending things like you and I take that inc for.

Chris: Oh, yeah, that's not, I don't know.

Kayla: If they say it has life extending properties, but it's about like, aging and illness and disease and health.

Chris: Okay.

Kayla: Sleep is very important to health.

Chris: Okay.

Kayla: And I think they think it's very important to life extension and anti aging.

Chris: So melatonin.

So it's not specifically maybe anti aging.

But if it contributes to a significant pillar of your health.

Kayla: Right.

Chris: I, then they're going to be into it.

Kayla: They have like a whole.

I'll link an interview with Bill Falloon.

He explains his whole, like, if somebody comes to them and is like, hello, I want to do something right now for my health.

They have a whole kind of, like, really first line protocol of, like, the first thing is get on metformin.

Chris: Really?

Kayla: It's metformin.

It's nad.

And there's a couple other things that they're like, here's what you can do kind of right away.

Chris: Interesting.

I think it's cool they have that.

I'm surprised.

Metformin's number one.

Kayla: And they also recommend, like, Bill Fallon is very, he thinks that this is one of the most important things you can do.

You have to get a blood work baseline from a doctor before you do any of these things.

Chris: Oh, okay.

Kayla: Because they cannot.

He's like, we cannot tell if any of these drugs are helping you in the anti aging disease reversal, whatever.

If you do not get that baseline, the information is lost.

If we.

Chris: So do they have markers that they can say, like, if this number goes up after you take metformin, then you're gonna live longer or whatever?

Kayla: I think it's more nuanced than that, but essentially, yes.

Chris: Okay.

Kayla: And they say, like, it's very, he, I listened to this interview, and he stressed so much that, like, it is a tragedy when people enter into anti aging, like, medications and do not get that baseline.

And also, it can't, if you don't have that baseline, it can't be as tailored.

Chris: Right.

And you said he also recommends that people eat his nads.

Kayla: Nad is a big.

Yeah, I need to pro health, anti aging pill.

I've taken it before.

Get the fuck out of my podcast.

Chris: Sorry.

Are you gonna keep that?

Kayla: I don't know.

I'm gonna continue reading now, and you're gonna be nice.

Chris: Are you gonna tell me what the drug does?

Kayla: I have no idea.

Oh, it's, I don't know.

Chris: Back in the real world, I have actually heard of it before being like, a thing.

Anti aging space.

Kayla: Yeah.

As mentioned, they were ahead of the curve on aspirin's productive cardiovascular effects.

That's something else that I take daily.

And they were also some of the first to adopt Dhea and coq ten, which we also both know about.

Chris: I used to take aspirin daily.

I stopped because I think it was like I was taking a regular dose.

And I think you're supposed to take, I take a baby smaller dose because otherwise it can like be bad for you, irritate your digestive tract.

I think.

Just, just don't.

Like, maybe this should be a blanket statement for this episode, but don't take.

Kayla: Any pills just because we're talking about.

Chris: Do not be like, yeah, don't go and be like, I gotta take aspirin every day because they say, listen to.

Kayla: Bill Falloon, go get your baseline, go talk to your doctor.

Chris: Yeah, talk to your doctor.

Kayla: But yeah, I take a baby aspirin and then I've taken coq ten and I have taken dhea mm mmdh.

They pay close, close attention to the research being done in these arenas and they have a wide network of customers and like minded thinkers who also keep a close eye on their research.

Again, in the interview I watched, he said, quote, we garner a lot of information from people who simply don't want to die.

And that again, made me go like, oh, yeah, terror management theory and all of that.

Like, I think it's good that they're not shying away from the fact that a lot of what they're doing is motivated by a fear of death or being disturbed by death or not wanting to die.

And they're very upfront about that.

Chris: Okay, so they're like, a lot of.

Kayla: Times they're like the people who are in this right now who are like over 50, like we're running out of time.

They'll literally say we're running out of time.

They are acknowledging that this is a big thing.

Chris: Acknowledging that this is like that they are afraid.

It's not like we're not afraid of it, we just don't like it.

I think that's good, actually.

Kayla: Yeah, I think it's good.

One of the more interesting side details of this whole story is that amongst the various companies and organizations and nonprofits and churches that Boafloon has founded or contributed to over the years, theres one that stood out to me among the rest, and that would be the FDA Holocaust museum.

Chris: I dont like the name of that at all.

Kayla: Next week on culture.

Just weird.

Were going to get deeper into Bill Falloons relationship with the FDA, what this museum is all about, and a movement that all brushes up against this known as the health freedom movement.

Chris: Okay, all of that sounds really sus to me.

And I also really don't like the usage of that word.

But, you know, I'm looking forward to next week's show.

Kayla: We'll get to that.

Chris: Yeah, this is Kayla, this is Chris, and this has been cult or just a really long life.

No cult or just supplement cult or just FDA.