You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts.

Tenacity is a talent because I never felt like I was super talented at anything, because I never had one skill that I can lean on.

I couldn't sing, didn't have a great voice, wasn't super funny.

I started to realize that being tenacious and not stopping being tenacious, that's a real talent.

I am Bob Pittman, and welcome to this episode of Math and Magic.

Today we're exploring the power of audio and the power of those hosts on the radio and podcasts who hundreds of millions of Americans call their friends.

Our guest today is Bobby Bones, known the millions and millions for his morning show on country radio, and also for his stints as a mentor on American Idol, host of Breaking Bobby Bones on the National Geographic Channel, and a past winner of Dancing with the Stars.

He's also authored two New York Times bestsellers, and it has the wildly successful podcast Bobby Cast and the Nashville Podcast Network.

Bobby was born and raised in small town Arkansas, Mountain Pine, in what he has described as extreme poverty.

He literally had no bed for himself until he finally got to college.

He has had a life of driving to make his life a success.

He's going to share some of those stories and insights and more.

Bobby, welcome, Thank you for having me, Bob.

This is awesome.

Listen before we get into the meaty stuff, I want to do you in sixty seconds.

You ready this?

There?

Do you prefer cats or dogs?

Dogs?

Early Riser night Out?

I'm an Early Riser, but I hate it.

Nashville or la oh, Nashville by far, City or Country.

I'm going to surprise you and go city on this Coker PEPSI.

I'm going to go coke, rock and roll er country.

What's the difference?

You know, they're basically the same.

But I'll go Country, Coffee or tea.

I'll go tea.

As long as it's.

Podcast or streaming TV out podcast by far, call her, text, don't call me, just text.

All time favorite musical artist Counting Crows.

First job doing maintenance on a golf course.

Favorite TV show of all time, The Office, childhood hero David Letterman.

Favored sport to watch college football, Arkansas Razorbacks.

Most important piece of advice you ever got, just keep pushing regardless.

Favorite city Oh you'll give me in trouble here.

I'm gonna go Fabel.

Arkansas Final one secret talent.

I can juggle really well.

I can do turns and throws and it's awesome.

Okay, let's jump in.

Country music is on a real up swing in America, comes up and down sometimes.

It is, by the way, the biggest music format on the radio.

What's going on?

Why?

I think because one the music sonically has opened itself up a bit.

And the one thing about country music is it's always progressing.

And the other thing is there's always a group going that's not country.

And so as long as country music has existed, you've had people saying, well, that's not real country.

I think you've had a couple transcendent artists as well.

So it doesn't hurt when you have big stars.

And so guys like Morgan Waller and Luke Combs and Zach Bryan and then the guys like Chesney and Garth the Stadio Max are really ruling country music.

And the fact that some of them are so young makes it cool.

You know, you're talking about people saying that's not country.

But the history of country music, country radio especially is the oldies always seem to be from rock in the seventies.

The oldies were not Hank Williams.

The old ones were Elvis Presley, the Eagles or whatever.

Why does over the years country music attract the former rock and roll audience?

What makes them switch and how does that work?

I think the format itself is very traditional in nature.

However, I think the format also at times will attempt to hold itself back, if not for real pioneer type artists.

I mean, when you look at country music just in general, from the beginning of the format itself, at the genre you're talking about, the music was created by slaves coming over on the slave ship and Europeans coming over, and that's where you get the banjo on the fiddle.

And the fact to where they live geographically is the roots.

Of country music.

And so when people will hear a song and go, well, that's not country, you know, my response often is, well, nothing is unless you go back to the very beginning.

You can look at any of the artists like Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys.

The first time they amp to steal guitar, it was like Dylan going electric, Like people flipped out, and that has happened over and over again.

Garth Brooks doing concerts, touring like a rock star.

You have people put in eight to eights in songs now, and I think what's happening is when you're young, you like the edgy music, and then what happens is that edgy type music isn't so edgy anymore, and what was the rock back in the time really has settled into what is now country music ten fifteen, twenty years later.

So let's talk a little bit about the country music community.

You touched on it, about who these people are, how are they different from other audiences.

They are far more loyal to the artist than any other format.

Country music.

From before I got in it until today, there were artists that I love and it did not matter what they put out.

I loved it.

When I worked in pop, you could have a song and go away forever.

That almost never happens in country music even today.

So once you establish who you are and you build a fan base, they don't go anywhere.

And I think that's really like a lot of people in this country like, if you can actually prove your worth and there's a reason to like you, and you're not going to really change fundamentally who you are, like, we're gonna.

Roll with you.

We're real loyalists to folks, and I think that's what this format is really known for, and I think it's why it thrives.

You know, you started in top forty pop hits and you moved the country radio.

Why.

I think I wanted to talk to the most people.

That's the selfish answer.

But when it comes to where did I even fit, Like how I sound, I mean, I talk like a guy from and I want to say Middle America, probably a little south of Middle America.

Like I talked like a guy from Southeast America.

And so when I was doing pop, I had Willie Nelson on and Derek spentleyon and I had all these country acts.

And what was funny was the word on the street then was he's too country for pop.

But then once I got the country, it was he's too pop for country.

So I kind of never really had a place to fit in.

But that's exactly how and why I fit, because nobody really fits anywhere.

And the fact that I just embraced that, like, yeah, I don't fit into one specific hole.

I think that is what endeared me to listeners.

I hope.

I hope it still does.

But that's why I'm here now, because I talk to people that grew up like me, have sensibilities like me, and have loyalties like me.

So how has Nashville managed to hang on to its dominance in the country scene.

And invests a lot of money?

I mean, it is a industry.

It's billions and billions of dollars, and you know where it's an art and it's fun and it makes you happy and sad.

It is also a cutthroat business.

It just reminds me of sports, right, Like I have my favorite teams and I love them.

But behind the guys playing on the field for nine innings getting dirty, that there are people making really difficult decisions, and there are people that are paid a lot to judge and gauge talent and scout talent.

I think Nashville is really prioritized one investing in technology and also investing in really great people to live here and cultivate the music.

And you often see a lot of the producers from Los Angeles, a lot of the songwriters from Los Angeles.

They're in Nashville a lot because they want to write with Nashville songwriters so I think it's really just the investment of the people and the technology and both are doing the job of letting the strongest survive.

So you're also a musician performer on the stage.

You've got the Ragie Idiots.

Tell us about your history as a performer and where that fits into what you do.

The Raging Idiots are a comedy duo.

It's how we started, and we were just raising money for charity.

Honestly, I was just looking for ways to tour around, do some funny songs and make a little bit of money to donate to dog shelters and Saint Jude, which.

Is a hospital for kids.

And I was in the hospital a bunch as a kid, and I know that if people didn't help me, like my church and the community, that I don't think I would have been able to actually get the care that I got because we didn't have a whole lot of money.

So Saint Jude they don't have people pay that you show up there.

If you have the kind of cancer, they take care of you.

So that was it.

That's why we started at.

Me and my buddy Eddie, and we tore our and honestly we were just okay.

But The great thing is if you're okay and you work hard enough, you get to be pretty good.

And that's what we did.

From pretty good, we got to a little better than pretty good, and our shows got bigger and we were playing theaters.

We've been able to raise millions of dollars for the hospital.

But it really just started off as two guys playing in like a barbecue restaurant.

So it's a comedy band, but we've been able to do a lot of really serious stuff with them.

You're big on social too.

How does that tie together all you do?

Is it sort of like the listen line used to be at the radio station?

How does it keep you tuned into your audience in real time?

It's where they are, and I want to be where the people are.

I want to be where the people are.

It sounds like.

I'm a little mermaid or something, but you know, it's where the people are.

It's where I can talk to them twenty four hours a day.

The great thing about the radio show is like I'm their friend.

If they're driving in, I'm their companion.

Hopefully they trust that I'm going to give them something compelling to listen to.

If it's happier set if it's funny or not, that I'm their buddy that's going to be with them.

Same with podcasts.

The thing about social media is I can be on it constantly, over and over and over again, saying different things, but also directing them to the longer form media.

Right it's in the end.

It is a wonderful promotional tool for what I feel I do best, which is mid and long form audio.

You know, I want to go back in time a little bit, get a little context on you, especially for people who really know you and you're interested in how you got to be Bobby Balenes, you have an amazing, tough yet inspiring personal story.

Teenage mom who had some abuse issues for her whole life.

Your grandmother's stepped down as an important figure in your life, and it seems that poverty dominated your early life.

Can you share that story.

I was born to a mom who got pregnant at fifteen.

She had me right after her sixteenth birthday.

And having a mom that got pregnant at fifteen, it was very difficult for her because she also didn't come from money.

So she's again in a situation where she didn't have advantage.

And now we're all at a big disadvantage, and so my biological dad was seventeen when she was fifteen.

He left when I was four or five years old.

I was in the hospital for a long time.

He kind of skipped out.

Then.

I don't have a relationship with him.

I never really knew him.

I chased him down a few years ago just to kind of get some closure in my life.

But my mom, being a teenage mom, she wasn't super consistent.

She was gone a lot.

I was adopted by my grandmother.

I was in and out of trailers and apartments, and then it was so normal, you know, looking back as an adult, you kind of admire the tenacity that little sucker who just continued to read books and go to school.

You mentioned earlier, I didn't have a bed.

I never really thought about not having a bed.

I knew I never had a bedroom, but I never had a bed.

So I slept on the couch every night.

My closet was underneath the couch and just got by.

Now.

Luckily, I was pretty good at school, and so from a very young age, I knew that I did not want to be where I was, which was just a place of complete inconsistency.

If that was food if that was where we were living.

We moved around a bunch as a kid, But I think there was a lot of time struggling with Because my mom ended up dying in her forties with addiction issues, there was a lot of struggling with, like even me existing, there was a bunch of guilt that my mom wouldn't have had me, that her life would have been a whole lot better.

So it was just a lot of inconsistency, And I think that's probably now why if there's anything I'm good at, it is being consistent and it's tenacity.

I think those are really the skills that I've developed.

My grandmother was the saving grace.

Anytime my mom would leave, and she would leave for months at a time, a couple of years at a time, I would just go live with my grandmother and she was that consistency.

It just sucks she was so old.

If Grandma's could be younger, that'd be way cooler.

But yeah, like my grandma was what really gave me the idea that consistency even existed.

What advice do you have for young people who've had a background like you and are trying to start their adult lives.

What do you tell them?

I will tell them that if you climb out of the hole, you're so much stronger when you get out of the hole, and once you're back to even you are so much farther ahead than anybody who didn't have it as hard as you to weaponize whatever background you come from and whatever way you can.

And that's generally the advice.

I don't say it's easy.

I will say, yeah, it sucks.

I didn't go to a good school.

I didn't have a good education.

You don't either.

But that doesn't mean we can't use that to our advantage, because again, that's sharpening a different iron that we get to use that other people don't use unless they have to.

Right.

I think perspective is such a gift that nobody wants to get until they have it, because perspective is hard.

You don't get perspective unless you go through something hard like that's the gift that when you have it, you're like, man, this is an awesome gift to have, but it did not feel good while getting it.

And I think real talk like that and that somebody liked this has done it that often helps as well.

I'm sure there must have been some people along the way, in addition to your grandmother who helped you see beyond your circumstances and in the future possibilities.

You mentioned you were a smart student.

You read a lot who put you on that track.

How were those people who influenced you?

Were there people?

Specifically?

My head football coach in high school's name was Vic Gandolf, and he was really the first male influence that I had that was hard on me, and it was of extreme value because I knew he cared about me, and I knew he wanted to see me be better, and his way to do it was to be harder on me.

It was the first time I'd experienced that, and I think a lot of people get that from a parent.

I didn't get that.

From a parent, So I think it was people providing that consistency that gave me the fundamental jump off point to even see that I could do more than what was being done around me.

You've talked a little bit and places I've read that you actually one of your regresses that you didn't get to go to University of Arkansas, which, by the way, they just gave you an honorary degree, So congratulations.

Tell me about that.

Obsession with the razorbacks.

In Arkansas.

We don't have any pro teams in Arkansas.

We don't have much, but we do have something that kind of galvanizes the state, and that is the University of Arkansas.

Like that is pretty much everyone's pride and joy I did not get to go to school there, which was really hard for me because I always wanted to go, but I had to work.

And I think you'll relate to this growing up in a small town and understanding what it's like growing up in the South and having to pay your own bills and insurance and food.

And I had to work, and I was waiting tables, and I was begging for jobs.

And I got a job at a radio station and the radio was forty five minutes away, and they hire me to switch out a Rick D's Countdown CD and clean the front office.

And to me, that was like getting a job in Los Angeles.

I was like, this is crazy.

I cannot believe they're paying me to work at radio station.

Which city was that?

In Bobby The radio station.

Was in Hot Springs, Arkansas, but I went to school in Arkadelphia, Arkansas, so it was about a forty five minute drive too.

And back.

But before my first shift on the weekend of cleaning and flipping a CD, somebody got fired and I was just there.

So they put me on on the weekends.

And as you know, my real name is not Bobby Bones, it's Bobby Estell.

And they said, Okay, your name is going to be Bobby Bones or Bobby Z.

And I was like, man, Bobby Z sounds terrible, so at least I'll sound like a pirate that sounds like a real human.

And that's how I got the name.

Working at that really small station in Hot Springs, Arkansas while I went to college and so yes, I was not able to go to the University of Arkansas, but they did give me an honor, a doctorate, and when I want campus, they have to call me doctor.

And that's pretty cool.

Moral Math and Magic right after this quick break, welcome back to Math and Magic.

Let's hear more from my conversation with Bobby Bones.

Tell us about your starting radio So you go, you do the weekend shift.

Where did you go from there?

What point did you begin to be the Bobby Bones we sort of know and love and appreciate today.

I think that guy came years later, as I was trying to figure out what I could and couldn't do right.

I didn't have the traditional cool or deep booming radio voice.

I really tried to have it.

I tried in every way possible.

And so I went from weekends and I was doing weekend overnights, and then I would do weekend nights.

And the key to my success, at least at the beginning, has always been to be exactly where I'm told to be and where I said i'd be when I was supposed to be there.

And so I was really consistent and if you needed me, I was there.

There's a lot of value in that.

And so I went from doing weekend nights too, I got the night shift.

I'd been at the station for about a year.

I was nineteen years old, and I had some offers pretty quickly to move to like the tri cities like Johnson City, Tennessee had stations that were interested in me coming to do night shows and other markets.

But no one in my family had graduated high school, much less college, and so my goal was to go and finish college.

So I stayed my entire run at KLAZ in Hot Springs, Arkansas.

I did nights.

Looking back, it was awesome.

I built a really big, cool, fun night show, especially for that area.

From there, I went to Little Rock and I was there like six months.

From Little Rock, went to Austin, Texas and never been to Austin in my life, and that's where I started to kind of find who I was and that I didn't have what was traditional.

But again, my weakness ended up being my biggest strength because I didn't chase that anymore.

I knew what I had was the ability to talk to people, not at people, and although I didn't sound like what was traditional, I did sound like people that were traditionally in the lives of the people that listened to my show, so it kind of sounded like a friend and that worked.

I did nights in Austin, and they were going to flip the format of the station in Austin and I just got an offer to move to Seattle and do nights, and I remember they called me in the office and said, Hey, what can we do to keep you?

And I said I'd love to do mornings.

I was twenty two, and they were like, I don't think that's going to be able to happen.

I went in that following Monday and they offered me fifty thousand dollars a year to do mornings, and I thought I was the richest.

It was Beverly Hillbilly's, Bob.

It was Beverly Hillbilly's Just you know, thirty years later.

I love that You've done a number of high profile TV projects.

Let's hit a few of them.

How did you get on American Idol?

What did you both contribute and learn from that?

So everything that I've done in any other medium other than radio is based off of my success in radio.

So you know, my hub of radio podcast has allowed me to get in places and then they realize how big the following is because of audio, and then they allow me to expand.

But I had done a pilot for ABC at daytime talk show pilot with Deon Sanders.

It did not get picked up.

So that's very disappointing because we worked hard on it.

But I had made a couple of contacts, and it's all about relationships, and I think if anything, they were able to see that I have a bit of talent.

But I was super consistent.

It's the key to my success.

And they said, hey, we need somebody to come in for one episode on American Idol, and we want you to work with the contestants on how to be interviewed, how to be on camera.

And it really was no more than that.

It was one episode, and so I was like cool.

They didn't know anything about me, the people that were running the show, So I didn't tell them I was from Nashville because I didn't want them to think that it was going to be difficult for me to get to set.

So I do the job.

I come, I crush it for one episode.

But what they realized and what I was able to do was talk to these kids and young adults because a lot of them for the first time.

I had never been to Los Angeles or New York, and here I am.

I had the same story.

I'd never been to a big city like that until work got me there.

And as wide eyed as they were, that's what I was not too long before that, So being able to relate to their stories and situations, but also so having the knowledge of knowing music, knowing how to be good on Mike and on camera, knowing what songs to pick, having a history of just studying music and pop culture like all that helps.

They put me on two episodes again.

They didn't know that I didn't live there.

So I'm making Union minimum, which is like two thousand dollars an episode for the first two episodes, but it's costing me about three thousand dollars an episode to be out there because I happened to fly both ways.

I'm having to pay for my own hotel.

I just didn't want to be anw sence therefore they wouldn't work with me anymore.

In my mind, that's what happened.

So they had me back for a third episode.

I'm down like four grand at this point doing three episodes of American Idol, And finally I told them, Hey, just so you guys know, I've lost a bunch of money doing that.

I love doing it, but I don't live in LA and would love to do more.

But is there a way at that you could compensate?

And they were like, oh, yeah, of course.

So the final episode of the season one, they gave me fifty thousand dollars and I'm like, oh, this is awesome.

I'd built a relationship with those guys.

They trusted me where they would send talent with me, and Ryan was really starting to get busy doing Ryan and Kelly and so there were times when Ryan couldn't fly back to Los Angeles, so any of his junior varsity duties they would have me do.

I haven't filled in his host for him once when he got sick, so I was basically Ryan's JV squad, which to me awesome, I'll take it.

But they came back season two and they were like, hey, we want you to be a full time member.

And I can tell you the pay was about fifty times what it was for that one final episode.

And again it was because I showed up on time every time and had the ability to talk with people, not talk at them.

So Dancing with the Stars, I've never thought of you as the amazing dancer, yet you won Dancing with the Stars.

What's that story?

Well, still was an amazing dancer even after I won.

The real story is and God's honest truth, they told me after the final episode after I won the show, because I was not good.

I'd never danced before.

I was also the only person that had a job and was working the entire show because a lot of people on that are creatives and they cut off a time, or they're ex athletes and they cut out a time and they go and spend three months dancing on television.

I couldn't do that because I had a radio show to do every single morning, and so I did the show because I was in La So I would be on at three am to eight am, and then I would go and train for six eight hours, no dance experience at all, and I am surviving.

I am not thriving.

I never got great scores, but I was never in the bottom three.

It's a bit controversial because I wasn't good, but I took it very seriously.

I trained really hard.

I ended up winning the show.

The executive told me at ABC, he said, hey, look, we knew about after episode one or two that nobody had the following you did.

That.

There were people with millions and millions on social media and I have a million, a couple million, but with like tens of millions that didn't have the following that you did.

And it was because the people that listen to my radio show and podcasts came along with me.

That was the whole reason I won.

They saw I was serious about it.

I was, and that's what allowed me to win that show.

Was like, my people came along with me.

So how does being on TV different from being on the radio.

You got to put on more makeup.

That sucks.

You got to wait around a lot.

I love doing audio, doing radio, doing podcasting more than anything in the whole world.

TV is so fickle, and you go job to job again.

I'll give some more credit to Ryan Seacrest.

When we did Idle together, we would talk about that and he would go, hey, TV's fun, it's glamorous.

It makes you cool for a second.

But if you want a sustaining career and you want people to stay with you, it's audio.

I've always felt that way too, you know, I always wanted to have a late night talk show.

What's cool now is you can do that.

You just turn some cameras on and you also record the audio for a podcast.

And so television has been fun.

It's allowed me to try things.

I've gotten hurt a few times.

I did a show called Breaking Bobby Bones, Let Me on Fire, through Me Off Buildings.

Like all that's happened.

I feel like I've been to have a pretty successful television career, but it doesn't feel as authentic, even at its most authentic, as audio does.

Let's jump to podcasting.

Some people call it radio on demand, like Netflix is probably TV on demand.

How does podcasting differ from doing a live radio show.

I think if you love long form like super long form media, which I do, podcasting is a plus.

I think it just kind of depends what your schedule is, right.

I'm trying to make content to fit everybody's schedule that has every different kind of schedule.

So if you got thirty seconds, I got something for you on the YouTube channel or my social if you have an hour and fifteen minutes.

I had Ringo Star over at the house and it was crazy, and we did an hour and fifteen minutes talking about the Beatles and talking about country music.

Podcasting allows me to really get down in.

The weeds a little bit.

Even this conversation.

We probably wouldn't get to have this on my morning radio show, mostly for time reasons.

But sitting here with you now, we could do this for three hours with really no restrictions.

Now that's not for everybody, but for the people it's four It really fills a need and I'm one of those people that need it.

You're the host of the iHeart Country Festival in Austin each year.

How does that fit with everything else you do?

It's kind of the tent pole of everything else I do.

All of my success has been because of the success and the investment in me with the radio show.

You know, there's the wedding and the wedding reception, and so the iHeart Country Festival that's kind of the wedding reception of the job.

And what's been really cool is I've played the festival four times.

I've hosted it I think nine or ten times at this point.

So I feel like I'm as ingrained as that festival is to just this time of year.

And Austin is a great city for it.

It's not Nashville.

Nashville people tend to get a bit jaded because it's always here Austin.

I lived there for twelve years.

People love music, it's it's a great place to go and have this festival.

The artists love it as well, and so for me is kind of the party and the celebration of what we've been able to do and also what we're doing.

But also with my friends.

Again, those guys, I think there are three acts that played my literal wedding.

I didn't pay them.

They're just my friends who were coming to the wedding anyway.

So they got up there and sang songs.

You've done some amazing interviews.

What do you try to get each time you interview with someone?

I try to feel what they're feeling when we start, because I can go into an interview with my goals, even an agenda, but if the person isn't feeling it, I think now I have the emotional intelligence to roll with them and trust that I will get us somewhere, if not just as good better.

So I think silence is a massive weapon that I now am comfortable using.

And it's hard to be silent interview.

It feels awkward.

Some people always want there to be sound.

Some people that are doing interviews, if there's a gap, they want to fill it.

I feel now comfortable enough in my own skin and interviewing skills to sit in silence for a second, because what happens is the person being interviewed often gives their best if there's silence, because they put the pressure on them to continue allowing you into their lives.

More So, I think for me, I have an idea of what I want, I'll quickly change.

You know.

It's like if you have an offensive plan, but they've got eight guys in the box.

You're not going to run the ball, so you're now going to have to throw the ball, so you better adjust quickly.

I think now I feel comfortable doing that, and that happens a lot, and when it doesn't, it's awesome, but when it does, there have been times where it's better than it would have been regardless.

I think just being comfortable knowing that and trusting myself to modify on the move has been really great for me, and that just comes from reps, honestly doing it over and over again.

Been intimidated by any of the stars interview.

At first, I think I was because they were all rich.

And what's weird is I'm rich now too, thanks to you, So that part's gone.

So I was always like, man, people with money, I'm just so intimidated by them.

But now it's there's an understanding with creatives that I'm talking to that we all kind of have a screw loose.

It just happens to be the right screw we're able to create something really cool.

And also, as I've been in Nashville and got to be friends with a lot of the men women that have come up around the same time, meaning they didn't have much success and now they're massive.

They're just normal people.

But it's easy to say that until you actually see that.

You know, I did idol with Luke Bryan for four years and we would travel to and from and looks like a close friend, but looks like the most normal guy.

And I mentioned Ringo Star earlier and I wasn't intimidated by him, but what I was intimidated by was the history of him.

And I think my intimidation kind of rooted in I'd rather not screw this up because of the history of who I'm sitting with.

So a moment can be intimidating now, I think way more than a person can, because in the end, we're all awesome and flawed.

But it's taken me a long time to realize that.

I think, of all the interviewers you've done, that's the only one you ever sent me a text about.

With the picture then okay.

And that's why, because I also know, I know you appreciate the history of it aside from it being Ringo, and that's cool.

It was kind of like, hey, Bob, you're like me, You'll really appreciate this.

This is real history that we're getting to be a part of right Now.

Let's talk a little bit about ambition and expectations.

When you're growing up in Mountain Pine, did you think you'd be successful as an adult?

What kind of dreams of the future did you allow.

Yourself to have.

Oh yeah, I thought I'd be so successful, only because if I didn't believe that, I don't think I would have.

Got out of there.

So there was never a lack of confidence.

At times, there was a lack of understanding how I was going to do it because nobody else around me was doing it.

That was TV like moving out of your town, moving out of Arkansas.

That was television only that wasn't real life.

I was never told I couldn't do something.

I think that's pretty cool.

I was not shown how to do anything, But I was never told I couldn't.

And so I was just naive enough and just confident enough to lean into it and really not have a plan B.

And that's what I did.

You know.

It's interesting there's a lot of talk in America about people and living in poverty, etc.

But all of us who.

Were poor, I think, probably share one trait, as we all dreamed about doing really well.

To me, it was more I just want to be fulfilled and not hate my job.

Everybody hated their job, like my stepdad when my mom got married, he hated going to the mill.

Anybody did it every day, and so I didn't want that, and I had crazy aspirations, and I knew they were crazy then, but also knew that every once in a while something crazy happens to people that have crazy dreams, and so it also didn't happen overnight.

There's revisionist history that it was like all of a sudden, I'm born in Arkansas, Boom, I have a national radio show, Like there never really was this moment where everything changed.

It was one rung of the ladder, sometimes falling down a couple of rungs, and slowly growing it.

You know, this podcast is actually for marketers, Math and Magic stories from the frontiers of marketing.

A lot of marketers don't listen to country music, and they don't really have an understanding of it.

What advice would you give them about how they should use it.

I think what happens with people who don't listen to country music is that they've probably been conditioned that country music is a cariacture of what it really is.

I think if you were to go to somebody says, oh, do you listen to country, and they're like, no, they do an impression of country.

They'd go battle, Lame, Dame down.

And there is part of that and it's rooted in that.

But what the country music is to me is just authentic lyrics, music with mostly real instruments, stories, and then loyalty to artists like I talked about earlier, loyalty to people, loyalty just like loyalty they want with their products.

Right.

I think that's what country music is.

It is based in loyalty.

It's got to be good or people aren't gonna like it.

There's a reason that these guys are selling out football stadiums, and it's not because there's a bunch of people in overall showing up, which by the way, I had many pair of overalls and God bless overalls.

But it's normal people that are going to normal jobs that have money that spends just like anyone else's does, but oftentimes feel like they're not paid the attention to because they're not in La or New York.

And I relate to that so much.

So still a little advice here, if you could go back in time.

What advice would you give your twenty one year old self.

It's just tenacity is a talent.

Because I never felt like I was super talented at anything, because I ever had one skill that I can lean on.

It couldn't sing, didn't have a great voice, wasn't super funny, didn't have really one thing that I knew if all else went wrong, I could lean on this talent.

But as I got older, I started to realize that being tenacious and not stopping being tenacious, that's a real talent.

And I would just say, continue to be tenacious, continue to be curious, and it's all going to happen.

It may not happen at the pace that you want.

Sometimes it may happen faster than you want.

Sometimes it may happen in a way that you're not ready for.

But if you just keep pushing, eventually it'll happen.

Bobby, it is a real honor and pleasure to work with you here at iHeart, and it's rewarding to watch the audience you've built on the radio and podcast and see how you take such great care of them.

Thank you and thanks for the insights today.

Yeah, thank you for having me and I'll just do the shameless.

You can put a lot of touch on my fingertips right now.

I literally wouldn't be here if it weren't for a guy from a small town in Mississippi who believed in a small town kid from Arkansas and going, we're going to invest in you.

Therefore we believe in you and the guy his name is Bob, just like my name.

So I would not be here without mister Bob Pittman.

You're from a small town and it takes people like you to do things sometimes for people like me to go okay, someone else did it before me.

I think I can really dial in as well.

So without me being able to see that, and without you believing in me, I definitely wouldn't be here today.

Well, you've been one of the great investments of our company.

Thanks Bobby.

Here are a few things I picked up from my conversation with Bobby.

One, consistency can be everything.

Bobby didn't feel like he had an especially deep radio voice.

He actually didn't think he had any special skills, but early in his career, if stations needed him, he was there.

Bobby's dependability continue.

You need to benefit him for years to come.

It still does.

Being reliable and tenacious or talents in themselves.

And they won't go unnoticed.

Two.

Own your story.

Bobby has a strong sense of.

Identity, shaped by the unique perspective he gained through his challenging childhood.

Perspective is a hard won strength that you shouldn't take for granted.

Bobby has used it to connect with his listeners and build an incredibly loyal fan base.

He knows that the intimacy and authenticity of audio has allowed him to show up as himself.

That's part of what makes him stand out.

From the crowd.

Three.

Emotional intelligence is a muscle you can train.

Bobby has a deep connection with his fans, but he also had to learn how to engage his guests.

Conducting a great interview doesn't mean sticking to.

A pre prepared script.

It means listening and understanding where someone is coming from.

Interviewing didn't always come naturally to Bobby, but he developed the skill by doing it over and over and over again.

Whether you're in the studio, a conference room, or a boardroom, growing your emotional intelligence can make you more adaptable in any situation.

I'm Bob Pittman.

Thanks for listening.

That's it for today's episode.

Thanks so much for listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts.

The show is created and hosted by Bob Pittman.

Special thanks to Sidney Rosenbloom for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no small feat.

The Math and Magic team is Jessica Crimechich and Baheed Fraser.

Our executive producers are Ali Perry and Nikki Etour.

Until next time.