[SPEAKER_00]: If you're listening to the intentional parents podcast, brought to you by Intentional.

[SPEAKER_00]: Intentional is all about spiritual formation in the family.

[SPEAKER_00]: We desire to bring biblical hope and practical hope.

[SPEAKER_00]: Enjoy this week's conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the intentional parents podcast, trauma and crisis.

[SPEAKER_00]: How do we respond to these things?

[SPEAKER_00]: Most of us are going to experience that in life.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some sort of trauma or crisis, some big tea trauma, some little tea trauma.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know Elizabeth and I, we've had a lot of crisis in our life.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we want to talk about what are some of the ways that not only those closest to you can respond, what's a helpful way, what's biblical, what's clear, but also for the family and crisis, what are some of the things that [SPEAKER_00]: We've had to learn through hardship in the hard way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so we want to talk about that today We also have all four of us here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Phil.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's been a couple episodes since you've been on welcome back.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you Glad to have still be alive.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good be here.

[SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah, I feel like do we have we told that story?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to tell that story?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you know [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a no.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think the point is right now, though, we're going to tease that out one day.

[SPEAKER_00]: You'll hear a great story, but Phil's okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: You did break some ribs and you're all right.

[SPEAKER_00]: You broken our feeling really good right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: You feel strong.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's relieving this weekend.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I want to say thank you for everyone that's rated and subscribed.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's so helpful, isn't it?

[SPEAKER_00]: When people rate and subscribe, you can say yes.

[SPEAKER_07]: Please talk to me about this because every single time you say that, I think [SPEAKER_07]: I have never rated and subscribed.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, oh.

[SPEAKER_07]: I should do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think of it every time you see it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wait a second.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not bad.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not bad.

[SPEAKER_00]: You haven't done anything wrong by not like rating a podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying, I was asking the question, isn't it helpful?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's helpful.

[SPEAKER_08]: It's helpful.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I should help some more podcasts by doing it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing how that became so much about guilt for your own self.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a lot about you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: Well, literally every time you say it.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I'm like, Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm not trying to convict.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was literally just sincerely trying to say that it is actually helpful.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you haven't had a chance to do that, if you just rate the podcast really quick, subscribe and then leave in a comment, subscribing super helpful for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then YouTube audience, if you could please hit that subscribe button and then the thumbs up.

[SPEAKER_00]: And even the little bell, it reminds you when we actually have new episodes that come out.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have a growing YouTube space so you can watch all this or check out a bunch of different shorts.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have a bunch of content over on YouTube that we are not releasing in the podcast space.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you are curious what that is, go watch it.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can subscribe there.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you have to be great, but will you show me after we're done?

[SPEAKER_00]: I will.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is, I don't know if this is beautiful or sad.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not sure if one.

[SPEAKER_04]: Your wife is feeling convicted by you and your mother in law.

[SPEAKER_08]: I'm thinking of just the different world our kids are growing up in because I have a blackmail video on my phone of Duke.

[SPEAKER_08]: when he was probably, I don't know, eight or nine, had maybe seen one YouTube video in his life.

[SPEAKER_08]: And it's him with a fake YouTube channel.

[SPEAKER_08]: He didn't actually have a channel.

[SPEAKER_05]: He was just recording a video of him and his own.

[SPEAKER_07]: And him saying, welcome back to my channel.

[SPEAKER_07]: Feel free to hit that like and subscribe.

[SPEAKER_07]: But I do a Lego tutorial.

[SPEAKER_00]: I did not know that I didn't know he had said, I mean, I knew that happened.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know he said, go ahead and hit that like and subscribe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you most definitely can I am absolutely, I mean, that's kind of the world of living.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: A couple of their details, motherhood retreat is coming up October 23rd, through 25th.

[SPEAKER_00]: We don't like to timestamp some of our episodes, but if you are listening to this and it is before October 23rd, 2025, [SPEAKER_00]: We have our, yeah, we have our mother retreat.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are getting close to the end of our tickets excited about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So please for all of you last minuteers and honestly this stage of life is just last minute sign up.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's great.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we can't wait.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have some fun surprises happening and we're getting ready.

[SPEAKER_00]: Have some fun announcements.

[SPEAKER_00]: We get to share there, which is good.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then also want to remind everybody we are just in this push right now of reminding everyone that intentional is a nonprofit which we rely on the generosity of our legacy builders and and really your generosity to help get this word out to people and that spiritual formation of the family.

[SPEAKER_00]: And anyone that gives $25 a month or more, it's a monthly contribution.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to send the new book that I just wrote, Sowing a Hidden Seed, which is daily prayers for your child's soul, and these are 31 days of prayers for you to pray over your kids.

[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, pray over yourself too, but just take advantage of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like, we will, as we've mentioned last time, we will sell the book in the near future, but just as a heads up right now, we're just kind of doing that campaign to help people know that we would love to partner with you in that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Those are some of the details.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's some of the housework, some of the details for today.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we want to talk about trauma and crisis.

[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously hard right turn.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about Galatians six two.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we want to kind of share this from our own story.

[SPEAKER_00]: This has been an episode that Elizabeth you have actually multiple times said, we should do an episode on crisis and the family trauma and crisis and how to respond to it.

[SPEAKER_08]: I didn't navigate it as a family.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so really, that's what we want to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Galatians 6 2, I'm just going to start with that really quick.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we want to start there because it's easy to think that for anybody listening, like, yeah, people are in crisis, maybe even your own family, you know, extended families in crisis, it might be even easy to think, like, well, that's not my responsibility or why do I need to help or I'm not really close.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's a lot of these different things we might tell ourselves.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's important to start with, [SPEAKER_00]: The scriptures are really clear.

[SPEAKER_00]: Galatians 6 to carry each other's burdens.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in this way, you fulfill the law of Christ.

[SPEAKER_00]: burdens could be a plethora of things.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it also very much includes different traumas and crises that we go through as families and as individuals.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we want to talk about that today.

[SPEAKER_00]: Carrying each other's burdens and actually how do we live that out?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll just say one more thing, and I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts just to set this up.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, as we carry someone's burden, if you think about that, it's a really interesting idea.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's carrying the weight of someone's problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that means it's probably going to weigh on your shoulders and it's going to be heavy for you too.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think of it like, upon this airing, again, we don't like the time stamp stuff, but upon this airing, obviously, just yesterday, Charlie Kirk lost his life and you know, a ton of people are talking about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: What a moment of crisis, not only for him, you think about his wife, his kids, his family, his parents.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you think about it as a country, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: There's crisis that happened to us.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a burden like I couldn't shake yesterday.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just felt heavy, really heavy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not, those things don't usually impact me because we're so connected in our world that we can often hear about a lot of different things and kind of go well.

[SPEAKER_00]: But this was just particularly obviously there was an evil element to it, um, and all to say that there's crisis is happening all around us.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what do we do?

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe as a country, as individuals, as families, we have a responsibility in one part or another to actually carry each other's burdens to step into the messiness of someone's story and to help.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's the stage, [SPEAKER_01]: You can go first.

[SPEAKER_01]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_00]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_00]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_00]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_00]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_02]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_08]: You want us to go first?

[SPEAKER_08]: I think we've had in our family like really acute.

[SPEAKER_08]: crisis and trauma that's like all consuming in the moment type thing and then we've also had ongoing effects of that because of that kind of both.

[SPEAKER_08]: So I think of there's like the really hard things that happen that are like all consuming for a time but then life returns back to somewhat normal.

[SPEAKER_08]: That's one type of crisis and trauma.

[SPEAKER_08]: And then they're probably more often, the kind that something really hard happens and they're ongoing effects for years and years and years and years.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I think I've learned a lot in walking the years and years and years, the last 10 years of both the acute and the ongoing effect.

[SPEAKER_08]: And just the different seasons of what that feels like to be the person experiencing it.

[SPEAKER_08]: and the different needs that arise, whether it's during the acute phase or in the long-lasting phase, in ways that family can, like extended family, can show up and be the hands and feet of Jesus, and [SPEAKER_08]: be a place of healing, even though they can't fix it or take it away.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I think I've just seen the value of a family knowing how to walk through hard life together and how helpful that can be and how much it can literally help carry the burden.

[SPEAKER_08]: It doesn't remove the burden.

[SPEAKER_08]: But so often we just need to know that somebody sees our burden.

[SPEAKER_08]: they know a little bit of what it's like and they're willing to help shoulder it a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe just to add, we beautifully said, just to add, it can also be friends, you know, because some people have really challenging family situations and I think what's so cool is how where the family of God.

[SPEAKER_00]: So when I say family, I mean, like, I mean, I have friends that are closer than family, right, that have become family.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think there are those things as well to highlight like this could just be someone who's your friend.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if it'd be helpful to just start with a story to share like where we've experienced this as a family, the four of us.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll stick with the four of us because that's our lived experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think to start with the story and honey, please, I would love for you to fill in the gaps or just color the story as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we had a very [SPEAKER_00]: Many different moments where you feel and I have come into our life to help.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not only help make this beautiful woman here, so thank you for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then also like moments where you stepped into our life and really been able to shoulder something with us.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so two particular stories stick out.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've shared the story of Bertie before she had catastrophic form of epilepsy at six months old everything was fine She was totally healthy and then every all of a sudden she wasn't and then she had long term permanent brain damage from this catastrophic form of epilepsy called the mental spasms [SPEAKER_00]: But that's the story where we're recovering from that to this day.

[SPEAKER_00]: Still, there's a lot of recovery happening and our family changed on in that moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: It changed forever and her life changed forever and she's still one of the sweetest little most challenging most hard for me to always connect with and understand humans ever and it's like all in.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just love so like even thinking about her.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like tear up in life because she's so funny and so unique and so wonderful.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that said there was a particular moment the night this happened that I want to recall because it was actually very interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think you I know you feel that but you go into the doctor you're in the the ER.

[SPEAKER_00]: At this point you went to obviously the general doctor and you thought birdie just had a near infection.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then they're like, oh, that's that's interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they immediately get you to the hospital.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe just take it from there.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_08]: They saw like a suspicious movement that she made that we had been seeing happen, but we were not thinking seizure.

[SPEAKER_08]: The doctor basically gets all awkward.

[SPEAKER_08]: Goes out of the room, comes back in and says, I called the hospital.

[SPEAKER_08]: I'm sending you there right now.

[SPEAKER_08]: They're ready to receive you.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like what in the world is happening?

[SPEAKER_08]: Mom and dad, you guys were on vacation.

[SPEAKER_08]: We were living in Portland at the time.

[SPEAKER_08]: You guys were in California.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I just love the beautiful grace of God because my sister, Rebecca, who lived in California, go have them to be there, staying at your house.

[SPEAKER_05]: We live across the street.

[SPEAKER_08]: So we're scrambling, calling Rebecca asking her to come over and watch Duke and Scarlet, Brooks meeting me at the hospital.

[SPEAKER_08]: We're texting you guys, like we don't know what's happening.

[SPEAKER_08]: Just know we're going to the hospital, and it was just this crazy 24 hours of doctors and tests and trying to figure out what she had.

[SPEAKER_08]: And by the next day, they had figured out that she had this catastrophic form of epilepsy.

[SPEAKER_08]: And remember, on the phone with you and you, mom, we're like, do we need to come?

[SPEAKER_08]: And I was like, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like, I have no idea what I need.

[SPEAKER_08]: I don't know how long we're going to be here.

[SPEAKER_08]: I don't know what any of this means.

[SPEAKER_08]: All they've told it was a Sunday.

[SPEAKER_08]: So we couldn't see the neurologist till Monday.

[SPEAKER_08]: And all they had told us was what she had and that it was really bad.

[SPEAKER_08]: And that they didn't know very much about it because it was so rare.

[SPEAKER_08]: And so I had no idea what we needed at that point.

[SPEAKER_08]: I had no idea how long we'd be in the hospital.

[SPEAKER_08]: And you guys made the decision on your own.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like we just need to pack up and head that way because we know they're gonna need something and we just wanna be there.

[SPEAKER_00]: What can I pause the story right there?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because we're in this crisis in Portland.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're who knows what time of the night it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're just texting years like time doesn't matter.

[SPEAKER_00]: But tell us from your perspective when you got the color of the text, where were you going to remember in the middle of the night?

[SPEAKER_04]: Because we just finished teaching a parenting conference in the whole weekend at a church.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's right.

[SPEAKER_04]: And we were just a couple hours from where we all, [SPEAKER_04]: You know, as big as grew up, they cashing up in the Sierra, isn't it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Were you an Arnold?

[SPEAKER_04]: We were in Murphy's.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Murphy's.

[SPEAKER_04]: So we thought, oh, we're here down here.

[SPEAKER_04]: Let's go spend a couple days at the gold country.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it reminds me of these memories and, you know, and then come home.

[SPEAKER_04]: So we got into this.

[SPEAKER_04]: not nice or tell because you thought any nice hotels up there and uh the you call it I don't know what in the morning or something.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was 11 in my mind sticks out it was 11 and when we first heard it might be something.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: We just got we got to get home week.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was like the early flight because we were [SPEAKER_04]: driving toward West toward Sacramento and the sun was coming up and lining up.

[SPEAKER_00]: So did you guys have to get tickets?

[SPEAKER_04]: We had to buy tickets and get something.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you like out on the phone and borrow it?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because we weren't going to come home.

[SPEAKER_04]: We had to get a ticket home.

[SPEAKER_04]: So in the closest airport with Sacramento.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I just remember driving.

[SPEAKER_04]: towards Sacramento airport praying for birdie and you guys and it was just the sun was rising so must have probably a 7 a.m.

[SPEAKER_04]: flight or something.

[SPEAKER_04]: We had to get back as fast as we could.

[SPEAKER_04]: It wasn't a hard decision to make.

[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was this sense of great unrest.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you start a little ahead, I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then I do remember to Rebecca had already looked up the diagnosis online [SPEAKER_02]: possibly happen.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it was catastrophic.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so it wasn't not a hard decision.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was we were actually lying in bed when we got the phone call and we couldn't even lay back down.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was a crisis.

[SPEAKER_02]: It happened to see you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So those are clear.

[SPEAKER_02]: In this case, it was clear.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not always clear like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: But in this case, it was a who's going to go back to sleep.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Because I mean, the verse she started with, [SPEAKER_04]: You know, carry each other's burdens in New York, standard, it's bare one another's burdens.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's written to a church, written to the Galacians.

[SPEAKER_04]: So we're, we're, we're believers.

[SPEAKER_04]: First of all, part of the family of God, but now we're your parents.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so it's, it wasn't really a hard decision to make because it's a response.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's, it's important to highlight though, I know to you it wasn't a hard decision to make.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that is not, that is not the common thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, now I know that there's a lot of people listening like, yeah, I'd absolutely go, but you have a choice just like everyone else and you could have said we're going to ride this out this kind of like, keep us updated in the morning, you know, just let us know you don't know anything yet like, let's not fear, let's not, you know, you could, that would have been a completely reasonable response.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we would have been like, oh my gosh, we're so offended.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there was also something really important, I think we can say from our side, you guys deciding to drop everything, especially the part of your life that would have that's the fun part.

[SPEAKER_00]: This was the fun part.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of easy to skip out on work things, it's harder to skip out on the stuff that the vacation moments when you set them up for so long, and you guys just stopped everything and came home.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, [SPEAKER_00]: even though you like you couldn't even really do much right like at that moment it wasn't like you could be doing anything in the hospital but you were there and i think that's a huge thing to note is the presence presence in these moments of crisis matters in a huge way [SPEAKER_00]: and you guys literally stopped everything and you came and your presence was just was so comforting and felt and I think it was I'll never forget this image because it's so strong in my head and I think it was you guys and at that time we had it was you know west side bridge town 26 West like these were the churches that we had planted in that area and I think that [SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember who it was, but you like someone was calling on the elders, but it was like not just of like westside, it was like bridge town and all the different churches.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I just remember we're in Portland at this very small hospital room and all the elders and their wives and come in and just with an insane authority.

[SPEAKER_00]: all the nurses on the floor.

[SPEAKER_00]: The ones that were saved, I mean, we're just like speaking in tongues and praising Jesus.

[SPEAKER_00]: The other ones were like, what is going on?

[SPEAKER_00]: Why are they hurt?

[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like shouting at us.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was so small.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's so sweaty in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I have to believe, and I mean, it was loud the door could be closed and they're just like claiming birdies life and I remember that I'll never forget it and why I'm sharing that stories because it was amazing to see like we don't know and this is a tangent but not really we don't know how much worse birdies situation could have been I think there was tons of prayers answered in that moment now the full kind of healing we wanted or we want hasn't happened like that [SPEAKER_00]: But I have to believe, because the case that she has in retail spasms, we also met kids that have had this, that they usually die between five and seven.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the amount of kids that we have met that can't walk can't eat, haven't ever been able to, is not uncommon.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I have to believe, like the fact that Birdie's part of the best case scenario for what she has is in due to these moments of these people coming in and praying and just being present.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I just wanted to highlight that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, feeling the gaps, honey.

[SPEAKER_08]: Well, just one thing I think it's important to say with that.

[SPEAKER_08]: Every family is different, all the dynamics are different.

[SPEAKER_08]: There might be somebody listening who's like, I would not want my parents to just come without asking me, like that would not be helpful.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_08]: And so I think with this as you navigate this, I'm thinking to the extended family, you also have to know the relationship you have with, whoever it is, you're feeling burdened to help.

[SPEAKER_08]: And you can't put all the onus on them of saying, [SPEAKER_08]: But I do think we had the type of relationship where you knew coming home and just being available was not going to be a burden for us that that would be helpful.

[SPEAKER_08]: But I do think there's sometimes in this you kind of have to say, okay, here's the three things that I'm thinking.

[SPEAKER_08]: I'll do any of them, or I'll do all of them.

[SPEAKER_08]: What would be most helpful?

[SPEAKER_08]: And then you can't be offended if they turn down the one you thought would be most helpful.

[SPEAKER_08]: Or that you wanted to do the most helpful.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_08]: So I think it's hard to talk about this because I'm thinking of like, there are some people listening who the parents are going to come in and they're going to take over.

[SPEAKER_08]: And it's not going to be helpful.

[SPEAKER_08]: But I think in our case, I think the point is, [SPEAKER_08]: being present.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like there's, there's so much power we've talked about in a ton in just being present to people, being present to what's happening and not trying to make it better than it is hyper-spiritualizing it.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like just being present to somebody in their pain, which means you have to know what's going on.

[SPEAKER_08]: You have to understand what the diagnosis is.

[SPEAKER_08]: If you can't connect with it, you have to find ways to try to connect with what's happening.

[SPEAKER_08]: And not be afraid to fumble and to not know how to say the right thing.

[SPEAKER_08]: I think we've talked about this before too.

[SPEAKER_08]: The most herbal thing is when people, whether family members or friends just say nothing because they're afraid to say the wrong thing, right?

[SPEAKER_08]: So presence does not have to be perfect or that you have to feel like you have the right thing to offer or the right thing to say, but just being available in order to shoulder somebody's burden have to be really available.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I would add to that with very little expectation of what that person, the family member or friend in crisis, lower your expectation to almost no, because a person in crisis, that's not the real person.

[SPEAKER_02]: That is just fear and anger and yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: terror.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'll come into the surface at one time.

[SPEAKER_02]: So almost expect that the person in the middle of the crisis is going to be kind of on a free for all.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if you go in just with some resilience and say, [SPEAKER_02]: I need to let this person that I love so much vent or complain or criticize me or, you know, just be in the moment.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's what family can do and some friendships.

[SPEAKER_02]: The people who really walk together in community, but that's rare.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it's who we want to be a family like wherever you are right now, I can take that because I see the long, I see who you really are.

[SPEAKER_02]: When I had a much smaller crisis, but it felt scary when Matthew was eight, and he got diabetes.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a horrible scare.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you know, my parents, I was terrified.

[SPEAKER_02]: And my parents did ask, you know, what can we do?

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you want us to come?

[SPEAKER_02]: And I said, no, wishing I would have said yes, because actually my parents are really good in a crisis.

[SPEAKER_02]: They just could do stuff and they would do worse and helpers.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I said no because I was concerned about having to kind of, I'd always played the role in the family of I take care of everybody.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I didn't have the capacity to take care of my kids who were at home while I was in the hospital plus my parents, but it would have been so easy to say to them, yes, but could you get a hotel and could you just, you know, we're in crisis mode, you know, and they would have if I had laid out the groundwork, I know that they would have.

[SPEAKER_02]: they would have done it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's a compliant, but we didn't at the time honestly have that kind of a relationship and I didn't have to express my need.

[SPEAKER_08]: So haven't you said before in the back of your mind, you wished they had just not even know you told them about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I do.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just wish they got me, yeah, I would have come.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I had it, but that's I mean, that's not me, but it's yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, they couldn't have stayed with us because we were in that horrible apartment to talk.

[SPEAKER_08]: I remember.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love my dad.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the idea of those are your expectations.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you are the person coming into help, just get, just allow a crisis to be a crisis.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to, you know, go through, because we have actually a couple of things for the the family supporting, which would be filling their in the situation and then the family through crisis.

[SPEAKER_00]: We want to just kind of talk about two different responses.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because there [SPEAKER_00]: There's one more just story that I think kind of puts a bow on this whole thing because what we were just talking about is a moment of crisis.

[SPEAKER_00]: In our situation, we've had the, I say this with complete sarcasm.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've had the gift of both crisis and long-form suffering in ways that we would definitely not have chosen.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not me feeling sorry for myself as much as that's our reality and it [SPEAKER_00]: It's sometimes can help lose the the weight of it, like, you know, I've, I've had to just be honest with myself, like, oh, I experience a lot of suffering, whether that's my own self, my own family situation.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the more I deny it, the more angry it makes me, the more I can name it and say that's what it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: God help me the more patience I can have with myself in situation.

[SPEAKER_00]: That said, though, I think there, so that's like a moment of crisis, something that's also been, again, we're going to stick to just us four, that has been really helpful, is the story of you guys moving to bent, so we all have been bent organ and turns out that most people really like bent, because I need to where we go and travel, they just go, oh my gosh, I always want to go or I've been there, I love it, or and we didn't move here for any of those reasons, but we do, we do really enjoy it as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great spot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Please come visit and all of the mother hybrid trees we do here are marriage retreats, everyone's like, [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay, please keep doing it in Ben.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that said, I kind of want to highlight that story.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I don't even share the story, but tell us of the morning.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cause I, what I remember is just bits and pieces, you guys will fill it in beautifully, but the morning that the spirit was doing some things in your heart.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to highlight a couple of things throughout, but would you die in, take us?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we talked for years since birdies, you know, held this and you moved to Ben's for a job, which is about three and a half hour drive from where we lived in Portland on the west side.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we talked whenever we came to visit about maybe we'll move here some day of that kind of thing, but we [SPEAKER_02]: But we were in, like, our forever house.

[SPEAKER_02]: We'd fixed up this old, um, uh, 1969 ranch.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we just made it just ours in a forest.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and we had 30 years of friendship at that point.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we really had a roots in Portland.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so it was just talk.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but we got up one morning on a weekend.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was a Sunday morning, if I remember right.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Elizabeth, you had recommended a book by Jerry Sitzer called a Grace Disguise.

[SPEAKER_02]: The Grace Disguise, I bought the 30 year anniversary edition.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I did what readers aren't supposed to do.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I went to the very, what was the addition he wanted to add?

[SPEAKER_02]: And Jerry Sister is this theologian New Testament, theologian teacher professor who experienced horrible crisis and wrote a book that is very intensely person's the best.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it is the book number one.

[SPEAKER_02]: book.

[SPEAKER_02]: I recommend on, on, especially in thing to do with the crisis, but on suffer.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just because he's the illogical framework combined with his story is so powerful.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's just this gentle man, so I'm reading and I start weeping just, you know, I'm a cryer.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, but I usually just [SPEAKER_02]: I just started weeping when he got to a part about that you're never over a crisis like this.

[SPEAKER_02]: You never get over to the other side of the mountain.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, that it's with you for the rest of your life and it reshapes your entire life and this might little girl.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, um, okay, well, link up the tears.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, no, weeping.

[SPEAKER_00]: I promise.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's fine.

[SPEAKER_02]: And just since you this is it, [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, at that point, we understood it was not gonna be okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that birdie would carry this, why just love and adored, she was but most connected infant I'd ever seen.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just insisted that you look at her and connect with her before she can even talk.

[SPEAKER_02]: And here she was now not, that's a part of her that really went away permanently.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so I had my grief.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was crying and started writing in my journal and just saw a picture of a time I'd gone on a hike with my dad in this year.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love to hike.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love to hike with my dad.

[SPEAKER_02]: So he would almost every time we went to visit would have one really planned.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we were hiking and it was hot and if it was sweaty, steep, we were going to the very ridge of like a caldera.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we stopped in the middle under some shade, big oak and pine trees, got some water.

[SPEAKER_02]: And how refreshing it was in the shade, and then we finished the hike.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I had this just picture, which I rarely see pictures like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Of, oh, that shade enabled us to go get to the top.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I felt the Holy Spirit just impressing on me.

[SPEAKER_02]: You cannot fix this, but you could offer some shade and just an invitation to what have we moved?

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm very emotional at this point, journaling it all and I walked into Phil's office and said, I'm too emotional about this, but I want you to read what I just wrote in my journal and I'm gonna trust you, is this a decision we need to make?

[SPEAKER_02]: and then fell.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, you did just say that.

[SPEAKER_02]: You said, I think we're supposed to move, but I'm very emotional.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: So she said, you said, you were your eyes were all red.

[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't mean that.

[SPEAKER_04]: You're so so sad.

[SPEAKER_02]: I agree, cry.

[SPEAKER_02]: I agree, cry.

[SPEAKER_04]: And you said, I think we're supposed to move to Ben, but I'm so emotional about it.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm giving it to you, you decide.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so, but out of my love and respect for you and we were already wrestling with the number of things we were even thinking about coming over more regularly or should we buy a little cottage and we thought we realized we can't afford it.

[SPEAKER_04]: But there was already a tug to help, so it wasn't like out of nowhere.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: But because of that, you know, I'm a practical person.

[SPEAKER_04]: I just jumped right on it, called a friend who got us into this little cottage and just seek advice, both on a personal level, because he knew our family and on a practical level.

[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, just as a as a brother and Christ and a godly man, he said, I think you need to move.

[SPEAKER_04]: emotional.

[SPEAKER_07]: The emotional is amazing.

[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, he was saying just for your family's sake, laying aside the finances, housing market, and all that, he said, you know, your family is more important.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then he's a real estate guy.

[SPEAKER_04]: So he flips out his own departments and stuff.

[SPEAKER_04]: So he said, and you just saw your house right now.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and then mama was about to burst.

[SPEAKER_03]: He goes to the market.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to back in two weeks, which it did call it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And he called it and he got into this house and he knew the area.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so we made a very quick decision, [SPEAKER_04]: We don't.

[SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes God really fast and sometimes he moves really slow for different reasons.

[SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes he's ready and we're not and he's working something in us.

[SPEAKER_04]: Other times we're ready, but he's not because he's working out some circumstances, but in this this is one of those fast ones.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then you guys know the story.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, within I think five or six days the house was [SPEAKER_04]: 40 people came.

[SPEAKER_04]: We had multiple offers.

[SPEAKER_04]: It sold in three days.

[SPEAKER_04]: All cash off or two week close.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: We were whisked with out of court before that.

[SPEAKER_08]: I remember that morning.

[SPEAKER_08]: It was a Sunday.

[SPEAKER_08]: And mom, you guys called after you talked and you asked us.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_08]: to be really honest about if that would be helpful and if that would work and if we wanted you guys to actually move yeah and you give us full freedom to be honest yeah and I love that that was your next move because you were totally willing but you also you had our best interest at the forefront of your minds and you guys were thinking through a lot of other things [SPEAKER_08]: and knowing you guys are getting older where you guys want to get settled.

[SPEAKER_08]: There was a lot to talk about, but I mean, it was an immediate yes from us, but yeah, we'll need to talk about what does that look like?

[SPEAKER_08]: What are the details?

[SPEAKER_08]: But I think that's really important to say too, because you weren't just driven by your feelings of, I want to make myself feel better by being helpful.

[SPEAKER_08]: You were driven by, I really want to do with the Spirit's leading, and I really do want to actually be helpful.

[SPEAKER_08]: So this needs to be a joint family conversation.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and not only, of course, you guys were first, but when you said yes, what I just thought of is we also sought counsel of our other three kids and there's bounces.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we wanted to know what Matthew and Simone's counsel would be.

[SPEAKER_04]: What's his your counsel to us?

[SPEAKER_04]: And then, of course, there are some other men in my life that I ask counsel from, you know, both who knew our ministry, who knew our family and who knew the situation.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I think a big decision like that in a crisis, it should be, it's has to be Holy Spirit led, but it also needs to be confirmed through those around you who know, and that's one of the, one of the scripture says, you know, we're supposed in abundance of counselors or victory.

[SPEAKER_04]: There is a time to seek and if you don't make plans prayerfully and carefully you can make a big mistake too.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I think behind all that was, you know, for all of us as followers of Jesus, who are we living for?

[SPEAKER_04]: We living for Jesus and living to start like the verse that you start off with, you know, carry one of those burdens and thus fulfill the law of Christ.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, what's the law of Christ?

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, there's a lot there, but it's, you know, Jesus has said, [SPEAKER_04]: You know, do one do others as you would have them do unto you and then Christ didn't live to please himself but to please others and one of the cross references to that verse is Romans 15 one.

[SPEAKER_04]: We who are strong.

[SPEAKER_04]: We were doing well.

[SPEAKER_04]: We weren't sick.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sir.

[SPEAKER_04]: Are you living for yourself, you know, carving out your perfect world or are you living for others, you know?

[SPEAKER_04]: And so in our case, our family is a gift from God.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yes, and the two other things I would add to that because the first time I've written down just echoes that one out of verse that Solomonians five, I've always loved this verse because it seems so visual to me, [SPEAKER_02]: and monitors the unruly, encouraged the faint hearted hope the week be patient with everyone and and that is just that's just a beautiful verse.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm really speaking of the whole family of God but also [SPEAKER_02]: we actually were available at that time because we weren't tied to a job in Portland.

[SPEAKER_02]: We were already happy.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're doing intentionally.

[SPEAKER_02]: Realize we could do it wherever we needed to.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's a factor you have to understand too.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's not even possible.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're financially possible.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you guys have been living in Southern California, we could not have just [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but I think let's I love that you said that because I want to highlight another way and obviously we try really hard on the podcast to share our failure stories more than our success stories and obviously we're highlighting.

[SPEAKER_08]: ways that you guys really showed up in a beautiful way.

[SPEAKER_08]: But but we're doing that on purpose because I do I think this has been a particular strength of yours and another way that you guys have ongoingly showed up.

[SPEAKER_08]: I mean this we've been at this almost 10 years now.

[SPEAKER_08]: So this was again not a short term thing but another way you guys have been incredibly present and anybody could do [SPEAKER_08]: is that you guys have beyond just wanting to kind of understand what's happening, you guys have become learners of what's happening because there's going to make me emotional.

[SPEAKER_08]: From a place of deep love for us and for birdie, you want to understand her because she's your granddaughter.

[SPEAKER_08]: And so you guys have gone out of your way, mom, you read every report from every doctor, you've sat in on appointments to try to understand, you've listened to me for hours, explaining what why certain things are functioning the way they are.

[SPEAKER_08]: You are the people I text in the middle of a several hour long meltdown, which happens all the time.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like you know what that actually, [SPEAKER_08]: It looks like, and I was just pretty just had a several hour long meltdown one of the worst ones she'd ever had could be just started backup school again, and it was about going to her co-op.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I was like a horrible night the night before, and I got her to school.

[SPEAKER_08]: She was able to go the next day, but I just felt like I was.

[SPEAKER_08]: dead.

[SPEAKER_08]: I just want you on the campus like hardly slept, just deeply grieving in my spirit.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I'm walking across this campus feeling so lonely.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like, you know, there's all these these silent things we carry because our family looks healthy on the outside.

[SPEAKER_08]: And so there's a lot that we carry that's just hidden and thinking about the loneliness of certain types of suffering as I'm walking across that campus, just like beaten down, but have to carry it.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I was thinking, but I don't carry it alone.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like you guys know that that happened the night before.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like we have people who actually understand that when I say she had a meltdown, it's not she had a minute of saying she didn't want to go to school.

[SPEAKER_08]: It's like hours and hours that greatly impacts the entire family that nobody sleeps that night that it's, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the ripple effects of how that impacts our marriage and the acts are.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_08]: And so I think you guys have shown up in the long haul of really that deep knowing.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I think of like, even that word in the scriptures, when it says that David in Psalm 139, when he says you know me, is the same word of Adam, Adam and even the garden when Adam knew his wife Eve, like it's a deep intimate knowing.

[SPEAKER_08]: And that's what God is to us, and I think that is this unique role that family has because we do deeply know each other because we've spent so many formative years together.

[SPEAKER_08]: But when as family we can step in and we can know what that crisis is like, even if it's not our lived experience, but to take the extra steps to learn, to read the reports, to really sit and feel the pain.

[SPEAKER_08]: It is much easier to not know because you don't have to feel as much pain.

[SPEAKER_08]: Um, too.

[SPEAKER_02]: or worry.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's the future.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I just so appreciate that about you guys because as she's gotten older, I have this kind of new pain.

[SPEAKER_08]: I carry as a mom of like, gosh, I want people to know her.

[SPEAKER_08]: She works so hard to mask the fact that she carries all of these things.

[SPEAKER_08]: She's hard to know.

[SPEAKER_08]: She's hard to know, she's just, yeah.

[SPEAKER_08]: But I love, I feel so loved.

[SPEAKER_08]: by how much you tried to unfold her.

[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, you were just saying, they were over your house last night, so we could go on a date.

[SPEAKER_08]: And you were just saying, Bernie was totally shut down when she got there.

[SPEAKER_08]: And you know her well enough to know, you don't want to overwhelm her with questions, because she'll shut down more, because she'll have anxiety over answering the questions.

[SPEAKER_08]: And you said you were praying, as you guys were walking to the park, like God helped me draw her out.

[SPEAKER_08]: And know how to draw her out.

[SPEAKER_08]: And then you were able to, because you know her, you knew what topics to talk about, to get her talking, [SPEAKER_02]: two topics we have in common.

[SPEAKER_02]: 11 forces and 11 reading.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what we talk about.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it does, it is kind of a key to unlock.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_08]: And for her, it's more than just unlocking her interest.

[SPEAKER_08]: She feels like [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, I'm not as different.

[SPEAKER_08]: We have these things in common.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think, well, maybe just to summarize some of the supporting family response, because we've talked about it, but just I think for people, if you're like looking for maybe just like, how do we cement this?

[SPEAKER_00]: Be present.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the first thing that we saw.

[SPEAKER_00]: You guys practiced empathy over giving us solutions.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was just there.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was huge.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think if you can first be present second, [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and third, what you just talked about, learn what you don't understand, you know, if it's a medical condition, if it's grief, if it's trauma like learning and not just saying, oh, well, that's probably not as impactful because, you know, you don't understand it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We write things off we don't understand and I think there's a lot of generational moments where that happens.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, we were at a speaking thing and a grandparent came up to me and he said something that I was so embarrassed for him that he even said, but it was along the lines of like, so yeah, could you help me use the right language to tell my son that his son is just over the top.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's basically a baby and he needs to toughen up.

[SPEAKER_00]: And no, I was like, oh, your question says so much about you sir, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sir, Navy commander.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was like, I was like immediately like, oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you're not going to like what I'm going to say, you know, and I was really awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, this is your problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but That was nice about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nonetheless, I think the point highlighting like we can get trapped into our ways of thinking and how we did it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Learning a new way is really hard, generationally things have changed, kids are not the same as they used to be.

[SPEAKER_00]: Every kid is different, trying to do the same parenting style for each kid does not vote well for each kid or that's what I think.

[SPEAKER_00]: Each era, a great way I said.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so just remembering that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I think, you know, the last thing you kind of said is remembering the ripple effect that crisis affects families.

[SPEAKER_00]: It affects you guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you guys are now living here in part or in a big way because of what happened.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it impacts your kids, it impacts your family.

[SPEAKER_00]: And to be mindful of that and not ignore that and I think it's a big part.

[SPEAKER_00]: So for the supporting family, I think you guys have done not only an amazing job, but you've been incredibly present to us.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's been, and we can give active feedback that it's actually been amazingly helpful and supportive in life giving in ways [SPEAKER_00]: and so yeah yeah one more thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah just just that beautiful that's lovely but in all honesty we made mistakes and one mistake I had made several times earlier when a different family member a standard family member went through a crisis is [SPEAKER_02]: And I like this term as much as I flinch when it's supplied to me, but when some of us can have a like a savior complex and I definitely see that in myself.

[SPEAKER_02]: I go in.

[SPEAKER_02]: I rush in.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to help partly because I want them to be pleased with me or because I want because of a savior complex.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that does not, in a crisis, that is very negative to do.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I think partly we learned from our mistakes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes when we did handle it well, and that that led to a worse mistake or a difficult relationship that is taken on us a year or two.

[SPEAKER_02]: overcome.

[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing is the other mistake we made and you can elaborate on this list bit because it was you who pointed out to me in a really gentle way, not even super direct, but I knew it was a true of me.

[SPEAKER_02]: When we try and tie especially in Christianity's, [SPEAKER_02]: We, in the name of being hopeful, and sometimes in the name of scripture, we want to type everything up with a ribbon above.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that was the way you said it to me.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Paul said something like this because he had this group of people in Thessalonica that were just really good at loving.

[SPEAKER_02]: really good.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he basically says to them, you guys are so great at loving.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even have any doubt about it, but then this term like that excels still more.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just get even better.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is like your homework, who you are.

[SPEAKER_02]: But then he went through a crisis, their whole team went through a crisis, multiple crises.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he writes to them this.

[SPEAKER_02]: For indeed, [SPEAKER_02]: When we were with you, we kept telling you in advance that we were going to suffer a fliction.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it was coming ahead.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so it came to pass as you know.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then he talks about because of that for this reason, when I couldn't stand it any longer, he sent somebody, he sent actually Timothy to go make sure that they, their faith was not being shaken by Paul's crisis.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that is the opposite of trying everything up with a bow because Paul is saying this is going to happen.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hard things happen, very it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so Elizabeth, maybe you could explain how you sort of explained to me about being careful about we add on these old tag lines.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, in order to make ourselves feel better.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's a tricky one.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, this is a tricky one because it's so pervasive and said by very well-meaning people who mean it, including me.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a problem of the unaware.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, because you don't think it's not always on purpose.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it comes out a place of unawareness more than a country where place of trying to hurt.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the unawareness does hurt.

[SPEAKER_00]: Give it back.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, of just when most of the statements revolve around, [SPEAKER_08]: things that we say that we don't even think through.

[SPEAKER_08]: God's God won't give you more than you can handle, which is actually not in the Bible.

[SPEAKER_08]: That's totally out of context of what that verse is saying.

[SPEAKER_08]: Or like we heard a lot and I still hear a lot.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like God knew that you guys were going to be her parents and that you guys can handle this.

[SPEAKER_08]: And that's not untrue.

[SPEAKER_08]: God did [SPEAKER_08]: with everything we need.

[SPEAKER_08]: But it's only half of the story.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I still have to go home at night.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I still have to manage that meltdown and get her to school the next day and do, you know, it's and.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I think it's more about what we leave out than about what we say.

[SPEAKER_08]: So when we only say the really positive hyper spiritual things that sound really good.

[SPEAKER_08]: that aren't untrue, but we don't also acknowledge the current reality and pain that somebody is living and sitting in.

[SPEAKER_08]: I'm thinking of my friend Corey, who was just diagnosed with a very aggressive form of breast cancer.

[SPEAKER_08]: She's had miracle upon miracle of catching it earlier, but should have grown way more and it didn't of really successful major surgery.

[SPEAKER_08]: She doesn't need the crazy kimono radiation that they were afraid she was going to need.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like beautiful, amazing things that have happened.

[SPEAKER_08]: And she will live in fear of the rest of her life of this cancer coming back.

[SPEAKER_08]: Hi, Hi, Reoccurrence rate.

[SPEAKER_08]: She has to take ongoing medication.

[SPEAKER_08]: She doesn't take medication for anything.

[SPEAKER_08]: Just take ongoing medication to try to keep it from coming back.

[SPEAKER_08]: So I would imagine she's probably hearing a lot of people praise God for the miracle.

[SPEAKER_08]: You kicked cancer like what a miracle that's true, but she will also also silently carry this deep fear and burdened she's three daughters.

[SPEAKER_08]: She will carry that forever.

[SPEAKER_08]: And so we're not doing her service by not acknowledging both.

[SPEAKER_08]: We're actually making her feel more lonely if we only acknowledge the fact that the surgery was successful.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I think of my own story of so many people have been praying for and are still praying for my healing.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I hear a lot about that.

[SPEAKER_08]: I believe God's going to heal you.

[SPEAKER_08]: I'm still praying, but I have to leave every one of those prayer times, every church service, every conversation, still in pain, still not able to sleep that night.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like it's still, it's for me, it is so much actually more helpful in healing when somebody acknowledges the pain because I feel so seen by that.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I don't actually need somebody to fix it, but I do have an ache for people to see me because we all do.

[SPEAKER_00]: We all do.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe just to give a script for that because if someone's like, I think because a lot of us are well meaning, we just don't have scripts for like, what does it even sound like to, because you just said, if for someone to acknowledge the pain, well, what does that mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: And what do you mean by that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think I can kind of guess, but I also think there's a handful of things that are not helpful again with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But one thing that's helpful is just saying, my goodness, you've been telling me about this pain.

[SPEAKER_00]: How are you doing?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you spent a high pain week?

[SPEAKER_00]: What's going on with that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: When it comes up, I want to pray for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: What parts of your situation can I pray for?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think it's just as simple as that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, acknowledge, oh my goodness.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, God, that it's not worse.

[SPEAKER_00]: but like ask the curious questions, be present.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's as far as the script goes.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you need that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And for the crisis situation that anyone's in, I think there's a couple of things that you have to have as a family walking through this.

[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things that is extremely just based upon your personality, but I think some people will hear this and go, yeah, it's easy.

[SPEAKER_00]: and some might go, that's really hard, and that's getting really good at asking for help.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think we have to realize, like, with you guys, we need help.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of the times where we wish we didn't need some of the help that we do, and it's ongoing, and it's helping so many ways.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think, and that leads to the honestly, the, really, the second part is developing a care team.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I feel like God, not even by us always asking, has provided the most amazing care team for us.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's both the doctors and all that deal with the physicality of it, but also the wonderful and you know who you are therapists and counselors and wise people that God's put in our life, both professionally and just practically, you know, Jerry Sitzer from his book.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's become a friend to all of us.

[SPEAKER_00]: And [SPEAKER_00]: I remember talking to him on the phone and he had said something that completely shocked me and kind of undid me a little bit as he does.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's just one of those guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I'll just say it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: I say so wise, but then also it's not afraid to just say, say reality and he just simply said, we'll brook, it would have been my, my suffering is not as hard as your suffering.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was, and now now he said to me, it's not good to compare suffering.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if we were, he's like, yours is harder.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, [SPEAKER_00]: Jerry, you lost your wife, you lost your mom, and you lost your four-year-old daughter all in the same car accident.

[SPEAKER_00]: You immediately became a widower and a father of three with kids with injuries, not only mental emotional physical.

[SPEAKER_00]: How could that be?

[SPEAKER_00]: How could you say that to me?

[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, like how could you say that to me?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I wasn't mad about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was just like, help me understand.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he just simply said, when someone passes, of course, it's so challenging and hard, but if you're alive and you're alive long enough, life continues.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you never forget that person and you never forget some of the pain, but there's a distance that happens and life changes and evolves and grows.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's and he was just basically, and this is for anyone listening that maybe has a more of a chronic situation with suffering.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was simply saying, when you have a chronic situation, you never know where it's going to go, and it's reminded to you each day that life is not what it ought to be fully.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a sting every day that doesn't just go away, kind of gets resurfaced.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm highlighting that to simply say, like you have to have a care team.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's so hard to know when those days are going to be really hard, when they're going to be really overwhelming frustrating sad, what you're going to need in the moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that has been probably one of our biggest gifts is the care team around us.

[SPEAKER_08]: want to go back to what you said it getting really good at asking for help.

[SPEAKER_08]: This is like a huge area of opportunity for growth for me.

[SPEAKER_08]: But I've gotten better at asking for help, but still really bad at it.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I think for those who maybe are bad at it, you also have to develop kind of a thick skin of like it's okay for people not to be able to help.

[SPEAKER_08]: And and that doesn't mean you need to [SPEAKER_08]: means you ask again, or you ask somebody else, and I think that's been a learning curve for me of like I bad at asking for help.

[SPEAKER_08]: I'm also really good at like holding resentment wishing people would offer help.

[SPEAKER_08]: It's terrible.

[SPEAKER_08]: It's a terrible combination, but I also know.

[SPEAKER_08]: It's human and it's what a lot of us struggle with of like we want people to step in and help, but we don't want to be a burden or for some, they don't want to be perceived as weak for me, it's I don't want to be a burden at both are a different form of pride, really.

[SPEAKER_08]: And so for me, it's been, it's still been a learning curve of like learning to ask for help not be resentful if somebody can't but but back to also connecting it to a care team of that's why you need a team of people because you do you guys can't help all the time and you need a certain kinds of helping and not good at other kinds of helping yeah.

[SPEAKER_08]: And that team needs to be diverse because you and you and it I think it takes a while to figure out in the long haul type of suffering what it is you actually need.

[SPEAKER_08]: There's not a ton right now and really has been for years that practically somebody can do for us it's a lot more like emotional you guys help probably the most with the practical of just like respite care.

[SPEAKER_08]: I feel like you guys are like a respite care now.

[SPEAKER_00]: We should throw a party for our care team.

[SPEAKER_08]: We shouldn't throw a party for our care team.

[SPEAKER_08]: Remember, he's first birthday.

[SPEAKER_08]: No, no.

[SPEAKER_08]: Her birthday party was kind of a party for her doctors and nurses.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I agree.

[SPEAKER_08]: Remember that was amazing.

[SPEAKER_08]: That was wonderful.

[SPEAKER_08]: But we're right.

[SPEAKER_08]: We should throw an appreciation for her.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is an accountability moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you hear this, please remind us.

[SPEAKER_02]: So could I just piggyback on that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Be specific.

[SPEAKER_02]: because like for me, I'll see somebody in a crisis or in need and I want to help, but I don't know how to help.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if somebody tells me something and I think, oh, I can do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I can do.

[SPEAKER_02]: then that gives me actually just, that does actually help.

[SPEAKER_02]: Even relieve my burden for them a little bit, knowing that I could just go and do this one small thing.

[SPEAKER_08]: Okay, but I want to say something else to that.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yes, and I think there are some, sometimes when the person who needs the help can clearly articulate what it is they need.

[SPEAKER_08]: Most of the time they can't, right?

[SPEAKER_08]: And I think the best way to approach it if you don't know how to help is surely some things have come to your mind of things, well maybe that would be helpful but you probably then tell yourself, but I don't know and I don't want to overstep and I don't want to be a burden.

[SPEAKER_08]: The most helpful thing you could do is think of two or three things that you could do and you know you could follow through on.

[SPEAKER_08]: And reach out and say, I'm thinking of one or all of these three things.

[SPEAKER_08]: Here's what I can do.

[SPEAKER_08]: Here's when I can do it.

[SPEAKER_08]: You tell me which of those or all of them is helpful.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_08]: And then they're only making one decision.

[SPEAKER_08]: They're not having to search this backlog of like, well, I don't know, if I ask them to help with that, then maybe they won't be available to help with this down the road.

[SPEAKER_08]: So I don't want to ask them.

[SPEAKER_08]: I don't want to use them.

[SPEAKER_08]: But if you can just say, here's the three ways I can show up.

[SPEAKER_08]: I can do all of them.

[SPEAKER_08]: I can do one of them.

[SPEAKER_08]: You tell me, this is when I'm available, that's so great.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's super helpful.

[SPEAKER_08]: That's so helpful.

[SPEAKER_08]: And then you're not having to guess.

[SPEAKER_08]: You're trusting that the person's going to be honest, that you offered the three things.

[SPEAKER_08]: But I don't know that I've ever taken anybody up on it when they have said, let me know if there's anything I can do for you.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_08]: We're offered me like kind of a vague.

[SPEAKER_08]: Well, maybe I could do this.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like the responsibility of me having to follow up and say, you mentioned that thing.

[SPEAKER_08]: Did you really mean it.

[SPEAKER_08]: Could you do it at this time?

[SPEAKER_08]: Could you I just won't do it.

[SPEAKER_08]: I won't reach out and ask that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's that's that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then also the helper.

[SPEAKER_02]: is also getting to do what they're actually can do, exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: And are good at, you know, lots of people bring meals.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's great.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just never want to bring a meal because I'm insecure about whether it will be something they like or if it's good enough or whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: Or, or also the other thing is to bring a team of people with you, say, these three of us, your friends, your family.

[SPEAKER_02]: are thinking maybe you need house cleaning help for the next six months.

[SPEAKER_02]: We'd love to pay for a house cleaner if you know somebody nearby who does that kind of things.

[SPEAKER_02]: Something like that offer really tangible.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And get other people doing it with you.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not too big of a burden.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I want to, you know, as we're, because we can talk about this literally all day, um, I think, you know, as that, what we're trying to hopefully do is just give some some tangible examples.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the last thing we just want to say if you're the family walking through crisis, I think you need to guard your energy as a, as a way that you said it, and I think that's really great, and guarding your energy doesn't mean that you [SPEAKER_00]: Don't do things, but you have to realize that when you're in a moment of crisis, you don't have everything for everybody all the time, and that means there's a lot of things you don't do, and there's a lot of things that you can't do, and I mean, I think it's almost like second nature, but I start to realize the moment I'm around other families that maybe don't have some of the same dynamics as us.

[SPEAKER_00]: Any time I am, I'm always reminded about how different our life actually is, it feels normal to you and me.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like, the amount of things we do don't do can't do.

[SPEAKER_00]: It just is amazing to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we also at the same time do a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: At the same time, like, I think it's important to say what is your family need getting super specific with your marriage dynamic with your particular need.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then basically, I mean, it's a lot of work.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's really a lot of work, but getting creative about.

[SPEAKER_00]: How do we actually do life together in a way that is hopefully close to us thriving as possible?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think whether you're in crisis, you know now or you come to crisis, our hope today is just to really give you some perspective and see how, you know, this is something that we all have to move through at one point or another and hopefully some healthy way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Closing thoughts, you had something.

[SPEAKER_08]: Well, I was just thinking of when you said, guard your energy and I was thinking of, I'm having to do that a lot right now.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I'm saying no, a lot to things because I think I'm more in touch with how much I have to give right now and where it needs to go.

[SPEAKER_08]: But I'm being more honest with people about it than I was in the past.

[SPEAKER_08]: I would normally be just very like, [SPEAKER_08]: I don't just, I don't want anybody to be mad at me or disappointed by me, so I would find, you know, some clear excuse of why I couldn't do that thing or but there's been a couple things recently where I've been asked to attend something and you've been out of town or there's just been.

[SPEAKER_08]: different reasons why I couldn't leave the kids, and I've just been honest about why we're in a season right now where we can't, it can vary rarely, leave birdie at home with the other kids, even though we have kids old enough to watch our kids.

[SPEAKER_05]: it's unpredictable.

[SPEAKER_08]: It's too unpredictable and it just does, it does not sit right with us right now.

[SPEAKER_08]: It's not fair to the other kids.

[SPEAKER_08]: And so I've just been honest about that while still covering birdie.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like, just here's where we're at.

[SPEAKER_08]: I'm not in the season where I can leave birdie alone.

[SPEAKER_08]: And so I can't come to your birthday party because I can't leave my kids alone.

[SPEAKER_08]: The only way I can do it is if it's a really good day and the TV's on the whole time.

[SPEAKER_08]: And so I have to choose when I'm going to use that time.

[SPEAKER_08]: All right.

[SPEAKER_08]: And I've just been struck by it's so much it goes so much better.

[SPEAKER_08]: I feel better.

[SPEAKER_08]: I feel more seen and I feel closer to the person I'm letting down when I'm just honest about why.

[SPEAKER_08]: And so I'm just like, I'm learning of like, to be just straight up about even the energy I'm having to guard right now.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like, this is where my health is at.

[SPEAKER_08]: I can't go on us ever on my walk as much as I would love to.

[SPEAKER_08]: But I can't walk with you tomorrow morning because I'm afraid I'm going to get a mile in and [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's going to, I'm not going to be able to walk the whole day.

[SPEAKER_08]: Like, but just being honest about it, which I know sounds so funny and like, well, yeah, duh.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, doesn't sound funny.

[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't sound funny.

[SPEAKER_00]: We, I mean, half of my therapy sessions are my counselor just reminding me that my life is as hard as it really, actually is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that.

[SPEAKER_00]: somebody grew grounding you or a situation like this grounding you in reality is about most importance because we deceive ourselves, not on purpose, but we try to make sense of something and even subconsciously we're trying to make sense of like the world and how this all works and so we try to justify or we'll say like this is normal and it's so helpful when somebody or a situation goes, no, no, it is actually that hard and it's okay and it's okay, it's a hard [SPEAKER_05]: I am.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, please, please, please.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I saw.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was actually thinking there's a great way to end it today.

[SPEAKER_00]: Please take us.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I just was thinking Elizabeth was just talking.

[SPEAKER_04]: She was saying, I realized that I have a burden to carry right now.

[SPEAKER_04]: And this is what I can and can do.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, Galatians six, which we started with, let's close with it.

[SPEAKER_04]: So we read verse two, carry one another's burdens or bear one of those burdens.

[SPEAKER_04]: But it's Diane that taught me this when she was teaching on this passage once that down inverse five it says each one shall bear his own load and there's two different words there one is for like a backpack though was for a rock so like we're supposed to help someone carry their backpack, but then we each have our own you know rocks to carry around so actually it was load was like a contention type of thing like a container ship a container ship.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like it's so big this is a big one is so big that they need help carrying it another one you can carry your own with Christ up right I have this correct Sort of I don't want to just study it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So the idea of the backpack is is like as coming along side side through different seasons saying let me carry this thing for you right now because I see you staggering under this container full of [SPEAKER_02]: burdened that you are signed to carry for the rest of my new habit.

[SPEAKER_02]: You have to carry this.

[SPEAKER_02]: So how can I take a little bit of off your shoulders?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think is what it really, what really is.

[SPEAKER_04]: Each one shall bear his own love.

[SPEAKER_02]: His own, though, that's basically that fact that birdie had a catch catastrophic illness that has interrupted the way her brain works.

[SPEAKER_02]: Therefore, interrupts the way she interprets the world and then responds to the world.

[SPEAKER_02]: So the point that is the back pack they will carry, I mean, the load container load the rest of lives, but we can come along say, let me just, how about if I just invite birdie over for the weekend?

[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a, see, have a little relief.

[SPEAKER_02]: Then that's carrying the burden.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_04]: So what I'm, what I'm pointing out here is that, you know, you start off saying we can offer some shade.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_04]: So we do have a responsibility to pray to help.

[SPEAKER_04]: But Brook and Elizabeth have to bear this flow.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so that's what I wanted to close with.

[SPEAKER_04]: Is that, you know, we're not Jesus.

[SPEAKER_04]: We can't come in and solve every problem.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then, you know, you made that one comment.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's not on the Bible.

[SPEAKER_04]: God never gives you more than you can handle.

[SPEAKER_04]: He does give us more than we can handle in our own strength.

[SPEAKER_04]: But then he's a very present help in time of trouble.

[SPEAKER_04]: So he comes alongside and helps.

[SPEAKER_04]: So he's helping you carry this load.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's 10 months.

[SPEAKER_04]: We can come along and help you as you carry this load.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so we have a part to play.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I think for all of us, since we're not living for ourselves, remember this was written to a church.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I just randomly, I finished reading through the New Testament, so now I'm reading randomly.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was randomly reading Colossians, but I just read through Colossians, which I don't read as often as Philippians.

[SPEAKER_04]: I love Philippians and Colossians.

[SPEAKER_04]: But Paul makes this comment in there in my flesh.

[SPEAKER_04]: I do my share.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so I feel like we had a part to play in an art case.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was a big move, but other times it might be bringing a meal.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I think if we're part of the family and we're part of the problem and we're part of the solution, we need to do our share.

[SPEAKER_04]: That was my one of the closest.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's in the lessons too.

[SPEAKER_04]: I do my share.

[SPEAKER_04]: I do my share.

[SPEAKER_00]: So when you experience trauma and crisis, take a second, whether you're the family that is giving support or the family that's going through the crisis, friends, family, all the mixtures above, be present to one another, God's giving you each other for a reason, so be present and bear one another's burdens.